Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S05 EP22: Denise Welch

Episode Date: October 7, 2022

Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant actress, author and broadcaster - Denise Welch. Unbreakable is available to watch on BBC iPlayer. Thanks, Rob + Josh. BIG NEWS.... we're writing a book!  ⭐ All the stories we can’t tell on the podcast – in depth. ⭐ What it’s like to raise a stiff neck and a loose neck – straight from the horse’s mouth (our parents) ⭐ And.. the BIGGEST REQUEST WE’VE EVER HAD FOR THE PODCAST… Hearing from our wives, Rose & Lou. They’ve got a chapter each and YOU can submit your burning questions to them...   [e-mail] What's it really like to be a parent? And how come no one ever warned Rob or Josh of the sheer mind-bending, world-altering, sleep-depriving, sick-covering, tear-inducing, snot-wiping, bore-inspiring, 4am-relationship-straining brutality of it all? And if they did, why can't they remember it (or remember anything else, for that matter)? And just when they thought it couldn't get any harder, why didn't anyone warn them about the slices of unmatched euphoric joy and pride that occasionally come piercing through, drenching you in unbridled happiness in much the same way a badly burped baby drenches you in milk-sick? Join Josh and Rob as they share the challenges and madness of their parenting journeys with lashings of empathy and extra helpings of laughs. Filled with all the things they never tell you at antenatal classes, Parenting Hell is a beguiling mixture of humour, rumination and conversation for prospective parents, new parents, old parents and never-to-be parents alike. Find out everything you need to know, including how you could win a pair of tickets to the Parenting Hell LIVE tour & an overnight stay in London here:  https://www.bit.ly/ParentingHellBook We're going on tour!! Fancy seeing the podcast live in some of the best venues in the UK? Of course you do, you're not made of stone! Tickets available now on the dates and at the venues below. We can't wait to see you there... ON SALE NOW  14th April 2023 - Manchester AO Arena 19th April 2023 - Nottingham 20th April 2023 - Cardiff  21st April 2023 - London (The O2) 23rd April 2023 - London (Wembley) 28th April 2023 - Birmingham Utilita Arena  If you want to get in touch with the show here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] TWITTER: @parenting_hell INSTAGRAM: @parentinghell A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willicombe. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with your tips, advice and, of course, tales of parenting woe.

Because, let's be honest, there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing. Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hell with... Can you say Rob Beckett? Rob Beckett. Rob Beckett. Rob Beckett. Okay. And Josh Whittacombe.

Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe.

Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe.

Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Josh Whittacombe. Yeah, thanks, Michael. Hello, this is Teddy, who has just turned three attempting to say your names, though his favourite word at the minute is boobies. And no matter what, we can't get him to stop saying it. It never changes.

His dad finds it hysterical and cannot stop laughing when he says it, which has now led to him telling his nursery teachers that daddy loves boobies. Oh, lovely stuff. Thanks, Michael. Are they from the Wirral? They are from Liverpool. And that was Katie. That was close, wasn't it? That was close. Should have just gone stuff. Thanks, Michael. Are they from the Wirral? They are from Liverpool. That was KT. That was close, wasn't it? That was close. Should have just gone Liverpool. Thanks, Michael. You can stand down now and I'll explain to the listeners why Josh has gone. Thanks. So, yeah, I fired him. It's over. No, I'm joking.

Basically, Josh has had an absolute nightmare. We are recording this the day before the Deniseise welsh episode goes out we normally do a little 10 minute intro little chat see how we're getting on do some correspondence however josh has had a bit of a nightmare i don't think rose is very well and he was at the hospital with the kids in the middle of the night everyone's okay but he's absolutely knackered and he's looking after two children while rose is in bed but he has sent a couple of voice notes to let us know what's going on. So we can listen to these together.

I've not heard any of these. One of them's three minutes 19, and one of them is one minute 55, and one of them's one second, which must be an error, but I'll play the three minute, let's go. Hello guys, long time listener, first time caller. Good stuff. What a f-ing a night so tired uh i'll quickly take you through

it as to why um i can't be with you before we carry on he sounds broken doesn't he uh hopefully it's nothing too bleak um oh no the gardener's here making noise oh for sake michael might be able to play this in without gardener noise, if we're lucky. Get some porridge. Not for myself. So, Rose is ill. Because my daughter's been ill and off school on Tuesday. Rose has caught it.

Oh, no. So, Rose goes to bed at 9pm. Not at all well. And then I go to bed at half eleven. Can't get to sleep. Like, totally wired. Terrible sleep at the moment. Just like this is a nightmare.

This is a living nightmare. I'm going to be lying in bed all night. Full panic mode. Exactly what you don't need to get to sleep. 1am. son wakes up and crying and uh go in we go in because he won't settle and um give him uh i go in because rose is obviously stuck in bed because she's just so unwell. Go in and give him ibuprofen. Come out. He's far worse.

He's far worse. Why am I laughing? Us going in has really woken him up. By house, I mean me. He's absolutely going mental. And he won't go to sleep at all. Proper. I'm so tired. I can't even remember what that thing's called,

where children don't want to be without you all of a sudden at night time. That thing. Anyway, go in after a bit, check his temperature. It's 34, which is low. I didn't know it went low. Sorry to interrupt, listeners, but I didn't know it went that low. Hopefully he's all right. I mean, I've not listened to these.

This could be awful. I've laughed so far, but I don't know why I'm laughing. I feel mean. But it is funny, isn't it, when he's like this? Sorry, Josh. Which is bad news. Google it. Bad news.

Very bad news. Your child should not have a low temperature this could be hypothermia or sepsis or sepsis or whatever it's called which i i see as a negative full panic mode sets in uh well no in fact what you've got to do i suppose in that situation i think we're going to take him to hospital obviously before that presume the uh temperature thing's not working do it on us it's totally fine change the batteries do it on him again he's still down to 34.2 so i have to drive him to the hospital i order a cab because you can't park at the hospital for more than an hour and it takes forever at the hospital oh my god i've done two and a half minutes. You're not going to have to do anything this morning, Rob. And then...

