Rates & Barrels - Yankees-Rays Drama & The Most Fun Teams in Baseball

Episode Date: September 4, 2020

Eno, DVR and Britt discuss this week's drama in the Yankees-Rays' series, the most fun teams in baseball, MLB's improved process for managing the pandemic, Evan Drellich's piece about commissioner Rob Manfred, and what they're looking forward to during the long holiday weekend. Rundown1:41 Yankees-Rays Rivalry, Aroldis Chapman & Intent8:24 Are the Rays the Best Team in the American League?12:19 What Makes a Team Fun to Watch?20:50 Clevinger Debuts with Padres & Optimal Clubhouse Dynamics28:53 The A's Return to Play; Has MLB Improved Its Management of the Pandemic?36:27 Reflecting on Rob Manfred's Time as Commissioner Follow Eno on Twitter: @enosarrisFollow Britt on Twitter: @Britt_GhiroliFollow DVR on Twitter: @DerekVanRipere-mail: [e-mail] Get 40% off a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/ratesandbarrels Interested in picking up a Dugout Mug? Go to dugoutmugs.com/TheAthletic and use promo code “MLB30" for 30% off your first purchase! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The economy is getting back underway and with it, the world of pro sports. Stay ahead of the curve with the unparalleled tools of two world-class news desks covering developments across finance, economics, technology, and sports. Subscribe to Bloomberg.com. And if you are not already a subscriber to The Athletic, for a limited time, receive a complimentary subscription to The Athletic. Go to Bloomberg.com slash subscribe to sign up today. Welcome to Rates and Barrels episode number 134. It is Friday, September 4th. We've got like three weeks and change left in this crazy 2020 MLB regular season.

On this episode, we will discuss the brewing rivalry between the Yankees and Rays. Things got pretty heated earlier this week. Mike Clevenger debuted with his new team, which happens to be maybe the most fun team in the league. Of course, the San Diego Padres. We'll talk about the A's getting back into action and the possibility that Major League Baseball is getting better at handling playing baseball in a pandemic. We'll also discuss Evan Drellick's piece about Rob Manfred because we have been criticized or questioned for maybe being too critical of the commissioner on this show. So I think in fairness, we will discuss Evan's piece, which raises some questions like perhaps Rob Manfred is good at his job, even though we don't really like how he does his job.

That's at least a possibility, right? So we'll discuss all that and what we're looking forward to on this long weekend. I know we've got a limited amount of time, so we're just going to get right at it. Let's start with this Yankees-Rays rivalry, guys. Aroldis Chapman, did he or did he not intentionally throw at Mike Brasso? Britt, we'll start with you. Probably.

Based on what I've heard from guys on that team about Chapman, I would say probably. Vito? on that team about Chapman, I would say probably. You know? I'm going to do more of a shrug because he has had terrible fastball command this year. He doesn't have good command normally,

but if you look at a scatter shot of his fastballs this year, he's more out of the zone than in the zone. So, I don't know he throws hard if he misses it it looks real bad and in this case it looked real bad so i'm sympathetic to people who think he did on purpose but i also want to point out this dude does not have good command can i just say that kevin cash is i've got a whole stable of guys who throw 98, might be my favorite quote of the year so far in 2020. Probably something he'll regret saying, but what a badass line. You want to go? Let's go.

It did cost him a game. He did seem a little out of character, right? Because he seemed like he was just fed up, and then all of a sudden he was just a really angry, fed up person that is usually pretty measured like kevin cash doesn't seem overly emotional to me most of the time and that was clearly a situation where the emotions got the best of him has that appeared on a rotoware t-shirt yet because if it hasn't i assume it will well the rotoware people are yankees people though so

so maybe kenny's not going to make that shirt now that i think about it well what you know one thing that was interesting about cash's comments too was because it's i don't think it's only about hitting people and pitching inside because that's kind of like a pirates reds thing and if you look at like the hit by pitches this year or historically like pirates are top seven um and reds are top 10 and like they kind of go at it all the time. And Pirates had this whole finding where they were like, if you pitch inside, that pitch outside is more effective. And that came out in Travis Sotchick's book, Big Data Baseball. So they're all about pitching inside and they hit people and all that stuff. The Yankees are 21st in baseball with hitting people.

So Cash said that they're unprofessional generally and he said that you can hear them chirping in their dugout all the time um i wonder how much of this is like pandemic baseball stuff because it's like maybe he's just hearing a lot more of it because he you can hear everything in the ballpark. Because, I don't know, like, is it unprofessional to kind of chirp at the other team? No. Isn't that like what people do in donuts? Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

I was in the American League East for 10 years, right, and covering the Orioles. And I will say this. There's just something about the Yankees that it seems like things are always escalated with them. It was every time the Orioles played them, you don't see the rays getting into brawls with other teams, right? It just seems like there's something about the Yankees,

you know, whether it's, you know, that a little bit of where the Yankees or, or, you know, that mystique, but it does seem like,

uh, there's always these altercations and Tampa Bay doesn't have a history. Like you know, that mystique. But it does seem like there's always these altercations. And Tampa Bay doesn't have a history. Like you said, it's not like every team Tampa Bay plays, Kevin Cash goes nuts. Like, I covered Kevin Cash as a player briefly. He's very steady. Guys love playing for him because he has that fire,

but he doesn't normally talk trash. So I think it kind of showed you maybe they were fed up with everything going on. The interesting thing with the hit by pitches, and you know, you might have more to say about this, but how much of it to this year and they're up is the fact that you've got all these guys promoted who really shouldn't be in the big leagues too.

