Rates & Barrels - The Latest Mets Mess and a Trade Deadline Without Scouts

Episode Date: August 28, 2020

With DVR on vacation, Eno attemps to Wall Pipp him as lead host. Eno and Britt start off with the latest Mets PR nightmare. They discuss the nations social unrest and how it can effect MLB clubhouses. Then it's on to the trade deadline and what impact a lack of scouting in 2020 will have on moves before Monday's deadline.1:00 - Brodie Van Wagenen the Wilpons and the Mets9:48 - Baseball teams make the decision to not play on Thursday19:00 - Biggest holes teams are facing at the trade deadline26:00 - How do you trade for prospects without scouts45:15 - Are scouts sneaking into team facilities? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Rates and Barrels episode 130. This is a voice that you don't normally hear at the beginning because DBR is on vacation. Well-deserved vacation. And today we've got myself, Eno Saris, and Britt Garoli here on Rates and Barrels Friday episode number 130. And it is the 28th of August. And we have a great show for you today. We're going to talk about the Mets debacle. It's always a debacle. LOL Mets will never die. We will talk about team sport and race. Is baseball a team sport and how does that factor into what happened yesterday, the last couple of days. We'll talk about the trade

deadline and then we'll finish up with a little bit of talk about borderline teams and what they should do in this weird, weird trade deadline. But how are we doing on this Friday, Britt? How are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty good. I know you're a little nervous for this. This is a huge hole huge uh hole left here

our friend derrick i've never hosted before i know guys off air he was very nervous palms are probably sweaty cannot confirm uh but i thought that was easy. Well, let's just use my ineptness as a host as the transition to the Mets' ineptness. Because they just can't seem to stay out of their way. What I'm referring to is just the dueling statements yesterday from Brody Van Wagenen, the owners. is just the dueling statements yesterday from Brody Van Wagenen, the owners. And I want to read Van Wagenen's, some of Van Wagenen's, the GM statement, because it just sort of explains the situation. So he writes,

Jeff Wilpon called Commissioner Manford this afternoon to notify him that our players voted not to play. They discussed the challenges of rescheduling the game. Jeff proposed an idea for playing the game an hour later. I misunderstood that this was the commissioner's idea. In actuality, this was Jeff's suggestion. The players had already made their decision, so I felt the suggestion was not helpful. My frustration with the commissioner was wrong and unfounded. So I love this, that he throws his owner under the bus. Yes. I don't know where to begin. Honestly, you know, like you have the GM criticizing the commissioner. You have the owners of this team then talking about the GM and misspelling his name three or four times in that press release.

They hired Brody Van Wagenen. Can't spell his name right. Earlier, and this got deleted and not as much play because it was like the fifth LOL Mets thing on the totem pole. The Mets farm system the totem pole. The Mets farm system account tweeted fire Manfred. And that also happened. So it's so Mets. And I have the screenshot and I was not going to tell you,

I was waiting for the on-air reaction. And I looked up the account. It's blue check. It's verified. It's not some like Mets with five numbers at the end um it's since been deleted but um to me it was refreshing to hear somebody say what all of us have long believed that Rob Manfred does not in fact have the pulse of the players and that no matter how many statements you send out you cannot convince me that Brody messed up who said this. That's just what I think.

Yeah, yeah. And I think there was an interesting reading too, that I saw this as just a straight Brody throwing the owners under the bus and protecting his butt for the next owner, you know, because they're going to be sold. And so he's kind of saying, you know, he's trying to separate himself from his owner's ineptness. I mean, this is kind of unprecedented. The owner owns you as a GM. Normally, you don't ever say anything publicly. As bad as Billy Epler has it right now in Anaheim. Sorry, Los Angeles. In Anaheim, he's not going to tell you that it's his owner's fault.

And I think it really could be. he's not going to tell you that it's his owner's fault. And I think it really could be. The two worst owners in baseball are Artie Moreno and the Wilpons. Which is a tough list to be on. There's some very serious third candidates there. So it's an elusive hill. Yeah, right. And not one you kind of want to be on top of but um but in this case brody just just

you just said no no jeff wilpon's the idiot uh and i'm sorry and it wasn't the commissioner um so he's kind of like telling trying to get better with the commissioner and throw his owner on the bus and just hope he survives uh the sale i think brody says that he misunderstood Jeff Wilpon and someone suggested that Jeff Wilpon lied to Brody Van Wagenen and said it was the commissioner's idea yeah this just seems like an awful lot of like covering up for what we saw on the hot mic was probably the truth also I think we probably missed a huge opportunity to start this show off with a hot mic incident. We missed a very, very big incident. Especially with me trying to do my first hosting.

We could have started this off with a hot mic incident because it seems like 2020 is the year of the hot mics. Oh, it really is. For those of us using Zoom, your mic, just assume it's always on. Just assume even when you're muted, just don't ever say anything you don't want out there. There's a big red light, and that red light makes my sphincter tighten. The best part of this video, though, is that Brody's like, hey, this is just between us three, right?

While he's sitting in front of a microphone. So I think everyone really needs to know. And there's a great story on our site today from Russin about how this all started. A University of Maryland student was like looking at the Mets website and found this video.

