Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S02 EP29: Elis James (The Return)

Episode Date: April 30, 2021

ROB BECKETT & JOSH WIDDICOMBE'S 'LOCKDOWN PARENTING HELL' - S02 EP29: Elis James (The Return) He's back!! For a very speical 100th episode of Lockdown Parenting Hell we welcome back our first return guest to discuss even more highs and lows of parenting (and life) during the lock down and beyond - it's the brilliant comedian and writer, actor and all round parenting and podcasting legend - Mr Elis James.Enjoy. Rate and Review. Thanks. xxx If you want to get in touch with the show here's how:EMAIL: [e-mail]: @lockdownparent INSTAGRAM: @lockdown_parentingA 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Josh Middicombe. And I'm Rob Beckett. Welcome to Lockdown Parenting Hell. The show in which Rob and I discuss what it's like to be a parent during lockdown, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, in an effort to make some kind of sense of the current situation... And to make me feel better about my increasingly terrible parenting skills... Each episode, we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how well they're coping.

Or hopefully not. And we will be hearing from you, the listener, with your tales of lockdown parenting woe. Because, let's be honest, none of us know what we're doing. Because let's be honest, none of us know what we're doing. Hello, you are listening to Lockdown Parenting Hell with Rob Beckett and Josh Whittacombe, episode 100. What is Lockdown Parenting Hell? What I've realised, Rob, is the only joy in my life are the WhatsApp groups in which I talk to other dads about how awful the existence

of lockdown with children is. And it was twofold. It's A, laughing at their existence, and B, laughing about how much we hate our friends, like ****, which they walked into town for something to do, like a fucking wanker.

So I was pondering this, and i thought there's a there's a no risk and possibly very popular podcast you could do where you'd do say it was me and you it'd be called something like the two worst dads in lockdown question mark and you're basically you talk about your experiences in the first 10 minutes then you've had correspondence from people who are sending in their awful parenting that they've done, the things that have made them feel most guilty

I reckon I watched 20 Sarah and Ducks today my screen time last week on my phone was 8 hours a day it's fucking pathetic and then the second half of the podcast would be an interview with someone else. For instance, John Richardson, Romesh,

Ellis and Izzy as one, together, whatever. And it would be a very funny, very self-depreciating podcast in which you talk about how bad you're doing at parenting in lockdown. And it would give us something to do in the lockdown, I will await your thoughts. But no pressure either way.

It was just something I was pondering today. I don't fancy it to be honest, Josh. I don't think people will listen. Look at that. I mean, the problem now is if there's any sort of like ownership issues of this podcast, it feels like you really did a lot of the legwork early doors with that message. Well, I had some good ideas.

Like, I think I'm one of the first people that had the idea to book Romesh for something. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you're a visionary. Romesh for a show. But that's amazing. That was sent. You sent that to me 2020, 19th of April. Do you remember the first guest, Rob, for two points?

Katherine Ryan. Yes. 28th of April. What a turnaround. What a turnaround that was. Anyway, welcome, Josh, to the podcast that we invented together. 100 episodes. I very much enjoyed it, though.

For me, I don't feel comfortable with this, George. I find it very self-flagellating talking about stuff. You know when they do them like, oh, it's been 100 episodes? I just sort of, I don't know how to talk about it without feeling too self-involved. But I'm very much aware that I've got a podcast exclusively talking about me and my life. Yes, but it's not your life. It's not your achievements, Rob. No, it's not my achievements. And I would say, is this

an achievement? Well, not really. Anyone can make 100 episodes of the podcast. Exactly. It's not an achievement. Yeah, it's not an achievement. 100's 100, isn't it? It's the quality that counts. Yeah, exactly. So. Anyway, well done. It's not bad in a year. We'll take that. No, and we've got Ellis James on, who is possibly one of our defining early episodes,

who is having a particularly bad lockdown. Yes, and he's in a better place now. He's in a better place now. We're all in a better place. He passed away. We've done this from the grave. Yeah, we've done it via Ouija board. It's not a great lesson.

We should say, if you didn't hear Tuesday's episode, then what the hell are you doing with your life? But we will be trying to get back favourite guests we've had to get updates on what they've been up to. Parenting changes every year. Yes. Well, we've got Daisy Mae Cooper we want to try and get back on because she's literally had another child since she spoke.

That would be a good one. Maybe when she's promoting her book. Ellie Taylor has moved out of London, Rob. Oh, wow. Big change. She's moved to the countryside. With her children? With, no.

Ellie Taylor's marriage has fallen apart. Let's see how it, no, it hasn't. It's all good. It's all good. It's all good. But various people we will catch up with. Do tweet us and go below the Instagram to let us know which guests you'd love to have back on.

I've got to ask you a question before we crack into Ellis. Is your daughter into dinosaurs? Not really. Because my daughter's obsessed with them. And I am absolutely shocked by the amount of dinosaur names she knows correctly. And I don't know if we should have spoke to andy about this because he does all dinosaur adventures but like i i still get tripped up by the p in dinosaur names yeah because pterodactyl is not pterodactyl silent p in it with the

dinosaurs um and and pterosaurs and then diplodocus there's all sorts of like and i just really into dinosaurs yeah and she'll know all the names and I just don't understand how they know them. Rob, you've got an intelligent wife who's passed on her genes. No, but like, no, but these other words they can't do. They can't, they'll get like there and then wrong.

But we can smack out pterosaur, no trouble. But this is the thing, right? If you're interested in something, you just learn about it straight away. And if you're not interested, it's so difficult to retain that information. Like, I learned so much as a kid about football, not by trying to do it, but, man, I couldn't have been less interested in chemistry. Yeah, like, I can say, like, I've got quite good geography

from knowing about football clubs around europe yeah that's where my geography comes from and pronunciation of certain names i know like a much better with any footballers names and boxers names than i'm with other things just because i care about it exactly exactly you know you shouldn't be able to pronounce gabrielle selassie as easy as i did the other week just off the top of my head compared to other things i don't know you You know, like Manushai. Yeah. I didn't know that was spelt Munite.

But you don't need to, Rob, because you're too busy learning how to pronounce Frank Bruno. I'm too busy for that. I'm too busy getting furious with my children that when they're hungry and tired, turn into little pricks. That's what I can't deal with. And they come home from school fuming does your daughter eat dinner at school yeah she does oh right so if they come home and they're hungry and they've not had their snack or they

didn't like their school lunch or whatever about our free they just turn into i've had to start just boiling eggs and just giving them boiled eggs just to keep them going yeah i think that's all right that's my go-to now as a boiled egg. I just eat a boiled egg. But that 10 minutes while it boils or whatever it takes. No, you pre-boil them and leave them in the fridge. Oh, very shrewd. Very shrewd. Yes, I've been boiling eggs. I've been boiling eggs in the morning and dishing them out about four o'clock before dinner.