I really recommend Mark Carrick's piece on this because he kind of goes into a lot of different theories. And one is kind of cool. It's like a heat aggression theory that basically uh we jumped into the middle of the season and because we jumped into the middle of the season we're getting the like hottest like most angry most red ass part of the season and that's why people are just hitting each other and that actually would put a different sort of spin on this raise yankees encounter right it's just like oh we just jumped into the middle of August, you know, it's just like hot and everyone's pissed. Um, but the

theory that I liked the most, he did look into, um, uh, the connection between how quickly, like, uh, between, um, how much experience you have and how likely you are to hit a batter, right? So that's sort of what you're talking about, like just these green people coming up. That wasn't, they didn't find a connection there. There's no connection between how long you've been in baseball and how likely you are to hit someone. However, you're still diluting the talent pool, right? Like if you, we have three times more injuries than we normally do in pitching this season.

That means that we are using pitchers that we didn't plan on using. So that does mean that probably they're not as good as the pitchers you did plan on using, which means that they probably don't have as good a command. The other thing that's happening, I think, is everyone in baseball is pitching up in the zone and there's more strikeouts up in the zone. It's also closer to things you can hit, arms, shoulders, stuff like that. And also the kids that we're now asking to pitch up in the zone were asked by their high school coaches and their college coaches to command the ball down in the zone.

So a lot of these guys, like if you just watch Sonny Gray, when he's trying to pitch up in the zone, he doesn't command it well up there. And so I think that's the largest part of hit-by-pitches. And I think the Yankees have actually been out in the forefront when it comes to throwing high in the zone. I think that's why they don't lead the league in hit-by-pitches is because they've been throwing high in the zone before almost anybody. And they've got guys who can do it, I think.

And it's probably in the scouting report, right? You know that's what you're going to get with the Yankees when you're facing them. It's interesting, thinking about the Rays for a second and Cash's comment about the scouting report, right? You know that's what you're going to get with the Yankees when you're facing them. It's interesting thinking about the Rays for a second and Cash's comment about the stable of guys. It's kind of not as deep as you think anymore. The Rays, for all the things they do well, they've had a lot of pitching injuries. I mean, you look in the bullpen, Nick Anderson's on the IL, Oliver Drake's on the IL, Jose Alvarado's on the IL. In the rotation, Ryan Yarbrough, Yanni Chirinos, Brendan McKay, some other

relievers, Chaz Rowe, Jalen Beeks, Colin Poche, Andrew Kittredge. This is a team that's been just torn apart by injuries, and they're still winning anyway, which says a lot about their depth, right? And it's true of the Yankees, too. The Yankees have dealt with their fair share of injuries, and they're still

the Yankees. That's what makes a great team a great team. But I look at this Rays team, and I start to wonder, are they good enough to win the World Series? Are they a potential World Series favorite now coming out of the American League at this point? Ooh, that's a good point. I mean, well, here's what they have proven, right, that they own the Yankees.

I think that much is pretty obvious. And I think that tensions probably escalated from the fact that also Tampa Bay had really crushed them in the season series, right? If they meet again, we're talking about playoffs. They're done playing each other. So I don't know if they have enough to get to the World Series, like you said.

However, you look at last year, and I didn't think the Nats were going to get out of the wild card. It all is about who could put together a hot week or two. So once you get there, and especially now with these 16 teams, I think we're going to see a lot more of like March Madness-esque stuff where it's like, oh, that team beat that team. I think we might see a little more upsets than in years past because there's so many

people in it. All it takes is one or two good games and all of a sudden you advance. I mean, it's going to kind of be topsy-turvy. I'm going to push my glasses up my snows here. Well, actually, they only have one guy who averages 98 on the fastball, and that's Peter Fairbanks. No, so...

One thing that I think is interesting about the Rays is, like, I get a whiff of the A's from them where they have a really good collection of players that, like, fit and make them win on a consistent basis but do they have the stars when it's like a five game series do they have the stars that just like the the madison bum garner put them on your shoulder and just pitch like you know like like just like blood's coming out of your eyeballs i don't know what that means um so uh but i feel like like i could see it with like, if Snell and, and, and Glassnow

just have like an amazing three weeks, right? I think that's really important. And then maybe they get a guy or two back. Like Nick Anderson comes back, uh, to join. I like Diego Castillo. I like Peter Fairbanks. I think they have maybe enough in the back there to make it work. It's not as much as it used to be. And they will have to get a little bit lucky on like the fourth and fifth reliever

too. But they also need that guy on the hitting side. Like who's the guy on the hitting side that's just going to just go crazy? Is it Austin Meadows? And like him and Snell just going to take the team and go with it. And another way of saying this is like, I do find the Rays really exciting as a team. But when I try to drill down and tell you why I find them really exciting, I'm not sure I know why. Because it's not like the other kind of most exciting team in baseball, the Padres.

