Rotten Mango - #125: The “Angel Face Killer With Demon Eyes” (Case of Amanda Knox Part 2)

Episode Date: December 26, 2021

The stories were becoming wilder. Did you know that right after killing her roommate with her boyfriend - she took a shower in the blood-soaked bathroom? She killed her roommate over a threesome gone wrong! She even did cartwheels, backflips, and splits in the police station. If this were true she just might be the evilest woman in all of Italy. But what if it wasn’t? What if this was an innocent woman spending 5 years in prison for a murder that she did not commit? Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to this week's mini-sode of Rotten Mingo. I'm your host Stephanie Sue, and let's jump right into the story. If you guys listen to part 1 of this, this is the part 2, and I guess like the finale, But part one we had Meredith Kertcher, a British exchange student living in Italy who was viciously murdered in her own room. Now there were three girl roommates that were there. Two of them were from Italy for a while and then we have Amanda Knox who is an American exchange student. Now immediately the suspicion from the Italian police is falling on Amanda Knox and her Italian boyfriend Rafael Solicito And it's mainly because they have very

How do you say like odd behavior just bizarre behavior? You know at one point Amanda does a split in the police waiting room There's kind of a reason for it the police officer asks her Why you're very flexible do you do do you do yoga, what else can you do? So it's all these little things that are slowly adding up and the police force has decided, Amanda Knox is guilty. That's what they think,

that's how they feel. Now here's something about this case. The prosecutor working on Amanda Knox's case is a man that we are quite familiar with if you guys listen to the monster of Italy case. He is the one that we are quite familiar with if you guys listen to the monster of Italy case. He is the one that was so upset, so he's trying to find this serial killer in Italy. And it gets wild.

So he's trying to find this serial killer in Italy, and there is a journalist by the name of Mario Spezi and Mario is kind of critiquing the police force saying, hey, you guys are messing up the evidence, you guys aren't even collecting collecting evidence you guys are doing ABC and D wrong like you would have cut this person if you had just followed standard procedural you know police protocol so there's prosecutor gets so upset that he wire taps Mario's phone and he starts pinning the evidence on Mario has him arrested as the monster of Florence so one of the original journalist who was following the serial killer case and reporting on it,

suddenly is now the suspected serial killer. It's crazy. So this prosecutor is something else. And he- The hell is the timeline? Is this after the monster? This is after the monster in Florence. So he actually does go after Mario Spezi

and then almost immediately after he goes after Amanda Knox. So like back to back, he's like now moving on to the next one and all of these are high high profile cases, especially this Amanda Knox one because not only is all of Italy captivated, but you've got the UK captivated because the murder victim is a British exchange student and then all of America is captivated and the rest of the world too because they're like what? What's happening in these three countries? As always full source notes are available at rottenminglepodcast.com but you guessed it

I'm gonna talk about the book again. It's called Waiting to be Heard by Amanda Knox. It's a memoir and I could literally go on and on and rave about this book but I mean I feel like I read quite a bit and this is probably one of my top five books of the year. Yes, is it inspiring? Is it moving? Is it motivational? But above all, I just feel like it's raw. It's so vulnerable. It's so real. I literally can't stop talking about it. Now, this is not a source, but it's a recommendation. Through the book, I was like, wow, I love her writing so much. Found out that she had a podcast with her husband.

So Amanda Knox's podcast with her husband is called Labyrinths. And it's, I just started listening to it. I love it. It's good. I'm really picky about my podcast. They have like philosophical rants. They have very, very interesting interviews with people.

And they're just a compassionate duo. I feel like because of what Amanda Knox has gone through in life, everything about what she says is just a whole new deeper perspective. She just has a lot of perspective in life. But anyways, so let's pick up where we left off. It was the fourth day of the investigation. Amanda and Raphael are still free. You know, they're kind of being interrogated by the police every single day since the murder

happened. They're sleep deprived. They're exhausted. Amanda's confused. Her family keeps telling her, you gotta come back to Seattle. You gotta lawyer up. You gotta go to the American Embassy,

but she genuinely believes that she's helping the police. She feels like this is the right thing to do. This is the adult thing to do. So she's too scared to go home. She's too scared to be alone, right? And Raphael, on the fourth night, he gets called into the police station. They say, hey hey we need you.

Amanda's at Rafael's place and she's like well I don't want to stay alone like what do I do? Should I just go with you? She gets to the police station they say oh well you can't come inside. Why not but I'm too scared to like sit in the car in the dark please can I just like sit in the waiting room? So they say fine you can sit in the waiting room. They pull up a chair. She starts studying while she's waiting for Rafael to be questioned and an officer comes up and says can I ask you a few questions? So they kind of have this conversation and in the middle of it Amanda decides I feel a little bit sore I feel a little bit tense and stiff because got tired So she starts stretching a little bit and he's like wow you seem really flexible

She just casually says yeah, I mean I used to do a lot of yoga Really can you show me something? What else can you do? So Amanda does a split in the middle of the waiting room. This is the bizarre behavior, right? Now in the moment, another officer, the head of homicide, walks out and says, what are you doing? It was just waiting.

The officer says, oh, sorry, that was my bad. I was just asking her a few questions. And the head of homicide says, well, if that's the case, we need to put it on record. Amanda, you need to follow me. So suddenly, she went from just studying and waiting in the waiting room to being in an interrogation room in the middle of the night.

They immediately have like five police officers in there and they're just grilling her. You said you don't smoke weed. Are you sure that you're being honest? We feel like you're lying to us and she says okay Okay, okay, I'm sorry I lied the truth is I was afraid to tell you guys we all smoked weed occasionally including Meredith But we we never bought any pot like we we don't know any drug dealers They started interrogating her again. What were you doing on the night of November 1st?

They asked her for very specific times. She doesn't remember. She says, I think we had dinner around, I don't know, it was a late dinner. That's all I remember. Maybe 10, maybe 10, maybe 11, I don't know. The days are just kind of blended together. I just know it was a late dinner and then I went to sleep. So while being questioned, Amanda has this very uncomfortable feeling. And if you menstruate, you probably understand this feeling is, she knew it, she was bleeding through her pad. Like it was very moist, she's like, okay, I'm gonna be bleeding on this chair very, very soon. Can I please use the restroom?

I have a feminine emergency. No, not right now. So with this tension, the fact that they're all talking to her, screaming at her in Italian, multiple police officers at the same time, they're screaming over each other, the fact that she's bleeding through her menstrual pad, the fact that they keep accusing her of lying and they keep wanting specific timestamps for everything that she's done, she's starting to get freaked out. She's starting to get a little bit panicked, like this is the most intense thing that

she's ever had. So police are coming in and out of that room, and Amanda had a text message that night. So November 1st is a huge holiday in Italy and every club, every bar, they're closed. All of the buses don't even run that day. So it's a very family focused holiday. This is the day after Halloween, right? And Amanda worked at a bar.

So her boss texted her, I don't know why I opened up, like, this is really slow. I'm just gonna close up for the night. You don't have to come in for your shift. She had texted him back, okay, see you later, have a good evening. So the police keep asking her. Who's your boss? Did he know Meredith? Did he like Meredith? Was he possibly interested in Meredith? Did he think that Meredith was pretty? What and she's like what? No

Which time did he text you? Why did you delete the text message? So again, this is like another instance of Amanda had deleted her boss's text message to her, but again, this is before iPhones. So when you had a phone, like a regular phone back then, it's not like every person's chat was individualized. So think of it more like an email, but even emails these days are divided into threads.

So if you keep responding to the thread, I mean, the thread just goes to the top again, right? But it's almost like every message is just logged in there. I see, I see. Kind of, I guess, like your call log. Yeah. So maybe if you're like, oh, this is a useless text message, you might delete it. Yeah.

Okay. So that's kind of like the situation. So she's like, I don't know why I deleted it. It's not like I was trying to hide it. I guess more so, like, I just delete things that don't really matter. I don't know. Like, that that's such a what is it matter? Then a cop runs into the room almost looking happy Excited and says Ravael says you left his apartment that night on Thursday night He says that you asked him to lie for him. Oh, ho, ho. He's taken away your alibi

She's like what I didn't leave his place that night. I swear to you. And they keep questioning her, did you go to see your boss that night? My boss, Patrick? No, why would I go see my boss? He texted me that I didn't have to show up for work. And why would you go see your boss

if you don't have to work? That's the last person you want to see. But you told him you were going to meet him. No, I didn't. Why would I tell him something like that? Read this message. Look at what you texted him. It said, but you told him you were gonna meet him. No, I didn't. Why would I tell him something like that? Read this message. Look at what you texted him. It said, see you later.

So why did you go see him? What? And she's like, wait, no, no, that's not what it means. I didn't see him. Oh my god. Okay, maybe there's like a little bit of a discrepancy. In English, see you later means goodbye. Like it doesn't mean see you later tonight.

It doesn't mean see you later today. It doesn't mean see you later today. It just means see you later eventually. Eventually I'll see him because he's my boss. See you later. You're kidding me. The English speaking cop looked at Amanda, looked back at her peers, her colleagues, and screamed, she's a liar.

So pretty much, you know, the rest of the Italian cops are like, that doesn't make sense to us. See you later means see you later literally. The rest of the Italian cops are like, that doesn't make sense to us. See, later means, see you later, literally. The one person that's cooking English was like, she's lying, that's not what it means in English. And she's just shocked. So she's sitting there like, what the fork? They're all screaming now. Why are you lying? Who are you protecting? Who's Patrick? Are you helping Patrick did Patrick come, Meredith? And it was just chaos and they kind of tell her Amanda. Maybe you're just traumatized by what you saw.

Maybe you're so traumatized, you don't even remember. You're getting all of your times wrong. No, I do remember, I'm not traumatized. What's going on right now, I'm so confused. And she just, she gets so flabbergasted, she screams, I don't know what the fuck is happening right now. Which is a very regular thing to say, right? But an Italian police officer thought that she had cursed them out and he gets up in her face and screams back at her, no, fuck you. So he thought that she said, fuck you guys. But she said, I don't know what the fuck is happening right now.

This is crazy. I know, all in Italian. Out of nowhere, you know, they're screaming, the head of homicide walks over and Slaps a man on the back of her head and says stop lying She's like, why are you hitting me? I'm not lying. I'm hitting you to get your attention You need to remember you need to stop lying. I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to help you remember the truth. Amanda had no idea up until this point that they were trying to get her to confess.

I mean, that's what they needed for this case. Nobody had read her her rights. And Amanda, like so many people, thought that being silent was admitting guilt. Trying to get a lawyer, aggressively trying to fight for an attorney, she felt like that's admitting guilt. She didn't realize that she doesn't have to partake in any of this. She could technically get up and leave at any moment.

Sure, they're gonna tell her no you can't, but she could just say, am I legally required to stay? If not, yes I can. So we need to take you back to the house. We have evidence to show you. That's what they tell Amanda. It proves that you left Raphael's apartment they tell Amanda. It proves that you left Raphael's apartment that night. Even he said that you left November 1st. Your traumatized,

you have amnesia. You just don't remember, but we can help you remember. And if you don't help, you're going to go to prison for 30 years. Amanda said in that moment, she felt like she was getting smaller and smaller. I mean her thought was they have to be Pressuring me for a reason. If they're gonna take me back and show me evidence That's evidence is evidence. I mean there's something that is not what I'm saying They have to be telling the truth right? Rathiel is probably telling the truth right? Why would even he lie? None of this is making sense. Am I actually so traumatized that I don't remember? I mean that is the most traumatizing thing that I've ever experienced in life is my roommate dying.

