Red Scare - Bruenig Derangement Syndrome

Episode Date: May 14, 2021

The ladies discuss the recent flareup in the Israel/Palestine conflict, the LA Times

Okay, I'm recording. Hello. Hi. We're back. We're back. Hey Anna. Hi. Another day in the neoliberal war room. How have you been? I'm not gonna lie, I'm a little depressed about the geopolitical situation and the domestic situation. Yeah. Things seem especially bleak. There's a new chapter in the Israel-Palestine conflict. It's really getting you down. Yeah, and gas prices are at an all-time high. Is that true? I think they're at an all-time high, a seven-year high. Okay. So even our crises have kind of a capitalist realism, nostalgia revival edge to them. Yeah. We can't even have any cool new novelty crises. We're literally back to Israel-Palestine and gas prices spiking. We're stuck in a feedback

loop. Yeah, a Fisherian feedback loop. But well, at least this time it's being sort of like amplified through social media activism. Yeah. And there's tons of infographics to look at. And people are really speaking out about it much more than they have in the past. Yeah. The digital intifada. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I think like, I don't know if this is, that's gonna change anything for the better, probably not. Well, Andrew Yang made a statement in support of Israel and then he was confronted by some activists. And then he said that actually, you know, it's complicated and both sides are... Yeah. He said something totally meaningless instead and apologized. Yeah. Yeah. I've had some impact, you know, on forcing Yang into taking a

totally like lukewarm, pointless position. Yeah. I mean, he followed up one like boiler plate stock position with another one. And I like Glenn's article today about AOC kind of condemning chastising Andrew Yang, who's relatively powerless in all of this while not pushing back against the powerful Democrats that actually have some influence over the... And who are vocal supporters of Israel, Pelosi, Biden, all of them. Yeah. So that I really recommend that article. It's on his sub-stack, obviously. I don't know, I'm both an anti-Semite and an Islamophobe, so I figured I'd split the difference. A no-state solution. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, instinctively, I'm pro-Palestine. Yeah, I think it's... Obviously, but I have no, like,

I personally don't care if Israel exists because I'm not Jewish. Yeah. So I really... Obviously, I, you know, it's not complicated for me to be pro-Palestine, but if I really cared about Israel, then my position would be different. Yeah, that's a fair position to have. That's, you know, but for where I'm sitting, it does seem like an apartheid state. Well, yeah, I mean... Completely doing ethnic cleansing, and they totally shouldn't be over there because Palestine was our first. Well, yeah, I mean, the kind of situation in the settlements is, like, outrageous. I, to quote the late great Muammar Qaddafi, I cannot recognize either the Palestinian state nor the Israeli state. Palestinians are idiots,

and Israelis are idiots. I was Googling Qaddafi today because I'm a big fan of his fashion sense. He's my number one. Yeah, he's on your spring lookbook. Yeah. But I feel like this conflict, as someone said recently, has already been settled and, like, not in favor of the Palestinians, you know, unfortunately. Like, Israel is so powerful and so mighty and so bloated with American taxpayer money. Well, that's why when Israelis like Gal Gadot make, like, weepy, weird text posts about how they just want, like, peace and for the conflict to stop, it's like, what they want is for there to not be any Palestinians like that. Yeah, they want it to be out of sight, out of mind. They would love to exterminate Palestine so that there could be peace.

Yes. You know, it's not like they're really advocating for both sides at all. Yeah, so they take a sip of their latte and engage in some good old fashioned both sideism. It's, yeah, it's really despicable. I mean, and the Palestinians are going to continue to be backed into a corner, stopping short of outright genocide because that's bad for optics. But it is kind of like, you know, effectively, like, functionally, a genocidal policy. And to me, and the issue with this, I said, I wasn't going to say anything, but okay, the issue, the issue for me, the biggest issue is that Israel continues to pretend it's the victim when it's really the aggressor like that to me. That's exactly what I said earlier today. It would be, it would be the

ultimate aggressor is masquerading as victims. Yeah. How Jewish of them. Just kidding. But like, it would be honestly, it wouldn't make it any better, but it would be much more honorable and honest if they just came out with it and we're just like, we hate these people. We don't think that they have a claim to this land and let alone should exist and we're going to pulverize them into oblivion. If they just like, stop doing this, like, but they're throwing rocks. And I know I understand the Palestinians are like deploying rockets against Israel's like high tech state of the art. Yeah. Yeah. As do I. That's why I have a Zionist boyfriend.

Just doing some shitty borscht belt humor. Yeah. I don't like that. I just find it dishonest and gross. Like every mainstream news network and every kind of establishment politician being like, well, we have to broker like a two sided piece because, you know, Israel, innocent civilians, they're the victim too. I read the New York Times thing that was doing very both sides. Which was that? I don't know. Just with the one that I read when I Google Israel to like, see what was going on. And then I looked at a bunch of infographics as I said, and then I like, that's how I cooked up my, my perspective. Yeah.

Situation. Yeah. I mean, I listen, I agree with you. I am marginally Jewish and I don't know. Have you ever been to Israel? No, my sister has. Because, you know, the Jews, they go to Israel and they like tell them all this propaganda. Yeah. You know, and they, so they're very attached to it and they like love it and feel like it's their, their homeland. Right. Yeah. My sister at the, when we were, you know, you know, young in our 20, in our early 20s, she did a birthright. I refused to do birthright because I, you were doing BDS. I was doing BDS. I was, because, you know, I feigned moral outrage at the plight of the Palestinians, but really I didn't want to leave my Pakistani boyfriend

that my grandparents thought was Palestinian. So I didn't go to birthright. And I don't really regret it or not regret it either way. It seems nice there. I mean, it seems like a great way to meet guys. But yeah, no, Israel is just acting like a BPD art hoe, like cooking up all these allegations when they're actually the ones sending like the completely aggressive signals. And yeah, that, that's very frustrating because it, you know, the Israel is supposed to be the land not only of Jews, but of Jews who uncocked themselves and became openly agro and militaristic. And they have to like, do this like damage to have a homeland. Yeah, I agree with that. I think what makes the Jews, the Jews is their rootless cosmopolitanism. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. That's it. So great about them. Yeah. And if they, they want to have a homeland, I think like Miami is a perfectly great one, as I've said many times, they're going to have to fight with the Cubans for that stretch of land, but the Cubans are notoriously pro-Israel. So I think it could work out in the end. Yeah, I don't know. I think like the other thing that repulsed me, of course, is like the moral posturing from the American left, especially American Jewish leftists who are like out there giving themselves like a second circumcision, you know, to play up to people who would like put their head on a spike. And I'm not, I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm talking about like progressives. And I mean, they feel, I don't know, I feel like

I feel like they feel implored to say something. Well, yeah, I will say that there's, I think it's very powerful when Jews speak out against the state of Israel, because I think it pushes back on this very insidious myth that any critique of Israel is anti-Semitic, that anti-Zionism equals anti-Semitism. We all know that's not true, even me. But I just, I don't like, you know, I think you can do that in a less self abnegating and self effacing way. Like you don't have to pander to people. And I think like it's actually more powerful if you say, if you come from a place of pride and dignity. And I think like, you know, American leftist Jews should have some pride and dignity. The Palestinians sure do, you know. But that's a minor issue, I think,

in the larger scope of things. Of course, yeah. And I think the Palestinians will persevere at the end, even at a great cost. They're so brave and strong, truly. It's just that they, you know, they're very incredibly noble people. Well, I don't even, I don't know that even if they're noble, I just think that they have the upper hand because, you know, given their utter lack and their utter want presently, they have something that Israel will never have, which is like a fear of God, and a willingness to fight in the face of like insurmountable odds. And, you know, no high tech weapon system can possibly be a match for that, even if it like burns them all to the ground. I mean, but I feel the same way about Armenians versus Azeris. And like, I'm, you know, again,

a marginal Jew, I have family in Israel. I don't think that Israel should be destroyed or, you know, not destroyed, repossessed or whatever, because again, you, but we have to deal with present conditions. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's sad. It's shitty. But I feel like, what can you do? Don't you think? I don't know. Well, that's the thing. That's why the moral posturing by the left bothers me, because Palestinians are like the trans black lives of geopolitics, you know, like it's, it's conflict that doesn't really touch anybody outside of the totally legitimate reason that this is a lot of American taxpayer money is going to funding. We just gave them like three mil for COVID relief or something. Yeah. I mean,

it's outrageous. And I think Glenn is right in pointing out the perverse and glaring reality that like, you know, Israelis are getting certain benefits on our dime that Americans don't have. So yeah, yeah, right. That's really bothersome. Mm-hmm. Why is Israel so powerful? That I don't know. I'm going to have to watch a Vox explainer. I'm going to have to watch videos on the, on the dark web to the bottom of that one. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I will say, we weren't going to get into it. Yeah, we're going to just, you know, yeah, I mean, I will, I will say that I think Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is a, is a great stain on the Jewish people. And Israel's failure to recognize the Armenians is

a lesser stain, but also a substantial one. Amen. So Jews do better, I guess. Yeah, I second that for sure. Do better. Anyway, sorry. So we're drinking wine. I'm drinking more wine because I'm almost stressed out. Yeah. Wait, why are you stressed out? No, I'm not. It's just, it is, it's, yeah, it is stressful to like, all the rockets and the horrible warfare and everything. Yeah. No, it's really depressing. Yeah. It is incredibly depressing. Yeah. I have like some minor personal stake in it. And I guess it makes me feel really down, not as down as the Karabakh stuff, but still it's, you know, shitty to wake up to. So yeah, I guess we can move on to some, some lighter fare. Right. Unless you have.

