Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S03 EP16: Geoff Norcott

Episode Date: September 3, 2021

ROB BECKETT & JOSH WIDDICOMBE'S PARENTING HELL S03 EP16: Geoff Norcott **TRIGGER WARNING** This episode contains discussions of miscarriage. Joining us in the studio this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant comedian, writer and political commentator - Geoff Norcott Geoff's book 'Where Did I Go Right?: How the Left Lost Me' is available now. His podcast 'What Most People Think' is available on all podcast platforms. And the email to get in touch with Geoff as discussed on the show is; [e-mail] Thanks - Rob and Josh xxx If you want to get in touch with the show here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] TWITTER: @parenting_hell INSTAGRAM: @parentinghell A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willicombe. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with your tips, advice and, of course, tales of parenting woe.

Because, let's be honest, there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing. Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hell with... Can you say Rob? Rob. Josh. Josh. Whittaker. Whittaker.

Yay. Are you giving that a yay? Come on, mate, you've got to ask more than that. You've gone in, Whitticombe's gone in. He's always a bit tasty on a Friday, Widdicombe. He's always a bit tastier in his surnames than the one that suffers. I have listened to your podcast since the beginning, and I love it. You're back in the good books.

Here is child number three. I should know what I'm doing by now, but she is my worst sleeper. Oh, no. Luckily, she's super cute and very talkative. She's only 19 months old and already telling her older brothers what to do thank you again you're both very funny and brilliantly honest if a little on the elderly side ellen and no you added that i've added that you're fucking firing today mate you're double barreled up you are double barreled up i just don't know

what anything is anymore you're like a shapeshifter. What's real? What's the email? What's Josh peppering it with? How are you? Good. I'm really good, Josh. I feel good. I feel fine. Kids are all right. Getting back to school.

The three-year-old has started her new nursery school thing, preschool thing, which is good. Oh, God. I bet there's some dads crying of the friends. Basically, you just have to play them off against each other. she goes oh i don't really want to go you go well you get met a special teacher whatever their name is and you know your sister doesn't have that at her school and then the other one goes but i want that and then you take her i go but yeah but you've got this at your so you both have to make it feel like they're getting one up on the other divide and conquer divide and conquer divide and conquer basically it's been a we're getting back

into the rhythm of going back to school and i think that's five year old starts on monday oh mate so yeah looking forward to a bit more i need a routine to get fit and healthy i've got no routine at the moment josh but you're doing a routine mate i've got routine every day when do you do your exercise i'm running into the the studio. Oh, oh. Because it's in East London, Rob, because it's at the Olympic Park. So how fast to run? It's only just, it's about a mile, mile and a half. It's not too bad. But, and how long does it take?

Well, this was the thing. The first time I decided, it was sunny, I decided to run into the studio. Yeah. But they'd already. You sound like such a, like, Piers Morgan. Yeah, this is, this shows me in such a bad way. Yeah, just run in there, have a quick shower, chat to the researchers, let's crack on, we're making TV.

Yeah, well, it gets worse, Rob. It gets worse, Rob. Oh, God, what did you do? Well, I realised that they'd already booked a car for me, but then I realised I also had a bag that I didn't want to run with. So basically... No, no, you didn't put the bag in the car. I put the bag in the car, Rob.

Josh, what have you become? But what else was I meant to do? Just fucking get in the cab. No, but I't put the bag in the car. I put the bag in the car, Rob. Josh, what have you become? But what else was I meant to do? Just fucking get in the cab. No, but I wanted to run to give me some energy. I've only had four hours sleep. Anyway, Rob. I don't think you're making right decisions. I beat the car in.

So how far is it to run? It's a mile or so. Yeah, but no, how long does that take? I don't know. I'm sorry, about 10 minutes? So a 10-minute run. Yeah, but no, how long does that take? I don't know. I've done run. Oh, sorry, about 10 minutes? So a 10-minute run. Yeah, so you get a bit of a sweat on.

You feel like you've done something, and then you're at the thing. And then I got there, and the car pulled up. It was fucking amazing. It's like a Top Gear challenge. Yeah, it was like a Top Gear, because he obviously had to go around the one-way system of Hackney. Meanwhile, I knew the roads like the back of my hand, because I was on foot. Yeah. It was like a brilliant advert for running

you're an urban warrior I don't know how that's really environmentally you shouldn't have a car driving through London with a bag in it because you don't want it on your back it's a big bag I had to take in

my laptop and all of my change of clothes with my shoes and all my clothes for the show. So it was a huge kind of sport. It was an awkward. It was a sports bag. It was like a sports holdall, should we say. The kind of bag that a terrorist would transport guns in.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, okay, sure. So you just popped it in a car and let that, yeah, okay, fair enough. It had a lovely journey. And some people say, you know, people on TV lose touch. Yeah, but it was... That's not your routine now, is it?

That was just a one-off. That's not my routine. It was just because the car was already booked. Because the other option is... I'm not saying I wouldn't do it again, Rob. I'm not saying it wasn't thrilling. So do you think i can never do that again rob i don't think you can make a habit of it but i do think if you if you didn't take the car it's sort of a waste of money because they're gonna have to pay for that car journey anyway

and the driver you know wants to get money so he needs to be paid for his journey so you don't want to make him not earn money for that drive yeah but i don't think you could possibly make it as a regular occurrence but i think that in that situation was fine i'm gonna go in today and i'm just gonna i don't want to take my keys on the run so my keys are gonna go in the car and then i'm gonna run in separately yeah i think that's i think that's a good idea just give them your door key and then run off oh you you teased up a panic attack josh oh yeah i told you my panic attack six years ago i was very overworked rob he's gonna say overweight then and i was like you've never been overweight i was very overweight i was very i was very overworked it normally comes from being overworked

and i think i've worked a bit too much recently yeah i was in the middle of a tour and there's various things going on and then i had to do uh christmas live at the apollo and it was like lunchtime yeah and then i had to go to Leeds to do a tour show. Okay. And I had loads of other stuff going on. So you had to do a live at the Apollo show during the day and then go to Leeds that night? To do a tour show. Okay.

That is busy. And I had to like work out which material I was going to. Yeah. Because that's hard because you're doing two totally different things. I had to do a sprint and then a marathon and it's hard because you can't get your head in the right place. And I didn't want to burn this material, et cetera, et cetera. It was all very stressful.

And you had to run to Leeds. And the train had to go four miles an hour because it was taking my bag behind me. I do bloody go four miles an hour on our network. I don't know. I'm all right. Rail replacement service. Yeah.

Bloody slow bus. Bloody running is a rail replacement, if you ask me. Is it not fun? I'm going to laugh. Is this what you want? Is this the humour people are looking for these days? Is this what you want, you cheap fucks? This is free, which means we can do whatever the fuck we want.

Josh, tell me when you got panicked. So I was in the... I had a panic attack on the floor of the toilet in King's Cross First Class Lounge. Sorry, I didn't laugh, but that's a funny place to have one. I know. So you was in the King's Cross First Class Lounge and you went to the toilet and laid on the floor and panicked?

Yeah. Or did you panic when you hit the floor or did you lay down to rest? No, I lay down. Yeah, because you was getting overwhelmed. Yeah, because I was getting overwhelmed at the floor of the cubicle. Not dissimilar from where I'm currently sleeping on the floor of my dressing room at BT Sport. But you're not panicking. I'm not panicking. I'm having a lovely time

now. So you just, you was on your own, obviously, meeting I was on my own, yeah. I wasn't in the toilet cubicle with someone else. Yeah. Do you know what? I don't think I've ever talked about it because I didn't feel like it was on your own, obviously, meeting a few times. I was on my own, yeah. I wasn't in the toilet cubicle with someone else. Yeah. Do you know what? I don't think I've ever talked about it, because I didn't feel like it was a relatable story, Rob. Yeah. If you're going to panic somewhere, panic there. Yeah.

And so you're just a bit overwhelmed, and you have to have a lie down for a bit. Yeah. You know what it's like. See, you're breathing. I've had a few panic attacks back in the day when I was overworked. Now I've got that kind of thing, hopefully under control. Well, that's what I thought. Yeah, that's what you thought.

