Plumbing the Death Star - Is Daredevil a Better Batman Than Batman? (Feat. Mr Sunday Movies)

Episode Date: April 20, 2015

In which our heroes move from Gotham to Hell's Kitchen, request the services of Nelson and Murdoch, consulting the Avocados at Law to get their opinion on whether Daredevil is a better Batman than Batman. We look at exactly how much of a hassle the Joker is, wonder how being a superhero lawyer works morally and the logistics of Batman's sleep cycle. Zammit is scared of the Demon Bat that lurks beneath Gotham, James explains how Daredevil has the perfect secret identity and Duscher just lies about watching Ghostbusters again. It's Batman v Daredevil as we put both to the test and work out once and for all just who is the better bat and who is the better man.Want to help keep Matt Murdoch away from homelessness? Head to http://www.patreon.com/sanspantsradio and for as little as $1 a month, we promise to keep a roof over his head.And don't forget to get your free audible book download and a 30 day free trial at http://www.audibletrial.com/SanspantsRadio there's probably at least 3 different books on fighting crime without killing criminals, so you too, can be a better Batman than Batman. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sans Pants Radio, over committing since 93. Today's episode is brought to you by Aaron Dunlap, Magico Martinez, Kevin Toner and Piers Morton. I hope you enjoyed the episode as much as I enjoy imagining that Magico Martinez is a Mexican wizard. Thank you! Hey everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of Plumbing the Death Star, where we ask the important questions like, Is Daredevil a better batman than batman daredevil has a clear goal i mean i'm just talking about the new netflix one because we all watch it right yes yeah of course all right great just like ghostbusters you saw it on the

weekend it was beautiful times um But he's got a good goal Well he does, and What are their goals? What's their end game? Daredevil wants to just, you know, find What is corrupting Hell's Kitchen Sure And he knows who, eventually he finds out who that is

Through some good detective slash beating up work Yeah, sure And he's got a clear goal, like clean up Hell's Kitchen from these corrupt individuals. Batman's like, I'm going to fight all crime. All of it. All of it. Every crime.

Every crime you can think of. As long as it's in Gotham. As long as it's in Gotham and it's not like embezzlement because then I would have to get myself. Yeah. Batman's strange because, yeah, justice against all crime, but I'm also a criminal. I feel like maybe Batman's job is harder because Daredevil, in the show in particular,

he has one kingpin. Batman's got, like, multiple mob bosses and the Joker and whoever. The Joker himself is a pretty big hassle. Yeah, that's like, get out of here. It's just, ugh. I don't know how much I want to put on Batman and how much I want to put on the demon bat living underneath Gotham because I think that's still the major problem that Gotham faces.

Is that still canon? Maybe. It's hard to know. You have to dig, don't you? Get under there. Batman. Have you ever seen Gotham construction? They just drill it and shit and like, is that a bit of a giant wing?

Keep digging, boys. Is this the movie Reign of Fire? Has anyone seen that? No one's seen that. It was on on the weekend. It's an underrated classic. I'm telling you. Christian Bale?

Yeah. Matthew McConaughey? Yeah, it's great. Fighting Dragons. Yeah. Just with Daredevil, I haven't actually seen netflix what i haven't seen sorry i've seen that on the most truthful podcast in the world while we're bringing this up did you actually watch ghostbusters no ah um no i didn't suspected i have seen it though okay but not when

we did that episode uh hey surprise so yeah with daredevil He's a lawyer, right? Yes So does that mean he fights crime at night Puts them in jail And then like he could be made to defend them? Yeah, but he generally doesn't defend the people that aren't good Like generally he'll be like Oh, this guy's lying and a criminal

So I'll just steer clear of that Or sometimes he'll do it to get more information out of them Or that he's got another agenda But yeah, he won't just get criminals off that he doesn't out of them or that he's got another agenda. But yeah, he won't just get criminals off that he doesn't believe in. That's why he's poor and blind. That's not why he's blind. That's a different thing.

See, Batman, he goes up against a guy, beats him, and then kind of almost like Spider-Man, just beats him and leaves him for the cops or whatever. Whereas Daredevil will find a guy, beat them and be like, I want you to confess to a crime or write a statement that'll pin, say, this guy. Yeah. Do that.

And so he's like, all right, I will. He's like, if you don't, I'll beat you again. I'm like, fair enough. I'll go to the cops right now, this very instance. I'll cop that on the chin.

Whereas Batman, I feel, he just, like, Batman is kind of like judge, jury, executioner, all wrapped up in one. Yeah. Whereas... Doesn't he just drop people off at Arkham Asylum?

A lot of the times, yeah. Then that's just beating up the mentally handicapped. Yeah, there's a lot of that. So... Come on, Batman. Lift your game. Yeah. Don't be doing that.

I feel like Daredevil has less distractions. Like, Batman will be out all night just doing whatever. Daredevil has that in the show anyway. He's got that one goal. Batman, he's spread himself too thin. When does Batman sleep? He gets like four hours or three hours a night. And he sleeps in a lot of board meetings.

