Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S03 EP26: Charlotte Church

Episode Date: October 8, 2021

S03 EP26: Charlotte ChurchJoining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant singer-songwriter, actress, television presenter and political activist, Charlotte Church. Please rate and review. Thanks - Rob and Josh xxxIf you want to get in touch with the show here's how:EMAIL: [e-mail]: @parenting_hellINSTAGRAM: @parentinghellA 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willicombe. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with your tips, advice and, of course, tales of parenting woe.

Because, let's be honest, there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing. Hello, you are listening to Parenting Hell with... Iris, can you say Rob Beckett? Rob Beckett. And can you say Josh Whittacombe? Josh Whittacombe. Good girl. There we go.

Good work, Iris. Hello, Rob and Josh. I hope you're both well. I've listened to the podcast from the very beginning. It's got me through some very frustrating times parenting my two daughters, now two and four years old. This is my youngest daughter, Iris. Her big sister's recently started school

and so she's feeling a little bit lost without her partner in crime constantly by her side. We're both loving a little more quality time together. Keep up the good work. Lucy from Crick near Rugby. I found myself saying something this week, Rob. Yeah. And I thought, I've turned into my dad.

I said... Send them back. I said, get the gunboats. No, I said... I said, it was cold. I said, I'm sorry, but I'm promising to myself that we don't turn the central heating on until at least October. Yeah, so my friend's having the same discussion.

He said he's been negotiating with his wife when they can turn the heating on, but you can't pick a date. You have to pick a temperature. Surely that's the rule. I know. I know I'm in the wrong, Rob. I know I'm in the wrong. I know I'm not listening to the science. It's the thing of experts. Yeah, but I just thought i can't i'm sorry central heating in september is an absolute no-no on my watch yeah i mean yeah because it does like in the mornings i've found have been so horrendous and rainy and bleak and then by the afternoon i'm like it's like tops off in the garden isn't it yes no no not getting your top off in the garden well you know

rob i haven't had enough quite enough protein shakes to get to that point okay yeah a few more shakes and you'll be all right you'll get there yeah exactly that's my thing i'm trying to i'm trying to get down i'm trying to get thinner i don't need bulk i've got bulk i might have got massive like bloat tits that are either wobbly like tad t tad tits, or rock hard, but the same size. Right, yeah. So, like, that's weird, isn't it? What do you want? Just big rock hard tits?

Well, I didn't think you'd be offering me that so early in the podcast, Rob. I look like my... If I go to the gym a lot, my breasts, my pecs... My breasts. My breasts. You look like the first person to get a boob job in the world. Just rock hard.

They didn't work the science out. They were bigger. They could do that. You look like Lola Ferrari. Who the fuck's Lola Ferrari? She used to be on Eurotrash. She was a kind of... She was one of the first big boob job models.

Oh, really? What the fuck? Lola Ferrari. Oh, like Orla from Big Brother. Yeah, oh, yeah. A bit Ferrari. Oh, like Orla from Big Brother. Yeah, a bit like Lola Ferrari or Orla from Big Brother. She had fake boobs, didn't she? I don't remember Orla from Big Brother. Which Big Brother was that?

Orla from... I can't remember. Do you know Carol from Big Brother was heckling Keir Starmer? Absolutely astonishing. I couldn't believe that. Orla from Big Brother. She had fake boobs. That was quite early on.

That was too far after my love of Big Brother. Oh, really? I fucking loved Big Brother, Rob. It was my favourite show on telly, I think. The first series of Big Brother is still possibly my favourite series of anything ever. When Bubble hurt his knee. Oh, that was a glorious moment. Absolutely wonderful.

When Bubble hurt his knee, when Nasty Nick was confronted. Kate Lawler and Johnny the Fireman. Oh, the bit where Alex Sibley, the hot model, and the door came back and he sang, was genuinely one of the greatest bits of moments of television I've ever seen. And then he kept on people pissing in the shower in his funeral. Oh, yeah, Johnny the Fireman was pissing in the shower. Victor Abu, he was great, wasn't he, when he was arguing?

Oh, what, Fight Night? Oh, Fight Night, and then the big blonde-haired Scottish man came in. Oh, what, fight night? Oh, fight night. Then the big blonde-haired Scottish woman came in. Yeah, Jason. Victor and Jason. The jungle cats. The jungle cats, yeah. And then that Craig

really fancied Anthony and then Anthony shagged him a cosy in the hot tub and she said she was pregnant. Oh my God. Great days. Great days.

It was so good. Who was that posh guy that ordered loads of bananas for a laugh and everyone hated him? That was great. I don't remember that one. Oh, Tim.