I don't know what to do. She was sleep deprived. She felt like she couldn't even distinguish between what was real and what was fake. So they kept telling her, we want to help you. You just need to tell us who the killer is. Is it Patrick? And now, this is the part that a lot of people are not going to be on board for and I agree but there's a lot about police interrogations that come into play. So Amanda said

what she's going to do going forward, she could kind of imagine it. She could kind of imagine it happening but it felt like a dream. It didn't feel like a memory. So if you remember what you ate for lunch yesterday, but if I tell you to imagine that you had pancakes and waffles and a tower of strawberries with a maple syrup fountain Technically, you could vision it and technically I could say oh it was for your birthday And you you might be like well that makes sense right that be a very lavish brunch for my birthday But does it really feel like a memory? But your brain can picture it so that's kind of what happens here. She says yeah, it was Patrick Okay, so who's the who's Patrick? He's he's my boss. Where did you meet Patrick? November 1st Amanda?

I don't know. Yes, you do just think about it. I guess I met him at the basketball court Why did Patrick kill Meredith? I don't know. Did he have sex with Meredith? Did he go into the room with Meredith? And she says, I don't know. I guess I'm so confused. And suddenly the cops weren't yelling at her. They were trying to treat her like she was a helpful ally all of a sudden. They went from why are you lying to, okay, wow, you're really helping us and we're trying to help you. Patrick took advantage of you to get to Meredith. Isn't that true? So help us help this case. Finally at two in the morning, they give her a piece of paper in Italian to sign on it said on Thursday, November 1st,

on the day that I normally work. I was at my boyfriend's place when I got a text from my boss, Patrick, that he was closing the club for the night so that I didn't need to work. I responded that we could see each other right away, so I left the house, I told my boyfriend I had to go to work, but I was confused because I was high on marijuana. I felt weak, I don't do drugs often, and I met up with my boss at the basketball court. We later went to the house together and Meredith was there. I think Patrick had sex with her.

He was obsessed with her. I remember confusingly that he killed her. So they had her sign this, but the minute that she signed the paper, the officers high fived and cheered. And they screamed at her, now take off your sneakers, we need them as evidence. So she took off her sneakers. They told her someone would be in to talk to her, someone that you're familiar with if you listen to the monster of Florence case. They kind of told her that this is like a mayor, someone who's gonna help you get police protection.

But in reality, it was the prosecutor. Why would someone in an interrogation room be meeting with a prosecutor? Not for any good reasons, that's for sure. His name is Juliano Mignini, prosecutor M, right? And once prosecutor M graced his presence in this interrogation room, she asked finally, do I need a lawyer? Because she thought this was a mayor, not a police officer, someone who might be on her side, and he said no, no, no, that will only make things worse it'll seem like you don't want to help us which you do right yeah yeah I do this time you know they keep asking her deeper questions what color jacket was Patrick wearing are you scared of Patrick was married at home did you

hear her scream how did you not hear her scream if she died how did you not hear that? So now she's confused and she said, I guess maybe I covered my ears? So it's almost like she's answering like a hypothetical question. Like she's like filling in the blanks to a story, but not like a memory of like, oh, I remember I did this. She said, I don't know, maybe I covered my ears. I don't know. And she even told him straight up.

I don't know if I'm just imagining all of this. I'm trying to remember and you're telling me to remember but I don't know, this just doesn't feel right. Did you hear her scream? I think so. Then she signed another statement stating that she was terrified of her boss Patrick, that she saw Patrick and Meredith disappear into Meredith's room while she was in the kitchen and she heard Meredith scream.

She covered her ears but she also said that she was really confused and she heard Meredith scream. She covered her ears, but she also said that she was really confused and she doesn't remember if she screamed or if there were thoughts, but she can imagine what's going on. So Amanda, I mean, her whole thought process in all of this is that her mom was actually visiting from Seattle soon. Her mom was gonna stay for a couple of days, handle this whole thing with the police

and she was just gonna finally have some comfort. She just wanted to leave the police station. She just wanted to sign leave get some sleep wait for her mom to come and everything was gonna be okay in just a few hours Her mom lands that morning So she just needed to sleep the night away But the officers they take her sign statement they excitedly leave the room and you actually she crawled into a fetal position and passed out So exhausted. Yeah's so exhausted. Yeah. So then she hears her phone ring.

There's an officer in the room watching her. And that's her phone. She's like, I need to pick that up. I'm supposed to meet my mom at the train station. She's gonna freak out if I don't answer. No, your phone is evidence. You can't have it back. Besides, you need to go eat.

So Amanda is taken to the cafeteria to eat with no shoes and only socks. And there was like no food left. Why are they taking her shoes? I don't know, because there was a bloody shoe print. But it's not hers. So Rita, the head detective tells her, sorry I hate you. I was just trying to help you remember the truth. Sorry for the physical torture.

I was just trying to help. I was just trying to make you remember the truth clearly with no bias, no pressure. And Amanda tried to say, I hope once this gets sorted out, you'll see that I'm on your side in Italian. But it came out as, I hope you can see that I'm your friend.

And the police spun it as if she was trying to, you know, be buddy buddy with the police to get away with murder. So the rest of the day, Amanda keeps doubting her memory and they would just brush her off. Like literally every two seconds she would say, it's been a 16 hour interrogation, 16 hour interrogation. And I just don't know, I'm confused, I don't know if I meant what I said in those moments. Like once she had signed those papers, she started walking it back. She's like, guys, I just signed it because I was so exhausted,

but now that I'm like really, really thinking about it, I don't think that that's what happened. But they're like, yes, it is. You just have to remember. And at the end of it, she was like, okay, well, can I just go home now? And they say, well, here's the thing. We need to take you into custody.

Just for a few days, it's mainly for bureaucratic reasons. And she's thinking, oh, like a safe house? Will my mom be there? I need to call my mom. So she asks for a piece of paper. And she tried one last time before she's taken into what she assumes is protective custody, right, of the police. Protection.

What do you call it? Witness protection. That's what she thinks it is. She asks for a piece of paper. So she starts writing to let the police know that what she said wasn't true. And she said, I know that this is strange, but what really happened is as confusing to me as it is everyone else. I was told that there was hard evidence that I was there when Meredith was killed. I want to confirm this because I just doesn't make

sense. There are things that I remember and things that are confusing, but I swear I didn't leave Raphael's place. I showered with him, I don't remember the time we had a late dinner around 11 p.m. I remember there was even a kitchen leak, a kitchen sink leak, and I told him since he doesn't have a mob I can bring one tomorrow. In regards to the quote confession that I made last night, I want to make it very clear. I am very doubtful of the accuracy of my statements.

They were made under the pressures of stress shock and extreme exhaustion I was also told that I'd be placed in jail for 30 years and I was also hit on my head I understand the police are under a lot of stress So I understand the treatment I received the confession though seems unreal to me It feels like a dream. I'm unsure if these are real events or it's just all in my head I feel like my head is making it up to try and answer the questions being asked and here's why Number one the police said that they have evidence I was at my house when she was killed. I don't know what proof this is but even if it's true

It's just confusing. That doesn't make any sense to me because I feel like I wasn't Number two my boyfriend claims that I have said things that I know are not true, like asking him to lie for me. What I don't understand is why would Raphael, who's been nothing but kind and caring and gentle lie about something like this? I know that this is a lie. Does he have something to hide? I feel like he's scared, like I am. Maybe he's just trying to disassociate from me. I can understand why the police don't believe me. Number one, the police are confused as to why it took me so long to call someone on with

the door being, you know, burst open when I got home that morning. I just wasn't thinking the worst that somebody was murdered. Maybe I was in shock at the time. I didn't know what to think, but that's the truth. The police think it's weird that I can't fully recall the events that happened at Raphael's house that night, but sure it seems incriminating. Number 3. I'm really confused.

My head is full of contrasting ideas, like contradicting ideas. I know that I'm hard to work with right now, but I just want to tell the truth as best as I can. I just know. I'm scared for myself, and I know I didn't kill Meredith. That's all I know. The questions I need answering are, 1. Why did Raphael lie?

Or maybe he didn't lie? Two, why did I think of Patrick? Three, is the evidence of my presence at the time and place of the crime reliable? Four, if so, what does that say about my memory? Is my memory reliable? Five, is there any other evidence condemning Patrick or any other person?

6. Who is the real murderer? And then at the end, she wrote heartbreakingly, please don't yell at me because it only makes me more confused, which doesn't help anyone. Who is she writing to? The police. So they're not like listening to her, so every time she tries to say these things,

they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're just having a hard time. Remember, it'll all come back to you. So she's asking for like a piece of paper. So she can write down her thoughts and the translator can hopefully spread this message amongst the police and maybe they'll think again at this confession, right? So she heads it to the head of homicide and she didn't know how to explain like, oh, this is my explanation. This is what I wanted to say.

So she said in her very broken Italian. So mind you Amanda did not study Italian before she got to Italy. So she says I have a present for you and the head of homicide Looks at her and kind of spits out. What is it my birthday? Like just I mean the whole attitude. Yeah, it's very condescending Amanda felt better But she felt like this letter would clear everything up, but it only made things worse. She was immediately dragged out of the room, read her rights handcuffed, and they grabbed her arm and said, your under arrest were taking you to prison. And she's like, what? Amanda, again, thought the time to call a lawyer is over. The only thing to do is follow the police, you know, follow the rules, follow authority.

So she's taken into a room where there's a male doctor who has her strip naked, spread her legs, he searched her, but also took pictures of her genitals like what? I don't know why he took pictures. I guess it's for the record, maybe they do this. I don't know, he took pictures of her genitals. Amanda said this was one of the most dehumanizing degrading experiences she had ever been through. She felt violated and angry. They measured her arms, her feet, her legs.

She thought that it was just a checkup, but in reality, they were trying to fit the crime to her exact dimensions. Afterwards, they gave her a skirt that they took from her house and her boots to wear. So I mean, she just thought it was weird. Like, why would I, it's like freezing cold outside. Why am I gonna wear a skirt and boots? So she asked if she could just wear the sweatpants, Rafael's sweatpants that she wore to the station instead. I think that they gave her the skirt because I just long story. So the handcuffed her. They put it on super loose and this is how much Amanda was submitting to the police. She said excuse me, but I can slip my hand out of the handcuffs and they said, oh, okay, and they tightened it.

So they put a hat down over her eyes and said that there's going to be reporters. This is the part where I feel like that's why they wanted her to wear the skirt and you're going to be like, why? What does that matter? Right? But when you kind of see the way that the police are handling the case later on, public perception is everything. Everyone and their mom, every person in this world essentially hated Amanda Knox. And they thought that she was Italy's whore. That's what they called her, the whore of Perugia. That's literally what people called her. So I think that the police were trying to play into that narrative, have her wear wear this flimsy airy skirt that is way too cold for the weather, but instead she had put on the sweatpants. Now the police were excited.

That night they held a massive press conference and they said that this case was officially closed. Amanda Knox, Raphael and Patrick will all be arrested for a sexual encounter that went horrifically wrong. So Amanda gets rushed into the police car. She gets sent to prison and she did briefly pass by Raphael, who refused to look at her. She felt like he hated her. The police left her in the care of the prison staff.

