Real Kyper & Bourne - State of the League with Gary Bettman

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne are joined by NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman (0:32) to chat about when the players' association and the league will start negotiating a new CBA, parity amongst the teams, tax advantages, the 4 Nations Face-Off tournament, Alexander Ovechkin's record chase, the evolution outdoor NHL games and league expansion. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee get into the criticisms of Kyle Dubas's track record in his first seasons as Pittsburgh Penguins' general manager and Connor McDavid's unpenalized elbow.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right. It's the national edition of the real Kipper and born show. We are live on sports at six 15 Vancouver sports at nine 60 in Calgary. This hour of Real Kipper inborn brought to you by Bet 365, Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. As we teed up earlier in the show, Commissioner Gary Bettman of the National Hockey League set to join us. Commissioner, how are you? It's been a while.

How are things? Things are great. It's been a while. Are things? Things are great. It's been too long. It's fun to be in the new year as we get to the second half of the season. So it's all good. And I guess it's all good to be with you too. Well, great. I know you've been busy lately, especially on on podcasts. Now I can I give a shout out to the nhl.com and This new podcast never offside with Julie Petrie and Cat to Foley now. I haven't you were their first guests and

I I haven't had a chance to hear it But I assume it's a lot like being with my wife where you just sat back and listened to ways that you can improve as a person. Oh boy, that's very sexist of you. I'm not touching that with a book. They were great and it was an engaging conversation. They were very well prepared and I really enjoyed the experience. And when you go home, you're in trouble with your wife.

As far as being truly busy here you've gone on record with a negotiation with the NHLPA on a new CBA you'd like that thing signed sealed and delivered by the Stanley Cup final. We assume that you guys are talking and the process has started officially? No we haven't started yet. The plan was to start. Marty Walsh told me probably beginning of February he wants to get his ducks in the row with the players, make sure he has all the input that they want to give him. But we talk on a regular basis anyway, so I'm not anticipating any issues, I believe,

and I hope that this will go smoothly and it won't be a distraction to anybody and that we can get it done a year in advance. That's my wish, and I believe it's Marty's as well. I've been a part either as a player or as a broadcaster commissioner in terms of You know the the swing from cap to no cap But then we we got to a place of a 50-50 revenue split

I assume you know going back to my wife She often tells me that's the most fairest thing in this world 50-50 So there there isn't really any movement on that. I assume then it's working around the edges? Well, two things. One, it's never a good practice to negotiate publicly and it's never a good practice to negotiate in an anticipatory way publicly.

And two, I think it's fair to say, and I'm on record as saying, I think the system we have has worked very well. We've seen the game grow dramatically. And so I'm anticipating a very constructive dialogue where we discuss the things that we think are important, but I'm not sure that either of us are focused on fundamental issues. Gary, I want to get your thoughts on the state of the game from a sense of the pandemic led to a flat salary cap and I would say more parity. You've talked in the past, I believe about encouraging parity, liking parity, and I don't

know that we've ever seen parity like the league has right now. There doesn't seem to be any teams that are falling out or missing playoffs. We're halfway through, and at the same time, maybe no super teams. How do you feel about where the game's at in that way? I think competitive balance is extraordinarily important. I think the players have more fun if they know no matter what team they're on they've got a shot to make the playoffs that they're in the hunt through most of the regular season, I think it's

most important for the fans to feel engaged that no matter who you root for you believe your team has a shot and if you make the playoffs anything can happen which is what we've seen. So from a competitive competitive standpoint I think we have probably the best system in all professional sports and it's enabled the game to be more exciting more entertaining more skillful from a player standpoint and it's watched the game grow dramatically both in terms of people engaged with the game and in terms of revenues.

And revenues, Commissioner, closing in on $7 billion, which is great for everybody. But at a certain point, is it healthy enough for 32 teams to continue to push a floor up? I know last year you visited Winnipeg, and it was a scenario where you met with some corporate people to kind of remind everybody of the support that's needed today. How has that gone in the last little while for you?

Are you seeing what you wanted to see, what you tried to accomplish with that visit? Well, first of all, I don't know that a team like Winnipeg could compete if we didn't have the system that we have. I think Mark Chipman, the managing owner of Winnipeg, would be the first to tell you that. I don't believe that he would have purchased the team and put them back in Winnipeg without the system we have. I think their, their attendance issue is getting better. Attendance is up and it has nothing to do with the competitive balance. If anything, competitive balance helps them.