Like, you know, Fernando Tatis is very obviously just a one-man excitement show. And they've got other things going for them. Great pitchers and stuff like that. With the Rays, sometimes I'm waiting to see what kind of innovation they might bring to the game. It's almost like a strategical excitement. What do you guys think are the most exciting teams in baseball right now? We've talked about the Padres a little bit on the show, right? They absolutely are part of this conversation.

I kind of agree with your stance on the Rays. They're kind of like the A's. They're a smart team. They have been a smart team for a few years. They've got a few exciting players. They've got a few pitchers you want to tune into and watch, but they don't necessarily have that star power with position players. They don't have the must-see TV position player out there felt right this season. And Austin Meadows could be in that boat. I don't know if he's feeling that way or not, but this is a team that does lack some star power.

I don't think that means that they're not fun to watch, but I do think it puts them a level below a team like San Diego. But what else makes a team fun to watch, right? Is it the energy they bring? I mean, you can see that, I think, on some rosters. The Cubs, I think, are an older team that do that really well. They clearly have good clubhouse chemistry. They're one of the louder teams I've heard. You can hear almost everything when you're watching a game on TV, of course, right now. right now. So I would put them kind of surprisingly in that bucket. And I'm a fan of one of their biggest rivals. And yet I think they're like one of the more engaging teams to watch right now, even though their pitching is kind of terrible. I mean, who do you think falls onto this list? Yeah. I mean, how can you not mention the Dodgers, right? Because if you're going to talk about star power, aren't they a team just full of star power? They have, I think, almost 100 runs run differential already,

and we haven't been playing that long. The Braves kind of get cast aside, and obviously they've got some really exciting talent. It just seems like they've had trouble keeping some of their young guys on the field for chunks of the season. You know, Albies has missed time. Ronald Acuna has missed time. I think that hurts them.

But it looks like they're kind of pulling away in the NL East and they're a team that really we've seen this every year where they're really good in the regular season and then they don't get it done. So those are kind of two other exciting teams I'm going to add onto the pile. The thing with the race that kind of interests me guys is they've been a team that really like we mentioned, they're really smart. I don't think anybody builds their team around their ballpark better than Tampa Bay.

They develop pitching because Tropicana Field is a pitcher-friendly park. They have very limited foul ground. They don't need these big boppers because they're able to pitch in a dome. They're able to pitch in a stadium that really, if you keep the ball down, if you're able to be a successful pitcher, you're able to pitch in a stadium that really, if you keep the ball down, if you're able to be a successful pitcher,

you're going to do it at Tropicana field. Opposing guys love pitching at Tropicana field. So I do wonder if we have the post season at an alternate site this year in a bubble, how much that could hurt the Rays who don't have like those big boppers in the lineup. Like we talked about, they really not to take anything away from them.

They're a very good team but they're also very much a team that knows how to use their ballpark to their advantage i think that sort of speaks uh to to excitement a little bit it's like you know where are we watching them you know like you know uh like watching the a's in oakland is interesting because um and they should get some mention. I mean, they, you know, Chapman and Olsen are probably the best first base, third base combo in the league. They're young. They hit the ball real hard. They've got Lizardo and, and Puck and, and, and, you know, Liam Hendricks, like they've got some, some people and it's, it's a fun group. And then you see like Chapman running for ever and ever and ever for a foul ball,

and he gets it. Josh Donaldson leaping into the tarp, basically, to get a foul ball there that seemed like it was 500 feet from third base. So that's fun. One thing that occurs to me, though, when you mentioned the Dodgers, like there has to be an element for me, I think when I in excitement in underdog goodness, like, I'm not necessarily like, like yesterday, I had his tweet. I was like, who am I gonna watch today? Oh, yeah, the Padres. And the reason I tweeted that was because I sat

down and sometimes I text, I'm on a group chat with some of my old sleeper in the bus guys. And sometimes I'll text them and be like, you know, Paul Spohr, Jason Collette, like, Hey, what do you guys watch? What's the game to watch right now? Because I'm just sitting down. I got like 15 minutes. What am I supposed to watch? And then the other times I just sit down. I'm like, Oh yeah, let me just put on the Padres. I'm not, I don't feel that way about, I know the Dodgers and Yankees are probably the best teams in baseball, but I'm not necessarily sitting down to watch because they're the best. If I'm watching just a random team, best does not equal most exciting, I think.

