Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S01 EP60: Tom Allen

Episode Date: November 20, 2020

ROB BECKETT & JOSH WIDDICOMBE'S 'LOCKDOWN PARENTING HELL' - S01 EP60: Tom AllenJoining us in the studio this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) during the lockdown and beyond is the brilliant comedian and presenter, Tom Allen. Tom's amazing new book 'No Shame' is available now in hardback, kindle and audiobook. Enjoy. Rate and Review. Thanks. xxx If you want to get in touch with the show here's how:EMAIL: [e-mail]: @lockdownparent INSTAGRAM: @lockdown_parentingA 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Josh Middicombe. And I'm Rob Beckett. Welcome to Lockdown Parenting Hell. The show in which Rob and I discuss what it's like to be a parent during lockdown, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, in an effort to make some kind of sense of the current situation... And to make me feel better about my increasingly terrible parenting skills... Each episode, we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how well they're coping.

Or hopefully not. And we will be hearing from you, the listener, with your tales of lockdown parenting woe. Because, let's be honest, none of us know what we're doing. because let's be honest, none of us know what we're doing. I mean, we don't know whether our sound quality is any good, do we? You sound all right to me. Yeah, and you sound all right to me. Let's do this.

Hopefully it sounds all right to everyone else. Okay, right. I mean, what else can you do? Like, you sound all right, so I don't know what I'd suggest to make it better. I think you're a bit trebly. Yeah. Can you just lower the gain? I don't know what that is.

I know what bass and treble is. I don't know what gain is. Surely you don't want less gain. No one wants less gain. Do you know what I mean? People at home are sat there going, fucking hell, guys, you could do with a bit less gain on this.

Oh, I've had to stop listening to them, they're so gainy. They're gain everywhere. Right, do you want to do the intro? Yes, hello. Hello and welcome to Lockdown Parenting Hell with... George Beckett and George Widdicombe. Oh, George Beckett and George Widdicombe. George Beckett and George Widdicombe.

So that is from Silvana Nichols. This is, yeah, her son Angelo, who his fourth birthday was on October the 9th. He has regressed in his toilet training recently since the birth of his sister three months ago. He seems to want to go anywhere except the actual toilet. We have found turds under the kitchen table behind the door and even next to the toilet.

A few weeks ago, he urgently needed to do a wee. We went out to buy ice cream. He would have wet his pants, but in a frantic panic, we pulled down his trousers and indicated him to discreetly do it between two cars in a very busy central London high street, thinking that people would turn a blind eye. But who only went and got out the cars but Linda Robson from Birds of a Feather?

Oh, she's a lovely woman. Yeah, I bet she is. If you were going to shit behind a car, it would be Linda Robson's. You'd choose Linda Robson's? Yeah. Little facts about Linda Robson. Jo Swash lost his virginity in her family bathroom. Oh, my word.

So seeing someone shit behind your car is neither here nor there. in her family bathroom. Oh my word. So seeing someone shit behind your car is neither here nor there. Wearing Spider-Man socks, but that was more of an indication that he was quite immature for an older age than he was too young to lose his virginity. What kind of weird ITV sex party was this? It was the Birds of the Feather Rat Party.

He had a bit part as a burglar. Oh, you like that, don't you, John? It's my kind of humour. Shall we let everyone know what's going on here? Michael's just taken the same. Give me three minutes. His phone died overnight and he slept through it. So let's say the situation.

Oh, has he texted back? He's say the situation oh is he text back he's just texted us well i'm going to tell him we've started recording give us five mins right tell tell the world what our setup is basically we agreed 10 a.m um sunday to record the podcast for the following week goes out on tuesday and um we were already bright and early weren't we josh yeah i've been ready for hours yeah you are on fire this morning by the way josh i'm very impressed with what you've done um michael the producer no answer nothing zilch no response kept on ringing him he's just text now i mean it's 10 a.m what kind of shit over the thought he's not got children of someone over sleeping oh my god quarter past 10 is one of the most astonishing things that I've ever heard

in my life. Also oversleeping and being late is probably one of the worst things you can do at work. Right. And I would say if your work is producing a parenting podcast where the hosts moan about lack of sleep, it's surely the worst place to have overslept. Anyway, we've managed to sort out our own recording.

You've done that, Josh. You went, I've worked out. I just need to sign up to this website and I can send you a link and it'll be fine. So let's find out if it's fine. You can be the judge, guys, because we're going to end this recording and start up with Michael. So this has all been set up by Josh Whittakin. OK? Yeah.

I've got no idea how to save it or anything like that. So you may hear this, you may not, but we're going to stop this now and then we're going to start a new recording with Michael and you can maybe let us know the difference and potentially if we need to get rid of Michael. Because at this rate we're flying on our own guys. We are, but if I

ever have to edit this, we're in serious trouble. Oh, I could edit. I could edit. Well, I mean, yeah. If I was to edit it, it would just be the bit about Joe Swash losing his virginity. That would be the whole thing. Yeah.

And we would get cancelled in about two weeks. But what a couple of weeks of shows. It's tough with release. Right. Okay, let's stop this one. Josh, you're in charge. And then we'll come back in a minute. So, listeners, we're back well

we have michael here hello michael hello how are you feeling this morning i'm a bit tired a bit groggy how long have you been how long have you actually been awake for because it's like it's 10 33 now 10 35 now i when i i woke up i'd glance over and it was 10.19. Oh, okay. So, yeah, you're barely awake. I've got a quick question. I'm sure Josh has got some for you. How is it possible to oversleep and be late for a job that is in your own house? Because to be fair to you, you were technically at work.

Yeah. So you weren't late to work. You got there, but you were just asleep at work. Well, the worst thing is, like, I didn't even have a a late night it's not like i'm sort of drunk or hungover i genuinely just had a really busy week went to bed exhausted what time did you go to bed i mean it's about 1am by the time we got to bed which is quite early that is a late night you mad bastard 1am that's really early for me i'm a. I'm a night owl. Oh, it's like having a fox edit the podcast.