That's how this whole thing started. Wow. This video was on the Mets.com. The Mets posted the whole video. Yeah, which is terrific. I encourage you all to read on The Athletic today. Russ and Dodd did a terrific job

tracking down the student who posted it. And it just keeps getting better. It just keeps getting better. Also, earlier in the day, the Mets released Brody's credit card information in an email to the media with his credit card number and his three security codes, zip code.

He thought, this assistant thought that they were getting a Broadway tickets connection. In fact, they sent it to the entire Mets beat. So I don't want to make this an hour of piling on the Mets because we only have an hour. But you could definitely pile on the Mets for the full hour if you wanted to. I feel so bad.

They have great fans. I spent a year in New York. Those people are so long suffering. They've got like, they had this terrific statement from Dominic Smith about everything going on in the world. And what we're talking about is the buffoonery. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think it's really actually instructive in a wins on the field sense too. And the kind of, the things that you don't think are ownership are ownership too. So if you want to like just connect the dots to a larger problem here in New York, the larger problem is Jeff Wilpon. And the problem is like when you think of like, oh, Mets injury stuff or the way the Mets burn players,

like the way the Mets burned Cespedes before they even knew where he was, you know? Yes. That's Jeff Wilpon. That is Jeff Wilpon. And injury stuff, like put some dirt on it stuff, you know, where they're like, you know, and there's stuff I can't even say where there are players that are like, listen, I'm injured, you know, where they're like, you know, and there's stuff I can't even say where there are players that are like, listen, I'm injured, you know, and they're like, we'll give you 10 days and we'll be back just as good as rain, you know? And that's why they always end up with these,

they have terrible injury outcomes. If you just look at number of days on the DL and just money lost to the DL, the Mets are always at the bottom. And it's the ownership. If you look at bad deals, the fact that they didn't trade away Jose Reyes when he was going for a batting title at the very end, they could have gotten something for him at the very end there. They didn't do it because they wanted to have him win a batting title in a Mets jersey. That's meaningless to butts in the seats. It's meaningless to your wins. It's meaningless. It means nothing. And if you look at some of the deals that are given out, I would say something like the Albert Pujols deal in Anaheim, don't necessarily blame the GM that signed it. Anaheim don't necessarily blame the GM that signed it you know right exactly exactly well the Mets have Bobby Bonilla day so I think that right there is probably enough right we all know it's on the

calendar they're gonna pay him till the end of time and I personally was a little disappointed we saw statements from Manfred we saw statements from the Wilpons from Brody and yet nobody found a avenue to blame Jonas Suspedes which to me me just seemed like, you know, they would try to blame him at some point. Right. They blamed him for opting out. I messed up. It was a hot mic. I was thinking about Cespedes and how mad I still was at him.

Yo turned it on. Yo turned it on. He's just off camera. Yo turned it on. Yo turned it on. It's just off camera. But, you know, also, I think there's something amazing about what happened on Wednesday and Thursday in all the sports, but also I think almost a little bit more amazing in baseball. You know, I haven't necessarily been in a basketball clubhouse other than like when I played basketball, but it's a smaller clubhouse, right? Like it's just, there's fewer people. And so there's a little bit more togetherness. And the way that the sport is

played in basketball is you have to, you have to interact with your teammates. You have to pass them the ball. Of course, they have some high-profile dust-ups where one player says, oh, this other player doesn't pass me the ball enough. Right, I get that. That's totally a basketball thing. But that gets figured out because there's only five to seven of you that play regularly, right?

And you have to figure it out. Baseball, man, it says it's a team sport. But do you think baseball is a team sport? I think it's very borderline. In terms of how it's played, it's very one-on-one. Yeah, well, there are cliques. And I think the biggest difference is in basketball, you're talking about a predominantly African-American sport.

In MLB, you're talking about 7.7% of clubhouses are black players. So there's definitely clicks and it's, it's kind of like a long running joke. When you see a player or when I see a player who's African-American, I will usually ask him, Oh, do you know so-and-so? And guys are like, yeah, he's black. So it's very much a small community. They all know each other.

They're tight with each other. Yeah. And this doesn't just extend to the players. This is much a small community. They all know each other. They're tight with each other, yeah. And this doesn't just extend to the players. This is like a small community. The Nationals traveling secretary, Rob McDonald, he's like, oh, yeah, everyone that's black in baseball knows everyone that's black in baseball. It's that small of a group. So I do think there are cliques.

There are certainly the, you know, you see the players who are Dominican born or from similar countries, guys from Venezuela, kind of like click together. It's like a classroom more atmosphere where you have these little groups and some teams do a better job at being a team than others. And, of course, every team will always say we're a brotherhood. But it really wasn't until yesterday when I see Josh Harrison from the Nationals, a black player, Reese Hoskins with the Phillies,

kind of sitting next to each other in a Zoom and really not just saying we're together but showing we're together and as you said you know it's it's a team sport but it's not you know there's a lot of different opinions there's a lot of guys from a lot of different places and i think those seven games that were canceled yesterday was a huge huge moment even bigger you can argue that it is in the nba because we've seen this in the NBA. They do a much better job using their platform. And the players themselves skew very conservative. Yes.

That's just a fact. I had just a hilarious interaction one time with Zach Greinke and Dan Heron about politics in baseball that when we're at a bar sometime, I'll flesh it out for you. But just generally things like when Bauer says, like, you know, 75 percent of my teammates are voting for Trump. Like, I don't actually doubt him. And, you know, I think this is a very conservative clubhouse. So a very conservative clubhouse with cliques that are divided by language lines.