Cab. We managed to get one four minutes away. Then it abandons us. I just think I'm just going to have to drive. Rose is out of bed by this point because even though she's very ill, the panic's taken over. I take her out.

Drive her to the hospital. Park up. You get an hour's parking, I'm like, this is a, I'm just gonna have to get a ticket here. Go in, A&E, et cetera, et cetera, get through to the doctor after about 10, 15 minutes, they talk to someone, she tells his temperature, obviously he's fine. 36.5. Oh, wait, here comes my daughter. I'll send another one in a bit. 36.5. Long story short, Josh's kid had a temperature of 34. He rushed and went to hospital in a panic,

and it was 36 and absolutely fine, which definitely sounds like something Josh would do. Here's the next voice note. Can't even remember where I got to. Oh, I think think so they check him straight away his temperature's fine his oxygen levels are fine his heart rate's fine i don't know what's happened obviously we have got a faulty thing or he's just improved or whatever anyway good news i leave well within my hours parking. Straight out of there. 15 minutes in the hospital.

Drive back. By this point it's about 2, 2.30 maybe. Somehow. And so then he won't go back to sleep. Then, little aside, of course he won't go back to sleep. You've just taken him to the fucking hospital for no reason Well, a reason, but it turned out not a reason I'm not being mean, Josh The person who organised my daughter's party

With Texas at 2.30 in the morning With planning ideas He can't sleep So he's decided to do that And, um The party planners dropped a message at 2.30am East London's mental You wouldn't get that in Zone 5 Office hours, 9 till 6 The party planners dropped a message at 10.30am. East London's mental mate.

You wouldn't get that in Zone 5. Office hours, 9 till 6. I tell you what, he was very surprised when we were applying. We were chatting about the party and we were getting very taxed. My son takes another hour to get to sleep. By this point, I am exhausted. Anyway, good news. My sleep insomnia is totally gone. All I needed to do, it turns out, was take my son to the hospital. And by then I'll be so tired, I'll just go straight to sleep. So I was out like a bloody light at half three.

I put court at about seven. And on with the day. And now we've got to work out how we've got to take our cat to get have kidneys flushed if you remember exactly the same time as the school run which would have been fine but rose is struggling to get out of bed because she's in such a bad way because she didn't have any recovery time because she was ill so i've got to work out how to deal with this this morning. They're both due at kidney flushing and school in opposite directions, both at 9.30, the cat and the daughter. Bye. Oh, and buy the book. I'll tell you what, if that was my cat, that kidney would not be getting flushed.

So that's been Josh Whacombe's evening. So he couldn't make 8am to do this record, so I'm here. But no, bottom line is, if you do get your own temperature checker, make sure it works. I don't know if he did his own ear before he went to the hospital. That would have been my first thought. Anyway, so Josh has gone completely broken, it sounds, which is terrible for him. Great for us. So, yeah, that's why he can't be here.

So it's just me now. Right, Michael, should I introduce the episode? Yes, please. Okay, listeners, we have Denise Welch on today. This is a really, really interesting chat, really funny as well. Denise Welch is an absolute – me and Josh will talk about it afterwards. She just nails it. She's really funny, but also she's got lots to say and a bit of a trigger warning. There's a lot of chat about depression and especially postnatal depression. And Denise

goes into quite a lot of detail, which is really interesting. She's really funny about it, but it's quite a serious topic at times. But it's a really interesting story, Denise, because she was an addict at one point, and then she met her current husband lincoln who appears on unbreakable um on bbc this new the new show i'm presenting about couples and they met at like 6 a.m off their head in a club and then got sober together and they've not touched anything since and i i was a bit i preconceived ideas of denise welch before i did this program as the sort of you know you know opinionated very loud person on Loose Women but actually she's one of the most so kind and very like kind-hearted and

emotional people and it's so interesting seeing her with Lincoln and how they sort of look after each other because they've obviously both been through quite a lot and they're amazing on the show and she's got such an amazing story when you consider all the stuff she talks about and then her son as her sons have gone on to be actors and you know the lead singer of the 1975 it's really interesting chat and i hope you enjoy it and here is denise welsh you know what michael i think we could get rid of josh and do it ourselves if you had a couple of kids i'm just not willing to make that sacrifice sorry mate so you'd be willing to sort of do it and absolutely jib Josh out in a massive sort of cash grab

where we literally lose a person and just split it two ways. However, even with all those benefits, you still can't bring yourself to have a child. I'd probably text Ellis and see if he'd do it for a day rate and then you and I carve the rest up. Well, you know, if he don't show on Tuesday, then it's something to think about, isn't it, Michael? Only joking, Josh. Love you.

I hope everyone feels better soon and stop checking temperatures in the middle of the night and going to the hospital. Right. Here's Denise Welch. Welcome to the show, Denise Welch. We're very excited to have you on, Denise. Very excited. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. Well, because Denise, I've always liked you from afar without

sounding like a stalker. That's weird. That's a weird start to the interview. I've always been interested in you from afar. But we met on Unbreakable, the new BBC One show starting 6th of October where I'm the host with some dating and relationships experts

and then we have a series of celebrities with their real life partners on the show, staying in a huge country house, competing for the title of Unbreakable Couple. It was it's really well put together. And because you don't know, you know, if you if you take a leap into this kind of sort of like hybrid reality sort of show, you know, everyone talks about the editing and you have no idea how they're going to portray you. But actually the first episode is funny. But when Simon tells his story, you could hear a pin drop, you know?

So I think it's going to have lots of hysterically funny moments, but lots of moving moments as well. Yeah, no, it's basically a combination. You'll love it, Josh, of like, I'm a celebrity. I'm going to be honest with you, I'm very excited. It's I'm a celebrity, big brother and all-star Mr. and mr and mrs combined so it's really fun and silly but then you find it bonus of rob beckett well yeah dressed like a swedish youtuber kind of everything i suppose but there you go right let's get let's go on to kids to denise how many children have you got

what's your child set up my child set up is two biological and one beloved stepson. So I've got Matty, who is 33. I've got Louis, who is 21. And we have Louis, who is 30, who is Lincoln's son. Lincoln was four when he had Louis. And Louis is now about to give us our first grandchild. Oh, wow. Very exciting. How are you looking forward to that?

