Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S05 EP24: Fearne Cotton

Episode Date: October 14, 2022

Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant broadcaster and author - Fearne Cotton. Fearne's new book 'Happy From Head to Toe: A journey through the body to help you find your happy' is out now. Thanks, Rob + Josh. We're going on tour!! Fancy seeing the podcast live in some of the best venues in the UK? Of course you do, you're not made of stone! Tickets available now on the dates and at the venues below. We can't wait to see you there... ON SALE NOW  14th April 2023 - Manchester AO Arena 19th April 2023 - Nottingham 20th April 2023 - Cardiff  21st April 2023 - London (The O2) 23rd April 2023 - London (Wembley) 28th April 2023 - Birmingham Utilita Arena  If you want to get in touch with the show here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] TWITTER: @parenting_hell INSTAGRAM: @parentinghell A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willicombe. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with your tips, advice and, of course, tales of parenting woe.

Because, let's be honest, there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing. Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hell with... Can you say my friend's name? His name is Rob Beckett. OK. What's your name? What's my name? Rob.

Rob. Beckett. Rob Beckett. Can you say Josh Whittacombe? Josh Whittacombe. That's very good., wasn't it? It was good. We've done it the other way today, Rob. You've got the information, I've got the intro.

Well, we're doing this face-to-face, so we thought we'd change it up. Yeah. Yeah, you didn't seem to really know what the intro was. No, I've never listened because I'm too busy panically downloading the sound file for you. Okay, well, do you want to know who that is? Do you want to guess where they're from? Hattie, from Newcastle. OK. No, it was Beersden near Glasgow. Not far.

And they're called the McRathers. Claire, 43, Andy, 47. And they've got a lot of names here. Harriet, Roberta, Heather, HRH, our own little princess, three and a half. Archie David Alexander McGrather, Adam in brackets. What? Oh, the A-D-A-M. Age nine, Murray the dog, age ten.

I think they've got too many names for their children. Yeah, I do. I think you just need to trim that down. They really do, actually. Anyway, thanks for getting in touch. A bit Bearsden near Glasgow. A bit weird yeah i feel like having a wank on my left hand that

sorry which you're doing at the same time which i thought was inappropriate that's why i didn't i've always against meeting up in person because i do masturbate at the opener not when the kids are talking when you're talking just get that yeah that is close wasn't it um we're here because we've just done lorraine yes, well, appeared on a show. Calm down. Here we go. A bit laddy, innit? Yeah.

Foot to face, suddenly the testosterone in the room kicks off. Do you know what I love most? Birds. I love birds and beers. No, so I'm getting overexcited. No, it's all right. I get overexcited when there's other people,

so I think actually... Oh, is that the problem? At home, it's good because I'm detached, so I go down a level. But I've had coffee, I've been on Lorraine with you, and now I feel overexcited. It's very small, this booth. It's like a little sauna.

When you imagine face-to-face, you imagine us in like, you know, like that three, Joe Rogan with all the cameras and stuff. But the fact is, if you stuck your foot out, we'd be playing footsie at this stage. Big time, yeah. But it's nice to be face to face. Did you enjoy Lorraine? I did enjoy Lorraine.

It was, we, very early start. A couple of things. 6.30am I was picked up. Yeah. For a 8am arrival. Yeah. What about you? Must have been about quarter to eight, was it?

Because you live in London. 6.45. So 15 minutes later. Five minutes to zone. What's that? Five minutes per zone. Five minutes per zone. What's that? Five minutes per zone. Five minutes per zone. So zone two of London.

So zone two of London. Yeah, but it's circular, isn't it? So I'm on the wrong side of London. Well, exactly. But you're paying all that extra to be in zone two. Yeah, but not because I'm not doing Lorraine. What, the one day I do Lorraine? Every two years, yes.

It does have an impact. It's more often than that. But we wore the same clothes by accident on the rain. Genuinely. Everyone asks us if we did it on purpose. No. Like, no. The problem is, if we did it on purpose, it would be so sad.

But loads of people would think we've done that. But it was an accident. I just grabbed, basically I had a load of clothes left over from TV shows. Yeah, mine's left over from Last Leg. Basically, coral was our last choice. We used it on Lorraine. Yeah, so we're both in salmon pink shirts. Is that coral or salmon pink?

I don't know. Is that salmon? It's almost neon. Yeah. You can see it if you go on our Twitter. Yeah. Just Google two twats in tops. It's trending.

It was weird, wasn't it it but we doubled down and wore it because i did have a black t-shirt but it said dockers beers on it is you're wearing it but that wasn't what we're promoting no but they've had a right old touch did they lorraine now this yeah that can be our small business i think we've given our small business shout out before have we yeah they're not having another one they're not a small business anymore after today. They're huge. Pretty big deal.

But yeah, we went on Lorraine. Did you enjoy it? Yeah, I did. It's always weird doing that. And I think because we're doing it together, I just feel really silly because it's so stupid, isn't it, being on the telly? Yeah, we were still talking while she was doing the links.

Yeah, I know. Yeah, you were talking about Bradley from S Club 7. Yeah, I was just... You carried on talking and I thought, well, why not? Am I a bad influence? Yeah, well, I just think you'll get the blame. Well, yeah, because that's the first one we've done together because I did the one show on my own. Yeah, we've discussed this.

And you're doing Sunday brunch. Talk to me about Sunday brunch. You do the one show half an hour. Sunday brunch is four hours or something. It'll be fun, though. How are you? How's your week been? Good?

Big party tomorrow? Big party tomorrow. Big party tomorrow. Excited? Still not sorted out the entertainer? Well, I don't know. We don't know.

At the time of recording. I hope we have. Well, you put a call out on Tuesday for an entertainer. Yeah. It's Friday and you're still waiting back for a confirmation. No, no, I don't.

No, no. Well, no. Is there a possibility that tomorrow, at your daughter's birthday, you're the turn? No, there's no possibility of that. Okay, well, let's rephrase that. If there is a possibility of that,

what's your opening joke? What are you doing? I'm not doing the turn. No, here we go. The problem is I'd end up playing to the adults at the back. Okay, right. Well, let's go through. So, here we go. No. I know it up playing to the adults at the back okay right we'll let this go through so here we go

no I know it's the entertainer I'm really sorry but you're itching I love doing this face to face I can see you getting stressed physically

so you're in the pub right yeah upper room upper room it's a function room don't worry kids the entertainer's

going to be here in 20 minutes they're getting a bit restless enjoy yourselves play you've said the entertainer's going gonna be here in 20 minutes they're getting a bit restless they're bored of the enjoy yourselves plates what you've said entertainer's gonna be in 20 minutes don't worry kids they're bored of the room they've had a bit of food they've had a play

they've all seen each other now they're all sat down cross-legged looking at the stage yeah waiting for the entertainer to arrive it's your daughter's birthday yeah and they're waiting to be entertained what do you do what about that Liz truss, eh? What's going on there? No, but do you go on and try and do some games? You can't do stand-up. Yeah, I would. I do...

I do... What's the time, Mr. Wolf? Nice. Yeah. Almost like... I'll just do a couple of games. Mr. Wolf. What are you wearing?