No, no, no, please. What else is on the docket today? Well, in heavier fare. Yeah. There was an article. Okay, I see what you did there. There was an article in the LA Times about called Fat Shaming, BMI and alienation COVID-19 brought new stigma to large sized people, which was about the burgeoning fat acceptance movements, being at odds with a lot of the scientific and medical research done around obesity being a disease and COVID-19 specifically, just wreaking havoc on the bodies of obese people. Yeah. What did you think of that article? I don't know, I sent you that sentence. I'll pull up that sentence that I just thought like, again, my new tip is interpreting things that would ordinarily like be alarming or

outraging as conceptual art. Yeah, you've got like a sort of a distance to it. Yeah, I'm very zen right now. I'm like, like all Jews, I'm going to become a Buddhist to expiate my guilt for all the people I fucked over. The sentence was like really incredible. Osborne is just the second black person to head NAFA in the group's 52 year history. The organization was founded by a straight white man angry about how his large bodied Jewish wife was treated because of her size. Yes. That sentence felt a little anti-Semitic because like, what is her being Jewish with anything? Well, it's saying that, you know, there haven't been a lot of people of color at the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance is what the... That's the name of the

organization. That's what NAFA stands for. I just like every time I read one of these sentences, I just like picture like Will Ferrell parachuting in and do it's like a skit, you know? Right. And there's another one called the Fat Legal Advocacy Rights and Education Project, which is Flair for short. Which is really unbranded because obesity is chronic inflammation, like literally like flaring up. Sorry. I mean, yeah, this article is, it's true that fat people are discriminated against 100%. And definitely they talk about various studies they had done showing that like doctors are less enthusiastic about treating overweight people and that they sort of like look down on them for making like poor life choices. People are fat for a variety of reasons

that the doctors don't always take into account and, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that kind of the spin. You know, yeah, a lot of fat activists, which also I'm sorry, imagine being a fat activist and not just losing weight. Like it seems much harder to be, I mean, I guess it's very like the barriers to entry to being an activist or like you or I could literally become like a frail activist or whatever. I kind of feel like a frail activist, honestly, because like all for all of this like body positivity. Yeah. I feel like when I practice it, I get called like pro-anna or you know, if I try to talk on my food Twitter about my you know, my weight or my lifestyle, I get totally lambasted for for being pro-anterexia.

Yeah. What about wave body positivity? Yeah. Especially in this like thick posit, you know. Yeah. In this age where anyone's identity goes. Exactly. That's so hard to be thin and white with a large disposable income. Well, the joke I texted you, I'll just repeat it. Yeah. Just do it. I said a fat acceptance movement. Why didn't they, why didn't they call it the BL team? I wish we had, I wish we had like one of those little drum tracks. Because they're, they be eating sandwiches. Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, yeah, again, this is one of those issues where like the radical activism is

marching in lockstep with existing economic processes. Like, you know, you don't, you don't need a fat acceptance movement because 70% of American adults, as this article points out, are already overweight or obese. Right. Like fat has been accepted. But somehow they're still discriminated against as a majority. Yeah. They're the silent majority. They're like Israel. Yeah. They're like the Palestinians of America, fat people. They were just herded into the Gaza Strip like environment of a Popeyes. Right. But for them to take Umbridge with like, I don't know, medicine.

Yeah. Basically advising them to lose weight. Yeah. It's totally okay for all, for the rest of us to, to take Umbridge and like not believe in vaccines or anything. But when fat people do it, yeah, that really crosses the line for me. I'm fully, I got my second back the other day, by the way. So that we can't get deep platform for being anti-vax. No, I'm not anti-vax also. By the way, if somebody held a gun to my head, I would get the vax. Even if they just made your life marginally easier, I bet you would get the vax. Yeah. Like if I was, you know, if I couldn't travel or something,

Exactly. I'd get, if a hot Palestinian guy held a gun to my head. If you had to get like a test, if you had to get like tested before you boarded a plane and tested when you landed, I bet you would just get the vax. Yeah. Of course I would. I'm not that high and mighty. I'm just trying to, I'm trying to like kind of kick the can down the road as long as I can. So that in the event that I have like Irish twins or something that I can avoid any issues, but whatever I mean. You think it'll make you sterile?

No, I don't think it'll make me sterile at all. I think like that's totally ridiculous and far fetched, but I think that just like there's so little information about the effects. Yeah, there's no way to know either. And I understand the flip side argument that there's also very little information, like long-term studies on COVID or whatever. Yeah. But we probably weren't going to get COVID. Yeah. Or we got it already and it seems fine. Yeah. No more, no less retarded than usual.

Yeah. But yeah, no, it's truly fat. So these fat activists basically claim there's a bias among medical providers against overweight and obese people, which is true. And they claim that it kind of skews the data on obesity and COVID, which may be true. But I think like the spin I would put on that is that the bias is not really, again, it's not a moral one. It's an economic one because these medical providers are part of the medical, the healthcare industry, and they're just avoiding liability. They're minimizing liability. Like they don't want to be sued.

Right. And they don't want to have kind of like a preventable death on their hand. So they would rather just like not treat fat people instead of like, you know, treat them and have them die on the table. Well, so the article ends with this quote from this woman who the biologist read it. She put off being vaccinated because she was terrified of leaving the apartment. She has not taken public transportation more than a year. Righteous services are too expensive. She does not drive.

No matter what she has gone to the doctor for, she said her physician would prescribe the same thing weight loss. She fears being diagnosed with COVID-19 and having to go to a hospital. Are they going to give me the same treatment as a skinny person or even a white person? Cruz asks, well, they have things that accommodate me a larger robe, seats without arms. Will the bed be comfortable? These are the things we have to think about as larger people, the things she said that felt like quote, a punishment for being fat. And that's incredibly sad. And like she clearly has developed some kind of like agoraphobia also due to being obese. Yeah. Well, as a fat person, you're punished twice.

It's kind of like the line. I mean, it's not a punishment. It's just, it's like when you deviate from the norm, you are punished by it, by like the circumstances of life, you know, but also, I mean, to the doctors who continually prescribe her weight loss, even when they, you know, maybe they could be treating her for other things. I do think that they are doing their like due diligence as doctors and giving her sound medical advice. Yeah. I mean, unlike COVID or COVID vaccines or even birth control, I feel like there's plenty of evidence, well documented evidence that being overweight

does cause that, you know, bodily inflammation and system failure. I'm sure that there are outliers of like overweight people who are healthy. Yeah. Well, that's what the fat acceptance movement is sort of advocating for, is that you can be healthy at any size. Yeah, but you can't. But I don't think that's a great rule of thumb. Yeah. It's a to organize. I don't think that's a good principle to be organizing around personally. Yeah. And I think, yeah, the bigger issue is that like, you know, I'm really like not interested in like fat shaming in terms of like frown, you know, looking down upon people for their

personal choices. But of course, this is, you know, an epidemic of like late, like imperial decadence. It really is. It's not good to have kind of a captive population of overweight people who are medical perma clients. Well, yeah. And I think like the COVID thing is especially it's also inter-sectional. Yeah. Because people in like poor communities don't often just don't have access to food. Yeah. Or healthcare. Or healthcare, exactly. Yeah. And I, but it's, you know, I think the COVID thing is especially disturbing because it's also created a captive population of like agoraphobics, essentially. And what was that statistic? I mean, I don't know how true any of these statistics are, but it was, I saw statistics that something like 40%

