Rates & Barrels - Free agency begins, new ownership for the Mets, and Hinch, Cora and La Russa are managers again

Episode Date: November 6, 2020

Eno, DVR and Britt discuss the start of free agency, the big changes for the Mets with Steve Cohen's purchase of the team, the return of A.J. Hinch, Alex Cora and Tony La Russa to the dugout, and more.  Rundown 2:15 The 2021 Free Agent Class 5:50 Non-Tenders Are Still To Come 12:40 Questions About Team Finances After 2020 18:53 Steve Cohen Purchases the Mets 26:32 Francisco Lindor Trade Rumors 34:54 Hinch to Detroit, Cora to Boston and La Russa to Chicago 45:15 The Gold Glove Awards Should Be Fun!   Follow Eno on Twitter: @enosarris Follow Britt on Twitter: @Britt_Ghiroli Follow DVR on Twitter: @DerekVanRiper e-mail: [e-mail] Subscribe to The Athletic for just $1/week at theathletic.com/ratesandbarrels Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So let's be clear. When it comes to shipping internationally, can I provide trade documents electronically? Mm-hmm. The answer is FedEx. Okay. But what about estimating duties and taxes on my shipments? How do I find all the... Also FedEx. Impressive. Is there a regulatory specialist I can ask about? FedEx. Oh. But let's say that... FedEx.

What? FedEx. Thanks. No more questions. Always your answer for international shipping. FedEx. What? FedEx. Thanks. No more questions. Always your answer for international shipping. FedEx, where now meets next. Welcome to Rates and Barrels. It is Friday, November 6th. Derek Van Ryper, Eno Saris, Britt Giroli, we got the whole band back together. We told you it wasn't going to be long.

And as we mentioned on our episode on Wednesday, our Friday episodes throughout this offseason, with some holiday exceptions sprinkled in, are going to focus on what's happening in real baseball. And on this week's episode, we're going to talk about free agency being officially underway, even though there's not really any movement there. So we'll talk about what we expect in the weeks and probably more accurately months ahead. We'll talk about the overall landscape around the league as big changes are happening with several teams. AJ Hinch and Alex Cora, they're employed again, so we'll discuss that as well. It's great to see both of you again. It's only been

nine days, technically, since we last podcasted, but it took us about 20 minutes once we connected to actually start recording the show, so it's good. It's like a nice reunion that we've had today. The band's back together. Exactly. I was going to say I missed you guys, but now we already had a 20-minute catch-up

before we even hit record on this. So I'm over you already. Let's get on with it. So I think the thing that I want to start with today is the qualifying offer free agents, some of the top free agents on the board this offseason. The players who received the qualifying offer, Trevor Bauer, DJ LeMayhew, JT Realmuto, George Springer, Marcus Stroman, and Kevin Gossman. It's an $18.9 million contract for 2021. Of that group, I think you could maybe see Gossman taking it, but I think as Andrew Baggerly has reported, he's in talks with the Giants about a long-term deal of some kind. Maybe that's a three- or four-year deal.

Stroman, maybe, just because he ended up sitting out the 2020 season. But the other players, there are four guys. I think Bauer already said he's not accepting it. There's no way LeMahieu, Ray Amuto, or Springer are playing on a one-year deal right now. So I want to talk about these guys more just in terms of expectations. And I know Eno had a piece looking at what different projections had for free agent contracts, and they don't look wildly different than off-seasons past, right? I mean, we have a couple guys who are looking at nine-figure deals based on that calculation, Real Muto and Springer leading the way. Real Muto, to me, is a better version of Yasmany Grandal. Grandal got a pretty nice contract last offseason when he got that four-year deal with the White Sox. I'll start with you. As you put that's why Manny Machado got that much money.

That's why Bryce Harper got that much money is that we're so young. I mean, in effect, real Muto and Springer are of that quality and, you know, in a way, but they're already 30 and 31, you know,

so there's just not going to get the same amount of years. They're not going to get that huge deal. So I don't think that like, if we don't have like a 203 we actually kind of did have a 300 million dollar guy because mookie betts signed the extension and that counts as part of this process so that's our 300 million dollar guy that we have usually one or two of every year and then we're going to have 200 million dollar guys probably in real milto and springer. And I think the real difference is actually down once you get past those guys. You know, I looked at Kylie McDaniel's list at ESPN

and he had 31 year deals in his top 50 free agents. I think that's got to be different. I mean, you know, I think that other places like MLB Trade Rooms and Van Graaffs had a more traditional approach where they had, you know, 15 to 20 one-year deals. And that's, I think, a little bit more normal thinking. But I think Kylie McDaniel might be right. I think we may have 30 one-year deals in the top 50. And so I think that's relevant, especially for a guy like Kevin Gossman who got the offer. You know, Marcus Stroman is projected in this for getting four years and 61 million. That's an aggregate projection from three different spots. So if you have four years and 60 million, I don't know that you're begging to take the, you're going to jump to take the 18.5 or whatever,

the qualifying offer. But Kevin Gossman is projected to get two years and $34 million. I think he's going to take it. I think he's going to take that. And I think that a lot of people below him are going to get one-year deals. Colton Wong, I think, will get a one-year deal. Brad Hand might get a one-year deal. Tommy LaStella, Jackie Bradley Jr., Jock Peterson.

