Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S6 EP10: Cariad Lloyd

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

 Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant podcaster and actress - Cariad Lloyd. You can listen to Cariad's podcast 'Griefcast' wherever you get your podcasts. And her new book 'You Are Not Alone' is out now. Thanks, Rob + Josh. We're going on tour!! Fancy seeing the podcast live in some of the best venues in the UK? Of course you do, you're not made of stone! Tickets available now on the dates and at the venues below. We can't wait to see you there... ON SALE NOW  14th April 2023 - Manchester AO Arena 19th April 2023 - Nottingham 20th April 2023 - Cardiff  21st April 2023 - London (The O2) 23rd April 2023 - London (Wembley) 28th April 2023 - Birmingham Utilita Arena  If you want to get in touch with the show here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] TWITTER: @parenting_hell INSTAGRAM: @parentinghell A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Whittacombe. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern-day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or, hopefully, how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with advice and of course tales of parenting woe because let's be

honest there are plenty of times where none of us know what we're doing hello you're listening to parenting hell with leo can you say Rob Beckett? Rob Beckett. And Josh Widdicombe. Josh. Josh. Widdicombe. Josh. Widdicombe. Good boy.

Rob Beckett. And? Josh. Widdicombe. There we go. That was an epic, wasn't it? Dear Rob and Josh, this is my two andand-a-half-year-old Leo who loves saying your names.

I've got some thoughts on the clip, though, as well, Josh, I'd like to share after. OK, thank you for providing us weekly parenting entertainment for our sanity. It's so great and comforting to hear that everyone else finds parenting challenging as well. Please don't ever quit the podcast. From Wing and Anthony Lynch.

Bista. Wing? Wing. Her name's Wing. Her name's Wing. Anthony Lynch. Bista. Wing? Wing. Her name's Wing. Her name's Wing. That's a cool name. That's a cool name, isn't it?

I love that. I thought the kid did it really well. It was very cute. Lovely mum energy of like, oh, say it like that. Get the fucking radio off. Unbelievable. The radio's on in the background. In a big echoey, it sounded like a big kitchen. Bista. Bit of money vista village

yeah i reckon they've got dollar absolutely earning she can't be bothered to turn the radio off it's too far over in the corner of a massive kitchen bi-fold doors rattling off the windows i know i can hear it josh i can hear the money in that clip oh that's good to know it's good to know that you know advertisers listening that's the kind of people we have listening to us. Oh, wing is rolling in it. Yeah. Get your products promoted. Mercedes. Swatch.

Swatch is the wrong word. Swatch. Swatch. Swatch is like mid- What was the word I meant? Rolex. Watch. Rolex, yeah.

Rolex is a bit more- I said swatch. Swatch. Swatch. Get your swatch. You've kind of- You know those big swatches you listen to this podcast. You know those big swatches people used to put on the wall?

Those big plastic models of a swatch watch in the 90s. Well, they do that. You know Rolexes are really expensive. Yeah, I'm aware of that. But sometimes in airports, Rolex sponsors, you know they sometimes have the massive Rolex clock in airports. I sort of think, well, how much is that one worth? Look at the size of it.

The little ones are like 10 grand. Look at that. Must be worth £100,000. Big giant watch. Yeah, you could get a swatch for that price. You good? You're good, Josh? I'm all right.

Yeah, I've got nothing to report. You're vibing. Yeah. Correspondence? Should we do some correspondence? It's only the little intro, isn't it? This one is not a long one. It's only the little intro.

What kind of correspondence are you looking for, Rob? Boomer, funny things kids say. What's this one? More tired than Josh. Hi, Rob and Josh. Recently, I sat down with my husband and one-year-old for a breakfast of scrambled eggs. After seasoning with a grind of black pepper,

I commented that the pepper had been looking a bit off colour lately. Oh, no. My husband agreed and we began discussing whether it was an issue with the grinder. A few mouthfuls later, I noticed that the peppercorn... That's a shit-boring married conversation, isn't it? What do you think is up with this pepper grinder? A few mouthfuls later, I noticed that the peppercorn on my fork

looked a bit like a lentil. And some further investigation, it became clear that our grinder was in fact full of dried green lentils. It turned out that my husband had cleaned out the old pepper refill pot and put lentils in the shaker toy for our son. At some point, this probably re-entered the cupboard and we used to fill the grinder. It's unclear how long we've been grinding raw lentils

onto our food before noticing we can only blame our year of sleep deprivation we take comfort in the fact that josh seems to be through this phase cross your fingers for us happy new year and thanks for keeping us entertained all the best heather stew and flynn do you think we provide hope josh i don't know if that case. Because the other week we were doing recommendations for documentaries. We didn't watch documentaries for three years. No, exactly.

Exactly. We do provide hope. We're not the Statue of Liberty and the listeners of France. Exactly. Or America or New York. However that works. Yeah.

There's a bit of an issue in my house regarding the pepper grinder, Rob. Yeah, go on. Whatever I cook, whatever I cook, and however much I season it, when I pass it to Rose, she'll just go straight and put salt and pepper on it without even tasting it. Oh, that is annoying.

And she says, why have you got such a big issue with this? And I don't know, but I have got a big issue with it. Yes, because you've seasoned it as a cook. Yeah. And if anyone't know, but I have got a big issue with it. Yes, because you've seasoned it as a cook. Yeah. And if anyone does want, even if every single time she took a mouthful, then put salt and pepper on. Which in a way would be more offensive, you'd think.

Yeah, but I think that's better because at least she's gone, no, that is shit. I was right to think it, but I checked. Now it's time to make it edible. Yeah. What would she do if you did that? Would she care? What?

Put salt and pepper on it? Yeah. She's been trying to force me into the salt and pepper side for the last 10 years. You're not going to season your dinner. No. Do you think, though, subconsciously, she feels like she does that out of habit

and knows it's a bit bad because she's not even tasting it, so she's trying to pull you down with her? I don't know. No, I don't. She totally believes in it as a method it's fundamentally flawed you must you must you must taste the food before you season it well we'll wait until she comes on the show rob we'll have this discussion you rob you've not tried his food it's always shit there's no way it doesn't need salt and pepper is that what she'll say? I hope not.

Aye. All right. You sound like a rapper. Aye. Love the show. Thanks so much for making me laugh. I often listen to the headphones while sitting next to my one-year-old in the dark waiting for her to fall asleep.

I've been there. Not with the one-year-old. With mine. When my middle daughter was about three, she loved dressing up as a princess. She'd find random tea towels and sheets, drape them on her head and pretend it was a veil. One day she came in and said, look at me, I'm a princess.

I realised to my horror, she'd been rooting around under our bed. What? No. And found, in quotation marks, the clean-up towel. In brackets, everyone has one, right? No. The clean-up towel. In brackets. Everyone has one, right? No.

No. The clean-up towel. For jizz. She was prancing around the living room. Actually, is this an email from a 15-year-old boy on half term? Which was covered in dried semen stains. No, no one has this towel. No one has that towel.

Maybe a teenager. Yeah, that is astonishing. Anonymous? No, Liz this towel. No one has that towel. Maybe a teenager. Yeah, that is astonishing. Anonymous? No, Liz from Bristol. Fucking hell, Liz. Don't mind, does she? No. There's other Liz's in Bristol going,

what the fuck has just happened here? I've been absolutely named and shamed in something I don't know. Oh, Liz, if you're walking onto this and you're called Liz and you live in Bristol, everyone's going to think it's you, even though it's not. Yeah. Well, that is an awful way to get it's you even though it's not. Yeah.