The guy shaving his chest and got caught shaving his chest. Oh, yeah. That was great. Oh, my word. Glory days. Lovely times. Lovely times. And now...

And we got all the way through that without mentioning Kinga, which I think is a victory for everyone involved. Oh, Kinga. Oh, and when Michelle and someone else had sex under the table. Do you remember that? Yes. Oh, glory days. I can't remember who that was.

Blowjob under a duvet with a fixed camera. That was telly. And I'll tell you the other one. The Welsh girl who liked blinking. Helen. Lush. Lush. Love blinking.

Oh, glory days. Loved it. Anyway, it's just Charlotte Church. Welcome, Charlotte Church, to the show. We're very excited to have you on, Charlotte. Hello. Oh, there we go. It's definitely her.

Even that was good. I don't think we've had a national treasure on before. I'd say you're a national treasure, Charlotte. Would you take that? Oh, do't think we've had National Treasure on before. I'd say you're a National Treasure, Charlotte. Would you take that? Oh, do you think I've reached National Treasure status? Yeah, I think so. We've had Tom Allen. I think that's the closest we've got. That's very kind of you. I mean, who knows? There's certainly no ceremonial process for it. I'd say a very young national treasure because you've been famous for so long.

I forget how young you are still. Yeah, I mean, I don't feel very young currently. Don't say that. I'm 35 now and yeah, I mean, the grey hairs are starting and it's a bit of a shocker, isn't it? How old are your kids as well? You've got two kids, is that right? I've got three.

I've got a new baby. Three? Yeah, I've got a new baby who's just, she's just gone one. Oh, yeah, because the other two are slightly older, aren't they? Sorry, I thought you only had two. Yeah, and then I've got some big ones who are 14 and 12. So, oh my God, that's a big gap. So you've got 14, 12 and a one-year-old.

Yeah, absolutely. What's it like? Has it felt familiar? Or has it felt like a different experience having a baby third time round? I think that it's felt very, very familiar. And I mean, I just love it. I love mothering. I love all the different ages. I love having a newborn.

I did love birth, but then my third birth, that absolutely came and like bitch slapped me in the face. Really? Was you overconfident? I was so unbelievably overconfident because the first two times I was 21 and 22 and, you know, my body knew just what to do. And I had two home births and they were quite simple. And I mean, don't get me wrong. It was still birth. It's still like incredibly intense and painful and the rest of it but again i mean a long old flight's a long old flight whether you're in economy or business i mean so

right but but it was like um the third time around i mean i've become quite quite a nature lover stroke tree hugger like quite deep hippie in in the interim interim of having my first two and little baby Frida. And so I'd set this birth palace outside, basically amongst the trees. Oh, wow. No way. Really? Oh, yeah. I had flowers. I dried flowers. Like, I mean, it was so involved. It looked like a Baz Luhrmann set. Candles everywhere.

So I labored in there overnight, which was beautiful. But then I had a screaming on the bathroom floor. Oh, really? You decamped inside? Decamped inside. Yeah. But yeah. So so Mother Nature came and went, sit down, silly lady. As if you've been just making beautiful spaces for this moment for the past month. You'll have a mewling on the bathroom floor. Oh, God.

What was the point when you went, we need to go inside? It started drizzling at about 7am, and we lived next to a golf course, and I could really hear the golfers. And as my noise, because I'm a noisy woman anyway, especially, you know, in any sort of pain or anything. So as my noise started to up, I thought, this is not going to work. Imagine shanking it into the rough and trying to find your ball and discover Charlotte Church giving birth.

Birthing in the trees. I mean, I'd love that. That's what those golfers need, actually. Yeah, it livens up a round, doesn't it? There needs to be a bit of divine feminine on the golf course, I'd love that. That's what those golfers need, actually. Yeah, it livens up a round, doesn't it? There needs to be a bit of divine feminine on the golf course, I feel. And has it been, you had the sleepless nights and things like that, or you just look more confident now, you know, because you've already had to?

I mean, oh, no. I mean, we've had all the sleepless nights and all of it, but, I mean, I just, we've had all the sleepless nights and all of it but um I mean I just I'm completely elated by her by this new addition to the family by how she's changed the whole for our whole family dynamic you know it was getting to a point I think before when the bigger ones start you know they're starting the process of adolescence and so they start to grow away from you a bit but actually she's really connected us all made everybody a bit softer a bit gentler yeah that's nice yeah i mean it's just been it's been totally lush but i i love i love the whole thing parenting is unbelievably difficult yeah and you

do so much soul searching but in my mind it's my absolute it's the pinnacle of my existence. And it's, I love it. Do you think, Rob, in 10 years, then, that's what you're going to need to do to re-engage your daughters? Well, have a child with Charlotte Church. Have a child in the woods. It's going to be a hard sell at home. She's a national treasure, Lou. No, I don't know.

