Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S6 EP18: Tom Daley

Episode Date: March 10, 2023

 Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant Olympic gold medal winning diver, knitter, and now podcaster - Tom Daley. Tom's new podcast 'Made with Love' is available now. Thanks, Rob + Josh. We're going on tour!! Fancy seeing the podcast live in some of the best venues in the UK? Of course you do, you're not made of stone! Tickets available now on the dates and at the venues below. We can't wait to see you there... ON SALE NOW  14th April 2023 - Manchester AO Arena 19th April 2023 - Nottingham 20th April 2023 - Cardiff  21st April 2023 - London (The O2) 23rd April 2023 - London (Wembley) 28th April 2023 - Birmingham Utilita Arena  If you want to get in touch with the show here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] TWITTER: @parenting_hell INSTAGRAM: @parentinghell A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willicombe. Welcome to Parents in Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So, to make ourselves, and hopefully you, feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern-day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or, hopefully, how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener, with advice and of course tales of parenting woe because let's be

honest there are plenty of times where none of us know what we're doing hello you're listening to parenting hell with harry can you say rob beckett and can you say j Beckett? Rob Beckett. And can you say Josh Widdicombe? Josh Widdicombe. That's really good. Well done. I'm a big fan of that one, Josh. That was good. This is Harry.

It was cute and the mum sounded fun as well. Yeah. What, Rach from Norwich? She does sound fun. So Norwich is quite a nice place against all press coverage. Do you know what? Norwich, lovely people, lovely place. I think just because of the location where it is,

it gets a bad rep because there's nowhere else to go once you get there. Yeah, it's difficult. It's the end. There's no motorway, is there? No, it's so dark. Thetford Forest on the way back at 11. Oh, it's got it so dark. Such a dark drive.

Let's focus on the positives of Norwich, Rob. Oh, go on then. You first. That's a lovely theatre. And I'd say quite an iconic football team. They wear a different colour to a lot of teams. And also, Rach and Rich live there with their son, Harry, who's 19 months old.

They have been waiting until he could do a possible repeat of your names for a long time. So we've been listeners from the beginning. Absolutely love the show, even before Harry came along. And now on the home stretch of pregnancy number two, due in May. Oh, congratulations. Keep being your sexy and relatable selves. And thanks for all the laughs.

You make this utter carnage of parenting malarkey seem normal. Big love. Rach and Rich from Norwich. Four kisses. Four kisses. That's good. That's nice. A lot of babies at the moment. mate just had a baby i went to i had to drop off a water bottle for him like that

he'd left at my house and i'll because i was like they live like 20 minutes away the way i was like like if anything you need because i actually have to have a c-section so she was like obviously it makes everything a bit harder doesn't it yeah you're basically an operation well you have an operation yeah it's an operation it's major surgery it's major surgery it's major surgery and um i went around there and um that like they look so tired bless them it was like the baby was so cute but because they'd been in hospital a couple of days and i just transported me back to having a little one and it's like that first few days you're just in an absolute hazy fog yeah just like oh my god but um yeah the baby's all happy and healthy and they're all happy and healthy but um i just remember just i just saw my mate stood there with a baby it's always

so funny seeing your mate with a baby in it yeah it is weird because i you know also they do sort of cradle it a bit like you know you're drunk mate of a kebab on the way home from a night out at the start it's sort of like that's the only thing i've ever seen him hold that delicately you know what i mean yeah or a crater it's either that and a crate of beer and now a baby on the way home from a night out at the start. It's sort of like, that's the only thing I've ever seen him hold that delicately. You know what I mean? Or a crate of, it's either that and a crate of beer and now a baby. How old is he?

It's so exciting. I suppose because you're a bit younger than me. You've got friends who are having their first kids, really. Yeah, so I was 29 when I had my first, which is quite fairly young. Not for my family, all my cousins,

I don't know, about 17, 18. But yeah, so that was quite, but yeah, so he's, no that was quite a bit yeah so he's no he's a bit old he's 37 36 kind of thing he's not too old no but he's um his wife's a little bit younger um and then my younger brother's having a baby as well so yeah i've got mates that are just starting to have them and then other people that have got them a bit older so

but yeah i've never really had many nearby like you live quite close to your mate, proper mates and got kids the same age, haven't you? Where our kids, the friends we've got through kids, the difference of the ones I had growing up, if you know what I mean. Yeah.

It's sort of the ages didn't really match up whenever one had one, because we've got friends that have got a kid the same age as our eldest, but then a much younger one or a much older one. And it just doesn't fit as well for play dates because there's always a kid in the corner. He's always going with the kids' friends

and you have to be friends with the parents rather than the other way around. That's what I say. Like I said, you know what I mean? Yeah. Josh, oh, Recorder Club. That's what I was going to talk to you about, Recorder Club. So, you know, my eldest doesn't do any clubs.

Yes, she hates clubs. Hates clubs. And we were like, fair enough, doesn't want to do them, whatever. Anyway, we went in. There's a new teacher at the school who's sort of doing these little catch-ups with the kids there's not a parents evening it's sort of like on a wednesday morning she's putting time aside if you want to go into yeah yeah talk about your kid yeah and it's quite relaxed you don't have to go it's quite relaxed it's just if you want to anyway we went in and she was saying

yeah she's lovely and it's all she's all doing well and you know there's no problems anything like that and and stuff i said she's a bit more she's sort of like she's a slow grower with confidence she's sort of semi-quiet but then as she gets into it she gets more confident as which is actually quite like me as a child i was very quiet and timid and then i'd grow in confidence exactly um and then she yeah it's a bit strange she's not doing any clubs at all we said look we we don't mind her doing clubs we're happy to pay for like the ones you have to pay for we're not being tight or she just doesn't really want to um want to do any so we thought maybe also maybe it's just a bit of a sort of like a confidence thing or something

like that and then the teacher went well i'm doing recorder club so what i'm going to do is i'll go and say to her there's a space in my recorder club and i'd love it if you join the club yeah right and sort of invite her rather than her making a decision or being forced into it by the parents so he said okay it sounds great anyway didn't think much of it then when we picked her up from school that same day she came out like mommy daddy i'm going to record a club that miss miss come up to me and said there's a space and she's asked me to go in it and i'm going to do Recorder Club. Look at that. Look at this turnaround.