That is an awful way to get into the guest though, isn't it Rob? I suppose we're going to have to... I tell you what... Do you want a palate cleanser? Very quick palate cleanser? Yes, please. Kids injuring parents? Hello sexy and relatable boys. This story actually happened to my brother who had a

vasectomy earlier in the year. The night after he had it he was laid in the bed with my nephew reading him a bedtime story at the end of my story my nephew did the usual routine of putting the book back on the bookshelf however this involved climbing over my brother i don't think this is a palette cleaner no my nephew slipped a fucking spank rag than a kick in the vasectomy elbow landing exactly where he he wouldn't want it the day after getting the snip. My brother describes making a noise he didn't know he could make and spent the next several days unable to drive and with an ice pack permanently pressed against his testicles

to try and reduce the swelling. I don't feel cleansed. That was supposed to be the panic cleanser. Hi, Josh and Rob. You asked for stories about when there's an injured child while my 11-year-old grandson totally outplayed his grandad recently. What's the capital of Thailand, grandad? Bangkok, grandad said knowledgeably.

No sooner did he hear these words than my grandson punched grandad straight in the testicles, laughing and shouting Bangkok. He's since been banned from his mother from asking any more relatives about capital cities. Keep up the good work, Nanny Claire and Grandad Dan. Oh, dear. Bangkok, that's a classic, isn't it? Welcome our guests.

Great guests this week, Josh. Brilliant guests. It's the wonderful, wonderful Cariad Lloyd. Cariad Lloyd, hello. Hello. How many children have you got, Cariad? I have two children. I'm trying not to swear too early. No, swear away. I've got two of the fuckers because this morning was just...

How old are they? So I'm right in the midst of it, I suppose you'd say. Six and about to turn three. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Similar to us. Yes. Bad morning then?

It wasn't actually that bad. But at one point, my daughter, she's playing a new game called post post box where we have to write each other notes and she puts chairs everywhere and that's everyone's post button you have to write but obviously you're trying to get ready it's quite stressful she's like mummy you haven't left me a note and I'll say I'll just get dressed mummy you haven't left me a note I'm just gonna I'm just gonna literally put clothes on yeah and she went I've left you a note I was like okay I'll read my note and it just was a sad face and it said you know in child's not proper spelling mummy will you play with me tick box no and then sad face and I said look I'm really sorry just

give me a sec give me a sec and she said there's another note and then she'd just done a really unhappy face and then I said look I'm sorry because her we're trying to get her brother out to nursery and he's much more reliability so I I was like, just give me a second. And she was lying on the sofa. She does real drama. So she was lying on the sofa just looking out the window like a 1920s heiress. Like, just nothing is good.

And she said, there's another note. And I looked and it just said, mummy, you don't love me. That was it. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Because I hadn't played fucking post books. I was like... You should get a job at Royal Mail.

That's how they treat their workers. Exactly. I'm on strike. Deal with it. If it makes you feel better, they do that to me and my wife as well. The eldest, who's seven now, will write things like,

you make me sad, I hate you, and draw the sad crying face. Yeah, that's what she does, the sad face. Did we do that? I don't does the sad face yeah did we do that i don't remember doing that i did not do that no my mum would have gone well yeah i don't because of your behavior today i feel like there's more pen and paper available in my house than there was in my house growing up it feels like pen and paper there's loads of it we're like because i think there's always printer paper but when we were growing up there wasn't printer paper yes

that's what she does grabs the bloody printer paper yeah well then my dad worked from home and we did have a lot of i used to steal the fax paper to date myself and him but i was always told off because i think it was like you couldn't amazon a new ream yeah like don't worry babes amazon a new ream for tomorrow it'd be like this expensive and we'll have to go to the shop exactly i think they've got too much access to pen and paper kids these days. Too much access. And then the small one, I left him alone for two minutes and he drew all over the wooden floor as well.

The other thing I did this morning. I don't want to, like, I suppose I've complained enough on this show that I can have something that's gone my way. I've not had touch wood. Careful, careful. What are you about to say? What are you about to say? They just sleep the night through. My daughter didn't draw on walls. No, no. What are you about to say? Touch wood fucking out. They just sleep the night through.

My daughter didn't draw on walls. No, no, my daughter didn't. And everyone seems to have had that. No, my son is doing it. But I didn't have that. This is the thing, yeah. Is it? How old is your youngest?

He's 18 months. Have I dodged it? Right, mate. No, this is what happened to me. My daughter, I'd say, don't draw on the walls. She's the oldest one. She'd go, okay. And then he's just like, hee hee hee hee.

And now he's about 10, 3. He's now drawing on things. I think there's still time for your child to draw on the walls. She's the oldest one. She'd go, okay. And then he's just like, and now he's about to turn three. He's now drawing on things. I think there's still time for your child to draw on a wall at 18 months. Yeah, there's time, Josh. He didn't draw on the walls at 18 months. He started in the last six months. Carrot, are they drawing on your blue walls or have you got white walls?

We've got white down the corridor. Is that where they do it? He just, tell you what, small corridor, he got two pens in either hand, just straight down either side of the wall. Just wow. Oh my God. Yeah. And then this morning, He just, tell you what, small corridor, he got two pens in either hand, just straight down either side of the wall. Just wow. Oh, my God.

Yeah. And then this morning, he just went on the wood. I think it's the white wall. Yes, yeah. You've got very different colour walls, Josh, in your house. Oh, that's true. Have you got any white? No, Rose wants to change the colour of our corridor because it's too dark.

So do you think she's creating basically a canvas? We've got a lot of white walls and they look at that as big paper. It's big paper. It's just big paper. Big farmer, big paper. The other thing you can do, which we did do in lockdown actually, was, you know, those Ikea roll of paper. Yeah, they're fun. And then we stuck that to the wall, like both

sides. We just covered it halfway and then they just went nuts until they were bored. And I haven't done that for a while and I thought I need to do the old paper on the side of the wall for a bit or have you taught them to draw on the wall i think you're teasing them to the wall there lay that on the floor oh no they later you mad or in the garden in the summer yeah we don't have a garden so that things like sticking on the wall become quite like that's the most excitement or like drawing on the outside small balcony with chalk it's like what do you want to do with chalk?

Chalk is a... Chalk is good, isn't it? Yeah, chalk's a winner, isn't it? At least it washes off as well with the chalk, so... My daughter came home from her friend's house on Sunday and she had just an A with a circle around it on her head. Like she's kind of branded. Like an anarchist sign.

Yeah, like an anarchist sign. Where was she sign where was she what was she meeting she's mates with Swampy's kids they live in East London world trendy Swampy works in media now

it's East London isn't it mate but yeah I just couldn't tell I had no idea looking at the ink it could have been blood

oh permanent yeah sharpie it could have been a sharpie and you're just like if this is a Sharpie, what the fuck happens here now? Is it an Avengers, eh, or something?

I don't think they're into the Avengers. You're being kind, aren't I? She's joined the anarchists. She's an anarchist. That's what's happened. No, I'll tell you what it was. She explained it, that she and her friend were the patients in the hospital,

and her other friends were the nurses or the doctors. They're labelling the patients. And they labelled the patients with... Where was this hospital? 1940s Berlin. Infected. Do not go near. Yeah, it's a bit traumatic, that sounds.

Deep, deep drama. Yeah, she seemed quite happy with it. They'd also drawn like an X on her hand that looked like... Are you sure they're her friends? Mate, she's going down to protest. She's striking next week. That's what this is about. And then they just punch her in the nose and it bleeds

and then they have to help her because they're the doctors. So how do you stop a three-year-old drawing on your walls, Karen? Can you tell off a three-year-old like that? Well, I don't know if you do, but I spend my life being like, oh, don't... Don't... Okay, don't, no, no, no, no.