I mean, I suppose it must have been crazy for you, though, Sherlock, because you had them quite young, didn't you? And obviously you became mega famous quite young. Was it all a bit of a whirlwind at that point then? And now you're a little bit older, it's a bit calmer having the babies. Ha, ha, ha, ha, no. Yes, in a way, your 20s is way more chaotic. And especially, you know, I know I was yeah 21 and 22 having

Ruby and Dexter so much younger um and therefore yeah things are much more of a whirlwind much more chaotic but in a way things are simpler because you haven't quite amassed that knowledge the complexity of it ignorance is bliss almost isn't it totally like your relationships aren't as well formed as they are when you're in your 30s and you know you you start to understand so much more and generally you grow you know in in responsibilities your level of responsibilities is growing as well throughout your 20s and 30s so in a way yes I'm more sated and calmer and I know myself better and it's less chaotic, but in another way, it's so much more complex. And I suppose also because

back then was the start of my parenting journey and all of the learning that I've done subsequently about children and human beings and cognitive development and because i've done all of that research to do with the school yeah of course with the learning community that i set up so but but with all of that knowledge now that does make things a lot more complex you homeschooled your kids is that right for a period and now you've set up a school that sort of is in like an annex onto your house so you've opened this school. Is it for like 20 kids? Is that right? I mean, I've looked it up a little bit,

but it was basically a Daily Mail article. So it's quite hard to work out what's real. So what's a school you've set up? So basically it's a learning community called the Awen Project. So for the first year, yes, you're right. We were in the annex of my house and we were like registered as a school

and then when covid hit we lost funding we lost the ability to be able to uh we lost our planning permission basically to be to be in the annex and so then we retreated into the woods and now we've got a a partnership with the woodland trust but we could only give basically less than half of the education so now we're just just, we're not a school, we're classed as a learning community. But the important part of what we do is that we're free to attend. It's democratic education,

which means that the young people and, I mean, everybody who works in the environment, so the facilitators as well, everybody has an equal say in everything that happens in the school. So there's no coercion. It's all based around consent and people's, you know, passions and what they're interested in and what they want to work on. Do you find the kids taking a lot of responsibility in that position? And does it kind of give them a kind of investment in the

situation? Absolutely. I think that this is the way in which humans have been learning for millennia what age groups is it for so at the moment we've got 15 students between the ages of 9 and 14 yeah and eventually we want to be in all the way through school or all the way through learning so 3 till 17 basically yes but i don't just want to set up one. What we're hoping to do is to make each of these little learning communities self-sufficient by setting up businesses, after school clubs, summer clubs, all sorts of different things that we can do to earn money and be self-sustaining. by the kids and their families and you know whatever facilitators or teachers are in that environment then they can pop up in any circumstance so you could have one in inner city birmingham you could have one in rural pembrokeshire you can even have one in the slums of mumbai because each one sort of grows and evolves and adapts to that set of people. Yes. And their needs. So I'm really passionate about education

and I'm really passionate about 21st century education, which currently I don't think we're providing, but I'm also really passionate about that being free. So would this be a replacement of traditional schooling or would it run alongside it? Like at the moment, your kids, do they just come to your school and then at 14 go to like a government school to do GCSEs

and stuff like that? How is it working? Well, at the moment, it's our age range is 9 to 14 because that's the age of the kids. But they'll stay with us through that, you know, through to the end of their education. Oh, okay. So they'll stay through to 16, 17, 18?

Yeah, absolutely. And then do you do qualifications and stuff like that? Or is it all totally sort of student led? Because we only do half of the education or less than half of the education. The other side of it is homeschooling. Oh, okay. We're supporting parents to homeschool. But also, I mean, there's so many resources online nowadays. So this parent community is amazing and they start to develop their own systems and a resource base and all of this sort of stuff. So in terms of exams and GCSEs,

the kids can do what they want to do and we'll support them in whatever they choose to do. So one of them might want to do a BTEC. One of them might want to do 11 GCSEs. You might say, I don't want to do any GCSEs at all. And say I don't want to do any GCSEs at all and I know that I want to go straight into this you know area of working or so I mean it's it's fascinating and it's completely different for each individual as it should be and your two uh older children go there presumably yeah absolutely imagine that now they're at the private one down there. Don't even fuck about with that. I'm on some A-levels, mate. Can't get UCAS points in the woods.