That's why I'm trying to learn Spanish. They're divided by backgrounds. They're divided by race. And so they all kind of came together. And, yes, you heard some grumblings here and there about how the decision was made. you heard some grumblings here and there about how the decision was made. Um, and,

um, you know, there were some teams where they kind of just let their black player not play, uh, Cardinals, um, Cubs. Yeah.

And, and said they had their back, but, but just went out on the field anyway. Um, I don't know, maybe there's some pressure on the Cardinals cause they're so far behind in terms of games played.

Uh, but I think that's also being sort of friendly to their intentions, reading it in a friendly manner. So I don't know. I think it was kind of amazing that it happened. Even linking it back to the Mets thing, I just think you see ownership and management scrambling because the players just did this. They just went out there and did this. And I think actually no matter what you think the way forward is, that's when we get fractured. I think there's a little bit more consensus that there is a problem. And it's hard for me to, like, imagine arguing that there is no problem when you have something like Dominic Smith crying on a Zoom call. Right.

Even if you even if we're fractured about how to go forward, like it was amazing to see this unity in terms of making a statement about there in there being a problem yes and the Mets Marlins I thought was very powerful they go out there 42 seconds of silence 42 of course to honor Jackie Robinson is Jackie Robinson's day today in Major League Baseball usually that's celebrated in April but because of the schedule um it's celebrated today and they have that moment of silence and it's, I thought it was handled so well. Then they, they draped that shirt that just says black lives matter right by home plate. And then they all walk off.

And I thought, man, this is, this is how you use your platform, right? Like you said, whether, whether you're divided on the problem or how to fix the problem or what's

not playing one game going to do. I think Josh Harrison from the nationals kind of spoke about this a little bit. Well, Jackie Robinson was helped by Pee Wee Reese, a white teammate, when things got bad. I think for these guys, just knowing that it's not just the black players that think there needs to be change is important. I think, and you know,

this was mentioned a little bit yesterday, but the Players Alliance, which is made up of about 100 current and former players, black players are donating their salary from yesterday and today to go towards racial inequality efforts. So they are putting their money where their mouth is. I know people say, well, what's this going to do? What's the talking going to do? What's this going to do? A couple millionaires took a day off. No, no, no, no, no. Right. Exactly. So I encourage people to read up on it and see that some of these guys are really dedicated to not just talking about it, but also being about it.

And we've seen a lot of guys, David Price, Joe Ross, opt out and Ian Desmond for not just for COVID reasons, but for these reasons as well. So there's a lot of guys who aren't just standing there and tweeting things and hoping they change. They're trying to move forward. Yeah. For example, the NBA, most of the teams have opened up their arenas as voting centers. And LeBron has a fair amount of voting rights and sort of voting initiatives in his history. So that's something I just, I know about personally, but you know, I know that this isn't just some sort of attention grab, like really,

like you think like baseball players need to attention grab? Like they, I don't think you've lived a day in a baseball player's shoes. Exactly. They would rather less attention. Almost all of them, when they get to work, have someone in their face about something until the day is done. So, I mean, it was just an amazing couple of days where the players really found their voice, a collective voice that I really respect. And one of the upshots of it is that we're just going to have a ton of games today and over the weekend. And to some extent, it's like a fun...

I know that it might have been more powerful if those games had just been banged and we never got those games and there was a serious financial hit. But, you know, baseball as a machine is going to keep going and they're going to play those games eventually. And, you know, there's some benefit for us, I guess, to sit down on Jackie Robinson Day and have a ton of games and and still talk about this. We're still going to talk about this all day today. But now we're going to do it in a way where, you know, they're playing baseball and we can sidle up to whatever couch we've got and drink whatever

beverage we'd like. And one of the things that's really cool is that we've got these dugout mugs as a company that was started in a college baseball dugout. And what they do is they take the barrel of a baseball bat and turn it into a 12ounce mug I've got one and beer goes well in it I can say that then dugout mugs are licensed by baseball and your favorite team you can be favorite team laser engraved onto it I wouldn't do that because I'm an analyst and completely no I I have a little bit of fan left in me. But it's cool. Birchwood baseball bat barrel mug that turns into a beer mug or apple juice mug. You know. And it's perfect for the game to put on display or be the life of the party.

Unique gift for a baseball fan. Check it out at dugoutmugs.com. The Athletic. Use the promo code MLB30 for 30% off your first purchase. That's dugoutmugs.com. The Athletic. And the code code MLB30 for 30% off your first purchase. That's dugoutmugs.com The Athletic. And the code is MLB30. All right. So, you know, the other thing that's happening this weekend, and it just seems so weird because it seems like the, you know, the season just started, but it's the trade deadline. And, you know, I tried to look at, you know, which are the biggest holes. But one of the

things that happened is if you look for the biggest holes, you find a lot of mediocre teams. So, for example, the Nationals third base hole was the was one of the biggest holes in baseball, they have the 30th best 30th best third base situation right now. So I kind of moved on from that, and I highlighted something like the Braves third base situation, Indians outfield. What do you think is the biggest hole? Because you can't just look at the worst situation. You kind of have to look at the best teams that have the biggest holes.

