Rates & Barrels - Baseball's Ratings Bump & The Youth Movement Continues

Episode Date: August 21, 2020

Eno, Britt & DVR discuss the elevated ratings for early-season baseball, the continued promotion of top prospects -- including Joey Bart and Sixto Sanchez -- Slam Diego, a Subway Series on hold and what they're looking forward to seeing on the field this weekend. Rundown2:36 Baseball Consumption is Up!10:22 The Youth Movement Continues20:17 Difficulties with Player Development at Alternate Sites25:47 Slam Diego & A Challenge for Trade Deadline Buyers33:40 Mets-Yankees Weekend Series Postponed41:23 Thom Brennaman's Homophobic Slur & Failed Apology51:22 What We’re Looking Forward to This Weekend Follow Eno on Twitter: @enosarrisFollow Britt on Twitter: @Britt_GhiroliFollow DVR on Twitter: @DerekVanRiper Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Rates and Barrels, episode number 128. It is Friday, August 21st. Derek Van Riper, Eno Saris, Britt Giroli here with you on this Friday. Lots of fun stuff to talk about this week. We have a ton of prospects that have been called up over the last few days. We have some updated ratings for early season baseball action, and those are up as well. We'll dissect why that is the case

and figure out what's going on in that corner of the world. We're going to talk about some surprise teams again. I think the San Diego Padres, now known as the Slam Diego Padres, are becoming more fun by the day. So we're going to take a closer look at them. A few downside negative sort of topics

we'll get to at the end of the show. I think you guys all know the bad things that have happened in baseball. So we're not going to ignore them, but we're just going to save them for later because fun stuff is, well, Friday. It's better to talk about. It's Friday. Let's enjoy some of the good things in baseball because there are lots of good things in baseball. How's it going for you on this Friday, Britt?

Good to know that all the baseball is dying group is probably a tiny little minority. It might surprise you guys that the most negative people are probably the ones who are yelling all the time. So it's good to know. Good to know people still enjoy watching baseball. I've thoroughly enjoyed watching the shortened season so far. So it's going well. Can't complain. How you doing, Eno?

It's good. It's good. I'm back. I'm back on the horse after going out into the wilderness. I agree. I think baseball might be the least affected on TV when it comes to not having fans and stuff. I've been watching some basketball, and for some reason, the basketball seems the most hollow in a way um i don't know if it's the fake fan noise or just um how i expect what i expect out of the two sports i think it might be a little bit of that because when i watch baseball i don't

necessarily expect a huge roar of the crowd especially since like i'm in the bay area and there's a lot of oakland games where there's like 2,000 people. The roar of the crowd is occasional. So in that way, I think baseball, when you watch it on TV, seems the most normal right now. I think it's interesting because baseball has stuck to a very normal schedule. When we knew we were going to get a shortened season, we thought about life where people are home a lot more with their work. We thought maybe we'd see a lot of day games. And I think we're seeing a pretty normal Wednesday getaway day, Thursday getaway day, Sunday afternoon, of course, Saturdays, Cubs playing some day games on Fridays. That kind of stuff is all normal. And then compared to other sports, like the NBA, where we have a Raptors-Nets game tipping off at 10.30 a.m. Pacific on Friday, your ratings are going to be good, comparatively speaking.

You're going to lose ratings running an NBA game up against the Price is Right. It doesn't matter if it's a playoff game, and they're not going to run LeBron. LeBron versus the Price is Right, okay, LeBron's going to get a better rating, but that's about it, right? Even the defending champs can't beat the prices, right? So I think what Major League Baseball did by not shuffling the schedule around has proven to be a good choice, and I would have projected the opposite. I thought people were going to be consuming games more throughout the afternoon, maybe because there's more out there too. It's also daytime ratings getting split up over a bunch of different

things. But have you guys found that your consumption of baseball is more than a normal season, same as a normal season or less? I know Britt being a writer, you're at the ballpark probably a bit less than you would be ordinarily. You're not traveling to road games. Your consumption has to be up a little bit, right? Yeah, I'm watching a lot more baseball. And also, guys, I don't have a life, right? We're still in the pandemic. We have nothing else to do. So the Nats got rained out on Thursday.

I was sitting there and I'm like, well, what else is on then? In a normal life, I might have been like, oh, a night away from the ballpark, maybe I'll call an old friend and we'll get dinner or we'll go do something. But I was home alone. My husband was out of town and I'm like, I'm just going to watch some other games. So for me, yeah, I am watching a lot more baseball. I don't have a life.

None of us do. None of us do. I think also baseball is the best sport, like Eno was saying, it's the best sport for an ambient background. I could put a game on and do laundry and cook dinner and stuff and still listen to what's going on and be used to kind of that random crowd noise even though it's not the same as a regular game or as it's just basketball it's just kind of weird right and then hockey too like when are

these games on it's a little bit trickier to find them so um as much as i was among the whole like let's make games earlier and i still believe six o'clock over these 7 30 um games would probably be better for the sport uh i am shocked by the fact that a lot of young people and a lot of females are watching these games um i didn't know that everyone else was as lame as me but it is good to know i think it comes down to that fact that we just don't have a life. You know, it's like there are a lot of options that we would like to that we would do instead of baseball. I think that's why the young people are watching more, because it's on at a time that they would normally have gone out to dinner or gone to a bar. And, you know, some places those things are open, but most places are not really um and they're also fraught with more risk i think so even young people are just like

you know that's risky or i could just stay home and watch a baseball game and this is kind of fun and a lot of the places where the ratings are up are places where the teams are good so minnesota cleveland so maybe it's like a new project. I've watched everything on Netflix. I've watched everything on HBO. I really, there's not that many places I can go to go out and it seems kind of risky to do so. And hey, the twins are good. The Indians are good. Let me watch this. This is kind of fun. Let me get into this. And I don't have to think about 162. It's like, I don't have to watch this for six months. I actually only have to watch it for like three more weeks to get something out of it.

