Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S03 EP42 - Louis Theroux

Episode Date: December 3, 2021

S03 EP42 - Louis Theroux Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant documentary filmmaker, journalist, broadcaster, author, and podcast titan - Louis Theroux. Louis' fantastic new book 'Theroux The Keyhole: Diaries of a grounded documentary maker' is available now. Thanks to everyone who bought tickets for the live show in January - we sold in less than 15 minutes! If you want to be first in line for any potential future live dates, merchandise, and any additional show info then sign up to the mailing list here;parentinghellpodcast.mailchimpsites.com Thanks - Rob and Josh xxxIf you want to get in touch with the show here's how:EMAIL: [e-mail]: @parenting_hellINSTAGRAM: @parentinghellA 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willicombe. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with your tips, advice and, of course, tales of parenting woe.

Because, let's be honest, there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing. Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hell with... Ethan, can you say Josh Wibbecombe? Josh Wibbecombe. And Rob Beckett? Rob Beckett. Also, Mummy has a baby in her tummy. What's the baby going to be called?

Rob Beckett. There we go. That's big news, isn't it? The baby's to be called? Rob Beckett. There we go. That's big news, isn't it? The baby's going to be called Rob Beckett. Is that true? Hi, Rob and Josh. Loving the podcast. Thanks for getting us through last year. I've

attached a clip of our son, Ethan, reading out your names as part of the intro. It's the usual Rob Beckett and Josh something unpronounceable. I'm also sending it because our second child is due in two days. And Ethan has decided to name him

stroke her Rob Beckett. Sorry Josh you didn't make the cut. Keep up the good work David, Laura, Ethan and the bump Rob Beckett. Okay so they are calling it Rob Beckett though. Like Rob Beckett first name then their surname they're not

that's just so he lied not a fan of that actually quite disappointed in Ethan's dad but that's that's a bit fun isn't it

that's weird that a child knows our names now it is weird isn't it yeah forced to say it by the parents

but it's you know they've appeared on a you know I was going to say a boardwinning podcast we're not we've not we've won any awards no uh we've been nominated a podcast we are a podcast and there's not many of them um how are you josh still getting up at 4 30 a.m no sorted he woke up at nine this morning um i'm going to suggest something is he still getting going up at 4.30, but you don't really want to talk about it?

Yeah. Okay, that's fine. We'll talk about other things. I'm going to sort it, Rob. I'm going to sort it, Rob. I know you're going to sort it, but at the moment, it's still 4.30am. Let me talk to you about things

that are going wrong in my life to make you feel a bit better. Have you seen the film Falling Down? Yes, I have. Yeah, you know how he feels like he's going to sort out society? Yeah. I feel like that. That's how my mental state is at the moment okay so you like your michael duncan falling down yeah that's your mental state okay that's slightly worrying i do

feel like that i should call someone about that yeah okay well you can call me for 4 15 if you want i'll be around for a chat yeah i'll send the police for a welfare check at about, what, 3.15am? They'll probably be up there just waiting for the kid to get up for the day. But no, this is a bit... My daughters get a little bit of iPad time or Kindle Fire time on the weekends. Yeah. Before bed and in the daytime if they want it, because they don't have it in a week.

Anyway, I found out that my youngest... My eldest is scared of spiders. My youngest has been finding spiders somehow on her iPad if they want it because they don't have it in a week. Anyway, I found out that my youngest, my eldest is scared of spiders. My youngest has been finding spiders somehow on her iPad and showing it to her sister to make her scared before bed. Oh my word. Sibling wars kicking off early doors.

She's sharp, but evil, isn't she, that three-year-old? Yeah, I think they both are to a point, but you know, you need a bit of that in life. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it Rob?

So this happens. I don't know if your daughter does this. My three, four year old nearly, jumps out on me to scare me, like hides. And then when I go around the corner, if you're going to get in the car,

she'll hide behind the car and jump out. And obviously she isn't scary. She's four. And sometimes I don't even see her jump out. She go, she tells me off for not being scared. And I do sort of think that's more her problem for not being scary enough.

You can't really tell someone off. And then sometimes I go, oh, like to pretend. And she goes, you're just pretending and tells me off. And I think the blame really lies at the feet of the four-year-old. She's not up to the job. Yeah. If she wants to scare you. She's got to go about it in a different way.

Yeah, just like running to the road. That'd shit you up. Yeah, I'm not suggesting that. I mean, that's... Don't suggest that to her. But Uncle Josh has been on the phone. He's been up early. He's got some crazy ideas.

Yeah. If you want to scare me, play dead. Yeah. Pretend to choke on your food. Stuff like that. That'll scare me. Jumping out from behind a car as a tiny little blonde-haired girl that's quite cute. No. But do stuff like that, that'll scare me. Jumping out from behind a car as a tiny little blonde-haired girl that's quite cute,

no, but do stuff like that, yeah. Yeah. Did I tell you the nursery school teacher pulled me up on me talking about Remembrance Sunday? What?

See, you know I said she keeps talking about death because they got to talk about Remembrance Sunday. Oh, yeah, yeah.

She went, oh, yeah, sorry about that. I went, pardon? She went, I keep forgetting people

listen to this. Oh, God, yeah, me too. And she went, sorry about the Remembrance Sunday thing. I was like, I keep forgetting people listen to this oh god yeah me too and she went sorry about the remembrance Sunday thing I was like oh what she went oh yeah

because your daughter you mentioned on the podcast that your daughter keeps talking about it and she's a bit obsessed by it I was like oh yeah I was so pathetic you know on here

I'm like oh yeah it's banging out of order why are they doing that I was like oh yeah it's okay don't worry it's just part of the curriculum isn't it and they've got to learn

about it sometime yeah I'm really sorry I walked off I thought you maggot Rob you pathetic little lizard man shuffling off tail between his legs but yeah

she said she showed him a video of it of like a rabbit and the rabbit was involved in it which sounded more horrific but I don't know what video that was what the rabbit

the rabbit went over the top on 19 like I think so I don't know it had myxomatosis anyway it had nothing to live for yeah of course oh yeah

oh my god no there's yeah it's of poppies on CBeebies. Children's Remembrance Sunday's two-minute silence alternative. So it's a video of a... It's a CBeebies shawl

of, basically, rabbits jumping around in a field, and then... Oh, no, that's... Oh, this is awful. Oh, no. There's a rabbit hiding under a helmet while there's bombs going off.

Oh, my God. It's horrific. That's worse. I'd rather she watched Saving Private Ryan. I don't remember who's listening, Rob. Oh, sorry God. It's horrific. That's worse. I'd rather she watched Saving Private Ryan. Remember who's listening, Rob. Oh, sorry. Yeah, actually, it's really informative. It's great that they learn.

You maggot, Rob. You little maggot. Poppies is a children's remembrance animation that sees a great war experienced by animal inhabitants of a World War I battlefield. I don't think you need the shell-shocked rabbit. No. She's only four.

Just be silent for two minutes. Why are we doing this? You'll find out at one point. Has your child ever been silent for two minutes? Oh, God, there's a bird that's nearly getting shot by... No, my child's never been silent for two minutes. I once, when I was doing boxing pads, there's a snail that's scared.

They're all hiding under an helmet. I remember I was doing boxing pads at a gym once, and I was doing it, and I was doing at a gym once and i was doing it i was doing quite well and as i was doing it was the combos were really hitting it was really loud and there was no noise apart from me no one was like doing weights no one's running like and everyone's like sort of looking at me and i was just like am i fucking amazing at this have i stopped have i stunned the gym into silence with my skills in boxing no it wasn't it was remembrance sunday oh. Oh, my God.

Two minutes silence. Oh, my God. And I'm absolutely crunching out with a combo. Oh, my God, Rob. But my head went, God, I must be good at this. I've stopped everyone in their tracks. Then all the poppies come out,

and then the rabbit's all right, but there is a big bit in the middle that's quite bleak. Do you want to say anything else to the nursery teacher? I think they're doing a brilliant job, and thank you very much for casting her as Mary. They've obviously seen great potential in her acting ability. Right, now, today's guest is Louis Theroux. Yes, it's Louis Theroux.