A lot of those guys that might have had two or three-year deals in the past, I think are going to take one-year deals and hope that the market is better next year. Yeah, I think you hit it on the head. The top guys are going to get paid no matter what, right? This is sports mirror society. The guys at the top never suffer, right? It's the middle class that takes the brunt of things, right? It's the six-year free agent who is like, well, damn, this is a ridiculous market, right? It's the second, third tier level of guys who are going to

probably want to hurry up and take the best offer they can because what we haven't seen yet, guys, is the market flooded with more non-tenders. This free agent market is going to get even bigger. And we've already seen it. A lot of these options that clubs are declining, like Brad Hand, was a surprising one. You're going to see Charlie Morton declined by Tampa Bay. All these options that look like they would have been OK in a regular year. Clubs are now like, nope, we can probably resign you cheaper. Let's see what the rest of the market does.

We are headed toward a really unprecedented winter. It's going to be slow, which sucks for us, right? Because we're going to be kind of, it's not really a hot stove. It's more like a stove that you haven't turned on yet and you're hoping it still works. A stove that just doesn't exist. I think it's probably like a more accurate term because it's going to be a, there's no winter meetings. They're virtual.

That's where a lot of stuff gets literally thrown up against the wall to see what sticks. So it's going to be a weird, a weird rumor season, but I agree with you. You know, there's gonna be a lot of one year deals. There's going to be a lot of guys who say,

okay, can I bet on myself? Depending on where you are in your career, am I poised to have a big year and recash in or at the point where like, okay, one year plus an option sounds good. You might see some older relievers try to do something like that to get some kind of security. How about the guys who worked and worked and worked to get to free agency, their first time free agents, and this is the market they go into. I mean, total luck of the draw, but can you just imagine like a Chris Davis on this kind of market, right? Some of these guys who cashed in on these horrific contracts that are just kind of sitting back like, well, baseball was good business a few years ago. Baseball and being a free agent right now, still better business than being a sports writer, but not really great business. Drew Smiley limping through all those injuries, finally a free agent after a decent year.

But he's going to get like one in six. Cesar Hernandez, decent player, probably going to get a one-year deal. Jerickson Profar, took him a while to get there he's 28 you know he does everything okay he's just not gonna he's not gonna make anyone jump to to give him three years like he might have in the past and i i just wanted to kind of peruse some of the arbitration projections at mlb trade rumors and just like name some guys that might be released one name that jumped off was like Hansel Robles, $4 million for the Angels.

In a normal year, I think they'd be like, yeah, sure, fine. He's a pretty good reliever. This year they might be like, you know what? I might be able to get another reliever. I might be able to get like Robbie Ray and turn him into a reliever,

you know, for that money. So, and he might start as a starter for me first, you know? So it's like uh guys like that uh the a's have a bunch of guys we're like tony kemp for a million uh you know sean mania even for 6.4 like you know i could see them making a decision there that people would be surprised by uh i don't think travis shaw is going to get five million dollars from the blue jays uh that's what arbitration projection is so travis

shaw is a guy like i think normally he'd be like okay five million dollars you know it's the last year you know he's gonna be a bridge to some younger player this time you'd be like no let's just throw the younger player in let's see we got to have somebody else back there so here's the thing with those projections though are you going which number you're going off of because mlb trade rumors has three numbers and i've talked to a lot of agents that are like listen they have no clue they're just throwing all this up there because what no one's talking about and maybe anino are because eventually we're going to write about this is how do you evaluate 2020 arbitration is based off of what you did and some agents i know are going to look at the last 162 for a player and say like here here, here's a mock full season, the 60 games of this and the past 100.

Some people are going to try to take that 60 game season and, and times it, you know, and, and magnify it to make it. This was what, what it would have been if this player had stayed on track. Trade rumors has three different numbers.

They're using three different formulas that are wildly different figures in a lot of cases. So what, I mean, what do you guys think about how different... I mean, arbitration, these guys have no idea what they're going to get, no idea what they're going to make. And I wonder if smart clubs are going to say,

you know what, we should lock some of these guys up to some team-friendly deals while the market is low. Yeah, I mean, I wonder if there are some players who are still a couple of years away from free agency who might take a multi-year deal this winter because of that uncertainty. It's a fair question to ask. You've talked to some agents, so I'm curious. Do you get a sense that they are going to try and ride this out?

Or do you think when a reasonable early offer is presented, teams are going to jump at it, or players are going to jump at it, rather? Charlie Morton is one of those guys who I think, when he was a free agent last time around with the Rays two years ago, he jumped on that deal quickly. It was like two for 30 and his option was among those that was declined. It sounds like there might be some interest in him already. He's an older guy though. I think for an older free agent, especially if you're going to get what you want from the team you want early on, you have the luxury of being able to take it.

