Queen Havoc and Her Murder Cult - Episode 11: Bonus Episode

Episode Date: August 8, 2023

Extras from Cecilia Steyn’s harrowing interview, updates on the case of possible police corruption, and stories of the team’s experiences in South Africa.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The True Crime Podcast, Sacred Scandal, returns for a second season to investigate a led sexual abuse at Mexico's La Luz del Mundo Mega Church. Journalist Robert Garza explores survivor stories of pure evil experiences at the hands of a self-proclaimed apostle who is now behind bars. I remember as a little girl being groomed to be his concubine, that's how I was raised. It is not wrong if you take your clothes off for the Apostle. Listen to Sacred Scandal on the IHR radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 911 what's your emergency? It's a nightmare we could never have imagined. An Achiller?

Who is still on the loose? In the 1980s we're in high school losing friends, teachers, and community members. We weren't safe anywhere. Would we be next? It was getting harder and harder to live in Mompine. Listen to the Murder Years on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Facing Evil is back and we're bringing you conversations that matter.

I can't tell you how many times she had said he's going to kill me. I will never escape him, he will find me and he will kill me. We're talking with experts and change makers devoted to making a difference in these tragic true crime stories. Our system failed us, we need to make sure that that does not happen again. Listen to Facing Evil on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. School of Humans.

This show follows the investigation of serial murders and contains material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion advised. material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion advised. Welcome everybody, Kurt Kubichek here. Thank you so much for tuning in to our bonus episode. I wanted to bring you all back because there was a lot of things we wanted to share with you all, including more in-depth interviews with Cecilia Stein. We'll also hear great insight from Nikki Falcoff and more from Miranda Stein. So I've got Jennifer Tachini, my co-producer here with me. Hi, it's great to be back.

And also, I'm really excited to introduce another important team member, our lead producer, Julia Criscaugh. Hey, good to be here. We're gonna tie up some loose ends of the case, including what we currently know about the open investigation into Colonel Diagger, Captain Johann Benvic, and Cecilia's husband, Officer Trees Stein. We'll also take you through everything, including some of our wild adventures on the ground in South Africa.

If you've gotten this far, we appreciate you coming to the bonus episode of Queen Habit. Here's Dr. Nikki Valkov. These countries with these kind of really big opaque governments and these really, really complex, angry, difficult histories of violence and these societies that are very diverse, where lots of people feel left out, you know, in a way that you wouldn't necessarily get in Western Europe. Is there something about those kinds of societies that makes people more susceptible to the sort of charisma that, you know, a man's son or a Cecilia Stein has?

Quite possibly. Well, I met Cecilia Stein this week. Oh my God. Yeah. How was that? Most people could fall prey to her. Oh, okay, that's really nice. Instantly, when we met, it began. Her control.

Yeah, she was on at the moment it started. So she, there's some kind of manipulative skill that this person has that is beyond the understanding of most of us. And if you're not, I mean, really hyper-self-aware, you wouldn't see it. Wow. Imagine if she used her powers for good. So, what was that like being in her presence then? Imagine if she used her powers for good. So what was that like being in her presence then? So I know we talked a little bit about it in the episodes but like did you feel that she was like working that charm on you all when you were meeting her in the present?

I think so. I mean, immediately when we walked in the room, we were introduced to a lot of the staff and a lot of the people that were there. And it really felt like we had to remind ourselves where we were because it felt like just a casual conversation with friends and you know just catching up, you know, over coffee. As a reminder, Sun City is one of the most dangerous prisons in South Africa. She instantly welcomed us. She just went in for hogs. It wasn't like we had a choice. And but she was lovely and friendly. And I mean, she made everybody in the whole area know that we were there to see her. And I mean, she's laughing and giggling. She doesn't take anything really that seriously with us. She tried to keep everything really, really light. I mean, she's laughing and giggling. She doesn't take anything really that seriously with us.

She tried to keep everything really, really light. I mean, she brought us into where you forgot. It's strange when you obviously are like, how could you do this to people? And how could you do this manipulate people of user religion, cause people to take lives? And then you're actually with these people and they're kind to you and they're respectful to you.

