Plumbing the Death Star - Why in New Avengers #15 Did Greenday Write a Song about Spider-Man?

Episode Date: January 14, 2024

Jackson’s riddled with covid so no new episode this week, instead here’s an episode from the archives! A Plumbing the Death Star+ that has never been more topical! Originally airing in March 2023 for our beautiful subscribers, we found out Greenday wrote a song all about Spider-Man and had to get to the bottom of it. So in celebration of Greenday’s new album, give this very special episode a very special listen while you go out and buy Greenday’s very special new album.Links to everything in our linktr.ee including our terrible merch, social media garbage and where to become a subscriber to Bad Brain Boys+ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers internet. Visit rogers.com for details. We got you, Rogers. Hey everybody, no new episode of Plumbing the Death Star this week as Jackson went and got the COVID. He thought he was special, having dodged that bullet for the last four years, but I guess 2024 is the year we find out he's not built

differently, nor in fact special. Sucks to suck. So instead, here's an old episode from Plumbing the Death Star Plus, a monthly show we do for all our beautiful and handsome and gorgeous subscribers. a monthly show we do for all our beautiful and handsome and gorgeous subscribers. It's like a regular Plumbing the Death style, but worse. So, if you want more of this, as well as a bunch of other garbage, you can always sign up to Bad Brain Boys Plus over at sandspantsradio.com or through Apple Podcasts. And let's just hope that Jack doesn't get stupider. Because, oof, me and JD sure did, die i don't know if we can cope with that

hey everyone and welcome to this month's episode of plumbing the death star plus i'm joe i'm jackson i'm also joe and today once again we are asking a question has been brought to me by my colleague, Jackson. And that question is, why in a new Avengers issue 15, did Green Day write a song about Spider-Man? Okay, so I know I've brought a lot of nonsense to you recently. I appreciate that. What would you acquire at Playz?

It's sort of an insane question. But this, I saw this on Twitter. I saw somebody tweet this. It's a panel from New Avengers issue 15 yeah it's everyone's favorite spider-man talking to spider-woman and captain america it looks like well it's got the actual issue out anyway so spider-man says come on you've seen the daily bugle headlines spider-man colon menace spider-man colon murderer every day since i was a junior in high school green day made a song out of it and then spider woman says it's not a bad song so i just want to know in what world were green day writing a song about spider-man and what song was it fair i mean

i guess the why would be more like i because again, Spider-Man, you grew up in, I guess, America in that sort of time. And you're reading a lot of the Daily Bugle. So I'm guessing a lot of Green Bay would be like, yeah, fuck Spider-Man. Spider-Man is a menace. Well, it depends. It'll either be Spider-Man's a menace or the opposite. Yeah, well, but it seems like, oh, so you're saying maybe they wrote a song where they're like... Fuck the Daily Bugle.

Leave Spider-Man alone. But Spider-Man says... Nah, it's bad press, though. It is anti-Spider-Man. They... Green Day in 2006, that's when the comic came out, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wrote an anti-Spider-Man anthem.

Oh, yeah. Xanmas pulled up the previous panel and he says, I don't get good press at all. Yeah. Which provides context. Yeah, it's very funny. They're having a meeting. It looks like an Avengers tower. Spider-Man is sulking on a wall.

He's curled up in a ball on the wall. You'd be upset too, of course. He's got a fetal position on a wall. Oh, he is. He looks like a little cocoon. Okay, so I guess this is where, because again, he is. He looks like a little cocoon. I guess this is where, because he's got Tone, Steve,

and the Sentry and that. Wolverine's there with one claw out. He can't pop back in. He's inspecting his one claw. How's it look? This is that kind of team where I think it was like after the Avengers got dismantled, basically. Disassembled, okay.

Disassembled, sorry. It's a new Avengers. They sort of came together again and I guess they're looking at like, well, we're here, we're back and everyone's like, how can we trust you? You have that piece of shit Spider-Man. And Spider-Man's, I'm a liability. They wrote that song about me. Now, Dushy, you're the music man. Can you tell us what album

in 06 this song would have been on? So, Dushree, you're the music man. Yeah. Can you tell us what album in 06 this song would have been on? So, it's in between albums for Green Day, but it is- A single? It is- Maybe an anti-Spider-Man EP? I believe that the album American Idiot came out in 2005. Okay. Can I add maybe a different spanner into this work?

So, when you're trying to figure out when this was and what song it is. Yeah. The sentence is, works when you're trying to figure out when this was and what song it is. The sentence is, every day since I was a junior in high school Sorry, I'm getting bad press. Green Day made a song out of it.

So this could, it might not be a recent song. This could be at any point in Spider-Man's career. So Spider-Man, at this point he's like an adult man. And he's been a Spider-Man, let's say, say at this point he's what, 25? Yeah.

He looks like a little boy in the panel still. This is when, like, I think he might have been, like, this is. Are you going to tell me that he got shot with, like, a ray that made him a baby again or something? No, no, no, no, no. Like, was this before or after Civil War? When was Civil War the comics? God damn it. Anyway.

Yeah, I feel like it seems crazy for Green Day to have written a song about a teenage boy where they call him a man. He's a science teacher at this point. Or he becomes a science teacher either just before or after this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Extra good that he's in a fatal position on the wall having a soul. Like a baby. Because, again, Civil War, and that's when he kind of gets outed as Peter Parker. Oh, okay.

