Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S03 EP46: Martine McCutcheon

Episode Date: December 17, 2021

S03 EP46: Martine McCutcheon Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant actress and singer - Martine McCutcheon. Enjoy! Thanks to everyone who bought tickets for the live show in January - we sold in less than 15 minutes! If you want to be first in line for any potential future live dates, merchandise, and any additional show info then sign up to the mailing list here; parentinghellpodcast.mailchimpsites.com Thanks - Rob and Josh xxx If you want to get in touch with the show here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] TWITTER: @parenting_hell INSTAGRAM: @parentinghell A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

See yourself buying a home one day? Do future you a favor. Open a Questrade First Home Savings Account and help that future come faster. The FHSA is a tax-free account where all your investment gains are yours to keep and put towards your first home. With Questrade, you can open an FHSA online. No bank appointment needed. It's easy and only takes a few minutes. The sooner you get started, the more time your down payment has to grow. Open an account today at questrade.com. Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willicombe. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like

to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. a little tricky. So to make ourselves and hopefully you feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping or hopefully how they're not coping and we'll also be hearing from you the listener with your tips advice and of, tales of parenting woe. Because, let's be honest, there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing. Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hell with... Bryn Mawr. Can you say Rob Beckett?

Can you say Josh Whittacombe Josh Whittacombe Very good There we go That is Very efficient there

Emily White Was that from Soviet Russia Well We've got a location For this one Rob Okay Let me read out

The email first Okay Or do you want to guess First because you're Closest Hertfordshire I think you might be Correct

No way. It's Harrow. Where the fuck's Harrow? Oh, Harrow's not far. That's North London, isn't it, Harrow? It's what used to be Middlesex, but it's now Greater London. Oh, there we go.

Harrow, Middlesex, technically London, Harrow. Oh, but I'll give you that. I'll give you that. It's not far from Hertfordshire. It's really close to Hertfordshire. Very good. Very good.

Do send in your locations with them. This is literally the best podcast ever I'd listen from the start and you certainly keep me chipper on my commute if only you made daily ones imagine you had me belly laughing in the car at the laddie special today and it reminded me to send you this this is our son Bryn who turned two last week he's been in training for the intro for a good few months and we reckon he's just about good enough now. Keep up the great work. I haven't yet bought your books. It's on the list.

Phew. Come on. Come on. There's a water stones in Harrow. You know, we always go like, oh yeah, you shouldn't have too many to-do lists. Just be in the moment. Just don't bog yourself down with stuff.

Sometimes you've got to get your fucking list done. Buy those books. You've got to get it done. Great Christmas presents. Rob Beckett class act and josh willicombs what two moments twice today i didn't hear what you said there i said josh willicombs one as a joke i knew it was the neighbor's one with the you and the telly anyway how are you josh got a christmas tree oh yeah very exciting he's too big rob if you sit on one end of the sofa you can't see the tv oh no that's that's how big we're talking what what height did you go it's an

eight footer eight foot got victorian victorian house in it big ceilings oh do you want me to send you a picture oh yeah why not yeah i want to put a shout out for my pictures as well on this show yeah my um my daughter took a photo of me in my pants going into the bathroom yeah i put it on instagram uh and i'm and she took about my knowledge i don't know if you've got any of these photos on your phone your daughters have taken no i haven't so they grab our phones and put the camera on and take photos of us without unknowing us knowing and i'm sure other people do it so if anyone's got any photos that their kids

have taken them and they're funny or in uncompromising positions please send them in feel free to blur out certain things or put an emoji on it um but um i was in pants luckily but yeah and we'll share them on our instagram page if anyone's got i want i would like quite like a sort of gallery of photos of parents taken by children without permission. That's really nice. Not the other way round. Not the other way round. I'll make that very clear. These are photos of adults taken by children without permission. That's what we're after.

Josh, can I see your Christmas tree? Yeah, I haven't got a photo. Have you not sent it? I haven't got a photo. I thought I'd taken a photo. Okay, you haven't got a photo. Okay, that's fine. That's good.

So that's the end of that bit. So was it like green till? It's green. It's eight foot. Yeah. Basically, when you're watching TV through the leaves, you feel a bit like you're a peeping Tom. So we made an error with the delivery of it, Rob.

Oh, right. So it's just down the road, probably about 100 yards, 200 yards, but it was big. So I thought I can't carry this on my own. So they said we can deliver it. Yeah. 20 quid, extra, fine.

20 quid to get delivered from the park. Yeah. You get so screwed over where you live because they just see media elite. The window, 3pm till 10pm. That's too big a window. It's madness. Do you know when you don't want a tree, Rob?

20 past nine. That's when it arrived six hours away oh big boy so the delivery from the park do they put it into your tree holder thing at home no that's an extra tenner i'm not i'm not made of money so 20 quid to the door inside inside they bring it in in the hallway yeah and then it's left on the floor no they stood it up oh yeah it is on the floor though it's not yeah yeah and then it was it was an actual 10 more pounds to put it in the holster i can put it in the holster the holster i can put it in the holster can you yeah it's one of my favorite bits of christmas it makes me feel like a real man okay so you like that bit all right yeah i like that bit wouldn't carrying it from the apartment you feel like a real man that would Christmas. It makes me feel like a real man. Okay, so you like that bit. All right. Yeah, I like that bit. Wouldn't carrying it from the park make you feel like a real man? That would...

No, it would make me feel like a complete weed because I'd fail. I reckon you should spend 20 quid on a little fold-up trolley so that next year you can walk down the park with it. I will look like an absolute plonker. You'll look like a fucking legend. Anyway, it was very disappointing. i'm not going to get it delivered next year because it's a great tree i love those guys they give me a good tree every year he gave me a free little tree for my daughter's bedroom oh that's nice the delivery

company is an independent company oh separate from the tree people what i think has happened rob yeah i was basically like we're either gonna get get this tree because we live so near to the place. We're either going to get this at ten past three or ten to ten because we're the first or the last. Also is what I could imagine that you could actually, from your window,

see the tree that's about to be delivered. Yeah, what, heading in the wrong direction? Yeah. Whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, don't load it first. Load it last. Shouting from the window. You what, heading in the wrong direction? Yeah. Whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, don't load it first. Load it last. Shouting from the window.

