Red Scare - 100 Boyfriends w/ Brontez Purnell

Episode Date: March 27, 2021

Writer and musician Brontez Purnell stops by the pod to talk about his new book 100 Boyfriends.  Buy Brontez's book

That's totally okay, okay, we're back very special guest today. Brontes Pernell, the author of 100 Boyfriends. Hi. Congrats on the release of your book. Yeah. What do you feel?

When did this book come out? Like very recently? Well, like it came out in February, but I'm actually I finished that shit like a year and a half ago. And so I've just been like sitting in crazy anticipation for this fucking this elephant birth or whatever. How do you feel now?

How's your postpartum? Um, it's I don't know, it's good. I'm glad I'm totally glad it's out there and stuff. And yeah, it's probably the most produced piece of art I've ever put out because it's like, you know, it's like FSG is like this major publisher. And quite honestly, I always thought that my graduation into that would be

putting a record out on sub pop. That's what I was hoping for. But this is what God gave me. So I'm happy to get it. So yeah, you were in the band Gravy train. Oh, Lord, yes. When I was like 12. Yes, younger lovers.

Yeah, I still do that. Yeah, I'm and I've actually known you since I was 17 years old when I first moved to the Bay area. And I have a very reading your book, which has a lot of like, it made me feel very nostalgic for the Bay area, which by the way, did you hear Mills College closed down? Man, there are some angry feminists.

They were like, that's where I first ate. Pussy. Yeah, they went bankrupt, but that's why I wasn't at Mills yet, but I was in Oakland and I had my 18th birthday party, which was like a garage rock show. And I don't often talk about my garage rock past, but I was like, I don't know, I don't know.

But I remember it vividly because I was sick. I was like really drunk or sick or had like food poisoning or something. And you put me in your bedroom very sweetly so that I could like lie down. And that was the first time I had ever seen like a dildo in real life. Wow.

And I remember being like, wow, like California. I'm in the baggage room and he has this phallic symbol of oppression. Just. Anything can happen. You were like in the, no, you were in the younger lovers video keeps on falling down. Yes.

I was in a younger lovers video. I got mugged that day. I was like leaving your house after that shoe. And I was really stoned and I was like walking. I guess you said you were in the house. I was like, I'm in the house. I was in the house. I was in the house after that shoe.

And I was really stoned and I was like walking. I guess you still, you still live there. I'm more reveal your location. But yeah. No, no, read his phone number on, on Eric. Cause maybe he has some fans who want to come and sex murder him. Oh God.

There's nothing left to suck anymore. They. like that place got taken over and like by some like, you know, real estate firm and the rooms there are like $1,500 and $1,600 and like $2,000 a room now. That's insane. Yeah. Well, that's how it is here too, in certain parts, like Castlebrade or whatever in Bushwick, where I think they're like an apartment there costs as much as my apartment, but you like it's a communal like adult dorm room kind of thing. Who the fuck taught them, you know what I'm saying, like people get all the right messaging about leftist kind of culture, but then the execution just goes so

terribly wrong. You're supposed to live with lots of people for it to be cheaper or whatever, but yeah, like when we like when we were hanging out that room was like 400 bucks and like I'll just be like looking at thinking somebody is like paying, I don't know, like $2,000 for this room. I used to smoke crack in and shit. Stupid. Yeah, I bet there's not a lot of muggies there. Wait, was this the mugging that you talked about on one of the recent episodes where the guy pulled the gun on you and you like laid down in a fetal position? Yeah. It wasn't a, it was like they were teeth. Yeah, they were like very young. So they seemed like they would shoot me. Yeah. Wait, hold up, wait, why the fetal position? Because I had never had a gun pointed at me before. I didn't mean to

take the blame. No, it's that those are my instincts. I wasn't cut out for getting mugged. Yeah, I'm trying to think. I was like, I would, I've laid down before, but I never thought to go into the fetal position, which honestly sounds way more comforting. Like, yeah, I was just, my instincts just kicked in. I mean, it makes sense because it's like the position that you come into this world in and also, you know, could be the position that you were taken out of this world. Yeah, I hope to die in a fetal position. Damn. Well, I'm glad you're here. That video was really cute. It really, I'm glad I, I'm glad I had all those experiences. Well, no, I mean, it's, I don't know, it's, it's always nice to look at any type of timestamp. And I feel like that was like kind

of like that last era where you could just call up everyone and they'd show up and like just shoot something on film and just, you know, like, because we're like, you know, crazy kids from the sixties playing. That was, no, that was really fun. And I think, yeah, right, not too long after that, that kind of was all over. So yeah, how so many people are that I know that used to live in the Bay areas seem like they're like, completely doomed. Do you know what I mean? No, I mean, I think, I think art like art wise, the Bay is a place that I think at several key points in this history kind of, you know, overestimated its importance. And, you know, people come with a lot of bravado and a lot of super, super high expectations. But really, it's just like, it's

a very like DIY art place. There's no real industry here. So the kids I knew there's so much talent here that, you know, when they really wanted to compete, they moved to New York, or they moved to LA, you know, you can't really stay here unless you have some really, I think some really, really, really like iron clad sense of what you want to do and you want to take a super long road to get there. That's totally fine for here. But, you know, beyond that, you know, you're really good for East, though. Yeah, it's you know, it's not, it was a very Peter Pan place, I think for so long. And so, well, you know, out of being that. How did you end up in the Bay Area? You're from Alabama, or is that okay? Okay, so two things. My grandmother's brother came here in the 60s,

and he was like this blues musician. He, so he worked at Fantasy Records, like he worked with like Big Mama Thor, and then Creed is Clearwater Revival, and like, you know what I'm saying, just like kind of in that loop. He was also the band leader at Elias Mile High, like a blues club. So he had this crazy white hippie girlfriend, and they would come to Alabama for family reunions, and like, they looked totally like, like West Coast Bohemian people, and we had never seen that, but they, of course, I think knew I was gay, and also, yeah, grandkids, like, or out of his grand musician. But you're gay? Yeah. Exactly. You know, I was a fucking, a pole smoker. What do you call fucking? Yeah, but he was like, you know, they were like, you need to move to the Bay Area,

like you, you would love it there, blah, blah, blah. And then my friends were in this band XBXRX, and I think I was 18. I was 18. No, I was 19. Anyway, they, someone, they were driving from Alabama to Oakland, and the person they were going with dropped out, and they were like, do you want to hop in the van? And I just hopped in the van. Like, I had never even been here, but I was like, fuck it. Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. And you stayed and, you know, you've been there ever since. So I guess we should talk about the book. I know that they always say to never judge a book by its cover, but when I saw the cover, I was like pleasantly surprised because you know, like everything is like this kind of Casper mattress subway ad design