Until it came out of nowhere the other week. Exactly, bloody hell. The old wave. But, oh, sorry, that's made me feel better, Josh. I think everyone's panic attacks. Do email in, where's the funniest place you've had a panic attack? Because ultimately you do need to desensitise. Panic attacks are awful in the moment,

but obviously it's just your brain chemicals in the anxiety. But the reality is what actually is happening isn't normally that bad. It's the anxiety of it, where if you actually sit with the emotion and sit with the feeling, it passes. So if people want to share the funniest place they've had a panic attack. Oh, actually I've got another one. I have one last year on a Peloton bike.

On the bike? On the bike. You're on a peloton bike. I seemingly have panic attacks in places that make me feel like it sounds like a complete wanker. Yeah, so I had a panic attack at the Ivy. I picked up this oyster. It just got too much.

So let me get it straight straight you've put your hold all in the back of a cab you've got on your this is the worst 10 minutes of my career do you know what's happened Rob do you know what's

genuinely happened on this podcast is the more you've pushed towards being the loose neck and I've been the stiff neck I've started to open up

about being such a stiff neck wanker it's opened up a whole new row of stories that I thought weren't palatable to the public the loose neck and I've been the stiff neck. I've started to open up about being such a stiff neck wanker. It's opened up a whole new ray of stories that I thought weren't palatable to the public. But now, now I'm this character. The public one? Honesty, Josh. They won't hate you for it. They'll appreciate

you. Let's see how it affects book and tour cycles, Rob. Guys, Josh has got really honest, but now honestly, no one's going to see him. He's got too honest and it feels like he's out of touch. He's booking taxis

for his bag. I wasn't booking, I didn't book it. Anyway, so you're on your exercise bike, right? And you're, so you're doing the class

and what, you was just tired? What caused the panic attack? We don't know. What did you think about? I'll tell you what had been causing the panic attack, Rob.

Yeah. I mean, this isn't going to sound relatable either, but I was hadn't was it caviar gone off it was that morning yeah i'd uh i wasn't i was not going to reach the deadline for my book and i had a last leg meeting on zoom yeah i was trying to write the book while while in the last leg meeting and it was too much it was too much and then when did you get in the last leg meeting. And it was too much. It was too much. And then when did you get on the Peloton?

You were on the Peloton bike. I had a lunchtime break. I thought, I'll get on the Peloton bike to de-stress. But actually, the extremeness of the Peloton bike just hit me over the edge. I don't think that's a place for a panicked, overworked man. No, I should have meditated. But instead, I decided to do a

hit class and it sent me over what you need is to be even more exhausted and and have get your blood and heart rate up that's what you need just before a panic attack yeah that is quite a funny place yeah if anyone wants to share a funny place of a panic attack see more i'm welcome yeah um it's quite funny is it good is this is this a positive thing we're doing right because we're being honest yes exactly you could be honest about it and yeah if you don't want to share i'm not forcing anyone no exactly oh dear if it makes you awkward don't share it because that's the opposite of what we're trying to achieve yeah if it's gonna make you more upset or more stressed don't share it i think that's a good way of life isn't it currently in the

keep it to your fucking self all right only in Currently in the leaderboard of the worst place to have the panic attack, we have voiceover booth of your audio book, Peloton bike and the first class lounge of Kings Cross Station. Do you know what? Sometimes they do happen in nice places because your brain is so horrible. It starts going, oh, and your brain is going, oh, look at you. You're complaining. You're getting a first-class train.

You're not really appreciating it. I think it's an overriding guilt. I think I am beset with an overriding guilt about things like that. Right. Should we bring on the guest? Yes. Oh, Jesus. What a week this is jeff norka uh who is a brilliant comic a lovely man and also um we should say uh it's like trigger warning for

this trigger warning uh there is uh discussions of um miscarriage and late term miscarriage in this uh discussion just as yeah it, just so you're aware. Yes. That's what they're for, aren't they, trigger warnings? Yeah. But also, the problem with a trigger warning is it really drains the energy before bringing someone on. Yeah, it does hit the mood.

We need to get it back up. Okay. Oh, hang on. He's put the pressure on me now. Yeah. Oh, here's another trigger warning. I'm going to be really funny. Oh, no.

That's great. Yeah. I hope you don't get too. Oh, no. That's great. Yeah. I hope you don't get too stressed out by me being fucking great at laughs. Because strapping bitches. That's for men and women, that was. That wasn't aimed at just women. Have I helped? Yeah.

Here's Jeff Norcott. Jeff Norcott, welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me on. It's always this pressure when you do something you've been listening to. The status of it. I know how important it is, podcast, now. I don't want to annoy people while they're out walking their dogs.

That time matters, doesn't it? Yeah, you're right. This is it, Jeff. This is the, basically, this is 2021's equivalent of doing, uh, opportunity knocks. These are big shows. I've done,

I've done prep for this. I've got notes. I had to write those on. You've got notes? Oh, Jeff Norcott. Do you know what though? Podcast used to be just something you did with your mates and no one listened and all that kind of stuff.

But now podcast, some podcasts for me, like they are the structure of my week and on a Monday and a Tuesday when they're released I'll listen to them when I'm doing the tidying up or going for a walk so now there is a bit of pressure Jeff but I've got every faith in all three of us today but the thing is you just it's anecdotes so in it like I had to do a bit of anecdote revision because now my son's five my son what is your setup jeff first of all what's your setup at home with your your kids uh set up a home i've got one wife and i think got is the word i'm going to stick with and even if it's problematic i got her and i've kept snared

it's something i'm proud of snares probably a better word trapped you can leave whenever she wants but i know i do know stuff um and then there's and then there's my son who's five years old and he well i know like the ang you know the thing about this podcast is you gotta have your gripes but it's gonna be tricky for me because i am completely infatuated with him so that's partly why i was revising the anecdotes to remember some annoying stuff what are when he was younger yeah because they do when they get to that five they do just become your little mate it's not as full-on as when they're like babies or toddlers so i know what you're saying there but yeah but he's a little legend you don't have well i mean one of

the things but a lot of it is quite self-absorbed though rob because what i've realized is how and you do realize this with fascism in a way if you indoctrinate him young yeah it's so easy so at the moment he likes everything that I like and he doesn't even know why. What have you got him into? Star Wars, football, cricket, the Conservative Party, everything, Josh. He loves it.

That is one of your calling cards, the only Conservative voting comedian on the circuit. I didn't waste any time getting that out, Rob. I didn't even intend to. People needed to know, Geoff. Everyone needs to know your angle. It's been drilled into me. It's been drilled into me.

But yeah, no, it is funny because I do think sometimes when he watches and listens to some of this stuff, because all this stuff is out there, inevitably he's going to be a lefty, you know, at a certain point in his life. And I feel like this period in time... He's going to kick against you, isn't he, Geoff? Well, when he wants to go and work in Portugal and be an accountant in Lisbon, I think we might have some chats. Do you know what I mean? Like, not as easy as it was.

Big Corbyn poster on his wall. Yeah, I mean, it's inevitable, isn't it? Does it feel... Because I associate you talking about politics or talking about current affairs. because I associate you at talking about politics or talk about current affairs. Do you, do you enjoy talking about your personal life in comedy?

I love it. Josh, I love it. When I got the call to do this, I'm increasingly enjoying stuff like this because I spent a long time, you know, I was, I was a comic from 2001 and I spoke,

started speaking about politics in 2013. So I've been doing that a while, but all along I've been doing the club game. I've been writing for stuff. And so I love all politics in 2013. So I've been doing that a while. But all along, I've been doing the club game. I've been writing for stuff. And so I love all aspects of comedy. And, you know, any hour that I do, I'm not going to do, like, more than maybe a third of it on politics. I think people might come thinking that's what they want.