of millennials had put on weight during the lockdown. Yeah. I mean, that's horrifying. Well, how much weight was put on weight? Yeah. I mean, it depends on like, but I'm sure some people really kind of spiraled and it's not a negligible number. I lost weight. Good for you. I just want to put on record that I would have lost weight if I hadn't come pregnant, but I gained my 30 pounds fair and square. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it just, that's like, I'm very proud of you. I think you're a brave, into Fata Jihadi against the obesity epidemic. I didn't mean to, I mean, I lost too much weight at a certain point. Like last summer, I think I was really looking like gone. It was the stress to like, I wasn't like trying to lose weight. Be careful. You're going

to piss on me. I feel like Liz Brune, she's happy she had a baby. I mean, it's, it's not, I don't know. She just like lost weight casually without even trying. Casual. It's like, I get get anxious and then like my throat closes up and then I don't feel like eating. Yeah. Like tweak out all day and like, it's not health. I'm not like bragging. I'm really not bragging. Well, you know, winning the genetic lottery really comes down to the question of whether you're one of those people who eats when they're stressed versus one of those people who loses their appetite. Yeah. Yeah. And if you're the latter, it's smooth sailing because you can't, you know, you don't, technically it's not an eating disorder. So people can't come down on you for that. Yeah. Contrary to popular

really, if I'm not anorexic, I want to be like healthy and hot. Yeah. Maybe a little tiny bit underway. Just like a little bit, you know? Yeah. Like how, like what's a little bit like 10% percent? I think, I think being a little underway is probably like, I should be 115. I like to be like 110. Yeah. Okay. You know, and then 113. 113, you know, just like 110 to 115. I like to be like in that zone. Yeah. Whatever. I think this is a perfectly acceptable way for, no, it's fine. It's a perfectly acceptable way. I think like Americans also. For my body type. Yeah. Yeah. You're very a slender boned. Yeah. Like a bird. Yeah. Yeah. I'm medium boned and I like to be around that weight too. And it's like, I think the American kind of BMI tables are a little skewed in the

caloric tables. They're skewed all over the place too. Yeah. But no, I feel, I feel for obese people. I feel for all people, believe it or not, including Palestinians because it is an awful situation and it's probably very frightening and anxiety inducing situation to like not be able to move around no pun intended because you might be at a higher risk for complications from COVID. But, you know, as far as I'm concerned, this is- And people treat you with contempt because people do. Yeah. I think, I think people do. I think people really do hate fat people, not as much as fat people hate themselves, by the way, but they do. But again, I will maintain- I don't for the record. Yeah. I mean, I don't hate anybody. It takes too much energy and I

don't really have those calories to expend. But the, I think that like the healthcare industry, again, it's really not about personal animus or personal hatred. It's about, you know, again, minimizing liability, maximizing profit. Right. A doctor has to tell you to lose weight. That's his job. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's, it's like when you go to the doctor, yeah, there's like a protocol of things that they do that- That's how they tell you to quit smoking. Yeah, always. Even though they know it's really cool and I only do it sometimes. Or like get the flu vaccine. There's like, you know, certain talking points that they have to hit with you. Yeah. That's like that, that are basically unexamined at this point, you know,

because everybody's been doing it for so long. But like, you know, an interesting story about speaking of vaccines is, you know, when I had my baby, bless you, and I was in the hospital, they kept pushing a happy vaccine, which I thought was a little weird and suspect because he was so young and it seems weird to, you know, prick a tiny arm like that. And so I opted to do it like at the two month mark when it's standard, you know? And they were very pushy about it. And I kind of did some research and asked my pediatrician and my midwives who were affiliated with a different hospital, why that was. And it turns out that there was one case in New York City, or maybe it was in New York state of a woman who was a Hep B sufferer and she transmitted it to

her kid. So they're covering their asses basically, because they don't want another situation like that. But it's not because it's medically necessary for, you know, a day old child to get a vaccine. Wouldn't they have just shouldn't they just test you for Hep B? Yeah, I don't know. But I guess you could like pick it up. Yeah. I mean, but it's a weird, you know, I think like medicine in general in America going to the doctor. Yeah. And even if you can fit in the seeds. Yeah. But I mean, that's true. Yeah. And also the beds are never comfortable even if you're skinny. But yeah, surely like air travel as well. It must be hell if you're, you know, yeah. And that's deviation from a norm. Like, yeah, but there's only so much

accommodating we can sort of do. There's just only so much real estate in the United States. It's New York City, baby. You better slim down because we don't have the room. But as far as I'm concerned, this is like a healthcare crisis, right? No, absolutely. I don't think like, you know, it's horrible that we have a population of overweight and obese people, not because they're horrible people, but because their health outcomes are worse on the whole. Yeah. That's ridiculous. I know. Anyway, but I guess, yeah, my, I don't know, the, I take some umbrage with radicals and activists trying to turn this into like a woke issue.

Right. Making it, I mean, it's incredibly narcissistic. It's, it's all about sort of their feelings about experiencing fat phobia. Yeah. Rather than like the material reality of being fat in the world and like biologically. Yeah. I mean, I think this is really what happens when kind of like social and political issues become like questions of morality rather than questions of like material factors, like economics or like health or something like that. Yeah. So it becomes a question of like, you know, your personal moral standing on an issue. And well, the language policing of like piecing person of size or like large sized person. It seems like that's like a joke. Yeah. You know, well, if you have an issue with the word fat,

to me, fat is also, it's, it's descriptive. It's a neutral word. It's a neutral word. And if you have a problem being called fat, it's because of your own internalized fat phobia. Yeah. Your own like fragile ego. I mean, it's weird. I like there's, it is like a purely, purely descriptive word. But the seeing that, you know, like we kind of like unquestioningly, unquestioningly accept terms like people of color, which sound always to me a little bit off and bland and bureaucratic. Yeah, definitely. But because we're talking about kind of like a racial category and not like a physical one, you know, we kind of accept them. But it, but words like large sized person or person of size really make you realize how

bizarre and derange this language is. I know I'm serious. And like, how much you're willing to adapt and assimilate totally pathological, like language. And the scary thing about that, I think, is, um, you know, it seems comical and absurd to us now. And you think like, Oh, it'll never stick. But I feel like whatever the crazy trend is right now will be the norm, you know, five years from now. You think you think fat phobia is going to take off? Well, I don't know. I don't know specifically like that issue, but a lot of like crazy shit that's going on right now that we are like, Oh, well, it's confined to the campus or it's confined to Twitter. I think really will spill over. Yeah, I think it'll become a sorting mechanism to really kind of sort the elites and the

pros, like the deplorables totally. I mean, that's my feeling about it. Like, I won't get into it because it's like a boring topic. But I think it'll like really kind of like, it'll create a moral wedge between kind of the overclass and the underclass. My feeling on it is that they'll that as these sort of things begin to spill out of Twitter, they'll become increasingly sort of incoherent. Yeah. I mean, a large, I mean, most people, I think if you polled most people, fat people included who weren't on social media and really what do you think about the term person of size, they would laugh at you. Yeah, of course. Like, if you ask them like fat Italian or fat black guy, like in New York, what they thought as they were coming out of their favorite like sub

spot, they would laugh at you. Yeah. I mean, it's also incredibly feminized. Yeah, that acceptance movement. It's like, obviously, fat guys are not, are not spearheading these programs and campaigns. It's all except for that guy who has a fat Jewish wife. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Yeah. And we thought curvy was quaint. Remember when fat people were jumping on the curvy bandwagon and mass curvy should come back. Yeah. But it should refer to women of all sizes who have an extreme hourglass shape, not apple shaped people who are waste to hit waste to hit break. That's like, like Billie Eilish is curvy, not to go back to last week. Yeah, definitely. Anyway. No, but it's true. You bring up a really good point that this is just another

expression of BPD society and that it's women leading the charge. You know, women are passionate about social justice, that sort of thing. Yeah, they, they really are as well-earned and marketing. Yeah. And shopping and photoshopping. Yeah. Fucking infographics. Oh, God. Speaking of overweight people, should we talk about Elon? Oh, yes. Right. I forgot that that was on the docket. Yeah, unfortunately. I watched it live on Saturday night. And yeah, it was, I mean, I wasn't expecting it to be good. And in a way, it's a good kind of like death knell for SNL that I'm a little known factor. On me, I used to be really into SNL when I was like a tween. Yeah, me too. It was totally funny back then. I like the Will Ferrell

era was like major for me. But I got into like, I came to New York when I was like 13 and visited 30 Rockefeller and I got a t-shirt that had the original cast on it. And I like would read books about like SNL history. And I like had pictures of like John Belushi, like in this, like in my binder at school and stuff. I like, I've been a fan of Saturday Night Live. And I believe in it as like a cultural institution. Yeah, it has been funny, obviously, for a long, long time. Yeah, me too. But do you have like that kind of secret wish that it that, you know, given that things are cyclical, that it might rebound maybe a new golden age? Yeah. Or do you think it's like over and it's time we discard it? No, I don't think we can discard it. I think it's here to stay like the