You what, mate? That's my tree I'm getting delivered. What, today? Yeah, I'm only little. I mean, it's just annoying. It's too late at night. It's too late at night waiting for a tree. I'm getting very Christmassy now, though.

I'm loving it. Yeah? Yeah. It's exciting, isn't it? It's great, isn't it? The nativity'm getting very Christmassy now, though. I'm loving it. Yeah? Yeah. It's exciting, isn't it? It's great, isn't it? The nativity was so good, Josh. Oh, yeah. She was Mary.

Oh, yeah. Did she smash it? Do you know what? There were other girls in the... I didn't know that that preschool has got two classes. Oh, yeah. I thought it was one class, but there's two classes. There are a couple of girls in the other class.

So what they did was, for the young ones, which I think is really good, they basically just got them to sing loads of different songs rather than trying to do any sort of acting because it's so hard it's too hard to remember your lines and too scary but they sung loads of songs it was all the kids were brilliant to be fair they was all loving it and they made sure that even though you know there's all that talk right who's pardon and don't worry about that um yeah i did cry i cried at the end but like they every kid had their own little moment and they had their own little song together as a group so it wasn't like yeah two people did it and loads of people sat in the back so it was really good she sang really loudly and she was smiling and it was brilliant and um and then they played at the end

they just i played like a little um this is what got me you made me cry they turned the lights off and all the kids looked at the screen and they showed a video of photos of all the kids all this year playing and like you know cutting out and doing stuff at the school set to like one of them really sad songs like uh it all died yeah yeah that's really why it made me sad but it was like a no they use a christmas cover song you know like a kind of john lewis style yeah yeah john lewis but it was a bit like people we they used a Christmas cover song, you know, from an advert. Like a kind of John Lewis style song. Yeah, yeah, a John Lewis style song. But it was a bit like...

But it was a bit like people we've lost this year. The BAFTAs, yeah. So it was... But it wasn't. And then all the kids were there. So that's what made it less bleak. All the kids were there. So you knew they were there.

So all the kids were there. And they were all going, oh, look, it's me, and pointing to each other. And it was so Christmassy and lovely. I did cry, yes, and I had a mask on. And then I cried. And then... But also also as well it's been so horrible and just seeing kids be kids and sing together and stand together and not being

separated or being forced to wear masks and all that shit it was just so lovely and so warm and yeah so i had a little tear and then the teacher at the end said you cried i went yep but yeah it was brilliant i just it was one real highlight because obviously we missed my eldest daughter's proper nativity i I saw her Christmas performance but she wasn't in reception anymore so it's only reception really they're doing. Right, yeah, yeah.

But that was so cute and so little. So yeah, it was really well done for a preschool to be fair. So yeah, it was brilliant. Absolutely loved it.

So that was great. I mean, very high spirits this week. Good, good. Nearly finished work for Christmas and yeah, we're going to try and keep pumping out episodes

over Christmas when and where we can, aren't we, Josh? Yeah, we'll be pumping over Christmas. That's what I do need to say, this, right? I love my kids dearly, and I love it when it's their birthdays, but two kids' birthdays in December is a fucking nightmare. So tell you what, when it gets to March, put your dick away.

It's so expensive, it's a logistical nightmare. When we get to March, we do need to alert people during the podcast, each episode during March. Stop shag during march stop shagging stop shagging yeah so okay that you know like when they do like veganuary where it's a month for movember where that month's all about prostate cancer and growing a moustache this is the stop shagging month of march and we i think we should make a big thing about it and a big promo campaign we'll be on lorraine and go look guys i'll be straight down the barrel stop fucking each other do you want to take that positivity into our Christmas guest oh yes this is our Christmas guest guys and there's a Christmas connection isn't there what's

the Christmas connection the greatest Christmas film of all time according to some people yes she was in elf it is the wonderful Martine McC mccutchen she died on christmas day as well tiffany did tiffany you can't break news like that without being clear yeah yeah sorry sorry i've got to be clear on that when she was tiffany she died on christmas day when she was tiffany and eastender she died on christmas day and she was in love actually with hugh grant and she is our christmas gift to you martyutcheon, thank you very much for joining us. We're very excited about this.

Big fans of yours, Martine, on screen, in music and as a person. Thank you. What a lovely, lovely thing to say. Yeah. I don't think I've ever met you,

have I, Martine? Correct me if I'm wrong. No, I've never met you, John. I think you're amazing as well. We've got the mutual appreciation society. Oh, thank you. And you, Rob. And you, Rob. And you, John. I think you're amazing as well. We've got the mutual appreciation society. Oh, thank you. And you, Rob.

And you, Rob. And you, Rob. Yeah, thanks. Okay, sure. And Rob, Rob, I like you. No, but what I'd say is in this industry, a lot of the time you go, oh, my God, it's such an honour to interview you because you're such an amazing whatever.

And that is true about you. But also on top of that, you are a nice person. And there's not always a case, is it, it Martine? No it's not always a case it does our industry does attract let's say a certain kind of beast sometimes and it is nice when you do genuinely think I genuinely get on with that person or I genuinely know I would be mates with that person? Yes, exactly. We're going to start the interview by all naming the top five people we hate. You start, Martine.

Let's end our careers right now. Martine, can you let the listeners know about your set-up at home? You've got one son, is that correct? I've got one son, Rafferty. He's six years old. I'm married to Jack McManus a fellow Kent boy as you know and we've got two dogs, Harry and Fred

two dogs, Harry and Fred all boys and I kind of like it I kind of like it that way because I was brought up with four boys, my mum's best friend Pam, when I was brought up in Dalston East London, she had four boys and

I am a girl's girl for sure. And I am a woman's woman for sure. But I do find the company of men a lot simpler. Really? Okay. Even dog men? Yeah, even dog men. It's easier.

It's just easier. I don't mean simple in the fact that you guys are simple. I think that's half true. I took it that way. Yeah. I don't mean simple in the fact that you guys are simple. I think that's half true. I took it that way. Yeah. I'll be honest. I am simple. Do you know what?