So what do you think is the biggest hole that needs to be filled right now? Is it the Braves third base, Indians outfield? Is there something else I'm missing? Yeah, I think the Braves are a good team. And I think that they've proven that if they just make a little bit of an upgrade, you know, there's a lot of mediocrity going on. Like we said, it's a short season. And I think for the Braves adding that one piece could put them over the

top. You know, we've seen, we know how good the Dodgers are. We know they're on some crazy pace and we know the Yankees are good, but they're hurt, which like, all right, cool. Anything else new else new I mean it seems like that's kind of their deal every year but for me I think Atlanta making that adjustment has a much bigger effect you mentioned the Nats they're like the epitome of a shrug year like they won last year they look flat it doesn't seem to me that anyone really cares too much if they win or lose. It's tough, right? Because we're only on Zooms.

But I think I've seen Davey upset twice this year. And one's been over COVID. One's been over the racial injustices. It's never been like, oh, God, the bullpen blew a game. I'm so upset about this. I think they had their day in the sun. And they're kind of moving on. I'm more interested in the teams, the teams that are like the,

you know, one move could help them. And I think the Braves are in that situation for sure. I think when you look at that team, they, we know what they do, right. They're good.

And then in the playoffs, they choke every year. So if you're an Atlanta fan, you're like, you know what, let's roll the dice. It's a 60 game season. Anything can happen.

Let's upgrade. Let's see what happens. You know, there are good, solid team. They've got a ton of really good young players so yeah i would like to see them upgrade i guess without giving away some of those they have some really good guys not just on their current roster you know you know about akuna and albies and their young talent but their their alternate site um because their triple a gwinnett was Yeah, just absolutely loaded. So that to me is what I want to see happen in terms of contender.

For Braves fans is that Alex Anthopoulos is at the helm and not Mark Shapiro. I think one of the things that happened in Toronto that we saw was that they clashed in terms of how they thought teams should act when they're winning. Mark Shapiro goes and gets Tyjuan Walker for almost nothing, but Tyjuan Walker himself is just basically a fifth starter. I have some confidence that Alex Anthopoulos might swing for the fences.

He could get Lance Lynn and Kyle Seager. And if he did do that, he would take two places on his roster that are basically replacement level. Two places on his roster that are basically replacement level, you know, two places on the roster that are at zero and make them at least league average, if not better. And if you just think about that lineup with Seager instead of Riley, if you think about that playoff rotation going Freed, Lynn, Anderson, you know, instead of having to fill in with all these other guys that have flaws like Tukey Toussaint's command or Sean Newcomb's command or whatever it is. So I think,

you know, a Lynn Seeger thing, if they did that, would be pretty amazing. And I'm not even sure that Lynn Seeger would actually cost them anything more than something like Drew Waters, who is like a good, interesting centerfield capable bat that has really bad problems in terms of contact and play discipline so not the not the biggest piece they could give up that's pache you know um and you know i because lynn is a rental and seager costs 19 million next year i i think that those things are possible indians outfield is actually a tougher one for me because the Indians outfield has been bad for so long and a rental doesn't seem like

the right idea here what they need is someone to be good so I guess if the Braves want to do something like Pache for Clevenger or Plesak that would make more sense almost to the Indians because they keep churning out starters do you think that the Indians should do something long term or just patch it up?

I don't know what to do with that. The Indians' offense in general is kind of sputtering. Yeah, I'm with you on the long term. And you do wonder, like with Plesak and Clevenger, do they want to trade those guys, right? Especially given everything that happened earlier in the year, the fact that they were demoted, breaking team rules. For those who were kind of living under a rock. It was a huge deal. You know, they sent them to the alternate site.

And I do think that, yeah. And, you know, obviously his follow-up Instagram apology probably did not help. I do wonder, and it seems like there was a little bit of this and scouts kind of wondered was Clevenger starting just to trade him, right? Was he up here just to be shown off? And I think there's something to that. What's kind of cool to me is to see some of these teams like the White Sox adding,

right? They get, they get George Dyson from the pirates. You know, teams like the Padres are going to be in it. Teams like the Marlins have said that they're going to be guys. They're going to be interested. They are not going to be sellers.

They're going to go for it. They're in second place. I just looked, they're still over 500, which is remarkable. So I think that to me is going to be kind of cool to see, you know, is like these teams that probably wouldn't have been in it in a regular season now have a chance. So you might see a mix of short-term moves because, you know, are the Marlins really going to be in it next year? Probably not,

but they could this year. So why not roll the dice for a few weeks? Not every team is kind of in the situation of the Nationals where it's like, ah, we don't really need to go for it. We just won. What would a playoff berth do to the Orioles? Would it rejuvenate a fan base? Would it help sell some tickets for next year? I think these are important things to kind of look at

in advance to Monday, and I hope we see some deals. I do, because there's nothing worse than like a dud trade deadline. I hope we see some down-to-the-wire deals. A flurry the last hour. I'm a little bit worried about that because, you know, what are baseball executives?

Like they're risk-averse, right? Right. You know, like one way I put it is like when someone trades like a Mookie Betts they're risk averse, right? Like they, you know, like one day, one way I put it is like, when, when someone trades like a Mookie Betts or, um, you know, when they make a big trade and they trade away a veteran, you know, it, it actually might make the most sense to trade him like almost one for one, you know, and just be like, we want that young player. Give us that young player. It never happens that way. You know, there's always three or four names in that. And why is that? Because they want all the lottery tickets. They want more chances to be right. You know,

they'd rather not take the biggest swing and miss. And then everyone says, oh my God, you got nothing for Mookie Betts, you know? Right, right. They'd rather have a couple other names on that list to be like, no, look, we got this other guy down here. He's in AA. He's looking good. And this year is just full of risk. The risk is that

everyone gets in the playoffs. So the risk is I sell something to... I sell a long-term piece to buy a short-term rental and and then I get into the playoffs, and I lose two games, and I'm out. Or three games. You know, like the first series are best of five, right? So there's just – Right.