You know, so like, let's do this. I thought Ethan Strauss wrote a really good piece for us about, you know, the role of politics and how the NBA's ratings are down. But I do think it missed some of this that we're talking about, because, you know, when the games are on, the fact that the NBA is in a bubble, it only has like two courts and has to play all their games on these two courts and has to just keep playing in order to get the season done or to get the pro season done. I think that's meaningful because every league did something political. There was a moment where every league did something political and every league, there

were people on Twitter saying, I'm not going to watch hockey anymore. I'm not going to watch basketball anymore. I'm not going to watch baseball anymore. I'm not going to watch basketball anymore. I'm not going to watch baseball anymore. And I, maybe those people stop watching. I'm not going to speak for those people, but I don't think that those people represent a huge portion of the ratings. You know what I mean? Like, I think just looking at these baseball ratings says something like, oh yeah, they all knelt and it was okay.

You know, we got past it, you know, it's fine. You know, and more people are watching now so um i i think there was something interesting about that choice between doing a bubble and having to do games all the time all day and uh baseball's choice to kind of do things normal there are ramifications as we see from baseball's postponements uh where you know basketball has has had zero positive tests since they've gone into the bubble. So everything has its positives and negatives, I guess. Yeah, I guess the question is, do you want to fight with the pandemic and play outside of the

bubble? Or do you want to minimize the impact of the pandemic and hurt your TV ratings? Which is weird. It's kind of a twist that we didn't really expect. Maybe that does have some influence in how baseball tries to structure its 2021 season. And we've kind of hinted this before. It's just too early to know what that's really going to look like. Hopefully, they're having conversations about it. Hopefully, there's a lot of care and detail being put into various scenarios. But they're thinking right now about the bubble for the playoffs.

And so, you know, they're looking at basketball. And I mean, I guess if we're going to do predictions here, I might predict that they don't do a bubble for the playoffs. But that it just gets riskier because now everything's on the line. And now you're like, oh, crap, the Yankees just, you know, eight people just went down with COVID and they're in the playoffs, you know. So I think that's a really interesting decision that's on people's plates. And it's a difficult one. It's in some ways a grave one, in some ways not as grave, but it's definitely way more nuanced than I think I figured going in.

I thought I was very pro bubble and I didn't really see this as a possible negative consequence. Right. I wonder too, guys, if the fact that this season is so trunicated that people are tuning in because their team is still in it, right? Like the Orioles had this surge in the beginning. The Padres are so fun that like right now, if I see the Padres on, I'm like, oh, I'm going to watch them them they have become a must watch and no team besides maybe the pirates right is really like out of it already and all these games like we're saying like you're saying you know you don't have to watch six months you only have to watch a few more weeks and you know that each game is important and so all these fan bases who kind of had this football mentality can kind of have that to some extent where every series is so important and,

you know, it's kind of like a, the playoffs before the playoffs. And I don't know if that adds some of the numbers and the intrigue to it as well. You know, there's a lot of people who I know that are casual fans that don't pay attention to baseball until after the all-star break.

So are those people now like all in, because here we are, you know, we're in the stretch already which is crazy but also makes it a little more exciting yeah i think 27 out of 30 teams have playoff odds of at least 10 which is the byproduct of 16 teams making the postseason and the parity that you're going to get season yeah over a shortened season right so and even one of those three teams that has a sub 10 playoff odds is the tigers and they brought up prospects that's the other way to sort of drive interest in your team right bring up terryk scoobel bring up casey mize bring up isaac paradez

like make the product on the field better and people will watch and i've heard there are actual fans that will decide, based on the quality of the team, whether or not they're going to watch. Not everyone watches every game just because they love the team. Eventually, fans say, hey, it's August. It's late August. This team's not going to the postseason. I'm going to go outside and play fetch with my dog, or I'm going to flip over to the NBA or NHL bubble, or I'm going to go back and watch Tiger King for the 11th time on Netflix. People eventually just say, the casual fans at least, just say, this team sucks. I'm not going to spend my time watching a team that sucks when I can do something else, even though that

something else is a shorter list of options than it normally is. Yeah. Back when we had fans in seats, the one major predictor of whether or not of attendance basically was how good the team was. one major predictor of whether or not of attendance basically was how good the team was. You know, people talk about major acquisitions like signing Bryce Harper or major call-ups, and the bumps for those are very, very small and very temporary. You might get some jersey sales out of signing a Bryce Harper, but you don't necessarily get attendance just from Bryce Harper. You get it more from Bryce Harper making the team better. And, you know, I think that's really really interesting that a team like the Nationals,

the Phillies, Philly's Twitter is just very aggrieved. Oh, God. They remind me a little of Mets Twitter. It's just like, ah, not this again. Even when Vince Velasquez is just tearing through the lineup and just doing well, they're all like, ah, homers coming. And then the homers came. They were right.

And the Phillies blew that lead. But they're 9-12. I mean, it takes like one good series and they're back in it. So, yeah, I think. But, you know, I also think that one thing that's fun about this season, I don't know if I'm just saying this off the cuff, and it's not necessarily an analytical thing to say, but it feels like the young players are, like, leading the charge, and that there's, like, a lot of new faces, and even when we're arguing about Tatis swinging

3-0, which is, like, the dumbest argument ever, it seems like most of us agree that he should have swung 3-0 and he's like one of the most exciting players ever. And I did a radio hit where we're talking about, you know, what's his upside? Is he going to be the best player in baseball? And what does he need to do to be the best player in baseball? And so, you know, we have him, we have other flashpoints, like even Nate Pearson, who struggled when he came up, he's thrown a 100 for the Blue Jays. He gets our attention. Casey Mize in a duel with another rookie call-up, Dane Dunning, against the White Sox, where both these guys are pitching their first games, and they both get six strikeouts in four innings.

When I think of that, I don't think of Jelich and Ballinger. They're struggling, so maybe that's just a random thing but they're not necessarily the faces of baseball right now we're we're every day we're hearing about a new call-up a new face like joe adele a dylan carlson and we're getting these we're getting this infusion um and maybe not all of them are hitting the tar off the ball but they're you but that's what's leading the conversation right now. Young teams, young players, exciting new faces. And I think that might be part of the ratings thing, even though that's not necessarily traditionally been a driver of attendance.