1am, early. The last time I saw 1am was because I was getting up. It wasn't because I was going to bed. Also, as well, I don't know if we want to do this on air, Josh, but there's also been a couple of issues with the podcast going up a day late. I don't know if you wanted to sort of apologise or explain to the listeners. I am sorry, listeners. The barrage of social media messages that we get tells me that it does

matter precisely when. It does! It's just a podcast, guys, but no, no, it really does matter. All I can say is it's been a very, very busy two weeks for me. A little shameless plug, I've had a feature documentary in in the cinemas oh so he turns up late and now he's plugging his film i'm like russell crowe i just

rock up don't give a fuck um yeah you've been you had a film out haven't you yes so that's been a very busy uh distraction which is it's done now because say it's done, they closed the cinemas so they fucked us over. So yeah, that's a plug for a film you can't go and see. But it is available on Amazon and etc, right? Yes, it is on VOD, if you want to rent or buy it. What's it called? I can't bear this. Michael, you're not the king of promo. You've got to say what it's called.

I can't believe the amount of stiff-lipped promo I'm listening to here go for it Michael promote the shit out of it you don't know the name of it yet the film is called

One Man in His Shoes if you enjoyed The Last Dance the Michael Jordan Netflix documentary then I think you'll like this One Man in His Shoes

about trainers isn't it yeah it's about trainers it's about marketing it's about corporate accountability I wouldn't lead

with corporate accountability if you're on Jonathan Ross, Michael, but, you know, I don't know about anyone else. I'm not a home guy.

I really want to watch, I don't get much about corporate accountability. You haven't mentioned that it's about Michael Jordan as well. It's about Michael Jordan. Yeah, it leads with Michael Jordan. Guys, there's a reason why I'm behind the mic.

Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah. Thank you, Michael, for explaining all that and explaining why there's been a couple of late episodes and you've had a busy time, yeah. Thank you, Michael, for explaining all that and explaining why there's been a couple of late episodes

and you've had a busy time. But, you know, we're all getting through this lockdown together, aren't we? So we won't judge. And, yeah, my parents had to re-listen to a Daisy May Cooper episode the other day because they were... Also, as well, I do think it's a bit unfair when they get furious about a free podcast being a bit late.

Do you know what I mean? Tell me about it. Just back off a bit, yeah? You've not paid for it. Don't get up in my face. It's comic book guy, isn't it? Basically.

It's the worst episode ever. It's like, we're giving you this for free. Shall we, Michael, shall we crack on and then you can, you know,

work out your next documentary about corporate accountability or tax evasion, stuff like that. All right, over to you guys. Thanks, Michael.

Well, I think we've more or less done Monday. I mean, Tuesday. We've more or less done Monday. I mean, Tuesday. We've more or less done Tuesday. Talking about what day it goes out, you always call it Monday's episode. Well, honestly, I thought Michael's

been putting out the first episode of the week late for six months. I don't know. That's how laid back you are. I don't want to mention it to him. It has been 50 episodes now, a day late. A couple of things. No more nappies in our house. All gone it to him. It has been 50 episodes now, a day late. A couple of things. No more nappies in our house. All gone.

No more nappies. Nighttime nappy has been banished. Yes. You might have changed your last nappy, Rob. Well, I want to be a modern dad, but I want to be an old-fashioned granddad. I do not want to do nappies ever again. I want to be an old-fashioned granddad,

sat in a chair with slippers on and sort of grandchildren are brought to me like a sort of old-school Victorian businessman. And they're there and they look nice. I don't want to see them dirty. I don't want to do a nappy. I don't want to feed them. I just want them to be brought to me

when they look nice. But as a dad, I'll do it all. But as a granddad, that's going to be my aim. But no more nappies. Would you do... These are some granddad things. I'm going to ask you some grand granddad things i want you to give me a yes or a no yeah okay so nappies no getting them to sleep in the early days because your daughter's struggling no taking them one-on-one to the zoo yes when they're older yes when they're older i hate

holding babies josh do you even my own i don't want to get anywhere near him i've said it before it's like it's just too much pressure and stress and it's fragile and it's like having a tray of like eight pints of lager it's just that nothing could be improved from having a baby in your arm it could only dramatically get worse so you've held your last baby you've changed i've held my last baby and i've changed my last nappy and i'm tapping out i don't want i just hate it you don't you never oh you get used to it you never get used to wiping shit out of an ass and i'll say that as a man with experience of it you just it's awful have you stopped with your

own ass as well yeah i'll just leave it now. I just, you know, I just wait until the sprinklers come on in the garden and wash my arse there like some sort of outdoor feed day. You'll love this as well. That was, so the three-year-old's no nappies. Also, the three-year-old said to me the other day, when I was walking her back from nursery, it's quite a busy sort of street, she's sort of saying hello and stuff all the time.

And she said to me, Dad, why do you call people mate all the time so she's picked up me all right mate mate mate mate like those seagulls in finding me they just really made me laugh yeah why'd you say mate all the time oh you're raising someone who's of a different social class to yourself Rob that is I know That is very clear. Yeah, basically, I'm breeding the enemy. You are breeding the enemy. The nightmare.

Genuinely, you feel quite chipper. I'm pretty chipper, actually. Yeah, it's been pretty good. I think the second lockdown, it's like with the kids going to school, it makes all the difference, really. Yeah. Because, you know, and you can go to parks. You know, we record this Sunday morning

and Lou, it's the worst weather I've ever seen in South East London, has decided to take the kids to Hever Castle on her own in a monsoon. I said, just stay in that, just stay indoors and give them sweets. She's like, no, they'll go mad. I'm taking them out. So she literally took away torrential rain.