This is unbelievable. Incredible. When she's playing recorder, headlining the Glastonbury Pyramid stage, in 20 years, you'll be able to go, I knew. That was that moment.

That's the teacher of an impact. The first person to headline Glasto on a recorder. Yeah. Pharaoh Xhaka, 18 times. Nice of them to get a woman to headline, many would say. But anyway. Yeah, it's quite white bloke, isn't it, the old Glasto this year? So she came out buzzing, right?

And she was all excited. She was like, cool, brilliant. Okay, that sounds good. Great. Well, we'll pick you up at four o'clock tomorrow, whenever it finishes. Yeah. She was brilliant. And then the youngest is going in this little late room thing. So get them all at four anyway the next morning it's like a nightclub

you're sending your oldest in with a recorder your youngest in with some mdma and you're gonna pick them up um and uh anyway so we're getting before the day we drop her off the next morning she's white she basically goes white as a ghost when she's worried about something like you can actually see the color drained out of her face she's like oh god i don't want to go to record club i don't want to go i don't like it i don't want to go i'm really sort of panicking and like really like i don't want to go i'm really nervous and all that and i just don't want to go i just don't want to go and then lou was like well let's just see what it's like and she was like properly like nearly like getting upset about it and it's just at the start of the day and she's

dropping her off and she's like getting out of the car and she's got to do just at the start of the day and she's not doing it and Lou's dropping her off and she's like getting out of the car and she's got to do it at the end of the day so she's like I've got to do it but I'm really nervous and then like Lou

and then she drops her and we'll see and I think Lou sort of said something like we don't know we might not have to do it if you don't want to do it kind of thing

and then Lou sort of regretted saying that because she actually wanted to go so anyway she went in and then Lou was like oh god

like I don't know what to do and then we emailed the teacher and Lou was going to say she doesn't have to do it she doesn't want to do it but i was like and we both agreed that me and lou that i think actually she's worried she wants to go because she come out buzzing she wants to go that fear of the unknown exactly and i think that what you want to do as a parent for me is a bit like well don't go then don't have to do it i can control this i can make you happy now yeah you're unhappy now i can make you happy now. You're unhappy now. I can make you happy now.

Right. And short term, it's a bit short sighted because the thing is that then what we did, we emailed the teacher and said, look, she doesn't want to go. We think it's just nerves.

And I think she'll absolutely love it. She was so excited last night. The only thing that's changed is the anxiety of the morning drop off of she's got to do it. So they emailed back and said, look, if she really gets upset, we'll just put her in late room with her sister. She doesn't have to do it. the email back said look if she really gets upset we'll just put her

in late room with her sister she doesn't have to do it however we'll try and sort of help her get over the nerves and go into it and then anyway she went in and came out right because we was nervous because i was like do you know what though if she doesn't go in she'll feel like a failure she was excited she'll feel like oh and that's how i used to feel as a kid i'd be like nerves and my mom would sometimes go you don't have to do it then but then I'll be at home being a bit of a loser. And like, if anyone goes, Oh,

did you do recorder club? Go, no, no, I didn't do it actually. Why not? Oh, I didn't want to,

but I actually did. I was just scared. I don't think, I don't think avoiding recorder club makes you a loser, Rob. I'd say, you know, it does.

Yeah. Anyway. So, so we was like, we was really worried. Right. And then we didn't hear anything from the teachers or whatever. And I was waiting at four o'clock

and she came out of the recorder club with her recorder. Amazing. The happiest. She was flying. And it was recorder club to a point, but also I think it was just her getting over that worry. And that sense of achievement of doing something you was nervous about, but you really wanted to do.

And she was buzzing. And, mate, I listened to Recorder, I'd say, for four hours nonstop when she got home. And I couldn't go, that's enough of that, pack it in. She did one perfectly. I was singing along with her, and she was making me sing. And it was really cute. And it's been great fun.

And she was like, I want my own Recorder. I want a turquoise one. Some girl in there's got a turquoise one. And I was like, well, if you go often and you do the whole term, we'll get you a new one kind of thing. But she was absolutely flying.

And I was so, so chuffed for her. Oh my God. That's great. That's a heartwarming story. It's a heartwarming story. And then she actually said, the next morning,

6am, dad, can I do it again? 6am, she was doing it the next day, recorder club and then she went to lou she went mum and she went i think we've got a musical star in the family so she's flying with it now we were so close to going don't send her we'll get her a four

yeah and it would have would have been the wrong decision long term but short term it felt like the right thing to do and i think it's that little bit of the balance getting the balance right of being firm but fair and yeah cruel to be kind to a point because if i if i didn't force myself to go and do those stand-up gigs early on oh my god and i was petrified i'd be physically sick yeah i'd i'd but the world might be, but my life wouldn't be. Fuck the world. I would pace and pace and go white and pale. But then over time, you get more confident. And the sense of achievement was amazing.

And now I'm super confident in most stuff. Get jaded. Fire goes out. Fire goes out. But yeah, so that was, we were really chuffed with that and now she goes to recorder club every week and then we're going to slowly start putting in new ones and they were really good to school they sort of paired her up with a friend to walk in with and the first week she sat there in silence like just doing the recorder and then the teacher said second

week she went she was asking questions and saying what note it was and really getting involved. So, yeah, it's really nice to see her sort of confidence evolving. Which, yeah, so that's nice. And from one child star to another, Rob. Do you like that? Do you like that, Link? Oh, yes, please, Josh. Who we got? A man who didn't want to go to diving club.

We don't know that. No, he didn't. He really wanted to go. He wanted to go to diving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what he said but gold medal olympian national treasure devon boy absolute legend and now podcaster is tom daly and parent parent crucially crucially parent of all those things the most important bit parent is tomaley. Tom Daley. Welcome to the podcast.

Is it Sir Tom Daley? You must have some sort of OBE, MBE, Olympic winner. I'm an Obi-Wan Kenobi, mate. Are you? You're an OBE. Yeah. Well done. Well, welcome.

Thank you. Sounds weird to say, to be honest. You'll be a Sir one day, won't you? You'll definitely be a Sir one day, Tom. Oh, I don't know about that. Maybe. Maybe one day. Who't you? You'll definitely be a sir one day, Tom. Oh, I don't know about that. Maybe. Maybe one day. Who did you get it off? I got it off of Prince Charles at the time in, I think it was August last year.

