Queen Havoc and Her Murder Cult - Episode 5: Never Can You Run

Episode Date: June 20, 2023

The vortex of Cecilia’s brainwashing deepens, entangling her followers even further. Luke feels himself getting sucked into their wicked ways, so he gets the cops involved – with surprising results. Meanwhile, Detective Suzette Knoetze is hot on EPD’s trail. The investigation forces the cult into hiding and begins to reveal Cecilia’s misleading motivations.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This show follows the investigation of serial murders and contains material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion advised. contains material that may be disturbing. Listener discretion advised. Late October, 2012, the trees were just beginning to bud. A series of homicides were now sending shockwaves through the small town of Krugerstorp, South Africa.

The local papers run stories about satanic murders, citing police reports of brutal, seemingly ceremonial scenes. No charges were ever filed against Rhea Grunoval, but as the trees blossomed, so did the doubts and the hearts and minds of Rhea's friends and confidence. Rhea couldn't leave her house without being harassed. So she used her time in isolation

to repair her relationship with her son, Joshua. Ria's years of devotion to Cecilia left Joshua feeling neglected and resentful. Ria felt determined to bridge the divide between them. Coincidentally, that same October, Joshua became the latest fixation for Cecilia Stein. Since Revenge Against Rhea was her primary goal, she could find no better target for her wrath.

By this time, Luke, the infiltrator, was being primed to officially become a member of electus Bordeas. He was spending a lot of time with Cecilia and Zach and the others. Luke's primary residence was out of town, but since he had work in Kruger's door, he liked to stay with his friends Zach and Michaela. The three had become close. Luke had also been in acquaintance of Natasha Berger and Joy Burnside. M'kay, now that in time, must murder it. I couldn't.

I'm a little bit mad to cut that out because it feels like anybody in our arms you just can't murder it. Believing that Zach was devastated, Luke stuck around to help his friend grieve the loss of his wife. Even if it meant staying in the same house where she was killed. Luke found Zack to be strangely unaffected by his wife's murder. That man didn't even cry about his wife. Everyone had loved Michaela. Luke included.

In her absence, Luke found himself slowly drawn in a Cecilia's orbit. Then, one day, she popped the question. She caused me. Do you think Zack is capable of murder? Luke had growing doubts about Zack, but not enough to label him a murderer. So I don't know. I don't know. I don't think so, I don't know.

Cecilia assured him that Zack was a loyal soldier in her army, willing to do whatever it took to carry out God's word. So as he told me about how he killed indeed Sire Lama with the axe, they demonstrated it before him. Right before his unbelieving eyes, they re-enacted the murder. Luke was horrified. His worst fears confirmed.

His friend Zach was indeed a killer. And now, Luke was suddenly profoundly scared for his own life. He'd gotten too close to Cecilia. And like Michaela, he also knew too much. I mean, the whole thing started to make sense to me. What's going on? And now everybody's involved. new too much. From School of Humans and Ihar Podcasts, this is Queen Havoc and her murder cult. I'm your host, Kurt Kupichek. Episode 5. Never Can You Run

One night in Cecilia's small, dimly-lit apartment, Zach Valentine tells the group he's received a sign, a vision. Just like the one Cecilia had about Natasha, re-agronavolt son Joshua should be their next target. Then, Miranda Chimeson, turns out she also received a sign about Joshua's future on Earth. This tracked with the plan Cecilia already started plotting to hit Rheagrinavold where it would hurt the most. So they cornered me and they said that I must be exact right, Edmund. I must out to right, Edmund. I must help him to murder Joshua.

