Rotten Mango - #188: The Dark Life of a “Sex Trafficker/Pimp”

Episode Date: August 10, 2022

She never used to sleepwalk, but maybe that’s what happens when you hit your 30s? Her life was spiraling out of control because of it. She woke up one morning dangling off the side of 4th-floor balcony. She had no idea how she even got there. She could have seriously hurt herself or even died… she was just thankful he was there to save her. Or that time she woke up covered in blood. He told her that he found her roaming around at night, in a daze, with a knife in her hand. He thinks she murdered someone… She started panicking. That’s exactly what he wanted. If history had taught him anything, it was that she was close. Close to taking her own life. He wanted to break her. National Human Trafficking Hotline: [phone] Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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in all states or situations, prices vary based on how you buy. Butta Bing Butta Buu Welcome to this week's main episode of Rotten Mango. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. And she hadn't been sleeping well recently. He told her that she had even been sleepwalking. I mean, the whole thing was strange. She had never sleepwalked before. She's in her 30s. Why would she start now? And ever since the so-called sleepwalking started, her life had been spiraling out of control.

It felt like she was living in a different dimension. One time, she woke up and she was dangling off a balcony. Literally about to fall. She had no idea how she even got there. Thank God he was there to save her. She could have fallen, broken both of her legs, cracked her skull open, or worse, she could have died. But maybe dying was better than all of these unanswered questions that were driving her to the point of going mad. One morning, she woke up, gasping for air,

and she's looking around. She's on the bed, and the entire bed, the sheets, the blanket, her clothes covered in blood. The smell of that metallic blood was nauseating. I mean, why the hell was she even covered in blood? It was almost this dark red color. It looked like it had dried a little bit. And he walked in, and she's like, what happened? Like, am I okay? Why do you look so worried? Just tell me what happened. He gingerly sat on the edge of the bed and said, I found you out there in the middle of the night.

You were holding a knife and you had blood all over you. I kept asking you, what happened? What happened? And you refused to answer. You seemed like you were in a daze or something. Listen, I don't know what it was, but I'm kind of scared for you. I think you might have hurt someone. I think you might have killed someone in your sleep. She started breathing hard.

Her eyes were bulging out of her head. I mean, she's about to lose it all. The panic felt so real. What do you mean you think I killed somebody? Why would I kill someone? She was losing her mind. And that's exactly what he wanted. He had been toying with her for several months now.

She would be close, he thought, you know. It's about here where their brains usually turn to jelly. Maybe he just needed to orchestrate another incident where she woke up with chicken blood everywhere. If history told him anything, it's that she would kill herself soon, which is exactly what he was waiting for. He didn't spend all this energy turning her brain to jelly for nothing.

As always, full show notes are available at rottenmangopodcast.com, but I mean, this is the life of Robert Beck, aka Richard Beck, aka Robert Muppen, aka Iceberg Slim. Yeah. So he wrote quite the controversial memoir about his life. It's called Pimp, the book is called Pimp. And it's one of those transgressive novels. People say, well, it's an autobiography, I guess. It's just so controversial. It's so hard to stomach this, and this book is not for everyone.

It's very intense. It just feels so, so's so hard to stomach this and this book is not for everyone. It's very intense. It just feels so so so heavy. Saying that the language is uncensored and not safer work is the world's biggest understatement. The dialogue makes you cringe in the worst way possible. It's uncomfortable. The way that pimps treat women, I mean the violence against women that's in this book, you just get thrown into this completely different world without any preparation, without any warning, and it's an underground, as iceberg Slim calls it. So he's a pimp.

Yeah, this is like the memoir of a pimp. And we've talked about a ton of cases involving sex workers, pimp's even, but this, this book is unique. It's written from such a niche perspective. It gives me so much more insight on the nuanced world that is the quote-unquote underground. I just was not ready for this book at all. The feelings of disbelief, disgust, deep sadness, distrust, confusion, discomfort, they were all at the forefront while I'm reading this book. It's incredibly thought-provoking.

Everything just kind of stays with you. But with that being said, it is so hard to get through this book. It's incredibly thought-provoking. Everything just kind of stays with you, but with that being said, it is so hard to get through this book on an emotional level. It's one of those books that really makes you feel like, I think I need to rethink what life is, and what the world is, and how society works, and how evil and vile humans are to each other. So before we get started, let's talk about sex work. Because we're going deep into that portion of that world. So today we're not talking about only fans, creators, or dancers, or people who are choosing to make a career in sex work. Just to make it clear, I don't find anything wrong with sex work. As long as you're of legal age, no one's pressuring you, and you're not

pressuring others into this line of work without educating them on the very real dangers of this industry I don't see a problem. Nobody's in danger. You should be able to do what you want to do with your own body and I find nothing wrong with making money off your own body. I mean technically aren't we all selling our time and body for compensation for our bills in one way shape or form when you really boil it down? I do think that sex work is becoming more accepted, but there's still a lot of discrimination. There's still a lot of discrimination and very unique set of dangers that sex workers face

on a day-to-day basis, and those are huge problems. But that's another topic for another day. That's not what we're talking about today. Because majority of independent, healthy sex workers do not have pimps. They will never engage with a pimps. They will never meet a pimp most likely. Sex work and pimps can be completely independent

of each other. It's not like you need a pimp to be in sex work. Today, we're mainly talking about the world of sex trafficking, which I think is a completely different category than sex work, if I'm being honest. Independent sex work is a legitimate industry that is a career choice and can be a very lucrative career path for some people. Trafficking and pimping, it's a completely different thing.

It's the opposite of safe, it's the opposite of healthy sex work, it's straight up exploitation. A study from the United Nations estimated that nearly 3.8 million adults and one million children were victims of forced sexual exploitation in 2016 around the world. The number is probably much higher now. The profits from forced sexual labor are estimated at $99 billion worldwide, with women and young girls accounting for a majority of the victims. I mean, these are the statistics that you can find online, and they're incredibly alarming.

According to World Without Exploitation, that it said that 92% of traffic women in one study reported being subjected to violence, such as being shot, strangled, burned, beaten, stabbed, or punched, 55% of these women suffer from PTSD. A Chicago-based study talked to clients of sex workers and a whopping 43% of sex buyers in Chicago believed that if they pay for sex, the sex workers should do anything they ask. And in the same study, they found that 47% of the young traffic

women were raped by pimps or by clients. And this is really sad because 23% of young sex workers that were trafficked considered their pimp, their boyfriend, and their protector. So a pimp is literally anyone who takes money from sex workers in exchange for something. In a more balanced world, pimp's would be like agents. So you know how movie starts of agents that get them, you know, bookings

and they get them these deals. They take a percentage of that, help them procure bigger and bigger deals, things like that. That's kind of what a pimps should be doing. But that's not what really happens, at least in most situations. And before I get canceled for offending pimps, like fine, okay, be offended,

I'm sure that there are some pimps that do take a balanced cut for their services that don't exploit these women. But I would be willing to bet that there are a lot more pimps that are just out here to make money off of women. So pimps will tell sex workers that they will provide housing, transportation, protection from briefest, other pimps, and gangs. Then they will sell this idea that they're a family. Like, it's some sort of cult.

And if you're like, well, I would never do that. I would never take on a pim, but. Why would I just do it myself? If I'm the one providing the services, why would I be stupid enough to give my money to someone else? I'm smarter than that. But it's kind of like a cult. We can all sit here all day and talk about we would never be so dumb to fall for this cult leader.

But we don't really know until we're in that position and we are at our most vulnerable. Pimp's are amazing at picking out which potential victims are going through the roughest time of their lives. The ones that just ran away from home, the ones that have a drug dependency, have had a childhood of abuse and have no authority figure to run to. They've got self-esteem issues. They will sniff all of that out and use it against them.

Pimps are master groomers. They use a variety of psychological methods and manip it against them. Pimps are master groomers. They use a variety of psychological methods and manipulations to recruit sex workers, the most common being, they will straight up have a romantic relationship with you. You think you're dating someone so kind, so smart, so engaging, so attentive to you,

not like other guys, and he's wealthy. He's showering you with gifts, he has money, he has a high paying job, and slowly, this man showering you with gifts. He has money. He has a high paying job. And slowly, this man starts manipulating you. You start thinking, I'm at my lowest right now. I don't have a home. I don't have anyone in my life. I'm addicted to drugs.

What does he see in me? And he keeps telling you, no, no, you're perfect. And he starts slowing saying things like, you know, all my friends are sex workers. And that's just how life is. People will take advantage of your body, because you a woman and I hate that I do, but it's the way the world goes around. You might as well make money, right?

You might as well make money off of them. Or maybe you'll have other sex workers that are friends with this so-called boyfriend that come to you and talk to you about how much money they're making, how independent they've become, how great their life is working under this guy. He's amazing, so protective, truly change their lives. They'll pressure you to just dip your toe into the pool. One toe, it's not gonna hurt.