Everything was taken from her, her passport wallet, journal, her boots, all of her clothes, even her socks. She said that she was naked in front of strangers for the second time that day. She had no dignity, her eyes were filled with tears, and in prison they gave her a blanket, a metal bowl, a plate, spoon, fork, plastic cup, toothbrush, toothpaste, and worn out slippers. And this is how optimistic Amanda was. She turned around and said, wait, what about my textbooks? I have school, I'm gonna be back in class in a few days. I don't want to fall behind She would actually be in prison for years

She had no idea that tonight would be the first of 1,427 nights in prison Amanda was taken to herself. She said something in her book that is so terrifying and it's and I quote Incredibly as I went deeper and deeper into the cage, I didn't have the urge to escape anymore. Just the deeper every cell that you pass, you feel less like, oh, let me try to make a run for it. She gets escorted into her cell and she asks, can I make a call? And the guard looked at her like she just asked to talk to the president of the United States. She wanted a back scratch and a tub of caviar to bathe in.

He was just like, what the fork are you saying? All she wanted to do was call her mom. So I'm sure you're thinking the same pressing question that I am. Did her boyfriend betray her? And if he did, why would he? That makes no sense for Rafael to lie, right? Did he really tell the cops that she had no alibi?

All along, he had just been lying for her because she asked him to. He said that, why would he lie like that? Maybe he was beat by the police, did they smack him on the back of the head too? Well let me take you there. Raphael is sitting in the interrogation room with the police and they keep telling him, tell us what happened on November 1st. Well I went to Amanda's place and then we came back to mine to watch a movie, we smoked a joint, I don't remember the exact time. I was kind of tired.

And he was thinking a little bit ahead and he said, are you guys recording this? No, because the transcription will cost a lot of money. So no, we're not recording this. Are they lying? No, they weren't recording because, you know, if they recorded it, I would expose how shady there be. How convenient. So what did Amanda do November 1st?

Uh, what day was November? I think Amanda went shopping that night? No, actually that was the night before. Wait, I haven't so confused. Can you just tell me what day of the week November 1st was? So imagine you're being questioned on Sunday. If I asked you what was happening November 1st, it might be a little bit more confusing than just saying

what happened Thursday night. Can you just check the calendar for me? November 1st, it might be a little bit more confusing than just saying what happened Thursday night. Can you just check the calendar for me? November 1st means nothing to me, but I have a better understanding of what I did, let's say Wednesday or Tuesday or Thursday. No, you can't check the calendar, don't even touch it. What? So what did you do that day?

You need to tell us, we need to know what you did with that cow, what did you do with that wh- What did they ask him about Amanda? This is all in his book, he's like what? So the cops really hate Amanda. Raphael was getting worried. He asked for an attorney and they said, no, you don't have that right. You don't even get to make a call. If you try and get up to leave, we'll beat you to a pulp and kill you and leave you in

a pool of blood. So tell us what happened. Did Amanda go out that night? Why are you hiding things from us? You lost your head for a cow? She's not even good for you. So Raphael could literally hear Amanda screaming and crying in the next room over, and he just kept saying, listen, I'm so tired, I'm confused, I'm overwhelmed. Okay, that's fine. Just sign this paper. We've already prepared it for you. Now, there were multiple parts to this paper, but essentially

it was a mashup of Halloween in November 1st. So what Raphael and Amanda did on Halloween, he was getting it confused with November 1st and thought the events of those two nights were just one night. He said that he was on his computer, Amanda had headed in to town that night to do some shopping, which isn't true. That was on Halloween, but not November 1st, and Amanda didn't get home to like 1am, which is true on Halloween night, but not November 1st and Amanda didn't get home till like 1am, which is true on Halloween night but not November 1st. He didn't realize that the importance of signing something like this. He didn't know.

The police knew though that he would effectively be getting rid of Amanda's whole alibi, but he was just so tired, which I mean he just thought, is the stupid statement really that important? Maybe we can all revisit when we've gotten some rest and we can think clearly. There was one part though that really bothered Raphael. In the statement that they had already prepared for him, it said, pretending to be Raphael, the police wrote, in my last statement, I told you a lot of crap because she, Amanda, talked me into her version of events.

He said, wait, what? I didn't say that. I never said any of that. I didn't say like Amanda made me lie and they're like, yeah, yeah, that doesn't say that. I never said any of that. I didn't say like Amanda made me lie. And they're like, yeah, yeah, that doesn't even matter. It's all a formality. Honestly, it's not even that important. It's just part of the process.

We just have you guys sign these statements because we got to show something for our work tonight. So Raphael, like Amanda, he trusted the police. He had been interrogated for five hours with no break and he just wanted to go home. He just wanted to think with a clear mind after a good night's rest. And then the police tell him that Amanda had implicated him and Patrick in the murder. And he was going to be arrested too. Why would you break into these apartments? For money, for drugs, whatever was in them. Why aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this?

No. Who's going to catch us? What a police! It was the height of the crack era, and instead of locking up drug dealers, some New York City cops had become them. I would suit up in my uniform and we're going to want some drug dealers, and I know how to do it really well.

This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal some drug dealers and I know how to do it really well. This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal in NYPD history and the investigation that uncovered it all. Did you consider yourself a rat? 100% I saved my soul just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set, an Odyssey Originals documentary podcast series available now in the Odyssey app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a big guy man, but I love being that dirty mother f***er.

He was just so shocked, and he was pissed. He said, okay, I get it. Amanda was under a lot of pressure, but so was I. How could she just invent stuff out of nowhere? Why would she drag me into something I had no part of? So Raphael gets dragged into another room, and they're just straight up roasting him at this point. They're not even like trying to arrest him or get further in the investigation. They just keep screaming, your poor father. I heard he's a urologist. A doctor. How is he gonna take all of this? What did he do to deserve a son like you? They slapped him across the face and said, Your father is a fine, upstanding citizen. He doesn't deserve a son like you.

Someone who would stand by a whore like Amanda. She went out November 1st, didn't she? I'm not sure. I don't know. Well, if you can't remember, it's gonna be real bad for you. You're creating a lot of big problems for yourself. She said that you were there when Meredith was killed. But if you can't remember, it's gonna be real bad for you. You're creating a lot of big problems for yourself. She said that you were there when Meredith was killed. What?

I don't even know what you're talking about. I never even went into her room. I never even saw the body that night stay. So what are you trying to suggest? The whole interrogation went in circles and when the police couldn't get anything new out of him, they just arrested him. They took a sample of his DNA, his pubic hair, and he said, look, I don't mind this, but why don't you guys go through my laptop so we can find out

what I was doing November 1st? Like, that's evidence, right? So the police say, okay, let's go. They've taken back to his place. And the first thing that the officer said right when they untard was, smells like bleach in here. And Rafael was like, no, it doesn't, you weirdo. Why are you saying that? No, it doesn't. It doesn't even, I didn't even clean my apartment like that. Why would it smell like bleach? It literally doesn't smell like bleach. The officers instead of looking at his laptop, like he had asked,

they start going through his kitchen. And there were two officers. One of them opens up a drawer full of knives and pulls out a knife and literally says, in Italian, hey, will this one do? It was eight inches long and the other officer said, oh yeah that's great. In the bedroom the police find a collection of manga which they later described to be a series of highly sexualized horror stories with lots of blood monsters having violent sex with humans.

And they look at the manga, they look at Raphael and they straight up tell them oh my god What do we have here? You're a real piece of shit. Are you not? Well, we're gonna take care of you. Don't worry Now what by the way the manga is even if they were his what's the big deal But they were a gift from a friend and Raphael had no idea what they were even about like he hadn't even read them He just struck them in a corner, but nonetheless He's taken to prison and prison life would be very horrible for the both of them. Raphael was placed in a cell with a nice damp mattress. There were little peepoles, spy holes in

a cell everywhere. The guards would randomly come up and bang on the bars and scream, what have you done? Raphael never responded. He would just sit there quietly and stare at the window. Amanda, she was having a rough time too. She spent most of her time laying in bed, crying, softly singing, let it be by the Beatles, over and over, and picking at her fingernails, which were completely chewed raw from stress and anxiety. It was always freezing in her cell,

and finally, when she got some pen and paper, she spent a lot of her time journaling. The one person that gave her comfort, even though she wasn't religious, was the nun that stopped by. She would grab Amanda's arms through the bars of her cell and would tell her, God knows everything. He will help you find the answer. So while in prison, she gets some sleep, her brain is no longer panicked about trying

to solve Meredith's murder, so she writes on a piece of paper to the person who must know this. And it was super long, but to summarize, I mean she remembered everything that happened November 1st, it was very clear, very concise. The gist was, she read a chapter of Harry Potter and Italian, like she does every single night. She watched a movie, Cook Dinner, smoked a joint, Raphael and her had sex and then she passed out. She even talked about how after dinner, Raphael was washing the dishes in the kitchen and she was giving him a back massage. And it's just something that they do for one another because it makes cleaning the dishes and doing the chores a little bit better. She even remembered that while they were smoking weed, she kept trying to comfort Raphael,

like I know, the sink is broken, you're upset, but you know, these little bad things are nothing to worry about in life. And they started talking about what kind of people they were. How Amanda was more easygoing, a little less organized, and how he was very organized because of the time that he spent in Germany. I mean, it was just a very in-depth conversation. It was very, very detailed in this new recount

that she had of November 1st. But is her writing gonna be shared? Or is somebody gonna grab it or? Yes, so the prison guards grab it and the police don't care. They're like, okay, cool, but we have a sign statement. So this, like, who's to even say she gave this to us? We could just burn it and be like, we didn't get that. She's just making stuff up. Who's gonna believe the-

Perutia? Nobody! What's even crazier is that she thought that this letter would change everything but it didn't instead the next day she was taken to a courtroom whereas she met two people hello i'm carlo this is Luciano and where your lawyers your family has hired us please

sit down and don't say another word in front of her were three women in black robes they were judges judges. Please stand. The judge spoke, you, Amanda Marie Knox, her formerly under investigation for the murder of Meredith Karcher. How do you respond? You have the right to remain silent.

Do you have anything to say for yourself? The lawyers told her not to talk. She found out that the prosecutor had actually banned her from seeing her attorneys before the court hearing, so she was just so confused. Amanda said in her memoir, and I quote, I can't be certain of who ordered that I be put in isolation or not allowed to watch TV or to read.

But to cut me off from the news from the outside world, I believe that the police in the prosecution purposely left me so uninformed that I would arrive at my first hearing totally unprepared to defend myself. So Amanda remained quiet. She was rushed out of the room. The lawyers told her we're going to go to try to see you ASAP, we're also trying to get your mom in for visits. After this hearing, the judge told the public, well rather, her notes from the preliminary hearing were released to the public, and according to the book it said, there are no doubts

that Patrick Raphael and Amanda were involved. Their motive was that Raphael and Amanda wanted to try a new sensation, and Patrick wanted to have sex with Meredith, but she refused. The three of them forced her will and with Raphael's pocket knife, because Raphael and Amanda were, quote, bored of the same old evening, they, um, they killed her. With that being said, Amanda was not going to get out of prison anytime soon.