In a matter of months, Zach had evolved from husband-friend and frequent host to a cold, calculating murderer, and Luke was being groomed to join their sadistic form of worship to Sicilyus Dine. I kept myself cool, but the inside I was ripped apart. And these time to go and cry and start dying must get into this game. And I was thinking and praying every night how to avoid this. Luke was having a crisis. Realizing that his initial impulse to infiltrate the group was a bit naive. He placed himself in the crosshairs of real killers

and by the time he came face to face with this reality, the one in which he might very likely be murdered, he was in too deep. Now, he was spending his nights in Zack's passenger seat, stalking their next victim, and trying desperately to think of ways to thwart Zack. Every night they went through and spied on this guy. Our wing would suck a couple of farms driving to his house and they need plate volleyball day and land dug.

Yana Marx's book describes EPD placing hidden cameras in the trees outside Joshua's home. One evening, Zach trailed him into a bar and slipped something in his drink. To Zach's dismay, it seemed to have no effect, but they were getting closer and the walls were closing in on Luke. Tonight the tonight they're going to kill him and him all just come up with excuses or all. There's anything in my power to stop them." When Joshua's active outgoing lifestyle made him hard to track, EPD decided to try the

same tactic they'd used with Bendixen. They would make an appointment. Luke made the first call to Internet Solutions, the company Joshua worked for and requested a house call. But Luke couldn't get him to nail down a time, which makes sense. Joshua worked in System Zytee, not a help desk. Some were in to try next. She said she needed help connecting her home Wi-Fi. Joshua was polite,

but instead of agreeing to come over, he referred her to one of his peers. As EPD ramped up its tactics, Luke kept trying to stall. I was trying to do everything in my power to divert these people, luckily they believed all the bull me that I believed all the bullshit I feared of them? I had almost like a split-dish amality. In the day, when I'm with them, I'm this type of person that unites myself. It was horrible. Meanwhile, Joshua had become a bit suspicious. Something about this onslaught of house-called requests felled off.

Luke wanted no part in the murder, Something about this onslaught of house-called requests felled off. Luke wanted no part in the murder, so he tried to get out of it by having an honest conversation with Cecilia. Luke thought he was dealing with a rational mind. And how do you think Cecilia responded? Well, she returned to Scripture. Reminded them that they were God's soldiers, following in the footsteps of King David. Luke later testified in court that Zach once threatened his life after Luke

questioned the way Cecilian EPD conducted themselves. He just warned me that I still think he liked his wife and did we she in the darkness. Now both Luke and Joshua's only hope for survival depended on Luke's bravery. He desperately needed to collect evidence to prove they were planning this murder. Then he could go to the police, but he had to do it before the hammers, knives and axes came out for him. I didn't know what to do anymore. I just prayed, and I also know what to give me strength and everything and lead me because if I'm going to get cold, I'm going to die like Makaya.

Court hearings revealed that Cecilia ordered LaRue to dig three graves, all in different locations. That way, EPD had options for where to bury Joshua's body. Luke the Infiltrator was in over his head. You are such a skater but you can't show it. You need to surface everything in your inside because if I can get a glimpse of something, especially as a CEO, that it's game over for you. All systems were go and Luke wanted out. Despite his ever-present fears, Luke kept searching for evidence to incriminate the members of EPD.

He needed hard proof. Luckily, finding it didn't take too long. Luke, this person admitted to my client on a white week long. And I found it in his outskirts. It was time. I want to be killed. I'm not promising that, scabbard. It was time. Luke went to the police. We need good security, Holt. That's right now we need to get the picture.

That detective is Colonel DeYager, the one who was so fixated on the Satanic angle. DeYager was Luke's only contact in the crew's door police at this time. So I made this Colonel one day. I it gave me a type recorder, because it let him get the confession on tape, it's immediate arrest. I suffered from acne into my thirties. I had tried everything from pills and creams to painful treatments and nothing seemed to work. Then a friend told me about skin laundry. She'd been getting their laser facials and said they were effective and did not require any downtime.