If you don't like it, we can stop there. Come on, the water's warm. Aren't you even a little bit curious? And you're so down on your luck right now. You're near rock bottom. I mean, what could be worse? Maybe this pool could change your life. So you look around at all these nice smiling faces

that just seem so supportive and they want to embrace you for who you are. And you've never seen that before. So you turn back to see the shimmering blue water in the night sky. And you know what, it does look warm. The idea makes sense. The logic is there. So you take a deep breath

and you slowly balance yourself to tip one toe into the water. And that friendly guy, that guy you were falling in love with, that girl that was so kind to you and told you how amazing her life is now, they both push you in before your toe even touches the water. And now you're flopping around, basically drowning, water up your nose in your eyes.

You feel like you're closer at thousand pounds weighing you down. You feel like it's made of cement. Maybe you should just stay in, because imagine how hard it is to jump out of the water. Besides what are you going to do? Walk into the police station soaking wet. The officers are going to blame you. Why were you standing so close to the pool with people you just met? Is it even your pool or were you trespassing?

Do we need to arrest you today? You can't tell people around you because they don't care and what about those strangers? No, they're too scared of you. They think even just being near you is going to get them what? They don't want that. They don't want water on their hands. So maybe it is easier. Maybe it's safer to stay in the water. I mean, it's freezing cold, but sometimes it can be warm, right? And that's how the pimps get you by grooming you.

Pimps said that they try to seek out and recruit victims with huge vulnerabilities. Once without strong community ties, someone that doesn't have a sense of identity or a safe place to live. And they convinced these girls that they have to have the power to choose to be participants in their own exploitation. And now the business models that PIMP's use, I mean it varies depending on the PIMP. Some PIMP said the two biggest challenges are recruiting girls. You know, you just can't take anyone that's willing. You gotta take girls that are gonna get top dollar.

You gotta get the good ones that clients are looking for. So that means we gotta spend most of our time recruiting in our social circles, our neighborhoods, clubs, bars, we go to other neighborhoods, maybe we hit the internet, look on social media, we go to the malls, the train stations, just anywhere where you can find a lost girl. And then from there, controlling your employee's behavior is hard. You know, it's all a mental game. Some pimps believe that the girls should not get a single penny of the money that they make. It's not even like an agent for a singer who gets a percentage of the money they bring

in, these girls get nothing. A pimper who is interviewed said, if these girls even had a dollar, they would blow it. You know, I am a good bookkeeper. So what I do is I take their money, I take my percentage for protection services and transportation services and all of that. I'm managing them. And then I provide free housing, food, clothing, like whatever they need. So they never touch a single penny of money. And they spin it as if this is good for the girls. Another Pint was just very straightforward. He said, yeah, these girls, they don't get to cut or anything. Because the reason that you don't give them their own money is because suddenly they'll

feel like, oh, I could just keep all of this for myself. Yeah, the PIMP is implying that these girls would get greedy and want some of their own money, or rather all the money that they themselves have earned. Other PIMP said that they take anywhere between 25 to 75% of the earnings. PIMP said that they use sleep deprivation to create dependency and to motivate their employees. They will motivate their employees with material goods, by denying material goods. And in terms of revenue, many PIMPs agreed that they usually require quotas, anywhere from making $400 to $1,000 a day, depending on the day. And actually, Atlanta is one of the biggest hubs of sex trafficking in the United States,

and it's said that these pimps in Atlanta will make close to $30,000 or $40,000 a week. What? Yeah. Pimp said it's great to favor the high earners and ignore the lesser earners because it creates a competitive environment. But there's a structure to all of this. It's wild. Pimp said, you know, we're so busy.

We're busy all day managing the girls, recruiting more girls, arranging dates, collecting money, seeing to the needs of the employee. We're so busy that we need to have a partner in crime. So usually that's what we call the bottom girl. Now, I know it sounds like it wouldn't be as good because it sounds like you're at the bottom of the food chain, right?

But you want to be the bottom girl. Technically,, right? But you wanna be the bottom girl. Technically, you're top dog. You run the whole show, you help collect the money, you know how to do everything the pimple would, you do accounting, you pay rent, you train new employees, you perform administrative work, you recruit new girls, you spy on the girls. Make sure none of them are acting up.

I mean, this all sounds so miserable, right? So why do the girls stay? Well, they have no money. They've lost trust in anyone that can help them. Even though they're being trafficked, oftentimes the girls are the ones being arrested for soliciting for sex work. You think that they've had pleasant experiences

with the police who are like, we just wanna help you get your life back together. You think so? I don't think so. Oh, and yeah, a lot of cops are also clients, according to a lot of girls. So, who can you really trust? Maybe they're terrified for their own lives. They have limited knowledge of what resources are out there to help. And on top of that, add to the unhealthy trauma bonds that they have formed, not just with the PIMP, but also the other

girls. It's a lot. And let's just say they leave. Where do you think they go? You know, they have no money, they have no home, they have no food, they have nothing. And at this point, they don't even have their sanity in a lot of cases. A redditor eloquently put it as, PIMPs are mental, emotional, and physical abusers.

A person never really chooses her PIMP. Even if it appears like she does, it's never a choice. It's always a combination of circumstances that forces them to remain with a pimp. To put it simply, pims are predators. They're praying and taking advantage of vulnerable people in one way or another. They target their victims strategically, groom them, then deprive them, starve them, beat them many times, rape them, and in very scary situations, they will even hold the victims' children hostage so that she continues to work. And it's not like it's easy to leave, you're

facing homelessness, violence, threats against you, and your family's lives if you choose to leave. So to end this rant with, the people who are abused by pimps are vulnerable people who never chose to have a pimp. They were often coerced and fell into it because a lot of different variables and these circumstances have nothing to do with sex work itself. It's more like sex trafficking, to which someone commented, in this boggles my mind, okay,

because this is on Reddit. Somebody commented, well some girls need pimp's, not all pimp's are bad. People are people. There are all different types of people and aspects of life working all different types of jobs. As someone who is greatly stigmatized based off the work I do, I refuse to stigmatize other people for the work that they do. What? I have never been so shocked that we can now sit here and be offending pimps. Guys, I'm so shocked at this. So like I guess this

is my disclaimer to not offend any pimps out there. If you've got someone that's managing you in the sex work industry, taking a cut of your earnings, they provide industry knowledge and tip security. They screen clients before dates, they help with accounting. Maybe they provide some sort of protection. That sounds like an agent or a manager. That doesn't sound like a pimp. So today we're focusing on the victims of predatory pips.

Victims who don't really want to work under their pips, who don't feel protected, who are abused, treated horribly facing violence and threats. So that's the story today. And we're talking about a case that happens in the US, but this happens everywhere. Anywhere there's human trafficking, which I don't think there's an inch of this world

that doesn't have people being trafficked. Anywhere there's human trafficking, which I don't think there's an inch of this world that doesn't have people being trafficked. Anywhere there's human trafficking, there are ruthless pimps waiting to take advantage of women. Which you know, I do have to beg the question, just food for thought. Why is it that so often a traumatized broken man will leave a trail of abused, wrecked, and dead woman behind them? It seems like for everyone traumatized man, we cover, I mean, there's just dozens of traumatized women who are abused. Just food for thought.

So Robert Beck was born as Robert Mappin and he legally changed his name to Robert Beck later. And then Robert Black, like this guy has a million names. And later he's famously known as iceberg slim. Iceberg slim actually makes a ton of appearances, a ton of appearances in a lot of songs by even two pop. I think even Kanye mentioned him once. Like the guy is big. He's famous. He's very famous for just being like a pimp, like one of those street life dudes. Yeah. He's very interesting. Yeah.

He's almost become like a cultural icon at one point. I don't know. The whole thing is interesting, not to be confused with iceberg lettuce. I know I guess I'm just kidding. Iceberg slip. Now, I'm just going to call him Robert for consistency. Robert said he wrote the book, Pimp, his autobiography, his memoir, as a way of coping with his own guilt and his own regret. He had hated what he had done with his life. He didn't feel proud of his life choices. He hoped that one day he could win the respect of people by being a good human, adding some

good into this world. He said, I just wish I could become a decent example for my children, and for that wonderful woman in the grave, my mother. If I'm being honest as the book goes on, it's progressively more difficult, if not nearly impossible, to sympathize with Robert. But in the beginning, it's very easy, because Robert had a rough childhood. His mom grew up in a small town in Tennessee. She was very young when she met Robert's father.

Robert said that she was a virgin when they met. And I'm not sure if that means like she was super young or if he meant it literally. But anyway, she ends up getting pregnant with Robert really quick, just straight off the bat. And her whole family is like, you got to marry this guy. Like, I get it, you're young, you barely know him, you don't want to marry him, but this is the right thing to do. Side note, there's a bit of a sadder reason for them urging her to get married. Robert's mom was one out of 10 kids, and the family was not doing well. So a lot of people thought that they were relieved to have one less mouth to feed if she got married. So Robert's born and his parents are obviously struggling.

