Planetary Radio: Space Exploration, Astronomy and Science - Thunderbirds Director Jonathan Frakes of Star Trek Fame

Episode Date: July 26, 2004

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Thunderbirds to the rescue on Planetary Radio. Hi everyone and welcome. I'm Matt Kaplan and all I wanted to do as a kid was read Mad Magazine and fly Thunderbird 1. The closest I'm likely to get to the latter is our conversation today with the director of the new live-action Thunderbirds feature film. Jonathan Frakes is still known to many of us as Commander Will Riker of the Starship Enterprise, but he has had the helm of several movies now, including Star Trek First Contact. Our own number one, Bruce Betts, makes it so with another What's Up installment, including a new space trivia contest.

Let's get started with Emily. She explains why the Cassini spacecraft now circling Saturn may live long and prosper. I'll be right back with Jonathan Frakes. Hi, I'm Emily Lakdawalla with questions and answers. A listener asked, I've heard that the Cassini spacecraft is designed to last four years, but could last seven years. Which one is true? The Cassini spacecraft has a design lifetime of four years,

which means that's how long NASA's budget lasts, and that's how long the engineers are required to keep the spacecraft alive or else the mission could be called a failure. Like most engineered objects, if nothing bad happens, Cassini is expected to last well beyond this design lifetime. In order for that to happen, funds must be appropriated by NASA to continue running the spacecraft and paying the science team in an extended mission. Depending on several factors, but mostly on how well the navigators do at conserving fuel, Cassini should easily go into an extended mission of three or four years, and with some good luck she could go on for three times her design lifetime.

The extended mission could be exciting, because, having accomplished the mission's success goals, engineers and scientists are able to take greater risks with the spacecraft to achieve higher science returns. What other missions have lasted beyond their warranty? Stay tuned to Planetary Radio to find out. We won't be talking as much about real space science on this week's show, so here's a very brief review of what's happening around our solar system. For the first time, Cassini's cameras have resolved many of Saturn's other moons into little cratered worlds.

Along with the images of Titan captured earlier, five more of the ringed planet's satellites have now been snapped from vantage points more than a million kilometers or 600,000 miles away. That's too far to outperform the Voyager spacecraft close encounters in 1980 and 1981. Much better views will be coming later in Cassini's mission. Saturn has 31 known moons. Of these, Titan stands alone for its size and unusual atmosphere. More are sure to be discovered by Cassini. MESSENGER, the first mission to Mercury in 31 years, is almost ready for a first launch attempt on August 2nd,

according to mission manager Robert Farquhar of the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory. The spacecraft now sits on top of a Delta II launch vehicle at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. Messenger will make a circuitous seven-and-a-half-year voyage to Mercury. On arrival in March of 2011, it will slip into orbit and begin a year-long study of the planet that is closest to the sun. The spacecraft's suite of seven scientific instruments will return unprecedented data, including the first images of the entire planet. The Mars Exploration Rovers continue their bonus time exploration of the red planet.

It was just days ago that Spirit hit pay dirt, or rather pay stone, when it discovered an outcrop of rock similar to that found by its sister craft, Opportunity, months ago. Engineers at JPL continue their work to compensate for a faulty wheel on Spirit, while Opportunity's overactive heater circuit is still draining battery power. Nevertheless, the aging rovers are considered very healthy overall, Nevertheless, the aging rovers are considered very healthy overall, with lots of exploration ahead as the Martian winter nears. Applicants have till October 1st to apply for the latest round of Shoemaker NEO grants from the Planetary Society. The program provides support for astronomers looking for near-Earth objects, or NEOs,

the asteroids and comets that could pose a hazard to our planet. Grant sizes are typically $3,000 to $10,000. The Planetary Society welcomes applications from amateur and underfunded professional observers anywhere in the world. You can learn much more about these stories and many others by visiting the Planetary Society's website at planetary.org. Society's website at planetary.org. You may have seen those odd commercials for the Orbitz travel website, the ones with the marionettes. If you're my age, you probably knew immediately that they are a tribute to

Thunderbirds, the incredibly creative TV series that reached the United States in 1965. Its stars bounced around on strings as they and their amazing flying machines save the world each week. The British show may have been my first exposure to science fiction and to the possibility of a world where space stations and mighty rockets would make life better and safer. Well, the Thunderbirds have arrived almost intact in the 21st century. The new feature film has already opened in many parts of the world, with premieres that have kept its director very busy. He may have been Jean-Luc Picard's number one on the Starship Enterprise, but Jonathan

Frakes is now more accustomed to the director's chair, steering major feature films like Star Trek First Contact, Clock Stoppers, and now Thunderbirds. We talked a few days ago by cell phone under less than ideal conditions, as you're about to hear. Jonathan Frakes, thanks very much for joining us on Planetary Radio. The pleasure is all mine. I'm on a cell phone in a car on the way to the airport in Tokyo.

