Pod Save America - All Tied up Before the Debate

Episode Date: September 10, 2024

Debate day has arrived, and new polls show that the race couldn't be closer. Jon, Lovett, and Tommy offer their final thoughts before Kamala Harris and Donald Trump's first, and potentially only, face-off. Harris lays out her strategy for dealing with Trump in a new radio interview, updates her website with policy proposals, and releases an ad to troll Trump. Meanwhile, Trump plays the hits with new threats to arrest his political opponents and incite violence. Then, Senate candidate Angela Alsobrooks joins Tommy in studio to talk about why people need to pay close attention to the Maryland Senate race, and about getting to know Kamala Harris over the years. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. On today's show, with just hours until the first and maybe only presidential debate, Kamala Harris is out with a new interview, a new policy section on her website, and a new ad designed to troll Donald Trump.

Trump, meanwhile, is out with new threats to arrest his political opponents and incite violence. Then later you'll hear Tommy's interview with Maryland Democratic Senate candidate Angela Alsobrooks, who's facing a close race against popular Republican Governor Larry Hogan that could decide control of the Senate. Yeah, this one's going to sneak up on people. You should listen to it because it's a much closer race than we want it to be in Maryland. And if we do not win that seat, there is no chance of taking the Senate. Keeping the Senate. Too many close races everywhere.

But first, speaking of close races, you know what was fun to wake up to after our live show in Phoenix on Saturday night? A 5.40 AM message from Tommy that included a link to the latest New York Times Sienna poll showing Trump ahead of Kamala by 1.48 to 47%. Sorry I was up early.

5.40. 5.40. Oh. I'm gonna, I was up early. 540. 540. Ugh. It's too early. It's too early to be talking about politics. Yeah, it's never too early. That's our motto here. The vice president is still up two points

in the Times polling average, 49 to 47, and up 2.8 points in the 538 average, 47 to 44. We also got new battleground polls from CBS News slash YouGov showing Harris and Trump tied at 50% in Pennsylvania. Harris up 1 in Michigan 50-49 and up 2 in Wisconsin 51-49 which is also in line with the averages. Since then right before we start recording there's two new polls out of North Carolina that show her up 49.46 in both polls,

Survey USA and Quinnipiac. There's another Quinnipiac that has Trump up 49.45 in Georgia. There's a Morning Consult national poll that has Harris up 49.46. It's close. It's a tide race by all accounts. Right.

Everywhere. Everywhere. That's a lot of money all accounts. Right. Everywhere. Everywhere. That's a lot of money on polling. A lot of money on polling and it's all come, and it's also a lot of polling that could have a kind of a short expiration date on it since the biggest event of the campaign is gonna happen tonight. We all set the table for the debate,

knowing the debate is gonna change it. I don't know why we do this with polling. Now I think- Give us something to talk about. Right. I think in the case of the Times, they do a national poll before the debate so they can go back and re-interview the respondents

after the debate, which is a nice thing to do to see if there's actual movement. Right, or check in with a friend. Check in with a friend, right. How are you guys, really? Any insights from the, we talk about the Times poll here because, you know, it is the A plus rated poll. It's very good.

By the way, so is Survey USA. Did you guys know that? And what's funny is I remember them being made fun of as the worst in 2004. I think they've changed their methodology quite a bit. Yeah. But anyway, Times is the, you know, it's one of the top polls, so it gets a lot of discussion. It drives a lot of coverage, much to the consternation of some. But for us, we like to talk about it.

What'd you guys take from that poll? My first sort of overall reaction was I was surprised by how many people were either A, caught off guard or B, like rendered scared because of it. I really was because I honestly, I just sort of dismissed the national polling average. I don't really care about it. And that number looked a little bit off

from what other people have and off against their own poll polling average, I don't really care about it. And that number looked a little bit off from what other people have and off against their own poll of the swing states because the swing state numbers are more aligned with other polls that have showed Kamala Harris with a couple point edge in the national electorate. The odds that we're tied in all of these battlegrounds and down a point nationally makes me wonder

what's going on in New York, California, that kind of thing. So like, I kind of just put that aside and then dug into the battleground polls, which looked like what you would expect them to look like, a terrifyingly close race. Yeah, just so the polls that you were referring to from the New York Times and CNN,

a couple of weeks after the switch, I'm still calling it the switch. They did the Blue Wall States and Harris was up on Trump 50-46 and all of those. And then just a couple of weeks ago, they did the Sunbelt States and they were all tied at 48-48 across the average. They were different state to state,

but across the average of all states, they were tied at 48. That was just a few weeks ago. And I just don't believe this poll, like the electorate is ricocheting like this. Right, but that's why there's margins of error in all these polls and that's why you do averages and you throw them in the averages and you know, it's a fucking close race.

Tommy, I just whispered like Joe Biden, I know, it's a close race. And just noodling on a horrible world of jokes. Sunbelt and road polling. Whoa, boy. Sorry, I'm a wolf. So this time, we've been podcasting since Saturday at nine p.m.

Never stops. Give us the day off, someone. I've been talking to a lot of smart people who look at polling data all the time, public and private, and someone said to me recently, he thinks this race could be tighter than 2020 ended up being. So that's sort of the lay of the land for people.

Would not surprise me. And the bad news in this latest Times poll is that people do not think the economy is doing well. The Pew poll John mentioned found that only 25% of voters think the economy is in excellent or good shape. The rest do not. And Trump is a double digit lead, basically,

on Harris when it comes to the economy. So that's a problem. Trump's approval rating is annoyingly high. 60% of voters want a big change from Biden. So that's a real challenge. And significantly more voters think Kamala Harris is too liberal than think Trump is too conservative. So that's the bad news in the poll.

The good news is voters want more information about Kamala Harris, especially swing voters and voters where Biden was struggling the most. And Trump is basically getting all of his 2020 voters while Harris is getting about nine out of every 10 Biden 2020 voters, a little more than that. A little more, yeah. So those are 92%.

So those should be gettable. So she's got some space, room to run is basically the takeaway. On the too liberal, too conservative, one thing I thought about, cause I was digging into the CBS battleground states, they asked the questions, who's more mainstream and who's more extreme?

And Trump was much more extreme to people than Kamala Harris was, she was much more mainstream. I do wonder, cause when you dig into the cross tabs in New York Times, Zienena, like some of the people, like a third to a fourth of Kamala Harris's voters said that Donald Trump's not too conservative. Cause I do wonder if just in this era, we've like sort of gone beyond liberal and conservative,

or at least when it comes to Donald Trump and that Republican party, and you don't necessarily think of them all as conservative these days, you do think of them as extreme, right? Because it's like not like they have traditional conservative positions, the Republican party is totally different now.

So that could be one thing there. Yeah, I was digging into the CBS poll, Pennsylvania for a bit, I just was sort of like, let's see what's going on in there. And let's just look under the hood a little bit. And one thing that really struck me, so first of all, on this sort of mainstream versus extreme question, it's young versus old.