I always figured he'd just curl up next to a gargoyle and just have a quick 20-minute nap. Oh, yeah, because he's like the whole Playboy Bruce Wayne persona, I guess. Like him being like, I'm going to have a nap. a nap yeah fuck you or he might have that like you know that weird cycle you can get like 20 minutes of sleep every three hours oh yeah yeah bullshit it's meant to be just the best but oh i know i did this is a legitimate thing um you tried that no i tried something similar where it's you break your sleep up heaps so it's like three hours you're awake for a bit then like three hours again it worked for a bit and then after like it works for one day for a month no because i went through a phase where i was only getting like maybe like three to four hours

of sleep a night and i don't know why i don't know what happened um just start doing a bunch of stuff and then just so in the morning after these three or four hours, could you feasibly get up, go to a job, put on a costume and fight crime? Well, that's the question. Yes. Because that's my job outside of this podcast, fight crime. That's why you didn't watch Ghostbusters. I was busy fighting those crimes.

It's also like I've got Daredevil queued on Netflix, but there was just a lot of crime going on. I understand that. Again, see you perched up near a gargoyle on top of it with an iPad. Watching Mad Men. Watching Mad Men. Because that's the real reason I haven't seen Daredevil. Mad Men came out on the same day and

God, the true rules. It's such a good show. But there's no comic books in that TV series, so not relevant right now. That's okay. Daredevil though. Yes, better Batman. Almost certainly, yes. You don't even need to dig that deep before you realise that yes, he is. He's doing a better job.

It is, but I don't know. I feel like that lawyer thing, though, is going to cause him problems in the future. It has. It has in the past in the comics. His identity's been revealed, and I think he's just out now completely. Everybody knows he's Daredevil. I thought they kind of went through another thing where he's like it went out it's like yeah matt murdoch is daredevil and then he like took them to court for yeah that

did happen but i think this current run i might be wrong because i'm behind yeah he's yeah he's just like i'm daredevil i'm a lawyer what's up and he's wearing like a red suit all right yeah why does he dress up as daredevil no No, no, like a red tuxedo. No, I mean like at night. Why does he dress as Daredevil? I don't know. I guess because people don't want to see a reader comic book and be like, oh, it's just a dude in a suit fighting people. Exactly.

You know the answer. I do know the answer. The current run of Daredevil ruled, but his iconic costume wasn't in it. So I hate it. And you know what, though? He's got also the perfect cover for being... A superhero.

A superhero, yeah. It is literally the best, unless you're like a shapeshifter, like Martian Manhunter or something, where you can be anybody. He's a blind guy. Yeah. Like, medically, like, you can test him. He's blind. So you're never going to...

Yeah, put a torch in his eye. He's like, oh, he's definitely blind. He's blind. So you'll never... Yeah. Oh, he's definitely blind. He's totally blind. You're never going to suspect him, ever. Because if you get your ass kicked by a blind... Like, by a dead animal, right? And you, like, go to a lawyer, say, you know, Nelson and Murdoch. You're like, some fucking superhero hero beat me up.

Yeah. Start chatting to a fucking Murdoch. And you're like, his voice sounds fairly similar, but he's blind. He's blind. So you got one of two choices. Either it didn't happen, or two, it was true, and I just got my ass handed to me by a blind guy. So I don't want to say that to anybody.

Exactly. That's just too embarrassing. That would work in the real world. Like, Bruce Wayne, he's clearly Batman. Yeah. He's the richest guy. He's, like, eight feet tall or whatever. He's, like, six foot two or whatever. But you can't hide that under a suit. Like. He's the richest guy. He's like eight feet tall or whatever. He's like six foot two or whatever.

But you can't hide that under a suit. Like the jawline, everything. Like he's the only one who could conceivably do this. Yeah. Even with the, you know, the gravelly voice. Yeah. I'm not Bruce Wayne. I'm not Bruce Wayne.

You know it. He's in. He's like, all right, well, who can afford this giant Tumblr thing? Who can afford this giant EMP bat sonar? Whatever the fuck he's got oh look at okay yeah bruce wayne paper trail a mile long what's what's this your company was developing this and then suddenly stopped it but if we look at the manufacture you're still manufacturing them exactly everything's online what was that thing in the dark knight rises

the water where they flood there's like a thing that they're building? It's a nuclear bomb energy resource thing. Why? Renewable energy. Let's go with that. Oh, yeah, that's right. Because I just remember the scene of... I don't remember that movie.

Morgan Freeman slowly climbing a ladder. Yes, I remember him pressing a button and there was like water and I was like, what were they developing there? No, I remember. I don't know. But even in that movie, Joseph Gordon-Levitt's like, you came to my orphanage once and your eyes were sad. You're Batman.

Like, it's that easy. You can just be like, you're sad. Batman. I don't know. In my theory, that's less on Batman and more on the magic of orphans. Okay. There's no thing. Yeah, you're right.

That orphan connection. Yeah. A lot of Robins have figured it out, haven't they? Yeah. Before they've beaten to death. It's a lot of us. Or dying off camera. Yes.

Was it for an example to not make young kids become sidekicks so I'm not going to cure this Robin? That's on you, Doctor. Piece of shit. What happened? kick so i'm not gonna cure this robin that's on you doctor piece of shit what happened i feel i feel like as well daredevil does more with less oh yeah absolutely he's got nothing like he's got an apartment yeah also like the help that he gets he's happy to have it yes he is night nurse um you know he's like yeah look okay i've been. Help me out. Stitch me up kind of stuff. Reluctant at first, yes.