I think it's more, they started selling tickets in a certain way when the team came back and the business community really wasn't as engaged as perhaps it should have been from the outset, because they didn't need to. I mean, I think on an individual basis, all individuals, I think they sell out like in 12 minutes online on a season ticket basis for the entire season. So in the final analysis, you'll see a particular issue in a particular place, but the system, which by the way, includes revenue sharing, so that clubs that need some additional assistance to get to the cap or close to the cap is there. You know, I'm in a position where I think if you look at our 32 clubs, the strength

of our clubs, the strength of our clubs, the strength of ownership has never been better. You know, I think as we wrap up sort of the business end of asking you some questions here, one thing that our guests, or our listeners would want me to ask as Canadian listeners is could you ever see a world where the salary cap was pre-taxed,

where state taxes didn't matter or, oh no, okay, you don't like it. Well, no, no, I thought that it don't like it. If you look, since the cap came into effect, the number of Stanley cups won in Los Angeles in California, Anaheim and Los Angeles, which has about as high a tax rate as anywhere in Canada, is the same number as been one in Florida. Okay, I don't believe that it is the issue that some make it out to be.

I don't believe that that's the deciding factor in terms of where players wanna go. We're not hearing from the players that it's an issue. And so, and when you look at it, you can't just look at taxes. You got to look at the cost of living, the cost of housing. What's a desirable place to live in? And the fact that we have a salary cap means that one team, no matter what jurisdiction they're in,

or another can't scoop up all of the best players and get the best economic deal. So, and, but, you know, it's something we look at to make sure that there's a fundamental or substantive basis to what I'm saying. And based on the preliminary analysis we've done, I believe what I'm saying is correct. But it's a great question.

You're watching and listening to the Commissioner of the National Hockey League, Gary Betman. Just one more on the Canadian dollar. Again, similar to state, it's just out of your hands, nothing you can do, but how does it affect, does it move the needle? No, I don't think that the Canadian dollar, based on the fact that we do everything in US dollars

and we revenue share in US.S. dollars is an issue. I believe the Canadian clubs are able to compete as well as any of the U.S. clubs, including U.S. clubs in high tax jurisdictions and in low tax jurisdictions. So, you know, I think I know, yes, I know that a Canadian club hasn't won the cup in a long time, but I don't think that's the way you judge this. You really have to look at the full body of work over an entire season and what actually happens in the playoffs. I think the fact that the game is so competitive is the biggest fact to hear more than anything

else. It's hard. Listen, Nick, you won a cup in the pre-cap era and you know how hard that is. And so, you know, this is the hardest trophy to win in all the sports. So one of the things that you do like is when everyone is in it and everyone has a chance to win.

When Kepra won the cup, I think there were six teams in the league. There might have been a few more. My math net may not be bang on. Do you think that you would ever consider this expanded playoffs? I know you've been asked it before, but 32 teams, a lot of hockey teams, get more revenue,

more playoff games, more teams in it? I think it would diminish the value of the playoffs. I think it would diminish the value of the playoffs. I think it would diminish the value of the regular season. Our regular season is incredibly meaningful. Two points in October or November can be the difference between a team making the playoffs and not. And I think that's what you want from a regular season.

I don't think we need to gimmick up either the regular season or the playoffs. And our first round because the matchups are so good and the competition is so good. Our first round may be the best thing there is in playoffs among the major sports. So I believe that I know when we discuss this with the general managers while some of them would like it to be easier to get into the playoffs having a one or two or three game series in our sport were a hot go tend to can knock you off of

what had been a great season. I think that's a gimmick I think what we have is true to the authenticity of our game by the way speaking of the Stanley Cup a good piece of trivia. I was obviously in the building when Nick won the Cup and when the Islanders, I think it was their second cup, which they won at home against Minnesota. I was in the building, Justin, when your dad won it and I was there as a fan thinking about how

it was the most remarkable championship presentation I'd ever seen. Because in those days, none of the other sports did the presentations in front of the fans, and the NHL was the only one doing it, and I was completely blown away. The fact that I would then subsequently, down the road, be the one presenting the cup, you know, had I thought that at the time,

they probably would have institutionalized me. That's cool. I think I was in the building, but I was in my mom's tummy at the time, Gary, sorry. Commissioner, I gotta ask you about the build-up to the Four Nations Tournament. How's it going from your side, the build-up? And a two-part question is also the decision to stay out

of your two biggest markets in North America, Toronto and New York City, as we know it's now Montreal and Boston. We don't do everything in our biggest markets. We like to move things around. Montreal is a great hockey market, obviously. It's a great international city. Boston has great fans.