I mean, yeah. Well, what's crazy to me, I don't know how you feel about this, is like teams trying to get these prospects when no one's had a look at any of these alternate sites. teams trying to get these prospects when no one's had a look at any of these alternate sites. For those who aren't aware, and I wrote this earlier in the week, the scouts are not allowed at any ballpark this year, which to me seems a little silly. They say it's for safety. I think it's really just the fact that Rob Manfred wants to kind of streamline the way all these teams run and have say in all of what all these teams do, whether it's minor league teams or scouts. But they're kind of flying blind, and they have this data sharing system,

which only 20 of the 30 teams are involved in. So if you're not sharing data with a team or even so, are you trusting if you're like the Red Sox, like what the Yankees are sending to you, you know, I don't know. There just seems to be like a lot of, a lot of interesting things at play here. Like, okay, maybe you're only seeing this one angle of this guy that you might want and you're not seeing this. So I think that might hold up deals. Yeah. You can't trust data that someone's sending you. And even the video might be somehow manipulated or just be

in a certain manner that doesn't help you the way you want. Like, um, you know, I've definitely, uh, you know, I know of, uh, places that have asked for edutronic video from places and they've just been like, they've gotten the wrong angle and they'd be like, well, that's, that's not what we wanted. We want it on the release. And will the other team comply or will they say, no, that's all you get. Um, also this is news. I have asked around a little bit to, to find out which teams are not sharing.

Um, and, uh, I got a partial list from somebody and it's the best they can tell. And it's the teams that are not sharing right now are Colorado, the White Sox, Milwaukee, the Padres, Rangers, and Nationals. Interesting. Well, the Nationals are upset that they're, they're very much a scout friendly team. So that doesn't surprise me um we'll see then there so that to me takes out a huge element you're talking about you know that was a partial list but it's apparently 20 out of 30 teams i also heard you know from an executive earlier this week that some teams have just on the side

agreements like for example arizona might say hey we're not sharing with the dodgers but we'll share with this team because we feel okay with this team. We're not putting it in the data sharing system. So it's just a weird, it's a weird time. And you can sit here all day and say, whether scouts are important or not important and teams have different, you know, different viewpoints on that. But I do think, especially right now um having eyes on a guy watching how he reacts watching like you said his release points certain angles you cannot do that over a video sent to you by a team that's trying to sell you on something and i think that's a huge down arrow on just not to be a downer but like it's just a huge down arrow on on on big trades. Like, like just imagine trying to put together a JD Martinez trade right now. You,

the, the Red Sox are motivated to, to, to get that money off the roster maybe, but the acquiring team has to now like convince his owner next year. When you don't know how many people you're going to have in the fan is how many fans are going to have the seats. If you're going to be allowed to have people in, people in in in you don't know what your income is going

to look like next year i want you to take on 20 million dollars of salary and then the year after that as well and we got to trade some prospects here that we don't even know ourselves that much about because they just keep facing the same player, the same pitchers. Exactly. Yep. You talked about this last week, the issue with like these guys only throwing outside, right? Only learning outside because no one wants to come in on their own players, which I thought was a great point.

So you're not getting to see all of this. And to me, like what was the downside of just opening up the ballpark to scouts when they, one affiliate in Philly is letting fans in at Lehigh Valley, but now it just seems to me like a very calculated way to marginalize them. Like, Oh, we got by without them. So we don't need them.

Um, and you know, when you look at the last two world series champions, the nationals and the red Sox, Mike Rizzo and Dave Dombrowski really believed in that blend, right? There's too much data to ignore. We know how important analytics are,

but sometimes when everyone has the same data, it's that one little person who saw him or who said like, Oh, I saw him, you know, throw a temper tantrum or, you know, that guy's lazy. He didn't show up for early work. Um, it's those little things that can matter, especially with these prospects and these younger players. So yeah, those things, those things matter on the margins because there's, there's a lot of talent and not always, the players don't always turn that talent into success. And that has to do with the kind of things that, I think that scouting is almost mostly important with makeup. It's the hardest thing to scout because you get limited snapshots and it may just be in a bad day or whatever. But I think it's the most important thing.

But first, let's have a quick word from our sponsors. We'll be right back. All right. So we were just talking about, you know, how there may be a down arrow on changes and movement. And I think that it's even more interesting when it comes to like a team, like you're talking about the Marlins, the Marlins have a 31% chance of making the playoffs, the nationals at 19%, the reds at 45%.

You know, these things, these teams in particular are, have sub 500 records. At least the reds and nationals do, but they still have a chance in the short season. Like, do you see them making any moves?

Like, do you see the Nationals making any moves? Like, are the Marlins going to buy? And if they're going to buy like an outfield or something, like who would they buy? People are asking the Reds about selling Bauer, but I think what happens with these teams is probably nothing. Yeah. No, you're right.