Lovely, Rob. My daughter wakes up hungry and annoyed that she's hungry. But what can you do about that? Give her breakfast? Well, yeah, obviously. But it's that period. Yeah, and they're just like snappy until they eat yeah that is difficult because occasionally i think what would be really good is what i need to do is wake up slightly before her that is never going to happen ever but i read that jerry seinfeld said that he

wakes up before his kids and meditates and then goes downstairs with him i'm like what time's this fucker getting up if you if i woke up at like r5 to meditate for 20 minutes i would immediately fall back to sleep there's no way you could meditate that early in the morning without just going straight to sleep of course you would it's difficult enough to stay awake meditating at the best of times let alone waking just when you've woken up extra early ahead of your kids it's mental it's insane but yeah that's some people do it some kids i think it's just when your kids get older and they sleep in more because i think once they get to about eight or ten they will just sleep in do you mean if you let them go to bed later i hope don't i imagine don't rob don't tempt fate josh i've got before we introduce or bring on

ellis i've got some uh pre-emptive salt apology i i think i've been a bit you know we did a salt the salty josh i was a bit salty last sat friday when i was out drinking oh but that's the alcohol who are you salty with well basically right so i don't know about you but when anyone says hello or something they recognize you from telly or podcast, whatever. I'm very nice and polite. And if someone's rude to me when I'm sober, I'm like, okay, yeah, whatever. And I sort of just ignore it or just move on.

But when I'm pissed, I go in. And I don't go in like aggressive or rude. I just sort of like treat them like a heckler in a comedy club. And it's too brutal when you're opposite someone. So what happened? I'm off my head, right? I'm pissed up outside on Olcompton Street. Yeah.

And we sat down. What time is it? 9.30, 10. My mate's gone to the bar. And it's still a pandemic, isn't it? So you're supposed to pre-reserve seats and sit in your seats, yeah? And anyway, also as well, when I'm a bit pissed, the working class chip on the shoulder pops out to say hello.

Sat there, and then this girl came and sat down. She was probably about 22, very raw. You know, like raw, where's my backy? You know that trend on TikTok? Do you know that trend on TikTok? Where they say our private score, posh you are. And she's very confident and posh, dressed a bit like rough and ready, but you know that she's absolutely minted.

One of those sort of – and she sat there and was like, are you some sort of comedian, you are? My friend said you're like a comedian, but are you like Jack Whitehall? And I was like – she obviously – I'm not saying she knows who I am, but I'm obviously not Jack Whitehall. You know Jack Whitehall. I couldn't be any less Jack Whitehall? And I was like, she obviously, I'm not saying she knows who I am, but I'm obviously not Jack Whitehall. You know Jack Whitehall. I couldn't be any less Jack Whitehall. Could I really?

It's pretty odd. At no point when doing this podcast have I thought, have I mistakenly done this with Jack Whitehall? Yeah. And then also I'm like, I'm not, you know,

and she may have no idea who I am, that's fine, but it's quite rude to go up to someone and go, I don't know who you are. When I got the train home from London, there was plenty of people on that train I didn't know who they are. I didn't go up to every one of them and go, who are you? You weren't walking along Old Compton Street going, hey, guys, it's me.

Oh, yeah. I was having a drink. And she's come out and over to my table, right? Anyway, and so she was doing that, being a bit rude or whatever. And I was like, oh, I'm a comedian. She went, yeah, but what? Who are you? And I was like, oh, I'm a comedian. She went, yeah, but what? Who are you?

What are you doing? And then I sort of got the ump. And then this is where I went a bit salty. And I said, let's not worry about who I am anymore. Who are you? Because I know who you are. You're a posh little private school girl that's had everything handed to her. And you swung around London because you've got loads of money, not giving a fuck, walking over to people people's table taking a seat because you've never

been told in your life giving it the last one in front of your mates because you've had everything you ever wanted and had a life of privilege now you're giving me shit that's who you are oh my word that is amazing but it was awful and then she went you're a prick i went well at least we know what i am now and then she left and then and then my mate opposite meant to me went oh that i couldn't even watch that oh my god so brutal and i so what i'd like to do is i went in too hard and too harsh i apologize to that girl she wasn't on her best behavior but i wasn't either and you shouldn't go down to that level so do you want a preemptive apology do you want to know what her name is oh no she'd been in contact well let's see her side of it from this email no no i'm joking of course

oh god no yeah oh but yeah so i apologize i was drunk and i and i it was embarrassing behavior really but i just got the umbrage. We've all said things when we're drunk, Rob. We've all said things. Normally, I'm quite good at just sort of ignoring it and stuff. Because you were doing it to warm me up. But anyway, yeah, a pre-emptive sort of apology. I mean, should I admit that I said that, Josh?

I think that's fine. I think you are. Yeah, but I know I was in the wrong. I was being a bit out of order. I also think you were provoked. I think it is an odd decision for someone to come up to you to tell you that they don't know who you are yeah and and sat sat down on my table in a penny d that's not like you're not allowed to have tables do you know what that's against the guidelines exactly so really you were

saving lives by by getting her leave. What's the line? Space, save lives, try to absolutely rip apart the foundations of a person's upbringing. For no other reason than you've had 10 pints and six cocktails. And she was probably nice enough. I would love to know what anecdote she's currently dining out on, based on that experience. You met Rob Beckett once, didn't you?

Oh, God. Jack Whitehall's name is mud around the... I'd love it if she actually just thinks I'm Jack Whitehall still. That'd be a right touch. She's gone home. She's Googled Jack Whitehall. She's gone, he went to bloody public school and he's throwing it around at me.

He's a right one to talk. He went to Marlborough College. Do you know what, though? He sure looks better in photographs. Yeah, he looked rough that night. How many drinks did he have? He was so pissed he went blonde. Right, now our guest, Ellis James,

who is lockdown parenting hell royalty. Yes. I think in the first run of lockdown one, he had it argued, had one of the worst hands dealt to him where he had two young children and his wife is he was writing a book and she had a bad back. So as do a lot more of the heavy, literal heavy lifting. He was waking up. Was it 5 a.m. every day?

Yes. Yeah. And then they had no garden and he was just sat on a ledge looking out the window like a lonely cat. He got the text from the government saying that he couldn't go outside as well. Yes, he had to shield. He had to shield. It was hilariously bad. But it's a bit better for him now, and he's back on in episode 100.

So enjoy Ellis James. Ellis James, you're back. Hello. The first ever returning guest Oh, what a compliment that is It really is Is it a compliment to your parenting? Is it a compliment to how bad the situation you were in the first time was?