Young people view Trump as more extreme than older voters do. But it's interesting that millennials view Trump as being more extreme than even younger voters do. And- It's because we're the best generation. We're crushing it. Yeah, the second greatest generation generation as Tom Brokaw

will one day call us. But there was something that jumped out at me that I hadn't seen before, which is if you ask people if Trump is insulting or respectful towards Kamala Harris, overall, everybody says 75% insulting. Right. But that is true among 30 to 44 year olds,

45 to 64 year olds and 65 plus about 78, 79, 81. Under 30s, it's 45, 55. Yeah, cause they don't think anyone's insulting to anyone. They just- But that's really interesting. That's like interesting about- It's like everyone deserves to be insulted. But like it just, I just think that like

the effect of having grown up with Donald Trump in your face since you were a kid is having a real impact on that generation that I just thought was interesting. And one other thing that I was also struck by too is, if you ask Pennsylvania voters, most people do not think Trump would help the interest of women,

but 84% said he would help the interest of men, which is a really sort of strange result. That's sort of hard to explain when at the same time, 85% they go help the wealthy and most, it's like 50 50 on the middle class, which is way too high and worse on union members, which means that there's a bunch of people telling pollsters that Trump will be bad for the middle class, bad for unions, bad for the working class, but good for men, which is just a way of kind of saying that you think-

Like an abortion proxy question? Well, yes, and also just a kind of natural, like instinctive zero sum game that if women are more for Harris and if we all instinctively, including men, think that Trump is worse for women than Harris, then like, well, he must be better for men. Or like, there's something about the way he's appealing to men that's resonating with people.

Wouldn't it just be that people who don't like Trump think that he's for men and men who like Trump also think that he's for men? But I think both of those things are kind of interesting. And there's something about like speaking, like we're, so you look at this poll and there's this big gender gap. It's in every state, it's in this poll,

especially true among non-college men. And there's this way in which Trump is going around with this bravado and this bluster that's meant to appeal It's in this poll, especially true among non-college men. And there's this way in which Trump is going around with this bravado and this bluster that's meant to appeal to men and young men. And I feel like we're missing something around reminding men that one way you be strong is by standing up for women. There's a collective understanding

that Trump is worse for women. That is translating it to some sense in which he is better for men. It's not true. And we should be speaking to men about how Trump would be worse for them, but also that like standing up for women in this election it to some sense in which he is better for men. It's not true. And we should be speaking to men about how Trump would be worse for them, but also that like standing up for women in this election

is a manly and masculine thing to do. Wow. That's all I want. That's a lot from one cross tab. Yeah, that was complicated. I dug into it. You did? But like there's something,

there is just something about that jumped out at me. Like, oh, he's better for, where is that coming from? It's not coming from the policies, it's just coming from vibes. We should attack the vibes. Oh, it's total vibes, it's total vibes. I think, so like, New York Times, seeing a poll, if it had just been 48, 47 Harris,

which is like a couple of voters going the other way. The margin of error is 3%. No one would have like celebrated the poll, but everyone would have just sort of like shrugged and moved on. So that's just something to keep in mind. You know, it is in line with what a lot of the polling in the last couple of weeks has been telling us, I think,

which is, and Tommy, you mentioned this, she's got room to grow probably more than Donald Trump. She's also got more room to fall because she's just not as well known. A question, and we're gonna dig into this in a second, but they said, do you want to know more about, do you think you need to know more about the candidate? And many more voters said that they needed to know more about Kamala Harris. I think it was like one in three voters said that.

But those numbers were even higher among 18 to 29 year olds, black voters, Latino voters, and crucially, 2020 non-voters. So people who did not vote in 2020 all wanna know more. That to me is a big opportunity for Kamala Harris. And for the debate. And especially because those are voters that, traditional democratic constituencies, now maybe they're probably much more moderate

and less engaged than your typical black, Latino, young Democratic voter. But that does give her an opportunity, whereas I do think that Trump's support is more calcified, but it's also, you know, that's good and bad. And also a lot of voters in this poll have heard about Project 2025 and they do not like it. So those messaging efforts by Biden

and by all the TikTokers who were surfacing this stuff early on have worked. Yeah, the other piece of this too, I think people have been like, well, does that mean the Harris campaign made a mistake by not having a policy platform on their website sooner? Like I find that all pretty ridiculous. If you go back and look at old polls of previous elections,

it takes a while for people to stop telling pollsters that they need to know more. We're just, this campaign is abbreviated. This is the cost of having an abbreviated campaign. Yeah, I almost went back and then I realized I wasn't gonna go do this. But if you did like the amount of time between the candidate announcing their campaign

and when they had a full policy page up, I'm sure this broke records for being quick in terms of the heritage. This is why this conversation about why hasn't Kamala done interviews is so stupid. But think about, like, she hasn't been a candidate for more than, it's been less than two months. She had to plan a convention, pick a VP, do debate prep,

think, you know, lay out, decide on her policy platform. Like, she's going to do a bunch of interviews. I'm sure she'll do a ton of them after the debate prep, which by the way is gonna serve as interview prep as well. So it's just like, we're kind of fast forward and getting mad about something when she's barely been in the race. Like if we are having this conversation

at the end of September and she still hasn't done a bunch of interviews, I'll be right there criticizing that. Me too. Right, you know, it's just, it's silly to do it now. There's just, there hasn't been time and she's got to prep. The debate is the most important thing. Prepping for the debate is the most important thing. That should take precedence over any kind of interview request at this point.

It right. And right. She is doing interviews. It just, for some reason, the national media doesn't count like black radio interviews as, as counting in their little ledger of, you know, which national reporter will ask about, you ask about the narrative of the day. Yeah. All right. If you want to hear more about the Times poll from a true junkie, Dan did a special quick reaction episode of Polar Coaster that's out right now.

And if you're not a subscriber, you can fix that through Apple Podcasts or at crooked.com slash friends. Go be a subscriber if you get Dan's Polar Coaster and all kinds of other great benefits. So we mentioned that one of the big findings of the Time Santa poll is how a lot of voters say they need to know more about Harris and her plans. Seems like the Harris campaign knows that. In addition to the issues page that they just put up on her website, they released a new Battleground ad on Monday focused on the VP's plans to make housing more affordable, ban price gouging, and pass a middle class tax cut for 100 million Americans.

But she hasn't forgotten about Trump. The campaign is also out with a new ad that's running on Fox News, the Palm Beach Media Market where Trump lives, and the Philadelphia Media Market where Trump will be for the debate. It features the voices of former Trump officials Mike Pence, Defense Secretary Mark Esper, National Security Advisor John Bolton, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Mark Milley, take a listen. In 2016, Donald Trump said he would choose only the best people to work in his White House. Now those people have a warning for America. Trump is not fit to be president again. Anyone who puts themselves over the Constitution should never be president

of the United States. Do you think Trump can be trusted with the nation's secrets ever again? No. I mean it's just irresponsible action that places our service members at risk, places our nation's security at risk. Donald Trump will cause a lot of damage. We're not taking oath to a king or queen or to a tyrant or a dictator. We're not taking oath to a wannabe dictator. I had never heard that last one was Mark Milley. I hadn't either.

I had read it a million times, I never heard it. He sounds a little like Joe Biden yelling there. Joe Biden was in the room. The, I love a menacing string section. I didn't know if it was, I didn't know if it was like, sometimes it's like that cello, are we dealing with Viola here? But I loved it.

That video guy is getting so much work in this campaign. I know he's great. He's in every single Harris ad. And I think he was in the Biden ads too. What do you make of the Trump ad and the new policy focus? Seems like two different things there. I mean, this ad that we just heard, it's what you call a show-by.

This is more about driving a media narrative than actually persuading voters in battleground states. The battleground ads are about economic issues that you hear about in the polling, the cost of living, lowering grocery prices, lowering housing. They take a victory lap on insulin, et cetera. So I like the ad highlighting all the national security figures and Mike Pence hating Trump.