You want to just kind of call your own shots at this stage. You've already made most of the money you're going to make. It's really more about choosing where you want to go for the last contract of your career, potentially. That's why Charlie Morton is going to retire or pitch for the Rays. I mean, that's how I see it. Yeah, and all these other teams are speculating about him. And didn't he say you know

like hey i want to stay by my family he basically said in zooms i'm gonna retire or pitch for the next year so it's like i'm gonna take him at his word for it you know um but but i i think it's an interesting thing to ask like what what they should if i was advising an agent i don't i don't haven't talked to as many about it as i should have at this point probably but if i was advising an agent i think i would say if i was a guy who had a top 10 uh free agent then i'm gonna play the waiting game because that's what the front office is gonna do they're gonna wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait but if i've got a guy who's only gonna get a one year deal i think i want to take the one deal, no matter what almost what the number is, and make sure that my player has a spot. Right.

You know, that my player is not going to get a minor league invite. That my player is going to play in baseball next year and have a chance to establish his value and get back on the market. So, yeah, like Robbie Grossman, man, I'm not waiting around. If somebody offers me $5 million, like, I'm not waiting around. If somebody offers me $5 million, I'm going to take it. I'm going to play for whatever team offers me one year and $5 million because I don't think – there could be a waiting game where Robbie Grossman doesn't have a job. Right.

Yeah, and so I think you're right. I think if you're an agent, you take it as, is Trevor Bauer going to jump at the first good number he gets? Is Rachel Luba his agent? Absolutely not. They're going to wait. They're going to play the Harper Machado game. Both those guys signed in what?

February? When spring training was already going on? Teams have money. There's also a rumor going around in agent circles that all these teams despite what they have said publicly made money. That the financials of it all has been widely exaggerated. Maybe they didn't

make as much as they make in normal years, but I've heard from multiple people that every single club has avoided being in the red. So all these cuts you're seeing around baseball that we'll get into later in the show, this is all because instead of making $5 billion, you're making $2 billion. And so just because this was a down year doesn't mean these clubs are just bleeding money i think that's something that the owners like to act like that's happening right even in good years they never act like there's a lot of money there is money for the top players and manfred's saying that like there's three billion billion dollars of losses like that could be three billion dollars of like you know money they didn't make. Yes.

Right? Yes. It could have been $10 billion. Yeah, exactly. My impression of the finances of a team is that the players are paid for by the TV money. That most payroll is paid for before a game is played. It's really obvious. If you look at the A's, it's really obvious if you look at the at the red at the a's it's really

obvious because you know how much their tv money is the national tv money is and you know how much their revenue sharing was and uh for a long time their national tv money was 50 million dollars a year and the revenue sharing was 30 million and their payroll was 80 million wow crazy how that adds up yeah it was like real easy math i'm like whoa that's pretty obvious and you also i mean in oakland it might be an extreme case because they're uh you know they'll have tuesdays where there's like 500 people at the park but i bet you that most organizations work like that where they're like we want the payers played for like we want the the attendance to be kind of the cherry on top yes the 15 taco bowl yeah does not pay for players yeah exactly and you don't want it to be like that's be a risky way to run a business right

to be like oh we have to sell 300,000 taco bowls this year in order to pay for right right right no you want to be like no bryce harper is paid for it's like the executive salaries and the bonuses and that that stuff that comes out of how many taco bowls we sell right totally totally and how good the team is the merchandising that's all kind of like the cherry on top like you were saying the extras that teams like the nationals get screwed on that and also why this mass and dispute speaking of regional tv money the orioles and nationals have been locked in this battle for 10 years and people wonder like if the nationals actually got the money owed to them would they be a bigger player

on they're already a pretty big spender all things considered on on free agent um but you know would that just decimate the orioles i don't know. We'll never know because that will keep spinning and the appeals on appeals on appeals. Like what is happening right now? So the Orioles lost in court like about a week ago again, but they are now going to appeal that lost case again to a different court. So I do wonder by the time this is...

And the case was about paying what they what the nationals were owed because they were they were supposed to be a payment yes because they were backlogged they were supposed to owe them a lot more of the revenue share from previous years so this is about back payments so the nationals do borrow money from mlb to make up for that a little bit but again it's not it's it's a weird scenario. So I don't know how much the windfall will help them at this point. I don't know if anyone's going to make any money by the time you pay all these lawyers for 10 years

of work. Billable hours always win. Billable hours always win. I feel like we're in the wrong business. You just keep appealing and appealing and keep getting paid. How did I miss this potential work path? How did I miss this? Yeah, I keep wondering about that too. It's hard because I do think there are some unique factors in some markets. The Brewers made some cuts to creative people. Caitlin Moyer was

their director of new media. And I think at least one member of her team also was let go. There are other cuts that were made by the Brewers too. And I think about them as a team that it is smaller market. Mark Atanasio has plenty of money. That's not the debate. But attendance in Milwaukee kind of exceeds expectations for other similar sized markets, right? So if you don't draw those 3 million fans over the course of the year,

I do think that has more of an impact in a place like Milwaukee. They might actually depend on some of that. Right, there might be- St. Louis. There might be more correction happening there than in other places because of how that scenario

that Eno just outlined works. I also don't think the brewers have a massive TV deal. I'm trying to remember the details off the top of my head, but it's lower third, if not bottom five even in terms of actual value. So it's not

like they are crushing it on the TV side and they actually did take relatively speaking a big hit compared to some other teams that spend the way they spend. Right. No, I think you're right because I think the Cardinals GM came out and said that. Same thing. I mean, in St. Louis, Cardinals games are right because I think the Cardinals GM came out and said that. Same thing.

