Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S04 EP28: Tom Craine

Episode Date: May 6, 2022

S04 EP28: Tom Craine Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the comedian and writer - Tom Craine. Tom's excellent podcast 'My Favourite Takeaway' is available now on all podcast platforms. BIG NEWS.... we're writing a book! ⭐ All the stories we can’t tell on the podcast – in depth.⭐ What it’s like to raise a stiff neck and a loose neck – straight from the horse’s mouth (our parents)⭐ And.. the BIGGEST REQUEST WE’VE EVER HAD FOR THE PODCAST… Hearing from our wives, Rose & Lou. They’ve got a chapter each and YOU can submit your burning questions to them... [e-mail]'s it really like to be a parent? And how come no one ever warned Rob or Josh of the sheer mind-bending, world-altering, sleep-depriving, sick-covering, tear-inducing, snot-wiping, bore-inspiring, 4am-relationship-straining brutality of it all? And if they did, why can't they remember it (or remember anything else, for that matter)?And just when they thought it couldn't get any harder, why didn't anyone warn them about the slices of unmatched euphoric joy and pride that occasionally come piercing through, drenching you in unbridled happiness in much the same way a badly burped baby drenches you in milk-sick?Join Josh and Rob as they share the challenges and madness of their parenting journeys with lashings of empathy and extra helpings of laughs. Filled with all the things they never tell you at antenatal classes, Parenting Hell is a beguiling mixture of humour, rumination and conversation for prospective parents, new parents, old parents and never-to-be parents alike.Find out everything you need to know, including how you could win a pair of tickets to the Parenting Hell LIVE tour & an overnight stay in London here: https://www.bit.ly/ParentingHellBookWe're going on tour!! Fancy seeing the podcast live in some of the best venues in the UK?Of course you do, you're not made of stone! Tickets available now on the dates and at the venues below. We can't wait to see you there...ON SALE NOW 14th April 2023 - Manchester AO Arena19th April 2023 - Nottingham20th April 2023 - Cardiff 21st April 2023 - London (The O2)23rd April 2023 - London (Wembley)28th April 2023 - Birmingham Utilita Arena If you want to get in touch with the show here's how:EMAIL: [e-mail]: @parenting_hellINSTAGRAM: @parentinghellA 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willicombe. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with your tips, advice and, of course, tales of parenting woe.

Because, let's be honest, there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing. Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hell with... Can Jackson say Rob? Rob. Beckett. Beckett. And Josh. Josh.

Whittacombe. Whittacombe. Clever boy. Duh. There we go. Hi, Rob and Josh. This is my two-year-old son, Jackson, doing his intro to the sexiest, funniest,

and most relatable comedians. Absolutely love the podcast so much so that I've recommended it to everyone I know. And I also have a voice note agreement with my friend in France where we share our Crosby's laws. That and the fact that whenever my husband and I lose our shit,

we just calmly refer back to it as a milk tray incident. This podcast has potentially saved our marriage. Can't wait for the book, and to come and see you next year in Birmingham, Katie and Jackson in Tamworth. Yes. Jackson is spelt with an X. J-A-X-O-N.

Yeah. Sounds like a criminal from it from the future? Criminal from a future film Jackson I vividly remember The first time I heard Miss Jackson by Outkast Yeah And I thought

This changes everything Why? This is the greatest song I've ever heard Why did you I sat In a car Waiting for my dad To come out of spa

In Bovey Tracy in Devon. Can't try and keep it relatable, mate, all these showbiz stories. I just vividly thought, this is how music should sound. That was a good album. I like that album. I just, I don't know, for some reason I've got such a vivid memory of it. Yeah. But there we go.

There you go. It's a good song. It is a good song. But spelt differently to Jack's on. How are you, Josh Widdicombe? I'm all right. But do you know what?

Do you want to hear something, Rob? Yeah, always. I am slightly struggling psychologically. Okay. And what's the news? Isn't that a standard issue? Yeah, sorry.

I thought you were going to tell me something new. You didn't even acknowledge that. Did you? No, I didn't even understand. Okay. I didn't even acknowledge that, did you? No, I didn't even understand. Okay. I didn't even understand. Oh, God.

So, you may or may not know, please do watch it. Hypothetical on Dave that I do with James Acaster, we're now doing a spin-off podcast series. Oh, yeah, I saw that. To promote the new series, yeah. How many episodes are you doing? Ten. Rob.

Ten? Yeah. This is... This is, Rob, today. Yeah. The fifth podcast I've recorded. Don't you do that. I am fucked. Don't you do that.

How long are the episodes? An hour. Fuck off. I am, this is the beginning of my fifth hour of podcasting today. What about your football podcast? Do you still do that? Yeah, but not today. God, you love it. You do, don't you? You can't get enough of podcasting today. What about your football podcast? Do you still do that? Yeah, but not today. You love it.

You do, don't you? You can't get enough of it. Rob, if you could see how dead my eyes were, you wouldn't go, he loves podcasting. You'd go, that is a man who has nothing left to say. Ever. Could I just tell you though yeah

an anecdote I've got well I was going to say this because we this comes from one of our podcasts talk about doing too many podcasts one of our podcasts

nearly didn't go up did it didn't nearly go onto the internet and this is the reason why it was the one when we were announcing our book so it we had like

because when you announce a book it's like there's all these timed things like because obviously there's a press release and there's when you all that kind of stuff you were quite stressed but it doesn't really matter

any of that no I know it doesn't they just say oh we're going to announce a book at 10am so be good if the podcast is out before then but like

I like things I know and to be honest Rob everyone's got fucking eight months to buy the book so I don't know what the advantage of 10am versus 8am is

there's nothing but you were really you messaged me me loads gonna you up are you up i can't get through to michael the podcast isn't up the book announcements at 10 out of the book announcement it's not it's hardly like a new lockdown announcement it's just a book sign eight months you were like proper stressing this is the bit this is the low bit because it was when michael was stuck on holiday. Yeah. Still stuck on holiday. And I thought, I've got to phone him.

His phone is going to answer phone. Hang on, what time was this? He was in St. Lucia. So he's in like American time. So this was 7am UK time. This annoys me. That's the kind of holiday you have when you don't have fucking kids. You go to St. Lucia because it's only two flights, not four.

And you're just there in St Lucia. He's like Simon Cowell on a jet ski and we're Jedward. Absolute disgrace. Do you know what? What we're going to find out in six years, like Jedward or someone like that, is that it turned out that St Lucia was billed back to us all along. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

He recorded one podcast there. The whole trip was claimed back. See you in court. Be like the Sex Pistols. He'll own Rob Beckett, the identity of me. I wonder if he'll be able to call my kids back. That's the only reason I don't say my kids' names, because Michael will own them.

So I thought, I've got to get through to him because the podcast isn't up. And what can I do? I can't get through to his phone. So do you know what I did? I thought, I wonder if he's tagged himself in his location on Instagram. And he had. Oh, you insta-stalked him?