But 20 minutes in, they're going, okay, mate. No one really wants it, do they? No one does. And even, like, the great political comics that we would all think of i think that they they seem to have worked that out uh as well and i'll always do loads of stuff about you know domestic life and stuff like that yeah no you are the thing is what separates you from other political comedians um jeff is you're funny and a lot of them are which is the big problem and getting a cheer for finding a thousand people that agree with you

he's not the same as a punch line and i'll stand by that jeff that's a long tour poster quote rob but i am gonna use it um but how would you feel though if uh he was super left wing or you wouldn't mind too much because you are a conservative voter as it as it were but you're not like sort of you know i think sometimes now politics people are just so full on one end yeah you're fairly you just people can vote for different parties and have opinions on stuff yeah i mean making them evil or them to be too weak or whatever you want to call someone or for however they vote i mean the thing is fortunately for me you know being the center right which is what i am and what a lot of the country are is is is somehow radical

prospect which is brilliant from my point of view. You get to be sort of like, some people call you edgy for voting in line with the majority of people in a country, which is... Yeah, it's so ridiculous, isn't it? You're so... The alternative voice, even though the conservatives are in power. I know.

So he, you know, hopefully, like, it would never seem too extreme to him. But also, you know, I went through that stage. I voted Labour in the 90s, early noughties. Then I was briefly a Lib Dem. But, you know, Lib Dem is a bit like sort of experimenting with your sexuality. I think everyone goes for a stage. Some people stick with it. I never inhaled.

So where do you live, Geoff? Not specifically, but do you live inff or not not specifically but you live in london no no not anymore um and i was listening to one of your podcasts and rob made a very funny point about saying that people like you basically uh priced us out and i thought it was a very good socio-economic point rob thank you that's what i pride myself on oh you slip it in socioeconomic points oh yeah you got it he stumbles across it without trying. But I live out in Cambridge now. And one of the funny things is, because, you know,

I've done this documentary about class and all this stuff. People go, well, actually, and they think they've rumbled me, but I go, actually, I think you'll find he lives in rural Cambridge here. They go, actually, the only reason you know that is because I always mention it in interviews. So it's like, that's not a scoop. You're scum, Jeff. And i can say that because i am we know that you we know each other's scent we're scum but we've done all right how different do you think that makes your son's upbringing from yours like do you think he's having a kind of similar upbringing to you or is it vastly different

it's way better it's like demonstrably better he's happy all the time i mean he's not gonna have very good anecdotes i mean i'll say that much yeah his anecdote game you know he's gonna be this weird generation of young people you got now where they're probably going to live more abstemious lives less alcohol less drugs so they're going to live more abstemious lives, less alcohol, less drugs. So they're going to live forever but have no good stories, right? It's a strange existence. And I sort of, I'm already wanting to tell him about how hard it was for me. I don't know what purpose this serves. I took him, even when he was three, I drove him around the council estate

that we lived on and I was like, that was a flat that we lived in. And he laughed a bit and I thought, maybe he will be a Tory. But I'm just trying to, I'm trying trying to just i want him to know my story but i spoke we were talking about this the other day me and the missus like how how different can his life be and a lot of my friends and people that i know at the moment are considering private school for their kids but i find that difficult i just think could i could i let it be so different from him because i think a good comprehensive education for me was something that I valued. I don't know if you boys are grappling with the same thing.

What's your wife's background? Well, she's, so you understand this, she's working class, but that echelon above that used to go Spain, if you know what I mean. So she was that mythical thing that she'd been Disneyland, but American Disneyland, and I didn't even think those people existed. So her family had done well you know hard working upwardly mobile uh working class family so they'd done all right but I sort of judged the differences between us on strange

metrics like the fact that they used to have like actual diet coke in the fridge do you know what I mean like as kids not like the Safeway version no no we're talking cans as well cans not panda pops remember panda pops i like the panda pop nothing wrong with a panda pop rob i know but it's not it's not an elite fizzy drink is it it's i think it's a decent mid-ranger though it's a decent mid-range you know the football yeah no yeah it's not like them cheap energy ones that call like energy go-go 13p yeah yeah dangerous dangerous ball or something sort of rip off green cow gives me legs one of those but there was a level below that the panda pops was um i spoke about in the book has he mentioned the book and being a toy i think i'll get the book out you got a book out get the book in

well he's called where did i go Right? How the Left Lost Me. But I would say this, and I'm aware of the tone of this. Someone's just surrendered his fee there by doing the plug. But it's not like – one of the things that people have said is, I like the book, but it's not that political. And a lot of it is stuff like this, talking about class background. And we used to get this Coke from Quicksave that was called Vogue Cola, and it's the worst.

It was somewhere beneath Panda Pops, way beneath Panda Pops. It just didn't. What happened to Quicksave? Yeah, Quicksave. There was a Quicksave in Mitcham, and we used to say to me and my sister used to petition my mum and say, Mum, could we just have no Coke for four weeks and then proper Coke for one week?

And that week we'd get all our mates around and try and put out some good pr about the family look we're back on our feet the way you said what happened to quicksave rob was with a yearning i've not heard like the absolute kind of nostalgic couldn't believe that yeah just like something you forgot existed someone put on the other day you remember when it used to tell you would go into the adverts and there'd be a black and white flicker in the top left-hand corner? Yeah. Where's that gone?

Do you know what? My new tour's writing a selfie. So how's Sebastian getting on then? Is he at preschool? Has he gone to school yet? You're toying up his education? No, so this year was his first year, and what a year to start school.

Oh, wow. And he's handled it really well. This is part of the problem, Rob, is that I just got so full of admiration for the lad. Like, he's taken it. He sounded like a football manager about Phil Foden. Well, do you know what I was thinking about? Like, before I come on the show,

and I was trying to think of what it's going to be like. And I think he's going to be like Nigel Clough to my Brian. You know, I'm a bit, I like a moan, I get a bit angry, I like a drink. He's just going to clean it up a bit and he'll have had a slightly nicer life. But he's handled all that really well. But he's also, he's a very sensitive lad as well. He's really, really smart, which sounds like I'm boasting, but there's there's

sort of dangers that go with that in terms of picking up on on stuff you know what he picked up on then is he just picking up on your like your mood and things like that yeah you know like he worked out what a hangover was a bit too soon for me i would like i would like to think we could have gone a couple more years i just want to check from your experience rather than from his come down absolutely hanging this morning. Could you put extra milk in the shreddies? I would have liked a couple more years of, oh, daddy's a bit tired today. That would have been useful.

Do you know what I mean? Oh, rather than gloating that you're hungover. Yeah, not gloating, but just kind of like he's clocked it. But I think he does well on my hangover days. I'm making myself sound like a bit of an alkyd i've drunk more than one day a week when you're the one day a week when you're not hung over you're an absolutely superb parent aren't you joe do you know what i wonder just i wonder if i'm actually a better because i get such guilt like because i

so want to be a good day so on the hangover day it's like theme parks do you know what i mean i'll suddenly go we should do something today because i really it's totally self-absorbed I want to essentially assuage my own sort of self-loathing so we'll end up

I also think there's something in if you're hungover I can see why you and Romesh are mates you're really clicking on the parenting thing I feel awful

right let's go and do something to make sure that i'm being a good dad that's exactly it yeah i think if you're hung over doing something's much better there's nothing worse than doing nothing do you know what i mean just clock watching hung over like you have to go i'm gonna do an activity today no way i've got to disagree like right so you're so much easier to go, I'm going to go to the zoo, than it is to go... Are you on fucking crack? Going to the zoo with kids, hungover, is better than just laying on your sofa alone? Well, I'm not laying on my sofa.