Yeah, I think that's fair. I think the Dodgers, it also depends what you really like to watch. The Dodgers tend to have great pitching. So if you really like pitching, you can focus on them. Obviously, they score plenty of runs. They can kind of do everything. But they're like the Yankees, right? You could say the Yankees are one of the most exciting teams to watch.

They're loaded with talent. It's part of what makes them the villain. It's part of what makes us kind of maybe inherently root for a team like the Rays when we're watching them play the Yankees. Maybe that's part of the reason why I think Chapman was intentionally throwing at Brasso, aside from a few other reasons we don't have to get into right now. But the other teams that I think are really interesting this year are the three teams atop the AL Central. I mean, look at Cleveland, look at the White Sox, look at the Twins. We've talked about the Bomba squad being on my high priority list a few weeks ago, but the White Sox have been as improved as we'd hoped.

And Luis Robert is doing everything to show that he's a star. I think that's kind of a must-watch team right now, especially when you think about how good their booth is. If you're ranking play-by-play combinations in booths, Jason Benetti and Steve Stone are as good as anybody else out there right now, too, which also adds to the enjoyment of tuning into a game. At least you've got to break ties with something like that, right? Yeah, I think the personality matters.

Tim Anderson is their Tatis in terms of being boisterous and full of energy. Robert has a bunch of energy. Just this whole team has personality and injury and even Jose Abreu who's the elder statesman on this team and Edwin Encarnacion with the parrot they've got all these little idiosyncrasies and fun things to watch for

and there's an element of is Robert regressing and is Eloy Jimenez progressing is there another level for that will Mazar get it together? There's still questions, right? It's not so much when you watch the Dodgers, you're like, yeah, Cody Bellinger will get it back together. I'm not going to watch this to find out if Cody Bellinger is going to hit two home runs tonight because, yeah, that's just as likely as it was

two weeks ago. I also love watching Golito pitch even with his inconsistent command but even that inconsistent command so i think it's like if you want to do like some sort of uh you know like formula like we were talking about sauce all week on rates and barrels if you want to come up with like a special sauce for for excitement i think it has to do something with like underdog plus personality, uh, plus question marks, you know, like it's not a team that has answered all the questions and you kind of are watching to some extent because you kind of are like, you know, do they, can they do it? Do they have enough? Is the bullpen in San Diego going to be good enough? Do the, are the hitters in Tampa going to be good enough? Are the hitters in Tampa going to be good enough? Is the starting rotation in Chicago going to be good enough?

There's different questions. I think those questions bring us to the table a little bit. Yeah, I think with Cleveland and the White Sox, are the bullpens good enough? The offense is good enough for both of those teams. The starting pitching in Cleveland is fantastic. Will they get those last nine outs they need after Bieber and Carrasco and Plisak and Savalle and McKenzie leave the game?

I think that's where the drama comes in with that team. So you're right. There are a few different ingredients if we are making yet another sauce. We may have to start bottling something and actually selling something here if we're going to keep talking about sauce all the time. But what factors in for you, Britt? Yeah, and and i think the twins you can throw in that category too like they have a good bullpen but not a great bullpen and they were shopping around at the trade deadline they didn't end up doing anything but they could really use like that one ace reliever um and i

think that becomes even more important in the postseason and we call them the bomba squad we know that the power is there um they've obviously gotten exciting players, right? They've got Cruz and, you know, they've got Josh Donaldson, who has been a terrific kind of energy bringer for them. But I think when you look at these teams in the Central, it might come down to those last nine, you know, six outs or so, when you look at these teams. And it seems like you can kind of take a nap,

wake up that final day of the season. And I think it's going to come down to the wire, which is really exciting. I think all three of them have like a 90% chance to make the playoffs. It's something like that. So they're the most exciting division race in baseball right now.

And the Tigers have become a lot more watchable too with the promotion of their young pitching prospects. They got a few guys exceeding expectations offensively too. So instead of being a complete snooze fest, the Tigers have now at least become interesting as well. Mike Clevenger debuted for the Padres. That was Thursday night. The days are really starting to run together now.

And this was the biggest name moved at the trade deadline. We talked about the trade, I think, on Tuesday a little bit. It gives them a frontline guy, and they have a few young starters coming up eventually, Mackenzie Gore, Luis Patino, guys that could leapfrog him. But eventually, you're talking about a rotation that features Chris Paddock, Mike Clevenger, Luis Patino, and Mackenzie Gore. It's going to be one of the best rotations in the National League for a few years if those guys reached their levels as expected. It wasn't an overpowering debut from Clevenger by any stretch. The Padres ended up losing on Thursday night. Two runs, seven hits, six innings, only two strikeouts. But I love how aggressive San Diego was at the deadline. For all the teams you could look at and say they needed a