In fact, her time in prison was only going to get worse. She was no longer in isolation. She was going to have cellmates. Yes, the first cellmate that she had was a woman in her 40s that would just, she had sores all over her face and arms and she would pick at them every day and there would be pus all over the room and blood. Amanda was terrified. But the worst part is this woman kept demanding to know about Amanda's case and kept bullying her to buy things for her like food, candy, and supplies.

This would actually be one of her nicer sellmates. And then the news hit. The guards told Amanda that the judge had ruled for cautionary custody for at least a year. So what that means is, things are a little bit different in Italy. In America, if you're not charged with a crime, they can't hold you. They can question you and they can like try to charge you, get a warrant for your arrest, but they can't put you in jail.

In Italy, if they're investigating and you're suspect that the judge believes is at flight risk, they can hold you in prison for a year while they investigate, even if they don't charge you. So she's not officially charged with anything, but she's being investigated for the murder of Meredith Kerture, and that's why she's in prison. I mean, it's kind of similar in the US where they try to charge you with lesser crimes to just throw you in prison for a little while while they investigate like the bigger crime.

Maybe they throw you in for drug charges while they investigate a murder charge, right? But in Italy, it's just that's how it works. So when Amanda found out that she was going to be in prison for a year, she was devastated. The same day that Amanda had her preliminary hearing, Raphael had his, but his lawyers let him talk. They just let him talk all that he wanted. They hadn't even met him yet. So when the judge told him that his Nike shoes were a match

for the footprint in Meredith's like blood soaked room, he tried to explain why his footprint would be in the house. He didn't realize that it was a bloody footprint. So he was just saying, oh, my footprint might be in there because like I go over all the time and like I'm always there, so like that makes sense. Which think about it, if you're talking about a bloody footprint and he's oblivious to that, it sounds really guilty. It almost sounds like he's just trying to justify his bloody footprint, but he didn't know it was a bloody footprint. He thought it was a regular footprint. No, it's a ledge that the murder weapon was Raphael's pocket knife and he said, I know, I know. Like,

I'm such a douche for having a knife collection. Like, that's what he said about it. So, again, just really unprepared. The judge surprised him with another odd question. They said, online, on your blog, you wrote a while back that, you can only hope that you will experience even stronger emotions in the future to take you by surprise all over again. And he said, oh, I was referring to like other types of experiences, like helping a young person grow and mature, like instead of spending time with the same people every day, you know, do something different. Well, what kind of experiences do you mean by that?

For example, being with a woman. What kind of experiences do you mean by that? For example, being with a woman. What the heck? Why would you say that? Of course, Raphael, again, was unprepared, but the prosecution twisted this to say, see, this is our motive. Amanda and Raphael wanted to experience being with a woman together, a three-some,

and that person was meridus, but she didn't want it, so they killed her. Yeah, so after this, Raphael's dad gets a new attorney and their whole game plan going forward changes. It was very clear, their whole game plan was to disassociate from Amanda. His lawyers put out a statement from Rafael that allegedly said, if I'm here, it's her fault above all. I am conscious that contrary to what I thought, our paths have diverged profoundly. Reporters asked him, Rafael, would you like to say something to Amanda?

Nothing. I have absolutely nothing to say to her. But at the same time, his lawyers wanted him to say this magic phrase that he had fallen asleep the night of November 1st and he had no idea what Amanda was up to. He knocked out, he doesn't know if maybe Amanda snuck out, maybe she didn't. She could have easily left, you know? But he said, no, I refuse. That's not what happened,

and his dad was getting so frustrated with him. Have you lost your mind over a girl? You're gonna spend the rest of your life in here for her? But he just kept saying it doesn't make sense because she doesn't have a key to my apartment. So I don't really remember what happened November 1st. I'm so confused. I feel traumatized, but I don't think she left because if she left, I would have had to buzz her back in, which is not a memory that I have. So how does that make sense? Amanda had no idea how to feel about this. Sometimes

she said she felt sad that he was probably super traumatized too, just like her. Other time she was pissed. Oddly enough, Rafael had someone in the neighboring cell that he was very familiar with, at least by name, and by case, Patrick, the police put them in the cells right next to each other to see if they would incriminate each other or talk or do something together. So they were both advised to pretend they didn't exist. Oh, so they were told not to talk to each other at all? By the lawyers. But the police didn't tell him that the police were like here you guys go Have fun

There was another instance where Raphael was placed with a former criminal a big name criminal Which is strange because imagine you just have friendly visits so if you're in prison They take you out of your cell to go visit another and make it their cell like what is this playtime? It's just weird, but Raphael was bored and he was naive. So he went, thought that whatever beats being in my cell and this big crime boss kept asking him, why are you protecting Amanda? Just tell the cops you lied and you did it for her and you'll get a reduced sentence like just say you were there but she did all the killing. Raphael refused and the crime boss was

so taken aback, you know, with this guy's backbone. His hesitancy and his refusal to bend into the will of the police that he straight up told Raphael, listen, you're here because I struck a deal with the cops. You're supposed to flip your mind and blame it all on Amanda. I'm supposed to get you to turn on Amanda, but I respect you for not bending to the cops, so I'm going to refuse to work with him. Meanwhile, Amanda was finally being able to meet with her mom. And the last time that she saw her mom was to the cops, so I'm gonna refuse to work with him. Meanwhile, Amanda was finally being able to meet with her mom. And the last time that she saw her mom

was at the airport leaving for Italy, now she was in prison for murder. And one of the first things that she asked her mom was, do you believe me? And Amanda said that at first her mom seemed surprised by this question like, what, what did she just ask? And then so sad. And she looked at her daughter and said,

of course I believe you, oh honey, how could I ever not? The next day Amanda's dad came. She didn't even know he was coming to Italy. Things must be pretty bad if he came. That's what she said. Like, the things are getting weird. She had no idea how much worse things were gonna get. Amanda's dad could barely talk.

He was just choking up. His eyes were red, he looked like he had aged greatly since she left for Italy. Amanda's stepdad and aunts and uncles, they all traveled from foreign distant countries to try and see Amanda in prison, but the prison rules were that you could only visit eight times a month, two times a week. I mean this is kind of wild, so they made the vest of it, the family rented, spent all their money, almost every single close family member. Her stepdad, her stepmom, her parents, her aunts and uncles, her grandma, they remorgaged their houses to come to Italy, to be with Amanda so they could see her twice a week and to pay for her legal fees.

Oh my gosh. And Amanda is still in this deep of a hole. That just shows how terrible of a situation that she's in. Oh yeah. The family rented a tiny little apartment in the countryside 10 miles from the prison. This is not in Perugia anymore. This is like the middle of nowhere. There's no reason for them to be there. It's, you know, they're just there for Amanda. They left their lives, their families, their homes, just so they could see her twice

a week. Amanda's mom lost 20 pounds from stress. And when you're like a middle aged woman, that's a lot of weight. That's pretty dangerous. Or will any age, the family was constantly being harassed by media, journalists, reporters. But to them, it was, it was worth it. Because without them, Amanda would have nothing to hold on to. She would have no hope. Amanda's harassed by media, journalists, reporters, but to them it was worth it because without them Amanda would have nothing to hold on to. She would have no hope. Amanda's lawyers also added a ton of hope. They thought that after the media tension died down, a judge would easily put her on her

house arrest, and then once the pressure was off they would realize they have no evidence, and quietly Amanda would go free and then nobody would ever talk about it again, and she needs to get out of Italy once she's free and go back to America and just think of this as a weird fever dream. A man to try to fight her best to be herself in prison, but she had no idea how to behave in prison. She would see a guard one day and just casually say, oh, how's your day? And they would spit at her. You need to stop kidding yourself and acting like we're friends. I'm a guard your prisoner, you need to behave like one. She's like, okay, she's- What?

Trying to see how your day was. So Amanda retreated into her cell and she spent 16 hours a day learning Italian. She started keeping a diary called my prison diary and she would write in it every single day. This is actually the diary that she used to help write her memoir and all those memories and I think that's why it's so raw because a lot of it she wrote when she was in the height of those emotions so looking back I mean it's like a capsule of emotions. Now if it sounds like her prison life is getting any easier it was not. Maybe she was adapting though but it was getting worse.

For instance the warden of the prison the head of the prison would call her into his office every single night. Obviously not by her choice, but what in prison is her choice. And he would say things like, it's a shame that you're here because you're so pretty. You should be careful of the prison food because you have this nice hourglass figure and you don't want to ruin it like the other inmates. Are you good at sex? No way. She would say, excuse me and he said, come on, answer the question.

You know what I'm asking you. I heard you like having sex. That's what the reporters are saying. What positions do you like? Like how do you like having, would you have sex with me? And she was so shocked, she just said, no. Oh, is it because I'm old? Amanda in these instances, with panic, and she would pretend like she didn't understand

his Italian, which she hated that she had to see him all the time. And her parents told her, you have to tell someone this is crazy, he can't do that to you and she's thinking, who do I tell? Him? He's the bus here! Who's gonna take my word over his? Inside Amanda's cell, she was finally allowed to TV and she started watching everything that was happening in the press and the prosecutors were having a field day. All of their theories were being aired all over the TV stations all day, all night. Their new theory was that Amanda was holding Meredith down, either while Patrick or Rafael slit Meredith's throat.

Amanda had pressed so hard on Meredith's face that she left her finger in print on Meredith's chin. So Meredith had some bruises on her face that were really small and the prosecutor just said it's clear that this is the work of a woman because it's so small, of a woman's fingers, when in reality it could have been from anything, it didn't even necessarily have to be from fingers. Meredith's body was covered by a blanket after she was murdered, and the prosecutor says only a woman would have done that.

So it must have been Amanda. The police said that they searched everywhere for what Amanda wore that night, the night of the murder, it was a striped sweater. Allegedly, it was nowhere to be found. Well, cough cough, the theory is that she got rid of it because it was blood soaked. Later, they do find this sweater. On Amanda's bed. And suddenly, this sweater with blood, the whole topic dropped off the face of the earth, never to be discussed again. Well, maybe in trial, it was brought up, and the prosecutor said, well, the reason that the Stripe sweater doesn't have blood is because Amanda had a boyfriend that worked at a laundry mat.

Who's Argentinian? And he washed her sweater without anyone knowing. The headlines were always along the lines of Amanda caught in a lie. Amanda can't keep stories straight. One time, oh, this is rich. The press claimed that Raphael and Amanda destroyed the hard drives on Raphael's computer, Amanda's computer, Philomina's computer, and even Meredith's computer. So they're saying that these, this couple went around to everybody's computer and destroyed the

hard drive so that you can't find what's on there anymore. But the truth was, the police collected everybody's computers, and while they were trying to access it, they fried the hard drives But it was reported falsely as if something shady was going on that it wasn't just the run of the mill extra ordinary police incompetence It was they got rid of the evidence or it gets worse. Yeah, I know So journalists reported that the police found receipts for bleach that was purchased the day after the murder. Disgusting Amanda, so guilty, who- who blight- who buys bleach? Oh my god, so scandalous! But Amanda never purchased any bleach in Perugia. So there's a lie.

And then the most shocking piece of news, the murder weapon has been found with DNA of the victim and arrested suspect Knox. A kitchen knife from Raphael's kitchen had a manned his DNA on the handle and the victim's DNA on the blade. Amanda's thinking, sure, I helped him cook dinner. I remember that specific knife. I used it to cut it to made it once, but why would the knife ever leave his apartment and Meredith has never been to his apartment?