I was actually there last night at a gala for their foundation. We think these are two great places to be. And we're thrilled to be going there. And the fan response in terms of ticket sales has been terrific So now we you know, we look for the best opportunities to make it a big event and I think This event on the stages that those two cities present is going to be a huge success Most importantly, I hear from the players how thrilled they are about it and I hear from the players whose countries aren't yet represented how thrilled they're not. So yeah well that's actually interesting and so this is kind of related to that Russia is not in it

as we know but Russia's not in a lot of stuff right now they're not in the Olympics the World Juniors they're not in several things right now we have a really cool thing going on in our sport where Ovechkin got the great chase he's about to break one of our sports greatest records. Is it at all complicated by that he is Russian? No, it's not what that he may break the record. Yeah that he's you know, we're gonna be featuring We're a very open and diverse league Welcoming league he plays for the Washington Capitals as far as we're concerned he's not playing for

Russia and the fact that he may approach and break a record that nobody thought could ever be done is a testament to to him in the capitals and that's what it's all about and we're excited for the great a chase and the great one and I probably when he's got four or five games to go we'll start following around with him and the coverage will increase as he gets closer and closer I think this is a great event for sports not just hockey or the NHL and as just

to mention no Russia no Chechen no Germany the Swiss team How optimistic are you that the next World Cup could be an eight nations? Tournament I believe the World Cup will have broader representation Whether it's a 12 teams whether or not there's a qualification round Those are things that have yet to be worked out. We we have no control over the way the the athletic community is treating Russia. I mean, those are decisions that are being made in the first instance by the IOC, the International Olympic Committee

and the International Ice Hockey Federation. And it's not just in our sport. I mean, it's throughout. It'll be interesting to see what the IOC decides to do with the next Olympics. But it's complicated too, because there are other countries that will be less than happy, I am told, that if Russia does participate. Worldwide politics on an international level, that's complicated stuff. And we don't get to make those decisions for those organizations.

Yeah, fair enough. So we've been talking about some of the great events the NHL does put on. You just wrapped up another winter classic. The evolution of outdoor games for the NHL. I guess I want to get your perspective on how you look at it from how you viewed outdoor games when they started to where they're at now and where they're going. The for us, the uniqueness of what we can do with a regular season game and the response that it has gotten from the fans and from players who participate has been phenomenal.

Right. If you've never been to one and you've one all 42 on tv, you tune i decorate the stadium and opening, which is always different. But if you've feel what's going on in t the energy, the excitemen together in larger number than we typically play in. It is truly special and

it doesn't get old and I've been at all of them and everyone feels special and unique and our goal is each time to build on what we've done before to see if we can take it to the next level, you know when we started the ice, you know we learned a lot about making ice in these temporary situations and the ice has gotten so good that the players say it may be the best ice they plant all season and so we're constantly looking to engage fans and make

it special for them and for the players and that's what will continue to do and we're not adverse to trying things that A are unique and innovative. And even in the two we just announced for next season, questioning whether or not people think we're nuts, but we wouldn't be attempting the two games in Florida if we didn't think we could do it and do it in a great way. How far are we from an international outdoor game?

Great question. It's something we talk about. And at some point we may get to that type of event. We're not there yet. I'm not holding anything back. No announcements are imminent, but it is something that we talk about. One more for me, just to expansion.

And I'm sure if you look over your long career of being a commissioner, man, there was a break point where you didn't have to go knock on doors anymore. And it must be a full-time job just having cities or states or countries call you up and say I want a team? You know, it's not full-time but it's a fun part of the job. It feels much better than it did you know 30 years ago when franchises weren't as strong. The great thing is as I mentioned before franchises have never been stronger, our

ownership has never been stronger. And we get lots of expressions of interest. And what I say is we don't have expansion. Something teed up is we're gonna do an expansion process, put your applications in by X date. Four criteria you look at. First and foremost, ownership, building, market, and does it make the league stronger?

And among the people and groups and places we talk to, if somebody can check all four boxes and make a compelling case, we'll tell them to come in and talk to us. We'll listen, we'll evaluate, and if I think it makes sense, I'll take it to the owners. But we're not there yet. But yes, conversations have gone on and continue to go on,

but we're not at the stage where we're ready to embrace one of these opportunities. Doesn't mean we won't be at some point, but we're not right now. I lived in Chandler, Tempe for a few years. There's some land out there, Gary. Yeah, well, listen, Arizona was a great market. And over time, we had some ownership issues. And when we didn't have ownership issues, we had building issues.

But we were sorry. We're thrilled to be in Utah. We were sorry to leave Arizona and the fans there. And I know the players like living there, but it was clear that even under the best case, we were going to be at Arizona State in a college ring for at least five years, and that was unacceptable. And if, in fact, there's a building alternative that emerges that would work at the professional level for us and somebody's interested in owning a team there again,

we'll have the conversation. But until there's a building situation that makes sense, there's nothing to talk about there. Okay, just quick follow-up on Utah. Last week, I brought my daughter a stuffed stuffed animal home and she named it Bumble and drew a picture of it. And I just want to know why we can't get a name and a jersey for Utah. We're working on it.