And I don't often feel old, but Brits covering a player in D.C., Luis Garcia, who was born in the spring of 2000. May 16, 2000, Luis Garcia, a was born in the spring of 2000. May 16th, 2000. Luis Garcia, a 20-year-old, came up. And he's been young for the level everywhere he's played, which really adds a lot of context to the lack of offensive output last year at AA especially. I think when you see a player get to the big leagues that quickly, you realize they can get a lot better really fast. And it's interesting that he's replacing a guy who flew through the minor leagues

in Starling Castro. He's, of course, out with that broken wrist. But Britt, when you watch Luis Garcia, he probably looks like he's older than 20 in terms of how he plays the game. Sure, his face and his body and the way he actually physically

looks, he looks like a 20-year-old every bit of of the way but i think he probably already conducts himself and looks like a big league player in many ways yeah what's funny is he's younger than soto and so soto was like am i old now we're like no you're 21 like no but you think about it and this is Juan Soto's third year in the league and you know him and Akuna who um you know had been sidelined with the the wrist issue but uh Soto is becoming like one of the best players in the game if not you know already there in that conversation certainly but um I think when you look at Garcia you're like yeah this guy is good and he's going to continue to get better and for the Nats and for I think a lot of at Garcia, you're like, yeah, this guy is good, and he's going to continue to get better. And for the Nats and for I think a lot of these other teams, it's like what is the downside to bringing a young guy up now?

The season is so bizarre. If he struggles, it's like, okay, he's not going to get heckled in opposing stadiums. And, you know, I think we talked about this in a previous week. Like, why not? Why not get people excited, get Tigers fans being like, you know what? Yeah, we probably suck. Like, we're not very good. But, hey, let's watch these young guys being like you know what yeah we probably suck like we're not very good but hey let's watch these young guys because you know they're exciting

and maybe i'll maybe i'll buy a 10 game pack next year to watch some of these guys so i think it's a smart marketing tool for teams i also think if if you're like a casual baseball fan or you're not familiar with baseball and you watch a team like the Padres, like how you see them celebrate and get loud and like, you know, you see them dancing and how can you not be like, oh, this is entertaining. I think we forgot. And what the older guards sometimes forgets is that like sports is entertainment. You don't like seeing a guy hit a home run, put his head down, not show any emotion is not very fun. Um, you know, we want to see because we're not able to be there. The fan experience is absent this year. We want to see them yell and scream

and swear and get mad and dance. I think that's even more important this year. The young guys aren't afraid to do that because a lot of them have been brought up that way. They haven't had, as Trevor Bauer said, the personality squeezed out of them yet. They haven't had the as Trevor Bauer said, like the personality like squeezed out of them.

Yeah, they haven't had like the PR people being like, listen, we're going to give you the whole it is what it is, like five phrases to say nonstop to the media. You know, they haven't had that yet. And so they're unafraid. And I think it's great. Well, it's like the it's the it's the future right now in Washington. I mean, basically, basically Keboom and Garcia are starting every day at second and third right I mean there is that do you think it's all just because of injury and stuff or I mean with that Struble Cabrera I'm seeing like there's some just being like hey we're just gonna play Keboom like like we're just gonna play him because we could play Cabrera at third almost every day and instead they're kind of uh pushing

Carrera to first do you think that's a defensive thing or that's just like a hey it's time well I think it's a combination of things Howie Kendrick has been dealing with a hamstring issue so he hasn't been able to play Eric Thames um was going to be a guy they rotated in had a slow start and Ryan Zimmerman opted out so they've kind of had a need to put somebody at first, but they also were really clear this spring before anything with COVID even hit that like, Hey, if he's going to make the team, he's going to play.

They did the same thing with Soto. They initially brought him up and Davey Martinez loves telling this story. Rizzo was like, Oh, you know, just platoon him. And then he kept playing well.

And they're like, well, we're not going to platoon this guy, you know? So I think the nationals to their credit have never been afraid to promote young guys and to just kind of let them sink or swim and to not play that oh let's only play them two days a week because i think it could be really hard for a young guy to get going that way right to have the comfort of knowing you're gonna play every day garcia was probably gonna be in double a this year if not you know if there was a minor league season, but there's not.

And now they're going to see what they have. Now they have a few months to actually see what's going on because of these alternate sites. Right. And there's, there's not really a game atmosphere. There's nowhere else for these guys to really progress. So why not just do it up here? Yeah.

I see just all the potential of the world for training staleness and just being bored and tired and just having no interest in showing up to work every day when you're at the alternate site. Not like those are even normal competitive games. Those are coaches filling in. I mean, that's like a high school practice sort of thing where you're playing a scrimmage and your assistant coach steps in and plays right field. And it doesn't feel the same as actually having a real game. And obviously, there's a pay component to this. And it's just not a good environment for player development. So I think there's this valuable currency that every team has. Even contending teams have to consider this when it comes to long-term development.

You have a finite number of plate appearances and innings available in games that count. So you have to look at your long-term pieces of your organization and say, how are we going to best serve ourselves and these players in the long run by using these limited at-bats and these limited innings. And I think teams have erred more on the side of saying, yeah, it's going to cost us that extra year, or yeah, it's going to cost us a little bit in arbitration. That's the more common thing. I think just about every team saved the extra year again, as they often do. I think that's the right call. I mean, I think players are going to be much better off in the long run. If Carter Keboom were sitting in the alternate site, it's terrible for his

development. It's worse than going back to AAA for half a season or an entire season if there were a minor league season. So I think largely teams have gotten this right in 2020. Yeah. And you mentioned a lot of interesting things about what's happening at the alternate site. Keith Law had a great piece about this. One of the things that I didn't even think about was no one's going to pitch inside. You're not going to pitch inside against your own guy

and break, especially if maybe they have more prospect pedigree than you. What if you're number 10 on the thinking scale? You're pitching to number one? You're not going to go break his wrist, dude. So no one's going to pitch inside. And we know from the major leagues, from research that the Pirates have done and other teams have, and I've done some a little bit of,

is that if you pitch inside first, the pitch away is more effective. I mean, it's like, duh, but it's something that we know that happens in baseball. So now you can mostly just dive over the plate against your own guys because they're not going to come in on you. And so that will lead to bad habits for the batters and the pitchers. And then on top of that, you're just seeing the same guys over and over again. So I was thinking about Joey Bart, and in the context of like saving your money or uh waiting uh you know the giants could have easily waited they're not necessarily out of it out of it 11 16 but they're

i have identified like maybe five or six sellers and they're one of them i think um and so they could have just kept joey bart down the other thing is, how many 32-year-old catchers, 31-year-old catchers do you want? How much is that next year important? I think it's more important that Joey Bart catches more different kinds of pitchers, gets to the major leagues and sees what major league pitchers are going to do to him, as opposed to the same not great pitching prospects that the Giants have. So he's going to see the same jabronis over and over again that are not pitching inside.