Israel Palestine. It's just it's gonna it's institution. Yeah, it's timeless. You know, it's going to go on and it'll like kind of take form and maybe it'll become more reflective. I mean, it is reflective of the times in that it totally sucks. Yeah, you know, but it's it's something that you've talked about before, like how under Trump sort of our reality became increasingly hilarious and like avant garde and aestheticized in this way that like surpassed contemporary art and comedy and like, yeah, these things that couldn't really like keep they can't compete. What they're attempting to like satirize or whatever. And having you on musk. Yeah, who's just like, I, I was wondering, I was thinking to myself if I like, didn't like him and

didn't respect him, or if I didn't respect him but liked him, or if I or with the other variant of that. And I was like, I guess I like, I totally don't respect him and think he sucks, but I kind of like him because he's such a like, I don't truly like him because he's like a devious, annoying, nerdy billionaire who like inspires my most like, bullish, like instincts. But I kind of like him because he's like a stupid slob who like has been hoisted onto the world stage or whatever. He's, he's innocent in a way. Because he's autistic. Yeah. Yeah. And him, his like Aspergy, them trying to kind of utilize his Aspergeness in the best way was a disaster to watch. Him reading awkwardly from the teleprompter, like I'm making history as the first person with Aspergers

to host SNL, or at least the first person who admits they have Aspergers, I can't do this. I'm not going to do a South African accent. It's such a weird accent. It's not even South African. Wait, what is it? I mean, it is, but it's he's the way he speaks is weirder than just that. Yeah. So they're freaky. I like, I hate, I hate his accent. His mom, his deranged, blood-sucking mother came out at his stage mom. So bizarre. Yeah. I found the whole cold open with everyone's moms to be unpleasant. Yeah. I, I almost there's a brief moment where I was watching this like in my like usual like sleep deprived arranged date. And there is like a moment where I thought that Elon and his mom were going to French kiss when they kind of went in for a hug. And I was like,

wait, that would be truly groundbreaking and avant garde. He can do it. He's autistic and a billionaire. People would, he should make out with his mom on TV. Yeah, that would be, yeah, that would be funny. May, but you got to turn into mad TV for that type of. Yeah, that's true. Oh God, I used to love mad TV. Mad TV was dope. Lowered expectations. Will Sasso, total one on the binary. I love that guy. Definitely. Harry Spears. Shout out fat acceptance. Yeah. No, I just, here's the thing that I don't, I guess the thing that I don't get about Elon is why he's trying to be like a famous celebrity and like public figure that I don't understand, because he's so rich. Like I thought like the whole point of being filthy rich is being able to

opt out of being in the public eye. It's cause he's kind of stupid. He doesn't realize that. Yeah. He's like dumb. He's fundamentally like a dumb slob. He's a smart dumb guy. Exactly. And Joe Rogan is a dumb, smart guy. I think. No, switch it. Okay. Yeah, Joe Rogan is a smart dumb guy. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Is that what you said? I don't, whatever. Yeah. And Elon is a dumb, smart guy. Exactly. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. He's fundamentally kind of dumb. Yeah. And he just like craves. The disturbing thing for me is like one of the features of like modernity or whatever is that like people have realized that money doesn't equal power on some level. Or like, because they have like, oh, you know, it does equal power in the sense that you

could, you know, crush your adversaries and stuff like that. But like, you know, people don't care about you if you're rich unless you're also visible. There's things money can't buy. Yeah. And maybe goodwill is one of them because people really seem to hate Elon Musk. Yeah. But on that level, there's going to like, you're going to have like half the people are going to hate you and half the people are going to think like you're dope. You think people think he's dope. Yeah. I'm sure some like troglodytes do some like stupid like tech pros totally think he's dope. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I mean, totally. The other thing is I don't get how grimes suffers the mass of humiliation of being because she's a baby. She doesn't understand. Yeah. They're not like

they don't have that into intuitive kind of taste thing. Yeah. But yeah, this was like this whole thing. And by the way, SNL sucks. It's not it wasn't at all Elon's fault that this episode was as shitty and anticlimactic as all of the recent previous ones. Of course. Like he was just, you know, doing his job. But like, I don't know, like what he was hoping to accomplish with that, like kind of also laundering his reputation as like a positive and wholesome figure. Right. He doesn't strike me, you know, as particularly sinister either. He's like the picture of the banality of evil in a way because there's nothing like overtly kind of like disturbing or nefarious about him in the way that there is with Jeff Bezos. He's kind of simple and like vacant. Exactly. Yeah,

which is not to say that he's not capable of like incredible machinations or whatever. I do like the Tesla. I've sat in a Tesla before. Yeah, it was like I liked sitting in the Tesla. It was a little low to the ground. But yeah, I've been in one once. I really didn't like it, but it was probably my company. Oh yeah. My love task. It was some like financier. Okay. Yeah. Are you escorting? No, no, no. Not formally. I'm not a prostitute. No, I know. People give me shit for that too. For having a high body count and like being a slut, whatever. It's 2021. I know. Yeah. It's fine. I never had sex for money or like to curry personal favors or anything like that. Yeah. Well, I think people again, like I've said it before and I'll say it again,

people think they're mad at certain women for having sex or sucking dick. Or having babies. Or yeah, well, we'll get to that. But they think that they're mad at you because you like sucked your way to the top or whatever. But really they're mad at you. I mean, this is like the thing with Lana Del Rey, right? It's like probably actually she didn't have to suck anybody off. Yeah. I think she flirted with like the idea of it. It's much more upsetting to learn that like people you hate didn't have to do sexual favors. Like once you know that they did, you can dismiss them. Personal charm will take you far. Yeah. You never like, here's the thing that like feminists don't understand. It's very, it's very good to have

a kind of a sense of like whatever male superior is interested in you. You don't even have to fuck them. You can just tease them a little. It really works. It really does. It makes everybody's life easier and more pleasurable. Anyway, should we talk about Braynick gate? Yeah, do you have any other thoughts on Saturday Night Live? Did you watch the zoomer sketch? No, I watched the chat and space sketch. Was that one of them? Yeah, that was one of their like digital shorts with Pete Davidson. He was used very sparingly in a lot of like digital content, I think, because they could really kind of rain him in and get him to all of like the one note of Elon's comedy was like awkward guy. He's like Aspergan and that's

really all he can do. Yeah. Um, so he was just a poor choice for a guest in that way. I wouldn't have invited him on honestly, but yeah, it was so weird. It sounds like they were like running out of options. Yeah. Maybe Bono can host it. Yeah, they, they should ask you. I was going to ask you if they given all the trash talk we've indulged and if they, if SNL came to you and asked me, you know, six months a year from now and they were like, Dasha, would you, would you host? Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Of course. It would be, it would be awesome. I would be honored. I used to practice my SNL monologue when I was like a little kid. That's really cute. And the mirror and stuff. And it's been, yeah, I've like wanted to host us over a long time

weirdly, but I don't think I ever will. Though who knows if Elon can do it. Never say never. Yeah. And then, oh yeah, I watched the Mario courtroom one. Yeah. That one was really bad, but I have to say he did an adequate and passable Italian accent. So good for him. He did okay. Yeah, it's Mario. Yeah. I just, I don't know. I think I kind of laughed a couple of times during that one because like the ambient was hitting. Yeah. I may have two because that one was like, it wasn't like punching up or down. It was like punching nowhere. Like it was like kind of untethered from reality and therefore it's like a decent skit, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. Apparently his crypto tanked afterwards, his dogecoin. Oh yeah. I hated that joke that

Maymusk made about the Mother's Day gift being dogecoin. Like all the jokes are so corny and predictable. It was almost like a Norm McDonald monologue, but like minus the ironic distance. I know. I really love Norm. We should actually get him on the phone. Yeah, we should ask him. He might do it. He has nothing going on. He'd probably do it. Yeah. He would have been a good guest for this one, but whatever. He's probably not allowed to talk about his time on SNL. Why not? He's like a free agent. Allegedly, he was fired for making too many RJ Simpson jokes. Oh, nice. Wait, that's really hot. Yeah. I'll offer to suck him off.