This is so strange. Amanda asked her attorneys, how is this possible? Well, it's because the friends' ex-teens believe that it was capable of inflicting the wounds on Meredith's body. They say it's no longer Raphael's pocket knife, but rather his kitchen knife, a chef knife, with a black handle, a six-inch blade. The police officer who found the knife said, it was my investigative intuition. You know, it struck me as odd, as suspicious rather when I opened the drawer full of knives, this one was suspiciously clean. Sir, I don't know what your home kitchen knives look like, but that's gross.

You're done. You're done. I mean, it's a kitchen knife. It should be clean, right? And now they're saying that Amanda was the one that stabbed Meredith. But this was a game changer for her lawyers, because now they had this new fear. Now up until this point, they didn't really know, but now they knew. The prosecution was mishandling evidence, and using that to build an unsubstantiated

case against her. This means war. There's no right or wrong anymore. There's no playing by the rules. Their whole game had to shift. It went from believing that the lack of evidence against Amanda would set her free to know. There's no way that we can count on the prosecutors to even deliver justice. The lawyer told her and I quote, we're up against a witch hunt, but it's gonna be okay. The police also claimed that the

blood in the bathroom was Amanda's. They speculated that in the struggle of trying to kill Meredith, Amanda had been punched in the nose and that's why there was blood in the sink. Amanda said, if that is my blood in the sink, it's probably from my ear piercings. I have 11 ear piercings that I would take out to wipe them free of blood and sometimes it would bleed like droplets. So that makes sense. Once that news came out, the police went to prison, searched all of Amanda's belongings that she came in with and they found Amanda's journal. The one that she was writing in at the police station, the first day of interrogations, her private thoughts, her stream of consciousness,

everything. When she undoubtedly went through one of the most traumatic moments of her life, they were aired to the press and guess who got slapped with an invoice. Amanda was billed by the police who wanted to her to pay for the translation of the journal from English to Italian to leak to the press and to study. I just this is the press were ready to destroy her they started combing through old photos on my space Facebook some reporters would snap pictures of her outside the villa remember when the the crime scene initially took place where she was kind of cuddling with Raphael, not even cuddling. He had his arm around her, kind of

just supporting her through this crazy moment. And they built a whole creepy backstory behind him. Look at them. Look at them so satisfied, so happy, so turned on by what they did. How can you not even shed tears over your friend's death? How heartless can you be? Even after a murder they can't keep their hands off each other. They're addicted to the sadistic sex These are evil people psychopats Her my space page was leaked to the press remember her nickname was Foxy Noxie from her old soccer days But the reporters they took it and ran with it and they ran so hard that in Italian she was nicknamed the wicked Fox Which Fox and Korean is a commonly used phrase? and they ran so hard that in Italian, she was nicknamed the Wicked Fox.

Which Fox and Korean is a commonly used phrase, I don't know if it is in Italy, but I feel like it's not so much in the States, but it's not the nicest thing to say someone unless you know them well. It just means like you're very slick, kind of like two-faced, you know, you know how to play into your strengths.

Like that's what people mean by it. Over the next few months, no years. Amanda became not just the wicked fox, but Meredith's sadistic killer, a sadistic sexual psychopath and the whore of Perugia. A UK Daily Mail article read, Foxy Noxie, the girl who had to compete with her own mother for men. The reporter speculated that Amanda was mad and upset that her mom had remarried someone that was younger than her.

Younger than her mom, not younger than Amanda. That caused Amanda to feel rejected and it all led to Meredith's death. Amanda felt it was odd, considering on my space under the hero's section she listed her mom. But the reporter was saying that Amanda liked to try to sleep with like her mom's boyfriends essentially. What? The press was not ready to stop there.

They were getting viewership off this story, so they said, let's go harder. People loved hate watching Amanda Nux. We got to go even harder on this girl, so they start taking up other things. There was an old paper she wrote for a creative writing class about an older brother who was pissed off and confronted his younger brother for being a girl at a party. And this is a creative writing class. She's an author. Are we gonna just arrest every author that's written about sexual assault or murder as a

mystery novel or any novel? So they said, whoa, whoa, whoa, look at her, she's sick and twisted. Why even write about rape unless you wanna commit it? Any seductive picture that Amanda had ever taken, which by the way, she was 20 at this point so I can think of like a lot of pictures I might have taken before 20 that I would never want to get out, started making the rounds. But no pictures of her fresh face playing soccer got out. No fresh face photos of her enjoying her time with her family got out.

No opening Christmas presents got out. Nothing. Those never saw the light of day because journalist reporters pressed, they didn't freaking care. Those pictures don't get clicks. They wanted the picture where she had bright red lipstick on, her hair was messy and she was hanging out with boys. Even the sales team at the lingerie shop claimed that Amanda bought a red G string

after Meredith's death, but she had bought regular underwear. You know what makes it worse? You know how I said that she bought a red bikini bottom, like a bikini bottom is this SpongeBob? Like bikini bottoms, right? Like a bikini cut bottom. And they weren't just red. They had a cartoon cow on them. Like a freaking cow. Sure, that might be sexual to some people, I guess, but it's just not that clickable to write that. The horror of Perugia about sexy, saucy, seductress, tumtrous, BDSM, Dominic, Trix lingerie, with cute cartoon cows moving on it.

That doesn't sell. So they all started posting more photos of G-strings with her face next to them, and they all described Amanda as, an angel face with a demon soul, the face of an angel but the eyes of a killer. Amanda started getting hate male death threats people threatening to kill her own family. Some people wrote

her because they believe she was innocent. Some people wrote her because they liked the fact that she was a hypersexual homicidal maniac. That's what they said. Like I want to date you because you're seeing like a crazy person and that's hot. The police tried bizarre tactics to try to break her down. She randomly tested positive for HIV in the prison hospital. She was so shocked and the warden told her, maybe you should have thought about that before you slept with so many men. Amanda was devastated, but she thought at least maybe the warden wouldn't hit on her anymore. But he told her before she left, don't worry, I'd still have sex with you right now.

Promise me, you'll have sex with me one day. And Amanda was shocked. Is this really her life? She has HIV now on top of everything? Like what? She never had unprotected sex. This is so confusing. Why is her life like this?

And her lawyers told her, this is probably just another way to get you vulnerable. I believe she was later tested and was not HIV positive, but they said that if you're vulnerable, the last time you were vulnerable, you confessed. They want you to be malleable. They wanna do whatever they want with you. And then boom, someone else was arrested. The fourth suspect in the murder of Meredith, Rudy Gade. Now, the police found a bloody handprint

on Meredith's pillowcase that was in Amanda's or Raphael's or Patrick's. That's very unfortunate for their theory, don't you think? So they run the prince and it was a match to someone in their system by the name of Rudy. His fingerprints were in the system when he applied for a green card. Amanda was shocked. She's like, wait, I know that guy! I remember that guy, oh my god, it's him! He's the guy that Meredith and I met at the fountain with the downstairs roommates, the ones that were giggling around the table when I walked in. Remember we put our purses up and then we came back downstairs? Who the hell is he?

So he's 20 years old, he was abandoned by his family, and a very, very rich, perusion family had taken him in, treated him like their own son. And at first everything was great. Rudy was great at basketball, he was friendly, but slowly he started taking advantage of the family. He never wanted to work, He just wanted to hang out. So the family disowned him, and now that he was unemployed, with no place to live, he resorted to breaking into offices for stealing cash and electronics. Sometimes, he would throw rocks through the windows of law firms, to get inside.

It said that just a few days before Meredith's murder, Rudy was caught robbing a kindergarten director's office. Yeah, what the heck caught robbing a kindergarten director's office. Yeah, what the heck? A kindergarten or a director's office. When he was caught, the police searched his backpack. They found kitchen knives that he stole from the kindergarten office. Keys, a laptop stolen from a law firm, a woman's gold watch, a small hammer used to break the glass, for whatever reason.

Even with this literal bag of evidence, the police let him go. They didn't arrest him. So now that they have his handprint in Meredith's room, they tap his phone. Just like they did with Amanda and Rafael. And he was heard telling a friend of her Skype that he was there when Meredith was killed. Just like that?

Just like that. And he said, oh my god, what do you mean, Rudy? I was in the bathroom when it happened. I tried to stop it But I wasn't able to Amanda had nothing to do with this. I fought a guy, but she wasn't there It wasn't Patrick either because Patrick was an immigrant too. No, this guy was Italian He didn't have any accent at all. We insult to each other and Yeah, the friend is like holy shit is it's the other guy Italian boy friend.

Rafaiel, so listen to it's him. Did you fight him? He's a guy on TV. I think so, but I'm not sure. So quickly, Rudy has no idea that he's being wiretapped, he gets arrested, and he tells the police his version of events. Meredith had invited him over to the villa, they had been fooling around, but that night he felt sick, he had eaten some bad cababs, so he went to go use her restroom, he was listening to his iPod. But then he heard

through the music, Meredith screaming. He rushed out, left his poop in the bowl, in the toilet bowl. He saw the killer, it was a brown hair Italian man that he had never met before. So Rudy tried to help Meredith, but she had already been stabbed, and she was already dying. He tried to stop the blood with the towels and you know, of course, that's why his bloody handprints are all over the place. But then when he realized that she was dead, blood would be on his hands literally because you know, he hasn't he's been robbing places and all of these things, so he panicked and he left. Was he describing the boyfriend, the brown here dude? Yes, as Rafael. Oh, okay. So, uh, yeah.

Amanda's lawyers were like, that sounds a little ridiculous. They believed that Rudy was probably robbing the villa when Meredith came home and killed her. Soon after Rudy's arrest, Patrick was released. Because he said it's not Patrick. I know it's not because this guy didn't have a foreign accent and Patrick has a foreign accent. So Patrick was released and he went back didn't have a foreign accent and Patrick has a foreign accent. So Patrick was released and he went back to his wife

and his baby and what's crazy is that, sure, Rudy's version of events helped Patrick, but Patrick already had an iron clad alibi with the police didn't care at that point. Literally, tons of people were like, oh, I saw Patrick all the way over there. Like, people that didn't even have a reason to lie. Like his wife and his child, like other people, strangers.

But now that Rudy's arrest was public, they suddenly cared about justice. So they released Patrick and they said that it was all Amanda's fault. She had manipulated and lied about the situation through Patrick under the bus just so she could protect herself and potentially other people.

I mean, she's disgusting. After Patrick was released, Amanda said that she felt this huge burden was lifted. She had felt so much shame and guilt for what she had done. And honestly, it gave her hope. Rudy clearly stated that she wasn't there, so she would probably be released next, right? Her attorneys would soon crush her dreams.

Amanda, the prosecution has no intention of releasing you. They're just subbing in Rudy for Patrick. The prosecutor is saying that you named Patrick to try and cover for Rudy, that you were so good at manipulating in line that the police fell for it. They arrested the innocent father Patrick because of you, because you wanted to protect Rudy, otherwise there's no way that they could justify throwing this poor man into jail. And what made this story stick was that Patrick was pissed. I mean, rightfully so.