I'm really leaning into it. As I'm getting older, I've got to that dad energy now. If you leave me on my own in a chair, I won't go to sleep, but I'll rest my eyes. I'll just sit back and do that. And then they'll go, you're asleep. I'm not. So men, I do think men are simple to a point.

I've seen Rob doing it in some interviews as well. You just sort of start an anecdote. You'll think this is a 90 second eye rest right here. I just love that. I'm leaning into it. Yeah, just it's, do you know what? I think sometimes there's too many options in life and it is a lot better just to sit there and do nothing

and just accept that's going to be your day. Well, I kind of, when I was in lockdown, you were my saviour. You must have seen my face. Well, I DMed you on Instagram a couple of times going, you are making me howl with laughter. You are making me feel less guilty about the fact that I am laying on the sofa in the same position and I've become so good at doing. Well, that's the thing, you can't put too much pressure on yourself.

And so talking about blokes being simpler, did you have siblings growing up then? Or did you just spend time with your mum's friends' kids? So basically, I didn't have a sibling until I was 15. So I was an only child in essence because on the weekends and in the evenings after school sometimes or Pam would take me to school with the boys I spent a lot of the time with the boys and like I say it was a different dynamic it was very rough and tumble you either mucked in or you didn't there was none of this like there wasn't so much bitchiness going on like it, it was just, I don't know,

they just got on with each other and they made the most of the moment and more spontaneous, I think. And I just, you know, you either had to muck in or you didn't survive. They'd just be clambering around and chucking action men at you. Well, is this a warning sign, though,

for when Rafferty starts dating, i'm assuming might be dating girls when the girl comes home to meet his mum and your little boy whoever he dates she says at this point i will of course embrace with open arm he or she i will embrace but i um i don't know i'd god i don't know. I don't know. God help him. We're from Dalston because everyone sees a good side of you, Marty, but you might have a bit of a, I can imagine, are you the disciplinarian in the house, would you say? Have you got that side where you can be a bit sterner?

Yeah. I mean, yeah, definitely. I think, you know, when you come from certain places, I think in our industry, people sort of see that as a real tough side of you, or they think you've got a feisty side, whereas for us, that's just normal. You have to hide it a bit, dampen it down.

People think, oh, that's a bit rude. Oh, I didn't think that was. I spent my whole career apologising for things that I still don't quite know what I've done wrong. Yeah, so, you know what I've done wrong. Yeah. So I, you know, I think, yeah, I probably am at the disciplinary. I think Jack puts his foot down when enough is enough and it's come to the very end.

I probably am. He said, mum, like I'm full of praise and full of love and full of affection. But then I'm also like, right, enough is enough. Yeah. And you do sell handbags out of your boots still, don't you? Knocked off handbags. I make that out of the boots, fake perfumes.

What would make you say enough's enough? What was the last time you said enough's enough? I think the last time I said enough was enough was just the lack of... I've told him a million times that if I get him something new, it's fine, but he has to put his other toys away. And he didn't, he didn't, he didn't. It was just like a car crash, car crash, car crash.

And on top of me having a long day filming something, I came in and I took my shoes off and I hurt myself so bad on this bit of Lego. And I swore and went, Mummy, you just said a bad word. And he's like, don't worry about my effing bad words. You've got to put these ties away. I'm hanging up.

And he's like, I think somebody needs time out. Oh, no. It's the worst. And I was like, oh, I've created a rod for my own back here. Yeah, because he's at that real back chatty stage at six. It's when they've got over the reception year at school and now they sort of think that they're the oldest kid in the world, don't they?

And they can read and write a bit. And has he got a little bit of a swagger from school? He does. He has his days where he's a little bit more vulnerable and less confident. But then other days, you know know i suppose like a lot of us where we feel we're invincible we can conquer the world and then other days where he's just sort of like oh no oh god that's the worst i say to him as well like to distract from it i'm like well who else was there like why did you only want to play with that person and he said well so I was so crew was playing in the sandpit and I hate the sandpit.

Stuffing your shoes. So that wasn't an option. And it's like a proper little bloke with these like. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's true. And he was kind of quite picky. And he also he's a bit like his mum that he wants to do what he wants to do. And he wants everybody to play the game he wants to do what he wants to do and he wants everybody to play the game he wants to play nobody loves him and i'm like no you've just got to learn to play their game as well it can't always be your way and i think as well as an only child it's good for him it's going to teach him it can't be your way or the highway rafferty like you've got to in the nicest sweetest

of ways you just don't know anything else yeah this is how it's got to be this is life yeah exactly i'm sorry one second michael can you hear lou and the dog in the background of this just so i know i can't okay cool okay cool no sorry lou what's happening we've got the cleaners in the house so lou's brought the dog lou do you want to come and show the dog too quickly before in the room and i was like trying to listen to martin and he started chewing a wire but sorry to distract but we're gonna oh look at that dog there's a dog I'll take him you take off they can't hear you so but if you can stop dropping like his treats and stuff would it be sorry if you just so she can't go in the house there's a cleaner in the house and she's not allowed in your shed so she's now sitting stood in the room in the hat in the office with me now oh okay I'm sorry I thought you're throwing

her out sorry she's trying to get him to go asleep, I think. But anyway, sorry. I just wanted to make sure he couldn't hear. Sorry, I think you're going to have... Because the dog's not sitting still. It'd be nice if the dog was sleeping, but he's playing. Sorry, Lou, you're going to have to go in the street. I mean, it is...

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news here, Lou, but... I now feel guilty. But, you know, the podcast was here before the... This is really awkward now. The podcast is bringing more into the house than the dog financially, isn't it, Rob? Look, Lou just needs to behave, Rob, like my husband. He's been really well behaved. Look, he's sitting in the...

There's a dog basket. Oh, look, Martin my husband. He's been really well behaved. Look. He's sitting in the car. There's a dog basket. Oh, look. He's eating his lunch. Oh, he's eating his lunch and your dogs are asleep. Are your dogs asleep or are they just in another room? They're in another room. Look, you can see.

Look, there's a little dog basket there. All right, there we go. Poor Lou's going outside now. Never have I felt so lonely. I'm just sat in a room on my own. I thought that's what you professionally did. See you, Lou. Sorry, mate's what you professionally did. Absolutely. OK. See you, Lou. Sorry, mate.