Live from New York. It's red, scare him off, guys. I would love to do a live show. Ordinarily, I'm not a fan of live shows because I'm like a shy and receding person, but COVID has been so... I know. We've had fun at the live shows. Maybe we will soon. Yeah, it would be fun. I'm optimistic. I mean, yeah, I enjoyed doing them. No, I know, but you're like more of a performer than I am. I really like to strut my stuff on the big stage. You're great though.

No, I'm fine. I land on my feet, but I'm like very nervous beforehand. I mean, I'm sure you are too. It's not like the most pleasant experience to go out on a stage. Right. But the roar of the crowd. Yeah, the roar of the crowd. Yeah, they're like, get the fuck off the stage. But I'm nostalgic for it because we haven't done one in such a long time. The reason I'm bringing this up is because I'm trying to manifest it with God, you see. Yes, that's exactly. That's why I'm talking about my as a hosting appearance. Well, I was so desperate to go to the movies the other day. I went to go see...

Because I moved right by film form. I went to go see State Funeral, that like two hour long documentary about Stalin's funeral because it's the only thing. I haven't heard of this. This sounds interesting. I mean, it kind of isn't. It's really, I mean, it is kind of relaxing because it's really long and drawn out. It's interesting. You would probably, I mean, not that you have like, you have a baby, so you don't have time to go watch a documentary about Stalin's funeral. But it really makes you, it was so boring that it made you feel like you were in the Soviet Union, which was interesting. Nice. Yeah.

You know, I was like, wow, this is so drawn on and endless. Yeah, it just slowly does off. Yeah, I took a little nap. I woke up. It was like, it's interesting to see, it's all like real footage from the 50s or whatever. And it's all the Slavic faces are nice to see. And yeah, it has, it's well, it's well made. Slavic Khadir or Morda. Morda. Yeah. Like people crying and stuff and all the transmissions about like what a great leader Stalin was and

like, Samy Luchy Vosyomir. Yeah. Kak my stradaim. Yeah, no, I love, I love all those, all the kind of like, all the like the stories from Stalin's deathbed where he was like suffocating, like choking to death and people like prematurely going like, you know, I want his spot and then him like choking back up, like taking another breath. Well, death of Stalin is the superior Stalin's death movie, definitely.

I don't even, I haven't seen it. Oh my God, with Steve Buscemi. No, I haven't seen it. Oh my God, you have to watch it. Wait, who plays Beria? Like Bob Hoskins or something? It came out in like 2018. Wait, who does Steve Buscemi play?

You should watch it. Death of Stalin. We can move on to Brunette Gate, but I'm gonna just. Google that shit. Yeah, Brunette Gate. Who does Steve Buscemi play though? I'm like very curious. Crew chef.

Oh, okay. Beria is played by Simon Russell Beal. Jeffrey Tambur plays Malinkov. It's like British. Yeah. Uh, it's like was produced, it's like made in the UK. So it's got like British actors in it. But, um, Buscemi's really good in it.

You'll like it. It's really funny. Yeah. It's like exactly what you were describing where he's like reanimating and like. Yeah. And people are just like. Shitting on the floor and stuff. Yeah, they're like waiting for him to die with bated breath.

Um, anyway, Brunette Gate. Brunette, yeah. I say Brunette. Brunette. I should probably ask. I think, I don't know. Brunette Gate. Brunette Gate.

Friend of the pod and former guest. Liz Brunette. One of our first guests, Liz Brunette, wrote an op-ed for the New York Times. That was called, do you have the title? I do. It's called, I became a mother at 25 and I'm not sorry. I didn't wait.

Thought. Which was uh. Well, thoughts on the piece. Yeah. I thought the piece was wonderful. I thought it was very touching and I thought it was well written. Yes. And it articulated, um, interesting information about fertility trends in America and like wrapped

it up nicely with like her personal experiences that were like touching. Yeah. Um, but I, um, I didn't read it until I saw people really like shitting their pants about it and it really seemed like it triggered people a lot. Yeah. I mean, to me, like, I don't mean this is in an insulting way, but it was really like a non-story. I think it was a perfectly fine and unremarkable article like that.

That was well written and thoughtful. I mean, unremarkable, not as in bad, but as in like normal. Yeah. Um, she, she talks about how, um, uh, how all the conservative cat or walling over like the push for subsidized childcare, um, is weird and because she talks about basically how, you know, conservatives are always going on about the country's declining birth rates, et cetera, but they, um, hate the thought of subsidizing policies that would make it more viable for people.

Yeah. To give birth and therefore raise the birth rate. Right. And she goes into the kind of reg, um, racial and educational and location based in class demographics of different groups of birthing people, we're calling them now chest feeders. People of reproductive experience. And yeah. And I think she touches on the fact, the most important part of it, I think she touches

on the fact that she, you know, is unclear or it is unclear whether it's a pragmatic decision or, or kind of like a, um, kind of selfish personal decision driving these delays. Not to have, not to have children. Yeah. Which is probably a mixture of both. I think. Yeah. It can be selfish and pragmatic.

Yeah. I mean, and as she points out, um, in her home state of Texas, the median age of, um, women having their first child is like 25.7 or something. Yeah. And so she's not even like that exceptionally young of a mother. Yes. And to me, this piece really felt kind of like a foil to a lot of like op-eds and personal essays that get published periodically about women who are like either

happy that they had an abortion or like had children and like regretted it or like, you know, yeah, there's plenty of like people voicing their like weird taste and satisfaction, yeah, like personal experiences and for Liz to articulate a very like normal and wholesome and like edifying one and for people to react with such a vitriol really made me feel like Twitter is just crazy far gone. Well, okay. Yeah. And, and, and the thing is like, she wasn't being a condescending little bitch and rubbing

it in that she was so young when she gave birth, like the, the, the title or, or kind of the way that the piece was billed is a little bit of a misrepresentation of what it really is. And I actually like commend her for being open about kind of the alienation and ambivalence you feel when you have a kid, because it's very lonely and alienating, like you're surrounded by people who want to help, but they can't help meaningfully. And like, you know, I want, I would say that a lot of the backlash to this piece is truly like unfounded and disingenuous and based in the, in like the worst, most catty, most craven female social politics, like they're just jealous. Because I mean, like, let's face it, Liz Bruyne is a beautiful young mother who seems very devoted

to her children and also has a very successful career. So she has it all and, you know, they're just jealous or that's how it looks. But I would say also the problem there is that no one actually has it all. And I think like, you know, I'll get into this, I have a lot to say about this piece and the reaction to it. But I think that you can, like if you read the between the lines of this piece, you can see that Liz is articulating some very serious anxieties and insecurities she has about her position in the world. How so? I mean, I think that like, it's very hard to negotiate, you know, and I don't want a dog on Liz because I do want to say that she was incredibly like helpful and supportive to me, like the outfit that the baby wore coming back from the hospital came

from Liz. She sent me a really sweet care package that was like, very like useful and thoughtful because she's been through it and, you know, was kind of like there for me when she doesn't really know me and doesn't have to be, you know. And I think like, I don't think that she'll take this the wrong way, but I think that there is a fundamental incompatibility in being a mother and being a Christian with being like a public figure and a public figure who I think has some role in, you know, like you, like I think all of us are basically, you know, complicit to some extent in sexualizing ourselves on the internet. And she's negotiating a very delicate balance of being kind of like, I mean, she's not an e-girl by any means, but she is like a young attractive woman in the public eye.