We had done the Utah transaction so quickly. I mean, it was a unique transaction. Nobody's ever done anything like that. The timeframe was unbelievable. And beyond the logistics of making the deal and papering it and arranging what had to be sold to be sold either from the league or from the Coyotes, what the Smiths did, Ryan and Ashley Smith and their organization putting everything in place

that they did over a couple of months in the summer. Off the charts, incredible. The players, I'm told, and I was there opening night, love being there, they're feeling well treated, they love Salt Lake City. Perfect situation, but there were some things we just couldn't do in that timeframe, and picking a name that you can trademark legally without infringing somebody else isn't

the easiest thing to do and it takes time and designing uniforms and logos takes time. So we had to keep it simple. And it's okay. For the time being. All right. We can live with it. Okay, one more for me just in terms of especially here at Sportsnet Rogers, you're shopping for a new national Contract how's that going is streaming the way to go here? How close are you doubling up your five billion dollars last time? Easy go back it goes back to a question you asked and I answered before

I don't negotiate publicly. We're not shopping. We're in an exclusive negotiating period with Rogers. We have meetings set up and we're going to respect the process. Rogers has been a terrific partner. What some people tend to forget and particularly on the landscape throughout North America of media, our original deal with Rogers, which is now 11 years old, contemplated streaming as part of that package,

and they do stream certain packages, the out-of-market packages. So we're thrilled with the partnership. Obviously, we think we're a very valuable property, particularly in Canada. And I'm hopeful that we have constructive discussions with our existing partner because they've been a good partner. Is there a small chance I can get you to call my wife and tell her I was just joking and that she completes me?

But you've just told her. I don't have to. I assume she listens to you. Always fun, Commissioner. Thanks for joining us. Thanks so much for your time. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me, guys.

And thanks for all you do covering the game. All right. And we appreciate it. All right, Commissioner Gary Bannon. I'm in trouble. You're dead. You're dead. Called me sexist. I'm cooked. I thought're dead. You're dead. He called me sexist. I'm cooked. I thought it was just like a funny joke.

He's just like right bang, right out. He hit me right between the eyes. He did catch you with a catch you with a right hook. It's the Mike Tyson line. Everyone has a play until they get punched in the mouth. Good questions, boys. Good questions. He was great.

You weren't quite Ron McClain. I didn't think the old school Ron McClan where it was just like they're punching each other in the face for Ten minutes, but it was good though. I'm stuck there good some stuff there yet. It's fascinating You know, I just on you know, the whole Rogers thing it has been the relationship there has been good with everyone which is really cool and Presumably that I guess now is the time right is that the the open window for discussion closing closing its stream as well closing in on the seven billion dollars of revenue and when I first started I don't even think we had the B word yeah so I listen you can compare it all you

want to the NFL the NFL is just it's another planet Okay, it's not if you compare yourself to that. You're never gonna be satisfied. Yeah, it's a different animal 32 teams I didn't think I'd live to see 32 teams so you guys were talking about the expansion stuff and you didn't get to it, but I Don't think there's enough Like hockey players for two more teams. Well, you know, we actually talked about asking that. It's like, is there enough hockey players?

First of all, he doesn't care. He doesn't care. He doesn't care what it looks like. It's like, you want to stroke a check. You want to get into the big boys club. I'll take your billions. Stroke it. You know, to sort of refine that thought a little bit,

I think when there's lesser players in the league, mistakes get made and the elite players look great, and that helps. I think if I ran a league, I would like my start a little bit. That's a good point, actually. Do you want to know how good our league would look every night if we were down to like 2014? Oh my God.

I mean, it'd be, you know... A bunch of jobs gone. Just explosion of bodies. I feel like it would be too much. I was part of the PA for a long time and like it's not their job to go out there and create more jobs. It's not it's to protect your rights and it's not about like if you have a job just because it's a watered down 32 team league,

that's not good enough for me. And I don't think that's the PA's job is to protect someone just so they can go to work every day. It's to protect your rights. That's their job. So if it came down to 24 teams, I'd be for it. Yeah, I mean, that's just never gonna happen. It's not gonna happen because there's too much value.

There's too much money to be made. And people, people love it. So it's growing. I get all of that. But there are times when it looks like it watered down product. For sure. Do you think there's a chance that the next CBA could include like with the NHL,

would the players say, hey, expansion fees gotta count towards hockey related revenue? Absolutely. It will never happen. Okay. It will never happen. But what they can do is say, okay, we'll give you a hundred million dollars here.

Yes. Right? But it's it's not is your expansion bonus It's we'll dress it up any way you want. You guys have done a nice job for us. We're up to 32 We're getting to bill a franchise. We just got four billion dollars if you go to 34, right? 34 so here's here's a hundred bill Go have a night out on us Sorry wait, I will say way too many hockey teams Perspective along let alone the players to play the games. It gets impossible to follow the league There's too many teams and it's like oh you don't know who that guy is and it's like who does no No, you know like I do this for a living. spend all day consuming hockey and some days I'm like any joke who's Phil?