Well, we are really looking forward to it. I mean, I've sort of given up on my own. I mean, you know, well, we were quite close to it at one point with Matty and then not. Louis is only 21. So please, obviously, I don't want any from him just now. We're absolutely thrilled. I mean, the only thing is, is there's going to be

fighting over it because in the days of blended families, they've got about, they've got all, you know, he's got Lincoln and me, then he's got his mum, Bev, then he's got Lizzie's parents. So you have to sort of do a three or a four way split these days. But they live in Hertfordshire, we live here, but we want to be as hands on as we can. I'm very excited. So where do you live today? Well, we live between Cheshire and London. So we've got a place in London and we live in Cheshire. So I'm from Newcastle, which is where, so when I had Matty, I was living in London. That's where we had Matthew. So I was in a very then happy marriage with my husband, Tim Healy. We're still very, very good friends to this day.

And I had got an incredibly strong homing instinct when I was pregnant. Tim is a Geordie. He was a very successful actor. And that was the days when people said actors had to live in London. They don't now. This is how we do castings, like this now. But you did have to. But obviously, Tim was respected enough. And I wanted to move back to the northeast. So we went back, got a lovely home up there near all our family. But I had Matthew in London after a 42-hour fucking labour. Oh, my God. Please excuse me. Bloody hell.

Natural childbirth. No drugs or anything? No. And when I was, to be honest, I was going to, I was married to a complete champagne socialist Tim. And we were going to have him in a national health hospital, but it wasn't the best hospital. So we did go privately against Tim's wishes, but he wanted the best for me. Obviously, we went privately. I didn't realise it was a natural childbirth hospital.

But when I spoke to them, they said, for goodness sake, Mrs Healy, as as I then was, for goodness sake, Mrs. Healy, it's not the Victorian times. Of course, there's going to be pain relief if you require it. Fast forward to hit me over the head with a fucking spiked mallet and get this fucking thing out of me was my exact words. after 42 hours. And at one point they put me in, when I say a birthing pool, it was like a kid's paddling pool, at which point there was a power cut and Tim had gone out for a tab. So I was left scraping in this paddling pool.

Anyway, Matthew came out and all was well. And he was eight pounds. It was a pretty tough labor, But anyway, out he came. However, in pregnancy, and I always love any platform to talk about this, but in pregnancy, I was the typical blooming pregnant woman. I loved every minute of my pregnancy, even when it went over the due date. My hair, you know, they talk about people who are blooming in pregnancy. My hair was great. My skin was great. I didn't get any swollen ankles.

You know, all of that kind of stuff. I loved being pregnant. And all my friends, particularly my gay friends, thought, oh, the baby will come out. She'll hand it to someone who delivers the yellow pages and she'll be offered a nightclub by four in the morning. However, I was fine after the birth. I was breastfeeding.

Everything was hunky-dory. In fact, the nurses in the hospital said to me, oh, you're the only mum who hasn't pulled the anxiety cord. Anyway, on the fifth day, we went home. We had a lovely flat in London. Bearing in mind, and this is relevant, we had money in the bank. We had a very happy relationship and a much wanted child. And we got home and I was feeling very odd, which I put down

to being the baby blues that 80% of new mothers have. You're incredibly emotional. People can't say a thing without you bursting into tears. But I knew that this was expected. So I sort of went with it. However, got home after the fifth day. On the sixth day, my parents came down. I was incredibly close to my parents. Rob's heard me talk about this. And they came down and I had always longed for the day that my parents would see my child. And I just felt wrong. I felt flat. I felt really weird. And that night I went to bed and I had a panic attack and it wasn't caused, it wasn't induced by anxiety over Matthew, who was, you know, crying a bit for food, but there was nothing, nothing out of the ordinary about his, his, his, his babiness. Anyway, these days, 33 years later, what happened to me would have been a huge red flag because I woke up in the morning after a very short time of sleep and my

boobs, which had been huge, huge, big mamas for breastfeeding had literally, they were, had gone to nothing. The whole lactation process stopped. Oh, wow. And all my milk had gone. And it was like empty boobs. And that would have been huge. The midwife came round, awful woman, and said to me, no, she was.

She was fucking horrible. And she came round and she went, oh, God. Oh, that doesn't normally happen unless a spouse or a parent or a baby dies. You're going to have to go out. Yes. Well, she said, you're going to have to go out and get bottle formula. Luckily, my mother was with me. She told me not to worry about that. Anyway, whole lactation process had stopped, at which point my mum said, let's take the baby out. So it was the first time we'd taken the baby out. It was in Crouch End and I'd lived in Crouch End for 10 years. So it was somewhere I was very familiar with.

And we walked down to this cafe. We sat in this cafe, and I said to my mum, I said, I just feel very weird. I feel like I'm in a sort of a dream sequence as if I'm outside looking in. And she said, you don't feel depressed, do you? And I said, no, I don't feel depressed. I just feel very weird. Anyway, on the way back, we went into this corner shop to get some milk. And it was the day of the Hillsborough disaster, 1989. And I heard on the radio, 96 people have been killed in this horrendous disaster. a mile later and I can remember this lucid I was lucid half a mile later when we got back to the flat my mum asked me a question about what had happened and I said that was a dream mum I told

you that was a dream oh wow we got into the flat a couple of my friends were there and I just remember thinking I want you to leave I want you to leave and all I can describe it is this blackness it get it I get quite emotional about it because, anyway, it was the beginning and the end of a period of my life, I suppose. Yeah, of course, yeah. And this blackness from my toes crept up on me and every bit of joy and life as I knew it had gone. Oh, my God.

I was apparently, when later later diagnosed on the verge of it was severe post natal depression on the verge of a purple psychosis and what i don't remember is my mum came into the flat and i was on the window trying to trying to open the window now when i talked about this subsequently the press put that down as a suicide attempt it wasn't i i there was no memory of that. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know why the baby was there. Oh, my God.