She has a lot of simps and she is attractive. Yeah. Yeah. But that's, you know, that is really an impossible position. I know it's like white girl problems, but you can't, you can't be like, you know, navigating. Yeah. And I think like people are mad at her very often for, for reasons that the, you know, they think they're mad at her for one reason, but they're really mad at her for kind of like other reasons. Triggers. Yeah. I think the, yeah, people are triggered in a larger way by her sort of like idealic life. Yeah. And her public facing persona, as you said. Yeah. But I guarantee you, and this is like, again, no judgment on Liz and not an insult to her, but I guarantee you her private life is nothing like her public

image. I mean, it is to some extent, but it deviates. I mean, like having kids is very consuming and frustrating experience. It really is. Yeah. It definitely seems like it socks a little bit. Yeah. It's not. Yeah. And I think like that's sort of, I mean, the thing is that as I've said before, like I think it's very dehumanizing to be jealous of people. Like all of us have feelings of jealousy sometimes, but it, the best policy is when you start having them, you should try your hardest to not entertain them because you never know what somebody's life is like, you know, and, you know, again, you don't, but people can't even own up to being jealous of her. That's the problem. Yeah. I mean, they just, they very clearly are. Yeah. But yeah.

Um, there's a lot of like kind of issues with this piece. I mean, number one, as you pointed out, you know, having kids at 25 is not that young, right? My mom had me when she was 21. Yeah, exactly. My mom had me when she was like 31 and she was on the very old side in the Soviet Union. Even my parents were like the last of their friends, I think, to have kids. Yeah. Well, yeah, my dad was 24. My mom was 21. Yeah. They're like, that's very young for now. But yeah, for in back then, I think it was the norm. 25 is young for the media class in which we all orbit. It's not very young for the rest of the world. And Liz, by the way, acknowledges this in her piece. Yeah. Or the country. Yeah. The middle of median age is like 26 or something. Yeah,

but it's understandable how that alone might come off as condescending to people who, as most people on social media, do now only read the headline, you know? Of course. Yeah. Because I doubt a lot of these people who read the piece. Or they read it in bad faith. Yeah. The other second thing is like, you can't be that shocked that this piece generated backlash because I think the New York Times is in the business of generating backlash. And I think they hired Liz knowing full well that she would generate backlash for them. Right. And everybody knows this is like part of the package. Well, she went to the Atlantic today. Oh, yeah. Well, good for her. Good for her. Yeah. No, the title was misleading and like designed sort of to,

to trigger people, yeah, I think, especially which also the if they had read the piece or had read it in good faith, the big point she makes, yeah, is that it's like there's there's diminishing birth rates because people either can't afford to or like are not partnering in viable ways. And there's like, there's real social causes for why people aren't reproducing as much as they ought to be. But all of the like anti natalist kind of projection and bolstering that happens around that is just justifying the economically precarious situations. Yeah, people are already in. Yeah. I mean, again, it's, it's another instance of radical posturing, marching and lockstep. Again, it's always, I mean, like 10 times out of 10, that's

what it is. And then, you know, the third thing is like Liz, like any problematic woman who's like extremely online brings out the deranged freaks in droves, which makes any criticism, excuse me, it makes any criticism of her look deranged, you know, by association. Right. And there was a lot of deranged freaks, like all the feminists came out for this one, like Marko, Philippovic, Doyle. The feminist formerly known as Sadie Doyle, who Marianne called out for their misogynistic attack, which I thought was funny. And who apparently won't change his handle from his dead name, Sadie Doyle, because he'll lose his blue check. Wait, really? Wait, that's what I heard as we were saying. Wait, but if you change your name in an existing account, you'll lose your blue

check? Really? Like the display name is like Jude, whatever Doyle their name, but then the ad is still Sadie Doyle, because I think it's I don't think they can change it. Yeah. Whatever. That person's a psycho. And no one should take anything they have to say seriously. Yeah, I mean, that tweet was psychotic, I'll pull it up. It was deranged. The other thing, so I mean, ultimately, yeah, I didn't feel as a childless woman. There's still time. I know, but like whatever I'm like, in my 30s, I'm 23. And like, I don't know if I'm gonna be ready in like two years. No, but whatever, I'm like, I'm childless. I was like, and I know women who have kids who read the piece and felt kind of triggered by it, honestly. Wait, why? Just because I think

she does inspire these. I wasn't triggered by it. Because I don't know. I definitely don't know. Wish I had a kid when I was 25. I don't think I would have been a fit mother. I think Liz Brunig was an incredibly fit mother at her age. She seems wise beyond her years and incredibly like, yeah, devoted and wholesome and like has a media career and stuff. And when I was 25, I was not, I truly was not in any position, not just economically, but like all aspects of my life to have a baby. Yeah, same. I was unwell. Yeah. But yeah, but then I saw, yeah, I saw people that saying she was like, trying to discourage women from having abortions, which, you know, good. I know. Yeah, like what, what? Yeah. I, as a fundamentally pro choice person, I'm just so

shocked by the zeal and glee with which people advocate for abortions. I mean, again, I'm a total pogliate here. It's whether you agree with abortions or not, it's a totally ethical issue. Like make no mistake, you are taking a life, you know? Yeah. Like absolutely. This becomes even more apparent once you actually have a child. And then you have to, you know, really like look at yourself in the mirror, like very guiltly, experience that guilt, let it flow through your body and remember that like, you know, this child is here because the, you know, other few are, you know, really fucked up. Like, you know, I have, I really have like this feeling, like the people on the internet who, by the way, also say deranged and cruel things about me that are completely

disproportionate to anything I've said. They'll never hate me as much as I hate myself. So I'll always have the upper hand because I did, you know, a bad thing. And like, here's Jude Doyle, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing this woman that it was a tremendous personal achievement to be repeatedly knocked up by an internet troll she met in high school. That is just such an ugly, fucked up disgusting thing to say. Yeah. About, um, you know, a woman that you don't know that's like a 2D effigy to you. Who wrote a totally benign fucking op-ed about how she's happy she had children. Psycho. Well, no, but this is the thing. This is why I say you shouldn't be jealous of Liz because you shouldn't be jealous of anyone

because Liz is, I think she does not regret children. I think she's happy she had them, but she is expressing, um, through the, the, you know, through the, between the lines, a certain ambivalence about her position in the world, which like, um, is very scary and honest. And people completely miss that in favor of like dunking on her for like, you know, well, say more about this ambivalence, I guess. Yeah. But like, well, before I get to that, I think it's funny because all of these feminists like Amanda Marco, Angel Philippovic, and, uh, Jude formerly Sadie Doyle, who by the way, all of them have them block, have me blocked. So I have to like ask people in group chats to screen cap their tweets to prepare for this episode.

Every single person who was like being quote, tweeted in response to Brunigate was had me blocked and I had to like DM it to my like, my private Twitter account to look at it. I was just like, yeah, I was like, um, well, you know, not my problem, problem solved. I guess I don't have to talk about this topic. Um, yeah, I don't know. I mean, like, I say this because I'm in a similar boat. Like, I mean, your instinct as a mother is to, um, be private and protective. Like I'm never going to pimp my child out the way that I pimp myself out. But there's no way in hell that me pimping myself out will not have consequences for my child. Do you see what I'm saying? And like, no, but we're all, we're all whores. We're all whores

and exhibitionists. We all, I mean, not just in that way. I mean, just in general, like, even if you were working at like a factory, you'd be pimping yourself out. You know, it's like there's no dignity to be found. I don't know. I think there, I think there is through telling the truth and being honest about these things. There really is. And like, you know, I think that's what we try to do, which is why contrary to the claims of our haters, we do have a very large and broad, a female listenership, no pun intended, a listenership of broads. Yeah. I mean, definitely. But I mean, and even in that, like, the, what we're subjected to on the internet is undignified. And it is that way, I think,

for everyone, not just like podcasters or media figures, I think everyone is sort of stuck in this like, uh, like Twitter, this is what I mean about like the response to Liz's article was just, like Twitter is a sick place. And it's made some people so insane that they've like transitioned. Yeah. Like Jude, you mean? Yeah. Well, the irony is that Jude, like Amanda, like Jill, made their name by being one of these kind of like feminists who cried misogyny. And so does Jude now look in the mirror after having transitioned into a man and like slap himself because he's the misog, like he became the misogynist. Yeah. He wanted to, I know. Yeah. Like there's some like weird perverted irony in that. The self loathing is

like becoming self aware. Yeah. And the trouble is like, we're in, we're all whores and exhibitionists and we're incentivized every step of the way. And we're all too weak to step away. And like, um, you know, it turns out, uh, having kids and having the faith does not prevent you from being a Twitter addict. I mean, it's very sad. Like, I'm not, well, don't you think she has to use Twitter on some level? No, no, I'm not even talking about Liz. I'm talking about like all of us, like just like, you know, like I've scaled back my usage out of, um, necessity, but out of like also desire, but we, you know, we're all kind of addicted to social media in a way. Yeah. But for someone who's trying to have a media career, they sort of depend on it. Like it's easy. Like

we can kind of step away from social media now, but like five, six years ago, um, when we were like building our followings that like, you know, we segwayed into like a podcasting audience. It's wouldn't have been as easy for us to just like log off, you know, there is like real incentive, material incentive to like posting until there, until there is end. Yeah. No, I, I get that. But like, I think for Liz, like, yeah, she's, that's, she's, that's her career. Yeah. No, I know, but I think that there's also part of her that I see and there's part of all of us that is a little overinvested. And you know, there's a vast distance between your private life as a mother versus your public persona as a mother. Um, so, you know, again, Marianne