I mean, in St. Louis, Cardinals games are a huge tradition. It's like a religion. So I do think that it does matter to some extent what team, what market. The Yankees rely on their fans, yes, but they also have the Yes Network, which is a huge cash cow. So much. It doesn't even matter how good they are. There are Yankee hats in Tokyo. Every corner of the world, you can could find a yankee yeah that's yeah maybe some of them are

knockoffs but i i think they like definitely do well they probably sell more jerseys and hats than any other team so there's in some ways they're a juggernaut and we'll continue to keep rolling i think but you know the dodgers the dodgers won and there was literally a tweet that was the same day that was like, find our merchandise and the store will be open. I'm like, God. Capitalism, man. It's unrelenting. It really is.

I think the interesting thing, too, that has happened recently is the Mets have a new owner. And the Mets have been the butt of more jokes on this podcast than any franchise in the league, thanks to the Wilpons. This is a big deal for the Mets and for Mets fans. You're no longer a laughingstock, at least in terms of process and ownership. You might still be a laughingstock on the field. You might be the team that spends a lot of money and doesn't win, but you're not going to be the huge market team that doesn't spend with total clown owners at this point. So the Mets are going to be probably at the front of the line for any of these free agents we're talking about. The multi-year deals, they have it. They have the money. They have the path to go out and improve the roster as much as any team in the league right now. But I keep wondering,

who's the competition for them, for top-end talent? Which other teams are actually going to be in a position to add top free agents? Probably a lot of teams that either had big contracts coming off the books or teams that like the Mets were previously underspending anyway. Yeah, I saw this tweet by Andy Martino. I don't know how it's sourced, you know, where it comes from, but teams perceived by rivals, it says, as likely to spend significantly this offseason. Blue Jays, White Sox, Giants, and Mets.

There's a little bit of a different situation in each case. I think the Giants, basically, the payroll has been coming down, and so they have a little bit of place to spend there. Basically, some of the Bumgarner money and some of that money that they didn't really spend in the past. And the team has been getting better at hitting. So it seems like it's a good time to kind of maybe to add to that. The Blue Jays and the White Sox, I think,

are just young teams that would have been spending anyway. Young teams on the cusp that could spend in an interesting way. I think the Blue Jays, if they could spend on an arm or two, could make a big – that could be pretty funny. Marcus Stroman, hey. That would be a pretty good fit for that team, huh? And, you know, I think the White Sox could use some pitching too.

So, you know, I think that's it. And then the Mets, I think the Mets are really interesting because from what I've heard internally, you know, Cohen, I think, is going to be focusing on spending internally, like spending on infrastructure, spending on player development, spending on coaches, spending on front office analytics, because they're a little bit behind in that regard. Right. um right and so that he could be have a quiet year and just be like hey we're just i'm just trying to figure out what this team is like i'm just listening to everybody i'm just hiring some important coaches and this and that and like it may not be a big splash but however he is like an art collector loria type on some level so i could see him doing the back end stuff and

signing some big free agents trying to trade for lor, maybe trying to trade for Arnauto. Like I could see him doing both. I mean, you remember when AJ Preller joined up, that wasn't an ownership change, but you remember he, you know, basically acquired every player, you know, while also working on the backend scouting Latin American pipeline that ended up being the better, the better move in the long term. Yeah, it didn't really go that well. I was waiting for you to point that out. The first part

didn't work out. I agree. I don't think a lot of times these big splash things work out that well because there might be underlying problems. Yeah, I think you're right. I think what was kind of cool to see from Cohen was the first thing he did was reverse the pay for all Mets employees to pre-pandemic. That's the kind of thing that, okay, that doesn't win you a World Series, but that's the kind of thing, as we all know, people that are around teams, the culture is important. That's how you keep people. That's how you get people that want to go the extra mile for the Mets. And I think you're right, you know, I mean, how well did the stupid money that

the Phillies threw around a few winters ago? How well did that work out? Well, it worked out terrible. Matt Klintak is no longer there. They're a team in crisis mode with interim GM Ned Rice. You know, they've got a ton of holes, really bad culture from what I've heard, a lot of things that are going wrong there. So it's not really the whole, let's thump our chest and throw some money at players type of thing that really works most of the time but i would like to see the mets still make a few feel good moves i remember last winter there was some optimism regarding oh the mets might have too much starting pitching and they they've kind of done the good team on paper thing

before but what the wilpons never seemed to do right was also get the rest of it correct right like let's let's hire random people for random positions there's definitely going to be some addition by subtraction which is Jeff Wilpon was the only owner in baseball that was in the friggin clubhouse and I have to tell you man from the player's perspective I don't think there could be anything worse than the owner in the clubhouse, especially when the owner is telling you things like, you're not really hurt. That's exactly what you want to hear from someone

who's never put on the uniform. Yeah. That's exactly what you want to hear. And owns the whole team. A lot of implicit pressure in him just being the owner. Yeah, it's like the CEO of a business hanging out in him just being the owner. You know, like, okay. Yeah, it's like the CEO of a business hanging out in the break room.