You just told us before we began the interview that you were there because your new film, Thunderbirds, premiered in Tokyo last night. It was quite an astounding event. They do go all out and there's a band called V6

that are voicing the Tracy boys in Thunderbirds and they performed at the premiere to hordes of screaming girls. It was quite an event. I'm not a bit surprised that this movie would go over well in Japan,

but I have to tell you, I went into a supermarket yesterday to pick up some milk, and there, just inside the door, was a display full of Thunderbirds-themed books, coloring books and novelizations and all kinds of stuff, obviously intended for young people, as I suppose is the movie. It's interesting. I don't know about you, but I was not aware of the Thunderbirds growing up. It was not on my radar.

You're kidding. I was in Pennsylvania. No, I had no idea until they sent me the DVD of the shows, which I watched religiously with my kids. Now I'm obviously a huge fan, but it was not part of my childhood. And it was huge in the UK, in Japan and Australia, and it's got a big global market.

I'm actually surprised to hear that. I was 11 years old when the original Thunderbirds from a brilliant guy, Jerry Anderson, appeared on television. I was glued to it. I mean, it was part of my introduction to science fiction

that led me, I'm sure, on a somewhat crooked route to Star Trek and other works. I think the similarity between the two shows is not lost. Both Gene Roddenberry and Gerry Anderson provided, I think, this wonderful entertainment, but also a very positive vision of the future that we've all come to embrace, I think, because of the chaos we're currently living in. Jonathan, if you would, I think you should give people a little bit of an idea of the story behind maybe both the original Thunderbirds and your new film for those folks out there who, like you, never saw the 60s version.

The legend of Thunderbirds is that this ex-astronaut, Jeff Tracy, lost his wife tragically in an avalanche. And he used his millions of dollars that he had garnered in real estate, moved with his five sons to a secret island in the South Pacific, and created an organization called International Rescue, which responds to disasters anywhere in the world, whenever they happen. And with his psychic brains, Hackenbecker, he built these incredible machines that are the Thunderbirds, and his son pilots them. And in the movie, it's a prequel to all of the TV shows, his youngest son aspires to

be a Thunderbird, and he's not one one yet, and has given an opportunity to prove himself and ultimately become a Thunderbird. As I have looked at the website and the trailer for the film, I have been astounded at how closely you've identified this new work with that work by Gerry Anderson in the 60s, with the great advantage that you had not only computer animation, but actors who didn't have strings attached. Exactly. I'm glad you said it.

You do have quite a cast in this. The inspiration, I think, for the show, I mean, the appeal of the show was not only the fact that it was this international rescue organization, kind of exciting concept, but the look of the ship, the primary colors, the action, the movement, the shape and sizes were all things that we wanted to embrace.

And the production designer, the wonderful John Beard, took these ships and sort of kicked them into the 21st century, this sort of retro-modern approach. But everything in the movie at least resembles the original show, including the rather absurd way of casting, where you have to find an actor who looks like a puppet. Ben Kingsley as an evil genius. Sir Ben is astounding in the film, and we are so blessed to have him.

We offered him the part obviously because he looked like the hood and he happens to be one of the world's greatest actors. He had just come

off from very emotionally draining work I guess in Sexy Beast and House of Sand and Fog and was looking to do something lighter

but I think even more significantly his two sons who he had watched Thunderbirds with when they were kids both encouraged him that he must play the hood.

So it worked out quite well for us. He's wild in the park. And you got Bill Paxton as the leader of the guys in the white hats. Bill Paxton, the quintessential American dad, is Jeff Tracy. And I think, again, wonderful casting. We offered him the part. He has the idea. Jeff Tracy, and I think, again, wonderful casting.

We offered him the part. He has the idea. We associate him as an astronaut because of Apollo 13, and he's been in such big blockbuster movies that it feels like the right kind of movie star to them. He's a, you know, Titanic and Aliens and Twister, that sort of thing. This isn't your first mega production with lots of CGI and models and so on. It's nice for me to get the chance to thank you for my favorite Star Trek movie, First Contact. Ah, and so on. It's nice for me to get the chance to thank you for my favorite Star Trek movie, First Contact.

