Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe's Parenting Hell - S8 EP62: Tom Kerridge

Episode Date: August 9, 2024

Joining us this episode to discuss the highs and lows of parenting (and life) is the brilliant chef and presenter - Tom Kerridge. Parenting Hell is a Spotify Podcast, available everywhere every Tuesday and Friday. Please leave a rating and review you filthy street dogs... xxx If you want to get in touch with the show here's how: EMAIL: [e-mail] INSTAGRAM: @parentinghell MAILING LIST: parentinghellpodcast.mailchimpsites.com  A 'Keep It Light Media' Production  Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Rob Beckett. And I'm Josh Willicombe. Welcome to Parenting Hell, the show in which Josh and I discuss what it's really like to be a parent, which I would say can be a little tricky. So to make ourselves and hopefully you feel better about the trials and tribulations of modern day parenting, each week we'll be chatting to a famous parent about how they're coping. Or hopefully how they're not coping. And we'll also be hearing from you, the listener,

with your tips, advice, and of course, tales of parenting woe. Because let's be honest, there are plenty of times when none of us know what we're doing. Hello, you're listening to Parenting Hell with... Noah, can you say Rob? Rob. Can you say Beckett?

Beckett. Can you say Josh? Josh. Can you say Beckett? Beckett. Can you say Josh? Josh. Can you say Willicombe? Willicombe. Well done. Oh, lovely one. An interesting approach, a word by word approach as opposed to doing them in twos.

That was interesting and they recorded that in an air conditioning unit. Of course, of course. They haven't said where it's recorded. Arca asks having a go at sound quality. I know. recorded that in an air conditioning unit. Of course, of course. They haven't said where it's recorded. Arca asks having a go at sound quality. I know. Who do we think it is? This is my just turned two year old son Noah attempting to say your names along with his

dad. We are intrigued to know how his accent will turn out as I'm Scottish, my husband is Northern Irish and we live in Newcastle upon Tyne. Oh God, incomprehensible I imagine. Thank you for entertaining us and keeping us through the night feeds. Please keep up and we live in Newcastle upon Tyne. Oh God, incomprehensible I imagine. Thank you for entertaining us and keeping us through the night feeds. Please keep up the good work. We have another one on the way and we need help to get through it. Thanks Melanie. I find people that, have we discussed this before? People who just have the accent of their parents as opposed to where they live.

Yes. We both know someone who has a Scottish accent, she has Scottish parents but grew up in Leicester who has a Scottish accent, he has Scottish parents, but grew up in Leicester who works for our agency, Andy. Is that true? I didn't know, I knew he was Scottish, I didn't know he grew up, I knew he lived in Leicester, but did he grow up in Leicester? Yeah. I didn't know, I thought he grew up in Scotland.

Yeah, yeah, so he's got this Scottish accent, but he grew up in Leicester. It's quite, some people just get the accent of their parents. It's weird, there's quite a lot of Scottish people at our management because they all get sort of start work on the Edinburgh Fringe. Exactly, exactly right. It's quite a Scottish heavy office, isn't it? My kids have got sort of, they sound a bit like me, but they're a bit obviously nicer, speak slightly nicer than I do.

I love your voice. Do you get much voiceover work for ads? Not enough, mate. Me neither. I don't think this is a trustworthy accent, is it? I did a Halfords advert and anything geysery, I've done some condiments, mechanics, that kind of thing. You promised us, Rob, an anecdote about something about Lou. Oh, right. So I've been reading this stoicism book. I'm quite into my stoicism.

Oh yeah. I saw the pictures of you in the pool. Yeah. I haven't read any more of that book because I'm not very good at reading. It's part of my dyslexia and nothing goes in, so I have to be very calm and chilled in order to process it. So reading's a bit on and off, but now I don't beat myself up enough for not being a reader. I understand that it's not something, that's why I listen to podcasts all the time because I can take that information in. A lot better. Anyway, the stoicism thing is, is about sort of like whatever's happening, you sort of accept it and you can't like,

that's the whole point of stoicism, is that you sort of just accept what's happening and try and look at the benefits from it. Obviously, a certain point of control, like you want to make sure that you're getting to work on time and all those sort of things, but if stuff goes wrong, there's a delayed flight. You just breathe and go, okay, there it is.

Rather than, oh, why is it delayed? Oh, this always happens to be an inventing a narrative. Oh, classic my luck. Oh, that's just your ego. Anyway, so that's a very brief instruction of it. So a lot of the time is, so what we've been doing is my problem in life is talking too much and it's also something that's brought me, you know, a living. I'd say it is your biggest strength and your greatest weakness.

A hundred percent, like anything, isn't it? However, it's something that will create another problem where if I just shut up, it normally solves itself. So in relationships, something I've learned as well is actually, do I really care about this or am I just having an argument about it for no, like, you know, when you go, well, I think that, you think, oh, do you actually, or do you just feel like you need to say something? So I've been reading this book and I think, yeah, actually, yeah, maybe sometimes I'm

offering my opinion up too much, but it's not even necessary or not helpful. So a prime example would be, but look, we're leaving the pool. I say, leave this, we're going for lunch, leave this stuff around the pool. We'll be back in an hour anyway, and we'll be back around the pool. And I go, no, we shouldn't, we should take it off and take it back to the room. And in case people want our beds. I'm like, well, there's loads of empty beds. It wasn't that busy.

So there's no, there's no ones not getting a bed. There's plenty of beds and it's quite a hassle. And also if we take everything back to the room that I'm carrying a lot of that. Yeah. That's a, that's a bit more of a saddle me down kind of vibe. You know what I mean? And Lou would be carrying stuff as well. Let's not come into an argument about this, but I'm doing the majority of the

logging. Okay. So I would say, no, I think we should leave it here. And if Lou, so, but what I've been, if Lou goes, let's take it all back up. Well, I think we should leave it here because there's those beds. And if it goes, well, no, because, and I'll go, I can either go back in again, and this argument carry on where she thinks one way I think the other, or I can go, okay, yeah, and try and be stoic, as it were to go, Oh, do you know what, actually, let's just take it back because actually, whatever, let's see, let's let the you let's fight, let fate decide that universal side. Let's just go. Also, I'm not that bothered about carrying it back. It's not that far, it's not that heavy. I'll just carry it back.

Yeah. Okay. And now because Lou's not really used to me being like this, it was actually annoying her more. So what would happen? What would happen? I don't know, but I don't, I think we should leave it here. Well, I think we should take it back.

Well, I think a bit of an argument and then one of us wins and it's a bit tense, right? So she slightly gets young with me because she's annoyed with, whatever, or vice versa. So then I just went, okay. And I start doing that. Yeah. And she's like, why are you being like that? Because it feels like you're being passive aggressive. Well, no, I wasn't because actually deep down. No, no, I know you're not. But I mean, to her, it might feel like you're going, oh, well, we'll just do it your way then. If that's how this relationship works, fine. I'll just back down and then we'll see how it fucking plays out doing it your way.