We went to Windsor Castle. It was a lovely day. Oh, nice. Yeah. And did you get a plus one, plus two? How many can you get in? Because they were still a little bit like COVID strict, I just had a plus one. So me and my husband went down and then we had a lovely lunch afterwards.

And obviously on the high street on Windsor, must have all the people that go and get their like awards must go in for lunch because when we got there i give you a glass of champagne and i was like how do you know it's like oh it's the worst day everybody's here and i'm like all right okay but it was it was quite cool but yeah who got one on the day you got one because i imagine it's like oh my god they're getting one this is such an honor then you turn a corner and go they've got one exactly to be honest i'm just gonna sound bad i can't remember who else was there was such a whirlwind i feel like professor chris wissy was there yeah i think i buy that yeah so he got did he get knighted i think he must have gotten knighted i don't know something like that did you i know you have to pay for the pictures like you've just come off a roller coaster

do you yeah you do yeah you do have to pay for the pictures and the video yeah yeah no yeah they're like you're not allowed to take your phone in no pictures inside because we're going to take them for you and charge you yeah yeah at graduation how much for a video of getting your obe oh you don't get video oh just a photo i was just lucky that they posted it on the royal family instagram so that's ideal that's free for me. How much was it? Can you remember how much it was? School photos, this is.

I think it's like 250 quid. I mean, that Windsor Castle must be a steep upkeep, I must say, but apparently you have to keep chipping in. Wow. So, Tom, we're not just here to talk about your visits to the Royal Family, also about your own family. So what do you set up at home? You've got one son, is that correct? Yes, I a half years so yeah at school or next year yeah at school so he's at school

right now so yeah that's why there's like some kind of quiet in the house at least so is he enjoying school he loves school i think the nice thing about it is that he's like he can be quite shy sometimes but i think school has taught him to like make new friends and be able to help do that and also the independence of being able to like learn to read and write things

and starting to understand the way that you know each sign actually means something it's not just gibberish written on like you know symbols on a sign

so yeah yeah we'll take him to Wales and he starts getting double I'm still struggling with that he's like what's going on yeah a raff

a raff wales and he starts getting double i still struggle with that what's going on a raft a raft have you have you taken him to the pool oh yeah he can swim which is nice because i think for me it's not just about learning to swim it's about like that water safety yeah being able to like if he ever got in trouble that was the main reason why i started in the pool was because i lived in plymouth which was right by the water so if i ever fell in i could float yeah my back on the surface or do whatever i needed to do and then you became the world's best at falling in you're the ultimate i know got a little bit funnier and then like before here i am oh but you're two devon boys yeah this is it i'm from dartmoor you're from plymouth yeah i'd say you're the

most famous person from devon now do you think that's true and so what about sir francis drake oh yeah but we can't get him on the pod so yeah that's true it's you or dawn french i think the uh the big two plymouth girl um let's talk to you about your son how did a role split with you and your husband with your son you know it's funny because especially when i was like traveling so much with training and diving and things like that i would be away for quite a lot of time so there was not necessarily the most even of balances and that but when we're both home i like to cook so i've always done all of the food and all of that and i'm also being an athlete i was very much the one who was like recording especially in the first couple of weeks you start like almost like writing a training program really of like all like the food the like how many times he's

peed how many times he's pooed all of that stuff and it's like all the things I never thought I'd be writing down in a little book there I was doing it anyway um so as an athlete you kind of approached parenting kind of almost subconsciously like a training program yeah I think it was mainly because it was like you read so many books and you hear about what you should be doing what you shouldn't be doing how's best to like interact with someone and it's just like so crazy chaotic all the time that I just felt like there was that way of being able to have some kind of I guess control because you feel so out of control in those first few weeks that you're like what is this human being alien that you're holding and how all of a sudden

now i am like the prime carer they are completely dependent on what i do and what i say and how we we act with them so it's for me it just allowed me to like take some kind of stuff out of my head and just put it onto paper so i didn't have to think about it anymore yeah yeah so it was a bit of control like if you're logging it you're doing something rather than just thinking about it and getting stressed exactly Yeah, exactly. Did you find it quite stressful then when he was little? Yeah, I mean, the biggest stress thing for me was sleeping at night and then looking at him and he was so peaceful

and it looks like, oh my gosh, is he breathing? And I know every parent does that. Yeah. To the point where I was like, oh my gosh, he's too still. And I used to like wake him up. Oh, one sec, my daughter's calling. One sec, I'll be back in a sec. This is absolute classic. One sec. You carry on. You carry on. You talk to me. Josh, his daughter's off. Ian's scurrying out the room. His daughter's off sick. But yeah, I've done that before. You wake

them up to see if they're okay. And then they're awake all night. And you're like, why did I do that? Yeah. It is scary though. When you first become a parent, you don't know, like no matter how many books you read, no matter what you think you know about what your child is going to be like you just never know what's going to happen and what turns going to happen next and I remember so many people giving me advice on this you should do this or you should try this and this is how you should do it and I was just like and when people ask me what the biggest piece of advice that you could give to any other parent and I'm like do not listen to any other parent's advice because like they don't know the kids so it's like that's for me one of the things I had to learn and come to terms with

for sure yeah it's a bit like you know what you need to do with kids is it's the same as going do you know what you need to do with people yeah no exactly you know what you know what you need to do with adults you're like well no you don't because you've not met that adult you don't know what the situation is you don't know the full story exactly everyone's different did you always want kids was that something that was always or you just focused on the diving and and then that was something you thought about when you were getting nearer the end of your career you're only 28 i mean you could probably still go again couldn't you go again that's the thing i am the granddad in diving to be honest i am like one of the oldest i swear you started about six

i've been doing it for a very long time but you know being yeah i've always wanted to be a parent i remember when i was like 16 17 years old when I used to go away traveling for competitions I used to see kids clothes and be like I'm gonna get that for my future kid like I just knew that I wanted to be a parent and then when I met Lance yeah in the first week that we dated I just straight up asked him was like can you see yourself getting married and he was like yes and then I was like okay could you ever imagine yourself having kids and he was like, yes. And then I was like, okay, could you ever imagine yourself having kids? And he was like, yeah, sure. Like I would want kids. And then we named our children in that first week.

Wow. So you win full Steve first date. Yeah, literally. We broke every single rule of dating possible. Like we just went straight for it. Names. And Robbie Ray is here now. So like we stuck with the same name.