now. And I thought that I thought like the cover was really beautiful and well done and that like voted well for the rest of the book. And the book is really good. I highly recommend it. And I hate everything. I haven't read like a novel or I guess it's more like a collection of short stories, but I haven't read like fiction in a very long time. Yeah, no, it's a really beautiful piece of writing. I'm not just saying that this is black and gay. I'm not. I know so many black gay artists that make absolute garbage, celebrate garbage. Um, but that's really not like a racial or sexual orientation issue. I think just 90% of all artists make garbage. Media doesn't discriminate. That's the best argument against racism. But yeah, so the book, can you talk about like,

how would you describe the book? First of all, because it's not really like a novel, but it's not really a collection of short stories either. You know, but on the other hand, I felt like it really honored like the formal conventions of fiction writing in a way that a lot of like a DIY or like more independent art does not. No, it was, it was, it was kind of a long road, how it got to look, how it did. How do I explain it? It happened like in sections. Like, so originally, let's go way back. I did this book called Since I Layed My Birding Down. It was my second novel. And I got this award called the Whiting Award for fiction. And it's like kind of a big deal fiction award. Like Tony Morrison presented our awards in New York that year. Like, and so

it puts you kind of on a map in this weird way. And so one of this, this editor from FSG hit me up and asked if I had had any texts. And so at the time I was working on 100 Boyfriends, which originally was supposed to just be like this long form prose poetry book. So that section in it called The Boyfriends, that's more poetry. That's the original bones for the book. I was originally supposed to deliver that to City Lights. Like I was talking to City Lights, it was supposed to be like, you know, that experimental beatnik kind of poetry book. But when I got over to FSG, they were kind of like, well, do you have like any like stories or anything? Because we know like that's like a good, that's where you kind of shine or whatever. And I actually had been working on

some short stories. So then we became kind of like beginning to like layer it. Originally too, those poems, the original poems was, I have this dance company. And four years before I had did this performance piece in this gallery called Bombs Uber, California. And it was a text installation. So those original poems you see were all texts in the background of this like dance that I had made. And then I was done with the show and I was collecting all the parchment. And I was like, oh, actually, I like these poems. I need to massage them more. And so that's what became the initial initial 100 Boyfriends text. It's kind of really convoluted, I know, but well, I think it has like a very interesting approach to time that feels very, it has its own kind of logic that feels very

satisfying. Yeah, I really did enjoy it very much. Yeah, it was like one of the first, like one of the few books I've read that like, I didn't want it to end. Usually I'm like, you know, speeding through these books. And I'm just like, please make it stop. And you have to finish it. Because you're like interviewing someone or you put your mind to it or whatever. I'm just going to read a couple of passages so you don't have to quote yourself. They're like really beautiful. My mother had explained to me that buildings need a human breath in them to keep them moist and held together. Abandoned buildings are like abandoned people. They die sooner. What wasn't to love about Janet Jackson? She had it all. She had banged. She drank water out of the bottle. This baffled mickey.

And she was a dancer who lived in a warehouse. I love the part about the guy like doing cardio in a fear based manner. And the part about where you say like polite lies are is how men conquer. And I feel like you really kind of skillfully toggle between being vapid and being profound, which keeps the kind of reader on their feet. But how much of this is like, autobiographical? You don't have to answer that question. What I really want to know is the guy in the first story who made who had 80,000 in his checking account. Is that a real guy you encountered? That's really what I want to know. Okay. So let me normally ask skirt that question. But since like we all sisters here, I'll give you the T like I'll give you the T. I'd normally

write from an auto fictional space. Like, of course, it's like based in like something, but it's very rare that I'll just sit in a situation and just be clocking everything to like right later. The characters and the people are always a composite, like of probably like me and my friends. And like kind of like some other elements, like, it's pretty close to life, but it certainly did not happen that way. And also is the guy with $80,000 real? Oh, yeah, he's okay. Do you know how many fucking worthless waste of white privileges I have let coming me money lying around and I'm sitting up in this dirty ass room on a fucking bed with no blanket on it. And the whole time that fool was rich. But like, okay, do you know what he did for a living

that he had 80 pay in a checking account, not even in savings? And do you know what his savings look like? That's another thing that I want to know. Like, no, like that. But then also I feel like there's like a lot of people around here like that. Like, I've had found over the years, because I do think for a lot of years, it was very much about like playing into like the grunge Renaissance. And we're all like dirtbags. But then one day it struck me, I was like, wait, like, some of us are not actually as poor as we you know what I mean? Like, so I think that that's kind of a funny thing. But I think San Francisco is like that all day. Like, I like LA because in LA, at least the rich girls pretend to be rich girls. Like, the Bay is very about like, we are

all egalitarian anarchists, whatever. And it's funny, you would definitely I think about that character a lot, because he just like exemplifies what I think like, the most extreme of what the Bay can be. Yeah, totally. And that which contributes to the Peter Pan syndrome of a kind of it's like people go there to be degenerate. But more or less, and like, I'm not going to get it too much in on that tip. Because I mean, I know, obviously, I love the Bay, I love every place I'm at. But I mean, you know, I think so much of the soul of that book is based in this kind of emotional spear. So I don't know. I have a question about the epilogue of your diary. Is the record producer who you dressed up like Donna Summer for real first? Like, no, right? It's like,

the other thing too is like, the whole point of this book was really to play with kind of temporality, you know, like, time. And also like 100 Boyfriends is like, I don't know, I have so many people that for real get mad because it's not like a book about 100 boys. But it's also like, I don't know. It's also how the character or the main character, though there's not one kind of shifts in moment in time or whatever. It's like, he's also one of the 100, you know, how we become a different person every time we date someone. Every time we leave someone, we become a different person, you know. So I don't know. I don't know how obvious it is, but it's a very temporal moment, most of it. You know, like in those video games where you use a joystick just to shift perspective,

kind of, yeah, I'm like, that's kind of like in those fighting games where like, you can like, look at yourself head on, or you can see the motion from the back or the side, like how the camera is switching like that. That was one of the things I definitely wanted to play with. Like we're always the idea that we're always kind of a different person. Yeah, I mean, it feels it feels like actually going through it when you read the book, like you're experiencing it. Are you an alcoholic? I was for a lot of years. I'm asking, it takes one to know, and I'm asking just so much of the book is like, alcohol fueled, you know? Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's kind of very compote-y, right?

Yeah. Well, everything is a composite when you're drunk. Oh, for sure. But it's also, I don't know, like there's so many, I think there's so many books and so many like kind of what I think is gay fiction in general. It's always like said to like prove us and are just like our best like kind of light or whatever. And they never, I don't know, it's always about like, oh, I found my daddy on the French Riviera and life is great and shit like that. They never really had just, you know, kind of like these base characters that I saw all the time, kind of like dealing like with shit. And I don't know, the homosexual world and the general artist world I came out with, most people like struggle with some form of addiction.