Anyway, my dad and Tim had gone out to play golf. And when they came back, the medics were around my bed and I was hospitalized. And it was severe postnatal depression. And it took me 20 years to receive information that that could have been hormonal. And you think how many women are having a baby every single day of the week. And I used to say to people, this wasn't psychological. I didn't have any problems in my life. There were no child, you know, the psychiatrist would try to find some childhood trauma that had happened to me.

And if there was, I would have been the most open person to talk about that. But there wasn't. How long did it last? Well, that's the million dollar question, Josh, because 33 years is the answer to you. And I don't want to frighten people because for most people with postnatal depression, it will go and they will recover. Unfortunately for some people, it opens up a tendency to clinical depression. And I have just celebrated, if that's the word,

my first time in 33 years. I've gone three years without an episode. September 19th, 2019, that was my last episode of depression and i don't know why so i'm not i'm i'm not overthinking it as to why because i'm sure it'll come back at some point but you know it obviously then had a huge impact on matthew's childhood on my on on on on on everything but i am grateful of the chance to talk about it because people always try to pin clinical depression onto some previous trauma.

And sometimes it is. Yeah. But postnatal depression, you've just passed a human being through your foo-foo, you know, that grew inside your body. There are going to be some hormonal changes that maybe have to start being taken into account. Well, it's chemical imbalance sometimes, isn't it?

And it's just your body's producing all these mad hormones and chemicals. It's a chemical chaos. And apparently the people like me, as a layperson, I'm well informed on it, you know, because obviously you can imagine how many people I've spoken to and how much I've read about and talked about. People like me, I was blooming in pregnancy. It's not necessarily a red flag, but I think a lot of people think that people who've been previously anxious

or people who are very low or, you know, those are the people to look after. Nobody could have told that I was going to be the person. No matter how many psychologists say to me, we would have been able to tell, you wouldn't. Yeah, and you had lots of support. You're a confident person. You had that money in the bank and things like that. It could happen to anyone.

And I'm incredibly lucky because the only reason I'm still here is because I had a loving and supportive family who from day one of my illness knew that I had an illness. If I had a pound for everybody that said, pull yourself together or snap out of it or let me take you to the metro centre and buy you a new dress. And I know they only meant well. I know they meant well. Were you scared about the second pregnancy then in that situation?

Well, that's why I didn't have one for 12 years, Josh. And to be honest, I'd always planned on having more, but we didn't for that very reason. So I got pregnant accidentally in Amsterdam with Louis after having a joint and I don't smoke weed. Louis always says, mum, please, could you tell that story on some more TV? But yeah, so that was, you know, and Tim was on his own admission very worried about that he was 50 then as well you know and so for lots because he felt he always said i lost my wife he he married this happy go lucky you know sort of a person and um and and and he lost me for a lot for a long a long period of time and but what

but ironically what happened with louis was is that people say to me did you get depressed after louis not any more than i had had subsequent episodes of depression because mine had never stopped they were sort of ongoing but the good times by far overweighed the bad times. Also, 12 years on, I knew how to get through them easier. Yeah. So, but, you know, I was 42 by then as well. We were sort of old parents. I mean, God, thank God we had Louis.

Amazing. But then what happened with Louis was I was okay. But then what happened with Louis was I was okay. And Louis, obviously I'd had many, many tests because I was older. And my friend Gordon, who sadly died, but he was my friend and my gynecologist. And he said to me, I think we should give you an elective section. Not because I was too posh to push. I'm from Whitley Bay, do you know what I mean?

But because he said, let's do everything different. Let's make everything different to your first experience, just so that there are no sort of memory, you know, there were no memories of the whole thing. So I was very happy to do that. And I knew I was in incredibly, an incredibly safe, safe hands with Gordon. So I, so I'd had all the tests and the amniocentesis and all of those things. I knew I was having a healthy boy. I did have a healthy boy, but then in the hospital, Hope Hospital, I had him National Health, fabulous place in Manchester and he wouldn't feed. And I was kind of desperate to breastfeed because I felt I'd been robbed of that experience with Matty, and it was something I wanted to do.

But he wouldn't feed. And we were trying all these, you know, contortionist sort of things to get him to that child. Lou had a terrible time with it. It was really difficult for her. It's really hard. And the nurses were fantastic. Anyway, day three, suddenly Louis vomited.

I can't find a green. This green, well, you can't see it on me, but a bright, bright, bright kind of green. Imagine green. A very, very electric green. And it was like a projectile exorcist vomit. Anyway, he was taken to special care and another nightmare began.

Honest to God, my fucking kids. And... It's not always like this, any would-be parents listening. Oh my God, please. That should have been the name of this podcast, my fucking kids. And he was taken to special care and they didn't know what it was. And it was horrendous.

And I had to walk down this long, long corridor to go and see him in special care, which I called the Green Mile, because I never knew what was going to be at the end of the corridor. And I could tell by when I pressed the buzzer and I'd go, hello, it's Denise Healy. I could always tell by that voice whether it was good or bad, you know. Oh, Maruza. How old was he at this stage? He was just born, three days old. Oh, God.

And so he was in special care for two weeks, but he wouldn't, if he took a little tiny cap of milk, he would then bring it up again. Anyway, they were eliminating, It was a medical hospital, not a surgical hospital. So they were eliminating everything. So they had to do the lumbar puncture for meningitis. And after two weeks, I just said to them, I can't handle this anymore, guys. I know you're doing a brilliant job telling me what it's not, but I need to know what it is. And they said, right. And they sent him and me up to Alder Hey Hospital in Liverpool. And he was diagnosed eventually with a thing called Hirschsprung disease. And Hirschsprung disease is in the bowel between the fifth and the twelfth week of pregnancy.

And the nerve endings in a piece of the bowel don't form. So before 1948, when the first operation for Hirschbrunn was performed he would have been a child who didn't thrive and because they can't eat and they can't poo so but until they go in till they go in till they do the surgery they can't tell how much of the bowel is affected so eventually after six weeks of him being in hospital and me being at the hospital, which was hard because Matthew was 12 and Matthew needed me. And anyway, they operated and there was nine inches of bowel missing that they had to take out. They do what they call a pull through. So they took the diseased bowel out and they pull the good bits together. And so we went from doing no poos to doing about 24 poos an hour.