And you obviously have your guard up, especially with Cecilia going, okay, she's playing chess too. So and I think that was the biggest thing me and Jennifer, you know, was like, always remember she's, she can't shut that off. She's always going to be Cecilia. She's always going to be playing chess. So don't get too comfortable, Yep. Don't get too comfortable. So, but I mean, Miranda, as you heard in the series, you know, I was pretty rocked after meeting her. But what was, I think, so overwhelming

for me is that she was really, really nice to me. And to know that just in a quickness that she could go and turn into whether it's because of her manipulated brainwashed, kind of psyche about Cecilia, or she's just capable of that and has that deep thing. But the scariest part is I saw the high school teacher. I literally experienced the high school teacher when I sat with her, which was the day time, the daytime Rinda. And it seems like everyone had a split personality.

Luke talks about that as well, having, feeling like he's one person during the day, and then at night, he's himself, and it's so horrible to have to put on this mask all the time. But I feel like for Cecilia and eventually Miranda probably, it didn't feel like a mask anymore, right? It just became who they were. I see myself as a vigilante and then I thought, okay, Miranda, so I fetched my old broke-indictionary and it says there a person who takes care of a criminal act. So you might not agree with the Magellan D. See? The people that we killed were bad potatoes. They were what? Bad potatoes.

Bad potatoes, okay. I think one of the most interesting quotes from Cecilia that you all got was that Cecilia means blindness. Even in court you listen to people testify and it's the opinion of something that happened. It just example in court the prosecutor was explaining to me what my tattoos mean. And I have an eye tattooed on my shoulder. And you were saying that it's the eye of Ron, I'm going, no, my name is Cecilia, it means blindness. She is using her charm to real people in,

but she's completely blind to their experience. She's like anyone else's experience besides her own, which is like the narcissist psychopath thing that's happening. At one point, I asked Cecilia how it felt to be labeled the female Charles Manson. And this was her response. Well, this is the first time I'm hearing someone say that I'm the female vision of Charles Manson.

Don't know a lot of a volume, but we'll definitely go check up on that. I was always more of a ripthorn myself. It's something that intrigued me. I do believe he was female. Just for the record, it's not a sexist thing. Females are so much better than everything else. What's this saying? She knows so much better than everything else. What's this saying? If what the devil isn't able to do, you'll see a woman. I believe that she saw this avenue into these people of let me give you purpose. Correct. Let me give you. I need to be taken care of. I need your money. I need a ride. I need your help. Let me give you something to be purposeful about. And that's what I think is slightly unique about this

You know this serial mastermind, whatever all the different names they give her, is just a unique brand into finding people that specifically have this need to nurture. Yeah, no, that's actually a very, very, very good point that I hadn't thought of. Thinking about cult leaders that I know a little bit about people like the Jones town guy and other kind of massive cult leaders, what they tend to do is they do provide people with a sense of purpose But in the sense that they go you must follow me and then you too will be strong like me their charisma is about strength and power Whereas what she did was almost about weakness She was constantly showing how vulnerable she is. I wonder if that's something to do with being a

female cult leader rather than a male cult leader. That you cannot take this huge vast patriarchal position where you go, I am God, I am Jesus, everyone must follow me. Instead you go, I am, I am the thing that needs to be saved from the greatest evil around and you must all collectively save me and in doing so you save yourselves. Yes, and you're doing something good and you're doing something righteous. Cecilia used pity as a manipulation tactic wherever she could. She never failed to mention her sickness, even with us. I think at the end of the day was just a group of people really taking care of each other.

I was the one that was sick the whole time. Yeah, my lungs and my stuff. Yes. All of those things, but it wasn't just taking care of me because I was sick. We were friends. We cooked together. We ate together every day. We visited together every day. I think it was more just being there. And now in the court case, they pulled that out of proportion, but it was really just the group of people taking care of each other. So, yeah, what they say in court and what happened in real life is two completely, completely different things. Cecilia is chock full of contradiction herself, constantly creating a facade to hide behind.