We went to Epping Forest in the rain yesterday yeah uh and that was very nice indeed and then the whole way around because we'd been before my daughter was like um are we gonna get the small biscuits afterwards okay which uh because there's a little kind of refreshment shack we'd only been once before three months ago but her main memory was getting a bag of mini cheddars. So she was just going on and on, saying, are we going to get the small biscuits? Are we going to get the small biscuits? So this is what happened with the mini cheddars.

We got to the refreshment thing. And bear in mind, Rob, this was in the year 2020, cash only. Oh, who's not paying tax on mini cheddars, I say? Come on, have some self-respect. So he couldn't get other mini cheddars. Oh, no, cashless Widdicombe. The media elite finally tripped up in Essex. And then another parent queuing up said,

we'll buy other mini cheddars. The people behind us bought us the mini cheddars. The people behind us bought us the mini cheddars. That is lovely. Absolutely lovely. And they say Britain is broken, but no. So no cheddar, no cheddars. No cheddar, no cheddars. That's what they said. We should say that

these people might well have been paying tax. They just enjoyed cash, but come on. Get yourself a little card machine. To be fair, they might have had bad signal in card machine anyway they might have had bad signal in the forest there's no fact based on this normally though if someone only takes cash i'm suspicious and i'm talking as a son of a black cab driver yeah so they're very very anti-card machines you're the son of a black cab driver. You're on a TV show with Jimmy Carr. You know people, Rob.

Yeah, I'm on a HMRC watch list. No Paul on my own. Everyone thinks of Bob Paul. Don't you worry. Tom Allen. Hello. Wow, what a great introduction. Thank you, Joe.

Wow, you don't overdo it. Not very American with your introductions, are you? I was going to say, yeah. You might know him from Bleak Expectations on Radio 4. Winner of So You Think You're Funny, 2003, something like that. Five. Author, podcaster, writer, comedian, alcoholic. Probably.

Wine man. That's much better. I don't know why, yeah, I don't know why I was, because literally, I don't know if your listeners will hear this, but Rob went, all right, Josh, you introduced Tom. And then I was expecting like a proper rundown, a bit like what you've just done. And then you just go, it's Tom.

No, you didn't even say that. You went, Tom Allen, hello. Do you worry that if you don't get your kind of description and credits read at the start, you're not kind of sure what character you're bringing into the interview? Is that your worry? That's my fear.

I want people to know what they're getting. I want to limit their expectations. I can't stand that bloke. Oh, it's that one. What do people say to you in the street tom when they say if they're not quite sure of your name they'll go oh you're that do they have they got a thing because they'll say to me you're the bloke with the teeth or jungle i forgot i forgot that you're a jungle musician before you're coming before me and goldie

fell out they say to me oh hello, hello, is that... They usually are nice. And then as I walk away, they go, that's the bloke. No, that's the one from... No, not that one, the other one. We should clear up at the start, Tom. How many kids have you got? None that I know of, but also I know that I have none.

I know that I have none I know that I have none you can be very confident on that confidently none and lord knows I've tried so Rob why

why have we booked Tom why well well I think the reason we booked Tom is he has a USB microphone he has a nice microphone

oh he forgot the cable yeah one he was available no one Tom's very funny which is always great for a podcast. But also, Tom, you still live at home with your parents. And this show is Lockdown Parenting Hell about being, you know, locked in with your kids. So we thought we'd get the other side of it.

And a lot of the children that are at home through lockdown are too young to appear on a podcast. But you are only just old enough to explain what it's like. 37 and at home through lockdown are too young to appear on a podcast but you are only just old enough to explain what it's like 37 and at home with your parents so how how is that you know what actually i i do like it i don't know um there are times when it's a bit stressful like i don't i don't have my own television for example so and i'm always a bit conscious do they not let you have one in your room tom no i'm not allowed it's lights out at nine yeah i was do you know i was never allowed a television as a child and it was only when the neighbors were throwing away an old black and white one

that you had to tune um manually to get the different channels that was the only television i had in my room i wish i kept that now did you crash in lockdown was it do you ever like because sometimes i find when i go back to my parents i can revert to being a child sometimes we argue over things and i'm like i'm 34 but i'm arguing with my mum like i'm 13 do you obviously like you know normally it's okay but sometimes slip into those old sort of habits um no actually we sort of moved a bit beyond that i the one thing i found well during lockdown is is, so they have their own televisions each. They have one each, which is very nice.

They'll watch almost constantly Channel 5 farming programmes, especially my dad, who loves to say, like, come and have a look at this, Tom, look at this. And I'll walk in, it'll be like a cow. And I'll be like, I've seen a cow before. Have a look, Tom, come in here, look at this. But have you seen a cow's tongue, Tom? Yes, probably on that farming programme I have, yeah.

And Countryfile, they love farming programmes. We live in the suburbs, so there's that. I don't mind that, but I did find, we didn't argue, but I realised I was sort of going, oh, I'm going out for a run now, as though I was going, I'm going out for a walk, as though I was sort of asking for permission during lockdown. I was like, I don't need to tell them where I'm going all the time. Like, it's my time, it's my life. I'm allowed to go out for a walk whenever I want I don't need to ask anyone's

permission or tell them but like now now I've been able to go back to work and stuff I find that I bury it deep down inside and then pay um a therapist to talk to about it but I uh you know things like will you be in for dinner what are you doing tomorrow well potentially i have like 11 things on in a day which range from recording a television program to doing josh and rob's podcast that's at one end um down to down to maybe a conversation with my accountant about vat or something and so so, you know, and they're like, they sort of want to know all of that. And I go, well, what did I tell? And then, but of course, when I start telling them,

they don't, they're not able to just go, I can't just go, well, I'm doing Rob and Josh's podcast. They're like, well, what's that about? And then I'll have to give them like a briefing on that. And I'm like, I don't, why am I, I'm briefing you now on my life and I'm finding it hard enough to keep on top of it myself. And I don't know if I'm going to be home for dinner or not.