I think it might annoy him if he sees it, but mostly it's just to get people to talk about it. Tommy, you and I were talking about this. I was a little surprised that that's not a bigger buy because that seems to me like it would be a persuasive ad, not just for like decided people like us who don't need to be persuaded, but like, you know, some right leaning independents,

college educated, maybe undecided bulwark listeners. Like I feel like that would be a good ad for this. Are there undecided bulwark listeners? Oh yeah. No, I don't know. I think, yeah, I think by this way, if someone says to you, what do you think about Eric?

Should I date Eric? And you're like, no, all of Eric's ex hate his guts. And we tell you not to. And then you play an ad with the string section and all the exes are like. Yeah, it's, when we were playing it in the office and it felt like, oh, that's like a little bit like between that ad and the other ad about lies.

Like they wrote the little bit sort of outside of what we've been seeing, and feel more about, like, political narratives than anything, but then, it is very persuasive, and I just find myself just a little bit, sort of, confused. Like, are there people out there that are undecided, because they haven't fully, like, internalized

how they felt about Trump when he was president, the menace he felt, or are there people that, like, get this, understand this, but they've made a decision that he's better for the economy. I think it's about that. But so it's like, what is the value of this? Yeah. I don't know.

Well, we also didn't talk about this number in the Times-Yannepoel, but they asked, do you want to know more, not just about Kamala Harris, but Donald Trump, and the people who wanted to know more about Donald Trump, which was a smaller number than Harris, but the overwhelming majority of those voters said that they wanted specifically to know more

about his plans and policies, which I think points to another goal in this debate is to the extent that she talks about Donald Trump, she's got to talk more about the Project 2025 of it all, what he's gonna do in the future, because you need to get people to think, yeah, maybe he'll be better on the economy, at least in their opinion,

but he's too risky a choice because he might do X, Y, and Z. Yeah. There's a lot of people with fond, gauzy memories of Trump's economic record that feels soft to me. That just feels like people that can be reminded and gettable. And there's just a lot of them. There's just a lot of them in Pennsylvania.

There are a lot of them in Wisconsin. Yeah. I mean, I think you have to tell people, hey, in 2017, the only thing he got done through Congress was this gigantic tax cut for the richest people in the country. And then back in April, he had a fundraiser where he raised $50 million from the richest people he knew and he promised them that he would extend that tax cut.

That is the Trump record and that is what he would do in a second term. Yeah. Tax cuts for billionaires. And I think as opposed to relitigating the Trump term and people's memories of it, you do what Tommy just did, which is the reason he's, you think, we know he's gonna pass another tax cut for the riches because he did it before.

The reason we think he's gonna pass a national abortion ban is because he's the one who's appointed the three justices to do it and said he was proud of it. So Kamala also did some radio ahead of the debate. Here she is getting asked about how she'll handle Trump's craziness on the Ricky Smiley Morning Show, which is a syndicated drive time talk show. How do you plan to handle him? His attacks, his temperament, being on a stage with him? We have no idea what he might say. How are you prepared for that?

Well, you're right. I mean, he plays from this really old and tired playbook, right? Where there's no floor for him in terms of how low he will go. And we should be prepared for that. We should be prepared for the fact that he is not burdened by telling the truth. He tends to fight for himself, not for the American people. Those are the messages right there. What did you guys think of the answer? Not burdened by what has been? Yeah, I think it's probably honest. I mean, I think she's probably getting a lot of advice

that says no matter what happens, you have to stay calm and collected and let him look like he's the angry one. In part because I think as a woman, as a woman of color, she gets Les Leeway to be a huge asshole on stage and everyone's expecting it from him. So they maybe it will bother them, maybe not. But yeah, I mean, I think it's good advice.

I mean, the press loves to cover like the optics and the body language and sighing or saying lockbox too much. Or was that made up by SNL? No, he said lockbox. We were there. Maybe it was only once. Anyway. I also think even if she was a white guy,

that's not the political, uh, necessity to, to, to be tough. It is to like, she needs to let people know about herself. This is tough because I heard, I was listening to the daily today and they had Nate Cohn on to talk about the poll. And Nate Cohn said, if after the debate, we're talking about Kamala Harris and the debate was about Kamala Harris, then that is a win for Donald Trump. And if after the debate, we're talking about Donald Trump and what Donald Trump did, that's a win for Kamala Harris. And I'm not sure I agree with that. No, it's too simplistic.

Because I think that like, I get where I agree is that if she spends a lot of time talking about herself, which she should, and she spends a lot of time constantly defending herself from his attacks, then it could get a little messier and be about her and the coverage is about her and there's no like Donald Trump moments to talk about. So I get much like the last debate was all about Joe Biden. But I think if it's all about just one zinger and put down after another, but you know, where Kamala Harris takes on Trump and says, don't interrupt me while I'm speaking and all this kind of stuff.

And that gets like everyone on Twitter excited. I don't think that's necessarily a huge win for her either. No, I mean, you have to go in and lay a trap. You have a line where you're gonna make some attack maybe about his record, something he's done or said, or some policy, and you have in the can, a whole, you know, a TV ad, a social media campaign, a bunch of social, like, your surrogates, like, ready to drive that message the next

day. That's where I disagree with Nate. If the next day we're talking about something really terrible that Donald Trump did, I think that's beneficial for common layers. Yeah. I mean, I think what I like about those three lines, tired old playbook, has no floor, not burdened by the truth, they're actually all sentences you could deploy a version of after Trump rambles and launches several attacks

and then just say whatever you were gonna say anyway. Like those are all lines that take you from an attack into a positive message. There it goes again. Right, right, and like, you know, Trump goes on some meandering, rambling thing that none of us has a few awful lines that are untrue about immigration, about whatever issue.

She could take that, say that, that is the contrast that comes out of the debate. Great, if that's about how Kamala Harris responded to Trump's attacks, great. I think that if I was her team and if I was Kamala Harris, I'd wanna keep in mind contrast, contrast, contrast all the time so that every single thing he says, like, your borders are, it's the worst border in history. All the, you know, is an invasion.

They killed a bunch of Americans. Be like, okay, here's what you need to know. Joe Biden and I took an action to shut down the border and now we want to pass this plan that would be the best border security ever. And what do you want to do? You killed the plan, right? Because it's an issue for your campaign, right?

And when I'm president, I'm going to do X, Y, and Z. You just wanted this as a political issue, right? Because it's an issue for your campaign, right? And when I'm president, I'm gonna do X, Y, and Z. You just wanted this as a political issue, right? And you do this on every single issue, no matter what he says. So no surprise here, but Trump's rolling into the debate without driving any particular message, other than whatever grievance happens to be floating through his addled mind at a given moment.

On Saturday, Trump's been on the phone with the president and he's been talking about the president's political interests, and he's been talking the debate without driving any particular message other than whatever grievance happens to be floating through his addled mind at a given moment. On Saturday night, he truthed a long-screed promise in quote, long-term prison sentences for the many people he says are already at work trying to cheat on the election, which, he specified, includes quote, lawyers, political operatives, donors, illegal voters, and corrupt election officials. Those involved in unscrupulous behavior, he added,

will be sought out, caught, and prosecuted at levels, unfortunately, never seen before in our country. It is unfortunate. Then, at a rally in Wisconsin on Saturday, he brought up Colorado for some reason, saying this about immigration. The radicals headed up by a radical governor in Colorado that has no clue how to solve this

influx of crime into his state. And by the way, Colorado is one state. It's much worse in other states. But in Colorado, they've taken over. I mean, in Colorado, they're so brazen, they're taking over sections of the state. And, you know, getting them out will be a bloody story. and you know, getting them out will be a bloody story. Bloody story. So Tommy, you wanted to talk about what's going on with the Colorado thing. So you have to speak right wing media to understand what he's talking about there.