Who's in that tonight? Yeah, they any shell does a job with those commercials now, right and the latest one The only one I recognize is Marchand at the end tipping commercial Awesome commercial great commercial. I just cannot put a face to anybody's team It's Ottenger its way man. It's when I want you like three or four times five times. I can pick up on it Yeah, but you don't see these faces. It's one of my favorite games to play in the dressing room walk-ins from the bus It's also hard because the players are visor and whatever but in the walk-ins I play like, okay Who's that and I gotta have a 60% hit rate? It's my job, you know? Because there's too many. Well, that's kinda where I'm going.

You go to 34, 36, and it's like falling college football. It's like, I don't know. Yeah, it's a lot of teams. Who plays for who now, you know? It's a lot of teams, boys. But, I don't know. Where would they go next to? Phoenix.

Back to Tampa Bay. I think Arizona's the next place. I keep hearing Atlanta. Oh my God. Atlanta, Arizona. That'll make hockey fans so happy. A building, a new neighborhood, a new building. Is the next place I keep here in Atlanta. Oh my Atlanta, Arizona A new neighborhood a new building. Yeah, great. That'll do it. I don't know third time the charm right baby in London Quebec City, Kansas City, what about Canada City? new market

Canada they just I mean, let's try to hold on to all of them. So what we have now fair enough. Okay. Yeah, all good a Couple reads for you. Let's start with the four nations Here we go. Let me read this right because we just had the commissioner on it. You could be still listening I don't know It's time to get ready for the ultimate international showdown the NHL's four nations face off from February 12th to 20th Canada Finland Sweden and the USA will face off in Montreal and Boston as the NHL's best players represent their country on the world stage.

Roger's a proud partner and fan of Canada's team, and they've got a special treat for you. Through their Beyond the Seat program, Roger's is giving you a chance to win a VIP trip to Four Nations Face-Off game. That's right, four lucky winners will score a pair of tickets plus travel and accommodations, with a new winner selected every week until February 7th.

Want in? Head to rogers.com slash four nations and enter for your chance to win. And don't forget fans across Canada can watch every game of the four nations face off exclusively on sportsnet and sportsnet plus. Surprise is not in Toronto? No based on- Because you brought that up. Not based on 2016.

I think it kind of scared them off a little bit. Yeah. I guess it wasn't the response they were hoping for. It wasn't the response. There wasn't that must-have ticket. It wasn't... Is there too many other things to do? I don't know.

I can't put a pulse on it in terms of... Having two made-up teams kind of solid it before ever starting I think so this could be different I think you're right it brought down a little bit of the credibility having team Europe and young guns in it. Yep Yeah, that's a very much like an exhibition than a best-unbest Before the year started like it was that it was in the like September I think right it was before the season actually started. So now in the middle of season, I think it could be really good Anyways game time game game time presented by bet three six five visit the app latest odds and find out why it's ever ordinary

I bet three six five is be 19 plus Ontario only please play responsibly. So Leafs tonight As I pull this up. Sorry, I was just the last thing I had open on my Bet 365 was what all the favorites this weekend and the NFL parlayed would pay. It's just not nearly enough No, it's like plus 220 or something. It's like not the number I was looking for. I The Leafs tonight are underdogs on home ice against the New Jersey Devils Plus 110 on the money line Devils are minus 130 coming in here some value probably on the Toronto Maple Leafs looking for a win I'm not going

to tell you to bet it because okay back down to Varus but definitely a desperate team looking for a win looking for a knock it boot off the ice for the third straight game a couple other good ones tonight later on two excellent hockey games Edmonton on on the second half of back-to-back in Colorado toon on the second half of back to back in Colorado to take on the Avalanche. Potential Western Conference final preview there. Edmonton minus 105 on the Moneyline, Colorado minus 115. And even later on, the LA Kings in Vancouver to take on the Canucks. Another good one. Even on both sides of the Moneyline, minus 110. Two excellent games for you after the early games.

Yeah. Thirteen games tonight total. Little Kings thought Drew Doughty back on the ice. Nice. I know. Like that. Canada, does he have time? No.

No. And... Yeah, there is time. Oh. Okay. Do you think so? I do. He got a couple games and looked good and there was an injury.

It was like, who do we want? It's like... Yeah, maybe. Probably the guy who wins a lot for Canada. And there's one other one I wanted to mention. I love when my favorite league pass team is on the East Coast so I can actually keep an eye on them. The San Jose Sharks are in Columbus to take on the red hot Columbus Blue Jackets boys. They, I think they've won five in a row. Their Marchenko was lighter.