Williamson, God bless her heart can talk all she wants. It's about misogyny and she's right. I mean, Marianne Williamson is like, she's a frustrating figure because she's like 97% right at all times, but like she doesn't nail the 3%. Um, because, you know, yeah, we can talk about misogyny and the patriarchy and the kind of unrealistic standards for women. Um, how they're, they're, they're mad at us because of our body counts and our BMIs and like what we post on the internet, but we opted into the system. We did it to ourselves to some extent. Yeah. And like, you know, um, I've, maybe it's because I've had a kid or I've had too much wine, but it's like it's like very frustrating to like sit back and, and witness this and like add up, you know, just

like also selfishly to be called like a cruel or not compassionate person because this is the gospel that I've been singing since day one. It's not meant to, uh, insult or alienate women. It's meant to tell them that like you have the power and strength within you to like value yourself in your own terms without being, you know, a social media addict or like a drama addict or something like that. Um, yeah, I hear that. And I think this can, like it concerns all of us. My life has improved drastically since like just shitposting less and just being engaged with social media less, honestly. Yeah. Of course. Like, do you feel like more kind of like plugged into reality or like tethered? Reality sucks too. It's not like it's a drastic improvement,

but it's just, yeah, my, my, the quality of my days and my thoughts are better. Yeah. You retain some clarity or whatever. Um, yeah. And I mean, you know, I remember when like upset about something camp bought said, you know, God bless him. Yeah. Like I can't, that's, there's just no reason why that should be like, I wish him the best jealousy is a disease, jealousy is a disease, bitch. Wait, I actually haven't thought about camp bot in months because he blocked me. So I just don't see his tweets anymore. Um, or maybe I, maybe I blocked him. I don't remember. Should I tell the fucked up and crazy camp bot story about how we were, he like was scrapping with me on Twitter and then he texted me and I explained to him that I was like about to give

birth and he said that I was quote a boring loser over text. Hell yeah. It was like, I, I couldn't even be mad. I thought it was like so cute and using. I just told him I wish him the best. I really do. Truly same. I think there's something always redeemable about him for me, even though he's like a fat bully. I know he's a troll and I respect as, as, you know, a recovering extremely online person. I'll always, I'll always respect like posters. Do you, do you ever have the urge to ship post? Yeah, totally. Me too. Completely. Yeah. But I'm trying to practice like mindfulness about it and be like, okay, why are you, why do you want to say this stuff? Even though, you know, it's gonna be mad. And I'm like, because it's true, but then like an

even more mature part of me is like, but it's okay. You can just let it go. Yeah. It's, it doesn't matter. You have to train. You have to like reprogram yourself. I had the urge to ship post today and I vicariously ship posted because I retweeted a tweet from some guy who was like, Israel this Palestine that this is rightful Roman land. And I was like, it's just a retarded joke, but yeah, I saw one that was like two state solution, like two Palestine seems like overkill, but whatever you know, that I, that I enjoyed. But yeah, no, I remember like several months ago, when Emrada wrote that very viral essay about reclaiming her image from like rapacious paparazzi and rapey photographers. And, you know, I don't want to dog on her either, because I find her to

be also a beautiful and kind and thoughtful young mother negotiating motherhood for the first time. But what went on said in that essay and what goes on said in the discourse in general is that you bought into this and to any woman online anytime you publish your image, you are inviting negative attention as well as positive attention. That's not a value judgment. That's like a descriptive statement. Like that's the reality and it doesn't have, it's not the patriarchy or misogynists. It's just like you can't control or contain other people's organic reaction. It is misogyny. It's just that misogyny is like a natural impulse that like courses through people when they are subjected to our experience, things that trigger them on like a

very usually Freudian early childhood, like visceral level and being a woman makes you very charged for a lot of people. And so yeah, I think it is misogyny, but it's not patriarchy. But it's not systemic. But you have to take responsibility for triggering like misogynistic impulses in people because they're going to happen regardless because they're kind of like primordial and they're kind of like, they're kind of muddy and complicated and like that's what the internet is. It's just like kind of cesspool for people's like weird, like getting their like let out. Yeah. There is weird. Oh, shit. Like, of course. But yeah, you can't legislate people's kind of intuitive organic reactions to certain things. We, you know, I think it's wrong and absurd to,

to as some people have proposed that we have to like change the expectations of a vast majority of people to cater to you. I mean, this is the same problem as the fat acceptance movement, right? Like the bar has to be customized to suit everyone. So that it suits no one in the end. Right. And like, I mean, there's it's incredibly unfortunate that people out there are cruel to fat people or think loss of them or look down on them. And I think we should all be vigilant against our like impulses in that way if you have them, you know, but it's also there's like a reason why and it's just deviation from a norm that like inspires contempt, you know? Yeah. Well, and that's the thing. I mean, people, you'll not, you'll be, you'll do better like

eradicating obesity than eradicating people's like impulses. Yeah. Or they're kind of normative stigmas. People talk a big game about like this word stigma because it's automatically seen as something bad. And it's like, well, stigmas exist for a reason, just like stereotypes exist for a reason. Just like taboos. Yeah, they have, you know, a basis. And like, you know, it's been normalized now for women to post breastfeeding pictures of themselves on the internet. Liz got into some trouble for that as well. And, you know, my feeling about it, that's insane. But go ahead. What's insane? I, that to me is a perfect example of something that is so profoundly triggering to people because weaning is people's first trauma. Not to sound

like too much of like a fucking psychology Freudian like asshole, but like weaning is your first trauma. That's the first like the breast is the first thing that babies feel an ambivalence towards that they like when they have the breast, they feel good when the breast is gone, they feel bad. So that that's like in their like barely formed psyches, breastfeeding is like an incredibly charged thing. And weaning is traumatic for everyone. You know, and I'm using trauma just also in a descriptive way, not in like a loaded way, but like being weaned is a traumatic early childhood experience that everyone like goes through basically if they're breastfed. And so seeing images of people breastfeeding, I think like triggers some response in like

people's deep subconscious. Well, men, I think it meant it makes men horny and then hostile because, you know, they, they resent me kind of horny and hostile. Yeah. I make, I'm like, oh, like the mommy milky, like, yeah, like I do kind of regress a little bit when I see like breastfeeding pigs, like a, you know, yeah, I mean, okay, here's the thing between us girls, when I see a photo of a woman breastfeeding, I think that it's beautiful and wholesome. It doesn't bother me. I think like if, if somebody sent me a picture of themselves breastfeeding, it wouldn't be any sort of, I wouldn't feel any type of way. It wouldn't be like a provocation. But when you put that image out on the internet, you have to be aware that some people will react to it negatively because

they will see it as a kind of female equivalent of like Anthony Weiner propping his baby next to his bone or because it is kind of sexually provocative on some level. And of course, people are legitimately outraged. It's not a totally kind of like unwarranted, farfetched thing for people to be outraged at the thought of somebody over sexualizing themselves by using their child as like a prop or a proxy. I mean, that's obviously the reaction there. And here's my thing. I think that if you're upfront about the fact that you enjoy your vanity by all means, I actually think there's something wrong with it. But you have to be very honest with yourself that that encompasses good and bad consequences. Plenty of people will jump to celebrate you and call you beautiful and

like stunning and a goddess and a queen. And then there's going to be another group of people who say the worst, most foul things and you really can't be mad at it. I mean, I think you have the right to be upset. You have to let it just kind of roll off of you because it's so irrelevant ultimately. Yeah, but just like, you know, so we're clear, you as a social media using birthing person have signed up for it to some extent and you can't be shocked or surprised when it happens. When do you think you'll dox your baby? What do you mean? Like post a picture of his face? I don't think I'm going to do that. You don't think you'll ever post a picture of his face? Yeah, he can do it when he's like 18 or something. Really? I don't want to do that. Just that's

