Rotten Mango - #101: The Chicken Coop Serial Killers (Case of Gordon Northcott)

Episode Date: September 29, 2021

“Ooooh Sanford get out here! I have a present for you - it’s in the bucket!” Sanford didn’t understand why his uncle was so giddy to be back to the chicken farm but he rushed outside. He peered into the bucket for his surprise. Immediately he wanted to gag. Why did his uncle bring home roadkill? Why did it look like the animal had a wig on? “Look closer Sanford.” - Uncle Stew ordered.  And that’s when Sanford realized - this isn’t roadkill. It’s not an animal. It’s the severed head of a young boy not much older than him… Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to this week's main episode of Rotten Mango. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. I'm your relevance. So today we're going to be talking about a case that happened in California. Let me drop you off in the middle of the crime. This takes place in the middle of Los Angeles, Hollywood, where dreams go to die. This is the exact location. We've got a little nine year old boy by the name of Walter Collins that vanishes. Now, Christine, his mom, she starts freaking out because he doesn't come home one day

from being out and playing and she's like, this is weird. This is really unlike Walter. Like, he doesn't come home one day from being out and playing and she's like this is weird. This is really unlike Walter. Like he doesn't do stuff like this. He's a quiet kid. He's reserved. So she immediately heads to the police station and she's like, you gotta help me. By son is missing, I don't know what to do. Now the police are like, wow, Mrs. Collins, not you again. Now here's some pertinent backstory. Mr. Collins, Walter's dad, also named Walter, was a pretty big criminal. So they thought, okay, well, he's in jail right now. What do you want? Do you want us to get him out of jail? Because that's not happening. He was also working with the police as a police informant at the time that Walter Jr. went missing. So, I mean, we're thinking, wow, this

is alarming. That's a lot of people that probably hate the Collins family. They want to get back at Mr. Collins. So maybe they kidnapped his nine-year-old kid. And that's exactly what the police are thinking. They tell her, listen lady, is probably a very angry criminal that took your son, that didn't want your husband to start talking to the police. We think that you will get some sort of letter about a ransom or some directions on how to get your son back. Maybe you'll even get his finger as proof, you know? So they just casually brush the whole thing off.

Call us when you got a letter. Call us when you get some contact from these criminals that have your nine-year-old little boy. So Christine being the fearless mom that she is, she starts going out looking. She's asking people. She's talking to people begging to get information on her nine-year-old boy, Walter.

She finally gets the attention of the national news. And now the entire country is outraged. Where the hell is baby Walter? And why do the police not care? So suddenly, now the entire country is outraged where the hell is baby Walter and why do the police not care? So suddenly now the police are like, okay, we gotta act like we're doing something So they start following these leads all over the country. Yeah, I saw him with a new family I think I saw that little boy standing at the corner of this street wearing just newspaper Like clothing made out of newspapers. I don't know

So they start going down these rabbit holes. It wasn't until five months later there was a break in the case. They found Walter. They found him. But he was all the way in Illinois. On the other side of the country, from California. What is he doing there? So the police they pick him up and they say, hey, little boy, what's your name?

I'm Walter Collins. So they're thinking, well I'll be darned, we did some good work, I mean it's been five months, but we found them. So they tell Christine, hey good news, we found your son. Bad news, you have to pay for him to get to California, so you're not gonna see him unless you have the money. Like cough up the money. Now back then in the 20s transportation was not cheap, so she's thinking it's gonna be be months. So finally she gets her hands on the money, she gives it to the police, they start transporting Walter to California and she stoked, she's gonna be reunited. All

the press, the media, they're excited, that's document the whole thing. The day arrives. Walter hops out of the car and Christine smile just starts slowly fading She turns to one of the police officers I don't I don't think that's my son Well sure he is what no, but his face doesn't even look like my son Well as been a while Christine. He's a growing boy So of course, during the past couple of months, he's going to have grown. His face is going to change. That's what happens

when you grow. You say five months, no? And we'll add a couple extra months because, you know, it took her while to get the money. But that's the thing, officer. He's even shorter than my son. Like, I mean, I get it. Maybe he didn't grow or even he stayed the same where he grew a little,'s he's shorter than my son What are the police do? Listen Mrs. Collins. This is your boy. Why don't you quote unquote try him out for a few weeks If you really don't think it's your son let us know then He's just different because he's been you know alone if not kidnapped for a while months

He was going through it That's a lot for a nine year old boy. So go try them out, test them out at home, you know, let us know So for the next three weeks, she's living with this boy and every day her suspicion is getting worse and worse Why is he so different? Walter is so polite and reserved and this kid is wild. Why does he keep calling me ma? Walter only called me mother She goes back to the police and says, listen, I can't do it anymore, I'm slamming my fists on the table, this isn't my son. You need to go get this boy home, because someone's missing him. And you need to go find my son,

because Walter's still out there. Ma'am, calm down. Let us run some very advanced innovative technological, psychologically supreme, logically destructible tests on the boy to determine if this indeed is your son or not. How long have you been living with him? Three weeks, okay, well let's try this. They drive quote unquote Walter to the edge of town and they say, okay, now find your way home, bye! And he makes it back to Christine's house.

See, now, ma'am, would not your son be able to find your house? When he's not your son, clearly, this is your son. He found your house. If he's really from Illinois and he's not your son, he wouldn't even know this town like that. We'll do one more test. Logically indestructible, you know, it just makes a lot of sense. We're going to put Walter into a room and when we open the door, we're gonna let this dog in.

Walter's dog. And if Walter's dog starts rushing to him, licks his face and jumps on top of him, then that's, uh, that's Walter. Cause, you know, dogs. She's like, what? But she- he's been living with this dog for three weeks because he's living with me for the past three weeks. So the test prove to the police that this indeed is Walter. So they say take your child and leave us alone. Now Christine being more competent, she goes to the dentist's office and has them study

new Walter's teeth and compare them to the dental records of her Walter and they're not a match. So once again, she finds herself at the police station. Listen, here's the results. And they tell her, you think that we don't know what you've been doing all along with your little games, playing your little mind games? You don't want to be a mom since your husband is in jail.

You want us to pay for your child. You want us to take your child on top of that. You hate the police, of course you do. Your husband's a criminal. Now he's forced to work as an informant. You hate us. So you want to make us look like idiots. That's what you're doing. Did your husband put you up to this? I bet he did. And they immediately admit her into a psychiatric ward. They tell everyone this woman right here is crazy. She's bonkers. She's a danger to society and to her child. She's a bad mom. And they spoon feed her a ton of medications that she didn't need.

And she's, what are bizarre, bizarre story. What are, but this gets even more bizarre because this is only just a piece of the puzzle to some serial killers in Los Angeles. Full source notes are available at rottenmanglepodcast.com, but yes, there's a book on it. in Los Angeles. a victim. They were able to provide family documents, photos, letters, notes, personal anecdotes about who his father was, and I think in a case like this where it's a little over a hundred years old, it's really important to get these things because if you look at all these other sources, I mean everything's kind of up in the air with this case. So let's start with a guy by the name of Gordon Stewart Norcott. They called him Uncle Stewart.