What am I wearing? Probably a salmon pink shirt with a blue jacket. And I turn up and my daughter's wearing the same thing, I imagine. Mr. Wolf. What are you wearing? What am I wearing? Probably a salmon pink shirt with a blue jacket. And I turn up and my daughter's wearing the same thing, I imagine. What's the time, Mr. Wolf? What's the time, Mr. Wolf? Sleeping dogs, whatever it's called. Musical statues.

Yes. Big. Playing music from my phone really quietly. Past the parcel? Past the parcel. You won't have done that, will you? I won't. It's difficult to riff past the parcel because you would never parcel. Is it worth organising a panic past the parcel in case...

We discussed... We genuinely discussed past the parcel. I think there's two birthday girls. You've got a problem there. Yeah, so what you do is you have... There needs to be sweets on each layer, obviously. Yeah, I know, but the end needs to be the birthday. Yeah, but two things in it.

And then go, why don't you share that with the other birthday girl? Yeah, and they'll go, no. Yeah, but then you've got to lay down the birthday. Yeah, but two things in it. And then go, why don't you share that with the other birthday girl? Yeah, and they'll go, no. Yeah, but then you've got to lay down the law. Yeah, I just think... Two parts to parcels. Two parcels going, one going anti and one going clockwise. And then you time it so that... Oh, my God.

Imagine how difficult that would be. The two birthday girls are opposite each other. They're equidistant and the parcels have got to be at the same point. No, no. And then it'll turn out one of them's got one too many layers or something.

It'd be an absolute nightmare. Pass the parcel is too difficult. But musical statues, fine. Musical chairs is too brutal, I think.

Yeah. Have you got a sound system there then? No, I'd be playing it off my phone. Okay. So,

yeah. So what would you go for? Like Blur? Would you like blur would you go no i'd go with like paw patrol probably i don't watch paw patrol no i was waiting for you to pause pause oh that's a like it's musical statues oh sorry okay yeah but i do think we are stretching there as well with pause i'd have fun there yeah but also we're really stretching the listeners commitment to this if we play musical statues on a podcast i think it's i think it's the ultimate test

what to see if people still listen let's give it a go michael's moved he's laughing he's out yeah you're a loser no No chairman dip there for you, boy. Right, shall we bring on Fern Cotton? Yeah, she's brilliant. It's great. So we should shut up and actually get to Fern Cotton. Okay. And use her new app, Happy Place, and her new book.

Yeah, she's got a book out. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about that. Do you know who else has got a book out? Yesterday. Yeah, our book came out yesterday. Our book came out yesterday. Buy it. And your TikTok's out now as well. I have TikTok.

Stop slapping stuff. Sorry. That was a chair, not people. Anyway, our book's out. This is Fern Cotton. Josh, do you want to lead? Fern Cotton, hello. We do that every time. It's like, Rob goes to you and does the intro.

I literally say hello. That was the intro hi well there's an intro beforehand so i know we don't i don't need two intros i think it's embarrassing if you sit there while we go fern cotton is a star of radio and television like as i vomit yeah on the floor how are you i'm yeah i'm good actually. I'm really good. I feel like a greyhound at the start of a race. I'm about to be let out. I've got so much

to talk about. Oh, well, get going. All sorts. And also just I love your podcast. So I've got this could almost be a sort of

like back in the day I did Extra Factor like the extra bit of x factor i feel like i could do an extra show of parenting hell parenting hell like a debrief show yeah yeah yeah yeah i could do that and have guests on and we discuss what you've said i could do that do you know what don't rule it out fun don't rule it out, Fern. Don't rule it out. Oh, that would be terrifying. So we're just going to talk about, you know, Rob saying he had the shits last week. No, do you know what was really making me happy?

So I haven't drunk properly, had more than a drink. So I haven't had multiple drinks in the same day for about five years because of being a parent and I just don't want to feel like shit. But the other day, I had an accidental drunken evening with my five best mates from school. They're like my crew. And we went for a casual dinner that went very wrong. And the next day, I had a lengthy drive home

and I was listening to the Hangover special episode and it was like, there was like a visceral resonance to everything. Like, Josh, even like the tone of your voice. It was everything. I was like, oh, thank you. Thank you, Josh. What I don't know if I said on the episode, because I don't remember really,

is that we were recording at 10am. Did I say that I woke up fully clothed on my bed? Yeah, yeah, we heard it all. At 9.50. I don't even remember saying that. You sounded like absolute shit. Yeah, you sounded awful. You were like seriously parched. There was very little liquid in that hotel room. The fire alarm was going off. It was brilliant. I actually felt really good about my hangover in comparison to yours. I'm glad I could bring that to you. You did. Your USP, Josh,

is making people feel better about their lives, which is terrible for you. You do it so well. It comes so naturally. Let's hope I never find happiness. The whole country will be in trouble. Let's hope I never find happiness. The whole country will be in trouble.

Fern, how many kids have you got for the uninitiated? What's the kids set up? Well, I cover all areas here, the full spectrum. So we go, we'll start with my stepson, who's 20. He's a man, actual man. Oh, 20. Actual six foot three man. Oh, man oh wow yeah that's the whole thing and then Lola my stepdaughter who's 17 then we go down to Rex my son who's nine and then my daughter who's seven so we've got a whole cross-section going on yeah so how how old were your stepkids when you first sort of met them and entered their lives so

five and nine five and nine so you've seen them from being little yeah yeah he is just a massive bloke yeah yeah like that's the crazy thing like especially with lola she was this tiny cute little blonde five-year-old adorable and now she's towers over me can't fit in my shoes she's like a woman it's just the whole thing is mad oh wow and do you yeah when you've got a 20 year old stepson are you still the step mum are you now kind of almost just a kind of a mate do you know what i mean like i'm not cool enough to be a mate i mean there's still that sort of thing. No. When it's your kids or stepkids, you can't impress them. It is impossible. So I am just some sort of...

You must be a cool mum first. Surely, if you're not, what hope have we got? No, no. Absolutely. Josh is panicking. The rule stands for everyone. I am just an embarrassment and I can't impress them. I try and impress my stepkids. I'm like, would this be a cool thing to admit that I've interviewed this person?

Literally not interested. So, no, I'm definitely not in mate territory. I'm still tragic stepmum, really trying to be cool. But also, I'm writing this, aren't I? That their grandad is one of the coolest men in the world, right? Yeah, they do think he's cool, but he's like next level cool. So, that's... Who's their grandad? one of the coolest men in the world, right? Yeah, they do think he's cool, but he's, like, next-level cool. So that's... Who's their grandad?

Ronnie Wood from Rolling Stones. Oh, yes. Ronnie Wood. So however edgy your story is about going for a few drinks with your mates are, Ronnie Wood can really... Won't touch the sides. Won't touch the sides. He can quite literally trump any story that I tell.

Does he do normal grandad things? Or is he not? Is it sort of a different kind of role? I mean, he's got... This is the other... Our family's quite intense. So he's got five-year-old twins. So my...

Oh, wow. My husband, who's 46, has got five-year-old sisters. And Arthur, who's 20, has got aunties that are five. Wow. Oh, my God. It's like Game of Thrones. It is like Game of Thrones. It really is.

It's quite extraordinary. So, yeah, there's a lot to get your head around. Game of Stones. I should have said. Game of Stones. That's really good. You've peaked five minutes in. We're doomed.