like a personal decision. But I think that like, he has, you know, he's a separate autonomous human being and like he like doesn't, you know, because I see a lot of young mothers obscuring the baby's face until they don't. And that point to me seems a little like arbitrary. And I think at a certain point, I don't know, I totally respect whatever you do, obviously. But I think at a certain point, there's a way in which, you know, you're just using social media as an extension of your life in like a casual way, where it would be like weirder to obscure your kid's face than to not post it. You know, I think it's just something that happens very, very naturally organically. And so I think that, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I just, I don't know, I feel like a profound visceral

misgiving at the thought of putting my child's face on the internet. Because there are, you know, people, pedophiles, so high, such a hottie. Your baby's so hot. But I mean, listen, I peaked when I was five. So it makes sense that my baby is peaking at this age. I was like the sexiest I'll ever be. You're peaking now. I am. But I was a very sexy five-year-old. You look gorgeous. Thank you. You look incredibly, people have been saying it. Yeah, it's, well, it's because pregnancy releases certain hormones that are literally like facial feminization. No way. Yeah, you're like feminized through pregnancy because you get like more estrogen and then it goes away after three months and you go back to your like, you're like haggard, but also more anxious. Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, you know, you can't ask other people in mass to set aside, again, their natural reactions, which may or may not be flattering or pleasant, you know, that sort of thing. Yeah, the problem is it's a feature, not a bug of social media. Yeah, the problem is always is social media. That's what the platform boils down to. But yeah, I do think that people on the whole are just very misguidedly jealous of Liz, but Liz is not even, you know, I think Marianne Williamson was absolutely right to the extent that Liz to them is not a real person. Yeah, she's just a vessel for, yeah, she's all of their like dash dreams or something. Yeah. And of course, I have no love for these kind of like

Gen X feminists that circle around her like vultures. Yeah. I don't actually think that, you know, that their claim is that Liz is trying to launder a pro life stance or conservative talking points into the democratic discourse. She is pro life and she has a right to do that. Yeah, so am I. But I think she's more like trying to codify certain democratic talking points or whatever. Like she's not a conservative by any means. No, she has like a socialist bend to her like socially conservative sort of values. Yeah, I'd say personally she has like socially conservative values, but I don't think she's like, I don't know, discriminatory or like bigoted or anything like that. Yeah, like her problem isn't that she's, you know, progressive, you know,

politically. Yeah. I think by probably she also pisses people off because like kind of like on a surface level, she doesn't conform. She doesn't map onto any coordinates that they're familiar with. Right. Like her like stack of labels doesn't obtain. You know, the other thing that I will say is that there's a tendency among women when they put certain things, when they, you know, put certain personal details about themselves online or put images of themselves online, they're basically in the business of making themselves enviable, whether they know it or not, whether they'll cop to it or not, there is kind of like an inner, an ongoing competition between women online. Do you think? Yeah, totally. I don't mean that also in any like mean or

judgmental way, but you have to like keep upping the ante. And then the other thing is like at the same time, those women want to be likable. And I feel like being enviable and being likable are basically incompatible too. Right. So there's like all these like, again, this is like very It's a sweet spot. inside baseball and white girl problems. But there's all these kind of tensions that and frictions that people won't talk about. Yeah. So you get a very binary picture because it's either like, yes, queen, express yourself, you do you, of course, it's totally fine to see you breastfeeding. It's not a big deal at all. It's not like triggering my early childhood traumas, whichever. It's awesome. But yeah, I definitely don't feel like I was like deprived

milk as an infant. Like I'll never get enough milk. And it's like kind of ruined my whole life. But you do you girl. I mean, if if I'm being honest, and again, I'm not trying to be I have to like hedge everything because I don't want to like, you know, it's okay, make anybody feel bad or, you know, alienated or whatever. But part of this upping the ante again is that it's become normal for ordinary women who aren't like porn stars to post pictures of themselves breastfeeding, which again, I'm not judging these women personally, but I do think that that's a little bit weird on some level. I definitely I think it's a little weird. Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, it's not. I don't think they should be like shunned or head in a way or they should be any like

shame or God forbid stigma around breastfeeding. I think it's totally normal, great. But yeah, I agree that like the impulse to post it does feel just yeah, it doesn't it evades kind of categorization in a way that yeah, it makes people feel hostile. Yeah. And I say this like again, from a totally complicit position as a person who's going to post a breastfeeding video today to a video, a latching instruction milk into the iPhone camera. Have you taken breastfeeding pics? No, not like recreationally. I actually might do a photo shoot. No, no, no, no, my dual is in lactation consultant. I know I don't even want to talk about my private we don't have to get mad at me, but breastfeeding because I know you won't post, but I'm wondering

yeah, no, I know breastfeeding is very hard. The only breastfeeding pictures I have are very unflattering and unattractive. They are taken by like my doula and or my lactation consultant to help me with the latch. They're not sexy at all. I see. It's like me with my like I'm very much looking forward to my like cheese cloth full of cottage cheese to turn into like an empty catch of packet because like breastfeeding is rough. Sorry, that's a really gross. Oh, but yeah, I don't I don't even want to go there. Yeah, I don't want to hear about it. We can wrap we've been an hour and a half. So do we have any other I think I hit all my brunette derangement syndrome marks. Yeah. Um, I'm a fan of of Liz's. Generally, I think,

I think yeah, people just are hostile to like the goody two shoes Christian mom thing. Yeah, like the kind of wholesome home spun. Yeah, aesthetic. She's making elaborate meals and do it. She has it all. She's doing it all. Yeah. That's, I mean, I definitely wouldn't be that kind of mother. I think I'd be a good mom. I think you'd be a great mom in a lot of ways. But I don't think I'd be like making like churros and like figuring out like zany cool recipes. Yeah. And yeah, I'd have other strengths as a mom. Um, yeah, um, like you're impressive. BMI. Um, no, I think you would really like make a truly great mother. Um, as many Russian women, I look forward to, yeah, I'm having a baby. Yeah,

I just think what is, you know, what's demanded of a mother is, um, patience and sanity. Yeah. Um, and those are things that honestly take time to develop. Yeah. So that in that way, I'm glad there's kind of a delay. Yeah. Because the way bitches be acting in this country, I don't think they should be having kids when they're too young. Yeah. And you know, no, I mean, sure, no, definitely not. I mean, it also takes all kinds. It depends on, on the person, of course. Um, but yeah, I think that, but God has a plan for all of us. Yeah. You know, totally. But the other, I guess the last thing I would say about the list thing is that like I object to

the kind of disingenuous misguided furor over the fact that she didn't pencil in every type of kind of identity, like the Jude Doyle sort of argument that she's not responding to every type of situation or whatever. It's an op-ed. It's an opinion. She's writing about her experience, right? Exactly. Um, and that's a bigger problem. That's the intolerance for any kind. Like, it seems like the more normal, the perspective, the more intolerant people are that, because if she had written a piece that was like, I'm glad I had three abortions. Yeah. And people would be like celebrating it. I'm like, queen, abortions are rad. You know, but, um, expressing like a totally kind of moderate, like normal, it's normative experience of having a baby at like a pretty

normal age, even in America. Well, that's the other issue. It's like certain kind of like the the normative also like stigma normativity exists for a reason because things, certain things that are radical are only radical because they're confined to the edges to the extremities. Once those things become mainstream, um, society becomes decadent and pathological. Um, and you know, that's a problem in a nutshell, like with like wokeism or whatever, it's like those people, they're mad at you. Um, when, when you don't pay attention because to them indifference equals oppression. Um, but they're also mad at you when you engage with them because engagement equals like obsession. Right. So you can't win. There's like, it's a, it's a no win situation. The only

way you can win is like by not playing the game. Damn. Yeah. At any rate, I wish Liz the best. I, I wish her much luck in triggering the wolves at her new outlet. Yeah. Uh, I think maybe that'll be a better editorial fit because the New York Times, um, really launders in this kind of like bad face. Yeah. Journalist editorialism. Yeah. And I hope, you know, that as women, we can be honest as women, as women, we can be honest with ourselves because that's where feminism actually stands a fighting chance. Being honest about your desires. Yeah. As like a movement for equality, not equity, that disgusting financial buzzwords, the Biden administration is fond of using.

See you in hell. See you in hell, especially women.