I went and, right, I follow him. But he went through his posts. I didn't go back through two years. It was the most recent post was tagged with the hotel. So I then phoned the hotel. I'm like, could you put me through to Michael, please? Michael Martin. What time is this?

5 a.m.? 2 a.m. St. Lucia time. 2 a.m. St. Lucia time. And they were like, we can't put you through. It's 2 a.m. And I'm like, it's an emergency. Look, St. Lucia, I don't know if you know, there's a book about parenting out, and there's not been many,

and that's coming out in eight months. And if you think that I'm going to promote a book on a podcast after 10am, you're on a different planet, buddy. So they wouldn't let you get through, obviously, because they're in a good hotel. It's an emergency. Did they ask you what emergency? No. And I thought, I can't make one up.

You should have said, I'm pregnant. I can't get through to Michael and go, just so you know, yeah, your house hasn't burnt down, but I am through now. So could you pop that podcast up? We've got a book to sell bitch wakey wakey so they said phone back at 5 a.m solution time well i'd rather get woke up at 2 a.m wouldn't you if you get woke up at 5 a.m you're up for the day if you get woken up at 2 a.m you you can get back to sleep so i phone up at 5 a.m yeah exactly i phone up at 5 a.m why you care so much, Josh? Because when I get something in my head

I think, this has got to be done. Or what? Or what? I don't know. Rob. I just care. I just care about the wrong things. No, no, no. It's good to care, but yeah. You don't mind. You like a bit of admin. You haven't got much on. In between your podcast

records, ring St Lucia about another podcast. Jesus Christ, what am I doing with my life? You're a bit too stressed, I think, mate. You need to be in St Lucia. Stop ringing, mate. Get going. Why aren't you there? Put me through and then book me in for two weeks.

No, a room for one, please. No, I'm coming on my own. A writing retreat. No, I won't be bringing a fucking microphone. I can't work. I'm here to relax. Book me in for three months. One room, single occupancy.

This podcast. When we put the book announcement up, all the comments are like, yeah, fine. But where's the podcast, guys? Because I've got to commute this morning. People are building their lives around this yeah all right well done you're writing a book where the fuck is today's podcast i think for

for a free product the anger that it was late was unacceptable i was like guys can we all just relax right we should get on with our guest rob yes we should it's a great guest. Oh, God, I'm tired. But if you think I'm tired, listen to this, man. Never has anyone slept less with three years of a child.

Oh, God, yeah, I forgot about that. This is great. Oh, my, Tom Crane, if you feel like you're tired from your kids, listen to this, and you'll feel like you've just been reborn. Yeah. He doesn't, he's got no sleep, has he?

No. If you think Tom Parry was tired, that was like six months in. This man is three years in. This is Tom Crane. Hello, Tom Crane. Hi, Josh. How are you? Good.

Michael, the producer, gave a warning there before we started recording because he's worried that you're that you're too worried about what people think about your relationship with your kids that you're going to hold back. Right. OK. So the warning was basically I don't need to constantly explain I love my kids. That's that's that's a given. That's a given on this show, Tom. I feel a bit like I've interrupted your little coffee catch-up because you two, this is quite interesting for me and the listener that you two are like proper mates to hang out with kids a lot

because you're near each other. So this is quite a window into what Josh is really like off-mic, Tom, for us. We went to the zoo on Sunday, Rob. Yeah, but what about

stuff with the kids? It's just a lovely bit of business, isn't it? It's that kind of stuff. All joking apart, I would happily go to the zoo with you josh just for a day i mean literally that'd be a nice afternoon do you know what every time we go to the zoo this is the worst thing me and crane will have the discussion of whether it'd be nice to go without the kids which is yeah yeah i've i've sort of gone off london zoo because i did a corporate gig there and died on my arse. Did you? And the only people were laughing were the chimps in the distance.

And it's burned into me. I can't step foot back in that zoo. Oh, brutal. My weird relationship with London Zoo is that the only thing, so Charlie is my eldest, he's three and a half, the only thing he cares about is the carousel. He doesn't care about anything else. The whole journey is basically just skipping past the animals as quickly as he can to get to

his carousel in the middle yeah at which point i don't know why we're bothering going to camden but he's so in love with this thing yes he's so obsessed with it it's a completely fucking pointless thing the zoo because they don't it's wasted on them because they don't realize how mad it is that there's a giraffe in london they don't yeah yeah yeah they don't realise how mad it is that there's a giraffe in London. They don't understand that that shouldn't be happening. It's more mental that it's in London because I imagine, you know, when you normally get a zoo in a big bit of land in the countryside, it was normally like some rich bloke's estate that then turned into a zoo. But the thought of just trying to get a giraffe out of a lorry

and trying to find anywhere to park near Regent's Park. It's absurd. Sort of walking it through Camden. Past the market. Bring it in on the canal. Nothing worth buying in there, mate. Don't bother going in there trying to get... Yeah, no, I completely agree. So when we went on Saturday,

the only thing we managed to see, me, my girlfriend and our child, we saw one pelican. We had lunch in the... Had, had like lunch in the cafeteria. Incidentally, they serve burgers and fish and chips, which feels a bit weird. I don't know, I don't really, that feels a bit weird. And then we also went to the Butterfly House.

Do you think it should be vegetarian? I do feel that, yeah. I went to the London Aquarium and they have a fish and chip shop at the end of it. I don't, that feels weird. Does it not? It does. It is weird. It is a bit weird.

Like, you can't, like, pick one out, like, at a posh restaurant with a lobster. It doesn't work like that. But the fact this thing is at the end does feel off.

I was thinking as well, there must be people that went to Camden and did drugs, oblivious that there's a zoo around the corner and might have stumbled into it on a mad one.

You can see the giraffes poking over the wall sometimes. So there's a chance that you go out on a mad one. You can see the giraffes poking over the wall sometimes. So there's a chance that you go out on a big one in Camden, you're walking back at 6am and the giraffe looks over the wall at you. Josh knows about this. One of the things with my boy Charlie is that he doesn't want to walk anywhere, which is like really stressful. Sorry, Tom, to interrupt. So you've got one boy, boy Charlie is that right? So I'll explain I have two children I

have a little boy called Pip who's just turned one this weekend and an older boy called Charlie who I will despite the warning say I love very very much he's awesome but he uh I did that out Mike I did it out and but Charlie after like three footsteps is like i don't want to walk i'm tired my legs are tired so i spend my entire life carrying him around so at london zoo it's the same like i was carrying him as your no job i was carrying him all the way around the zoo like everywhere i have to carry him how old is he i was always he's three and a half you know three the parent you uh you saw when um there's always one parent who's pushing a pram and carrying their child at the same time.

It's an empty pram. So you're only getting the pram? That's what it is with Charlie. So that's the only frustration of going out to the zoo and stuff is I have to carry him everywhere. So what happens if you put him... I get when there's no pram, but if you've got a pram, why won't you just get in the pram?