They're not even, they don't even know each other. They're so young. They're, there's not a single happy moment between them. They were stressed from the get-go. Neither of them had formal education or job experience. They barely kept a roof over their heads. Any extra money that they had to put towards a savings account or for an extra loaf of bread, Robert's dad would take it and blow it on sex workers and gambling. So listen, some people say getting married young is a mistake,

but I think marrying someone you don't know for a while is the bigger mistake. Young or old, because you never know what their true bad side is, and you just might find them doing your coworker in the stock room on a sack of potatoes, literally humping each other on a sack of potatoes. Robert's mom was pissed. She started throwing things at her cheating husband and her coworker. She's throwing potatoes even, needless to say, they were all jobless after the incident.

All three of them. Now the couple are sitting in their apartment jobless after the incident. All three of them. And now the couple are sitting in their apartment jobless and they don't know what to do. Unemployment just hits differently when you have a child's feet. So I get that. But I don't think that most fathers would suggest leaving the baby on the doorstep of the Catholic Church. I feel like that's not how parents cut corners when they're, you know, financially strapped for cash.

Robert's mom was obviously pissed. She's like, how dare you even bring this up as a suggestion? Are you absolutely bonkers? No, you're not throwing my baby on the church doorstep. Robert's dad retaliated by throwing Robert against the wall, literally hurling one-year-old baby Robert against the wall. Somehow he ended up surviving but his dad walked out on the family that day.

He's like, I don't want anything to do with this. I wanted to leave him on the church doorstep. So Robert's mom, she's picking up the slack, she's determined. She's like, I gotta make sure my baby doesn't end up on the church doorstep. She buys a few basic beauty supplies. Raps baby Robert in a little blanket, it's winter time. And she started going door to door. beauty supplies. Raps baby Robert in the little blanket is winter time. And she started going door to door.

She had the nice little baby in her hands and a little bag of beauty supplies. And door to door, a nice housewife would open up and Robert's mom would say, she was really eager. She would say, ma'am, I can have your hair curly and beautiful. Please just give me a chance. For a 50 cents, that's all I ask. I will make your hair shine like new money. Why am I crying? Okay. She's really trying. And usually the side of baby Robert and her arms just soften these women up. And maybe it's the fact that it was near Christmas

time. And through her small business venture, Robert's mom was able to support both of them. And eventually she starts working for a laundry mat. I mean, it was a tough choice, but child care was a bit more affordable back then. So she hired a babysitter. She's like, okay, you gotta look over three-year-old Robert while I go to the laundry mat for my shift. And this is when Robert formed his earliest childhood memory.

So most kids, their earliest childhood memories include playing in the dark, playing with friends, with dolls, getting treats, or birthday presents, you know, the usual stuff. But Robert's first memory was being molested by his babysitter at just three years old. He's at the memories weren't vivid, but there were bits and pieces, and they all came together in this nightmare puzzle. He remembered feeling uncomfortable anytime his babysitter came around, but he could almost feel her excitement towards him. It was palpable. He remembered being forced to perform oral sex on his babysitter,

and his mom found out. She walked in on it. I can't even imagine how horrifying this whole thing must have been for Robert, but also for his mother. And then tragedy struck again. The laundry mat where Robert's mother worked burned down. So now she's young, single, broke, has no support system, has no idea how to even address the trauma that her three-year-old had just lived through. They probably felt like life was over. Everything felt like the laundry mat.

Everything was just gonna crash and burn. But in the thick fog of despair that they're facing, it said, you know, Robert said it was almost like an angel. A tall black angel walked through the fog and reached out his hand to the family. His name was Henry Ubshaw. He was a wealthy business owner from Rockford, Illinois, and Henry was madly in love with Robert's mother. Just saw her walking by was like, I love this woman.

Love it for a sight who is she. I need to treat her like royalty. And he did. Henry treated Robert and Robert treat her like royalty. And he did. Henry treated Robert and Robert's mother like royalty. He would even be informally adopted as Henry's son. He was free to call him dad or father. If he wanted to, of course, you know, no pressure. Henry showered Robert's mom with whatever her heart desired, name, brand, clothes, nails, hair, facials, whatever she wanted. Robert described Henry as being religious, ambitious,

good, and just so, so kind. He was the father that Robert never really had. He was the one person that Robert grew to respect so deeply. Henry had pulled them up out of poverty literally, dressed them in nice clothes, took them to church, and he cared about them. He was genuinely patient with them. They were living the good life now in this upscale, wealthy neighborhood. Are you kidding? Robert was even happy to see his mom's dreams come true. She had always talked about owning a beauty shop. And thanks to Henry signing every single check, it happened.

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For money, for drugs? Whatever was in there. Why aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? No. Who's going to catch us? What a police. It was the height of the crack era and instead of locking up drug dealers, some New York City cops had become them. I would suit up in my uniform and we're gonna want some drug dealers and I know how to do it really well.

This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal in NYPD history and the investigation that uncovered it all. Did you consider yourself a rat? 100% I saved my soul just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set, an Odyssey originals documentary podcast series available now in the Odyssey app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a big guy man, but I love being that dirty mother f***er. The beauty of salon was located in the red district, and the primary clientele were sex

workers and their pimps. Robert would even have a little job shining shoes. He was 10 years old and having an absolute blast. His biggest joy in life was getting a tip from a customer. He felt like his hard work had just paid off. And then one night, Roberts had his life changed forever. He was helping close the store. Henry had come to get them.

His mom was in the back. And Henry called Roberts' name in the most pain-filled voice that he had ever heard. Bobby, and without warning, Henry walked over and pulled Roberts in for the tightest tug that he had ever heard. Bobby, and without warning, Henry walked over and pulled Robert in for the tightest tug that he had ever had. Bobby, you know I love you and Mama, right? Don't you know that? And he was crying into Robert's hair. I mean, it was so weird.

Robert had always seen Henry as this patient, stable adult in his life. And to just see him unravel and break apart in Robert's tiny little arms, he was kind of shocked. Yes, Daddy, yes, of course. We love you too, Daddy, we always will. You and Mama don't ever leave me, right? You know, Bobby, I ain't got nobody else in the world, but you too. I just could not go on with my life

if something ever happened to you. Don't worry, Daddy, we're never gonna leave you. I promise, honest to God, Dad. Like, don't worry. Robert was a literal child. He did not pick up on the fact that something was clearly wrong in the relationship between Henry and his mother. He was shocked the next morning when he woke up to his mom packing their bags. Henry was literally crawling behind her, grabbing her legs, begging her to stay. Robert said he never forgot the icy look on his mother's face, while she continued packing and kicking Henry to the side.

What happened? Robert's mom had fallen out of love with Henry, and in love with a pimp named Steve. From the beauty salon. He was, Steve was a horrible person, that's really all I can say. Steve convinced Robert's mom to ask Henry for $2,500 and to leave him and go on the run with him, which they blew through that money in like a week. So Robert's mom is like, yeah,

we're gonna go live with Steve now. And Robert hated Steve. He hated his mom for wanting to be with Steve over someone like Henry. I mean, Steve pulled Robert to the side on day one and said, listen, you little motherfucker, I'm gonna beat your little ass if you don't run away. You better leave me and your mom alone. I'll kill you, do you hear me? Who does that? And when Robert had rescued a little kitten, it peed on the

kitchen floor because you know it's a freaking kitten right? Steve freaked out, grabbed the kitten by the tail and started slamming the kitten against the table and the concrete walls until it died a cruel, slow, painful death. Roberts said he threw up everywhere at the side of that and just cried. He worked himself into a frenzy and just started screaming, I hate you, I hate you, I hate mama, I hate mama, I hate you! And they just disregarded him as if he was a little kid throwing a tantrum. And that was the moment that I think.

Roberts decided he would never really forgive his mom for leaving Henry. Whether it was a choice or a conscious choice, I don't know, I think it's up for debate. Even decades later, when Robert would visit his mom's grave, he said he would sit with her and tell her, Mom, it's not your fault. You were a dumb country girl and you didn't understand. I was your first and only child and you couldn't have known how important Henry was to me. To you he was ugly, but to me he was, he was beautiful to me. I loved him and I needed him and I wish you could have seen past his ugly face and loved him a little and just stayed with him. So Henry was a little bit older and he was an attractive. So Robert's mom ended up leaving him for someone who was younger and more fit and more attractive.

He told his mom at her grave, we could have been happy, you know? Our lives could have been different, but I don't blame you, I still love you. So Robert says he doesn't blame his mom, but I feel like he did. I just know it's complicated, you know? He says he loved his mom,

but it feels like there's some deep rooted hatred there, a hatred that would lead to Robert's desire to become a pimp and to be a violent pimp at that. And he just really loved abusing woman. I also think that Steve was a horrible influence on Robert. I- the guy just needed a stable father figure. Instead he was forced to live with the guy that threatened to kill him just for existing, killed his kitten, and then got violent whenever things didn't go his way. And it's not like Henry could still be in Robert's life on the side, I'm sure he would have wanted to, but he passed away less than a year after they left. It's that he had health complications that were exacerbated by his grief.