It'd be amazing if you said that. No, no, absolutely not. I'm a gliding wood socialist. Yeah. When you were a teenager, Charlotte, and at school, were you at school, at secondary school? Were you flying around the globe, singing and stuff? How did that work for you when you were growing up?

I did both. So I had two tutors when I was on the road. What age? It was 11. Is that right, Charlotte? You broke through your big break? Yeah, my big break came when I was about 11 and then I had my first album out at 12.

Yeah, thanks, Josh. I've done my research, actually. Well done, Robert. Yeah, you sang it on This morning over the telephone in 97. Yes, I did. Then you went on the Big Big Talent show. That's just saying, Josh, you know, you need this information at hand when you're dealing with a national treasure.

And just to double check, and you're Welsh, right? That's correct. Just a little bit. I've done my research as well. Thank you very much, Rob. So what was that like as a teenager who's kind of forming their kind of self in the public eye that must have been such a strange kind of few years right it was fraught in many ways like most people's adolescences i missed my friends loads like

often i'd be like oh my god i God, I hate singing for presidents. I just want to go. Just want to hooch in the park. I want to go to the N18 disco in creation and snog everyone. Which president did you sing for? I sang for... Mugabe, bit of a dark time. Regret that. I sang for President Bush a number of times and President Clinton. I did Bush's inauguration.

Did you? Yeah. Blimey. How did that work out? It worked great, actually. I wasn't politically active at the time. Yeah. And I didn't really understand.

Otherwise, I never would have tagged any right-wingers. What was that like as a day, though, as an 11-year-old? Did you say how old you were? No, I must have been about 14 I was it was just before my 15th birthday it was odd I mean I was in one but but one hell of an experience that's what I was going to move on to is that even though it was fraught and there were ways in which I wanted to be home and I wanted to be normal and you know because I did go to school as well for the for the other half when I was back home are you going into school on the

Monday going what did you get up at the two of the weekend I was singing on the Capitol Hill for President Bush yeah your Monday morning diary is like the first autobiography it's unbelievable that teacher got a free copy totally but I mean that the other thing that I'm so privileged to have had is all of those insanely amazing experiences so you know whether it was singing with different orchestras around the world whether it was you know going to amazing ancient complex places like Israel and really starting to understand the you know historical and political conflicts there whether it's you know looking at um out of the the window of the coach which is taking me and kelsey grammar and a whole load of

other celebs to this um inauguration for president bush and seeing massive protests outside yeah i mean it was just such an education i know this is a weird thing to drill down on you just sat on a bus with kelsey grandma that's how you get to the the inauguration you're just all bussed in the kind of celebs oh yeah just bussed in i mean because of the secret service and stuff there's so much security so yeah the vetting process was was pretty hardcore and must be people there you've gone out you you gone in right to this? It's always fun until you see someone else on the bus. You're like, what? I thought this was special. What are they doing here?

Totally. What are you doing here? I used to love Frasier though, so I was over the moon to meet Kelsey Bram there. Kelsey's alright, isn't he? He was a bit of a douche. He was a bit of a dick, to be honest. Oh, really? Yeah, well, A, he's a right winger. I mean, it's quite strong from someone on the same bus to the Bush inauguration.

Plus some Fro Stones. I know. What did I expect? People in sled coaches should not Fro Stones, I'm going to say. But with your own kids, what's it like now? Because they're at the same age as you were when all that was happening. Yeah.

Do you have a different perspective on it now about oh my god how young you were or and things like that does it make you look back and reflect differently not particularly I mean I sometimes I sometimes think about it with my daughter but I you know I think that actually it got really invasive and really difficult at about 15 16 when the press started going for me before before then you know it was in the majority just really positive hard difficult really a lot of work but it was it sort of it got a bit poisonous when I was 15 16 and the press turned to be honest the cliche with sort of child stars and people become super you was like one of the most famous people in the world in that period

like you know normally it doesn't end up quite a negative storyline normally when you look at the sort of child starts um going back a few years so like you you seem so with it and in control and sort of very mature like have you had to work on that or did you just like how do you think you've come out of it so composed and in charge of your own life rather than some people go spiral slightly I think that in a way I had I had this music like I had this deeply even even though I'm not religious like this but I was just singing this deeply sacred music with like I said orchestras all over the world and I loved loved singing. And I do think that that was a balm that just acted. It just really soothed me. And I always had that.

It was like a constant companion where I could, whatever sadness, whatever grief, whatever anger, you know, I could always sort of channel it into, into singing in this beautiful sacred music. So I think that had a role to play. This sounds ridiculous now, but I've also got quite a slow heartbeat. Honestly. No one was expecting that. Turning the road.