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Wow, thanks Grandpa. But he'll never forget how you invested in his future with the UNESTAB. Wow,, Grandpa. Don't just give them any gift. Give them a gift that can grow with them. Invite grandparents and family friends to contribute to your child's future with the UNESTAB. UNESTA is an investment account for kids that makes it easy to gift funds that can be used for college tuition, their first home,

and more, just by sharing the link. Or include a UNESCO QR code on party invitations for birthdays and holidays. For a limited time, download the UNESCO app and use the code iHeart50 at Sign Up to receive a $50 bonus when you fund your account. That's code iHeart50 when you sign up at UNET.co for a $50 bonus. See terms and conditions at UNES.co. It's now December 2012, summer in South Africa, dusk.

Luke is now working undercover for the police. Sum summoning all the courage he can muster. His plan is to record the killers from EPD, get them to confess to all four murders. Natasha and Joy, Pastor Reginald Bendixson and Mikaela Valentine. Once he gets them on tape, he'll step outside of Cassana flats and signal to the police. At least those are the orders Luke's been given. I had a pocket in my leaf chrome with my bike ejected and recorded with saves. He arrives at Cecilia's place. Nothing out of the ordinary.

They meet there regularly. Luke plays it cool at first. He has a plan to get them talking. I lead in this whole conversation and we spoke about everything. Luke breaches the subject of murder. It's a risky move. He asks how they did it. True to their nature as amateur cutthroats, Cecilia, Zach and Miranda openly confess, boasting

about the kills. On 81 days, I got everybody to confess about the murders and everything and I planned the next murder. That's right, all four murders and the plans to kill Ria's son, Joshua. As the night wears on, a bad feeling creeps over Luke. This shroud of anxiety and adrenaline peeks as he looks around the room, and he realizes Zach is missing. When I was talking to his assider, he saw this at bed, and I know how they work, and you

just know a little voice inside of my mouth. You just won't be just thinking of stuff and go. Just got to get out of here. Luke immediately wonders. Did I ask too many questions? Is this a psilionomy? Is that out there? Waiting for me in the dark?

I knew it's my time. I need to go now. Luke makes up a reason for why he has to bow out for the night. With the tape still rolling in his pocket, Luke steps outside. He have expects a flurry of police activity, but the night is quiet. Luke stands at the top of the Cassana Flats complex He wasn't there, so things are added one-on-one together. It was a secret. Luke stands at the top of the Cassana Flats complex steps. His breath quickens. On his way down the stairs, he glimpses a sign that reads danger.

It's a private property sign. He's read it a million times. But this time, it's different. That's when Luke hears at Little Voice once again. I had to run for one of my commercial movies, but it's a big mark. First, he had to go back to Zach and Michaela's to get his stuff, but he only had his motorcycle. So I got a mobile, I could drive to Zaks' house.

Fear rushes through him as he steps in his axe apartment. Zach isn't there, thank God. Luke springs in action, calling a friend to come get him while he grabs what he can. To almost half a hundred kids, he looks like a split second. In his panic, he can't seem to find his ID card and some other personal documents. Could Zach have stolen them? Anything is possible with this group. Soon, his friend pulls up and looks sneaks out the back door.

He jumps in the car and frantically tells his friend to drive. Fast, he's alive, and that's what matters. We're not just got out of the gate into the bush, they must be cocks coming in. You know we need your time and of course my time. After McAle's murder, Detective Susette Kenosai was brought onto the case. With her background in the occult-related crimes unit, the department thought it was only apt for her to evaluate these suspected satic slangs and lender expertise.

Unlike Colonel Diagger and Captain Ben Vic, Detective Susette didn't put much faith in the notion that Satanists were killing innocent people. She thought it was far more mundane than that. But then, a strange meeting with Rhea Grinavald challenged that suspicion. This happened before she had been fully briefed on Mikaela's murder. She wanted to hear Rhea's side of things. Rhea requested that they speak in a public place, the location, the diner. The same place where Cecilia had threatened Rhea months before.

This time, Rhea brought along a group of parishioners to act as spiritual bodyguards. I was sitting in the middle of a half-circle around the table. And obviously I found that kind of odd. She told me they are praying because Celia is a witch. She can hear everything that reassess. So while these people sit there praying, Sīlā will not be able to hear. Riyā was wary of Detective Susat.