I loved this. He Louis Therouxed us at points, didn't he? Yeah, yeah, he did try and Louis Theroux us a little bit, but then I think I laughed at an inappropriate point because he talked about having beef with other people in the documentary-making world. It really made me laugh because how can you have beef with a documentary maker?

It's awkward. What are you going to do when you see each other? Just give each other a wry look, roll your eyes and walk off? I mean, it's not like Tupac, is it, and Biggie? I love Louis Farouk. I think he's amazing. He's brilliant. I love chatting to him.

He's great, isn't he? Yeah, it was a wonderful experience. His book is out. He mentions it. Don't worry. Of course he's got a book. Of course he's great isn't he yeah it was a wonderful experience his book is out he mentions it don't worry of course he's got a book of course he's got a bloody book you know the score

you know the score now people exactly you want a big dog you have to mention their book let's be honest if someone comes on here before Christmas they haven't got a book

what's going on also our books are still available they're still available they're still available I went to bloody hell on my 8 hour round trip because my book's still available.

Anyway. Yes. Buy our books. Then buy Louis Theroux's book. Yeah in that order. In that order. Buy all three. Gosh.

I'm still tired guys. And Paris Furies and Michael McIntyre's and Jimmy Carr's. Who else? Who else has had a book? Izzy Surtee. Izzy Surtee.

Fanny McGinnis. Lucy Beaumont. Ellie Taylor. Also the Bible. Yeah. Do you think in the last two months we've sold more than the Bible, Rob? Are you suggesting that me and you combined are bigger than Jesus? This is Louis Theroux.

Enjoy yourselves. Hello, Louis Theroux. How are you? Good. How are you doing? Very good. Very good. Excited to have you on. I'm ecstatic, Louis Theroux. How are you? Good. How are you doing? Very good. Very good. Excited to have you on.

I'm ecstatic, Louis, mainly because we're massive fans, but also we need to say thank you for not starting up your podcast again so that we can operate around the top three level of the podcast charts because we all know when Louis Theroux comes out, you start to dominate it. So thanks for just letting a couple of young guys have a go. It's Peter Crouch. He was the other one that was always bobbing around at the top.

It's quite an annoying thing, isn't it, when you see the same names popping up? Yeah. Currently, the podcast charts without you are like the Moscow Olympics when the USA didn't attend. It's like these gold medals are not quite worth having. We all know. We all know deep down.

And then we're basically on performance-enhancing drugs because we do two a week. So it's not really a fair chart, is it, when we do two a week, you know? Well, good. Well done on doing your podcast so successfully, though. I'll be happy to join the fray and give you a proper run for your money.

So any time in the next maybe couple of months, I might settle back up, you know? Really? Can I ask a question about, we will get onto everything else, but I'm a fan of the podcast and the episode where you interviewed Ruby Wax, I'd say it's possibly my favourite episode

of a podcast I've ever listened to. Of course, I've not heard that one. Oh, it's incredible. And it's so honest and, well, I think awkward to an extent at the start when she's being honest about how she felt about you. Oh, that's right. Well, I went in, I'd heard that she was...

Did you know this was going to happen? Of course, yeah, because, I mean, that was sort of the premise of the conversation, was the idea that I'd heard that she had a... Well, how do I put it? She felt a profound rivalry bordering on ill will, actually way beyond that. She basically said on Adam Buxton's podcast,

when she heard my name, it made her want to vomit because she felt that I'd, as she put it, stolen her career. Because she was in this sort of documentary, quirky documentary maker of offbeat subjects and then doing it very, and, um, doing it very, and also celebrities and doing it very successfully. And then around the same time I was, I, or a little later I came along and did on BBC two similar sorts of subjects. And she felt,

um, that that was, that I was basically copying her. And then, and then when she, I don't know quite what happened, but anyway, she came to the end of the road at the BBC and felt that maybe my success, such as it was, played a role in that. In her defence though, Louis, you did do the pilot in an American accent, didn't you? That's something that we don't really talk about anymore, but that was a little bit. And then you changed it, didn't you, for the series?

Yeah, I did. And actually, yeah, the thing the thing is look there's room for everyone is the attitude i take you know what i mean like of course the same as we were joking about the podcast at the same time there's understandable little rivalry when you see whippersnappers i'd cast you two as whippersnappers that's the bottom line is you're younger than i am give me a chance to be a big dog just for a little while. You know what I mean? And then when younger people come along and then you're like, Oh, I felt a bit this way. This is Tate. This is going way back now.

When it's very, very different, you're going to think like, but he's nothing like you and you'd be right. But when, when Sasha Baron Cohen came along with Ali G like I'd had about two years of building a little following on BBC two with my documentaries being a bit quirky, a bit silly, asking cheeky questions. And then suddenly everyone's saying, have you seen that Ali G? He's amazing. It's amazing. Ali G. And it was obvious. It was a hugest phenomenon. It was way beyond anything I've ever achieved before or since.

And it was, it was quite annoying and I couldn't really justify it because, um, it was, he's a, he's obviously a comic character, a prankster. And as I say, very different, but it's hard not to be irked by that level of success. Anyway, I think I was allergy to Ruby wax. I was the younger person who she perceived as being more successful. So when we went on the podcast, I thought, let's get it out of the way. I'll ask that question near the top and we'll just deal with it. And it's not, it's always going to be awkward when you say to someone,

I hear that when you hear my name, you want to throw up. You know, tell me more about that. But we kind of eroded it and actually got to a place of sort of, you know, basically mutual understanding. And she seems a lovely person based on, you know, that chat that we had.

I think everyone gets that a little bit in whatever profession, isn't it? If you're doing a certain job for a bit and then someone else comes along and it's sort of, it's more of an internal issue that's sort of exposed and the person it's aimed towards is a bit irrelevant almost. Yeah. No, no, that's exactly right. Because it's not, it's really about yourself. And she's got the wisdom to recognise that.

She said, it's not about you, Louis. It was what you represented. I'm not doing the right accent. But she was talking about how it was something that she was sort of projecting onto me. Yes. Anyway, probably it was me as well, a bit. No, but it must be annoying though, because you're really nice.

You almost want the person that comes through to be a prick, then it can be annoying though if because you're really nice you almost want the person that comes through to be a prick then it can be sort of justified well yeah that's the judo isn't it be nice sometimes you've got what is it you've got to be kind to be cruel that's what there is by being the nice guy you you can you can actually confuse people even more but but i genuinely when i heard that she had a beef with me but way back, I heard about it first in the 90s. What did I feel? I suppose it's kind of like when someone has an issue with you, it's a little bit almost, it's like a compliment, isn't it?

Yeah, 100%. In the rap world, I don't know how, you know, they call it haters. Not that Ruby was a hater, but in a way it's like, you know, the idea is like there's haters out there, man, and it's like haters going on hate, idea is like there's haters out there, man. And that hate, it's like haters going on hate. And then you, you basically, you feed off the hate, you know, you feed off the jealousy and the envy. I take a lot of my life lessons from, from gangster rap. Just to put that out there.

I want more of that. I mean, I, I, my, my career dream was for Stuart Lee to write a routine about me. Then you'd nailed it as a comedian. If he wrote a routine slagging you off, you knew you'd smashed it it and then done it oh you've been Stuart Leeds I've been Stuart Leeds have you really I have been Stuart Leeds but I don't know what he said but I've been told I've been Stuart Leeds oh really and I know that I'm not strong enough to oh I love Stuart Leeds I think he's great and I want to very real. This has got very real. Josh, you literally, you actually mean that, don't you?

Yeah. What would happen? Do you respect him too much, or just anyone's bile would bother you in that way? No, I, do you know what? Oh, my God, I'm getting Louis Therouxed. I can't believe it's happening. This is great.