Right, don't worry, just go. Just leave the room. Because he looks like an angel. I don't mean this... I know everyone says this, but he's got blonde, curly hair. He looks like, to be fair... Sounds good to me. Like you're a centric person of an angel. Yeah don't mean this i know everyone says this but he's got a blonde curly hair he looks like to be fair sounds good to me like you're a centric person of an angel yeah yeah exactly i know a hospital we could get a job in

and he just looks at me like like today with the pens he was like oh i done that drawing and then you're you can't really shout at that can you so i just sound like a twat i go what do we say pens are for paper aren't they pens are for paper and the floor is not paper but he's not saying it i'm saying it like i'm pens are for paper do you believe it as you say it no the thing is with him he's oh he's such a liability honestly he's a rogue he's a cat he's absolute bastard you have to constantly say something over and over again like did you like you hear me where you're listening is where you're listening is and he can be three rooms away and you'll be like oh you know for his birthday we need to sort out the cake and he's like yeah i want chocolate cake and you're like you fucker like i follow you around

being like did you hear me you need to put your shoes on you need to put your shoes nothing so he's really my daughter's much more argumentative oh good which would you take over the options i quite like the argumentative because at least you know they're listening so if you say put your shoes on she's like i don't want to and i'm not going to and you feel like okay we can have a conversation like you're engaged with me whereas him you're like i don't know if he knows i'm here like is he awake what's happening it's just like complete bubble. Do you have that with TV? Oh, God, yeah. If my daughter's watching TV,

it's fucking insane how close I can be to her and she isn't hearing me speak. I can't believe this is happening. How she can tune in on it. And I believe she's doing it. I don't believe she's playing me. No, I think they genuinely

can't hear you at points. And also it depends what you're competing with as well. We say so much shit to them. Yes, exactly. Brush your teeth, shoes on, upstairs, every day on your own. What do you want to eat? I'm surprised they don't just scream at us,

fuck off, leave me alone. They do. They draw on the floor and go, this is my way of saying fuck you. Fucking giving it all that all morning so all they write your notes and say you don't love me yeah it's just difficult isn't it when i mean it's a stupid thing to say but when two kids are very different you're constantly having to re-evaluate your parenting because you're like well this worked for six years and now it doesn't

so you're like oh shit what do i have to do with you like i've got to think about it fuck off do they play together? Do they get on well? They get on really well. Yeah, I'm lucky. They get on really well. Maybe this is a lockdown thing.

They had a lot of time together. Yeah. He was born five days before the lockdown. Wow. Oh my word. Yes. Oh,

talk us through that for a couple of months then. Well, I listened to this show a lot actually. I found it quite helpful with that beginning bit when I was like, what?

But not the later episodes. Okay. Okay. Whatever. I was fine then. Yeah, I was fine. The early ones really, I listen to this show a lot, actually. I found it quite helpful, that beginning bit, when I was like, what? But not the later episodes. OK. Sure, OK. Whatever, yeah. I was fine then. Yeah, I was fine. The early ones were really, I don't know, they had the, you know, freshness about them. Yeah, yeah.

OK, wait a minute. It's a difficult second album, OK? Yeah, difficult. It's difficult. No, she was about three-ish when the lockdown happened. And I was pregnant when it all began. No, sorry. When it was like sort of the January, it was like, oh, what's this?

And then he had to be an elective C-section because he was so massive. No, sorry, when it was like sort of the January, it was like, oh, what's this? And then he had to be elective C-section because he was so massive. Like he is also a giant, a giant cherub. You need to imagine a giant drunk cherub. How big was he? He was nearly 10 pounds. And I, you've met me. I'm not at all big person.

I'm a small person. Yeah, you're not a 10 pound carrier, Cariad. I'm telling you now. No, I'm not. I'm not. My body was not made. You meet some people, you go, you can handle that. She can take a 10 pounder, but i'm telling you no i'm not i'm not my body was not made no you meet some people you go you can handle that she can take a 10 pounder but not you karen i don't think they made me go in for scans every single week because they refused to believe i didn't have gestational diabetes they kept saying who tested you this can't be right

they said he's so big he's so big this is mad i was like stop saying this he's a freak yeah and then the last scan she went what are your plans i was like don't worry this to a friend of a woman. He's a freak. Yeah. And then with the last scan, she went, what are your plans? I was like, don't worry, I'm going to have a lecture. She was like, I have to say, I have to strongly advise you not to try and do this naturally. Well, if I say it's vaginally not naturally, but also I was like, no, don't worry. She was like, God, thank God, because that, yeah, you can't, no one should. All right, good luck. Okay.

But yeah. So it's vaginally the correct term, not naturally. Because naturally sounds like, so I've had two C-sections. And naturally makes it sound like, well, you did it the weird way, didn't you? The freaky way, not natural. So you're supposed to say vaginally or C-section. But they all say to you, did you have it naturally? And you're you're like no i had it with the evil of science i do apologize i just find i don't know why but maybe it's because i'm immature but just starting the word vag

innerly i know it's not great is it you've got to get to the innerly so quick if you're a doctor say vaginally like vag is such a terrible word but like as long as you get i don't like it but i equally don't want someone to constantly say to me oh you didn't have it naturally because then you're like well i aliens didn't come down and take me away it was like did you have it naturally or did the magic of science save your life would be a better way yes that's nice that's a nice way yeah maybe we don't need to make vaginally naturalr. Yeah, vaginally. We need to change C-sections. Make it sound magic. I think vaginally needs a rebrand. Yeah, it does.

I get the message, but I think it's a tougher syllable. It's a tougher syllable. You keep saying, Rob. Yeah, stop saying it. No, no. I've heard the word vag from your... I don't like saying vag. I keep saying vag.

Stop saying it. Stop saying it, Josh. Sorry, this is very childish. It's all right. Can I ask a question? Is your husband big? Yes, he's six foot four. Right, that makes sense.

But they literally don't care. You go, come on, look at him. I kept saying, he'd come to scans and I'd be, well, I mean, it's not surprising. And they'd go, yeah, we only take your height and weight into consideration. And I was like, this isn't a virgin birth. I didn't do this by myself. Like, look at the size of him. Honestly, you scan every week.

They were like, oh, yeah, maybe that's why, because he's quite big. And I was like, yeah, think. So, yeah, he was massive. I do find that happens sometimes. Like, it happens in our family where Lou's mum will always go, oh, my God, your daughters, they look so much like, and she'll list, like, her children and her family.

And I go, oh, yeah, but I think she looks a little bit like my brother did when he was... She'd go, nah, nah. No. Nah, nah, nah, nah. I don't know what... I know they came out of Lou's, but... She's pure warts.

Your children are pure warts, Rob. OK, OK, I've got that. Whatever you want, Teresa. Whatever you want. No problem. I know. I had friends do that to me as well, when my daughter was young.

They'd go, she just looks like your husband. And I'd be like, it's a bit like me. No, nothing of you. Can't see it. Absolutely can't absolutely can't see it and you go wow i feel shit when you say well what i used to get is so when they were badly behaved because a bit of the dad coming out now oh what so they don't look like me when they're a prick it's yes yeah yeah yeah i've got loads of adhd in my family so when they're like really hyper everyone's like oh well we know where that's from oh great thanks guys I'm the same with depression though in my family

what mental health problem are you bringing to the table yeah what damage have I put into their body DNA wise before the world's even had an attempt at them

it's not fair is it because in the olden days you wouldn't know you'd just be like oh they're a bit boisterous nothing to do with me but now you're like oh no we've all been diagnosed

oh he just likes a drink he's jolly he's very and then he does get sad a bit boisterous, nothing to do with me. But now you're like, oh no, we've all been diagnosed. Oh, he just likes a drink. He's jolly. And then he does get sad, doesn't he? He gets a bit sad when he's had too much. He shouldn't have too much, that's it. So what was your sub on the percentile thing? Because I love that word as well.

It's the only word you ever hear with babies, the percentile. 99. 99 percentile. 99 percentile. Whoa, the big one. The big one. And then 95th for weight. 99 percentile. 99 percentile. Whoa, the big one. The big one. And then 95th for weight. Really?