Do you see that? That shootout goalie scored? Marchenko are legit. Did you see the shootout goalie scored? The one-hander through the leg five-fold like he did like a Flick through the leg with one hand. He's unbelievable. Anyways Columbus he Rinsky's kill. Yeah, can we start talking about him being? Norris kind of like I could he's he's top three top four right now

I think he's over a point per game is if I could look that up quickly here I don't know if I can do that for now. I think he's over a point per game, isn't he? If I could look that up quickly here, I don't know if I can do that for you guys, but he's probably up there amongst them. Unfortunately, Quinn Hughes exists, so. Yeah, well, like I said, top three, top four. Right, yeah. Yep, all right, that was Game Time presented by Bet365.

Visit the app for the thoughts and find out why it's ever ordinary at Bet365. That's 119 plus, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. All right, let's take a quick break here while I order flowers or get some candy for my wife. We got news and notes. What do we got Sammy? Little Cam Neely?

We got Cam Neely talking, we got McDavid passing Yari Curry, we got NHL unveiling some stadium series jerseys. And the heat on Kyle Dubas in Pittsburgh. That's where we're going. The knives are sharp. That and more when we return to Real Kipper and Born. Hey, it's Ailish Forofar. And I'm Justin Cutford.

Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame, 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590 The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. the fan and if you get a chance. It was good I mean it's he had some interesting things to say about the health of the league. CBA charity, salary cap, state taxes, expansion, Four Nations, Great Chase, outdoor games thank you for asking my leaf fan question that he wouldn't even let you finish

what state taxes and how it affects the salary gap he was like he was literally like disgusted before you even got the question so thank you brother I really do appreciate that you say and I wanted, if it was a longer interview, to chime in that, yes, there's no reflection of Stanley Cups based on state, but it's like the salary cap just got flat the last five years. Players just started making their choices based on,

oh, I can squeeze out more there. Correct me if I'm wrong, Commissioner, but did Sam Reinhardt decide for $8 million? Yeah, that's a good point dollars? Anyways you're never like All the state is no think about all the state and province provinces you have to cover think about all All the political titles that constantly get changed in and out how new people come in Taxes change this is here. this is higher, this is lower. It'd be a nightmare.

It should be pre-taxed though, Kip. Whatever your state taxes deal with it beyond that and the taxes change, you deal with the taxes. But for the NHL's playing purposes, you can only spend. Commissioner also made a good point, cost of living. Like go spend a million dollars in- St. Louis, you're doing pretty good. Oh, Nashville?

I mean, you see what you can buy in Nashville for a million bucks and then compare it to New York or Toronto or Vancouver together a scotch tape and it's worth a million there's a great great Instagram account where it's like what can you get like you can buy like an French Castle or like a yeah or like a little house in Vancouver for the same price you just like like goes through it. Yeah. And then the rest of my life for the house that literally is falling apart every time I turn around. Yeah. As a reminder, this hour of Real Kipper and Born is brought to you by bet 365.

All right, on our news and notes, a couple of things we wanna get into, including, Sammy, you said it best with the Pittsburgh Penguins, the knives are out. And everybody's talking about recent roster changes, personnel decisions and of course that has to, lies on Kyle Dubas. So I was talking, you were talking about the one in the athletic, I believe it was Josh Yoder?

Josh Yoder did one on Jari. A friend of the show, Frank Ceravelli. I wouldn't say his was like a necessarily a takedown piece. It was more of a going through His transactions on the first summer that he got there and the damage that it's done. I guess it was a bit of a takedown piece It's a bit of anyways. It's not great. Neither of them are not unearned not unearned like it's valid. It's fair I think it's harsh, but I think it you know You need to show some harshness in the in the situation Just doesn't seem like it's a good thing like they kind of got some momentum back and they lose three in a row

They lost the squids on home ice like seems like it's heading in the wrong direction again there. Are you? Is Mary wrong to say that you were a big supporter of Kyle Dubas that you thought that he was heading in the right direction for the Leafs. Not with the Penguins. Yeah. No, personally Kyle hired me with the Marlies. I worked them like him very much. He was the new face, the new everything.

He represented what we thought was going to be a changing of the guard. Yeah, but you know, everyone becomes a character, a caricature of reality. And as many times as Kyle said, listen, I believe in like banging guys in playoffs and I go in and got Shannon Labushkin and all these guys and everyone goes, well, he's just a nerd.