I don't know if I respect him too much i can honestly say that that's off the list it's like a doctor going through issues that one first yeah let's get that across i i think he's an amazing stand-up um i think um I just think it's like I don't read reviews because I think if I read a review of a tour that I was doing, even if I didn't agree with something about a bit, every time I then did that bit of stand-up, that would come into my head. Do you know what I mean?

And I think I don't know what I've got to gain by listening to myself being Stuart Leed. How do you know that you were Stuart Leed? Because one of my friends has seen me be Stuart Leed live. And he came back and joyfully said, oh, you'll never guess what. You're not going to believe what. Someone doesn't like you. He texted me, Louis, the night before my wedding to say that he was watching Stuart Leed and Stuart Leed had done a routine about it.

And I was like, I don't want that hanging over me do you want me to find out what it is josh and i can read it out to you on the podcast one episode just as that almost like as a therapy sort of thing of just i don't i think that's the opposite of how therapy works no not in my not in my office in my surgery this is how it's done um Anyway. The point is that anyone's opinion, it doesn't really, you know, you could say, oh, I don't care what people think, but anyone's opinion can bother you. I once, when I did my first series of Weird Weekends, there was a character and it was a neo-Nazi who lived in a compound

in far northern Idaho. He was borderline, well, I mean, he was politically deranged. And he was also quite comical because he was so camp. And he was called Jerry Groodle, and he was a big fan of Are You Being Served? And I thought he was such an amusing guy, this sort of neo-Nazi who was a fan of Are You Being Served? But when the shows went out, I thought it would be really funny if I, as a bit, I'll send him all the show, all the first four episodes of Weird Weekends, and I'll get his thoughts on them, and that'll be quite funny.

And I'll write a little article about it or something, you know, because he's a fan of British comedy, you know. He liked Benny Hill as well. So I sent them, and I called him up, and he said, I thought you did a pretty good job of making fools of people. And I was like, ooh, that stings a bit. And then he went on to say, like, you gloried in it, ridicul to say like you gloried in it ridiculing people you gloried in it and i was like and paul suddenly went like i suddenly thought what's this weird feeling like

i'm getting upset by by the fact that a neo-nazi didn't like my tv programs like that doesn't make any kind of sense and yet there i was feeling that artistic personalities are sensitive right well i don't think you ridiculed anyone you're more like a gopro at a all you can eat buffet yeah that's what i mean like you know that you're exposing what's going on but they're the ones serving up the plate you know i like that that's a nice way of putting it a gopro buffet is that you like yeah yeah i'll put that on my resume if you're looking for a gopro a buffet, and who isn't? This guy.

Let's talk to you about kids. You've got three kids? Three boys, yeah. Three boys. And what are their ages? 15, 13, and one just turned seven. Oh, okay. The first question that comes to me when thinking about lutherie parenting is you know we've been here 10 minutes i've opened up in a way i haven't opened up on

this podcast before you've got that ability thank you for that do you use your documentary and interviewing skills in dialogue with your own children and are you able to get them to open up to you in a way that i wouldn't be able to do with my children uh it would be nice if that were the case wouldn't it would be nice if my professional powers such as they are were applicable in the domestic setting if anything I I and I don't know why this is the case but um it's almost the reverse. And if I can segue kind of slightly brazenly into a plug for my book, through the keyhole, only because that's the, it's very on point. That's the sort of the theme really is the idea that whatever sort of cool headedness that I display when I'm on location, doing stories, doing documentaries, somehow i completely lose when i'm talking when

i'm with my family it's really odd like i'm reading about your christmas day in the book yeah really you're angry and you're hungover is the word hungover yeah very hungover on christmas day if you were if you remember christmas of 2020 it wasn't it wasn't the best of christmases that was the one when Christmas was canceled. Do you remember? Yes. The rug was pulled from under us. We had a turkey that was designed to feed 30 people. And then two days before Christmas or whenever it was, it was like, well, we're not having Christmas this year. Sorry guys. He sat there with an enormous turkey. And then the night before, know i got into i know i'm going

off topic but you know so it was that feeling of like well i guess we've got really nothing much to do other than um speaking of myself drink gallons of bourbon and and what it was i was watching die hard three or four we were doing a sort of die hard marathon with the two older boys anyway but the point being that I think it's the feeling of, um, I think it's like I, I, in a professional setting, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm so focused. I know what I'm there to do. And I have a sort of almost clinical detachment from what's going on. But when I went, when you're with your family, it's almost the reverse. You've got so much skin in the game, you're the one trying to when i'm on location

i'm sort of trying to wind people up if anything you know you're trying to make something happen right you could catalyze an argument on a porn set you know or between a husband and wife who are swingers that's golden right but and on the home front theoretically you're trying to make things run smoothly but when the kids are telling you to naff off or whatever it is, and you, and actually, um, you feel so much of your own vanity is invested in how they behave. And then if they insult you, the book is sort of unpacking a large part of this, but that the weirdness of feeling, um, of feeling sort of all the rage and upset that you get as a dad who was incapable of asserting the slightest bit of control do you know what i mean yeah it feels like the most

irrelevant person in the room at any particular time and you think how did it i've got three BAFTAs like surely i can get a phone out of the out of the hand of a 12 year old do you know what i mean like this doesn't match up sounds like the middle class version of what you call kids Surely I can get a phone out of the hand of a 12-year-old. Do you know what I mean? Like, this doesn't match up. Sounds like the middle-class version of what you call kids. I've got three BAFTAs. I've got three Chavis indoors. Yeah.

Yeah, but they just don't. Have they watched your shows and stuff? The older ones. The older ones, if they've watched them. Well, okay, interestingly, I've got some shows going out that are basically repackaged there's shows that are sort of looking back at my old archive you know which a lot of that was going on when no one could make programs in lockdown some shows like that as well ruby wax did some my ones were called life on the edge ruby waxes were good as well i've just been sick

here's some videos yeah exactly the first time i vomited about louis thoreau what's your view on stacy dooley you call her i'm pro everyone do stacy's terrific like stacy and that whole genre of first person reportage stacy's tremendous and actually um this is quite you know mobine azar is also really good reggie eight Yates, who hasn't made a project. Alice Levine. Very, very good. She's been doing a lot of stuff. I had the privilege of executing Alice's most recent project, yeah. But the point was, oh, the kids watching it. So I sat down to watch my own programme, which I'm, you know,

there's no shame in that, is there? So I'll watch it go out. I think there's a bit, but not a lot. Yeah. No, exactly. You two, nine o'clock. See what I've had a couple of drinks. It's a slight sliver, like a sliver of a cake.

You know what it's like, Peter, but how does this look when the continuity announcer goes, and now prepare for some strong language as we join Louis Theroux, as he looks back, you know what I mean? And you're like, oh, this is, you know, you've seen it in the edit suite, but how does it groove into the continuity of the program? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, of course.

Yeah. An eye dent comes up and you're like, Oh, this is exciting. And then I looked up and my 15 year old was in the room and I thought, that's the first time I've seen him actually sit down and watch. Well, begin to watch one of my programs. And then two minutes later I saw when he was on his phone. Oh no. How did that feel?

It felt completely fine. It felt completely fine. Because actually, I don't expect them to see me as Louis Theroux documentary maker. Quite evidently, I'm Louis Theroux. I'm dad, right? I'm just dad. And actually, I think if they ever want to watch them, you know, they'll watch them, and I'm happy to talk to them about that.

But in the end, them respecting my professional role is the last thing I'm worried about. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Literally. Exactly. You know, just to be able to, I don't know, like find out what they actually do at school. You know what I mean? Or, or, or to, to be able to, I don't know,

like get them to engage in, in some domestic chores like or eat some vegetable you know what I mean like not to sound really prosaic like the idea like have you watched my program about Jimmy Savile do you think I could have done more to unlock I mean that's quite that's not really yeah that's not what that's not no father should be i bet the team like the 15 year old one watch the porn one that's what they're probably going to watch yeah they probably dave probably yeah and and and they pro and actually maybe they do watch um some of them without me even being aware of it and prefer not. I think the whole idea of me having a profile as well is they're somewhat ambivalent about. But one thing, because as I'm out and about, we quite often get approached by people for selfies, which they find boring, you know, and even sometimes people go,

okay, your dad got to say, thanks for the selfie. We've got to say your dad, he's a great man. You, your dad, he's a really great man. No, I'm not saying this happens on a weekly basis, but you know, once every six months or so, you know, someone will say something quite cringe like that. I think it's cringe because they don't, they don't want to hear that. What are they going to go? Oh, thanks. Yeah. Yeah.