My heart rate is generally like high 50s. Yeah. No school run, that's why. I honestly think that that's played a part because I think that, yeah yeah i'm just not as quick to stress or you know my literally the the mechanics of my body is a bit calmer and i think that's really helped it's so funny but and also i think probably more important than anything and this was both a blessing and a curse was that i came from a super duper working class family and so in part i mean that comes with its own shit don't get me wrong

complex family stuff but also i had a perspective then i wasn't born privileged yeah and so to then be in this world of privilege and traveling and all of that, I really appreciated it. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was full of awe and wonder for everything that was happening because I had, even though I hadn't had a long time, you know, just in Cardiff, growing up in a normal working class family, I still understood what it was and my family really knew what it was you know none of us had ever nobody in my lineage has ever even gone to uni yet including me and so it was like it was like I was plucked from obscurity. I think that sort of you know the success and the

money and the fame and stuff like that but didn't that impact on being working class so that's sort of almost like a guilt of it of like why has this happened to me and not other people and stuff like that because it was like you know there's poverty mindset is where you know if you do come into money so you don't know how to deal with it or what to do because there's no experience within your family of how to deal with that kind of stuff so was that not um difficult to cope with or did you find that quite quite easy i mean that's definitely happened you know within within my family and it you know more money more problems it has created issues and difficulties and but I mean it was different for me because I was a kid so you quickly adapt yeah but mind you like I still

and I think lots of people lots of people will feel like this, even though you become, you know, monetarily successful, I still very much feel like I'm working class, like I'm from working class stock. Because, you know, generations of my family have been. So, you know, deep within my DNA is, you know, peasant stock. They're all from workhouses. Everybody was an alcoholic, you know, peasant stock. They're all from workhouses. Everybody was an alcoholic, you know. You know, that's deep within my makeup.

And whilst, you know, my life has gone a different way to that of my ancestors, which I'm, you know, very thankful for and grateful for the choices now that I'm able to make, I'm hoping that I'm, you know, very thankful for and grateful for the choices now that I'm able to make. I'm hoping that I'm making choices that will still honor, you know, what they went through. Yeah. Well, I think you've done brilliantly because it's very, you know, a massive head fuck thing to deal with, especially from a young age. But it sounds like you've really got your head together, which is so important, I think. Yeah. I mean, and also, to be honest, I I've just I mean I haven't been very clever with

my money necessarily and that's probably again yeah due to the fact that we've not had it before so I did I just I spent it I spent it all willy-nilly I gave everybody money but that's good as well like you should money is energy and you shouldn't just let it stockpile you know it should be it should be free-flowing throughout the world so you know all of this hereditary you know hereditary wealth and stuff this these this is some of the main problems of our society is this accumulated wealth where you know 60 people in the world own half of the world yeah that's not right something's got to give there so I I did and now I'm in how would you feel if um your daughter came to you and said I've been asked to sing on tv how would you feel about that would you be excited or would you kind of would it bring back

a load of things where you're like oh god yeah I'd be really nervous yeah but you know what I'm really doing with my kids is is I am allowing them agency. You know, I'm giving them autonomy to be the leaders of their own lives and playing my supporting role, which is, I think, what parents should be doing, not trying to either live vicariously through their children

or create a perfect little mini-me. At the end of the day, the choice would be hers. Yeah. But I would be nervous absolutely did you ever like debate whether you should be doing certain shows or certain like was there or did it feel like when you're a teenage I suppose oh great I'll just do this I'll just do that do you know what I mean I I can't imagine at that point thinking I'm not going to do the inauguration oh I it was constantly talked about you know my

my image and the marketing plan and the majority of the time because from like 13 14 I was all I was into was you know R&B and hip-hop and soul and gospel yeah and so that that's where all of my musical passion and stuff was going, but there was no way that they were going to let me. Charlotte Church does a reggae album at the age of 14. It would have been a curveball, wouldn't it? That was not within the, you know, the master plan. Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, it was definitely curated, and my image and stuff was highly curated, but not by me. Yeah. From that, you know, you as a child, really, like 10, 11 and 12, your first album, do you think, you know, that loss of control when you should be the most creative, do you think that informed your decision

to allow your kids to choose their own path? Because you couldn't. I mean, on a subconscious level, absolutely. I reckon you could psychoanalyse the bejesus out of it. But I also think that, you know, I'm just following what the gold standard is for 21st century education nowadays. Do you really enjoy teaching?