Well, we're trying to sort of get the pram out a bit sort of you know you know sort of fade it out a bit to try and make him walk more we're using the scooter thing he goes around on but that just means i end up carrying a scooter and him try two kids two scooters carrying both during lockdown i did that across the park and i was livid i was so hot and tired and everything was so heavy. Do you have the thing where you make them promise beforehand that that definitely won't happen? Each time I'm like, OK, so if we're going to take the scooter, just to be clear, Charlie, you will be on the scooter there and back. Yeah, yeah, of course I will be, looking me dead in the eye

like he actually respects me. And then we'll get halfway to the park. Have you considered pushing on the scooter? Can't you put him standing on the scooter and then uh then okay it's like halfway to the park have you considered pushing on the scooter can't you put him standing on the scooter and then push the scooter i get lower back problems all right i do get that that's probably from carrying your fucking kid around the zoo you were near me complaining about my back because you're talking about how tall you six one six two six two yeah six two yeah so that's i find it a bit of a hunch on the back and i'm only five or eight to get down to the scooter so what about a lot of bigger scooter and then he

just holds and he holds on the bottom bit of the scooter and you could pull him along i'm gonna say it i'm not gonna throw these things around with many of our guests but i think tom's lower back problems are partly psychosomatic rob and the reason i'm saying that is his girlfriend told me that when they were trying prams, he claimed to have got lower back problems from a pram when trying it from one side of John Lewis. That is true. I did. It hurt. I felt a twinge.

Which John Lewis? The blue one's massive. It was the one near Oxford Circus. I did one full lap and it hurt. It did hurt. That's the flagship store. That's the flagship store to be fair. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But yeah, but that is a point of frustration.

My oldest doesn't walk at all. And then my youngest loves walking and stuff. So when it was the first lockdown and she was only two, the youngest, she'd get out, she'd get boogie moos loud out for an hour walking around with the pram. The oldest who was four would not get out of the pram at all for the entire walk and just eat some sandwiches it was a double buggy thing

and then the two-year-old would get out even though she was two years younger because she was bored and walk a bit so it's just different kids okay yeah i think that's i do think that's right because our younger boy already he's like he's only just turned a year but he's desperately going around on this sort of like trundle thing, which he's constantly, he's really physical. And he already dominates his older brother. Like Charlie's got this plastic toy car that he sits in in the living room. He's being physically dominated by a one-year-old. He completely is. Yeah, that's not a lie at all.

So there's this plastic car that Charlie sits in and pretends to drive around. And then Pip will come in and basically pull him out of it and then sit in it himself. Like he's a year old. It's absolutely mad. And Charlie will be going, oh Like, he's a year old. It's absolutely mad. And Charlie would be going, oh, Dad, Pip's pushed me. Pip's pushed me. Pip is...

No, it's not. Pip is short for Philip, but he's not a Philip. He's a Pip. That's what we call him. But he is, yeah, really, really physical, really. And already you can see the difference, how quickly these things sort of, like, their personality comes out so early.

Are you worried he's going to be bullying Charlie within years? I don't think he'll be bullying, but I think he'll be, he'll be like the heavy, he'll be the sort of the tough one, I think, in school that looks after his brother who's two years older than him. I think that's going to be it. His brother is in year 11, calling on his brother who's in year 8. Yeah, exactly, yeah. My brother who's two years younger, he's going to sort you out. brother is in year 11 calling on his brother who's in year 8. Yeah, exactly, yeah. My brother, who's two years younger, he's going to sort you out.

But it's amazing how quickly these things come out. Now, I feel like we should discuss sleeping because that's kind of a big deal in your life, or isn't, as the case may be. How bad is Charlie as a sleeper, or has he been? I don't think we've... I think i've had two good nights sleep three good nights sleep in three and a half years i think that is about right is that including not including going away working away from home and i've discounted the couple of times we've been away

and yeah we've you know yeah yeah take that as a given but actually that's annoyingly isn't taking it as a given because i've got in such into such a rhythm of waking up five or six times in a night that even when we stay in a hotel together i wake up five or six times in a night because my mind is now oh no so it's really bad yeah so what's this because he's three was he three and a three and a half now so what's the situation currently what's the sleep pattern like now situation currently so occasionally we'll get two or three days of good sleep three some of that but that never coincides with younger brother sleeping well as well that's another point we'll come to is younger brother isn't sleeping particularly well either but charlie will for two months three month periods have really bad sleeping where he'll be up maybe four times in a night you then add the brother who'll

also be up three times so it's quite feasibly be up seven or eight times in a night across them at which point i would say it's not it's not a night of sleep anymore it's not what is that i don't know what that is i mean i'm having like 15 minute chunks at best i'm not going into deep sleep and then i'm hearing that awful, you know, that white noise, that some noise that comes on on the monitor before you hear the crying. It's a eerie wind noise.

And you know something's going to happen. Either way, it's woken me up. Whether it's spirals or it's nothing. It's done the job. I'm up. Well done. Whatever i'm up well done whatever you rolled over you or you're about to cry either way you've ruined that what could have been 40 minutes of sleep so you see these boys and i wake there and i'm going what's this going to be is it going to be the usual and of course it normally is the usual which means I go in to see Charlie. Charlie doesn't want to see me. So me going in makes the situation worse.

He gets quite loud and then he wakes his brother, Pip, who's upset. So he's going as well. Now they're both going in tandem. So Claire will come in and try and calm down Charlie. I'll have to go and do Pip. And just the whole thing's an absolute mayhem. And there's this merry-go-round of one waking up the other, round and round and round and round again. Now, he's always had problems like this from the very beginning. Like when he was a baby, it was exactly the same. He had like allergies and stuff.

He always had problems like this growing up. I think it's sort of like based in things when he was a young baby. But I can't remember. I think I can remember maybe two or three nights. I can actually, no, I can remember the nights when I have good nights, I've had a good night's sleep. So what would consist of good night's sleep? That is, yeah, that is quite bad.

What's a good night's sleep then? Just like, if he's had a good one, what would those two or three nights consist of? So, okay, so for me, a good night's sleep now, if Claire and I would turn to each other in the morning and say, oh, that was good. If, let's say we went to bed at 10, we woke up at midnight, then we woke up at 2, and then we woke up at 4.

If we woke up three, and maybe one other time, four times, three times, we would react like we'd won the World Cup in the morning. It would be an unbelievable celebration. Even now? cup in the morning like it would be unbelievable celebration even now yeah so so three wake-ups would be a cause for i can't believe what an incredible night that was like yeah so that would be proper joy yeah what now or back when they were little uh no now still now now still now yeah yeah yeah tom yeah i know i know but charlie's always had weird things like there was a long period for about five months when he was about one and a half where i could only get him to sleep by singing uh under pressure by queen

he must have been about two because he was saying the words he was just basically saying under he was trying to tell me what the song was so i'd have to sing this song under pressure looking down and me rubbing his back slowly he does bowie and freddie mercury all the parts but he's always had this... Would you do the bass bit? Because the bass bit's the most iconic. On your lips for a bit of banter.