But then he's got gross to accept it. Whereas Batman, you know, Joker's bombing up everything. Yeah. And he's like, I don't need my family. Help. Robin. Nywing. Red.

Stay away. I got this. And, like, he's got pneumonia. He's coughing up a lung. Yeah. He's being like, stay back. And then he's the worst. Yeah.

He needs them. He does. And sometimes he realises that and then he'll go back on it like immediately yeah but he'll be very angry about it he won't be happy that he'll get them he's like yeah i guess robin i needed you can you help me out with this one time yeah begrudgingly yeah come on but don't you ever bring this up again yeah that's it whereas daredevil was like yeah right all right look and then like you spoiler foggy is like yay i found out you're daredevil yeah you son of a bit no he's not like you know begrudgingly he's like yeah look whatever yeah i'm sorry i lied to you all these times but hey i did this to you know protect my

yeah exactly came out with current events i think The Flash had exactly the same storyline in it recently where, like, there was one person who didn't know Flash was Barry and they revealed that recently and everyone was like, but it was so obvious. Anyway, that's completely irrelevant. I think a lot of people know that now. I'm trying to think in that show. You tell someone every week.

I don't even know who you're specifically referring to. Run fast, guys. Stop. I don't know. I'm Barry Allen. I run fast. I run fast. That's what you know. I don't know, because I don't want... I'm Barry Allen. I run fast. I run fast. That's what you know. I don't know you. Barry Allen. You're my one for the week.

Goodbye. People call him Barry when he's fighting criminals. Yeah, you're right. Whenever Batman over the comm is like, Master Bruce or whatever, don't call him that. Anybody can listen to that. I know it's encrypted and whatever, but if you can encrypt stuff, other can encrypt stuff i mean like your bad guy's the

fucking joker yeah he's gonna he's gonna sort something out yeah i feel like the joker knows oh yeah like he knows where the cave is like he knows like underneath yeah exactly directly underneath yeah even anyone with any sort of like satellite imaging of like you know how they pick up x-men x-men are you gonna talk about x-men no i was gonna talk about weeds so what okay oh the show yeah okay like apparently like they they do the the satellite thing and they can see where grow houses are oh okay and so like a satellite image over wayne manor is just gonna be just all this bullshit activity. Plus, he's, like, electricity bill is going to be sky high.

Yeah, yeah. Plus, the Bat credit card needs an address link to it. Yeah. So, Batman. Everyone's going to be like, yeah, he's the best. Batman cops so many, like, he actually gets hurt, though. Like, it's not like he's just, like, not like a Superman sort of thing where, like, Clark Kent can go to work and he won't be bruised because he's Superman yeah Bruce Wayne is gonna rock up to work somebody who's like black eyes and shit like I went like spelunking yeah fuck off yeah you're right yeah and but with the best thing

with Daredevil if he rocks up with a black eye he can legitimately say I fell down some stairs yeah absolutely I'm blind yeah and everyone's like oh my god this is so sad yeah and then everyone's like oh my god hey let me care for you let me get you a drink the best cover i know it's just like suckers look the point is we hate batman is that what we're talking about i love that i love a big fan but yeah i don't know there's it's batman's too convoluted that you can poke a lot of holes in it dead evil is also convoluted but less so i feel lot of holes in it. Daredevil is also convoluted, but less so, I feel. So it's harder to kind of make fun of it. Didn't you say that Twilight was once airtight?

I don't know if that's something. Yeah, no, I don't know if I've been on record saying that, but we've got a lot of requests to play Twilight. I refuse to do it because that universe is airtight. It's dumb, but it all makes sense. We're not happy about it. I'm a little bit happy about it. But it makes sense, unfortunately.

So with Batman, you kind of go, all right, so what makes a Batman a Batman? Like, strip away Bruce Wayne, strip away everything. What is quintessential a Batman? First thing that Batman needs to have is like a thirst for vengeance. Thirst for vengeance. Oh, that's day one stuff. Does Daredevil, Matt Murdock have a thirst for vengeance?

Well, he's kind of, he doesn't have a personal agenda in the same way that Batman has. Like, he's personal... Oh, no, they both lost parents. I feel like Daredevil kind of adjusted better. Right now. Yeah. That was a weird thing about Batman, though. Like, he loses his parents and then he swears vengeance, like, 15 years later.

Like, he goes to train and stuff, but, like... I don't know. Like he goes to train and stuff But like I don't know It's a weird thing that he swears vengeance on Again like he declares war on crime Yeah No one will ever

This will never happen to anybody again It's like you've already failed There's been a guy shot Make the alley over Like This is Gotham Like come on Three steps up

In crime alley Stop calling it crime alley You're attracting criminals also batman you've thrown people off building you have been responsible for this also yes like ah you don't kill anyone just because you don't see the body doesn't mean they're not dead you can't blow up a building and be like everyone's fine yeah joker escaping is on you all right it's on you But yeah, with Matt Murdock, I mean, his dad gets shot because of corruption. So he has that sort of thirst for vengeance

in a more sort of generic, general way, similar to Batman. But he goes against, you know, after corruption of the city and that kind of stuff. Whereas Batman goes insane and is like, crime. Everyday. Everyday crime.