It's like, he's going to be like, I'm amazing. I'm the best hitter ever. And then he comes up to the big leagues. And last night it was like, oh, oh, that's what, that's what a major league at bat is like. He gets hit by a pitch, strikes out with the bases loaded. I mean, I thought he looked nice and quiet behind the dish, and I thought he looked like a good defensive catcher,

but they need to give him this time to figure out how good he is offensively. And they could have just gone with Mr. Trump, Chadwick Trump, and Tyler or Taylor Hanneman, I forget which one it is. But I think that that's another part. I think is. But I think that that's another part. I think you guys are right that that's another part. Like the Tigers are at 9-14. They could have said, hey, you guys just pitched down there. But getting Casey Mize up there and seeing, oh, like, you know,

I'm not just going to like get ground balls and strikeouts from everybody. Like I got to, you know, people are going to take me deep. So I thought that was, I think that's part of why we're seeing this rash of secondary debuts, other than the fact that it's like the Super 2 deadline, I mean, obviously. Right. I love the image of the number one prospect getting hit and that poor guy who might as well just pack his bags, right? It's like, all right, see you later, man. might as well just pack his bags, right? It's like, all right, see you later, man.

Yeah, it's worse if it's like number 30. Yeah, the number 30 prospect, the guy who's just barely in the bubble, you know? Exactly. I just remembered this story. Yohan Lopez, who's with the Arizona Diamondbacks, a few years ago, I think on a backfield, quick pitch, Dansby Swanson, when they were teammates in Arizona,

and hit him with a pitch. Knocked him out for several weeks and hit him in the face. Oh, my God. You're quick pitching your teammate? What are you doing? That's an all-timer. That's the worst possible thing you can do. It's like, oh, yeah, we drafted this guy 1-1,

and he got hit in the face with a pitch because someone quick pitched him on the backfield. Oh, God. Are you here about like the major leaguers who like rehab and they go to extended spring and they get crushed because these guys are just like first pitch hacking, right? Like I remember like Zach Britton once was like, I was just trying to work on my

sinker and you can't even work on anything because these guys are just swinging like trying to home run so they can like one day at the dinner table tell their kids that they hit a home run off Zach Britton on a backfield. So tons of fun players to watch. Garcia among them, the Tigers prospects. I talked about them a few days ago.

I think it does come down to when you're looking at these players from a fantasy perspective, we always say, what are you looking for? Luis Garcia might be the kind of player who's more glove first right now. Defense is ahead of the bat, but the bat's eventually going to get there. So you do have to be kind of careful when you look at these players. It's setting your initial sorts of expectations. I think Joey Bart is actually further along defensively than he is with the bat, even though he put up good numbers at double A. He can contribute offensively right away, and he probably will because of where they're going to hit him in that lineup. And then, you know, Sixto Sanchez, I think the Marlins, because of what they've been through so far this season, they're still sitting there at 500, right? I think they're 9-9 entering play

on Friday, so 13.7% chance of making the playoffs according to fan graphs, but they get hot for a weekend even. That's going to jump into like the 40% range, so there's a lot of variance with that number. Sixto is one of those guys who's got pretty good command. I think he's going to come up right away and pitch well. And I almost wonder if he's going to be a little bit overshadowed by Mize and Scooble in particular, just because with Mize, he's a guy that went 1-1 with Scooble. He's a guy we've talked about for a few years because the strikeout rates and the minors have been ridiculous. So don't sleep on Sixto as someone who's going to be fun to watch

when he debuts over the weekend. Let's talk about a few surprise teams and mostly focus on the Padres. I mean, as Britt said, they are having fun. And I love that they had grand slams. It was at four consecutive games now after what they did on Thursday and against the Rangers and after the comments from Chris Woodward earlier this week, which I think upon further reflection, I've acknowledged those are one step closer to being where managers should be. Because the actual quote that he said was,

the norms are being challenged on a daily basis. So just because I don't like it doesn't mean it's not right. So there's a little bit of like, okay, maybe my sensibilities are wrong. Maybe I, the 44-year-old, shouldn't be the one who dictates how the game is played by guys in their 20s. So I guess it's not as bad as I thought it was when it first happened, right? It's still not where we want to be. It's still not the conversation we want to have. But this Padres team, Eric Hosmer's hitting home runs. Edo and I talked about him back during draft season, and we kind of said, it's impossible. He can't hit the ball in the air. He hits the ball hard,

but he can't hit the ball in the air. And yet the impossible is happening. Best fly ball rate of his career, almost twice his regular fly ball rate. And so it's cool because like that's, that's like a subplot on a team that has probably the best player in baseball right now with Tatis Jr. And made that trade to get Trent Grisham, who's been a fun player to begin this season. They've been moving some guys around.

Jake Cronenworth's kind of a cool story. Like the more you dig in on Jake Cronenworth, the more you kind of appreciate that this guy has an unusual development path. He could actually pitch occasionally, more of a blowout scenario, but he wouldn't be the position player grooving the ball in there at 65 miles an hour. He'd actually probably throw a few BBs out there. So you can kind of look at every corner of this roster and you find a fun story. And then you've got some star power with Machado already being there as well to go with Tatis. So I think this is a team that's going to be active at the trade deadline.