But there's also things like, we've always had to... I remember when he was like, he really got obsessed with his football coach. He was called Coach Jason. Got really, really obsessed with this guy called Coach Jason. And another way we'd have to get him to sleep

was to reassure him that Coach Jason was also sleeping. So that happened for quite a while. So long conversations before bed. Oh, bless him. Just to let you know that Coach Jason is also asleep now. He's tucking himself into bed. Like, Coach Jason is, like, in his late 30s, and this was, like, 7 o'clock at night.

And I was trying to convince Charlie that this football coach is getting into bed, but all these weird things he'd have. It's very, very sweet. It's just a part of it. He's got an unusual child. He's, you know, it's just the way he is, but the sleep is still just terrible. Yeah. This is obviously it's quite extreme. I'd say your, your version of a good night is sort of like you'd have sort of early doors of sleep. So have you tried to speak to a sleep consultant or something to see what you can do?

Yeah, so we actually had a sleep consultant over last night, actually. We thought we've got to do something about this. Yeah. Yeah, so we did have someone over last night to try and help. But it's that trying to change their relationship with feeding and like pit for example he wakes up during the night and thinks he wants milk on a number of occasions right he doesn't so trying to help change that but um i i still sort of clingy on to the idea that the younger one is a good sleeper i can't josh always point

you always say to me josh that i constantly have have to say, it's going to be all right. It's fine. It's going to be all right. And you, it is what it is. It is what it is. And then you'll say to me, is it what it is?

Does it have to be what it is? But I would say for my, for me not to have a breakdown, it has to be okay. I have to say, it's going to be okay. What, I don't know what you expect me to go.

I can't just go, oh yeah, it's a disaster. It's never going to resolve itself. What sort of life do you... I don't know what you expect me to go. I can't just go, oh, yeah, it's a disaster. It's never going to resolve itself. No, no, I understand. I understand. They have to have some kind of thick person's hope that it's going to be all right, basically. I never realised how bad that was.

I knew, like, you know, Josh mentioned in the podcast, Tom's child doesn't sleep as, like, that well and stuff. But I didn't realise it was still now, like, three or four times a night. So a bad night is basically up every hour uh yes it would be yeah yeah that's that's about that's about right or and sometimes a number of times in the hour but then there'll be a portion later in the night for maybe three or four o'clock you might get a bigger wadge so um

yeah oh so consolidate his wake-ups into one exactly team. Exactly, yeah. One mega round. That's what you want. Like an omnibus. Can we do all these wake-ups in the first two hours? Let's get them all over with. Do six at the start and then we can sleep through. Well, that's a dream. But that is few and far between.

But the extent that we've gone to to try and stop him from waking is ridiculous We went on a family holiday To Norfolk last year And Charlie was sleeping In the room next to the toilet And so To make sure that we didn't wake him up By using the toilet during the night

We came to the decision, Claire and I To urinate in a bucket throughout the night By our bed So that's like Claire and I, to urinate in a bucket throughout the night by our bed. So that's like, we just thought, well, that's the only option, because otherwise he'll be up constantly. So that is what we did. That's what we did.

So you must have tried everything. What about the rub on the nose? People used to say, all you've got to do is rub them on the nose. Imagine if you haven't tried that, and tonight you rub them on the nose and they sleep for eight hours. But he gets so attached to things that he would then need that rub on the nose. This is the way it works,

is that he forms attachments to whatever you do. So that's the problem with trying things that he'll become too reliant on. This is why I ended up seeing him under pressure for six months, because that's what he needed. The thing is, you're so chirpy about it. But I find... It is what it is, Josh.

There's no other way. You've got to let your man have hope. I know. Don't talk him out of chirping. Don't go, oh, you should be more miserable about this. There have been times where Josh has been visibly annoyed at me for not being more annoyed. So when...

You've learnt to fight openly when me and you have been together at the last leg, because we write together. Sometimes you'll go, it's all right, Tom, you can't... It's OK for it not to be OK. I'm looking for some kind of fight. I'm looking for some... Exactly. But I just need...

I need to tell myself it's going to be okay because that's just what else, what else is there? How would you be in this situation, Rob? I mean, like I say, I think I'm a bit more Tom's side of things of trying to be positive and stuff

and just trying different techniques, but you hope they'll grow out of it. And three and a half is still fairly young. So you hope that you might turn a corner or something. Do you know what a real positive is? Your relationship is definitely going to last. Because if it hadn't gone in the last three and a half years, do you know what I mean?

That is the extreme a relationship could be put under. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or the argument is they're too tired to have an affair. Imagine that, I'm having an affair, who with anyone, don't touch me i'm here to sleep you can't you can't sneak out in the night and return because they're going to wake up and see that there's an empty space in the bed about seven to eight times during the night so yeah but no i i think i think i think i think it's uh it yeah you're you're doing it

i mean you know like he has he's an interesting chap, my little lad. He's kind of, he's a real, it's the same as me. He's a real worrier. So something will concern him and he'll obsess on it and he'll bring it up months later. So like, let's say he's watching a cartoon and someone has a worried face on it. He'll want to talk to me about it,

often like two in the morning, three in the morning, which is, he's very sort of empathetic, very sweet child, but he's also a worrier. And I think that's partly where this sleep comes from because he's worried about things in the night and blah, blah, blah, blah. And he wants to wake up and chat about things. If he knew what was going on globally at the moment,

if he understood the implications of the current international news, he'd be in serious trouble. He'd say goodbye to my 36 minutes of sleep. Yeah, exactly. Isn't there a piece of graffiti that worries him so you have to take a different route to nursery? Yeah, so this is mad.

This is on our road. There's a piece of sort of like... It looks... It's got brightly coloured spray paint graffiti. This face, which he calls the scary eyes, which is on someone's garage. It's quite a cool piece of art I guess but he's so worried about going past

this piece of graffiti that we can't walk up that road anymore despite the fact that is by far the quickest way to get to the main road and to get to nursery so it's said we have to go the most scenic route around east london you could possibly imagine it's mad which isn't that scenic in east london no it's not that scenic yeah that's yeah quite but and we we even have to drive down different

we can't go that way to the main road if he's in the car we have to go different routes what will he just get really upset then and cry and things yeah so he sometimes is willing to sort of close his eyes but his hands are his eyes and we sing a song silly eyes silly eyes all this sort of thing as he's going past which kind of makes him laugh smelly feet all this sort of nonsense but um most of the time he doesn't really want to go past it other times he'll want to sort of confront it it's kind of interesting how the mind of a child works there's fear is a strange thing there's there's part of them wants to approach it and deal with it so occasionally like oh can we go and see it there's a lot going on with him there and um which i also kind of admire because he is scared of that and sometimes

he does want to go and see it but it doesn't make our life unbelievably easy because we're having to take 52 left turns to get to where we i can see the end of our road i can see the main road from our road we just need to drive to it but instead we have to go past every other house with three mile radius last christmas you and rose kindly bought us a because i watched that documentary on Basquiat and you bought us obviously a print, not an original, of a piece of Basquiat art, which we've got up on our landing. There's a sort of scary face in the middle of it, which Charlie has now made me stick a post-it note over

with a smiley face over it. So I've had to draw a smiley face on a post-it note and stick it on this scary face, which is on the piece of art. So he obviously faces and things like this do sort of worry him. He's obviously very sort of like in tune to all that stuff, isn't he? Yeah, he is. It's just he's worried and fearful.