Do you know what I find most troubling about that? Are they not aware of what our podcast is about? Are they not across the iTunes charts? They don't know what podcasts are. I do like podcasts, but the way people talk about them as though they're this new renaissance, I'm a bit like Radio 4.

I know this is like very on brand, like Radio 4 has literally been a podcast machine for the last hundred years and it's only in the last six months people are like oh my god

there's this brand new thing I just really got into podcasts like it's a fucking radio program sorry I'm swearing I don't know if this is that's fine

you can swear do you know what that's one of the advantages of podcasts over Radio 4 Tom yeah but I should point out I am recording this in a vicarage I'm not going to. Yeah. But I should point out, I am recording this in a vicarage. I'm not going to tell people why. I just want them to know I'm recording it in a vicarage.

And so I do feel bad about swearing in the vicarage. Can I ask a question then? So you're 37. You live with your parents. What's your history with living with your parents? I moved out when I was like 23 and I lived away for about seven years and mom and dad hated it like they really disliked it and I lived in how far did you live Kentish town and Camden so the other side of London in a way um and they were just aghast that I was spending this money on rent which was like at the time wasn't really that much in the

context of London rent but they were like what what is spending that much to live in this house? That's all. And they had no concept of like, but why would you want, like if I turned around and gone, because I want to see what it's like to be an adult and live on my own, they would have been like, what, what's that? Like, they were like, you just stay at home. Then you don't have to spend any money and then everything's taken care of. We're all close together and all safe. Um, and so they had no,

they would like, particularly my dad, when I lived in an ex-council flat in houston my dad was like why why do you live in here why do you live here it was they took it so personally they had no idea about why somebody in their 20s would want to like live independently with friends in the middle of a city they were like they weren't like wow this is fun you're gonna have a great time living here there was like none of that it was like what why until that then became like guilt and fear so then I moved back um I moved back because I was like I'm gonna save for my own trying to save for my own place and that was sort of seven years ago and then it's just like oh well do you think it's they don't want you to go and you feel a bit guilty about going or do you also really like it at home or is it a bit of both a bit of both I think like I think at one part I am like they guilt trip me a bit and I feel bad about the idea of leaving but then

I actually realize I do like it because I have company there if I lived on my own then you know I get back late and then you, I wouldn't see anybody when I get in. And then I wake up in the morning and there'd be no one, you know what I mean, no one to chat to. Whereas mum and dad, of course, are up early watching Frasier followed by Lorraine. You can move in with me. That's what I do as well. Well, I just move in. Perfect. Perfect. So they're, I don't know. I sort of i sort of think well it's quite i quite like being around them but is that weird i think that's probably weird of me i'm tugging at the apron

strings i'm the sort of person and the sort of person they quite enjoyed marching off to the first world war i think yeah i don't know if you are tom to be fair though i think i think sometimes the perception of you is that you've lived at home forever, but you did live away for a bit and then you moved back in with them and stuff. And as your, you know, comedy career really sort of took off and you become like basically a national treasure and you're everywhere. And you've not really had much time. It's a bit of a sweet deal, really, because you're so busy. You're not at home that much. Do you know what I mean?

So it's quite a good setup until, you know, you eventually, I imagine, will buy somewhere. And then that's when the work will dry up and I'll have no way to pay for it and I'll have to sell myself. And then you'll have to move back in your parents... Yeah, rent out the house. I've got two follow-up questions, Tom. Go on.

Because I'm genuinely fascinated by this. I feel like I can answer a lot of questions that have been building up for a time here. Yes. Why haven't you got a girlfriend? No, I'm genuinely fascinated by this. I feel like I can answer a lot of questions that have been building up for a time here. Yes. Why haven't you got a girlfriend? No, so... Question... Never found the right one.

I nearly ruined the whole podcast. Nearly being sick my coffee over the laptop then and I still haven't swallowed it properly. So question one, how big is the house? Like, have you got... How much of your own space have you got? I've got a bedroom and I've got, and I use this, there's like a spare bedroom that's a study. So I use that.

Yeah. And how much, do you own any of your own things? Like your own crockery or? I bought, oh, I've got a couple of plates, but I bought two chairs once from made.com. And dad was like, why are you wasting your money on that you should be saving for a house I was like you

what I'm going to need something to put in it dad do you know what I mean you've never bought a bed though you don't own your own bed though do you is that right mattress I've got a mattress I could be a heroin addict and do you have any siblings yes I have a younger brother I've got a mattress. You've got a mattress. I could be a heroin addict. Yeah, I could be a heroin addict.

And do you have any siblings? Yes, I have a younger brother. And he lives in Tunbridge Wells. So he's flying the nest. Yeah. I know. How's that gone down? Well, they love it.

Like, mum and dad love Tunbridge Wells. But, like, he said to me, oh, I just bought this flat. I didn't tell, I didn't ask mum and dad about it. I just did it. And I think that's the way they like to get a bit involved, you know? They like to be like, oh, well be like oh well i wouldn't buy well you want to live

there well you've got to think about well and then there's this and then there's that you know every time i looked at a flat they're like well you've got to think about the service charges and you've got to do this and what have you got noisy neighbors and you want that view and you know so it's best just not to talk to them really did you didn't you buy like a cushion or chair or something and then your mum rearranged it? Oh, I redid my room in a beautiful way, and then mum went with Auntie Christine to Dunelm in Croydon and came back with this, like, absolutely not sanctioned,

not approved lamp, which was horrible. It emitted no light. It was like that, like, rip-off fake rose gold and a filament light bulb inside. And I was like, what rip off fake rose gold and um and a filament light bulb inside and i was like what's this dog shit um and a massive like an orange pillow which i didn't want i don't have any orange in my room and i was like the one thing i made for myself and you like tried to put your own stamp on it like just stay in dunelm stay in dunelm. Stay in Dunelm. All this shit. Sorry, it's sounding a bit angry, this, isn't it? No, it's fine.