Not embezzlement though. I get to pass. Unless it's not me, then I'll get you. But if it is me, it's fine. But if I see Lex Luthor doing that, but not in Metropolis, if Lex Luthor comes to Gotham, opens up a business,

and starts embezzling, I may or may not be on that. Unless it benefits me, and then I do my own investigation and realize that Wayne Corp maybe sponsored him. He does do that a lot. Then, then I gotta have a serious, hard think

about what I've done. But unless it's me, I'm going after him. Maybe. I need 20 minutes of sleep. I'm just gonna curl up to this gargoyle surprisingly comfy does

Wayne Corp ever go into business with whatever the penguins nightclub is the ice something ice lounge

iceberg lounge Jackson's not here I don't know why I'm talking about the penguin someone has to bring it no I feel like

I feel like surely Wayne Corp has just done illegal stuff that Batman is just like, oh, I'm not into that, but I'll pretend I am because that'll ruin my whole Bruce Wayne persona. Maybe, but I feel that Wayne Corp,

I don't know, it might be legally okay, but morally not. Whereas, you know, at least Matt Murdock's, Nelson and Murdock, the law firm, is like, no, we're going to do some good crime. No, no, no.

He defends a dude who was clearly, clearly doing. In the show. Yeah, he did. Was that to get some information? It was to get some information. They also did it for the cash, though. Because weren't they also like, we've got to do something for money every now and then?

Yeah. Yeah. All right. So there. Okay. All right, so there. Okay, Murdoch, you do kind of... I can understand that. But then I guess if he's getting... This is a weird thing to do, but I guess he could just get people off

and then that night go out as Daredevil and just beat the shit out of them. Which he does do. He has done that, yeah. Classic Daredevil. This guy goes into a bowling alley, kills a dude who is... Admittedly, I think he's a bad guy anyway. And then he goes to trial. Murder is still wrong. Unless you don't see the body, the Batman way.

Close my eyes, it's fine. And then, yeah, he sort of takes on the case, simply to get information about who hired him to kill that dude. But he gets him off on murder but then he goes from that night and beats him up. Daredevil does kill on murder, but then he goes from that night and beats him up. Daredevil does kill people occasionally,

doesn't he? No, he doesn't. He'll put them in a coma, but he won't kill them. You know what I'm thinking of? In the Ben Affleck movie, he throws a guy on a train track, cuts him in half.

Oh, does it? I guess, yeah. Oh, wow. That is brutal. Wait, I've seen that movie. I actually have seen that one. It's at the start. A guy gets off for murder or something, or rape or something, I don't know. Something awful. Wait, I've seen that movie. I actually have seen that one. It's at the start. A guy gets off for murder or something or rape or something. I don't know.

Something awful. Yeah, something awful. And then he goes out and he beats him up in a pool hall and he chases him down into a subway tunnel and he throws him onto the train tracks. And he's like, that's not heaven that light. That's a train and whatever. And the guy's like, oh no.

Cut in half. That's exactly how that scene plays out. Wow. That's more of a Batman move than a Daredevil move, I feel. That's a classic Batman, I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you kind of move.

Actually, yeah. That is Batman's go-to. He's like, I didn't kill you. You killed you, but I didn't save you. Yeah, see, like, I'm going to start this house fire. I'm going to put you in a chair and tie you to that chair. And now I'm not going kill you, I'm just not gonna save you from dying. A Batman. That's the Batman way.

Alright, so vengeance is step one to be a Batman. Step two, I guess, is the no killing rule. The no, air quotations, killing, and quotations rule. So in the new series because this is what we're really basing this daredevil off in the new series he's definitely got a no kill rule. Like he will beat people to a pulp he puts someone in a coma, he throws them off a building. Yeah he didn't know that that guy wasn't going to die. I'm pretty sure he did

because he was like he landed a dumpster I don't know why he tried to do a dumb Yeah he didn't do a dumb voice, he got a better voice as well. Yeah it's like a deeper, but not quite. It's still you, Murdoch. But he throws him in a dumpster and he's like, he'll live. Not great, but he'll live.

So Russians will eventually kill him, but that's again, not on Daredevil. So I think no killing rule. I think Batman bends that rule a bit for his own. And I think not saving you is... That's killing, essentially. Still killing.

Whereas Daredevil... That's like not feeding your kids. I mean, like, I didn't... I didn't kill them. I mean, I just withheld food for a couple of weeks. Neglect that results in death is still killing someone, I think. Yeah, that's a fair point. So Batman slash Affleck Devil. Yes, that was on you.

But new Matt Murdock? Nah, Charlie Cox. My boy. He doesn't kill anyone. He's very conflicted. He goes to kill Kingpin, and he's very, very upset about this. Yeah, he should have killed him, though. Probably should have.

I mean, surely in season two, that's going to come back. It's going to come back and bite him pretty hard. Would you say the third thing is some kind of martial arts? Ninjas. Ninjas? Yes. I think that makes Batman. Batman is ninjas.

