Rotten Mango - #147: The Bodies In The Abandoned Mine (Case of Alice & Gerald Uden)

Episode Date: March 16, 2022

The gas station attendant was helping him fill up his car. What timing. It was a hot summer’s day, the sweat trickled down his forehead, and he was anxious to get going. The two of them stood awkwardly at the back of his truck waiting for his tank to get full. Drip. Drip. Drip. “Sir, I think your car is leaking.” They both looked down to see a red liquid drip down onto the pavement. The gas attendant didn’t know that there were 3 bodies in the trunk - and the driver was going to keep it that way. Book Rec: “Alice & Gerald” - by Ron Franscell (an amazing author who really dives deep into the emotions of a case) Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rambles. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay to description starting at $12.99 per month. Butta being better boot.

Welcome to this week's main episode of Rotten Mingo. I'm your host, Stephanie Sue. Now the guy pulls up into a gas station. I'm just dropping you right into the middle of it. His truck was filled to the brim in the back. Of course, on a day like this, he would run out of gas. He had places to be. He had very, very important things to do, and now here he is at the gas station pumping gas. He hops out of his car and starts pumping.

Except no gas is coming out. The damn pump is jammed. Shoot. Okay, I think I can make it to the next gas station. I have been here way too long for my comfort, but before he could jump back into his car and leave, the Teenage employee runs out, sir! I can help you with that. Damn it. They choose now to be the damn employee of the month. Okay, no, it's fine. It's fine. I'll just go to a different one. No, no, it's fine, sir. I'll help you.

It's only a jammed pump. The Teenageur not only helped fix the jam pump, but he stood there and pumped the man's gas for him. How considerate! They both stood there in silence. A little bit uncomfortable. They were strangers after all. And the gas attendant looked down. Crip. Crip. Crip. Oh, sir, your car is leaking. Uh, don't worry about it. It's transmission fluid, and I actually have to go right now to get it fixed. He jammed a tip into the gas attendant's hands and he brushed off.

Drip, drip, drip. With every inch that he drove in broad daylight, the blood went drip. The blood of the three bodies he had stuffed into his truck. As always, full show notes are available at ronminglepodcast.com, but there is a really good book on this called Alice and Gerald, a homicidal love story. It's like, what else do you wanna read at night

when you're cozying up in bed? It's by the author Ron Fransell, which, listen, this author has a way of just captivating you into a story. I've read one of his other books The Darkest Night. You just feel so many emotions. I mean, just everything for the people involved, for the whole story itself, you get so emotionally invested, I highly recommend reading his books.

I mean, all of them are incredibly well researched, and the passion that he puts into it is out of this world. The author spent more than 18 months talking to Gerald for this book. Gerald even wrote dozens and dozens of letters to the author talking about the crimes, what had taken place his early life, and sometimes even his innermost private thoughts. So let's get into the story. You know the school, but did you know there's a tiny town called Harvard? Did you know? It's in the middle of Nebraska and when I say tiny town, I mean it, their population is 979 residents. It was even smaller when

jailed Yudon was born. I think there were only like 774 people there and if you go onto their website right now now the front page says Home in the heartland in this small Nebraska community. You'll find neighbors helping strangers and the true definition of the good life I thought the home page say sorry wrong website The home page is like we're known for a serial killer actually So I guess I could be some sick foreshadowing of today's story. Gerald Newton really had a good life. I mean, very similar to most of the Harvard residents,

it was quaint, it was cute, his family was super tight-knit, they did everything together. They went fishing, eating, going to church, everything together. They were the type of people that would invite anyone in with welcome arms. As long as you were white. Yes. It's not us. And if you were a full-fledged member of the patriarchy, and you believe that men should be the leaders and women should just shut the fork up and make a sandwich,

you're welcome into their house. So yeah, they're that type of family. They would gladly open their doors to help a neighbor in need. Now, it's crazy because his family was so unashamed to be racist too. I mean, you would think that they were almost in competition to outdo one another. They considered it their full personality trait. Are you catching what I'm picking up?

Gerald's not gonna be a great guy. So naturally, his family teaches him how to play with guns at a young age. And not in the admirable we hunt our food and use every part of the animal. So naturally, his family teaches him how to play with guns at a young age. And not in the admirable we hunt our food and use every part of the animal this is our show to appreciate the land and mother nature and the food that we had. No, they just let him shoot at bird's nest. Every time he shot down a bird, they gave him a penny.

They didn't even need to eat. They just left the dead bird there. This is when he's only six years old. He's just using birds as shooting practice. He was obsessed with guns. Now oddly enough, you would think that his parents are nowhere near involved in his life then. I mean, what kind of kid is allowed to do this? But they weren't completely lawless. They would tell Gerald all the time that if you ever find yourself in trouble, we're gonna be on the side with the cops. We're not gonna be on your side. Oh yeah. So they told Gerald don't ever drink, don't

ever curse, those are signs of ignorance. But racism is not. What? So Gerald's parents never ever fought in front of the kids. They thought it would be bad for them. So they're kind of a confusing mix. At 17 years old, Gerald decides he's got to run away. His dream was to run off to someplace in Nebraska and become a cowboy. How fun would that be? First of all, you get to be alone. Second of all, you get to shoot guns. Third of all, you don't have to take shit from anybody.

And the boots! The boots are good! They're great even! There was one thing holding him back. His shitty car. He actually gets into the car. He's packed his bags. He's runnin' away.

He's drivein' off. And his car breaks down in the middle of the road while he's driving towards the Rockies. Which by the way, nothing's there. Like there's no reason for him to be going in that direction. His car breaks down. He calls his dad. His dad picks him up.

He has to move his bags of clothes into his dad's car. I mean, it's a dead silent in the car. His dad knew exactly what he's trying to do. He was trying to run away. Gerald broke the silence and just said, I didn't know. And his dad, so calm, didn't even raise his voice. Well, next time, you best just keep on going. So Gerald threw those runaway dreams on the back burner and he decided to join the Navy instead. That's where he learned to swim. He qualified as a sharpshooter. He loved guns. Before he even got there, but in the Navy, oh, he learned all the necessities. He

became a gun expert. He could identify most guns on site. He knew their pricing how to load each one he loved it. He felt like he saw the world while he was with the Navy. He did about four years there and when he gets out, I mean the guy is so lost. Like he went to the Navy when he was 17, now he's what 22 and when he was to do with his life, it's not the easiest thing to get a job where they might need a sharpshooter. It's very, you know, you think your local grocery store cares that you're a sharpshooter? So you just wanted to live this normal life.

