Pod Save America - On the Ground in Iowa: The Race for Second Place

Episode Date: January 12, 2024

Less than two weeks before the caucuses, Tommy heads to Iowa to spend a few days going to campaign events, talking with voters, and taking the pulse of the race for second place. He attends two Ron DeSantis events—and learns the Florida governor is as boring as everyone says—interviews Vivek Ramaswamy on his campaign bus, and sneaks into a Nikki Haley event. With just a few days of campaigning to go, do any of these candidates have the momentum to beat expectations in Iowa and defeat Donald Trump? For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

We're in Des Moines. It's great here. We're excited. We're driving to a Ron DeSantis event where we may or may not get let in. We're heading to Waukee, which is kind of a western suburb of Des Moines. We're going to go see if Ron DeSantis will let us into his little caucus event. What do you predict will happen? I predict that a stuffy Republican staffer in khakis who looks uncomfortably like me will deny us entry once we tell them we're from the crooked media, which in hindsight was not, you know, the smartest name for a company if you want to go to events like this. I'm Tommy Vitor, and I'm on the ground in Iowa. This is episode two, the race for second place. In the first episode of this series, we talked about the inevitability

problem. The polls have Donald Trump so far ahead of everyone else that it feels like it's not a question of if, but when he's going to win the nomination. The other candidates seem to have all but given up on the idea of winning Iowa, and instead of taking on Trump directly, have spent the bulk of the campaign attacking each other, battling it out for silver. On January 15th, we will find out for sure. But I wanted to get a firsthand look at the campaign frenzy that happens in the last few weeks before caucus day, when many of Iowa's voters are finally making up their minds. So last week, I spent three days on the campaign trail, along with two producers, Caroline and Lacey. While we were there, Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy, and Donald Trump were crisscrossing

Iowa, making their case to anyone who would listen. We went to as many events as we could to see if the traditional strategy of holding town hall meetings, taking questions, and shaking as many hands as possible could still move the needle. It was kind of a bizarro homecoming for me. Iowa is a place I spent a lot of time and I really love. Our hotel was walking distance from my old apartment where I lived back in 2007 when I was working for the Obama campaign. It was kind of a time warp, an unsettling one. We went to a lot of the same communities I visited with Obama. We saw a bunch of familiar faces, but this time, instead of hearing about hope and change, the candidates were offering a much darker vision of the country. Our first stop on our first day was a community

center in Waukee, Iowa, in Dallas County. This was the first of 12 events DeSantis had planned over the next five days. He was one of the candidates who'd completed a full Grassley, which is when you go to all 99 counties in the state. It's a classic example of what insiders call retail politics. That is, face-to-face campaigning where you're really selling your own candidacy voter by voter. The traditional view is that doing retail politics is how you win in the early states, especially in Iowa. When I was with Obama in 2007, 2008 in Iowa,

by the end of the caucuses, we were doing four or five, six events a day, crisscrossing the state. I think we went to 73 counties total out of 99. It's tough. I mean, I don't know how these candidates keep their energy up for five events. I mean, imagine giving five speeches, doing five Q and A's, and then having to be nice to every single person that talked to you. In the nicest state in America. In the nicest state on the planet. So you have to be nice. You have to be nice. That element of it, that like interpersonal political element has certainly proven to be Ron DeSantis' great weakness. You know, the man can't seem to smile normally, let alone, like, have a normal interaction.

So, you know, maybe doing five events a day is a bad idea if you're Ron DeSantis and you have kind of a repellent personality. We'll find out. ...just to commit to voting at our caucus, but making sure that you bring your friends... The Waukee Community Center was a small, stuffy room with about 30 or 40 mostly retirees

packed in at tables and a couple dozen press. We walked in as concerned citizens because DeSantis' campaign never responded to our request for media credentials. Our governor from Florida, Ron DeSantis, is here to make sure my district is held accountable. Thanks, boss. Thanks so much, members. God, thank you.

Good morning. Great to see you all. Great to be back in Dallas County. Happy New Year. Did y'all have a good one? DeSantis spoke for about 40 minutes straight in his signature monotone. We need to reverse the decline of this country.

We need a new birth of freedom all throughout the land, and we need to usher in a revival of the American spirit. To need a new birth of freedom all throughout the land, and we need to usher in a revival of the American spirit. To borrow a Trump insult, DeSantis' speech was pretty low energy. Even his attempt at a stirring close fell flat. But the most interesting part of these things is usually the Q&A. And at this event, an older gentleman using a walker raised his hand. an older gentleman using a walker, raised his hand. Yes, sir. Can I be honest with you?