So this is about a story happening in Aurora, Colorado. Filling host for Steve Banner right now. Well, he's doing his time. I know. As he should. So there's a landlord in Aurora, Colorado. They claimed that a Venezuelan gang called Trende Aragua had taken over apartment buildings in the city.

They said they chased off the management and they started shaking down renters for money. There's also some videos online of like heavily armed guys at a door which is allegedly in this apartment building. So there is some truth to like violent people being in this building. The story was kind of like being talked about in local press in Colorado,

but then it blew up in the national news when the New York Post covered it. And they said they framed it as sleepy suburb overtaken by gangs. Now Aurora is basically part of like the Denver area, but whatever. And so the truth is Aurora police say they've identified 10 gang members and arrested six of them.

And the mayor of Denver says that Trendy Aragua has a much smaller presence in the city than like the Crips and the Bloods and other American gangs. And then also, you know, a bunch of local news outlets went to these buildings, they talked to people there, they went in and out, the cops are going in and out. They're clearly not like whatever controlled by gangs means. These apartment buildings are not controlled by gangs. What residents are really worried about is these, they're rented by slumlords. They're the utilities don't work.

Uh, no one's picking up the trash. Like the residents are worried about the people who. Own the buildings, not these gangs. So that's where this is coming from. And then the reason this has become a thing for Trump is you remember the Lake and Riley case, the woman who was murdered in Georgia, her killer was apparently connected to this gang somehow, which is based out of Venezuela. So Trump and these right-wing figures are folding this random pair of apartment buildings

in Colorado into their broader immigration and crime narrative to make it one big thing. And so again, it's just another reminder that it's this rolling conversation in right-wing media that we're not really always aware of, but Trump will probably bring it to the debate. And this story as dishonest and sort of confusing as it is, is just like the latest example of how immigration is not just something that's getting talked about all the time in border communities,

it is popping up all over the country in communities like Aurora, Colorado, because of stories like this and allegations about Venezuelan gangs. Or the conspiracy that was all over the news today that there are Haitian immigrants in Ohio town that are eating cats. Yeah.

Not true. Elon Musk pushing that one. Not a real, Elon Musk, JD Vance, Ted Cruz, Jim Jordan. I would not be surprised if that gets brought up at Tuesday nights. I think you two are in denial and the Rocky Mountains have fallen under South American Sharia law.

That is where we're at. Aurora has fallen. I found out about the, so I like was scrolling on TikTok as one does and someone pushing this conspiracy like just popped up in my feed like normally, like it was somebody saying, you know, the mainstream media is not talking about what's going on in Aurora, Colorado.

Took me like half an hour to untangle what this was. I mean, the political strategy here from Trump is he wants his deportation plans to be associated with, like I'm deporting people who are all violent criminals and they're overtaking our country, stuff like that. And not the idea that a real mass deportation effort with the fact that there are 15 to 20 million undocumented immigrants here would necessarily involved like a massive police force that as Trump has said

would be broader than police, would be national guard, military, knocking on doors, raiding workplaces, offices, and people, undocumented people who've been here for decades would be ripped apart from their families and deported to countries where many of them haven't been for decades, if not ever. And the entire operation would be just like terrifying and unbelievably destabilizing to the whole country. And I think that, you know, if it comes up, hopefully Kamala Harris will do that. The reason he talks about a bloody story too, is because there is this history of Trump

talking about immigration and whether it's using law enforcement, national guard, whether it's immigration, whether it's crime, is it always necessarily has to be violent, right? And so he's just like bringing up this violence again. Do you think there's, there's a pitch. Do you think there's value to in the debate, Kamala Harris saying, there is a bipartisan border bill.

We can sign it today. Bunch of Republicans support it, a bunch of Democrats support it. You talk about the board all the time. Will you join me in saying we ought to pass this bipartisan border bill? You told some of your friends to hold it up. That's a crap bill.

That's not gonna do anything. That's a fake bill. So you won't support it. You're Republican friends. I'll shut down the border. As soon as I get back in there. I'll shut down the border. As soon as I get back in there, I'll shut down the border. I had the border shut down when I was there too.

I'll do it again. Everyone knows that I'm gonna be stronger on the border than you. Come on. Yeah, because I think their argument with the bill was it allowed X number of asylum candidates per day to cross and he wants that number to be zero. It's all, she just got, I think she's just gonna say like,

this is my plan. We would have, you know, James Lankford, we had a really conservative Republican Senator. You're calling these Republican Senators saying they're against the border, all your Republican friends are against the border. I wouldn't mind a little bit of a fight about that. No, I wouldn't either.

So there was a lot of Twitter consternation that the long prison sentence threat for his political adversaries and the bloody story comments didn't get more coverage, though I read about them in just about every major media outlet, but you know, the essence of the criticism was if only more voters knew about these things, the race wouldn't be as close.

What do you guys think? I just, I feel like we have been through a decade of Donald Trump saying dangerous, unhinged, violent, vile, anti-democratic, unhinged, violent, vile, anti-democratic, un-American things. And here we are with his ceiling and his floor right where they've been. And maybe there's some truth to it, right?

Maybe there is some truth that there are people that aren't paying close enough attention, that are undecided, that if they knew about this, maybe it would help sway them. I don't know, but I just know that it's very hard to reach those people. And what a lot of those undecided voters are telling pollsters is not, oh, I need to know more about where Trump stands on prosecuting his enemies.

It's about inflation. It's about the economy. Like you pointed out these numbers. The numbers from Pennsylvania are bleak. 70% of people say the country's heading in the wrong direction. 70% of independents talk about the national and Pennsylvania economy as being very or somewhat bad. That is what is driving this election.

That is where our problem is. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think she had, the first priority of the debate is telling an economic story, talk about what you're gonna do to help people. I do think she can find some time to lay a trap and maybe highlight some of this violent stuff Something he said untrue social have an ad ready, you know backstop it with the big messaging push I mean that's less about the night of debate

Like it's sort of what people see then the next day spin and coverage and just making sure it's bad for him You can kind of do both. I also think you got to make it. I mean Hate to say this, but I don't think most voters are gonna be like, oh, Trump's gonna prosecute some democratic officials he doesn't like. I think there's a lot of people who don't think that's a good idea, right? But you gotta make it personal for people. And if she does bring it up, I think it's more like,

would you like to see army tanks in the streets of your community and the American military arresting people that Donald Trump just happens not to like? Is that the kind of country you want? Like there's a, there's painting a picture for people that I don't think Democrats have necessarily done yet. I also think like it goes to the point

we're making over and over again, which is like, look at what Donald Trump focuses on. Look at what he cares about. He's gonna talk about, he's gonna spend all his time talking about his enemies, going after his opponents, people that have insulted him, hurt his feelings. Revenge. You know, when I'm president,

you never have to worry about my feelings. You have to worry about his feelings, you'll never have to worry about mine. I'll just be fighting for you. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. Matt Gaetz and Tulsi Gabbard did a call with reporters on Monday, wild sentence to say, where they said that Trump's debate strategy,

because they've both been prepping him for the debate, Matt Gaetz and Tulsi Gabbard, they said that Trump's debate strategy is to make Harris Harris quote, own every Biden policy decision, as well as her earlier policy stances. Jonathan Chait wrote a piece today titled Kamala Harris should cut Joe Biden loose, where he basically argues that yes, that is going to be the debate strategy. And so she should just unburden herself from Joe Biden.