We're just going to call him Stu because he's like a bad bowl of stew, a bad soup. He's born in Canada to Mom Louise and to dad George. Now he did have an older sister by the name of Winnie who was 18 years older than he was. That's a big age gap. So much so in fact that there was a big rumor that was going around that allegedly even the mom would later kind of confirm that Winnie and her dad, so Winnie the older sister and her dad were doing some incestuous stuff when he gets pregnant and they believe that Stu is actually Winnie's child allegedly allegedly now the other side of this story is that noneuna Nau, Stu is actually Louise's child, and George's child, like just a non-insensuous, non-rape child, just a regular relationship.

They just decided 18 years later to have another kid, and Louise's mom, she was heartbroken, she didn't want another kid. She was good, she thought that raising kids was over for her. So while she was pregnant with Stu, she started drinking. She started trying to throw herself off of pieces of furniture to not follow to term with this baby. So it's kind of like complex. Whether he is a product of incest and rape,

but either way, he's born. And it's almost like this flip is switched in mother Louise. She went from hating this unborn child, whether it was... This is flipped. Yeah, the switch is flipped. You say flip is switched. Flip is switched. This is the most beautiful thing to do. She babyed the shirts out of him. She said, oh, my precious boy, that was her favorite saying, my precious boy, my precious boy.

Anytime he came home from school, she would take his coat, lick his baby hairs out of his face, fix him up his favorite cup of tea, and just like waded around him, like a Michelin star waiter. Meanwhile, Stu's acting like he hates it. But he also never stopped her from doing everything for him.

It's like he liked it. He liked the comfort of it, you know? The guy was like really enjoying it. She also dressed him up in girls clothes until he was about 16 years old. This is, I think it was her choice that he later adapted. So he loved wearing more quote-unquote feminine clothes

even as he got older. He always wore like really fancy suits as well which honestly powered to him because back in the day I mean he got bullied for it he was bullied incessantly for wearing quote-unquote more feminine clothes and I keep saying quote-unquote more feminine because in like the 1920s more feminine is just a little color in your suit and they're like whoa whoa whoa whoa yeah yeah but I do think that he was wearing full-on dresses yeah so I mean I don't know how much of it was his

choice how much was it was you know pushed on to him by Louise we're not really sure then when he gets to high school here in the new nickname the ape man because he had that much body here people said if you were to look at stew naked, it's like looking at an animal. That's not my words, I've never seen him naked. Listen, people are mean, don't listen to them. I feel a lot of sympathy for him up until this point. So after high school, he decides to pursue his passions.

Now this seems privileged, right? His family at least, he could do whatever he wanted. He didn't necessarily have to go to war. He didn't have to go to work. He starts becoming a classical pianist. At least he could do whatever he wanted. He didn't necessarily have to go to war. He didn't have to go to work. He starts becoming a classical pianist. He loved playing for large crowds. I mean, he kept his hands perfectly manicured, pristine condition, so much so that at home

his mom never let him lift a finger. Because my precious boy's hands, my precious boy's piano fingers. He loved the adrenaline of everyone clapping for him, praising him, and that was his jam. Now it doesn't pay well, but his parents are just bankrolling his entire life. Even bought him a super fancy convertible car. Back then, I mean still today, but back then, those were like the IT cars. Even B and 1 was like a rare occurrence. Like whoa, whoa, whoa, this is like a once in a lifetime thing.

Come on, this is crazy. Now Stu loved giving rides in this car to people that he wanted to get close to. And they were always little boys. Underage boys, eight to 12 year old boys, even when Stu was 18, 19 at the time. And mysteriously out of nowhere, the family packs up their bags.

They move out of Canada to Los Angeles, California, in the United States. Now, it's said that they moved for opportunity. Some say they moved for better work. Allegedly, they moved because Stuart either pissed off the parents of a young boy's, you know, mom and dad, or done something that he might be facing some big consequences for.

So that's kind of up in the air. They skedat a lot of town. They landed Hollywood, and immediately Stuart was like like this is my place. I belong here. I am one with this place. Like he's ready to shine. People are praising him for his unique sense of style. They loved his car. He just felt very LA. He continued his little habit of pssst. You want to get in my car a little boy? I got a little puppy in here. They would get in the car. He'd spend all his time with. Now here's the disclaimer. Stew is gay, right? But that's not a problem at all. The problem is that he's a pedophile. And pedophile is coming

all shapes and sizes. So that's this little disclaimer. Now he starts getting really comfortable. So he starts making a best friend in LA. Now this best friend, he's the same age as Stu. They start hanging out, going to all these jazz clubs. But he gets more interested. Stu gets more interested in this Now this best friend, he's the same age as Stu. They start hanging out, going to all these jazz clubs, but he gets more interested, Stu gets more interested in this best friend's underage brother Philip. He uses his friend to constantly be around him, and then eventually starts sexually assaulting Philip multiple times a week. How old was Philip? I think he was like 10. How old was Philip? I think he was like 10.

Wow. Now, Philip was confused. He was terrified. He didn't tell his parents. And I think even now, that's like the scariest thing is that children get confused. They don't know what's going on. But back then, it was even less talked about. And back then, I mean, the norm is like, hey, you got to be nice to strangers.

Like, you got to be polite. Because that shows how, you know, well-classed and well-mannered this family is now It's like you yell at strangers poke them in the eyeballs and jab them in the right, you know tit It's really intense now, which I love so Philip is he's just like I don't know what to do I think that this is normal. Stu is telling me it's normal But it seems like the parents I mean they kind of start catching on to something. Hey, this is weird They keep an eye out and eventually eventually, finally, little Philip tells them what he had been through.

And they call the police. They have stew arrested, but for whatever reason, the charges were dropped. Whether stew scared Philip out of pressing charges, or maybe he even scared the parents, because even today, there's so much shame around rape and homosexuality, which is bizarre, but back then it was it was a lot more. It was so intense. So Stu walks out of this whole ordeal with a clean criminal record. But his friends are like, wait a minute. You're kind of nasty. You're kind of disgusting. You raped a little boy. They stopped being his friend and now Stu is dejected. He's like, what do I do? I can't even get hired to play the piano at these places

because nobody wants to get in my car. Nobody wants me to perform on their stage. I mean, I am depressed. I feel like everything in my life is getting a little bit more innovative, is getting a little bit more up to the times. And the one thing that has always let me down since I became a full-fledged somewhat adult is traditional banking.

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onto the things that Philip had given him. I mean, it's weird. You are a rapist. Not a broken-up boyfriend. None of this is making sense. So, Stu sits his parents down. Who, by the way, know all of this. They know all of his sick little interests and little boys.

And his arrests, they know about everything. And he tells them, hey, I need a good chunk of your life savings. I'm gonna open up a business. What? What kind of business? A chicken farm. I'm going to sell eggs at the farmer's market. So I found a three acre plot of land in wineville, California.

There is literally not even a house on there. It's just desert. We're going to build a little house. We're going to build a bunch of separate detached chicken coops and start making money But I've been by the boom like super easy. Let's do it Mom's like wow son you really are a smart one, okay? So even after all of that they buy him a nice plot of land and they start having to get to building Now they don't want to spend even more money on workers

So they call up Winnie. Stoos older sister, allegedly his mom, and says, hey, Winnie, you got two sons. Why don't we have that work on the farm? I'm going to enroll them in school in America because, you know, the education's better here. It'll be better for them. They can work on the farm on the weekends, and it'll teach them to be real men. They're going to have a United States education, and who knows, Winnie? One day, I'll pass the farm down on to them when I'm over it. By the way, she was like only 20. Now, Winnie is all for this idea, but she had a favorite son, Young Kenneth. Her favorite, the idea of letting Young Kenneth out of her sight made her nervous.