He's like 2006, 2007. So that's after this. So this is after that. Or, so wait, so hang on. Has Green Day written a song about Spider-Man the public figure? Yes. Okay. But not about Peter Parker the man.

All right. I'm just trying to say it's very targeted. So time-wise, like, yeah. So this is definitely Peter Parker has, when can you become a teacher? When can you become, I know in Australia, I mean, they've changed it a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Requirements, but you have to do like a degree and then you have to do then like a year, at least a dip ed. Yeah, yeah. Spider-Man never does a dip ed. He's kind of, he's like, you know science, teach this school. What is it like in America? Anyway. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But I feel like if he's. So I'm going to go with his like, you know science, teach this school. What is it like in America?

Anyway. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But I feel like if he's- I'm going to go with his like, let's say 28. Yeah, okay. So you now have any time.

And he became a Spider-Man when he was like- He was like 17, yeah? Yeah. I would say earlier, like 16, right? Oh my God. Well, this is junior high school, which is, yeah, 16. Yeah, okay. So again, let's say you've got around about anywhere between-

I think, or 17. Like 10 to 15 years. Yeah, okay. Well, then we need to ask the question, at what point did the Daily Bugle, was it out the gate? They were like Spider-Man's and Manor's? It says that in the previous sentence, every day since junior high school. That's true, that's true, that's true, that's true. So we've got, okay, so we've spent the net for the last 10 years of Green Dome.

So I was one year off with American Needed. It actually came out in 2004. Okay. So Nimrod, which is the album that has like time of your life, or Good Riddance, which is actually what it's called. Warning, which is... When was their first album? That's a great question. We can narrow this down.

Well, it depends. Oh, okay. When was their first album? Just like their first... first Well the first actual album Is called Kaplunk And it's in 1992 Okay Cause again

I'm thinking Spider-Man If I look We're going through 2006 Roughly Spider-Man Got bitten And was like All made fun of By the Daily Bugle

Ran about like 1991 Yeah okay So this is a formation maybe Of Green Day Green Day Or about the spider matters Well Green day's first big album is 1994 which is dookie which has like long view which is a song about masturbating uh-huh so i'm assuming though that like uh green day were noodling around with like music when they were in high school and

whatnot so i'm assuming that like so they you know they were in peak high school when Spider-Man was Spider-Menacing. Yeah, that's true. Or at least that kind of. Where are Green Day from? Another question. Yeah, do Green Day know of Spider-Man as like a- They're not from New York. Okay.

So Spider-Man, they're just reading about in the papers. They're not actually witnessing Spider-Man doing anything. Green Day's from- What is Litzinger man name? Billy Joel. Yeah, I was going to say, Billy Joel? Yeah, Piano Man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Plays the song, You're the Spider-Man. They're from fucking, I want to say Green Bay. lead singer man name billy joe billy yeah i was gonna be billy joel yeah piano man yeah yeah plays the song you're the spider-man they're from fucking i want to say green bay but no that's

wrong there's no way green day i'm not from there oh no fucking um no look just say it i'm not gonna i'm looking yeah yeah california california okay other side of the other side of the country all right so i guess okay so what would be the media landscape in the 90s of being like, there is a Spider-Man in New York who is menacing that city, traveling to the other side of the country. I would also just quickly say that they say, so the band name is still Green Day. Uh-huh. And the way that it's referenced is not Green Day started because of you.

That's true. It's Green Day wrote a song about. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, years active, 1987 to present. Okay. Yeah, but they're. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right. So. Because, yeah, they have. That's why. Yeah, look. Because they actually have an album before Kaplunk.

It's a compilation of like an EP. Yeah. Actually, no. I fucked up yeah the first album is called A Thousand Hours yeah okay which is 1990

well I think another important so like his dad was a jazz musician and a truck driver okay okay we're learning a bit about Billy Joe Armstrong here

which is is useful as well I think yeah because I'm trying to find out how does like they get in their information about Spider-Man yeah yeah yeah the 90s it's internet is not a thing no yeah well that's which is useful as well, I think. Yeah, because I'm trying to find out how they get their information about Spider-Man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The 90s, internet is not a thing.

No, yeah, but that's what I think as well. So in New York, how many, the Daily Bugle, let's be honest, boys, it's a rag. Yeah. It's a fucking rag. Oh, yeah. It'd be similar to how we know about the mirror. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. The UK's mirror.

Yeah. So does that mean, and because i think this is important as well so green day's song about spider-man is it like a kind of comedic song isn't it funny we all hate this spider-man or is it like a protest song about how bad spider-man is because i think that will help us determine what album it's on as well yeah or could just be the absurdity that there is a like a man who is a spider terrorizing New York. I think the way Spider-Man talks about it, it's gotta be

pretty anti-Spider-Man, this song. Yeah, which is weird for Green Day to do. It's so strange for Green Day to do. I think it would be more of like that it's just kind of like captivating that maybe Spider-Man doesn't understand subtext. Oh, okay. You know what I mean?