That's what she thinks I'm doing. But I'm not. I'm trying to change my approach a lot. And this is not just what I'm doing with Lou. That, so for example, I used to be sort of organized and a bit controlled. So I've organized a night out. I'm like, right guys, we're gonna meet here. Cause if we go and do that and do that and do that. And if I'm on the night out and that's not happening, I'm gonna be like, oh yeah, but actually that's a better

place and I've researched. I'm a bit better now going like, oh, where do you wanna go? And wherever they go, I just go. Cause it's a bit easier, isn't it? And then they go, someone goes, I've heard this burger place. He's gonna go, all right. It's actually quite, and even down to when someone goes, do you want a coffee? Now I just have black coffee, but I'd go, yeah. And they go, what do you want? I'll have whatever you're having. Oh, here we go. Just sort of like, and then

I might try something new. I might like it. And if I get a coffin, I don't like, I don't, so what? Yeah. You know what I mean? Exactly. So I've been, so I've been saying to him, all right, then we'll do that. And he's like, what's your problem? I'm like, well, I've been saying to him, all right, then we'll do that. And he's like, what's your problem? I'm like, I don't have a problem. I haven't got a problem. I'm happy to just leave, to take the stuff back if we're going for lunch. And I said to him, I'm just trying to be a bit more, I've been reading this book about stoicism and being a bit more actually, am I that bothered or am I just having an argument

because I feel threatened that my opinion is not being taken into account, but actually I don't really care. I'm just saying okay, Luke I'm just there with your little silent sad man face I'm like HAHAHAHA It's not a sad man face, I'm silent, it's not a sad man face It's just I'm not okay

It's called contentment. It's called contentment HAHAHAHA I don't know what to do here because like she's getting her own way and I'm quiet. Surely that's her dream. I'm giving her everything she's ever wanted. So yeah, that was stressful. Now it means there's a lot on lose decisions. Well, I didn't think of it like that.

Suddenly, the old content man isn't taking on much of the mental load, Rob. No, you can't fucking mental load me with that. I'm just writing you up. I've got greed and I'm going to carry it. And I don't want to do it. I've got the fucking towel load. I've got some inflatables. Fucking mental load.

I've got a salamander on me back here and a duck under me arm. All blown up. I'm all out of puff. Should be about three stone the amount of breath I've got out. Rob. Will you have me talk about your Cambridge thing? No, I'll do it another time. I'll save that for another time.

Who have we got today? Who have we got today? Tom Kerridge, the big TK. Oh, TK. Love Tom Kerridge, great guy. One of our great chefs. Do you know what? I've done loads of those cookery shows where Sunday brunch, Saturday, all them, and you

eat the food. Sometimes it's decent, sometimes it's a bit average, sometimes it's shit, but you always go, oh, that was really nice. He made these like chicken wing quail things when I was on Sunday brunch. I fucking gobbled them up like it was the last little coin on earth.

They was, I was like in the green room, you know when they put them in the green room, but everyone's too polite, I was like fucking, I just nailed it on my own. So nice. And I've been to his restaurant a couple of times, the one in Marlowe. And it's really, really nice. So, um, Tom Kerridge, great guy. Let's have a little chat with him, shall we? Tom Kerridge, welcome to the show. We've wanted you on for ages, Tom.

Yeah, thank you, mate. I've been, to get on, actually. Parenting is a nightmare. What is your setup at home, kids-wise? Well, I've got one eight-year-old, but he's about seven kids wrapped up in one. Right. I've actually met your son. We met in Dubai. We went for some food, and we were both out there. With Tom, not just actually met your son. We met in Dubai. We went for some food.

We were both out there. With Tom, not just you and his son. Yeah, and then we'd fly his son out for lunch. Mental. Yeah, no, we did. We were both on holiday at the same time, weren't we? You'd done a gig out there and we were out now on holiday. Yeah, yeah, no.

So we had about a little bit of lunch. It's quite funny because obviously you're a super famous chef and you want to be looked after. They want to look after you. They always give you free dessert basically. And it's a nightmare. You're trying to train and eat well, but everywhere you go you get a free dessert. I know. Everyone would think it's a dream, isn't it? You go places and people give you free puddings and it's like, and they are being genuinely lovely and nice, but you're

like, oh mate, I spent my whole life eating, so it's a constant battle and you're making it worse by just giving me more free food. Yeah, it's so delicious as well, it's so, yeah. Do you feel when you walk into a restaurant, like, that they tend to, like, do you always book ahead as yourself, like, so they know that you're coming? Like, it must be stressful, it's like,

if I was doing a gig and then I saw Frank Skinner sit down in the front row, I'd be like, oh, for fuck's sake. That's what you do, aren't you? Look. There's three people in there now. I don't like people. Yeah, now I'll have to give them a fake pudding. No, to be honest, I normally eat in restaurants

that are friends, so I might just drop them a text and say, listen, I'm coming in at any time. So it's normally friends restaurants or other spaces that I go and eat at normally. I do. But well, yeah, I do book it under my name because otherwise that's a bit odd, isn't it? Like, yeah, I'm not I'm not that much of a wanker. I pretend to be somebody else. And do you do stuff like, will you go to prep? Oh, look there, he's got a prepped coffee just there. Yeah, straight into prep this morning for a yoghurt and a coffee, yeah. It must be boring every time you go anywhere to eat, because if you've got friends that recommend somewhere and then you have the first bite, they're probably under pressure.

But the thing is, you're such a chilled out person that I would never get that from you. If I said, oh, I booked somewhere for dinner, it'd be weird that I booked it, not you. But if we were gonna have to eat and you were super busy for whatever reason, and I just said, I'll just book somewhere, because you are so relaxed and chilled, I'd be like, I won't really care as much,

but imagine if you've got a chef that's a bit more snobby and a bit snooty. Yeah, do you know what? I just quite like going out. I like restaurants as a bigger picture. Like I like the energy and the atmosphere. When you go into places and there's a buzz, you know, you go into busy restaurants that aren't always that good, but there's a buzz about it because people are loving it.

And I love the atmosphere and spaces of restaurants and noise and all of that sort of stuff. So it's not just about like temples of gastronomy that you're bowed down to. I quite like just the noise of a restaurant that's busy. Are you always taking it, like are you able to lose yourself in it or are you analysing it the whole time? No, I like to lose myself in it.

I really do enjoy other people's skillsets and cuisine and things like that. Like there's a couple of, when you do some really special restaurants where there's some proper skillset on show, it's really nice to be able to just go there and go, wow, these guys are amazing. They're brilliant at what they do. And I think what happens when you get to top level restaurants, most chefs, they're not trying to do everything. They're just trying to do what they do really well. And that's it. So you hone your skill set.

So every top end restaurant is very different. So you can go there and go and appreciate what everybody else is doing, I think. So I quite I do enjoy people who spend years and years and years of grafting to get to the top. So it's quite easy to like immerse yourself in that moment. I think. Yeah, because you don't go to like a fancy like Japanese place where you get sushi. Yeah. Oh, show me your Yorkshire pudding, mate. Yeah. So it's a tough. Yeah.