I'll tap out now. Josh, you pop on a bit. That'll do me for the day. Do the stepkids help with the younger kids? We're doing an honest podcast. Lola does. No. No, Lola does.

Lola is really good. Arthur is in his last year of uni at Newcastle. He's having the time of his life looking after his small siblings. He's not on the agenda. He's not high on the priority list. But Lola is very helpful. She'll babysit for us occasionally and she is just a very helpful person.

So, yes, one of them does. But, you know, I'm not dissing Arthur live on a podcast. Arthur is an amazing, amazing young man and I love him. He's just got other things on his agenda right now. When I was 20, there was no way I would have looked after a young kid. Absolutely not. No way.

Would you, Rob? Are you all right? What's happened there, Rob? No, absolutely not. I've just dropped something. It's my wedding ring. It's your wedding ring? That sounds bad, doesn't it?

That's ominous, yeah. I mean, Soho alone. Let's lose it. Yeah, no, at 20, you don't want to be looking after young kids. I mean, it's hard enough for us when there are kids, so why would he want to do that with his siblings? No. So at one point, did you have teenagers in the house and then newborn babies?

Small kids, yeah. There was a very intense period where Honey was a newborn, Rex was two, Lola was probably 10, I can't do the maths, or a bit older, and Arthur was a teenager. I mean, it was, I don't know how we did it. Like, I look back, and we take all four on holiday still every year. Like, that is an absolute must. We've done it consistently for the last 12 years. That's not a holiday. No, why? Because they all want to do different things I imagine

don't they where do you go where are you going on holiday to keep them all happy do you know what we do a lot of Ibiza because it does

cover everyone Arthur can go out on the piss Lola can have nice little meals with us the little ones have got a nice beach

so that's sort of but it is we'll be getting up super early still, because obviously there's no line on a holiday. And we want to go to the beach. But then Arthur gets up and we're sort of having lunch. It's just, it's, yeah, it doesn't work. Yeah.

That isn't, it's a spread, isn't it? That's the problem. Yeah. It's really hard. So how does it work now? So Arthur's at uni. Yeah. And, sorry, how old did you say Rex does it work now? So Arthur's at uni. Yeah. And sorry, how old did you say Rex and Honey are now?

Five and seven? Rex is, no, Rex is nine and Honey's seven. Nine and seven. They're good ages, nine and seven I'm really enjoying. They are good ages, right, yeah. Yeah, it feels like I'm probably getting, because your kids are a lot, well, not a lot younger, but they're younger,

so it's still quite a lot of practical stuff, isn't there? I think I'm just coming out of that now. So it's less labour intensive, but they haven't got the attitude yet. Well, Rex is on the cusp at nine. Already, yeah. Rex is on the cusp. He's 10 in the new year. We're hurtling towards that team thing

and there's some sort of hormonal stuff probably going on. We're on the cusp. You know, there's like, you're an idiot, that sort of thing going on. You're an idiot. How do you deal with that? Are you... Oh, not well.

No? Not well. Who likes that? I don't like being called an idiot. I hate being called an idiot. No, I don't deal with it well. I don't deal with any of it well. And it depends, doesn't it?

Like, some days when you're not tired, you feel like, yeah, I can really cope with the emotional hurdles here. And then other days you just think, I'm locking myself in a cupboard. I can't deal with it. It's hard. But I think, you know, the worst is yet to come, probably. Well, that's good.

That's a nice way of looking at it. And that must be weird because you've kind of lived those teenage years once. So you kind of know what you've got coming up, right? Yeah, but do you know what? My stepkids navigated teenhood really brilliantly. There weren't many huge problems and there wasn't that much attitude. Obviously just the usual dose, but nothing extreme. So I think I got off quite lightly with Arthur and Lola.

That's good. So you're about to get your comeuppance? Yeah, they've always sort of... We've never had a set thing. They've just sort of come and gone whenever. It's always been quite a loose arrangement. So we've had them for two days. We've had them for two months.

You know, it's been quite sort of, oh, we'll have them for this period. And then, you know, obviously Arthur's at uni now. And then Lola's 17. So she's been with us this last week, which has been really lovely. But yeah, now they're that bit older. They've got, I guess, a bit more autonomy, so they hang out with us when they want to

versus when they were tiny. It was a lot more about who was practically doing what. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the lovely thing is, and I'm so grateful for this, all four kids get on so well. And there's no half sibling about it. They're just siblings. And that's been, you know, I think really important for me and Jesse

is that they all feel like they're just siblings and it's just one big chaotic family. And everyone's adjusted over the years really well to all the changes and they just all get on that's so good isn't it yeah that is that is nice i think that the idea of because when like to go on holiday with all four of them was there a point when you thought arthur's gonna dap out of this because he's do you know when you're 20 you're like oh do I want to go on the family holiday? Of course he does, he wants a free holiday. He's not ditching out on the family holiday just yet, he's getting a lovely free holiday.

Fair enough. When you're stepkids, is it like, do you not get as involved with sort of telling them off or setting boundaries? Or sort of, is it a little bit more passive? Yeah, that's been really tricky, actually. I've definitely found that one hard. I think because their love and respect for you isn't a given. Whereas with your kids, you know, at the end of the day, if they fall over and hurt themselves or someone's being mean,

they will run to you because it's just an instinctive thing. Whereas I think with your stepkids, for me personally, I've definitely had a bit more insecurity. Like, oh, if I say that, are they going to really hate my guts? And how do I make it up to them or recover from that? So I have found that really tricky to navigate. And it's something I've talked to Jesse a lot about. And he's always been like, no, you know, treat them the same as Rex and Honey.

But I have definitely found that quite hard, quite a tricky concept. Have you ever tripped yourself up by trying to be too friendly and like, I'll get you this, you know, sort of trying to bribe them and win them over? Oh, yeah, of course I have. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, there was a lot of that in the early days. Buy your way in. early days buy your way in

also because it was an absolute novelty like when I first met Jessie I'd never dated anyone with kids before so I was like oh my god this is so fun this is we're going to go to Giraffe for lunch and go bowling I'd never done all that stuff before

I'd been like on the piss for 10 years consistently so that was a real novelty and I think then you know as that gets very real and you're like oh my god I actually am responsible for these children for a certain portion of the year and also I need to sort of be here to help guide them if they need me in life I think that's where you start to go oh okay this isn't just a novelty this isn't just sort of me taking them to giraffe for lunch there's actually there's like a lot there's more to it there's more to parenting the giraffe supposedly we've discussed whether you're a figure of authority with your step kids are you a figure of authority i can't call this rob would you call what would you you call Fern being quite strict or being

do you know what I think what I'm getting from you Fern and what I've seen psychoanalyse me you are fun you are fun but I think when stuff needs to get done you can really put your foot down and get it done and I think you'd be quite scary

actually I feel like you could tell me what to do and I'll do it immediately you're absolutely right rob beckett you're absolutely right yeah do you know what you are right i i can be quite fun um but that didn't sound like it when you said that convincing myself somewhat as discussed i am a laugh correct yeah do you know what like a lot of people, I am busy. So I do need things to get done when I'm asking them to get done. And with Rex, who gets very easily distracted, that is often not the case. And I, like, I, every night, obviously, this is a whole big portion of parenting.