You wanted to have a wife, maybe a job, maybe both of you is lucky. Honestly, he had no idea what he was looking for. So he found himself joining his family in Wyoming. So they had taken up and moved to Wyoming from Nebraska and he took up a job in a mine where he would be paid $2.29 an hour working in a mine. One of the most dangerous jobs ever. When was this? In like the 60s I believe. Okay. Now back to the story, Gerald would work 40 hours a week and during the weekend he did the one thing that he loved. He would go hunting. He would shoot down birds, rabbits elk prairie dogs anything that moved would be and used as target practice

He didn't even use all the praise meat or even take it home. He said it's all about keeping your eye sharp It's very alarming. So that fall Gerald shoots down a trophy elk This is this is not the good side of hunting, okay? This is not sustainable hunting. This is straight up, look at this oak that I shot down. So he takes the elk home, 700 pounds, right? He starts butchering the elk on a telephone pole. Listen, don't ask me questions, I googled it. I don't know how someone can butch a 700 pound animal on a telephone pole.

I also don't know why he did that. What does that even mean? Just in a dark alleyway, just up against a telephone pole. I also don't know why he did that. What does that even mean? Just in a dark alleyway, just up against a telephone pole. And he wanted to be careful with the elx hide because he felt like he could get a pretty penny from a leather dealer. So as he's skinny, this elk, a woman appears out of nowhere. And yeah, because he's not like doing this in a shed or in a house, it's straight up in alleyway. And it was Barbara and Phillips. She was the girl next door, literally the girl next door. And she asked, well, where did you get him?

Twin Creek below limestone mountain. How big? Five by five. What's five by five? Oh, you're asking me. I think it's got five legs. Okay. How much does he weigh?

I don't know, maybe 700 pounds. What did you get him with? A Winchester 26 form magnum. I have a 270. Long shot. Hundred yards. Went through the heart. Went down like a hit him on the head with a hammer.

And he stayed down. What are you going to do with the hide? I don't know. Maybe a blanket. In both of them, the sexual tension with this raw dead elk blood everywhere was just so wow, you could cut it with a knife. It was so intense, they were impressed with each other. Gerald felt like Barbara wasn't squeamish and screaming like, oh my god, she knew her meat, which is a plus if you catch my drift. And Barbara and parents, they were avid hunters. She knew a good shot when she saw one.

And she knew that this elk could fill her family's freezer for a year. Oh, so she's eyeing the meat. Oh yeah, she wanted some of that meat. If you know what I mean. Oh yeah, in the kitchen and the bed literally, they had some small talk. And Gerald finally works up the nerve to ask her on a date and she said yes. So that night, they go to the only movie theater in the whole town and the movie was boring but Gerald didn't care. He's too busy searing up Barbara anyway. And that was the night that he fell in love with Barbara. But the catch,

the problem? Barbara's only 17. Yeah, I know, alarming. She needed her parents permission to marry him, so Jaild put together his best genuinely act, approached her father and asked for Barbara's hand in marriage. I don't know how it happened, but it worked. The two ended up getting married, and they buy this cramped little used trailer. They park it in Jaild's parents' backyard. I mean, there was... it was just kind of crazy. The first year of their marriage, they were never even in the trailer. They were constantly out hunting, fishing, camping, hanging out. Gerald was on top of the moon. If he had to write down on a piece of paper, his perfect soulmate, Barbara was it. She loved campfire smoke. She could bait her own hooks

when they went fishing. Oh, she wasn't scared. She'd warm it up. She even had her own hooks when they weren't fishing. Oh, she wasn't scared, she'd warm it up. She even had her own hunting rifles on a good eye. She cooked like a chef, she loved sex, and you know what she slept on a leaky smelly mattress and not once did she ever complain. This was his dream gal. To Gerald, Barbara was perfect. So you know the drill. The parents of Gerald and Barbara are saying, okay, well now that you guys got married yesterday, it's time today to bring us some grandchildren. Where are the grandchildren? So Gerald's mom even fed Barbara fertility soups. Which is what? I don't know because your mom has been giving me a lot of soups recently. Yeah, I know. It's for fertility. They're really alarmed by this. So Gerald's parents

they loved Barbara and they wanted her to get pregnant ASAP but Barbara wasn't trying to get pregnant. In fact, she was on the pill and she wasn't gonna stop. She was gonna keep on with her birth control. So she thought, well I'm on birth control. The soup is probably some old wives' tale. Like, with the heck is fertility soup. And so like I can get pregnant from a soup. I don't want to waste it. She drank the soup and somehow there was an ingredient that messed with her birth control. And she ended up hospitalized for threatening,

life-threatening blood clots. I know it's hard to believe that a mother and a log didn't try to kill her, but I mean, it really seemed like it was just a fertility soup that mixed with her birth control all weird. Barbara was supposed to be on bed rest after she was discharged from the hospital for two weeks, but after about two weeks, Gerald was sick of it. He would scream at her, get your ass up and get to work. The dishes need to be washed the laundry. Oh, don't get me started, Barbara. I haven't been able to feed myself properly because I'm a full blown man child. I don't care that you almost died two weeks ago.

I'm gonna die if I keep eating the same egg breakfast, cook me something. So Barbara got a bad of bed. And went straight from the bed to divorce court. Gerald was not the man that she thought he was. He was not an elk, He was nothing but roadkill. She was upset. She divorced him.

Good on her, honestly. So after his divorce, Gerald, for five full long years, had to do his own housework. Tragic, I know. He had been ready to move on for a while, but it wasn't until he met Wanda that he felt like, oh, this is the one. Well, not the one. I guess the second one. This is the second one.

So Wanda was the opposite of Barbara. She was blonde and she was very, very wild. That's what everybody said about her. She was this wild child who loved to shoot guns in motorcycles. Not the guns at the motorcycles, but she loved motorcycles. She was the type that honestly I think would make me feel a little nervous to be around because she was just that unpredictable. Like if I'm on the back of her motorcycle, who knows when she's just gonna whip at her

gun and start shooting at something? I don't know, do you want to do that? Probably not. So this is a lot of energy she's giving off, and Gerald didn't really feel the deep so connection with her. It was different from Barbara. Barbara was so soulmate, but Wanda? She just ticked a few boxes, she liked guns, and those type of women were hard to

come by. And sure she's wild, that's not something that he likes, but you know Gerald can handle her. That's what he assumed. What could go wrong? So they rushed into this marriage and they moved into a trailer behind a bowling alley, and at first it was fine, but Gerald is getting sick and tired of wand is constant opinions Who knew woman have opinions? It's just too many. Why do you have an opinion on everything about life? Only I should have that she was the type to scream yeah, no You're not gonna tell me what to do or what to wear. I don't care Why would I let a man tell me if my outfit looks good? No, I'm not making lunch unless I want to make lunch and I'm hungry

And in that case I'm lunch unless I want to make lunch and I'm hungry and in that case I'm making what I want to eat. Like she was just a normal person and he was very upset by this. He was appalled. He's thinking what in the world? He kept trying to tell her like no, you gotta do this. This is what wives do and it just pushed one deaf further and further and further away and she got on her motorcycle and left his butt in the dust. Holding divorce papers of course. So now we single again. He was about to head his 30s, two divorces, but no worries.