You could hear she trusted no one because Sīlā installed this in her. Riyā was traumatized. I mean, who wouldn't be? All Rhea could do was lean on her faith. She asked me the question, are you a Christian? I said, well, it's irrelevant what religion I am. I'm here to help you. There was murders that taken place and apparently you can help solve them. So it's irrelevant what religion I am. But okay, I will tell you, I am a Christian. But it's good nothing to do with this. and what religion I am, but okay, I will tell you I am a Christian. But it's good nothing to do with this. Whether the Satanists, the police were after were real or imagined,

until Detective Su-Zet confronted them, the police department would continue to fumble justice. So, she would have to face the religious implications of these crimes, objectively, and head on. Lucky for the people of Krugerstor, Detective Susette is not someone who shies away from challenges. She's one of the few who willingly runs towards them. In this high crime area, the SAPS was overwhelmed by new cases popping up every day, so it was weeks before Detective Sushek Kanotsai was even briefed on the crimes. Finally, she was called in for a meeting with superiors on the police force to discuss

the case. Colonel DiYager was also at this meeting. He sat next to her in the department's conference room and insisted. This is Satanism. This is Satanism because there is no blood on the scene and they took all the blood and I was like, what? As we heard last episode, Colonel DeYagur thought that the quantity of blood found at the scene didn't match the severity of Reginald Bendixen's wounds, which to him implied the killers collected the blood and drank it or used it in some satanic ritual. His theory didn't sit well with detective Susette. This guy is lying on the grass. What are you saying? And I said,

sorry, who are you? And he says, oh, I'm going to the other. He says, he's the expert on satanism. He says he's the expert on satanism and I thought, okay, sorry where are you from? In my 13 years of a cold related crimes, I have never met him, never knew about him, nothing. What he is saying is absolute bullshit. Can I say that? Yeah. Detective Suzanne had actual science on her site. A blood expert she brought in agreed that the blood had clearly been absorbed by the earth and grass the victim was lying on, which blew holes into Yager's theories of Satanism and witchcraft.

And I ask him, where did you hear this? And he says, no, he spoke in Tukinol Junker. And obviously he does not know my connection to Tukinol Junker. Colonel Junker, founder of the occult related crimes unit, was practically family to Susette. And I said, okay, just hang on a minute. Now, when outside, fun, Tukinol Junker, Tukinol. Who's Tukinol Deocher? He says, I don't know. I said no man, he said, he spoke into you

and gave him a little of the cruxist all the time. Oh, that's correct. A guy phone me, he says, listen sir, I know nothing about the occult and I'm handing this guy's and I need to get a crush course in there." Detective Susette was wholly convinced if the cops ever wanted to solve the growing

number of murders in Kruger's doorp and all over the country that have to give up the obsession with Satanism. They were sensationalizing these crimes, but perhaps that was on purpose. You see, the deeper Susette waited into the serial murder investigation, the more she began to notice how incompetent both the Jagger and Van Vick were as officers. For example, remember how Miranda's fingerprints were found on the newspaper on Ria's porch? Captain Van Vick proposed at the time that the fingerprints could have been planted. He said prosecutors were concerned that Ria could have attempted to frame Miranda.

That was his claim then. And he maintained the explanation years later when speaking to us. The reason for them not placing the case was the fact that the prosecutor said that Miranda De prozokite zei dat Miranda en Rijgrunewald zijn neibers. En die het prozokite van het zoon was dat Rijgrunewald zouden tekenen van Miranda's duspengen en het plan was als everderings te brengen. Wow, dat is een beetje een reager. Wow, that's a bit of a reach, huh? However, according to Detective Canotsay, Miranda was released from police custody for a procedural bungalow.