bullpen piece, they needed a left-handed bat off the bench. They needed to upgrade a corner outfield spot. There's not much left in terms of necessary upgrades in San Diego. I think the one thing people said was, yeah, maybe they're one outfielder short right now because of the Tommy Pham injury, but they pushed all their chips in and it's not just for 2020. I think that's part of what also makes the san diego team so exciting yeah i mean what they trade one of their top 10 prospects in all of this i think it was right so that's that's pretty good what's cool yesterday is that you heard clevenger say like i haven't been this excited since the postseason he's pitching in a regular season game for the san diego padres i mean how crazy would that statement have been a year ago um i like what

i like the fact that he's throwing to Nola. I mean, it's a really cool battery. It's so exciting there right now, and you follow them a little more closely than I do. You could speak more to this, but watching that team, watching them all start to believe. Manny Machado

very quietly has kind of become the guy again. I think he's won now back-to-back NL Player of the Week award. Tatis, obviously, NL Player of the Month. You look at this team, and there aren't very many holes. And probably most dangerous of all is they believe that they can win. They're a young team who now thinks that they can win, and I think that can be pretty powerful as well.

Yeah, and it's funny to see the rehabilitation of Eric Hosmer, you know, just from maybe like the worst contract in baseball, one of the worst contracts in baseball, to a guy who finally found a way to lift the ball. And there's something I said, you know, at the time, defending the contract a little bit was to some extent, you need to spend money before you're good in order to give other free agents the excuse to take your money. Like nobody wants to be the first player on a team to take money. Cause then they might be like,

Oh, you're our only guy and we're not going to get any other free agents. And thanks for signing up. So Hosmer took a little bit of a leap of faith or just took the money but in either way like him going there first allowed Manny Machado to some extent to to to also jump on there and now they're the two team leaders and you know I think they're different guys uh but what's cool about that is that there's like a combined leadership there between them that filters down. And even in that whole Tatis, like I don't think that the manager maybe handled the whole Tatis swinging on 3-0 thing that well in terms of comments and stuff,

but it was kind of amazing when you saw Tatis go back to the dugout you saw him talk to Manny and you saw him talk to Hosmer and Hosmer like was not berating him um but was explaining to him what was going on you know and I thought that was uh an example of Hosmer's leadership that that's something that people say about him when they when they talk about his benefit to a clubhouse. And I don't know that it's worth all the money he got, but it's worth something. And seeing that just in real time with Tatis, you could see how that creates a bond. Also, when you talk about the Rays and the A's, everyone feels like on those teams, I think you're there on borrowed time.

You're going to be there for a year or two and then you're going to be somewhere else. I don't think the Padres feel that way because you can look around the field and be like Myers has been here for a long time. Hosmer has been here for a long time. You know, there are guys here that have been here for a while and have come up through this team and are doing it. So it's not like, you know, if like if you do well, they'll reward you, and they'll try to keep you around. So this is our team. We're coming together on this.

And Clevenger really fits the bill for a Padres pitcher. He just looks like straight out of a craft brewery down in San Diego. He's got the surfboard on top of the car and he stopped for a couple IPAs. But, you know, I really can't also wait for Clevenger versus Arenado because those two guys are more ADHD than anybody I've ever seen. They'll just keep moving. There'll be some sort of dance move, the Arenado-Clevenger. But yeah, there, like, from Cronenworth being a total find, a throw-in in a trade, to Myers and Hosmer being back good again, to Grisham where they totally ripped that trade apart.

The Luis Arias trade, like, they won that one handily with Davies and Grisham. And even Profar, who looked, like, completely lost and can't play second base anymore, is being a useful part right now. So it's just fun. And I think when Morohan and Patino really are solidified as parts of that bullpen, they're going to answer those last questions about it. And that's what I kind of watch for. It's really not hard to imagine that some of those young guys that are currently in the pen, It's really not hard to imagine that some of those young guys that are currently in the pen, they could have the K-Rod postseason of, wow, is that almost 20 years ago now?

But they have that kind of firepower that could rise to the occasion and become part of October lore. They absolutely could do that. It is interesting having Hosmer and Machado because they do seem very different, but you need to be able to reach everybody in the clubhouse. So if you have two leaders that combined are capable of connecting with just about anybody else in the room, that does go a long way. And I have calmed down about Jace Tingler and how he handled the situation with Tatis swinging on 3-0. He's a first-time manager. If you're a first-time anything, you're going to screw up. You're going to make some mistakes in the grand scheme of things. That's a pretty small mistake that Tingler made, and I think they were able to kind of work through that.

We're not sweating chemistry. We're not worried about if Tatis is happy. It's very obvious that things are good in San Diego right now. Dugout Mugs is a company that was started in a college baseball dugout, hence the name Dugout Mugs. They take the barrel of a baseball bat and turn it into a 12-ounce mug. Dugout Mugs are licensed by Major League Baseball, so you can have your favorite team logo laser engraved onto a Birchwood baseball bat barrel mug. But they're selling a lot of Padres mugs right now.