Peter Parker's like, Green Day's writing a mean song about me but really it's just like day is just like almost the absurdity of superheroes maybe yeah okay we're focusing on um focusing but yeah so like early green day like because again when when did green day because green day kind of got preachy yeah i guess their music and we were all preachy towards their sort of like american idiot right yeah american idiot's kind of a protest album. Kind of against, like, Bush and stuff. Yeah, I mean, it's funny to be like, American Idiot is, um, I'm just double-checking, it is political. It is political. It's a massively

Yeah. Politics in my music? What? No! I liked music when it was just bops! Yeah, no, it's a huge anti-Bush album and, like, Rock Against Bush volume one and two are around that time too. It's so fucked up to imagine they just tacked on an anti-Spider-Man song.

Well, I will say, they've got an anti-Arnold Schwarzenegger song. Oh, okay. All right. At what point? It's a bonus track on American Idiot. It's called Governator. Okay, okay.

So are we possibly... Are we going to settle on an album? Because I think there's another... I think maybe a few iterations here. Yeah, sure. Sure, sure, sure. Because I think there's Another I think maybe some A few iterations here Yeah sure Sure sure sure I Again if it was

On the American Idiot Yeah Um Album Yeah It would be an anti-Spider-Man person Maybe they're blaming Spider-Man For what is Spider-Man

For the Iraq War What Well okay Okay cause American Idiot Is a pretty succinct narrative Yeah American Idiot is a pretty succinct narrative American Idiot the song is about George Bush

and then you get a character who's like fuck America every character in the American Idiot album have the worst fucking names because you got Saint Jimmy and then you got Jesus of Suburbia then you've got

what's her name And then you've got Jesus of Suburbia. Then you've got What's-Her-Name. Question. So, now we know, due to other comics and that kind of stuff, that 9-11 happens in Marvel. Uh-oh. So that means Iraq War. Are they blaming Spider-Man for not stopping? They don't touch 9-11 in any of their songs that I can think of at all.

Okay. Not even like a hint? Not even like an implication there? Green Day have not mad that Spider-Man didn't stop 9-11. I was just wondering. Because that sentiment probably would have been around, even though Doctor Doom's crying or whatever because 9-11 happened. Where were you on the day?

Where were you, Spider-Man, when the towers were hit? Is a reasonable question to ask. Spider-Man was, you know, that's his turf. I mean, I don't know if you can expect Spider-Man to stop a plane, but still. As opposed to, like, say, I don't know, Captain, maybe Iron Man. Yeah, Iron Man or something. Yeah, but it's specifically an anti-Spider- Okay, well, but that brings us up to the next question that I've been thinking about is,

what specifically does the Daily Bugle- Oh, Dusha's got a bad grimace on his face. What specifically does the Daily Bugle say about Spider-Man? Because that's where the anti-Spider-Man rhetoric is coming from, primarily the Daily Bugle. So what are they saying about Spider-Man that Green Day might hear and then create a song about? Like, what do they say Spider-Man does?

They say he's a menace, sure, but because they're saying he's stealing from old ladies, they're saying he's stealing from old ladies, they're saying he's killing, you know, killing people. I wonder if someone has gotten a, almost like a, I would like to say almost like a blog or something like that, where every single headline from the Daily Bugle against... Ah, that would roll.

That's anti-Spider-Man. Yeah. A lot of it's like, you know, hero or vigilante? What's he doing? What's he doing out there? What's he up to okay okay okay yeah so like is it the kind of thing because if spider-man is just blamed if it's like anytime spider-man fights a bad guy they're like maybe the bad guy was a good guy and spider-man caused the destruction or whatever then i can imagine green day maybe you know using that as the

impetus to write a song but okay yeah so you're j. Jonah Jameson. Oh, no. One of the worst terrorist attacks against America has happened. No! Who do you think J. Jonah might blame? Okay, and then Green Day read what would become quite a public piece, quite a famous piece from the Daily Bugle, to be like, again, fuck. And they pen a song.

Yeah, Dusha, you look very distraught. I didn't think we'd end up here. What did you think was gonna happen? I thought it was funny that Green Day wrote a song about Spiderman. I didn't think we'd end up at 9-11. I predicted that. So, American Idiot has a very strong...

So, it's anti-Bush, but the other thing, like Billy Joe, when he was writing the song, was like, and I don't know how I forgot this, because it's all throughout the album. It's like, he's got a real distaste for, like, in particular, the media's portrayal of the war in Iraq. Okay. So that album's anti-media. Yeah. It's hard to, like... So are they...

Okay. So is it more like... So again, it's anti-media. Kind of what's similar happened to this day and age where it's like a fake news I got it. Yeah Is you know, it's like it's like journalists are going to the war and being like whoa It's like yeah, you'd stand alongside people that are about to die. Yeah, it's not it's not kind of being like, you know This is the mainstream media. They don't know what they're fucking talking about. Yeah, yeah daily bugles not the mainstream media

They know what's going on. They're blamed spider-man. Oh, okay Daily Bugle is not the mainstream media. They know what's going on. They blame Spider-Man. Oh, okay. So Billy Joe's like, he found a distaste for the cable TV's coverage of the war. They had these journalists in the tanks with the soldiers getting the play-by-play.

Well then, I mean, maybe, maybe then it's actually pro-Spider-Man. Maybe. Oh! Found something. And this changes a very funny thing. Despite the song taking place, so the song title will come up in a second. Okay.