And it's also so common that it not need to be like this, like, you know, the basis of the story, but it definitely is, you know, like a plot point in it. So I never really had a way from talking about that too, because it's common. Well, sorry. I, to that point, I wanted to ask you about sex addiction and quote apart. About what? Sex addiction. Oh, sex addiction. They say it's not an actual thing. So I've heard, yeah, but it definitely can feel very real. And it does in your book. And there's a part in one of the stories where a character goes to an STD clinic and he says, I get fucked a lot, doc. I said like so much, figuratively speaking, I don't have a mother a last name or a goal or a purpose in life. I'm just a whole. I stopped just short of saying

my only desire is to be desired. I feel like the whole equation cancels itself out. And what really, what it really means is I have no will. I can it will work out all sense of self just so a boy can have one more hole to fuck me in. I'm afraid of this terrible power and we all I just wait to be wanted. It's killing me, doctor. And I thought that was a very astute and powerful description of a very specific kind of feeling that corresponds to being penetrated. And in that way, it's yeah, it is a very gay book, but it's also so is transcendent and speaks like a universal experience of being a bottom of bottom in life. No, for sure. You know, most of the people that really connect with this book are like women,

or that's who I'd never, ever have a big group of gay men be like, yeah, Brontes, like it's always like, it's generally like punk punk punk ladies in my kind of same social sphere. Generally, it's generally like a 30 to 40 something like countercultural identified like ladies like, oh, I really like got this book. But then 100 boyfriends like how hard is it to fucking, how hard is it to like, get a woman to believe that man ain't shit. Do you know what I mean? So of course, of course, that's who's going to pick up this book and be like, no, I get it. Because it's probably like too close to home for gay guys, like, I think maybe gay guys would be more like, like they would gravitate to maybe a similar book written by a woman, but with lemon,

like it's totally relatable for us, you know, because it's like, I think like, I guess my question would be like, do you think like everyone now is kind of a little bit spiritually gay? You know, there's so many like options, there's so many options now to where I think people can like really actually begin to even think or purse this out. What I do love about most of like, what's going on with like transgender rights and explaining that is really just the idea that sex and gender are two different things. And these were concepts that we were taught, you know, by people who I don't know, probably shouldn't have been teaching anybody a goddamn thing. So it's just something again to deeply question, you know, I forgot why I was talking

about that. We're talking about how like your book appeals to women in their 30s and 40s, but I was thinking about how like women, you know, there's so many women now who are in their 30s and 40s were basically like single and like kind of alcoholics, like there's I read some article about how like liver disease is up among women. And I think we're all kind of like like reaching a similar thing. But on that note, there's also a lot of father son stuff, a lot of Freudian father son stuff going on this book, like one of my favorite juxtapositions, I'm sorry to use that word, I really hate it. Hey, counterpose. Counterpose is the one between the the like is the the one between the second story hoker voice part one, which part of which

describes like the narrator's trist with a divorce handsome older black man with black man who has sons about his age, that he runs into one day with his sons. And then the third story inherited winter coat, which is which begins with an anecdote about the narrator's father, who was a train conductor and he accidentally helps the young man suicide on the tracks. And then he is, you know, has just died himself. I'm curious if that like particular, what was it counterpose? Is that was that intentional? And like how much of the kind of father son stuff was intentional? The daddy stuff. The daddy stuff. Yeah. I think I don't think it was like any more intentional than any, than any other than any other thing that was kind of set in the pantheon of

things that we're talking about. And also like, I don't know if you could have 100 boyfriends or whatever, and you not discuss like essentially like the first man you ever loved or didn't love, you know, like this is kind of a homework in our lives. And I never even thought about it. But I remember when I was like 24, I was getting a job at this bathhouse in Berkeley. And the manager was just like this older dude, such a pervert. He was just like telling me how he liked the way my jeans fit. And then if I had problems with my father, like right in the And then I remember I was like, I did this crazy indie rock porn one time, like for this company, and I was auditioning. And like the producers totally asked me a question about like my father,

like my favorite memory of my father, and then asked me to jerk off in front of them right after too. Like, so it was like, like, it was I remember like all these kind of crazy like pairings or how like I think in gay world, people really do like want to know like kind of this history. So yeah, I don't think it's like it was intentional so much is just really natural to kind of assess these characters are kind of in sussing out, you know, all their relationalities to men, you know, that question's going to pop up here and there, just naturally. The daddy is a very charged and powerful concept. It is a trope and a half. And there's yeah, there's a later chapter where the protagonist finds like an SD card with pictures

of his dad getting like sucked off on it and jacks off to it for a period of time. Very cool. I said, I mean, I meant degeneracy and kind of a value neutral way. What did you make of the kind of like burger records, garage rock, pedophilia reckoning? You know, I think, oh, I have a lot of neutral feelings on it because I just feel like there were some white folks problems that I just need not concern myself with. Yeah. But I was really confused because it's it definitely seemed internal like drama that was happening like I don't know at the in the core of SoCal because they named all the list of the accused dudes. I know none of them motherfuckers. I remember one story where the girl was just like, yeah, I was 13

and I would call him over to my mom's house and we'd have sex outside in the car. And I was sitting there thinking like, I'm thinking like, girl, only a fucking 13 year old white woman or white past in Latina, whatever. She wasn't a nigga. I remember that. Fuck it. Fuck it. Gonna call, gonna call your fucking 28 year old boyfriend up to fucking the car and then fucking 20 years later be like, yeah, he was a fucking scumbag. And I'm just like, man, my mama would have whooped my ass. Like, could y'all fuck outside in the car? Oh, you're like, yeah. I mean, I didn't know anyone in like the burger record circle specifically because I was a teen in the Bay Area. So I was like, sort of the prey for like older Bay Area creeps and feeble files, whatever. But yeah,

when all that stuff came out, I was like, well, duh, like, it's garage rock. And like these, it's not like they're like mastermindings and kind of like pedophile sex ring. I was like, these men are like mentally like teenagers. So of course they're going to try to talk like a teenage but hard core scene. Like any kind of like DIY music movement is chock full of like, young guys who want to fuck underage girls. It's just like far for the chorus. Yeah. And yeah, it's a very straight thing to make a big deal of mouth. Yeah. Well, it's well, because ultimately what was confusing to me was like when it was like presented, like it was like this like mastermind, like sex ring. And I just remember also just so much tumultuousness in fucking garage rock

considering it's like the dumbest white boys playing a surf music. I don't know. You know, really, you have to have this type of scandal to get anything out of that because it was so rapid otherwise, right? And then I was just like, yo, like, they were telling stories about these dudes. And I'm just like, girl, like, even when I was 15 or 16, I could discern when I was fucking a homeless drug addict. Like, it's like, it seems like, you know, I mean, we all have that, right? We get older and we think about them first guys, we gave some pussy to and it was just like, oh, damn, like that guy was like kind of like a creep loser. How much how much you feel that person needs to pay for that or not really up to you and also depending like what like what happened. I only

remember hearing a couple of stories where people like accusing people of like, like rape and like abuse and like gnarly shit. But then also padded with all these other stories of being like, oh, this person gave me out. Did y'all drop out again? Yeah. No, no, yeah, like it's kind of like these there was it just always confuses me when it's like the super disturbing stories of just like, you know, like rape abuse or whatever. But then flanked mostly and in the same regard as these stories are like, well, he was 21 and he gave me a beer at a show and like the hysteria around kind of, I don't know, there's kind of like, what seems like this kind of moral campaign, there's something about it ultimately that I think can read as disgenuous and it's like most extreme.