Yeah. And he's still, you have to go in there too, you know, to get like measured. And the woman was like, oh, I have to, I'll have to keep rolling out my paper because you have to lie him down to measure them. So she's three and a half years older than him. He's nearly as tall as her. They wear the same size shoes. So that's my brother, Joe. He's like six foot three, six foot four,

but also just like, just a big guy, big shoulders, big arms, big hands, just big. And when my mum took him when he was about two to the doctors to measure him and they measure their head, their height. She tried to measure his head. I was like, oh, the graph's not big enough. My mum was like, okay.

She went, well, I can't make his head smaller. So you're going to have to get a bigger bit of paper on. You're going to have to work. So I think it was like the hundred and fifth. Oh my God. Yeah, I can't make his head smaller, so you're going to have to get a bigger bit of baby roll. You're going to have to work it. So I think it was like the hundred and fifth. Oh my God. Yeah, it's got a giant head. Yeah, that's what I've had. What's funny about having a giant one

is it makes everyone really happy. Like nurses and midwives, they love you. Oh, he's a lovely big one. Oh, he's a big one, isn't he? He's good. When he had his injections, they went, they don't cry, big ones. They don't cry, they're lovely.

And it's such a genius. Oh, was it true? Because because their thighs are so fat so when they put the needle in it's just they don't really notice it happening as much because obviously thin ones it's like it's more painful yeah and obviously they're worried obviously it's horrible if your baby's underweight is stressful whereas if you're yeah overweight they literally would take one look at him and go oh he's fine isn't he oh big strong boy yeah big strong he's a big strong big strong lad and i'd be like what would you say if he was a girl would you be like big girl big strong girl big girl yeah i remember when i first had him i was trying i had all this trouble with feeding him in the hospital and this midwife came around and you know you're trying to like not give

too much hold you know all this stuff she just looked at me was like do you want me to do it and i was like yeah okay like she just got this massive bottle for me like the ready-made one stuck a teat on it and then just shoved it and he downed it like a pint and she went he's hungry she was like you just feed him and then he slept for like four hours after and i thought yeah okay as long as you kept him fed he's fine that's happened to my mum because obviously we had a giant one giant joe at the end you know what it's like we got a giant one and when my mum was trying couldn't like keep up with feeding him so went on to bottle feeding yeah and even then like with the formula wasn't enough when it was about a month old was crushing up rusk biscuits

into the formula to try and fill him up yeah that's what my mum said to do because she did that with my brother she was like just put some baby rice in i was like mom i don't think they do that anymore all the forums are telling you you're evil don't do that but yeah he just eats and eats and he is like he can push me over he was having a tantrum i bent down to try and speak to him he's like you know and he just did a shove so strong i just topp toppled. Just went straight over. Amazing. So how tall are you, Carrie? I'm only 5'3", to be fair. He's half as tall as me already.

What the fuck am I going to do when he gets older? I can't. Literally, I've decided he can do what he likes. Yeah. I have no control over. I'm like, I'm controlling the older one. She's small. She's like me.

She's really tiny. So that's my focus. She's going to be all my focus. Because I can't. You can't deal with him. Imagine him coming in drunk when he's 18 big lump oh my god carrying him up the stairs i just can't i just leave him at the bottom leave him at the bottom yeah with four pints of milk just leave him there got the biscuit i feel bad because people do and also they do that thing

they assume he's older yeah because he's oh my mom got really protective over that well he's older yeah because he's so massive my mum got really protective over that well he's only two but he looks like he's four they expect too much of him they expect yeah they do I used to think

how much they fucking expected of him he's only four isn't it like he should be doing the dinner no but they talk to you in that way

and also because his speech like he can talk but he sounds like a nearly three year old and I see people go oh oh oh oh oh

and I go oh he's only two oh right oh oh okay they're like oh why is he speaking like that or um but yeah like he's sort of like a strong man in the playground he gets all the big kids on the roundabout then he pushes them all and if you try and say do you want to get on he's like no I push and then he pushes like seven five-year-olds just round and round and round and they're like, yeah, he goes so fast. Oh, wow.

I've got a terrible feeling that you're going to be stood on the side of a rugby pitch in 10 years. Oh, I don't, I know. I've already thought that might happen, yeah. Are you in trendy East London? Where do you live? No, I'm in much more boring North London.

Yeah, that could get a bit posh boy rugger, couldn't it, out there in North London? Yeah, well... If you're big at school, like the biggest kids at school, in PE, they were just the best at everything. Well, we don't... We're not sporty.

We don't offer any sports to him, do you reckon? No, but he's... Rugby players aren't sporty either, Carrie. Rugby players aren't sporty, they're just big. Well, I don't know,

like me and my husband are particularly... I'm not too... He won't be offended. He's really, really the anti-sport, you know? Right, like me and my husband are particularly, I'm not too, he won't be offended. He's really, really the anti-sport, you know? Right, yeah. And he was massive at school and they said the same thing. They would say, please come and play rugby. And he would just stand there like reading his poetry at the side

and they'd be like, run, why aren't you running? He'd be like, I don't like it, it's very violent. So we're hoping he'll go down that road. Oh man, I hated rugby. It was just the worst thing in the world. I remember some girls in my year campaigned so that we would do rugby and I was absolutely outraged.

I was like, why? It's the one good thing that we don't have to do. I was so pissed off. That's the problem with certain like, feminism and equality. You can talk yourself into a situation you don't really want, but it feels like the right thing to do, isn't it?

I was like, guys, this is awful. And we went and did it one term in the mud and I was like, take me back to gymnastics. Like, fine. I cannot cope with it. Oh, can't we do bat and swirling in the hall? Yes! With the heating on.

So, yeah, who knows? He's quite sporty at the moment, actually. So maybe he will be. I don't know. Oh, God. You just got to accept it, haven't you? Like, get what you're given. Yeah. It's so funny how, like, middle-class'm like middle class families but oh god he's got into sport and then we've got working class one of those he's only reading fucking poetry at the pit

i know what we did say we were talking about it i was like look if he's sporty i would never discourage it i'd be like great that's your thing because my daughter is really into gymnastics and i wasn't at all. And it's just that thing of like, you have to then learn a whole vocabulary of how something works. And how do you encourage it? Because you didn't do it. I grew up doing loads of, I was like full on dance kid. Like I have made her go to ballet.

But she prefers gymnastics. So is there a big difference between, because my daughter's into, she likes gymnastics, but she loves Strictly as well. Yeah. So I thought, oh, they're in the same area. Not really. No. They'd get annoyed with you if you said that. Kind of they are when they're kids.

They're in the kind of same ballpark, right? In the same way. Yeah, they're tight clothes. You have to be athletic and they all shag each other. That's just what you want your child to join. No, no, no, not that. I mean, talking as, you know, an adult, not, you an adult not you know come on yeah no it's a bit different i guess it's like if you said to a footballer oh it's just rugby isn't it but you put it on the ground they'd be like a bit different

so you were are you taking your daughter to gymnastics classes yeah she her friend went then she started but i never did gymnastics it was like to be fair there just wasn't one where i lived there was dance so that's what i did and because she's so small she's like really good and like really really flexible and so like so she's had loads of encouragement sort of mice and men you're asking we call him George sometimes

easy George easy Lenny yeah that's what it looks like she's kind of like the small smart one and then he's like very amenable and large and I do worry that she's like the evil genius. Amenable and large. Yeah. They must never listen to this, right?