Do you know what? I think it's a compliment To the fact that of all of the different comedic mediums I've tried I've really flourished when it comes to podcasting. Yeah, sure, I did stand-up for 15 years. Yeah, I've acted in sitcoms. Yeah, I've done radio shows. But podcasting, I think I'm a bit like John Lennon

or Paul McCartney when it comes to podcasting. I took a nascent medium and I really run with it and I'm probably the best one. Yeah, and the weird thing is you actually look funnier than you sound. You would assume it would be the other way around. I think, though, maybe, Ellis, that you were considered the person that had had it hardest on this podcast.

You almost became like an urban sort of folk legend of the podcast until we had you on. And then it was confirmed that you did have it quite bad the first time around. So I think we're intrigued to know how. I've just re-listened to your podcast, Ellis. Oh, yeah. You were getting up at 10 to 5.

Yeah. No, there. Every morning. were getting up at 10 to 5 yeah um every morning i think that my son has re-listened to that podcast because how is it probably a month after we recorded that it all clicked and he started waking up at 7 a.m and i i could honestly tell you it was like being on... It just clicked overnight. Pretty much, yeah. It was like being on a holiday. We had a very strange couple of days where he was waking up. It must have been during the school holidays or something because Betty's a late riser, my daughter, our daughter.

So we don't set alarms because he was our alarm, Stefan, my now two-year-old son. And then there were a couple of weird days where Betty wasn't at school, so he must have not been setting an alarm. It must have been the weekend where he was waking up like at half past eight and then at nine o'clock. And then at one day he woke up at half past nine to the extent that we went in and checked on him.

I thought, wow, this is amazing. And then he settled down at about 7am. That's ideal for me. No problem at all wow over the last did you do anything well over the last week oh no oh no basically you texted me five six days ago saying do you fancy coming on lockdown parenting hell again as a returning guest i said yeah no problem and he woke up at 6 50 i thought yeah i can handle that and then it was 6 4040 then at 6.30 I said

oh this isn't great isn't it he's shaving off 10 minutes every morning then it was 6.20 this morning it was 5.58 I thought you fucking bastard now I think what's

happened is we are recording this in late March and I think what's happened is we are recording this in late March. And I think what's happened is it's the light. It's now light in the morning. It's now light at about 6 a.m. So when I go into his room, even though there's a blackout blind, there is treated with a reverence that you would usually reserve for the Turin Shroud.

I mean, no wonder the Blitz was so bad, because if this constitutes a blackout blind now, with all the technology, what the fuck was going on then? Did you know what I'm talking about? Disco lights on the windows. That is such a cockney observation. 50 years before you were born, you can't stop going on about the blitz

you don't know how hard we every night it was fucking every night I mean they completed Coventry and Liverpool don't they in Plymouth and Swansea I mean the East End and London where I grew up by accident they were aiming for us

and it was completely flattened by the bloody Germans. Anyway, so I think it's the light, right? I think the light is creeping in. So last night I took such care over this blackout blind, but it's still creeping

in on the sides, and then there's a blind, and then there's the curtains. The curtains are rubbish. The curtains are white. I don't know why we bothered with those curtains. White curtains? Basic value thing for you, isn't it? White with a picture of a, I don't know,

of... Fucking unicorn or giraffe. Yeah, what's the multicoloured elephant called? Elmer. Elmer, yes. They're like Elmer curtains or something. I don't know. It's complete bullshit. So, yeah, I'm worried. I think it's because the summer's on the way,

but obviously the clocks go back on Saturday night, so 6 a.m. will become 5 a.m. I mean, 7 a.m. We had six. I really thought this was it. We had seven or eight months of that. And had you done anything? We did do sleep or eight months of that and is it anything had you done anything we did do sleep training but is that what did it we did sleep training the first time and

then he got ill he had a really bad cold this is pre-lockdown and then because we had to go in and cuddle him and give milk and stuff because he had this really bad cold he kind of forgot all of the sleep training so then we did sleep training again yeah because i think the common cold does give memory loss because i i basically learned pythagoras had a cold and i couldn't tell you anything about angles now i forgot how to write i live in a big circle it's like the roundhouse by us i couldn't handle it and then what happened the second time it really clicked and then he was sleeping through the night but he was he was an early riser and then his rising just became later and later and then this was settled down at about between seven and quarter past seven great but

i think what's happened is now because he's two he was two in january so he was three months ago i think we're now entering the zone of maybe dropping his afternoon nap because he still has quite a substantial afternoon nap which is also a ball ache in itself because that's when I tend to do a lot of stuff when he's asleep. How long is he having a nap for? You what? How long is his nap? Oh, I thought you said, what's he having a nap for? Because he's tired.

You what? You what, Rob? Lazy bastard. I thought you phrased the question in a really weird way. What's he having a nap for? Your baby's a bit tired, isn't he? Yeah. Come on, do me a favour.

What's he drinking all that milk for? Rob's never met a kid. It's quite a weird podcast to do, actually. I've made it all up. I'm a character actor. He's winging it. It's finally been exposed podcast to do, actually. I've made it all up. I'm a character actor. He's winging it. It's finally been exposed. I'm rather trained.

It's all based on his very fuzzy memories of his own childhood. How long's the nap? Oh, about an hour and a half. Yeah, it's chunky, isn't it? Yeah, which is chunky. So I'm beginning to think that might be the problem, which is a problem in itself because, you know, especially the weekend, that's when you do a lot of stuff.

And when he wasn't going to the Childminder during the, you know, during the third lockdown, the sort of January to March one, that little nap was invaluable. But obviously he's two now, so maybe if we drop that, his sleep might settle down. Oh, it's the classic thing isn't it the uh the attempting to kind of reason with the sleep of a child yeah well and are you still doing mornings and is he because is he is his back okay now because that was the problem before she had a bad back so you had to do a lot more of the child care

yeah well what happened then was uh Izzy's writing a novel, which is getting published in July. It's a very, very stressful process writing a novel. So I continued to do the mornings because, honest to God, right, we'd be in bed and it'd be like one in the morning and she'd be like, there are too many commas on page six. So it completely ruined her sleep so she'd be like we'd be asleep i'd have been asleep for about i don't know an hour and a

half or whatever so it ruined her sleep the stress of writing this novel so i then said well i'll i'll do the mornings um for that reason. And because he was waking up at seven, it was fine. But now it's getting earlier and earlier, I think possibly because of sunlight waking him up. Also, he's so enthusiastic. God, I went in this morning at 10.6. So enthusiastic.

He was jumping up and down on the bed. He's getting more and more enthusiastic every morning by 10 minutes, isn't he? What's he enthusiastic for? Well, the thing he used to do, which was, I mean, they're so different, my two kids. So Betty used to, she would often laugh herself awake, which was an amazing way to wake up. But he used to wake up and it was like he'd been dipped in boiling water. It was absolutely mental. You know, he was so upset straight, straight away.