It's fine, isn't it? I was going to say, would you want to have kids yourself? Absolutely not. So it's just totally no? Absolutely not. No, you can keep that. Because you've spent time with my children and Josh's daughter. They've only just stopped crying when they see me, Rob, let's be honest be honest no that's only because you've got a deep voice but you do say that

it's not it's because they the children see the poison in myself but um and it terrifies them but they i'm okay with it now i don't like i used to worry about it but actually i don't care i mean i do genuinely love both i've met both your children um and um i do really love them but i'm not going to start like making effort with new ones you know what i mean you've got some that you half like yeah well if yeah if someone's got a child now they want to introduce me to and it doesn't like me i'm not going to worry about it you know what i'm not i'm not going to start buying it or anything like that it's a waste of time they don't appreciate it anyway never send a thank you no if you were to have kids though tom what kind of parent do you think

you'd be oh awful put them straight in an orphanage yeah awful get rid no but like just from the point of view of like you were obviously a an extrovert of a child and you know your mum and dad probably had to parent you differently to your brother because you were very different the way you sort of approached life so what do you think that would have an impact on how you would have been a parent if like how would you if you were your own son how would you have parented you as a child obviously being a bit different and if people don't know your book's incredible no shame it's about your sort of childhood and growing up to become a comedian and stuff and how different you were and you'd you know you'd you dress up in all these flamboyant

outfits and stuff and almost just pretend to be a victorian type character of of your own life how do you think your parents parented you in the right way like that you would have done it or well i think i mean i always feel a bit a bit bad that i talk about them and i get like annoyed with them on stage and stuff but i think you know fundamentally can you imagine like they just innocently decided to have a family and then they were presented with this i mean talk about like what it looks like on the website and what it turns up as and um and you know and i think that they kind of they were suddenly presented with this like flamboyant character who couldn't connect with other children because he felt like he was 46 years old. That's quite a tall order, isn't it?

A coach driver from Penge. And I just sort of wanted to be this flamboyant character all the time and who wanted to just sort of be treated as an adult. And I think that was hard for them. My dad was born during the Second World War. Very different. So I think they did hard for them. You know, my dad was brought up in, you know, my dad was born during the Second World War, you know, very different. So I think they did their best really. And I do have to acknowledge that.

But I think if I was doing it differently, I don't know, I like, you know, you like to go like, oh, well, of course I'd be like, I'd have so much time and I'd honour every feeling and acknowledge every insecurity. But in reality, I'd be like, shut the fuck up. Actually, to be honest honest my parents have always been very caring and in a time oh yeah they're such lovely people they're all they all they they

love you so much and everything's in there just so you know that sounded like you're being sarcastic but i know you're not no oh yeah yeah they're such lovely people they love you so much they are they are the kindest because i've you know me and tom are really good pals i've spent a lot of time with his parents they're the loveliest people and they're just proper like sort the earth family orientated people and like you and um your brother are their sort of world aren't they and they're so supportive but they're very supportive but i think if anything in a way i think it probably would have been easier to kind of go gallivanting off and living in Camden

if they hadn't cared as much. Does that sound ridiculous? That sounds terrible. Yeah, of course. Also, the feel protective overview of, you know, growing up in South East London, it's quite a fairly rough and tough place to grow up. It's not the worst place, but, you know, I remember getting mercilessly bullied for having like high-tech socks.

Oh, you had high-tech socks? That's just sad case i know it's such a big thing but then i'm worried about that and like trying to cover up what socks i've got and you're walking around with like a bowler hat and a and and you know and this mad stuff which is like a target they must have thought oh my god this boy is going to school of a briefcase and a bowler hat in southeast london it's like it's like a target on your back well dad would say like you're too sensitive stop being oversensitive and I'd be like they're literally throwing things at me but what I'd say about Tom is Tom you most people and comedians are an exaggerated version

of them on stage I'd say you've calmed down since a childhood yeah I did calm down since I've been a kid well because when I started doing stand-up in 2005 if you were too weird people would be like you know i say this before i've said this before but i would turn up at gigs like where they'd be like stag parties and hen parties and i'd walk out there going like oh has anybody seen the film amelie and then start talking about like when i worked at the golf club pushing a dessert trolley around um and you know there was they would be like absolutely apoplectic like there would be few these braying hen parties and stag parties would be like what the fuck is this because they're not particularly in the mood for like listening to some endearing anecdotes so so yeah

i did have to turn it down and explain myself quite a bit on stage because otherwise i think people would have been like what what is this what's this you did have an umbrella as well which actually isn't that big of a deal but in south east sunday it sort of is because like blokes don't really have umbrellas you just get wet and look sad but like i remember people going he's got an umbrella yeah so was tom a kind of otherworldly figure at school rob well for me tom's a little bit older than me so he was in like the sixth form when i was in like year eight or nine so it was a bit like when they're just older kids I think by that point I think you'd had a tougher start at the school but at

that point you were one of the oldest and I think you were sort of it was just got to the point was from my perception but it was like oh that's just Tom that's what Tom does and he was so successful in the sort of theatre part of the school musical part of the school he was sort of quite a bit of sort of a star of the school i i saw him as um so i think at that stage you sort of found your groove where i think year seven and eight must have been a much tougher time yeah i'd say that's probably true yeah but by the time i got to the sixth form i felt a lot more like flamboyant in my ways i'm a lot more relaxed about it because like yeah like i say i think you can spend energy trying to blend in or you can just go the other way and be like, I'm different. Get over it.