So I was just, I'm doing all the actions here, which you can't see, but I just constantly would whip a nappy away and thrust it up the wall. How quickly after did you go, oh, you know, longing for him to poo? Go for fuck's sake. Probably within about 25 seconds because you've done about three oh and um anyway listen thanks to alder hay and the brilliance and and would you believe this in the whole world there were two hirsch praise hirschbrung specialists in the whole world working there on two hirschung surveys, bearing in mind this is a condition that only affects one in 5,000 children. Wow.

And anyway, so he was taken off the Hirschsprung register at five. And to anybody who has a child with this condition, he is now a thriving 21-year-old pain in the arse. Oh, that's brilliant. Oh, that's brilliant. Oh, that's so... That's incredible. So, Denise, obviously, when you first had your first matty and you found out that you were struggling

and it was all quite difficult, and you had episodes as they were growing up, what was sort of a day-to-day life for you then? Was life good and you was enjoying it and then out of nowhere they were growing up, what was sort of a day-to-day life for you then? Was life good and you was enjoying it and then out of nowhere depression would creep up or was it always there? How did it, because there'll be people listening that may be going through the same thing,

but I don't want you to sort of paint a false narrative of it being all rosy, but there must have been points that were good and then it switched back. How did it sort of work? That's exactly it. And I also say that to anybody you know because i do do occasional talks talks about this and you know talk about it

like now when i get a platform to is that um i've had a wonderful life living with clinical depression it's it's it's the most horrendous isolating crippling debilitating illness but my life in between has been fantastic and if that sounds like a paradox it's not meant to but it doesn't it my life is still being fantastic and i wouldn't change it would i change it for the world yeah i probably would i probably would but in answer to your question it was probably for me about a year before I could honestly say um that I was having many more good days than than bad days the trouble is with my depression is that it was endogenous not reactive so there is nothing to this day that I can plan as regards that's going to bring on my depression or that's right yeah because I think there I think there's two types. I think me and Josh, I don't want to speak for Josh,

but can get anxious or anxiety at times, which for me is normally when I'm overworked or stressed. That's right. So I know that if I put that much work in a diary, I will struggle with that. However, what you've got is not reactive to your situation. It can just occur through hormones and chemicals. Having said that, there are certain things,

and exactly what you say, one of the triggers that I have to to watch is overwhelming and the funny thing is it's not big overwhelming things like when both my parents were sick it's an overpacked diary like you've just said of little some inconsequential things that just overwhelm me and thinking ahead as well, projecting. And one of the areas where people like my husband and my then husband, I have to say, but Lincoln is incredible considering he didn't know anyone with depression. And he said in his Soho days, he would probably have been one of those people who said,

what the fuck's she got to be depressed about for God's sake? Do you know what I mean? He said he probably would have said that. But what Lincoln will do, he will make me stop and remove as much as possible out of my diary. Obviously, with all three of us talking now, we have certain things that we, we're all people who don't want to let people down. Yeah. You know, and as much as possible, we will work to that agenda.

But sometimes you just have to. And Lincoln's very, very good with that. But going back to when Matty was poorly, it was probably about a year. Then when he was 18 months old, I did an article for the Evening Chronicle, my local paper, who's, you know how your local paper champions you

from the day you're doing star jumps from behind a tree when you get into drama school. And they sort of, you know. And so they'd done an article and I spoke about what had happened to me. And my agent at the time, he said to me, oh, darling, you've made a huge mistake here. He said, you should not be talking about your madness. He said, you'll never work again. And I said, I cannot go through what I've been through and not speak about it well then Woman's Own or some such magazine that in the days when they were nice and had you know Roger Moore in the knitted suit on the cover they um they picked

up the story and from then on I hadn't realized how I was the only person on the telly talking about this because you've got to remember back back in 1989 we didn't have google you couldn't put postnatal depression in and a local group come up that you could maybe contact yeah there was nobody there was a thing called the association for postnatal illness and you had to write to them I couldn't even pick up a pen wrong yeah of course you know and if it hadn't been for my mum who took unpaid leave from work to be with me and Tim was Tim was away he was doing Casualty in Bristol and he was doing a series called Boom with Michael Elphick in Birmingham and he'd had to he was playing a club comic and he had to grow a moustache,

like a sort of handlebar moustache. And he had to talk to me with his hand over his mouth because I was convinced that everyone was plotting to change everything around me. It's really, really weird. And I can remember all these things, but anyway, I got then asked to do things like Robert Kilroy's silk show in the morning and the time, the place. And I was determined that even if it did make, you know, people say, did you lose work because of it? And I said, well, I don't know because they, if I did, you know, but I don't want to work for people who would have not given me work because I was vocal about having a mental illness. And I just made it a mission that I was going to, to talk about it. And if I was the only person talking about it, which I was for a time,

to talk about it. And if I was the only person talking about it, which I was for a time, then, then I would, then I would risk, you know, losing, losing work if people thought I was a nutter. I never thought I, you know, this is my third marriage and, and, and whatever. I just, I never thought I'd meet someone, you know, in my, in my fifties, certainly not in the nightclub at six in the morning, you know, that would become my, if there is a soulmate, he is the person I want to be with, you know, more than anybody else. But of course, that all happened. The only thing I can thank alcohol and drugs for is meeting Lincoln. Yeah. And then you get and getting sober together. It's such an amazing story. Sober together, because of course, what happened was as a result of my illness

and trying to keep up with a packed diary and working in a soap opera, bearing in mind, you know, when I was doing Coronation Street, it was watched by sometimes 21 million people an episode. You know, that's the third of the country watching you. There's a lot of fucking pressure on you for that. And also a schedule that just was unforgiving yeah and and and rather than step back because now people stay off work if they've lost an eyelash and you know and and i i was just from the the show must go on school of of of of work

yeah of course and and and but there are times when I think I should have stepped back because if I'd had a kidney complaint or a liver disease or something, everybody would have felt sorry for me. But the horrible, isolating thing about depression is you have an invisible illness. And that's when the alcohol started and that's when the drugs started. So there are no excuses for my behaviours. But there are reasons for it.