Because I don't know what age you can go to see like a child psychologist, I imagine, because if he's like that in the day, then it's obviously that's what's worrying him at night, isn't it? Keeping him up. It does feel like that must be the same thing as the sleep, right? Yeah, I think there's probably links there. But I mean, I think it also manifests itself in ways that are quite sweet. Like the nurseries say, whenever there's a child who looks a bit sad or whatever,

he will be very aware of it and want to go and tell someone, go and help. Or he's sort of very in tune with how people are reacting and what face they're showing. He'll be like, why is that man, why, why is that man, whatever. Why don't you just look really sad when you have to drive all round the hours just go really sad and see if he picks up on it if you look more sad

I've been telling you to be more sad about the sleep thing that's the solution are you empathetic or are you scared pick a fucking lane kid it's two quid a litre

of petrol here let us go the quick route home. We're losing money and time now, son. Oh, man. And so, did you... I mean, it's weird when I ask a question because I kind of almost... Yeah.

I almost know the answer. But, well, I'll just ask this question. How big's your car, Tom? Is that the question? I don't know. I'll tap you on the shoulder with it. You can tell me. So, what's your question?

no wonder you've got lower back pain Jesus no I was going to I was basically going to ask a question that led to you telling Rob that you went to see a sleep therapist no you went to see a feeding person after two weeks and you're so tired that you ended up...

Well, you tell Rob, because it's weird when you're interviewing someone and you know the answer. Well, this was a bad day anyway. Sounds like bloody Boris Johnson, a press conference with his appointed reporters. Yeah, lovely. Laura Koonsberg, more like Laura Conservative Party,

am I right? Is that something you do in the last week? Oh, Rob, that's nice. you're doing? That's nice. Is that good? That's good. Bloody BBC, eh? Whoever it is that we don't like now. British Broadcasting Conservatives, that's what I call them.

More like Sky Blur, more rather than Sky News, right guys? Sorry, Tom, carry on. No, I enjoyed it. It made me think and laugh. I like it. It's kind of an exciting place to be. Is this funny or not? I can't wait till this is over.

That's what I was thinking. I can't wait for him to stop doing this. So, yeah, I know what you're talking about. So that was a sort of weird week in general. Basically, Charlie had these sort of milk allergy sort of things. We thought he might have milk allergy. He wasn't had these sort of milk allergy sort of things he what we thought he might have milk allergy he wasn't my daughter had milk allergy she had to go on to formula that was lactose free for a bit yeah now we did milk ladder and she's all over the the uh the chocolate

now yes yeah yeah no there's no same here so charlie can have everything now but there was a point where they were trying to work out what's going on we'd been to uh uclh that day for a consultation and uh we'd been sat in the waiting room for ages and all the other parents left it'd be like three hours and there was a wendy house in there and i said to claire i was so bored do you want to get in the wendy house so claire got in the wendy house it's like there was no other adults in there at which point of course the doctor came out and called our names. So there was Claire sticking her head out the Wendy house. The reason I remember that is because that afternoon we went to see that,

yeah, we went to see a feeding consultant about his latch down in South London. And I was so stressed about going to see this person that I thought I was just going to, you know, I have no idea what's going on. I think I was quite anxious to be honest, as a parent when I just, you know, I have no idea what's going on. I think I was quite anxious, to be honest, as a parent,

when I first, after Charlie was first born. I wasn't really, I don't know how you'd describe it. I just don't think I quite understood what a huge change it was, to be perfectly honest. Yeah. And I remember you saying to me when I, when my daughter was a few weeks old no it must have been a few months old because we had the bouncer you know the classic

bouncer and at that time Claire was pregnant and you said so do you just like pop her in the bouncer and then you can just get on with work at the table and I thought oh my god oh my god this is going to be a huge shock to this your view that

they do eight hours in the bouncer in the day while you were tapping away at the table occasionally yeah basically do a nine to five in there uh no i i think i just hadn't really appreciated what it was and i remember that like on the day that he was born, it was great. It was wonderful, et cetera. But I also felt a real sort of... That et cetera is doing a lot of legwork in that sentence. But you know that's what I'm having... That was a classic. Did you actually enjoy it or was it a very horrible anxious time?

But you have to go, it was great, obviously, because that's what's expected, et cetera. The rocking back and forth, the crying inside, the worried look on your face, the helplessness, et cetera. The rocking back and forth, the crying inside, the worried look on your face, the helplessness, et cetera. It was a great day. As long as he's a good sleeper, then it's going to be fine. No, but I do remember that feeling of just this life being there and it being like, oh, this is this this is it now as in it's

it's it's kind of it's everything has changed in a way that i hadn't quite anticipated i think and i i felt very sort of almost it was like it reminded me of like that physical feeling of like a feeling of homesickness kind of weirdly when you're younger it's like a chest feeling of like i don't feel completely in control of this i may you know maybe lots of other people i think in a weird way i was given some advice before uh charlie was born which was when you first hold your child when it's first born you'll never feel a feeling of elation and it'll be like you're you're this is what and i kind of wish i hadn't been told that because i don't think that is necessarily the case for people um like i yeah i love my children so much they are just i know i know

but but they are they're they're i mean i'm very lucky to have them and i think they're wonderful i i really do but i wish i hadn't been told i wish i hadn't been told beforehand that i would on that moment on that day hold him and just feel nothing other than oh oh, great, you know, angels and all this sort of stuff singing. But it wasn't really what happened. I actually felt quite sort of anxious and kind of stressed. Yeah, I think that's a really bad thing to tell people because it feels like there's a pressure on it for you to live this moment in the way other people have lived it.

Yes. Which I just think is very unhealthy. You feel guilt if you don't feel happy, like you're bad and you don't care, but it not true you're just i think i think that's exactly it anyway um it felt like an elephant had landed on my to-do list like a big fucking wait fuck everything i've got so much to do now i remember that moment when i thought fuck this doesn't end do you know what i mean yeah like everything else i've had in my life before that is a lot of work or it is stressful or it is difficult i've gone well at least in three months that will have ended or at least edinburgh is 26 days yeah um but this is forever this is it

yeah yeah yeah anyway but i love my kids you don't have to say that josh you don't have to after that line i do think josh had to after that line to be fair tom i remember two weeks in coming back and i've been at work doing last leg or something i got back at like 6 p.m and it was like straight in and i had no sleep and i was feeling very very low and i remember my mother-in-law saying to me the thing you've got to remember is you're only ever as happy as your unhappiest child and i thought why are you saying this to me at this moment this is not what i need at this moment why didn't you say that to me 10 months ago anyway you remember josh my children are very happy and so am i now you know rose had like admittedly you'd found the first sort of four months kind of quite stressful or whatever it was.