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coming out of the weekend. They will resume play against the aforementioned Padres on Friday night. I think this is interesting because, to me, this is a sign, and we saw this, I think, with the Mets. We've seen it with, I believe, the Reds, too. We've had a few teams with the possibility of cases where they've handled situations a bit differently. Compared to when this season started, compared to the outbreak situation with the Marlins and the subsequent outbreak with the Cardinals,

Figured some things out with contact tracing and how to optimally protect everybody, but also resume play as quickly as they safely can. Britt, do you think it's fair to say that Major League Baseball is now doing a good job navigating playing its games this way in the pandemic? I do. And I didn't think a few weeks ago, guys, that we would ever get here. And I feel like now there's like almost nothing to really complain about. Their test results are better. They're much quicker. A lot of players complained early on about not getting those test results in time. Even when a team, and you hear about a positive test now,

I don't know about you guys, but you're not like, oh, God, there goes the whole league. I think the whole tenor of it all has really changed. The perception has changed, and that's important as well. So, you know, Rob Manfred early on saying, like, we're not shutting this thing down, like this train's going to keep rolling, I think probably helped. And as you kind of said earlier, Derek, I mean, he's maybe not as terrible at his job as everyone else likes to think he is. But I do commend MLB for what they've done and the way they continue to stay on this. I think it's always going to be omnipresent. That threat's always

going to be hovering as it is in all of us in our lives as COVID continues. But it just doesn't seem like the huge issue and the crisis that it was with the Marlins or the Cardinals. Yeah. One thing that's interesting to me too, is like, what, how much do you think is on the players? Like, do you think that there was a real change in player behavior before and

after the Cardinals thing? And then I don't even know how much to blame the players because there's all this stuff that came out for the earlier stuff. Cause there's all this stuff that like, Oh, the Marlins were partying or blah, blah, blah.

And, and then there was pushback where it was like, no, like, a couple guys went to a house party, but then we saw with, like, Clevenger-Plesak, house party, really big no-no, like, we shouldn't be doing that, and, like, I wonder how much player behavior has changed. I don't have a great sense of that, I don't know if you do, Britt, but, like, you know, do you think that, you know, 40% or 30% of this know if you do, Britt, but do you think that 40% or 30% of this has to do with the players

being like, okay, we have to kind of personal bubble this, even if we're not going to be physically in a bubble like the NBA. We have to kind of treat it that way that we have to be super, super careful so that our team doesn't get shut down. I think

there was no scarier incident to the players than Clevenger police hack. I think the Marlins was kind of like, whatever the Cardinals like, Oh, well, I think seeing for the players, seeing those guys get sent down, seeing how it changed their career, seeing how, you know, it really became such a big story with the guys that I talked to. And obviously it's not the same, right? I don't get nearly as much access as I do in normal years.

But I think that really showed players like, hey, you break the rules. We don't care who you are. You're done. You're going somewhere else. Like, that's it. So to me, that probably scared that and them changing the protocols, which they did. They made them more stringent in season.

But those to me are the two biggest incidents. And I agree with you. And I don't think it was like the players all of a sudden going crazy but i think now guys are very aware of following the rules i would be surprised if they didn't have close to 100 compliance because of what happened in cleveland because um of the way those two guys were were really kind of publicly shamed over breaking the rules. Yeah, it made me feel a little bit sad for them, actually. I mean, I didn't necessarily agree with Police X non-apology or whatever that thing was. But I understood it, like, emotionally.

You know, like, I mean, to him, he's like, I, you know, i saw a couple friends and now everyone hates me um you know i i felt bad for him i don't know that i that i want to say that he didn't do anything wrong or i want to excuse the behavior but you know i i always and maybe this is because i'm german but like when everyone agrees and is publicly shaming someone, I start feeling really uncomfortable. So I want to say that I feel bad for Plesak and Clevenger. And if there was a good that came out of it, that we're having fewer tests and that teams are being able to play, I'm happy for that. But I'm not sure we had to just ruin Plesak. I feel like this is going

to hang over his head for the rest of his career i feel a little bad about that yeah it might in some instances it might be the first thing people think of i mean there are other things that are going to happen between now and the end of 2020 though that will potentially overshadow that i mean if cleveland wins a world series it lost. If we've learned anything from 2020. Right. I mean, just thinking about how this conversation started, we three weeks ago, four weeks ago, a positive test on Monday morning made us think that the season would

be over by Friday. We've come a long way in our understanding of how the league and the game is impacted by a positive test. And I think we're still going to continue to learn more in the weeks ahead. I've tried to make assumptions about football season. And the more I think about it, the realize I still don't really know. I have no idea if football

season is going to work or if it's going to be a total disaster. But we are all learning inside the game, outside the game. I think back to how I used to go to the grocery store when the pandemic started. It was automatic shower afterwards. Now, it's a good hand washing, but I save the shower until a normal time. I don't have to immediately just spend 20 minutes sterilizing. I washed all the clothes I was wearing. Right. Oh, yeah.