Yeah. You know what? They the top chef? Yeah, yeah. You know what, I'll make this tuna sashimi better, sticking it in a giant Yorkshire pudding and pouring gravy on the top. Yeah. Going back to kids, you've got an eight-year-old that's like seven children wrapped up in wine, you said. He's got a lot of energy, but he's quite a chilled kid from my memory. I don't remember him being difficult or anything like that, but he's just got a lot of energy. Yeah, he's got a lot of it.

He's just, he's very full on. It doesn't stop still very often, and he doesn't stay focused on one particular thing lots and lots and lots. So he likes to do loads of different things all the time. Yeah, I wonder where he gets that from. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. He's also quite physical. Like he was, he's a monster. He's a giant. He was £11.4 born. Whoa! He's very tall. He's very tall, boys. I think they're about the same age as my kids. They're not much taller.

Yeah, he's a monster. He's like, yeah, he was £11. Are you tall? Yeah, well, I'm six foot three, yeah. How are you tall? Yeah, well, I'm six foot three. Yeah. Oh, are you? Yeah, I'm six foot three and also like a big lad. So he comes out of the same vein, although he's bigger than me born. And he's like, but he loves things like, I don't know, he was he was it. He went through three or four years of like kickboxing and jujitsu.

And then he dropped into rugby in his now his thing. Rugby rugby is his thing. And go karting. he loves go karting. Rugby and go karting. Although he does know that he's probably about the same weight as Lewis Hamilton now. He does know that it's probably not going to be his chosen career path in a racing car. He's definitely got more of a rugby energy than an F1 driver energy. They're going to be like small and weedy and nerdy, aren't they, Formula One drivers really?

Yeah, they're tiny, aren't they? He's been more like brute force, isn't he? He's much more brute force. Were you a rugby guy, Tom? I was. I loved rugby. I grew up in a West country, grew up in Gloucester. So the only thing, you're either a builder or a rugby player. I dropped out of both. I was no, I was dropped out of both of them.

So I was I was all right. I played quite a bit up to I was about 17 or 18. And then there was a point where it just becomes really like physical. Kitchens, kitchens took over. Yeah. And so when you I thought I was rugby term, I was just rolling with it. I was like, oh, kitchens took over when I was a... I didn't understand what you meant by that. When the kitchens rule came in.

Yeah, it was impossible for us, I didn't know what to do. And I was like, yeah yeah yeah, that kitchen hero was... You all had to piss in a kitchen sink and drink it. Initially, the old kitchens... And it worked for me. I'll drink this out of a pint last, why are you drinking that out of a sink? And so, you're quite up for the next decade, stood on the side of a rugby pitch, kind of watching your son? I am. I love it. Yeah. I agree. Well, I actually helped coach a bit on the Sunday. So I'll

drop in. Yeah. Cause it's like, I mean, I'm sure you guys are the same. You're super busy, aren't you? When you're, when you're on tour and when you're always away or it's always busy or my world is always like early mornings and very late nights and you don't see them you have to live with that parenting kind of do don't you and it's how do I make the difference and what do I do so I got involved and ended up ended up helping coach I'd say coach it's more of like a classroom assistant whilst other people are you putting down the cones yeah I put out the cones and heard them around a little bit and just and just move them about and

just go, no, stand over there and then listen to the coaches for what we're supposed to be doing. I'm not, I don't get included in the whiteboard at the background where they're talking about team tactics. So they're pretty, like, at 7, they're- So they have tactics in rugby, do they? No, no, no. All right.

I thought it was just fucking free for all. Go where you want. So they have tactics in rugby, do they? No, no, no. All right. I thought it was just fucking free for all. Go where you want. At the minute, it's a little bit like pass the ball to AC, my son, see how many people he can take out and then pass it to somebody else where there's no space. That's the tactic. That's what happened in like my school. There was two big kids, Sean Devinish and James Pamphold. And as soon as they got the ball,

they'd be put in PE, one on each team, and it's basically get the ball to them and they won't be able to, no one can stop them from running to the other end of the pitch. I was saying, you have to try and make sure that he's focusing on his technique though as well, because he can coast a little bit at this age,

because he's so big. But if he's got the technique and the size, then he could really do something in rugby, couldn't he, I suppose? Do you try to do that, or is that a bit too Mbappe project and a bit too keen Beanpear? No, well, he's keen. He does play for two, he does do it for two clubs.

He does one on a Sunday and then he trains at another club on a Tuesday. And he's quite, like his hero is a guy called Joe Marlowe, who's an England rugby player. Like I know you. So Joe, like he has, I don't know if you remember, Rob, but he loves a mohawk haircut. So my son-

Yeah, is he still got his mohawk? Yeah, my son, he's got a mohawk. Like he's just like, like he loves it. He's had that years, hasn't he? Yeah, he'll go through a phase where he shaved it all off and then not quite as short as mine. And then he went, now I want to grow it back. And then he'll have two days of like normal hair.

And then he goes, now I'm mohawk again. Got a mohawk here. He wants to dye it like peroxide blonde as well, but we're not quite at that point yet. What about the school? What's the school? Yeah. You'll add a mohawk at your kid's school? Well, no one's said anything yet, so I'm waiting.

He's too big, Rob. None of the teachers are so scared of him. Yeah. You'd get sent home with a mohawk at my school, especially dyed blonde. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, at primary school, is it right? I mean, maybe I get it, seeing a school when there's a proper uniform and everyone's got to try and conform. Maybe, yeah.

I don't know, I was an eight year old, I think they'd probably go, oh, fuck it, just let him get away with it. He's just expressing himself, yeah. Yeah, he'll grow out of it. Has he got hurt yet? Not emotionally, I mean. Not really. No, not really. Yeah, it'll grow out of it. Has he got hurt yet? Not emotionally, I mean. Not really. No, not really.

I imagine these opponents do. Yeah, he's caused a lot of injuries. Yeah, it's actual problem we've got to control. He gets a proper red mist. We call it Roy Keenism in our house. He's got Roy Keenism where he gets a proper red mist. We call it Roy Keenism in our house. He's got Roy Keenism where he gets proper red mist and like super angry. He's got to like take into one side and count to 10. Really? Wow. You know what they say, if you remove that from his game, he won't be the player that he is. Do

you know what I mean? That's it, Josh. Yeah, I think you're right there. Maybe we don't, we want to control it and harness it rather than quell it. And do you have that in the kitchen? Not really anymore. I've got to a point where I'm not that, on a daily basis, when we were running and started the Hand of Flowers. So the Hand of Flowers is nearly 20 years old.