So alongside, you know, shit that we should be concerned about to and like, you know, you know, taking a stand against like, um, I don't know, there's something about that that doesn't feel quite like it either. And also, no, I don't, I mean, it was definitely the most relevant thing to happen in the garage rock for a long time. But that reminds me of a part in your book again, where your character or the protagonist says a few times about being sort of like will fully non-judgmental. And he says one thing I can truly say I love about myself is that I'm too sketched to lead a moral campaign against anybody. Leading a moral campaigning against anything just seemed like a lot of work and I was stoned. No, I really enjoyed. Yeah, that was beautiful. I

have a question about that because I read the kind of the New York Times profile. Congratulations on your book. And the guy said that the book's narrators share a set of tactics and traits. So however, a certain sweetness and passivity and above all a militant refusal to judge others. And, you know, twice in two separate stories, a narrator describes himself as willfully non-judgmental and then there's the passage that Dasha just read, which is when the narrator sees his HIV counselor and she refers him to a mental health counselor who then refers him to HR who then informs him that he should have the first counselor fired for triggering him. And then, you know, the narrator goes on to say like I'm not going to lead a moral campaign against anybody.

But I want to ask you about this kind of like lack of judgment, which seems different from the lack of judgment that like I personally encounter in young people because that's like more like indiscriminate or casual. This seems more like a lack of judgment kind of inspired by, you know, it's like self-aware and world weary. And I'm curious if that's like a thing of age and experience, like you've been around the block. I'm not trying to date you, but or if it's something you've always had. I've been around the block and I don't know, like I think a lot of those stories kind of set themselves in kind of the spirit of dealing, being able to deal, like being able to deal communally. Because even saying, you know, even the title 100 boyfriends in a world where most

people probably say they only have like three to four serious ones in a life kind of inspires the fact that you, you really are dealing with the subject of like humanness and how vast it is and how beautiful it is and how really ugly it is. And, you know, all of our, our problems or whatever, or if we look at like our problems or our degeneracies, you know, maybe not as like this kind of moral deficit, but something that kind of very well sits in a pattern of everything happening to us and like kind of the cascades of the world. Yeah, like how do you really actually, how do you really actually judge, judge, you know? I mean, of course there's levels of this. It's like, I really do believe that character when they said, you know, that this about this story with the drug

addict where it's like his drug addict boyfriend shows up to be taken care of. He's just like, this dude could show up with a severed head and I would still have to take care of him. You know, there's also like themes of like, you know, kind of being a sub, being a bottom for the world and always having to absorb like the shock and like the general like kind of like pain of it all. So I think it speaks to a universal bottom experience that transcends gayness. Yeah. Well, actually like one of our first guests on the pod was like a gay guy who said, you know, like 95% of the world is bottoms, like regardless of, you know, race or sex or orientation or creed or whatever. And that's like very true. Like we're all kind of bottom

for the day. There's no way to live in the world and not really be like, when are we not just, you know, I don't know, just enacted upon or extracted upon or, you know, and I think it's so funny too, when I see like all these memes of people being like, I should not have to do the emotional labor of X, Y and Z where I'm just like, I think emotional labor is kind of the price of the ticket of being born on this shitty rock. Like you don't, you don't get out of that, you know. Yeah, you don't get compensated for it. Not at all. In fact, I think it can even make it harder for you like exponentially, like just saying like I shouldn't, I'm above this or I shouldn't have to deal with this. It's just

you, I don't know, you deal with it all, you know, and I don't know, makes you better or warps your orbit or both. But it's also, it's definitely like, I like it in that it's definitely a strong choice that this person has made, ultimately. Yeah, I mean, I guess what appealed to me about the book other than like the beautiful prose is that it was not at all like outraged or bitter. It's, I think there's even a passage. I can't remember it now where the narrator goes home after, you know, he's kicked out by this guy who's fucking because his boyfriend is coming home early due to an emergency. And he's like, you know, I don't feel depressed or upset or belittled. I just have like this sense of deja vu. And it's, I feel like that's what makes it kind of transcend most of the

kind of cultural products that are coming out now because I like, you know, my thing is like gay culture and female culture has become both become really annoying because they're so outrage based, you know, they're so agree. Yeah. I definitely, I definitely get taken to tasks for that, like kind of a lot. And to go back before when I was saying like, Oh, like, I know lots of Black queer artists that make like garbage. There wasn't like a personal dig at them. But it's like, I have definitely been in spaces like that where there was this book since I laid my burden down where he talks about like just dealing with his white boyfriend. And like how his white boyfriend is just, I don't know, like, they kind of shitty. And I was accosted by this other writer who was

just like, Well, you should have explained this and you should have explained that. And she should have. And I'm glad y'all finally articulated this for me. Because it was just like, I think in that character's head, he's just like, Well, yeah, I'm dating this white boy. Of course, he's kind of shitty. Do I really need to write an essay about it? It should be all in the plot line, like, and also just in dealing with lots of people too. Like, I don't know, I don't have, I think you, you phase out of outrage, you know, because really, like, you could be outraged from here into the rest of your life, how long are you really going to just sit with disappointment that, you know, often does not behave the way in which we want it

to. You know, at the end of the day, like they say, you forgive people, not for them, but for yourself. You really, you really must. Like the one thing I've been dealing with too is like, all throughout this like, pandemic, I've just been finding new ways to blame my parents for everything. Because it's satisfying, like, shit, that's not even their fault. Like, I'm just like, I'm fat, you know, but it's, at the end of the day too, it's just like, I don't really have that, that thing, or I just, I feel like I've really come to the, with grips of the fact that there are really deep, irreconcilable injustices in the world, you know, and sometimes like a form of detachment is the only way to get around some of them. There's these spaces too that happen. I don't

know. Just, just in looking of how we, how we have to correct the past for ourselves in order to move forward, you know, and I just, you know, things like healing, we say we throw out this word healing all the time. Yeah, early fucking process. It is really ugly nips and tucks that kind of have to happen. And, you know, I think this, in that book, we kind of demonstrate all the ways in which people kind of deal, but also presenting, presenting being willfully non-judgmental, but also presenting it not as a defeatist kind of thing, but actually something that takes a lot of fucking strength and kind of character to deal with, you know. Yeah, yeah, it's like, it felt like a kind of like zen like compassion that you know, I'm sorry,