Ah, and mine. It was absolutely terrific. You know, speaking as something of a Trekkie. Which was the bigger challenge, this new work, Thunderbirds, or a work like First Contact? The Star Trek movies had the advantage of having

a cast in place. Relationships were developed by virtue of having a cast in place. Relationships were developed by virtue of having 182 episodes together. A lot of the sets were sets that we were familiar in and I had shot in, both as an actor and as a director. So Thunderbird was obviously a new project, so it had to be designed and built and cast from the ground up. For the original Thunderbirds fans, and just before we take a break here, I want to mention that among the things that those fans will probably recognize, well, the Thunderbirds themselves, the island home, the secret island paradise built by the Tracys,

but even Lady Penelope's six-wheeled pink car. You actually built that. Fab One. 28-foot, six-wheeled pink limousine. It's quite a big, incredible bit of kit. Ford Motor Company got involved with us and helped in the build and design of it, but it's quite something to see in person. Actually, Lady Penelope is so fine.

Miles and Ron Cook, who plays Parker, arrived at the London premiere in Fab One. It runs. It doesn't fly, I don't think, but it does. It does. It flies. It turns from a car to a jet to a hydro. Well, we'll watch for that as one of the 05 models from Ford, I guess. Exactly. If you don't mind, we'll take a break for a moment here and then continue this conversation.

Happily, thank you. Jonathan Frakes is our guest. He is the director of Thunderbirds just released from Universal, appearing across the country. It opened on July 30th. We'll be back with him right after this message.

This is Buzz Aldrin. When I walked on the moon, I knew it was just the beginning of humankind's great adventure in the solar system. That's why I'm a member of the Planetary Society, the world's largest space interest group. The Planetary Society is helping to explore Mars. We're tracking near-Earth asteroids and comets. We sponsor the search for life on other worlds, and we're building the first-ever solar sail.

You can learn about these adventures and exciting new discoveries from space exploration in the Planetary Report. The Planetary Report is the Society's full-color magazine. It's just one of many member benefits. You can learn more by calling 1-877-PLANETS. That's toll-free 1-877-752-6387. And you can catch up on space exploration news and developments at our exciting and informative website, PlanetarySociety.org. The Planetary Society, exploring new worlds. Jonathan Frakes is our special guest on Planetary Radio. He directed Thunderbirds, now in theaters across the country.

Many of us know him best. From his work in front of the lens is Commander William T. Riker on Star Trek The Next Generation, both the TV series and several films. And we are speaking to him on his cell phone as he tries to make it through heavy traffic, I take it, in Tokyo, headed toward the airport. Is the traffic pretty bad? It seems endless. take it in Tokyo, headed toward the airport. Is the traffic pretty bad?

It seems endless. I wish we had a transporter room, actually. Oh, don't we all. Oh. That or a holodeck to pass the time. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit more about this movie and the fact that I think it is, while it may be very entertaining to fans

who remember the original Thunderbirds, it does seem that your target audience is a little bit younger than my set. I think that the audience, obviously, we hope for is cradle to grave, but the aspiration of young people to follow in the footsteps of our three heroes, who are about 14 or so in the film, I think is going to be our core audience. And these three kids end up taking on Sir Ben Kingsley and winning. So it's quite an adventure. Your old boss, Gene Roddenberry, always said his greatest joy, his reward, was the steady stream of engineers and scientists and astronauts

who would come up to him at NASA facilities, shake his hand and tell him that they were there because of Star Trek, because of what he accomplished in the mid-60s. It seems to me that you have a shot at emulating a bit of that with this work. That would be astounding. The movie Thunderbirds celebrates some of the same themes, I think, that Star Trek did. I mean, there's a very strong through line of heroism and altruism. And I think in the post-9-11 atmosphere that those subjects, those ethics, are really important and valuable.

And if kids get that without feeling like they're being lectured, if they can get it through entertainment, all the better. There's something here, too, isn't there, about the potential of science and technology put to good purpose to do a lot of good? Yeah, that's the other thing about Thunderbirds, is that it obviously comes from a marionette show that was done with little models of spaceships. But, in fact, it's a great opportunity to make a big action picture without violence. Yeah, supermarionation was what Jerry Anderson called it. Supermarionation, that's right.

I went down to see Jerry Anderson to thank him for the gift of Thunderbird. He told me that he had made the original show with Marionette as a selling tool with the hope that it would become a live action show. No kidding. But Marionette was so successful that he ended up making his career. So has he seen this feature production? I don't know. We just opened on the 23rd in London.