I guess he is a great man. Do you know what I mean? And they think like, so why is he such an irrational guy or irrelevant? You know what I mean? Why is he so drunk at Christmas crying at Guyard? Why is he forcing us to eat so much turkey? So in the end, yeah, the idea of me having a profile is something they're not. And I think when I go to school, we were doing sixth form open days over the last week.

And it's always like my oldest, who's 15, he's like, he says, can mum come instead of you? And I'm thinking, that's a bit rude. Thinking, why? Because he knows that I'm so irrelevant, that I've got no decision making. You know what I mean? Like I input. So I said what what why why would you rather mum came and he and he said oh just because you know people

see you on tv and I realized it was just that he just didn't want to be around it yeah he didn't want any of that murmuring yeah because at school you just want to be left you just want to get through it don't you don't have any extra unnecessary attention about whether it's the coat you've got or what you're doing that lesson and stuff like that so it's just an immediate oh like the lights on you straight away if you walk into the yeah and sure enough when we went i went with him to one of them and and actually i thought i most of the time i thought this is fine i don't think there's any ripples of people sort of noticing but then at the end i saw a little clump of sixth formers and you know how you get a free song when you feel like you've been clocked yeah and they were looking up and

it's almost like they start going quiet but buzzing and they got the phone it is it is no it isn't it is i'll tell you look look there is yeah documentaries bbc too yeah and i thought here we go and it was uh but no it didn't it wasn't like they came over and asked for selfies which would be fine anyway but it was just that thing of i can see why if you were 15 and just trying to just trying to get through the day that would just be something you didn't i went to uni and a jack straws daughter was uh was in my halls and she was defined by being jack straws daughter yeah you know, obviously at the time was a bigger deal than it is now. Well, you've weirdly

You wouldn't think that would be a huge cross to bear would you? No. Well, you've got to remember this was, it's not like being Michael Jackson's kid, is it? Do you know what I mean? It's like, what is there to be called blankets? It's hard enough. Never mind his dad being Michael Jackson. Well, tell that to the people of Iraq, Louis, who were being invaded at the time.

Oh no, your dad's invading Iraq. That's the last thing you need for double science. You're a Munich. Right. Political got you. Because you've got quite a lot of young fans, Louis, haven't you, really? You're sort of a bit of, on paper,

because your documentaries came out ages ago, you spread quite a lot of ages. Not all of them. Some of them did. I have actually had some more recent ones. No, but what I'm saying is, but on paper, you wouldn't expect an 18-year-old

to be a big fan of a documentary about sort of crystal meth or whatever your money is. Right, exactly. Or indeed a programme that was made in the 90s about UFOs or the porn industry. Because a lot of them, as you say, are older and 25 years

I've been making programmes or more. And so they have enjoyed lot of them as you say are old and you know 25 years i've been making programs or more and um so they have enjoyed some of them an unlikely afterlife and um i i wish i could shed more light on why that would be the case and i'm very grateful for that for the for the fact that i've got some relevance well because you've like pop up on like tiktok and instagram and twitter like your memes and stuff of louis ferroux reacting and no context louis ferroux and things like that so you've sort of really been adopted by that sort of gen z what they'd never saw those documentaries firsthand but now they've sort of discovered you and through that and then now watching all your documentaries yeah netflix is behind part of it i think really i think there was a time when

they came on when netflix first appeared what was that 2013 or thereabouts and then um it led to a and now i was sort of being more people were getting more onto twitter and i remember when i first noticed on twitter that there was this sort of unlikely buzz around old programs people kept saying oh louis theroux my money don't jiggle jiggle like references to a rap episode yeah i'd made sort of 20 years before so i think that permanent present of of netflix where anything that's on there is slightly timeless you know a lot of people that you know seinfeld uh programs like you know the again, old programs, but my kids love Friends, right?

Yeah. And for them, that's not defined by being from the 90s, right? That's just a great show that sits up there on Netflix and that they endlessly binge. And would you still watch Friends with them? You know what? 18 months of the pandemic, I didn't find I had an enormous amount of time to sit and watch old episodes of friends. You know, I, I, I know a lot that people had different lockdown experiences, different pandemic experiences, and some people, especially people without kids,

I think got quite bored and felt, Oh, now I can actually arrange my tools in the tool shed or do these jobs that I've never got around to do. I've found that I was, I never had time. We had, you know, if you had kids at home and I don't know how old your kids are, but certainly the fact of us having a five-year-old who turned six, um, in fact, and then he turned seven this year. Um, it was that idea of like, we've got to, it was triage. There was no, there was nothing. There was never a moment where I thought, Oh, you know, I don't know what to do now. Cause I've, I've got so much free time.

You know what I mean? We had a four, we had a four year old and a two year old. So it was like, but now me and Lou go, Oh, we need to sort that cupboard out. And I was like, Lou, we never did that in the pandemic. Well, where the fuck are we going to find time to do it now yeah first day of the pandemic i said to rose i'm gonna do one cupboard a day through the pandemic and then we'll have sorted the house out yeah i did one cupboard on day one and that was it and that cupboard is now a right off is it yeah i did my wires

behind the you know the wires behind the tv oh TV, tie them up and a little rubber band. And then I'm going to get all the adapters and put them in an elegant little box. And I thought, well, this is going to be great. We're going to get, and then that was all done by the end of that day. Basically. I think what, what was it? I think that, I think it was the degree of, um, I think it was the amount of time that was eaten up with the homeschooling. And then, and then we started a company, uh, my wife and I, so we were both full-time, you know, there was no case of being furloughed. We were,

we were attempting to get commissions for the company that we started. So there was an enormous amount of stress around that. So yeah, the question was about friends. No, I don't,'t what i did i loved it like in my dream scenario i kick back with the kids and we play fortnite together right like i i'm i'm capable of enjoying you know video games i grew up with defender and scramble those are probably before your time yeah but um you know the idea of i don't seem to have i increasingly i think like oh maybe when i'm retired i'll be able to play video games because I don't have time now. Yeah.

Do you consider yourself, I know you're big into hip hop as well. Do you consider yourself kind of down with what they're into and stuff like that? Or would you, would that be a worse nightmare to try and reach them on that level? or would that be a worse nightmare to try and arrange them on that level? I don't actively attempt to sort of, you know, be hip or like speak their language, but I'm curious about what they like. And actually our 13-year-old, he's very strict about, well, I want to put this in the right way.

Basically, he insists that we listen to capital extra whenever we drive anywhere which is a sort dedicated to almost exclusively to to grime and drill music right of a fairly high octane source and and so it's a lot of digger d and aj tracy and D and AJ Tracy and Dig Dat and H and I could go on. From Stats? No, the new one. I was joking. H and RD and all that. RD, yeah. But you

must like this, right, Louis? Do you not like it? Of course I do. But occasionally I feel like, look, I wouldn't mind hearing a bit of Radio 4. There is a pandemic. Might be nice to know whether COVID's surging. You know what I mean? New variant lockdown, you know, you think the war is, you know, the world's kind of teetering on the edge of apocalypse, but fine,

let's listen to the new RD and dig a D why not? But it is no, but you do, you know, and I enjoy the music. So by osmosis, I've become, yeah, a connoisseur of, you know, the modest sort of whatever's in the kind of the grime and R&B charts. And then with regard to the gaming, I just see what they're into, but I don't get to play it. Oh, really? Can you play it, though, if, like, you had the time? Probably not.