Do you guys think she can or should do that? Yeah, come on, pot save America. Yeah, we've been on burden here for quite some time. So first of all, two points about this. One, Tulsi Gabbard and Matt Gaetz prepping Trump for the debate really reminds me of the hyenas in a strategy session with Scar from The Lion King. It's like, what a vulgar and awful group of people.

How desperate is Tulsi to just be in the news still, to do this? A Democratic congresswoman did this. My second point, and more important point, what's funny is I was thinking about it as like, what does Kamala say substantively about Joe Biden? How do you strike that balance? And you see a lot of people making the same point,

which is we've made a lot of progress, there's more to do, here's forward, here's the contrast. And that's like the obvious frame everybody kind of recognizes is sort of where you're headed. But I was thinking about this, it's like, well, what do you get from going a little further? And what you get is a debate about whether or not Kamala Harris has done enough to distance herself

from Joe Biden. And I just don't think that that's the kind of conversation you wanna have coming out of the debate. Even before you get to what do you get from it, my question is, where do you actually distance yourself from a decision that he has made, right? We have been obviously critical of Joe Biden here, but people's main problems with Joe Biden,

voters main problems with Joe Biden is number one, his age, which of course. Number two, that the economy and inflation has not come down as quickly. We would also say that that is an unfair criticism of Joe Biden because he doesn't control this and the steps that he has taken have been quite good for people, middle-class people, working-class people, poor people. And so if she's asked about inflation in the economy, what decision that Joe Biden made does she point to

to say that she didn't agree with it? And I think the same is true on the border. So I don't actually agree with that in part because I actually think that we've made progress is more to do. Like I do not think saying something like this is a good idea, but like Joe Biden couldn't get it done, So I don't actually agree with that in part because I actually think that we've made progress as more to do. Like I do not think saying something like this is a good idea, but like Joe Biden couldn't get it done,

I will. There are steps- Can't get what done? Bringing down costs or passing a child tax credit or a host of other things. I don't think it's a good thing to say. I don't think it's a good rhetorical argument to make. Just saying like, if you wanted to say,

you could be critical of the Biden administration for not getting some of the steps done that you would do in the next few years. I don't think you can do that. I don't either. That's what I'm saying. I don't think you, but like, she can't say that Joe Biden couldn't pass this. I know, I don't think she can.

I don't think she should. I'm saying if you wanted to create distance from Joe Biden, I think that's what it would look like. I don't think it's a good thing to do. I think she's already doing it though. Because I mean, I think when pressed on the economy, what you would get from Biden is sort of a litany of all the things he's done and his accomplishments and how he deserves more credit for them.

She is already not doing that and saying, we've done X, but obviously there's much more work to do on costs, on housing, on this. And like 60% of voters want to change from Biden. I think, you know, like you're right. She can't, she's not gonna be like, Joe was wrong to get out of Afghanistan. I would have kept us there.

Like that's never gonna happen. But it is like tonal kind of emphasis thing where she, I think has just to be willing to be like, yeah, well, we didn't accomplish that as much as I would have liked to and we're gonna do more. Yeah, Afghanistan was the one that I was actually wondering about

is that it's not... It was obviously, like, a bungled exit. And he is the... Basically, on any foreign policy thing, he is the commander in chief, right? Like, I think on some of the legislative stuff, it's just not believable that she could create distance from herself on domestic policy,

because, like, she was in the room, and she was, like, negotiating out of that stuff. I'm wondering on the foreign policy stuff is there any way to create more room on some of this stuff or when she gets tagged with when he goes after her on Afghanistan which he probably will like what do you even say to that? I mean I just think saying I disagreed with Joe on Afghanistan is just a bad answer when there's a really good one sitting in front of you which is hey Donald Trump you negotiated the withdrawal from Afghanistan and your plan that you agreed to with the Taliban,

who you fucking invited to Camp David on 9-11, would have gotten us out earlier. Yeah, and I think, honestly, I think the way to create distance is just to not be defensive like Biden would be, because he just came at all of these criticisms just from an extreme stance, an extreme posture of defensiveness. And she, at least on the economy so far,

has not had that same stance. I do think that there's like some version of like, I'm proud to serve with Joe Biden. I'm proud of the progress we've made on Joe Biden. And I know sometimes you forget you're not debating Joe Biden, but I'm Kamala Harris. You know, I think something like that. That would do it.

All right, before we go to break, the three of us did go back and dissect hours of Kamala Harris debate footage in preparation for Tuesday night. And we have decided the most critical moment in the VP's political career took place during her 2016 Senate primary debate against Loretta Sanchez.

Here it is. Ms. Harris, you have a minute and a half. And. You have a minute and a half, Ms. Harris. And you have a minute and a half, Ms. Harris. So there's a clear difference between the candidates in this race. There definitely is. And I think the voters will make that decision. Now, for those of you who are just listening, highly recommend you check out the YouTube

version of the show where you will see that Loretta Sanchez in that pause inexplicably was dabbing for no good reason. Remember dabbing? Why did she do that? Why did she dab? And she went and like she, like, like, it was sort of a mic drop.

It was crazy. Do you wanna know why? Why? According to a 2016 report by the Sacramento Bee, Sanchez got the dabbing idea from her makeup artist's nine-year-old daughter. So. I was not prepared for that.

This little girl comes with her mom, the makeup artist, to Loretta Sanchez's house. She's doing her homework. They start chatting. Somehow her dance class had come up. I guess the little girl had just come from dance class. She shows Loretta Sanchez how to dab. Love it, could you dab for us for the YouTube server?

Absolutely not. Yeah, just one quick one. Nice try. And Loretta Sanchez said to the YouTube server? Absolutely not. Yeah, just one quick one. Nice try. And Loretta Sanchez said to the little girl, I am going to use that at my debate. So they practiced a couple times, she refined her dab, the rest is history. That's kinda sweet.

But in what context do you use a dab like that? Here's the context, I think we're all forgetting. As we know, context is important. What a big deal the dab was in 2015. Because it started in Atlanta, it came out of a hip hop scene there, but then Cam Newton. I have a history of fucking dabbing now.

Cam Newton, who is the star at Google things before the show. Give it a shot. Time on. The Carolina. Now we're on serial full-on dabbing. The Carolina Panthers quarterback, Cam Newton, who went to the Super Bowl that year,

he was the NFL MVP, he was dabbing all the time. Guys, you don't remember where Hillary Clinton dabbed on Ellen? Yeah, I do. Remember this? How did that go? Trap Queen? That was the song we were listening to.

Kiss of Death, the dab. Pokemon Go to the polls. Yeah, after she did it, Charlamagne tweeted, shaking my head, that's it, I'm going Bernie Sanders. That's how that went over. So, don't dab. You know what though, on a more serious note, Kamala Harris's reaction to the dab there, perfect. Yes.

Like that could be a reaction that she gives to a lot of what Donald Trump does. Yeah. Because honestly, Loretta Sanchez dabbing there, it's not that much crazier than some of the shit Donald Trump does. Not most of it, but not so of it. Just like, you're a normal person.