He wasn't involved in the production because, unfortunately, he had sold the rights in the 70s to Lou Braid or Polygram or someone, so Universal ended up with the rights. But the other creator, Sylvia Anderson, who was the original lady of Penelope, was with us at the premiere, and was very supportive of the film all the way through. I want to go back to your days

as part of the crew of the Enterprise, NCC-1701D and E. 1701D and C and E. Right, now you absolutely are assured that I'm a Trekkie, I guess. How did those times prepare you for these kinds of major feature directing jobs? I mean, you already mentioned in this conversation that you got your start as a director working with that great cast. Well, I thank Rick Berman always for the opportunity to direct those early episodes. And there's luck of the draw with episodic television.

I just happened to start with a brilliant episode where Data created his daughter called Offspring. Beautiful episode, yes. Yeah, it's a wonderful episode. But I think there's a certain comfort level with visual effects I've come to have, whether just by the nature of the beast. And Universal and working title Tim Devon, the producer of this film, wanted someone, obviously, who had a lot of visual effects experience. For better or for worse, that's certainly part of the phenomenon of Star Trek

and obviously of Thunderbirds. These ships are all computer generated. So you have to have the patience. And given the technology now, all you need is imagination and the ability to communicate, and those artists who work on the computer can do things that are just astounding. When I started, the Enterprise was still a model on a stick that you ran in front of black felt. The computer now is really only limited by your own imagination. I obviously can't do the work, but I can certainly recognize what works and what doesn't in terms of lighting and texturing and a sense of weight and movement. It's really astounding.

A lot of directors have talked about trying to strike this balance in a CGI and effects-heavy film between the effects and the performances that they want from their actors. I think you've always got to put the story first. I think it's a recipe for disaster. We've all seen movies where they're so effects-heavy, that's all you see. I mean, one of the advantages of making this movie with working title is that they are so story-driven, so the script needs to be in place, and then the visual effects support the story, which is certainly what we've tried with this one. And I think that was true of Star Trek as well, the good ones.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's interesting that some of my favorite Star Trek episodes were those with the fewest effects. We only have about a minute left, and speaking of Star Trek, legions of fans would not forgive us if we didn't ask if you can tell us what's in store. Is there another feature coming? The rumor I hear is that they're working on a feature that would be a Starfleet Academy,

sort of a prequel to all Star Treks. But that's a rumor I've been hearing for years. And I saw Rick Berman and Brent a couple weeks ago, and they told me that Data, Brent, not Data, but Brent is going to be on Enterprise. I'm sorry, I don't think I understand. Brent Spiner. Brent is going to guest on Enterprise as either Noonien Soong or one of those characters that he's played, but not as Data. So that should be exciting. Fascinating. Well, we'll definitely watch for that.

There's a break. There's a scoop I just gave you. Well, that's a great way for us to wrap up here. Well, I've got one more question. Do you still pick up the trombone now and then? Not as often as I should. But I still play loudly, badly and loudly. Well, it was nice to see you playing with some other guys on the holodeck a while back, and I hope you get another opportunity sometime soon.

Thank you. Anything else you want to wrap up with? Any final comments about this newest effort, Thunderbirds? I just wish that people would go and make sure they take a kid with them. Well, I can comply with that, and I want to thank you very much for joining us here on Planetary Radio, and we wish you a great success with this film and everything else that you'll be up to in the future,

and also with that traffic in Tokyo. I'm still in it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Take care. Jonathan Frakes has been our guest on Planetary Radio. He has wrapped Thunderbirds. We spoke to him via cell phone from a car in heavy Tokyo traffic, wishing he had a transporter. Bruce Betts will be here right after this return visit from Emily,

transporter or not. I'm Emily Lakdawalla, back with Q&A. Most successful NASA missions are extended as long as the spacecraft will last, but a few past missions stand out for their extended mission accomplishments. The Deep Space One spacecraft was intended primarily to test new propulsion technology during a one-year mission, but after her success she lasted two more years, during which she captured the most detailed pictures ever of the nucleus of a comet. Mars Global Surveyor has already lasted three years beyond her two-year primary mission,

during which she's been adding snapshots of NASA landers on the Martian surface to her huge portfolio of scientific images. The Viking 2 lander was only designed to survive for 90 days, but she lasted an amazing six years on Mars, providing photos of the change of the seasons over three Martian years. But the prize winners for long lives are the twin Voyager spacecraft. They were launched in 1977 on a four-year primary mission to Jupiter and Saturn. Voyager 2 was given 12 more years to visit Neptune and Uranus. And now, nearly 26 years later,

the twin spacecraft are still active, searching for the outer edge of the solar system. Got a question about the universe? Send it to us at planetaryradio at planetary.org. And now here on this edition of Planetary Radio, and so we are joined by Dr. Bruce Betts, the Director of Projects for the Planetary Society. Doctor, welcome back. Well, thank you, Matt. It's always exciting to be here. We don't usually mention that

you're a PhD, but we're going to do that for now because it lends you that air of what? Credibility that otherwise I don't have from my behavior. But you are. You're extremely credible because, you know, you're not just a clever, humorous radio person. You actually do know your stuff. You've worked for NASA and you've done all that kind of thing. I'm not just a clever, humorous radio person. You actually do know your stuff. You've worked for NASA, and you've done all that kind of thing. I'm not just a pretty face. Which is why I'm on radio. What is your field? Planetary science.