No. One of the chastening things, there's a game that the that the little one was playing it's called duck game i think and there's these ducks that run around you're picking up guns and shooting each other i think it's a playstation game and i tried to play it and it was there's something quite you know how with kids in general especially small kids it's like obviously i've got to let him win some of the time how but can i win a bit you know that's the educational right you can't let them win all the time they'll never learn they won't be socialized and also i quite want to win is the other part of it but with the duck game it was this weird thing about oh i've got to that point of middle age where i'm actually worse than

a five-year-old at the end yeah like I'm trying to win and losing I'm as I've always played computer games and stuff but I am drowning a little bit trying to keep up with the way they play and also like when I thought they never used to do this multiplayer multiplayer when I was a kid was you had an attachment that you plugged into your machine and everyone used to come to your house yeah but now it's all online and everywhere I find it so hard to keep up and you see like you a 10-year-old will just destroy, destroy you on those games. And it's almost impossible to fully play with them.

I don't want to play strangers across the world. It is fun. Is it? Yeah. But you're not playing strangers. You're playing your friends just in their house. Oh, right. Okay.

You know, you don't have... But you're not playing like... Josh is coming off more middle-aged than I am. I am. Louie, it's an absolute nightmare. I do not want to play strangers across the world. you don't have... Josh is coming off more middle-aged than I am. Oh, Louis, it's an absolute nightmare. I do not want to play strangers across the world. I don't. Can they see me through the screen?

Where are they? Turn that camera off. Put a blanket over the webcam. The television's talking to me. It's talking to me. How do they know my name? People do do this. Surely.

I'm sure. Alex Brooker from The Last Leg, he got suspended by FIFA for having a go at a child. It's like Roblox. There is this strange... I don't know if Roblox is the one where... That's big, isn't it? You suspect that there's a... No disrespect to the platform,

but you suspect there's populations of paedophiles all playing it and saying, I am playing science. And you think, oh, but maybe it is. I'm sure it's fine. But you just, the anonymous hordes with usernames. But, you know, this is the world we live in. You're now on the lookout for paedophiles at all times, Louis,

after the Jimmy Savile pulled them all over your ass. Aren't we all, though? Aren't we all? Isn't that the nature of, I we're in the sense of like a world in which um we're connected virtually to people as you say strangers across the world stranger danger they invade our homes almost literally yeah our devices you know tick tock you know i you know when your kid comes to you and says i've made a new friend on roblox don't pretend that like some part of your mind is like hang on red red not sir not so like peter

as a peanut yeah yeah well you know that's the thing it's that loss of control where my mom still now always goes like even though she's like i'm 35 and she'll be like she still wants me to have the same friends i had when i was 15 because she knows their mums yeah you know i mean so like it's just that except but can't go out with them because i don't know them and i know their mum and i know they're nice all that kind of stuff is that loss of control i think is that the issue isn't it for parents when they're on the internet well exactly i mean and one of the um you know this like year that we've lived through it accelerated a lot of the aspect the virtual aspects of the human experience like the family

life because we couldn't mix socially so the grown-ups were on zoom calls either for work or doing zoom quizzes or zoom cocktail parties and the kids were gaming for a while they're like god they're on their they're on their devices a lot. And then I realized that's the only interaction they have. If you're going to chat in your lesson as you would normally at school, the homeschooling version is you've got your phone next to you and you're going like, this is boring, or I can't do this. Can you help me on the math stuff? Or gaming, and they've got headsets on it. I don't know about you, but my experience of 2020 and 2021, wasn't just that we were going through a pandemic.

It was almost like the future got accelerated. Yeah. And it was the weirdness of virality, not in the literal sense of germs or whatever they are viruses, but in the, in the sort of virtual sense of, wow, we're all kind of, you know, we've got this new app that took off called TikTok, which has the most aggressive data harvesting algorithm of any of the social media platforms. And they're profiling us. And, you know, and I don't mean to sound like a techno kind of paranoid kind of mentalist. But, you know, it's quite evidently our lives are being changed and we're experiencing the world in a different way. our lives are being changed and we're experiencing the world in a different way and there are concerns that go along with that and we don't quite know what any of it means and parts of it

are positive because we can still communicate and other parts of it feel less positive because we're aware that um slightly sinister data corporations are getting an enormous amount of info on us do you have rules with your kids on what they can do and can't do like it would be nice wouldn't it i mean the rules are pretty relaxed in our house i mean the the and and actually we've tried to pull it back a bit but it was it was a bit like well we're in the middle of a kind of world-altering pandemic yeah so the fact that they're on their phones a lot or that you know the little guy the five-year-old's up and goes straight to his iPad. Like in the normal world, I'd be like, no iPad until after breakfast.

Like slightly limp rules like that. You know, like if you want to watch YouTube, you've got to at least put some socks on. Do you know what I mean? You can't have that until they've had German toast. Yeah, meaning, kind of meaning. Why do you have to wear socks to watch YouTube? This doesn't make any sense.

You know, some big leaf that some authority has maintained. But actually, the rules are pretty much just designed to maintain some illusion of control. But at the end of the day, we don't have many rules. We have screens during the week. Some families are like, we don't have many rules not really like we have screens during the week you know some families like we don't have screens you're there and even screens i mean i'm sort of come on why don't you watch a bit of tv like put your iphone down and watch a bit you know like in our in my day yeah it was like put the tv yes twitch the tv off and um and read a book now

watching the tv feels like the educational option. You know that? You've got a DVD. Why don't you watch a DVD? Yeah. Come on. Yeah, there's a point in the evening where they're supposed to stop gaming. And I know.

What time's that? It's about 11 o'clock. The little one goes up about 8 o'clock. I know. 11 o'clock Yeah, 11pm That doesn't sound good, does it? It'll be the pedo going

Come on kids, I've got work in the morning Give me a chance, I'm knackered here But the point being As long as they've done their homework And as long as they are You know, basically doing We have dinner together we you know we sit down and have a meal together uh you know they clear their plates those are a

few of the benchmarks do you know what i mean in terms of some level of civility that we try and maintain i do i do find though with the gaming there because i experienced when i played war zone which is basically you log on to this game and it's sort of like a army game but you you you text your friends and go oh go on at eight and then you're playing the game but really i'm just enjoying the chat and my friends so i think gaming used to be like oh it's not very sociable but actually it's more sociable than them just sitting on the sofa on their phone that's the point yeah they're sat there chatting but because they're in front of a screen on a computer it's the same as when i used to go down to the local park and sit in a circle of mates chatting chatting shit and

then someone would get bottle of cider or whatever it was that they did run in that park but you are essentially socializing but because i think the older generation like you know you're not they're playing a game but you're not you are chatting with friends it's just it's just like i say it's like the middle of this mad revolution better for them than when i used to sit alone and play championship manager for 12 hours on my own in my bedroom yes that's what's what I'm saying. But what were 12 hours? That would be. Thank you for that, Rob. I think that's, that's the whole point, isn't it? It's a different paradigm. It's not just watching open university for three hours as I did over

morning, you know, when I had woken up and my parents were still asleep and I had nothing to do. It's not mind numbing and solipsistic. It's actually, as you say, it's social and they're interactive and they're like, they make appointments with their friends. And oftentimes I realize when I say like, right, time to get off. And they're really upset. It's because they've made an appointment with someone who's expecting them to turn up. And so I'm like, why is he, there's so much rage, like, come on. And you try and lay, lay the law down. And actually what you don't appreciate

is there's much more going on to do with uh that you know the peer group and what they're up to my my my my my sort of nuclear option which i have only done once i think because some of their gaming they do and also they only go on at one at a time but so we got one machine like they're like well we want to get two playstations i said, there's a hard no on that because that's one of the few ways we can. So they figure out how to take turns. And as a result, there has to be some element of restraint because they can't both be on it at the same time. I'll give you two more years max before you get another one.