It is Groundhog Day where I'm like, I am boring myself. I am so bored of hearing myself say, get in the shower, get in the shower. Because it takes Rex 20 minutes to get in the shower. Then once he's in, he won't get out. And then it's 20 minutes to get him out. And it's like, why does a shower,

why is it 40 minutes every night? We need to like speed. Or wait till he's a teenager. I can't. I don't want to think about what's going on in that shower then. He'll come out dirtier. Yeah, I get very bored of myself and I can get quite ratty in those moments. And again, I like to be very honest about that

because I think they're, and that's why I like what you're doing on your podcast because I think when you look at people online talking about parenting, you go, oh, they've got it all sussed. Look, they're breezing through it and they're doing it all beautifully. Oh my God.

Like, it's an absolute shit show here most nights and I'm just saying the same thing every night and it's so boring. Yeah, we do. We want to feel like solidarity in this space, right? Well, since I've been doing this podcast and we are quite honest on it i have had people coming up to me and saying like oh yeah we're having a bit of a nightmare and this no opening up slightly which is really good and i encourage that and i love it

when because then you get beyond the small talk nonsense that you have a lot especially of like school parents or friends that you only see for a small amount of time but it's nice but basically what i realize is that everyone is slightly on the edge and are very good at masking it like it's not like we're all so on the edge yeah we all feel like oh god i feel worried about doing that or going there but everyone sort of feels the same and um and it's better if you're honest about it because then you can sort of have a laugh about it rather than sit there worrying the whole time yeah because i think there is so there's this huge undercurrent of anxiety with parenting that we just don't talk about not about big stuff like really sort of anxiety inducing stuff like everyday stuff like if we ever are lucky enough

to go on a holiday or like even if it's in the uk just that element of change literally sends me over the edge if i'm tired and worrying about every tiny detail and every possible outcome of not sleeping, the safety of the place we're staying in. I get a little bit panicked about that sort of thing. And I go into overdrive about, like, that's a nice thing, going on holiday, but I feel such anxiety before any change of anything. Or, like, Rex is going on a school trip soon for two nights

and I'm like oh my god he's not going to sleep at all is honey going to sleep because they share a room so she's going to be a bit thrown and stuff like that that tips me right over the edge but but you are a laugh sometimes i am a lot of fun so do you have quite a strict routine then to manage that? It's got slacker. I think I was probably a bit more militant when they were little because I was on Radio 1 every day,

so I had a really time-sensitive routine. And I think, again, now they're getting older, I'm getting a bit more chilled about it. And also, like I said at the start, because my kids are a little bit older and I'm not I'm not sort of you know breastfeeding or getting up in the middle of night the whole time I'm able to be a little bit more chilled out about my own thing so I you know historically have gone to bed very early because I'm so overwhelmed by life I need to just like say goodbye to the day quite

soon and get into bed whereas the famous night i've just been talking about with my old schoolmates um i don't even know what time i went to bed and that's quite unlike me but i feel like oh i can do a bit more of that now i can sort of like let go and stop being so controlling but i think we get into that very controlling mindset because we're shitting ourselves at something's going to go wrong totally great and we've got all that anxiety so like i have i have micromanaged over the years but i think i need to pull back on that a little bit and just sort of yeah have a bit more fun quite frankly i think that's the thing though because you when you've got really young kids you do develop these habits do you know what i mean

and so i so i found myself going to bed at 10 every night or 9.30 every night because that's what we had to do. Yeah, to survive. And now my kids are sleeping long enough. I could go to bed easily at 11, half 11, and I'd still get enough sleep. But it feels, that feels insane when I'm doing that now. Yeah, so if I go to sleep, I'm now doing this thing because I was struggling to sleep where you limit your sleep so you're going to bed a bit later and the time between when Rose goes to bed at 10

and I've got to wake up to wait there to 11 30 I'm like I don't know what to do with this time I don't know I'm so lost you need to get a new hobby it's an hour and a half what am I going to do with this? I know, but that's, I think, this really lovely incremental thing about them getting older, that you do just get a little bit more time back. You know, and I've got friends who have got adult kids and no young kids,

and they're like, oh my God, it is a totally different ballgame. Like, you're there on a much more intense emotional level, but on a practical level, there's just so much more time. Like, they're lying in on a weekend till midday. You've got a whole half day to play around with. Yeah, my God.

Because I used to see, like, there was an old guy who used to live down my road, and he'd get up every morning at six and go and get the paper. And I'd be like, you're 70, mate. You've got no kids. What are you doing? But I can see that's going to be me. I know, I worry about that.

Because I wake up, like, when I went away with my girl mates for a night, we all woke up at half six. We didn't have to. It's like, why are we awake? This is awful. What are we doing? Like making bagels and pancakes for no one because we're just doing it all the time.

I know, we're doomed. We're really screwed there, guys. I hate to say that, but we're going to be getting up at six every day forever. What time was you going to bed then when you were in peak micromanagement? Probably half nine, read for half an hour, then fall asleep by ten, half ten.

But now I am getting a little bit more like, oh, well, let's just sort of not clock watch so much and see what happens. But Rex has never been a great sleeper. So he still gets up quite early. You know, he could still do a half six easily. But then Honey's a pretty good sleeper. So she will have a bit of a lie in.

But then, like you were saying about these sort of funny habits, this I think is really good to be honest about, because I've been chatting to two of my best mates about this recently and we kind of all equally relieved each other in telling each other this i am still at night sat next to honey holding her hand as she goes to sleep and i keep thinking i've got to get out of this like i've got to stop doing this i could be she's seven i could have 20 minutes to do something else here but I'm just trying to be accepting of it right now

she really wants this to go to sleep peacefully and to not feel scared so she's happier and I can just have 20 minutes of not going on my phone and just lying there processing the day so I can use that time wisely but I felt really like I was getting parenting

so wrong like oh my god I shouldn't be still doing this I should have been stronger and got us out of this habit but like three of my friends are like oh yeah I still do that one of them sits on a box by the bed one of them's lying in bed holding the hat like do you know what I mean we've all got a thing and I just think we can't beat ourselves up about it we sit in with my daughter at the moment and it's as you say it's 10 20 minutes it's like nice chilled out time I've got no intent on like I need to end this but it feels like I think there's something drilled into you when you have when you go through the stage of having babies and toddlers and stuff because of all the sleep stuff and all that kind of stuff and potty training and stuff,

it's drilled into you that you need to get through these stages so that they are, and there's no kind of, the other element is, oh, it'll be fine because you will get through this. And it's actually quite nice.

And my daughter has got an eye mask, a unicorn eye mask, so I actually can go on my phone. So that's why we're here. That's genius. Do you know what? It really helps. Jesse, having been through all of this, you know,

for 20 years with Arthur, he keeps saying to me, that is all going to end before you know it, and they're going to be at uni not wanting to talk to you on the phone. So he, like, doesn't want it to end. He's like, he loves lying in bed holding Honey's hand as she goes to sleep because he knows it's not going to be forever. Whereas I'm a bit like, oh, God, I've been doing this for seven years. Shouldn't I not be doing it anymore?