Gerald was back on the market at a discounted price. He starts asking around anyone who might have a wife for him and his landlady said, let me introduce you to a girl I know, Virginia. Oh, she's so sweet. So Virginia comes knocking on his trailer door one day. You Gerald? She was this beautiful, dark-haired woman in her mid-twenties, and, ah, would you look at that? She's holding a gun. My name's Virginia. The landlady said you might be able to help me. Would you take a look at my

rifle and tell me what it's worth? Gerald a good look, with a pretty penny he liked this gun, right? They sat down in his trailer and the rest is history. Just to give you a little side note on Virginia, she was living a rough life. Virginia was a single mom who had just recently moved here. Her ex-husband wasn't paying child support. She really couldn't hold down a job and pay enough for her rent, which by the way, her apartment was less than 500 square feet and she was there with two young sons who were 4 and 6 years old. Her mom's getting old and yeah, a winter's coming, literally.

She just seemed so stressed and angry and broke and sad. That's Gerald's first impression of Virginia, and he took some pity on her. He offered, why don't I help you with some chores around the house? So that's when Gerald meets her sons, Richard and Reagan, and they were, they were such a handful, they were so energetic, full of chaos, all they wanted was to see the house and the world go up in flames, as most children do. Like not in the evil sense, but just they wanted to destroy stuff. I mean, look at Sophie. She'll literally open cabinets and throw out everything inside. Just pure pandemonium.

Now, it's clear that Virginia had no idea how to control her boys. She would just snap at them. She would shove them out the door so that she could be alone for a second. She never disciplined them. She would just explode at them in rage and never with the intention to teach them anything.

And then this would lead to this vicious cycle of her feeling really guilty about it afterwards, more stressed and then more prone to exploding and anger at them. So Gerald sighed. He looked at the boys and he thought to himself, you know, they just need a father figure in their lives, they just need a man in their lives, that's all. So the two of them, they start becoming very close, but it seemed that Virginia really held a lot back from Gerald. She never really told him about her full life.

We later find out that it was rough. When she was 20, she got pregnant by a veteran. And this guy had kids of his own and Virginia, I don't know, maybe because she's 20, she called one of his kids a son of a bitch. So he kicked her out while she was pregnant with children. So she gave birth alone, had another kid. I mean, it's doubtful that the boys were the veterans, but he still paid child support every once in a while.

But she still needed more money. She started selling junk at these garage sales, she moved around a lot, she owned practically nothing, everything she owned was scuffed and worn and just not well taken care of. She barely had food in the house. The only thing that Virginia told Gerald was that she yearned for a life partner, someone to make her feel valued, to nurse her insecurities, to take the burden away. But you know, men like that, they're hard to come by, if not impossible. So she just ends up settling with temporary lovers.

Sometimes she had a few moments of bliss with him where she would convince herself that it was love, but let's be real, it wasn't love. They were never good people anyway, and she felt lonely since she didn't have any friends of her own, she was just constantly tired and scared of dying alone. She opened up to Gerald about all of this, but then it didn't matter to him regardless. As long as she'd take the boxes, she loved the outdoors, she loved fishing, oh, and she loved sex, so nothing else she said really mattered to him at all. Those three boxes, that said, they were gonna date

possibly even get married. So Gerald even loved taking the boys hunting, it ticked his little family box. See, I don't know why they got along so well. I think that Gerald really just liked the idea of having a family. He liked the idea of someone being like, Daddy, Daddy, like Dad, help me with this, tell me with that. They warmed up to him.

They would even have dinner every single night together. But the dinners were not filled with just cuteness. It was rough. The boys had no sense of discipline. They refused to eat certain foods and they would just throw their food across the room if they didn't like it. And generally speaking, they would scream bloody murder about everything. They almost always wanted exclusively fast food for dinner for every single meal, and Virginia

would just listen because it's easier than fighting them. Now after dinner, the chaos had an end. Richard and Reagan hated going to bed. They were scared, they hated the dark, they hated the sound of the wind, the monsters in the closet under the but everything. Maybe at one point Virginia listened and she cared and maybe at one point she would look in the closet. Oh, there's no monsters in here. See, I just checked. But not anymore. She was too exhausted. She would just close the door on them and hope that they would be too exhausted to keep screaming any longer.

And if they didn't stop, she would run in their yank their pants down and spank them. But the boys still love their mom. I mean, I think that they all just weren't a really tough space. Gerald thought to himself, these boys they need me, Virginia needs me. And within three months of knowing each other, he freaking proposes Virginia accepts. Now, Gerald is over the moon. And they're finally a family. His dreams are coming true. They're going to revamp revamp Virginia's house they're gonna paint it a bright yellow color I mean they weren't rich but with their combined incomes they felt rich why would you break into these apartments for money for drugs whatever was in there weren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? no who's gonna catch us? what

of police? it was the height of the crack era and instead of locking up drug No, who's gonna catch us? What a police It was the height of the crack era and instead of locking up drug dealers some New York City cops had become them I would suit up in my uniform and we're gonna want some drug dealers and I know how to do it really well This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal in NYPD history and the investigation that uncovered it all. Did you consider yourself a rat? 100% I save my soul just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set an Odyssey originals documentary podcast series available now

in the Odyssey app Apple, or wherever you get your shows. So at first their relationship was super cute, they would go out and look at the stars, they would go stargazing and do it under the lights. They would go on hikes, fishing, and hunting trips, or they loved it. The boys even started calling Joe Dad, and he never knew how much power one word could have. So we officially adopted the kids as his own. And to celebrate, they would all go on this massive road trip together

all the way to Pennsylvania. I mean, the trip was going really well, until a few days that they were supposed to drive on back, Virginia lets him know, hey, the trip was a blast, yeah. But we're gonna stay here a little while. I got you a plane ticket back to go by yourself. I'm gonna stay with the kids and the car.

Yeah, it's weird, right? So he's, okay, I mean, that makes sense. You do have some distant relatives in Philadelphia. So I'll go back and I'll send you some money so that you have some spare cash and spare change and you know I'll wait for the summer to be over so the the kids can go come back and we can go to school and start the school year But then income then it was September and Gerald called just yelling at her you get back here Where are the kids? Those are my kids too

Virginia caved and the whole family came back, but it just wasn't the same anymore It seemed like Virginia was a completely different person. She didn't care to stargaze. She had no interest in hunting. She just wasn't the same woman he married. She wouldn't even sleep in his bed. She barely spoke to him. So what the hell happened in Philadelphia?

Gerald wondered, I mean, how does someone flip a switch like this? Maybe she never even loved him to begin with. Maybe she met another guy. I mean, how does this happen? The boys were different too. They weren't happy or energetic. They also reverted back to calling him Gerald instead of dad. And finally, a month of this, Virginia asked for a divorce. She filed the papers as intolerable indignities. Gerald was blindsided. He was confused. he even promised to help pay child support for the boys every single month.