Have you ever done Parkinson? And this has happened, Marty. Nah. Lou's outside. Right, sorry about that. It was too distracting. You can't interview someone watching a dog nearly shit and eat wires, can you? It's impossible.

Sorry. We'll go back. We're talking to, about Rafferty at school. Well, let's talk about your dogs. Let's talk about your dogs.'s talk about your dogs how old are your dogs martine so harry is 11 and he's called harry after prince harry because he's got that lovely color hair like you a bit josh that kind of color okay and um freddy's named after freddy mercury he's his half brother all right and uh yeah and he's 10 okay um they're like american spaniels and they are absolutely delightful they were like my hairy sons before i had a baby did you find

having dogs before a kid helped having a because they are like a little baby they're not as difficult as a baby long term obviously but there is the same kind of commitment did you find it helped or or not yeah i asked i find the dogs harder to work than I do efforting. Oh, fuck. Yes. Do you know what, Martine? That is the best thing anyone's ever said, because Rob has just got a dog.

Yeah, it's true. And he said the words there. I know it gets easier, because I can hear him trying to convince himself. Shut up, John. We all heard him doing it, and you've just totally over... It's actually more difficult than a child mate

They never really grow up beyond a certain point Yeah Okay It's a constant two year old Fuck Fuck Anyway Okay let's not talk about dogs anymore

So what Does Rafferty play any sports? How's the birth? Does Rafferty play any sports? What a question I just can't talk about dogs anymore, Josh. I'm enjoying the dog blow, to be fair. I'm enjoying the dog.

The birth was amazing. The birth was amazing. Was it? Was it good? Yeah. I had the eagles playing, not live. All right. I'm going, wow, that is a real expensive labour,

having the eagles playing live in concert. I had a C-section, and take it easy, I had a real expensive labour, having the Eagles playing live in concert. I had a C-section and take it easy. I had a playlist. Yeah, yeah. And I put that on in the background. And I just felt like with the drugs and everything that they gave me, because I had low blood pressure at one point. Oh, no.

I was in this sort of white room, very sort of ab-fabby. Yeah. And then the baby delivered to me going, tickety. Oh, that is perfect. This sounds amazing. And I was like, oh, this is fabulous. Yeah. So it was a great birth.

Great birth. I was very lucky. That's good. And how do you feel if you hear that song now? Does that take you back to being drugged up in a white room with a baby? I listen to it all the time. It's your happy place. It was really a special moment.

I really felt like, even afterwards, when the drugs had gone off and the epidural and all that, there's something when people say, you know, you go, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's something about when you hold that baby and you look at them for the first time and just something otherworldly happens. And thank God that you have that moment to cling on to at times, because then when they're star-shaped in your bed and you're sleep deprived and you feel like a crazy woman, you have to hang on to that moment. I don't know if it's all men but i i felt nothing apart from

fucking hell what am i going to do with this yeah no i know what you mean rob i felt a lot of pressure to feel something that i wasn't feeling yeah i mean i felt like someone had given me a live octopus on the beach and it's all crawling i'm like what the fuck i just launched it back in the sea which you know you can't throw a baby back in can you so i didn't know i didn't know what to do i didn't have that magic moment martin maybe i needed more drugs i love them now obviously but i didn't have that amazing over the next few days no i think a lot of people don't have that moment i think it takes a while like that kind of um i suppose because the first one we had was like an emergency c-section you didn't really have that no it was so stressful you didn't have that moment of like oh this is amazing you

were like oh thank god it's all right they're not both dead basically if i'm honest that's that's what i want to feel all the time as a base level thank god they're not too fine a point on it thank god they're not both dead yeah exactly and did you find you you found it quite easy did you take to it well or did you find it difficult at the first stages of being a mum or was it was it all right i think that you probably heard this so much and you probably said it so much but it's just the lack of sleep all of a sudden like i'm somebody that needs my sleep yeah and i just i'm not a very nice i'm not a very nice person and I'm just not. You're looking at Jack out the corner of your eye now.

Is that true? Could you, could you ask him what you're like when you've had lack of sleep? You're delightful. You're delightful. Oh, gutless. I own it, I'm gutless. Fair enough. So how bad was the sleep, Martine? Well, it was just, you know, it was just getting up every couple of hours and, you know, your boobs hurting and you feel deranged

and you don't know what time of the day it is and there's this baby that needs you and you're trying to be good and make sure they're safe and pan you and you're trying to be good and make sure they're safe and panicking and you're in this fight or flight mode the whole time and it's hard because there's only there's not really much else if if you're breastfeeding there's not really much else that anyone else can do yeah you feel a bit alone and a bit on your own with it but i was quite lucky because i've just remembered I'm making myself out to be a real

hero here but I just remembered that after the c-section and the light moment the epiphany moment yeah Rafferty as often a lot of children c-sections do had fluid on the lung and he was rushed off I didn't have him and they had to give him formula so he was breastfed and formula from the word go okay yeah so occasionally when I couldn't do it I would nudge Jack and he would get those tiny little bottles and he would give him one of those and I remember I've got a photo I've got a photo of him he's laying in bed he's doing he's doing his emails what he's doing and the baby's there with its own bottle and i was just like changes your life how and he's just like that getting on with everything and i was just like how do you find this so easy well yeah i suppose you see it's you know i found it obviously we did a lot of bottle feeding.

We do struggle with breastfeeding at the start and stuff. But I do think if you're a dad and the mum's doing all the breastfeeding, there's no formula at all, you do have a bit of an easier run at it, don't you? Because there's literally, you can't get up to help in the night with the bottle feeding and stuff. So it's quite good that there's a little bit of a sort of, I don't know, sort of judgment if a kid's on formula or whatever. So the fact, it was quite nice, I suppose.

If the hospital had already done it, anyway, you can still be a bit judgment-free, can't you? Yeah. I think as well, another nice thing about it, it took me a long time to have Repetit, and it happened naturally. But I've got, like, ME and Lyme disease. My body kind of fights off a lot of things, so it finds it hard to hold on to pregnancies.