Yep, yep. I feel like Batman's probably better at martial arts. Daredevil's blind, though, so it's... Daredevil is blinder. That is certainly true. I can't argue with that. Daredevil had stick to train him. Who did Batman...

Batman had a lot of people. Batman had, like, multiple people. The League of Shadows. Yeah. Yeah. And plus other people. Walking through the Himalayas, I guess, would train you a bit. Yeah, that's...

It was the Himalayas, right? It's good for your core. Yeah. Build stamina. Build stamina. Mountains. Build up your tracking. You'd be able to detective your way to find a flower.

That's pretty good. That's pretty bloody good. How did he become the world's greatest detective? By finding flowers in the Himalayan mountains. Pressing them in a book. How did this? How did he become the world's greatest?

I think it's more of a title he gives himself. What a dick. Commissioner Gordon's like, I actually solve crimes. You just punch people. Yeah, there's no... I think I'm a pretty great detective.

Record taking of people like judges and being like, you know, who did the most crime? Who is the best detective? Batman says, it's me, it's me. Well, well actually that can bring us to point number four like who's a better detective who is a better being a good detective is part of batman the movie batman the dark knight is not a good detective he's good at putting things in a computer and then the things that don't exist and are impossible like that bullet in the wall yeah i don't want

to get into it it doesn't make sense nah get into it. It doesn't make sense. Nah, because it had a fingerprint. Doesn't make sense. It had a fingerprint. Bullets. The casing would never... I'm not going to get into it. I did a video on it once. The Joker would have grabbed the bullet from the casing.

Yeah. Because he knew Batman had the technology. But then he would have had to put it back in the casing without smudging it, shoot it into the wall without the print coming off where it shatters, and then he fires sonar into the bullet, which means the sonar would have picked up the bullet fragments and

the print that was still on each individual fragment. Yes. Science. Batman is very good at it. My podcast co-host Mason makes this point. That's not being a good detective. Anybody could do that. Yeah, that's just plugging in a bit of a code.

Alfred is shown using the computer as well, and Alfred's usually also getting the same results. Yeah, that's it. And he's like an 85-year-old man. So, hey, Batman, not that impressive. Also... Comic Batman's better, though, isn't he? Comic Batman.

Because he can smell stuff and be like, that's bloody tricephaline socks to fly. Exactly. Poison ivies to blame wow batman that was really impressive i know i feel um like with with all of gotham's villains when batman in the second movie nolan batman he has detective work where he's like tries to get information the people in gotham tend to squeal a lot easier and quicker. Okay, sure, yeah. Than Daredevil's villains, mob bosses. Yeah.

Because he just drops Bobby Elvis, the fat dude from Sons of Anarchy, off a building a couple of times. And he's like, yeah, it was this dude. Yeah, he doesn't even hurt him really. No, really. Just like by the leg. Yeah. Whereas Daredevil has to beat up a lot of people just to get a name.

Yeah, yeah. Of a guy who actually employed him. Well, there's a question. That's not even Kingpin. Who's the, who can take a beating more? I guess that comes under fighting as well. I'd go with Murdoch. Yeah, I'd agree with that.

Because he's got his dad's kind of. Yeah, that boxer mentality. Resistance for being punched. And Batman's all like, my knee, I have no cartilage. But now, I don't know, I've got this thing, so I guess I do. How great is this? Magic kick. Although Batman has his spine broken and is fixed by holding onto a rope.

That's pretty impressive. That's pretty good, actually. Don't talk down the magical healing properties of chiropractor, all right? A magical chiropractic rope. It's very good. I wish I had one myself. Does that mean his spine was just not aligned? Yes. That's a pretty easy fix.

I guess if he wasn't in jail, he probably could have fixed it. That's a weird jail also. This is completely unrelated. Oh, I know. Just like, hey, here's a jail. If you can climb out of it, good, you're free. Yeah. I guess you want it bad enough.

It's like the secret of jails. Yeah. If you want it bad enough, freedom is yours. And also another shit thing Batman does, he doesn't know these people in that pit, right? No. He just tosses down a rope. You're right.

He should have done it. And frees them all. Well, it's not even Gotham, so it's not even like if he's like, well, if I've made a mistake, I'll be fighting them. Yeah. Not my problem.

Not in Gotham. Where is that hole? I don't know. Himalayas? Middle East? Looks kind of dry. A desert, of course. Could have been Australia.

Could have been. Oh, no. Piece of shit, Batman. Our country that was formed on convicts is getting even more convicts now. I guess they were always here, they were just in a hole. Yeah.

Yeah. And that was how Australia was formed in the DC universe. I forgot. Good. I forget which number we're up to, but I'll just say five. That sounds about right.

Most resembling a bat. Most resembling a bat. Costume or not Well like the title Batman is I guess part of being Batman He has the most bat like name Also he named himself Batman

Which I think is a dick move Whereas Daredevil didn't really name himself What Daredevil didn't name himself? No he was the devil of Hell's Kitchen Yeah he was But then depending on the version of batman as well he didn't necessarily name himself in the first one he's like i'll become batman and he's sitting in a robe you know bloody bat flies to the window or whatever like ah batman that's quite scary that spooked me good alfred's i've got an idea about The thing about Batman is who is the scariest.