that's a very corny way of putting it, but it, but it's like something that you develop after like eating shit for a while and like, you know, coming to grips with yourself the rest of the world. And it just, you know, when you think, when you really think about like, woe culture, cancel culture, whatever we're calling it today, the main issue is that it's really taxing and toxic for yourself to be so constantly bitter and outraged all the time. No, for sure. Yeah, no, no, exactly. Like for sure. And it's like, if you go down that road of wanting to fund, there was some like person that said it, I've used this quote all the time, because one of my favorite mentors said it, one who devotes their life to cleanliness must also

devote their life to dirt. And if, you know, finding hypocrisy or, I don't know, any of the isms in the world is your, is your bag, you will never ever, you will find a limitless supply of that all throughout the world, you know, so I don't know. We're very, we should discern how we spend our energy, but also I don't get on to younger people because I was a such a fucking, I was a know it all piece of shit, too. You know what I mean? We always want to like put all this shit on Gen Z, like, oh, they think so much like we didn't come on. Like, is it every generation supposed to be a shitty self centered brat? Like, yeah, I mean, it goes the other way, too. It's like, you know, when people, I flinched a little when like young people are go around calling

older people boomers and being disrespectful to them, because I'm like, you're going to be that one day, don't you see that you're next in line like inevitably, but I get like, I get their position. Because they have no, you know, way of knowing. They have no discernment, too. And actually the boomers were really cool. It's just the really cool ones are dead. You know? Yeah. They were kind of a fucking, they're a badass generation with their fucking beatnik sweaters and shit. It was fun. Like, it was hella fun. But it's also like we, I don't know, I think, I think every generation or every age has a reckoning with the fact that you didn't really change the world. In fact, you added to the problem exponentially in a lot of

jobs. So, you know, whenever you get to an age where you really kind of reconcile like, you know, I am actually taking up space. That's, I think, when enlightenment comes. And so, you know, we wait. And so, yeah, one of my favorite chapters in your stories in your book is about the white boy with dreadlocks. And he said, as I remember that every time he was on top of me, his threads would graze my face and it felt like a nest of spiders crawling over me. I was too young to understand how this would sustain me permanently. But then it goes on to, they take like a road trip together and then he's on acid when he realizes that he has to go back to college. And then it goes on at the bus station. I tried to convince the dreadlocked white dude to come

back to school with me and that we should probably switch our majors to like business or computer science. I saw the look of judgment in his eyes and I knew immediately that he was going to say some busted shit and I was right. I can't follow you back to Babel when he explained. It's like Jerry said, man, short time to be here and a long time to be gone. And that one just made me laugh a lot. But I also thought that it had a very, a perspective of like wisdom and compassion throughout the whole book that was very nice. Yeah. And it's just like, I mean, he was a shitty white boy with dreadlocks, but at least he had good dick and paid for everything. You can hardly get that out of

anybody. Like, so no, I really love, I kind of love all the cast of characters in there. And also, I don't know, I think it's, it's been a, it's, it's been a minute since we saw those people. Yeah. White guys with dreadlocks. Yeah. Well, I, I just watched a really bad documentary about Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers by Peter Bogdanovich. And I think his drummer is like a white guy with dreadlocks. He's in his like late fifties or something. And I was stunned that this man had gone, like, lived his life so long, nobody telling him that he needs to cut his hair. I just, it, it's, it's hard. But also like at this point, I don't even think I noticed people's hair anymore. Just ever since mine started turning gray, I don't really care about anyone else's.

I like gray hair. I'm also turning gray. Can I ask you like about the, while we're talking about like age, generations and stuff, what are like the, the main generational differences you see between like Gen X and Millennial Gays and like Zoomer Gays? Because you're kind of a cast, yeah. Gen X, Millennial. I think the biggest kind of thing is prep. Like, and like the option of, of, yeah, just like the option of having prep. Like I do think if I had been just five years younger, I'd probably be HIV negative. And they would have just, you know, I was, I was just at like that cut offline. And so I remember like us being like just these wild hellish boys at the bar. And but also being very much like, I remember really idolizing that cult of Treasure Island media

and like the barebacker dudes and stuff. Like, but that was like, it was a very quite a political statement then to be like, yeah, like, I don't, yeah, I don't fuck with condoms. Like, oh God. But also that kind of generational shame isn't really upon them. Because, you know, they have this drug that kind of erases the politicality of it. Because really, like if you, I remember like, if you said to some older dude, yeah, I don't want to use a condom, it could turn so quick, it either be like, oh, yeah, this boy is down, this boy is ready to party. Fuck yeah, or this fucking poor fucking kid, like who the fuck has been teaching him, he's been lied to, he has a moral deficit, just like kind of this really charged kind of ickiness that I think I explore in my other

books more. But that's really, that's really kind of it. But then also being that I came of age really before Grindr, and I really was probably like, I was a bathhouse boy, like I went to a bathhouse. Whereas like, I feel like most millennials that I've meet, they really kind of grew up on Grindr with this super selective like thing where it was like, I was like at the bathhouse fucking older dudes and how that's kind of a generational thing too, because as I'm getting older, a lot of the men that were like my first sexual teachers, they're like dying out, or they have erectile dysfunction to the point where they don't really perform as tops anymore. So they move out of that realm, I'm filtering into the age they were, right, as I met them. But I don't see that kind

of the way my age group had stormed that bathhouse kind of, I don't really see those numbers getting replenished. Okay, like I remember just a flush of like dudes my age, like at the bathhouse when I was like going there. Now that I'm filtering into the age that my daddies were, when I first started going, I don't see that kind of critical flush or the last couple of years, I don't really see that many young people like doing it because I think it's that thought of as like an old form. I will say after the pandemic is over, maybe that'll all change because people are sick of looking on their phone and they just need to like go in a fucking an actual place with people willing to do it and get it done. So yeah, I hope so. I hope so. My fear is that people are going to like retreat

more into their phones and stop fucking completely. Yeah, because yeah, like, I think all stats point to the fact that like, people are just fucking and sucking way less than young people are. Like there was some chart that was circulating on Twitter about how like, a skyrocketing number of young men report being virgins much later, which was crazy to me. Well, those are straight. Yeah, yeah. They're probably not gay, but I'm sure there's a slight uptake among gay men too. I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. Probably, you know what though, I never feel sorry for straight dudes in that regard, because it's just like in cell culture. It's just like, if you sit and fucking at a table and watch porn on the internet all day, of course, you're going to be