Yeah, maybe. We'll see. We'll all be in the metaverse. We'll have about two more years. Can you imagine? We'll be just playing with chips in our brains? Oh God. We'll get it. I'll have like, dad, I want to download the PlayStation chip into my, my neuro circuits, right? I want to get a new neuro circuit. Anyway,

that's what Elon Musk is saying is going to happen. Anyway, the point is that one of them was being a little bit cheeky and he went off in a strop and I said, no, you're not going back on the gaming that they do. There's a, there's a studio at the bottom of the garden that we got built. It was supposed to be for me and my wife to work in and then became the gaming gaming zone. And what I discovered was one day with a delight, I looked at the fuse box in it and it said garden studio on one of the switches. And I realized that I had control over all the electric

and I said you're coming back young man you're not doing any and he said he said stop me or something like that and I went back and I said to Nancy my wife I said you know there's a switch I can turn off and she said don't do it so give him a chance I said give him a warning so I went down you're going to come off there I'm telling you you know and he's like you know whatever he refused and so on one occasion i flipped the switch and it was nothing i can't i can't imagine anything more satisfying to see him down there on his little joystick through the french windows and then suddenly it went dark and i just saw a little silhouette of someone trying to figure out like like the incomprehension and then the screen, his screen had gone. With the level of,

I felt like Sauron, do you know what I mean? Sort of being able to just, I can just eliminate people just with a flick of a switch anyway. And after that, they knew, they knew that I had the power. So I happen not to do it.

What was his reaction to that? Was he, was he angry? Was he quite actually respecting the hustle of you finding the fuse switch? Because that, you've got a lot, when you're annoyed but you've got to go, to be fair,

Yeah, it was rage and respect. There was some part of it that was like, fine, it was like a little bit, okay, I get that,

check mates. Amazing. Oh, that was a bit like mums in the 90s could turn the internet off by picking up the landline that's very true isn't it they were more powerful than bezos in about 96 weren't they mums 90s mums that's a good throwback that was like the feeling when you went to make a phone call

and then you realize you heard and you realize oh i've just interrupted my dad's internet do you know what i mean yeah put it quickly down either maybe no one will notice in our house as well i swear if you picked up the phone but then you was upstairs you could listen to the conversation you could you could so you could and then your mom would shout you when your friend called and you'd get it on the upstairs phone and then you'd wait and you'd go can you put down the downstairs phone but like you didn't want to listen in on your phone conversations. You were saying that that was the badger monitor

and that was new. You knew he'd made it when you were a Stuart Lee. But then I was thinking about Joe Pasquale, he did quite a long routine. Do you remember about Joe Pasquale? I don't know that it was enormously helpful to Joe Pasquale. No, but I think it was a sign

that he'd become a household name and was successful in his field, you know? Do you know what I'm worried I'm going to find out about it? Is that it's just an aside. He just made a joke as an aside one night, and so I haven't even qualified. I've got the kind of... He's bigger in your head, Josh.

But he's... Actually, I haven't made it into a routine. In your head, what's he having a pop at you for? Oh, that's a good question, isn't it? Because that's saying, what are your biggest dislikes about your own persona and professional image? Yeah? Well, it might not be dislikes, because it might be, you know,

what's your perception of the part of Brand Widdicombe that he would have an issue with because it might be something you're fine with like you're for the sake of argument you're family friendly or i don't know insufficiently left or it might be observations because that's an easy stewart lee thing because he's done that before about people observing stuff i think it would be uh mainstream and mundane or that you're not disabled and you're on the last leg that's a good one if you were to write it tended to be disabled well people think josh is disabled it'd be like you know the guy the one that hangs around with the two disabled guys you know that guy that guy he's got that he's got

that annoying voice that goes like this that guy everyone's got the thing that they think other people know about them that they're worried you know like if it was jimmy carr it might be taxes right yes it might be a jimmy salvo reference do you have anything like that where oh you were caught so i don't think not to my knowledge no you're you're clean clean clean car yeah josh that's worse in a way because whatever it is hasn't come out yet okay he's stroking his chin all panicked look at this he's great he looks so worried right now always looks panicked and he's jiggling in his chair i'm not jiggling in my chair yeah i'm not rubbing his hands together leaning back look at this you'd have a field day on big brother's little brother all these tails they'll get the body language expert on you see josh they struck his chin

do you do you worry about the way people perceive you? Of course. I mean, the other one, I did an interview for the podcast about John Ronson. And by the way, both of these are referenced in my book. I talk about, it's not just family life. I talk about starting my podcast grounded in my book, through the keyhole, because it was one of the ways

I stayed busy during lockdown. I sort of reinvented myself as a podcaster. Constantly, you and John Ronson have had this kind of relationship. Is it beef? You've got beef with Ronson? It was a very Biggie and Tupac kind of situation. Oh, I love it. I love a posh, posh boy beef. Was it a right smile? Roll of the eyes? I tried to. I wanted

to gat him. I've heard it's Suge Knight that set you against each other, actually. It wasn't actually either of your fault. It was Suge Knight who was the real problem. He was stirring us up. I wonder who the Suge Knight is in this scenario. So what happened? Because I don't know anything about this.

What's the beef? If you know, he's a terrific writer who wrote the psychopath test. And then going back to the, even the early nineties, before I was ever on TV, he had a series called the Ronson mission and he was a columnist for timeout. And he was, it's a brilliant comic journalist who would write about quirky subjects like sort of sex workers or, or, you know, swingers, um, religious cults. So the sorts of terrain that I later was known for covering.

And so his series, The Run to Mission, it was a great series, but it wasn't especially widely viewed. And when I popped up, I think he felt, well, he did feel, because he said that, well, the quote he gave, he said, I felt a bit like the pixies must have felt after Nirvana came along, which I think is an interesting musical reference because it's actually not insulting to me. There's a bit in his book, Them. I don't know if you've read his book.

I've read that. I've read all John's books. And so he's being followed in a car outside the Bilderberg group. And he calls the police to say I'm being followed. And they say, what do you do? And he says, I'm a journalist. I write these these stories and this is a point he's being followed and the police say and he says i write stories about like that kind of things he does and the police say oh like louis theroux yeah love it this is great yeah and he's like well no i was originally the one that did it

he wanted ruby wax comes out the passenger seat actually, I think you'll find I've done interviews as well. Fucking hell. It's like no one's ever... It's like this rivalry. It's like no one's ever asked anyone anything about themselves before on telly. Yeah. Parkinson pops up. Well, I actually used to do it and sat down.

Did you ever end up... Because you're good friends now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we were always... Well, so before... Actually, I had met him at that point. ever end up because you're good friends now yeah yeah and we were always well so before i actually had met him at that point uh and and it was more or less through the grapevine through mutual friends that i heard oh john's you know he's got you know he's having a bit of angst over

the the fact that you've kind of you're doing a more successful version of what he was doing and i was such a big fan of John yeah I suppose I thought um I what did I think I thought well that's a big compliment like the idea that yeah yeah you know he was one of the when I was coming up when I saw the Ronson mission he was one of those people thought oh I really love that I wonder if I should write him a letter and let him know I never did you know like very you know yeah it doesn't often have anything i like that so much i'm so intrigued by that i find that so different i might drop that personal line nah maybe not but anyway i thought about it and so when i when i heard that he he really enjoyed the series to the point of having a kind of existential crisis over it i thought well that's you know that's about the

highest compliment you know i've caused him a mini breakdown that's what you want there's no higher compliment than that really yeah and then later we met and we talked about it and then he did more his writing you know he's been he's been into ever upward gradient of success with his writing he moved to america and so when i interviewed him for the podcast and actually i you know his books are so terrific and then when i um would read them i'd get a pang of, of, of, of, of, of professional envy of feeling like, wow, he's such a terrific writer. And then he sells books by the shed load and then he's in America and America's buying all his books. And suddenly it felt a bit like role reversal.