Because like Josh Hader in Milwaukee is a great example. They're like, yeah, we'll deal them, but we need the house. We need everyone for him. So you're just not going to see that that much. So I think you're right. You're going to see a lot of either stand pat complacency, or you're going to see these deals that are just like, meh, whatever guys who are being moved to are the last guy in a bullpen or just adding some depth pieces. So, um, I don't think there's going to be a lot of movement. I kind of wish that there was, cause it's always exciting and fun to like be,

be on Twitter that final day and to see everything go down. And you know, all these guys change hands, but I don't think, I think for GMs, the risk is high and the reward is low. We don't even know if we're going to make it to the end of the season. I mean,

me and you have made it a half an hour without mentioning COVID-19 this week. So I think that's probably a record for us. Only two positive tests this week. That was some good news. Exactly. Let's not forget that there is always going to be that cloud of we get to the playoffs and a team tests or something happens. So there's always going to be that as well.

And that's why they're talking about having a bubble for the playoffs um one thing that we that we were discussing was like the the possibility that um a that the bubble hurt ratings for basketball uh because um they had to play all day they only had two courts, right? Right. And so they had to play all day and they had to have games at like 8am on the, on the West coast. Um, that maybe that's not as much of a problem when you're talking just playoffs, maybe you only have two games a day anyway, and maybe going into a bubble, uh, they were talking about it maybe even in the final weeks going into a bubble, uh, just to kind of preserve, um preserve the integrity of the game, I guess. Like, cause you just don't want a team to like not make the playoffs.

Cause they got a COVID outbreak in the last week of the season. Right. Right. I think that part is hard. I don't know. I think that would be hard to do though. Like over the last few weeks of the season, the playoffs, I think probably has to happen. Right. Our colleague Ken Rosenthal said they're exploring sites. It looks like Texas is a site, potentially. Out in California is a site, which I think is probably going to be the way to go.

During the playoffs in general, though, they do have some day games. There are 4 o'clock games a lot. You can do a 4 o'clock and an 8 o'clock, and you're still kind of appealing to a good chunk of the country. So I don't think it's that much of an issue like it would be maybe in the nba who had so many games you know they didn't just have two games they're trying to squeeze in a lot more um i i don't know how though in the regular season the final few weeks they can just bubble up these teams do you like everyone go to texas that doesn't yeah the

playoff seems like a clean break right like we have a couple days now everyone get to this place and we're and like we'll change it up now right right like you have to you have to have some sort of clean break like that's the whole thing about the bubble is like you like honestly you want like two weeks right like that's what, that's what they, that's what basketball did. Like, before you get in the bubble, like, there has to be, like, certain amount of time to kind of make sure that you didn't just bring the disease

into the bubble with you. Right, right, right. Like, quarantine for a few days, for sure. But yeah, I don't, I think it's impossible to do for 30 teams over the regular season. And even with the playoff break, it's impossible to do, right?

Because the playoffs start, like, two days after the season. So, you know, I guess you could test everybody and then two days later, they're in the bubble or something. I don't know. They're going to have to think this one through. And if there's any, if we've learned anything from how the season started, they might not anticipate all of the correct things. They may not get it right. No, it's interesting. And I don't know if you saw this, but Rob Manfred spoke to the Los Angeles Times two days ago or yesterday. And he said a successful season, in his mind, is getting through the playoffs, getting to the World Series, you know, no one getting sick and then seeing an owner with that World Championship trophy.

And to me, it's weird that he mentioned the owner. He works for the owners, man. Yeah, kind of shows where he's at. But, you know, that to him is a success is, you know, the Steinbrenners or someone just holding that trophy at the end. Getting, just getting there is, is going to be the epitome of a success. He said some interesting things in that interview. He also said that he feels like if they got rid of the minor leagues,

that these prospect leagues kind of like the alternate sites now would perform just as well in terms of interest. So it was really interesting you kind of got a sense we already know he's very pro owner and the sense of like where this is all going um but it does seem like all these little things getting rid of minor league teams not letting scouts in it's like death by a million paper cuts in terms of like where we're now going um dude i've talked to player development people yes, the minor leagues is about like personal development, like getting better as a player without the sort of competition aspect, just like refining that curveball or this or that, right? But yes, that happens in minor leagues. to win, to learn to compete, to learn what works, you know?

And you're just not going to get that from playing your own teammates over and over again. So, yes, I've also heard that when they cut teams, it's very likely that what ends up happening is the instructional leagues start to get bigger, right? So supposedly the D-backs had like 75 people at instructional leagues last year. And that was the most, and people were kind of laughing about it within the game. But it may become the norm once everybody, because everyone's going to lose either one or two teams,

minor league teams next year. That's what I've heard. Right, it to me doesn't make sense either it's the same thing as the scouts why not let if kansas city wants two rookie teams why and they think that's an advantage why not let them do it right just seems to me like the game is moving towards this very like homogenized thing where every team has to be the same and that's not how you win you have different payrolls you have different analytics departments that's not how you win you have different payrolls you have different analytics departments no one is saying you can only have this many analytics guys why are we now capping players and teams and leagues i agree with you on the win thing uh buckshaw walter who's former orioles manager he's been with the yankees said that in when they george

steinbrenner was alive if you didn't win you in serious trouble. It was taken as like developing their foot speed, developing their arm speed, developing their sense of winning. And I do think that's something that's kind of getting lost here along the way, that culture of winning. Yeah, I mean, like just think about a pitcher, like sequencing is important.