terrified to approach an actual woman and any kind of, you know what I mean? Like, I think just like, I don't know, like, it's like, they're probably virgins because like, they probably just don't aren't very good conversationalists. Maybe they do kind of like, like suck. I don't know, like they should try being gay. Well, also, they might blow it the hell off exponentially. Like, yeah, they could learn about conversation skills and intimacy and they can definitely play. I think that those are the boys that go over and like end up just doing a bunch of speed as to they can, so they can have sex. Like, they still overgo the kind of finishing school you need to like kind of get laid, even the most basic of

parameters, just like, I don't know. So there's a story in the book where an older protagonist is advised to take or he's looking like an ad or something for like testosterone replenishing treatments or something and he sort of, I forget what it says exactly. I didn't write it down, but about how he actually likes the diminishing testosterone and the sort of psychic effect it's having on him. And I was interested, yeah, kind of in your perspective on testosterone and its effects. Well, what I had in my 20s was I had a lot of like trans men and I noticed that when they started taking like testosterone treatment, like they just like turned into like these like horny like teenage boys, like everything would get so hype. It was like very

argumentative. It's just funny. It's some funny shit. And it's just like, it is crazy to think when you think of like, like I reside in a body, like I am very like, I am a hormone driven thing to a lot of aspects. Of course, like, I have reasoning and I have function, but it's just like, I don't know, there's like these basic things that kind of like, I don't know, you know, make it really fucking wild. And yeah, like I'm definitely, I'm definitely older. I'm definitely in that testosterone, replenish category, medically medical wise. But also the thing is like, you have to get you have to do it too, because it throws all your other chemicals out of whack. And it makes it you're more susceptible to things like, I don't know,

heart disease, depression, like muscle gain, you know, but it is hard to like kind of like make make that choice, where it's just like, you know, depending on this thing, where it's just like, I don't, I don't know. I just every time I look upon my very like testosterone driven, like sexual 20s youth, I just there's so much chaos there. And if there's like a buffer between that, like, I don't know, it's great, you know, I do honestly see how some people like kind of like turn into like, these like celibate monks, sometimes just like, you know, you know, like there's something about really tasting peace, after you've tasted lots of chaos, where it's like, you know, there's plenty of us that would do anything to keep, you know, a sense of peace,

you know, perspective shift. But I mean, like, I was having this conversation with my sister, the other day, because, you know, we had such a chaotic upbringing. And I think, you know, she said to me, all I want is peace. And I was like, Yeah, me too, like, I want to lead a boring life with peace, but you lose something, right? Like, in this story, you talk about how like, the narrator, like, he feels like he's no longer violent or horny. And there's like that connection between like violence and horniness, that it's also like, you know, the thing with, with like, gay guys is that it's two dudes, that's just what it is. So it's always going to be like more violent and more horny than like, or exponentially, like, no, I feel like most of the sex I have with other

dudes is like, we're like, you know, like volleyball teenage girl players. Plus, like, but women are violent as hell. I remember this. They are. Especially when you're high tea. This like girl, when I was like, my first move to the punk house, this girl like came into my, this girl I lived with, she was like a, you know, she came into my room in this like, cowgirl dress with and like pulled it up and she had like on a strap on right. And this before I ever even got fucked, I was sitting there with this boy that I was kind of dating and she was just like, I'm going to give you a surprise today. And she like has some lube with her and just throws like pulls my pants down, throws it on my ass and like gets on me and just starts going for it.

And I was like, remember, like, just being so like, like, I was like, okay, I guess I'm just like here with a hole. I don't even think I'd ever even got fucked yet. Like, whatever. Remember just being like so like, so like, like, damn, like, no, like, what's this idea that like girls aren't fucking crazy. Well, they are. Yeah, I also think like, that's the other thing that nobody talks about with like me too, where women are like perpetual victims and sayings and stuff is that a lot of women are very physically violent. It's just no man would really report that because it makes you look weak, you know, it's not it's, it's really interesting because I, you know, growing up this like in the 80s and like rural situations, like, where I think domestic violence

is like so common, people like turn a blind eye to it. But then watching those situations where like kind of both people play into that dynamic, where like, I've seen situations where like this woman would like, you know, emotionally corner her husband for like three hours at a time, just like this relentless onslaught of just, you know, every horrible thing she knew about him is past just like cornering just like some violent shit. But the point of the point of where it crosses the line is when like, the dude would hit her be like, get the fuck off me, bitch. That's when the police get called. That's when, you know, that's when like, male by the, the, the punctuation on that is always male violence, right? Like, like a dude

hit someone like that's like where that's where it like all stops. And that's like where it ends. The situation that happened before it, I don't know, it's talked about. And then often I would see sometimes like those self same women, once the guy is not there, kind of turn that abuse to the children. If you grow up witnessing all the ways in which this actually works. Yeah, I do think that you always kind of have this back IQ of like, just, I don't know, kind of wanting to see everything because it kind of works so goddamn counterintuitively and also the ways in which we all are enforcers of the patriarchy and kind of like patriarchal violence, you know, so. And straight men are very ill equipped, I think, to encounter emotional violence.

Oh, they don't have the, the fact that they lash out the only way that they kind of can, which is ultimately very weak. I think about all the time, kind of like my grandfather's generation in general, and like how like, yeah, they're like the heads of these houses and they're just male like privilege, but then also that point where like masculinity becomes like so infantilizing, where like this man's whole life, all he was expected to do was go to work, lay his paycheck on the table, and then deal out ass beatings to the children as according to like what his wife said, you know, like his wife literally like became like his mommy in a fucking in a very real sense, and just kind of never, you know, and he did that at like 19, you know what I mean? Like,

it's like, how are you ever supposed to like become a man where you moved from like your mother's care into your wife's care? And then, you know, what we talk about, like, I think toxic masculinity is just like really just kind of like this toxic immaturity, but also so much of our society, it gets built off of keeping men in that infant, infant state, you know what I'm saying, like not really having to like really know what it is to access your manhood or always constantly rearranging or changing what accessing manhood means. Of course, like we have a bunch of fucking confused people, like, but it's like so much, I don't know, that same system that, you know, kind of wants to keep women perpetual infants also does the same thing to men, you know,

in this weird roundabout way. And so what you have is like a really fucked up mess. And just given what they've done to the idea of a nuclear family over the years, I don't, I'm not someone who looks or like, it's another thing I don't really like about a lot of the straight men I know, like they kind of sit there and they're just like act like fucking him bows, they're like, why is the system burning down? I don't understand any of it. I'm like, there's no one, no one's invested in you ever fucking asking anything about it or asking a question beyond like these simple privileges they've allotted you and you dare not questioning them when you question them, you actually could have a whole lot more. So I don't know. I could talk all day on