But now he's like, yes, life. So I go in there. I'm like, oh, okay, well, you're clearly not going to go back to sleep, are you? Because, you know, you're jumping down on the bed and having a fantastic time the other thing that um made him sleep for longer was when we moved him into his own room interestingly i thought that was going to be a big problem well yeah when someone's screaming in the night about semicolons it's hard to get a bit of time it's not ideal is it but when we moved him from the cot into his bed in his own room.

He slept for much longer. And the reason we had to move him out of his cot was, I mean, Betty, we didn't realise how lucky we had it, really. She would, as a sort of two-year-old, sit on the sofa and idly flick through a magazine like an old lady at the dentist. Whereas what he likes doing is climbing so he will drag stools across the kitchen floor then he'll climb up the stool then he'll get on the table and then he'll put toys in the microwave all in the time it's taking me to bend over and

charge my phone that age as well when they're not they're confident but they will just fall and smack their head they're not. They've not got the ability. It's nuts. There's nothing he won't climb on. And he will, yeah, I've seen him flip over the side of the sofa. You know that mad climbing, is it parkour? Parkour. Where they do it like on buildings in sort of Paris city centre.

That's what he's going to be doing, I think, when he's older, because he's completely fearless. But I mean no disrespect to you or Izzy, but where the fuck's he got that from? Oh, I mean, Izzy's definitely the mother, because I saw that happen live. Serious questions have been raised about who the father is. No, but you can be very enthusiastic, Ellis.

Not at that time of the morning. Were you a climber as a kid? No, no. I mean, the reason we had to move him into his own bedroom was because he woke up... Oh, this was... I mean, I can't even remember why this had happened. But at one stage, he was in the cot in our room.

We were in the spare room. And then Betty was in what is now his room. I don't even know how this came about. But anyway, so I... So he'd got the master bedroom. He had the master bedroom, yeah. All set up as he wanted. He had a big screen.

Plum and prime. Pull up bar. So I heard him cry, and I thought, okay, he's up now. So I looked at my watch, and I thought, okay, 5.58 or whatever. And then I went into our bedroom bedroom and he was on the floor and I thought and I

I mean God I panicked I was like how has he done this so I put him back in the cot to see how he was doing and he was lifting himself up

and then he'd flip his legs over and then out and he was escaping that way how old was he oh he wasn't even two at this stage he was about 18 months or something

yeah has he got loads of like brown fur all over him climbs up with his feet he um he's like spider-man it's unbelievable their fit their fearlessness they kids like that it was mad there are these two little shelves that are sort of arm's length apart for him in the kitchen. And often he just lifts himself up and kind of swings there. But the strange thing with him is that he's very slow to speak. So Betty didn't walk for ages and ages and ages, but was very quick at talking. And you could have a conversation with her when she was two. I watched back videos of her the other day when she was his age. And she's having a conversation with him. He started walking very quickly and is very physical and likes climbing, especially, and runs everywhere. But he hasn't got an enormous vocabulary. Have you raised a jock?

How? You've run the captain of the football team. Well, his child mind used to be a hairdresser. And obviously no hairdressers were open because of lockdown. So Izzy was cutting his fringe. But she said, oh, I'll cut his hair for him. And she's like a, you know, she's given him a very South London haircut. She got the clippers out.

He's only two. He's got a fade. He looks like someone who would have bullied Rob at school. He's got a fade and he's climbing and doing push-ups. Side party like Scott Parker, the fuller manager. You can take a baby to a South London barber's and they'll make him look 25 with one haircut and a bit of gel. It's remarkable.

I know. It's such a South London thing as well. Yeah, South Londoners are obsessed with making their babies look older. They've got loafers on and a Ralph Lauren polo shirt and skinny jeans. He's three! Just let him wear

bungarees for a bit. Yes, the Ralph Lauren polo shirt. Like they're in Charlois at Euro 2000 and they're going to start throwing sort of plastic chairs at foreign police. No, but it's like at barbecues. If you go to a Southland barbecue,

all the children were dressed in the same clothes as their mums and dads. Yeah. It's so funny. What's he wearing, Alice? Is he into football then? Because you're big into football. He is obsessed with football

to the extent that you could get rid of 100% of his toys. As long as he had one ball, he'd be happy. It's the only thing he wants to do. And he can catch and he can throw and you can play catch with him. Alice, how happy are you?

Well, do you know what? I am glad, actually, because I don't like rugby. So my dad went to the school where all of the great Welsh outside halves went to. Max Boyce wrote the song The Fly Half Factory. That's basically about my dad's old school. The most Welsh thing I've ever heard. I know.

And I don't understand any of it. So the glamour position in rugby is the outside half or the fly half. Which one's fly half then? Number 10. Is that Johnny Wilkinson? The outside half. Yeah. And oddly, all of these flair players all grew up pretty much in the same valley

and all went to the same school, which was my dad's school. It's just this odd, strange, hotbed of talent. Like the Jamaican sprinters? Yeah, in the same way that when Celtamaican sprinters yeah in the same way that when celtic won the european cup they were all born within 30 miles of the ground most of them within five months of ground it's a bit like that and that's the school my dad went to so he's rugby obsessed and i i just don't like it and i think he always thought that certainly when i was an adult we'd go to the pub together and go to games together,

that kind of thing. That sort of didn't really happen because it's a sport I don't particularly like, and he doesn't like football. So the fact that he's so obsessed with football has made me think, oh, great, if he maintains this, and obviously if he falls out of love with it or loses interest when he's older, that's fine,

and I will encourage whatever it is he wants to do. But at the moment it is, it is looking good for a season ticket. Yeah. Cut to you watching him on the half pipe before he does a bit of parkour. And he doesn't do parkour anymore. Well, this is the awkward thing because we live a stone's throw from,

from Sellers Park, from Crystal Palace. Yeah. He's definitely going to be a Palace fan. And he's already got the haircut. He's already got the haircut, yeah. So I don't know. I mean, I'd like him to follow the Swans.

It's a good crop to support, though, Palace. I like Palace fans because Palace aren't successful. So Palace fans have a kind of, quite a realistic approach to what football can be like and how good football can be, which I think is quite nice, actually. Do you think he could be a footballer, Ellis? And by that, I mean, have you in your mind played out that scenario? I tell you the scenario I've played out several times. He is eligible for Wales, England and Scotland.

Have you checked? Because his father was Scottish. Oh, right. So the old grandparent rule. And the idea of, at, say, under-16s level, England are interested and Wales are interested. And he's there in his Ralph Lauren polo shirt in his side parting and fade.

And he's like, Dad, I just don't feel Welsh. I'm like, that's fine. You do what you want to do. Obviously you'd rather him play for Wales, but if he was top, top level, if he was like, say he was top level player, like Harry Kane, would you want him to play

for England where he may have more of a chance to play more tournaments or stick to Wales because of your roots? What do you think, Rob? I'd like him to do what Gareth Bale and Ryan Giggs and Anne Ramsey did and play for his country, Wales. His country's England, Ellis. That's what I'm saying.