Okay, so I think a lot of us voted for Trump. And I have a couple questions. For one, why haven't you gone directly after him? Polls are down. If you couldn't hear that, he said, a lot of us voted for Trump. Why haven't you gone directly after him? What do you mean by going directly after him? I mean, you're, in my viewpoint, you're going pretty soft on him.

But what do you think, so, you know, because we, I've articulated all the differences time and time again on the campaign trail. I know, that's just not how I roll. Okay, good. Because I'm in time again on the campaign trail. I know. That's just not how I roll. Okay. Good. But look at the last vote.

If Trump had kept his mouth shut for the four years that he was president, he would have won on a landslide. I mean, the guy has no class in a lot of different ways. This DeSantis supporter was asking a question that we've asked countless times on Pod Save America. Ron DeSantis is losing to Donald Trump in Iowa by about 30 points. How is he going to close that gap if he won't attack Trump or draw any kind of real contrast? For months, DeSantis has refused to give Republicans a reason to walk away from the former president. And he ends up looking paralyzed by his fear of upsetting the MAGA base. The result is a campaign that just hasn't been able to get off the ground.

We went to two DeSantis events in Iowa and we talked to a handful of people who had come out to see him. A few of them genuinely liked what he had to say. Have you made up your mind? I absolutely have. I am a Ron DeSantis fan. Yeah, through and through. You know that he's going to take some of his Florida experience and take it to the White House and get it done.

And that's what we're lacking. I mean, it's floundering a lot. So I like what he said. We also talked with several who were still unconvinced. What have you thought about the event? It was interesting. I don't know. My wife and I are going to have a long talk about it

and figure it out from there. Can I ask you what you thought of the meeting? Good meeting, yeah. Is the governor someone you're going to caucus for? Undecided yet, so. What's still up in the air for you? I want to win. But there was one conversation we had that really summed it all up.

We spoke with a father and son outside DeSantis' event in Cumming, Iowa, next to a loud idling bus. DeSantis has better policy, a lot better things, but I just don't think he's as charismatic as Trump. And Trump can just come to a place like Iowa and just really, really rile it up. And here it just seemed it was kind of just a slow talk and slow burner. And he has good things to say, but it it's just it's not as captivating as trump can be you know trump has just viral moments every time he's anywhere yeah and i just don't get the same a little low energy huh yep but but i'll tell you i'm a lifelong republican seen with ronald reagan in the bushes i will never vote for Donald Trump.

I haven't the last two times and I won't this time. What did he do that turned you off? I will never do business with or vote with somebody I don't trust. Good rule of thumb. Yes, me. Do you feel the same way?

No. Are we going to split in the family? That's the way it goes. Yeah. No one we talked to had an issue with DeSantis' policies. They liked what he was saying. But DeSantis' events are just boring. He's not firing people up.

He's not inspiring the audience with his vision for the future. No one seems to be having fun, Ron DeSantis included. So that leaves DeSantis with the Republican voters who refuse to vote for Trump and haven't yet decided on one of the other candidates. And it's unclear how big that pool of voters is. The narrative around DeSantis' campaign has been pretty grim lately.

There was one story a few weeks ago that quoted a staffer saying they were at the point in the campaign where they were just trying to, quote, make the patient comfortable while they waited for the end to come. Never back down, the super PAC running DeSantis' field operation has also been in chaos. Tons of infighting, firings and resignations, tens of millions of dollars spent on door knocking, and yet DeSantis' poll numbers have been stuck between 15 to 20 percent for months. I even heard stories about paid canvassers knocking on doors and telling people they were actually planning to vote for Trump. It's been that bad.

At the Iowa event I went to, DeSantis looked like he didn't want to be there. As the kids say, the guy's got no riz. So, if DeSantis isn't breaking through, is anyone else? After the break, we board Vivek Ramaswamy's campaign bus to find out. After watching DeSantis, we drove back to Des Moines for a Vivek Ramaswamy event. Ramaswamy is running, as far as I can tell, a completely unprecedented Iowa caucus campaign. He's done a double Grassley, meaning he's visited every county in Iowa at least twice. I heard him tell a crowd that he will have done 330 events in Iowa in the last year, more than all the other candidates combined.