It's like, I don't know that reality reflected what people made him out to be. On the other hand, it's totally fair to be like, whatever you think of them, here are the moves, they didn't work. You get fired. Totally fair. And I think he would agree with some of that. The Pittsburgh stuff though, I don't think I've liked the movies made since he's been there. I was never a Carlson booster. Even Noel Achari. Yeah. Two million. Three years. Right. Crazy Ryan Graves. Ryan Graves. the Ryan graves I like Jari Yeah, Jari's been terrible just cleared waivers. Yeah

That one's a tough one to it's been bad. It's really bad in Pittsburgh for sure five times five for Jari and You know what? I don't get like can't really you bidding against that four times five wouldn't cut it like I that's the thing That always gets me. Okay. I'm gonna I'm not gonna defend Kyle Dubas here but I think there's not a harder situation that you could go into than that one where like you're going in there as sort of like the teardown guy in a way like we like you're like the the visionary that's gonna start this from the ground up or you're sort of the but you also have Sid and

Malkin and you know, LaTang and you already have the goalie in place and Jari at that time who was actually pretty good for a couple years. So you're like, so we're supposed to be good, but also supposed like, so I gotta trade for Carlson. I gotta try to like bluster my way in here and none of it worked. Like I kind of understood like the thought process.

Yeah. But it's all a disaster. But not one of them worked. So it like the thought process. Yeah, but it's all a disaster So it's the hardest situation so I'm thinking about facing like Paul skeins, you know They go but he hasn't hit a pitch like yes, it's been good pitching But it's not like he got a bad couple exactly. No, you know Yeah, like he's gone 98 98 98 right down the middle. He didn't even take a swing. Yeah, but when he left here And he ended up in Pittsburgh, how do you not know,

how can you have not read the tea leaves from the moment it got serious that you could go to Pittsburgh, study that scenario and go, I need a seven year deal because I could get fired in two. Like realistically. How many years did he get?

How many years did he get? No, no, I'm saying though, but like, it looks like it's kind of shaping up that way. But the reason why he asked for seven years and all that money is because number one, he could and have people take it seriously, which the Fenway Group did, but it was really set up that you've got a sliver of hope

that you could turn this aging superstar hockey club into something because if you don't, it's over. Like, I don't, I never saw a scenario where he could overcome what's happening now because he will always be the guy that ruined Sid's last two or three years of his career. You can't recover from that, in my opinion, in that market. They will never forgive him for going down there

and not turning this thing around in two or three years. Now, he could- Well, if he has success after, they will. Do you really think they're gonna let him after either Sid's gone? Do you think the fans own the team or the people who hired him that like him? Buddy, once that building is half empty,

it's the fans will own the team. Okay? Okay? Yeah. You can't overcome that. They're already empty. It's already miserable down there. You think Kyle Dubas can survive the fans going, this is as bad as it was before we had Mario Lemieux or bad as it was before he had said Where they got the you know, they got the frozen

I love it, but at least you were closer to the Stanley Cups back then With Kevin Stevens and like you are so dis nobody not now years that before they got said they were horrendous I I see no scenario where you can miss the playoffs again this year and next year and then what what do you do with Sid? You just you just watch him babysit this team for another year and a half or do you trade him? But whatever it is, Kyle's tied his can to what they are today. You know I think when you look at a seven-year deal you're looking at where this aging core is and recognizing that it's on the way down and out

and saying, can you prop it up? And if at any point here, they knew a bottoms coming. And I think that they have him for seven with the idea that he's gonna be there for that post build. Tell the fans that right now. Just sell it, sell it. I mean, not my job to do it, but I think they believe that and that's why they signed him for seven years. They're not talking like that though. They're not talking like anything. No one's

saying anything. Look at what we hear. Except for people from Philly who are piling on. Go exactly listen to Daniel Brier. They're this close to making the playoffs. He's like, we're not off team. We're not buying. We're not fooling anybody. They're not, that's what they should be saying. They should take a page out of Daniel Brier's book right now and say, we're not fooling anybody. This is the way it is.

I already talked to Sid. To Sammy's point, he could have left. Sid could have left. He didn't want to stay. I asked him to stay, help me with the transition, and however long he wants to stay, he's got a job here, but this is gonna take three or four years, and we're gonna stink. I mean, when he went there, they had just signed Malkin,

they had just signed LeTang. They didn't have a team that you would go in and say, yes, hi, I knew GM, we're gonna stink. That was not the plan when he went there. He took a couple of big steps, and he was like, I'm would go in and say, yes, hi, I knew GM, we're going to stink. That was not the plan when he went there. He took a couple of big swings, which was stupid. And I didn't like the swing he made. They're all bad swings.

But this was the idea was that there would be a swing and it missed. I don't think he went there on his own and said, I think we got something here, boys. He walked into Brendan Shanahan's office, however many years ago in Toronto, and he sold something Mm-hmm, and it didn't work monorail and then he took he took the same sales pitch and he went to Pittsburgh And it failed Spetsa believed in it He went that's better. I think spats. I think he's got a chance to be a good hockey guy, but he's going to have to, he's going to have to separate there.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I, you know, I, it's so funny because like, again, this feels so much more about like people's frustration and anger. It's something that I don't know what you think he is or whatever that there is some moral failing involved. Well, I mean, just that he's part of like team Canada. Yes. Everyone like he does seem to have a bit of a spell over people.