Wow. That's so good. How long between then and having the kid? Five years, six years. Yeah, oh, cool. So it's not like you sort of, like, decided then, you know, had a child straight away. It's like there was a bit of time between it.

But I do think that's a good thing in, like, dating, just being honest and totally yourself straight off the bat. It does cut out that six months of pretending to be someone else. We've all done. Because it's like, you know, Lance was like my first ever long-term relationship really and like for me i was like if i'm going to invest my time in a relationship because you know with training i didn't really have much time at all so if i was going to invest in something i was like i actually want to know that i'm going to get the outcome that i want again it's very athlete mindset like i'd like to know the plan what am i doing where am i going yeah it's like writing down things like you know what

did he say on that day like okay yeah i've got this so for me it's like starting i'm learning more and more about myself as i go i'm like i am actually like a really controlling i like to i like to be in control i'm a real control freak and that's the thing I found most difficult, I'd say, apart from the sleep, about when we first had kids, was you've just got to surrender that control. Yeah. Have you learned to do that? Yeah, massively.

I think you just have to get to a point where you're like, okay, whatever happens, for me, the big thing was having a disaster of a house when they come home and it's like a tornado has hit the place and you've got all of this like train stuff everywhere lego everywhere everything is like all and i think that was the hardest bit for me was because again i like to have everything like tidy and put in its place and now it's just yeah it's chaos all the time and you kind of get used to it and you kind of have to let go of that or else you become so obsessed with it and also you realize

you don't have time to worry about all those little things anymore you just have to yeah i feel like the first six weeks in particular is like survival mode yeah oh six weeks you're being very very kind i'd say the first six months was survival mode for me true i still feel like i'm in survival mode sometimes to be honest and was it surrogacy you and lance did yes yes and then and uh excuse my novelty but so did you get robbie ray like immediately sort of you're there for the birth and stuff like that is that is that how it is yeah exactly we're there from the birth and there's lots of different ways with surrogacy how it works in terms of the uk versus the us and what laws are there are around it and all that kind of stuff but yeah we were there we were present for birth and i had um first skin skin contact which was absolutely incredible you know

because we would obviously always going to need help to have a kid because you know for two gay men i mean no matter how hard we try and it's not quite as not quite as easy as a as a bottle of wine in a good time it takes a a lot of thought. So, yeah. But I do think that is the most magical experience because our surrogate who, you know, she's asked us not to name her for lots of reasons. Of course. But she is the most special human being on the planet. And she has made our dream of having a family come true.

And it really takes a special kind of human being to be so selfless to do that. And, you know, she's now like a family come true. And it really takes a special kind of human being to be so selfless to do that. And, you know, she's now like a friend for life. I mean, we speak all the time. Robbie calls her her tummy buddy. So they're tummy buddies. And it's really sweet. And he also speaks with her kids as well.

Yeah, it's a very magical thing. The whole journey is very special. Yeah. And how much are you in contact during the pregnancy and stuff? The whole time. I mean, we text all the time and especially like, you know, every day. We would also come to the appointments. And, you know, if we couldn't be there in person because she lives in America,

we would dial in on Zoom or on FaceTime or whatever. And so we were in constant communication the whole time. And we used to send little voice notes as well. And she had these earbuds that she could put on her tummy so that the baby could, in theory, hear through stuff, which was really sweet. Oh, it's amazing. And so did you have to do the first few weeks in a hotel in America?

So we have a place in America because Lance my husband is American and the laws are much safer for surrogate and for us in the US so. Yeah it's a bit slow the UK with that kind of legislation isn't it it's a bit more tricky. Yeah it's slightly trickier to do here everybody knows exactly where they stand which is important to have that clarity and you know the surrogate is always in control of everything which is very important and it's just it's also one of those things that you realize the importance of having everything out on the table and being able to have those open conversations and you know in the US as well in California it's again the UK laws is that the surrogate can use her eggs as

well whereas in the US in California anyway you have to use an egg donor so it's not the surrogate's egg so it's a very complicated obviously thing yeah one of my best friends his husband's brazilian and they were looking into surrogacy and i was chatting about it and and it can be quite costly and you know there's millions different ways to do things and then they say obviously you get the egg donor and then you can either you know choose one of the parents to use the sperm or you can just sort of put it all sort of in and you don't know. And it's sort of a bit of a lottery. But my mate's like basically Irish, the most pale skin with dark hair. And then he's very much darker Brazilian husband. I was like, it wouldn't be a surprise.

It would be a bit obvious. Yeah, exactly. But that's the thing, though. Like once you have have the eggs you then fertilize half with like my sperm half of lance's sperm and then you can choose which embryos you transfer and it depends on how many embryos yeah it's basically the same as ibf yes essentially so it's a long process and especially in the states where health care is extortionately expensive i have no idea that if you didn't have medical insurance and you had a baby, you have to pay like $30,000

to just be in the hospital and have your baby delivered. That's insane. Oh my gosh. Which is wild. Like obviously because here in the NHS, I know people complain about the NHS, but it is a lifesaver for so many. If you think you had to go private

and then all of a sudden it's monopolized in a way that you just, it becomes so extortionately expensive. So, yeah. But is there a situation where you and your husband have to have a discussion over whose sperm is kind of make it through to boot camp kind of thing? To judge his houses. So most of the time, well, with Robbie, for example, we we didn't necessarily want to know whose was whose or anything like that and yeah so it was just a matter of putting two of the strongest embryos in yours are going to be strong swimmers though you've got to be confident that you're the strongest that's brilliant well thanks

thanks for talking about that because a lot of listeners really sort of appreciate hearing about that and um how much do you talk to Robbie about it obviously he's getting older now he's going to school and like you know it's difficult because you're still like I wouldn't know what the best time is to sort of explain how it works to them when they're young because they are they do sort of pick up on stuff early doors don't they they're not you know yeah I mean that's the thing whenever he's asked any questions I just explained it exactly how it is I think the amazing thing is that his school that they sent a letter home saying that they were going to talk about all the different kinds of families that there are. And then you could have two moms, two dads, a single mom, single dad, a mom and a dad, like all of the different combinations that

there could be, which is a really, I don't know, really special for Robbie to feel like there's actually like, you know, there's not anything wrong with it, for example. And I think the nice thing with nowadays is there's lots of books as well yeah you can read to kids and have it like explain for example there's a book like with a kangaroo family where another pouch was used to be able to help them have their family and like little things that you can do to explain them in a little bit more of a kid friendly way basically yeah how's he getting on at school is he enjoying it like for you that you love the control but obviously someone's looking after him all day now i know he actually does love it and it's funny because i remember the first week when i came to pick him up he was like papa not yet my friend's going to after

school club why can't i go to after school club and i'm like all right be my guest bless him but no he loves it yeah because you feel like you know i want to spend like more time with my kid and if i'm at home i'll get him at three, whatever. And you get there and go, I want to go to after-school club. You're like, oh, I thought you might want to see me, but okay. I know, because sometimes he does go to an after-school club, and he goes to karate club and things like that.