I was really interested to see who showed up to a Ramaswamy event. His campaign had a moment back in the summer. He started placing third in some national polls. He was omnipresent in the media. But that boomlet seems to have died down after some, frankly, obnoxious debate performances. ...while her own daughter

was actually using the app for a long time, so you might want to take care of your family first. Leave my daughter out of your voice. And lately, Ramaswamy's campaign has taken on an even more conspiratorial tone. We'd reached out to the campaigns before our trip out to Iowa, and almost all of them ignored

us. But Ramaswamy's people were nice, responsive, and open to an interview. We met up with the campaign at a holiday inn near the Des Moines airport. They rented out a hotel ballroom with a loud scarlet and black carpet for a midday town hall meeting. About a hundred or so people came out to see him, and the crowd skewed quite a bit younger than the folks who came to DeSantis' Waukee event. How many of y'all believe our country needs saving? Yes! Yes! Ramaswamy and his family walked through the crowd to the stage. Apoorva, his wife, said a few words, and then he made his case. Top question I got yesterday is,

if you make a choice, why you, not Trump? That's a fair question to ask. Slogan of this campaign is truth, so I'm not going to sugarcoat this for you, and I don't enjoy saying it. If you think they're going to let this man get anywhere near that White House again, I'm going to ask you to open your eyes.

His speech was filled with oblique references to stuff you'd find on alt-right message boards. And he hit on some of his favorite talking points. The climate hoax, the fact that we're a nation of sheep, government corruption. During the Q&A, one woman in the audience actually apologized to Ramaswamy for asking a question about climate change at a previous event. I went home and I did my research, so I do owe you an apology because it absolutely is a hoax. I appreciate you. I'll take an apology from the media. After the event, we stopped one young voter.

I'm still a little bit tied on him versus Kennedy because I've been a longtime Kennedy supporter. Interesting. So it's a little bit tough. Is vaccine safety your primary issue? That's my primary issue. That and communist China. Those are my top two.

She was trying to decide whether to caucus for Ramaswamy or to back renowned anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who is running as an independent and not competing in Iowa, by the way. So, this woman was not your typical Republican caucus goer. Ramaswamy calls himself a free speech absolutist, and the backdrop at all of his events says truth in big, bold lettering. backdrop at all of his events says truth in big bold lettering. I watched his interview with Alex Jones on my flight out to Iowa, and I wanted to ask Ramaswamy about the tension between giving a liar like Alex Jones a platform while also saying you value the truth. After the Des Moines event, they brought us onto Ramaswamy's bus for the ride over to Newton, Iowa. His staff couldn't have been nicer. The candidate, however, seemed less than thrilled

that he had to talk with me. But to his credit, he gave us about 20 minutes, so we dove right in. So anybody who tells you that they know what's going to happen this year, I think is probably deluding themselves. So I heard you say that at the event today, too, like they are going to try to prevent Trump. They're not going to let Trump get to the election day. Who is they there? Look at the collective they of the people who have taken whatever steps they are going to try to prevent Trump. They're not going to let Trump get to the election day. Who is they there? Look at the collective they of the people who have taken whatever steps they are. Talking about state-level prosecutors, federal prosecutors, Supreme Courts comprised of elected judges in places like Colorado,

secretaries of state in places like Maine, and I think all of whom are part of a broader establishment in this country, a mega donor class in both parties, the same people paying for lawsuits to keep Donald Trump off the ballot and lawsuits against Trump are the same ones among the largest super PAC donors to Nikki Haley. I think that this is a broader bipartisan establishment that has an anaphylactic reaction to this man. Are they working together? Is this some grand conspiracy to keep him off? There's different components? incentives in a system, collective incentives that are hiding in plain sight. So I don't think you have to be Inspector Crusoe to believe that the system is inventing legal theories on the fly for

five simultaneous cases combined with extra constitutional means of removing somebody from a ballot outside of the judicial system itself. I mean, do you think it's a novel legal theory to say you can't take classified information and keep it in the bathroom at your private club? That's not a novel legal theory if you're not the president of the United States. If you're the president of the United States, there's a law called the Presidential Records Act. It doesn't govern classified information. Actually, just do your homework. The Presidential Records Act absolutely—

The Presidential Records Act literally— I'm sorry. The Presidential Records Act, just for a second for the sake of your audience, literally covers classified documents. It is literally within the scope of what the Presidential Records Act encompasses. I a second for the sake of your audience, literally covers classified documents. It is literally within the scope of what the Presidential Records Act encompasses. I don't want to believe it. I mean, I worked on the national security staff. I had security clearance.