And that level of pushing on a business from getting it from opening to being successful to winning a mission starts going on and winning two missions. So there's always a drive and a control and not an anger. I get really angry or pissed off about things that were so simple that I couldn't understand why someone was would get that wrong. And then if they get it wrong two or three times, yeah, I would absolutely lose my shit. What would get under your skin at that stage? Because when you're setting up a business,

that 10 year period where it's all you're consumed about every single day of your life, because you're trying to prove a point really, aren't you? Trying to get that validation. It's like me and Rob with this podcast. I would have when I started, when we did comedy, Josh, at the start, you are scraping around for gigs and you are,

it's way too important to you at that stage of your career, anyone, whatever the business, whether it's a chef or a comedian. And one bad gig also can ruin you for days in terms of your I'll be furious and what's that, do you know what I mean? Is that what happened for you Tom? Yeah it's a similar sort of thing because you very much live in the moment, don't you? You're telling jokes at a gig and you're making sure people, you want people to come and have a great time. And it's the same as in a restaurant, you want people to come and have a great,

and if you do something so simple that fucks up an evening for someone that you just think that we could have got that so much better, but it's normally just things that common sense stuff, like food that's coming up, that's still cold in the middle, or something that's just so, so simple, or forget, like the biggest one we had, coming up that's still cold in the middle or something that's just so, so simple or

forget, like the biggest one we had, it used to be known as Stupid Corner because everyone who worked in there had like normally quite small brains and it was stupid. That was the section that they'd work on. But it was forgetting the amount of chips like you do. Like there's a table of four, three of them have got to have a stake in chips and they'd only bring up two portions. But they've done three lots of onion rings and you'd be like, well, you've done three lots of onion rings, but you've only done two portions of chips. I don't... Yeah. What the fuck? Can you just be like... It's just really simple things like that that you

just get quite waned up by quite easily. I was speaking to someone about the hours when you run a kitchen and they are, ours are anti-social Rob, but really they're not that anti-social, they're you know, we, I think we have some difficult hours but they're made up for that we have like good free time that we can spend with our kids that other people with nine to fives wouldn't have. But you're, could you take me through when you're at your peak, the hours that you're at work? Like take me through your day. Yeah. This is establishing your, the hand of flowers was one.

This is establishing hand of flowers. Yeah. I suppose the industry, the industry has massively moved on now and it's changed very much and lots of people are doing, but what, but not really when you open a business and you run it yourself. So, yeah, of course. You know, I would be in the kitchen by, I don't know, quarter to seven in the morning, and you'd start by making the bread and doing whatever else, and you get set up and you try and get yourself established before the rest of the chefs turn up, and then everyone starts coming in and the veg starts going away, and you start, like the day starts being active, and you're straight away under the pressure because your first, you know because your first table's at 12 o'clock. So you've got, essentially, I don't know,

four, five hours of just running around to get ready for lunch. And the hand of flowers, when it was like, there was a period where it just went to mission stars and I'd been on Great British Menu and it was just so, so busy. And you'd be running around trying to get ready for lunch and lunch would be from 12 till four, but then most of your prep work would be gone.

So you then got, and the first table's back in at six, you then got two hours to kind of like restock everything. So you then do four to six constantly trying to run around. Like, so you've been in since quarter seven, seven o'clock in the morning. Then, you know, you're massively under pressure, then there's no real let down, you try someone tries to cook a bit of stuffed tea, which is normally spaghetti bolognese, and that's it. And then you might get to

then it's the evening service. And then by the time you start at 6pm, and then it finishes at maybe last main course might go at 10 1030, by the time desserts are done, and everyone's cleaning the stove, cleaning the kitchen, proper scrub down. You might be done by half 11 if you're lucky, maybe midnight. Jesus. And then you go home or you go to the pub or you go to whatever else and try and get a late night and have a couple of beers and do whatever else.

And then you'd be back in again at quarter to seven again the next morning. So it was massively full on. I would do, I'd be easily doing 18 hour days. There were some days, I've got to be honest, there was a few days when we ran it as the business that 2008 when the recession hit, the first one that's been through, we would be, I would go to work quarter to seven on a Friday morning, work all the way through and then on a Friday night, I'd work through the night making bread because it was the only way of trying to get a little bit of extra money,

make all the bread and then Beth, my wife would come in, take these loaves of bread, probably about 50 loaves of bread that I'd make overnight. And she'd sell them on a little market store in town on a Saturday morning. But I work all the way through and then the staff would start coming in and then I work all the way through and then the staff would start coming in and then I work all the way through Saturday as well. So I've done Friday morning all the way through, all the way through Saturday and then Saturday at the end of service about midnight, go to the pubs

at about two or three in the morning. So I'd be up in the kitchen at about quarter to six on a Friday morning and quarter to seven on a Friday morning. I'd go to bed at about three AM on a Friday morning, at quarter to seven on a Friday morning, I go to bed at about 3am on a Sunday morning. And I do that every week. You say your son's got relentless energy. Oh my God. But you must have done things like that in gigs where you've been like, you've walked in in Aberdeen and then you've got to be down in Bristol and you're like, what? I've got to get from there to there. And so you've got to drive through the night. It's the same sort of thing. Did you have the same thing? Like I've got a vivid memory of when I, it was like when

I just signed with an agent or around then, my friend saying, oh, let's go out on a Friday night. And I looked at my diary and I didn't have a Friday night free for six months and I thought oh my god that's amazing, I've made it. This is the best thing that could have ever happened. I think in that early bit I was, because I loved what I was doing, it's all I wanted to do. I didn't want to do anything else so I was just like you just do it, do you know what I mean? Now So I was just like, you just do it. Do you know what I mean? Now, I'm dead to it. I don't want to ever do it again. But...

What do you do with just on a Friday and Saturday? Yeah, just on a Friday. Yeah. No, no, no. You know what I mean? Like at that early stage, I'm sure all you've ever wanted since you were 10 or whatever was to run your own restaurant. So of course you're going to throw yourself into it, right?

Yeah. Well, I got to be honest. It's exactly the same now. I still look at diaries of when we can go, what we do and when can we meet people? What have we got? You know, what sort of things can we structure and when? When do we get a bit of downtime, family time or just hanging out with friends? And it's not it's not very often even now, which is why I try to box off those Sunday mornings, you know, try to make sure that those are the things

that you can do with doing the rugby and that. But otherwise, yeah, it's still exactly the same. Like my world is like, no days are the same. There's always something different. So what's Sunday afternoon? Are you not having Sunday after, you're not having weekends off then really? Cause you're obviously weekends are busy

for you in your restaurants. I know you're not actively in the kitchen every day as such, but are you still visiting and getting to them all at weekdays? Yeah, Saturdays and Sundays. Saturdays we try, there's always some, there's normally, I don't know, two out of four on a weekend I've got something on, whether it's a cooking gig somewhere, whether it's in one of the restaurants or whether it's doing something like one of the food festivals or cooking. Yeah, or corporate. You know, exactly. And then Sunday we try to keep as our day. day. And it's a good thing. The rugby clubs are like a really

good thing. There's a real social thing to get any training in the morning, and all the kids have great fun. And then they hang around for a couple of hours afterwards, you know, that's nice. Chatting and playing and do whatever else. And then we'll have a bit of tea, go over and make sides just you know, like try and have a normal Sunday like anybody else. Yeah. The chefs do like famous chefs like yourself. Do you get like super rich people saying, come to my house and cook for me.

And you just charge a corporate rate. Does that happen where you have you go and do that? Yeah, people do. Yeah, but I don't do it. I like I feel really, really weird about going to somebody's own. We put ourselves I do it for charity. So I'll do it like I'll cook at someone's house for a table. Right. Yeah. For a charity gig. Can I ask then, because I think a lot of people will be interested in this. What, because it's a big thing for kids is what was food like for your son? And did you have a different

approach to it to other kind of parents? Because it's really like something people find tough. The restriction the kid puts on it, all that kind of stuff. Plain pasta dominating. Yeah. Yeah. No, AC gives absolutely no shit to his dad. He's still brown and beige food. That's it.