Despite the song taking place during Bush's reign, Armstrong says it wasn't just about the 43rd president telling the spin. I would never think of American Idiot as being about the Bush administration. Specifically, it's about the confusion of where we're at right now. The world is in a confused state. I'm pissed off and I'm angry and I feel like it's not being fully represented. American Idiot could be rewritten to be about Spider-Man, yes. Yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay. So American Idiot.

The rest of the album, because the way that the panel stands out, it sounds like that it's a single. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that like it's, I mean, a catchy single by Green Day. That's not it. Yeah, that's why you release a fucking like, it's... I mean, a catchy single by Green Day. That's not... Yeah. That's why you release a fucking single. It's like, oh, we wrote a catchy song. Anyway.

So if American Idiot just has another verse that references Spider-Man... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I pull up the lyrics for American Idiot. You gotta pull up the lyrics for... I also know that the song American Idiot is a land like there's a lot of 2004 was a while ago

yeah yeah yeah a lot of landmines a lot of landmines okay alright I'm just trying to find like again daily bugle kind of things about Spider-Man and it's just like he says there's a menace a mask menace I do like one which is Spider-Man fires first shot in mob war like Spider-Man's and it's just like, he says, there's a menace, a masked menace. I do like one which is, Spider-Man fires first shot

in Mob War. Like, Spider-Man's a piece of shit. Yeah, okay, but it's still pretty vague. When I pulled up the lyrics, they pulled up a live version where they've just got Billy Joe talking halfway through the song in lyrics form, so that's funny. Like, remember the part where he says, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, alright, England?

Yes. Yes, I do. Okay. That's from Bullet in a Bar. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, England. Yes. Yes, I do. Okay. That's from Bulletin of Life. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So American Idiot's not too bad. Opens with, don't want to be an American idiot.

Yeah, yeah. Don't want a nation under the new media. Can you hear the sound of hysteria? The subliminal mind. Fuck. Ah! The subliminal mind. Fuck.

So not mind. Not mind, comma, fuck America. Subliminal mind fuck. So not mind, not mind, comma, fuck America. Subliminal mind fuck. America. Welcome to a new kind of tension. All across the alien nation. Yeah. Where everything isn't meant to be okay.

Yeah, again, this is like a, it attacks the media. Billy Joe, what happened to you in Spider-Man world? Where Spider-Man being a menace was enough to change American Idiot. Where he was like, yeah, the media's fucked. These journalists are going to Iraq and they are like, kind of like sensationalizing the war. But I heard that Spider-Man fired the first shot in the mob war. I'm just trying to think like, oh, is it a kind of thing where it's like, oh, well, like oh, well, Peter Parker, he's a journalist or a photojournalist. That's true.

But then again, he doesn't know. But then again, he's the one taking pictures of Spider-Man. This song attacks propaganda. Okay. And we're like, hey, we're in a paranoid age. Maybe Peter Parker's a bit stupid. Yeah, yeah. Actually, no way. Here you go. a bit stupid. Yeah, yeah. Maybe it's not. Maybe.

Actually, no way. Here you go. Ow. Look. Hey, theory, theory, theory, theory. Yeah, I'm listening. So Peter Parker, what we do know about Peter Parker is that he is very much a woe is me. I'm always a victim.

That's true. Everyone's making fun of me no matter what. He's a sack of shit. Yeah. Even when things are going his way, he's always like, I am waiting for the rubber band to snap. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It's like something good happens. He's basically one of those people who's always going to be like, no matter how, I am waiting for the rubber band to snap. You know what I mean? It's like something good happens. He's basically one of those people who's always going to be like, no matter how good I am, no matter what I do, something's going to come and smack me in the back of the head. It's kind of like the rubber band pulled and pulled and pulled. And then eventually, no matter how good it gets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's always like that.

So no matter what happens, he's always like, I'm the victim. And everything bad is going to happen because I'm a piece of shit. So what if it is kind of like the same kind of song? Again, American Idiot. And it. Yeah. So what if it is kind of like the same kind of song, again, American Idiot, and it's about the media or whatever it is, and there's a reference to a Spider-Man thing there and a reference to being the bugle like Spider-Man's a menace or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

And Spider-Man just hears that and he's like, they hate me. This is about me. Yeah. Theory number two. Boulevard of Broken Dreams is just about Spider-Man. Boulevard of Broken Dreams comes out as is, and it's about Spider-Man because everyone hates him. Yeah, because here's the thing.

Jessica Drew in the panel is like, it's catchy though. So she agrees with him that it's an anti-Spider-Man song, whatever it is. Or not even necessarily anti-Spider-Man, but a Spider-Man song. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I walk a lonely road, the only one that I've ever known. Don't know where it goes, but it's home to me.

And I walk alone. Spider-Man, early days. Yeah. Now, what if you changed the word walk to swing? I swing a lonely road, the only one that I have. I swing a lonely rope, the only one that I've ever known. I don't know where it goes, but it's

home to me, and I walk alone. I swing the center street on the boulevard of broken dreams. Maybe Jersey. Where the city sleeps. Well, again, because the city sleeps, that's like opposite New York, so opposite of the city that never sleeps.