Because when the Zoom call started, you were like, oh, sorry, my settings are wrong because I've been teaching music on Zoom. Yes. Do you enjoy that process of teaching music on zoom yes do you enjoy that process of teaching music to young people I think that I'm I'm only just finding a practice so I'm I'm going to be training over the next couple of years to be a sound healing practitioner what's that so it's it's where you are basically using whether it's your voice or gongs or bells or whatever,

for people's healing. The idea being that we're all frequencies. We're all vibrating. Each one of your cells is vibrating at a frequency. We are all energy. And that lots of healing can happen through music. And I think that's pretty universal. When you think about a breakup, the first thing you turn to is music. In grief, a lot of about breakup, the first thing you turn to is music in grief. A lot of the time,

the first thing you turn to is music. Yeah. Yourself soothing with the music yourself, you know, you put that song on to, I've got a playlist that gets me to sleep, you know, certain songs. And then it just, so I think people use music that way. I think, I think sometimes I, when you say like it was a sound healing, was it practitioner? I think some people get scared by that, but then actually when you say like, it was a sound healing, was it practitioner? I think some people get scared by that. But then actually when you break it down, you go, oh, just use your music to make yourself feel better,

whether it's to be excited for a night out or calm down after a stressful day at work. But I think sometimes it's more like the name of something makes people get scared and panicked from their own sort of insecurities. But the reality is, is actually something that's quite simple and that we're already doing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. of insecurities but the reality is actually something's quite simple and the work that we're already doing yeah exactly exactly and so with your um with your like your one year old so will she will she go into any sort of preschool nursery or she'll just be all sort of homeschooled as it were now all the way through what did any of your kids try out nurseries and stuff like that or is it straight into homeschooling no yeah the big ones did um they went to nursery for a bit and again it was like I did it and I put them in nursery because that was like what you were

supposed to do oh and you've they're this age now you've got to socialize them and I hated it they hated it as well but you know we persevered for a while. And then I found a lovely little Steiner school, a little Steiner kindergarten. And that was much better. Cause it was just, it was lovely. It was like a home from home environment, but then that wasn't quite right educationally. So that's when we were like, to be honest, when we first started homeschooling, it was like, Oh gosh, we've made a mistake here with this alternative education.

Everybody was right. Our family was right. What have we done? And so we were like, well, we'll homes we've made a mistake here with this alternative education. Everybody was right. Our family was right. What have we done? And so we were like, well, we'll homeschool them for a year till we get them back to where they should be in mainstream. And then they can go into the mainstream system. But then after that first year, we had such a great time of exploring together and getting to know the kids better and, you know, really understanding them as little human beings and all of that. It was great. So we thought, well, let's just continue. So to be honest, it was quite accidental that... Oh, really?

Yeah, that we fell into it, really. And how are they like... Because I found with homeschooling and lockdown, my youngest three-year-old was like, she was fine going to nursery, but then she really got panicked about us leaving the house or she going to nursery she's better now but had that sort of slight sort of like abandonment thing because she wasn't used to being left have your kids been okay then with like do they you know did they go for sleepovers do they go out and about without you and they are they comfortable leaving because obviously they have spent a lot of time with you at home

with the homeschooling has that been affected at all are they pretty confident with socializing and stuff they are absolutely fine they can't get far enough away they're great they're really confident in themselves but to be honest I think from young I have been trying to imbue them with a sense of you know their own capacity and capabilities I remember when my son was like two we had somebody came over and stayed with us who hadn't wasn't really like part of our friendship group or anything and was basically a new person and they watched Dexter this tiny little two-year-old climb up make his own like cereal you know go go to the fridge get the milk out and they just watch like absolutely flabbergasted that this little two year olds could do this. And it's just because you just

set those things up so that, you know, they feel they have more autonomy and agency from earlier on. But, you know, in our society, we tend to because we're all so busy, it's like we don't have enough time. This summer, for example, at the start of the year, I was in a yes phase and I just said yes to everything. Sounds like Josh's diary. Yeah, I've been in that phase since about 2008. Which basically means that the summer was way too much. Yeah, we had that.

Way too much. And I think lots of people are feeling it now, particularly after, you know, the year of COVID. But I was immediately again reminded of, hang on, I need to slow things down. I really want to have this time with my kids and I want to be able to I want to be able to slow down that time. So, you know, whether it's my little baby girl, just just having the time to follow her explorations it sounds you know like bliss and a perfect way to do things and obviously like how how do you think your the education kids would have panned out say you wasn't you know you didn't get that break as a singer and

then you you know worked a normal nine to five office job in cardiff and you know you didn't have as much time at home and things like that what what do you think that you'd still want to do this but wouldn't be able to or you wouldn't have thought about doing this and they would just be in like a mainstream school because of that's what you do like did you think how would that have impacted your thought process very interesting it's hard to imagine isn't it but I think that I've got a deep yearning as a mother to to be a mother and to fulfill that role and to be nurturing and to give it that time. And so I feel it very keenly when I'm not. I think a lot of women feel that way. But society then sort of dictates, you know, because things are so expensive, because, you know, a lot of the time two parents have got to work or you've got a single parent household.