I know that some teams like don't even really game plan for minor league teams, for minor league games. And they just game plan to the major league level. Huge mistake. Because. What? Yeah. Like there are teams.

Should I out one? I don't know. Yes. Out them. Out them. I heard that the White Sox did not see a game plan for their hitters or pitchers until they got to the major leagues. Maybe it's different now.

Wow. game plan for their hitters or pitchers until they got to the major leagues maybe it's different now but wow but like like why wouldn't you prepare them for the same process that they would do at the major league level then you like create a bunch of players like nah i don't what like what the pitcher throws nah just get out there and feel it out what then you're gonna be behind other people you're already adapting to a faster game, better athletes, the third deck in stadiums, outfielders from the minors talk all the time about how the ball plays differently in big league parks. They are already hit with, you know, they call it the biggest jump in sports,

the minors to the majors. And to hear that, I mean, why would you overwhelm these guys? I mean, I know the White Sox are undergoing change right now. They fired a lot of minor league coaches and they're trying to change things up a little bit. And there, there's maybe a bit of a crisis of leadership because Kenny Williams is not necessarily very pro-analytics, you know?

He's a very old school kind of scout guy. And I think that maybe some of this derives from his leadership. But there is some change happening there. And generally, you have to train people to win. And I don't think that what's happening right now is good for minor leaguers. No, but I don't understand how, like, even though back in the day, like I said, with the Yankees, it was like, let's win. Like, that shouldn't be an analytics thing to be like, hey, let's try our best to win the game.

That should just be a thing no matter what you believe. Like, sometimes, like, and I hate to get on my my soapbox but it's like the whole participation trophy stuff i mean at what point is it like we're actually trying to win here and compete this is the big leagues you know yeah we're not just trying to gather team control like years of control too which is the issue i have with the data sharing it's like oh let's all put our stuff like you talk to people in the game that aren't participating, like the Nationals, they're kind of horrified by it. I thought we were trying to be better than these teams.

Now it's like, here's what we have. Show us what you have and we'll work together. That's not how baseball goes. Oh, yeah, let's share our notes. Let's share everything. What? No. This is like I studied for the test and I'm going to beat your ass. That's how I feel like what? No, this is like, I studied for the test

and I'm going to beat your ass. Yeah, but it's still kind of tough when you don't have the scouts in there. Like, you know, and you don't have teams coming through your, if you had teams coming through your stadiums, you'd have data, you know? And the way that TrackMan worked at the beginning was data sharing.

What happens is like, if you're the University of North Carolina, you upload your data and you say to you, you tell TrackMan, I'd like to get Stanford data. I'd like to get, you know, teams that aren't necessarily in your league. Right. Or I want to get somebody from the SEC or blah, blah, blah. You know, like you kind of there was a data sharing part of TrackMan. So they're like data sharing i i'm uh i'm ambivalent on i think you could do data sharing and still dice the data better uh look at the data in a different way use it to better into better um into better ways uh but when you don't

have data or scouting and you can't even put a person in those um those parks i don't know what you do like i i don't know what you do like i like why would the marlins uh why would why would like why would anybody really sell anything right like why would anybody sell a real like i was thinking about anthony santander right um i think he's a find for for the oroles. He may not be around when the Orioles are good again. He's not necessarily maybe a foundational piece. In other years, you might trade Anthony Santander for like when they did like Zach Gallen for Jazz Chisholm, right? That sort of deal where you trade Anthony Santander for like three or four pieces that you think, oh, we really think two or three of these are impact. Santander for like three or four pieces that you think, oh, we really think two or three of these are impact.

So we're kind of we're spreading the talent out and trying to get more of a talent base rather than just having Anthony Santander. And that's it. I don't think you can do that this year because you just have you just don't know about these players are going to get. You're looking at old data and you're and you don't have any scouting on them. So right. Like team like players

with more than one year of team control i just really doubt they're gonna move like a guy like danny duffy maybe he moves but he's owed a lot of money and or a fair amount of money and it's only one more extra year of control but like a guy like santander like i just think he's gonna stay put no you're right and you kind of hit it on the head earlier saying the lottery tickets and And this year it's even worse. It's like blind lottery tickets. Like, I don't even know what you're, you know, you don't even know what you're, you don't even like your odds. You don't like your chances. You've got nothing, especially if you're not sharing data and you have no scouts, like some of these teams, you've got nothing. So I think they've kind of telegraphed it already, right? Like this isn't that important to them. This trade line is not that important to

them. So they're just probably okay. Say, right right like i'm not sharing data and i'm not playing scouts so why would i saw this yesterday like the carter kibu and people were like oh other teams like him he's the nat's top prospect they just demoted him he's struggling at third base why would the nationals trade that guy for an unknown commodity out there that they haven't laid eyes on they have no data on and they've got a young cheap kid that they really like they just they might trade him but they're not going to do it now they don't have anything to feel good about that return and mike rizzo is a former scout he's a scout guy he relies on his scouts he i just don't see them pulling any kind of move like that because it's literally like flying blind right now a lot of these teams are flying here some of the teams on here are weird though that aren't sharing um you know colorado colorado showed up on my list

as having like four of the biggest holes in baseball of any team that's like that has a 30 chance of making the playoffs right so it's like colorado like you could get a bat with a capital b just like a bat i mean they already kind of try to do it with matt kent but like you could get a bat with a capital b just like a bat i mean they already kind of try to do it with matt kemp but like you could get a bat of any kind and place them anywhere on your roster and probably improve your team and right but they're not going to do any data sharing so this this seems like a major down arrow on their chances of making trades but then the padres are on here maybe it's like what you're saying to the Padres are like, sure,

we're going to make trades. We'll even give you data, but like, we don't want everyone to get our data. We're just going to give you data. But then like, would you trust AJ Prowler, dude?