Wow. Now, back to Steve. After three and a half years, Roberts Mom finally had enough. She packed their bags in secret, ran away in the middle of the night, and literally it was Roberts' 14th birthday. They're hiding out in a hotel room, like a motel room, trying to decide what to do next. They're terrified that Steve is going to try and find them. Roberts Mom promised she was going to go out, run some errands, and come back with a cake.

But she didn't. Instead Steve found her, tracked her down, beat her up as revenge for leaving him. She would be admitted to the hospital for days. Robert could not stay in the motel room because he couldn't afford it. He was so scared and so terrified he remembered that those days without his mom, he spent them under an underneath a stairwell holding an ice pick. Jumping at every little sound that he heard.

This is when he's 14. Listen, we've already talked about how chronic stress on kids has devastating effects on their development, their brain, their behaviors. I can't even imagine what it's going to do to Robert. It's not an excuse for his behavior later on, I'm just saying, like this is rough, this is traumatic. So when they finally get away from Steve, I'm just saying, like this is rough, this is traumatic. So, when they finally get away from Steve, Roberts is just trying to have a normal school life now, and his primary focus was on losing his virginity.

He was almost obsessed with it. He decided it had to be now. So when his girlfriend was taking too long, deciding whether or not she wanted to lose her virginity, Roberts straddled her and started punching her in the face. So this guy is showing violence from the get-go, like since he's young. Thankfully her dad hears runs and sends Robert running for his life, and this is when he's only 15 years old. He was beyond sexually pent up, he would even sneak behind a local brothel and peep through

the windows. He said one time, he saw a couple and another man walk into the room. He had a pretty good view, he could peer inside. The husband and wife were paying the other guy to screw the wife. This was their fetish, which, you know, no judgment, it is what it is. When the other guy took off his pants, Robert heard the husband say excitedly to his wife, oh honey, can you believe the size? Can you believe the beauty of it?"

And he turned to the other man and said, all right now, stab it into her, hurt her, punish her, crucify her, good boy, good boy. Robert said he watched in horror as the woman cried out in pain. She said he felt bad for her. She didn't seem to enjoy it. In reality, he had no idea what sex was.

She actually was loving it. He just didn't know that those it. In reality, he had no idea what sex was. She actually was loving it. He just didn't know that those were like sex faces, I guess. But the whole thing just left this really strong impression on him. He said the husband was running up and down the bed around the bed, cheering on the gladiator that was fork in his wife. He said it was so strange to him. The whole thing was strange. And when they were done, the couple left, and the other guy was outside smoking a cigarette. So Robert approached him and started talking. He learned that his nickname was party time. Robert would never learn his real name.

So party time is the true definition of a hustler, as Robert called it. He made money in whatever way possible. Just anything that was lucrative, semi lucrative, party time would be there. His specialties were sex and conning people, but his gift was doing both at the same time. Yeah, party time was nice though.

He gave Robert a cigarette and the two talked for hours. Party time was treating Robert like a little student and training. And then before he left, he said, Robert, you wanna try to make some money? Yeah, what's the big business idea? Well, it's a little off the wall, but I think it'll work. It involves a little red dress from the Salvation Army, some red heels, and a wig. So Robert, he was tall and skinny.

Party time thought that if he stood in the shadows, he could easily pass for a girl with the dress and the wig. Party time would pretend to be his pimp. And he'd say, hey, you see my girl back there? You like what you're seeing? All right, 20 bucks. A guy would give him 20 bucks, and they would just run. That was their big plan.

To just outrun these potential clients. Listen, it's not the best business idea I've ever heard. I feel like the margin of error here is really dangerous. Yeah. And it didn't turn out to be a unicorn or the next IPO, okay? The second person that they conned is this really big dude who was really upset by being conned out of $20. So he grabbed party time and started knocking the daylights out of him.

It was really bad. Robert freaked out. He ran off. He didn't know what he should have done. He knew that he probably should have helped because party time looked like he was going to die. But the kid is 15 and he was too scared so he ran. Party time was arrested, and since he had a record, he was giving multiple years in prison, and he never snitched on Robert. Wow. Robert took this whole incident as a wake-up call.

This was the universe telling him to knock it off, focus on school. Which side note, Robert was really, really smart. He didn't try, but his grades were really good, even when he was distracted outside of school. His IQ was 175. What? Yeah. That's beyond genius. Yeah, he graduated high school at 15 and was offered a full-ride to college, which is

mind-blowing. I can't help but wonder if Robert was born into a nice little suburban family. Would he be a Fortune 500 CEO today? Yeah, but that's what they say when you're too smart. Yeah. Just goes down. Exactly. And it's a wild, you know, because 175 is too smart.

Most Fortune 500 CEOs are said to have an IQ of around 128. It's a little low, don't you? Just to add some more sexism into the world, female CEOs are said to have a more gifted IQ overall on average. They come in at around 132. Listen, I know IQ means nothing. I'm just saying, the guy was really smart.

He was just super unfocused. I mean, no, he was focused just on the wrong things He just wanted to sleep with girls So in college he stopped studying and he just tried to sleep with anyone who had given him a chance It's said that his favorite spot was in the bushes around campus But ironically he would bring different girls to the same bushes And I guess sometimes his other girlfriends would walk by and reminisce about how they just did it in the bush and then, you know, the bush would shake, shake, shake. They're like, that's weird.

Why is the bush shaking? And they would open up the bush and their Robert is sleeping with another girl. It said that one of these girls even attacked Robert right there in front of everyone in the middle of campus. But these girls weren't even Robert's biggest problems. Robert was obsessed with money. I think also it comes from a background of lacking. You know, it's really hard for someone to say,

oh, money is in everything. We ought to try growing up without it. Anything to make money, he was going to try. So drugs, he started selling drugs. Sophomore Year of College, he gets busted. He's expelled, and his life was headed even more downhill from there. Robert had no choice but to go back to his home to his disappointed mother who really thought that Robert was her chance that Robert would pull them out of poverty, she had put all

of her hope onto Robert and now here he was. And he felt like a failure. So he starts hanging out with a neighborhood man named Diamond Tooth Jimmy. You're like, what a weird thing name. Well, okay, I guess if you don't see the diamond tooth that he wedged in between the gap of his true front teeth, he like forced it up there. So both of his teeth were rotting and the diamond itself

looked like it was rotting for somebody's... They had all seen better days. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You see, Diamond Tooth Jimmy used to be a pimp, and he would sit there and talk for hours and hours to Robert about his glory days. This is the thing.

Never trust an uncle talking about their glory days. It's probably not even true, OK? But Diamond Tooth Jimmy is really romanticizing his career. He made it seem like, and I quote, beautiful whores would just get down on their knees and tearfully beg me to take their money. What? So that's the picture Robert gets out of pimping. He's like, wow, I'm like they're Lord and Savior, they want me to have their money. Is too good of a sight to pass up? Are you kidding? I'm like 16. I got my hormones raging. Just the sound of beautiful whores enough to do it.

Are you kidding? Robert's like, I gotta see it with my own two eyes. I need to feel that type of power So he turns 17 and he's dating a 15 year old at the time named June and he goes home after these hyped up Conversations with Diamond tooth Jimmy and he's like hey, June. Do you love me? Yeah, of course I do would you do anything for me? Yeah, of course I would would you even get into sex work for me? I mean I said I would do anything for me? Yeah, of course I would. Would you even get into sex work for me? I mean, I said I would do anything for you. So then it settled. She was going to be his first girl in his roster. And Robert ran out excited.

He found a random middle-aged dude and was like, Hey old man, you want to have sex with a 15-year-old for like five bucks? The guy was like, yeah, let's do it. Gives him the five bucks. Robert said at this rate, his brain was doing circles. He was so excited. He thought himself, this is too easy. He's gonna be rich.

He just had to do this over and over again with different girls. A career. Robert brings the old man to June. And what do you know? Robert gets arrested. Who was a cop? No, the old man's not a cop. No, the old man's not a cop. No, the old man's not a guy with morals.

He genuinely was down for sex with an underage girl. But when he walked into the room, he's like, Hey, aren't you a so-and-so's daughter? Aren't you my friend's daughter, June? He knew June's father. So he couldn't go through with having sex with a 15-year-old, not because she was 15 What an ethical man, but because it was his friend's daughter and he didn't want to start something with his friend

So he turned Robert in and Robert was thrown in prison and he was further traumatized The guards separated the black people from the white people Robert was blocked by the way and the guards were The guards separated the black people from the white people. Robert was blocked by the way, and the guards were definitely racist. They took any chance that they could get to take out whatever anger or power trip that they had on the black prisoners. Roberts said that his cellmate was nearly beat to death by a guard. It was the only time he had seen a guard so happy and smile was when they were beating his cellmate to an inch of his life.