They're going to try and get some more bullpen depth and fix an area that I thought was going to be really strong coming into the season. But as you guys start to think about what the trade deadline is going to look like, do you get the sense that the handful of teams that are clearly out of it just don't really have a whole lot to offer teams like San Diego who are trying to go all in in this shortened season? Well, I mean, the Pirates actually have a couple chips, right? Don't they have Kela? It's like a real hard-throwing guy who, the interesting thing to me

is going to be like, what are teams willing to give up? Because you're talking about a couple weeks and a season that, I think we're further away from it being shut down than we were at the start. Right. But still could be. So what do you do? Because the Nats bullpen terrible,

there have a lot of issues. The Phillies bullpen ERA, I believe is in the nines. Right. They've been miserable. The Padres. I mean, when the Tatis thing happened and they were up seven,

I had someone in the Padres organization text me like a seven run lead is not safe for our bullpen, you know, as great as they are, they've got some holes and they're not afraid to admit it. So I think there are going to be like, you know, maybe only a handful of teams that are like, yeah, this is not our year. Like, forget it, even though it's expanded. But I'm interested to see like what do teams give up do you give up a top 30 prospect for a couple weeks of a reliever i don't know

it's uh and then on top of that like not every team is sharing the data you know there's only uh 20 teams that are sharing video and data i think out of the 30 um and so i figure there's 10 teams that are just uh piecing out on trading like like you can't you're not going to trade based on data from last year you know and no looks so i feel like 10 teams we don't know which 10 teams they are have just basically said we're not trading this year you know like we're just not going to do it um and then on top of that yeah the return seems so so little uh it has to be teams that like feel like they're going to do it. And then on top of that, yeah, the return seems so little. It has to be teams that feel like they're going to do well in the postseason too.

So you're not just buying for the next two weeks. You feel like you're in the postseason and you're kind of buying to get better. So I doubt a team like the D-backs will make a big trade, right? Because they're 500. They kind of were projected to be a 500 team and they're playing like a 500 team. It's like, how far are they going to get in the postseason anyway? So, like, I doubt they'll make a trade. But the Padres being, you know, up, the Cubs, the Twins, Indians maybe,

like teams that are like, that feel a little better about themselves, or eight, seven, eight games over 500, I think they could still make trades. And the bullpen seems like the easiest way to do this. And I think there are some guys, you know, of varying degrees of expense. So, like, the Royals have Trevor Rosenthal. Probably not going to cost that much to get him. The Pirates have Keone Keeler and Kyle Crick.

It might not cost that much to get those guys. The Giants don't really have any relievers to sell. But the Mariners are developing a couple that could end up being good trade pieces. So that really handles most of the... The Red Sox don't have a single pitcher to sell. If you're going to talk to the Red Sox, you're going to get Mitch Moreland or something.

Right, right. Trevor Rosenthal is crazy. Last year in D.C., yips then I watch him the other night he's like locating a hundred um it's phenomenal I mean I don't know if the Nats would take any kind of flyer on that guy because he was such oh my god experience get him back yeah I know the wheels are the wheels are turning now I'm like what if I wrote that what a to happen. The wheels are turning now. I'm like, ooh, what if I wrote that? What a way to piss people off. But him and Daniel Bard are really kind of interesting because those two guys could not find the plate the last time we saw them. I mean, do you guys think, too,

that maybe, I guess, this trade deadline, teams will not go for the rentals and try to get guys that they can have under control for next year, too? I mean, does that become more important if they're going to trade at all? I don't know. I think that's the only way to get guys that they can have under control for next year too? I mean, does that become more important if they're going to trade at all? I don't know. I think that's the only way to get a quality prospect.

I mean, not to say that low-level prospects aren't quality players. To get a more established prospect, you're going to have to give up a player with years of club control left. And maybe we see something weird. I think we speculated on JD Martinez as a guy that could be one of the big names who possibly moves. And even that gets tricky because we don't know about the DH in the long run. Yeah, he's a $20-plus million-a-year player with two years left on the deal after this season.

Brandon Workman was a name we came up with yesterday. I mean, he kind of flipped through it. Yeah, there aren't that many high-quality bullpen arms on bad teams. He's got control left. Yeah, that's right. I think the big reliever with control left that could move. Yeah, I mean, that's about it. Bard's a great story.

I mean, he's 35. He was seven years between appearances in the big leagues, like Eno said. Couldn't find the plate last time we saw him. He's got a 14-to-1 strikeout-to-walk ratio. The velo's there. Get him out of Colorado, and he's really interesting. But Colorado, they're good. They're a possible playoff team they're doing well right now very few sellers i think mariners giants pirates royals tigers and red socks are the only sellers

it's not a it's not a long list and they're not very many good players on those teams that are not like part of the next nucleus you know yeah right there with you dugout mugs is a company that was started in the college baseball dugout hence the name dugout mugs they take the barrel of a baseball bat and turn it into a 12 ounce mug dugout mugs are licensed by major league baseball so you can have your favorite team logo laser engraved onto a birchwood baseball bat barrel mug they're perfect for the big game to on display, or to be the life of the party. And they make a great gift for any baseball fan. Go to dugoutmugs.com slash theathletic and use the promo code MLB30 for 30% off your first purchase.

That's dugoutmugs.com slash theathletic and code MLB30. All right, we want to start with the fun stuff on this episode because baseball is fun. And look, we still are playing baseball in a pandemic. And we got that reminder on Thursday. We got a cancellation for the Mets game on Thursday night. The whole series with the Yankees was just postponed before we started recording. And I think we have to just be optimistic that maybe this was caught quickly, and perhaps it can be more like the situation we saw with the Reds, where it's only a couple of days and they're able to do the proper contact tracing and maybe get things back on schedule coming out of the weekend, right? I mean, we do at least have one recent example that wasn't everything falling apart the way we saw with the Cardinals and earlier in the season with the Marlins.

Yeah, I mean, I guess I read that. And what confused me the most, and I don't know if you guys saw this or have the answer to this, is that they left. The Mets still traveled and weren't. Every other team, it seems, has been told to stay put and to quarantine. But the Mets did not. So I'm wondering, is that going to ultimately come back and bite them was that i guess it would have to be approved under mlb protocol right or they

would have gotten in trouble for it um you know what what exactly went into that because you are looking at those past cases and thinking all right let's not be the cardinals and the marlins you know let's be the reds let's find a way way to get around this quickly and deal with it quickly. So do either of you know what the deal is with that? Why they ended up traveling, I guess? I read one thing that said that they did the contact tracing and just felt like the one player and the one coach had been separate from other people.