Charlie was born like five months in or whatever. And we went to your house and we'd had dinner with you. And you and Rose told us for about half an hour how stressful it all was. And like, it never ends. The sleep is terrible, et cetera, et cetera. Like the longest tirade of don't do this. Just don't do this. And ironically, they underplayed it for you. Well, it ended with us going, well, actually, we've got some news. And that's when we told you that we were expecting a child.

Oh, is that what you told them? Oh, no. But it was 45 minutes of the most. Basically, some of the descriptions were horrific. What we were. Oh, OK, OK, okay okay okay anyway just to wrap up the story the point is i was quite stressed at the beginning i went to see this rather posh sleep consultant and midway through the appointment with her she noticed i was wearing two left shoes that's what the story is i was wearing two mike cortez's left feet on my... And I have never been so embarrassed.

And she gave me a look and said, there's a reason your child is not feeding. It's because you're an idiot. You're an idiot, that's why. My moments I remember from my first year, yeah, the two left shoes and also being at your london wedding josh with charlie now remembering that charlie's a warrior walking up to a little park near it and seeing a pigeon saying to charlie oh look at the pigeon should we go and see that pigeon and walking across and and the pigeon was lacking its head.

Its head had come off. There was literally no sign of a head. But that sticks with me as a really early memory of bad parenting, basically. And trying to usher Charlie away. That would be really bad if you decapitated the pigeon yourself and lay it there to surprise him. That would be bad parenting.

And so this is a lesson about life and death. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you... You're a very positive person. I actually have never really properly asked you about this, but, like, I don't see you and Claire arguing much, even in these heightened kind of emotional situations. Is that because you've got to be positive in all situations, right? Yeah.

So, I mean, obviously you have points where you're stressed and you're maybe sort of shorter than you should be or what it happens to be. But it's all, we resolve things very, very quickly and we don't let things linger or hang. So, yeah, we don't really. So nothing really, never really spirals into an argument at all.

I mean, it would be lying to say that there aren't moments where you're both, you're exhausted, it's four in the morning, you're not both delighted and going, I know we're both awake, but at least we can snog. We're not like like that it's kind of weird sort of yeah we're stressed oh my god the thought of me telling that to lou look we're up anyway fancy a bit do email in if you're if you're the kind of couple who when woken by a child in the middle of the

night takes the opportunity to have sex because i don't believe that after you've settled the baby back to sleep not yeah yeah of course to the chorus of them crying that i don't want that email i think you should report yourself take yourself to the police my eldest was a bit of a a warrior sometimes i wouldn't say i wouldn't say to to to that extreme of the the new route to school but there's certain things but like she's got a little bit better with her younger sister come she's a little bit more like yours where a little bit more like a throw herself in and to things and actually it brings the older one out of their shell a little bit because they and also you think i was quite was quite anxious for our firstborn i think they do pick up on it a little bit but the second one obviously you're more relaxed for they sometimes

bring it out their shell because if she goes well i'll do that then the older one goes well i should be asked to do that because she's younger than me and she's doing it so it might sort of they might help each other out a little bit if you know what i mean no i think i think that's definitely the case and i think that's true about the experience of not being less anxious second time around i mean this last year has gone i can't believe that our one year old is now one i can't i can't believe that it's gone so fast but the experience the first time time round is those weeks can feel very slow. Especially as you were in lockdown, wasn't you? So he wouldn't have met many.

Two years, that's quite an important time, isn't it? From the age of one to three. Those two years are very important, aren't they? With socialising and stuff and groups and play. Yeah, so a lot of that wasn't there. And then you had periods where you had to self-isolate for like 14 days i think they had to do that like three times with charlie and all these sort of things and those are quite strange experiences early on but uh but i do i do think the second time around is sort of it

goes much quicker because i remember you'd count down the days oh if we can make it to three weeks all this sort of stuff when we get to a month things will be much easier all that sort of stuff the first time do you do you have do you have your kids occasionally they'll sort of if they're annoyed at you they'll it's that well we're not friends anymore i don't love you there's all this sort of stuff oh yeah yeah he was saying the other day a bedtime like a week ago he wanted claire to do it but claire was upstairs with pip and i was doing his bedtime and he was saying no daddy you know

I don't want you here I'm going to put you in the neighbour's garden and he kept saying that I'm going to put you in the neighbour's garden which is quite I don't know if that's

at least I'll be close by I suppose that's quite sweet okay you should I'll drive past a graffiti to complain about get back in his head already that testing that pushing isn't it

yeah yeah I think I'm alright with it do you know the problem with it now is when she says stuff like, you're not my best friend anymore, it's quite funny. Yeah, it is. So it's mainly trying to keep a straight face because I know it's very serious for her.

But for me, I'm like, she sounds like such an idiot that I do find it quite funny because it's like, it's so she's, I don't know. There's something about the, how dramatic it is. The slightly weird phrasing, the fact she's decided that that's the thing that's going to hurt me. It's difficult for me to keep a straight face in that situation.

Does that make me a monster? No, I think it's got, I think, I think you have to accept because you're not a friend anymore. And I go, okay, yeah,

friends come and go. Sometimes you've got friends. Sometimes you haven't. There'll be new ones around the court and try and make it more flippant right because it means so much when they're little and because because that's what that's what i because when we my daughter sometimes struggles to sleep and gets a bit like oh i'm having i'll have bad dreams i'll have nightmares and all that kind of stuff but i used to go a bit like bit like you know really sort of like a woke parent and be like let's talk it through yeah so how do

you feel but actually sometimes you're better off just going, just fucking ignore it. Like you don't, you can over, like especially with anxiety, personally, if I talk about something for ages, it makes it worse. I just need to get on with it and do it. So I think sometimes you can get yourself

in a worse position by talking about it too much and allowing it to fester because you sort of legitimize it then. And that's what we found. And then recently she said, oh, I can't go to sleep because my brain's telling me this my brain and i went that voice in your head she was like you went just ignore it it's just a suggestion just ignore it it's just being silly it's stupid ignore it and then and try and go down that route rather than going and trying to find like the root cause of why there's that voice

you know what i mean that's that's otherwise you turn into me otherwise you turn into me constantly analyzing every moment yeah for shame or worry for their whole life well that's what i was doing i was going but what why do you feel like that what's happening just like don't you stop searching for an answer and just sort of try and sort of shut it down or distract from it like when my i was talking before my daughter said i don't care about you and wouldn't hold my hand and then i was just saying like, OK, OK, they don't hold my hand and that's fine. And now she started holding my hand. I'm holding your hand, but with my sleeve, not my hand. And I was like, OK, yeah, fine. Let's do that if you want. And it actually had more of an impact than talking about it.