Detected Ben Boison told us that he believes Cecilia and EPD to be connected to at least four more murders, one that he couldn't prove. I linked him actually with 15 murders, but I could only prove Leven, so I only took that Leven cases to court at the end of the day. Ben also did some digging in the Cecilia's background before the days of Riegrinnewald and EPD even began. Going back Cecilia has been there a girlfriend in 2005 and eventually she was also killed in a brutal way but in 2005 Zach Valentine and Marina and those people were not part of

her. So I don't know if Cecilia did that killing by herself or was there at that stage, other people in her life that she was convincing to, to kill people? It's like Susette said, she could open a university to teach people manipulation. Yeah, I mean, she had them believe that, you know, she gave everybody a teddy bear, and they believed that she embodied the teddy bear and that she could watch them through the teddy bear and all their actions and so Marcel and the Rue believe that they were being watched at all times. I think of that.

She never admitted anything to us with regard to the crimes and told us her versions of everything We knew that there was a dark side or a shadow version of herself that she didn't show us Which was capable of saying and doing whatever it took to get what she wanted I also believe there's no big or small sense in this and whether you lie or kill or steal some people steal chocolates Some people steal people's lives. Yeah, whether it's it's shoplifting or murder or there's no big or small sin, sin, sin. So yeah, I don't know the right judge anybody. I think we're just us, you know.

We'll be right back. Um, I think we just ask, you know? We'll be right back. 911, what's your emergency? You shot her! Oh my God! It's a nightmare we could never have imagined. And a killer who is still on the loose. My small town rocked by murder. There are certain murders I'm scared to discuss.

In the 1980s, we're in high school losing friends, teachers, and community members. One after another, after another, for a decade. We weren't safe anywhere. We're teenagers terrified to leave our own homes. Would we be next? Who is killing all the kids? And why? In that moment, I saw rage. And why do you some want the town secrets to stay dead and buried forever?

I'm not sure why you're digging up all this old stuff again, but I'd be careful. Don't say I didn't warn you, Nancy. Listen to the Murder Years on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Sacred Skando, one of the best new podcasts of 2022, is back with a closer look at the darkness surrounding mega church La Luz del Mundo and its leader, Nasson Joaquin Garcia. They believe that he was Jesus Christ on Earth. It wasn't even so much that he liked sex. He wanted something to pray. It's the largest cult in the world that no one has ever heard of. For three generations, the Luz del Mundo had an incredible control on his community

that began in Mexico and then grew across the United States. Until one day. A day of reckoning for the man whose millions of followers call him the Apostle. Their leader was arrested, and survivors began to speak out about the sexual abuse, the murder, and corruption. This is just a business, and their product are people. They want to know that they will kill you. Listen to all episodes now on the I Heart Readyy Up, Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcasts.

A lot of those Conmin and Gryftes end up being religious leaders and then they just become Conmin and Gryftes at a larger scale, right? I'm just thinking about the kind of really extractive evangelical churches that are popping up all over South Africa where people who are very, very, very little are giving most of what they have to a preacher. I would love to dive into that because we've also found our way to attend one of the church that one of the police officers who's under investigation right now is pastoring. Oh wow. under investigation right now is pastoring. Oh wow.

Basically, we found out while we were there that DeYagard had opened up some kind of a small congregation of his own. I know this is absolutely insane right after hearing everything we just did. So on the day that I was set to go into the prison to see Miranda Stein. Jennifer was very interested in obviously joining me, but the only time of this church service was the day I was set to go into the prison. So I kind of looked at Jennifer and said, hey, I know you're gonna be on your own here pretty much,

but I think this is really important, don't you think? And she totally agreed. So Jennifer, you wanna tell me about that day? Yeah, so I really was curious about DeYaga and wanted to ask him some questions. We really wanted to get the perspective of the detectives that we hadn't spoken to. We hopped in a car with one of our colleagues from South Africa and drove two hours outside of Johannesburg and pulled up and unfortunately I was left to my own devices to go in by myself and we were running a little bit late so unfortunately the church had started and

approached the, you know, it was like a small house similar to like a house in the valley in Los Angeles, it was a little paranoid about going in. What I was going to say, I hadn't really quite prepared the questions or what the approach was because I knew that he was a pastor in this church and so it was a delicate process to try to be able to speak to him and walked up to the ornately carved wooden doors and pushed lightly on them and it was locked and so I thought I had an out. I turned around to leave and then a person unlocked the door and opened the door and welcomed me in and as soon as I stepped into the church, the room room with silent. And I was staring directly at Diagger, who was at the pulpit.