My shadow is the only one that swings beside me. Shadow, maybe referencing to the black cat? No the venom symbiote The black suit Billy Joe Armstrong's been watching He's like Spider-Man got that black suit I gotta include that in my new song

It's basically like a shadow version of him It's darker and it's a bit more violent Alright alright It's a sad song to write about someone you don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My shallow heart's the only one that's beating again. Maybe because, you know, Spider-Man, he's got a lot of weight on his shoulders. Maybe that comes through his costume.

Maybe that comes through his heroics. Yeah, because. Where it's like, oh yeah, I can see the death of his uncle and the death of Gwen Stacy. But do people know about that? Or is Billy Joe Armstrong just making a sound? He's like, I bet that guy's so sad yeah well maybe billy joe's like why why is this man trying so hard to prove himself that he's a good person and trying to stop all this kind of stuff yeah he's done some he's he's he's got some darkness in him and there's something there yeah and that time that he

dressed in that black suit that was him going that was his shadow yeah i can relate to him somehow and i'm gonna um yeah this song about spider-man yeah i mean so boulevard of broken dreams works but what if jesus is suburbia's spider-man of suburbia well yeah yeah i'm the son of rage and love the spider-man of suburbia the bible of none of the above on a steady diet of soda pop and ritalin no one's ever died for my sins in hell as far as i can tell at least not uh at least the ones i got away with yeah yeah and there's nothing wrong with me this is how i'm supposed but this is how i'm supposed to be in the land of make-believe that don't believe in me okay i mean like don't believe in me maybe what he's

talking about is the double entendre yeah double entendre Oh, nobody's got faith in Spider-Man. I live in the land of make-believe because there's fucking superheroes all over this shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then sad sack Spider-Man. Here's this song that's actually on his side. And it's like, Green Day hate me. Green Day loathe me. And again, you look at Spider-Man, maybe he didn't even listen to the song.

Yeah. Maybe he only got, like, whatever. Because again, what he says before it is like, you know, the, the, you've seen the Daily Bugle headline, Spider-Man menace,

Spider-Man murderer. Every day since I was a junior in high school, Green Day made a song of it. Yeah. Out of it. So again, it could just be like, you know,

Green Day being like, wow, my heart bleeds for Spider-Man. Yeah. And so no one like, Cause Green Day made a song out of it. Like, like,

yeah, like I keep on assuming that it's an anti-Spider-Man song, but a song out of it could just be the song of Spider-Man. Yeah. The song of Spider-Man's whole life, you know what I mean? Like, Green Day, they don't really believe the bullshit, but they made a song about that. And it was a nice song.

It was a bop. Yeah, yeah, it was a bop. Everyone loved it. But even still, it still drew attention to the bad press that he kept getting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like, in most kind of bits of media where you're like, oh, you know, you analyze it. You're like, oh, this means this, but this means it. People are like, yeah, it's a pro-Spiderman.

People are like, nah, it's Spider-Man. It's anti-Spiderman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I guess it doesn't really matter which song on American Idiot it is. It's going to either come across as anti-Spiderman or that Spider-Man's a sad sack of shit. to either come across as anti-Spider-Man or that Spider-Man's a sad sack of shit. Yeah, it's not, yeah, even if it's not directly anti-Spider-Man,

it's, like, negative. I mean, like, we know, as people that are aware of Spider-Man, that, yeah, he is a sad sack of shit, but it's funny to write a song and be like, like, especially if it's Jesus of Suburbs, it's like, here's my nine-and-a-half-minute song about this guy I don't know

and how he's depressed as fuck and sucks. Spider-Man being like, how does he know? How does Billy Joe know this about me? Yeah, Boulevard of Broken Dreams. It's like, you know, read between the lines, what's fucked up and everything's alright, check my vital signs, I know I'm still alive and I walk alone. It's like, oh, okay.

You can pin that on old Petey there and even if it maybe isn't, maybe Peter's reading into it. Well, that was what I was going to say. Because if we assume Boulevard of Broken Dreams or Jesus of Suburbia are Spider-Man songs with no changed lyrics, how does Spider-Man know that they're about him? Is this an interview with Billy Joe where he's like, I wrote this song about the Spider-Man in New York?

Could be, actually. Or does Spider-Man see, because what about this, theory number three, Spider-Man, he is in an interview, that Billy Joe's new album, American Idiot, is about Spider-Man. And he thinks that American Idiot is about him. And he's like, Billy Joe Armstrong has called me an American Idiot.

Yeah, because how much does Spider-Man listen to? Did he listen to the whole album? We don't know. Did Spider-Man sit down and listen to American Idiot? He didn't just take it at face value. He's like, okay, so Billy Joe is like, so this isn't so much about the Bush administration, it's just kind of about where we are, the media landscape.

Yeah, it's where we are in 2006. The Daily Bugle, they did a whole thing about Spider-Man. And I've talked to people who live in New York, and they seem to like Spider-Man. And they're out there saving lives. But again, his person is hounded by the press over and over again. And I just kind of put my mindset into this person. Try to imagine what it was like to be Spider-Man.

And so then like be so lonely there because you've got all this negative press and you're trying your best to try and save lives. But all you're doing is getting shat on. So like, you know, I wrote this whole song where it's like, you know, I walk alone kind of stuff because he seems so lonely. Even though he's in a couple of teams still. At this point he wasn't. I need you to look up some exam. We got comics and music here and it's very useful. I need you to find out what kind of music Spider-Man

likes. Because that will help us determine whether or not he listened to American Idiot by Green Day. One thing I know about Spider-Man is media consumption is that he does like stand-up. Okay. Because he wants to be a stand-up. Yeah.