I mean, he was legally required since he did adopt them. Now, Jail wanted to see the boys often. Virginia did not want this. Really, the only reason that she even talked to Jail still was to get her child support payments, but Jail never gave up. You know, he continued to date, he put himself out there, and fourth times the charm, Gerald realized that the woman that moved into the trailer right next to him had long dark hair, cowboy boots, and big boobs. Look at those his words, not mine. She

needed help with her trailer, with electrical plugs. They weren't working great, so he's literally, this is a porn plot, I'm sorry. He's like, let me go help over there, your plug is not working, let me unplug it. Okay, sorry. So after doing all of this work for her, he's offering to buy her burgers. For lunch, and her name was Alice Prunty. She was a widow working as a nurse and she was in her authorities. She had five kids, and she was taking care of all of them, all by her loan sum. Gerald did not care about the reality of how hard it would be if he were to date someone like Alice. He was just thinking, big ol' boobs.

You like to fish, Alice? I love it. Oh, well, I know a place. It's called Atlantic Creek. It's way up in. She's shown national park. It's barely wider than my truck to get up there, but they have so much trout. And just like that, they organized their first date. Gerald was hooked from the first second he laid eyes on her boobs. I mean her, on her. She was pretty. She was self-sufficient, seemed resourceful. I mean, she already had kids in a trailer. She liked to fish fish. Come on fish! Are you kidding? The night before the day, he could barely sleep.

The next morning Alice came to meet him for the date, she had her own fishing rod. That impressed the hell out of Gerald. She had her kids in tow, her younger kids. They were all gonna go fishing I guess. So they'd take a trip to Gerald's favorite fishing spot in his truck. And they had a blast Jill was impressed unlike Virginia Alice had complete control over her kids He was into that hot mom alert, you know, they even did a cute little picnic

They were eating sandwiches and Alice started to tell him her life story I was born to a single mom and she gave me up for adoption I married my first husband when I was actually 16 and he was like this police officer. We were together for, yeah, quite a while, 13 years, we had four kids together but I just, the marriage wasn't doing it, I couldn't do it anymore. We get a divorce and I meet my second husband, which all he did was treat on me. That's not even the worst part. The worst part with my second husband is when he dropped dead. He dropped dead and left me in a pile of dead and an infant daughter all alone. So since then I've just been trying to work all sorts of odd jobs. I've been a bartender, a bus driver,

a nurse and nothing's really been sticking. But I'm not discouraged because, you know, I got to find a way. I got five kids, I'm a single mom and I know I can do it. I just need to find the right opportunity. Gerald was touched. And move, I mean she's so young and all the pain that she felt, she still kept going, she was full of life and hope, he couldn't help but compare her to his ex-wife Virginia. Who couldn't do any of that? But now here's this woman that could, and she, she deserved him.

She deserved him to give her what he could to make her life better easier, more fulfilling. Alice also fell hard for Gerald, it was a mutual thing, but there was this one thing that they didn't get along on. Alice's need for pillow talk and some weird stories she would share. Here's her weirdest one so far. Alice loved to talk. Gerald wasn't much of a listener but he sat there and he tried. And Alex would go on and on about her third husband.

You're like, wait, what? Yeah, we know about the first two. Let me tell you about the third. He was the worst. He was kicked out of the army. I mean, how unhinged do you have to be beaten be kicked out of the army? That's what Alice said. You know, that the army wants nothing to do with you?

Anyway, I was working at the psych ward and I was a nurse. He was a patient. That's what we met. Obviously, it's super inappropriate to date your patients, but he was hot. I was in love and we ran away. I quit my job and we got married. But all he did was drugs. That's it.

He even threatened me to beat me, to threaten to kill my baby if she ever cried. He said to me and I quote, I've killed babies in Vietnam and I'll kill yours too. So one night around Christmas he just went berserk. I shot him before he could harm the baby. It was self-defense though I didn't have a choice. So I freaked out. I mean who's gonna raise my kids if I go to prison. So I put his body in a barrel and I dropped him off in a mine, an abandoned mine shaft. I rushed home, packed all of my things, and took the kids and we skidaddled. A few months later I filed for divorce stating abandonment. The divorce was granted because Ron, my third husband, failed to show up for court. So she just confessed to her murder?

Yeah, just like in bed. Imagine just silly little nighttime talk. You know how we talk about like the monkey king and stuff? This is what she's talking about. After her little story, Alice burst into tears and Gerald was shocked. He was shocked that she would have such a dark secret and that also she told him. All he could do was hold her tight and he promised, I will never tell a soul and you know what. There are just assholes in this world and he won't be missed.

He just needed a little killing. Although I'm sure in the back of Gerald's mind, he probably did wonder, why didn't she just run away? So this confession became a pivotal moment for the two. They bonded even more. Gerald promised himself Alice was a keeper and he would never let it go. So after this, he married her within four months of knowing her. Now one thing about Gerald is that he doesn't seem to learn his lesson.

Maybe get to know them a little bit longer. No, four months, let's get married. They had the very small church wedding. He re-warred the same suit that he wore to his marriage with Virginia. And for their honeymoon, they went out hunting. They slept in the back of Alice's pickup truck and sleeping bags during a snow storm. I mean, it's kind of cute, right?

And Gerald would do everything for her. After their honeymoon, he would spend every last penny that he had on a diamond ring for her. Sometimes Alice would come home so drunk from a girls' night out that she couldn't even make it to the bed. Instead of letting her crash on the floor by herself, he would put a blanket on the trailer floor and sleep next to her. He would stroke her hair and promise her one day I'm gonna buy a piece of land out in the country. We won't see another person for days. We'll build our own house, whatever you like, however you like it.

We could live on our own and off the land, raising cows for milk, chicken, turkeys. We'll do all of that. Alice loved it. I mean, she was the type of person that loved being taken care of. I mean, who isn't? So Gerald was just in the state of blissful ignorance. It wasn't until New Year's Eve that he got a glimpse of the true Alice. So he joined Alice for like a holiday party being thrown by her bosses. Now it turns out Barbara and also worked at the same hospital and she immediately recognized her first husband Gerald. She's

like, oh my god, Wow, Gerald is like you So Barbara introduced herself to Alice and they even talked to Gerald about their good old days And oh it was as if they were still best friends and the second that Barbara walked away Alice exploded Who the hell does she think she is old lovers can't come back old love affairs should never be discussed and X wives They should just disappear forever Gerald had never seen her soap. Okay, okay. I got it. No, no exes. Ever. So he saved up money trying to get back on Alice's good side. And he worked hard, saved up $20,000 to buy her property on an unpaid country road in Wyoming. It was a town called Pavilion and it was so small that the people in Wyoming

didn't even know where it was. It was the perfect place to escape. They moved out Alice's trailer to the countryside, and they made this cute little well in the whole land. You know, they dug another hole for Alice because she got the shit up there. And soon enough, they built a full-blown barn, and it was just this cute little routine.