Good enough for me. All right. So here we are with What's Up. What's up, Bruce? Well, that allows me to be able to tell you that up in the night sky, you can see two planets. That's right. In the evening sky, look to the west after sunset. See very bright there, Jupiter looking like the brightest star-like object.

If only I had a PhD. Then you too would be able to comprehend these incredible ideas. In the pre-dawn sky, you can see Venus, extremely bright. Again, star-like looking object up there in the east. There are a couple, if you want more of a challenge, you can go out and hunt for Mercury after sunset to the lower right of Jupiter, but kind of tough in the twilight. And Saturn starting to make its way back up into the sky in the pre-dawn sky below Venus,

but still very tough to see at this point. Okay, let's move on to this week in space history. One of those great anniversaries that I enjoy. 1971 it was, Matt, July 31st when the first vehicle was driven on the moon. The Apollo 15. We had the... The buggy, the lunar buggy, the dune buggy. That was actually its official title was the lunar dune buggy. Are was actually its official title, was the lunar dune buggy. Are you serious?

No. Was it really? No. No, lunar roving vehicle. But it was very clever. It was really, and you could see the lunar sand being kicked up and falling straight back down because there was no air to hold the dust up in the air. The thing had fenders and everything.

It was great. It was sweet. It was. Totally. Yeah, I'm trying to turn my car into it so it looks just like it. I'm going to trick that car out. Sorry, I've been watching car shows on TV. Got to get those wire mesh tires, though.

They're hard to pick up. We're custom making them. All right, let's move on to Random Space Fact. The mass of Jupiter is greater than the mass of all the other planets in our solar system combined! Wow, I knew it was big, but I didn't know it was that big.

That puppy's big. Even Saturn, huh? Saturn is... Even Saturn. Saturn coming in at roughly a third of the mass of Jupiter. Gosh. Hey, how about we go on to our trivia contest? Let's do that. Would you like to explain? Yeah, I will explain because I know that there are some people out there who either didn't hear last week or have forgotten.

No winner this week, folks. There's a collective global size. You all lose. No, it's just that we're waiting another week because remember we said last week that planetary radio is now being carried by the Public Radio Satellite Service, operated by National Public Radio. And because some radio stations may be running the show, running Planetary Radio, too late for people to get their entry in, we're giving people more time.

We're giving them two weeks. So the winner, the next winner is going to be announced next week. But we do have a new contest. We do indeed. You can compete to win the incredible Planetary Radio t-shirt by answering the following question. What person has spent more time in space than any other human? What human has spent the most time in space? So remember, this can be over multiple missions.

Who has been in space the longest? And I'll give you a hint. Well, I don't know if it's a hint, but it's amazing. This person has spent more than two years in space, two years of his life. Wow. So go to planetary.org slash radio, find out how to enter our contest and compete for the prize of prizes. And you need to get that entry into us. Remember, you've got plenty of time. You can get it into us by noon on, we're going to call it Wednesday, Wednesday the 4th of August. Wednesday, August 4. Get your entry into us.

If you feel like it, include in there what size Planetary Radio t-shirt you'd like. Then again, if your correct answer is chosen as the winner, we'll get a hold of you. We'll find out what you need, and we'll send it right out. Because we know where you live. Bruce, I think we're all done. All right, Matt. Well, everybody, go out there. Look up in the night sky and think about big, giant planets with an attitude.

Ooh, you've got to stay out of their way, man. They can get mean. That's true. If you run into any, please, please do not go after them yourselves. Call a professional. Listen to him, folks. He's a planetary scientist. That's Bruce Betts. If you run into any, please, please do not go after them yourselves. Call a professional. Listen to him, folks. He's a planetary scientist. That's Bruce Betts. Thank you. Good night.

The director of projects for the Planetary Society, who joins us each week here on What's Up. Back to deep space next week as we check out the MESSENGER mission about to wing its way to Mercury. I hope you'll join us. Have a great week.