The Presidential Records Act does not allow you to take classified information as an ex-president to your golf club stored in an unsecured place. No, but it does allow the president to declassify. The sole, and the Supreme Court's held this in the Clint Sock drawer case. There's no evidence that to declassify. The sole, and the Supreme Court's held this in the Clint Sock drawer case, otherwise, but again, the details. There's no evidence that he declassified anything. I'm jumping around a little bit because I know you are pressed for time, and I appreciate you making time for us. I'm very worried about polarization in this country

and what feels like the ratcheting up of rhetoric that you hear in political discourse, people talking about enemies, we're at war, etc. I know I've heard you talk about similar concerns, but then I was watching your event on December 23rd. You said, we're in the middle of a war

in this country. It's not some foreign war. It's a war right here on our own soil between those of us who love the United States of America and those of us who hate this country

and want it to cease to exist. I think a fringe minority is what I've described that as. Yeah. So who? I think it's a fringe minority. I think a fringe minority is what I've described that as. Yeah. I think it's a fringe minority. I think it's less than about 10% of this country. And so I share your concerns about polarization. I think the path to national unity, though,

is not going to come from some fake, superficial, surface-level rhetorical shift. I don't think so. superficial surface level rhetorical shift. I don't think so. I think it's going to come by actually all of us re-embracing, or at least 90% of us re-embracing the radical ideals of the American Revolution, actually. By telling people they're at war with their fellow countrymen, does that help? I think the war, I think it helps to see with clarity. And yes, I do think it's a kind of cold, cultural civil war in this country. I think it's not between Republicans and Democrats. I think it is between those who love this country and a fringe minority who wishes to apologize for the existence of our nation. I think we're ceasing to exist by the day.

Really? Yes, I do, actually. I feel like we're kicking ass and taking names all over the world. Are we, though? What do you think George Washington would say? kicking ass and taking names all over the world. Are we, though? What do you think George Washington would say if we had a candidate for U.S. president

who a given Secretary of State on a given day woke up and just decided he was eliminated from the ballot? I think he'd say, why do you guys all have teeth and I have these weird wooden things? Yeah, he might say that, too. He might say that first. I don't know what he would say.

I think that we are slowly on a path to ceasing to exist right now unless we turn the tide we're on. And by ceasing to exist, I mean, sure, we have a geographic space where we have our, as I said at the last speech, different shades of melanin, and walk in a geographic space and call on ourselves a country and doing what our smartphones tell us to do on a given day.

It's a dark vision of the future. Well, it's not a vision of the future. It's an indictment of the present. But I think that my vision for the future is we still can be a country that's bound by that common purpose. That's what the United States of America was founded on. It was founded on our essential humanity. The things that makes us different than those two-legged or four-legged or any eight-legged higher mammals is that we can believe in something bigger than ourselves,

that we can believe in those shared ideals of 1776. And those are radical ideals. Those are not soft, moderate, papered over, friendly, sounding, pleasant, landing on the ear ideals. The idea that you get to speak your mind as long as I get to in return, that is a radical idea that for most of American history, most of global history was laughable. And here's the thing. I think many of the managerial class in the United States now find that idea laughable too. So in some sense, they're not the anomaly. They're the norm for most of human history. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is where and when that overlaps with the other word on

your placards, which is truth. And when I hear you say January 6th was an inside job, I don't think that's the truth. Have you heard me say the realities of... I've heard you talk about why there's federal agents outside and some people might have been in traps. It's looking increasingly like January 6th was the product of entrapment. I think you're right to talk about Watergate or the Iraq War,

but that still doesn't mean that thousands of people traipse through the Capitol because the FBI led them in there. But I didn't say the FBI led them in there. That's not how entrapment plays out. That's why I said read G-Man. This is not how the FBI does it. What we actually need to do is take off the partisan goggles and just ask ourselves what

is, yes, this campaign slogan of ours. What is the truth? Which is that Donald Trump lost an election and has lied about it ever since. And that they suppressed the Hunter Biden laptop story on the eve of that election. I mean, what does that do? They look at polling data afterwards. It's truth. That's it. Many independents would have changed their mind on the eve of that election. I mean, what does that do? They look at polling data afterwards. It's truth. That said, many independents would have changed their mind on the eve of an election.