People don't have that choice. So I think that, you know, if I didn't and I'd have to just, you know, be on the treadmill, I imagine that would create all sorts of underlying angers. Frustrations and stuff. Frustrations, totally. You have to get the gongs out a bit of self-healing totally but i get it now like i don't do it perfectly in the slightest i lose my

shit all the time you know like i'm not i'm painting a pretty picture here because that is part of our lives as well but you know some of the other stuff is you know it's really tricky and you know we are a lot of the time as well carrying on patterns from our own childhood. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and it's about trying to bring them into your conscious mind rather than them being

unconscious patterns. But I've still got loads and loads of shit that I'm constantly doing wrong. Being on a bus with Kelsey Grammer, that kind of stuff you've got to work through. What's, you know, supporting a legal with kelsey grandma that kind of stuff you gotta work through what's um you know supporting a legal war stuff like that by accident he was only a teenager what kind of stuff you've got teenage kids now teenage boy teenage girl well nearly teenage your daughter's a little bit younger but what's what's sending you over the edge of them and their

behavior are they are they doing things to wind you up now as teenagers? I mean, constantly. And I wind them up as well. And I lose my rag. And when I lose my rag, I'm completely unreasonable. I mean, I will say sorry. Like, I'm really good at saying sorry. But they are also completely unreasonable. And, you know, I mean, it gets to the stage where, you know i mean it gets to the stage where you know when you do become that sort of human taxi service and such and sometimes they can be quite callous and it is in a way it

is part of the process they do sort of need to reject you and push you away in order for them to have the have the confidence to to make their own lives and to eventually you know be able to fly the nest so at different times and you go you go they go through phases don't they so at the moment we're all in this absolutely gorgeous phase everybody's really close our communication channels are really great but you know nigh on a year ago, it would be really difficult. And my son was like, so Neanderthal man, and terrible at communicating. And then, you know, my daughter would be like, just really, I can really feel her pulling away. And that causes a sort of grief for a parent as well. We're trying to hold it all together. and we're trying to be big boys and big big

mummies and daddies about it you know and and and be able to to deal with the emotions of that but it's really big it's a really big grief I think this this idea of letting your children go and it happens over a period of time but certainly when it's come for me, like I said, we're not in that phase at the moment, but I know it's coming again and it will eventually mean that, you know, my babies leave. Maybe we should be better at talking about it. Well, that's the thing, though. You say that, but teenagers, me as a teenage boy,

didn't want to talk about anything, and especially now with social media and phones and TikTok. You know, if you are, you know, letting them decide in a democracy meeting of what they want to do that day, what if your 14-year-old says, I just want to look at TikTok all day? Do you allow that?

Or what's your, what's your argument back? Or how do you manage, you know, them sort of taking a piss with it? Basically giving them responsibility and handing over responsibility to them isn't something that happens in a day. You know, it is is it is a process but however i i do one of my boundaries i think is with phones what's the church rule what's the

church rule on phones well they don't have phones here in my house they don't have phones at all no 14 no phone yeah oh right the joy that's the new no telly at home isn't it the no phone at home they've got it At their dads Are you more strict With these rules Than their dad I don't think

I'm more strict I think we've got Our areas You know As a parent You do That you're passionate About you know

And for me So they're allowed To phone up The dads Yeah But not here So they're there To just leave the phone

At their dads And that doesn't mean Like they use the laptop And we watch stuff Yeah And you know It doesn't they still like my son still games and they my daughter still tick tocks and you know they're still on youtube and stuff but it's about the addiction essentially because everybody's addicted to it because it's made you know it is a multi billion dollar industry you every single person who's utilizing this stuff are having your brain chemistry gained essentially don't bring out too much we need listeners here we don't want to

switch off the podcast and how often are their dads then what's how does it split split up they they go to their dads twice a week on a weekday and on a weekend and that's worked for us for years. Do you get screen time reports when they've been to see how long they've been on the boat? They could be doing like 43 hours in those two days and actually it's more than a week.

I'm binging it. When would you allow them to have phones? Because I assume you've got a phone. I do and I'm really struggling with my phone currently. And I'm thinking, because at different times, I have gone back to a 3310. Oh, nice, bit of snake. I had it for 18 months once, and it was delightful.

Just 10 text messages as well. It's amazing. Honestly, it's like somebody's turned off the white noise filter. Really? Yeah. Like, oh, my gosh, I've got so much space in my mind and in my being. Honestly, it's really bizarre. I would highly recommend it to anybody. And so when would you allow them to bring their phone in the house?