Now it's that that Winnie was very similar to her own mom, Louise. So you know how Louise babyed the crap out of stew? It's that that Winnie was doing that with Kenneth. Like they just had very similar personalities. So Winnie's like, you know what? Not Kenneth. What if he just takes Stanford? My other boy.

He needs to be taught some discipline anyway. So Stu's like perfect. I'm gonna go to Canada, bring him back down into the United States. So Stu comes up to pick up Sanford from Winnie's house and Sanford already knew that it was gonna be bad. He's 13 years old. Now Winnie, his mom and her brother, Stu,

this is his uncle, uncle Stu, are the duo from hell. They have the same personality. They all are the same personality as Sanford's grandma Which is just lying through their teeth crazy temper the only time that they get emotional is if it's something bad happening to them They don't care about anyone else They love to bully you until your self-esteem is next to nothing like these are the types of people that he's dealing with So of course he's like wow, I'm gonna leave my mom who at least loves me a little bit.

To uncle STU of all people? I mean, this is the worst timing of it all. And he's mad at his mom, like what kind of person just like offers up there 13-year-old kid to farm work? I don't get it. I'm 13. I got all my friends here. Why should I go? And when he turns around just disgusted at him. You don't know what hard work is. You're a spoiled little bastard, you don't know what hard work is. You're a spoiled little bastard. You don't know what real struggle is.

You need to go learn what every boy needs to learn. So he's forced into the car with Stu with the majority of his belongings. So he's like, okay, I don't know when I'm going to come back. Okay, I don't know. And when he finally makes it to the border, Stu put on this whole show because they don't have a visa. So Stu is like, a family member is dying. And when he finally makes it to the border, Stu put on this whole show. Because they don't have a visa. So Stu is like, a family member is dying.

Literally as I speak, dying dead in the hospital bed. This little boy right here, 13 year old Sanford, he's got a pay his respect. Isn't that right, Sanford? Right. Dying, I tell you. So the border officers like, okay, go. They let them in from Canada to the United States and Technically even though the officers let them in Sanford is there illegally He doesn't have papers

The car ride itself showed Sanford enough about his future He was like this I already know where this is going. It's not gonna be easy breezy at the chicken ranch the chicken coop I mean stew would go through these phases during the car ride where he would go from super excited, frantic almost, just ready to do this, ready to do that, all of these ideas, and then slowly, he would just get irritable, miserable for a few hours, and then switch back to completely frantic and excited. They would drive with the top down and is convertible, and Stu would love to talk real low, real quiet, while the wind is just gushing at their ears. And if Sanford doesn't hear him because of the wind,

he would get pfft on the back of that. And just the way he talked, Stu, with despicable. I mean, he talked about how money creates horrors and all women are horrors. So that's, that's great. Before they get to the ranch, they stop at the Grandparents' house. Now, these are the literal parents of Winnie,

which means these are Sanford's literal grandparents. This is kind of important. And they treat him like absolute garbage. Luis, the grandma, she loved slapping her grandson from cheek to cheek as hard as she could. Not like the cute, like, oh, my little baby. But like, why would you bring this clumsy open to my house and then just literally slap him with all of her strength

straight on the cheek until he was red and stinging with pain. She gave San for the whole speech. You were here because Stu needs this place up and running. Now you listen to me you're gonna do all the dirtiest work because I want Stuart's hands free of calluses for playing the piano. We will deliver a piano to the farm so we can practice and every time I go to the farm I'm gonna check Stewart's hands. If I find one callus it'll be you that pays. What in the world is this? This is our grandson. I thought grandparents love the grandchild more than their actual child. You know but she's like no my baby my baby, my precious boy.

So the ranch is in the desert part of Los Angeles, not the beautiful greens that you might imagine, but a lot more sand. I mean, they had a 3-acre plot of land, which is big, but it's not like picked and farmed big. This is kind of important. They had a well with a pump, but pretty much nothing else. They had to build a house, chicken coops, everything from scratch. In the meantime, they're living in a tent.

Working as quickly as possible, grandpa, George, and Sanford, they build a two bedroom box, you know, with a living room, a kitchen. No, one of the bedrooms is not for Sanford. Either the couch or the chicken coop is typically where Sanford sleeps with the chickens sometimes. I mean, it's really bad.

They build a bunch of individual chicken coops, little sheds for the chickens. They would make about two chicken coops a day. So I mean, they're working really fast. Started filling it with chickens so that they can make money selling the eggs. Stay chicken one more time. And since the day that he got there, the conditions were already tough. He was forced to work 12 hour days, doing all of the heavy lifting. If Stu hated the way that he talked, walked, smiled, or anything that Sanford really couldn't control, he would just get punched to the ground, punched until he was knocked

unconscious. It got to the point where Sanford knew how to pretend to be unconscious. He was like, okay, anytime this guy punches me, I'm gonna get on the ground and kind of convulse a little bit. Because Stu really didn't care for damage. He really cared about seeing the victim shake in pain With someone like stew Sanford said he knew quickly that personal dignity was something that you can't afford The idea is you let them hurt you a little bit so that they leave you alone after Sanford would cook three meals a day stew would sit down eat and then he would feed the leftover scraps. Sanford would cook three meals a day, stew would sit down, eat, and then he would feed the leftover scraps to Sanford. No, this is a growing boy.

He's 13 years old, so he actually stopped growing. He was malnourished, he was pale, underweight, he started losing his hair, like losing his teeth. I mean, the kid was not doing okay. He wasn't getting enough sleep, he was working 12 plus hours a day, he wasn't eating enough, it was clear that nothing that Stu had promised would be happening. Stu would never enroll him in school, are you kidding? Because he needed to be on the farms, tending to the chickens.

He had to slaughter all of the chickens himself, he's 13! Does the mother know any of this? If you, according to the book it seems like yes. Wow. Sanford was beat every single day. Every single day, either head on the head, sucker punched, punched till he lost consciousness, kicked, you know, burned, like just truly beat.

And he would always drag him into the chicken coops. I feel like this is an extra level of just humiliation. He would just drag him where the chicken poop is, and just beat him up until he was on the ground. And then within a few weeks the sexual assault started. Stu would satimize him with his own body, but also with foreign objects. There were rusty farm equipment that he would use, wooden planks that had splinters. It would later show that Sanford had permanent damage to his rectum due to these frequent abuses. It happened practically every night.

And while Stu was raping Sanford, he would say, hit me. He wanted Sanford to hit him, but if Sanford refused, he'd be beat because how dare you say no to me. But if Sanford hit Uncle Stu, Uncle Stu would slowly get mad. He'd say, hit me again. But you could just see that his anger is boiling and boiling and boiling. With Sanford hit Uncle Stu, Uncle Stu would slowly get mad. He'd say, hit me again. But you could just see that his anger is boiling and boiling and boiling. And then, Sanford at the end, he would get beat.