But I think you're right. We do feel like we've got to be so militant. And I think that's quite a new concept. I don't think our parents were worrying about any of this stuff. They were just like, have they been fed? Do we love them? Tick. And now we're going oh god

like are we doing this right and are they doing enough after school clubs and are they getting enough whatever in their diet and our parents didn't give a toss about all that no no i totally agree yeah i know some of that because especially when you're in the school whatsapp groups some of the parents and you know it's up to them but they'll be like oh what do you think about this homework do you think that was good enough or the right thing or what reading they're doing? And I'm like, I don't give a fuck. Genuinely don't give a shit.

And I know I should, but I'm like... You know, if they do care about it, that's fine, but, like, I don't know, I've just been like... I feel like I can't... I haven't got the time to care about that. I haven't. I've not beat myself up. I think they'll find their way.

And the school thing is like a whole other scenario where you then start to like, you know, you all get sucked into comparing where your kid's at with reading or the standard of the homework or whatever. Or handwriting when they first start. Handwriting. Wrapped up in that. But I think, look at all the people that are doing brilliant things now as

adults you know like did did they all do well at school i doubt it like some of them might have but i think you find your way don't you like you find your way and same with like after school clubs rex doesn't want to do any he does same as my daughter, just absolute point blank, none. Won't do it. And I always think to myself, like, did David Bowie do extracurricular weird music club? No. He just found that. He just started doing it because he was bored. So I think I'm not going to get hung up on that one.

He'll do what he wants to do. Exactly. But don't see David Bowie as the bar you're trying for your children to reach that's again a foolish a foolish option well yeah so like that's the same with my daughter but then i worked out she because her day's quite structured already because they're in lessons she doesn't want to do a club at lunch or after school because that's her time to hang with her mates she was like like being in the playground talking and playing where it's free form where you know she doesn't want to do science club i wouldn't want to do science club no but he doesn't

want to after school he wants to come home and watch tv yeah that's fine that's what i did look at me now mate you're smashing it so what i'm interested in fern with you because you're you are the you know you are the uh the grand master of happy right so you are the grandmaster of happy, right? So you are the host of the incredible podcast Happy Place, which has also broadened out. You've got a festival. You've got a festival. We've got a festival and an app that we launched today.

We've launched our Happy Place app. Oh, there we go. I was going to say, what's it called? But obviously it's called Happy Place. Happy Place app. Did it all start from the podcast? Because you've obviously written a book and then you've got the new book.

But did it all start from the podcast and come from there, basically? No, it was all a bit of a happy accident. Rob's asking for a friend. I'm just wondering how much we can broaden this out. No, no, no. I'm trying to work out. It feels like, you know,

talking to Richard Branson about Virgin. Like, so what came first? I mean, I'm certainly not anywhere near. I'm not launching a rocket at Happy Space. Happy Space. Happy Space. Oh, there we go. I don't think the puns could get better on this episode.

Oh, my God. I'm telling my manager immediately. So, no, what happened is I was doing radio. I felt deeply unhappy in lots of ways in my life. I wasn't particularly happy at work. Everything just sort of fell to absolute shit, basically. This is sort of like late 20s, early 30s. And I was at the point where I was like,

no one was offering me any TV work. And I had that scary thing of, I don't know what I'm doing and I don't know where this is leading and I don't think this makes sense anymore. What the hell am I going to do? You know, I don't have where this is leading and I don't think this makes sense anymore what the hell am I going to do you know I don't have a plan b I don't have anyone who's gonna help me out if it all goes wrong is that a thing that happens a lot with um because you were obviously doing you say radio one

and you did top the pops and all that kind of so it's quite a difficult transition right to go from kind of youth television and radio to the next level was that one of the things i think it was it is you know it's it's cutthroat and i think you know if you're not one of the favorite favorites that gets a lot of tv work you you just don't work and i really wasn't but then i started to see how that was really sort of eroding my own self-worth of like there must be something wrong with me you know maybe i maybe I'm annoying. Maybe I'm whatever. And I started to really go into my own shell. But there was other stuff going on. I felt mentally really not good.

And I started writing. So my first book was called Happy. And that was looking at that period of my life and the sort of depths that I went to in terms of my mental health. But that was just a book. I was was like that felt really nice to write if it if people like it really cool was that pre-kids uh that was just after Rex was born right so yeah he was tiny at this point um well maybe it was after Honey was born as well I think I think I had both kids actually because I left Radio 1 when I was pregnant with Honey so yeah it must have been after I'd had both kids so put the book out and then that really resonated with people

luckily and I think it was a lot of people feeling equally as shit at the time so that really kind of drew people to the book to sort of hear about that and then I wrote a couple of other books around mental health and before podcasting sort of exploded into the amazing world it is now it was sort of an idea that I kept thinking about you know this is another way for me to interview people which

is something I love to do and to communicate but much more on my terms and again I had no grand plans for it I was like let's just start interview some mates so the first series was just interviewing people that i knew welcome to our world yeah yeah it's the best way but it's so nice it's easier than going the crazy new track from jewel leaper actually you heard this even though i'm 36 i've got two kids oh my god i mean that was very much my life that's very much my life i do feel sorry for Radio 1 presenters when it gets to that stage where your life is obviously completely changed, but you've still got to pretend to be right on.

Oh, my God, it was at the club last night. Ariana Grande's new song played, and it was great. No, I know. I was so out of that loop, you know. Like, I just dropped out of that loop, like, very quickly. So I think it all happened very accidentally, but now it's very much become my mission and something that I'm deeply passionate about and that I'm really enjoying. And it's so much fun to be doing all this stuff.

So it was an absolute accident, but one that I'm wholeheartedly going with. And has it transformed your life doing this? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. One hundred percent. your life doing this yeah i mean absolutely 100 so i think that's the good thing about hitting rock bottom is often nothing makes sense everything goes you start again with no preconceived ideas of anything i mean i didn't because i just thought i don't understand life anymore i don't get it i'm just gonna just try something and just see what happens i don't care i don't care anymore it's kind of like quite nihilistic about it.

Like, I don't give a shit. I don't care. And because I really stopped trying to prove myself and impress people or be something I wasn't, I've ended up just doing stuff that I really, really love and care about, which is a very lucky position to be in because I know that that's not a given that you end up in a line of work that you really give a shit about. But I really give a shit about what I do and I'm not

dissing the other 20 odd years that I did in traditional broadcasting I learned so much that has enabled me to do all this and I had some great fun and there were some really crazy wild moments but what I'm doing now I feel is like a little world I've created. I don't get as much shit because I'm not putting myself in other people's spaces. I'm on this channel and I have to be what you need me to do. It's just, if you like me, I'm over here.

Come have a listen to what I'm doing. If you don't, don't mind. You know, so I feel safer. I love that joking link on Radio 1. Hi guys. Yeah, I know. I'm going to. I love that you're opening link on Radio 1. Hi, guys. Yeah, I know. I'm going to be here for a bit, doing a couple of songs. No, because it doesn't work like that in radio.