So it doesn't excuse them. But there are reasons why it started. Because my problems with alcohol dependency was trying to numb my illness. What's amazing about it is you can get to 50 and that isn't what it's like forever. It can change. You can turn it around. You know, my motto is it's never too late. It's never too late to find the love of your life. It's never too late to change your behaviours.

It's never too late to leave a partner that you're not happy with for both your sakes. It's never too late. You know, there used to be that old thing in my granny's age of, oh, I've made I've got to lie in it you don't have to anymore you don't have to make your bed no you have to make your bed I really do but um but sobriety is by far the thing I am most proud of and that isn't just for the life it's given Lincoln and me it's for the life it's given my boys and also as well for you when you're in severe depression and you've got a 12-year-old boy who's at school and, you know, you feel like you can't, you know, it's too much and you've got this new baby that six weeks of in a hospital,

then you find it's got this disease and then they fix it and it's out and it's pooing all the time and all that kind of stuff and it's a good day but then it's a bad day. I mean, how does it feel now when you turn on the telly and he's acting and you go to an arena and your son's sold out arena and they're both blossoming and smashing it? How does that feel?

There was one time that I was at the O2 and there was 20,000 people there and they knew every single lyric of my son's songs. And what happens is my my normal denise welsh daily fan base is um hey up and we're a loose woman or the other thing is you've got to get my wife sue on this show, I tell you what, she never shuts up. How does she get on? You know, that's my normal fan base. Lovely, but very, very, very approachable because I am nice to people. That's just part of life. And I don't remember anything other than that. And I have a lovely, lovely fan base.

Cut to a 1975 concert where I am suddenly the mother of Jesus. And I will arrive and people see me and I will see a cluster of teenage girls or girls women in their early 20s and they look at me and they get this voice like this like oh my god there she is and honest to god there was once when I was at Blackpool and he was playing with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra and I was on like a balcony and as I arrived some people downstairs spotted me they looked up and they all started cheering and I was on like a balcony and as I arrived some people downstairs spotted me they looked up and they all started cheering and I was waving and the next day somebody put on Twitter me waving and it said don't cry for me Blackpool but in answer to your question I was at the O2 there's 20,000 people that all sing in the words

of my of my son's song that he wrote, because he writes with George in the band, but he writes the lyrics. And I just wanted to point to my vagina and say, could we all just please get on your fucking knees and say all hail? Because it was 42 hours of agony and 30 minutes of depression. But obviously, I couldn't be prouder of them both. You know, Louis is a young actor. I'll be perfectly honest. And like, you know, I said before we started,

I've got to respect the boys when I talk about them because we have a laugh, me and Matthew, about people who think there's any kind of nepotism, you know. And Matthew always thinks he drew the nepotism short card because someone put the other day, how could that bird of loose women and the transvestite from Benidorm give birth to Matthew? And he said, yeah.

He said, I drew the nepotism short card because the fact is the band is a success despite me not because what I know about music is that so I was always on strict instructions about what not to post and you know oh god because I just wanted to be a proud parent yeah but he'd say and I'd go well I bet Chris Martin doesn't stop his mum from posting he, because she's Mrs Martin from Doncaster, you're Denise Walsh. You've got a million followers. So what are the rules? What are the rules imposed by Matt?

The rules have changed a little bit because Matthew, he's much more celebratory of me now. He feels much more confident. He's always been proud of me. Yeah. But you've got to remember that when you're in a band like the 1975, there's a lot of people around that, a lot of record companies and a lot of this and a lot of that.

So certain things that I would say would be picked up by the sun and the mirror. Right. And they're doing talks with the posh papers and the music magazines and stuff. So he took a long time trying to get away from being Denise Welsh's son. Yes. Not that he was embarrassed by it, but he's a superb, you know,

songwriter. Yeah, well, he's establishing himself. Like now, I think, like you say but he's a superb you know songwriter he's establishing himself like now i think like you say he's older and you sort of become more self-confident yeah and it's like the 1975 is so big now it's like but at the start he was probably more insecure about it than now yeah absolutely absolutely and you know you don't realize i think as famous parents the kids don't come you know and you guys have your kids won't come home from school and said oh Johnny said this about you and Susie said that about you but the kids do yeah you know I was on the cover you've got to remember I was a real and this is not

victim I'm never a victim but I was I was real tabloid fodder and I did give them a lot to talk about so yeah I was constantly on the front of those women's magazines. And I use women's magazines in inverted commas. They're not. But anyway, I was on the front of them all the time. And it was always my marriage hell, my drug hell, my toy boy hell, my this hell. I mean, me giving up drinking, I think probably nearly put them out of business because they were so desperate to find another hell that I could be in, you know?

Yeah. My washing up hell, hell anything my new quiet life hell my son's a star hell but the thing is that that you know my kids grew up around that noise so not so much Louis he says he doesn't remember the other thing was is that Matthew and I have had to have a real coming together of minds. And I will talk about this because Matthew was, without a doubt, affected by my alcoholism. And without a doubt, he says now that it was a rock and roll house to a degree. There was always people there. The boys started their band in the garage at our old house.

Lincoln started his career in our garage. I'm going to soon do a bonnet drama in the garage and see if I have the same kind of dancing success. Can Josh go and write some jokes in this, if it helps? But, you know, they started in the garage. I would wake up to do Loose Women and step over people in the kitchen on the floor, you know, they started in the garage. I would wake up to do Loose Women and step over people in the kitchen on the floor, you know, and Matthew would go,

oh, hi, Mum, that's such and such from One Night Only and that's such and such from Airship and all these bands. But we were often up till two. It was a party house. And Matty accepts that a lot of who he is is because of that. But also when you are drinking and doing cocaine, which is the worst drug that lies to you, that cripples you, that takes away your moral compass, that only makes you feel good for 40 minutes. But unfortunately, I became very, very rel on it in in an attempt to medicate myself was that a daily thing or more like a weekend blowout thing no sometimes it depended

where I was the thing is I I've brought up two wonderful children so I wasn't the kind of alcoholic that um that went to the went to the you know because I know I'm not envisioned and I talk with my hands. I wasn't the kind of alcoholic that opened the cupboard in the morning, took out a bottle of vodka and put it in a cup and drank it. That wasn't the kind of alcoholic I was. I was a binge alcoholic. So I wasn't, if I was drinking in the day, it's because it was the hangover from the night before.