Because obviously, you know, your boy's 14, I think. Is he 14? I know my daughter's 14 and my boy's so she's 14 so it's really within the next year or so two years she'll be able to go and earn her own money yeah and work in a job so she has a job gets her payback and goes and buys a phone is that phone still not allowed in your house about have you got an age or like when that's going to be okay because it's getting to the point when they become adults you know to be honest what was meant to happen was that she was going to have a phone at 14 yeah but she asked for a dog instead that is a good choice that worked great for me so so we'll see of course there will be a point where it's just like okay fine but even then then i'm i will like ring fence family time and stuff yeah where we are all

handing our phones in or our technology at a certain time so we can be together and we can do other stuff you know that go for a walk that we can go stargazing and we can go bowling and we can go we can read a book so that we're not just constantly consuming entertainment. Yeah, exactly. It's too much for their brains to develop. There's a lot to take in, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, brilliant. Thanks so much, Charlotte.

It's been great. It's been so great, Charlotte. Thank you so much. Absolutely fascinating. No worries. And where can people find out more about this, your project? So if you follow me on Instagram, I'm the real Charlotte. Oh, no, no.

Our listeners don't have phones. So I don't know. Is there a newsletter? No, neither do I. Yeah. I'm the real Charlotte Church on Instagram or on any of the other social media platforms. And, yeah, you can find out about all of the cool stuff that's going on.

Oh, brilliant. Thank you so much, Charlotte. So great, Charlotte. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys great, Charlotte. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys. Lovely to chat to you. Bye-bye. Bye. Charlotte Church, Josh. Look at that. Look at the understanding we've got there, Rob. Oh, my God. It's like Skulls,

Lampard and Gerrard, all not working efficiently together. How the fuck did they not win a World Cup? Jesus Christ. Sick of it. It shouldn't be he was better. It should be how the fuck did that not work? Sorry, I just, that's an old wound that really annoys me.

Yeah, sorry. Sorry, Rob. I didn't want to reopen that by saying the same thing as you at the same time. John Turing, Rio Ferdinand, Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Rampart. Ashley Cole, Gary Neville. It sounds like, you know, when you play FIFA for ages and absolutely smash it and get everyone and it's been pointless by the end.

And that was our team. Anyway, Charlotte Church. How many Charlotte Church fans do you think have enjoyed the last minute of this podcast? I'll tell you what, though. Giggs, what a player he was. Ramsey in the middle. Bale.

Rush. Toshak. Charlotte Church here There was more references to Kelsey Grammar than I was expecting True Yeah that was true

I think I like My take on that is Kelsey Grammar School is something she hates isn't it Why did I not say that Why did you not say it Josh

That's got widder written all over That's the classic widders Oh disaster I'm going to be Can we get her back on the zoom michael i've got something to add anyway uh it's been an absolute pleasure yes it's been great i

think charlotte i think i love charlotte church i think she's lovely i think for you know someone um i think she's doing really good really good things and all those community and volunteer projects she does are great so yeah give her a follow on instagram great guest and um i think it's always interesting to see people's different takes on education and stuff like that. Totally agree. And I'll always take a Kelsey Grammar, you know, celeb story. Exactly. I met him once.

Did you? He knows, he's mates with Tom Allen. Sorry, what? Tom Allen knows Kelsey Grammar and I don't know why. How does Tom Allen know Kelsey Grammar? No idea. But we were out in London. He went, did you go for a drink?

I went, all right. I'm going to meet my mate. I got there. What? Yeah, but if you're meeting Kelsey Grammar, you don't say. But we were out in London. He went, do you want to go for a drink? I went, all right. He went, I'm going to meet my mate. I got there. What? Yeah, but if you're meeting Kelsey Grammar, you don't say I'm meeting my mate. You've got to say. You've got to say. Who is Kelsey Grammar?

You don't just say my mate. So I got there and I was all confused because I'm not a massive Frasier Kelsey Grammar fan. But I'm obviously aware of what it is. I've never watched it. That's insane. I've never watched it, but I know what it is. So when I met him, I felt like I knew him from something else. And he went, oh, it's my friend Kelsey. I was like, met him I felt like I knew him from something else and he went

oh it's my friend Kelsey I was like hello Kelsey all I could think was that's a girl's name did you mention it did you mention Fraser I should have guessed I met him at 9.30am

it's the only time he's that's a bit of fun isn't it a bit of fun right see you on Tuesday bye That's a bit of fun, isn't it? Right, see you on Tuesday. Bye. Hello, I'm Tom Crane. And I'm Simran Shah.

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