You'll delete that before they go. Yeah, by the time they're old enough. I'd love it if he's a poet and one of his quotes is amenable and large, Carrie Adloy, mother. At the moment, I haven't seen much poetry. I've seen amenable and large at the moment the gymnastics yeah could i ask you what's your gymnastics medal situation are you constantly paying for pointless medals no her friend competes like all the time he goes like all around the

country like and you know they're six and six yeah and they do these proper competitions but my daughter bless her she's really good but we've hit this um she won't practice anything so i've said to her she was like i didn't get a medal and i was like well her best friend like lives in our block and i said look she practices every night you know she does her routines you practice you want to do that oh no and i was like well you don't get a medal i said i'm not pushing it i'm just like look if you want medals i'll help you and we'll practice but then you can't moan about not having medals because you're not doing any practice i said you want to watch telly or medal telly so i was like okay well then you don't get a medal this is fine my seven-year-old refuses all clubs oh really just like no don't want to do that nah

she's very outgoing and goes to birthday parties and she'll get involved yeah yeah just doesn't want to do organized fun no i think she gets a bit overwhelmed with people a little bit where yeah she's a school day and she loves doing it right so she's concentrating whatever the teacher's saying she's taking it in and she's trying to do it and then i think at the end of the day she's like i just want to sit me home for a bit yeah a bit of time fair play she'd like go off to her room for a bit of quiet time yeah my daughter said that yesterday. I was like, do you want to...

It was after dinner and I was like, do you want to draw? And she was like, I just like TV. Yeah, they love it. I was like, of course. Yeah, because she does want to switch off. She's had a whole fucking day of people and people. Yeah. And she just wants to stare at the TV.

Like, I want to stare at the TV two hours later. Yeah. If you know what I mean. My daughter wasn't into them, but lockdown is what got her because she couldn't do anything for so long so then when i said to her do you want to do this she was like i want to do this and i want to do this because she was like i can't believe i get to do things and i think if we hadn't had lockdown she would be quite anti-club but because of that when she started school we joined like all this stuff because she was so excited and now now it's like, she'll go, oh, I don't want to do that last week.

And I'm like, tough shit. You've signed up. We paid for a term. You're doing it. But then once they've paid and you're forcing them through it because you feel you should get your money's worth. That's not a good position.

It's the loveless. That's childhood. I'm sorry. No, no, that's childhood. That's childhood. Deal with it. I'll just go, look, go. And then I don't really like it.

Try once more. If you don't like it then I don't really like it try once more if you don't like it you don't have to go because they've not agreed the contract that's not how you become a ballerina guys that's not how you do it

you go until you cry until you hate it yeah I just sort of think if they hate it what's the yeah no what are you getting

your money's worth just really traumatising your child I'd say the 10 weeks of kiddie kicks has put my daughter off football for life. 10 weeks? Oh, yeah, yeah.

I love football. I have a week off after about four. But my daughter's very annoying because she'll say she doesn't want to go and then if you get her to the building, she runs in and you're like, are you okay? Yeah, fine, leave me alone.

So we have this thing of like, again, my husband's very like, we don't want to push her. And I'm like, we don't want to push her. But also, if you then go, okay, we'll go home then. She gets home she gets home she goes oh i wish i would have gone it's quite good if they're there longer as well isn't it at school yeah it's handy that helps is it a gymnastics where you watch or is it a gymnastics where you sit outside on your phone

no you watch but you can also be on your phone who's watching we do sometimes fight about who's taking her to gymnastics even there don't watch Don't watch. No, you kind of... She's in the younger group. I think when she's in the older group. And so she's on her phone. She's on her phone. I'm on her phone. She's on her phone.

Carrie-Anne's doing rolling polies. She's on her phone. She's on her phone doing backflips. Big boys in the corner, bench pressing a bench. He's not allowed to come anymore because he was too disruptive on all the equipment. There's like no barriers. He didn't understand.

It looks like soft play. He's been barred from gymnastics. Well,, no barriers. He didn't understand. It looks like soft play. He's been barred from gymnastics. Well, he didn't. They didn't bar him, but we had to. He literally was just like... And, again, so jolly. He was just running in like... Yeah, well, it's hard at that age,

because I was watching an assembly today, and there was a kid at the back crying. Your daughter's? Yeah, it was my daughter's assembly. Lou just bought me a coffee. Thanks, Lou. Love you, babe. That's nice. And that's love. That's love. We just bought me a coffee. Thanks, Lou. Love you, babe. That's nice.

And that's love. That's love. We just made a rule. If we, what is it, divide and conquer. So one of us would take her to gym. One of us takes him to run around the playground. Because it was just, because he's so strong. Is he really strong or are you particularly weak, Carrie-Anne?

Because this is something we've got to try and get the level up. I mean, I am not a strong person, but I'm very strong-willed. As in, like, if I don't want something to happen, I'm normally very stubborn, but honest to God. So the other kids watching, they'll be like, right, can't you know, Sebastian, come and sit down, I've got some snacks. And they'll go, oh, OK, Mummy. He just goes, no, thanks, Mum, and then just runs.

Or he'll grab the snacks off you and then run. Or if I try and say, can I sit on my lap? He won't be strapped into a buggy. He's just, he's a tornado so you don't bring the tornado to gymnastics camp because it's not fair

yes basically can I ask one more question on this yeah as a veteran of the park

oh sure what's it like at the play park with a I suppose he just feels like an older kid at the play park right

yeah they just treat him like one of the gang, because we live in, you know, we know what London's like. It's a series of villages, so you know most of the kids in your local playground, and they all go to her school. So they're just like, oh, he's the little brother. He's part of the gang.

So he runs around with the bigger ones, but then he gets very sad when a game happens that he doesn't understand, or she'll say, he's following me. Stop him. He's coming this way. We're all going into the funhouse to play a secret game and then he's like why won't play why not why not play just go your speech isn't good enough because you're younger and you can't

keep up with the premise of the game and it ruins it for the older kids now fucking sit there stop breaking things you brute but do you have this though because i think you relate to the one that you are in the order so i'm a younger sister so i always feel quite i really feel for him oh do you and i find it harder because i'm like why don't just let him play come on because i'm basically saying to my older brother why don't you let me play so i'm like way more on the younger sibling side and i think oh it's hard for her as well like you know just because your brother wouldn't let you play he-man for ages. I'm a middle child and that's why I've not gone for a third.

Right. Interesting. Because this happens. But my brother was six years older and I remember he was very particular about his toys and like playing on his own. And I remember, though, my mum would like build a fort around him in the front room so he could play with his toys in the corner. And I wasn't allowed to go over there, which I don't think is very good parenting. And I think it creates this feast. Just FYI, Mum. I sold it to her face as well.

Looking back, I don't think that was the best way to deal with it. What do you wish she would have done? What do you think would have been better? I think to explain to the older child that let them play a little bit. It's different if there's a big group doing something like that but just playing with some toys i think you have to get the older kid to sort of you know we have to do it with our daughter sometimes because she's got younger sister and her cousin's younger sometimes she'll get frustrated and you have to i feel like it's

be like oh no look i understand that yeah they're younger they don't know yeah yeah yes or you go i tell you what then why don't you go and do that game and i'll take the younger one to do a different thing that they like to do yeah kind of thing yeah yeah yeah that's what you have to do isn't it yeah yeah that's what i'd probably suggest but it's very awkward when you have kids and you talk to your parents about the way they parented yes oh my god and then because it actually comes up because why don't you do that and i'll go well no i don't think that's the right thing to do and she'll be like why not and i'll go well we go back to a few of your decisions shall we

do you want to talk to my therapist yeah because I am and it's costing me money so how about you have a little chat with the therapist

for a bit and then we'll sort of meet in the middle yeah we do do lots of sharing and actually they're pretty good I have to say they have their moments obviously

if it was a moment it would just smash her head in wouldn't he? Well, this is amazing. It would be a fair fight. They haven't realised yet that he's bigger and stronger. He's the little brother.