And so they thought that not a lot of people had come into contact with them, so they thought they might be okay. I think that is interesting to ask that question, though, because it feels like we're learning, right? It feels like we've learned from the Marlins, we've learned from the Cardinals that maybe we're getting better at this, hopefully. Like the Reds, in particular to seem to have done it well.

Right. Like they've had a couple scares and they haven't had the whole team shut down and they've like managed to sort of navigate that terrible space, you know, where you're like, ah, we all going to have to like stop playing. And they've had games canceled, but they've gotten back on and like they nothing really bad has happened for the reds so the reds seem to have maybe learned from what's happened before so i'm hoping that in this mets case that we've learned and that but the one little thing is first lol mets it still lives uh and then second, just they don't have a good track record when it comes to

making good decisions about health. They just don't. And then third, what about this travel piece? Why did they travel? So I'm hoping that we've learned and that this will just be... And Mets and Yankees seems like might be easier to make up than anything else. So hopefully they'll just miss these three games. It sucks because they're always fun. But hopefully that we've learned and that will just be it. And then on Monday they'll be back to business. Yeah.

I feel like there's an easy joke in there that the Mets already opted out of the season, right? They're talking for this. like there's an easy joke in there that the Mets already opted out of the season right the Mets are probably the most made fun of team in rates and barrels history they're 12 and 14 61 chance of making the playoffs so you know a 16 team playoff is is kind to the Mets they have one pitcher they have one pitcher they I can't believe how decimated that starting staff has been. I thought it was a strength of theirs, and now they had to push Lugo back into the rotation. It's a good lineup, though. I think it's a good lineup, and that's a good place to start. Peterson not being hurt and him being better than maybe people expected. And, you know, there's still an avenue for them to make some noise this year and the postseason. But, God, it just seems like a broken record with them sometimes.

Yeah. I mean, if there was one team that was going to have a player opt out and pretend to not know about it and maybe know about it, it was going to be the Mets, right? I mean, it was going to be the Mets. mean it was gonna it was gonna be the mets yes though yo thing was very mets yeah that was yeah that was quintessential mets really probably gonna make the greatest hits album well i mean it had all the elements it had all the elements like burning the player before you know what exactly what's going on right totally mets and then on top of that, players knew.

So they didn't ask any players, hey, does anybody know where Yo is? No, they just went the security route where they're like, send a security guard in. Oh, he's not there. Oh, God, is he dead? I don't know. Let's burn him in the media. Yes.

He checked out and left the checkout screen up on the TV. Like, what does that mean? He just left. That's all it means. Ask the checkout screen up on the TV. Like, what does that mean? It's like, well, he just left. That's all it means. Ask the guy who was last near him. Yeah, right. Go to the players. Go to the clubhouse.

Dude, did anybody talk to Yo last night? Oh, yeah, I did. He said he's opting out and he's done. Okay. Oh. Right. Then I'll call his agent. We're going to be super transparent.

All right. Who's got questions left on Zoom? 20 people. All right. The Zoom super transparent. All right, who's got questions left on Zoom? 20 people. All right, the Zoom's over. Super transparent. Mets being Mets. I mean, that's just, that's how they roll. And I don't even blame the leadership at this point

because there's so many problems that have been the same for so long that it's obvious that it's not necessarily the current GM. You know what I mean? Like, what's the thing that's been the same for the Mets for a long that it's obvious that it's not necessarily the current GM. You know what I mean? Yeah. What's the thing that's been the same for the Mets for a long time? The owners. Right, right.

I mean, J-Lo is definitely going to straighten it out. Oh. I want that to happen. I really, really want that to happen. As much as I want pretty much anything in MLB ownership, that scenario, A-Rod and J-Lo owning the Mets, would be just amazing. A pretty sweet version of Major League with them as the owners.

Where are they going to try and move the team? To some island somewhere? Yeah, something. So it's like some private island that they bought? J-Lo comes in. She's just terrible terrible all the players and a rod is just like living off the money somewhere i think they should flip it i think i think a rod should be a rod to be the day you cannot tell me with the way a rod and jeter have that like animosity rivalry that a rod wouldn't and being in the same

division and oh my god that it wouldn't be just awesome, you know, that there wouldn't be some dartboard with Jeter's head on it in A-Rod's office, you know? I actually want the Wilpons that have to sell the team on Shark Tank. That's what I want to see. I tend to think that Cone would be better, but I was talking to somebody who was like, you don't know. You don't know who's a meddler before they get in there. You don't really

know who... None of these guys... No owner had previous relevant experience, right? So they're all kind of going in there blind and you kind of... You don't know. But I thought that Cohen would be better for investing in the infrastructure and

stuff like that. So I feel like J-Lo and that team, they're a little bit more stretched just to buy it. And we've seen that if you stretch to buy the team, sometimes that can create problems. Like with the Wilpons, there was a little bit of a stretching to buy the team. Just a little bit of stretching to buy the team. One more really negative story that we do need to talk about.

Reds play-by-play announcer Tom Brenneman using a homophobic slur on air, unbeknownst to him that he was on air at the time, of course. Totally inexcusable. And he's been let go by Fox Sports from his NFL duties, but right now he's just suspended by the Reds. I kind of feel like this is going to end up in Brenneman being fired. I don't have a take that hasn't really been put out there yet with this story. Obviously, what he said was wrong. I don't think you can, in one breath, say that,

and then a few breaths later say, oh, I didn't mean that. That's not who I am. No, that's exactly who you are. When the camera is on and when you know the mic is on, that's the tip of the iceberg, right? That's the person you want everyone to think you are. But the fact of the matter is you said what you said, everyone heard it, and you have to own that. So I think we have made a little bit of progress in that this is the type of thing that an announcer might've said even five years ago, but definitely like 10 years ago, that would not have necessarily been a fireable offense, right? We've at least got to the point where this is not tolerated as part of the conversation, which is a step forward. We still have a long way to go. What's your guys' take at this point, now that you've had a few days

to kind of see how this has played out? Well, I know about you you know but the apology is total total bs um the on-air one total bs the one in the inquirer where he wrote a letter pause to call a home run in the middle of it like that is gonna forever live in broadcast history right like the most awkward time i guess my thinking is a few things like one who uses that word i can't remember the last time i've heard that word um i'm not a baseball player so i don't regularly hear hecklers i would imagine that may be different for players um but in a regular adult arena like i don't know about you guys i can't remember the last time i've heard that word one two to immediately apologize to the people who sign your paychecks.