It seems unlike... I can't... Spider-Man does not seem like a pop-punk guy. Go back to school with Rogers and get Canada's fastest and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers Internet.

Visit rogers.com for details. We got you. Rogers. Okay. That's not the vibes I get from. Well, it depends because there's that Spider-Man where he has a mohawk and a. Well, that's Spider-Punk. And he likes British Punk.

But Green Day are inspired. He's by The Clash and stuff like that. The Clash and other British punk bands. Oh, Buzzcocks and fucking. Look, someone on Aquora, their opinion. They have posted a panel, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, I don't think there is one ounce of music snob in Peter's body.

Oh, okay. So I think he enjoys happy songs casually, especially those that relate to other people. I think also it's probably going to be hard to, if he hears the radio, it's going to be hard to ignore American Idiot. It was all over the airwaves. They raise a good point where he doesn't have much time to listen. So maybe he's not really listening to the album because he's got to be out there alert. He's got to be twipping around. So maybe he'll need to pick it up through like you know car radio

yeah people playing it on their um uh stereos their cd walkmans spider-man would like green day okay why do you say this because the only pop jazz big band and pop jazz the only yeah the only The only musical reference that someone could find was in Marvel Team-Up Annual Issue 4 from 1981. A bad guy references Shakespeare, and he's like, I don't know much Shakespeare. And he's like, what do you know? He's like, Elvis Costello. And then he references an Elvis Costello song. Green Day, especially in the later half of their career borrow pretty heavily from that kind of style wouldn't be surprised if

obviously this Spider-Man we're talking about wasn't alive in 1981, but if we're taking that kind of sensibility He also does like Ella Fitzgerald so again, it's very much jazz inspiration Okay So he's talking to Mary Jane to be like

Hey, I've got this great new Ella Fitzgerald album. And MJ's like, Ella who? We'll just have to do something about your taste in music. It's strictly 1964. You're a response weird. Maybe so. But it's all mine. So it's less about what does Peter listen to

but what did MJ make him listen to to expand MJ would have loved Green Day MJ Mary Jane Parker would have loved

Green Day so I'm guessing because Spider-Man is going from like you know Aleph Fitzgerald all that kind of like jazz

because I'm guessing that's what he listened to with Aunt May yeah true true true so it's kind of like there's big band Aunt May would have hated Green Day

yeah yeah yeah there's jazz and those kind of things. Yes, I guess. Yes, Mary Jane. What did MJ? MJ was cool. She was sort of a theater kid, but Green Day. Green Day, big kid energy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

MJ loves Green Day. But Spider-Man's like, please stop playing this album. This album is specifically anti-me, babe. It's great. It's so catchy. Or like, oh, imagine that. It's just kind of like she plays that song like over and over again before she knows that Pete's Spider-Man.

And then finally, like, you know, even if he tells her, he's like, oh my God, thank you, Tiger, for telling me so much. Then she's like in the back of her head. I have played that song so much. Oh my God. I've played that famous Green Day anti-Spider-Man album again and again and again in the apartment. No wonder Peter keeps crying. American Idiot brackets Spider-Man.

Spider-Man is the comma American Idiot. I want to be an American Idiot. I want to be Spider-Man is the comma American idiot I want to be an American idiot I want to be Spider-Man Other person who is sort of like looked into this is like so in the 90s I don't think grunge or hip hop would fit him

he would probably like a little ska punk with its upbeat vibe Green Day aren't ska but they do have King for a Day, which is a Scar song. So maybe that was his sort of like gateway. That's 1997. That's on Nimrod, I'm pretty sure.

Okay. Well, because I was wondering as well, it's the kind of thing where I can imagine if he had never listened to the album. Yeah. I can imagine Green Day, oh, wait, is the Spider-Man theme song a real song in Spider-Man's world Well if it is

Well who does it That's Ramones isn't it Yeah Oh in what I was gonna say in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Because there is a Spider-Man Spider-Man And people are playing it

Yeah Who does it Because I can imagine Because Ramones have a cover of it, but Ramones on a band. Because Spider-Man becomes Spider-Man in the 2000s. Yeah. Raimi's Spider-Man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Maybe Nickelback since Hero is Chad Kroger. Because you can imagine, maybe not on American Idiot. Spider-Man! Spider-Man! Okay. American Idiot Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman Spiderman

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particular i'll just play a second of it and then we'll be like, alright, is this Oliver's Army from Armed Forces? Yeah. Okay. Okay. I know this song. Yeah. Well, that sounds... Okay, so it's got a pretty strong Clash vibe.

So if he likes that album, he probably likes London Calling. And if he likes London Calling and he wants to listen to bands that are trying to do what The Clash were. So if he likes that album, he probably likes London Calling. And if he likes London Calling, he wants to listen to bands that are trying to do what The Clash were doing. But in the 2000s, yeah, Green Day's a big one. I think he'd probably be a fan of Green Day. Yeah, so he's definitely, definitely

listening to it. Yeah, he's... Then it makes it so much more of a betrayal. He's lost Green Day since he was a kid. And he's like, oh, they got their new album. It's... Then it makes it so much more of a betrayal. He's lost Green Day since he was a kid. And he's like, oh, they got their new album. As we've sort of said, one of the theories is that it's not an anti-Spider-Man song. It's just that this has happened. So it's kind of more about like a...