this. Let me just in. I'm sorry, you guys, I didn't mean to get on a soap. No, no, no, no, no. No, by all means, because the internet is going to crap out this time. Yeah. So that's all on the record. Another motif of the book kind of to circle back, I think we've landed on something interesting with like the Zen quality that the book kind of has. And another motif of it is is boredom. It seems like the narrating protagonist is often bored or experiencing some kind of like deja vu or like repetitive cycles or something, but there's a part in one of the stories where someone describes being bored and says no one comes to punish or rescue me. And I thought that was very, that was like a Lana Del Rey song or something. Beautiful. And that's yeah, Lana is

a real, a real bottom, I think. We're going to say a real poet, but she's a poet and a bottom. And a cancer, like me. And a cancer. Oh yeah, I was going to ask you this time. It's funny because she got in trouble, right? Because she was talking about how there's no room for fragile women and people made it into like a race thing and tried to say that like she was coming out against like black pop stars or just not the case. But I think she was just expressing her eternal state status as a bottom. She's like, no, it's so funny when they're just like, no, like, look in, you're talking shit about black women. But actually, if you put it into context, Lana Del Rey is a pretty delicate white girl. And that's okay. But then you also sit her next to like, make the stallion and Cardi B

who are like, fucking on the stage in front of the Grammys. It's kind of like, I do kind of love the world we live in now. I like just, I never thought it possible. Sometimes I'm just like thinking out loud. I'm just like, yeah, all those things kind of coexist. But yeah. No, I try to get in touch with my fragile inner white woman, but I still feel like my fragile inner white woman will still cut you like she's a nasty bitch. She's not gonna curl up in the fetal position. I mean, she might, you know, but she fucking does it, man. I don't know. You're still in for a fight. Okay, so when I think of boredom, I do think it's kind of just a general thing of like, you know, some ADHD shit where it's just like, it's more so just like,

yeah, the need of feeling like you should be constantly like stimulated or something should be having more like, like flow. Like, I guess that's a question too. It's just like, why is this person particularly bored at this moment? Well, that's because they find stimulation and being in peril. Like if no one's coming to rescue or punish them, then there isn't any sense of like, peril or urgency. And that that's like a driving force of the young protagonists kind of life. Yeah, totally. It is funny too. Because then when the older characters, you see them yearn more for that piece. Yeah. So it's like, exactly. I do think these things kind of balance themselves out. And yeah, it's, you know, for as much people talk about like, I don't know the book

being slutty or whatever, like transgressive. It's like, I think the book kind of just deals with the fact that like, we are not fun sluts. Like sex happens in a lot of different facets, like sex happens because of boredom. It happens because of, I don't know, you know, like, like trauma, like, or just, you know, wanting to like, we have a pattern reoccur for comfort or something like that. So it's another great story is when he goes to fuck the Satanist guy. He wants to fuck a Satanist. He realizes how like mundane and corny it is. Yeah. Oh, man. No, it's, I think we've all had to fuck that level of dungeon and dragons do just to see if it was worth it. And sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't.

I mean, the condom thing was really funny for me, because like, if you're a Satanist, why would you abide by kind of the laws and standards of the normal, like, yeah, sexual health or like Christian ethics, right? Aren't you supposed to be bucking that trend? I think that was like really funny that he has like a bowl of condoms or whatever when he should be. Yeah. But it goes to show like how kind of like symbolic aesthetic these identities are. No, yeah. And just, you know, people's personal boundaries are limitless. You know, like, like, it's just kind of like, yeah, even like the other day where I was just like, there was this homeless man trying to sell me a butane-less lighter. And I was just like, I was like, oh,

like, I can't shake his hand. But if it had been 130 in the morning in the park, I totally would have sucked his dick. No, it's like, bro, like, what are these? I was trying to parse out what boundaries really mean. Well, it's, it's, it's always funny when somebody slaps you with like an arbitrary boundary that like they shouldn't have. Like one of the funniest things about dating Jewish men is that they're all hypochondriacs and obsessed with their own mentality. But they'll like eat your ass and fuck you without a condom, like no questions asked, like any woman. And I don't get that. I'm like, how are you like getting your blood pressure, you have like a blood pressure machine in a food scale and you're like counting calories and like, but you'll do that.

That's your, it's really funny. Like, I mean, I think personal boundaries are like very kind of like random and arbitrary. The scary thing is, I'm not like, where the fuck is my Jewish boyfriend having to work hard enough? Like, damn, like, I think, yeah, now that you you're getting all this great book praise, I think he's right around the corner. Yeah, now that you, you have a glowing profile in the New York Times, which is like the Jewish Bible. But I think, I think your problem is you live in the wrong place. You need to move to New York. This is where they are. Let me intermittent, let me finish my intermittent fasting for a year. So I can like, you know, like just, you know, be skinny again, because yeah, I'm fucking shallow enough to say it.

And then yeah, I'll come to New York where I plan on gaining more weight. Cause there's just, I assume if I moved to New York, I'll just like, you know, be like thick, curvy in charge. But I want to start at a lower base before I amp up exponentially. Totally. Yeah, that's okay. This is, this is a pro weight loss podcast. In case you haven't noticed. Oh my God. It's so hard down too. Cause I'm at that age where I'm just like, I feel like, you know, I do think I'm all for everybody feeling like good and like totally like addressing like any type of complex that like fucks with us. But I've always had a weird things with my fucking food and diet. Sometimes I think body positivity can also be a form of self deception. I feel like I don't like everything

about my character. Why should I not be able to not like everything about my body? I need not essentialize what I don't like about my body. But I also like, I don't know. I want to be able to like have critiques or whatever. But then even now when I want to go to lose weight, I can't even get to the treadmill cause I'm like, am I losing weight? Cause I want to lose weight. I'm losing weight because of internalized fat phobia. Am I doing this right? Am I a poser? Like it's like there are so many voices around it now, which I guess you'd have always been there before, but sometimes I just, that, that, that, that moment of inaction cause there's just too many goddamn points of view. Sometimes it gets, it gets kind of heavy on me. Do you like that guy? Yeah, I like

you know, it's funny too. Cause it's not, it's not a problem on other bodies. That's why I asked cause it's like, yeah, I think you look hot. I think you're great. Yeah, you're good. I like the salt and pepper personally. Fuckin, I earned it, goddamn it. It took long enough. But it's, no, it's, plus like even now too, like it's, when you get older too, you realize how much time you spent hating yourself at your skinniest. Yeah, most beautiful and you're never going to get that back. When they say youth is wasted on the young, like that has to be exactly what they mean. But then also like I'm thinking now too, where I'm just like, I've had this body so long and it's looked so many different ways. I actually can never truly hate it the way I did

before either. So even with that or being like, I want to lose weight, there's just such an appreciation. There's appreciation for the process. Cause when you get to the age where you've seen your friends like go crazy, get cancer, die this, when you get to the bottom of how your body can truly fucking betray you, like if you're still walking, like you really should love that shit. That's like some base level shit. But then also it's like, yeah, I still want to be 190 pounds just one more time before I die. So yeah, but I think like that, I guess that's what I was getting at this, like this lack of judgment and friends presence of like a zen like compassion is basically also like a sense of gratitude, which people don't have now. I think that's all it is.