He was maybe around 5'8", 5'9", late 50s. Short hair like piercing blue eyes with a big presence. He kind of teeters between like lovable grandpa and Tony soprano and he slowly walked down through about 30 chairs of people and embraced me in a hug and had me sit down on the back row near a fireplace. The guy that was standing guard at the door locked the door and I immediately scanned the room looking for windows, doors, some type of exit.

And there were bars on the windows. There was one back door, but that was it. And then there was a fireplace and that was it. So I was kind of stuck in this room. And I tried to blend in to the best of my ability, but the whole church service was in AfroCon. So as soon as the singing started, there were several individuals in the congregation

that stood up and they started waving red flags. Um, wow. Like, you don't need anything more clear than a huge red flag waving in your face to get the hell out of there. And it was like, go, now get out. Uh-huh. The fact that you were locked in, where you're like, I feel like I would have been like

shaking, like my hand would have been shaking. Oh yeah, I mean, the thing is, once the door locked, knowing, you're in temple at doom right now. Yeah, knowing the door locked knowing knowing what I knew about Deogra I think was the scariest thing because here you have this guy who's at the pulpit you know giving a sermon for families for the were children and you know like it was a family church and he presented himself as this family man that was helping the congregation

and that's one side of him and we knew another side of him, but... So it was all different kinds of people, family. Yeah, family's young people. Yes, and then at one point, so they were singing hymns and he asked a couple of people to come to the front and then a person started speaking in tongues, started convulsing and then collapsed onto the floor.

And the yaga and some congregation members came and helped her up as this was all going on. Our colleague, who was out in the car outside, texted me saying, look, you need to tread carefully because this is a private church, this is a private home. He is still a detective, he's still on the force, and if he feels like you're being aggressive with him or, you know, too confrontational, he could arrest you, you know, you're trespassing on his property. So the service wrapped up and Deogger again walked down the aisle towards me and in English, you know, asked me if I wanted to come

join the congregation in the back room for coffee and tea afterwards. And so followed them all in there and let until a really small back room. It was tiled floor. There were windows. And the congregation all surrounded me and they handed me coffee. Where you set it ease a little bit. Now that you had witnesses and more people be kind to you. Yeah, I think I was a little bit more at ease, but at the same time, my anxiety was, you know, heaking because I didn't know what I was going to do because I thought, oh, I was going to approach him, ask him some questions about the case, and then realizing that that's probably not the best idea.

And the congregation surrounding me and then his wife, his wife comes up to me and was really close. You know, they, the congregation was very curious about who I was and how I came to be there because this was two hours outside of a main city. And I told them that I told them that I had found the church through Facebook, which is true. And then I also had our South African colleague

text me going, do not do anything stupid. Like I can only bill you out so far. You know, you don't end up in the same prison as Cecilian Miranda and the rest of like just per day as which I don't know if that's actually possible, but so it got awkward because as everyone was surrounding me asking questions and I didn't, I was kind of backing up against the corner,

you know, not really sure what to say to get out of there because I wasn't going to take this opportunity to confront him with his wife and his congregation. There's kids, you know, it's like this was not the time in the place and so I just sort of cut out and said, it was so nice to be here and shook everyone's hand. And then quickly ran out to the street and search of our colleagues' car

and they were not anywhere to be seen. And so I ran down the block as fast as I could trying to find their car and found it hopped in and we sped away as fast as we could. But the scary thing was on the drive back. Another one of the colleagues that we had met with in South Africa, we are there, texted me and said, oh, Diagger mentioned that you visited him at church today.

And I hadn't told them anything or any you know, any name or, you know, maybe because I was from the States. Like, that was their connection, but, um, and that was really scary, is that he knew who I was the whole time. 911, what's your emergency? You shot her! Oh my God! It's a nightmare we could never have imagined. And a killer who is still on the loose. My small town rocked by murder.