I mean, are you somebody who's saying the things you're going to say? I think it was a mistake. It was a damning indictment of the health of our republic that that was allowed to happen. I can tell you're a smart guy. I can tell that we should have had a longer conversation than we were planning for right now. I was expecting something a little bit more disappointing

than we had. I'm saying that in a good way. We have more in common than you think. I think you're, at least you're thoughtful, which I appreciate. Puppets, you know, that joke is sort of welcome. No, no, it's fine. I got to go into this event. The interview ended when we arrived at the next stop in Newton, about 40 minutes east of Des Moines. Ramaswamy spoke in the small dining room of a roadside restaurant where about 20 people were waiting for. Classic retail politics.

We stayed to listen. It was mostly the same stump, except a few minutes in when Ramaswamy pointed us out to the crowd. I was talking to, you know, some left-of-center podcast people who were with me on the bus on the way here. Oh, he's right here.

What did you do for some podcasting? You know, some left-of-center podcast people who were with me on the bus on the way here. Oh, he's right here. What did you do for some podcasting? You know, Lincoln podcasting. Yeah. You guys should subscribe. It's great. You'll enjoy it. You'll probably hate it. Any cover we had was now blown. The whole room knew we were a bunch of libs, and not surprisingly, voters seemed less than eager to

talk to us afterwards. Do you mind if we ask you what you thought of the event? I just, I need to talk to us afterwards. So we headed back to Des Moines. All right, so what did you think about the vibe of the events? At this point in the campaign, what you want to see is crowds that are growing and are more enthusiastic and people showing up who are not just going to caucus for you, but also want to volunteer for you and knock on doors for you and tell their friends about you and so I think what

we saw today were some people who were enthusiastic for either candidate or deciding but there wasn't some insurgent energy that made me think that either of those guys were going to surprise us on caucus night. I could be wrong, you know? I mean, Vivek is betting on turning out a whole bunch of people that aren't on anyone's radar screen, that have never caucused before. They're not necessarily even Republicans, and that's how he's going to do better than expectations. DeSantis and Ramaswamy are the only candidates in the race who have gone all in on Iowa. They're running TV ads. They visited all 99 counties. They even made a bunch of their staffers move from the campaign headquarters out to Iowa. That used to be the recipe for success.

But this time around, based on the polls and the sparsely attended events we saw, it doesn't seem to be working. around, based on the polls and the sparsely attended events we saw, it doesn't seem to be working. I've been asked by a lot of other folks about why aren't the normal rules of campaigning in Iowa working this time. That's political scientist and pollster Dave Peterson at Iowa State University, who you also heard from in episode one. I think it's because Iowans don't treat support in the caucuses like a participation trophy, right? You go to all 99 counties. You campaign with people.

You show up. You go to these events. You shake hands. You answer questions. And Iowans like that and they respect that and they demand that, but not because we just want people to show up and things, right? It's because we want to make a well-informed decision. And we do that. We demand that. And we reward that because we learn about the candidates, right? I mean, that's how campaigns

work. People learn about the candidates. And even if you learn something about Haley or DeSantis, you already know you like Trump better. And they're not able to persuade you away from that. After the break, we find out if Republicans are passionate enough about Donald Trump that they'll even go watch his son Eric speak. Then we sneak into a private event with Dickie Haley. I mean, so right now we're 11 days out from the caucus. And like, I don't know, maybe it was because I was inside the bubble. But my memory of what it was like 11 days out in 2008 and 2007 was frenetic pace, huge events, growing momentum, like pitched battle with a lot of suspense.

And the events we've been at have felt like a little small, a little sleepy, just not like a lot of energy. We went to events in the middle of the day during the week. But I mean, to catch up to Donald Trump in Iowa, We went to events in the middle of the day during the week. But I mean, to catch up to Donald Trump in Iowa, you need a massive groundswell of support that has not shown up in any polls. Right, but anyways,

we're gonna go see Eric Trump in Ankeny. It's a suburb about 20 minutes north of Des Moines. Now, if Eric Trump has bigger crowds in Des Moines than Vivek Ramaswamy or Ron DeSantis. That does not bode well for those two. It was a big room, maybe 150 people inside, and lots of press. We must have been next to a livestock exhibition hall because it smelled distinctly like a barnyard. We stood on the sidelines and got asked twice if we'd signed a commit to caucus card yet.