Oh, wow. Finally, finally, I had it naturally. To this day, doctors don't know how we manage to keep a successful pregnancy. Is it very unlikely then that the chance is quite low with Lyme disease and your other conditions to conceive then and keep the pregnancy? Yeah, with my combination and my immune system, they kind of explained it in very sort of simple childlike terms that all my little soldiers that need to fight

to keep my immune system working, they can't do that and keep the baby safe. Oh, wow. So it was such an amazing time when I i finally did manage to have him of course yeah yeah did that make the pregnant so was the pregnancy a really stressful period yeah i mean i yeah every everyone was i never every pregnancy i had i never knew how it was gonna end up but it was weird because i just put my instagram last night that my dog Harry who I just look in his eyes and he's like this deep Tibetan soul or something because the minute that I was pregnant with Rafferty it was almost like he knew this is the one this is the one that's gonna stay safe and before I even knew I was

pregnant he started getting on the bed which he never does and he would gently rub his chin on my stomach and then i realized i was pregnant then i kept the pregnancy for the for the first time in god knows how many times and through the end like he was like my shadow he would lead the way he would bark he would let jack know if i needed something he'd run down and bark and get him it was he's just like the most amazing dogs are just so amazing dogs are good yes dogs are good dogs are good thanks Martin so Rob if you ever get pregnant your dog will protect you that's what we've got now that's what you've got that's a positive for the dog so so obviously you must have been so anxious during that pregnancy Martin so you know you don't have to talk about this if you're not comfortable but sometimes the listeners do sort of appreciate it with people that are struggling with pregnancies and stuff so had you had you

had you been pregnant a number of times before then and it wasn't successful yeah yeah i'd had miscarriages before and i've spoken about it before yeah there was quite a lot. And you kind of just, you didn't know in the end, I didn't know in the end how to feel, whether to feel fearful, whether to feel scared, whether to really believe in it or not, you know, what was going to happen. But it is so wonderful. And I do feel so lucky that, you know, I managed to become a mother. And because in this day and age, more than ever,

like miscarriage seems to be through the roof. Yeah. And no one really talks about it as well. So it makes it harder for people to know how to feel. Yeah. Or I find, you know, I get people grieve differently. But when you have had miscarriages and you've grieved yourself when you suddenly sort of see it all of a sudden on instagram and it's quite traumatic and it catches you unaware and there's no warning that this is

going to contain upsetting footage it takes you straight back to that moment and i think i think i think it needs to be you know I think people need to talk about it but I think it needs to be done you know as often the case with many things it needs to be done in the right way yes we've done this in a conversational way it's led this it's led there it's got there but I do sometimes think when suddenly you just see a photo of someone just a bit like I think it's quite harrowing for them obviously but also like you didn't choose to see that moment at that time yeah of course um so i think personal thing i think it's such a personal thing and i think like you say when people some people are ready to talk about it

some people aren't and it's all okay because it's such a huge thing yeah there's no right or wrong way to deal with it i mean you know, Josh, Josh has experienced it as well. Yeah. What I found with was the second pregnancy, we had a child and then we had a miscarriage. We had a second child and the second pregnancy, I found no, I sound,

this sounds awful, but you don't find any joy in it. I found it just total. Oh God, that's another day we've got through and nothing's gone wrong. Do you know what I mean? Oh, and the scans suddenly became, the first time the scans were really exciting. The scans become like getting an exam result where you can only think about whether you failed.

Do you know what I mean? Like you can only imagine what's going to go wrong. And I thought that was quite an interesting thing where no one really talks about how it then affects, even if you do have another kid or that isn't a easy ride that suddenly becomes infected with all these memories of what happened before i think yeah and you and i think you know there are people out there that didn't manage to have that other child and there's all of that you know and and lose children at quite a late stage yeah yeah you just assume miscarriages they happen early on and and they happen at all different times and i think that there's a grieving process there's there's and then of course

when you get pregnant again if you've got hit by a bus you're gonna look left or right you know to see yeah yeah and it does take that spontaneity like you say and that fun yeah out of out of the joy of of really truly embracing the pregnancy but also you're you're being you're doing the right thing you're being wise because you're making an informed choice and you know how fragile life is and you do know it's not a given yeah um and um and i think that a loss of life it's no wonder not a lot of people talk about it all the time it's a huge thing it's a hugest thing yeah of course and then your brain's a horrible thing isn't it because all of a sudden it goes oh you're not enjoying the pregnancy you should be enjoying it and then other people and then it's a vicious cycle of whatever's going on you're beating yourself up over it so i think you just got to be kind to yourself and i felt

really like i felt for jack because obviously i my body would often go through all the phases of pregnancy and the hormones that went with it and jack could literally like hold my hand and try and be supportive but other than that yeah know, he just wanted to make everything right. I feel I did feel for the partner. I did really feel because at least I was going through it. I felt like I was a doer. I was trying. And I did really feel for Jack throughout all of it.

So I do think it is hard for the partner. And when your son was born. So obviously, I mean, I don't know loads about Emmy, but that must be if you're I mean I don't know loads about ME but that must be if you're having I don't know how it works but like if you're struggling with energy and stuff that must be really difficult parenting right it's really hard so um from what I was told from my specialist um he said to me when you do manage to have a successful pregnancy, what I would personally advise for you and your case history, because ME can fluctuate and Lyme and things like that. It's so different for different people.

And a lot of people kind of get on their orange box and shout at you if you talk about it. But for me personally, he said, you'd be better off having a C-section because a lot of the people that have had what you've got had the baby naturally they're so chuffed with themselves that they've used every ounce of energy yeah even a normal person finds tough to recover from and then they can't pick up their children and bond with them for a couple of months afterwards yeah so that's why he said, I think we should have a C-section,

have that recovery. And when Rafferty had the fluid on his lungs, they said that once you can walk with your little drip on wheels up and down the corridor, you can go and see it. So of course I was like, C-section? What C-section? I've got this superhuman baby. And I was up and down the corridor and the nurses were like, what are you doing?