So he kind of lied. He said that he would never forgive Amanda for what she had done. She ruined him financially, emotionally. He claimed that he fired Amanda from Les Chic because she wouldn't stop flirting with the customers. But the truth was actually the opposite. She was always on the brink of being fired

because she kind of sucked at flirting with customers. So yeah, things were looking bad. But I can't get worse, right? It did. By a lot. An audio recording was leaked. Whenever Amanda had visitors, it was audio recorded. Well, right after it came out to the cops that they found Amanda's fingerprints on the murder weapon, her mom was reassuring her. The police have nothing on you at all, so they're trying to see if you'll say something. An Amanda said, and I quote, It's stupid, I can't say anything but the truth because I know that I was there. I mean, I can't lie about this, there's no reason to do it.

When she meant I was there, she meant Raphael's house. But the police edited out all the context. And of course, made it seem like Amanda was confessing that she was at the villa. The headlines were, tape puts knocks at Meredith's murder scene. Dramatic new evidence has emerged that may help prove that Amanda Knox, the American girl accused of murdering Meredith Kertcher, was present when the British student died. The blows didn't stop coming. The press released a picture of a blood-soaked bathroom.

You're like, wait a minute, Stephanie. You said two spots of blood in the sink, blood smeared on the faucet, and an orange-sized blood droplet on the bath mat. That's hardly drenched in blood, is it? Will the picture show their bathroom covered in a red shade? No, it wasn't photoshopped. It was red for a reason. The bathroom was sprayed with a chemical very similar to lumenol, but this chemical

reacts with certain bases and acids, not necessarily just blood. So after spraying the bathroom down, nearly every wall, every floor tile, everything turned red. And no, it wasn't blood. So they're like, gray photo. Yeah, just bloody photo. The press also knew that when a man to go home, there was blood in the bathroom and she showered.

They're seeing a picture of this bloody bathroom and they're thinking, how do you shower in all that blood unless you're guilty? How can you say, oh, I just thought nothing really happened when the whole bathroom is red in blood? How can you shower without calling the cops? How can you lie and say that there's barely any blood? Well, I guess the only reason to is if you're guilty, like Foxy, Nuxy. All the while Amanda is watching this happen on the TV news and she's devastated and to make matters worse. She noticed that one day the shower drain is blocked.

In the prison bathroom she's like, I can't even forget shower and the only person that was there to help her was the warden. But he was having a hard time understanding what she was saying about the shower drain, so we asked her to just show him in the bathroom. So she walks in there and once that bathroom door closes, he grabs her around the waist and tries to kiss her. She ducked, went stiff, and wiggled out of his arms and ran out of their shaking. She threw herself onto her bed in her cell and she knew that she couldn't report this.

He would say that she came onto him. That would be another headline. That she offered to have sex with him for better treatment in prison to get released from prison nobody would believe her. So she said she cried, not of sadness, but from a place of deep black anger. June of 2008, Amanda was finally formally charged with murder. Rudy changed his story and said that Amanda and Raphael were actually in the apartment that night. Amanda was devastated, but her attorneys were very happy.

They said, no, this is our chance to stand up and fight. We couldn't do anything until the trial happened. This is the moment we're waiting for. Everything's going to come out in trial. Raphael, as well, in prison, he realized what had happened and he wrote Amanda a letter that he was hurting to contact her, but everyone refused to let him write to her. But he realized he fucked up. He abandoned her. He submitted to the police pressure, supported their theory, and he said, I'm sorry, I still care about you. I think about you all the time. Amanda said it wasn't like a lovy, dovy message, but it was reassuring. She learned later that

his interrogation was just as horrible as hers. They didn't talk about the investigation, but they were both trying to be optimistic that they would be proven innocent. So now that the trials were going to start, Amanda was told that the prosecution, this is their version of events. She was finally told, and it's strange to say the least. They claimed that after Amanda met Rudy for the first time, they had a romantic relationship of sorts. Like, they weren't necessarily dating, but they were having sex. Of course, they were, because Amanda just has sex with everybody. But Rudy was obsessed with Amanda. Just like Raphael. Amanda has this way of seducing men and having them bend to her will and do what she's a temptress. She's the devil.

She's a siren. She was so good at tempting men like that, just a seductress. That night, November 1st, Amanda was with Raphael and they decided, hey, we're bored of doing the same thing over and over again. So bored of smoking weed and having sex. We need to do something bigger, something better. So they headed out to the basketball court, where they, by chance, run into Rudy and Amanda asked him, hey, you want to hang out at my place? When they get home, they realize that I'm married at this home. Now, here's what the prosecution claims. Is that Amanda hated Meredith, and she said that stupid bitches home. Let's show her. Let's get her to play with us.

A nasty dirty sex game. Amanda told Rudy to rip Meredith. Amanda was holding Meredith down, threatening her with a knife, while Meredith was being assaulted. The only downside in Amanda's eyes, the prosecution believes, was that she wanted to do this on Halloween night, an evil holiday, like a sacrifice a human ritual. But for some reason, it didn't end up happening and Amanda was disappointed it was done on November 1st.

What would be the motive for this heinous crime? Of course jealousy. You know, cause the prosecutors believe girls just hate other girls and they just want to like, cat fight it out. Meredith was smarter, prettier, more popular, more organized, less into drugs, less into sex, and Amanda hated her, wanted to ruin her and kill her. It said that Amanda, in her bathroom toiletry bag, had a vibrator. A bunny shaped vibrator, remember the gag gift?

And Meredith's friends even testified and they said, we can't help but wonder, why would she leave them out there where everyone can see them? Amanda was upset, you know, that she was so obsessed with sex, meanwhile Meredith wasn't, but Meredith was the center of all the guys' attention. All the guys wanted Meredith, who was prettier. Maybe Meredith was even uncomfortable with Amanda's sexual quote, easiness. Maybe at one point Meredith even insulted Amanda, So it's easy to imagine Amanda thinking, oh you think you're a little saint?

Well we'll show you. Now you have no choice but to have sex. Meredith was forced onto her knees, Rudy was to her left, Raphael came up behind her unclassed her bra. Amanda was in front of Meredith holding her at knife point and that's how it happened. Their whole theory was littered. Every sentence, every phrase was pretty much one can assume. It's possible that. Essentially, this was very

offensive to I think all women because the whole thing was like one can assume that this girl hated this girl because she was prettier. One can assume this girl hated this girl because she was more sexually free. So, just what? They even had a computer generated 3D animation of what they believed happened with avatars that looked just like the killers. So this is a lot of times in court they will do like these 3D animations, but it's almost like mannequin figures. Because once you put a face to that avatar,

which by the way they edited all of the faces to look just like Amanda, Rudy, and Raphael, and they were smirking the whole time. The defense tried to object this from being shown to the jury, but the judge overruled it and allowed it. The defense requested forensic tests on all the raw data. Like they said, we want to know how many swabs were collected, how many cotton pads were used, how often did the team change gloves, what tests were done, and how many times. So in a lot of countries and a lot of situations, sometimes you'll test positive for this DNA.

But there's 100 tests, and like 99 of them did not test positive. They're just testing, testing, testing until maybe they get the result that they want. Maybe not so much with DNA, because that's a lot harder, but other things, right? Other situations, hypotheticals, all of these things. So they just want the full raw data. What machines did you use? What are the original unedited results of the DNA tests instead of just saying it was a match,

like what percentage of the match? And the police responded to the defense saying, no, you can't have those because the ones we already gave you are pretty good. So the defense complain to the judge, who said, fine, we'll have a third party go over the results. Guess who the third party was?

The head of the police for N16. How is that third party? We don't know. And Shucker, he said all the reports were done phenomenally. Perfect. Fantastic. Magnificent. After the pre-trial hearings, Rudy believed

that Raphael and Amanda would collude against him. So he decided to fast track his trial and he was found guilty of sexual assault and the murder of Meredith Kertcher. He was sentenced to just 30 years in prison. What did he fast track? So he wanted to have a separate trial. And they just made it super quick. Like he didn't even come up with like a crazy defense. He didn't try to fight it. He was just like, yeah, I did confess. That is what happened. Now, allegedly, the prosecution was just getting started.

When Amanda got back to prison, no one would make eye contact with her. Everyone hated her. This is strange. Why are people that she was cordial with suddenly hating her? Everyone slapped down a newspaper and said, how do you explain this? You were talking about us with your mom, and she leaked it to the press. Your mom needs to shut her mouth. So there were very specific details of other inmates that Amanda had talked about with

her mom that were now in papers and they were naming the inmates by name and you know what they say snitches get stitches. So Amanda was shocked but she knew her mom would never do something like that. Her lawyers assumed and believed that the police had done it, that they had taken those audio recordings they had used it to really alienate Amanda in prison right before the trial. Now in the trial starts, in Italy, civil and criminal trials are combined. So on the state side, we have Amanda being tried for murder, illegally carrying a knife, theft, simulating robbery and slander, six charges, which she was also being sued by Meredith's family for $6.4 million, and by Patrick for Slander, as well as the owner of the villa for damages

and lost rent. And nobody tries to be unbiased during it. When Amanda walked in, her first day of court, she saw all her aunts and uncles who traveled from the United States from Germany all over the world to support her, who left everything who left their jobs to support her. And she smiled and waved at them like thank you so much for supporting me. And the journalist all jotted down. Amanda made her entrance like a Hollywood diva sacheting along the red carpet waving and

smiling. The trial commences. Filomena testified. She did reassure the jury that Meredith and Amanda never had a fight or a falling out, but when it came to the topic of drugs, she implied that Amanda was the druggy. Laura testified and said that she saw a mark on Amanda's neck the day that Meredith died. It was a hickey. Then the next day, Amanda wore a shirt that had big writing on it, all you need is love from the Beatles song. And the press asked the public a pressing question, how manipulative

is this? Does Amanda's shirt mean that all she needs is love from the jury? Is that what she's asking? Is this what she's trying to do? Manipulate the jury. Isn't these journalists job manipulating the people? Yeah, and also I just hate the word manipulate Associated with woman all the time like really she's just manipulative. She's just wearing a shirt, bro It's just a shirt calm down. I mean, there is a lot of sexism involved in this case, not just that word, but just making her seem like a whore because she had slept with like two people in Italy,

really, are you kidding me? And it just, they also said, and I quote, knocks his narcissistic pleasure at catching the eye of the media. And her apparent nonchalant attitude during most of the proceedings shows the signs of a psychopathic personality. Now remember the head of the police, the bully? So she testified and she said, we did our jobs perfectly all the time. We didn't hit Amanda. We were the good guys.

But her nasty personality kind of came out when she was cross-examined. The defense attorney asked, well were you guys wearing gloves at the crime scene? Were they sterilized gloves or one-time use gloves? So that's the same thing. Okay, so by one use gloves, you mean the gloves were only used once, right? Obviously. Therefore, it means that every time you touch an object, you change the gloves. No, it means that I put them on when I enter the crime scene before I touch objects, which is what I did.

But therefore, with the same gloves, without changing gloves, you touched various objects in the room in the course of the search. Yes, isn't that obvious? So they're saying, you should have changed gloves then. She also testified that since the moment she laid eyes on Raphael and Amanda, they couldn't take their hands off each other. That they were absolutely indifferent to everyone, that they were in the police station waiting room,

sprawled on the seats, kissing each other, making faces at each other. They talked under their breath, and she said she noticed their behavior because it seemed impossible. That these two kids thought to kiss each other when the body of their friend had been found in this type of condition.