And I'm like, okay. And then sometimes I am home early, and I'm like, okay, I'm going to go pick him up, and we'll go, I don't know, go and get some food or something like that. And he's just, he's like so disappointed. I'm like, all right, okay, cool. I see where I stand.

You don't need me anymore. You must have spent a lot of time after school clubs. Like when you were a kid, what were your kind of hours that you were keeping? So it changed a lot actually. So initially where like year seven through like year nine I used to train Monday Wednesday Friday mornings like six till 7 45 then go to school till three then I would come home eat do my homework and then I would train 5 30 to 8 30 in the evening

come home eat again and then do the same thing the next day. And then I got to a point where I moved schools. And then when I moved to that school, I went and did school in the morning for two lessons. Then I went and did a two and a half hour training session over lunch. And one of the periods where I would have a free period, and then I would go back to school for another two periods. And then I would go back to the pool again through till 7 30 so it was just yeah it was pretty intense and it was funny because i look back on it now it was just like it was my reality it was like completely normal to me i didn't know anything different so it was very intense you get bored the off step count up the ladder again i know climbing that

bloody ladder do they not do lifts surely they should invent an elevator now like because it's quite a long way up some pools do do they some pools do have it in like for example berlin has one where else had one but in dubai they've got a pool with a lift so yeah some of them do but then it takes longer because then you're waiting for the lift and somebody's up there and then they've pressed all the buttons going up and just because they think they're being funny and it's like so yeah i mean i mean occasionally i would use it if i was being particularly lazy but most of the time you just walk up also because you get a bit cold else because you're getting in the cold water and you're wet and you're out you just kind of try to stay warm as well so do you think you'd want that

kind of schedule for robbie like or did you enjoy it or looking was it you driving that was it your parents or what was the combination of factors yeah that's the thing like it was always. I was pulling my parents out the door and it was like, to me, it was like the best, my favorite part of the day was going to training. Like that was what I love to do. So it's a very, I know how difficult it is now looking back at it and all the things I sacrificed, but you know, I wouldn't change anything now. Like I'm so happy with the way that everything turned out.

But, you know, I think with Robbie, like if he wants to do that, great. But he hasn't really shown that much interest in sport, if I'm so happy with the way that everything turned out. But, you know, I think with Robbie, like if he wants to do that, great. But he hasn't really shown that much interest in sport, if I'm honest. He's very like musical and he says he wants to be a fire engine and a showman, whatever that means. I think that's a stripper. I reckon the second one's easier. Magic Mike, isn't it? Yeah. Last week, I'm not dint taken to Magic Mike.

But we did like a few like musical trips and we went to see frozen and matilda and six the musical and he like loved it all so six is so good i love six six is so nice i think that's the best thing i've seen at the theater mainly because there's no interval and it's blasted out in 80 minutes you're in and out yeah and it's good it is like you're at a concert i loved it and robbie like every night now we have to turn all the lights off and then we've got these little disco balls that you got for christmas and like we put the lights going on and then he does like a whole routine to the whole musical but some of the words my kids know the words and it's quite rude i know

yeah yeah some of them and he has no idea what he's saying and i'm like it's very very funny yeah it's very sweet to see him do it. And he just absolutely loves it. So like, we'd say, well, he shouldn't be doing, you know. Exactly. They're enjoying themselves. Exactly.

Have you, because I'd say you're, I'd say you're now seen as 70% a diver and 30% a premier knitter. That's the way you are. I feel like it's the other way around sometimes, to be honest. Yeah. Just to check, which did you get the OBE for?

It could be one of the other. I know, I need services to knitting. That's the next one. Maybe that's what the knighthood will be for. It'll be a knit hood. Lovely stuff. Good work. Look at that. With the knitting, have you knitted with him yet? What's the age you can start knitting? 83, normally.

Yeah, exactly, 83. He has shown some interest in wanting to learn but the thing is like i feel like i don't want to get him into it too soon because like it takes a lot of hand dexterity to be able to do it and he might get frustrated so like i want him to like love it when he does yeah and he can do it yeah i say i want him to love it i mean he's probably gonna be like yeah papa no this is not for me whenever i've made him anything knit initially he was like wow thank you and now he's like papa no more knitting I don't need no more it's quite funny though like you grow up and like you know you you're knitting you've got books about it and stuff and I'm sure there's a tv show and on the

way of stuff like that where it's like he'll just be like oh my daddy's just sort of does knitting and stuff and then you'll be like no I was at the Olympics yeah exactly I know he'll be he'll go to like school and be like yeah my papa's a knitter and i'm like okay cool like a yeah there's something i do but i mean i bloody love it i can't get enough of it i take it everywhere with me you're still obsessed with it still like yeah still obsessed i always have a project going i have like my go back by the door where i take like you know my water bottle my you know stuff that i need each day and i've always got my knitting in it would i say you're a bit of an obsessive you get a bit obsessed with stuff tom is that i do yeah so as well as knitting

obviously your family and the diving yeah have you had any other things that for a brief period they've not caught on like the knitting or the diving but you were obsessed with like for me and josh toasted sandwiches we sometimes get into a little uh spree of having but like anything else that nearly became your new knitting or are you just all in on one thing but okay so i piano was another thing i was like just before lockdown i was like i'm gonna learn how to play the piano so i had a couple of piano lessons and then was like obsessed with it and i was like doing all the like reading and like the homework that they said and then lockdown happened and then i didn't have another lesson so i was like okay and that's when

I started knitting and then knitting became my new obsession right so you could have been you know could have been piano but it was knitting

I could have been Elton Tom but you could have been oh another great you could have been port side in Tokyo with a keyboard I could have been

I could have been didn't happen yeah from keyboard to diving board each time I hope you aren't T-Vine it's unbelievable the workplace is, you're on TV! It's unbelievable.