And I was like, I'm ready. I'm ready to go and see him. You know what? I'm always going to think of Take It Easy and the Eagles. I think of you and Rafferty now. That's such a lovely story. Thank you. Martine, I was going gonna ask this as well because when you was a kid you did a lot of telly as a kid didn't you adverts and stuff like that and a bit of a child star is that something you'd like for

Ruffety or would you push him away from it as he got a bit older do you know I'm not gonna push him into it and I'm not gonna push him away from it I'm gonna just I push him into it and I'm not going to push him away from it. I'm going to just, I want him to flourish and I want him to find who he is and what he is. And he might go through different phases. You know, he might go through phases. I mean, he does, I have to say, he, I don't know if I'll say this, but he loves Robin Romesh and I have to try and stop the bad words. That's quite a saucy show, isn't it?

Yeah, he doesn't always leave much... He absolutely loves it. He has a laugh and he loves making people laugh. Oh, really? Yeah, he loves having that audience and making people giggle. He knows that we love Kenny Rogers and he came down the other day

with a little pretend beard on their hand. I thought you meant Kenny Rogers and he came down the other day with a little 10 weird on their hands. I thought you meant Kenny Rogers came down. So he dressed up as Kenny Rogers? He dressed up as the Six. The little guitar. Yeah, because my mum loves it. And so when she comes home, she goes, I like that.

Kenny Rogers the Gambler. And it comes on. And so he knows all about it. We told him all about the gambler and what the song means if you think so he came down with a beard and a hat and then he just absolutely loved it that we were crying with love oh bless him alexa's playing the gambler start alexa oh no you've started it oh no other people listening the amount of people listening that that's just happened to as well. We like doing that in this show.

It's a little Easter egg we put in. I'll tell you what we could do, Martine. I don't know if you still get money for streams, but we could say Alexa and play Perfect Moment. Because a lot of people listen to this. If it all switches to it straight away, that could be thousands of streams. You'd probably make it back.

You'd make it into the top 40 on streams alone, just off the back of this. That would be amazing. It wouldgers and marty mccutcheon at number one and two so quiet alexa play perfect moment by marty mccutcheon perfect look at that there we go does he seen um things that you've done like is he interested in your career? Something, right? I don't know if your other half said this to you and I promise you it's true. Ever since I've had Rafferty,

now they say you get baby brain. Yeah. The baby brain as they grow up, I don't think it ever comes back. I think that's just,

I think it's all related to tiredness. Yeah. Because you never really catch up on sleep whatever age they get to you always just you're tired forever now you know when you see i used to when i was about 22 and i see old people like at 7am gonna get the paper and i'll be what is their fucking problem you've

got no one in that house you're about 73 what the fuck are you doing i'm up at six every day now like a mad dog just staring at the sky i mean i think you have kids it just and that's the thing why i'm sort of actually, I think we're doing all right with the dog is because I'm already dead inside from the kids. So, you know, where else is there to go? Yeah, I would say I don't think you are doing all right with the dog, but we'll move on.

Yeah. So, Rufus, who does love to watch what I do, Josh, I will come back to your question. Before Rob has a dog face breakdown. I went to do, The first time he noticed it I did Elf the Musical in arenas And he loved it The huge big musical thing

And the live audience Because you've got that mixture of like arena Concert mentality with musical And when everybody was up on their feet And cheering at the end He was like Mummy And he was so proud of me

Amazing And then when I did the Masked Singer and he saw the reveal, I literally just put my camera over on the windowsill over there and he was just so chuffed because he had seen the Masked Singer. And you cannot tell anyone. It's like an MI5 military operation.

Yeah. If you tell anyone, they put a dead horse's head in your bed. Has he seen you being run over by Frank Butcher on Christmas Day? No! You can't show that to a kid. His mum getting killed. Stop!

That is not... It was Tiffany. It was Tiffany. It was Tiffany. Completely different woman in the East End. It just looks a bit like Mummy. There's no longer a good thing. You don't understand our relationship with Gran. What I was going to say, who did he think you were in The Masked Singer?

Did he have guesses or did he not really guess? Was he too young to guess? Well, no, he didn't think any of them were me. He was like, I'm not sure about Swan. She's not that cute. I was like, I think she's really good and i think she dances quite well you can't you don't know what the others are doing in those little cutesy outfits yeah you can't see the full choreography of a wing can you

no no as you had like obviously quite a different upbringing to what you had in the East End. Oh my God. My mum's like, when we drive into school, my mum sat in the back with the fag, of course. But she wound down the window, she went, this fucking kid don't know he's bald. My God, with a wind in. My mum, shush, put the window back up and put the fag out. And yeah, very, very different.

I was in a Peabody estate and had to walk past a load of, you know, drug dealers on the front line every day that had guns and drugs in the bottom of their prams. And maybe a little Irish name would run past them. And then Rafferty turns up to, yeah, it's supposed to be a beautiful school. But I think I'll never, ever, he's got no choice, but with the people around him and the situations that we're going to be in, just as a family, we've got DNA to keep it real. Yeah, yeah.

I like that for me personally, it was a concern about, you know, do we send him private? Do we send him state school? And it depends where you are and what those state schools are, for starters. Yeah. And secondly, I just wanted to know, with the pressure of being a working mum,

with the pressure of keeping my disease at bay, and Jack's got his career, I just wanted to know he was safe and it's something that I I just thought I know he's safe like I know they're not going to carry knives there I know they're not gonna like they just don't and and I'll take him into reality and I'll keep him into that that's the way around I chose personally to do it um but I think it all depends on like your situation and circumstance I just think that um I worked so hard to have choice and that's all I ever wanted you know I never wanted to be anything I was I wasn't and I always I still go back to where I'm from I still see my friends does my family there but I what I for me it was

all about choice I wanted the choice for myself choice for my family and that's why I work so hard is to have the choices with those things and did your mum still live in that area or she has she moved out of that area now as well does he go back and stay with her and stuff no she's out of that area now my brother's still in the area. My stepdad and all his kids and family, they're all still Bethnal Greenway. Yeah. Still go to Pelicci's

where they think it's, you know, kind of love if they drew a cock on your cappuccino. It's actually a hate crime, but I know you're having a laugh, okay?