No, no. I'm saying, Rob, laying on the sofa alone isn't one of the options. The options is doing arts and crafts in my kitchen or going to the zoo no i yes i i yeah if you're with kids it's better to go and do something with them the only reason though that's good is because they're in the car or the train strapped in or sat down and that kills a two out you basically the commute is the good bit i what i'd like to be very clear on this what i wasn't saying was i actually find hangovers easier now that i'm a parent that goes yeah but then when you do get to that that 4 p.m nap on the couch it's like it's the most sweetest well-earned nap you know and the missus is like okay you know you've done your bit whereas if

you spend a whole day being being useless and also the good thing from a parenting point of view is if you're in that situation then ice ice cream, ice cream, ice cream, chocolate. I mean, that is actually completely in context. And they think you're being a good parent. It all works. I'm going to go back. Now I understand that the kids are always involved in this process. I'm going to agree. I would even suggest getting up at like early 7, 8 a.m.

when the kids are up, when you might be still pissed. Take them to the park and have them at the park for about four hours and then take them home. You're like, oh, I've had the kids all morning. Do you want to have them? Then you just collapse. So I would 100% say,

it's way better to be the person that does the early morning with the promise of the mid-morning to lunchtime nap than it is to be the person that lies in gets up and then it's the whole way through if i'm up at 7 a.m uh and i'm just going all i've got to do is make it to 11 a.m piece of piss yeah and i think that you can sell that deal to ladies as well i think women when they're hung over the mornings is their delicate bit and you can be like i'm just going to absolutely power through this bit the only problem with getting him up at 7 a.m. is that, like,

he sleeps like an absolute log. What's his sleeping like? From the beginning, Rob, I would say, and this will sound like boasting, but we'll get to a point where you realise that this isn't totally like. 18 hours a day. Judging on his sleeping patterns, I think he's in the top 1% of people who've ever slept. Like,

wow. Because, because me and my wife would talk about that because he's only, and if you've got a kid right now and it's difficult, I'm maybe just bleep out this bit or something. Cause I know. Yeah. You know what I accept you're doing here,

Jeff. I think it's fine because you're saying he's good at sleeping. What I think would be unacceptable is if you went, we're just such great parents that we've made him into this brilliant sleeper. Accepting that you're powerless and you've got lucky, I think is totally acceptable. Yeah, he's a once in a generation, like the only time he's had bad night's sleep is when he's been ill and stuff.

But there is a tale to this, like there's a flip side to this, whereby, I mean, if you have to wake him up slightly before his time time it's like you're bringing him around from major surgery it's so difficult he just doesn't know what's going on and what hours is he doing at the moment what hours well we've been sort of i mean we did try to stay reasonably rigid with bedtimes that's the only thing that we did do he does so we take him up about quarter to eight uh i do a story and then it's 8 p.m right round till sort of half seven really and but you know we've we've like toileting stuff and stuff like that when you have to start reminding them not to just sit there and piss themselves every night um like when you just honestly it's like he's had an anesthetic there's another challenge but i but i think it's

actually he's so alert like when he wakes up and that's the other side to it is is he's straight in the game do you know what i mean like he's kind of like 11 a.m awake within the first minute of being up yeah so he's always awake or not awake he's never that in between stage no don't you ever have much in in the sort of dream like i was i mean i remember when ellis was on your podcast he was talking about like the um the uh the afternoon nap going out i still have a memorial every month like to remember the the passing of the afternoon nap is the best bit of being a parent because the thing was when it finished i sort of said to my wife i said guys such a shame in it like that all that extra sleep we were both getting. She was like, both getting?

When that was me, I was doing jobs around the house. I was like, oh, yeah, no, I was doing that too, babe. Oh, well, yeah, when the afternoon nap goes, you do feel like they should do some sort of like gun salute just to mark it. I tell you what's not true of the afternoon nap going is the myth that it makes the night times longer and better. Like once you lose the afternoon nap, they'll be sleeping much better at night.

It makes absolutely no difference. I think that's a noble lie. You know, like at the beginning of COVID when they said that PPE doesn't help, like just because they needed it for the hospitals. It's an absolutely noble lie. Was he always a good sleeper then, even when he was a baby? He was.

I mean, the first couple of weeks that we had him made it sound like it. First couple of weeks. Come on, mate. Come on. People are going to be sick of this, Geoff. I can take him being a Tory, but this is fucking too much, isn't it? I let him be UKIP without this sleep. He's doing my nutting.

But I also think that the way that I said that was bad. I said I've got a wife earlier, and then I said the first few weeks that we had him, like it was a new electric car or something. But we did have a problem. He had that thing with the jaundice, and then he had, you know, the Billy Rubins thing where... What's the Billy Rubins? Oh, Billy Rubins.

So it's a thing... Sounds like a jazz musician. I thought it was going to be like working class rhyming slang that you two were going to know and I'm like that's the old Billy Rubin's

he's had a guy Billy Rubin's off his nut the geezer sorry I don't know what it is yet we're making jokes please don't be bad sorry

please don't be bad please don't be bad yeah well you know he will never see out of his left eye but you know he's a bright man you won't see out your bloody left eye. But, you know, he's a bright man.

You won't see out your bloody left eye, you Tory. That's the problem, isn't it? I'll one-eye right-eye over it. We're still doing jokes. Still don't know what Billy Rubin's is. So it's a jaundice thing. A lot of babies have the jaundice. And then sometimes if it's not monitored correctly and stuff,

it gets to a point where they have to put one of those to have like a, they have to put a little, one of those blue light blankets around them and stuff like that. All right. And then with him, like, cause, cause they got some of the numbers wrong and stuff. They had, he had to go like in a chamber thing.

So it was quite, by the way, this is all right. It's all right in the end. I should reassure you both. But it was funny. Cause is it an escalation of Billy Roob? Is it escalation of the jaundice sense where their skin? It's an escalation of jaundice.

And the thing is, one thing, if any parents are listening, they know exactly how to sort it. But the problem is when you're the thing is, one thing, if any parents are listening, they know exactly how to sort it but the problem is when you're a new parent, you just don't listen to them

but they know exactly what to do and it's always fine. So it's all safe, it's all sorted now. It's all fine, it's worth keeping it. It never escalated

to William Rubens, did it? That's the word. Well, that's what he puts on his mortgage application. But all I'm saying is, though,

he's absolutely fine. Billy Rubens can be sorted and we can leave all that stuff in the edit, yeah? fine billy rubens can be sorted and we can leave all that stuff in the edit yeah billy billy rubens it can be sorted but i remember like me and my wife like there was just one point we were so worried about him and stuff oh yeah when you're your first baby and you don't know anything it's horrible isn't it weren't listening but he had this point where he was in this chamber and he had this blanket around him but they put these sort of like pair of shades on him and it was properly hilarious like even in the depths of our anxiety and you know when as a bloke it's almost like

you're playing with your missus where you know when an argument's coming to an end you're trying to when can i do the first like gag here or sometimes you get it wrong and it puts another two hours on it but i just got was just sort of nodded to her going look at him oh yeah i just googled it they put a little like like patch over their don't they, because of the stuff that helps the skin. But he looked like a guy in a solarium is what he looked like. He looked like with little twinks in his eyes. Yeah, well, because also all the staff and the doctors there know it'll be fine. He has to go in there for a bit.

But when you get so worried, I remember when they had to check the hearing. I think it was because, oh, what is it, when that muconium or something, when the baby comes out with something you shouldn't come out with, they have to check it to make sure it hasn't gone in its ears and stuff. So they did, like, the hearing test, and they go, right, the left one's working, and then you're going, okay, that's fine. If you haven't got the other one, they've got one here. Just shut up, brain stop thinking,

and just let the doctor do the checking, all right? Worry about it later. But you're just so manic, aren't you, baby yeah no we were and and then he but things turned around quite but it made us nervous actually there was a little legacy for that you know and we'd had difficulties with pregnancies in the past and stuff like that so we were we were on tent hooks for a number of reasons but it did it did make us worried um but but yeah it was fine and then i suppose in a way gave us a bit of faith as well. Like if something does go wrong, just listen to the doctors.