What would a normal person do in response to being in a room with Donald Trump? You'd just be like, what the fuck? Yeah, you wouldn't wind up and unleash some zinger, right, that puts him in his place. You'd just be like, what the fuck is wrong with this guy? I'm gonna call you dapping duck. Just the dab will do you, Donald.

Jesus. What else we got? But we're not in debate prep. When we come back from the break, you'll hear Tommy's conversation from last Thursday with Angela Ulsobrooks, our Senate nominee in Maryland, about why the Democrats Senate hopes may come down to a blue state.

Yikes. But before we get to the interview, two quick things. First, speaking of the debate, our Friends of the Pod Discord community is gonna be holding a subscriber live chat where you can process your debate feelings and anxieties with fellow Kirkwood listeners in real time. Isn't that fun?

Head to cricket.com slash friends to sign up for access and other subscriber exclusive content. Also, the first two episodes of Empire City, the untold origin story of the NYPD are out now. From Wondery, Cricket Media, and Push Black, Empire City digs into the hidden history of the country's largest police force. From its roots in slavery to the everyday people who resisted every step of the way. It's hosted by Peabody Award winner Chenjirai Kumunika,

and it's a must-listen for anyone who wants to understand the true origins of the badge and to contextualize the power it holds today. Just last week, the FBI raided the NYPD commissioner's home as part of a corruption investigation, so this story couldn't be more relevant as we continue to grapple with the issue of policing. New episodes drop every Monday. Follow Empire City on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen early and ad free by joining Wondry Plus and the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. When we come back, Angela also Brooks. Joining us today in studio in Los Angeles here is Prince George's County Executive

and Democratic nominee for Senate in Maryland, Angela Alsabrooks. Great to meet you. Thank you. So great to meet you and thank you so much for having me on the show. Honestly, it is truly our pleasure. And this is a very important race. I just want to sort of set the stage for why. So I bet listeners think Maryland, blue state, they think Democrats win Senate seats, they're

handily. And I want to make sure they understand that this year, this is a dogfight. This is a really tight race. I think the AARP poll in late August said it was a dead heat. And Democrats need this seat to have any hope of controlling the Senate. So folks got to pay attention and frankly do what you can to help out to make sure that we win your race. Your opponent is Maryland government, former Maryland governor Larry Hogan. He's got high name ID. He has worked hard to distance

himself from Donald Trump. I think we can talk about whether you think that's been successful or not. Yeah. But he's getting a big chunk of Democratic crossover voters. He's currently getting a bunch of independent voters in these polls. And the first question is just, how do you think we can win these Democrats and independents back? Well, I want to level, go back to what you said in the beginning, and that is to emphasize

again that the stakes in this election are so high. And unlike what we've seen in past years, Maryland is now like the center of this race. It is a race that Mitch McConnell said, Maryland, Montana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania were the states that he thought he had the best chance of flipping red. And so he picked this state, he recruited my opponent, who is a governor, two-term governor, who left office with an above 70% approval rating at the time. And well, you know what it is, and we can talk about that a bit, he had a Democratic legislature that basically kept him in line. We had a veto-proof

majority in the legislature. And so the case is that this is a very competitive race. As you mentioned just a couple of weeks ago, we are in a dead heat in the race. And it is one that will control the Senate, that will determine who controls the Senate at a time where we understand that we, the two views of America, couldn't be any more different. First of all, when we think about gun violence or reproductive freedom, when we think about gun violence or reproductive freedom, when we think about so many issues, we couldn't be any different.

And we are going to elect Kamala Harris as the President of the United States, and we absolutely must give her a majority in the Senate so that she can get things done, appoint Supreme Court justices. So this is a really, really important race. Yeah, it's a huge, huge race. And so I know I've heard you talk about how Larry Hogan,

you just mentioned he was kept in check by the legislature, a democratic legislature, but you said he wanted to do things to limit reproductive freedom, that he wanted to make it easier to get guns, long guns in particular. Can you just explain his record on those two issues? Yeah, let's talk about what he's already done. As governor, just two years ago, I think that's important.

In 2022, he vetoed abortion care legislation in the state of Maryland that would have expanded abortion access across the state. And when he was overridden, he withheld the funding until he went out of office and Governor Moore came into office. He's a person who at the beginning of this race in his primary election refused to say that he would codify in federal law, women's rights choose when he was questioned very directly this year about this issue.

He said, quote, I refuse to speculate on any piece of legislation. He has since then, conveniently after the primary said that he proclaimed himself, bless his heart, pro-choice now, but we already know what he's done and we know that no matter what he says in this moment, you know, I can't do it. Whatever he says, we know that he would empower a majority that has already declared war on a woman's right to choose, that he would be empowering Mitch McConnell and

Ted Cruz and, you know, they say Lindsey Graham would be over the judiciary so we know yeah it's terrible. Great. Sounds like the future I want. So you had a primary opponent who spent what 60 million dollars against you? 65 million dollars yes yes. Just lit it on fire. That must have been fun for him. I saw Larry Hogan has reserved nearly 8 million dollars of campaign ads already Presumably to run against you. You've reserved your campaign has reserved less than half a million so far This is very in the weeds But I'm just wondering like is that something you expect to ramp up soon

Is this because people are not focused enough on this race and not donating like what should we make of this? So two things one is the Republicans are motivated. They are dumping millions of dollars into this race and not donating, like what should we make of this? So two things. One is the Republicans are motivated. They are dumping millions of dollars into this race. He has a super PAC, a 10 million dollar super PAC, and we see the Republicans are really spending a lot of money. John Bolton just put up an ad for Larry Hogan. So we see that the Republicans are really investing. We are increasing our ad buys. We are on the air now. And we're going to continue to increase the amount of visibility of the campaign and communications of the campaign. And that's going to be really important to be able to not only talk about his record so that people understand what his record is. As I mentioned, vetoing abortion care legislation.

He also vetoed legislation that would have implemented simple waiting periods for long guns. He refused to sign legislation banning ghost guns. So he's a person who vetoed legislation that would have allowed for paid and family medical leave. He vetoed the legislation for $15 an hour. So this is a person whose policies are very in line with the Republicans. And so that's going to be important to show his record.

But it's also the most important thing people must know is that his election would give a majority to a Senate caucus that is at this point led by Donald Trump. That's what people need to understand is that handing over the majority to the Republicans now puts all these people in charge of the Senate, people who wanna take our country backwards.

It's so weird to me that Trump's former national security advisor, John Bolton, a man who seems to want to bomb or invade pretty much every country, I think, in the world, is running super PAC ads in Maryland. Why? They all have something in common, whether it's John Bolton, Larry Hogan, Donald Trump endorsed Larry Hogan, Mitch McConnell recruited him. They want to have control of the Senate. They understand that whoever has control controls the agenda.

That's what this is about. It's not that these guys are all necessarily friends, but they definitely are on the same team and they share the same goal, and that is to control the Senate and to have a majority there. Yeah. Let's talk about criminal justice reform. There's been kind of the country, and I think the Democratic Party has

had kind of a winding journey over the last four or five years. There was the horror of watching George Floyd be brutally murdered by police, followed by protests and calls for reform. That was then followed by, I think, increased concern about crime during the pandemic. And then President Biden has actually pushed for more police funding. So it's a bit head spinning.

And I know this debate over policing did not start in 2020, especially in Maryland, where there's been a long conversation. But many of the fundamental problems that emerged in the public, like national discourse after George Floyd's killing, they've not gone away. They're still racial bias. There's still too much police brutality. You have actually prosecuted criminals as a PG County State's attorney in the Senate.