What about, do you take him back for pie mash and stuff like that he's had pie mash and and all of that stuff all of that stuff he's gone down the market i used to do the markets my mum down the raven road she used to do dry flower arrangements and things like that when she wasn't selling the dodgy perfumes that was the worst one with a little mic right there the little that the one that little britney mic selling perfume for that night you get you basically it was 20 quid you got 15 bottles

of perfume i was like the deal's too good it's obviously you used to push me up front and go go on you do it for some reason they believe you more rodney rodney and dill boy had nothing on us yeah but um you know what i loved it I still love it there's still like a a humor that is in you when you come from a certain background what you grow up with whatever it may be it's in your DNA that only the people that are around you at that time completely get yeah and there's something I find really comforting about that and it's also something I find really annoying when other people don't get it. Yeah.

What's his accent like? How do you feel about it? He's quite neutral. He's quite neutral. He's got the odd twang of me. Yeah. But you've got to remember, Josh, that when I go back to Bethnal Green, they think I speak beautifully.

You've changed. They do. They go, oh my God, don't you speak nice now. Don't you speak nice now. This isn't helping my decision as to whether to leave Hackney or not, Rob, if I'm honest with you. Are you in Hackney? Yeah.

Yeah, I live in Hackney, yeah. He gentrified it and pushed you out. I'm one of the posh lot, though, aren't I? Elegantly slamming it, Josh. Yeah, exactly, mate. Where is it you live that the cab drivers laugh at, Josh? Well, I don't use this terminology, right, now, because I've made the mistake.

What you don't call the area is Victoria Park Village because that goes down very badly indeed. now because i've made the mistake what you don't call the area is victoria park village because that goes down very badly indeed martine's covering her face with laughter at the moment and martine would you would you describe jack as a bit posher than you then oh yeah yeah so did you clash with the upbringing of your child and certain things that you wanted to do or he didn't want to do and stuff like that, or was it quite harmonious? I just think that I don't know how to explain it. He's not posh.

He's from Bromley. But most people are posher than me. That's not hard. You know that programme, Who Do You Think You Are? Oh, yeah. Have any of you done it? Yeah, I did well they called me and they were just really disappointed because like it just there's a load of mud huts and wrong that they just didn't talk about and they were all excited but i like to do. And then they called me and went, this isn't going to work. There's nothing there. But yeah, Bromley is a little bit, Bromley's got nice parts.

I'd say Bromley as a whole is probably a bit posher than the East End where you grew up. Bromley's a bit nicer, yeah. There's some really nice parts. It's greener and it's definitely kind of more of its own thing. It's a little bit more like Essex, I'd say. I'd say so, yeah. kind of more of its own thing. It's a little bit more like Essex, I'd say. Yeah, I'd say so, yeah.

Whereas I think the East End is really, unless it's like the nouveau, you know, East End, it's really raw and it's really, yeah, it's just a whole different, grittier thing. It's pretty raw where I live, actually. Pretty edgy and raw on my part of the East End. Yeah, only the Sofice. And there's my friend down the road on le crack but it was it was all right then with you didn't have different ideas of bringing up kids with you and jack it was quite on the same page no we seem to sort of I think essentially are you the boss

martin do you just tell him what's happening and he agrees? Is that a fair assumption? Until a point. Okay. He'll let me sort of run and rave and go on with what I'm doing. And then if there's something that he really, really doesn't agree with, he puts his foot down and that's it. Oh, so he lets it slide,

but then really brings out the big guns for certain things. Yeah. When was the last time he had to put his foot down, Martine? Do you want to share? Or is this too relationshiply deep? She's thinking. I'm thinking. It was when I was getting off of the Amazon delivery guy,

and he said, Martine, come on. You know what? It's getting close. I do have a problem with shopping. And I would say that we i mean i did a photo for the dhl man because he'd seen me so many times and his sister's a big fan and um we're you know really really good friends lose pally with our delivery guy as well yeah rose gets on gets on well with ours. I know the Royal Mail guy.

Yeah. I know the HL guy, the Hermes delivery or Hermes delivery. I know them all. Like, when they go, oh, I get too many Amazon deliveries. And I'm like,

and I know Jack's thinking, thinking, you've got fucking nothing on her. Do you know first name, your first name turns or just a bit more, you know, recognised as fake?

Yeah, their first name turns. Terry. Terry? Yeah. Do first name turns. Terry. Terry? Yes. Do you keep it or there's a lot of returns in our house that have to go back? Is there? Are you re-bagging and sending back?

No, like, we'll order, like, three different colours of a dress, three different sizes. Oh, man. Try it on, send it back. That is organised, isn't it? That's hardcore. That is really organised. And I'm guessing, Josh, you're either half-blood like me, that if it doesn't's hardcore. It's really organized. And I'm guessing, Josh, your other half might be like me,

that if it doesn't work, it just didn't happen. No, if it's in the house, it's in the house forever. The house somewhere. I mean, all of that, I'm going to take it back and stick a sticker on it and give it back to somebody. And then I've got to go and queue up in the room. No, I've got to laugh to it. Oh, yeah.

So, okay, I get that. So what you're saying, you'll buy stuff you'll never use, but keep it out of laziness. Yeah. Welcome to my house, mate. Welcome to my house. Yeah. And then what happens

is that my mum and my sister and my family come round and then they're like, ooh, what have you got that doesn't fit right? Let's have a look. And they're all having a rummage and they're all,

I'll have that, I'll have that, I'll have that. And then whatever they don't want goes to the Princess Alice hospice and they're always really thrilled to see me oh okay that's fair enough you okay you win god absolutely absolutely done me with a hospice that's not fair you can't you can't finish an argument with then I'll take it to the hospice so Lou is deciding that the hospice shouldn't have clothing is that what you're saying Rob every time she sends it back... You know what? You're right.

She's sending that back for her own greed. She'd prefer the money back than a hospice to have a shirt. Oh, well, I'll tell her. I'll tell her what she's depriving people of. Unbelievable. Oh, my God. One of our guys, which I think is a great idea, delivery guy, also does a side hustle on a Sunday of washing cars. So when he stops the stuff, he goes, I'll do car cleaning on a Sunday. That one's a great idea. Delivery guy also does a side hustle on a Sunday of washing cars.

So when he stops the stuff off, he goes, I'll do car cleaning on a Sunday. That one's a bit dirty. And then he touts to work that way. That's a clever way of doing it. Yeah, I've got three dresses here you can clean my car with. Thank you very much. Do you want to do the final question, Rob?