One of the Alice's sons, let's call him Mike, he joined the school's club Future Farmers of America and as a member he had to undertake an agricultural business. So he chose pigs, so Gerald built a hog pen and filled it up with pigs. The pig farm killer. The pig farm killer, oh god. So I mean, and then on top of that, what did he do? I mean, it just makes complete sense.

When you're living on some of the driest soil you can find, it makes complete another sense to buy a boat. So that's exactly what the couple did they bought a boat. It was 16 feet long, it had room for aids and had even converted beds on the inside. Alice freaking love the boat. She was on cloud nine until another ex popped into the picture. Gerald had stopped seeing his boys with Virginia, the ones that he had adopted, legally speaking. He had unrestricted rights to the boys, but he just kind of stopped.

Alice felt uncomfortable with it, so he would just straight up tell Virginia, yeah, I can't see the boys anymore. Sometimes, he would be in town and he would run into Virginia and the boys, and if Alice was there, he would turn his head and act like he doesn't know. One time the boys asked Gerald to come to their school's career day and he straight up said, yeah, I can't, Alice wouldn't like that. He still did pay child support fairly regularly and Virginia was wondering why she even left him in the first place. She had spiraled into this depression, she started writing nasty letters to Gerald,

demanding more and more child support. And what she got back were venomous letters from Alice. It would say things like Virginia. Gerald and I enjoyed your letter. As we always do, it appears to me that you have the idea that I try to keep your messages and letters from my husband, but we keep no secrets from one another. We have to laugh at your expense. It's very difficult for either one of us

to understand how any human can be as brainless as you are. If you get the idea that I don't like you, you're very correct. I have no use for a woman that does not have the mind backbone or the guts to stand on her own to feed and take care of herself and her kids by herself without ripping some poor man's pocket. Any woman that can't do that is a worthless piece of garbage.

I work. I support five children, and I also have to give my tax money to support leeches like you who are too lazy to go out and get a good job to take care of your own. You are worse than most of your kind. Everyone in the family knows how you hounded Gerald to adopt your kids so he could wind up supporting them since their real fathers wouldn't. You're quite the con artist. I mean, most lazy trash are. Gerald must have really tried to keep his marriage together by adopting your boys because he doesn't even like your kids. He was hoping the power plant, the nuclear power plant near your house

would explode and take you with it. It's really a shame that it didn't. These are the letters that Alice is sending Virginia. I mean, this is a whole nother level of like, X-Wife and new wife feud. And then Gerald allegedly wrote Virginia a letter, which later we find out it seems like it was just Alice doing all of this, but he threatened to take the boys. He said, if I can't have my visitation rights, do you know that when the boys turn 14, they can choose which parent to live with, and there isn't a thing that the other parent can

do about it? Alice and I intend to do everything we can to show that my sons will be happier living with us. We will have so much more to offer them than you ever will, and there is no greater pleasure than watching these sons grow up just like me." Now, there is, of course, one way you could stop all of this, and that is to have the adoption set aside and declared null and void. But I don't think that you would do that. You worked in scheme too hard to give up now. You have no honor or self-respect. Well, no one on welfare does. So he's insinuating that he's gonna try

to take full custody of the boys so that he doesn't have to pay child support. And if the only way that she can get him to stop this legal fight, this custody battle, is to declare the adoption. No, I'll avoid which wouldn't mean that she doesn't get child support. Overall, all in all, he's just not trying to play child support,

which by the way, was like $150 a month. So, I mean, it's a lot of money, but it's not, you know, this unfeasible, in unimaginable, I can't even, you know, and he works. Then another letter from Alice. Virginia, I'm looking forward to meeting my new sons. I know the three of us will get along just fine.

With the experience I've had raising five children, three of them being sons, I know exactly what boys need to make them happy. They will love their new mother. I am going to mold them to be just like their father Gerald. We have to have some influence in their lives if we're going to bring honor to Gerald's name. If you think we're bluffing, you're in for real shock. The boys will come to Wyoming or you will go to court for contempt charges. If you try to disappear or avoid this, you will lose the child's support money. Anyway, happy new year.

Damn, a lot of effort putting into this song. Yeah, it's intense. So Virginia was ordered to move back to Wyoming. Briefly, she had gone to New Jersey to try and, you know, live her life there So she moved back to Wyoming, moved in with her mom Claire, hoping that her mom would help her with the boys while she tried to figure out her life Meanwhile, Gerald and Alice, they learned that Virginia's back in town and it put them in a predicament They had made this huge ordeal about visitation and all of that and we want to raise the kids. We're better than you and now The boys are there and they can't really exactly ignore the boys

Damn, I mean their plan was never really to get custody It was just a scare Virginia so that they don't pay child support and now they have to pick up the boys for freaking sleepovers Oh, they do yeah, and anytime they did Alice would always duck and hide in the car refusing to meet Virginia Which Virginia was frustrated by because I mean this woman is the one that my kids are spending time with shouldn't I be able to at least meet her? Alice refused and Gerald was always on Alice's side But Virginia did gather that Gerald had no idea about the nasty letters Alice had sent her or even the ones that he allegedly sent her But it's not like she had any time for this. Virginia was busy. You see, her son Richard had already been hospitalized three times, since they moved back.

He had a scary lump on his neck, the medical bills were racking up, Gerald refused to help pay, and she was thinking of suing him. But she always had these second thoughts anytime Gerald wasn't around Alice, because he was nice. He listened to her and her problems and he genuinely seemed like he wanted to help. But when Alice was around he flipped a switch, so naturally in Virginia's mind Alice was the evil and manipulative one. Then one day the boys come back after Gerald and they're complaining. They tell Claire their grandma that Gerald and Alice locked them in a travel

trailer and they had his sleep on a dirty mattress on the floor. They were scared. It was terrifying. They went on a boat trip with Gerald's boat and at the deepest coldest part of the lake, Gerald forced us to jump off in our undies. He said this is the only way we learn how to swim. He said straight up, sink or swim. So we jumped and he told us to swim to the boat as we he would drive off, as we got closer he would drive off again. And it was just so miserable. We started freaking out, we were crying and I just couldn't do it anymore and the boat seemed impossibly far and we just started screaming for help. Alice was the one that cave didn't first and she ordered Gerald to go back and get us. And just like that they hoisted us back onto the boat and acted like

none of it happened. So then that Thursday night, Gerald calls Virginia at her mom's house and says, Hey, good news. Remember how you were saying you have all your stuff back in New Jersey and you have no way of getting it back to Wyoming? Well, I have a friend who is willing to loan you a trailer for free. So you can come on over tomorrow to check it out at my place. I have the day off. Why don't you bring the boys and we can all go bird hunting afterwards. Oh, okay, that sounds great Yeah, why don't you meet me about half a mile from my place because you know the corner at the inners? Yes, that place So, um, you know Alice is the one you want the property You can see the trailer decide if you like it and you know drop the boys off with me and I will drop them off after we go hunting