There are certain murders I'm scared to discuss. In the 1980s, we're in high school losing friends, teachers, and community members. One after another, after another, for a decade. We weren't safe anywhere. We're teenagers terrified to leave our own homes. Would we be next? Who is killing all the kids? And why?

In that moment, I saw rage. And why do you some want the town secrets to stay dead and buried forever? I'm not sure why you're digging up all this old stuff again, but I'd be careful. Don't say I didn't warn you Nancy. Listen to the murder years on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Sacred Skando, one of the best new podcasts of 2022, is back with a closer look at the darkness

surrounding mega-church la luz del mundo and its leader, Nasson Joaquin Garcia. One of the best new podcasts of 2022 is back with a closer look at the darkness surrounding Megaturge La Luz del Mundo and its leader, Nasson Joaquin Garcia. They believe that he was Jesus Christ on Earth. It wasn't even so much that he liked sex. He wanted something to pray. It's the largest cult in the world that no one has ever heard of. For three generations, La Luz del Mundo had an incredible control on his community that began in Mexico and then grew across the United States

until one day. A day of reckoning for the man whose millions of followers called him the Apostle. Their leader was arrested and survivors began to speak out about the sexual abuse, the murder and corruption. This is just a business and their product are people. to speak out about the sexual abuse, the murder, and corruption. This is just a business and their product are people. They want to know that they will kill you.

Listen to all episodes now on the I Heart Ready Up, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcasts. So in sequence of events, so Cecilia gets convicted in August of 2019. Then, I mean, obviously Dries was implicated in some of the testimony, right? Because he was living there, so he had to be aware of some of it. Is it safe to say that Ben Boyzin was like, okay, this is not over? And in order to like actually end this, like there's a larger, okay, this is not over. And in order to actually end this, there's a larger problem here, which is,

there's corruption and organized crime happening in the police force, which Dion Vendvik talks about a lot. As a young prosecutor, in 1993, you would have blinded me out of the wood if you told me then, this is what South Africa would become. the wood if you dulled me then, this is what South Africa would become. So there is an element of how shall I explain cancer in our moral fiber on ground level. It's safe to say that Ben wanted to get these guys behind bars. Ultimately, what we know of is the Jagger was removed

from the police service without a pension. This was November 2022. Right, and you all were there in August of 2022. So November 2022, the Jagger was removed from the force. I think a month before his pension was supposed to kick in. Yes. And there's currently an open investigation that could put him by bars. I'm curious what you think Deoghars motivations might have been because, you know,

we obviously know from what we just heard from you, Jennifer, that he is like a godfiring individual. know from what we just heard from you, John, of her that he is like a God-fearing individual. And I wonder, you know, do we know anything about how Cecilia may have manipulated him? Was he just terrified of her? Because he also believed the Satanic stuff? Do you think she was like paying him off, maybe to keep them safe?

Like maybe that's where Zach Valentine and John Barnard's money was all going? Do, you know, ensure they're all of their safety? I don't know, but my gut tells me that this is money. From learning everything we did when we were there and the investigation and how underpaid and overworked the police force is, I think this is just something where, you know, he was able to make a little bit extra money. He had known and had a prior relationship with Cecilia.

So there was kind of a give and take of financial things and also gifts. I think Ben mentioned that in the series. And that kind of thing was going on because at the end of the day, I think there was just too much to risk possibly for deogger, if there wasn't money involved. The problem is the global system of capitalism that if a woman was in charge, she would also be stuck with. And I think that's also why this particular case

caught people's attention so dramatically because we are all so horrified by the idea that women could do this, particularly by the idea that a mother, a mother would sully her daughter in this way. It's absolutely horrifying and, you know, fascinatingly sensational at the same time. So I think that's drawn a lot of attention to this case. Colonel Henny Diagger has been released from his duties as an officer of the law and his pension revoked. Cecilia Stein's husband Dries is still working as a cop for the South African Police Service.