It's like when they get their first virus and they have antibiotics and it does work, like it works really fast. But, you know, when they're sort of like, you know, like really hot in the middle of the night and talking in tongues. It's terrifying, isn't it? It's so bad. I mean, you forget that, don't you? Me and the missus were speaking the other day going, yeah,

do you remember how we struggled to show any objectivity uh around that time so like i like them being babies is really cute but this age five it's like they're in touch with their cute selves but not yet their annoying selves it's a real sweet spot yeah but they do flirt with it a bit and give you absolute attitude out of nowhere because it's sort of like they're just realizing they can have you had that yet or is he still really sweet well you got two boys aren't you rob no two girls yeah two yeah yeah i mean listening to the podcast i do wonder if it's a bit different on that front because girls you know like they use so many more words even from the ages of three i don't want to be i don't want to be a big gammon here guys but i think boys and girls are sometimes different you win the right company for that sort of thing

oh dear Rob have I been cancelled you're pushing the Billy Rubin stuff was bad but this is the absolute tip of the iceberg I just think boys and girls

are sometimes different oh my god they definitely are at that age they definitely are and also like with girls as well and look

I'll happily take a stick for this one but their ability to let's not use the word manipulate but influence is like a superpower. And I think that they discover

that superpower a bit earlier. Let's leave it at that. Do you ever feel like topical comedy only ever tends to come from one angle? Well, I'm Geoff Norcott, host of What Most People Think,

and my show jokes about all sides, jokes about Tories, jokes about Labour, jokes about everyone. my show jokes about all sides. Jokes about Tories. Jokes about Labour. Jokes about everyone. If there's any Lib Dems listening, there isn't. With returning guests from across the political spectrum, including Romesh Ranganathan, Simon Evans, Catherine Ryan, Constantine Kissing, David Baddiel, Andrew Doyle, Al Murray and more.

Sometimes we'll make good points. Sometimes we'll make cheap jokes. But whatever we do, we'll be trying our best to get to the heart of what most people think. Well, I think with three as well, because it's sort of like there is, it's sort of a, I've got like a, it's almost like there's a gang of them in my house. Now there's three girls that gang up on me

and it does make a difference, I think. But, but yeah, girls are, boys are just, boys are way more rough when they play and stuff.

Is he quite like? Yeah, I'm slightly worried about that with having a boy because I'm, I with like my daughter she didn't really smash stuff up or draw on the wall or you know jump on things well you've basically brought her up in a knickknack museum as well so this your boy is gonna rip it apart smash it to pieces i i think we've got this kind of uh a bit like i was talking about the people that think their sleeping techniques are what made their kid a good sleeper.

We've got this view that, well, if you surround her by knickknacks, she just behaves because she knows the value of the stuff around her. She's on the Insta account. She knows what this stuff's going for. She's not going to piss around near a glass dome, is she? You can't play Twister near a cha dome is she you can't play twist in her chaise lounge not at mama's house now my son's gonna come along and he's gonna take a fucking shit on the uh on the golden palm tree lamp and before we know it

well you do see the madness in boys eyes that's what you see you know that thing about some men just want to watch the world burn. I think they all have that. And I don't know if this has been discussed by any of the dads with boys, but the stamping on your bollocks thing is incredible. It's almost like a kind of… Keep talking, Jeff. This hasn't been discussed, unsurprisingly. Well, maybe he just really doesn't like me as a geezer.

Maybe he's just taking me… He just doesn't want another sibling. Yours are very low though it's a bit of a trip hazard isn't it so it's almost like he will kick him at some point you've got normal balls yeah bit to the right but apart from that they're going south but the i think maybe it's like a scorched earth policy i wonder if it's that like kind of like i'm there and this can never happen again sort of thing but it just you know headbutting them i've spoke to a few dads they were just like they're so inaccurate right and their cognitive skills and their motor neurons

because it's so bad but when it comes to your balls they know exactly where they are and they know exactly the sort of contact that will cause the worst sort of pain that's where they come from they're like a homing pigeon they return home well i think that's weird though but i think that might be more true but also i think some just individuals are different so my oldest is very gentle and that does sport and run around and climb stuff a bit but not that bothered she'll happily sit and draw or do crafts where my youngest just jumps on me all the time that hangs off my neck hangs off me her new thing is running at me and ramming me in the nuts like a sheep. She does that a lot.

Just like headbutts them and laughs and runs off. So I don't know if it's boy or girl, but if some have just got more energy. Do you think, Chaps, I was speaking about this the other day, about girls, you know, and you sort of think as someone right of centre, you know, every aspect of progress worries me. And I'm like, oh, it's ridiculous. Oh, they've recast that as a female and stuff.

But I have to say, like, I think watching girls in playgrounds and stuff, they are more physically confident now and if you think there's been loads of films like Rey and Star Wars there's been loads of action heroes I just wonder if that's sort of filtered through now whereas when I was younger in playgrounds, there did seem to be more of a gender divide, but I'm just being a bit left wing here guys

I sort of think it works I would agree slightly. So some of the stuff my kids watch, they watch superhero girls on telly, which is basically just like female versions of all the super, like Batgirl, you know, Wonder Woman and Supergirl and all that kind of stuff. And they love that and they run around

being superheroes and stuff. But both of my girls have both watched all those shows and more like that. But one of them is way more, I want to be a superhero, I like dinosaurs dinosaurs type of thing where my eldest is so like if if you asked like nigel farage what are girls like it would be what my eldest daughter yeah unicorn pretty do my hair mummy like it is mental like it's almost you sort of look like you are not doing yourselves any favors guys put on a pair of trousers quick.

Come on. So, yeah, I do think that has changed slightly in the playground. But I find sometimes I still like, I still live in South East London and some of my friends or family members will say certain things. I'm like, you're painting her out to do that because you think that's what girls do. I think schools are actually way more progressive, but still in the home with certain older members of families they will say certain things that sort of go oh that you'll like this or you'll get that or when they bring them gifts and stuff i find it still a little bit that's what girls have that's what boys have but the telly's definitely helped i think it is funny though if you have like a really liberal progressive couple mate though that are going for the gender neutral thing it's the

funniest thing in the world to just buy them like Action Man, just to see them looking. It's out of order. There you go. There you go. Barbie for you, love. Action Man for him. That's what they're really like. Well, we did that because we said that we don't want any sort of

stereotypically girl toys. But, you know, as they grow older and they pick in a shop, let them. But I don't want to give like an eight-month-old a kitchen or a pram just because she's a girl and that's what would usually be ball kind of thing or a doll and stuff like that but then literally and then someone did buy him a pram it was like oh yeah no actually we don't really want to give him that it was a bit awkward and then embarrassing for us every single time she went anywhere she went and played with the pram and we were like yeah she's not helped us out yeah she's a stereotype my stereotyped five-year-old daughter she she doesn't realise, Rob, what she's doing to the cause, does she?

I know, exactly. But it used to do it boys as well. Do you remember that worst toy in the world, which was just a multi-storey car park? What was that in terms of setting you up? Just so you know, in about 40 years, you're going to be having blood pressure issues because you can't park in one of these.

You might as well get used to it some time. That was the shittest toy ever. Or it weren't even like a ramp. Yeah, you think kitchens are bad. No Hot Wheels, just parking them. The ramp was quite exciting, but it didn't really give you an idea of how tense it actually is doing the ramp bit

of a multi-storey car park. When you do that bit, you're constantly worried about catching your wheel or something. But that was the fun bit of the multi-story car. There was a petrol station at the bottom as well, wasn't there? A petrol station. Okay, just so you know, like if you want to make it really tense, it's to exit it realising you haven't got any fuel and you're in a city centre.

Yeah. I mean, the only thing they could have done to make that more realistic was actually add like screaming kids sound effects. Yeah. Have you ever, can I ask a question, guys? Have you ever, like, got, when, like, your partner and the kids are in the car and it's been quite a stressful time leaving the house, have you ever shut all the doors and just screamed fucking hell on your own

when they can't hear? No, no, why have you, Rob? Yes, and it's quite liberating because it's a liberating moment where basically it's sort of like a moment of stillness and it's just like, fuck. And then you just get back in the car and plow on. Well, I have that same feeling, Rob. But sadly for my stomach, I'd push it all down into hernia territory.

The best you can hope for in terms of how your kids see you is you just hang in there. And then when they're about 24, they'll go, you know what? He's actually quite a reasonable bloke. That's not what you're shooting for. He got his faults but he tried his best he's actually quite a sound guy that's your that's your that's your apex position oh god how are you feeling about like i mean five but it's like when he becomes a teenager and stuff like that we haven't really kind of gone into what kind of parent are you? Are you disciplinarian?

Are you trying to be down with the kids? No, I am very soppy. You know, like all comics have that thing. We all do this to varying extents. There's that aspect to yourself you push out on stage, and it is a part of you, but it's the bit that you choose to sort of like explore on stage. And almost all comics are really not like that a lot of the time.