His country's England, yeah, and he is English. Also, on top of that, I know your great love is the Welsh football team, but your child's success. He may never get to a major tournament. If he's the only good player playing for Wales, would you want to see that? We qualified for 2016. He qualified for 2020. We came agonisingly close to qualifying for 2018, Rob.

And then what happens when Bale retires? He could tip the balance. Yeah, but when Bale and Ramsey aren't there. And if Bale retires he could tip the balance yeah but when Bale and Ramsey aren't there and if Bale carries on playing for another 20 years

they could play in the same side here's a question for you Alice and then we'll we'll go back onto we'll get away from football

he can either play for Crystal Palace in England or Cardiff in Wales as a big Swansea fan that's got to hurt I would say I'd say I'd say Cardiff and Wales? As a big Swansea fan, that's got to hurt. I'd say Cardiff and Wales, actually.

He scores the winner in a Cardiff-Swansea derby and it means Cardiff win the league. Yeah. I mean, that's... And he does that thing where he goes to the Swansea fans and puts his finger over his mouth to say, be quiet. And he kisses the badge

because he's never known to hate Cardiff because he hates Brighton because he's a Palace fan. He kisses the Cardiff badge. The kissing the badge thing, we'd have to have a discussion about that. What would you do if you go, Dad, I'm sorry, but I just got carried away. And, you know, I don't really care about Swansea because I grew up in London. I just kissed it so that the Cardiff fans would love me. Well, that I could cope with. It would be harder if you went, I don't really care about Swansea because I grew up in London. I just kissed it so that the Cardiff fans would love me. Well, that I could cope with.

It would be harder if you went, I kissed the badger, Dad, because I absolutely love the club and I hate the Swans. They're badly dressed, badly run, scruffy. Do you, like, share any hobbies with your daughter? I'll be honest, I know you're into crafts, Ellis. Well, now then. Are you into crafts?

Before we enter this discussion, I'd like to defend myself a little bit before we start talking about craft. I love drawing. Love to draw. I love colouring in. Really good at colouring in between the lines. I think my colour choices,

especially when you're allowed to express yourself a little bit, great. Crafts, what a waste of fucking time. And it's so messy. Coloured sand. Beads. Jesus Christ, beads. Beads.

Have you done aqua beads yet? Oh my God, it's so messy. It's so hard and they crumble. And they look shit. What's an aqua bead? And they get wound up as well because it doesn't look like it does on the box. They're like little balls that you put into a plastic tray

and then if you put them all in the right places and the right colours, it makes a scene or a person or a character. But then you have to put water on them so they stick together but then they always want to play with them as soon as they've done it and then once it has dried they break it immediately and cry and it looks nothing like the picture and it is about as tricky as the large hand-drawn collider it is i mean my god i was frustrated at the end of it and then what happens is you think right either i do it and it looks vaguely like it does on the box and betty goes on my phone

and then you've got to ask the question who is this for or she does it and because she's six it doesn't look like it does on the box then she gets upset drawing i like admittedly I would say my skill set is occasionally limited. What are your go-tos? This is a very, this is even for Josh's other podcasts this would be niche.

What's the sex fetish one? No, no. No, no, no. The 90s football one. There was an architect called Archibald Leach who designed football stands at the start of the 20th century. I think probably his most famous examples are Villa Park, Home of Aston Villa and Ibrox, Home of Rangers.

And I am very good at drawing Archibald Leach-esque football stands. Oh, my God. Betty will draw. Get out, Oh my God. Betty will draw... I'm getting out, mate. God. Betty will draw... Sounds like the hobby of a widow. Just leave him to it.

It's the only thing that brings him happiness. So Betty will draw, I don't know, someone from Frozen, and I will draw an Archibald leech main stand. And what does she think about that? She finds my interest in football quite, she finds it quite entertaining, I think. So sometimes she says stuff like,

I'm going to treat you later because you've been a nice daddy today. And I'll say, oh yeah, in what way she'll say you can watch one minute of football. I'll go, oh, yeah. In what way she'll say, you can watch one minute of football. I'll go, oh, thanks. That sounds great. Yeah, cheers. Do you get to watch football on a Sunday? Because Josh doesn't get to watch much.

No, no, not really, because she finds it very boring. Izzy doesn't like it. And I watched a bit of the Wales game with Steph the other night, actually. And he was fascinated by it. And every time they kicked the ball, he'd say, kick, kick, kick, kick. So I think probably in two years' time, it will be 50-50 then in the house. I have the football on. No one likes the football in the house, apart from me,

but I just have it on on a Sunday in the background. It's just that's what happens on a Sunday. I think that's because we're not in the room with the TV because we spend a lot of our time in the kitchen. Get a telly in the kitchen. Get a telly in the kitchen, Rob. Why are you not doing that? Because it's the kitchen.

Why, what are you doing in there? Cooking. All day? No, we're not watching TV in the kitchen, Rob. Why, because it would be too much fun? And your house looks too nice. Get a telly on the wall TV in the kitchen, Rob. Why? Because it would be too much fun? And your house looks too nice? Get a telly on the wall and fucking enjoy yourself, mate. You can chop your onions watching Super Sunday.

Why have you not got it on? Nothing's happening apart from carnage in a house full of kids. You might as well have a bit of green in the corner on a telly. Anyway, that's my role. Even when we have people over, I have the football on in the background just as something my that's my role I don't even we have people over I have the football on in the background just there's something to do with a bit of small talk just ticking over in the background but I understand you know if if you can't but I am pro kitchen telly does your daughter get jealous of your shared love of football with your son Ellis

no do you know what I going to blow my own trumpet. Our greatest achievement, and I'm not quite sure how we've managed it, is that they get on very, very well. He absolutely worships her. So he's two and she's six. And he will often make a beeline for her, and he'll just sit on the sofa with his arm around her. Aww.

So I don't know how long this is going to carry on for, but no, there's no real jealousy. The thing we do have is because there's a slightly big gap in age, four years, he often just ruins her day. So she will spend ages setting stuff up like like she'll get her lego cards or her yo-yo cards and she'll put them all up in a sort of in in some arrangement that means a lot to her and it will spend her he'll spend ages on it and she'll do the same with lego and then he'll come in and he'll just smash it all up and it will take him 15 seconds to destroy something that's taken her half an hour. That probably will end, I would imagine,

in the next year or so where you'll be able to reason with him a bit more. Yeah, and they can play together then. Yeah, his speech isn't good enough to reason with him yet. Yeah. So you can tell him not to do something, but he won't understand why. How's she getting on at school? How's the school going? Is she in her first year or reception?