Captain Johann Benvic came back to the force after resigning for a bit after Mikaila's murder. He too, still works, for the SAPS. I want to add one more thing before we wrap things up. Something I thought was interesting. While we were in South Africa, I was asked by Luke, our main witness, to talk to detective Su-Zet Kanotsai and Ben Boison to try to arrange a visit. Luke wanted to go to the prison where LaRou is incarcerated. To get some information and closure on a few

things and potentially help Ben in the case against the corrupt cops. So I reached out to Susette and told her about the situation. She'd helped Luke in the past and agreed to make the trip to be by his side. Susette flew up from Cape Town to Johannesburg and met up with Luke to visit LaRue at Sun City Prison. During their visit, Susette told LaRue at Sun City Prison? During their visit, Suzette told LaRue, quote, �I wish you had come forward to me then and told me your story. You were never implicated or involved in the first four murders. So if you told me the truth back in 2012, instead of when you were caught in 2016, you would have never gone to prison at all.

Suzette told us that there was an unforgettable look on his face. She washed as the weight of her word sunk into his soul and he felt the raw truth of them. Greeving the lost promise of yet another life he'd callously extinguished his own. But Luke, their imprisonment with Leroux, he felt it, what he'd come to find, a sense of closure. Leroux's Stein is set to be released from prison in 2039.

There's also a small chance, according to the state advocates we spoke with, that Cecilia Stein could be up for parole in 2044. At the end of the day, telling you outside of what happened, it is very much liberating in a way. As we conclude this series, we extend our heartfelt gratitude to all who have supported this podcast and everyone in South Africa who welcomed us into your beautiful country.

Thank you again for joining us on this journey through the darker chambers of the human heart. Together we peered into the nearly unknowable minds of murderers and also ventured to grapple with the losses and the victims they left in their wake. And in doing so, we hope that we also illuminated those aspects of the human psyche that defy easy understanding. Cecilia Stein confessed, she believes we are all sinners, and that only God can judge us. I have to agree with her. But make no mistake, we can still recognize evil when we see it.

Trust yourself and always listen to those whispers of truth inside you. Queen Havik and her murder cult is a production of School of Humans and I Heart podcasts. Queen Havoc is hosted and created by me, Kurt Kubicek, produced and written by Jennifer Tachini, Julia Kriskao, and Kurt Kubicek. Lead producer is Julia Kriskao. Story editor is Zaryn Bernett. Senior producer is Amelia Brock. Production manager is Daisy Church. Original music composed by Claire Campbell.

Editing, Sound Design, and Scoring by Jesse Naiswonger. Associate producers are Dash and Moodly and Jameen Kriger, additional producing by Ben Melman, Fact Checking by Dennis Webster. Recording engineers are Graham Gibson, Clay Hillenberg and Josh Hook. Rindestine was read by Angelique Pretorias. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, LC Crowley,

Brandon Barr, Jennifer Tkini, and Kurt Kubicek. We want to thank all of those who so generously welcomed us in South Africa and shared their stories. We're incredibly grateful to you all. We also want to acknowledge how traumatic these events are for the victims and their families. Please respect their privacy. If you or someone you know has been affected by cult behaviors, there are resources available,

including voices for dignity at ChristineMurray.com. The True Crime Podcast, Sacred Scandal, returns for a second season to investigate a led sexual abuse at Mexico's La Luz del Mundo Mega Church. Journalist Robert Garza explores survivor stories of pure evil experiences at the hands of a self-proclaimed apostle who is now behind bars. I remember as a little girl being groomed to be his concubine, that's how I was raised. It is not wrong if you take your clothes off for the impossible. Listen to Sacred Scandal on the IHAR radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 9-1-1 what's your emergency?

It's a nightmare we could never have imagined. And a killer who is still on the loose. In the 1980s, we're in high school losing friends, teachers, and community members. We weren't safe anywhere. Would we be next? It was getting harder and harder to live in Mompine. Listen to the Murder Years on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Facing evil is back and we're bringing you conversations that matter.

I can't tell you how many times she had said he's going to kill me. I will never escape him. He will find me and he will kill me. We're talking with experts and change makers devoted to making a difference in these tragic true crime stories. Our system failed us. We need to make sure that that does not happen again. Listen to Facing Evil on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.