The cellmate was dragged out of there and put in solitary confinement for physical aggression against an officer, which Robert said never happened. He saw the whole thing. The guards wanted to beat him up, and Robert would later walk by Oscar's new cell, and he was completely alone, and he had completely changed. Oscar was a new man. He was even skinnier than before. He looked like a skeleton. He just had these empty, vacant eyes. And Robert watched as Oscar with a little twinkle in his eye,

picked up his bucket that he was supposed to use to poo, thrust his hand inside, scooped up feces, smeared it onto his own arm, and proceeded to use the dirty to forearm as some kind of paint palette. In like a madman Picasso, he started dramatically painting the walls with his own feces, as if he saw a vision in his mind of the next artistic masterpiece. Robert was disturbed. He said he hated prison. He couldn't wait to get out.

He spent a lot of time reflecting on what to do when he got out, and I guess he learned nothing from his arrest, though, because he wanted to get out and become a pimp. He said he constantly imagined having a cell full of sex workers that worshipped at his feet and that he could boss around. That was his dream. Fantastic. He ends up getting out after eight months in prison. He was on parole, but you get it, he's out, and he said the fresh air felt so good it made him dizzy. And he was 18 now, ready to take on the world, make it his oyster. He moved in with his

mom and he started working at her beauty shop, and that is when he ran into the woman that would pee on his face and change his life. Pepper, I've it's it. Pepper was a fascinating character. She was a 25-year-old former sex worker, she was Asian. One of her wealthy clients liked her so much that he had proposed to her. Like this random rich dude. I promise to take care of her forever so that she never had to do sex work again and she definitely tricked her, okay she played him. She was like, yes, save me, I need saving. Meanwhile,

she would cheat on her husband all day every day. Roberts, at her voice, was indescribable. It was so sensual and incredibly enticing. He was hooked from the minute that he heard her talk. Pepper was a customer of Roberts' mom's store. And I guess she had placed a large order for a ton of beauty products and one of them delivered to the house. So Roberts' mom sends Robert. and he was just amazed at how nice the house is, whereas he wrote his little bike to deliver the order. Pepper's husband was rich rich. So he gets off his bike, knocks on the door, and Pepper opened up in nothing but white

lingerie. She explained that her husband was out on a business trip and to please come in. Robert said, Pepper did everything in the sexual book with him and a number of things not even listed. He said, it took me a week to get her pee out of my hair. Why? Why? Yeah.

He said it felt like she hated men and just took it out on men during sex. Like she has become very twisted and like just wants to beat up guys during sex. But also she taught him how to snort cocaine, so there's that side note. I guess at one point Robert thought he had maybe scored a sugar mama, so he decided to ask Pepper for some money. So he could buy a suit and maybe get a job. And she said, now you listen here, you little puppy. I don't give men money. I take it from them. Besides, you don't give men money. I take it from them.

Besides, you don't need a suit. I like you naked. And Robert said he was so mad. He slapped Pepper across the face. And I think that this has to do with him growing up in an environment where I'm sure Steve was very violent with his mom. Maybe he thought it was acceptable to just slap women across the face when they're mad. I don't know.

But he said, with superhuman capabilities that he had never seen before, Pepper lunged at him with such incredible speed and sunk her razor sharp teeth into his neck drawing blood. What? Robert said he was frozen and shocked in fear and everything. Pepper bit down so hard that he started bleeding and instead of getting

up and being like, don't you ever fucking slap me again. Pepper looked, there was blood dripping down Robert's neck and she went in and started licking it off and moaning. Like she got turned on by the blood. Okay, listen, Pepper was really freaky. I don't know what else to say. Pepper was really freaky. Robert said't know what else to say. Pepper was really freaky. Robert said that he was just 18, but he felt like an old man. He felt like Pepper had literally sucked the life out of him. He didn't know what to do. What?

So he went down to the local bars, ran into a pimp and started ranting. He's like, listen, weeping shorty. That's his nickname, which I signed down. I want to know the story of how he got his nickname weeping shorty. And he's like, listen, weeping shorty, that's his nickname, which is side note. I want to know the story of how he got his nickname, Weeping Shorty. And he's like, listen, Weeping Shorty, I need life advice. I heard you're good at what you do, and I got this girl, and I want her to work for me.

I want to pimper out. She's kind of crazy, though. I want to make some money off of her, you know? Huh? Who's the girl? Pepper. Pepper. Did you sleep with her?

Yeah, I did. So Robert tells him the gist of what happened. And weeping shorty says, yeah, no, it's too late for that now. And the language is very vulgar and I'm kind of paraphrasing, but weeping shorty said, the way that you start with a bitch is the way that you end with a bitch. You can start pimping a bitch and then date her if you want, but there's no way you can turn it around the other way. You can't date a bitch and then pimper out. It's just too late. You're the sucker in the relationship.

You don't have any advantage. You don't have the upper hand. You don't have control. You don't have power. Forget her and just start with a fresh bitch. Besides, can't believe you took your head out of pepper's ass for so long to look me up. How do you even find me? Robert's getting frustrated. He's like, okay, forget all of that. You mean that there's no way to

get any money out of Pepper? No, I didn't say that. I just said you couldn't pinp her out for money. A cold-blooded son of a bitch can always find a way to cross a bitch out of her money. And because timing is everything at that precise moment, one of weeping shorties' girls came up to the car window and it was raining really hard at this point. She's begging to be let in. Nobody was going to pick her up, she's soaking wet, she's complaining. And Weeping Shorty rolls down his window, practically spat on her and said, don't worry about the rain, walk between the raindrops, bitch.

And the girl was so mad she threatened to leave him. And he calmed down and he said, bitch, I will bet you money that you won't leave. And if you do, just know, I will find you, stick my knife in your stinking ass and gut you to your breastbone. And with that, he rolled up his window and drove off. And Robert said, but what if she actually leaves? And he said, check your mirrors. She ain't going nowhere.

And sure enough, Robert saw her getting back on the corner and whistling at passing cars. I told you she won't leave. She'll make me some money today. That's what she'll do. Anyway, about Pepper, you don't know the first thing about her. I like you, and I'm just gonna be honest with you. This is my advice. Forget Pepper, try with someone new. Pepper's rotten freak. You're not the only guy that she cheats on her husband with. I think I could name a half dozen guys who are with her. One of them is a fucking detective on the police force. If you ever found out that you were sleeping with her, was shame on you because you're asking for trouble. You're being a fool. Robert was really disappointed. Sure, he wanted to make money off of Pepper, but he also felt a twinge of disappointment

because he thought that they had something special. Then he found out Pepper was just going around peeing on everybody's face. He felt betrayed. So of course, Robert was on board when Weeping Shorty suggested that they blackmail Pepper instead. The plan was, Robert was going to have sex with Pepper in a hotel, that Weeping Shorty had already set up many cameras in the potted plants. Then, they were going to show her the footage and threaten to show it to her very wealthy

husband who would be devastated and probably leave her. Unless she gave them some money. And against Robert's better judgment, he agreed to the plan to get back at Pepper. And the plan worked. Robert had no idea how much weeping Shorty got out of Pepper, but his payout was $500. And he was excited until he hit the bars. And the detective showed up.

Started aggressively questioning Robert on where he was the night before. And well, they just met, so Robert didn't feel comfortable that he was being peed on last night by Pepper. He didn't feel comfortable telling them that. He said, uh, is that a friends? Oh, is that so? Does Robert know he's the other boyfriend? It seems like it because the guy is increasingly getting aggressive and saying, well, there's

woman named Pepper in her house who is burglarized and she said that she saw you coming out of the house. Now this is a complete lie. They were at a hotel. So it seems like somebody is, I mean, I'm assuming that Pepper is writing him out. And with that, Robert was arrested for a burglary and spent two years in prison for it. And this prison sentence really cemented the rest of Robert's life. Like, you know how the first prison sentence and maybe all these little small things, I felt

like Robert always, he kind of knew better, but he went with the flow, even with the black mailing of Pepper. But this time, in prison, he said it was drilled into his head by fellow inmates. The life lesson that he needed to learn, which was always remember out there, you're either a sucker or a hustler. The choice is yours. There's no in between. You're either paying for sex or you're making money off sex workers. That was kind of the toxic life lesson, that's not even a life lesson that he's learning. And he said it would stick with him for the rest of his life.

And truly, he interpreted it as, I gotta be a pimp. So he gets out on parole, and he's daydreaming about pimping, literally dreaming about it. He said that the dreams always consisted of being a god. Like he's a god, and all of his clothes and shoes were made

out of solid gold, which I don't know, seems like an engineering feat all on its own. He said that he had beautiful whores. Yeah, he kept calling them whores, all around him kneeling at his feet, and they begged him to not kill them. But he would laugh and stab them in between their legs with a long stake, and they would thrash around splirting blood until they died. Roberts said the dream turned them on. Listen.