She still gets frustrated when she recalls how it all went down. Ria could have framed Miranda? To her, that sounded like. Well, shit, that's not how Miranda got off. I can show you looking the dockets. That's what Bambik said to us. No, he's lying. He just doesn't want

to bring that up. What happened was, from Vike wrote the wrong case number down. It went to court. And when he came in court, Miranda couldn't be placed in this case because this case was something about fifth or something. And I said, but she can't be connected to this guy. Von Weig wrote the wrong number down and she was let go. That is what happened. With Detective Suzette officially at the helm, the police would be forced to stop chasing imaginary sadness. And it wouldn't be long before she gathered enough evidence to scare EPD in hiding. long before she gathered enough evidence to scare EPD in hiding. It was often the McEyla story, the police, sort of came onto the scene and they were very suspicious. I suffered from acne into my 30s.

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While the hysteria of the 90s has long passed, the fear of Satanism still remains in the ether. Yet according to Detective Suzette Canote's a journalist Yana Marks, Detective Ben Boison, Colonel Cobus Yonker, and almost everyone else we spoke to. The fact that the police jumped to this conclusion that Satanists were behind the grizzly murders definitely set the cops off course. And in doing so, placed far more lives and danger.

But what's the Yager's assessment entirely wrong? Cecilia claimed a lineage of witches and that she'd been possessed by Satan, even becoming his bride. Yet, she gathered up a flock of Christians and made them believe that she was a vehicle for God's mission. It seems, regardless of which side she was on, Cecilia had a bit of a Messiah complex. According to her, she had been tempted by Satan and her followers were the way out of his grasp. This was the story she told them, that they were

the key to her salvation, and delivering her from this temptation insured all of them a special place in heaven. Together, they would make God's plans real. Even if doing so men compromising all morals and going against their fellow humans. It's all extremely convoluted. Colt leaders often keep details so vague that even their followers have trouble fully understanding what all is happening. She did this with the orphanage, the reasons for the murders, and even her own origin story. So we wanted to get to the bottom of her actual beliefs. Did she believe in anything at all, or was this all simply a way to manipulate others

for her personal game? Was Satanism just a red herring used by Cecilia and maybe Deyagr to? To throw everyone off the scent? Or is it possible that what Cecilia was claiming was true? We asked Luke, who had a front row seat to her chaos, was Cecilia ever actually a Satanist? I told Philly. Yeah, that's one of those bullshit.

Rias Mentor, the psychologist F.H. Havinga, agrees with Luke's assessment. Havinga consulted the police on a cult and satanic cases for the majority of his career. This is not satanism. This is something else. And that's what I said. That was my advice to Colonel X. Not knowing that Quibbosh Yonkhar god's esteem exactly the same. Journalist and author Yana Marx had similar opinions.

I realized, I mean, I know Christianity and Cicilia's idea of Christianity that she preached wasn't Christianity like Christians would know. It's almost a fabrication of Christianity. You know there are different sects in Satanism, which one is she following? And I realized, oh my goodness, she's following everything and nothing. She took a little bit from the air, from the air. She actually copied even American serial killers, a little bit of Charles Manson, you can see a bit of sons of Sam,

and she just called that whole thing, Satanism. Cecilia studied masters of manipulation, and she knew enough about the Bible to braid together whatever she found, to conjure the effect she was after. Her twisted form of faith created a shadowy kingdom, and Cecilia cast herself as the queen. And as Detective Su Susette discovered, this kingdom was built on some careful study.

When we went to search the apartment, we had a warrant. Early on, in her investigation, Detective Susette was granted a search warrant based on her discussions with Rhea. I went into Cecilia's room, started looking at, I came upon two of Colonel Junkus, a cult books that he wrote. It was hidden the two books. So is that page through the books?

I saw certain pages, these little notes made in it as if she, oh, this I can use, this I can use. It was like she needed info from the occult to present to the people for them to believe that she was actually a sataness. And that was how I picked up. She knew nothing about the occult. Detectives who's at suspicions were confirmed when she spoke to Cecilia. So, to asking her some questions about the occult, she couldn't answer me. Then Cecilia told the detective that she had the power to shapeshift and ability left over from her days as a satanist.