So at the moment, he still thinks she is in charge. And I don't know when it's going to come. A lot of parents say that to me at the playground. They're like,

oh, one day, he's going to push her over, isn't he? Because at the moment, she might push him and then he'll be like, oh,

she pushed me. And he has pushed her and she was like because he's just so he just gave her like what he considered a small shove yeah honestly she's like a wisp she's like a fairy she's really really small so she just went push she was like mommy he pushed me right over and i'm like yeah he's he's fucking is it like when toby mcguire realizes he's spider man yes exactly exactly but that didn't twig in their minds when that happened they haven't got there yet because she's quicker isn't she like you know she's sick so she'll outsmart him with something and he'll be like oh i don't understand but when he realizes because that's the thing i'm younger sibling i have an older brother who was much bigger, so he could always beat me with physical things. I would never catch up, but it's going to be interesting

to see what happens when he overtakes her. Something that my parents did, which I don't know if this will help or not, but my brother was two and a half years younger. You've already told me that they made some bad decisions, so I'll take this one. I'd say different decisions. So my brother's two and a half years younger than me, the giant one, big Joe.

So he was always my size. Is Joe younger than you? Oh, I see. There you go. Big boy. Blimey. So he was always my size, really, from when I was four and two, like the same height.

And then even maybe a little bit taller at points when he had growth spurts and I had growth spurts. And then when he got to 16, he sort of shot up to like six foot three and I stayed at around like five foot eight and three quarters. But what my mum and dad did when he was like six and eight boxing day we'd fight each other in the front room with boxing gloves on okay okay watch how was this only just keep talking keep talking yeah i'm gonna find a photo of that yeah so at christmas we'd get shorts on pair of boxing gloves each have a fight in the front room,

and my dad would ref. Wow. And how did this help? What was the positive? Entertainment for the older family members. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. And were people, like, goading you on? Like, in a car park?

Come on, Big Joe, come on! Yeah, but it was all quite sort of good fun, in a way. Yeah, I love it. And were you wearing, like, proper boxing shorts? Not proper shorts, but gloves. I've got... But you were topless. I've got the photo somewhere. We were topless, yeah. good fun in a way yeah i love it and were you wearing like proper boxing shorts not proper shorts but black gloves i've got i've got but you're topless i've got the photo somewhere we were topless yeah just two topless children knocking seven bells of shit out of each other but then it'll be going but you're older rob i'm like he's fucking massive i see so that was the

the two skills you're two years older but he's bigger who will win age or strength yes they call it a fair fight. Yeah, I see. It's all done on weight classes, isn't it? Yeah, of course. You don't get two boxers in the ring and go, but what's the age difference? It's two years. It doesn't matter.

No, exactly. It never comes up in boxing. Do you know what I mean? It's two school years. He's year 11, mate. Come on. This is not even fair. At that age, when someone's pubed up and you have a,

that is unfair in that age. Me and, I'm best mates of Pascoe's, you know, and, like, when we're talking about people, we still say, do you know the year above, though? Oh, that makes sense, yeah. Are they two years below? Like, we're still talking school years about everybody. She's two years below.

Oh, I thought she seemed young. Yeah, that makes sense. Still categorising it. We're not just going to talk to you about your massive child. I found the boxing photo. Here we go. Oh, OK. Well, we are, actually.

I'm actually doing something I think is quite boomery. I'm taking a photo of my computer screen to show you on Zoom. All right, granddad. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that's... Oh, my God. Amazing.

That is so good. That's my dad in the background watching. Well, you have to obviously tweet that so people can see. Yeah, yeah. I'll send it to you. Can we put that on our Instagram? Yeah, we can put it on our Instagram. Cariad.

Yes. Here's a change into some promo from a boxing photo. Yes. Was it during the lockdown that you wrote your book? Yeah. With your two children there? Yes. Your book, You Are Not Alone.

Now, if people don't know you're one of the the original queens of podcasting the og the og podcasters yes you are the pele of podcast whereas we're obviously messy and run out how long you've been griefing on the podcast not grieving let's not get into that part but an actual podcast uh seven years seven years years yeah believable the end of 2016 yeah grief cast yeah grief cast so i interview comedians about their experiences of grief and death because my dad died when i was 15 so i've been talking about it for a long time and then in 2016 if you remember everyone was kind of getting podcasts yeah and i had lots of comedian friends because there's only really

comedians who are doing it yes and i literally was walking down the road and i thought oh everyone's got podcasts what would I do and I thought oh I'd probably talk to people about death and then I laughed because I thought that's a terrible idea and here we are seven years on yeah I thought oh my god that's terrible and I thought oh no one would listen to that and um I was pregnant with my daughter and so not much acting work when you are pregnant because no one wants to insure you. Fact. No one likes to admit it's true. So I thought, oh, well, maybe I'll start to podcast now. It's got some free time.

And she was two weeks overdue. And so in that two weeks, I'd recorded four interviews with Pascoe, Adam Buxton, Jade Adams and producer John Harvey. So I had this two weeks late child. And, you know, I don't know if you were late, like just massive and just so bored. And so in that time, I learned how to edit and upload and did it on sound so if she'd been on time grief cast wouldn't exist but because she was so late i was like oh i might as well do it then i'm sat here yeah waiting that's amazing isn't it because i think you have those little moments in your life where it's gone to huge success you've got a book deal now and the book's coming out it's happening it's out at the moment and you could be negative about it of like oh it's overdue why is this happening

to me I need the baby to come so I can get back to work blah blah blah but actually you know I say Josh just with time like we don't know enough about what's going to happen to know if it's a good thing or a bad thing but actually what could be a bad thing on paper turned out to be the best thing that happened for you and your career yeah it was amazing obviously I was like so bored so and then it ended up being like emergency c-sections it was all like so stressful but I think what I did without thinking about it was I created a job I could do with a child so then once I had her and obviously then I started getting all these emails from people being like oh my god I didn't know other people

felt grief was like this I thought I was the only one who felt like this I thought I was having a breakdown but it's actually grief so I started thought oh i could carry on doing this and this was something that worked with having a newborn yeah so i was able to go and record and i was able to edit at night so it became like a perfect job for having a small baby i mean not you know there's other ideas or having child care but it definitely worked and then yeah with the second one so i got the book deal in 2019. I was pregnant. I should say about the podcast, if people haven't heard it also, because it's brilliant because it's not like sad and depressing to listen to.

It's not too bleak, I would say. You talk about the subject in a much broader way than that. Yeah. I try and say like it's a really honest, practical chat about grief. So my goal with it always was that when you listen to an episode, at the end of it, you felt maybe 10% better. So I never wanted you to think oh i feel worse now like god that was depressing yeah we aim for five percent on this podcast don't we i like them to feel worse that's why i interviewed comedians because comedians make jokes at inappropriate times

and so i was like if we talk about grief i know they'll crank jokes and then you'll have an hour where you've laughed a bit and also you've you've talked about it you said this how I felt but also there's jokes and um I talk to other people now as well but I still love the episodes comedians because it's just a space where you can be like this was really shit it's one of the worst things that have happened to me but also this was quite funny and I got through it like this and people find that very helpful when you join the club as we say on the show when you have just lost someone very important to you it feels like i'm never going to feel happy again i'm never going to find a way out of this and to hear other people on the journey who were

like look i did make it through i don't know how it was difficult but i did it you kind of go oh okay this is possible to get through this beginning of grief i was going to say with the grief thing it's weird because i think people sort of think oh there'll be initial period of feeling like that and then you slowly get over it or sometimes it's longer than you expect but then even like years later it can crop up in different ways where something can slightly trigger it or for you when you lost your dad but then you have your own children your brain automatically starts thinking oh you know when you first time he would have met them and things like that. So it's sort of a, it's a never ending thing

that sort of will always orbit you as a person, isn't it? Yeah, massively. And I'm so like, it's so nice to hear you say that because so many people don't think that. And I get interviewed so much and they're like, oh, you know, when do you get over it? And I'm like, you don't. Question one, when do you get over it?