You know, yeah, I love I love it when kids come up with those sort of those loophole things. We were doing Charlie's potty training a little while ago, and we did one of those sort of things where you get, if you do it five times, you get five stickers and you've got to get a magazine from the shop at the top of the road. So we put this poster on the wall, and every time he got five stickers, he'd get a magazine, basically. And then I noticed he was breaking up one single toilet stop

into a number as a way of getting quite a few stars. So he's causing himself some kind of long-term piles or something by doing that kind of... No, no, he'd go and do a bit of a wee or whatever he was doing, and then he'd come to me and he'd go, can I have a star? And I'd go, yeah. And then he'd go and finish the wee, and he'd come back and get a second star. The bladder control of a three-year-old, that is incredible.

It is, yeah, it's amazing. When does he start school, Tom? Is it this September or next September? He starts in September, this September, yeah, yeah. Is he excited about that or is he a bit worried? How do you feel about him going to big school? He's feeling okay. I mean, there's friends from his nursery that are going.

That's good. And he's quite an... I suppose your crime is quite eccentric, would you, Josh? He's quite an unusual sort of child. He's very sort of independent and always wanted to play his own little game, stuff like this. But he's really getting a good friendship group now as well,

which is lovely. So it's kind of... Because you worry, oh, well, maybe he'll be on his own a little bit but it's really not proving to be that case and it's i think it's providing him he's really pleased his friends are going there and uh he's excited about it yeah he is i i'm yeah i'm excited about it as well i'm quite nervous i'm very i'm very nervous about my daughter going to school yeah yeah i find it very stressful the thought of like that first day or the drop off i think it's probably much bigger in my head than it is

in hers i mean they'll totally feed off you me and lou had a conversation of just like just don't just don't keep talking don't change just be very calm and let it just let it go don't because you you can be like oh no let me suit uniform. And they feed off your stress. Yeah. A hundred percent. So I think the key, the best thing you can do is try and be calm within yourself. I've barely mentioned it to her,

but that's because I'm trying to bury it down deep inside my own worries. You've gone too far the other way. I've gone too far the other way. So how calm do you mean? Do you mean sort of like barely giving them a nod at the school gate when you drop them off the first day? No, no, not at all. Not at all.

But it's that sort of like, don't grab, when you're walking in, don't grab their hand and walk them in unless they want to grab your hand. You know what I mean? Stuff like that. Don't be there for them, but don't be like, oh, and then like, and then me and Lou were like, well, don't go this way. We're sort of bickering because we're stressed about our... And it isn't our kids starting school.

It's our baby being a grown-up, becoming a girl, a proper kid. That's what is distressed. Not that she's got to sit in a room with a group of kids in all the same clothes, which essentially is what it is, isn't it? She's going to sit in a room with loads of other kids her age, which will be fun, in the same clothes

and be excited and love it. But we were telling each other, like, no, no, no, we're giving each other a look. Now, we're getting stressed because of something else and then they'll pick up on that kind of thing. But, yeah, not just, like, launch them out of the car and speed off listening to 80s music. Sayonara.

You're on your own now, mate. Yeah, of course. I mean, because my memory of primary school was a joy to me. I loved primary school. Secondary school was the one. Secondary school's the one you want to worry about. You think this is bad, mate? That can be really difficult.

I once caught my reflection, Josh, in year 10 in a mirror in the toilets and my spots were so bad that I just walked home. I just left. I just went home. Oh, Tom. I was like, I can't be around like this. I'm just going to walk home. So that's what I did.

Got back on the bus. Went all the way back home. Oh, no. Hit the top of Banner downhill and went home at half three. That's true. Anyway, it is what it was. Skyby. Skyby.

It's remarkable how your son's like this, a little bit nervous of things. It's mad. Can't see where it's come from. It's really bold out of the blue. sons like this a little bit nervous of things do you feel like he's you and pip is claire uh yes i do yeah i do i think uh charlie's so much like me yeah he thinks about things a lot and kind of you were saying there josh about how you sort of overanalyze things. I definitely have that. I like, sometimes I really stress I have to,

as you know, I lie down in the shower. This is my thing. I'll put the shower on and I'll lie down in the shower and I'll sort of like go over everything that's sort of worried me. But I do hope I'm not- Face down or face up? It depends how bad the day's been, Rob, to be honest.

It's increasingly face down. it depends how bad the day's been Rob to be honest it's with a bargain he's increasingly face down yeah but but I I would say that I I would like to think

I'm not imparting this on him I actively am not trying to be worried I'm not like that I'm not really oh no of course but but it's

it's interesting that he does still he has those those traits and you see them but Pip is far more just like stubborn and kind of has these,

you know, and Claire has these traits that she would admit. So it's kind of, yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting. But you know what? I love them both. I love them both. You know that. Well, no, we do that.

Me and Lou have been trying to do that. Like when you see spiders in the house and Lou's like, like that. And then like the kids start going, like that. And I'm like, Lou, if you didn't scream, they wouldn't have screamed there. That is, they are literally copying your scream. Yeah, yeah.

So Charlie's now freaked out with the butterflies we were talking about earlier at London Zoo because Claire has a genuine phobia of butterflies, tried to deal with it and take him through it and just failed completely, just freaked out when these monarchs were landing on her or whatever. And he's now, Charlie's like, oh God, and i'm trying to go these things are small they can't hurt you but he's he's seen claire react like yeah a lion has gone in many ways when you're saying they're

small and can't hurt you you're undermining his mum craig but you've made the decision it's more important that he's not scared of butterflies, then he respects his mum. That's the decision he made there. Yeah, but it's butterflies, isn't it? I mean, come on. Well, I've had to do that with theme parks and stuff like that and rides. I hate any rides like that, but they want to go on stuff.

So it's only the little dragon ride at Legoland, but that was a huge deal for me. And the kids were like, bold on it, didn't give a shit. And I'm like, oh yeah, next one. And I'm like hyperventilating, trying to find an asthma pump. Going, oh my God, I've done the dragon ride dragon ride it's so pathetic but trying to hold it together

so much but like then you've got me you're supposed to be open and honest with your kids but then also i'm completely bottling it up and petrified going on this fucking ride like it can't be the right thing to do can it have you um when we talk about earlier about worry can i ask you something if you've i don't know if either of you have done this. When you're reading stories to your kids, if there's bits in there that... Do you sort of redact parts of the story? If there are bits that are sort of worrying about this? Yeah.

I'm not alone in that, am I? You know those ones you get where it's like famous people? So it's like inspirational famous people. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like a classic Christmas gift you'd receive. Yes. So we've got the Ella Fitzgerald one. Okay.