And I said, oh, so you can shape shift and she said, yes, she can. She said, okay, let me put you into handcuffs and then you shape shift into a little bird for me and then you come out of my handcuffs. And then suddenly she jumps at the back of her couch and she sits there and she chips like a little chip sounds. Now I'm thinking, oh you look ridiculous. And I said, Sili, I'm talking shape shifting. You're still a human.

You have to shape shift. You have to get out of my handcuffs. And she couldn't, and she told her, you look ridiculous, get off your couch and answer my questions. That was when Cecilia's facade dropped. She stopped pretending and acted like nothing had happened. So she said, took off the handcuffs and continued her line of questioning. She was never a sight in this. Maybe she dabbled as a 13-year-old

whatever, but she knew nothing about a call she just was pertaining. Cecilia's only devotion was to Cecilia and was always about her. Well, her and her other fixation. I just want to keep this it's actually too much to do with it. It's pure revenge. It's down to see the last time I had four. I really want to know. So I suppose the answer to our question is a resounding yes. The whole Satanism thing became a distraction because that's exactly what Cecil you wanted.

That's how she avoided getting caught. But what about Colonel DeYagher? Was he her willing ally? Perhaps he was afraid of her. Perhaps she paid him off. Perhaps he was just friends with Dreeze, Cecilia's husband, and was just doing his friend a favor. Whatever the case, something wasn't quite right.

When questioned about his involvement after the case, something wasn't quite right. When questioned about his involvement after the fact, Dries denied knowing anything about EPD's activities, but journalist Yana Marx thinks this is a stretch. He did work night shifts at the time, so the possibility that he wasn't a way of everything going on, but he's definitely a way of some of it. And here's Kobus Yonker again. Susette's mentor and founder of the occult-related crimes unit. Up to now, I will never believe

that he didn't know anything that was going on. He didn't hide everything. He didn't even know that Cecilia was involved. That's the biggest life. I mean, he had to know something. It was all going on right under his nose. Plus, Dries benefited from all the money that was coming in. The money that was certainly not going to an orphanage.

Susette and Ben put it into perspective for us. Dries was a sergeant. Suselia did not work. So, sergeant's salary is to laugh about. It's very low. Now you step into this free bedroom place. What you see? First thing you see is these two kids playing on a huge. I cannot afford that. His wife buys him big-skinned TV. She buys him six bucks. She buys him a motorbike. She doesn't work. She doesn't have income. And he doesn't ask for ways the money coming from. And that money would soon run out.

It's now late February, 2013. Our friend Luke has been living in abject terror for months. After his first attempt to work with the police failed, Luke tried again. He heard there was a new officer overseeing the investigation. When Luke met with Suzette, he told her it was dire that they act fast. Suzette immediately reached out to Joshua and told him to go into hiding. Luke told her everything he knew, including how the Jagger left him high and dry after the tape recording debacle.

And there was something else suspicious. Colonel Jagger visited Cecilia's place in the weeks leading up to Michaela's murder. Plus, as far as Luke could tell, the cops had barely investigated Michaela's death. Luke met with detective Susette at a restaurant and went over the evidence he'd gathered. He told her about the wig and the recordings of EPD's candid confessions. He'd brought his friend Arya along, the one who had first introduced him to Cecilia. But then, Luke was the victim of a suspiciously timed theft while he was meeting with Detective Susette. Luckily, the tape recording of the murder confessions wasn't in the car. He had already handed them

over to his friend Arya who had been supporting him through the sting operation and helping him communicate with Diagre. Despite what had happened, she gave the tape to Diagre, hoping he would get it into the right hands. Luke did bring Susette the wig he'd found in Zac and Michaela's house and laid out the whole story of all that he'd witnessed. Just his head. 1415 pages of F&D, telling me exactly how the crew works, and then he was asked to help with this consturacy of murder

with Rias' son. He was confident the tape was damning. Both he and Arya had listened to it before it landed in the Yager's hands. We picked the tape and listened to it before it landed in the Yaggar's hands. We took the type of listen to it, there was nothing wrong with it. Unfortunately, by the time the tape made it to court, it could no longer be played. When it got too cool, it was damaged, it couldn't use it. So I just, just hold so for me that the police didn't... ...a photo happened to the job.