Yeah, oh my God. Honestly, honestly, I write about it in a book. And how, I need a 10 day plan. yeah exactly and it's that thing of like what i try and explain to you was like i don't wake up every day weeping and i don't like have framed picture of him like you know surrounded in black lace that i cry to every morning like most days i'm fine but if you say to me oh is that a sad thing that happened to you it's like yeah of course it is my dad is like you know fundamental part of who i am and what we say now with grief is not that you're looking for it to like go away but like life grows around it basically so you always have it you carry it with

you and especially that's a massive thing for my listeners when they have kids because it just suddenly you're if you've lost a parent even if you've lost a sibling as well because suddenly you might see two you're you've got two kids and you see them interacting. You think, oh, that's what I've lost. And with my dad not being around, I was really close to my grandpa.

So when I had my daughter, I was like, oh, she, she doesn't get a grandpa. Like that was, he was like this huge part of my life. And she gets an amazing grandma.

Like my mom is like proper, proper involved with my kids. Thank God. Cause we need the help just for strength more than anything so she is very yeah bloody hell he's strong isn't he he's strong every time every time he's a big strong boy getting down the beckett boxing gym mate so yeah i think you do have to reframe the grief every time that might be like if you don't have kids you know there's other things you might just get to the age they were when they died or you

might move away or they sell the family home there's all these things that happen as you get older i think it's quite subconscious as well sometimes one sunday i was really down you know sometimes like i just feel so down and fed up and then i was sort of driving to work then basically i was driving past like a certain area and I remembered that's where one of my friends died and yeah I realized it was the anniversary but it happened so long ago and it's sort of like but like my subconscious had sort of joined the dots but the rest of me hadn't and it wasn't too late that day and I was like well is that just a coincidence or is that deeper and it sort of comes out on its own but I was like wow what a weird coincidence it was I drove past that place and then that was on the day I was like blah it's what a weird coincidence. It was funny. I drove past that place and then that was on the day.

I was like, blah. It's like your brain sometimes gives you just enough of what you can handle. So your brain sometimes is like, it's going to give you sadness. Then you're going to drive you past the place. And then later in the day, you're going to remember. Because if you had all that. You've got to go do a tour show. So I won't give you full grief right now.

But on the drive home, you're going to be pretty sad. The people of Margate still need to get their money's worth. I think with grief especially, I've definitely had that. The things that like sort of don't occur to you, especially after I had my first child. It was a bit easier the second time because you're kind of like, okay, I've done this. I do know he's not here.

He's not going to see them. It's still hard, but like you're a bit more prepared for it. But yeah, with my first one, I think it's not when they first arrive because obviously you're just dealing with the shit show of like newborn, but it's as they get older or the nice things happen. the big thing i wrote about it in the book actually was um it's like being in a playground and seeing a grandpa and you know when grandpa's like they always push the kids too high and like he was like not looking and he was pushing there was a woman on the other side being like oh john oh be careful oh she's falling out and i was like like, oh, that, like a man, older man being a bit like throwing you too high

or chucking you about a bit. And I was like, oh yeah, that's that energy. You know, you just don't get that. And then I think what you realise, and this probably comes back to what we're saying, is you realise they are going to have a different childhood to you and that's okay. Like you don't have to recreate it.

You can take good bits. And, you know, she has a really nice relationship with my mom like they're really close they're bigger like an old married couple so yeah but i think it's because it's like they don't know any different where yes i grew up my dad's parents died when i was like well one before i was born then one when i was like really young and then my granddad died when i was really young and my nan's still alive but we don't really see her that much. I've not really had grandparents growing up. I just don't have really many memories. We didn't see my nan that much either. So it was like, I don't really have ever had grandparents,

but I don't feel like I've missed out. Because I never had it like, it wasn't like, oh, I'm going to stay at grandparents for the weekend or get taken on a day trip. That never happened. But I don't feel like I missed out. The only thing I do have though is I'm not as sympathetic to older people as people that had grandparents in their life

other people see an old person and they go oh bless her she's just and i'm like get out of fucking way come on oh i feel like that when you know somebody says oh my dad passed away and you're like how old and they say like you know oh he's 85 85 it's not bad though isn't it it's not top trumps but if it was i'd win but i should say obviously in the show there's no grief hierarchy just in case people know there is a little bit but my whole book is about like don't judge people but i'm just making it up obviously everyone judges everyone a little bit now and again carrier don't beat yourself yeah yeah yeah well the book as opposed to the podcast it's not just like for someone who's just lost someone presumably there's something there for everyone right yeah definitely I mean it's definitely I talk to people like as I say who've

joined the club but I wanted it to be for anyone who's yeah you know willing to have these thoughts about like what am I going to do or planned or if you know someone who's grieving how can you help them and it's a mix it's a mix of partly it's like my sort of memories of my grief but also it's like stuff that's come up on the show again and again so I guess like what you've had yeah after 200 episodes you're like this keeps happening people keep feeling bad about grieving incorrectly so I wrote a whole chapter about like why there is no right way to grieve and why the grief psychologists say that and yeah when you do a podcast you sort of accidentally do research and so you're like i've accidentally spoken to 200 people about their grief as if i'm like a research scientist and so i kind of tried to collate all the really useful

things like the fact that you know so much of what we think is correct grief is victorian and like we can just kind of throw it away we don't need that anymore digital grief like how people are grieving now when they can have so many memories on your phone like and how do you process that and the fact that yeah your life goes around it you're not looking to get over it so i tried to put anything useful into it so it's like a very hopefully useful practical and i promise not that bleak that's available now isn't it you are not alone it's out now yes isn't it? You are not alone. It's out now, yes. Amazing. Oh, one thing on that. What's the kind of, when they're kids who've lost people, what would be, say when a grandparent dies and you've got a young child.

Yes. Like, what would your advice be on that? I mean, advice is a weird word, isn't it? Me and Rob get asked for advice. No, no, I know you. I love watching Josh trying to ask a serious question. He gets really panicked. Yeah.

Well, I'm interested, but I'm also really... And then his hair goes big also how big are the shits your big son does that's what i'm easier with you don't want to know you don't want to know you honestly don't know we basically just look at each other when we go i don't want to talk about it if i'm like did he do one is it all right and he goes i don't want to talk about it let's just move flat let's just move flat so when it comes to talk about death with children um we talk about this a lot on the show and the biggest thing is to try and be honest now you don't have

to be brutal um they're dead but try not to say things like they've gone to a better place they're asleep we just won't see them for a long time anything that hides it is really confusing and kids will they'll do two plus two equals seven you know so you have to because if you say they've gone to sleep they get afraid of sleeping if you say they've gone away they're looking for them like there's lots of stuff where children then say they take it literally so the best thing to say you know they've died that means we won't be able to see them again and that's really sad and we're going to really miss them but we know that they loved us so much and we can still like that's what we've got is their love so you're trying to get them to understand

that you won't see someone again because i think honestly pre 10 years old they really can't conceive what forever means you know if you say well we're going next week we're going on holiday in two weeks i'm like when when when so time is really tricky for them so you're just trying to say like we won't see them next week we'll never see them again but we have all these other memories of them but it's important to try and say died or dead and that's what death means and and to acknowledge it's really sad we're all very sad and you may see me being sad and i'm gonna cry because i love them too so to allow like it's okay to be sad about these things but any kind of hiding it a child would just go oh it's such a terrible thing death that my parent can't even say the word therefore i must be scared

of it because they're showing me it's so terrifying they won't even say the word lesson learned it's terrifying so you're trying to make it look it's not terrifying it's sad that's what we're actually afraid of is the sadness yeah not to sort of minimize that but we had a hamster that died and it's actually quite good practice with a pet it's great that's why they say have pets was really old anyway and we were getting a dog and we thought tell you what my mate wanted a hamster for his door i said why don't you take the cage and the hamster and then you've got that because this poor hamster don't need a dog sniffing at it you know all the time yeah so they said oh we need space for the dog so hamster woody's gonna go and live with jack blah blah blah and then obviously woody died so the other

day they went where's woody i went oh i went well we went to jack's didn't he and they went yeah and then my head was like and he's still there and i was like no he's not still there he's not gonna have this hamster that lives for 50 years and i was like oh he's um and i was like oh god i didn't know what that would and he's dead really he's dead and i was like yeah hamster's dead they get old and they only live for a little bit of time and and they're like all right and then they'll sort of run off and obviously it's just a hamster they haven't seen for ages but even with that my brain was like how can i protect them but actually you're not protecting them i know just be honest i think you know as hard as it is yeah you gotta be honest and the first time you say it like the first time my daughter was

like where's your daddy and i was like he's he's dead when you say it the first time your mouth everything your body's like don't say it and then because that's what i think is good like the more you practice it so obviously she knows now and we talk about it and my husband both his parents are dead so we say a lot yeah they're not here they're dead and she'll go oh your dad's dead isn't he i'm just watching cbps okay yes he is just yeah you never seen him do you want um i would tell you what happened to my husband he was in the playground and some kids are surprised to see a dad. Do you ever have this?