There really was no winning. I mean, it's very clear that Stu is like this sexual sadist. He loved inflicting torture on his victims just a really nasty, nasty person. After every single assault, he'd whisper into stews here. Better the devil you know. Which means it's better to deal with the devil that you know, because you don't know what's out there. You'd say besides, you were smuggled over the border, which means if they find out that

you're not an American citizen, you're going to get the death penalty. They do things differently in the States. Now, this is not true, but how would Sanford know? He'd also tell them, and if you don't get the death penalty, or maybe you're waiting for the death penalty, in prison, they're gonna take turns on you. Sometimes a hundred out of time these prisoners, it will take hours. And he would whisper to him, you will be their dream girl, Sanford. And then to dehumanize more, after most of these assaults, Stuart Force him to sleep naked in the dirty chicken coop

floors, like just with the chicken poop, with the dead chickens, chicken blood everywhere, Sanford's own blood everywhere. And then he'd sit him down. Let's write a letter to your family. I went something like this. Dear family, everything Uncle Stuart said that he would do. He has done for me.

I am healthy and working hard whenever I am not in school. My school teacher, Mrs. Haberdashar says Uncle Stewart is doing a good job of teaching me everything I need to know about the farm, and she should know. Her whole family is from a long line of farmers in the area. They have made several fortunes and citrus crops and cows. Anyway, I hope you are fine. I am well. Yours, Sanford. online of farmers in the area, they have made several fortunes and citrus crops and cows. Anyway, I hope you are fine. I am well. Yours, Sanford. The only people that noticed something was weird was his dad and Jesse, his older sister.

They were suspicious because this is, I mean yes, this is his handwriting, it's very clear, but it seems like more of a sponsor dad for Uncle Stu. That they never really liked. Nobody in the family except for the sister, you know, Winnie, the mom, really liked the guy, which doesn't make sense. And the school teacher is not putting any work into his handwriting. It's no better than last year.

Which sounds weird, you know, but then like when you're 13, I think every year makes a difference in the way that you write. And his words, I mean, the way he makes sentences. Have you ever heard him talk like that? Everything Uncle Stewart said he would do. He has done for me. I mean, maybe schooling is different in the United States, but it just doesn't sound natural. So they've got this like little suspicion, but what can they do?

They don't have a phone number for the chicken ranch. The chicken ranch doesn't even have a phone. They're just like, okay, we can just try to write letters back, but every time they would get a response, it was very PR. Very yeah, Uncle Stu is doing all these amazing things from me. Love it here. Anyway, bye. So one night after Sanford's routine assault and beating, because this was happening practically every day, he was left lying barely unconscious on the floor of the poop infested chicken coop. When he realizes the lock that is normally on the chicken coop that is locked so that he can't get out is gone.

Thank you for a god. He can walk out of there. Off the property. I mean it's a three acre lot. Like I said, it's not a picked and style ranch. I mean, he can literally run off the property soon. So he's saying, okay, I can do this. He gets up, he starts seeing stars

because he has been that tortured, that beat, that day, but he has to keep going. He manages to sneak out of the coop and off the edge of the property. He said that he had this mixture that he wanted to scream laugh, but at the same time scream with just terror, pure terror. He didn't know which one was better.

And he starts running. He doesn't know how long he ran, maybe a minute, maybe two, maybe five. But he saw nothing. Just nowhere to escape. Just miles of cactus and weeds. Even if he made it to the police without dying, this is what he was thinking at the time. Eventually, they'll find out the truth about what Uncle Stu has done with me. They would never believe it was against my will.

Even though I was a, you know, growing boy, nobody would ever look at him the same. He would never be accepted by his family, especially his favorite, his older sister, Jesse. That's when you realize there's no going back to my old life. Not anymore. That's how he felt. And he kept asking himself, what would they think of you once they know? And he's talking about the rape.

And he's saying, once they know, why would they even help me? Once they know, like, why would they even care about a creature like me at all? Like, this is how much shame and just like really backwards thinking it was back in the day. And he kept thinking of the words, better the devil you know. So he says, okay, I can't do this.

Decides to walk back in willingly to the farm. Well, not willingly, you know, he has been so far so tortured that I'm sure it's not willingly at all. He's like, I have no other choice. Lay is on the sofa to sleep, but he gets woken up by a pot of boiling water poured all over his body. No. And his own scream woke him up and he thought it was someone else.

He was like, who's screaming? And he didn't even realize it was him. Now, Stu was pissed. Somehow, he knew that he tried to escape. Like, I don't know if maybe he was awake, maybe he saw the whole thing, maybe he did this all as some big test, maybe he left it on locked on purpose. Either way, Sanford's skin is blistering. It's practically raw at this point, and he forces Sanford into the chicken coop, dig a hole in the ground, essentially a grave. When it was big enough for Sanford, Stu pushes him in, closes the opening by placing these like giant wooden planks on top, and then holds it down with these massive rocks, and just left in there for days.

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And you guys know, holidays for small businesses, that's prime time. So just go to shipstation.com, click the microphone at the top and enter in code Rotten. Shipstation. Make ship happen. And so he has to learn not how to not panic because he might run out of air. He said he started feeling like he was drowning. Every time he would start panicking, he feels like he's drowning because his lungs aren't getting enough oxygen. I mean, it's pitch black, there's dust all over the place.

It feels like a coffin. The only thing that kept in calm was that uncle Stu needed him to be alive. Because uncle Stu is not going to do any of the work. He's lazy. He wouldn't even understand hard work if it slapped him in the face. He didn't even know like when the chickens get hungry, they pick at you harder. They scream at you. They scream at you so loud that you want to rip off your own ears. So once Sanford, quote unquote, learned his lesson, he was released from his little coffin. And because of this, later when Stu would go on these trips, sometimes to visit his parents or just whatever he was doing, sometimes he'd be gone for over a week at a time. Stanford would be completely alone on the farm. He would never run away. I think this really just shows how abused this poor child was. Like truly, I don't think you need

chains to be considered captive. At all. Yeah. So also side note, on his burns, Uncle Stu would slather Vaseline, which is one of the worst things you could put on burns, especially if it's fresh because it traps the heat. So like later, maybe you're doing it for your scarring, but not immediately when it's just like raw skin. So at this point, Sanford is like now 14, 15 years old and Stu's thinking, well, he's not really my type anymore because his type are boys that are 8 to 12 years old. So he goes on the hunt.

He starts scouting local parts to find these little kids separated from their parents, but thankfully he seemed to freak them out a lot because he would say, hey, you want to come see a puppy in my car? They don't get so excited. And on the way to the car, he would say, Hey, can I tickle you? And that's when the kids were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is weird.

I should probably get back to my parents. He would always try to lure them in. Oh, I got little rapids in the car. I got a pony at my house. You want to ride a pony? He was even chased with one of the parents that was holding a knife. That was like, get away from my son.

But he apparently didn't care and it seemed like the police didn't care because he didn't stop He still kept looking he would disappear for days at a time sometimes a week And then he would always come back relaxed and happy. That's what Sanford said He would leave just anxious Anoint like he had this like energy. He needed to get out then he would come back Like he just got back from vacation So I mean we can only imagine what he's doing out there And I think that's why there's a lot of speculation that there were far more victims than the ones found on the farm later

Now one day Stu comes home from one of these big trips ecstatic Oh I have a present for you Come over here. I have a present for you. Come over here! I have a present. So Sanford's brushing over. So he's like, I can't get beat up.