You have to have the biggest numbers and the best show and the best everything. And I was just like, I'm drowning in this. I can't do it. So, yeah, I'm much happier in what I do today. And I think that age, like late 20s, early 30s, that age is a difficult time for anyone. But also, especially women, if there's a pressure on to have a family

and what your career's doing and you might have to have a career break if you don't have kids, there's a lot more decisions women have to make and have forced on them than men. So it's quite a tricky period. Yeah, it was really... I mean, I was still at Radio 1, as I said, when I got pregnant with Honey, and I found that very challenging, sort of, you know, my work days were very long sometimes.

I'd often do radio, then go straight to Celebrity Juice. So I'd leave the house at seven and get back at 11 at night. And I felt terrible about it. And I couldn't find the balance at all. And I am that bit luckier now that, you know, my kids are at school, which gives me a bit more time in the day. But I predominantly work from home. So I can record most of my work from home and write from home.

And again, I feel very lucky. It really suits me. It doesn't suit everyone, but I like being able to walk and get a cup of tea in the kitchen, come back and be in my little shed. I feel very happy doing that. Josh, you fancy going for a beer? Maybe like the 14th of April?

Can't do the 14th of April, Rob. How come? We're doing the Parenting Hell Arena Tour at Manchester Arena. Oh, OK. How about the 19th of April? Oh, no, I can't do that. I'll be doing the Parenting Hell Live Tour in Nottingham.

What about the 20th of April? Cardiff Arena. Parenting Hell Live, Cardiff Arena. 21st? 21st of April? No, I can't do that either. London, 02. 23rd of April?

I can do the 22nd. We've got a day off. 23rd, yes. Yes, Wembley. What about the 28th of April? I'm in Birmingham. Do you know what, Rob? Parenting Hell Live Tour.

Yeah, but we'll just have a drink afterwards. Yeah, should we do that? Yeah, that'd be nice. We need to plug the live tour, by the way. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a live tour of Parenting Hell, and I cannot wait. It's genuinely going to be an absolute thrill to do.

And do you know what it would make? A perfect Christmas present. Two of those tickets. Oh, great Christmas present. Or Father's Day present, or Mother's Day present. Exactly. See you there. Your new book, Happy From Head to Toe,

which basically goes through the body and what the different parts of the body how they can bring happiness so give me the top three facts about parts of my body that are in this book that's that's a tough question give me the one so i i had this idea so the book is kind of aimed age seven plus yeah um so luckily that's the age that i'm dealing with at home so i can you know monitor what my kids like in terms of books rex hates reading so that's really fun honey's a little bit more conscientious but with rex he needs some sort of adventure to go on so rather than me presenting a book about mental health to kids i thought let's create this

adventure through the body because I know that that would really excite Rex. And he likes looking at fact books to do with the human body. So I thought, right, he loves Adam Kay's books. So that really inspired me in terms of how to present it. But I think also, and this goes for adults as well as kids, we kind of compartmentalise. You've got your brain and your mind and your thoughts and then you've got your physical body and this book was about like it's the same thing

like bringing it all together fact on each other yeah well they just are the same thing and if one's off the other one's off and whatever so so looking at facts okay so i think the things that i found interesting were certainly the stuff around the brain I chat to lots of different experts in the book to do with the brain and the mind and thoughts and the power of thoughts and Tom Daley did a really interesting insert in the book talking about visualization because he visualizes doing the exact dive many times before he actually does it. And he does it just before he's about to dive. He visualizes the perfect dive. And I think for kids, that's so important and handy for whether you're doing something in front of the class, reading something out or a sports match.

But I think actually for adults, I sabotage myself all the time going, oh, this is going to go to shit. I'd sabotage myself all the time going, oh, this is going to go to shit. What if I stumble on that word or mess that up? Rather than going, imagining it happening exactly as I would like to. So I found that really interesting. Also, it doesn't matter if you do make a mistake. I nearly said **** on Strictly.

But, you know, I'm still here. How? I was reading count quickly. Not ideal, was it? We've all been there. We've all done stuff like that. Exactly. I think I said anal on radio one by mistake once.

I think I was trying to say angel and it came out as anal, but the rest of the sentence just, it was really off. We've all been there. We've done it. And so with these things, have you chatted them through with your kids and stuff? Because it's a different skill, right? Trying to pitch this to a younger market, I think. It is.

That's a really interesting world to go into. I've not sat down with my younger kids and gone like, let's chat about mental health. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think they'll just sort of switch off and go, what is she on about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fuck off, mum.

Yeah, exactly, you idiot. Loser. I have talked to the kids about it in the context of what they've been going through. So Rex went through a horrific period at the start of the pandemic where he was waking up five, six times a night having terrible nightmares about some sort of alien

that he'd seen somewhere on an advert or a TV thing. My daughter's having this at the moment, so we don't know what to do. Do you know what? Do I say this out loud or not? I'm going to say it out loud. And, Rob, I can only apologise. It might not be the same for you.

This lasted a year and a half. Really? Oh, Rob. This is not like every night, but she'd wake up quite often and two or three times, she was like, old people were attacking kids with frying pans

was the latest one and she's genuinely like scared when she wakes up like it's really hard it's really hard and i think you know we were going out of our minds we were like i was trying everything like nothing was too strange i was like yeah let's put crystals in his bed like anything like literally anything. I said to him we should stop eating them with frying pans before bed. Go do that first. We've got our routine, stick with it. Do that first.

Yeah, I was really going out of my mind. So I think we had to talk to Rex a lot about anxiety and what was causing this and really talking the whole thing through, and his imagination, and all that stuff. And then Honey can get quite anxious before bedtime, worrying about things, and she'll get one idea in her head and she can't get it out. So I think we've talked about that quite a lot. And also Rex can be quite fiery, so if things don't go how he wants, he can really fly off the handles handles and he'll go in a terrible mood for sort of hours in frustration yeah and i get it you know they haven't got the

vocabulary to sort of articulate what they're thinking and feeling so you know after we've all probably had a bit of a a barney and then calmed down jesse and myself will sort of try and talk it out with him and like i get it it's really frustrating like life's really challenging and that these things are going to come up and we do try you know we'd by no means nailing it and by no means perfect but we do try and address these things without using the words like mental health or well-being or things that are just totally nonsensical to kids it's just sort of chatting to them about how they're feeling, I guess, really. I think it would be really exciting putting that book out to a younger market

because it's like a complete... Are you doing stuff like you're going into schools and stuff? Are you going to...? I mean, I'm going into my kids' school soon, actually, to do a tour. They're not going to be there. It's to the teachers, which is even more scary. Is it? Oh, no, that's fine. They're fine, the teachers. You can do a couple of rude jokes with the kids. It's to the teachers, which is even more scary. Is it? Oh, no, that's fine. They're fine, the

teachers. You can do a couple of rude jokes with the kids. It's awful. Yeah, true. No, I've done presentations. My worst one was a presentation to the Sixformers, and I sort of misjudged it, and I thought, okay, I'll do this all about, don't worry if you didn't get the results you wanted. There's still

loads going on in life. But before my talk, they did a presentation, and literally every kid was like a a stars and i was like oh my whole talk is completely obsolete i don't know what i'm gonna do it was a nightmare but no this one's just teachers but i think i think we realize as a team like the happy place team that we've predominantly talked to sort of my age group demographic because that's obviously what comes more naturally. But we do need to focus on young kids as a starting point, like an entry point with this stuff. Teens, which is massive. And we haven't even scratched the surface of that.