Immediately. Stripped naked. Yeah. I would just walk up to the washing machine, throw all the clothes I was wearing. Right. Oh, yeah. Immediately. Stripped naked. Yeah. I would just walk up to the washing machine, throw all the clothes in it, immediately go to take a shower, and then put the groceries away. And it was like, was that necessary? We wiped the groceries down with bleach wipes. You did?

Okay. I never got that crazy. I wondered if people- I didn't do that. Yeah. I never got that crazy because I wasn't eating the boxes. So in my opinion, how would I – Yes, good point.

Right? Yeah, what are people doing? Why would you Clorox wipe your food? That to me was one step too far. I'm a very clean person pre-pandemic too. Well, I wasn't Clorox wiping the broccoli. But the boxes of crackers and stuff, I wasn't like Clorox wiping the broccoli. But like the boxes of crackers and stuff, I just thought

worst case scenario, if COVID is on there, I'm not eating the box. And it dies pretty quickly on cardboard. Isn't that another thing that we thought could live forever and actually it's not the case? A package would come in the mail and you'd

get a stick and push it down the hallway to nudge it into the door. Three days later, you'd finally feel safe opening it with gloves on. Absolute insanity. Why am I this way? One more topic. One more topic to get to. Evan Drellick wrote a piece about Rob Manfred for The Athletic earlier this week. a piece about Rob Manfred for The Athletic earlier this week. Most of the time, when Rob Manfred's name comes up, we do tend to make a joke about him. We don't necessarily make fun of him,

but I think it's pretty clear when you listen to most people who follow baseball or cover baseball, most people don't really seem to like Rob Manfred. I think you could separate that from the idea that he's doing a good or a bad job. Someone can be just miserable to deal with and not personable at all, but actually be really effective at their job. My Algebra 2 teacher had maybe a worse personality than Rob Manfred,

but she was a phenomenal Algebra 2 teacher. I hope she's not listening. Yeah, well, it's a small world, I guess. But look, she was very by the book. That's really what it was, it wasn't a personality thing. And we just thought like, oh, why is she so tough on us all the time?

This is ridiculous. And you found out later, you're like, actually, she was a personality thing. And we just thought, like, oh, why is she so tough on us all the time? This is ridiculous. And you found out later, like, actually, she was a great teacher. And I'm not saying Rob Manfred is a great commissioner. I'm not even close to that. But I think we do have to say, okay, it's been five years now that he's been in the job. There are things he's done that have bothered people along the way. But sometimes when change happens in baseball, people complain about it, and then they see it play out,

and they go, oh, actually, that is better. It's kind of in our nature as baseball fans and baseball writers to be extremely critical of the decision when it comes from the top. And maybe we're conditioned from years of Bud Selig running the game too, right? But the same sort of principle applies. I don't think you have to like the person at all to believe that they do at least an adequate job, if not a good one.

So after you read Evan's piece, did you feel a little differently about the commissioner, Britt? Gosh, maybe a little. I honestly, I mean, I don't really agree with the changes that he's made. So I have a hard time saying that, like, yes, he's done stuff. But I don't really like the way the game is going towards this kind of homogenous,

everyone has to be the same with minor league teams. And some of those initiatives, to me, it seems like he's working for the owners. And by that regard, he's making them happy, right? But does that mean he's doing a good job? I think that's kind of debatable. It's very gray area. He's doing a good job to the people that he's serving. But is he doing a good job to baseball fans?

That's where I'm still kind of conflicted. What has he actually tangibly done that you guys can say, like, you know what? He made this game a lot better. I don't have anything. Do you guys? I would say that I'm actually a fan of his willingness to tinker. And I know that that goes against him when people say he doesn't love the game. He's trying to change the game. But my point is this, like, baseball is for us, is for fans. We can change it. If we think that there's not enough balls in play, we can change it. We can change the rules. We can lower the mound. We can move the mound back.

We've done things like that before, and we should think that they are possible things to do. And that's what I think, the one thing that I like about Manfred is he seems willing to change it, you know? And I think that's great. I think he's a little bit too obsessed with time, how long the game is going to go. And it's kind of funny to me that he's made all these changes to kind of deal with how, how, how long the game is. And yet the game is exactly as long as when he started doing it. So there's, he's had no effect on time of game, except for these like seven inning games, if you want to count them, I guess. But generally, like, I think probably he does love baseball.

I think maybe what I got from that, like, almost everybody that works in baseball loves baseball. Like, because there is an element to baseball that just kind of beats you down. There's just so many games. It goes on forever. There's just so, there's so many games. It goes on forever. There's less of an off season than almost any sport. You're writing till December. As a writer, you're writing till December. You get like two weeks off and you're starting to write previews, you know, before pitchers and catchers report February 1 or whatever it is. Ridiculous, you know, date. And so, you know, there's so many things that can beat you down. If you look at old, like, I don't, old, yes, old beat writers.