I didn't drink in the day. And also because it was the hangover from the night before. I didn't drink in the day. And also because my life was so split between being at home and being in London, either on acting, well, not necessarily London, but anywhere. You know, when I was doing Soldier Soldier, I was in Germany doing this and doing that. I was away from home a lot. So I did have, it wasn't that I was always with Matty, you know, and I was a perfectly functioning, you're never really functioning as an alcoholic,

but as regards doing the school run, I wasn't drunk doing the school run. You know what I mean? When it gets to six o'clock and the kids are sort of in bed, you start drinking and you carry on drinking and then get up hungover. Or if I was away from home, I would be drinking and I would be up all night and go straight to work. But in those days, that wouldn't happen now on TV shows. But, you know, there were times when I should have not been on.

But it was a different time. We all talk about that. It was a different time. Because my drinking really started to be a problem, probably during theation street time so matthew was 10 11 then right then it sort of escalated listen guys i'd always loved a party yeah you know that was getting pissed on a saturday night and feeling a bit rough on a sunday type of person of course you know i didn't have i didn't have a problem um so matthew and i have really really um he's grown so much as a person because he was thrust into this kind of superstardom.

You know, he started the band when he was 13. And when they were 21, 22 is when Chocolate happened. So these guys have been together as a band for 20 years. Wow. You know, 20 years they've just celebrated as a band. And that's what Matthew said about this outing now, this tour. After the three years we've had, he said, I just want to be in a group with my best friends,

making and playing good music again together. And that's what I think this next tour is going to celebrate. But I just think there were things that Matthew would point out to me that I'd said and done that I would be defensive about because I didn't remember. But subsequently, Matthew loves and adores me. be defensive about because I didn't remember. Yeah. But subsequently, Matthew loves and adores me. And, of course, he's had his own issues.

So he understands addiction. Yeah. I have a son who understands addiction. And we are incredibly close. He did talking going back to what I'm supposed to post and everything. Now, I just, but it was a few months ago when I saw something, some song clip that had come out and I put it on Instagram and I put, you know,

can't wait to see them on tour or something. And Matty rang me and he said, hi, mum. He said, are you okay? I said, yeah. He said, mum, I love you very much. And I went, right. Okay. He said, but you've just announced our tour and we haven't announced it yet. And he said, my phone is just run off the hook with every agent I've got, every record company and universal. Your mother's just announced the tour. The amount of planning that goes into a tour announcement. Oh, my God. So I am aware, and I do have to be careful. And, of course, now Louis is 21.

He's just come back yesterday. He's been filming a series in Croatia. So, of course, you know, he's seen everything that's happened with Matty. So Louis will send me a picture, and underneath it just says, don't post obs. What was it like when, so you said he started the band at 13 or whatever. Yeah.

And it was presumably, it was just like a hobby that a teenager is doing. Do you, do you remember like it becoming serious? Like, do you remember that transition to thinking this is actually going to happen? I remember knowing that that music was in his bones as we as we say his dad's very musical

you know obviously Tim is known as an actor but he's very musical he's an incredible singer and um I'm an actress who can sing I'm an actress you sing. You had a single in the charts? Come on. It was straight in at 23 and straight out the following week. I forgot that. But it was only off the back of being in Soldier Soldier, Josh. Robson and Jerome

had had a hit and so they thought let's try and see if we can emulate that. Sadly it didn't work. Josh, have you got any more questions for Denise before I go into our final one? Well, I've got about 400, but I think we, you know... We'll have to do a second part once the grandchild's arrived. I'd love to, I'd love to. Absolutely.

Genuinely, it's been an absolutely lovely way to spend an hour. I've thoroughly enjoyed myself. Oh, thank you. It's also just really... I think it's really important, the things you talk about and how open you are about them. And I just think loads of people will have such a great reaction to this. And it's, I think, what would you kind of your advice be to people if they think they've got postnatal depression?

Well, the thing is, Josh, is that unfortunately, mental illness and mental health in this country has always been secondary to physical health and the two are absolutely entwined I mean when I when I get an episode of my what heralds an episode of my illness is that I will often know a couple of days before that something might be brewing because I start to panic about the slightest things, like two dishes on a, you know, I'm not a clean freak. I'm not a housewife. Absolutely no way. I like my house clean, but it's untidy and chaotic. Little tiny things start to really, and Lincoln will go, are you okay? And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine. But when are you going to take those things back to the studio? You know, I get really angsty about little things.

And then just before an episode, I get a metallic taste in my mouth as if you've put a coin in your mouth and I get a tingling in my palms. And usually if that happens within 30 seconds, I'm in a depression. And there's a certain, you know how perfumes are very evocative. There's a perfume that my mum had when she came to stay with me for three days,

but ended up staying for six weeks. That perfume, if I ever walk past it, I will get a rush of anxiety because it takes me back to those days. But luckily they've stopped making it now, obviously because of that. But it's a very intertwining of physical and mental. What I would say to people is, we have this thing called, you know, it's good to talk. Britain get talking, all these sort of things.

It is so important to talk, but it's all very well to hold up signs saying, it's good to talk, but people have got to listen because people are still treated very differently at work. If they say, I can't come in because I've got, because I've got a heart complaint as opposed to, I can't come in because I've got extreme anxiety and depression. And there is still a lot of work to do. And I do find there's a lot of virtue signaling around the words of it's good to talk. And but the thing is now is that back in the day, even if I wasn't well enough to do it now, if you say lived in, I don't know, Birmingham, there will be a waiting list for you to access national health, mental health services. It's absolutely appalling. And especially with young people, it's appalling.