You'd have a chance to write federal law. What changes to policing do you think still need to be accomplished? And how much of that do you think it's driven by local decision making versus federal law that you would work on in the Senate? Well, you know, I started my career because I believe that everybody deserves to live in a safe community. I still believe this is a basic civil right.

To be able to walk the streets safely, to sit on your front porch, I think that my mother should be able to go to the grocery store without fear of being knocked over the head. And so I started my career in 1997 as the first full-time domestic violence prosecutor to work in the office. I was the elected prosecutor in my county as well.

And what I can tell you is that there have been two choices given that I think are kind of false choices. The choice is whether we should have justice or freedom. I would say we have to have both. A system that is just means that a system where the laws apply equally to everyone, where we are policed with the humanity and dignity that we deserve, but that we also should have a system where you should be free. You should be free to not be concerned about carjackings and assaults.

And I think it's possible to do both. We have the George Floyd and Policing Act in the Senate that I will be supportive of. We also have to do the work of getting the assault weapons off the streets. We just now saw yet another heartbreaking incident. I'm the mother of a 19-year-old daughter. And I have to tell you, I am horrified.

And I think everyone felt horrified at watching yet again, you send your kids to school, you expect them to tell you, I am horrified. And I think everyone felt horrified at watching yet again. You send your kids to school, you expect them to be safe, not hiding up under the desk or some kind of drill they have to do. The teachers should be safe. So we have a lot of work to do. It is to make sure that our system is just, to make sure that we're holding people accountable who break the law, no matter who they are, police officers or civilians, but making sure

as well that we should have the right as Americans to be safe where we live. And that means we got to get these guns off the street. The number one way that children die in this country and it's absolutely unconscionable that we have done nothing about it is through gun violence, not by car accident or by illness. But it just makes me enraged to think. I was thinking today about the families. Can you imagine the young kids who are in school and they're killed because we have not removed these assault weapons, the kind that was used again in this school in Georgia?

We have the ghost guns that are on the street, and these Republicans, again, when we talk about having the majority in the Senate, they have not only appointed these Supreme Court justices, the same ones who overturned the bump stock decision, but they have no interest whatsoever in even doing what's sensible. And you know what, my opponent, again, is a person who, you know, he got an A minus from the NRA. So that would be putting the NRA in charge.

If we give over this Senate to the Republicans, it's like putting the NRA in charge. Guy, yeah, I mean, someone who's tried to project as a moderate to get an A minus from the NRA in charge. Yeah, yeah, I mean, someone who's tried to project as a moderate to get an A-minus from the NRA is pretty extreme. And yeah, I mean, that, I think, like, there's no more frustrating issue than the issue of gun violence,

especially these mass shootings in schools. I mean, yesterday, it was a 14-year-old who I believe shot, you know, other 14-year-olds, and teachers were hurt, and it's just a horrific incident. I mean, I have a 21-month-old daughter, and she started preschool this week, and even I've been thinking about it because of Sandy Hook and teachers were hurt and it's just a horrific incident. I mean, I have a 21 month old daughter and she started preschool this week

and even I've been thinking about it because of Sandy Hook and because of nothing, no horror seems off the table in the United States when it comes to gun violence. But also I never feel more cynical than I do when hearing about efforts in Congress to deal with gun violence because I know Republicans seem to block everything.

And I guess the, which leads me to a question, which is usually they use the filibuster, Republicans do, to block all meaningful legislation in the US Senate. Would you support getting rid of or reforming the filibuster to try to make it so Kamala Harris can enact her agenda? Oh, absolutely. You know, we think about the filibuster I believe the numbers go something like 1964 to say 2008 the filibuster was used maybe fewer than

60 times and then from 2008 until now it's been used over 600 times mostly to block civil rights legislation Yeah, we want we want the John Lewis For the People Act. We want the For the People Act. We want a number of pieces of legislation that all have been blocked using this filibuster. So I think we absolutely are going to have to reform the filibuster and I think we're also gonna have to do something about the Supreme Court.

Yeah. I mean, it is outrageous and I agree with reforming the Supreme Court as well. Love that. A few months ago I saw an interview you did with WJLA, which is a Sinclair-owned local TV station in Washington. You were asked about the situation in Gaza. You talked about the need to get more aid into Gaza, to get a ceasefire deal that brings

back the hostages, and ultimately to achieve a two-state solution in the creation of a Palestinian state. But you also added that you do not believe that Israeli Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu is the right partner for achieving a two-state solution. And I just wanna put my cards on the table and say I could not agree more. And I'm wondering how that belief might translate into policy if you're a US Senator.

Does that mean you're open to withholding or conditioning US military aid to Israel as a tool to pressure the government into talks around? A two-state solution or how are you thinking about this? You know, I think first of all, let me just say that I think everyone agrees in this moment The number one thing that has to happen as we looked at the people who were killed just last week is we got to get the hostages home We got to get the hostages home. We have to get to a ceasefire and the hostages home. We got to get the hostages home. We have to get to a ceasefire. And as I've mentioned before, I think that the United States and everyone around the world has an

affirmative obligation to make sure that we are eliminating the suffering that is happening with the Palestinians in Gaza. And a two-state solution is where I believe we should be focused. That's what tomorrow should look like, is we should be working to have peace and security in Israel and peace, security and self-determination for the Palestinians in Gaza. I believe I support the US-Israeli relationship and I support Israel's right to not only defend itself, but I think they ought to have the means to defend itself as well. And I, again, believe that that is not in conflict with the idea that ultimately the aim and the hope is for peace. That is what I believe we ought to be working toward, is deescalating conflict and making

sure, again, that we have peace and security in Israel and we should have peace, security and self-determination for the Palestinians in Gaza. But, I mean, if you think Netanyahu has been an impediment to that, I mean, I guess is our only chance just to kind of wait for the government to collapse in a new election. Is it sort of out of our hands? Is that? Well, you know what? I think we are seeing now that the people of Israel are also saying that they're very

concerned about the form of leadership. I think that they have a democracy and they make a decision about their leaders. I agree with that. But I think we do need leaders who believe...we need a good partner. If we are to go to a two-state solution, I absolutely believe that. But, you know, Israel's a democracy. They get to choose their own leaders. And I understand that. And I believe that, again, it appears to me that there is growing discontentment with the form of leadership that he has demonstrated. And again, we have to focus first on getting those hostages home and we got to get to a ceasefire. Yeah. You've known Kamala Harris for 14 years, I believe. I have. Can you tell the story of like how you guys became friends? And then is there

something you know about her that you feel like is just not talked about or doesn't get coverage that the rest of the country should know? Well, I met her in two, well, I learned about her in 2009. So I was reading a magazine and they were talking about this incredible woman who was a DA who was using all of these new ideas to keep her community safe. Specifically, I was reading about back on track in her Smart on Crime book. And I was so impressed with it that I was running for state's attorney at the time. I was talking to my constituents all about it, about how I thought we could replicate some of her plans and projects. And when I won the election two days later,

I got a call and the person said, Hi, it's Kamala Harris. Really? So she said, tell me what I can do to help. And I told her I wanted to come out to California, study her program and came out here and she put all the stakeholders together for me. She had won, attorney general went by and met with her. But I met with the stakeholders, the judges and everyone. I did replicate that program. And since then, she's really been a friend.