Exactly. You know what I mean? Like, hey, are you on lunch? Check out lunch. Like, hey, did you... Don't you think you guys should be back at work? Yeah. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Can you imagine that? It's so bad. And I think Cohen is... You know, we don't know how good of an owner he is, but I think he's not going to be the worst owner in baseball, which was Jeff Lopan. So there's definitely going to be some addition by subtraction there.

There are some fundamentals. In fact, I think the Mets lineup is good. I think the question is back-end starting pitching, pitching depth, and some defensive questions. And that's actually a good place to be. I think it's maybe a little bit better place even than the Phillies were because you're not relying on a lot of growth from the young players. They've grown. J.D. Davis is who he is. Michael Conforto is who he is. Brandon Nimmo is. These are all good players. So the question is, what are you going to do at shortstop?

Are you just going to be okay with defense and spend the money on starting pitching? Or do you let the market come to you and just sign guys that make sense for your team and try to improve a little bit every year? That's my impression that I think will happen. So you saw improve a little bit every year. That's my impression that I think will happen. So you saw it a little bit already. They signed Malik Smith on a minor league deal. Not a big deal, but he could actually help that team a lot. I mean, they've been looking for someone to be a good center fielder and to be like a good forward. They traded for them in the past. Instead of trading for Jake Marisik, sign Malik Smith to a minor league deal.

It's perfect. It's a lot better than they've done in the past. You know what I mean? Yeah. I do want to say it's nice for the Mets. They're in a long suffering fan base. Just let them be not a big, not as big of a joke,

right? Just let them have a little hope. Can we retire? LOL Mets. No, I don't know if we can ever actually retire. LOL Mets, but we're just laughing

for different reasons now. I do feel I'm happy for Mets fans because I've said this before. They deserve better. They are passionate fans who want their team to be competitive and not the laughingstock of the league for all the reasons they have been. This is a big

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I think there's a few things they should do. The Lindor trade rumors make sense to me. And I think they're built to sort of pull it off, right? If we use the Mookie Betts trade that we saw between the Dodgers and the Red Sox as kind of a rough value equivalent. I know Lindor versus Betts, we'd probably all take Mookie Betts, but it's not that far off. You're talking about a potential superstar with one year left. So let's maybe consider something like, I don't know, Dominic Smith plus Ahmed Rosario, right? You could actually pull that off. Andres Jimenez plus somebody. You can build the package pretty easily, and it sort of checks out as one that might work

for both sides. And for the Mets, you're not blowing up your core at all to do it. And like the Dodgers did with Betts, you could very easily extend Lindor and make him one of the faces of your franchise. I think that would be very logical at this point, just given where they're going. The only name that makes me nervous is the Ronnie Mauricio ad. It's probably what it takes, because if it's Dom Smith and Andres Jimenez, it's like, okay, it might be kind of like a role-playery shortstop and a decent hitter, but will he hit in Cleveland? It seems like a big question for all the guys they get. And does he have a lot of defensive value?

I don't know. So I think you do have to throw Ron Mauricio in there. There's just a little bit, like a non-zero chance that you're giving away a future star. But you're getting a star, so it's worth one year. That's where I'm like, I don't know what that third piece is is it ron maricio or is it you know a different name but um it's a it's uh it definitely makes sense i think i could see lindor in new york for sure you know what's kind of cool about cleveland and like i get it if you're an indian span you're

kind of sick they can't keep lindor but you probably knew this for a while. You had to make peace with it. So they told their, you know, cuts going on all over baseball. They told their employees, hey, listen, we're not firing anybody in the middle of a pandemic. We're not firing anybody next year. What we are going to do is we're not going to bring jobs back. We're going to give the people that are going to be laid off 12 months to to look around for jobs to know that we're not bringing you back but you have 12 months i thought in a a world that's very inhumane right the nationals two days before contracts expired let go people and that

was it you're done you're not getting paid anymore um i thought you, looking at what has happened around the game for Cleveland to do that, for the Dolan family to do that. Really, I just thought that just deserved to be recognized because how many people, how many jobs, no matter what you do, would be like, you know what? We're not going to bring you guys back, but we're going to give you a whole year to look for stuff. I mean, it's like the opposite of what the Angels did, which is we're going to put you on furlough and not pit you through the pandemic and also say that you can't go look for a job because you're still technically linked to us. Yes. Yes. So I just thought that was really cool. I'm going to harbor some ill will toward the Angels for that. Well, I agree.