And it terrifies me, but we've got to do that. And then, you know, also looking at older people and how they're coping with their own mental health and bereavement and loneliness and all of that stuff going on so we have only done this much like a tiny amount when looking at mental health so it's good in a way because we'll just keep on you know getting through all these ideas that we've got hopefully for a long time yet but yeah there's there's there's lots of work to be done yeah no it's hard work because my my daughters get a bit anxious about stuff so if we're going swimming and you know she'll be like oh no no to that we got that we go to the swimming pool at the gym she'll be like we need our gym cards and i i haven't got all the

family's gym cards because if you get there let's go like you know beckett's and they count how many of us there are and then let us in kind of thing but she's like we need the card we need to cut i went we won't need the card and i was like what and i'll try and say you've got to stop listening to the worry brain and i started saying the brain she went yeah but i need my brain for maths i was like okay well you've got a few brains you've got your worry brain you've got your maths brain and i went you don't need the worry brain will tell you to worry but you don't you have to ignore it sometimes because sometimes it worries too much and then and then just drop that in there and then when we get there and we get through without the cards i'll go see so you didn't need to worry like the same with the dentist how was it oh

she'll be like oh it was fine but yeah that was good it was the worry brain so you have to ignore that so i'm trying to implement that but i think that's a really good way of doing it i think you you've got to give it kid language and give it something visual and they're not going to be interested in you going and if you say to a kid it will be fine that is meaningless it's just like

blah blah blah like you've got to give it some context and like yeah a visual I think so I think that's a really good idea

yeah I try and break the brain up because I do quite well with my own mental health during the day but it's in the middle of the night my subconscious

kicks in so I think that's what sort of happens with kids and that's why i have the nightmares because in the day they're in the moment and they're floating through life because like kids do when they're younger but it's when they go to sleep that all that sort of the back of their brain sort of creeps out yeah but as you said we you know we're all struggling with it i have that in the middle of the night when it's dark and i assume everybody else in the whole country is asleep and i'm the only person awake and it's a horrible place to be and your brain is literally going mad like going wild and it's so hard to go you almost have to talk to yourself like a kid

like this is the worry brain like this is just this is not reality because we haven't really developed that much since we were kids in terms of anxiety and worry if anything it gets worse because we've seen things happen that we didn't like. We've experienced the pitfalls of whatever. So, you know, we're all dealing with it. And I think that's the other thing I try and do with the kids is say, oh, my God, like I get I get this at night. I don't sleep well rather than going like this is a kid problem. It's like, no, I I do this as well. And it's horrible.

Why are you worrying? It's like someone going to you, but well when it's horrible why are you worrying it's like but you like your life why are you worrying but because i was on a holiday in greece and i was having probably the most relaxing holiday i've had for years because it was like the kids are old enough and it was just so not everything was sort of worked out well and me and lou were getting low like eight hours sleep every night the kids are with everything you know everyone could be going perfect in the middle of the night i woke up in a fit of panic that because it was the heat wave back in england you know it was like 40 degrees i was convinced my house was going to set on fire because it was so hot not even not even something that could you know so i know some houses did catch on fire but

the reality of that happened just and it weren't even the heat wave that was like three days away but i was it's it's that scrolling on the news before bed's the worst yeah never do it news stories are insane at the moment i know we're just we're all imbibing way too much everything and it's just making us lose the plot completely and that's the worry i think for us as parents is you know we've not experienced there hasn't been a generation that's experienced having kids in this world with this much technology. And I don't know how we're meant to navigate that. And I struggle with it. And comparison.

Yeah, comparison. You know, what you don't know won't hurt you when you're a kid and you go, oh, is that all right to do with them today? Like, I'm just sat here in the house and you haven't got your phone, you haven't got social media. But now you're like, you see someone going, oh, wonderful day at the beach, walking the dog. I'm like, how have you got a dog to a fucking beach? I can't even drive him to the coast without him being sick or shitting. I know, it's horrific. What do you do about phone?

What's your kind of, how's it been with phones? And do you have rules? Because at nine or ten, that's approaching the point where he's asking for a phone, isn't it? I know, one of his mates has got a phone and i'm like absolutely no way yet we've said 11 because arthur and lola had a phone at 11 like a very basic phone at that point and then obviously be yeah and it's secondary school you know when he's at secondary school i think they will be using them a lot to sort of communicate

and meet up whatever but at the, it's more Nintendo-based hell that I have to live through. Fortnite on the Switch. Yeah, it's Fortnite on the Switch, Rob. You're absolutely landed on the bullseye there. It's a nightmare. I didn't even want him playing Fortnite and Jesse did one of those,

oh, all his mates are playing it, it's fine. So as soon as Rex heard that, I was like, we're fucked, we're absolutely fucked. And and they kind of they play with each other so jesse's like it's social they're like they're talking to each other on a saturday morning or whatever so we we oh god we we let him go on for an hour saturday morning an hour sunday morning that is it i'm quite strict about it yeah but often like the last few weeks, Rex was doing this thing where we would go out for a walk in the afternoon. He'd go, please let me play one more time in the afternoon.

Please, please. And because he's so relentless, I mean, he's going to be the most amazing. He'll talk his way into anything when he's older. He ground me down after an hour. And I was like, just play it. I don't care anymore. And he was like, I won't play it tomorrow morning I promise and I was like well if you can keep the deal

obviously it gets to Sunday morning and he's like I want to play Nintendo and yesterday's deal's gone out the window so as of last week, Jesse created a paper chart that we've stuck to the fridge that says, I mean it's never going to work is it? You're already laughing

You've not laminated it, you're not of paper. You've not laminated it. You're not confident. No, we've not laminated it. It's literally ticking boxes of, have you made your bed? Have you cleaned your teeth? Have you played Nintendo for one hour? Yes, I have tick. It's in writing.

You've done your hour, mate. It's done. So that's our new tactic. And how's it going? I mean, we've only done one weekend, so ask me on Saturday. Did it work on that weekend, though? It worked on that one weekend

because I think there was novelty power there, which is going to disintegrate in a week's time. See, I think that's good to set boundaries, but I feel like my instinct, because we've done that before where we've set a boundary that then we trip ourselves up on, where sometimes if I've got to do, like, a Zoom call,

if he has two hours on that, that's quite helpful because other stuff's happening, or I've got to take the other kid to a class or something, and if they can sit in the car playing it... So I feel like me and Lou have been talking about maybe doing it on, like, sort of more of a weekly basis rather than this is it forever, because actually you don't know what's going to be happening

six months down the line or whatever. Do it yearly, 365 hours. Use them however you want. You can do 365 hours in January. Rex would do it all in, yeah, like one block. That's the problem. But yeah, you're absolutely right, because let's be honest, they are like amazing childcare.