She is in year one. And hang on, I'm just going to adjust my glasses. No one was expecting that. What was happening with the glasses? What's wrong with your glasses? Do you know what? I need to adjust them. The headphones had moved them up onto an angle.

So I looked a bit like, you know, I was wearing Norman Wisdoms, like being in an explosion. So it was just very irritating. She's in year one. So she started year one in September. And then there was an outbreak of COVID in the school in December, so she missed pretty much all of December. When you said there was an outbreak of COVID,

I thought you were really giving us a very, as if we hadn't been around. There was an outbreak of COVID, so that really affected schooling. Was it an outbreak of again? Sorry, what was the condition? Yeah, it sounds pretty bad. It's come all the way over from China. It's going to be on the news. Yeah.

Watch out for it. Yeah, you watch out for this. Yeah. Anyway, so that happened in December. So she missed pretty much all of December because someone in her year had it. So they all had to self-isolate for two weeks. And then it was the christmas holidays and then obviously they they stopped schools and they you know the first day that of that term in january when they went back and i think i found i personally found this lockdown harder than the

first one because it was winter so as often it was you know it's dark which coming from you the man who had the worst time in the first lockdown of anyone I know. Also, I don't know what your experience was of this, or maybe your listeners. There was seemingly far more emphasis on homeschooling this time around. I mean, looking back, we did shamefully little homeschooling in lockdown one. Whereas three, the sort of January to April one,

that first week I was at home and Izzy had to submit her first draft of the novel. So she was locked away writing and finishing everything off. And I said, so, you know, I look after children. Don't worry about it. So I was working in the evening and in the day I was looking after the kids. And as I said, you know, because he's only two, he's only little, she would try and do some stuff on Microsoft Teams, homeschooling,

and then he would throw a plastic fried egg at the screen and then she'd get upset. And then I would just think, oh, fuck this. So I'd sort of say, okay, the lesson's over now. And we didn't do anything in that first week. And the school called me on the Friday and they said, what's going on? And they said, have you got a laptop in the house?

I said, yeah, I've got a laptop. And they said, all right, have you got the internet? Did you say, excuse me, are you aware of my job? I'm podcasting 24-7. Thank you very much. And they said, have you got internet access and that kind of stuff? I said, yeah, I've got all of that.

It's just my partner was very busy at work and my son is too. So he was, it's quite hard for her to sit her down and work with her. Because what I found at her age being six, I think even if she'd been eight, I'd have been able to leave her to sit her down and work with her. Because what I found at her age being six, I think even if she'd been eight, I'd have been able to leave her to it. But what would happen with homeschooling,

if she missed a little bit of explanation at the start, it's very difficult then to say to the teacher, oh, you know, I don't understand. Can we start again? In a way that they would be able to in the classroom. And if she thought that she was being left behind, she'd get really upset. Yeah, we had that with my five-year-old

where it was like someone had to be with her the whole time during the lesson. So if you have got a two-year-old, it's impossible because you're trying to control that child and find out what the instructions are. And then it's horrible because then your kid feels really separated from the group and upset.

It's better just not to do it almost so i used to find that if she missed a sentence of explanation at the start she would then get very upset she couldn't do it and she was doing one thing she had to write something out she was doing a lesson called topic when they were having to write about their weekend i think and. And what happened, she'd written something and then she'd realised she'd misspelt it. So she'd rubbed it out. But then the rubbing out had taken a couple of minutes and the teacher said, okay, if you could finish your sentences in 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Oh, that's horrible.

And she hadn't finished and then she got really upset and she couldn't tell the teacher that she'd been rubbing something out. And because I was looking after him as well, I just thought, fuck, it's not this. I mean, I'll just let her play. And then the school called me. So then obviously I had to make far more of an effort. And then Izzy's workload eased a little bit.

But to have the two of them in the same room was practically impossible. Yeah. We had parents' evening the other day, even though she'd been at school a week and i was like am i telling you are you telling me what she's been like who's in charge who's leading this and at one point she said talking about like she was writing in like what she did at the weekend book and she was saying oh uh her writing's got a bit better because last term you know every monday she just used to put oh i went to the park at the weekend. And I went, that's all we fucking did.

What do you want her to say? Even if she could write more, we didn't do anything else. So that's not wrong. That's all we did was go to the park. We did nothing else. I mean, year one, so it's five and six-year-olds. Yeah. So I'd sit her down and say, what are you doing now?

And they'd say, oh, phonics. And I'd be like, okay, never heard of that. And I'd say say what are you doing now and they'd say oh phonics and I'd be like ok never heard of that and I'd say what are you doing now then oh we're doing split digraphs ok never heard of a digraph so not sure how to split it and I was like wow

and it was just stuff I'd you know I've got a degree like I'm not thick but I Wow. And it was just stuff I'd, you know, I've got a degree. I'm not thick. But I had no idea what a lot of it was. I was having to Google a six-year-old's work. It was embarrassing. What were we doing? I remember learning the letters, but I don't really remember learning much else at primary school. Is it a completely different world now?

I discussed this on the radio show because split digraphs and digraphs and phonics, they were just words I'd never heard before. And it actually makes sense. I think it probably has helped Betty read. I mean, she's read to a lot and her reading for her age is very good. And we had one teacher from Canada or America say I can't believe you're bothering with phonics such a waste of time then other teachers were sort of piling in on her and say no it does it does work if you if you do it but I don't remember that I mean primary school I remember making an advent calendar I remember playing with sand

went down the slide on my front without putting my hands in front of my face. Landed on my lip. Got a split lip. Sort of that is it, really. Split lip lessons. Well, my five-year-old come home and went, oh, yeah, could we be doing compound words today? Yeah, yeah.

And I was like, what's that about cowboy? Because two words that are separate on their own, and then they make a word put together. I'm like like i didn't know what that was yeah yes i mean i know i know the word cowboy i've used it a few times yeah yeah it's amazing isn't it bloody builders you get in southeast london eh rob exactly but yeah it's unbelievable that kind of stuff and it's just i yeah so what i found was in in lockdown one because it was spring going into summer life is just a bit less depressing in spring and summer in my experience.

But this time round, you know, we had to have her in front of the computer. There tended to be a lesson at 9am. You know, you've got to have them in front of the computer ready. And then you've got to have the other, you know, we had to have Steph ready as well. And then if POS, an adult with Betty, otherwise, you know, you didn't want her to get upset. And also it was, it was, the odd thing was I'm not her teacher. So occasionally I'd say, right, you've got a, you've got maths lesson at 11. And she said, I don't want to do it. And I said, well, you've got to do it. And she'd say, but I'm at home.

And I'd say, I know you're at home, but I'm, you're at school as well. And she said, no, I'm not. I know it doesn't feel like you're at school, but I, I'm kind of your teacher. I know you're at home but I'm you're at school as well she's no I'm not yeah I know it doesn't feel like you're at school but I I'm kind of your teacher no you're not you're my daddy yes listen yeah do it because school are calling me my cards have already been marked and I don't want to bring shame into your life. So what was it like when she went back to school? How did you feel? She loves it, yeah. She enjoys school and she was excited to go back.