No. Oh, I mean, I think, I think that's the, I had heard. Yeah. I had heard scouts were sneaking into facilities and I had like three or four guys that were

like, hey, is that Preller? Because it just sounds like him. He's just kind of shady. Scouts are sneaking in. Yes. Of course they are. They're sneaking in. And they're going to home facilities and the home team is like making them a coach or whatever.

Just like that's easy. But they're also sneaking into opposing facilities to get some eyes somewhere. Oh, to self-scout? To self-scout? Yeah-scout are they yeah like are you dressing up as the fanatic like how are you getting into these dude that is no but it's happening self-scouting is something that of course happens but if they're in a coach uniform that that that's when like a player starts to get really paranoid yeah i know so there's all this who's that dude over there yeah Who's that dude over there?

He keeps looking at me. Yeah. Is he a coach? There's all this shady stuff. Coaches are supposed to help you get better. Scouts are supposed to evaluate you. That's a very different thing. I know.

It's like, do they have a little camera on their hat? You're starting to get a little paranoid. Oh, my God. I mean, I know. But I'm going to be almost asked for this because they decided- Why didn't they let scouts in, man? You wrote that story asked for this because they decided they let scouts in man you wrote that story right why didn't they let scouts in so they allege that some owners were and i heard this too they put it up to a vote and some owners i mean some clubs did not want scouts in there obviously some are more pro scouts than others but they said hey mlb said you know what

it's not a competitive it's a competitive disadvantage if some people let their scouts in and some don't. Okay, again, with the participation trophy, this is not an even playing field. If the Royals want their scouts in, the Nationals want their scouts in, and the Yankees or the Astros don't, that's on them, right? Like why, again, why are teams being told how to run? They are private entities. Why are they being told that employees, they're already paying. They're paying these scouts already.

Why are they being told how they can use them? That's, I think, really what's an unfortunate trend under Manfred is now being told, like, this is what you can do. This is what you can't do with your team. I think it's BS that baseball couldn't unilaterally say you have to let scouts in. I mean, the stadiums are huge and there are multiple entrances. You could just have a scout entrance, right? If you're talking about COVID, right? You just have a scout entrance and then scouts only interact with scouts.

I only went once and I don't know if I'm going back. Yeah. But when I went, I only interacted with PR and other writers that's the only person that I was within 20 feet of you know uh except for Dallas Braden by accident uh but we were yeah I was accident yeah you had an accidental thing so did I I was accidentally in the elevator first day of the season with a bunch of the Yankees. I took the elevator to the wrong floor. And I almost passed out. I'm like, oh, God, here comes Stanton and Judge.

And maybe Gardner. They're masked up. And I'm like, oh, God, they're tier one. You could have had the only in-person interview of the year. We're tier 85 in the media. We're not even allowed in that elevator. Make scouts tier 86. Make them have their own bathroom and their own entrance and like find a way to get them in the state of like

like even if you put them in the outfield yes that's not they'd grumble and they'd be annoyed but they'd be in right they'd have binoculars and as you know scouts don't sit next to each other in the scout section they've've been socially distancing before. It was cool. They were always kind of like, you know, I'll take this seat. They don't like sitting near each other. They don't want anybody to see what they're writing down or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

But can I hear about the Dallas Braden accidental thing? Because I got the elevator. I was lost. I just couldn't find out where I was supposed to be. And I turned the corner and I'm like, Dallas. And he's like, whoa, buddy. Good to see you, but stand back. Over there.

Yeah. Isn't it so funny? I was like, I can't get in this elevator. They're like, oh, it says four. You can get in. And I'm like, oh, my God. I'm going to lose my job because I got into an elevator with a bunch of Yankees by accident. I haven't gotten into an elevator with a you know a bunch of Yankees by accident I haven't gotten into an elevator with someone uh since February so yeah I was like sweating you know

and I'm like what if like tomorrow they say the Yankees have a COVID outbreak what if I'm a carrier and I don't know I better go get going through my head you know and it's like 2020 I see a player and my first thought is like get get away from me. Ah, you're tier one. I get nervous around the Yankees anyway, because they're all like eight feet tall. Also true. I'm like, these are monsters here. I mean, they're probably not even breathing the same air as me in the elevator. That's how much taller they are. So I guess it's fine.

There's no risk of transmission. They're up there. Oh, all right. Well, it's going to be a fun weekend. There will be trades. Maybe not the biggest ones in the world, but I'm watching the Braves in particular to see what they do. Maybe the A's will get a starter.

But we get to watch trade deadline. We get to watch so much baseball, doubleheaders galore. So it's setting up to be a fun one. I hope you have a great weekend. And if you are enjoying this show on a platform that allows you to rate and review this podcast, please give us a rating and review. Tell us especially how you think about the Friday episodes. They're a little bit different than the other two and will allow us to kind of tweak the

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