Okay, sounds good. Oh and Virginia. Don't forget to pack your grandfather's gun the 22 the boys are gonna need it for the birds So after the phone call Virginia skip term mom mom guess who just called me. I don't know sweetie Gerald he told me you can get me a trailer to bring my stuff back from New Jersey I mean it belongs to a man that sells him like hey for animals, like it's a pig or something, I don't know. Claire was confused. Virginia was on slightly better terms with a couple, but I mean, it still wasn't great. Virginia would never ask Gerald for anything but child support payments. Alice would have flipped out about this. But Virginia looked even confused. She said, that's weird though. I can't imagine Gerald doing me any favors at this point. But I

guess as long as the trailer doesn't cost me money, I'll take it. I just don't have that kind of money right now. Anyway, maybe he just wants to see the boys. He asked them that I bring them along, he's going to take them bird hunting. Can I borrow the old 22 gun? Claire was really alarmed now. A 22 is not a hunting gun. It's definitely not a bird hunting gun, but she didn't say anything.

Virginia had been extra sensitive these days and she didn't want to start a fight. So one thirty the next day, mid afternoon, Claire gave her daughter five dollars for gas and they hit the road. She drove to see Gerald at the designated spot, but there was no truck. So he's just standing there. She pulled up and he greeted, hey boys, how you doing? What about the trailer Gerald? I don't know, the guy is running late. I'm sure he'll come around. Actually, do you mind driving another 5-6 miles, follow me down the road. If there's a place perfect for target practice, we can start shooting now.

The boys were so stoked. Yes, that's mom! That's mom! We don't want to sit here! So, Gerald directed them to the canal, which was very remote. Not a house nearby. Nobody was going to be casually walking by either. Virginia pulls up. The boys rush out of the car, ready a house nearby. Nobody was going to be casually walking by either. Virginia pulls up.

The boys rush out of the car, ready to start shooting, and the two of them are just like arguing, I'm going to shoot neck, you go first, now I'm going first! Meanwhile, Gerald is testing the guns by shooting into the canal, into the water. And once he was pleased, he walks straight up to Virginia, puts the gun against the back of her head and pulls the trigger. She dropped to the ground. Richard and Reagan were too busy to notice, so he walks up to Richard, puts the gun up against his ear and shot. Reagan saw his older brother die.

He stumbled and started to make a run for it. Gerald calmly walked up to him as if he were stalking a wounded animal and he shot the tenured behind his ear too. The three of them dropped dead, they were all brain dead, and their hearts and lungs kept working for potentially another 10 to 15 seconds, maybe more. So Gerald shoved their bodies into the back of the station wagon. Now the guys weren't bleeding too much, the boys, but Gerald didn't notice that Virginia was bleeding from her head, so he threw her into the trunk.

The whole thing lasted less than half a minute. Dared drove home feeling great, you know? I mean, he felt like such a good shot. He thought that he would have to chase them around like wounded prey, but he didn't, so that was good. But the best part, he didn't even get blood on his good genes. Now, he would have saved himself close to $14,000 that he would have to pay before Reagan was officially an adult, and now Alice would be pleased because they get to keep $14,000.

She would love him forever. So he drove the bodies back to his house. He hoisted the boys limp bodies into his other truck into the truck bed and then put Virginia on top. Then he started putting like these empty feeding stacks on the bodies and held them down with rocks and other heavy items. All of this caused a puncture in Virginia's skull which was trickling blood into his truck. And he got into his truck and he realized, fork, I'm out of gas.

He would have to go pump gas with three dead bodies in the back. He chose the slowest gas station and he was right when he drove up, he was the only customer. He just needed to fuel up and leave, but of course, the pump was stuck, it was jammed! So before he could jump in and drive to another gas station, the teenage employee helped him out. And that is when the drip, drip, drip. After successfully pumping gas, Gerald dripped and drove until he found his secluded spot in the swampy road. And he checked up on Virginia.

It was a mess. Her head was oozing blood, but also brain matter. He drove all the way to the abandoned, Lewiston Gold Mining District. This is a collection of like abandoned gold mines that had been dug up by families looking to get rich. One of the larger mines there was called the Hidden Hand Mine. And during its peak it produced a lot of gold. But now, now is more of a snake nest than a gold mine. your minds there was called the hidden hand mine and during its peak it produced a lot of gold but now

now is more of a snake nest than a gold mine. He started driving around and his you know he thought about a lot of things he thought about the mine and what if what if there was another way he even thought about taking the bodies to the mine that he was employed at but that was too risky even putting them in the incinerating machine that goes above 2,200 degrees, too risky, because his co-workers would smell the burning flesh. It had to be an unmistakable scent, right? Someone would get suspicious. He considered dumping them in an underground coil seam, but if something went wrong, it

would be far too risky for him to go down and get them and fix the situation. Too risky. Maybe he could take one from Robert Pickedin himself. Well, maybe not. But he was on the same train of thought. He thought that he should feed them to his hogs bit by bit. But that meant that he had to butcher his entire former family. And it's not that he had a more conscious.

It's the fact that he really only had space to do that on his own kitchen table. And he didn't really want to do that. And what about the teeth? You know, it's Ris risky. Well, maybe not. More on this later. So Gerald thought, why don't I just barbecue them? But then what? What do I do with the meat? Do I have to eat them? I'm not a cannibal that's below me. That's beneath me. The hidden hand mine was perfect. Nobody ever passed by there. And when they did, they weren't likely to venture down into the mines. And if they did, the corpses would already be ravaged by animals and bugs, plus, Alice said that she dumped her third husband in a mineshaft and looked at her, she's a free woman, nobody ever found him, or her.

So he started the two-hour drive to the mines from the gas station. You have to wonder, what on earth did he think about for those very long two hours? But we'll never know. So Gerald arrives at the mines, he couldn't see anyone through his rifle scope for at least five miles in any direction. He backed his trucks at the end of the mine, opened up the tailgate, dragged out the three bodies, and just let gravity suck their dead weight into the depole. So he had a climb to the bottom, which was only about 20 feet, and from there he had to

one by one drag them into like an underground, underground stope, which is essentially a room. The space was barely enough to fit Gerald, so he had a maneuver around to make sure all three bodies were fit in there without anyone from above seeing them. So he stuffs them into the hole. When he's done, he's exhausted. He had to work pretty hard to climb back up 20 feet up from the hole, which I don't know, this is horror movie level. Imagine you have to climb up because people are coming, there's dead bodies in the hole. Can you just imagine the stress of that? Not that I'm sympathizing with this guy, but just like the moment. So the sloping wall was slippery, there was loose start and stones,

even contemplated briefly, stealing some dynamite from his workplace and collapsing the hidden hand-mind. But he felt like, you know, who would even look for Virginia in the boys? Did he really have to go the extra mile? He climbed his way back up. And he didn't even look back. He just walked away, drove all the way home, and made it in time for dinner. Meanwhile, Claire was concerned for her daughter and her grandsons.