This was something that's happened since. You sent me a video at Christmas. Are you aware of what you'd bought Betty for Christmas? Some kind of trailer? Oh, yeah, yeah. They're very popular in America. So you wear this Rob. No.

Can you send it to the group? We can pop it on Instagram if Ellis doesn't mind. A lot of your listeners, I would imagine we'll have these. They're really, really big in America. So it's, it's a wagon that you pull along.

So you put the kids in the wagon and she'd seen an advert for it on, you know, Nickelodeon or something and i'd never heard of it or seen it and then we we took them to the park in it um so you sort of sit them in the wagon and they can that they could be strapped in and then you can put other stuff you put blankets on them when it's cold and that kind of thing and then we passed one of the mums at school and she's american she said yeah, when we lived in California, that's what all the parents do.

But they love it. So you just run her around in a wagon and you're the horse? Yeah. You're not on all fours, are you? No. It was quite weird because I think in America, they're just seen as a practical way of getting lots of kids around. Yeah.

Right. Has it got a roof? Did you ever once have the roof? No. But it's a bit like if she'd asked for a buggy for Christmas. It's quite a weird thing to ask for, but they love it in there. They think it's such fun. In lockdown one, or lockdown three, I should say,

something really weird happened because the weather was bad because it snowed and it rained and it was just generally cold and a bit miserable and there was this far more of an emphasis on um on homeschooling i would go for days without leaving the house i looked at my phone on one day and i'd done 312 steps i thought this is crazy. They weren't pulling you around in the wagon, were they? No.

So it was quite a different experience, the third one. Do you, in a weird way, feel nostalgic in any way for that first lockdown? I'm the kind of person, Josh, right, that if I was held captive like Terry Waite or John McCarthy and they moved me to a different cell,

within an hour I'd be nostalgic for cell number one. So, yeah, I mean, I think with the first lockdown there was a kind of feeling that everyone was in it together, I thought. Yeah. I mean, I think with the first lockdown, there was a kind of feeling that everyone was in it together, I thought. Yeah. And I would say that, I mean, this is purely anecdotal evidence and observational. I thought far fewer people broke the rules from what I remember in lockdown one. Yeah. There was a lot more of a stigma attached, wasn't there? Yeah. It was by lockdown three, I thought some people were taking the piss a bit.

And then obviously that drives resentment. Yeah, and I think people were working. No one was really working in the first one, so you had more time. But then in the third one, people were working and having to homeschool and look after their kids. So it just got too much. Yeah, I mean, it's embarrassing really,

but the house is a complete state. Certainly, I mean, I was obviously very lucky that I didn't lose my job in the first lockdown, like plenty of people did. And obviously, lots of people were furloughed. But you cannot homeschool and actually be with the child to ensure that they understand everything and that they can work the tech and stuff.

Talking of working the tech, after a few weeks, some of the naughtier kids in Betty's class realised that they could mute the teacher. And then once that happened, it was absolute chaos. Because you'd get other parents saying, yeah, sorry, miss, we can't hear you. And then she was unable to tell the naughty kid off because she was mooted.

So then you're just waiting for the naughty kid to develop a conscience and go, all right then, fine, I'm disrupting the lesson. So we had about three weeks where it worked really well. And then as soon as the naughty kids realised they could do that, it was carnage. three weeks where it worked really well and then as soon as the naughty kids realized they could do that it was carnage but i what what i realized was because betty needed um attention when she was doing homeschooling and obviously steph as well as two so you can't leave him because he'll

climb on something to do that and also work is is a very very difficult circle to square the thing i want to ask you, Al, is, because we were talking about this before we started recording, but I wanted to ask you this on air. You work in a double act with John Robbins, who doesn't have a child. And he's probably the person I know who seems to have the most time on their hands of anyone in the country.

Tell Rob about the curry John made two days ago with his day. Well, he made a curry. It's actually called a hundred clove curry. But because it's just him, he halved it to 50 cloves of garlic. So it's a curry made of 50 cloves of garlic with mustard seed and coconut milk. Is that self-harming your arse? He doesn't live with his fiancee i would too if my other half was eating out 50 can you imagine having the the time it takes me to cut and peel a one clove of garlic yeah like 50 50 clothes like if i do a meal, there's occasionally a recipe

and it'll have four cloves of garlic. And I'm like, fuck it now. Yeah. 50. Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you how he's done that. I bet he's got a telly in the kitchen. I'm standing in the kitchen with a football on doing clove after clove.

But it was a completely different experience for him. Because also he had no reason to leave the house. So obviously the children need fresh air, so you've got to take them out. And that gets you out the house. I mean, my days are pretty full, obviously, like any parent. And I would talk to him, especially on the radio, and he would have done absolutely nothing.

I don't think sometimes that in government they realised what it must have been like for single people. Yeah, fucking brilliant. Absolutely amazing. I think the mad thing is with like the difference in like occasionally weekends i'll just think what are my friends without kids doing at the weekend and it it's such a foreign experience to me yeah the thought like the thought of i've we get the the you know you get the the box meals that you you get all the ingredients right and they get and you cook it and i got one the other

day and it arrived and it said 60 minutes cooking time and that is still in the fridge and i know we're gonna throw the ingredients yeah yeah i know there is no fucking hope that meal and yes know we're going to throw the ingredients away. Yeah, yeah. I know. There is no fucking hope. And yes, Rob, we could get a TV and that might help. That's what I'm saying. We could get a 60-minute meal. Rob's pro TV in the kitchen agenda being pushed again. Exactly. 60-minute meal.

In my head, that's first half and half time. I can watch the second half while it's, you know, reducing. All I'm saying is it doesn't even have to be a telly. Get a big one, then bigger iPads in the kitchen with an app on it. And then I'd say if your other half is anti-telly in the kitchen, she can't be anti-iPad because an iPad's an iPad. But if that iPad happens to have Sky app, BT Sport app, or now TV app with the football on,

whilst you're the skin in 50 cloves of garlic, I'd just say it's a win-win all round. The thing I know with, the thing I've noticed with friends of mine who don't have children, the disdain and sneer they have for what I would regard as a treat. So I think we're probably four years away from this. I would love to buy the paper on a Sunday and read it. I actually know the circumstances in which it would happen. So I'd go and get the paper, then I'd go back to bed,

but I'd have a cup of coffee, then I'd read it. It would take me probably about an hour. And I know that I could sit in there and, you know, no kid's going to fall down the stairs or fall off the table because they put their Bing Bunny toy in the microwave and slipped. And I can just do that and I don't have to be on call. But if you told someone who didn't have children, oh, I'd love to buy a paper and read it,

they'd think, well, just do it then. Why aren't you doing that? Well, that's pathetic. But I remember my mum and dad, my mum and dad used to share a bottle of wine on a Friday night because they would tend to be picking, like I'm one of three kids, so they would be picking up, you know, me and my sisters or something on a Saturday night.