Robert and his dreams could be 9,843 separate therapy sessions. He said he had another dream. Frequently. This one he had repeatedly. It consisted of him with a barbed wire whip, a whip made out of chains of barbed wire. And there was a beautiful woman with silky hair kneeling next to him. He couldn't see her face, just her back. And he felt like he had to punish the woman, destroy the devil inside of her.

So he just passionately whipped her until blood gushed out of her back. And when she turned around, it was his mother. So I'm just saying, I do think that he harbors hatred for his mom. He says he doesn't. I'm just saying, I feel like he does. So Robert gets out and he starts hanging out at a pin-bone bar where a ton of pimps would come together, like a fucking networking event, I guess. And that's when he runs into Phyllis. Phyllis was 18 years old at the time. And honestly, I think she was at the bar looking to hook up with someone. I don't think she was looking for a pimp.

So Robert asked the bartender about her and said, and the bartender said, she's nothing but a whore. She doesn't have a man and she's a freak. She's Georgia at a ton of pimp since she got here. Okay, side note. Georgia means when a girl takes control of a pimp by sleeping with them and then the pimp really can't control her. If anything she'll like act like maybe she

wants you to be her pimp but then switch it around and then demand money when you have sex with her. She's like they're basically calling her a con artist or a scammer because she's looking for a one-night stand and not looking to become a sex worker. Wow. Yeah. What a con artist that one. So Robert tries his hand and he gets up and sits down next to Phyllis who is beautiful. She really is beautiful. And immediately he starts calling her a bitch. I mean, it was just an odd way of flirting. So Phyllis says, I'm not a bitch. I'm a mother fucking lady. God damn it. Like call me Phyllis. Be a gentleman and respect me. I'm a lady. God damn it, like call me Phyllis, be a gentleman, and respect me, I'm a lady. And the whole conversation was just basically Robert insulting her and degrading her,

which confuses me because he's trying to recruit her for work, and he's just insulting her, but then they do agree to work with him, so I guess the plan worked, I don't know. He would just say things like, you fucking bitch, you're all fake. There's no such thing as a lady in our world. You're either a bitch or a insert homophobic slur. Now bitch, what is it? And I'm not a gentleman, I'm a pimp. I'll kick your ass. You're a freaky little bitch. You like sex, and I'm a freak to money. This is going to be like the world's most censored podcast episode, I'm sorry.

And with that, Philist told him to come back to her place so that they could talk, aka, through the dirty. At one point, she leaned over and licked his ear, and he said that he loved it, but he didn't let it show. He needed the upper hand. So they hop into Philist's car because, guess what? Robert doesn't have one. And Robert drove Philist's car back to her place. Now, did Robert know that this is the first step

to being Georgia? I don't know. But when they get back, she's playing sexy music, she's belly dancing, and like, let's be real. She's beautiful, she's hot. And inside of Robert, there was this fight. One part of him is saying, just fork it, just do the damn thing.

And another part of him is saying, you have to act like you don't have a dick. Keep your eyes on the money, stay cold, stay brutal. Remember what they said? How you start with a bitch is how you end with a bitch. This can't be another pepper. If Robert let Philist have sex with him then and there she would have the upper hand. He would never be able to pin her out. It was all about control and he couldn't let her control the situation.

So he started getting aggressive with her and said, bitch, don't you put shit in my game? I don't know what that means. Business always comes first before pleasure. I'll take my clothes off when I know I'm taking them off with my whore. I'm not a sucker for the Georgia. Give me the money that you have in your bra. Phyllis stops dancing and looks bored and says, you're trying too hard. I changed my mind.

Get out. Robert said he felt a surge of anger and he stood up and kicked her down to the floor and kept kicking her over and over and over again until she couldn't even scream and she was only whimpering. He only stopped because his leg started cramping. Then he got down and whispered into her ear menacingly. It's do I have to kill you to make you my whore? Get up and give me the money. Phyllis was so terrified. She said, okay, please, just stop kicking me. But do I have to kill you to make you my heart? Get up and give me the money.

Phyllis was so terrified. She said, okay, please, just stop kicking me. I'll do what you want. But please, stop kicking me. And she handed over the money. And he forced her to have sex with him. Robert said that he used the skills that Pepper taught him and tied up Phyllis and put her through like four hours

of torture and sex. She blacked out four times. I'm assuming it was a lot more torture than it was sex. And when he was finished, he said, I want you on the street at six tonight or else, stay out of the bars, work the area around seven than Apple, I'm gonna come get you sometime tonight. You better be there when I show up

and you better have some money every time I come around or else. The next day, Phyllis gave Robert the title to her car. And just like that, he was officially a pimp. They had known each other for less than a week, and they had moved to Chicago. They got a dingy motel and a horrible neighborhood. Robert would hit the bars, and Phyllis was told to hit the streets. And one night, while Robert was driving around in his new Ford, aka Phyllis' car,

he saw a big crowd gathered on the street. He stopped, got out, and he wanted to see what it was all about. He wasn't horrified, I guess, just surprised to see a really big dude stomping his size 13 shoe onto an unconscious woman on the ground, while all these people are looking by and nobody is stopping him. He repeatedly kicked her in the stomach and the chest, She was out cold. She had blood coming out of her mouth. And when he was finally done, he scooped her out from the pavement and Robert said it was weird because the guy looked like he was crying. But he was the one essentially trying to murder this woman. He carried the woman off saying, babe, why

do you have to make me do this? Why couldn't you just work and stop bullshitting? And he took the woman to his car and sped off in the night. Which like, this really rubs me the wrong way because it's almost making it seem like, oh, the pimp really didn't want to discipline his worker. No, shut up. That's like, I don't even want to hear it. But that's kind of how he's laid out in the book.

Like, he didn't want to be the parent that had to teach the child a lesson using soft parenting. No, that's not. So Robert said he was confused. and he asked one of the people in the crowd to explain what the hell just happened. And this guy named Preston said, oh, they call him poison. He's got nine whores, and he's a pimp.

That girl is one of the nine. She got drunk with a client, but not a big deal. She's going to be out here before the sun comes up, hump in her ass off. They kept referring to sex work as humping. They never referred to women as women or even girls. I keep saying girls, but they would always refer to them as his, his horse and a stable.

Like I guess they were just calling it, like you would call a horse, you know, horses in the stable. I'm telling you, this book is, as a woman, it is nearly impossible to get through. But after what happened, Poison is still such a nice pimp, you know, that's what Preston said. Compared to what sweet Jones would have done.

You ever heard of Sweet Jones? Robert's like, of course, are you kidding? He's my idol. I've heard of Sweet Jones. He's been around for decades. He's like the biggest pimp in Chicago. I heard he's smart enough to handle 100 whores at a time. I just wish I could track him down and I just want one talk with him.

Like he could be my mentor. I want to know how he runs his empire. Are you out of your mind? First of all, you'll never be successful like him unless you lose your mind completely. You know he's already killed for other pimp's? The guy's not even human. He has this whores call him Mr. Jones. I mean, he's batty. It's crazy. He's a lunatic. Besides has his whores calling Mr. Jones. I mean, he's bad at crazy. He's a lunatic.

Besides, he hates young kids like you. I wouldn't trust him if I were you. What, my advice kid? And Preston goes on to tell Robert his story. That he came to town 12 years ago. He was a pimp. He had five whores with him. Blah, blah, blah.

He befriended sweets who got him hooked on heroin. And then sweets was like really hated Preston because Preston was Asian and it was like this whole thing anyway. Lord him into a false sense of security and right underneath his own eyes, in front of his own eyes, he stole every single girl from Preston and got Preston arrested with a huge stash of drugs. Literally set him up, snitch to the cops and Preston spent years in prison In prison he was withdrawing from heroin. He lost his hair his teeth everything when he got out he had nothing That's what sweets did to him. So yeah, you still want to be friend a guy like that?

Robert was like, yeah, I'm not Asian. Who cares? Like he hit you just said he hated you cuz you were Asian I'm not Asian so so that's fine. Besides, word on the block was that sweet only wanted white girls in his roster. So why would he try to steal Phyllis if Phyllis isn't white, you know? So I don't have anything to worry about. He was just reasoning with himself. Now Robert still wanted to pick the guy's brain, essentially. He thought sweets would love him and he thought that he would run the black girls

and sweets would run the white girls. That's what they call it, run the, run the girls. Well, run the horse. Fucking fantastic. So Robert goes home to Phyllis and at the motel, she's like, oh Daddy, like I'm so glad you're back. I was worried as hell. Where have you been? Do you still love me? Did you miss me? Like I would have died if something happened to you. And Robert felt so much rage in that moment. He punched Phyllis in the face. She fell backwards, bounced off the mattress, crashed face first, onto the floor, and he started kicking her. And she just asked, calmly, why, why are you doing this? And he spat at her. Bitch, if I have a hundred years, don't ever ask me where I've been. Don't even try to play that bullshit love con on me.