Every now and then. We went through that whole phase when he was much younger, like three, where you try and eat everything and then halfway through a meal go, no, I younger, like three, where you try and eat everything. And then halfway through a meal, go, no, I don't like that anymore. No, I hate that. And then we got to the point of, okay, you've got to try everything

and try all the vegetables and do all of it. And then he goes through that and then he goes, no, I hate that. And then he goes through pain. But now he's good with fruit. He's all right with broccoli, peas, sweet corn, carrots, if they're raw, not really cooked. Yeah, it's almost exactly like my daughter. Yeah. And then anything else, it's got to be like

grated up and cooked in like a bolognese sauce and then... Oh, she won't fall for that. Oh, really? Yeah. And the old hiding a vegetable, she's like, there's a tiny bit of green in my pasta sauce. Why is that? I've got one that is just purely plain pasta. Well, even have bolognese. And does that get you down, Tom? As a food man, I find it frustrating and I have to kind of process it a bit, much like the food. I have to process a bit and go, all right, well, this will parble.

But my life isn't great food. Do you know what I mean? And so how was that? It is really irritating. Now it is. It does irritate because you go, you'd like to go out for a nice dinner and go to explain what like really good restaurants are like and what, you know, what people are doing and the skill set and because he actually quite likes the process of cooking. But the idea of sitting in a restaurant and going, can I have chips? Like it's just like, like, it's just like, so we don't, there's a lot of places that we don't, we won't, we don't go with him.

It's the same as everyone else. We just don't bother. You just go, let's go as easy as then because he likes the pizza. Do you know what I mean? It's just easier. I'm a home. So when, when I'm at home, I'll always cook. So I'll cook and it might be something really, really simple. I'll always do just vegetables or do like just whatever else.

And I hope that when we sit down, that he sees me and Beth eating differently or have his, then he eventually goes, that's the norm. That's what normal people eat. But I mean, we're the same as everybody else. It doesn't matter. And there's a couple of kids in this school that eat everything, or at least his parents say that they eat everything.

Oh, they're so good. They eat. Now, I don't know if they really that good or they're just being that middle class parents show off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They love that, don't they, that they eat everything. Oh, I hate those kids. Yeah. It's the parents, not the kids. And I think it's bullshit. No, I hate the kids as well, Rob.

Yeah, I'll start testing. I'll go, all right then, send them around. I'll whip a prawn out, eat that. Yeah. How busy were you when your son was born? You know, because was you still at that mad schedule stage or did you book some time off? No, we were really busy. And that was the only period and it's the longest time I've ever had off and that was two weeks.

I've never had two weeks off in a row before. Really? Yeah, and it was when he was born and I haven't had two weeks since. I might have had 10 or 12 days, but there's not been a period where I've had two weeks solidly off before. Like, and that was when he was born.

And then I haven't had one since we are. We don't give me one. We do have cool like little breaks and holidays like this. Yeah. Like just this weekend, like we've just had three days down in Wichita. So we got a place down in it off the North Kent coast. So we get down there every now and then they're still down there now. And then we're quite lucky.

We go into the Olympics for the next weekend for a couple of days there. And then we're quite lucky. We're going to the Olympics for the next weekend for a couple of days there. And then we've got a holiday booked in August. So we do get blocks of time. But it's never two weeks solid of us hanging at home and doing stuff like decorating. You know, like you're always here like, I've a dad being told,

yeah, oh, yeah, the Mrs. left me a list of jobs to do whilst, you know, I'm looking after the kids for this week and I've got to do this, isn't it? I'm like, I mean, I'm never at home to have a list of jobs, which is just because I'm so shit at DIY. When you say about that, when you took us through your day as a chef, one of the first things I think is not just that's brutal work wisewise, but like when do you pay a check-in? Or like when do you like, do you know what I mean? When do you pay your council tax or all that kind of stuff? Like all of those things that you have to do are you need to just renew your passport. When do you, like how does that work? Yeah, life admin, it's really hard, it's really difficult. Like it is. And so that's why a

lot of chefs, it's quite a young man's game because they kind of like either live in rented property and they've got, they get free life and they just do, they get, and why the industry has changed. Yeah, exactly. And why the industry has changed quite a bit because people do, you know, you do recognise that people do need to actually get to the doctors at some point or go to a dentist for a six month checkup or do a, you know, you need to be able to have that structure in your life. But you're right, it's really hard to try and find those things.

But most chefs are working weekends, so they're most working, so like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays, are their days off, you know, so actually, there's a lot of things, so it's actually quite easy to do lifeinton because everybody else is trying to do stuff on a weekend. You can't do it. Everything else is shut. You can, you can, you do get the opportunity to do stuff, but a lot of chefs will go on their night, the night before their day off. So when they finish work, they'll know a place. Most chefs know a place is open till very late. So they'll finish work and then go out till very, very late. And on their first day off, they won't wake up till three in the afternoon because they've

absolutely got battered. And then they'll spend a couple of hours sorting themselves out and just trying to work out what's going on, getting their washing on, and just doing just normal stuff for a couple of days. And then they're back in it again. Bloody hell. And are you managing to get to parents' evenings and those sort of things at school? Because I find now they're getting a bit older, like mine, the same age as yours, there's

something every, there's either a PE day, parents' evening or like a dance performance or a competition or something or school football match. It's like, I'm relating to that. How are you managing to get to that or not get to it? Yeah, no, I'm not there. I'm not, I don't, I don't manage to get to any of them because it's normally, like it's like, I'm relating to that. How are you managing to get to that or not get to it? Yeah, no, I'm not there. I'm not, I don't manage to get to any of them because it's normally like, it's not after school. School finishes at 3.30, isn't it?

Yeah. And you're like, well, 3.30, I mean, most places I'm still doing lunch. Do you know what I mean? Lunch service is just like, it's like, we're finishing lunch service at 3.30. Yeah. How have they finished their full day at work? Do you know what I mean?

I do have this conversation with him. I'm going, listen, I know you're only eight, but you're finishing school at 3.30. That's your whole day done. Listen, most of these guys in the kitchen, they've still got another, they've still got, that's not even half their day done, mate. You know, I do try and lay it down to him.

So no, I don't make it best there for most of them. So the parents evenings and the things like that. And I do get involved in lots of other ways if you can, like if I can make a Tuesday or I can't. Like if I can get if I know when it is and I can block it in the diary in advance, I can get in there and make sure I'm there. But otherwise, it is really difficult. You know, because they make a decision on it.

The school's almost like a week before or like a few days. And all these weeks, you know, you know, I haven't got enough time to change what I'm doing then to get to that. It's quite hard if your if your schedule's quite busy. But yeah, that's balanced. And with filming, do you think Ed Gamble knows anything about food or is he just blagging it? Do you want to ask the same question to me about comedy?