Like, put your kid on the Nintendo, and I can do a little workout class on a Saturday morning on my phone or tidy the kitchen or whatever it might be or like make lunch if someone's coming over later like it is really handy but then i think with rex if there's any boundary he'll work out how to push it further and that's what honey's a lot easier honey will go oh yeah it's fine i've done a bit bored now after 40 minutes i'm like oh god all right that was a bit that was smooth i do think with computer games though it is a bit like

now because they are actually talking to their friends it's way more social than you think it is because back in the day it was like you were just tunnel vision on your own engrossed in this thing but obviously you do need to set some kind of boundaries but i do think computer gaming gaming is getting a bit like what people were like with telly where there were kids at school they only have telly for an hour so i think it's a bit it's it's still it's still you can't let them get away with it but it's not as bad as i think i've thought of it was you know remember them like headlines of kids are having fits from watching it too and you they can't do it too much but the chatting with friends i think is actually quite a good it's the same as being on WhatsApp for an hour or something because you're communicating.

You're so right. Like in the 90s or like maybe, yeah, no, the 90s, when I was in my early teens, I used to, my routine at the weekend, and I don't know where my parents were, get up, watch raccoons with some cereal, after raccoons, straight into live and kicking until midday. I mean, I didn't move. Yeah, totally.

And you're not even talking to anyone. Just start the day with four hours of TV. It was absolutely ideal. And my mum and dad, I don't know what they were doing. They were probably just, like, chilling out. And, you know, fine. I'm not, like, trauma-ed by it. So I think you're right.

We do put too much emphasis and worry behind, like, is it too much? What does it mean? Well, what's the difference between it? It's a screen, basically. It's a screen. But if you watch telly for four hours, you are just consuming.

But if you're playing a computer game for four hours, you're problem-solving, you're communicating with friends, you're doing teamwork, you're negotiating, you're chatting, you're, like, that is becoming, now where it's all online, that is their social circle now. You don't just go down the park. When I was a kid, you'd go, don't sit there and watch telly, don't play games, go down the park and play football for four hours. But kids don't just walk down the park when i was a kid you'd go don't sit there and watch tell you don't play games go down the park play football for four hours but yeah kids don't just

walk down the park now and do it we're at 10 and 11 i was walking 10 minutes to a park to play football for eight hours yeah totally i mean you've made me feel a lot better about all of this actually rob thank you there's a bit of counselling on the side i just think i play games and i understand it a bit more but i totally get why people like you can't just be playing computer games for hours on that little screen but actually I think there's a lot more going into it than, you can't let a kid do it for eight hours and do nothing else, but I don't, sometimes

I don't think it's as, I think it's probably Seven, seven's alright, yeah. But I think it's better than watching TV on your own or watching an iPad on your own if you're communicating with friends and stuff, but maybe that's just my excuse because I like playing computer games. I think it's all about, yeah, picking your battles most of the time, isn't it, as well?

Exactly. Picking your battles. So last question, Josh, do you want to ask the final question? This has been brilliant, though, Fern. Yeah, this is so much fun, Fern. Thank you. I know, I could literally do this all day. I don't want to do other stuff I've got to do today. Can we just extend it?

So it used to be more negative, we've we've changed it which is good obviously uh for you know it took us two years to work that out it used to be what one thing uh does your partner do that annoys you that you haven't told them but now we want one thing that annoys you and one thing that uh you love about them but with the way they parent yeah yeah yeah so i think it's around knows the question better than you, Josh. Yeah. Yeah. Josh, could you just talk around the subject for about three minutes

and then I'll just nail it? Yeah, brilliant. I get the gist. I realised I haven't done it since we changed the question, Rob, and I was panicking. OK. Don't worry, I already know this bit of the show. It's fine.

It was pointless anyway. It was pointless. You should have just said do the end bit and I would have known and we all would have saved ourselves five minutes of torture

there Josh that would be great on the spin off episode wouldn't it talking about Josh not knowing the question it would I'm seriously considering

starting up this side hustle podcast project debriefing your show I think it's got legs yeah definitely has so my thing is around systems i think so i try and create a system where i'll go to the kids right if you can um not wake up

in the night for a week or if you can do your homework without you know having me having to beg you to do it for a week we can get two packets of Pokemon cards each at the weekend. That feels like a really good deal. Yeah. On a Wednesday, Jesse will come in, having done the school run with the kids, and they've got Pokemon cards. Oh.

And I'm like, wait, whoa, what's going on? Got to catch them all. Oh, you know, they've been super good. So I thought, yeah, exactly. And my system is completely defunct and i can't operate that's not fair that takes your legs out from under you that's not you know that's very liz truss and quasi-quarting that isn't it that's yeah yeah yeah yeah this is a lot liz trust exactly this is the situation we're in you dare quarting me no i know i mean he's doing it with a big open heart he's a lovely human

quite a parting are you sure no no Jesse Jesse Wood he's a good egg all round Jesse and and he

you know he doesn't mean to mess with my systems but my systems often get meddled with but the good things he does loads of good things he's

brilliantly up for playing like he loves playing football in the garden with the kids or playing some silly game whatever whereas i'm not as good at playing so he's really good at all that stuff and also like i said because he's got older kids he's much less stressed about all those phases that we've talked about. Oh, God, should they not be doing that still? Or should they be out of this phase? He's just like, look, they'll be 18 soon. Don't worry about it.

So he kind of calms me because his parenting is much more kind of like, it's all fine, which is great. And I need that. Oh, lovely. That is a lovely way to end. Good luck with the book. It's been a brilliant episode. I've absolutely loved it. I've loved it. Fern Cotton, a lovely way to end. Good luck with the book. Fern, it's been a brilliant episode. I've absolutely loved it.

I've loved it. Fern Cotton, happy from head to toe. And for aimed at kids older than seven and adults. Yeah, seven plus, yeah. I think, yeah. And teens, whatever. I think it's just about general happiness. Oh.

You're doing a good thing. Thanks, Fern. Thank you so much, Fern. Cheers. Thanks, chaps. You are the best. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks, mate.

Thanks, guys. Thanks, chaps. You are the best. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks, mate. Thanks, guys. Fern Cotton. She's great, isn't she? Do you know what? Really like that. Really enjoyed it. I didn't know much about Fern Cotton before. I sort of knew of Fern Cotton.

Yeah. The enigma. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, celeb juice. Fern Cotton the myth rather than Fern Cotton the person. Yeah, yeah. You know, celeb juice. Phone caught in the myth rather than phone caught in the person. Yeah, yeah. You know, Radio 1 and that kind of stuff. But she's really chilled out and very normal, isn't she?

In my head, she was like this sort of like crazy sort of radio person. But she's actually just really chilled and normal. Yeah, really liked her. Yeah. Really good. I'd love a shed at the bottom of my garden. You'd have a shed? You've got, well... Well, I've got a shed at the bottom of my garden. You'd have a shed? You've got, well... Well, I've got a shed at the bottom of my garden.

You've got a shed, but what is happening with your shed at the bottom of the garden? Well, it's full of stuff. It's got the peloton in. Yeah. Can't you make a little place to do your podcast? Yeah, but I've got a room that's warmer than the shed,

so why would... Yeah, but you can make the shed warm. Yeah, but why would I... Actually, in reality, do I want to work in a shed? Yeah, but it would stop you getting distracted. I'm not getting distracted. What do you mean? The amount of times when stuff's gone on in your house.

You've woke up the kid or there's a knock at the door or you go to different floors for the internet. Yeah, but imagine going to the shed for the internet. I'm just saying I think you could do with a room. Okay, right. Anyway, phone call. Phone call. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, fun cotton. Fun cotton. Thanks.

See you on Tuesday. Bye.