And then actually be like, I guess you're different. But before then, it was like, I felt very self-conscious. But you realize that just after a while, you just get like wound up about it and just want to, you could just go, well, bollocks to it. Like bollocks to what people think, you know? Because otherwise, you just spend your whole time on eggshells trying to be like, don't say this and don't say that. But I could never come out of that as a kid i think that was probably that's been difficult for my parents like reading the book about sort of seeing how

that impacts on other things i i want to join this podcast before i read the book um just because it's quite you know a funny story of being at home with your parents it's about parenting and things like that but what i got a lot from the book is that it's you know it's an excellent book anyway if you want a funny book but if you're a young kid i'd say it's very good for younger people that are either a bit different or a bit outside the norm and plus or and or gay because it's it really speaks to like to try to get through all of that at school and as a parent you don't know what the right thing to do or what to say is and i've had you know um even just one of your quotes that you put on instagram people have messaged me saying that it's had an impact on their kids where and i think it was what you're trying to say the quote i've got here is there's a part of me that has

found that if people are going to pick on you for being different you can either work to blend in so you don't get picked on anymore or you can go the other way and be as different as you can just to show them that you won't be cowed against a wall forever it's not the same as retaliating with physical violence but it's a giant up yours to anyone who's coming for you even if it does feel like freezing cold water running down your spine you don't do it for anyone else you do it for yourself and you posted that that that quote on instagram and a friend of mine i won't say names but his son is very very similar to you growing up he well he he's only about seven or eight but he requests like little baker boy caps boiler

suits and he loves old tools and has to has to wear like a tie and a waistcoat at the time wow a girl at school said that he was weird and then he showed him that quote and read it to him and it really helped him and i do think this book is a great book for any you know if you're a parent or if you're a younger person that does feel different growing up for whatever reason, I think this really speaks to them. And it's quite an interesting thing, you know, because as a parent, you feel powerless. Your mum and dad must have felt so powerless letting their sort of special kid go out that's, you know,

obviously different to the rest of the boys and girls at school. But, you know, and they didn't know how to deal with it. But I think it's a great book to sort of help kids get through that. And I don't know if you had the idea of writing it when you wrote it or if it just came out as part of the process i did it mainly for the for the money no i didn't but i didn't um i well i suppose i wanted is it true you've used your book money to buy a third plate is that true that's true no well thank you very much saying that no i did it i think i did do it to kind of i guess, because I think when you're in it as well, as a child and you

sort of, you know, you're different, but you don't know quite why or how, and then people are like, but why, but why, but why do you talk like, I always spoke differently to people around me. And so people, but people are always like, but why, but why do you talk like that? But why do you act like that? But why do you want to wear them clothes? I don't understand. And people are so like, kind of, the world is so like that like something different i've got to control it and mold it so i can understand it um because i suppose they see a reflection of their own inadequacy but um so i suppose i did it to kind of explain it to myself really and and i i did hope that you know like anybody who's who's ever felt like an outsider or ashamed of anything or any part of themselves would go like, oh, actually, I've done things like that.

And for me as well, I wanted to explain it in a way that wasn't like I got bullied and then I did this one thing and it showed them and that was that and I won and I'm the triumphant this. It's a bit like when people do it on social media. I never like it when people are like, yeah, I owned that. I told them I slammed that. And it's like, I broke the internet. That went viral. It's like, bullshit. Like, I just think, you know,

it's sort of life is much more complicated than that. And actually you can have sending like a really kind of snippy tweet back at somebody whilst can be quite pleasing to read about in a way it doesn't really, in my opinion, doesn't really in in my opinion doesn't really cure or or help anything i think you still kind of if you've if that i wanted to sort of represent it like you know if you experience kind of feeling outside like an outsider you don't see for me i didn't try and blend in i dressed up in victorian clothing or like i couldn't come out so rather than telling somebody secretly i I threw an elaborate lunch party

where I invited the guy I fancied and two RE teachers. Like, so, you know, just sort of did like, you know, always kind of like, what? And you did that. And at first, like, the editor was like, I'm sorry, what? Why did you do that?

And I'm like, because I did. And you know what I mean? Like, sometimes I just, I think, I think they're like, but you should be out playing football that's what kids do I don't want to do that

why? well I don't know I'm just fucking here I just don't want to I don't ask to be bored I'm just here I'm just trying to get through yeah

it's not like it's a business plan a bank this is my life and this is what I'm gonna do yeah like it doesn't have to be like well how are you gonna make a profit from that

I don't know I'm just trying to exist I'm trying to get you know. I'm just trying to exist. I'm trying to get, you know, you're making me go to this fucking school that apparently everybody's got to go to. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do PE. I don't like the other children. But you make, apparently I've got to go there because that's what everybody does and it's good for me. OK, I'll do it. But why? But why did you do that? But why do you talk like that? But why do you leave your homework to the last minute?

Well, probably because I don't really like being at school. But everything's like, I don't know. I'm always amazed when people's, like, curiosities are met with, like, what? Like, kind of out of the range. And you go, like, well, as I always say, if human beings make sense, I'd be out of a job. But I guess that's true of all three of us.

It's comics. You know, people were like, do you know what I mean? I fancied someone, so I told them, and then we fell in love. Well, you know, like, or like I've always, you know, there's a point when I always wanted to be in a relationship. And I was like, but when I come out, then it will be fine. And that's always the sort of story you get told in films and stuff. And then when I came out, it felt exactly the same.

And all it was now was everyone was like, you got a boyfriend? Yeah, you got a boyfriend? And I'd be like, no. It's like, people love to know, don't they? They love to know,'t they they love to know nosy in i just think it's so true like that people are obsessed and people are a bit different going why are you doing that because it does challenge the status quo whatever else is doing but like you know why are you doing this why are you doing that and i just thought i think like at school

you're like well why the fuck are we doing higher jump yeah like when none of us are gonna what are the chances of any of us gonna to be a professional high jump? They taught us high jump before they taught us how to do self-employed tax. Do you know what I mean? I've never been taught to do self-employed tax. I never stayed to that lesson. Exactly. They didn't do that, but I know how to fucking high jump,

but I just can't do it. I knew how to do the discus. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I would actually refute that Rob knows how to high jump or Tom knows how to do the discus. I cannot picture either of those things. I know you've got to spin around.