We'll double him up here. Do you know what? I get asked that a lot because I do get asked that a lot. What is Ed doing on Great British Menu? What is he doing there as a judge on Great British Menu? You know Ed and you know him well. He's a good man. And he's an absolute foodie. Like he's real, he's constantly, like where he's on tour, where he goes on gigs, he goes and books restaurants that are nearby.

He's always looking for great places to eat. His food knowledge is really, really good. He loves cooking. He loves being around restaurants. He's so well for great places to eat. His food knowledge is really, really good. He loves cooking. He loves being around restaurants. He's so well traveled as well. He goes places where he loves to eat. And he genuinely, I think his perspective on Great British Menu is actually one that is of,

like a consumer, like anybody else. Like somebody sits there, he might not know how they've made it, but he knows if it tastes good. He knows if it's good. He knows if it's good. He's a food journalist really, isn't he? You know, like he's like encyclopedic knowledge of places and he's interviewing people about food all the time.

But yeah, he does know his stuff. But whenever you meet him in town for a drink, he's like, I'm just going to here because I've got to go to that. And he'll be jumping around to five different places to try a certain dish and all stuff like that. He's proper into it. Yeah, really into it. Like I ask him, where's cool to go and eat now?

Oh, do you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ed, where have you eaten recently? Because he spends his whole life because, you know, he's married. He lives in a cool part of London. You know, he doesn't want to go to Walthamstow. Don't give me that. That's not cool. Josh, if you got on telly five years later, like Ed,

you'd be in Walthamstow as well, mate. You're only there because you got on telly five years earlier, mate. That's how it works. They started with a deal with Skidder and Notting Hill. Everyone sent me. But he's always eating out. So I'm always asking him where to go, what to go and eat, where have you been recently that's great and cool? And, you know, he's always got somewhere. He's always got somewhere. On that, we should say, when we came on the call, we said, have you got anything to promote? Because we are normally like someone will be on

because they've got something to promote. And you just said, oh, there's always something to promote. What are the million projects you're up to at the moment, Tom? Well, we've got, so there's a TV show that's out in the minute called Tom Carriage Cooks Britain, which has got a book with it as well, which has been actually I spent the last year. That's the way to do it.

Isn't it the book with the TV? I thought Liz Trust already cooked it. Yeah, I think the show's been on longer than she's been prime minister. I think we're on week four, which is gone past Liz. You cooked the rotten cabbage in episode three. Yeah, exactly. But it was actually really good. I went and visited producers and farmers up and down the country and then used their ingredients.

It was a proper old school TV kind of show where we took a food truck, very similar to Gary Rosedale or Rick Stein, like for 20 years ago. You take a food truck, go and visit a farmer and producer, cook what they cook in the field. Like it was a 1957 Chevy truck with great big thing with a piece of everything in the back, but it had no, like it's got no brakes, no seat belts, no indicators, like it was a proper death trap

and like it was well-frightening and it actually didn't start either. So there's all these beautiful opening scenes of me driving around the countryside and having a lovely time. But the reality is that every time we finished, it would get it would break down and stick on the low loader and then it would be driven to somewhere else and then we film it again. There's actually one part of me just driving around around in a car park pretending I'm on my way to Cornwall. But shhh don't tell anyone. I just googled Tom Kerridge cooks, Brian.

Tom Kerridge is a national treasure and this is his gift to the nation. Jay Rayner. Wow. Jay Rayner said that. But when you type in Tom Kerridge, obviously it predicts what you're going to Google. What do you think the first dish that it predicted I wanted Tom Kerridge? Fish and chips. No, carrot cake. Really? Yeah. I like that. Have you got a famous carrot cake? Well I've done a few recipes probably but I didn't imagine it's not as famous as the amount of shit I get from the Daily Mail about the cost of fish and chips.

That's what I thought the first thing that you Google Google would come up is price, Tom Carriage, price of fish and chips. No, that didn't come up. That didn't come up at all. It came up. Jay Rainer's nice quote and then someone who's desperate for your carrot cake recipe. Tom Carriage cooks British. Are you doing more British menu as well?

Yeah, we start filming that next month actually. So the next series of that starts coming through. I can't tell you what the theme is. I haven't been embargoed on it. I just can't remember. So, yeah. When you're trying food on TV, because obviously we work in TV

and we know that it can be slow and there's retakes and there's all that kind of stuff. Is it like sometimes just like cold and is it like sometimes like or is it real like do you know what I mean is it more of a tv show or is it really happening and they're just trying to catch it? Some of them are it's a great British menu they work really hard the reason why it's been so successful and great chefs cooking it or chefs that really want to try and prove themselves and do well in it is because they work so well the The kitchen is very close and it runs almost like a restaurant like clockwork style.

There's so many people we haven't seen, but the moment the dish is put on the pass, it comes straight into the judging chamber and we get to eat it. So it is, it does come to us warm. It does come to us like it would be in a restaurant, which is really, really good because it means that the chefs can showcase it. But yeah, I mean, we've all done TV before where you, you know, live TV is the worst, isn't it? When you're eating something and someone's cooked and you're just going, oh yes, delicious this. And it's like, no, yeah, I mean, it's like undercooked

and slightly raw or a bit chewy or whatever. Yeah, because you're rushing it. You've got Tim Lovejoy yapping at you. You're like, leave it out, mate. I'm trying to get this. Give me a chance. You and Maria are sharing some photos. This is burning here. Yeah, exactly that. A bit of rubbish pants. Give me a chance. You and Maria are showing some photos.

This is burning here. Yeah, exactly that. You've got rubbish pans. Yeah. You cooked some there, Rob. No, but I've seen it. Basically, it's like getting an absolute Jedi in and giving them a rusty gun.

And you're like, what? I can't do anything with this. Where's my lightsaber? You've got proper gas stoves and the heats. You see them in them, the conductive ones, where they've got an Ikea pan on it and it's not hot enough. And you've got their palm on it. I'm trying to do a steak here, help me out.

I'd say though, when I was on Sunday brunch with you years and years ago, normally you eat a bit and you have to be sort of semi-polite. But I had you do some like sort of chicken wings or quail chicken wings. It was so nice. I literally just gobbled it all up in the green room in front of me. If I'm being too polite and I just smash through it, I could add four pints and got a Kentucky. Yeah, coming off a late night on a Saturday, just straight, just go straight into Sunday

brunch, having whatever foods put in front of you. That's great. Have you ever fucked up a meal on TV and had to just kind of, kind of just pretend, like on a live TV show, you go, oh, just get away with it. They'll say it's nice anyway. Yeah, no, not really on live TV. It's always been, I've always been all right. There's been a couple of things where I cut a celeriac in half actually once in the four Sunday brunch and right in the middle it was rotten. So I just kind of like cut it in halfiac in half actually once in for Sunday brunch and

right in the middle it was rotten. So I just kind of like cut it in half and just put the whole thing in a bin and ignored it in the recipe. Just completely just cut it in half and looked at it and just put it in the bin. I bet there's someone listening going, I swear I saw him do that. He's just cut that in half and put it all in the bin. He's got this weird thing. Every meal I'll cut a celeriac and put it in the bin. He's got this weird thing. Every meal of cut celery, I can put it in the bin. It's like this weird. And I look, you look up at Simon Rirard, looks at Simon

and you can see both of us and chefs, our faces, just like, we'll just ignore that and we'll just carry on. And we talk about something else. It's like I do quite like doing live TV though, because it is good. It does keep you on the edge. You've got to be talking. You've got to. It gives it. It gives a bit. It's a bit of a buzz, isn't it?