Because Batman is all about fear, and Daredevil is a man without fear. So he says. So he says. Back to what the fifth... Daredevil's blind and uses sonar sometimes, and that's pretty bat-like. That's pretty bat-like. That's more bat-like than Batman. Batman has sonar equipment. But he can see.

And he hangs upside down. But bats can see. And Batman has been a vampire. Bats do have eyes. We've been through this before. Fisher. Yeah. And Batman has been a vampire. Bats do have eyes. We've been through this before. Fisher? Think of a bat. Yeah, Batman has been a vampire. I feel like that counts.

Daredevil probably hasn't been a vampire to my knowledge. He probably has. I don't know. I almost want to say he has. Oh, he's Marvel, so he's probably been a zombie. Yeah, he's definitely been a zombie. I'm sure there's been an iteration of Daredevil. A blind zombie. That's a rough time.

Oh, man, that feels more sorry for me. He would have been a shit zombie. That's not scary. That's like fucking... He'd be walking around laughing. Are you a zombie? He's like, hmm? Yeah, because the whole Daredevil thing moves super fast and stuff.

If you just slow him down, that's not good. That's not good. Zombie Daredevil, you're in for a bad time, mate. I feel like Batman might be the better bat. Yeah. And he does hang upside down a lot. Yeah. There's actually a scene that they deleted from the Batman 89 movie

where this girlfriend wakes up and he's hanging upside down in the corner of a room. I don't know why. I can see why they deleted it. He doesn't have bat DNA. Good job, Bert. You idiot. Wait, so Michael Keith,

like as in Bruce Wayne, is just hanging? Yes. Why? Head space. I don't know. To get in the zone, man. I don't know.

He needs the blood to rush through his head so it starts thinking so he can detective better. Do you know where in the movie that happens? I think it's after they sleep together. Oh, okay. And Alfred's like,

do you want to know who Batman is? Here, follow me. There he is. He's sitting at the computer. What a dickhead. That's a shit butler. He is. He really is.

Okay, so I guess we can say Batman resembles a bat somewhat more than yeah all right i hate to say it because he does have the sonar thing you're right i'm happy to call it a tie or even daredevil wins i don't care yeah this isn't my podcast whatever batman daredevil who cares it's all the same uh fear fear-based stuff i feel like Daredevil's I'm trying to think at night If I was committing crimes who I'd be more scared to see I think Batman just because I'm

Fairly sure that I'm probably going to die Because he'll accidentally kill you Oh accidentally kill me But Daredevil has a reputation For potentially killing people Yes Deaths happen they put on Daredevil, and that sort of builds up his mystique.

That's true, actually, yeah. Plus, Batman is this guy in a cape, and I don't know if I can take anyone in a cape serious. Even if they're knocking your teeth out. He's knocking my teeth out. Ha, ha, ha! Teeth are flying everywhere. What is this?

It is his teeth, you idiot! Oh, my God, look at your stupid cape. Oh, my God. Ha, ha, ha. Yeah, like, I mean, like, he can still laugh without teeth, too, so jokes on Batman. Idiot. The Joker must get his teeth put back in a lot.

I would feel by now he would have dentures. I feel like I've read at least, like, 18 comic books where Joker's teeth are knocked out by Batman. Yeah. Yeah, dentures. Or, like, knowing Joker, those, like, wind-up... Ah, the yappy up yappy yappy he'd have them

he would wouldn't he and then they'd like take them out and there'd be a bomb or like full of gas or something yeah I like it

he's no good he's bad news mate stay away from him um who's scarier was that the question yeah I feel like

Batman's probably got this one yeah Batman's also armoured he's oh no Daredevil also armors his fists, but Batman's got Kevlar in his knuckles. I think Daredevil does as well, though. Does Daredevil's suit armor?

If I punch Daredevil, is it going to feel like punching a man? In the comics, not really. There's that one where it's sort of... Is there a scene of him making a suit in the Netflix series? No, he gets given it. By who? By a wizard. No, a master guy. Just like a costume maker guy. They it. Like a wizard. No, I meant a guy.

Just like a costume maker guy. They're really excited for it. Wait, a costume maker? He makes kingpins, Kevlar kind of suits. They look like regular suits, but it's like you can't get a knife through it. Oh, okay.

Relatively bulletproof, I guess. Yeah. I don't know. Like 80% bulletproof, something like that. And so he commissions. I wish there was a scene where it's like 80% isn't 100% and then just shot him through it and it worked.

That would be sick. Very sick. If it was Fast and the Furious, that would 100% be a lie. Absolutely. Yeah. The thing about the streets is street fights. The street always wins. I know, right?

What a lie. I've been saying that for years. Nobody listened until Vin Diesel said it. It's just not fair. I know, right? So I think, yeah, Batman is a bit more fearful plus the pointed ears.

Yeah. He's more of a myth as well, I feel. Because people like don't even think he's real. And imagine if you don't think he's real and then you see him bearing down on you.

That's horrifying. The devil of Hell's Kitchen. There's footage of him fighting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's definitely more mystical. Yeah, that's true. What else makes Batman Batman? Money?