Like, I gotta go ASAP. Looks out. And Stu's holding out a silver bucket. We'll go on. Take a look! So he takes a quick peek. And immediately he starts screaming a little. Oh!

It looks like a, like a dead animal. With like really long hair or something. Almost like a dead animal with like really long hair or something. Almost like a dead animal with a with a wig on. What does that road kill and he's like gagging because it was bloody. It will take a closer look. So he does and he realizes it's not road kill and it's not a wig. It's a true scalp on a bloody mass. It was a severed head inside the bucket. It was just a head? Just the head. The rest of the body was in the trunk. To make matters worse, it was the severed head of a boy that didn't look at my shoulder than Sanford.

Maybe like a year older? Oh my god. You do this like laughing, isn't that great? Do you want to hear what happened? Well, he shot him. Of course, it was self-defense. He was trying to steal from me. I thought, I thought he was going to kill me.

So I killed him first. I smashed up his hands too, because I read in one of those detective novels, that that's how the police are going to ID the body. You have to take the head off too. It's going to make it so much harder. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to take this head, start a bonfire, and burn it till it's all ash and little bones.

Then, the whole time for hours, you're going to stoke the flames, okay, because we can't let it go out. Then, once you're done with that, you're going to smash up the ashes with a hammer. And we're just going to scatter them. Maybe we'll let the chickens eat it. We'll see. Now, Sanford's gagging.

He was like throwing up. He has a conscious. He's like, I can't do this, but his dad is, or his uncle's like, you better. You better, it'll be your head. So they end up, you know, doing exactly what I said with the head. They throw the rest of the headless body into a ditch. Now, the worst part is, stew's plan worked.

The body was found, but it was never identified even to this day. So the only part is, stew's plan worked. The body was found but it was never identified even to this day. So the only thing that they could really pin down on the body was that this was a young boy that was probably Mexican. So the news and the police, they called him this young boy that was murdered, the headless Mexican. Wow. Which is just fucked up, okay? Like, are you kidding me? Now, the speculation is that Stu did not do this in self-defense, okay? The speculation is that he tried to kidnap this young boy,

but because he was much older, and probably quicker and stronger than what Stu's used to, because by the way, Stu is like, what, 20 years old. He wears suits. He's got manicured hands all the time. Like, you really think that this guy is just buffed? Like, you think he's really running a farm? the time. Like you really think that this guy is just buffed. Like you think he's really running a farm?

No. So this kid is fighting back and Stu feels like, oh shoot. I gotta kill him or else he's gonna tell someone. So he shoots him multiple times. Or maybe it was just anger. Maybe it was like, how dare this guy try not to be kidnapped. Now Stu keeps telling Sanford, now that we got rid of the body, we need an alibi. This is the most important part of the crime. And he's like teaching him all

these things about how to evade the police. He starts referencing Hollywood movies, but also, you know, detective novels. We got to go to Grandparents' house. So they get there, and that's when they decide to tell both of them everything that happened. Now Stu took the liberty to lie when he saw fit which was practically the whole time. So the story that they told the grandparents was something like this, okay? And George, George is the grandpa. He was the only one that was confused. Wait, okay. So you're telling me Stu, that you felt like he was going to kill you, this little boy, and so you shot him.

Yes, Dad, I shot him right in the head. I saw that he was alive still. So I shot him four more times in the head with my pistol. So you shot this young boy five times in the head. Yes, but he kept moving. After five shots close, ranged to the head with a pistol? Yes, precisely. So I had to put him out of his misery. I put my pistol down. I grabbed my rifle and I shot him in the chest. And then Sanford, tell him what you did.

Uh, what did I do? So Sanford picks up the axe and hits him the head three times. Go ahead Sanford, tell Grandpa what you did. Yeah, I guess I wanted to put him out of his misery. And grandpa's like, so you're saying, after being shut in the head five times, close range, biopistol, a rifle to the chest, this guy was still alive? Well, he was a strong boy. So we shot him four more times, to the head again. So you hit him with an axe, you shut him like 10 times, close range, and then you had

to decapitate him? Yeah, well, and this is what Stu allegedly said, that it's weird, but Mexicans are really the superior race I tell you, like implying that they had to keep doing this because he was strong, because he was Mexican, I don't even know what to say to that, okay? Like, this is just the type of, the type of dude that we're dealing with. Now, grandpa George, he's shocked at the whole story. I mean, it's absurd. Like, imagine hearing this story and be like, you know what? I totally believe it.

Grandma, on the other hand, she's freaking out. My precious boy, how scary that must've been! I am so glad that filthy little thief didn't hurt you! Didn't hurt a hair on the top of your head! Nothing happens at that point. I mean, the grandparents don't try to do an intervention. They don't try to get to the bottom of it. They just let them go back home.

They formed a salabye and the body of that little boy was found. They never identified him. They never found the head So I mean they're off the hook. They're living their best lives. That's when Walter Collins the nine year old disappears He lives nearby. Yes. Now, it's also said that um Stu had briefly worked at like a grocery store where Walter Collins's mom used to shop at So the whole Walter Collins situation happens. Nobody is even suspecting you because the police are so busy running these

incredibly psychologically innovative advanced tests on the new Walter. So did, yes. Do everyone anyone know what happened to this new kid? The fake water. Oh yeah, yeah, they find out. I'm about to tell you. Oh, okay.

Yeah, so the police chief, they're like, yeah, that woman is bonkers. I'm about to tell you. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. So the police chief, they're like, yeah, that woman is bonkers. That's why you put her in the psychiatric ward. There's actually a movie made on it with Angelina Jolie playing Christine, the mom. And this whole thing is going to come full circle at the end. So just hold on to your tits, right? You look there, didn't you talk about a story very similar? Yes.

There are so many. There was one with a Bobby Dunbar. There was, I I believe another one too Yeah, so the song was missing and hit another one pretend to be the song. Yeah What the heck I don't even what is going on with the world Okay Do you think that still happens today or you think this is definitely before the times of DNA probably before the times of Like now, how could you do that?

Exactly. But also, I mean, how do you think that moms are not going to realize? Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Like, I did not know how bad it was until my sister had a kid. I mean, she realizes every little thing that's so feet.

Like, if I put on a different, the same brand of onesie, but I change it for her because she was at our house we were babysitting she'll know. Oh really? Should be like, yeah did she throw up or something? I'm like what the heck? How are you this good? It's so weird. I feel like if you throw a baby Sophie into a baby room. You could never lose. I would lost her in two seconds. Yeah. Which, it's funny because it's like, there's no Asian babies in the room. Sophie's the only Asian baby and you're like,

I still can't find her. I can't find her. I don't know. I don't see it. I don't see it. So when they finally put her into the psychiatric ward, they've got this little boy now. They're like, what do we do with this little boy?

We got to put him in foster care or something. And not so many starts talking to the police. Hey, by the way, like I don't know if this is gonna cause some trouble or something, I'm not Walter Collins. They're like, what? I am Arthur Hutchins. What?

I'm also 12 years old, not nine. Well, my mom had recently died. I'm from Iowa, and I was sent to live with my dad and my stepmom, but I think that they're evil. I didn't really wanna live with them. Now this story is really sad too, because like imagine how difficult it was for this child, right?