You guys had a chance to fill out a commit to caucus? No, we were going to watch Eric first and then check it out. Are you on the campaign? Yeah. Are you guys worried about any of these others? No. Eric delivered a surprisingly good speech.

I know, no one is more shocked than I am that I just said that. But he made an authentic pitch about his father's record while also humanizing the guy. And as we went to school every morning, I'd always go give him a kiss. And he'd always say, you know, three things. No drinking, no drugs, and no smoking. Every single morning. And I'm sitting there, I'm a five-year-old kid, Dad, what the hell is drinking like? He's amazing. He's truly an amazing dad. We need a lot more of that. But the climax of the event was definitely when Eric called his dad.

Say hi to the entire crowd. Well, I just want to thank everybody. And always remember, we got the farmers of Iowa $28 billion. And I can't think about Joe Biden doing that. He wouldn't even think about it, and he wouldn't know how to do it. But I just want to say I look forward to seeing you on Friday. We love you all, and I hope my son is doing a great job because he always has. Thank you.

After the event, with Toby Keith's Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue blaring in the event, with Toby Keith's courtesy, the red, white and blue blaring in the background, we chatted up some voters. The first person we talked to was a woman named Deborah. She was totally decked out in Trump gear and was holding a bottle of Trump branded wine for some reason. What's your name? My name is Deborah. Deborah, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Do you mind if we use this on a podcast?

We're just talking to a show about the Congress. Yeah, sure, yeah. No, that's fine. We love Trump. We need a warrior, and we love how his family is so tightly knit. Like, that's beautiful. That's what our country is founded on, like togetherness and to be close and to be family and what it means to be an American.

And that's a family that has proven and shown that to us, and we love it. They're great. Do you think there's really an actual race going on or is this thing over? Okay. You're the news person. You're asking me this. I can honestly tell you I'm the top Trump volunteer in the state of Iowa. So I've made almost 200,000 calls and door knocked. Yeah, I've done a lot. It's 24-7. So I can honestly tell you that this is Trump country. We also spoke with two pastors who told us they were 100%

Trump fans. Do you think that there's any contest happening here? Did you consider any other candidates? Do you think any of them have a chance? Well, I'll tell you. No way. Trump proved himself. And it really, it kind of infuri. Yes, yes, ma'am. No way. No way. No way. Trump proved himself. And it really, it kind of infuriates me, really, that these people are coming up and running.

What are they running for? Wait your turn. He was a Republican president. He was a Republican president that proved himself. Yeah. Why? It angers me every day I go to the mailbox and we've got four or five big pieces of paper, the thick paper, they're wasting Republican

money. We should be fighting the demon crafts. And that's what I call them, demon crafts. Because everything about their policy is totally from hell. They're just demonic. It's just showing itself. And we haven't seen the fruit of all what they've sown yet. You know, I'm really, unless our country turns around, unless Donald Trump can get back in and really fight to bring back sanity, we're going to just be in terrible trouble. Donald Trump's path to the nomination seems almost assured. But there's one candidate that probably has the best shot at competing with

the ex-president in the months to come. That's Nikki Haley. Haley's been surging in the polls in New Hampshire, and she's betting that her home state of South Carolina will turn out for her. For the last year, the Trump campaign spent most of its time hammering Ron DeSantis. But recently, they've refocused on Haley, spending $4.5 million on attack ads this past week. Nikki Haley refused to call illegals criminals. We don't need to talk about them as criminals. They're not. Illegals are criminals, Nikki.

That's what illegal means. Haley was campaigning in New Hampshire for the first few days of our trip, but now she was back in Iowa. We knew she had two events on her schedule, but neither were open to the public. And her campaign had been ignoring our emails, which look, I get it. We're the liberal media, but it was our last day, so we had to try. It's technically a Rotary Club meeting. We barely know what that is. We think it has to do with volunteering of some sort, since Lacey is a Rotary expert.