And so I am really soppy, really needy. explore on stage and almost all comics are really not like that a lot of the time and so i i am really soppy really needy and i'm sort of thinking in one generation it's gone from me going oh yeah my old man you never never told me he loved me that much and never hugged me that much and i think that seb when he has counseling it will be like i just always wanted to hug me just always wish he'd shut up and go away like i really i really had to pretend to be asleep so he'd stop hugging me so did your dad not hug you then jeff much was it quite a handshake dad yeah well i was thinking about this you know you sort of develop these narratives and stuff and then i remembered like the first because we used to sort of like we used to give each other a kiss

goodbye and i remember i was getting like i was about 12 or 13 and i remember i'm saying to him i go yeah i think that i think we're done with that yourself and i remember the look on his face like he looked a bit gutted so i wonder if i've sort of projected that onto him and going he wasn't that tactile whereas actually it was me you know and then in in the last five years of his life we saw we sort of brought back in the odd bit of you know know, stuff. He remarried and turned his life around a bit. So it ended up, like, really positive in that respect. But I've definitely overdone it. I know Romesh talks about this as well, but I'll just be on the couch

and I'll just go, cuddle. You know, and he started to develop this enduring look on his face, like, go on then. And I think we do this a lot with parenting, don't we? We overcorrect. We always overcorrect. Instead of thinking, how about split the difference? Like maybe my old man needs something and I didn't. You know what?

It just swings between generations, doesn't it? Too much or not enough, too much or not enough. Well, when I was a teacher, I remember like, you'd always see it at parents' evening, the overcorrecting parents. Like you'd have this really like chippy dad who'd go, well, the thing is my dad made me do homework all the time, so I've said to my kid, you don't ever have to do homework. I'm like, or you sort of find a balance between those things, maybe.

What level teacher were you, Geoff? Like, what year? Not whether you're good or bad. Absolute bollocks, Josh. Absolute nuts level. I was a secondary school teacher and you know what that disciplinarian thing i'm good as the final point disciplinarian like when we've had a couple of issues with him where we're not sure he's telling us exactly what's happened i go full

robert de niro and meet the parents you know when he gets uh gay lord's hands and holds his pulse and stuff and like does a cold read on him i come in at that level like the cia interrogation level i'm quite good at that level but i'm pretty soft most of the rest of the time and i was quite a strict teacher as well to be fair what does your experience of being a teacher did that presumably obviously that was before you had kids did that make you um want kids did that make like what's your relate what's your relationship put me off for years josh did it for years i had to kind of go through like decompression for well i was a teacher and i was like you know i did supply up until about 2010 but i i yeah we stopped i stopped being a teacher full-time in about 2006 and we didn't start trying for a kid till 2013 so that's how

much it burnt me it was but it did teach me as well like the kids you know there's certain things that they want as well they do actually want rock solid people around them you know when certainly with teenagers always felt when they were trying to rebel they were trying to push him down the wall right that's what it felt like but the truth was they just wanted to know it was a good wall whereas the mistake is i i agree totally it's like referees you want consistency yes do you know what i mean the worst teachers were ones whether you didn't know whether you could have a laugh with them do you know like yeah with a teacher who was harsh i felt i preferred that to one who was a laugh 80 of the time but sometimes would flip out at you or the one that would would

kind of be liberal and easygoing with the hard lads. That was the worst kind of teacher, wasn't it? When you knew that he knew that his old man was in organised crime. And he'd be like... Oh, yeah. Have you taken your boy on holiday and stuff yet? And obviously it's very different to your holidays

and things like that. Are you a relaxed parent on holiday or are you still quite amped up? He's great fun, but I don't get too tense about taking him away. I mean, one thing I did notice about airports, right, and this is where it's just harsh on women, is I think when you're travelling in an airport, I think women tend to take on the stress of that situation more squarely

because they've probably on balance done more of the packing and just more stressed about it. But the flip side of that is seeing blokes get told off in an airport, seeing husbands get – it's the funniest thing, man. Like getting a hairdryer treatment outside of Carluccio's, just see some bloke with his missus, just absolutely. Because you can tell it's the culmination of like probably a whole week where he hasn't packed, he's got up late, he's walked the dog

while there was supposed to be, you know, all those distraction distraction techniques so I both observed that and I am also that guy if you were to have any more Jeff would you go would you want all boys or would you like a bit of balance in the house I think we're one and done to be honest I think we always we took we were we were married a long time before we even started trying we were married 10 years before we even started trying for a kid which is quite long so So we were like, let's just make one good one, right? Let's make one. And the thing is,

he's so good that I just cannot see. You know when you just have one of those gigs, right? And then you've got to be in the same... He's unfollowable. He's unfollowable. That's exactly what he is. And you've got to be in the same venue the following night.

And you just go, look, it could be better, but statistically it's not going to happen. So let's just get through it. So, yeah, and also the age we were when we had our first one as well. I think it's much more likely that we're going to get a cavapoo. When you say you have like, it was 10 years between getting married and having a kid,

did you plan not to have kids? No, no. So we were at times, we were like 50 50 we're like could do couldn't do it either was fine with us but what we sort of said was we're if we ever got to a consistent 70 30 i mean if he listens to this this is some of the most romantic chats i've ever heard did you have a chart in your kitchen yeah we updated the spreadsheet every week. We'd hit recalculate and then we'd look at the pie chart. Burn the condoms. We've reached 70-30.

It's like a fresh old, you know what I mean? Have a referendum every single week on having a kid. It was mainly project fear, to be honest, from both of us. But then, yeah, when we got to it. But as you can imagine, the pressure in the family was, you know, like they were like, oh, married now, won't be long before there's a little one. And then they started to get really disillusioned, I think, because it just totally went against anything that had gone before. And they used to be like, well, you know, we had two kids by the time we were your age. And I was like, yeah, but you never had Sky Plus.

Do you know what I mean? You didn't, everything was a bit shit then, let's be honest. How old was you when he was born? I was 40 i had him in my uh in my 40th year you said earlier that you had you don't have to talk about this you said you had some kind of problems with pregnancies and stuff did that make you feel like more kind of i don't know even more kind of love towards him because he feels like... Yeah, I mean, I don't mind talking about it,

just in terms of, you know, like, it's a bit of a... It was a hard thing to go through, but we had a couple of miscarriages. Then we had a loss of a very late-stage pregnancy. So what happened with that was, which was... It's great to hear that, mate. Yeah, well, mate, look, I do think it's important that blokes talk about this because it's hard enough for women, right?

It's hard enough for women, but blokes tend to just internalize and kind of not really mention it so it was a very difficult thing to go through but it was like it was strange like kind of ironic that we kind of realized not ironic but just in that moment we're like we absolutely want to do this you know it's the only in such a difficult moment it was like the only kind of like bit of spiritual kind of thing and i think that maybe in a way you know because we're also aware that we didn't really change much in terms of still wanting to have one kid that we wanted to save her every single minute but i wonder if that's what's come out in him as well he's like we want every day magical day what you know and and it's

made it it's had a knock-on impact in his life but just to make his life sort of a curiously sort of Disney type experience. But I mean, again, if there's people listening to this and stuff, they've been through a similar thing. It's complicated because there is like almost like a sliding doors of a timeline that you have a mind on sometimes, you know, and he's sort of aware of what happened. And, you know, I do sometimes wonder if he's trying to be. So would you speak to him about that then?