And he decided to run away from his dad and his stepmom, and he ends up in Illinois. Where he's trying to look for work, and this guy's stop set. Oh my God, are you Walter? They're looking for you, because he was on the national news at this point. And the stranger just...

And he's like, who's Walter? Oh, he said, oh, you're not... Oh, sorry, sorry. It's this missing little boy from California. His mom is just heartbroken. They're looking for Walter. Anyway, have a good day, little kid. And he walks away. Just a overly nice dude. Yeah, so the North is like, that's strange.

What the heck? Then he gets stopped by another person. He's like, are you Walter? He's like, I'm not. And they're like, that's crazy. I mean, I swear you look just like him. So Arthur tells the police he didn't really want to get a job. He didn't want to be with his stepmom and his dad.

He thought that he could just start fresh as Walter Collins with Walter Collins' mom in California. I mean, this poor kid, like imagine the rough conditions he must have been in to think that this was a good idea, just completely starting over, pretending to be somebody else. So once this got out, Christine was released from the hospital, but the real Walter was never found. Now technically, legally speaking, Walter Collins was not a confirmed victim of Stu or the chicken ranch, but according to Sandford's side of the story, he was, and I think most people believe that he was. Later there is a confession, but legally speaking, this

is just Sandford's point of view. So Stu had pulled up and Sandford could already hear that he was with this little boy. So he said, oh shoot. Little boy's like, where are the rabbits? Yeah, yeah, we have some rabbits. You're gonna see them later. Wait, is this the rant you were talking about? Because where are the ponies? And it's that that Walter started freaking out.

Because he started realizing something's off. Like he promised to take me to this ranch with a lot of like grass and trees and we're gonna ride ponies and like pet the pet rabbits together but all I see are just sand and chicken coops and it's stinky here and it's miserable. So uncle stew gets down to Walter's left length and says it's time to tell you the truth. Your mom hates you. She hates your guts. She's sick of you. Doesn't want you around anymore. And throws him into one of the chicken coups and all night long.

Sanford could hear the little boy screams. He said he felt like a million pounds heavier. There was nothing that he could do to help. He just hoped that Stu would just let him go soon. For the next little while, Sanford started getting more confused because he's like, every time that I hear Walter in pain,

I'm in pain knowing that this little boy is in pain, but at the same time, I'm not physically in pain. So it's like a little bit of a relief. Stu isn't torturing me. So I kinda, I feel miserable when I hear him, but at the same time I'm like,

oh well, thank God it's not me. So he starts feeling so guilty. I mean, he's only like 14. He's so guilty. Doesn't even know what to do. He briefly sees Walter a few times or what used to be Walter, because now he just had flesh exposed everywhere.

Deep bruises. His eyes were two times greater than usual and he was constantly darting his eyes back and forth. So Sanford said, either he felt like he was blinded, had lost his vision, or because of maybe brain trauma he was having so much trouble focusing his eyes. Couldn't even see where Sanford was when he came into the room. It's said that Walter told Sanford, can you please tell Stu that I'm sorry? Maybe he'll stop if he knows I'm sorry.

Can you tell him I don't even care he'll stop if he knows I'm sorry. Can you tell him I don't even care about the ponies anymore? I'll just do whatever he wants if he just lets me go back home. And he even said, are you mad at me too? And Sanford said no, I'm not. We've got a very different kind of sponsor for this episode, the Jordan Harbinger Show, a podcast that you need to check out right now immediately once you're done with this one, because it is one of those that you're like, wow, I am so glad that I found this.

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you listen to your podcasts. So one day Grandma makes a surprise visit. I mean, it's weird because it seems like Grandma Louise has an understanding of what's going on with Stu. Like Stu is not a regular, you know, regular, shmagular dude. Like he's a pedophile. Like she seems like she's catching on to that. But I don't know to what extent. Or I don't know if she thought, oh, his pet affiliate days are over now. Because she makes a surprise visit and stew is in the chicken coop with Walter.

And Sanford starts freaking out. He doesn't know what to tell them because if he tells them what's going on, I mean, he's screwed. Stew's gonna kill him. So he thinks, I'm just gonna kind of lead her to the chicken coop. Because she's like, where's Stu? Uh, in the chicken coop. Then hopefully she'll walk in on him, doing whatever he was doing to Walter, and stop this madness. So grandma walks in, sees that Stu.

Her baby boy is holding a little boy captive and she starts yelling. How dare you? What are you thinking? I thought you were over this, not here. You said you know his mom, how dare you? And it seems like she's a bit more pissed because her life savings is on the branch versus, there's a little boy being tortured by your own son. Like imagine the feelings most moms would go through.

Like it would just be, I mean, you gotta turn them in, but at the same time, how did you raise someone like this? You start blaming yourself, right? She's just pissed. Like this is her business. Yeah, we put our money on the line and you're just forking it up And he immediately starts crying. No mommy. It's not like that I just snapped by the time that I came to it and I realized what I was doing

He was already chained up in here and I don't know how it happened. I think it's all the stress of the branch Mommy, please don't be mad at at me I promise I'll bring him back and I promise I'll make sure that he doesn't tell his mom anything and that is when grandma Louise changes her tune you will do no such thing get the axe no way this was uh told by Sanford and grandma Louise would actually confess to the murder of Walter Collins. Wow. The quietest way is with an axe. Each one of us is to take turns so that none of us talk.

Do you hear me, Sanford? They walk into the chicken coop. Thankfully, Walter was asleep. Grandma Louise brings the axe up and slams it onto his head three times. Then hands it to Sanford without crying nothing like just passing the salt at the dinner table is the vibe. We'll go on and you refuse this so Stu grabs the axe from his mom and throws it at Sanford's arm till he has this gaping wound. It says we will kill

you unless you do this. And he kept telling himself it's okay, Sanford. Walter's already gone. So he hits him with the axe and then Stu takes over and starts going to town. Afterwards grandma and Stu, they just prance back to normal. They walk into the house they're like, which we have for dinner? They forced Sanford to stay out there and dig a grave in Berry Walter. Now before Grandma Louise leaves, she has to promise you're not gonna try this again, okay? At least not here. And you promise is on his soul. But sure enough a few months later, he finds the Winslow Brothers. 12-year-old Lewis Winslow, 10-year-old Nelson Winslow.

Now they were brothers that were hanging out at a local yacht club where their parents were members. So these are some rich kids' kids. Or rich people's kids. Oh, right. Yeah. Oh my god. I don't even know what you do at a yacht club. Do you just like bounce around from each other's yachts?

So like they do a measuring tape to see whose yacht is longer? And that means their pee-wee is smaller. The longer the yacht, the shorter the wee-wee, okay? That's the new logic here. Now, they get lured by this nice friendly man. He was like, hey, do you want to write a pony? I've got so many ponies.

Now, it's not that this, you know, these brothers, they were really trusting and adventurous. Like, they loved having fun. They loved just being happy. And like, they're like the little kids, the life of the party. And like I said at the time, being polite to strangers was the norm. Versus now, where you start screaming at them, like back then, it was like, no, if you're from a classy family, you have to have manners even to strange men who approach you.

So their parents immediately start freaking out when they don't come home. family, you have to have manners even to strange men who approach you. So their parents immediately start freaking out when they don't come home. And the police are on the lookout. Before they could make any progress though, they get a letter in the mail. Dear mother and dad, we are going to Mexico to make a lot of money making yachts and airplanes. A woman gave us something to eat. Don't worry, we'll be okay. Bizarre!