I was there, I came to California when she ran for Senate. She said, you should come out and ride the bus with me the weekend before my primary and do some surrogate speaking. So I did that. I came out to California, rode the bus with her and Doug, and Mayor Bass was on the bus at the time. And then, you know, was there the day she was sworn in

and she came over to help me when I ran for County Executive. She endorsed in and she came over to help me when I ran for county executive. She endorsed me and she met me to go point by point on the legal path over some of what we would discuss in the campaign. And she's just been a friend since then, you know, she's endorsed me in this race. She gives really excellent advice. I guess the thing I'd say about her that always stands out when I was on that bus, the weekend before her primary

for Senate, it occurs to me that she was not talking about herself, not once. I don't think I've ever been in a conversation with her where she goes and she, most people may be talking about their race, talking about themselves. She's always talking about others. Tell me about your program. Do you have the right people in place?

What are you doing? She is the consummate leader. She's the consummate leader. She's the consummate leader. Why do you think she cold called you like that? Right, I mean, you're not, look, the political cynic, if you were like an Iowa state rep, people would say, aha, this was the long game to run for president.

You know, you're in Maryland, like she just picked up the phone and called you? Yeah, as it turns out, there are a whole lot of us who she mentors in the same way. I think she is a natural leader and she is a person who very sincerely cares about other people. She called me and you know no one would have ever known. No one has known the other times that she's called and reached out to say I'm just checking on you. Tell me how

you're doing. Tell me what's going on. I mean she she has done that and as it turns out I've now learned others. know you you saw the Congresswoman Jasmine who came out and said that the vice president wiped her tears at a meeting this is a person who is not only compassionate and maybe that's the thing that people don't get to see as often she's compassionate but she's also a deeply principled person a deeply principled person but she not for fan fare but she is a person who is always mentoring, always guiding. And you know, I think that's what's going to make her a really

great president. She's a very, very thoughtful person, but also just deeply principled person. And I think, think about that, a leader who, you know, and we've had a wonderful president in Joe Biden, but I think our country deserves to continue to have leaders who have integrity, leaders who are decent. We can never return to the other guy, but I think Kamala's gonna make a really, really, really excellent president.

Does she ever cook for you? No, she's never cooked for me. I'll gotta tell you a funny story. He's speaking of cooking. So she invited me to her home for the holidays. And you know- What year was this? This was two years,

let's see, not this past year, the year before I took my daughter to the vice president's residence. Cool. And she, my daughter, and now remember that part, teenager. So we go and they have it so that you come around, you take the photo. Yeah.

And I'm thinking this girl, meaning my daughter, is gonna stand up there and take the photo, right? And she jumps back instead and says, Oh my goodness, do you know what they're saying about you on Tik TOK? And I'm thinking, Oh, Oh my God, like really? Whoa. Where are we going here, lady? And she said, they said, your hair looks amazing. If your silk press is right on. And I'm like so embarrassed. I'm like, oh my God.

But the vice president sprung to action. She loves kids. She right away said, oh my gosh, really? Is this what they're saying? Maybe I should have you on my comps team. Then she tells me move aside so she can take pictures with Alex and they're posing and the whole. But I'm like horrified thinking this is not what we discussed.

We're not going to come up here and talk. When she said the words TikTok and what they're saying, I'm thinking, oh no. That's not going to be good. Right. Whoa. Yes. I love that.

I love that. You hear a lot of stories like that. OK, some lighter stuff. So I'm from Massachusetts. I married a woman from Maryland. So her parents live out. Here, here. Yeah.

So they live out east. They're in Easton. And whenever I visit, we end up picking crabs. And I just want to start by saying, I hit the in-law lottery. They're like the best people ever. Hannah's sisters are the best. But I don't get the crab thing.

Maybe I'm not good at it, but I feel like you start with this huge pile of crabs in front of you, like stack of corpses, and you end up hungry unless you eat like salads. You know what, I understand the misunderstanding here. You know what, you think crabs are about eating. Right. No. What's it about?

It's like, it's a thing, it's like a sport almost. You know, it's like, it is an activity that we do together as families. That's what binds us. Now, I like the taste of crabs. The whole day. But if you come to it expecting that it is, you're there because it's a meal.

No. Yeah. Oh. Just gotta do the corn. When you go back to the family, you have to tell them now, you know, I get it. We're like here bonding. It's a bonding experience. You, you know, you pick the crabs and you talk.

Okay. That's what it is. That's true. But it's real. My daughter loved it. She kept saying, crabby time. She was yelling, crabby time, crabby time. She was very excited.

She's our girl. 21 months old. She's our girl. Picking up the mallet, whacking away. It was fun. Okay, it was a good lesson. Last question, Baltimore Ravens or Washington commanders? I have to tell you the Washington commanders

are in Prince George's County where I live. I do support the Ravens as well. And we want the commanders to stay in Maryland. And I've been a commander's fan like my whole life. Are they, they got, Dan Snyder's gone though, right? Is there a risk of them leaving now? You know what? We've done a lot of work.

We've invested about, we have $400 million that we're investing in the areas around the field there. And we expect that they may stay there. We think that we are offering a lot. Governor Moore says he's also really committed to keeping the team. We want the two teams to be in Maryland. So we're committed to it and we're feeling good. You know, my very good friend is Mariel Bowser. She's making plans on the

other side, but we're planning to keep them in Maryland. Keep them in Maryland. Yes. I saw Governor Moore put on actual pads in practice with the Maryland football team. Is that something he does a lot? Well, we say to that, Governor Yonkin over in Virginia, eat your heart out. Like Maryland, we're lucky, right? We, we, we have a really great governor who, you know, loves people and, you know, and it shows. Doesn't skip arm day. You could tell, you could tell that. Yeah.

He was looking stacked. But you know what he also did? He was there side by side with us and we wrestled away the FBI headquarters from Virginia. That's a, that's been a huge fight, right? It's a huge fight that we won and we wrestled away the FBI headquarters from Virginia. That's a huge fight, right? It's a huge fight that we won and we're going to fight to continue to keep the FBI national headquarters plans in Maryland. I really like the trash talk between Maryland and Virginia.

Poor DC is just stuck in the middle, but you guys, you battle it out. Well, Virginians said we had an unfair advantage because we had Governor Moore and they have Yonkin. You know, we need more Democrats. I mean, I think that's just the way this goes. We make things happen. Yeah, that's not your problem. That's what I say to that.

County Executive, also Brooks, thank you so much for being here. How can people support your race if they want to get involved? AngelaAlsoBrooks.com and thank you so much for having me. Everybody please go out. This is a really important race. Is one we can't phone in. Have to win this. We have to win it. have to win have to have to have to win it So if you're thinking about donating and you know, it's calm. Yep, do it soon. Yes. Thank you. Thank you

That's our show for today the debate is tonight Hmm, who's ready? I Don't think I am me neither. I'm excited. Hey, we're going I feel better about this one than the last one Tonight is tonight. Mm. Who's ready? I don't think I am. Me neither. I'm excited. Hey, we're going to, I feel better about this one than the last one.

Yeah, that's all I was gonna say. Knock on wood. Hard not to. Don't forget to check out the subscriber live chat and then the three of us and Dan. You know it's a big night when Dan's here. Dan's in town. We'll record the Wednesday pod right afterward.

That'll be in your feed Wednesday morning. Fingers crossed. Prayers up. Do your dabs. Talk to everybody soon. If you want to get ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and more, consider joining our Friends of the Pod subscription community at Cricut.com slash Friends.

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