Because it was such a difficult thing. He was a way, you know, there's ways that you phrase it with kids. I don't care whether you're religious or not. Once you've had a kid and you have to describe that sort of stuff, it's like, right, so you've ever heard of angels? Yeah, of course. Everyone suddenly becomes a bit Christian because it just makes it easier. So obviously I imagine he was aware that his mum was pregnant

and then there wasn't the baby. Yeah, yeah. So it's hard for him, isn't it? It was a tricky call, but it was such a hard thing to be a parent after that. It took the pressure off a bit for him to just sort of know that something like that has happened in a way. And, you know, it was a difficult call. But he is – I i mean i remember when

we said when we were pregnant again and i was like my wife said what we're gonna do if he's a difficult kid you know i mean we've been through so much i was like i said i think he's gonna be absolutely fine i said i think he's gonna sleep 12 hours straight through be a lovely kid i saw almost made like a comical ironic wish list for a kid and that is what we got i mean that sounds a bit corny but that is pretty much what happened i think it's interesting you say about like not wanting to talk about it because i haven't spoken on here before because we were pregnant but we had a miscarriage between our two children and it is it's yeah and it's it's really weird to kind of there is a weird stigma about it really not stigma but it's not spoken about in the same

way as loads of other things it's so you don't realize that it's something like one in four pregnancies ends in a miscarriage of some sort and it's it's such a regular thing but it's so um kind of behind closed doors even now i think yeah i mean you look when you look at the statistical likelihood of it that especially uh you know sort of early stage pregnancies as well kind of behind closed doors even now i think yeah i mean you look when you look at the statistical likelihood of it that especially uh you know sort of early stage pregnancies as well i think you know kind of stillbirth once you get to a certain point it's about one in every 200 but like early stage pregnancies but as i as i said it you know i said it in in um you know i did a carrie ad lloyd's brilliant grief cast um uh podcast it took me this long to be able to talk about it,

to be honest. But I said that what happens is I think is the moment you get pregnant, there's a bit of your brain that's already building a little room. Do you know what I mean? Like you don't know, but it's sort of constructed it. So whether that ends at two weeks, three weeks,

seven weeks, 14 weeks or 36 weeks, that room is still there. That's the thing. And so that's the thing that, that's the thing that you, you, you have to deal with. And I'm, just i mean like it's taken this happened in 2014 it's only been this year that i've been able to talk about it publicly so whatever stage people are

in in that thing you know it's it's a complicated one but um but yeah you know i'm happy to speak to i mean i realize now it's quite hard to be funny about this, but I'm – No, no. I'll give it a go in a minute, lads. Just let you two have a chat. If we can get it out of that Billy thing, we'll try it with this. I'm just saying Billy Rubins if it goes a bit quiet.

Oh, you wait for the callback at the end of this one, lads. It's unbelievable. Do you, like – do you know other people that have been through similar things like yeah we do yeah i i find like i think sounds kind of weird but like friends i know that have had miscarriages and you kind of feel like you're in like it's kind of like you're in the weirdest club ever do you know what i mean it feels like i don't know that feels like something where you go oh you know what this is like don't you it kind of almost like it bonds you in a strange way to people that have had similar experiences i think yeah and again i i think that and i'm really

cautious about making out like because i think women go through the physical side so there are some gender stuff and sex stuff that is just innate like you can't change the fact that people often say this cliche to you as a bloke going, well, you know, it's just as bad for the man. You go, I don't know if it is because you don't have that physical thing,

but what you do have is that little room in your head you're building. And that is the thing, you know, and I was so like in, in the, in the sort of couple of years afterwards, I was dependent on blokes that have been brave enough to write articles um online and stuff i've read loads of that stuff but i tried to write the articles and they were just so bad and then i realized just talk about it that's what i do

you know i mean i'm a talker and i mentioned it briefly in the book but it was only to contextualize something else but i found that you know i can kind of talk about it and there are there are some good places that are cottoning on to this fact and um and it is yeah between blokes and the thing is blokes will naturally tend to ask you about your misses as well and you think that's fine but that means everyone in your life is asking about the misses which is natural yeah it's the right thing particularly in the immediate aftermath but then problem is is like you get a year down the line from it and people have got very different lives by that point, whereas you still think, Jesus, I'm still in the slipstream of this.

But this is one thing I think about blokes in terms of equality. There's two things I think need to happen. We need to remember stuff about what each other is going through and check in on it. That's just a simple thing. Women do that all the time and they're so much better for it. And then I think from women's side, they just need to take the piss out of each other more i think those are two bits of equality that could happen take a bit from one take a bit from the other

yeah i think as well i do think as well that you know without how you know people say oh it's just as bad for the man which it never is because you're both dealing with it mentally and obviously the ladies got to deal with it physically but i think what the problem is men don't deal with it mentally so like they're both going through bad things but blokes just bottle it up and don't really talk about it and it's so inspiring that you're talking about it jeff because it's other people get so much from this the way you were you know looking for articles online if someone can hear that other people have gone through it and stuff like that it does it does really help so well done for talking about it i think a lot of people appreciate it far more than your right wing bullshit yeah no i mean look if there are people that if there are people that are cynical

about me they'll be going here you go another usp god this this gives up he can he can spy a niche i'll give him that if there's um places that people could go, if you let us know, Jeff, we'll put it in, like, the description on the podcast, because obviously people are affected. Because you know what? There's so few people, and you might think I'm mad for saying this, but there's so few people that could actually get it together to chat. You know, from my podcast, there's an email address that people can write to,

which is what most people think, uk.gmail.com and if if i know it's about that i'll read and respond to everyone because sadly you know what it just not a lot of people are willing to do that but if there's someone if it's if it's basis if it's based on this conversation i always think it might be good for to further that a little bit and then and then point me in the right direction and you can tell them your tour dates and stuff as well can't you yeah well exactly i mean like the little bit of the if they want to buy the book they buy the book right yeah yeah exactly there'll be a few links in there obviously discounts you know depending on how often you came here for reference points that you stayed for billy rubin's but yeah i don't mind people email email yeah what's the email address it's

what most people think uk at gmail um.com and you know i've had a couple of of chats with blokes and stuff like that oh that's great but if there's one thing that our soppy generation of dads can do is maybe we can instead of 15 years we can bring it down to six five or six yeah bottle it up for six and then talk about it rather than you know an outburst on a stag do for no reason and no one knows why. The amount of times I've seen a bloke, not even on a stag do, but like out in a pub, burst out the pub in tears because a song's come on and triggered them or they've read something and then all their mates go, fuck those, what's wrong with him?

I can probably tell you why. Go back 15 years. Do you find you're more emotional after having a kid, Geoff? Has that opened a kind of part of you? I would say so, yeah. I would because like you you go back across stuff even writing the book as well to be honest you just go back across stuff emotions come out you have a little cry and stuff and it just bit by bit it breaks you down I don't know about you boys but you're like what have I become I love a cry now oh I absolutely love to wallow I love to wallow and I. I absolutely love one. Yeah, I love to wallow. I love to wallow in a cry.

When I was writing one of the chapters of our book, which is sort of a sad bit, I was actually crying the whole time I was writing it. And at the end, I burst out laughing going, this feels like a fucking Bridget Jones deleted scene. What the fuck have you been... What is going on here, mate? This is mental.

It's like I've got possessed. That was about your appearance on Nevermind the Buzzcocks, that chapter, wasn't it? Oh, dear. A good cry. I mean, mate, it's cathartic. And it actually feels good afterwards. And I've sort of like, there'll be times, you know,

like sort of a tactical chunder. You know, your mates used to do. They'd really like to do it. I would argue that before a big day or a big, you think, oh, could I have a little, just a little blub here? Because if you don't plan it, it will come out at the worst point. I was trying to get the kids ready the other day and I was upstairs. And then like a really sad advert come on for some like disease thing about kids and all this.

And I literally sat there and I just exploded into tears. You know, sort of an out of body experience. You're watching yourself like someone's just put a spell on you to be distraught and then you're like trying to get yourself together to take them like wagamamas and we're not match fit lads are we we're not match fit with crying because what happens is boys cry a lot probably more than girls up to a certain age and then there's a party that goes right suck it up and then it re-emerges and meanwhile women have had a more sensible relationship with crying most most women have and so they can actually make it look all right do you know i mean it looks it doesn't

look too ugly whereas we're having like some hulk moment aren't we just like coming out of us like split in the atom like where if you cry a little bit all the time it's okay but if you have that one mega meltdown ripping off your shirt radioactivity emanating from it. I mean, it feels like we normally end with the same question. It feels like a very kind of trite question now after the last kind of 15 minutes. But we'll still, we like to keep the format, don't we, Rob? We like to keep the format. Yeah, yeah, no, look, I'm a fan of the show.