I think you've seen a wide variety of what teams have done and haven't done. Can you imagine? I think the Nationals were the last team with contracts that expired on Halloween that two days beforehand were like, hey, guess what? We're getting rid of you. How contracts work is you're done. There's no severance. There's

nothing. You're done. There's just been some really, obviously, terrible things going on no matter what industry you're in. And I just thought hearing that from multiple people out of Cleveland this week was just really, really a cool gesture, if you will. Right. And they'll get a lot less positive attention for that than they'll get negative attention for trading away Lindor, which is probably not fair. How you treat hundreds of people you're employing matters a lot. Trading away a superstar shortstop for other young players, I mean, that's just more of a tactical business decision that's just on-field related that doesn't impact

the lives of countless people in your organization. Could they do both? My argument would be yes, but if they're only going to do one of those things, taking care of a lot of employees is the better path to choose. Yes. Someone's going to employ Francisco Lindor. He's going to get paid. But some of these guys getting laid off now in an industry where jobs are going away and not coming back, that to me, it was a very humane thing to do. Who knows what baseball looks like in another year, but at least you have a chance, a fighting chance to set yourself up for that next step.

RJ Anderson on CBS had a really good piece about the brain drain that's coming. And the brain drain that's coming in baseball because there was always a pressure on smart people in baseball to take smaller deals, basically. Take less money to work in baseball. There's always that pressure. It's amazing to me as a writer that I'm asked to take less money to work for a team than to write that's that's how that's how ridiculous it is that's how bad it is to work in baseball sometimes is that you're

taking a pay cut from writing um and so uh uh the the the just crush us Ina yeah what RJ was writing about in his piece was just that like is now on AGMs and analytics guys and all sorts of people. Not so much maybe player development and coaching side because they have very specific knowledge. But somebody who has translatable knowledge to another field is going to leave. Especially if it's someone who was doing okay, saved, doing okay, saved up some money and decided he

would like work in an analytics department with his PhD. You know, there are people like that who are just like making $30,000 working for the Phillies as a PhD. They're going to be like, you know what? I think I'll take the, you know, $500,000 job or the $200,000 job and bank my time in baseball and be like, that was fun, but I'm out of here, guys. Go work at Google. Yeah, exactly. So there's definitely some of that's going to happen as a part of this. And maybe that's going to happen in Cleveland, too. But one of the things that makes Cleveland great is the ability to kind of keep pumping out great pitchers, to keep having good teams, even as they trade players away constantly.

And I know it's frustrating as a fan. You think maybe they could get over the top if they really invested in the team. But for whatever reason, that's not going to happen. I don't know that we have the power outside of this to make them spend money. No, I think in a lot of ways, the way that they are trying to function is not totally unlike what we saw from the Giants at their World Series peak. But the difference is they're not spending on the free agents to fortify that core. Like that's the core. They're trying to run with the pitching core. They also seem to be really good at developing middle infielders.

Go back and look at prospect rankings throughout the last 10 years. There's so many guys that were buried in that org who ended up going somewhere else, even if they're just bench players, and found opportunities and are proving to be at least capable big leaguers. They develop some very important ingredients to a winning team internally at a high rate. That gives them a chance to continue doing what they do and possibly hang around, even a division where the White Sox are, I think, in that spending mode with a good young core. The Tigers, they have young pitching. Maybe they're going to start spending a little bit more now as well. They got a good pitching coach today, Chris Fetters.

That's a good one. That's a big addition, right? If you've got good young pitching, you should invest in your pitching coach, and they absolutely did that. Yeah, I heard behind the scenes that Casey Mize had not really received much instruction. That's brutal when you have top-end talent, and your coaches can't help them refine it, or they're afraid to, or they don't know how, that's awful.

That's the worst-case scenario. It defeats the purpose of having Casey Mize if you can't actually turn him into the Casey Mize he's supposed to be. But the Tigers, I mean, they were among the teams that hired a new manager. Two disgraced managers back in the game. A.J. Hinch goes to the Tigers. Alex Cora goes right back to the Red Sox. That announcement came a couple hours

before we started recording on Friday morning. And those two things have kind of pushed Tony La Russa all the way to the back burner. Tony La Russa's return to the dugout was a huge surprise that I think was only, what, seven, eight days ago? And that feels like it happened a month ago already. So new managers, but old managers. And Britt, you wrote the story with Andy and Mark about how the league feels

about Hinch and Cora. We talked a little bit about it on our last playoff episode, but this isn't really that surprising, is it? I mean, Cora going back to Boston, it felt like that was inevitable for the better part of the last week, and it was only a matter of time before it became official. It really did, and I really enjoyed all the back-and-forth reports about how,

oh, maybe it's Sam Fold. He's a finalist. They're really considering him. I'm sure he was considered in well regard as long as the other candidates. Alex Cora was always going to manage this team. As long as his suspension was up and the league was going to issue no further punishments,

which is what we were told before we wrote that story, both of those guys were always going to get jobs. Because they have proven track records, they have enough people in their corner, and they're likable personalities. That, to me, is what can't be understated here.

They both expertly played this whole situation. Cora called guys and apologized. Hinge did that very somber, reflective MLB Network interview. They both spent the past year on this apology tour and knew enough to not really say anything when to stay out of the spotlight. And there's a lot of people that have a problem with this, but they're probably going to be silent now.

There's a large faction of the game that has a problem with this, that feels like lessons were not learned, punishment was not doled out. But I always felt like as long as the league said it was okay, clubs were just going to go like, all right, it's okay. We let PED guys back in. We let guys who are suspended for things back in. We have domestic violence guys still pitching in this league.