Like I was like, oh, Ronson, he's really successful in America, you know, where, where I, I've got, you know, I guess a pleasingly kind of selective appreciation among my fan base. Like I, I don't know when in America really knows who I am. And so when we talked, I said to John, he said like, you know, I'm very relaxed now about you. You know, it was really painful. I'm trying not to do an offensive John Ronson. I've been doing doing pretty pretty bad job of that because i think he said back in the day like i used to find it painful that you know and

but now i'm really relaxed and i was basically saying like yeah yeah i find it a bit more painful now john to be honest it's nice to be honest about it with each other though because that's when if you don't talk about it i think that's a bit of a hangover from like you know 25 years ago when you started doing all these shows you you really you got on the radio or on BBC and one person sort of did it. So it was Ruby Waxman, they knew and then Ronson didn't get the call. And then it was like, well, what's my career? It's all over now. I can't.

That's been taken. But I think Mock the Week was like that with comedians. But now there's so many avenues. You can do podcasts. You can do YouTube, TikTok, Instagram and ways to get an audience and be found and stuff. I think now there's a lot less of that rivalry amongst our generation coming through, I think, on telly. Josh, do you think that's true? Do you know what always happens? And I'm sure is you'll be in an interview and someone will go, God, you know, but it's really horrible.

god but you know but it's really horrible you and your peers you know you must all hate each other and you're jumping all over each other and not like on each other's lines and what the week and stuff and i think like all of our generation there's something weirdly we're all much more matey than i think people would ever yeah like to think in a way do you know what i mean there's very little kind of beef but all these things can also coexist is the other thing that you can, you can love someone. And also, you know, there's, you know, if I have one sort of thing, it's almost I feel there's a misapprehension about the nature of human psychology.

It's the idea that our motivations and our feelings are also unitary. Like, Oh, you feel either profound love or you feel profound hate, and there's nothing intermixed or alloyed about it. Oh, totally. And actually, to this day, like, there's people who I care very much about who at the same time, if I saw them get an incredibly good review that said, actually, you know, this person's a genius and there's no one alive today who's going to achieve it, there's some little part of me that would feel a pang, you know, this person's a genius and there's no one alive today who's going to achieve it.

There's some little part of me that would feel a pang, you know. Oh, totally. I love James Acaster. He's one of my oldest friends. But if I see another suggested Instagram of a fucking James Acaster meme, I would be delighted. Because it's the bane of my life.

Yeah. He hates it as well. He quit Instagram. He doesn't even have to see him so we don't need to put these up he's not even here anymore what about you and rob to josh and rob you work together right sometimes it's the ones that you are actually married to professionally that you feel like this odd little well why did you get the call and i didn't have you ever talked about well no so well we've um we i don't think so really me and josh haven't experienced that but for with on with romesh and stuff well he was at the baftas

and we were nominated for a show together and he was nominated for ranga nation in the same category and then he was also nominated for best entertainment performance like the sort of one with it was like bradley walsh and a few adam hills and a few other people claudia winkerman and stuff like that and uh and i was sat next to him and i was like and he'd yeah and i was he'd why he'd won it for best performance and i was like oh i wonder how i'm gonna feel because you never know how you feel but i was so relieved that i was just like so excited for him and so happy and then he came and sat back down again and then the next one i was and the next will come up and it was for that one for us and the one even i went oh and i in my brain went hang on at one point here he could win best performance without me and then win without me

again in an award up against it i went this is this should be nightmare fuel but i'm actually i was like this this on paper is like a an anxiety dream but i sat and then i think big nasty one anyway but i genuinely was like that was one of, my favorite nights in my career that I could be at an award thing like that and be so happy for a mate and not really be bothered where other people there. And that honestly was almost better feeling actually than winning it because it was like, you have those thoughts of how you feel if that happens,

but I was just generally so buzzing for him. And you can see the reaction of it. It was a genuine like, Oh yeah, fucking well done mate. Cause you know, it's nice for those awards and things like that. But ultimately, it don't really matter. And you're like, maybe I'm a nice person.

Yeah, exactly. Do you know what? Because I don't like going to those things. I find them really oppressive. And it's why I used to hate Edinburgh, because it makes you in competition with people that you don't want to be in competition with. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. We weren't nominated this year for Last Leg for the first time in five years. Yeah. We've never won. We've never won. He loves it of all, Josh. Do you know what?

I was so relieved when we weren't nominated because I thought I don't have to go through that experience of going again. Well, yeah, but then maybe the experience shouldn't matter so much. No know but that's because for me i get i love i love doing robin romesh right i love doing robin romesh i get to spend time with my mate all day and making a show i really really love if we win that bafta that's not going to make my day-to-day enjoyment of that show better or worse it's good so if day-to-day i'm enjoying the show that's the main thing all

the other stuff's a bit irrelevant really would would you take winning a BAFTA every year but hating filming the show no that's my not that's my worst nightmare yeah to be tracked to that something that's really successful that you hate i might as well just stayed working in my old jobs if that's the case but you can see how it traps people that's the thing though because i'm a bit older and and actually um you've in a weird, you find when you get older, you care slightly more. And I don't know why that would be the case. Really?

That's my experience. So I think I care much less. Like, I really cared about stuff when I was, like, in Edinburgh, it really destroyed me. Like, it became a really, like, that first year when you could be nominated for newcomer. It was, like, a horrible thing for the whole month. That Edinburgh, my first Edinburgh,

I got a spot on the end of my nose on the first day. That was so bad. It started getting reviewed itself, didn't it? It got nominated without me. It was so bad. I had to get makeup put on it by the person who was producing the show every day. And the spot stayed for the whole of Edinburgh and then went 24 hours after Edinburgh.

Really? Yeah. But now I really don't feel... I feel like John Ronson when he's being interviewed by you, Louis. I feel much more laid back about the whole thing. Well, that's where you want to be, really, isn't it? So why do you think you care more now, Louis? Because on paper, I don't think there's anything else

you can really achieve like you look like an all-round success in that traditional sense i think what happened was i won two baftas when i was quite young and and the first one yeah this is going back 20 years like 2000 2001 something like that and um and even and the second one i was in a weird place at the time so i just felt very blank about it and then what And then over the next sort of 15 years, 20 years, I made some amazing programs. I mean, obviously I'm biased, but, you know, and went, you know, programs in San Quentin Prison

and the Westboro Baptist Church. And then year on year, I might have got nominated a few times but never won and i think what happened was when i find i want to when i'm finding one another one i sort of thought actually i deserve this that sounds dreadful but you know the first two i thought like well this is a crap shoot who cares do you know what i mean yeah and it's a meaningless four ball more or less but then by the time you know when 20 years go by and you've you've made a ton of programs i sort of thought well why not actually this isn't going to happen may never happen again it hasn't happened for 20 years i might i always try to make a conscious decision to make it mean something you know even if it's arbitrary you know which to a great extent those things are

why not allow it to count for something yeah does that make sense no No, I definitely think you shouldn't be, they mean nothing. It's a nice thing to win. It's like, oh, a pat on the back, that's nice. And it helps in your career and getting commissions and that kind of stuff. So you have to accept that it's worth something. That's the other part. But, you know, here's the other thing. It's what you realise is it means something to other people.

Yes. And it's odd, isn't it? I don't quite know what to make of this, but it's that feeling of when you realize something means something, it's like the first time you realize people care about ratings when you're in TV, like it's an odd thing. The first time we have a TV show and people are going like second one built second one was up to 1.5 and you're like, what, sorry, what does that mean?

That's good. You're growing. And then the third one, it's up to three, 3 million. And that's really good. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then, and then the one day when they, one day when they come in happened on my second series where they're like yeah and you're like what what is it yeah well no it doesn't matter you're like well no what is it well the ratings are in yeah and 1.2 i'm like well that doesn't sound too bad yeah it is not really it's not brilliant and then and then you're like oh my god and then you're being it's encoded in you from there on like must care about ratings and then you find yourself checking them and then it becomes almost a mini obsession because you realize this is more than reviews more than anecdotal feedback this is the barometer by which everything is

judged and the same thing with the with the BAFTA he's like, oh, sorry about the BAFTA. Yeah. You're like, oh, it's fine. You know, Ronson deserved it or whatever. Movie wax. It was her year. But actually, then the fifth person is like, oh, it's too bad about the BAFTA. And you're like, yeah, you start to feel it. Do you know what I mean? You have to ignore it.