But that's another conversation, you know, that needs to be addressed. But now, if you're in sort of, I don't know, you live in Edgbaston near Birmingham, where my goddaughter lives, you could now Google depression services, Edgbaston, and there will be some group, some support group, some help group that you could approach that would help you bridge the gap before you can maybe get medical services. It's not the be all and end all, but it's just a group of people who will understand what you're going through. When you are in a massive depression, you can't talk to anyone. So that is maybe when the people around you need to look for some kind of support mechanism for you when you are well enough to do that.

Yeah. And, you know, joining any kind of group and talking about it is absolutely amazing therapy. The other thing is, you know, people say, well, get outside walking. I try and do that a lot when I'm well, when I'm poorly, I can't even get out of bed. So that's when the people around you have just got to make sure that you just do exactly what you do. And if that's staying in bed for four days, clear the diary. Yeah. And just be there for the person. Denise, last question is, Lincoln, who I fell in love with Lincoln

on the show when you came on Unbreakable. He's such a lovely bloke. And it was so sweet seeing how you two interact, especially knowing your backstory now. But the question is, it's a bit different because you sort of met Lincoln when his son was a bit older, but what is the one thing about Lincoln as a parent that annoys you, and what's the thing you love the most about him as a parent?

Lincoln is a much stricter parent than me, but it's interesting because obviously with Matthew, he's never parented Matthew. Matthew's 33, Lincoln's only coming up 50. Obviously, you know, he's a young'un. And, you know, well done me. And so he's a friend to Matthew. And they're both huge fans of each other. Louis was 9 or 10.

And so it's very, very difficult, as people know, to come in as a step-parent, especially when Louis has a dad who is a great dad who Lincoln respects, um, totally. And there were times in Louis' upbringing that I honestly felt that, that Lincoln was being too strict. But now Louis says, I am so glad that I have those boundaries because I was the person who said, if you don't do that, I have told you five times, I will take that Xbox, whatever it is, away from you. And then, because I didn't want to have to fill in the Xbox time myself, I would give the Xbox back, you know? And Lincoln wouldn't. And so I think, so it's not really a fault. To be honest, it's very difficult to say. I think, you know, you would have to talk to Lewis as well.

say, I think, you know, you would have to talk to Lewis as well. Lewis is Lincoln's son. I have a great relationship with Lewis. Again, he was 18 and he saw his dad go through a lot. You know, they have become so incredibly, incredibly close. But I think that when our kids address these issues that they've been through, Lincoln and I were both very defensive about it. And that's something that we would change because nobody wants to be told what you did wrong. Yeah. Especially by your kids. Especially by your kids. You absolutely don't want to. And so you, and so you fight back and say, well, you should be bloody lucky because this, that, you've got this,

and you've got this, and that's not the way around it. You should listen to your kids. And if, you know, and, and, and what is it? They fuck you up, your mom and dad. You know, that expression. You know, and we do to a point. But at the same time, we are always reminding our children how incredibly lucky they are to have us. But Lincoln is a great dad and he's a great husband. And, you know, another thing, if anybody's thinking of addressing

what sobriety does, you know, I mean, you've got to remember that when I met Lincoln in the nightclub at six in the morning, he was the PR and marketing manager for Stringfellows. And only three years ago, I was clearing out some numbers in my phone and I found one that said Lincoln from Stringfellows when he was a booty call.

Denise, absolute pleasure. Absolute joy, Denise. Loved working with you on Unbreakable and I can't wait to see the finished show. Absolutely, me too. And yeah, we'll get you back on when the grandchilds arrive. Absolutely.

Thanks, guys. I've really loved it. Thank you. Denise Welsh. What a woman. We've still got our cameras on, Rob. We've still got our cameras on, which is weird when there's no guest.

Okay, let's turn them off. Denise Welsh, amazing story, isn't it? Oh, I love that. It's an incredible story. Well, she's so funny and interesting, but also got stuff to talk about. And yeah, no, I just, I found her story, her and Lincoln, because,

so that Unbreakable show, BBC One, October 6th, and it, genuinely, I've knocked out some shit in my time, Josh. You know me. Oh, we all have. We've all got our own living. I mean, there's some carpenters listening that have probably got a couple of cupboards at the back of their head going,

that was a shit cupboard. But that's life. Sometimes you have good ones, sometimes you have bad ones but it's unbreakable genuinely lou watched it and she hates everything i want to hear that from a carpenter no like i think in our in our game you could have good and bad if a carpenter turned up and goes i've knocked out some shit cupboards you'll see how this one goes well that's life isn't it not everyone smashes a day at work but it's really good this show because what i like about it is because i'm nosy you get to see how real relationships work.

Normally, relationships on TV are all a bit fake, but when you've got your real-life partner on the show with you, like Stephen Bailey, very funny comedian with Rich, he loses his persona a little bit because he becomes Stephen Bailey the person and same as Denise Welsh, Shirley Ballas and all these people, and it's Simon Weston and stuff. Oh, my God, the Simon Weston stuff is so heartbreaking, and he loves his wife so much. Anyway, it's simon western and stuff and that oh my god the simon western stuff is so heartbreaking and he loves his wife so much anyway it's really great show on the 6th bbc one i sort

of uh lincoln and denise i've got to know on that that's how we got denise on the show um yeah and she's brilliant we'll try and get a few of the other guys off the show on as well it's nice to be so honest about her depression and like her drinking and stuff and how it affected the kids and how she come back from that because i think you know people do go through things and i you know some people get it sorted before they have kids but some people it starts when they have kids or finishes when they're having kids so it's nice you know to know that you can you know come back from what is a difficult situation when you've got kids and stuff not every family's 2.4 children and rosy and perfect so it's good it's good to hear about it.

But, yeah, she's brilliant, Denise. We're a big fan. There we go. Thank you very much, Denise Welsh. We'll see you on Tuesday when... See you Tuesday. It'll be what it'll be, won't it? Bye.

Bye.