Because he's being called a menace, but he's a hero. Maybe it's like a song which is about what does it mean to be a hero. Yeah, yeah. Even though you're villainized by the media. Because he's going off of the media, right? Yeah. And it also could just be that Les being anti-Spider-Man as in he's a menace. But because of what he's saying in the panel, it could be like Green Day have a song about how the media hates me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm thinking. So it's like I've been yelled I've been, like, you know, being yelled at by the Daily Bugle on a daily basis. You know, Green Day made a song out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's like, imagine Green Day being like, wow, for 10 years or 15 years.

Spider-Man's a sad sack of shit because the papers hate him. Green Day kind of fell off. Almost like, close to after like two decades here, there is one paper that fucking hates this guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're going to write this kind of fell off. Close to after like two decades here, there is one paper that fucking hates this guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're going to write this kind of like a song about how much this one paper hates this one guy. I think that's up their alley. I think that could have been a song.

I don't think it is any song on American Idiot, but it could have been a song on the album. You know what I mean? American Idiot, but it could have been a song on the album. You know what I mean? It's got the same themes about the media misrepresenting people and the media sensationalizing things. I think they could have written a – like Jessica Drew, Spider-Woman in the panel, she is kind of consoling. She's like, it's pretty catchy though.

Yeah, it's not a bad song. But I guess that's – and maybe that makes you think, oh, well, it is anti-Spider-Man. And she's like, no, no, yeah, I know it sucks, but it's pretty catchy. But actually she could just be like, yeah, it's sad. Your life's sad, but the song's pretty catchy. Yeah. And, you know, that's, you know, some small silver lining.

Yeah. It's not a bad song. It's not bad to you. No. No, yeah, potentially. It's not, you know, it's kind of just. It's not a bad. It just shows it's kind of it's not a bad it just shows

what's happening it's not a bad thing no it's like you know it's not yeah it's not completely negative it's funny that

Spider-Man's bringing it up when like surely everyone knows you know so reading further on the comic

so what happens is like so Peter's like woe is me and so then Iron Man is like, alright, go put on your mask, hide your wife and aunt, he'll be here in 27 minutes.

And Spider-Man's like, clearly, because this is the face of a man who has just had an assault. He's still in the fetal position on the wall at this point. And they invite J. Jonah Jameson to the Avengers Tower. They should have invited Green Day. I know.

I was like, no way Green Day are in the show. We are inviting J. Jonah Jameson to announce the Avengers. And they're like, look at the team. And he's like, hmm. Him? And then we see a bit of a couple of headlines. Spider-Man murderer, Spider-Man menace, Spider-Man clone is a menace.

Wanda terrorizes the city. Jonah seems to, a lot of his body language is like, he's standoffish. He's not happy about it. I'm just trying to see, because something I thought would be interesting to check. He shakes hands with Spider-Man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Spider-Man's like, so J. Jonah's like, I report the news. And so they're basically being like, we will give you exclusive coverage and exclusive access if you lay off Spider-Man. And then his editor, I think Robbie's like, say yes or I quit. So I guess. So they don't come to. He's like. He gets blackmailed. Yeah.

He's basically like, I'll happily stop besmirching Spidey's good name. Yeah, yeah. To get exclusive access to the Avengers. Okay. All right. All right. All right. Green Day should have got the same deal.

Yeah. Bring Green Day in and be like, Billy Joe, stop playing that song live. We'll give you full access to the Avengers. Why would I want that? You can write a song about all of us. Why are you just writing songs about Spider-Man? There's a lot of other guys. Invite Billy Joel in just to yell at him.

Yeah. Hey! Dude. What the fuck? Write a song about Iron Man. Yeah. He's got a just as... Well, nobody hates him.

Nobody's written a specifically anti-Iron Man newspaper. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird to pick on

Spider-Man like because obviously in Spider-Man standalone media. The Daily Bugle hating him makes sense. Yeah. But when you put it in the actual like Earth

616 it's fucked up. Yeah. It's fucked up. Right about the Hulk. There are. The Hulk's like, what if an earthquake had legs? Yeah. So almost immediately, J. Jonah reneges his deal because he announces, they're talking about the new Avengers team. Yeah.

And it's got Sentry, Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, Jessica Drew, and Luke Cage on it. And the, I guess, the- There's a name they forgot there, I reckon. A wanted murderer, an alleged ex-member of a global terrorist organization, and a convicted heroin dealer are just a few of the new recruits who are supposed to bury the once good name of the Avengers once and for all. Who's the heroin dealer? Luke Cage, falsely accused. The case was overturned. J. Jonah Jameson, sack of shit, I reckon.

Yeah. And if Green Day wrote a song about Spider-Man, well, it would probably be on the American Idiot album, and it would probably be either about how Spider-Man sucks, which would not really make sense. No, that wouldn't be very Green Day. But what would make sense is if they wrote a song about how he's a sad sack of shit.

Yeah, for sure. And how he's being portrayed in the movie. Well, I guess it makes sense because American Idiot is mostly about how the war is portrayed in America. So maybe they just referenced Spider-Man being like, no, so we hate this kid. You're an idiot. Yeah. Just as a verse in American Idiot. I think that might be using it as an example, as a verse.