That's all I know, spin around on the couch. Do you remember, like, the first kind of... Do you remember, like, your first Victorian item or what it was that got you into kind of this different image i suppose would be the word um i don't know actually i think i just enjoyed i enjoyed old films and stuff and i think that was my means of escape so i just sort of thought well if i dress up as though i'm in an old film maybe i'll sort of somehow be in an old film yeah yeah so weird isn't it don't worry i'm tom i'm still living in the 90s it's a it's a

less big gap but i'm living in the past as much as you are there's nostalgia everywhere isn't there and i suppose we're all one of the things that everybody's sort of putting on a bit of a performance aren't they and and people always sort of say like oh you know well they don't always say but some of those people are gays why they got to be so camp and so flamboyant all the time we don't all need to act like that all the time do we and i want to go like you're putting on a performance with your boring life and your you know yeah boring rubbish life pretending to love your wife yeah exactly like all of that i'm the troublemaker i'd say yeah yeah exactly well that's the same with like lads lads get away with it we're like if you're a bit different or maybe camper a bit more alternative it's like oh

what are you doing that for why are you in that bat you know but they're like there's loads of lads literally still in their mid 40s to 50s dressed like liam gallagher with big coats and adidas trainers and you sort of think you're you're basically fancy dress all of you like a little gang of that's what you all wear. It's their version of top hats, yeah. I think... Exactly. But yeah, and I remember at school,

people would start calling each other like, son. All right, son. But like, you're three months younger than me. Why are you calling me son? It's impossible. It's because they're copying their dad. They basically want to be their dad. That's the biggest drag of all, isn't it?

Trying to be your dad. I got called chief once when I was 14. He went right chief like another 14 year old i was like who's calling each other the worst i hate the most is when people go all right big man i'm like i'm five for eight you said i'm fat what's going on here yeah that's true yeah i'm not a big man hey big man like yeah i don't know and even saying mate and stuff it's just like i remember when i was at school like there were all these all the's just like i remember and when i was at school like there were all these all the kids just wanted to be their parents i think i know it's the area that rob and i grew up in or what but there was a desperate desire like you couldn't be vulnerable

you couldn't be a child as soon as you went to secondary school especially you had to be an adult almost immediately remember the girls in my year having like handbags they carry on their shoulders and like blow waves and like they'd get their done and and they'd kind of talk about they'd act like they were sort of 40 and the same with the boys they would act like they were their dad so they would and they probably their dads probably would encourage that i imagine as well because they would want their kids to be tough and be able to deal with the world and i guess that's a natural thing to do you want your kids to be able to survive in a sort of primal way but but they would be yeah they would dress like their dads they probably go to the pub with their dads they go football with their dads um they would do you want your kids to be able to survive in a sort of primal way but but they would be yeah they would dress like their dads they'd probably go to the pub with their dads they go football with their dads um they would do you know they would call each other mate and they'd kind of

you know they were just taught to basically live as their as their particularly their dads i remember it being and i don't know if that's something wrong with it per se but i just i remember it feeling i was like well you think i'm putting on an act i mean have you seen these clowns I just, I remember it feeling, I was like, well, you think I'm putting on an act? I mean, have you seen these clowns? Do you still live in the same area? Is it the same house that you grew up in? Yeah. Yeah.

So you live in. Yeah. So it's very, it's just around the corner from Rob. It's suburbia, right? It's suburbia. Yeah. And I do quite, as I've got older, I've realized I like suburbia. And you realize, well, it is a nice place to bring up kids until the age of 37.

And when you're living with your parents so so in in the evening i know you work a lot of evenings but like i suppose during lockdown you weren't are you all settling down as a family and negotiating what to watch on tv are you how do you have dinner around the dinner table like how how do you have dinner at the table um yeah we do have dinner around the table and then we tend to go off on our separate ways for well sometimes i'm working in in the evening so i'm not there but um if i'm there they'll mum will sit in the kitchen there's like a through kitchen with a with a telly she'll sit there and watch well she's going to i'm a celebrity which um i never thought she would be um either that or maybe a poirot, whereas dad will go in the other room and watch Channel 5,

usually about farming, preferably. And do you go to your room? And I will go to my room. And if I'm at home, yeah, or I'll have a bath because that's the only time I don't check my phone. And then I'll watch like a nice old sitcom

in the bath for hours. That's normal, right? But what about like sort of friends over? Do you have friends over to for for dinner and stuff or do you like i've been around them before for your birthdays and stuff but like do you have like what about the partners or anyone that you're seeing do they ever stay over and is it awkward no well i'm never seeing anybody no i've no i could never have anybody over you know like there's no way it's but it's you know that it's a vicious circle isn't

it because i'm like no I couldn't have a partner because I'd never be able to invite them around. But you could move out and then you have a partner. No, I can't move out because, you know, it goes around and around and around. So basically I keep myself single and infantilized. But yeah, you know, there's some families who are like, they'd like talk about contraceptives and stuff

when they're young. And I'd be like, oh my God, absolutely not. Like no mention of sex. I dreaded it for most of my childhood. Like, please don't ever talk about sex i can't imagine anything worse than than having i wasn't given the chat did you have the chat rob no not really but i had older brothers and like also as well the absolute state of me as a 15 where i don't think there's any sort of unprotected sex on the horizon. So, you know. Is that what we've just discovered?

That none of us got the chat? Not because our parents didn't want to do it. They just thought it was totally pointless looking at the three of us. Should we talk to Rob about unprotected sex? Look at the state of him. Absolutely not. Yeah. He's protecting himself.