I got a scholarship in high school. See, that's what I said. She's an expert. More importantly, though, what time is it? Oh, it's dark out. It's 7.05 in the morning on Friday. We parked the car and rode an elevator to the Holiday Inn lobby, where we found a couple of very nice young guys manning a folding table. Yeah, I'm sorry, it's a closed event. We haven't put anyone in. It's not our event. So we helped ourselves to the lobby coffee and waited for it to be over,

in hopes that we could talk with some voters on their way out of the event. Nikki Haley's surge has been the story of the campaign for the last several weeks. She received a major influx of cash from the Koch-funded super PAC, Americans for Prosperity. But recently, she had a string of gaffes, ones that I'm sure were creating headaches for the staffers we met outside of the Rotary Club meeting. First, at a town hall in New Hampshire, she was asked what she thought caused the Civil War, and somehow she failed to mention slavery. Then she pointedly declined to change her answer. What do you want me to say about slavery? Next question. Later, she told a group of New Hampshire voters that they would correct

Iowa's vote. I trust every single one of you. You know how to do this. You know Iowa starts it. You know that you correct it. You know that you continue to go. And my sweet state of South Carolina brings them home. That's what we do. That's what we do. Haley said she was just kidding around, and everyone was overreacting to a little good-natured early state trash talk from a South Carolinian. But DeSantis and Eric Trump made a meal out of that one. This dumb little fight fed the media narrative for a couple of days, but it felt like a relic from a different era in politics. Donald Trump's lawyer is in court literally arguing that the president can order the U.S. military to kill his political rival. Does anyone actually care about some dumb joke about Iowa? I really wanted to hear what the Rotary Club members thought about Haley's speech.

After about an hour of crappy holiday and coffee, the event let out. The first folks we met were a younger couple. The wife was actually a Democrat, and the husband told us he didn't remember how long it's been since he voted Republican. Hearing her and what she has to say is enlightening and refreshing. And she speaks from more of a middle perspective, and it's great to hear. I really liked what she said. I think I come just out of curiosity and as a woman. So I'm really open.

I think she's really polished. I think she's going to get a lot of traction here in Iowa, especially if people can see her live. We also spoke with another Rotary Club member named Joe. I was wondering what you folks thought, how she did. So, yeah, I thought she did really well. I actually am an undecided caucus participant, and I thought she held herself really well.

I thought she does a good job of explaining where she is in various issues. So I was actually really impressed. Did she help you decide? I'm still, like, unbelievably undecided. Usually by this point, I've never missed a caucus in my life, never missed a vote in my life, and I am totally undecided outside of one decision point, I'm like, I've never missed a caucus in my life, never missed a vote in my life, and I've, I'm, I am totally undecided. Outside of one decision I know I'm not making.

Is that Donald Trump? That would be him. What's preventing you from making a decision? Like, what's still the question in your mind? So I'll use the example of, like, when Obama was doing it, and people would, like, sleep in tents to, like, go for Obama. Like, I don't have that feeling for any of these candidates yet. Maybe because I'm 38 now, you know, and I don't want to sleep in a tent for a candidate. Like I don't have that feeling for any of these candidates yet.

Maybe it's because I'm 38 now, you know, and I'm still on sleep in a tent for a candidate. But I don't have that like jump out of bed, tell everyone about the candidate feeling yet. I think a fake gives you the best version of that, but there's also like a lot of things that come with that. So I don't know. Finally, we talked with Dave and Mary,

who told us they liked that Nikki Haley served up policy solutions rather than platitudes. Can we ask you a couple questions about what you thought? It was probably a record-breaking number of people who were up there today. And many of us to hear her for the first time, you know, face-to-face and to hear some of her solutions. Very strong on national defense. Very strong on the economy. very strong on the border, and she seems to be somebody that should be given strong consideration to. She's still undecided? For sure. Yeah, yeah.

We haven't told her next week. I want someone who's going to be able to beat Joe Biden. What scares the hell out of me is say these words. President Kamala Harris. Okay. So is electability kind of a big consideration for you? Yeah, I think so. You know, in this time, I think Donald Trump did a great service to this country. But I think it's time to move beyond the chaos.

And she stressed that, by the way. Yeah. time to move beyond the chaos. And she stressed that, by the way. Let's don't trade Republican chaos for the Democratic chaos that we're now experiencing. And that's probably what four more years of Trump would do. So who are you folks deciding between at this point? Nikki Haley is very high in my regard. And then probably DeSantis would be the other one. But I'm leaning very heavily toward Nikki, very much. Based on the people we talked to, Nikki Haley would kick ass in a Rotary Club caucus. Civic-minded moderates to conservatives

who by and large were pretty skeptical of Donald Trump. Still, we wanted to hear Haley for ourselves. And we learned that we'd have one more chance exactly 12 hours later that day at an event hosted by an organization that encourages Gen Z Republicans to run for office. The event was at a members-only club in a skyscraper in downtown Des Moines. And while it was open to credentialed media, they told us our request had come in too late. But we showed up anyway, perhaps a little underdressed, and walked in.