Money. Being a dick. Unfortunately, Batman wins out on that. Batman, yeah. I mean, I don't have a calculator on me. Embezzlement? I'm going to put forward that is what makes... That's a quintessential Batman move.

That's a Bruce Wayne. Okay, Bruce Wayne. Batman move. Oh, I guess like being morally good I feel like Deadpool's got that one in the bag Because Batman All gets whole high and mighty But when it comes down to it Kind of a piece of shit

Batman even admitted recently I think that deep down He's not a good person Like he's built this moral compass and this set of rules To stop him killing everyone all the time so is batman like the sociopath yes that spends so much time pretending he's dexter to be good yes but without you know giving into his depending on i mean he probably is a good person i guess because it's not it's what you do that defines you is that the line yeah i don't know i was gonna do in the voice but I'm not good at it.

Daredevil's just got Catholic guilt. Yeah, he does. So they've both got a kind of moral compass. But like one that's forced on them. It's like, yeah. Yeah. There's this guy who does a lot of study on sociopathy or psychopathy. Either one.

Yeah. And he's doing some brain scans. I think he realized he himself was a sociopath. What? That would be, you're just like, oh no i think it's like a radio lab podcast yeah and i think like he has to do things to remind him like just like he'll make sure that he saves pouring coffee or something for his kids or his kids his wife he'll pour the coffee for her first like he'll consciously have to do that yeah wow sort of stuff like that so it appears that he's being nice and thoughtful and that kind of stuff.

Now I am so stressed that like... Hey, buddy. Oh, no, I know you are. I'm not even worried about that. But just like, do I do that? I don't think so. You brought us water. Yeah.

Unless you were consciously like, hmm, I could kill them or I could bring them bottles of water. So before the episode, I bought all of us a bottle of water. But I mean, like, I remember, I should get James one too, even though Zavitz is the only one who asked me. But I don't know. But isn't that how everyone does nice things? Like you think about it and then you do it? You look really stressed.

But I think if you were a sociopath, you wouldn't be stressed. Although a sociopath's biggest fear is being discovered. I would know. So I biggest fear is being discovered. I would know. So I think Batman is like that. He's that sociopath that's doing all these things to try and, yeah, he's got this idea of what good is. And so he kind of has to go through that. So Batman is more of a sociopath, whereas I think...

Daredevil's genuinely a pretty nice guy. A nice guy. Well, the fact that he's a lawyer and he... I feel like if you're a sociopath and you're a lawyer, you're not going to care. Yeah. You're like, criminals, whatever. It's all about the dollars for me.

Where he's poor. The Benjamins, which is probably a good form of currency in the US. Is that the good one? Yeah, the Benjamins. So if you name your child Ben, he will be forever lucky with money. Is that true? Name him Benjamin Franklin. Oh, my goodness be forever lucky with money. Is that true? Especially if you name him Benjamin Franklin. Oh, my goodness.

That is a fact. I think Daredevil's a better Batman than Batman. But Batman is Batman. So it'd be like saying, are you a better me? Am I? Maybe. That's what I think about it. No.

Well, if we just boil down Batman to a job as a protector of a city. Okay, sure. That's probably the best way. Hey, that would have been a good approach. That probably would have been good about 30 minutes ago, but hey, whatever. One quick question. Has the US government ever looked at Hell's Kitchen and went, no, not for us, cut it off from the rest of this country,

we don't want to partner because Christ almighty, what a hellhole. Yeah. It was even getting better until that alien invasion in the TV show like Hell's Kitchen was on the up and up there's aliens?

no no because of the Chitauri invasion from the Avengers oh yeah because it's it's Marvel yeah sick not good

yeah I should have watched that you should have it's a good time nah it's too late they got rid of it damn it up for a week that was it small window of opportunity so yeah Hell's Kitchen has never once Yeah, I should have watched that. You should have. It's a good time. Nah, it's too late. They got rid of it. Damn it.

Up for a week, that was it. Small window of opportunity. So yeah, Hell's Kitchen has never once been shut off from the rest of the world. I think that's just because it's generally nicer also. It's not nice, it still sucks. You haven't got people fleeing Hell's Kitchen and then cops trying to shoot them. Yeah, that's... It'd be like, get the fuck back there in there yeah i think of all the if you compare the nolan universe to the

netflix daredevil straight up batman he's a shit batman because he retires for eight years after being batman for two nights yeah i know right what a champ i'm retiring that was there's no endurance in that is there though because oh that's ridiculous no wonder why he wasn't tired because he only did it for two nights. That time frame was literally like eight months, though. And when he went to the doctor, the doctor's like, your cartilage fucked, your spine's all out of whack and whatever, and your eyesight's fading and more.

I don't know. I can't remember what it was. Wear glasses is what he said. Wear glasses. That's not exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, he took a beating, and that did a lot of damage in a very short period of time. Yeah, so who can take a punch better?

Who can take a punch better? Live action we're talking about. Comics as a whole. As a whole other mess of shit. I feel like Batman's been punched by Superman before and been okay. Oh, yeah. I reckon Clark would be pulling his punches. Yeah, he would have pulled his punches.