By 9pm, she could not help but feel her anxiety bubbling over. She started freaking out, but maybe she ran into friends. She's trying to reason with herself. That is until her phone rang. Gerald was asking, hey, where's Virginia? What do you mean, where's Virginia? She never came over. You were gonna bring the boys back weren't you? She came over. Mom and see any of them they never got here. What do you mean they what do you mean? They were supposed to meet me at two o'clock, but they never showed up. I haven't seen any of them today Yeah, I mean I waited how long a long time

Like for how long I mean did you give her time to get there? What if she had a flat tire? What if she put her car broke down or something? Or is that for at least an hour maybe longer? Are you sure they didn't show up, Gerald? No, I haven't seen any of them. Claire assumed that Virginia had gotten into some car trouble. She started looking around. She even got her friend Marie to pick her up, drive around town.

They went up and down Virginia's favorite spots, and eventually when they couldn't find her, they decided that they were going to go to the sheriff's office. But it was freaking closed. So they end up driving back home and just doing circles in the car. They did see Gerald out in his own truck searching for Virginia, so they kind of just thought, okay, that makes sense like he's searching for his kids, you know, these are his boys. They had no idea that Gerald was actually getting rid of evidence. Virginia's personal items, her purse, her coat, some bloody articles of clothing, and the gun. You have to drive around and get rid of them.

Alice and Gerald also had to get rid of Claire's car, the one that Virginia and the boys came in. So they drove it up all the way to a place called Dickinson Road and it's like in the middle of the mountains. It's a very, very, very rough drive up there. And his whole plan was to shift the gear handle into neutral and start pushing the car into the water. Because of gravity, it would start rolling faster and faster and into the pond, yeah? But at the very last second, the car turned away from the water towards a few trees and about a hundred feet from the road and not deep into the water, the car hit a giant boulder.

Now it's just hanging out in plain sight. Fork! So he ran over, he hubs into the driver's side, the engine's still working, but the car refused to budge. So he's like, maybe we can push it up the rock. Even with Alice's help this time, it didn't work. They realize that the town, I mean, you could see into the mountains. If you drove by, you could see it.

There's people near, but this is so bad. What do we do? We have to burn it. He looked around for something to light and he found this empty grocery store bag. It was paper and he removed Claire's car's gas cap. What did the paper bag into the gas tank and lit a few matches? So he started watching the flames slowly grow, but then he realized, oh my god, the flames are gonna get so big. It's gonna be an explosion. Then people are gonna notice that it's such a big deal. So he put out the fire, took the license plate, bust it out the headlights so that if a car drove by the reflection wouldn't catch their eye,

he put some pine branches on the car to try to camouflage it and they drove all the way home. It was a bumpy ride and they made it home just in time for their gas tank to run out, but overall, it's a pretty good day for the couple. That's how they felt. So Claire keeps going to the Sheriff's office the next day and the day after and they're just not taking it seriously. I mean the police didn't budge, they were more worried about Claire's missing car than they were about the kids.

Then they were about Virginia. It went unsaid that Claire feared that Virginia had taken her own life. She kept saying, how about up Dickinson Park Road? This is where they left the car. Why there? I don't know. I told you, mothers intuition is something else, but also this is where Claire and Virginia would sometimes go picknicking. So she just randomly blurred it out of place that she hadn't checked yet.

But the police didn't care, and Claire could not get a ride up there, you know, since her car was gone. So she wanted everyone in town to be on the lookout. She put up posters everywhere she tried to get everybody to be alert and to look around, but nothing really happened. The police after a couple of days, they went to the Udin place to do a quick little interview, but they weren't home. So what did they do?

They look around, nothing unusual. They pack it up and leave. Meanwhile, Gerald and Alice are leisurely getting rid of all the evidence. So, days turned into weeks turned into months, and nobody was helping Claire find her daughter. Till she got a phone call from a woman named Tia Thomas. She said that her friend was in trouble, her friend being Virginia,

and wanted to call her mom, Claire, and say, hey, she's gonna be fine, you know. She's writing a letter, she told me to get the message say, hey, she's going to be fine. You know, she's writing a letter. She told me to get the message across. This is what's going on. Essentially, Virginia told this woman, Tia, can you call my mom and tell her that I'm in California, but I'm not actually in California and I'm in some trouble. And it's better if she doesn't know.

Tia was like, okay, that's weird. So she does it. Then the cops come and they knock on Tia's door. And she says, Oh, no, I don't know anyone named Virginia Actually is my mom who asked me to do that for a friend of hers named Virginia and it was like this most complicated thing The police tell her will Virginia and her sons are missing so you better tell us everything that you know But sites who is your mom what's your mom's name? You guessed it Alice you didn't what so Alice and Gerald they walk into their local sheriff's office and they wanted to confess.

They said that they were the ones that sent the bogus letters and the bogus calls to Claire, but they had nothing to do with the disappearance of Virginia and her boys. Alice just said, it was only a matter of time before Claire tried to frame us for Virginia's disappearance. That's why we sent those letters. I mean, now in hindsight, it's embarrassing and it feels dumb, but, you know, Claire's the suspicious one. Virginia and the boys didn't even show up for their hunting trip, and Claire was the last one to see the three of them alive.

The word alive struck the officer. Strange, because up until now nobody ever mentioned the three as dead people. That's crazy. But they had nothing to arrest them with. So they were sent on their merry way. The next weekend, a civilian called to report a station wagon abandoned on Dickinson Road. Nothing was done. The week after that, a patrol officer saw the car, saw the stuffed paper bag in the gas tank,

partly burnt, saw some sort of stains in the back of the car, he wrote a report, but nothing else. Then a rancher and his son spotted the car and he physically went to the sheriff's office to report it. This would be the third time the vehicle was reported and now the police were gonna do something. They sent out deputies to investigate. They saw inside that there was no evidence of blood, clothes or any mess. They saw the busted out tail lights. They saw the fact that someone tried to blow it up by lighting it on fire but others

not. Nothing alarming. They decided to not send it to forensics and just tow it back to Claire's trailer. So the chain of custody was then broken. It was actually Claire who found the blood in the car. She was able to find blood in the back seat under the floor mats and under the back seats. She called the detectives and clearly they could see blood, dried blood, and what looked to be brain matter.