Are you sat alone, Martine? Or are you still being observed doing the podcast? So this is quite exciting. No, no, no. You can stay. No, we've never done this question live before, which is exciting. The question is...

Is it going out? Oh, yeah. Oh, bless him. Oh, no, stay. You can stay. Stay. Any excuse to leave? Go, yeah. Oh, bless him. Oh, no, stay. You can stay. Stay. Any excuse to leave. Go, go.

I'm only there in case the internet breaks. He's only there in case the internet breaks because I'm really bad with technical stuff. I need like a feather and a quill and a wax seal. That's my kind of era. Yeah, because your Zoom name is Jack McManus as well. You've not even got your own Zoom name. I know, i'm so bad i'm so bad um anyway this last question is one thing that your partner or jack does that annoys you about parenting but you don't really bring it up because it will cause an unnecessary argument is there something that's been niggling

away at you that if they listen back and we'll go okay that is fair enough or do you just get it all off your chest or is there something you're holding back okay for me it's the secret calls to the mother-in-law about when she's coming over to look after rafferty and then just makes out that it's all just happened and i've planned in my diary he's got mother-in-law driving him nuts to see rafferty because she adores him and loves him and wants to see him yeah and he's kind of like in the middle trying to juggle us both okay and I and I'm like he's like oh my mum was just saying that she might want to come over tomorrow or maybe she could pick up Rafferty from school and it could be like a rare day that I've got off and I'm like you've already had that conversation with your mum haven't you oh so she'll say he'll go oh yeah mum get him next Wednesday and take him out for dinner and

then he'll come to you like a day before going oh I thought it might be a nice idea but you know you can't say no yeah it doesn't remember he's been busy been in the studio working and then drops it on me the night before and I'm like well I'm really glad that I put the day off to go and pick him up and now you've let your mum go and do it all that's that's that's fabulous well done okay that is that is quite so what would you do will you get him to cancel the mum or do you just take it on the chin very rarely but every so often when I just want him to remember the woman of the house I've said cancel no shit takes no shit Martine McCutcheon good work i mean many times many many times i've

gone time i'll share it yeah i'm you know here what a waste of the day i could have just done this and that fine whatever and then okay every so often i'm just like you've done it again you've not listened to me we don't need her. We don't need her. You need to cancel her. Oh, my word. That is a tough call to have to make to cancel your own mum. It's hard to tell someone to cancel their mum. I've seen some of her tweets.

Well, there's times, though. But listen, you know, there's times. No, but there's a job come in and it's to advertise this or to film this. And I've said no to it because i've put him first and i want to do it with him and then i'm sat there with the mother-in-law not even getting paid for that for free having to put up with her by the way we get on great and she would probably be the first to say that the weak link in all this it's not me or her is it no it's jack yeah it's all jack's fault okay that's a good one though that's fair i think i'm

sure that happens a lot it's all good we're going to have to wrap it up though because we've got Jack McLannis' mum on next in a double booking oh my god you'll be able

to listen to it in a couple of weeks Jack yeah enjoy yourself mate oh my god enjoy the last few weeks of your marriage

before it goes out he's laughing I think all for it martin thank you so much for doing this it's been brilliant thank you so much martin i've had such a laugh we've laughed we've cried it's been brilliant and we really appreciate your honesty talking about the slightly more difficult things as well people really appreciate that and i think it's really wise words. Thank you.

It's all being human, isn't it? All being human. And the mother-in-law, yeah. I'm assuming we've got to wait for Jack to press the button for you, Martine. Yeah. Is that right? She was just going to keep waving until Jack.

All right. Thanks, guys. Cheers. See you later, mate. See you later. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Martine McCutcheon. That was great. I enjoyed that, Josh. Yeah, that was great. I knew you'd bring up Frank Butcher. Can't I, mate? You were so excited to bring up 90s nostalgia, you suggested that she show a fictional version of her murder

in front of her son. Do you know what? It wasn't murder, Rob. It was an accident. Look, Rafferty stop crying it was an accident frank didn't mean it frank was not at fault for that accident rafferty but that was that was great i really enjoyed that really good uh and i would say it now rob yep it's very rare you do a podcast where the other two people have both got their partners in the room at the same time. Yes.

I was the only one flying solo for the first 20 minutes. It was a ludicrous decision that Lou's just said, oh, I'll come down with the dog. As if... Oh, weirdly, Lou was making more noise than the dog, panicking about trying to get him to be quiet by dropping his treats and stuff. Anyway, yeah, so that was...

The dogs are fine. They're great, actually. They're lovely. You know, as Martine said, they're brilliant and they're not hard at all. And they genuinely don't get any more difficult. That's the beauty of them. But you love it. You love it.

Yeah, I fucking love it. I don't. You know what? Fucking sleep and you're dead, mate. Oh, I've got to go and sleep for eight hours every night. Fucking get a life, mate. I'm up and about. I'm seeing the world, yeah?

I'm fucking taking in those big deep breath, 4am, misty, foggy. That crunchy frost at 3am. It's the best time of the day, isn't it, Rob? Best time of the day when it's just you. You can do your proper thinking. And when they do a shit on the frost at minus two in the middle of the night, it's actually easier to pick up the dog shit. You know what I mean?

You'd be an idiot to take them out at 11am. Who wants to be picking up dog shit in the heat after eight hours sleep? Come on, mate. Grow up. Anyway, see you on Tuesday, Rob, for more positivity. Yeah, bye. See you then. Bye.

Soap from the Box is the TV podcast that goes behind the scenes of the nation's favourite shows, including Coronation Street, Emmerdale, Hollyoaks and EastEnders. You know, it was literally, we couldn't sort of go anywhere without being recognised. I'm Lee Salisbury and I directed the shows and the stars in them. On this podcast, I delve where no one else has been. You can listen to over 70 episodes right now, with stars including Sue Johnston, Glynis Barber, Denise Welsh, Sid Owen, Sally Dynevor and Danny Minogue.

No more, no more. In this week's episode, I chat to the star of one of the biggest Christmas films of all time. Hi, I'm Martine McCutcheon. Yes, love actually. And EastEnders actress Martine McCutcheon goes behind the scenes with me, especially for you. It's such a beautiful thing, like,

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