If you look at people who've been around forever, a lot of them are cynical. And you can understand it. So, but what keeps them going? They do actually love baseball. They do love baseball. Everybody who works in baseball loves baseball because there are a lot of things that would keep you out of it if you didn't. So I kind of believe after that, that Manfred loves baseball. I believe that he is an effective negotiator and a good lawyer. And I believe that he's willing to tinker the game. Those are all positives for me across the board. I think that whether or not he's been effective is another question.

Yes, income is up for the owners, but attendance is down, and attendance being down could have a long-term effect that's not good for baseball. And he hasn't quite made the changes he wants to within the game. So I would say his effectiveness is another question. Yeah, it's almost hard to tell in the moment how effective he's going to be. He'll almost have to be graded and judged as a commissioner after the next commissioner takes over, because then we'll have a better feel for how much the changes he's made along the way have actually had lasting changes on the game. But I think the biggest thing I get hung up on is that

I see Adam Silver and how he is the face of the NBA. And I'm sure Adam Silver's commissioner's office has people who are more like Rob Manfred than anybody would want to admit. But Silver politically does give the fans

someone that they can look at and go, hey, this guy gets it. He is listening to the player like he's a better he's a better mediator like even though he's not necessarily like that's he works for the owners the same same as the true in any major sport right the commissioner works for the owners he just does a better job putting up that public front and i think i'm not saying adam silver's uh disingenuous or anything like that either, but I just think that's the comparison. If you're comparing Adam Silver to Rob Manfred,

you're always going to be disappointed in Rob Manfred. There's just a difference in personality there that you're probably not going to bridge at any point, especially at Manfred's current age. People aren't going to change that much that late in life. We've got a long weekend coming up. So question for you before we go. Britt, what are you looking forward to?

Well, I'm taking a long weekend, so I'm looking forward to that. Also baseball. I think what's kind of sad to me is there's no September call-ups. So usually like around now, you're excited. All the new guys, the influx, the prospects, not really the case. So I'm looking forward to see how everything

shakes out. Watching the Nationals who are in last place, not super fun to watch. I'll definitely be flipping around this weekend if I can because I'm technically not working. I'll be watching games that I enjoy more than games that I have to watch.

How about you, Eno? I'm going to grill. I'm going to grill? I'm going to grill. Nice. I'm going to grill. I'm going to grill and drink beer and baseball will be on. I don't know. It'll be more of a sort of weekend, oh, who hit a homer? Rather than sort of, oh,

I think a curveball's coming. I don't think I don't know if I'll be at the edge of my seat for, you know, strategy reasons, but I will have baseball on a weekend and it'll feel glorious. Might sneak in some,

some basketball. Cause it's getting now to the later rounds. Like, you know, it's, it's been interesting to watch over there. I think one thing that's instructive for basketball for baseball is that home field advantage is almost totally gone.

Yeah. And it was a bigger deal in basketball in basketball baseball has always had one of the lower smaller home field advantages but uh watching that happen in basketball makes me think that there will be i think brit's right in the in the postseason there will be surprises because with no home field advantage and maybe even being in a bubble like that uh not even having your home park advantage, I think that we'll be surprised by some team that kind of runs the gamut there. Yeah, I think that's very likely given what we're learning from the NBA in the bubble. I'm excited to watch the Bucs. They're in some trouble in that series against the Heat, down 2-0 already. On the baseball side, Padres A's aside from the Brewers going into Cleveland. I like watching Cleveland's pitching especially. It's kind of an important series from the Brewers going into Cleveland. I like watching Cleveland's pitching especially.

It's kind of an important series. The Brewers need to start winning some games to actually stay in the playoff race. They're kind of teetering on the brink right now. I'm definitely going to reverse sear a huge ribeye this weekend too. That is absolutely going to happen. It's big steak time. What's a reverse sear? You slow cook it in the oven at about 120 degrees.

If you get the big Flintstone-sized steak, it takes a while. It takes like 75 minutes. And then for about 60 seconds, you sear it in a cast iron skillet to get that nice crust on it. It's the best way to make a steak. So I highly recommend it. Hit me up on Twitter for your tips. You might have convinced me. I was going to go try tip, but... Try that.

Do both. Do both. Do both if you can do both. You can only do one. Do the reverse here. If you're not already subscribed... No, I mean on different days. Oh, come on.

Do it on the same day. Same day. That'd be so much meat. Meat for breakfast, meat for lunch, meat for dinner. It's okay. Do a Meatless Monday to offset it or something, or Meatless Monday and Tuesday, but you know, find balance. If you're enjoying the show on a platform that allows you to rate and review it,

please take a moment to do that. We'd greatly appreciate it. If you don't already have a subscription to the athletic and get one at 40% off at the athletic.com slash rates and barrels that look at you. Brits articles, he knows articles, all the baseball coverage, league wide team by team.

And on the fantasy side as well, hit us up via email rates in barrels atrels at theathletic.com. That is going to wrap things up for this episode of Rates and Barrels. Have an enjoyable holiday weekend. Be safe. We are back with you on Tuesday. Thanks for listening. ...

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