I tell you, I really enjoy it. I like the energy of it, it's good. But I would say Sunday brunch is slightly too long, as I guessed. Yeah, about two and a half hours. Just get me in quick chat, let me fuck off, I'm late on Sunday. Do they always keep you on the table, Rob?

Oh, yeah, because I'm an absolute, I don't shut up, do they? So they're desperate for someone on there to not stop talking. So I'm always on with quiet people because they'll save Rob for them because they may not talk. And then I get told off for talking too much. Yeah. That food that you had on Sunday brunch was outrageous, Tom. And I've eaten at your restaurants before,

Hanna Flowers and you're one of the creepier and one of the best. One of the best we've ever produced, Tom. And the best thing about it is you are so nice and lovely and not a complete twat and it shows you can be super talented and a good guy. And we are thinking of chefs at this moment, me and Robert both from the names in our head. Oh, I can glitch you some.

That guy that does the sandwiches on Sunday brunch, he is a lovely bloke. Have you met him? Max. No, who does that? Oh yeah, Max, I have met Max. He's amazing. He's great. Oh my god, he's brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He just does his mad sandwiches. Yeah, such a nice guy. He's a mad scientist of his sandwiches anyway. It's got a level of texture,

level of like, citrus seeds flavor or whatever. Yeah, he's brilliant. Yeah, I love him. Yeah, his sandwich shop is up in North London, isn't it? And he's got a pub down in Salisbury or something, where I think he just spends most of his time heavily drinking and making sandwiches. It's just like he's absolutely living his best life. Matches amazing. Sandwiches and beer. I'm going to bring this up to Tom and Josh. Sorry. Tom Kerridgeville's son was evacuated from a soft place centre

that was on fire and he didn't realise because his phone was off. Is this a real headline? Yeah, well, yeah, that is one. It was a true story. Like, what was that on? I must have been talking about that to Chris Evans, actually. I was doing an interview, I was doing like Virgin Radio, something, a book promotion, and he was asking how the family was and what happened. Because he lives in Marlowe near us. There was a big fire a few years ago at the Soft Play Center where the fields next to it. And it was absolutely like, I mean, all the fields were massively on fire.

And he had to be, he got evacuated, but like the childcare that was with him in the day was looking after him, but they couldn't get out through the carpark. So I had to run through the fields and evacuated through the fields. And Beth, my wife, was ringing me up. I had absolutely no idea.

And then they turned the phone on. I had like 19 missed calls. And she's like, what? And what's going on? Like the soft plays on fire. So she's messaged you that it's on fire, but obviously she can't get through to the childcare. So she's trying to ring you to see if you've heard from childcare. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a day of chaos, that. No one was hurt, it was all right,

it was just a field of corn. So, the field of corn was on fire? Yeah, next to the soft play centre, so it was like this whole thing, like it was a hot summer's day, and it was one of them things that just went up. And then why did she have to run through the field? Because they couldn't get out through the front of the building where they got evacuated that way, where the cars were separate to somewhere. I mean, to be honest, I don't know. It's like, it was a few years ago and they're all all right now.

No one's done. That must be like when you get the thing of like the soft plays on fire and I can't get through to childcare, which is a stressful message to get if you get it at the time, but obviously you got it an hour later. The one thing you don't really expect at Soft Play,

you might get, we've gone to ask, but he's broken his arm. That's what you're expecting. You're not expecting the Soft Play is on fire. That is a long shot. Has he been to any of your restaurants? Yes, yes. So we got something called a Butcher's Tap and Grill, which is kind of like steaks and burgers and things.

And he'll eat in there quite a bit. The Coach, which is like a, it's a Michel and things. And he'll eat in there quite a bit. The coach, which is like a it's a mission star pub in the middle of Marlowe. And it's kind of like sit up at the counter and does lots of bits, like lots of like like separate things. You can it's not necessarily a free course. I'll of course, we'll go in there and have a couple of things. He's not eating at the hand of flowers because it goes through that whole process.

Like, you know, he's he won't fucking eat anything. Like you're just like, mate. And then, and he eats in the one in London at the Carinthia as well, because it's quite a good, you know, it's a big, busy, bustily, like great big room and it's a nice place. So he does eat in them. He does, I mean, he loves being in restaurants.

He's quite a, and he does love being in a kitchen and every time we've, from an early age, we've always made sure that you have to go in the kitchen and say thank you to the chef so he's never been he's quite comfortable and confident with grown-ups and environments that maybe everybody else or particularly kids would be a little bit intimidated by so he'll walk into a kitchen and say thank you very much and yeah so it's a big part of his life i mean it's a big part of his life isn't it so yeah of course he's in it. Tom can you it's a big part of his life. I mean, it's a big part of his life, isn't it? So, yeah, of course. He's in it. Tom, can you, it's not really parents, but I'm interested. Talk me through the process of getting a Michelin star.

Okay, so you've- Oh yeah, that is interesting. Like you've done your, how many, I don't know, how many years did it take to get one at the Hand of Flowers? And is it anything to do with the tire people? As a separate question. As a separate question.

No, it is, so it's the same company, I can start with that. It's. As a separate question. No, it is. So it's the same company. I can start with that. It's the same company. And they invented, it's over 100 years old now, the Michelin Guide, started in France. And there was a whole route from North France to the Scyper France, which was the road. Michelin invented this guide because people were starting to drive cars and they enjoyed it.

And they wanted, they put bits on the map of restaurants that were kind of like worth going and then they got them all around France where they find good spaces and it was good because it would mean that they would use their tires more, which means that they were right. So it started off from that. So it's the same people. I know that bloke who's made out the tires, but Ben done his name is yeah. Is it him that comes in to check the meals? Yeah, in disguise.

Is it him that comes in to check the meals? Yeah, in disguise. But you know he's there. Like a stick. Yeah, like an early door shit Mr Blobby. It's got French. You're not going to believe who's in. Oh, quick guys, up your game. Don't you burn that steak.

Big dogs in, benders in. Bedner, bedner, bedner. Knocking pings over the benders. Cut this up before we make the animated tires. How long had you been going before you got your first one? Well, the Hand of Flies have been open for 10 months when we won the first star. But I had had a Mission Star in a restaurant before. So I left, I was a head chef of a restaurant somewhere where we'd won a Michelin star or kept a Michelin star. Then when we opened the Hand of Flowers, I sent them my CV. I just let them know where I was. It said, listen, I'm just moving up from my own business and it's a pub and it's

whatever else and this is it. And they came, they inspected, you don't know when they're coming. They don't tell you, they don't book under, you know, it's Michelin by the way, they might announce after they've eaten, they might go, here's my card, can I say hello to the chef? And then you all go, oh shit, what did they have? And you start looking at what they've eaten. But they don't really do that now anymore. They just turn up and you only know if you've won the star or kept the star when the guide comes out normally. Oh my God. Yeah, I know. Yeah. So it's quite a step forward.