The workplace is incredible. You're a fucking machine, Tom. Terrible. Well, you've got your own podcast, which, is it pure puns? Because I'm hoping it is. Yeah, basically. Basically just puns. All the puns.

Yeah. It's actually been really fun to do, actually. Because I'd never, obviously never had a podcast before. And it's called Made With Love. And I basically just chat to do actually like because i'd never obviously never had a podcast before and it's called made with love and i basically just chat to people like you guys chat to people about parenting i chat to people about the things that they love to do the things that they're passionate about and how they're able to turn it into the thing that they do every day which has been yes i mean it's been really fun like the people i've gotten to chat to have just been so interested like yeah you start with shania twain right yeah shania twain amazing she's amazing she's so fun you've met her as well haven't you rob i've met her she's

unbelievable and also i don't think she gets the respect she deserves about how many albums she sold that old come on over was the biggest selling out of the 90s or something mad like that wasn't her backstory is unbelievable where she grew up in like in Canada in sort of like a part of a community that doesn't always get the best treatment. And then she was going off at like 17, 18 to follow her dreams. And then there was a terrible accident. And then she had to go home and look after her siblings. And then that halted her career. And she's really lovely and humble.

That would be an amazing episode to listen to. She's incredible. And like, she's so young hearted as well and young spirited. Like she's like ready to go out and have a good time and have fun and it's like she's the kind of person you're like oh my gosh i really wish like you were like my bestie yeah just like go out and and i said to her like every time i hear don't i'm on the table before she even says let's go girl that is like it's so amazing like what's your? Imagine being able to walk into any room in the world and just go...

And then go, Josh Whittaker. I love Josh Whittaker. Love Tom Daley. She doesn't do that, though, does she? That would be awful. I would, if that was me. Shania's here. Welcome.

Who else have you had on, Tom? So we had Francis Bourgeois, Greta Thunberg, Lando Norris. Fucking hell, we need your booker. If it's me, I have to reach out on Instagram. Oh, is it? Can I ask you what you write in your DMs to Shania Twain? And I'm going to copy it and see if it works. Does she follow you, Rob?

Oh, that's the first hurdle. I imagine not. How do I find out if she follows me? Go on who she's following and you'll be in the list. No, she doesn't follow me. It's a shame, innit? Okay. She's only following 50,000 people, so, you know.

It's funny because sometimes I could just reach out and sometimes I don't get a reply. But, like, for me, I always think, like, if I ever get asked to go on a podcast, sometimes, like, you know, we met when we were, well, we met many times, but, like, when on Jonathan Ross, it kind of, like, felt felt like it's nice if you know someone it's easier isn't it first because then it's easier because then you're like oh yeah cool that makes sense

yeah so yeah Tom what tips have you learned from doing the podcast because I think the secret to life is find out what you love to do which isn't always easy because you know you can get confused find out what it is you love to do and then work out a way to monetize it so that it can be your income so you you know all the bills get paid and every day you're going to work you enjoy it because it's the thing you love that's the sort of secret to life so have you learned any ways to do that or any insight from speaking to the people what is the common denominator i think persistence yeah is honestly what it is i think there's lots of like sometimes it gets to a point where you almost get to breaking point

and you feel like you can't do it. But like if you are truly passionate about and you truly love what you do, it never feels like work. And no matter if you have to do other things on the side as you're going, it just creates this. I think everybody should have that little thing,

even if it's like, if you're doing your job and it's not necessarily something that you want to be doing, if you've got something outside of it that you love, but diving was what I love to do. And then I made that into the thing that I did every day and then because I that became like my job in a way I always had that extra thing on the

outside which then became knitting and then you know now knitting has kind of like taken that forefront and I just think there's always something nice to have outside of what you're paid to do that you always have something yeah outside of what you're paid to do they always have something yeah outside of what you're paid to do that's like kind of becomes your superpower the way the thing that you can do that is you look forward to doing at the end of each day the thing that you kind of gets you out of your head gets you out of your own way and i think that's the that's the that's the key i remember someone saying to me you should take up like a really good thing is to do something that you're not that good at so that it's just a hobby like if you're trying to be really is to do something that you're not that good at so that it's just a

hobby like if you're trying to be really good at the thing that you're doing for your hobby as well then it's going to turn into the same kind of work situation as your job you know what i mean obsessed with golf and try and become like they really want to be good at golf and i'm like actually if you put that effort into what your day job was then you could just pay golf loads because you wouldn't be working as much. Yeah. There is that as well.

What's your diary like, you know, and how much can you see your son now say like when you're, you know, you obviously you're doing your podcast and media interviews and, but it's not as intense as training. No. So what does your week look like this week with your son compared to next

week, you start training for the Olympics. How different is it like commitment wise? Well, it's the kind of thing where I can fit everything in that I'm doing now from between the hours of dropping Robbie off to school and picking him up. So I'm then able to spend all the time with him in the world. And whereas when I was training, I would, like, he was at nursery when I was training,

so I would drop him off at daycare at, like, 8 o'clock, then go straight to training and start training eight 30 till 11. Then I would have lunch between and do any kind of interviews or anything that I needed to do from like 1130 to one. And then I would start training at one 15 till like three 3345, sometimes four o'clock. Then I go pick Robbie up at four 30 on the way home, make him dinner, make me dinner, put him to bed, and then I was off to bed. So it's like I actually feel like I get proper time with him now. And like even weekends, I can go out and do things.

And it's such a precious time, this age, between like four and 12. Rob, don't talk us out of another gold medal here, mate. Yeah, let's break this down. Tom, do you want two gold medals in the wall? Or do you want a son that comes around and sees you on a Sunday? That's the options. And the answer is fucking gold. Go and get it, son.