So I think before you throw a stone, you got to look around at the glass house that is MLB. Yeah, I think it's a really uncomfortable position that basically the position on baseball, position from baseball on cheating is a little bit is okay. That is the message they're sending. Yes.

I mean, I have more on this on Monday, but in a piece on Monday, but I just, you know, they're trying to like have these shades of gray and like okay the the astros were worse than the red socks they banged on the the trash can like they they they transmitted the signs whereas the red socks just kind of broke the signs using the technology they didn't bang on the trash can so that's why the astros got really reamed and the Red Sox got just minor minor slap on the wrist um so maybe it's a it's okay but Ascor was involved in both of those yeah and I guess like what is was it really a difference or was it because the athletic had actual people on record talking about the Astros and they really didn't have that same level of information about yeah

because everybody knew about the trash cans like I knew i don't know i don't know if everybody did but i knew about the trash cans i just never thought i could report it it never even occurred to me that to write as a story i never i didn't know about it well i you know the way that i heard about it was from other players it just it just really read like one of those things where they're like oh you know the astros they're doing this you know and you're like okay maybe they are maybe aren't. It never even occurred to me that maybe like listen to the audio or like, you know, like try to break it. But you know, Jeff Paston actually had a note about a trash can in one of the stories. So I also thought, okay, this has been reported, like people, you know, it's out there. But once the players went on record, that changed things. But that's

kind of what you have to do with baseball is kind of put them in a corner. Otherwise, they won't do anything about it. And I think that's what happened with the steroids. At some point, they were putting so much in a corner. People were seeing steroids in lockers and stuff. When it became that obvious, baseball felt like they finally had to do something about it. It also took some reporting in that

case too right it was like the tj was it the mcquinn what's his name again tj quinn from yeah yeah yeah like they they they broke the whole balco thing that was like before they even had a testing right like it was like they broke balco and then baseball was like okay i guess we gotta do some testing yes so yes so it yes. So it's true, though. I had an agent say this exact thing to me. You know that you're saying they turn a blind eye to it. They know what's going on. Then it leaks.

The public is outraged. And then MLB does something about it. That is the pecking order. Yeah. But yeah, it's a little bit weird for me because I also wonder if Carlos Beltran is going to get the benefit of this, you know, year off and you're fine and come back or if he's going to somehow be the one that's not allowed back. And why? Why is that?

It's not it's not easy to just be like it's on race lines or anything because Cora, you know, Cora's coming back. But I hope that Carlos Beltran isn't just, you know, blackballed from baseball. Just, you know, when we have A.J. Hinch as the manager of an exciting, possibly exciting young team. And like, so, you know, I think that there's some icky, icky feelings on some of this coming back. And then but then there's like, you know, at some point, uh, it's, there's a question, I think it's a larger question for society as well, which is just like, what do we do with people once they've, um, paid their dues?

Like once they've had the punishment, like how, what is an appropriate amount of time to, you know, like be punished? What's an appropriate amount of punishment? What do we welcome them back? Do we give them back do we give them great jobs when they come back or maybe should have aj hinch got taken like a triple a job right that's exactly what people mentioned in that article we did with craig and mccullough is okay no one's going to deny them a chance to feed their families but do they need to slot back into

these plum jobs yeah and as for beltron i don't you kind of get the undercurrent of a feeling that he doesn't want to manage outside of new york so he didn't it's not like he interviewed for other things he also might realize you know what i have a really good career maybe i should just duck out now because people are starting to wonder will this tarnish his potential hall of fame bid yeah yeah maybe i should just take the hall of Fame circuit, the Hall of Fame signing circuit. It's pretty, pretty easy money. There's also a huge difference in career earnings differences between guys like Hinch and Cora versus Beltran. It's not even close. Right, right. Well, I just hope that the doors aren't closed to him if he wants them to be open,

because obviously, I would say that Hinch and Kort are more culpable. As a player, I think you have a different sort of perspective on this sort of thing. You're just like trying, you know, doing everything to win. I think it's actually on the manager to say, no, no, no, we can't do this. For the White Sox opening, like Britt said, Beltran maybe isn't interested in jobs outside of New York. That's entirely possible.

He would have been a better fit than Tony La Russa. That's exactly what I was going to say. How much more sense would that have made if the White Sox had gone with Carlos Beltran instead of Tony La Russa? And again, I will say, it may not have even been an option aside from the fact that the White Sox

didn't even interview A.J. Hinge. It doesn't even sound like they really interviewed anybody. If they did, they were just locked in on La Russa from ownership down. That seems like a failed process is it not like that seems like a massive rules about the process too you're supposed to have a certain amount of candidates you're supposed to you're supposed to make it it's like if the athletic wants to hire a writer like there

are rules about the process they have to like they have to put it out there even if they have a guy that they want on some level like they have they put it on the board and like you know allow people to interview for it and like i don't know this is uh this is kind of old school just like you know jerry reinstorm being like oh got my guy yeah let's hire my friend and then like rick hahn very clearly wanted aj hinge so it you know you i don't know you create more of a stratification in your front office, for sure. Right. I do know that the commissioner's office has to approve whatever moves you do, and they are getting increasing power and responsibility