Did you fucking like, no, like it's like, we are fucked, but you are with child. Like it's like, it's crazy. She's got a baby inside her. I always, you know what I always think about, which is crazy is that I have a male baby inside of me. So I'm like carrying something with like testosterone and a penis inside of my female body, which is just like very trippy. It's like psychedelic. He's gonna suck on your chin. I never even thought about that. Really. I have like a whole other trip with my mom, because it's just it's so different to when you're like, with like a single mom. And like, you're like, you're like the son, you're essentially the man of the house, but it's like, you're so like, you're the property of your mom. Right. Are you an only child or? No, I have like a younger sister

that's like four years younger. But for a minute, it was just like, you know, we had different dads, and my dad was kind of not in the picture. So even within the house I grew up with, with a stepfather, I was still just very much under the dominion of my mother. It was weird, unspoken, like rule, you know, and it's, yeah, I think it's like, it's, it's, it's funny, or I do, I am one of those dudes who claim like that is like kind of like my root and feminism, which like a lot of people like make fun of when guys are just like, oh, like my root and feminism is like watching my mom or being around my mom and people are like, oh, that's a very original answer. But part of me too is like, it's always some white feminists who grew up with like their mom and their dad. Your household is

just like, no, like you actually grow up with a fucking mom where like she is the breadwinner and she fucking deals with everything and you see what she fucking deals with in the world without a man there and you understand quite quickly, you know, how fucked up the world is, like, you know, for poor people, for women, for all of that, you know, but this is also, this is essentially like what the basis for what we call like third wave feminism, which I think I hate how that term often gets just one third wave. Yeah. Okay, so the second wave feminism, like, you know, like, like white women burning bras, blah, blah, blah. Third wave feminism gets attributed a lot, I think to riot girl and just, just like general like, just like,

I don't know, like, Gen X white girl shit is why they always sum it up. What I didn't know is the term third wave feminism was coined by Alice Walker's daughter, a black woman came up with the term and the essential point of what the biggest distinction with third wave feminism is intersectionality. That's what they never kind of that's the I learned about that at at Mills College. Oh, no, I really did. I remember being like, Oh, wow, intersectionality, they taught you, like, they actually taught you about feminism. And yeah, I got a real feminist education. I learned about all heterosexual sexes, rape, where I fall on the intersectionality on the

kinsie scale. Yeah, nobody taught me this. Well, I was like, I was, I was lucky because like, when I was a teenager, like, I was getting like, letters from Kathleen Hannah, like, kind of breaking it down. And you toured with litigra, right? Yeah, I was looking at the gravy train Wikipedia, because I liked gravy train, honestly, in high school, because I was into like, litigra and like, electro music. Remember that? Have you heard Aisha erotica? No, I'll send it to you. But it's like, she's like newer. But she totally reminds me of like that whole electro moment. And I was just like, Is that making a comeback? Like, I would hope not like, because it's just there's something so very like, you can't repeat like post 9 11 antics.

Yeah, we won't recapture that feeling. Like, but there's something about that was just really funny. Tigra is the one that like JD Samson was in. Yeah, okay. But JD in now crickets, JD's in crickets now with Roddy from faith no more. Oh, yeah, I remember seeing JD Samson at like Union pool or something. And also seeing the blues blues guy at Union pool. And I was like, Okay, well, this is over. Like that was my first brush of celebrity. And I was like, this is like so depressing in Monday. And that's what life is all about. And the cult of celebrity got even more depressing in Monday. It's like, everybody, it's all like, you know, like when it went from when Jerry Springer went from like a slew of stuff to just kind of like, I don't know, all like,

what's the word? maternity test, like when it used to be like all about just like, you know, what's movies are in or what stars and but now the entertainment has become so overly democratized and just like this sandwich board option, like, all we see now is sex scandal. Like, you essentially can't be famous without a sex scandal. Yeah, yeah, the same story that repeats into infinity now. And so yeah, you have to hire like a PR team to manufacture a sex scandal for you so you can get famous. Yeah, I don't know. It's really like degraded and retarded. I mean, as well that fucking should be it was we had a good run with it. Why should we be entertained ever again? I'm optimistic. I think post pandemic people will want like to have meaningful experiences.

I think I think the fatigue will like will break break on through to the other side. Yeah, if we get tired and bored enough. I don't miss anyone yet. Like I just think I don't know the last couple of years in the Bay, I think especially after like ghost ship happens, and then just slew of shit and bad shit. And it like it just it was just a really depressing and kind of bummerish place. And even as we come out of lockdown, I'm part of me too is like, I think this scene needs another year of lockdown so we can truly miss each other. We can't come back to each other with like open arms. So what are your hopes for for the rest of the year? I guess. Well, I'm like, I'm kind of overwriting about gay slut shit. So I'm doing this new novel.

That's it's a sci fi novel. It's about a family of psychics of black psychics in the rural south who are all that were with each other and it's called The Body Writes a Book. It's going to be my first sci fi book. Cool. Yeah, and then I just I put out a I just put out an EP called White Boy Music. Billy Joe Armstrong from Green Day just reviewed it in Rolling Stone. I read that. Cool. I did 12 rolls. So we're probably gonna do some more recordings. I'm turning since I laid my burn down into a movie or I'm turning it into a movie and people are trying to acquire the rights to 100 Boyfriends to make it a TV show. So that's awesome. Try my best and also still living with five people in communal punk land of Oakland for the rest of my life. Well, thank you for coming

on the show. I love y'all so much. I'm really proud of you. Oh my god. Thank you. You're like you've been working girl. I'm proud of you too. We've come a long way. Also like like congrats like with the baby. Hopefully I'm going to join the parent club one day. I'm still trying but oh I had one last question. Have you ever had sex with a girl like normally not pegging you? No, no, no, like this I had sex with a trans dude who actually referred to it as his pussy and it was like two like two or three years ago and it was like really hot because he was younger and it was the first time anyone was ever really into like that whole like daddy role play thing and he was really into like me being like dad and I was just like oh my god like this is like

blowing my goddamn mind. I'm just like I'm normally mostly like a bottom anyway so me topping is like just like and first of all it's like I just landed on Mars like what is going on and then this fucking added drama of like where I'm like the old dude and I'm just like oh wait like I am the old dude now so that's that's probably the closest I've ever like gotten just because like he is insistent on being like my pussy, my pussy, my pussy. So yeah. That's it, that's it. That was your bye-bye. Anyway everybody should read 100 Boyfriends. We will link it in the description. Thank you for coming on Brontes. I love y'all so much. I'll talk to you soon. Come to New York. Yeah, come to New York. Thanks for giving us hope. We'll see you now. Bye.

Bye. I'll see you soon. Bye.