Bring down the gold. Fuck the kid off. Get the gold. That's the thing. I do think that in Tokyo, I think that was one of the reasons why we were able to win the gold as well is because you have that perspective on what matters most, so then you don't put the same amount of pressure on yourself because in 2008, 12, 16, I almost tortured myself through the whole experience because i wanted

it so badly yeah but then when you realize actually i've got all of the most important things in my life i've you know got my family and they're gonna love me whether i do well or not so just go and have fun and enjoy it and like you've worked hard for it at this point so just do your thing and is there part of you that would like him to see you because now obviously in tokyo he wouldn't have been aware really what was going on he was in canada he was asleep if you went to paris i don't know whether he could be in the venue but he could certainly watch it on tv and it'd be an incredible thing to do you think about that yeah i mean he was yeah he could be in the venue and then i also think like well the funny thing is like lance and my mum were in Canada because Lance was shooting a tv show out there and he so I think

it was like 3am or something like that so Robbie was on the sofa but kind of asleep and there's this video of Lance screaming when we won and then like Robbie is like wakes up kind of like days like what on earth is going on so he does bring it up some and he understands that I went to the Olympics and i dived and but yeah it would be kind of cool to have it be like an actual like core memory that he was able to see something yeah um what i wanted to ask tom now your son's in school is are you making an effort with the parents are you in whatsapp groups are you going for the parent drinks have you been to the parties yet because it gets quite political i I'm not going to lie, Tom.

How are you finding school parents? To give you an idea, I've thrown myself in it. I'm really popular and I love it. And Rob hates all the other parents at his school. So that's the two ends of the spectrum. That's not true. No, that is really bad, actually. I hang about with the school parents at my school more than you.

I play football with them on the Sunday. We have kids over for sleepovers. I chat to everyone in the playground. I haven't as much with my youngest because I was away when she started school in Australia, but I make an amends for that and I'm taking her to all the new parties. So actually, Josh, go fuck yourself.

Sorry, Tom, how are you getting on? Tom, do you think Shania Twain would put up with that kind of interviewing style? I don't think you should drop into a DMs rock. That doesn't impress me much, that question, actually. I don't know. I'm in the WhatsApp groups. They can be very intense.

Everything can be very serious sometimes. And I'm just like, you know what? They're kids. They'll figure it out. And it will be fine. And I think the nice thing about this is, I guess it's nice, but also a little bit like not nice, it will be fine yeah and i think the nice thing about this is i guess it's nice but also a little bit like not nice is it seems like the parents have decided like not to do birthday parties for their kids oh at all interesting so robbie or you haven't been invited yeah or that or i've not been

invited robbie's there i'm like papa they had a party and i wasn't invited no but when we first started the first two weekends had birthday parties, but that was because we knew the kids before they started and it was only a handful of kids. So it seems like each kind of birthday that might happen, they do like a very like little, like just their closest mates. Oh, they're not doing a class party.

Oh, that's good. Yeah, they don't do class parties, which because there's two classes in the year group and they kind of mix between, like, classes. So it's, like, 60 kids. So it becomes, like, probably a bit impossible to, like, try and invite everyone and, like, be politically correct. So I think people have just kind of done their own thing.

Oh, that's good. Have you been out with drinks with the mums and dads? They actually had, like, a dad's drinks thing last week, but I was away. Right. So I couldn't go that's quite fun because you and lance can double up on that i know i know we're both there that's like a date night for you guys let's go and hang with the lads yeah exactly we're off we're off out yeah but it's like like we did like the school fairs like they did the christmas fair and

then they did like the nativity thing that was sweet that was really sweet but yeah i don't know it's not been it takes a little while to settle down i think the reception year is always a bit everyone's trying to work out what everyone's doing and stuff and as a recognizable face have you been roped into doing anything have you been asked to bring in your gold medal and talk about inspiration or anything yet the one really sweet thing that happened was like i think year five or year six had to do like a creative writing piece about someone that inspired them and one of them chose me as their like person and they wrote this little letter and I don't think they knew that like Robbie went to the

school or anything like that and then the teacher like pulled me aside and just was like I just want to let you know year six wrote this really really special letter and you can read it and then bless they were so sweet and then i got to go and meet them and it was just very sweet so like little things like that i'd like you know you don't really realize but it was special because if that had happened with rob they'd have gone do you want to meet him and rob to go no i'm not interested mate no i'll pop my head into reception that never any inspiring letters about me anyone wants to chat no because i sort of grew up around this area so i've done quite a lot actually considering where i've come from but they're not no they're not okay no but yeah i

always pop in and just find out now and again yeah just have a little last yeah the thing is though you must feel that you know you're a normal person like everyone else tom you get up in the morning sometimes you're a bit tired or whatever you had a late night and you just chuck on a tracksuit and get them into school and you feel almost a bit pathetic you just want to get back and have a coffee to sort of crack on with the day, do you always feel like you're an inspiring Olympic hero or do sometimes you feel like a piece of shit? Yeah, because when he puts on a tracksuit, it's his Olympic tracksuit every day.

I love an Olympic tracksuit. I love tracksuits. Imagine having one that you wore at the Olympics. But then for you, it's normal. It's like you went there, you did that, and then obviously the kids find it inspiring. How does it feel when you have to go and talk to them? Is part of you sort of,

because you don't want to fall into the trap of sort of believing your own hype and like, yes, child, I am an inspiring person. But part of you must feel like, I'm just a bloke that's sort of really like diving and did it loads. And I don't really know what to say. Yeah, honestly, especially now

that I'm not been like training as much. There's been many a time where I've like gone to like an event. Like, you know, they always do those award shows in the middle of the week, don't they? Yeah. So there's been many a time where I've like gone to like an event like you know they always do those award shows in the middle of the week don't they yeah so there's been many a times where I've woken up like bed head and my eyes are like half shut and like I've you know might have had a couple of beverages the night before and then I rock up and win school and then I've got my nails painted and I'm hobbling in like a mess and it's just but then that's when I feel the pressure to put on a brave face. And they're like, oh, like I've got my tracksuit on.

Oh, are you going training? And I'm like, yeah, I am about to go for a run to my bed to lay down. That's the advantage you've got. So I went to the gym the other day before pick up. So I turned up in my shorts and my trainers and everyone was like acting like i was you know oh have you been to the jail no like they didn't have respect for me a couple more questions number one having listened to us do you think shania twain we'd be her kind of shtick she'd love this show she i think she'd love it she's

up for a good time she'd love it we've got to get twain on she's up for a good time okay sorry rob you've got to slip into her dms well i'll get the tv company that booked her to do rob and romesh to message we always end with the same uh question which is um what one thing well it's kind of two-part question but there's the positive one which is what one thing does your partner do which kind of you think that's the reason i'm with him an incredible parent you know i couldn't do that and then what's the one thing that annoys you about your partner's parenting that maybe you haven't said to them because it's too awkward but were they to listen this would be your chance to communicate it to them the thing that lance is amazing at when it comes to robbie is obviously lance being a creative he is so good with Robbie when

it comes to like language stuff and having conversations like like one of the one things that he always said to Robbie when he was like you know in terrible twos and like he had his enough words to say he would always say use your words Robbie use your words yeah yeah Robbie never plays up with Lance in the like crying bit because Lance played this whole gimmick of like, oh, I don't understand that language. What language is like confused whenever he would scream or shout. Then all of a sudden now he'll be screaming and shouting at me and then you'll turn to Lance and be like, Papa doesn't know. So like he like definitely plays us off each other in that way. Papa doesn't know sounds like a Motown song.