It was kind of an odd event. The governor of New Hampshire, Chris Sununu, was there to moderate, even though it's not his home state. And the questions were just softballs, ranging from, do you like to cook, Nikki? Michael didn't cook, we wouldn't eat. To, and this is a quote, how did you become the ambassador of the UN? Governor Sununu even compared Haley to his favorite diplomat of all time. That would be Henry Kissinger, of course, the one who did all the genocides.

After about 45 minutes or so, the campaign kicked us and all the rest of the press corps out of the event. Meanwhile, two hours north, Donald Trump held a rally in Mason City to a packed room. Oh, we're going to take our country back. We're going to take it back. Trump seemed more worried about his voters not turning out to caucus than he did about any of his rivals. And, boy, I tell you, the biggest risk, as you say,

you know, we're winning by so much, darling. Let's stay home and watch television. Let's watch this great victory. And if enough people do that, it's not going to be pretty. But we're not going to let that happen. We headed back to the hotel. Tommy. Yo.

That was the last event. How are you feeling? So tired. We've been doing this for what? We've been doing this for 13, 14 hours today. It's been a long day. I mean, one thing that I took away from this that surprises me every year uh it happened in 2007 and 8 it happened in 2016 it happened 2020 it happened this year is the number of people who tell you

they're still undecided like 10 or 11 days out from the caucuses is shocking because we're all obsessed and we're focused on this and we're worrying about it all the time, but they're not because they're normal human beings. So things break late all the time in Iowa. Iowa can surprise you, but it still feels like Trump is well in the lead. Wednesday night was the final debate before caucus night. Only Trump, Haley, and DeSantis qualified, but Trump refused to participate, and DeSantis qualified, but Trump refused to participate, just as he had in every prior debate this cycle. It was the first time Haley and DeSantis went head-to-head, without any other candidates on the stage. Ron DeSantis went after Nikki Haley, as he has for the past several weeks,

attacking her conservative bona fides. You know, I debated the governor of California, Gavin Newsom. You know, I thought he lied a lot. Man, Nikki Haley gives him a run for his money, and she may even be more liberal than Gavin Newsom is. And Nikki Haley shot back. Every time he lies, Drake University, don't turn this into a drinking game, because you will be over-served by the end of the night. It was a last-ditch effort to distinguish themselves

as the best candidate to Iowa voters. But without the frontrunner on the debate stage, we'll see if any of this ends up mattering. On January 15th, Iowa Republicans will head to about 1,500 caucus locations to vote. If Trump can pull off a victory in Iowa after barely visiting the state, it does make me wonder about the future of retail politics and the early state process itself. At a time when partisan news and social media algorithms are pushing us further into our bubbles, maybe future candidates will decide that they don't need to drive around Iowa to win. I think the death of retail politics would be a terrible thing for the country

and bad for nostalgia-chasing political hacks like me who know that the early states are the best part of the campaign. That's when you can just walk into an event, shake a candidate's hand, and ask them a question. In a few months, all that will change. Town halls will be replaced by massive rallies, and the public will be separated from the politicians by secret service and officious campaign staffers.

Our presidential primary process is weird and flawed and has on occasion delivered us disastrous results. But at least people in Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina show up and take the process seriously. That seems far better than a future where the biggest celebrity in the race just posts their way to the nomination. On the Ground in Iowa is an original series from Pod Save America and Crooked Media. I'm your host, Tommy Vitor. Lacey Roberts is our senior producer. Alona Minkowski is our producer, with production help from Ashley Mizzuo and Evan Walton. Our executive producers are Reed Cherlin and Katie Long. Original music by Hannes Brown. Sarah Gibble Lasker from Chapter 4 is our sound designer and engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin

and Charlotte Landis. Madeline Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Thanks to our digital team, Phoebe Bradford, Haley Jones, Mia Kelman, Caroline Dunphy, Dilan Villanueva, and Molly Lobel. Special thanks to Andy Taft, Alex Hernandez, Kayla Moriarty, and the Pod Save America team. If you want to get ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and more, consider joining our Friends of the Pod subscription community at crooked.com slash friends. And if you're already doom scrolling, don't forget to follow us at Pod Save America on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube for access to full episodes, bonus content, and more. Plus, if you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Thank you.