Where her mum is killed in a road accident. Oh, God. And then she's put into a home for orphans, and then they treat her really badly, so she leaves. And so that is a straight... So what do you skip to? I'd been great at jazz singing. That's the main body of the book.

But yeah. Yeah, so it's with Stickman. Stickman's the one with us. So there's a bit where Stickman's frozen in the snow, which we can't read. Another bit where he's put in a grate. So all these bits are skipped. You know them stories about people?

We've got that Amelia Earhart one because it's about a lot of them about famous women. Oh yeah, you know, we've got that Amelia Earhart one, because it's about, a lot of them are about like famous women. Oh yeah, she dies. Yeah, so she dies, but the whole thing's about how she's an amazing pilot and stuff like that, but she dies flying the fucking plane. So how good is she? I don't know.

Do you know what I mean? You had one job, Amelia. It's good that she's trying to go around the world in one go. It's a fair play. But you sort of think, oh, right, okay. So she was really sick, but she didn't do it. That's the real lesson.

Never dream. Never dream. Basically what they need, they need kids' books. Ultimately, it's depending on what your child's like. So it can be a really soft ending. Also known as propaganda. Let's just change it to what feels best. And everything was all okay.

You know, you could have stick man on a pyre of sort of burning sticks at the end, losing all his friends. But let's say it falling in a bit of water, that's not too bad, is it, falling in a bit of water? That's what happened to Amelia Earhart, to be fair. Depends on the height, doesn't it? There you go.

As a man, Tom, that struggles to criticise, which is an admirable trait, I think you'll struggle with our final question, which is why I'm so excited about asking it. Okay, yeah. Which is, we always like to end by asking, based on Matthew Crosby, his wife listens to the podcast so he gave him the opportunity to say something his wife does that annoys him that he hasn't said to her what one

thing does claire do does claire listen as a parent yes he does he does yeah claire loves it um what one thing does claire do that annoys me i well I I'm generally I'm struggling to think of um okay I've got it I've got it I do have the thing I do have the thing it's not really a noise but this is definitely true that when we are when we go out to a social thing together as parents uh I'm I'm always the one who's entertaining the children. But I don't just mean my children. I mean, it seems to be that I'm lumbered with lots and lots of children when we go to a thing.

So we went out for Sunday lunch maybe a fortnight ago with some people. And then there was a point at the end where I was down one end of the table. You know, like at a wedding, you have a kid's table. It was me and six children and someone's baby. I didn't even know who the baby was. There was a baby with us

and everyone else was getting pissed at the other end of the table. Like slapping each other's backs and we were well over time and I'm playing sort of match the farmyard animals. Oh, that is annoying, isn't it?

Yeah. So that would be it. But then it doesn't really annoy me, annoy me, annoy annoy me is that Claire's fault? no so to be honest I don't think it is I think that's more on me so I don't think that's even her the question should be what sort of

part of my personality annoys me most and that would be my absolute failure desperation to please children yeah yeah yeah. But, you know, it is what it is. But I wouldn't say it really is. I sometimes see, if I'm in a social situation where I can't be bothered,

and there's kids, I sometimes see entertaining the kids as a really good out. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But on other times, you'll just be at drinks in an afternoon, and you've got a two-year-old and they just want to push a pram up and down a stair for an hour inside while everyone's outside at a barbecue.

That is the slowest time ever moves. No, no, but that's good though if you don't want to be with the other people. If you don't want to be the other people, that's the perfect job. If you don't want to be there, it's great. Yes. If you do want to be there, it's heartbreaking.

You can just see in the distance everyone having a wonderful time through the kind of French doors. You can see they're all partying away in the garden. They're all kissing and dancing. Trying to set their child falling over. Yeah, no, definitely. I missed the first goal, Luke Shaw's goal in the final, in the Euros final

because I was upstairs I've got it on catch up spoiler alert I've got that on catch up please don't yeah yeah yeah I haven't watched the final yet I'm waiting for it

so you missed it you were too drunk to remember it Rob I missed it I was upstairs this is my own child of course but upstairs

trying to sort of settle Pip and get Pip back to sleep of course I was trying to get one of my children to sleep when the one moment of joy in 90 minutes was occurring but uh yes you got did you got there back in time for the penalties i did yeah yeah should have stayed up there but uh yeah oh cheers

tom it's been amazing thank you so much absolute pleasure hopefully you get some do you know what i reckon you're one good sleep away from it just clicking. Yes. Yeah, yeah. In the one plus thing from Charlie this morning, he did a poo in the potty this morning, pointed it and said, look, it's a number seven. So he's learning his numbers and he looked at it and it was the shape of a seven. Oh, that's good.

So something's happening. So he's clearly bright. He thought it looked like a number seven. That wasn't his way of saying a number one or a number two. No, it was a number seven. It looked exactly like a number seven. He was correct. So he may not be sleeping, but he knows his numbers.

So that's good. That's good. He can shit up to ten. You don't want to cling on to it. His hero is quite tricky. His hero is quite tricky. Tom Crane.

That isn't it. That's a story, isn't it? I can't believe his kid doesn't... The sleep situation at three and a half. Poor Claire and Tom. It's insane, isn't it?

It is so extreme. You know when you're like, I've just got to get to six months. Imagine I've just got to get to four. Four years, just four years. I know exactly what my dad would have done with me with that graffiti. He would have gone, oh, fucking hell, and just drove past it. And then I would have immediately cried. And then he would have had to drive the long way forever.

And then my mum would have told him off. It's a really difficult... I say my dad,. And then I would have immediately cried, and then he would have had to drive the long way forever, and then my mum would have told him off. It's a really difficult... I'd say my dad, that's what I would have done. Yeah, it's a really difficult one to know whether you should go, oh, just man up, I'm not going to be your graffiti avoider. I know that, like, the other day when we were going out, my daughter wanted to take her toy pram. And for me, I was just like,

Rose was like, she's absolutely not taking it. We'll end up carrying it around. And I was going, oh God, she's going to cry when we tell her. And if Rose hadn't been there, that pram was 100% coming with us. And I was 100% carrying it around all day just to avoid her crying. And then Rose put her foot down.

We didn't take the pram. And she'd forgotten about it literally by the time we were in the car. Yeah, that's the thing. I think you can overdo it or underdo it. But it's difficult. It's hard to know. And everyone's different. But yeah, Jesus Christ.

It's a lot of waking up. I've just got a text from Claire, Tom's girlfriend, that says, I can't believe Tom dodged the what annoys you most about Claire question. Poor. She must have been listening at the door. Or maybe. You can hear everything in the house. No wonder they're not fucking sleeping.

Oh, by the way, they live in one big room. One big room on the middle of a roundabout. With huge windows. It's the sunbanks all day. They live at Clackett Lane. They live at Clackett Lane Motorway Services off the M25. No, that was great, though. Good lad, Tom.

Thank you to Tom. Thank you to everyone for listening. And we will see you on... Tuesday. Tuesday.