Clark has to pull his punches with everyone, otherwise they're rocketing off to space yeah yeah in a fine mist red mist boy so men do good so men do bad so I think

as a protector of a city Daredevil wins hands down not only did he clean up the corruption that was happening in hal's kitchen yeah he got people thrown in jail because of it yeah right real jail real jail crazy people jay arkham jail where they just don't even put a lock on the door it's a one in one out policy i feel yeah that's right i think i've said before it's like a one in three out policy it's just you know once a joke it's sort of like one in three out unless it's a joker then it's

like one in 20 out yeah all out basically um whereas in in batman in gotham look at dark knight rises he doesn't rise from shit by the way anyway he goes down to that bloody pit oh yeah he does oh yeah he wrote i guess kind of give that to you but like the whole stadium falls down yeah even if okay yeah he stops it from being blown to smithereens there's still a lot of repair work

to do that's all on Batman I guess you're right that one stadium that blew up changes everything not just the stadium but the whole city

since Flyers when he's high a building just to remind everyone he's back yeah just climbing up you know putting gasoline was that already there but the whole city. Since Flyer's in an entire building just to remind everyone he's back. Yeah. Just climbing up you know putting gasoline.

Was that already there? Had he prepped that? I reckon yeah. Yeah. I reckon like about yeah eight years later like you know when he was fitter

and his knee wasn't as far. Yeah sure. He probably would have you know. Do you reckon they're all over the city? Oh yeah. They just accidentally go off randomly.

They're just like Batman's back. Because what if they weren't on that lake though? Yeah. You know what I mean? And the lake was frozen. It was just like, Batman's back! Because what if they weren't on that lake, though? And the lake was frozen. It was, yeah. He couldn't have prepped that too early, because it wouldn't have been frozen otherwise.

Batman, come on, man. Get it together. I think all the trauma the Gothamites would have gone through in that period of time when it was basically no man's land. That's a lot of trauma. A lot of stress. A lot of stress a lot of stress you were gotham's elite you were wealthy and shit and now you got like scarecrow on this pile of

books or something judging me to walk on some ice i'm not gonna like that no that sucks what if you say no oh they just kill you i guess yeah you get choice yeah it's just like die or walk on ice and die probably gonna go with if you sat down? They'd probably just kill you. I feel like I'm just going to take it easy. I can't be like, loophole, you son of a bitch. Just get in the ice and just sit down and move. I reckon you could navigate that ice

if you were really careful. I think the thing is once... If you got down and crawled it, like army style. I think the thing is you'd have to walk... Rather than be like a complete knob and like stomp on the fucking ice like you see some of those fuckwits do.

Come on, guys. I guess with with that to survive that particular thing you'd have to walk a certain distance normally so the bad guys are like nah he's he's done and then you'd crawl because if you crawl straight away they're just gonna be like no yeah i don't know they're crawling just crawl but you didn't stipulate that. Mm, loophole. I feel the Scarecrow would be like, okay, the first person did that, or like, yeah, okay, that was a loophole. Yeah. No, he'd be like, ah, that was a loophole. Here's another loophole.

I just gassed you. Have a shit one. I don't know. I give the Scarecrow more integrity than you do, I guess. It's the Scarecrow. If it was Harvey Dent, I'd probably agree, maybe, because he'd probably be like, he'd be like, loophole.

He'd be like, yeah, fair enough. I'll flip a coin. Good luck. Harvey Dent's an idiot. Also, Batman killed him in A Dark Knight. No, he just refused to save him. Oh, that's right. By knocking him off a fucking mezzanine or whatever that was.

Batman falls the same distance and is fine. But he was prepared for it I guess He landed on his knee I think that's what happened to his knee That's why it's fucked That would have been a good explanation Christopher Nolan I know you're listening

Where his two face landed on his face His bad face As we know that's like his Achilles heel He landed on his good face because then he turned his face over As we know his good face is his Achilles heel. He landed on his good face because then he turned his face over. Oh. As we know, his good face is his Achilles heel. Correct. Yes. One slight punch to his good side of his face.

Two faces down. Done. He's dead. That guy was going to die regardless though. Like infection. Surely. I don't know. There's all sorts of things.

At least with like the... Tooth decay. Yeah. At least with like the Tommy Lee Jones version. Like, oh, that looks healed-ish. It's straight. It's like right down the middle of his face. It could not be any more symmetrical. Good times.

So I think in conclusion... Tommy Lee Jones is the best Two-Face. Right. Yeah. Correct. They should have left Michael Keaton upside down in the 1989 Batman. I think that is a solid conclusion that would come. Something about Daredevil, I guess. Batman. Is he better at Batman than Batman?

Who knows? You decide. I'll watch the Netflix series. Your call, James. Sure, whatever. I don't know. I honestly don't know. Solid point. We've analysed pretty much everything we can and look, no one's going to take a risk

I will Yes, Daredevil's better at being a Batman Because he's blind And bats are also blind, sort of But they have eyes Good Sonar And also, I have the least amount of bias

Because I haven't seen it Daredevil sees the world in fire And I'm pretty sure that bats also see the world on fire Therefore, he's a better bat and he's a man. He's a better Batman. Done. Yep. Solid conclusion.

You should yell that at the end. Do now. Plum. Plum. On that note, I've been Joel. I've also been Joel. I've been James. Subscribe to Netflix and watch it if you haven't.

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