What? They're young! Why are they going to Mexico? They don't need the money, they never expressed wanting to work in like, why Mexico? And who's this lady who's feeding them? Then they get another piece of mail. We're actually doing this because we thought

it would gardener us fame and attention. Don't look for us. It was just bizarre. But the police, they were like, ah, see, it's perfect. We don't need to look for them. They're in Mexico. But the police, they were like, ah, see, it's perfect. We don't need to look for them. They're in Mexico, building airplanes. And they want to be famous, so we're good.

Job is done. Now, Stu killed the two brothers. Now, the worst part of all of this is that Stu told Sanford, I'm going to let them go. And I will let them go if they come up with a story that they're going to stick to story that they're gonna stick to, that they're gonna tell their parents. So Sanford is so excited because he has been slowly

trying to root for their release, you know, for weeks now. Get their hopes up, get Sanford's hopes up, Sanford's telling the oldest one, hey, you gotta stay to the story, okay? He's gonna let you go. Just tell him exactly what story you're gonna tell your parents. But then when he's called into the chicken coop, Stu forces Sanford to watch while he hits

some of the axes. And Sanford's forced to dig a hole for them, but he knew that they weren't dead yet. Because they were making noise. I mean, they were moaning. And he said, like, that moan, he will never forget. And as he's digging, Stu looks at him and says, yeah, if you keep crying, I'm gonna make you sleep in there. On top of the dead boy's graves. So keep digging. So he puts him in the graves, still alive, and they get buried alive.

At this point, Jesse Clark, Sanford's older sister in Canada. She decides it's finally pay her brother a visit. OK, she had saved a ball of her money. I mean, back then, like I said, travel is so expensive. She knew deep down that something was wrong, even her dad knew. And the dad just refused to stand up to his wife, their mother, Winnie. Like I said, she had the very similar personality to Stu and grandma Louise.

Like, everybody else just kind of fell into the background. They ran the whole town. Like, else just kind of fell into the background. They ran the whole town like that's the vibe they're giving. So she decides to make a surprise trip to California, not let stew know much in advance that she's coming. Because a lot of odd things were just, I mean none of this was making sense. And when she gets to the ranch initially everything sunshine and rainbows. I mean it's beautiful. Uncle stew cooks for them every day, he takes some sightseeing, they go through Hollywood, tells her little stories here and there, but slowly, the cracks start showing. Why wouldn't Stuart let them in the room alone for even two seconds?

Uncle Stuart was always hovering over them, why was her brother refusing to make eye contact with her? Why did her brother never talk about school or any of the things that he talked about in the letters? Why does he look so sick? And she wanted to visit his school to like meet the teachers to see what the United States schools are like, and they just come up with these excuses. So one night while Uncle Stu is asleep,

she wakes up, sneaks Stanford out of the house, and they start whispering. And Stanford tells her everything minus the sexual assaults. He's killing little boys. He had me help him. I killed a little boy because of him. We buried them right in the chicken coop.

He's going to kill me eventually. I know it. When I become a liability, because that's what uncles do. I always talked about assets and liabilities. When I become a liability, he's going to kill me. And you can't help me, Jesse, because he's going to kill you too. And Jesse's shocked. She's like trying to absorb all this information.

She's like, what are you talking about? No, no matter what happens, I'm going to get you the fork out of here. We're going to escape. We're going to go back to Canada. It's going to be amazing, okay? I have some cash saved up. I'll find you a job. You can go back.

You don't even have to live with mom. I moved out. You can live with me. So they come up with this whole little plan. I'll find you a job, you can go back, you don't even have to live with mom, I moved out, you can live with me. So they come up with this whole little plan, but the only way it works is if she snakes him cash, she has to go back to Canada first. Act like nothing's wrong,

then when Uncle Stu goes on one of his little weekend bingers, whatever you call it, benders, he's gonna sneak out with the money, get driven across the border. Jesse already had people lined up to drive him across the border. It's going to be perfect. But when Jesse gets back to Canada, she can't resist waiting. She's like, I can't do this. So she calls the Canadian police to contact the United States because there was an illegal immigrant in the US that was smuggled in for work. It's also said that

Stuart actually tried to kill Jesse while she was in California. She had punched her in the face at the grandparents house. Because she kept demanding that she take Sanford. She was like, I'm going to just take him. It's been so long. I'm going to live with him now. I have my own place. Why can't I take him?

He's my brother. You can't tell me what to do with my brother. So, just do punches are in the face. And grandma Louise kept telling him, not this one, not this one Stewart. You can't do anything to this one. You want to keep your freedom, don't you? So it seems I don't know if maybe Jesse was special to Winnie or to someone or they thought

that maybe he would be caught, he would be arrested if something happened to her. Everyone knew she was in California. She's saying not this one. Not this one. Not because this was her grandchild. Because, I mean, this one is her grandchild. Not this one. You want to keep your freedom, don't you? Now, Sanford had no plans to use his sister's money to leave, because he felt like she would

never forgive him for all of the things that he did on the farm, but she could forgive him for all of the things that he did on the farm, but she could forgive him for not escaping. And on top of that, he just felt like no one in his family would love him after they found out that he had been sodomized. But Uncle Stu was freaking out, because Grandma Louise kept telling him, I don't care what that girl Jessie said to you because the look in her eyes, she knows something, or at least she thinks she knows something, and she's not the type of girl that's just going to let that go. She's vindictive. She's like a bad dog with a good memory. We have to do something. We have to come up with a backup plan. We

got to pack our stuff. We got a plan to go to Canada away from the ranch. So around the same time the LAPD get a tip that there's an illegal worker child on a chicken farm in Wineville who's terrified for his life allegedly. So the Jesse, the sister, she had made the call, and the police took it really seriously. So they're like, what this is like, such a very specific, strange tale, a Canadian citizen smuggled across the border

first forced to work on a chicken farm by his own uncle, like that's so weird. So they had straight to the farm and they find 15-year-old Sanford completely alone. They're like, hey, can you tell us what's going on? Are you alone? Yeah, where is the owner? Not here.

Well, who's the owner? A Gordon Norcott? Okay, well let's just wait for him. So they sit around two hours past. And they can't shake this feeling, the Sanford's act unweird. He keeps rambling, asking them questions, like nonsensical questions. Just bizarre stuff, so they just keep asking him, which one with you? Why are you being this way? Like, why are you so weird? What's going on? And Sanford slowly

starts breaking down and says, are you sure I can trust you? Can I trust you? And he starts telling them little bits and pieces of what happened on the farm. Now, I don't know if it was the trauma, I don't know if it was like, he was just splirting things out or if he had been trained to talk like this, but he had only mentioned the bits and parts

where he had murdered kids with stew, but forgot to mention that he was forced to, that he too was a victim. So stew had fled and was supposedly, I'm supposed to stall you guys. And if I don't, he said that he would climb up on a very tall tree and shoot me dead in front of you guys if I fail. Oh, so Stu, oh wow. He was on the run. Yeah. On the-

Right when the police- Oh, the police- The police- The police- So they're like, well now we got- it's been two hours. We've been sitting around. Do you've been, well, no, it's been two hours. We've been sitting around. Do you've been asking us full sh- questions for two hours?