They took the car and they took it in as evidence. The blood was also tested and it was a match for Virginia. Now that the car was found and being taken in for evidence, the second time, Gerald and Alice started to feel the pressure. So Gerald goes back to the mind where he had left the bodies, and eight weeks had passed by now. They were rotting, crawling with maggots, they were even nodded on by wild animals, like the ones that he hunted. Their eyeballs had been pecked out, but they were still recognizable. So he panicked.

He stuffed them one by one into black plastic trash bags, and moved them to a position where he could pull them up out of the hole with the rope connected to his truck bumper. He crammed Virginia's remains into a 55 gallon drum and the boy is into a smaller one and he closed the lid tight. He later claims that he drove out his boat and dropped them into the deep waters of a local lake, but a lot of people think that he fed them to the pigs. Because they had divers, they had excavators searching that lake and they found nothing. Meanwhile the police interviewed the couple multiple times. And still they had no reason, no way to arrest them.

Alice would even go on blatant rant about Virginia about how she was a welfare queen, a conniving ex-wife and a horrible mother. Gerald even sat there and straight up looked the police in the eye and said, well, you don't have anything until you find a body. For two years, the case would go cold. In the meantime, some strange things were happening to Alice's seven-year-old daughter, Katie.

She would tell the teacher in class that she might not be back after break because her parents were being arrested. Well, why would you think that, sweetie? I don't know, they're always talking about what they're going to say to the sheriff and how they need to be on the same page. Oh my god, the kids. The teacher ignored it, and then one day Alice's daughter, Katie, drew a very strange picture of a person standing on a box with her head in a noose.

A cartoon speech bubble was next to her mouth and it read, Help Me. Help Me. The teacher both Katie aside and asked about it and she said, Oh, don her mouth and it read, Help Me, Help Me. The teacher, both Katie, asked about it and she said, Oh, don't worry about it, it only happens in the barn. It was given to a social worker and Alice shrugged it off. She said, you know kids in their imagination. So some people suspect that the couple actually

had more victims outside of these three because that's a very specific picture to draw. And maybe it's a Robert Picton situation where, I don't know, maybe they were doing some sus stuff in the barn and then feeding the bodies to the pigs. Two years after Virginia's disappearance, the police brought together a jury, and they wanted to see if they could indict Gerald and Alice. After the first day, they had the jury pack up, they said, sorry for wasting your time, we don't have enough.

Meanwhile, the couple packed up and moved to a 40-acre farm in Missouri. Alice got another nursing job and Gerald was so inspired by Bob Ross he started taking landscape painting classes. He even has a picture with Bob Ross. So around this time, Katie's taken from her parents, Alice and Gerald, placed in a foster family, which by the way Gerald even responded to the CPS worker, where you want her, you got her. And now that Katie's older and she's in state care,

they start asking her about Virginia's disappearance. And she said, for example, she remembers Alice teaching Gerald how to sign Virginia's name. She also remembers finding some old random license plates in her mom's car. Since Katie was giving enough information, the police decided that they were actually

going to contact another one of Alice's kids. Let's call him Mike. So they start talking to the son Mike, asking him about his life, and the third husband, and he was like, Oh, yeah, I remember him. I remember Ron. All he wanted to do was party, and my mom used to make me her drinking buddy when I was 12. Yeah, Alice made Mike start drinking with her when he was 12. So we were drinking together, and she sat me down and said,

Well, you can't do drugs because the minute that you start doing drugs, you're going to end up like Ron and you're going to be dead in a ditch somewhere. You're going to be dead in a mine with a bullet in your head. So this is where her way of teaching her kids don't do drugs. So he got so freaked out and she was trying to calm him down like, well, he wasn't just me, like I had to do it

for the family. And now he was finally talking and telling the police everything. The police decided to look into Ron and family and now he was finally talking and telling the police everything. The police decided to look into Ron and they found that he had just vanished. He had infiled a tax report or a tax return or had even gone to the hospital, used insurance, claimed any of his social security, nothing since he was married to Alice. So in 2005, they reopened the case and decades after the disappearance, the couple were questioned again. But it came to nothing.

The police even confronted Alice about Ron, and she broke down crying, but she didn't say anything, so they couldn't arrest her. And guess what? Another eight years goes by. At this point, a full 30 years goes by, Gerald and Alice were in their 70s still together. They fought all the time. And in August 2013, a huge operation assembled to excavate the ranch that Alice used to live in with her husband. So they went 45 feet deep into a shaft and it was clear that there were human

remains there. They were I did to Ronnie Holtz, her third husband. The bullet hole in the back of Ron Skull indicated that he had been shot. So it was time to have a more serious talk with 74-year-old Alice Uden. She spilled her guts. She said that she shot him in self-defense. She had to carry him in the drama and it was all adrenaline. I mean it wasn't easy. She's 140 pounds.

He was 200 pounds of dead weight. She needed to get rid of them though. Alice was arrested and she would spend her first night in jail at 74 years old. It's a lesson. You're never too old for prison. Gerald came in the next day and proceeded to confess to everything else. He said, yeah, I killed Virginia and the two boys. I want life in prison or a death sentence, and you must understand, I may be stupid, but

I'm not crazy. Lizard, I've made my peace with God, and I'm, if I'm sentenced to death, then I'm not afraid. He proudly announced that he could have gone to Canada and just stayed there, but he didn't. So the guy was just proud of himself. And he only killed them not because he wanted to kill, but he didn't want to pay $10,000 in child support. So Gerald goes to trial in November 2013, 33 years after he murders his former family

in court blood. He was sentenced to three concurrent life sentences, $150 to state victim compensation funds, and $20 in court costs. Why? Because he has no money? Yeah. Alice was also found guilty of second degree murder of her third husband. She was sentenced to life in prison. She would die in 2019 in prison after serving only five years. And just two days later,

Gerald recanted his whole confession and threw all the blame on the murderous Alice. His petition was denied. I don't know. I just think it takes a special kind of person to be able to go that long without letting your conscience get to you, with just living your life, to not have that anxiety bubbling over. I mean, what kind of personality is that? What a motive, too.

Yeah. $10,000. Until. People that, yeah, the people that called you dad. It's not even like he trying to game something. He just trying to avoid paying child support. Exactly. Not even life insurance.

Yeah, it's not even like, oh, you have to pay them. I think what's creepy about this is that it reminds me, whenever you see those 70-year-olds that are so cute walking down the neighborhood with their arms flapping in the wind, you never know. They might be murders that just haven't been caught yet. See, that's the problem with me. I automatically, I think that anyone above the age of 65 is just as

sweet as can be, just as sweet as Picon Pie Grand Maul. Like, that's my thought. But in reality, some of them be real nasty. Now, don't go around assaulting or harassing elderly. Thank you very much. But I hope you guys enjoyed this week's main episode, and I will see you guys on Sunday for the mini-sode. Bye! around, assaulting or harassing elderly. Thank you very much. But I hope you guys enjoyed this week's main episode and I will see you guys on Sunday for the mini-sode. Bye!