and input on some of those hires. But this just seemed like, keep in mind that Reisendorf isn't like a normal owner either. He's like one of the most powerful owners in baseball like he's had hands in almost scuttled the mets deal i mean he was trying to yes yeah so i just i wonder if you know if it was another club if manfred and mlb would have felt like they had a little more control over different ownership groups reisendorf like was on the team that brought that picked the the learners like learners to take over the Nationals

when they had a team to DC. He's kind of in that upper echelon of sports owners. And I wonder if there was nobody and nobody was going to be able to stop him. Yeah. It's also kind of surprising to me too. I heard at some point that La Russa is supposed to groom Joe McEwing to be the next manager. And it's like, what groom Joe McEwing to be the next manager. And it's like, what does Joe McEwing not know how to do about being a manager after spending

several years on coaching staffs and already knowing that team inside and out? That seemed like a complete farce explanation. I mean, I haven't really seen a good one. The best piece I've read so far is James Feagin's piece about La Russa and the fit there. It's very complicated, but it's a really good piece. I would recommend

people check that out if they haven't done so already. Yeah. The best part of all of this is that Rick Renteria was named a finalist for manager of the year. Best award possible. The White Sox Twitter feed had to congratulate him. That's very, very awkward. Unbelievable.

And the other thing, we kind of touched on this on Wednesday at the beginning of the show, the Gold Glove winners being announced on election night. Why? Why would you do that? It should be a fun night of watching some of the best plays of the year, right? Baseball fans should unite with a beer or a coffee or a glass of wine or a sparkling water or whatever and sit around and watch basically just two hours of awesomeness.

That's what it really should be. Two hours of awesomeness. That's what it really should be. And it was, you know, a tree that fell in the forest with no one really around to hear it outside of the tweets that were interspersed with all the political tweets on our timelines that night. Where I just feel like it completely dismisses one of the cool parts of the game that is very regularly overlooked in just like mainstream baseball conversation, right? Defense and gold gloves doesn't get nearly as much attention as it probably deserves yep i didn't watch it did you guys nope i didn't watch it i had to i had to do a quick reaction on it but um i will admit to switching channels a lot um and I think it's also sad

because, and I think it was, from what I've heard, it's a Rawlings call. Don't blame it on Sabre. Sabre was involved in the SDI, which is the defensive index that was that determined the finalists and the winners. But it was

Rawlings' call to do it on that day, so that was all on Rawlings. I don't even think it was baseball's call because it's was Rawlings' call to do it on that day, so that was all on Rawlings. I don't even think it was baseball's call because it's a Rawlings award. I think it's also sad because the defense is the hardest thing to get right in metrics, so I think you could have a lot of interesting conversations about which defensive metrics are better and which defensive metrics like one guy better.

And, you know, which defensive metrics don't agree with the eye test and stuff like that. I mean, like the coaches, for example, I think basically gave Alex Gordon a gold glove at 36 when the defensive metrics have said he's, you know, scratch or worse for like a couple of years now. scratch or worse for like a couple years now. And I think, you know, I think, you know, intuitively, you'd say, yeah, 36 year old, probably not the best left fielder in baseball. So maybe it was a legacy award, a sort of pat on the butt on the way out. But there's there's there's parts of the process that we could talk about parts of how why is it so hard to get defensive metrics right, right? Because the reason that is it so hard to get defensive metrics right? Because the reason it's so hard is because you have somewhere between 40% and 50% of your chances to prove yourself on defense

as you do on offense. So that makes it tough to figure it out. Also, I think of the 40% and 50% chances you have, something like 70% of them are just easy and don't really add that much to the information. They're just sort of atom balls, you know? Right. The ball that anybody in the league could handle capably.

Yeah. But the big snubs were Lindor, Tatis, Bellinger not winning, even though outs above average had him at the number one outfielder in baseball. And then Gordon winning was a big head-scratcher. Yeah, but yeah, there was just no – I mean, I cover baseball for a living, and I was like,

I can't watch this. Couldn't they have just had it this week? This upcoming week? Just wait a week. I think there's probably a lesson learned that will hopefully be applied. I mean, it won't be a problem next November or for the next few Novembers after that. But remember this, four years from now,

in the year 2024, that the Gold Glove Show will not be aired during election night because of lessons learned here in 2020. So, wow. It's going to be a slow moving off season, like we said, up top. But I think we'll have plenty of ground to cover.

It was fun getting the band back together. If you want to read some of the pieces we were talking about, we talked about Britt's piece with the Nationals making some changes, Eno's free agent projections. I mentioned James Fegan's piece about the Tony La Russa hire. You can check out The Athletic for $1

a week at theathletic.com slash ratesandbarrels. Be sure to give us a follow on Twitter. She's at Britt underscore Jerole. He is at Eno Saris, and I am at Derek Van Ryper. That is going to be it for this episode of Rates and Barrels. We are back with you on Monday. Thanks for listening. Thank you.