If I made a racist bigot remark unintentionally, I would immediately think about my friends who are gay, my brother in law who is a minority. Like I would immediately think of the people in my life I hurt. I would not immediately think about the company signing my paychecks. So I think I think it was a few things. The intent that he said it with, right? He claimed he didn't know what the word meant and then said it with a very negative connotation. He wasn't like describing his dog

or like the color of the room, right? And then he says later, I didn't know how hateful of a word it was. Oh, come on. You absolutely did. Right, you absolutely did own up to that. The tone of how he said it. Right, like you knew it. So you just can up to that. The tone of that, how he said it. Right.

Like you knew it. So you just can't blame that. I mean, so that was, I guess, my main issue with it was if you're going to apologize, if you're going to make a mistake, because I think we've all made mistakes. We've all said things, done things we didn't mean, you know, especially in 2020. You know, you're constantly and I'm constantly aware of like, did I offend that person? Was that wrong? Was the phrasing wrong here? You know, none are you know batting a thousand however the apology and

the way his apology tour to me has not been super sincere hasn't felt super sincere I don't I don't know what you what you think about that you know yeah I don't think the apology is great um you know I I do think that probably there are pockets of players that will say to, to each other in the locker room. Still, I don't know. You know, I have hung out in some places with where I can't like report on what was

being said. Like I have hung out like a driveline and I've hung out, you know, in trainings and training situations where no one has said that. And, and I remember like personally describing things as maybe gay back when I was a kid. There was a time when that was okay, maybe, I don't know. Of course, as soon as I sort of realized what I was saying, I stopped saying it,

and it became really awkward any time I heard it, and And I haven't heard in a really long time now. And that's like the softer version of, you know, what Tom said. So like, I do think this is something that we've decided is not a cool thing to say anymore, even in sort of locker room situations. And even if it was a locker room situation, he's a media guy in front of the camera. You know, like the hot mic you know it's like you know you don't i i've been in the hot mic situation like i i've said some things to dvr before we get on that like you know i i hope he wasn't recording but uh none of them included that

word you know so they were not slurs they were not speech they were they were nothing like that at all like usually about my bowel movements or something. Right. They were just gross bodily functions. Completely inappropriate, but not hateful. But I think it's instructive to see the players react. Because the players are largely a conservative group. And if the players were saying that word a lot maybe you wouldn't say

you wouldn't see Amir Garrett and Anthony's Calfani who are very different people very different people you wouldn't see both those guys come out publicly on Twitter and say you know this was wrong because if they do say it on their own they would just be quiet it's easy for Anthony Discofani to say nothing you know it's easy for Amir Garrett to say nothing. If they're all calling each other that, you know, then they say, well, Tom, you shouldn't have done it in front of the mic.

You know, but instead they're like coming out there and be like, no, man, this is not cool. So, I do think that like we've come a fair amount of way and you know, this, he may represent a little bit of the old guard. You know, he, this, he may represent a little bit of the old guard. You know,

he's definitely sort of baseball nepotism, royalty type stuff. And, you know, maybe this is the first time he's really stepped in doodoo, but he, he stepped in it so hard that, you know,

there are consequences. Yeah. I was just glad, I'm glad we're in an era where there are consequences for that, because for a long time there just wouldn't have been but part of getting better is holding yourself to a high standard and holding other people to a high standard which if you think about the people who maybe work with tom brenneman and the position that they might be in like if you were someone who worked on production of reds games and you've heard something like this before there's no

report or indication that this is a large pattern of behavior, but think about how it gets to this point for a minute and just say, okay, if you're anybody who works with him and you hear him say that, he's been doing this job for 14 years, I believe, with the Reds. He's been in broadcasting for nearly 30 years, and he's a legacy guy in Cincinnati because of his father, right? There's something challenging about speaking up or reporting someone like that for what they're doing. And if you're kind of saying, well, how does it get to this point? That's one of the ways it can get there is just this structure, this power structure that keeps people from speaking up and saying, hey, Tom, that's not cool. You can't

say that. You can't talk like that. It's hateful. It's disrespectful. It's hard to correct somebody in that position. I'm not defending people who didn't. I'm trying to understand basically, how do you reach this point where this happens the way that it did? Right. Well, how do you go five innings? He went five innings after that. How did nobody immediately shut it down? So I do think there are some things that Happens the way that it did. Right. Well, how do you go five innings? He went five innings after that. How did nobody immediately shut it down? So I do think there are some things that, you know, people say that MLB has a diversity problem. And I don't think that problem is in the clubhouse. I think that problem is everywhere else.

I think the players leadership are way more open to. Yeah. To other races, to other genders. Like I as a female, like i have never really felt uncomfortable like the players didn't respect me i have felt that more so from peers or front office people and i think when you look at broadcasts around baseball they are broadcasting they are the voice you hear the most as a fan especially this season right you want to watch a game you got to listen to it and they are really a very small group that is all really similar

right they all have had similar experiences similar backgrounds they all about look the same and i think if baseball is really going to get to that diversity level and really going to get to a point where they're growing the game we have people of different races we have people of different genders we have openly gay broadcasters. You know, we, we get to that point and I'm not saying that this doesn't happen because, you know, Fox sports, Ohio, this is, you know, they didn't make him say this. This is not necessarily on them, but we, we eliminate this. We get to the point where you don't have players complaining about guys, not understanding the way that the Latin players are playing the game.