We don't know where this guy is anymore. Are you kidding? And now you're saying you guys murdered people in the chicken coop. We got to bring you in. So they immediately bring him into the police station and they start questioning him like he is a serial killer. Now the higher up detective walks in and he is pissed.

He looks at Sanford. He looks at the rest of his team and says how dare you get the fork out of here. This kid is young, terrified. Look how sick he looks. He's pale. He's malnourished. He's underweight. He was forced to work 12 hour days every single day. That's what he told you. You think he's a part of this? You think he's a brains behind this? You idiots? So he's like, we got to treat him differently. And he's like, listen Sanford, it's going he told you. You think he's a part of this? You think he's the brains behind this, you idiots? So he's like, we gotta treat him differently. And he's like, listen, Sanford, it's gonna be okay. So Sanford starts opening up 10.

Not the NTS. Do I have to go to jail with the rest of the people? Can I just stay in isolation? And he's like, isolation, people normally don't like isolation. And it'll be nice to, you know, talk to some people. You're going to do V anyway. And he's like, I just don't like isolation. It'll be nice to talk to some people. You're going to do V anyway. And he's like, I just don't know if I can stop the bleeding this time.

The detectives like, what are you talking about? What bleeding? That's when you realized that Sanford had been sort of mice repeatedly for the past two and a half years. So they rushed him to the hospital for a checkup. And he's pissed. I mean, the detective is like yelling at his lower ranks. Like, how did you not even take him to the hospital? How did you not catch onto these things? Are you guys absolute idiots? So the doctors, they document

all the injuries left to his body. They nourished him back to health. Meanwhile, the police are tracking down Stu and his mom, find them in Canada, had them arrested, and before they could be extradited, they confessed to everything. Stu was like, yes, I killed five people. So apparently there's one we don't know about. So we've got the little boy that was decapitated, then we had Walter Collins, the two brothers, and then it's said that it was probably

another boy that was Mexican. But it's speculated that he killed upwards of 20 because we don't know who else outside of the farm. And look at the police back then like pain really didn't care. So Louise she confesses to killing Walter Collins. Now the confession was never properly documented which meant that when they got to the United States, they recanted everything immediately, and it could not be legally used against them.

So they were gonna have two separate trials. I love cereal. I'm gonna say it when I was a kid, the best moments of my life was when my Korean mother would let me go into the supermarket and pick out whatever just full of sugar cereal that I was allowed and I would just pour it into this big bowl, not knowing that it was just pure sugar that I was consuming. Now as an adult, I don't have that luxury, okay?

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rotten and use that code rotten to save $5 off. Thank you Magic Spoon for sponsoring this episode. [♪ Music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background So does that mean that maybe Stu went in later to move the bodies? When they were tested, there was residue of quick lime, which just dissolves flesh. So that makes sense. But Sanford's like, no, I swear, we never put anything when we put the bodies in. We never dumped any sort of mixture in. It was just always soil. I'm the one that did it. He didn't even have, like I know.

So the speculation really is that Stu went back once, you know, Jesse started putting on the heat and his grandma was like, you gotta do something. Then he poured in some quick line. He also took some bodies out, discarded them, or buried the mouseware. There was blood and clothing found that corroborated Sanford's account of things. There was also the axe with still human blood on it.

Now DNA testing was not good enough to identify if that was Walter Collins' blood at the time, but I mean... Yeah. So Stu's trial is first, and he claimed he was his own attorney, by the way. And it was like a really big show because he wanted to grill himself. You know how like a... You know how sometimes the defense attorneys will grill the defendant to make it look like I'm not trying to make it easy on you. I'm gonna ask you all the questions. I'm gonna turn up the heat so that the jury,

he would like grill himself. Oh, what? He'd be like, still, what were you doing that night? And he'd be like, well, oh, oh, oh. Like I was, I was just doing this that night. I can't even match. Joe. Yeah, he was like grilling himself.

He claimed that his dad sexually abused him since he was 10 years old. The whole family has denied this, but I don't know. That's not to say that we forgive him for everything he did in his adult years, you know, but like, yeah, we can have sympathy for him as a kid. I'm not discounting it, it's just, yeah, so that's what he states. And then he was found guilty. Set ins to death, but he wouldn't be hung until two years later.

So while he's in prison for two years, he reaches out to Christine Collins, the mother of nine-year-old Walter, and says, Listen, you're more than welcome to come on by and ask me whatever questions you want. Decide to visit me. I can talk to you. Give you the closure that you desperately need for your side. And so she goes and he refuses to talk to her. He sits there in silence refusing to talk to her. This is like his last act of just sick torture because this is what she needs. She needs closure.

She needs answers. And he won't. So two years after the trial, he was hung. And this little bit is, he requested to be blindfolded Because he asked the guard is it gonna hurt After everything like he's done. It's like Then grandma Louise she confessed to the murder of Walter Collins She was given life in prison with parole and she was released after 14 years

She did die like a year and a half later, but you know. Now because of all of the bad press, Wyneville changed their name to Mary Loma, California now. And Sanford Clark, he had really bad survivors guilt for the longest time. I think until the day he died, honestly. He married a woman by the name of June. They stayed married for 55 years, really helped him through his depression. They adopted two beautiful kids together. Sanford was terrified of having biological children because he didn't know what was in his genes. He didn't want to pass it on.

He felt like his uncle had it, his grandma had it, even his mom had that gene. And he was like, what if it's in me? I did do these things. Sure, I mean, I was threatened for my life, but I did do them at the end of the day. Like, that's how he was like, what if it's in me? I did do these things. Sure, I mean, I was threatened for my life, but I did do them at the end of the day. Like, that's how he was feeling. And when one of his kids, Jerry Clark, was 17 years old.

This is the one that helped with the book. They were in the car and Sanford pulled over. And said, Jerry, did you hear about the nurse that disappeared? Well, her body was found not too far from our house, and I feel like it's only a matter of time till they start comparing it to other cases. Now, at this point, Jerry 17 years old had no idea

about his dad's past. And he said, okay, what does that have to do with us? If they start pulling up records, they're gonna come across an uncle of mine, and me, and just told him the two and a half years that took place on the chicken farm because he said, better you hear from me than the press. Oh, he's saying that because he has this criminal record. Yeah, they're gonna think, was it him? Wow. He went on to fight six years in World War Two. He won an award for civic duty and

Even after all of that even after never reoffending not that he ever offended You know, he was not charged or anything never doing anything bad He still felt so much shame and guilt and he felt like he was evil He had flashbacks and nightmares for the rest of his life and it's like he just he kept questioning himself like am I even a good person? Even the rest of his life. All he really did like all the notable things like he did everything right. He just kept questioning. Am I even a good person? And that's the story of the wineville chicken coop murders. I don't know how to feel about this one.

I mean, I feel like I would go harder on the police and I'm like, did they really do this in the 20s and the 30s? Like, is this how police work happened? They do these like bogus tests of like, let me drop you off at the edge of the town and if you make it back home, you're it. What? It's bizarre.

What are your thoughts on this one? Let me know in the comments and I hope you guys enjoyed. Stay tuned for Sunday because we're kicking off spooktober with a spooky mini-sode. And I'll see you guys then. Bye!