She also claimed that the story that Amanda was giving them, her version of November 1st, was improbable. How is two college students spending the night watching movies and having sex never been done before? How is that improbable? How is that such a crazy, she's saying like, whatever she said she did November 1st just doesn't make sense. So she's lying.

She said she watched a movie and had sex. How does that not make sense? So everyone was like, what? Nobody ever abused Amanda in questioning. We were all super nice to her. We brought her tea. I myself brought her down to get something to eat in the morning. She, Amanda, was the one that came in and started acting weird, accusing people.

At first she denied being in the villa the night of the murder, but when we called her out for it, she started blaming someone else, Patrick. She also did yoga in the waiting room. I was astonished. I saw her do a cartwheel, a bridge, and the splits. Huff. Just a full-on Cirque du Soleil. Now, one of the star witnesses was, um, a neighbor, an old neighbor, who said that she heard Meredith's blood-curdling scream in the middle of the night,

and the sound of crunching feet on the gravel coming from the village driveway, so when running away, around 11pm at night. Well, why 11pm you ask? She always wakes up to pee at 11pm. She was sure of this without a shadow of doubt. Except it's a little weird. The driveway wasn't even gravel, it was dirt. So how could you hear this sound of gravel crunching? That's a very specific sound, sounds nothing like stepping on dirt. I mean, footsteps, sure, but not that. Also, it's shocking that they use this information, because after finding Meredith's body, the police failed to take her temperature. At least for the first few hours, they completely wasted their shot at trying to establish a

time of death. The best way to do that after the temperature is to examine the contents of our stomach. See where in the digestion process it was, right? So it's not as reliable, but it doesn't indicate that she probably died around 9-10 pm. So she had dinner at 6 pm with her friends, and the food had not passed her small intestines yet. So how do you hear a scream at 11 pm if she died an hour earlier? I mean, it completely contradicts the whole neighbor's testimony.

So the prosecutors ignore science and state that Meredith was killed at 11.30pm. Yes, ignore science. Based the whole time of death on an old lady's nightly pee routine, that's exactly how it should be done, and it gets worse. The defense asked, well what did you do the next morning? I went out around 11am to buy bread, and I saw posters of Meredith's face all over the newsstands. Amanda's attorneys thought it was weird because Meredith's body was in found till 1 p.m. Oh my god. So those posters just from the future? She

snapped at them. I don't remember these things, these hours, these things. I don't remember them anymore. That was a long time ago. But the prosecutors are basing so much of this case around her memory, and then the prosecutors brought out a star witness. A star witness that has been used in many cases. He was used in the monster of Florence's case. He was being used again. This was his third case working with prosecutor M. Are you kidding me? It's his full-time job at this point, just witnessing crimes. He testified that he a complete stranger saw Amanda and Raphael arguing with each other and looking over the fence of the villa around

930 to 1 in the morning. How can you be so sure it was Amanda and he said, oh, I gotta look at her besides, I'll never forget that gap in between her front teeth. Amanda excitedly got up, gave a big smile, and sure enough, no gap. And the star witness said, oh I guess she doesn't have it anymore. Patrick testified and it was pretty heartbreaking. He talked about how when he was 10 his dad was kidnapped and he never saw him again and he was thrown in prison. So he was terrified his kid would never see him again and his story was repeating itself.

After he got out, his pub was shut down for three months, nobody was lining up to go, and he was ruined financially. And it seemed like all of those statements he made were from his lawyers, because he did not bash a man at all. He just said that she wasn't the best waitress, but she was a nice person. He said that in court. Yeah. Wow. Amanda went on to testify and it was a huge deal because Raphael wasn't testifying, which honestly a pretty good choice on his part. The police didn't even care for Raphael. He was just a pawn. They wanted Amanda.

That's all they cared about. So Amanda got on to the stand and her interpreter was the same one at the police station. No way. Yeah. So Amanda asked to speak in Italian. She had spent two years every day in prison prison 16 hours a day studying Italian for this very moment. And she told everything.

She said during the interrogation, there were people around me yelling, threatening, she smacked my head down two times. The police were shouting at me, I squeezed my brain thinking, what have I forgotten? Why did I forget this? They kept telling me, come on, you gotta remember, you gotta remember. And then boom, you have to remember, you have to! They were screaming and overall, the testimony went...well! And then more good news.

Amanda's attorney finally got the full forensic reports. There was no blood found on the murder weapon. No blood. There was evidence of potato starch. But that was it. There was so little DNA present that they couldn't even get valid results. How could they do this? Amanda doesn't understand.

She's asking her attorneys and they tell her, listen, these are small town detectives. They chase local drug dealers that they can beat up, foreigners without visas. They don't know how to conduct a murder investigation and their bullies. To admit fault is to admit they're not good at their jobs, and they're not going to do that. They're sticking with these crazy theories because they can't afford to be wrong. Rather, their egos can't afford to be wrong. Besides, the prosecutor has a habit, or has a fun little hobby of arresting people

that disagree with him. Remember Mario's fancy? The monstralager? Yeah. Even with this, the judge refuses to let Amanda go and denies their request to annul the trial, so the trial still commences. I mean, the absurdity of the investigation is starting to show. Firstly, the knife doesn't even match the crime scene.

The knife is too wide to have been possible to inflict some of the major wounds on Meredith. The knife was also double the depth of Meredith's wounds, which means let's say you're friendsily attacking someone and stabbing them. Typically, what the statistics show and what evidence shows is you go all the way down the depth of the knife because it's really hard to stab someone. But they said that the knife was stopped halfway. Every single time to the thousandth of an inch. How can they be so precise? So if your blade is six inches long and it was always like 3.25 inches deep. Yeah, every single time. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Come on.

Come on. That just proves that's not the weapon. Yeah, but they were like, no, they just stopped it halfway. They found no blood on the knife. They did find Meredith's DNA, but the defense also found that there was a ton of contamination in the evidence. So if Meredith's DNA was found on the knife, it was due to contaminating the evidence,

and it wasn't even blood. It's just like DNA that was not blood. Maybe a hair sample, you know, maybe a skin sample, it wasn't blood. So it just felt like they opened a drawer and picked a choosing of a murder weapon. Remember, it's because the police said he had investigative intuition. Why didn't you guys look at Rudy's apartment for any knives? Were any of those tested? No.

The prosecutor tried to turn the whole thing around, and they said because Amanda's DNA was found in the bathroom, that she shared, because she paid rent and lived there, she must be the killer. The defense also said, in Meredith's body and the room, you guys found Rudy's DNA. A lot of Rudy's DNA, he doesn't even live there,

but you found none of Amanda and Raphael's. But they're there all the time. How does that make sense? And the prosecutor said, they wiped it clean. How do you do that? DNA does not say DNA on there. So how would I know what's my DNA? So I just like knew how to do that.

Just wipe this section and all remember to leave rooties. Just wipe all of ours magically. Slowly, even some of the journalists and reporters were coming around opening their eyes, and they believe now that maybe the prosecutor was wrong. But not by a lot, because TV polls suggested that more than 60% of Italians believed Amanda to be guilty. And I don't blame the Italians, because this is what the press was feeding them. And honestly, I'm sure the rest of the world they were upset because at the end of the

day, Meredith Kerture lost her life. So you're gonna be mad. You should be. I mean that's why true crimes important. You should be mad for these victims. So yeah, maybe you're upset. But I really blame the price, the prosecutors, the police. This is horrible. But the prosecutors had a backup plan just in case to shield themselves with the victim's family. They put out a statement. They said that Amanda Knox and her team of attorneys are like a mob, a mafia, bullying everyone into believing her innocence, and their lawyers are spending all their time trying to confuse the jury and the public, but all they're doing is prolonging the pain for the curture family.

An Amanda and Rafael, they're blaming and accusing poor Rudy as being the only one to attack Meredith. Sure, he has his own responsibility, but the responsibility is not his own. Amanda was so stressed she thought, what the hell I thought we were making process. Her hair started falling out in clumps. She had panic attacks, low energy, mood swings, and her attorneys were preparing her. You're gonna be sentenced. But we're gonna appeal it.

It might be taken to Supreme Court, but that's gonna be another five years in prison. Amanda was shocked. There's no way. I'm innocent. They're gonna see that in this trial. How could they not? So after closing statements, Amanda made a speech, so did Raphael, saying that they would never hurt anyone. Amanda still had faith in the justice system, like a lot of people. She went back to her cell and she told her cellmate, when I'm gone, I want you to have my bed sheets. December 4th of 2009, it was time for the verdict. Amanda's whole family was there to support her. She said that she could almost taste the freedom. But on the six counts against the two, The defendant's Raphael and Amanda were found guilty.

No. Amanda started sobbing. She was sentenced to 25 years in prison. Raphael to 25 years, or she was sentenced to 26, Raphael to 25, and the prosecution wasn't content. They wanted life. But they were nowhere near as distraught as Amanda and her camp. Amanda was so distraught, she was carried out of the court room. She was immediately taken to prison and placed onto a sidewalk. She had never attempted to commit suicide, but the prison believed she's got a pretty good reason to try about right now. You know, like, we gotta watch her. Amanda was confused.

She felt like she was already dead. She did the math. She'd be 48 when she gets out. Her only request, and I think even the guards kind of took sympathy for her because the guards witnessed the trial. And she had been a model person or all throughout this time so I feel like even they were thinking wait a minute this weird and I'm sure the guards have a good idea of how the police run things right so some of them are like do you need anything and she said can I just be moved

to a two-person cell please so she was sharing a cell with like three other people she's like please they took sympathy on her and they actually moved her in with a fellow American who was arrested for smuggling in cocaine, but it wasn't even her fault. Her boyfriend was a drug dealer that she didn't know and he had lined all of her stuff with cocaine like in her jacket and they went to Italy together

and she was arrested and she was like, what the fork? I don't even do cocaine. Oh my God. I mean, just that, that story alone too. Yeah. Oh man. So they really bonded. They were able to make each other laugh.

She even taught Amanda the ways of prison, how not to get beat up essentially. There was a foundation in contact with Amanda who believed in her innocence. They sent her a book every month, like just books to read. They somehow convinced the prison to let her use an iPad or an iPod that they gifted her with to listen to music. And a little while into the police, the prison's day, Amanda was escorted into an office to sign a document. She thought it was nothing.

There's a lot of documents to sign when you were sentenced. But when she got there, she was outraged. She was being sued first slander by police officers. Because she told the court they slapped her. She was accused of slandering a total of 12 officers. And all she could think was, will they ever leave me alone? Incredibly, a month later, Prosecutor M. was convicted of abusive office for his part in the monster of Florence

case. He was accused of having used his authority to intimidate and manipulate people, but the damage was done. Amanda was in prison. I mean, she wasn't suicidal, but she did say she contemplated the ways on how she would do it. Her mom noticed her changing. She wrote to her, you're changing Amanda, you're not sunny anymore.

I hope when you get out, you can go back to being the happy person you were. Amanda wrote back mom. Good things don't always work out for good people. Sometimes shit happens for no reason and there's nothing you can do about it. This part is so sad. Her stepdad, that her mom remarried, was so sweet. He was the only one in the family that could work remotely, so he moved to Perugia for months at a time time just so he could see her two terms a week. Amanda's grandma would light a candle at all the family gatherings and they would pretend that it's Amanda, and she would call Amanda and joke to her. Look at how crazy we're all are.