We're not squares. So squares, according to urban dictionary, means regular people who follow societal constructs. You know, they don't. Like, they have regular relationships. Like, I don't know, right? I don't know. OK.

He just said, we're not squares. So he's referring to squares as anyone that's not involved in the Pimp life and the sex work life is a square. Like, if you have a nine to five job, we're not square. So he's referring to squares as anyone that's not involved in the pimple life in the sex work life is a square. Like if you have a nine to five job, you're a square in Robert's eyes. If you only have one sex partner, you're a square, right? So he says we're not squares. I'm a pimple and you're a whore.

So get up and keep a cold towel on your eyebrow. You're bleeding. Phyllis did as she was told and Robert was happy with himself. But he didn't know that she would never forget this incident. She would never forget any incident of violence that was to come for years. In fact, she would tally up all the times that he abused her, and she would happily lay it all out in court seven years from now. Rightfully so.

But for now, she tried to stay on his good side. And part of that meant trying to recruit new girls for him. Robert told her, if you see a young girl out there, square, or a whore, I don't care, pull her, be friendly to her, build me up. You know, tell her how sweet and smart I am. Don't let no bitch pull you. The family needs some hers.

Don't bring no junkie bitch to me though. Meanwhile, Robert found a way to run into sweets at a bar, which sweets really was something. He pulled up found a way to run into Sweet Set a Bar, which Sweet's really was something. He pulled up in a convertible with four women in the car that all wore diamonds. The woman were beautiful and they were all listening to every word Sweet Set like he was some sort of God. Sweet Set come out with Miss Peaches, which was his favorite girl. A passerby told Robert that cat right there.

Yeah. Love when they just call his cats. That cat right there? Yeah, love when they just call his cats. That cat right there mispeaches. That's the only bitch he cares if they live or die. Don't mess with her or him. You know, he kills for fun, for recreation. So Robert watched as the group walked into the barn sat down. Sweet's was really tall.

He's like six-foot six, and his face was completely devoid of emotion. The girl sat there taking turns tripping over themselves, trying to get his attention, straight up feeding him, sips of his Coke, like bringing the Coke up to his mouth so he could take a little sipy sip, and they'd be massaging him. Robert was staring, analyzing.

And I guess someone in the group noticed, because he was called over. So he's too scared. He's too scared to even look at sweets in the eye. And sweet said, look at me when I'm talking to you. Do you know who I am? Robert looked up and said,

Sure, I know who you are, Mr. Jones. You're the black god of the sporting world. There's not a single person unless he's stupid that he hasn't heard your fame and heard your name ring. The reason I don't look at you is because I remember what happened to that sucker in the Bible that snitched at a peep. The woman broke out in the after. Sweet's grabbed Robert's chin and said, Where are you from?

You kinda look like me. Maybe I fucked your mom. Mr. Jones, I'm a nobody trying to be somebody in your world. I was born right here in your town. Could be my mom who went for you. What bitch, what hint? If I was a bitch, I would give you my money to get some. Sweet's thought it over and said,

This dog of mine, pointing at one of his girls, wants to sleep with you. I give my whores what they want So you're gonna sleep with her or not Robert shook his head. He knew it was a trap. He said Mr. Jones I don't want that unless it hangs from my own Where Mr. Jones? I'm a pimp just like you. I want nothing but just some pimp money. My principles are there I want to be great just like you. I don't care for parties I would never amount to anything if I screw up the rules of the pimp game. You're the Pimp on earth. Do you have any tips for a dumb Pimp like me just getting started?

He's really good at asking that's wow But it didn't work because sweets was offended that Robert denied one of his girls So he threatened to blow his brains out and have it splatter onto the ceiling Ah so That was their first reaction. It would be far from their last. They would actually become friends and have it splatter onto the ceiling. Ugh, so uh. That was their first reaction. It would be far from their last. They would actually become friends. So Robert decided he still needed help.

So he went to another well-known climp called Glass Top. Again, how does one procure such a weird nickname? Glass Top. So Glass Top starts giving him some advice. And they're at Glass Top's apartment, by the way, and they're sitting on the couch. One of his girls kneels down to take off glass tops shoes, and glass tops says, about his girl.

That's a good young bitch I got here. I copped her in Hawaii a year ago, she hasn't slept in over 36 hours. My other four whores have been humping down at Franklin Street since early this morning. Robert started asking glass top what he knew about sweets because now Robert was scared, he's like, what if I never get to work in town? What if sweets has me blacklisted? What if he wants to kill me?" And Glass Top laughed and said, sweets isn't dangerous.

He's never killed anyone but Asians. He's killed four of them in the last 20 years. He hasn't killed any of them in the past two years. He doesn't kill anyone unless they badmouth him or muscle his whores, as long as you're not Asian or white, you have nothing to be scared of. Just to put it into context though, sweets did have a reason to hate white people. I don't know why he hated Asians so I'm just saying. But anyway, he did have a reason to hate white people because he lived in Georgia.

His father was a farm sharecropper for a wealthy plantation owner. The son of the plantation owner decided that he liked Sweet's mom and he left her. So Sweet's dad came home and he was enraged. His wife was a complete wreck. Sweet's was like a little kid at this point and Sweet's dad was seven feet tall, three hundred pounds. Like this is not the type of guy that you ever want to see angry. He remembered his dad heading into the woods to track down the sun and beat him up near to an inch of his life. He didn't die, but he was nearly dead.

He crawled out of the woods and told everybody what happened. That night a literal mob showed up to take revenge on the sweet's family. Sweet's remembered seeing his dad getting beaten to a bloody pulp, dragged outside, and then his mom was ganged by the mob, and they were forced to watch. Sweets went to hide behind some furniture, and when everything quieted down, he came out from his hiding spot, and his father's body was swinging on a peach tree. All because his mom was raped. And I can't imagine again, like we don't like sweets now, but he was a young kid.

And sweet's mom completely lost her mind. She was hospitalized in a mental institution. Because think about it, think about getting raped. Something horrible, tremendous, evil, disgusting, vile human violates you. Your husband sticks up for you and you get gang raped and your husband gets murdered in front of your eyes. For what? To someone is, this mob is defending a beast.

Why? Because they're white and you're black. So sweets is taken into the plantation by the owner, not out of her morse, so that he could work the fields. He stayed till he was 17 and then he ran off and became a pimp. He only added white woman to his roster of girls and it said that sweets like to drive the woman mad. He wanted them to go crazy to take their own lives and he did it as some sort of sick revenge against white people.

So it's kind of the cycle that never stops. Glassdrop said, I'm not like that though. I don't have these demons that I'm hanging onto. You know, I grew up in the North, I didn't grow up in the South, so I grew up with a bunch of people. I don't hate anyone. People are people, I love all people, you know. So Glassdrop is black and he was like, you know, I like black people. I almost got married to a white girl, but her parents said no.

Anyway, that was fun. I'm just saying I like all people, but I'm a good person, because I like all people. I'm not racist like sweets, but can I just say something? Can I just say something? I do like to get my girls to commit suicide too. Yeah, what? Exactly. Okay, so Robert is intrigued and he's like, what do you mean?

Like, you just said you like all people and you said sweets like to drive white women mad to the point of suicide because he wants to Revenge on white people and then he kills Asian people because he doesn't like Asian people But then like what are you doing? You just said you like all people and he said let me give you a lesson Well the moral girl is working the streets the more unstable she gets She's like a ticking time bomb from the moment that she does her first client, the each client that she has the more mentally unwell she is. The older she gets, the more she's used up. Yeah, this is the way they're talking about literal woman that they themselves are forcing into this line of work. The more used up she gets, she loses value to us. Of course she does. But I can't just throw her out. I can't

just discard her, you know what I mean? I mean, sure I want to. That's the dream. But she could easily blow the whole charade to the cops. She knows too much. She knows how I operate. She knows where the girls are. She knows how much money we're making. You see the problem? You can't keep her. You can't cut ties with her. So what do you do? You drive her to suicide. So I personally like to get them hooked on heroin, you know, because the brain starts to turn to jelly slowly. And I'll start sneaking some morphine into her shots. And when she gets knocked out, I owe this my good one. I like to pour chicken blood all over her. And when she wakes up, I'll just tell her, oh my god, I brought you home from the streets. Like, did you fucking kill someone?

You were out there holding a knife. Why are you covered in blood like I've been hearing sirens? Glass top would brag. You know I got a thousand waves to drive them goofy. You see I'm all about business kid. I ain't got an ounce of hate in me. He sounds lovely. Great morals, not an ounce of hate.