Except for Detective Susette. I know she did an utmost best, but if they just listened and did something, she could have prevented the rest of the murderous McGynaval and then she'd have been the last one. I never thought they... She should have been the last one. I have a good start today. Based on the evidence Luke handed her, Detective Suzzette felt confident the case would go to trial. She brought it to the state's attorney and it was passed up the chain of command. She agrees that she's going to put this through to the senior state,

African, to say, okay, give me the erased warrants. Detective Suzzette assumed this serial murder case would be a clear priority. While she waited for a decision on the arrest warrants, arrangements were made to protect Luke. Luke finally felt safe, out as Cecilia's reach. But then, and yet another unthinkable twist, the senior state attorney claimed there wasn't enough evidence to move forward on the case. I just say no, there's not enough evidence.

Despite everything Detective Su's ad had, Luke's testimony, the recorded confessions, the wig, the various eyewitnesses. She was denied in a rest warrant. The senior standard journey said, no, it's not consistent. Like all it was inconsistent, anybody in the right mind can have two dear-saddedance consistent. Everyone was floored. It shocked me. It shocked the other in the ACcating officer, it shocked the state attorney. It was a decision, the senior state attorney made that nobody knows why.

Detectives who said argued that the members of VPD could be arrested on the charge of conspiracy to murder. Then, once they add them in custody, the police could find other charges, or at least leads that they could follow to get out in front of the murders before they continued. But the state attorney claimed that they didn't want to risk losing the prime suspects if their arrest tactic didn't work. They said no, then we're going to jeopardize the murder. We rather attack them on the murder. In one of our earliest interviews with Detective Susette, we asked her about how she dealt with

the fact that seven more deaths would occur before anyone would get justice. This was actually a huge part of the reason that she felt moved to speak with us and help tell this story. I don't think there's a lot of people out there that actually knows this, and that's a huge thing for me, thinking about the families of number 5-11. Now, a new question hung in the air. Could Cecilia's reach have extended

to the senior state's attorney's office? She couldn't be that powerful. Could she? On the next episode of Queen Havik. Eventually there was no money in India. He introduced the Myers as victims for a robbery because he was under the impression they kept millions hidden in his safe in cash. Zachwin Berserk.

And they had to tell him, listen, you have to finish now because we need to get out of here. Something really bad is going to happen in the near future. Queen Havec in her murder cult is a production of School of Humans and I Heart Podcasts. Queen Havec is hosted and created by me, Kurt Kubicek, produced and written by Jennifer Tekeene, Julia Kriskaow, and Kurt Kubicek. Leadini, Julia Krisco, and Kirk Kupichek. Lead producer is Julia Krisco. Story editor is Zaryn Burnett.

Senior producer is Amelia Brock. Production manager is Daisy Church. Original music composed by Claire Campbell. Editing, sound design, andoring by Jesse Nyzwanger. Associate producers are Dashin Moodley and Jamein Kriger, additional producing by Ben Melman, fact-checking by Dennis Webster. Recording engineers are Graham Gibson, Clay Hillenberg, and Josh Hook.

Rindestine was read by Angelique Pratorius. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, LC Crowley, Brandon Barr, Jennifer Tkini, and Kurt Kubuchek. We want to thank all of those who so generously welcomed us in South Africa and shared their stories. We're incredibly grateful to you all. We also want to acknowledge how traumatic these events are for the victims and their families.

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