Yeah, that's fair. He's a great talker. Like it really like he's got this almost like he's tricking people a little bit like a little bit of a snake oil salesman, if I'm being honest, because it's like's like what has he like you know you'll push back on this but like what has he done nothing to be a team Canada guy he's like with Doug Armstrong and like Jim Neal I know he's like Montemarie like you're the young guy with the dollar. No I just I want to call their cup with a no-deal salary. He's got a nice body.

It's funny because it's like the people who've decided they don't like the new school and here come they're taking our jobs You know, they've decided they've painted him with all this whatever It's like they were wildly successful the years. I was there. We didn't have an NHL salary cap We went to the final we went to the conference final. They're very good hockey people. They're not idiots So I agree that it's gone poorly. I agree that the knives out are earned for Dubas in this case. I think people are really enjoying this for the same reasons people are hiring them. I mean I got that that article by Frank Diemmy by literally six different people. Yeah. Like it's it's a popular piece amongst

Leafs Nation. I'm sure it's big. But I you know, I feel almost at this point where it's like, well, I'm just, everyone kind of knows. I think a lot of people who, you know. Like remember the articles that were written after he left? Your people are crying and it's like- Was it people? Or was it the one that you're thinking of? Well, there was an article written about how it's like there's this irreplaceable hole

in the Maple Leafs organization and I don't know, I just never got it. Fair enough. And there's, anyways, go ahead. Okay, Cam Neely, anything there? I'd rather talk about McDavid greasily elbowing a guy and getting away with it. Yeah, so did the game last night? That was your game last night.

It was. And what did you guys say about it? We said nothing about it. Because Marcus Johansson has the chin of the first guy and Mike Tyson's super punch out He's that's what you needed to say on the telecast last night. He's had a few so were you guys like All in agreement that it was nothing Colby thought it was nothing thought it was like a you know Incidental if it best glancing contact.

I kind of feel like he barely touched him. Oh, we got it. Oh, we got it. But I do think he did it. Like, I don't think he didn't try to hit him. I also don't think he's a criminal for it. It's- But yeah, it's not suspendable to me.

No, it's a penalty. Put him in the box for Elboy, I don't know. Yeah, and you know, even if he doesn't deserve a fine, fine him. Look, he's like a shot in an old west. You have a great opportunity to fake a message that he we treat all our players equal. Yeah Just fine. Here's what kills me the Sleuthood he took was it from Kemp or whatever? Yeah, and you look at the way that other sports protect their superstars. That was 10 times worse than that. I admit to feeling some protection for Over McDavid

here because that's Loo-Fit on him. We should be going, you can't touch him. He is a non-touchable. It's a five game suspension. You can't slew fit McDavid. So when McDavid go, Oh, his jersey brushed up against the chin hero, Johansson, I feel a little protective. I'm with you. Like he could baseball swing Marty McSorley style and I still wouldn't suspend him. That guy's a god. I wouldn't, but. The NBA, you can't touch their best players. You can fake it, you could've faked it.

You could've fined him. If you breathe on Patrick Mahome, you're kicked out of the league. Well yeah, they're like, how do we get Taylor Swift into the Super Bowl? There's a great, another great account on Instagram is like, you know, 15-yard penalty for holding on Patrick Mahome, Chief win the Super Bowl.

It's like, if anyone goes anywhere near him, you're done. Can we rig it up a little bit here for our best guys? And Ryan Hartman, greasy slew foot, kicks out the legs of Dry Cytil last night. This is the one guy that everybody spends, like, 300 bucks to go see yeah, like you suspend him It's like showing up at a Taylor Swift concert and Taylor ain't there Yeah, I mean I would never I wouldn't suspend that's I mean close to suspension right you could give him five I mean they did suspend Matthews for something it was one of those things like should we talk on the broadcast should we talk about?

This is this big enough to talk about? Oh, no, it was big enough, but they should have absolutely suspended campaign for that soo-flying. That was rotten the best player in the league. Anyways Wow, what a jam packed two hours today. Yeah good stuff. What a radio All right Thanks to Tom Fitzgerald general manager of the New Jersey Devils in our leaf hour and then of course manager of the New Jersey Devils in our leaf hour. And then of course, the commissioner of the national hockey league, Gary Bettman. And again, if you are just catching this live now, you can download it, watch it on YouTube, but a lot of interesting things from the commissioner. And we thank him for, for coming on the air tomorrow off the rails, Doug McLean, Leafs Line Baby, and Leafs Line. Call in! Alright, have a great night everybody.