Format is everything. Yeah, let's keep through. Not on this show jeff i said it to be nice yeah it's not it's not a format heavy production um yeah so the only bit of format is what is the one thing that your partner does parenting wise that annoys you and frustrates you but you can't say anything because it'll kick off indoors but this is your opportunity to vent and if she listened she might go do you know what I think Geoffrey's got a point the thing is he's like

in this moment I was thinking like this question yeah I feel scared I do feel scared to say it a bit scared will she have

listened this far Geoff will she have bothered no I mean she's tapped you know what it's like in this game

first couple of years oh you've done so and so oh you're on a thing with Stacey Solomon then just don't care about any of it ever again I genuinely mate Rose hasn't watched The Last Leg She's tapped out. You know what it's like in this game. First couple of years, oh, you've said with so-and-so, oh, you're on a thing with Stacey Solomon, then just don't care about any of it ever again. I genuinely, mate,

Rose hasn't watched the last leg since David Cameron was in power. Genuinely. Since it was actually about the Paralympics. Yeah. She doesn't know her topical show. You know what? I think she'd be all right.

I think it is coaching in social situations. It's like, you're right, we're going here. She she started laying out a playbook for how i've got to be and then the problem is is from my point of view then is if i observed that i feel like such a fake and i sort of think well i understand when she does it because sometimes i'm on my phone or completely detached and stuff but then if i'm then doing it according to the playbook i'm hating myself for being a sellout but also coming across as really fake. Like, I think, I think, I do think, and I realise now I've done a lot of gender stereotypes,

but, you know, if you like all that, come to the tour. There's plenty more where that comes from. But I do, I do sort of, I love them in a way because I'm fascinated by women's stuff. And I think that on balance, I think women have a far more, they have far more of an idea of how they want stuff to be, right? So if it's Christmas morning,

they're like, you know what, today would be really nice if he was in really good form and being really charming with my folks. And they will sometimes think about this stuff, whereas blokes don't ever think about stuff like that. I'd be great if she just bought me a sandwich for no reason.

You know, you don't. Actually, that's the one thing I have thought. But there's generally not that much of a playbook. So that is one thing uh brilliant jeff it's brilliant to speak to you thanks so much and thank you for being so kind of open and honest no no thanks for having us on yeah and so first of all where what's your name your book and where can we get it probably the internet and it will get it from the internet yeah i mean if you go like type in the words jeff norcott book that is gonna be i've only got one you know i mean it's not that good a name where you're gonna have other people even

called that let alone authors so that'll get you there uh and then the tour is september onwards and luckily being like a small to medium-sized touring act it's almost certainly gonna go ahead so which is which is actually called i blame the parents Parents so yeah that'll be going from 1st of September and well done for I think opening up and talking because I think people

really appreciate it and for anyone else that has gone through certain things with miscarriage and stuff what's that email address one more time for people? Yeah if you want to

just chat to me about it and carry on the discussion it's whatmostpeoplethinkuk at gmail.com or if you want to sort of like troll me just for being a Tory and an arsehole

that's a really good way of getting to me directly and it's what most people think is your podcast as well is that right oh i can't believe that yeah i should be i mean that's the only reason i've done it to be honest rob yeah the podcast is called what most people people think and i mean you're not you're not a brand name guy i this is the most confusing email address and name of a show it sounds like the start of a sentence and you a gmail jumps out of nowhere at you i just with titles for stuff i just keep throwing shit at war i just keep adding words Use your email address and name of a show. It sounds like the start of a sentence and a Gmail jumps out of nowhere at you. I just love titles for stuff. I just keep throwing shit at a wall.

I just keep adding words. Where did I go right? How the left lost me? What most people think. Just Google Jeff Norcott. It's all on a website, isn't it? Yeah, you can find it. Not yet, but it will go right.

It will be. You don't want to rush into a website. They might not take off. Cheers, Jeff. That was off. Cheers, Jeff. That was brilliant. Cheers, chubs. Jeff Norcott. Love Jeff.

Good guy. Yeah. Good comic. Always has his hair perfectly in place. He does. That's right. His hair is always perfectly in place. I've never seen it long.

Even in lockdown, I think he did it himself. Always very clean cut. Loads of good stuff there. I think it was great that you spoke about miscarriages and things like that. It's got to be spoken about more, definitely. It definitely has. The reason I haven't spoken about it is because when Rose was pregnant, which came after the miscarriage, you feel like, I know this sounds mad, but you don't want to tempt fate.

I was just like, I just want to get to the end of this without going. It didn't feel like i wanted to say but now we've got a happy ending because we're pregnant again because you still feel like you're part of it when you're pregnant after miscarriage i'm sure we'll go into it on another day i don't think it's one for the outro but every day feels perilous and like it could go wrong in the way you just don't feel before yeah it's horrible as well and especially for some people like that may happen and then it never happens so then they feel like they can never talk about it where if you do have a your first or second or third baby you can afterwards go oh I had a miscarriage because

you've sort of got the baby there you sort of feel like it's okay to talk about but there's other people that's you know they want to mention the same we're even trying like even before that stage of having IVF and not working and stuff I think the more people talk about it the easier everything is and that's that's not just about babies and not working and stuff. I think the more people talk about it, the easier everything is. And that's, that's not just about babies and trying for kids, anything with like grief or sadness and stuff like that. But that's brilliant.

It's so kind of Jeff to put his email address out. So if you are, want any sort of advice or anything like that. And I think in Jeff's case, it was very, very late miscarriage. It wasn't an early doors one, I think.

So that's very kind of Jeff. So yeah, it's, it's what most people think at gmail.com.'s very kind of jeff so yeah it's it's what most people think at gmail.com if you want to get in contact i think it's what it's what most people think uk actually oh i mean i love let's be honest let's be honest that's a terrible it's not and a terrible name it's not i love jeff how is it how's he not managed to get it's what most people think at gmail.com someone's already got that quite shit email address. Just call it Jeff Norcott podcast.

Yeah. Anyway, we're saying how great he's done. Now I'm giving him shit for his branding. I really like everything about Jeff except his ability to do an email address. Yeah, it's what most people... And also how fast he said it. That was such a London delivery, wasn't it? It's what most people think you can at gmail.com. What was that? The first time he said it? It's what most people think, UK at gmail.com. What was that?

The first time he said it, I'm not going to lie, I thought his email was UK at gmail.com. I was like, how the fuck did you get that? Early adopter. I thought you'd gone, what's your email address? It's what most people think, UK at gmail.com. Yeah, I've always thought that. I was thinking the other day.

I bet Geoff Norcott's email is UK at gmail.com yeah I've always thought that I was thinking the other day I bet Geoff Norcott's email is uk at gmail.com absolute legend oh dear anyway give him an email if you want to chat

and he can point you in the right direction for any advice and stuff but thanks for listening we'll be back with another episode next week cheers guys

bye bye do you ever feel like topical comedy only ever tends to come from one angle well I'm Geoff Norcott host of

what most people think and my show jokes about all angles jokes about Tories jokes about Labour jokes about everyone if there's any Lib Dems

listening there isn't with returning guests from across the political spectrum including Romesh Ranganathan Simon Evans Catherine Ryan, Constantine Kissing, David Baddiel, Andrew Doyle, Al Murray, and many more.

Sometimes we'll make good points. And the campaigns seem to be aimed at them. It's the people that are on the fence that you've got to persuade. Sometimes we'll make cheap jokes. And sometimes we'll make cheap points and good jokes. Do you know when people say don't judge a book by its cover? I would say that every single book I've bought in an airport, I judge the book by its cover.

Yeah, I don't know what else you're supposed to judge it by. You're not allowed to read the thing in the full, are you? But whatever we discuss, we'll be trying to get to the heart of what most people think. I'm Scott Bennett.

And I'm Gemma Bennett. And together we are Brew with the Bennetts. Yeah. Say it together. Brew with the Bennetts. Every Sunday, a bit of chat. A bit of humour.

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Join us there. I've just noticed you always go, before you say something. Just listen, do it again. No wonder I have anxiety dreams. Oh my God.