No, it's very, like, all that stuff so i mean yeah i knew people when i got older who were like oh well you know i was talking to my mom about how i was allergic to latex and blah blah and i was like oh my god i cannot imagine talk like talking in any detail like oh and do you find it awkward then to know that they're reading personal details about you and in the book um no i've left the room when they read it imagine stalens looking at them what page you're on this is a good page um um yeah no i left them to it really not that it has anything terribly salacious in it does have a mention of a futon at one point but um but yeah it's just quite kind of easier like yeah i talk

about going for an sdi test when i was about 23 which of course i've never told them about do you know like yeah but it does make it difficult when they're like where you go in but where you go in where you go now what you're doing now i'm like that is the worst thing about being like at home when you're going out and seeing things is the constant questioning and so that never stops and does it that just gets more intense no realization of why it's stressful do you know what i mean yeah i'm just like no realization of can you imagine if i said this to you all the time like every day like what you got on tomorrow like and then you have to list everything um and what i don't know if i'll be home for dinner or not i'm an an adult. I'll feed myself.

Every day do they ask about dinner? Yeah, pretty much, yeah. You in for dinner? Well, no, I'm going to a recording that starts at six. Do you think they realise that they're doing this? Probably not. And I think that's the thing, is I can't, because I don't have children of my own. I don't know.

I think people do say it does change you when you have children. You do feel very protected. And I guess you never lose that that you never leave that sense of panic and protectiveness but she's i remember when you met us at the park for a picnic on quite a warm day and your that was insane that day yeah and your mom um drove you down did she drive you down or did you walk down i think you walked down i walked down and then she drove down with me then she drove down and was like i'll give you a lift also your dad says he should take a hat with you yes and then she drove down some sun cream for your head yeah and i was like this is

insane i mean not to blame but i do think that is that is kind of unhealthy that's too much isn't it but in her too much but it's she's thinking you know she's just doing right by me not as unhealthy as not putting sun cream on your bonds tom come on right and mine is well exposed as well exposed all the way yeah well it's but yeah that was i was like oh wow that because that is quite a full-on thing to do isn't it like to bother to go because it's not like i would do that if it was like i'd given my baby to someone to take down a park and i forgot to put sun cream on I'd maybe ring him and go I'll put a hat on or I'd drive down with some cream so I could you know but when they're grown fully grown yeah you'd know if your head's burning wouldn't you well you'd think so

yeah it was a weird day that and then they sort of laughed about it but sort of but then I know like on the surface of it I am like what are you doing but then I know what am I you then I sort of question and and go, well, do you not want them to care? Do you want them to not care? Like, they're doing their best for you. That's my inner monologue. And then I'm like, oh God, oh God, I'm a terrible person refusing them.

Yeah, but you've got to draw the line, you know, because then that could go to like, yeah, but they just want my bum to be clean. Because I might not wipe it properly. That is not what happens. No, they don't wipe your bum anymore do they not since you did uh live at apollo um rob you always uh you always have a question that's normally quite pertinent with a couple but i think it's particularly kind of uh pertinent with tom yes do you want to ask

basically the question is is there something that your parents do um that really annoys you and frustrates you and gets under your skin but you know that like you can't really say it to them without it being a big row but you could say it now and if they did hear it on this they may change that way so it's sort of a thing that could help help your relationship really but is there something that just gets really under your skin that you can't say about being a big argument oh that's a good one um i think it's mainly to do with serving dishes about like please use them rather than just bringing things from the oven to the plate leaving a serving dish on the table and then not clearing them away before we have dessert that really gets on my nerves just feels very so give me an example so they what make up i would say like if you've roasted some potatoes or if you've done some oven chips you don't need

to bring the oven tray through to the table yes um and you don't need to use those tongs that you've had for too long for getting them off the tray onto the plate you just put them in a nice bowl and we could probably all help ourselves and that would be nicer instead it's like no i'll put them on the plate so i suppose it's about control isn't it that's basically and also like clearing salt and pepper away before dessert i just think it's a small small matter do you want something more profound than that no i don't think there's i don't think there is anything more profound than that if we drill down into it you can only ever be on brand tom and you always are and that is the most tom

adam thing ever that serving dishes uh tom it's been amazing thank you so much absolute pleasure yeah no shame your book is out now on kindle audio book as well you've you've done your own done it yourself yes that'll be good because well you've you've done your own done it yourself yes that'd be good because well yeah if you like that sort of thing and book is out as a book isn't it as well and book and a normal book paper book words is it out as a paper book tom just a paper a book made of paper yeah you're such a traditionalist that you've even done it in a book form yeah yeah i know right so very victorian yeah it's all handwritten and he's he's handwritten that you've even done it in a book form. Yeah. Yeah, I know, right? So very Victorian. Yeah.

And it's all handwritten. And he's handwritten every copy with a quill. Yeah. Unusual way of doing it. But the right way. Yeah, I like to think so. Cool. Thank you so much, Tom.

That was excellent. Thank you very much, Tom. Cheers, bye. Thank you for having me, you guys. Lovely to get this off my chest. Bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

That was Tom Allen. I'm not going to lie. We forgot to do the bit at the end so rob is now gone so this is just josh thank you to tom uh sorry that's all right that's my daughter dropping her uh camera that's edie's dress thank you very much thank you very much we'll give that to edie right tom allen whose book No Shame is out now. It's absolutely brilliant book. I would implore you to read it. Obviously, if you've if you've listened this far, the odds are you're a fan of Tom Allen. So it is exactly what you'd hope. It's funny. It is inspiring.

What more could you want from a book, really? Thank you for listening. If you want to get in touch with us um then this is how email us hello at lockdown parenting.co.uk or tweet us at lockdown parents or instagram lockdown underscore parenting and you can also send us stuff p.o box 76748 london e99dw we will be back next week when we'll be switching back into our normal order we'll be 877-674-8LONDONE-E99DW. We will be back next week when we'll be switching back into our normal order. We'll be back on Tuesday with a guest, back on Friday with me and Rob telling you about all the joys of parenting. We'll see you then.