And maybe it's kind of a thing where, like as you said, Billy Joe in an interview was just like, oh yeah, it's about this, this, and also like, you know, the Spider-Man. In many ways, it's about Spider-Man too. Like the hypocritical nature of America, like we hate the war, but we can't stop watching it on the news, and like how we read in the papers that Spider-Man's a murderer, but then when he saves our lives, we're like, thank you, Spider-Man.

And then Spider-Man, who just catches the tail end of that starts crying Spider-Man he's a big American idiot fucking hates me or he doesn't he doesn't hear the interview

and he's just like he hears this song where it's like Spider-Man saves us but is sad and we despise him

American idiot don't want to be an American Spider-Man Spider-Man across the nation or is it kind of thick where like the American idiot like a phrase or like one of the like the verses an American Spider-Man Spider-Man across the nation Or is it kind of thing Where like the American idiot

Like a phrase Or like one of the Verses that include Spider-Man And it goes to the chorus American idiot And then Spider-Man's like It's about me

And then he's curled up In the fetal position On a wall All crying MJ's like It's not about It's just using his example I think Billy Joe

Hates me And when Jessica Drew is like it's it's catchy she's like being like just please let's move on like i'm sick of having this conversation with you spider-man it's catchy it's also not about you whatever get off the wall stop having a war cry monica it's really sucks that i'm like i i'm basically lady you and this you're bringing us all down okay one last question about it. How do we think it was received by the public? Well, if it's on American Idiot, well.

If it's on Warning, not so well. Warning, mixed bag of an album. It's one they were dipping their toe in, but they did too many things at once. Not a very cohesive album. Everyone was like, I guess punk is dead. Jessica Drew says it's not a bad song yeah it's a

great song so i reckon maybe it's like like maybe how would you describe american idiot it's pretty good which is pretty good and not a bad song it's pretty much the same yeah again i'm not trying to console the man who just has a tantrum so yeah and also also it's not a bad song like it's not a bad song what it's like it's not a bad song. It's not a bad song. What is like, it's not a bad song? That's the thing with comics. Yeah, that's true. We don't know. We don't know.

We don't know the tones. Yeah. So it could be like, it's not a bad, in brackets, anti-Spider-Man song. It's not a bad song. It's not a bad listen. Yeah, it's catchy. Gets me up and about. Yeah, I play it all the time.

Maybe she's trying to. It's my favorite fucking song of all time. Maybe it is. Maybe she's trying to, like, you know, like, kind of rein in. Because she doesn't like, it's my favorite fucking song of all time maybe it is maybe she's trying to like you know like kind of rein in because she doesn't like it's a

fucking great song yeah yeah actually like one of it's in like the

hall of fame of the best songs made in the 2000s

like it's real fucking good it's one of the

best and before we close this because I feel like we have like this is open

showcase we've got to the bottom yeah what were you hoping to happen

this is what I was looking for this is good we just solved this mystery we put the greatest minds of our generation Okay, so we've got to the bottom of it. What were you hoping to happen? This is what I was looking for. This is good. We just solved this mystery.

We put the greatest minds of our generation into what song or how did they come about? What was it about? And it's not an anti-Spider-Man song. It's not about how Spider-Man's a piece of shit. It's simply about how Spider-Man is portrayed in the media. It just happens that the issues Spider-Man faces fold perfectly into the Green Day album American Idiot. Spider-Man is such a victim, and nothing good can come out of it. It's not about, like, hey, Spider-Man, this was good for you.

It was a good press. He's like, no, they hate me. He's like, all press is bad press. I think actually what has happened is, I've come away from this with actually a slightly different view than that. I think that that panel, in fact, is him being like, the media hates me. It's so well known that the media hates me that Green Day wrote a song

about it. And then Jessica Drew's like, yeah, and it's not a bad song. It's a pretty good song. Yeah. And then because then the theme of the media being dog cunts or whatever fits into American Idiot because that's what the album's

about. Yeah, exactly. It's perfect. Everybody do the propaganda. Yeah. Don't read rags. If I could get one, I wish this episode had had more singing in it. That's my one criticism of it.

It's good because we just keep not, like, not singing. Yeah, I know. We could have, but none of us are quite brave enough to. I can't do Billy Joe's voice.

I can't do anyone's voice. Well, that's it. I want to be an American Spider-Man. Yeah. An American Spider-Man. And I walk alone in the world that I have ever known.

Spider-Man of broken dreams. I'm the son of Rage and Love Spider-Man of Superbion Spider-Man of Broken Dreams is almost a perfect song to sing when you are having a full-blown break there yeah absolutely

Spider-Man it's when what's fucked up and everything's all right. My spider man. My spider man. It's the only thing that works for Simon. But it's shadowed. Is that this quench your thirst? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm satisfied now. Thanks, guys. And on that note, I've been Joel. I've been Jackson. And I've also been Joel. Join us next month for no doubt

another dog shit question as presented to us by Jackson Bailey that we then really work hard to turn into a listenable episode. You gotta stop

saying yes. We don't. No. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't.

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We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. and most reliable internet. Perfect for streaming lectures all day or binging TV shows all night. Save up to $20 per month on Rogers Internet. Visit rogers.com for details. We got you.

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