Robert true thoughts so. Because ever since that point he started beating Phyllis more frequently and more intensely. He pressured her to find more girls for his roster, which the book always refers to them as a stable, like I said. And there's a lot more in the book about Robert's life stories and they're just... I don't even know why, but I'm in the book. I mean, I get it. I guess this is some sort of like way to get over his guilt, but... I guess he also just really wanted everyone to know that he's a raging misogynist, abused or homophobic racist, like transphobic person. It's just, I was shocked. I don't even think I can talk about the things that he

said he did. I just need to say I had no idea what I was getting into with this book. So anyway, I guess sweet saw something in Robert because he invited him to a few house parties. Gave him lessons, and he said, the first thing you gotta do kid is you gotta be icy. I see, I see, I see, you know, stop that fucking grinning you're always doing. Freeze your face and keep it that way. The whole party felt like a bunch of Andrew take carbon copies hanging out with one another. Sweet's made one of the girls perform oral sex on someone.

Meanwhile, all the guys were talking about how much they hate women, which is confusing because I'm like, okay, maybe you just don't like women. It's okay. And it was at this party that a sex worker named Red Cora jumped on top of Robert and tried to rip his clothes off. Robert tried to say no, but she got in his ear and said, you ain't no pimp. I'm gonna eat your ass up or chop off your dick, which one is it gonna be? Listen, these flirting methods are beyond me, but... Okay. She trapped Robert in the corner and sweet freaked out. Yangteroff and got up in Robert's face and said,

you're embarrassing me. Listen, you stupid little motherfucker. You know why that bitch is screwing you around? You're always grinning like a chess arcat. What's so funny, huh? What's so fucking funny? I can't make a pimp out of a pussy like you. I told you once, you have to tell you a thousand times, you gotta be icy to be a good pimp.

You gotta be cold like the inside of a dead horse of a jyna. If you're gonna act like a little bitch, I'll put you in some girls' clothes and you can whore for me. Is that what you want? Stay out of my face until you figure out how to stop sucker grinning. Robert said that was the moment he realized he needed to learn his lesson.

From then on he said he never smiled and he transformed himself. And it worked. With enough time, Robert was nicknamed Iceberg Slim. Iceberg for being so cold and slim for how tall and lanky he was. And from then on, Iceberg Slim got serious about his new identity. He never smiled, he tightened his reins on poor Phyllis. She was home sick one day and told slim that she needed a break. He didn't like that, but he didn't know what to do.

So he went to sweets who told him, you know, go easy on her. Woman art robots, she's working hard day in and day out to feed you while you do nothing like they deserve rest and kindness. No, of course he didn't say that. His exact words were, that young bitch you got is lazy. She's scamming you, that bitch ain't sick. I never seen a bitch under 20 that got sick. Your whore is bullshitting you

and you gotta have strict rules for your whore's. Or else, they think they rule the place. She has to respect you to hump her heart out on the streets. He encouraged physical violence with a pimp cane. A pimp cane is two wire co-tangers twisted into a whip. And he said, put pressure on the bitch. Act like you got more whores in other towns sending you money, which is need competition.

Phyllis was beat to an inch of her life, and she tried to bring home another girl, 18-year-old Ophelia. Phyllis talked her into wanting to work with Robert. Now, I don't know if the two were bisexual or if they were trauma bonding, but Robert said that they were always kissing and cuddling and spend a lot of time together. So Robert said he was in trouble. He was hurried to find another girl because he didn't want the two girls to get any ideas and run off together.

So he brings in Christine. Christine was unhappily married. She was really only married to her husband to get away from her father who was reaping her. And Leroy, the husband literally shortly after they got married, a boiler exploded in his face when he was working at the factory and pretty much shredded the his entire face, disfiguring him for life. Christine was pregnant with her father's child at the time.

She turned to sex work to support them and side-ode a ton of clients love that she was pregnant. So like, do with that what you will. But at the same time, Christine never really loved her husband and she just resented him more now, and she believed Robert was a millionaire and she believed that he was in love with her and he was going to save her. So she joined the quote-unquote family.

But sweets told him he's dumb. You need a fourth girl, pronto. Competition only works in teams. You just want two teams and your girls pick a team when they're new. Otherwise, Christine's gonna leave. Ophelia and Phyllis are gonna gang up on her and not in the way that motivates her.

She needs a partner. So Robert took in Joanne, and you know, it's easier to find more girls when you already have so many. So for a while, things are amazing for Robert and you know, it's easier to find more girls when you already have so many. So for a while, things are amazing for Robert and for Robert, nobody else. But who cares about women, am I right? Robert was making money doing nothing, really. Phyllis was his bottom woman.

She was doing the admin recruiting more girls, but as she's getting older, she was getting more and more possessive. She was very picky about which girls were being invited to join the quote-unquote family. And one time, when Robert threatened to hit her for not getting along with one of the girls, Phyllis lost it and she screamed, you were a nobody till you had me. You didn't even have a car. You beat me up for my car. I'm the bitch that made you great. Without me right now, you would be a little whore.

Robert kicked and punched her. It was last straw. Phyllis left with Ophelia and took two of the newer girls punched her. It was last straw. Phyllis left with Ophelia and took two of the newer girls with her. Robert was now down to five girls, but he didn't care. He still thought he was living the good life. His best friend was 70-year-old sweets. Yeah, sweet as his best friend. They would party, do cocaine, talk about their business empires.

Slim, Robert was only 28. But sweet was telling him, I don't know how you're parting so hard, I don't know how you're so confident. Phyllis was your day one, and she's gone. She's probably talking to the cops, that's be real. You beat her to an interviewer life, you think she's not, you think she's fine with that, she's just gonna move on.

In hindsight, Robert says he doesn't know if it was Phyllis or maybe even Sweet's, But the cops arrested him. Suits promised to look after his girls while he was in prison. Oh, yeah. So that's why he doesn't know if it was Suits or, you know, Robert was in prison for more than two years. When he got out, he had nobody. No girls, nothing.

So he resorted to armed robbery. And he was back in trial looking at another five to ten years but he escaped from prison before being sentenced. He ran off to join his aunt who was also scamming woman. She would wait in the alleyways for a guy to walk past, lift up her skirt and say, please, I haven't had sex in like six months, I'm burning up. And most men couldn't resist. But while they were about to get freaky, she would jack their wallet and say, oh no, I think the cops are coming, meet me here in 10 minutes,

but she would just run off with their wallet. It was good for a while, but Robert missed being a pimp. Listen, Robert says it's because it's all about the money. But that's on it. Let's be real, there's more than that. He wanted power, he wanted to be violent against women, he wanted to abuse women, and it would all come to bite him in the ass. He started pimping other girls, and one time he got so angry with the new girls that he shot her in the chest.

And thankfully she had large breast. It stopped the bullet from entering her heart, but Robert knew that he was pretty done for. He needed to go on the run. He was already a wanted man from the armed robbery charges. He was now going to be wanted for attempted murder. So he went to a fresh new city where he tried to recruit a girl at a party, but she was a square, as Robert put it. She refused to engage in sex work and Robert thought, that's fine, I'm sure I can just break her arm and scare her into it. So he broke her arm.

She went to the police and Robert was arrested. He was put in solitary confinement and he got out, he was 43 years old, and he said he decided to change his life. He moved to Los Angeles, changed his name to Robert Black, got married, had a few kids, worked as a salesman, wrote an autobiography along with many other books, one of them was adapted into a movie, he died from liver failure in 1992 in Los Angeles. Unfortunately, Robert did not live a happy life beginning to end. There's really nothing happy or positive to take from this whole case.

And just a quick disclaimer, right? This happened in the US and Robert was black and there is a lot of race involved, but that's Robert's story. The most depressing thing is it doesn't matter what race you are, it doesn't matter where you live. Sex trafficking happens everywhere. And you think that pimps are going to be different based on their geographical location, based on their nationalities, their ethnicities, their race you think so? I don't think so. I mean, this book really gets you.

It just makes you think a lot. And the worst part is, most of us probably live in a town where we don't see this take place. But just know that maybe one town over, two towns over, there are women being exploited everywhere. Maybe in your very town. And it's just a lot to think about. Like it's kind of like serial killers.

Sure, Robert had a rough childhood. Sure, he was trying to make something of himself when he was just surrounded by racism, drugs, and sex work, but it just makes you wonder, what did the woman ever do to deserve this? Most likely, these women grew up in similar if not worse conditions than Robert. They were being abused, they were being neglected, they were being traumatized, but they never turned it around and it started abusing people. Why is that? I don't know. The whole book is just one of those rare stories that makes you sit in silence for like 20 minutes

when you're done. Just no coherent thoughts, just wow. That is the story of Robert Black, iceberg slim. So if you ever see an iceberg slim reference, because at one point in time, he was glorified in some songs and some pop culture references, but nothing to glorify here. Not a good person.

I get it. There's nuance to the case. You know, there's racism. There's socioeconomic nuances, but I just wouldn't really call any pimp of any race so good person. And I hope you guys enjoyed today's story, and I will see you guys on Sunday for the mini-sode. Bye!

and I will see you guys on Sunday for the mini-suit. Bye!