So on Friday night when we tended not to go out, they would have, like so that's two glasses each and they'd watch Have I Got News For You and that was their treat and they would talk about it in the week. And as a 17-year-old, I just think that's fucking pathetic. Have a night out, do whatever. But of course you can't have like a big bender if you're a sort of 48-year-old mother of three and you've got a full-time job and a Tuesday night.

I suppose you could, but it's problematic. Well, I think though you're at that, Josh is about to go into that period and you're at that period now as well, where you've got a child that you can't just leave on their own. Well, I've sort of gone past that point, and I saw a funny thing on TikTok where it said, the moment you can leave your two kids in another room,

knowing that they won't immediately die, is when the second part of your life begins. Yeah. And has it begun, Rob? Mine's begun. How many benders do you think you're going to do this summer rob oh mate i do you know what from i think i'm going to go easy on the 12th but once indoor opens in may i'm just going to lose my head where i want someone to pull me aside and go rob you've got to rein it in that's all i want i want want an intervention. And then if I've hit intervention level,

I know I've hit it hard enough. When do your kids wake up, Rob? They wake up about six, half six. Okay. And we, from a hangover from lockdown, we used to give them their iPads as soon as they woke up, right? And now we're not doing that

and they're just playing in the mornings and it's okay. But then we've got to be up about seven because we have to leave the house at eight to take the eldest to school so Lou normally gets up with them about half six and then I get up

and I take them to the school but she gets them ready to leave that's our contract Oh see the difference with us is we live so close to the school you could leave

because they've staggered the start times because of COVID. So Betsy starts at 9.15 and I could leave at 9.15 and be on time. Oh right, fair enough. So she starts at 9.15? She starts at 9.15.

That's late! What I've discovered though is no matter what time I get up, what time Izzy gets up, it's pretty chilled until about 8.50 and it's absolute carnage then for 20 minutes so my oldest can go in between 8 and 8 25 so it's basically school bell the bell rings at 8 25 in the morning to like start the lesson so you can i know so they can play so i normally leave the house about eight and they get there about we we're on a little walk, so about five past, ten past eight. And then she plays for 15 minutes in the playground, then goes in at 8.25.

But she finishes, what time does yours finish school? About three. So we finish at three. Oh, okay. But yeah, it's a bit earlier. That is early. I find myself, I woke up the other morning at 7.56. I was out the door walking into school at 8.01,

and I looked like I'd slept in a bush. Yeah, yeah. I look mental as well because everyone is normally, a lot of the other parents have proper jobs. So they're like either in like, you know, a suit or even like sort of smartish jeans. But I dress like a roadman when I'm not gigging. So I look like I've just done a county lines drug deal and I've dropped the kid off.

But I don't care. Chucks your bottom, his hand down the front. Yeah, exactly. Electric scooter. And I say, what are you fucking looking at, fam? It's a pleasure to catch up with you, Ellis. Thank you, Ellis. I've loved every second

of it. Thank you very much for having me. I can't believe I've got this legendary Martha status amongst your listeners. Well, you haven't now because your life's pretty sweet. Yeah, you've popped that bubble with that. You could have really ramped it up. You've undone all the good work. Well, we say that, but when the clocks go back

or forward at the weekend, I'm going to be back to getting up at 5am again. Give us a shout when you have a 4.50 and we'll get you back on now. All right then. That's the cut off. Or if Izzy's back goes, just give us a bell.

We know you're back at the coalface. Ellis James back again, Josh. He seems too happy though. Yeah, it's nice to know that, you know, there's karma and he's got his reward. Yeah. I do hope that his son becomes a footballer and plays for England. England and Cardiff. I think that's worse

for him than him not being a footballer. Yes, I think that would be worse. That would be worse. I didn't think it was a stupid question when I said, of course Wales. He's totally disregarding what his son's opportunities for success would be because obviously England have qualified for more tournaments and he's got more chance of success at a tournament with England you know historically do you know what Rob though he loves his country more than he loves his son

do you know what though I do agree though I'd rather play but then I'd say Ellis wants to play for Wales but if his son's growing up in South London he won't feel that connection to Wales will he I think it's interesting that because your daughters are growing up in the same area nominally of the country as you whereas both mine and Ellis's children are having a very different upbringing to ours in terms of where they're growing up yeah and I think geography obviously my daughters will grow up in a very middle class compared to my upbringing but i think geography has a massive impact on that especially that sort of small town mentality of like where you grew up and stuff that going back home to there be so alien to them it'll feel like they're in the middle of nowhere

when they've used to being in east london oh totally and i'm gonna say this rob yeah i wouldn't subject my daughters to supporting Plymouth at all. No, because it also is quite selfish. If she supports West Ham, I'll be fucking livid. But the thing is, though, the reason you love Plymouth is because you went as a kid and you enjoyed it. Yeah, exactly.

Elton and daughters are going to go to Crystal Palace and love it. And that's what the experience of football is going to be for them. So just because Ellis loves it doesn't mean his kids are going to enjoy that as well. You don't want to be that person that drags their kid to Swansea to watch a game that they hate just because you're living out your youth. God, that was brutal, wasn't it?

Apologies to Ellis. Absolutely destroyed him there, didn't I? He's not done that yet, but I imagine when he does and he listens back to that, it'll be a bullet to his heart. Do you know what? It's the only person I've interviewed where I've enjoyed them adjusting their glasses. That's the quality of interviewing Ellis James.

That's the quality of Ellis. And I think we should send some Cardiff kits to Ellis for his kids. Yeah, we should send two. Why don't we send two small Cardiff kits to Ellis' house? Care of lockdown parenting yeah as a reward for him doing the um the first returning guest I I bought Ant and Beck Sunderland shirts when I got invited to their 40th birthday party right and Sunderland when you bought a Sunderland shirt you got a free ticket to the game you got a free ticket to the game. You got a free ticket to the game? Yeah, so I didn't know that was the deal.

So I gave them, there was two tickets to the Sandler game in the parcel of the shirt. I almost definitely, those shirts ended up on the floor of their agent's office. Absolutely no way it's in their wardrobe. No, of course not. We should get Dec on. Do you reckon Dec will do this?

I don't know. You know him. I've never met Dec in my life. I'd text him. Have I got his number? I'll message him. Instagram. He's never coming on, is he? I don't know. You know him. I've never met Dec in my life. I'd text him. Have I got his number? I'll message him. Instagram. He's never coming on, is he?

Let's face it. I'm not. Right. Right. See you next time. See you. Bye.