With you and Romesh, we're like, oh, shame about Romesh. Oh, you must feel really shitty about that. And you're like, no, I'm fine. And then when they keep saying, I used to to like this is a bit of a jump but i used to live in harleston and i i loved it and you know we had a great big house and and i didn't realize that it had a bit of a sort of a connotation of being sort of a bit rough and ready and i found myself at parties they said where do you live it's 11'd say, Levin, Harlesden. And then their face would like fall. Like, oh. I would be like, oh, I'm sorry. Like I just said, my gran's got cancer or something.

Like, oh, dear. Sorry about that. And you find yourself affected. Like you find other people's value judgments somehow are contagious, right? As much as you might want to resist it. I think you have to work on a vaccine internally, don't you, to sort of be oblivious. There we go.

Maybe that's the self-help book we need to write. Well, the thing I can say about the BAFTAs, the next time you're worried about the BAFTAs, just remember they gave Ralph Harris one. So, you know, do you really want to be part of that, alumni? Well, exactly. Probably more than one. Did he only get one?

I don't know. I've definitely seen a photo of him holding a BAFTA up. What did he win a BAFTA for? Animal Hospital? Oh, they gave him the fellowship. They've stripped him. Oh, is that what he got? The fellowship.

Well, Jimmy Savile got a knighthood, right? Yeah, he did. Have they stripped him of that? Well, I don't know if you can strip someone who's already died of a knighthood, can you? I don't know. They'll find the grave and do the little odd thing, but in reverse. Just to take it back. Left to right instead of right to left.

Now would. How often do you think about Jimmy Savile? Do you think about him daily? Do you know what? I've kept a diary of the last 18 months and it's in book form. It's called The Rue, The Keyhole. Diaries of a grounded documentary maker you can buy it off amazon is also uh there's an audio book where is it in the

charts how many are sold how you feeling about that it's in top five on audible how you feeling about that someone above you hey how's that getting you read so and i mention it because jimmy saville is in it you get a a sense of the extent to which it comes up, which is to say not daily. It's not at the forefront of my mind, but it's not uncommon. So, for example, if I'm being interviewed for a new TV series, it will almost always get mentioned, and it will be, was Jimmy Savile your biggest failure?

That was one question I was asked. And then there's a story in the book where I talk about going through the park on a walk, on a ramble with the kids and my wife. And a woman says, I have to tell you, you're absolutely fantastic. Keep doing what you do. You are wonderful. And she wanders off. And I say to my wife, isn't that nice?

That's the great thing. Everyone should have that. Imagine if all people had random strangers coming up and saying, you are wonderful. The place would be so full of joy. So then we walk a bit further down the park and there's a guy sitting on a bench with an old bicycle. And he looks over, he says, how about Jimmy then? And I thought, and I think, keep walking, keep walking. And as I dissipate, and I thought, and he goes, yeah, I go, all right. Yep. And I keep walking. He goes like, all right yep and i keep walking he goes like he's gonna haunt you oh god and and then and i said to my wife well so it kind of balances out yeah you're wonderful but you'll be haunted by jimmy samuel yeah well i think what's more annoying is that people see you as the only

person that ever interviewed him gave him a job or knew about what he was doing you didn't know he was doing but the only person ever met him in his whole career which is very unfair just because you're a victim of your own success of that big show but yeah no you shouldn't that shouldn't haunt you should he completely forget about that thank you for that one final question we've gone off a bit of off topic with parenting i think it's been a brilliant episode so that's that's that's fine um the question is is there one thing your partner does, parenting, that annoys you a bit? Yes. Yep, go on. Well, no, not one. Straight off the bat.

Many, many. Okay. Well, since we're in the season of holiday goodwill, one of the things she does is she buys the kids Advent calendars. I'm fine with that. Yep. Advent calendars with chocolates in them. And then for the whole of December, at least until the Christmas day, it's considered acceptable to have chocolates at breakfast. And for me, I'm old fashioned that

way. Like I just sort of think, you know, I love chocolate, but you don't have chocolate at breakfast. And it feels like all bets are off. Suddenly we're in savagery. Do you know what I mean? Like, Oh, I'm just going to have chocolates. Meals don't matter. Forget cereal. So I don't make a big thing out of it, but I kind of exude a sort of wary sense of judgment when those advent calendars come out. Can I suggest other advent calendars you can get?

They do Playmobil ones and Lego ones where they get little things to build and then they do that in the morning rather than they're quite good. Or just a lovely picture of a shepherd. I used to be excited about... You're so old, Josh. The door, you know, the cardboard door is slightly bigger. Oh, the picture's bigger on this one. Like, I would get a thrill out of opening the little...

Right out of the little door and seeing a... Oh, it's a robin. Yeah, you can't have that. That was before Google image search. Is that people too busy playing computer games against strangers to enjoy a robin? Yeah, strangers across the world with the TV watching me. I just want a little picture of a reef and then I'll walk to school.

What is wrong with a picture of a donkey with a pregnant woman on it? Really? Is there something wrong with that? Thank you very much, Louis. The book, Louis Theroux, Theroux the Keyhole. Loved it. Theroux the Keyhole.

We've plugged that plenty. Good luck with everything. Good luck in the podcast charts. Keep doing what you do. See you later. Cheers, mate. Bye. We've plugged that plenty. Good luck with everything. Good luck in the podcast charts. Keep doing what you do. See you later. Cheers, mate. Bye. Bye-bye-bye.

Louis Faroo. Love that. I love Louis Faroo. I could just listen to him forever. He's great, isn't he? And what you don't get when you watch his documentaries, obviously, is how self-analytical he is. Do you know what I mean?

He really beats himself, not beats himself up, but he really thinks about what he's thinking and what he's going through and what his emotions are and stuff like that like you talk to him about his family and he's properly thinking about is like his emotional responses to it and stuff he's like he's very self-analytical in a way that makes you feel better about your own family torment should we say well yeah so are you saying though that it makes you feel better about the way you torment yourself about your family because some of your respect does it or are you saying that's yeah and rather than that's what you should be doing my argument would be you shouldn't need to torment yourself that much yeah but easily

through and it's fine you know if i'm honest with you rob that isn't an option for me i'm going to torment myself so i so i might have got to find ways around it. I can't solve that. That's happening. My argument was it's a shame that someone so intelligent does torment himself that much because he's doing such a good job. Both of you. However, you're saying, actually, it's fine to self-torment

because someone I respect does. Do you know what, Rob? You've got to fight the battles you're given. And I know what I can change. I can't change the fact that every day I torment myself from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep. And when you're crying on your exercise bike having a panic attack, you're thinking,

Louis Farouk probably does this. So it's fine. Exactly. So that's good. If it helps, it helps. Exactly. But no, I enjoyed that. We went off piste a little bit,

but I think it was really interesting. So thank you for listening that was Louis Farouk we told you we'd get big dogs leading up to Christmas exactly

and he wasn't even promoting anything Joshua they've all got books haven't they are we done too bad Louis Farouk got a book out

he didn't mention it how well have we done to bring a book out in such a crowded market Josh well done to you and thank you to our listeners because let's be honest and these are the hardcore now that they've listened to the end

of this because it's probably a long episode thank you so much for buying the book it's amazing thank you thank you i'm really but also i would say as well though i have looked at the figures and how many people listen to this on a weekly basis compared to the book sales and i would say probably about 10 of you bought the book so well done to you but the other 90 have a fucking look in the mirror. Put your hand in your pocket and buy our fucking books. Forget Louis Farouk. Buy our fucking books, right?

It's Christmas. It's Christmas. Buy it for someone, okay? Come on. No, I'm only joking. Have a good one. Buy it for Stuart Lee. All right, we'll see you on Tuesday.