So I guess the child psychology, I guess, is a good thing that Lance has got like in that way and is has very like deep conversations with Robbie and I think the one thing that I'm always a bit like well waking up in the morning he's not very good at the waking up in the morning he can't do mornings uh really Rhodes isn't good at I can't do mornings I'm the morning guy it's annoying being the morning guy right because I have I'm the morning guy. It's annoying being the morning guy, right? Because... I have to be the morning guy. It's not my fault that I'm the morning guy, but I pay a tax for it, which is I'm up making the tea for being

the morning guy. Sorry. It's your problem, not mine. I mean, we've also taught Robbie how to make the coffee. Does he? What? He makes coffee. At five? And the crazy thing is, like, the other day... Frost the milk? Well, he doesn't frost the milk. He just makes the espresso, basically. Also, the other day, I've got a picture of it.

He was emptying the dishwasher. No. I came upstairs and I was like, what are you doing, Robbie? He was like, I'm emptying the dishwasher, Papa. And I was like, okay. And then the other morning I came up, he'd made himself a salmon and cream cheese bagel. No way.

What's going on? Like, literally, I was like, Robbie, like, what on earth? He was like, Papa, I was hungry. He's that middle-aged of all C, Robbie. Little bagel on the garlic espresso. Honestly, it was so funny. I couldn't believe it. Because we got this bagel cutter for Christmas because he loves bagels.

So he was able to, like, cut his own bagel with this thing where you, like, push down onto it. Oh, wow. And then, yeah, he toasted it, spread the thing on, and then he got the salmon out of the fridge and just chucked it on top and off off he went unbelievable well done yeah bless him tom thank you so much for coming on thank you it's been a joy your podcast made with love yeah first episode with shania twain i'm going straight to listen to what should i listen to second who's the one after twain well the thing is we're releasing them weekly um i mean greta was a great one and greta had like a really interesting fact about her family as well which i had no idea about which was an interesting and i won't say what it is oh i love it oh that's good that's good

look at that oh a little tease for you he's preparing for his post-diving career he knows how to he knows how to play the media. What a little tease that was. Thank you very much, Tom. It's been absolutely brilliant. Good luck with the podcast. Thanks, Tom. Oh, thank you very much. Cheers, Tom. It's been brilliant.

Thanks, mate. Tom Daley. Love Tom Daley. What a legend. Great kid. Kid, he's 28. Great kid. Great kid.

Great kid. Art of gold. I think I still think of him as a child, I think, because that's when he was famous, when he was a teenager, wasn't it? Yeah. But then also there's that other thing where was a teenager, wasn't it? Yeah. But then also there's that other thing where you're 28,

you've been famous forever. I think every gold medal winner is entitled to that one last game where they really shouldn't have done it. Absolutely. That'll be me when I do Family Fortunes when I'm 65. I couldn't give a shit. I reckon you'll be Family Fortunes by the time you're 40, Rob. It's been a pleasure. I love it.

Made with love. Tom Daley everyone bye bye hello and welcome to the trailer of Oh My Dog with me Jack D

and me Sean Walsh in our new weekly podcast we'll be revealing the most intimate ridiculous details of our relationships with our beloved dogs. I have the delightful spirited Mildred Barrett who is a cockapoo. Yeah my streetwise best friend is Dolly the long-haired chihuahua that we rescued. We'll be asking the all-important questions like, does your dog sleep in your bed? Do you let your dog kiss you on the mouth? And what voice do you use when you're speaking to your dog?

We do it in the morning. Come here, I'll give you the squeezes, I'll give you the rubby bellies, because it's in the morning. What are you doing? What are you doing, Sean? I'm doing the voice that I use to speak to Mildred. Oh, thank goodness for that.

We'll also get our equally dog-obsessed guests... Wait, wait, wait. What are you doing? I'm carrying on with the trailer. I know that you speak to Dolly with a voice. Do the voice. I'm not... No, I'm not going to do that now.

Do the voice! We want to hear the voice! Hello, my darling. Have you been a good girl today? What are you going to do? Have you missed me? Have you missed me? Good girl.

It's not funny. It's how I talk to her. Don't mock it. Over the coming weeks, you'll be hearing from the likes of Jonathan Ross, Amanda Abingdon and Sarah Cox about their faithful four-legged friends. Make sure you subscribe now

so you don't miss our first episode on Monday the 6th of March. You are very much part of the podcast too, so get in touch by emailing us at hello at omdpod.com or follow us on Instagram at omdpod. I'm Ivo Graham. And I'm Alex Keeley we're stand-up comedians

who love music and we'd like to tell you about our new podcast Gig Pigs Alex and I have been watching live music together for years so we've decided

to compromise this hobby and potentially our friendship by turning it into a project every episode we'll be going to a gig and then discussing it afterwards with the friends who came along

to third wheel us asking questions like did you enjoy the gig? did you check the set list in advance? did you appreciate Every episode, we'll be going to a gig and then discussing it afterwards with the friends who came along to third wheel us. Asking questions like, did you enjoy the gig? Did you check the setlist in advance? Did you appreciate the artist's mid-song banter? Did this gig profoundly change your relationship with live music? Was the Cloakroom queue prohibitively long? We've been to Franz Ferdinand with Rosematterfeyer and Emma Ciddy, Kendrick Lamar with Phil Wang and The Cure with Cellular AB.

And next month, we're going with Ed Gamble to watch Napalm Death episodes are out from this Thursday and every Thursday thereafter until attending live music once a week with a different guest becomes logistically impossible we have no idea how soon that could be so join us now

by going to your preferred podcast platform and searching Gig Pigs