Every year when the guide comes out is like the worst morning of your life. Yeah, there's a lot of, well you get an invite that they didn't used to do it. They now do a kind of like an award ceremony where there's new stars get given, you know, their new mission stars. And if you're an existing mission star chef, you get an invite, but you start getting nervous that, you know, maybe two weeks before the actual award date, but you haven't got your official invite. So the chef community is always on like tenderhooks. It's always like, oh my God, have you got an invite yet? If you got like, everyone's texting each other. And then when you go, and then you might get, I've got an invite and then you're sat there going,

fucking hell, I haven't had an invite yet. Shit. Like, and then it kind of like, so it's all, it's always, there's always a bit of tension. Like it is quite a nerve wracking thing. Have you just text Gordon Ramsay now and say you go into the Michelin event tomorrow? Yeah, well yeah, in January I could text Gordon and go, you go in. And like, and he would blank me and not say anything and just turn out and then go, oh, sorry, I saw, I only just saw your text. Yeah.

So you're at the stage now, though, really. So you've still got two. Have you got two? How many have you got? You got two at the hand of flowers. Two at the hand of flowers and one at the coach. Yeah. Right. So is it just one meal they're judging it on? Yeah, I think they judge it over a period of the year. So I think if they're going to give somewhere a star,

if it's a new restaurant that they're going to give a star, they'll probably judge it. They're probably four or five times out of that year, maybe even more. And I think if they're going to go from one to two star, because then they start making those big decisions when it goes to two star and then two to three star, I think they do a lot of inspections and they might use global inspectors as well. People that inspect in Japan or in Germany or in America. And so that the standard across boards, they want

it to be as fair as possible, I think. So if you eat in a three mission style restaurant in Japan and a three mission style restaurant in the centre of London, it's the same, not the same food, but the same kind of sense of perfection and aura of quality and all those sorts of things that they look for. So yeah, they're bringing global inspectors as well. How often do they remove one? Or do they not really? No, they do, but it's not very often. It's normally if a chef has moved and it's normally if the restaurant's focus has changed,

sometimes the restaurant will lose one. But they also recognise that it's, I think it's a big thing to remove a star. Yeah. Because if you've gone from two stars to one stars, you're still a very good restaurant But people always see them as a bit shit now and so I think they That's why I think they take giving stars out as a big thing because they want to know that it will be kind of like Quality led forever. It's not just yeah, it's not just they don't follow fashion or fads or just go, yeah, this is the restaurant everyone talks about now. Let's give them a star. They go, actually, is it going to be consistent for a long period of time? And if you get two or three, is that you made in terms of like bookings are just bang, bang,

bang, bang, bang, bang? Or is it as simple as that? No, no, it's not as simple as that. The world has slightly changed. A lot of people like, you know, we mentioned Ed earlier, Ed goes to the knees in loads of cool restaurants, some of them too, some are free Michelin stars, but lots of them are like really cool pizza places that just have amazing sourdough breads that are cooked beautifully or brilliant burgers.

The food scene has changed so much now that you can eat great food that doesn't have to be two or three Michelin stars. So there's so much choice that's available. So it doesn't mean that you become busy or successful, but it is a level of quality that is driven that I suppose people, if they're looking for something really good, it will help build consistency and the strength and the foundation. But it isn't the answer. If your restaurant isn't packed and you're in the shit and it's not, you know,

it's not working, and you've got a mission star, which lots of places will be, they'll have mission stars and not be necessarily busy. Getting two stars doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be any more successful. If you're like your first mission star was when you was a head chef at that other restaurant, not your own one, does that count as yours or theirs almost? Or is it a bit of a gray area? And like, do you need to have your own restaurant and win one to be like, I've got one on my own now? That's kind of the restaurant. Most restaurants, if you think about most restaurants, aren't necessarily owned by the chef. Chef, whether they're in hotels, wherever, they're an employee and no chefs cook that star.

So the restaurant gains the star. So, for example, the restaurant I was in when I left and then moved to open the Hand of Flowers, it had a mission star before the head chef left. I then took over and maintained that star. So the restaurant keeps the star. And it's essentially when I leave, when I left, the new head chef that came in, you know,

wants to keep that Michelin star. So you're there trying to maintain- It's a horrible job to come in, isn't it? That's like David Moyes following Alex Ferguson, isn't it? It's like, oh, fucking hell. Yeah. How did you feel when you got yours, like within 10 months, the hand of flower, how did you know,

oh, they've come in and then you get an invite to think, how excited are you and happy? Oh, mate, it's amazing. I mean, it's just brilliant because we were a pub as well. So we didn't do any of the, there was no tablecloths. You know, we served pints of real ale. It was a case of just trying to make sure that it was a comfy environment.

We wanted to do all the lovely food and all the lovely ingredients, but without the kind of sense of that pomp and that ceremony and that kind of like that hush tablecloth and that, you know, everything where everyone sits there in silence and, you know, everyone's too scared to talk. I wanted to get rid of, I hate all of that. So I got rid of all of that and just thought, well, we'll just cook really nice food and we'll just say nice things to people and try and be professional all around and see what happens.

So when we got it, it was amazing. You know what, I'm so like, honestly, I think National Treasure is spot on from Jarena. We will absolutely love you, Tom. And it's so nice to see someone so talented and be up along those sort of top chefs, but also so humble and normal. Oh, you're very kind. But there is like everything.

There's a lot of people that make it work like you. You've got, you know, producers and people and help people that know you. You misjudged comedy there. Yeah, you may want to pretend to keep everyone on side. I'm very much a fucking low wolf here. Those producers and agent, mate, if anything anything they're holding us back. You've got waiting staff to keep on side. I have a different usher every night mate. One brown fear and he's not giving a shit.

Yeah you've got people just taking 15% of your earnings yeah. Oh they listen to this, they listen to this Tom and I'm gonna tell you now they do fuck all. Oh you're gonna shit yourself with flow rings you know. Don't worry I've got loads of people in my business that do fuck all as well don't worry. Thanks so much mate and I'm looking forward to following Ace's rugby career. I want to ask one last question would you prefer him to represent England at rugby or get three Michelin stars in his own restaurant?

Oh, that's quite a hard one. I think represent England at rugby. I think that would be mega, but I think it's more likely the other ones. It's more likely it will be in the world of food and restaurants, but I think it would be amazing. Can's more likely it'll be in the world of food and restaurants, but I think it would be amazing. Can you imagine what it'd be like to be a pro-parent like that? Seeing one of your kids run out and like twicken him or Wembley or something like that. It would just be mega, wouldn't it? So, thanks so much, mate. Good luck with the Tom Carriage Cooks Britain, the book and the show. We love you, Tom.

And the carrot cake. And the carrot cake. Good luck with the carrot cake. And the carrot cake. Can't wait. Cheers, mate. See you soon.