They're like, what are you doing here? So this kid was following around. I was like, why are you here? Why isn't the mummy here? Where do your kids go to school? 1973? Yeah, I know. It's going on in North London.

He always gets it. He said, oh, well, you know, their mum's at work because I'm here. And the kid was like trying to take this in. All right. Okay. And then the kid said to him, well, where's your mummy went oh she's dead and he went oh ran off on the playground went okay like also how do all children know that's the playground chant tune when do you all get taught this so yeah you do get brutal moments but it's true so i always think

like you have this moment of like yeah and then actually it's fine yeah it feels like oh that's a bad thing yeah but what a brilliant thing though from what obviously was a traumatic time for you to turn into something that's so positive and that will help people and yes there'll be another 15 year old out there somewhere reading your book going wow that's that's helpful. Hopefully, that's the plan. You're hoping there's a 15-year-old with a dead dad, Carrie. Mate, I know there is. That's a weird thing to have. Wow, I'd say a book sale's a book sale.

Look, you know, she needs the help. Also, very happy with the release date of January, the saddest month. Well, no, no, and then they announced Harry had his book out before. When it got leaked, I was so relieved. I thought, that's good good because it's not going to crush my book so much also a bit of grief on topic it totally absolutely my god that kid get him on the podcast carrier who was it richard herring tweeted it was like oh who do you think he'll go to me or buxton and i was like excuse me

if anyone it should be we've got that is who harry needs to talk to yes please anyway so to be published why have i put to be published by bloomsbury i'm literally reading out january 19th it's out it's out it's out it's out it's out now audio book did you do the audio book i did do the audio book yeah and another quick one for our listeners is there an episode you'd recommend that maybe talks a bit more like around children or parents and stuff like that that would be helpful no worries if that's a bit at the top of your head the episodes are free she thinks they should buy the book yeah no i would say buy the book buy the book it's all covered in there it comes up a lot actually well normally what i say to people

good like gateway episodes are the ones that are very funny and i have to say romesh did one just before christmas and it is such a funny lovely episode about his dad and i really recommend that one when people are like oh i don't want to listen to it it's a bit depressing i'm like start here and you'll see it's just someone being very honest but romesh's episodes his dad is what a character i know what romesh and his brother had to do after his dad passed away as well is hilariously yeah funny even in a sad situation yeah um but yeah there's a couple of episodes that actually probably is an episode with a grief psychologist called julia samuel who is an amazing amazing woman she's written a book called grief works

and her episodes with her she talks about how to talk about it and stuff like that so yeah listen to that one romesh don't need any help no no, Romesh doesn't need any help. It's very funny. You don't need a leg up. Yeah, I thought I'd give him a little shout out. Yeah, starting out. Just support it up and coming comics. Yeah, support him, yeah. Oh, we always end with the same question. Feels like we've only talked about two topics,

death and big children. That's my life. That is literally my life. That's your life. Death and big kids. Oh, my God. But the final question is, your husband big boy number one um yeah what's um the best and worst thing he does parenting wise what's the one thing that

winds you up about him as a parent but also what's one thing that makes you go oh i'm so happy i had children with him he's amazing oh i should think of the good one second shouldn't i so we end on a positive note yeah or we can just end on the truth yeah yeah yeah well the one thing he does is i think amazing is he's one of those parents who can play with kids for two hours like he will do i'm a dinosaur we're all on dinosaur island and we're running from a volcano he will play that game for like two solid hours i'll go away and i'll think normally i get to the point like i can't do this anymore like my brain i need a break He's fully like they're on his back.

He's dressed as a dinosaur. Like they've drawn all over his face and he's still absolutely like. No. Yeah. And he's really good for like, like if we go around to other people's houses, he's the adult who's in with the kids with like nine kids and he's like the wizard and chasing them all. And everyone's like, God, thank God he's doing that.

We can have a chat. I think he needs an outlet, this guy. Get him on stage. Yeah. Get him a chat. He needs an outlet, this guy. Get him on stage. Yeah. Get him a gig. Get him an ostentatious. Yeah, he's just so, he just really,

he's like, well, they're having a nice time. So he's like, well, I didn't want to stop the game. They were all having such a nice time. No, I'm not that man. I know, I'm not. I've served my,

I've done my 20 minutes. Someone else take over. He's pure. I'm not that man. Yeah, yeah yeah exactly exactly who wants to watch your film who wants popcorn yeah put the telly on i know let's play hide and seek but you all have to hide i'll come find you give me half an hour i'll find you yeah but yeah but uh then negative is think he well it's just boring isn't it it's just like this is bad parenting but

good household so when we're like playing I will also tidy up as we go. Yes, I'm a tidy up as we go. So that two hours dinosaur play, oh, the kids are happy. And I come in, I'm like, fuck, you know, like every cushion's off the sofa and there's pen. I'm like, could you not have just, as they were, when they started watching telly, then we just tidy as we go, tidy as we go,

which makes me obviously the worst person ever. The anti-fun machine. The anti-fun machine. But that's what a mum's job is, isn't it? I've discovered. That's your role. Come on, you're the one to go, guys, this is a bad idea. Don't do that.

Fair enough. Brilliant. Thanks, Carrie-Anne, so much. That was great. Good luck with the book and the podcast. Thanks, Carrie. That was brilliant. Thanks, loves.

Carrie-Anne Lloyd, Josh Widdicombe. Loved that. That was really good. I just looked at the photo of you boxing, Rob. It's fucking incredible. I can't believe you haven't seen it before. I'll stick it on the Instagram. Yeah, your...

Oh, he's punching below the belt, actually. The thing is, big blad and dirty fucker when it comes to fighting. You can see my dad's tattoo, his swallow tattoos on his arms. Yeah, he's going below the belt there and clinching. He's holding my head.

There's absolutely terrible form there. Yeah, your dad's not reffing well because he's not even getting involved. No, he's just watching, loving it. Lovely sofa as well, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Timeless.

Timeless. That really transports me back, that photo. That was brilliant. That was so good. That was was great i'll be honest with you josh i've met karen a couple of times and she does improv shows about jane austin and she's got a podcast about grief i was worried i panicked i was like what's that what what have we signed up for but she's brilliant isn't she she speaks so well good so funny and I love her. That's why I love podcasts. It's always something for someone that will really help. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So it's nice to have it all. And if you are someone suffering from having a big child, then... If you have been to see Josh Winnicombe in concert and you are suffering with grief after watching a terrible death in front of you I'm glad you used the word concert I'm pleased with that Josh you're going to

come in cancer in cancer that's what my next tour is going to be called in cancer comes out of a sax I don't know I did the Strictly music

there by accident right well see you on Tuesday Josh see you on Tuesday bye