You know, you're getting a more diverse viewpoint, and I hope that as terrible as something like this is, it kind of brings about that larger question and becomes a teaching moment, which unfortunately it seems like we've had a lot of those lately in baseball. And I do think that maybe this becomes something where he puts in the work and he really decides that he's going to change and not just throw money at some organization and issue some BS apology

written by somebody else. I hope that this is a moment that we can take to understand and to learn from it and say, how do we get better? How do we get better? And when are we satisfied with someone's growth? That's a really tough question to answer because someone somewhere will probably try to hire him again at some point to some job. I don't know how long it's going to take. I don't know how long it should take. Is anybody here advocating that he never get a job again? I don't think so.

here advocating that he never get a job again? I don't think so. But like, you know, there has to be maybe a little bit more growth than these apologies have suggested that has, has gone on in the last couple of days. And that's, that's a huge problem.

It's just the, the lack of sincerity in his apology and the way he's handled it has just been terrible. There's really no other way around that. So on that note, one more question for you guys. What are you looking forward to this weekend? Yes.

What are you excited to watch on a baseball field this weekend? Specifically, Max Scherzer pitches tomorrow. So I'm always excited to watch him pitch. I think the Padres have become a must watch no matter what they're doing or who they're playing. They're just really, really fun to watch.

So those are two things for me, although it's tougher to watch as much as I can because I do cover the Nats. Those are two things that jump to mind. And then, of course, off the field, right, I want to know what's going on with the Mets. Like how long is this going to sideline them? Because it impacts every team in baseball.

It's going to impact every team in baseball if it's a long thing, and we've seen how much that can really damage the schedule and damage the sport. I'm excited to see the Reds Cardinals series. I'd agree that the Padres, you know, that's my default when I'm flipping through on MLB TV. But Reds Cardinals is really interesting to me because the Cardinals have to play a bunch of games,

have to win a bunch of games, have to get back on. They're playing Dylan Carlson, who is seeing fewer fastballs than anybody else in baseball. And I want to see if he can adjust to that. There seems to be kind of a Cardinals problem with breaking balls. Also, the Reds, they were supposed to be good and they're decent, but they're under 500. And so I'm waiting for that hot stretch. I don't know if it had to do with like Moustakas being out and they have lost some players here and there to COVID and just generally, but you know, I'm waiting for like a hot streak. I mean, Bowers is hot himself, but I'm waiting for that team to kind of come together.

So I think that series will be really hugely important for the central as they kind of try to figure out who's going to be behind the Cubs. And so obviously, you know, the Brewers against the Pirates is important that way too, but the Pirates just, I don't know if they're necessarily going to put up a competition. But otherwise, the Phillies Braves, it could be a good series. Both good teams, and if the Phillies can figure something out in the bullpen uh they'll they'll be dangerous so definitely some good series this weekend astros uh against

the padres that's uh that's uh gonna be some high quality baseball and uh you know the padres want to whoop the astros yes you know what we didn't talk about at all but like the yankees il list is completely out of control um i know they have the depth to handle it but like i don't know i i don't know what you guys think about but they overhaul their whole injury rehab routine and it still doesn't really work so i don't know what what do you what do you make of that i'm not really sure right i think it's just guys that have chronic soft tissue problems too right i mean i think with with stanton and judge and donald judge had some fluky stuff with

a broken wrist, but there's all sorts of other things that have popped up on those guys, but they just seem like no matter what you do, they're going to miss time. It's just kind of part of who they are as players, unfortunately. Yeah, and you know, I never made this connection before, but if you've been in the Yankees' clubhouse,

we've talked about this before, where if you've been in that clubhouse, they are monsters. They are huge. like when batances was in there and cc there's like you know is everybody here six six 300 pounds like what is going on and and actually the bigger you are there's a lot of research that suggests the bigger you are uh the more stress you put on your joints the more uh health injuries you'll have. I talk about this as the Rick Smith's problem, where Rick Smith's was like seven foot eight or something and just always had knee injuries. And so I wonder if some part of this is just like, they're always going to have some injuries because they all throw a hundred miles an hour and are six foot six, 300 pounds. Like if you kind of put that team together,

they're always going to have injury. And the best you can do is put a bunch of normal-sized guys behind them, like Mike Tauchman. I said Mike Tauchman is a good thing to have in your pocket. Literally, the Yankees are so big that Mike Tauchman is in Aaron Judge's pocket. And when Aaron Judge needs a breather, he can just take Mike Tauchman out and be like,

here, you play for me now. And Tauchman comes in, and he's 20% better than a league average. I know. The Yankees depth is incredible. And the Astros have been hit hard by the injury bug, really all over the place too. Those two teams have just been feeling it when it comes to losing players to the IL. I'm going to add Cleveland to the watch list for the weekend because Adam Plitko and Tristan McKenzie, the two guys who are basically in the rotation with Clevenger and Plesak away right now, they're both starting against the Tigers. It should be a matchup that Cleveland controls. I mean, the Tigers strike out a lot. It's not a very good lineup, but you get to see Matthew Boyd

try and put his season back together on Saturday against McKenzie. Tarek Skubal makes his second start against Carlos Carrasco on Sunday. So I think that's a pretty interesting series, even if one of those teams, the Tigers, probably isn't a playoff team this year. There's at least reasons to watch, like we talked about earlier. But Tristan McKenzie is a pretty interesting prospect in his own right. So all about the prospects this weekend. And of course, as Britt mentioned, with Scherzer going Saturday, I think the other game of that doubleheader is the debut of Sixto Sanchez. So lots of interesting matchups to watch this weekend. As always, you can reach

us via email, ratesandbarrels at theathletic.com if you'd like to contact us that way. If you don't have a subscription yet to The Athletic, you can get 40% off at theathletic.com slash ratesandbarrels. Get all of Britt's Nats coverage, get Eno's articles, all of our fantasy stuff, everything you could possibly want, all with one

subscription. On Twitter, she is at BritGiroli. There's an underscore in there after Brit, so don't forget that. At EnoSaras, at Derek Van Ryper. That is going to wrap things up for this episode of Rates and Barrels. Have a great weekend. We are back with you on Tuesday. Thanks for listening. Thank you.