We light the candle and we pretend you're a freaking candle. Can you believe it? In all of Amanda's free time, she reread all 407 pages of the court reports, the judges notes, one of Amanda's friends found a psychologist in New York that specialized in false confessions and he got in contact with Amanda and she was able to finally kind of heal because she had carried so much guilt and shame. But he told her, your situation is literally textbook police manipulation. Like it's not you, it's not that your week,

it's not that you're a bad person, it's literally genuinely, you were so exhausted to the point that you believed that this happened. They were planting these seeds, you just wanted to get out of there, you would do anything to get out of there. So finally, the peel was going to take place and Amanda was ready.

She was ready to start forgiving herself and she had learned a lot. Like I think up until she was sent, she was still so naive. Just so naive. And she even says that herself. That's not my opinion. But after that, she just grew so much she had to. She learned. She knew not to smile at her family when she walked into the court. She gave them a curt, you know, half smile, not really. She had lost so much weight that the guards yelled at her to eat more, and at the opening of the pretrial, Amanda stood up, and she worked on this statement for weeks, in Italian, with no translator. And she addressed Meredith's family.

She said to Meredith's family and loved ones, I want to say I'm so sorry that Meredith is not here anymore. I can't know how you feel. But I too have sisters, and the idea of their suffering and infinite loss terrifies me. I also remember Meredith and my heart aches for all of you. Meredith was kind, intelligent, nice and always accommodating. I'm grateful and honored to have been able to be in her company and I've been able to know her. She turned to Patrick and said, Patrick, I don't see you, so he was hiding behind his attorneys. And she said, but I'm sorry.

I'm sorry because I didn't want to wrong you. I was very naive and not remotely courageous. I should have been able to endure the pressure that pushed me to wrong you. I didn't want to contribute to all that you've suffered. You know what it means to have unjust accusations imposed on your skin. You didn't deserve what you went through. I hope you'll finally succeed in finding your peace. And her speech is in the book.

She said that this is the most exhausting 17 minutes of her life. That she had, yeah, ever experienced more than the police interrogation. This speech, because she had put her heart and her soul into it. And while they were waiting for the pre-child hearings, a higher court had approved Rudy's reduced 16-year sentence. He would actually only end up serving 13 years.

He was really slight two months ago. No freaking way. Yeah, Freyman. The judge concluded that this case was complex enough to reopen because so what she was facing is that after this appeal either they can shut it down immediately or they can go through the whole process again and either uphold her sentence like no you're gonna keep the same sentence or they could free her immediately or they could give her life which is the max. So it's a big risk for her. So they started essentially doing another trial.

They brought in that star witness on every case, including the monster of Florence case. And he confidently told his testimony again, and he said, yeah, I was at the basketball court, and I distinctly remember a ton of people like in costumes and stuff. You saw them and you saw a bunch of people in costumes. That's Halloween. That's not the night of the murder. And he was like, no, it was November 1st, I guess people were like wearing it the next day too.

And they're like, that doesn't make any sense. Nobody does that. Why would a whole group of people do that? You also said that you saw people get off buses, but the buses weren't running November 1st. Literally, you can check with the city. They weren't running November 1st, it's a National holiday.

So finally, May of 2011, at this point Amanda had already spent three and a half years in prison. The judges said that they needed time to go over the evidence and come to their conclusion. But they were excited. Meanwhile, while they're waiting on that, a man named Mario comes forward. Now Mario is a very shady dude. He was arrested for murdering an infant in 2006, but he reached out to Raphael's lawyers and said that Mario was in the same prison as Rudy, and Rudy told him that he was with one of his other friends, and he had essentially broken it.

Like he didn't say that he broke in, but it's like implied that he broke into the villa to steal from the girls, but Meredith came home and they tried to get her to have a threesome. She rejected and tried to kick them out, threatened to call the cops, and they assaulted her. So there's one more person. And they killed her. Yes, but that guy will never be arrested. Because nobody's talking? Yeah. So Rudy told this little prison and made all of this and they told the lawyers. Now, of course, this is not evidence, right? But it makes sense because there was an unnamed, like a unverifiable DNA at the scene

which didn't belong to any of them, but it was another person. Rudy's DNA was all over the crime scene. It made sense. So Mario claims he told Rudy, you have to tell the prosecutors the truth because there's two innocent people in prison because of you and he said,

no, they're not in prison because of me. They're in prison because the prosecution sucks at their job. Let this guys announce we hate him, yeah. But technically, this was just another story. I mean, it sounded plausible, it made a lot of sense, but it meant nothing unless Rudy testified. So when he gets to testify at the appeal trial, he said, uh, the horrible murder of a splendid

and wonderful girl was by Rafael Solucito and Amanda Knox. Because Rudy would be in a worse situation. He wouldn't get out. He wouldn't get his reduced sentence if he admitted that it wasn't them. Because he had lied through his teeth throughout all of this. And honestly, that situation is a lot worse. This unnamed friend you broke into her apartment, you're the one that knew the girls. You brought your friend here.

Like the disgusting. Amanda felt disgusted, but later that week she heard that she might have a chance a going home It was all over the TV the unreliable forensic reports evidence had been contaminated Amanda burst into tears and hugged her roommate so hard Who said oh Amanda you're gonna pop my implants? Amanda was hopeful but she wanted to be realistic, so she started journaling. Three lists. Things to do if I'm not freed and I get out in 25 years.

Stay in touch with friends and family. Earn five years off for good behavior. Get a prison job. Send earnings back to family to help pay my parents back. Hopefully graduate, and then the list if she was freed. Move into an apartment with a friend, graduate from college, visit her former Selmaid the American. She was released, she said,

visit former Selmaid, was your own name. Right, get married one day and start a family. Pay my family back. And then one list for if she got life. Stop writing letters home. Ask friendly and friends to forget me. And the last word was suicide. Question mark. And the raw emotions of something like this is not something that I can even begin to describe. It's not something that I've gratefully ever come close to

experiencing and I'm not eloquent enough to even tell you how Amanda felt. I think you need to read her book above all because this part, the way she describes how she felt, it was so raw and vulnerable, I was moved to tears so many times. I mean, this very moment was life-changing for her to say the least. And I don't think we'll ever experience something like this. Not that we want to, but just, you know. So the judge announced for the charges. The defendants are acquitted by the court for not having committed the acts. The crowd erupted, somewhere cheering, somewhere booing. Amanda was in shock all the way till she was escorted downstairs to the waiting room. She was reunited with Raphael who held her hand and she was sobbing and he said, But Amanda, it's okay, don't cry. We're going home and I'll come visit you in Seattle one day.

And he did. The guards told her, you done well little girl, you won me my bet. So the guards were betting on her. They said, go run upstairs, grab your things, go run, hurry. And when Amanda ran through the prison the women in the cells they were cheering her on and they were chanting Amanda freedom, Amanda, freedom and she said on her way out she ran through the holes touching everybody's hands through the bars like a marathon runner and when she got out her attorneys had a black tinted Mercedes ready to pick her up. They had arranged this ride before the verdict.

That's how much they believed in her. They had her safe house waiting for her at Rome, and she was going to fly out to Seattle the next day. Even in this car, there was a high-speed chase with reporters, paparazzi journalists tailing them. The police did not help Amanda stepped stepped at, actually got rear ended, because she was trying to swerve, like, in front of the paparazzi, to catch them off their lead, and he got into a car accident.

They got to the rented townhouse in Rome, and her whole family was so exhausted they knocked out, but Amanda was so excited she couldn't fall asleep. She just kept writing in her journal. I'm not in prison. I'm not in prison. The next in prison the next day she rushed on to the plane and her parents kept joking with her stop speaking Italian we don't understand speak English but she just like defaulted into saying things in Italian once Amanda got back home to Seattle she spent all her time channeling that energy that trauma into writing her book and it took a long time. She used her diaries, her letters. She graduated from the University of

Washington in 2014. The book advance helped pay her back, her family back in full. But it wasn't all peaches. Some students from her college classes would post pictures of her online and say in class with a murderer. So even with her quiddle, was she really free? I mean, Raphael wrote his own book too, and he visited Seattle, and there was a huge party that Amanda's party or a family through. And in the book, Raphael referred to himself as Mr. Nobody, and Amanda, being like an empathetic person, she asked, why would you write that about yourself? And he said, because I don't think the prosecution or police ever seriously thought of me, everything was done to pressure me

and to testifying against you. The press called me Amanda's little boyfriend. I was Mr. Nobody. And then it happened again. January 2014, the Florence Court found Rafael and Amanda guilty. What? The new theory was not the sexual motive, but that Amanda and Meredith got into a fight about money. Wait, what do you mean? You can recharge someone? Yeah, somehow it led to Rudy Raphael

in Amanda killing Meredith. And now they were sentencing her to not 25 years, but to 28.5 years in prison. But it did not go the way that they planned. I think that they just thought that this was gonna get them some approval. The Florence Quart, because everybody came out and was like, no, you stupidity it. Even former judges came out and said, what you are saying is a script for a movie or a thriller book. You're not considering evidence and facts.

The trial was set for 2015, Amanda was terrified. But thankfully, before the trial started, they were acquitted. Amanda got married to a man named Christopher Robinson, who is a poet and an author and a co-host of their podcast. They are now parents. Amanda's very active on social media, and she's honestly a very like, okay, I know sometimes she has been in some hot water

for her controversial tweets about a, there was like a tweet that she made when Donald Trump was elected into office and she said the next four years can't be worse than my study abroad in Italy. And people thought that was very insensitive, which it was, right? But she, other than that moment, she has a tendency to take things with stride. Like she's not there, she works with the innocent parts, she has a tendency to take things with stride. She's not there, she works with the innocent pro, she's not there like complaining and like demanding things.

She's actually out there like trying to change the world. She works with the innocent project, which is a nonprofit that you guys have probably heard about, I've talked about it a lot, they just help people that have literally been convicted and charged with no reason. Usually it's false confessions, coerced confessions, and they're trying to get them out of prison. What is this about? A lot of the times, DNA isn't even a match. So they were arrested long, long time ago,

and now that DNA evidence is a thing, and now that DNA technology exists, they run the DNA. It's not a match to who's in prison, but they're like, eh, let's just keep them in prison. Anyways, that was my rant. So she's an activist, and author, a podcaster. I really like their podcast so far.

I'm only like a couple episodes in, but I have a feeling I'm gonna like binge it right after Christmas and like all through the new year. It's really, really good. A lot of compassionate interviews. I just like the way they carry themselves. Raphael, he's has stayed in Italy since then. He says he has nothing to be ashamed of. He wrote a book.

He's working on another writing project, he works in IT and he is trying to develop an app, a travel app he got engaged in 2019. And as you know, Rudy has, oh, an Amanda Knox is a mother. And she's very public about her miscarriage experience, which I always think is very good to have an open topic about that, but she's a mother. Yeah, she's gonna be a great mom.

And Rudy was released in 2021. It only served 13 years. And that is the story of Amanda Knox. It's wild, it's intense, and I don't even know how this all happened. It also makes me think, is it really, have we really changed though as humans? Have we really evolved? Because people, like I see on red at the conversation of, well, this would never happen now. We're all woke now. We're all, you know, better now. We would never, we would never shame her for being sexually open. We wouldn't do that. We'd call out

the media. But would we really, I mean, look at some of the ways that we drag down people. I feel like it could easily happen again. Just something to think about. But I hope you guys enjoyed, and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye.