Rotten Mango - #189: How a Foster Care Home Created a Monster Predator

Episode Date: August 14, 2022

There were always 12. 10 foster kids in the house at all times, plus the two biological children of the Baker parents. 12 kids. All 12 kids would grow up to see some heinous things. It’s alleged that the Bakers would force the foster boys to molest the foster girls in their care. It’s said that the Bakers would even force brothers to inappropriately touch sisters under their direction. Victims came forward to say they were assaulted weekly by Mr. Baker, and they remember being starved as a fear tactic. Most of these kids came out of the foster home as survivors, but one, one child grew up to become the predator. One that would prey on victims where they might be the most vulnerable - the church. Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to this week's mini-sode of Rotten Mango. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. Now the two women were walking into the hospital. One of them looked at her friend and said, you gotta be careful in there. Why? I thought everything was okay. Well, it is, but you have to be careful around him. Sometimes he's, I don't know, sometimes he just says and does some strange things. What? What does he just start praying

in the middle of a conversation or something? You said he's a preacher, right? Right. He is, but that's not the strange part. He's just kind of creepy. I don't know. Something's off about him. He might try to touch you. What?

He's not going to try and hit on me at the hospital where his one-year-old daughter is dying and his wife is crying by the bedside. No one would do something like that. Aaron was wrong. She was very wrong. He would do that. He would try to grow her and he would try to lure her into an empty hospital room so that he could have sex with her. In fact, he would do far worse. When the preacher was done, two of his family members would be dead and a trail of young teenage victims would be left behind. This is the

story of a sinister little minister. Okay. I'm angry. Sorry. Okay. religious trauma. Also, you guys know that this pod episode is not about religion. There's bad people in every community. It doesn't matter. And I feel like we always hear about stories of ministers, preachers, pastors becoming sexual predators. And it's not because it's not because religion itself I think that predators just look for authoritative positions of power where they won't be questioned where they can govern a group of younger people or women that's just their go-to so as always full show notes are available at

rottenmangopodcast.com but there is a book on this case called Deadly Little Secrets by But there is a book on this case called Deadly Little Secrets by Catherine Casey. One of the OGs of True Crime, Afe and Casterc author, I love all of her books. This isn't even as well known of a case, but I just have to say it's crazy. The details, the lives of these people, and the fact that like so many of the cases that we've covered, we would never look at these exact people at a grocery store, at church, or at school, and think, oh yeah, that's a killer right there. The book just makes you think about how much you really know the person that you're spending so much time with, or maybe even the person that you've looked up to.

It's terrifying. So let's jump right in. They had very different childhoods. So one of the most defining moments in Carrie's life happened senior year of high school. She had a health scare. It was the searing pain in her stomach that she had never felt before. It felt like something was shredding her insides apart with a knife. It was debilitating pain. Carrie stepped out as worried that she's having an appendicitis attack. He rushes her to the ER. Doctors look over her, look over her charts, and they try to find the best way to tell the two.

So, it's not an appendicitis attack. It's not an appendicitis attack. Care you're pregnant. We estimate that you've been pregnant for about seven and a half weeks, very early on, but likely impending a miscarriage. Carrie and her stepdad just sat in the room in shock and silence and Carrie just felt so much shame her cheeks are turning red. She didn't even know what to say. She felt like the biggest

disappointment in the whole freaking world. She turned to her stepdad and said, please don't think I'm a slut. He looked at her and he had a little glimmer in his eyes. He said, I don't think I'm a slut. He looked at her and he had a little glimmer in his eyes. He said, I don't think that, Carrie. I would never think that. And he hugged her while she's sucked. Carrie miscarried, but the event would have a profound impact on her life. For Laura, it was a bit different. Her life had a different benchmark of trauma, hazing in college's wild, right? Hazing culture is incredibly dangerous. It just creates this environment where anything goes, the school board will just turn the other cheek anyway. And you would be surprised at how much hazing there really is. For example,

Matt Baker was in the athletic training program. And even for new freshman students, there was hazing to join the freaking athletic training program. It's not even a fraternity. It's not a sorority. Are you kidding me? So in order to be initiated, the freshman had to clean the toilets of the stadium stalls. So gross. So nasty. They're just like caked in pee.

I mean, think about it. So Laura Wilson was a freshman, Matt Baker's an upperclassman. And for some reason, he just had it out together. He forced her to clean the toilets bare-handed. She wasn't allowed to gloves, which meant she was not only touching all the nasty, disgusting urinals which is just a breeding ground of God knows what, but she was also suffering bleach burns on her hands. And Laura's getting mad. Halfway through she's thinking to herself, you know what? Fuck this.

Like, why am I sitting here on my knees, cleaning a urinal with my bare hands, getting chemical burns? I'm done. She gets up, looks mad in the eye, and says, clearly urinal yourself. And she walks out. This pissed off all the senior members.

They got together and started talking about what am I going to do to her. We can't let the freshmen know that we're just going to let them walk out on us. So they threatened to kick her out of the athletic group. But Laura was a really good athlete so they couldn't. And nothing happened. Now fast forward to during finals week, Laura is told again that she needs to clean the

urinals. Now this time Laura was fine with it. You know, Laura is the type of girl where she didn't really care about the hazing and the initiations. She just wanted to be treated like the other freshmen, so why the hell was she forced to clean bare-handed? That was the part that she didn't understand. But this time, just cleaning the urinals with gloves on, she doesn't mind.

She's not asking for special treatment. So she starts making her way over to the stadium locker rooms. Now, this was outside of normal practice hours. It's locked. Laura's alone. She's trying to get into the other rooms. They're all locked. And she hears a voice behind her.

Matt Baker. Hey, you're cleaning again. I can help you out this time. Laura thought it was a bit strange. You know, it is unusual for an upperclassman to help the freshman, but maybe he felt bad for her bleach burns. Because, you know, it's pretty bad.

So she accepted his help and they start walking. She said she was kind of getting annoyed because as they're walking through this desolate, empty stadium, not a peep, not a whisper anywhere, that keeps freaking poking her in the back with his broom. Like, play, play poking. She said, can you please stop, like you're kind of annoying. But he didn't, he kept jabbing at her thinking the whole thing is so he-he-ha funny. They get to the bathrooms and thank God no more broom-stabbing, and Laura said, hey, since the bathrooms are like my duty and they're really gross,

I'll do the bathrooms if you want to help, maybe you can do like part of the locker room, so the locker room's attached. And as she bent down, started cleaning a stall, she felt something. Or rather she like felt someone behind her, you know, watching her. Obviously she's trying to get up and turn around, but before she could, Matt was pinning her against the bathroom stall, kissing her. She starts squirming and moving her face away and screaming, trying to break free, and Matt asks, and like, listen, this is such an unsettling question. I would have literally peed myself. He asks her, what if I was Brian? Brian was Laura's boyfriend. I mean, it's so terrifying and so depraved.

I don't even know how to describe the feeling. And she's screaming, but you're not. And she tries to push him away. He lunges back at her trying to kiss her. And Laura had just walked through this empty stadium with him. She knew, even if she screams, even if she's like, screaming at the top of her lungs, who's gonna come get her? So she tries to find him off,

but he picks her up in a bear hug, puts her down on the sink, forces her legs open and stands between her legs, and he's just forcibly kissing her and groping her. Laura's trying to bite his shoulder, it worked. She was able to bite it really hard. She wiggled out of his grasp, ran out of the bathroom. She got it into the locker rooms before he caught up and tackled her onto the ground. And he started pushing her thighs apart.

He was holding her down with one arm and using the other arm to just fondle her. And she was screaming, it felt like forever, time was passing so freaking slow. And she felt like it's gonna happen at any moment, you know? But then suddenly out of nowhere, he just let go. And he calmly said, I'm done and walked out. Laura was traumatized, you know, she's disgusted. She had no idea what just happened. She had no idea why he even let her go. Later in hindsight, it's pretty clear that Matt was trying to rip her, but he reached his orgasm while fondling her. What? So he didn't need to go further. Laura ran out of the stadium in case she was gonna come back. I mean, she didn't know what was going on. She told her parents everything,

and immediately they informed the school officials they did everything by the books, literally what you're supposed to do. And it was evident, clear as day, that something had happened in the stadium. And whatever it was, it wasn't consensual. Matt still had the nastiest bite mark on his shoulder, like this was not consensual. The school officials even saw his nasty bite mark. They turned to Matt and said, Matt, you understand that you have to be disciplined for this, right? Yes, I understand. So what do they do?

Do they expel him or rest him? I would go with both, but that's just me. No, they banned Matt from being in extracurricular activities. I'm sorry, what? Meanwhile, Laura suffered actual psychological consequences. She developed severe anxiety, her school performance dropped. She had a dropout before that semester even ended for years She had nightmares. She would wake up in a sweat because she felt Matt was pinning her down and she was unable to move and nobody was coming to save her

To make things worse Laura's own friends turned on her because they thought well if the school doesn't believe you then Maybe you're being dramatic. There's no reason for the school to protect a rapist, right? So maybe you're just looking for attention. Like maybe you peaked in high school and now in college you feel like you need some attention and you don't know how to get it. Or maybe you wanted to hook up with Matt, but then you had a boyfriend so you made up this wild lie. Matt told everybody that he didn't hurt Laura, but he took the punishment to be a bigger

person. So what? Yeah. It was weird. He literally said, you know, what really happened was, we were cleaning the bathroom together. And the lights flickered and went off for a second. And I kind of approached her because I was like, hey, are you okay?

Don't hurt yourself. The lights are off. It was pitch black. And it's like something snapped in her. She just lost it. She came at me, bit my shoulder, and just became absolutely hysterical. And now she's like making up these lies that I try to do something with her.

I was freaking unbelievable, guys. Yeah, that just because of life flickered. Yeah, that makes so much sense. I totally believe that. That sounds like a one in a million story, and assault is not a one in a million story. And Laura dropped out. And the school officials told Matt, don't worry too much about the situation. And you know what, since Laura's gone, you can join extra curriculars again. What?

I mean, why would we as a school ruin a young man's life over one celly allegation? Who cares about the ruined life of a young woman who has to drop out of college and undergo psychiatric care? Who cares about that as long as you and your ding-dong are happy? We bow down to the patriarchy once more. Besides, the school board trusted Maddenism. Barbara was very involved in her son's life. She said, no, no, no, no. There is no way that Laura was telling the truth.

He's my golden boy. He's never had issues. Sure, maybe he can sometimes get a little bit aggressive, but what teenage boy isn't. She really just said what teenage boy doesn't want to assault girls. Like that's crazy to me. And the school board agreed and they were like, yeah, we want to rape girls too.

I mean, just mind boggling. I don't even understand because Laura's parents came to the school officials with her. So it, it's definitely calm down, beats me. So they just let it go. And Matt's life moves on. And Laura, I mean, she struggles. And it's interesting because everyone just

lives such vastly different lives. And there are these events that change people and that stay with them forever, right? So we had Carrie's moment in the hospital. And that was Matt's moment in the empty stadium. Carrie was out here trying to learn how to be a good person like any love-filled person her age. She wanted to make people happy. She wanted to be happy. Meanwhile, Matt the golden boy could do no wrong. He didn't need to make people happy. He was told over and

over again by his mother that his presence alone was more than enough, that he didn't have any flaws and if he did, the other party is just jealous because why would they go through all that trouble to point it out? For real? Yeah. Was he teachers? Pretty much. So when these two lives, these two vastly different personalities with different life perspectives and morals collide, it ends with death. So much death. I mean even the two families were so different.

The Bakers, Matt Bakers' parents were super religious. I'm talking going to church three times a week. They were involved in all the church activities. Barbara, Matt's mom seemed to be the head of the house. She's a very interesting woman. She said that she loved kids because she grew up in a house where her mom didn't want her. She said her mom tried to abort her but it didn't work. So she just hated her mom for being so mean and she thought, you know what, when I grow up, I'm going to be the nicest person to my kids. Barbara felt so alone during her childhood. She turned to religion for comfort. And when she started her own family, she would raise them in a super religious house. So then she runs into this little ice cream

shop owner Oscar, right? He was like the strawberry sorbet to her waffle clone. It's actually a really bad combo, but it's my favorite combo. So the two get married and they have kids. So they have Stacey June and then Matthew D Baker. But it just, it wasn't enough. I know it sounds bad, but Barbara said she couldn't stop thinking about all those other kids that probably had moms like Barbara's mom. The moms that didn't want their kids and the moms that let their kids know they didn't want them. Barbara knew that she couldn't help all of them, but what if she could help even some of them? Make a difference in their lives.

So she and Oscar talk about it and they decide that they're going to be foster parents. They move into this huge two story house that was provided by the government and they start fostering kids. At any given time for about 10 years, the baker's oversaw the care of up to 10 foster kids at a time plus their two biological kids. That mean it was their full time job. So Barbara would explain, you know, I was just a mom and 10 was the perfect number for me. You know, the house was wild, it was kids of all ages, co-ed, some kids lived with us for 10 years

until we stopped fostering, others were adopted into different families or sent back home or left for another reason. The bakers said that they took care of all kinds of kids. Every skin color, different temperaments, different backgrounds, some with physical disabilities, some who were traumatized and some who just didn't have parents. So the upstairs was reserved for the foster boys, and Matt, they were given

all the rooms. Downstairs was reserved for all the girls, including their biological daughter Stacy, and the Baker parents. Now Barbara gives very mixed accounts of her fostering experience. At first she said, it was amazing. It was a great learning experience for my own kids to live with children of different races and backgrounds. And Matt, my boy, had a god-given talent with children. Matt was more than a friend to these kids. He was like a mentor.

Even then, as a kid, Mad had just amazing leadership qualities. Which like, she's talking about a five-year-old. It's very much giving my son, my son vibes, like chill out, leadership qualities. I don't know, maybe he's just a control freak, maybe he's a little bossy. I don't know about leadership qualities. He's five Barbara. I don't even think he'll wipe his butt that well yet. It's just not that deep. And Barbara said, I can honestly say I can't ever remember punishing Matt, which Red Flagler, basically she's saying Matt could literally do no wrong.

I mean, what kind of kid doesn't ever get punished? So this is where things get a little bit shady. When Matt is 10 years old, the bakers suddenly stop fostering. When Barbara is asked about it, she said, because we owed our natural born kids some sort of normal life. You know, with the foster kids, we had runaways, attempted suicides, sometimes the police were knocking on the door all the time, which, you know, I just, it wasn't there.

That feels like a huge contrast to the idealic description that she just gave us of fostering. And I say that because later I was exposed that some very, very dark things took place in the baker foster home. Matt told say that because later I was exposed that some very very dark things took place in the Baker Foster home. Matt told his friends that the saddest day of his life was when he found out that he wasn't a foster kid. He said the day that he found out that the Bakers were his biological parents, his real parents was the saddest day of his life. Oh my gosh. Which is interesting because the Bakers spoil the shit out of mats, so why would he feel

that way? Yeah. Maybe it had something to do with what he saw growing up. Four separate women would come out to say that they were abused under Matt's father's care, Oscar. They said Oscar would touch them inappropriately, forcibly kiss them, and even encourage the foster sons to assault the foster girls. Sometimes, Oscar would even force brothers to sexually

grope their own sisters in front of him. Another victim had a very compelling story. Her name was Millie and she had lived with the bakers when she was seven, seven years old. She said Oscar would give her a nightly bath, and during it he would force her to touch him sexually. And eventually that turned into him forcing her into performing the layshoe. She's seven. And then there it only got worse. She said that she was roared by Oscar and at first it happened once a week, but later it graduated to multiple times a week. She couldn't even say anything at school because it just, it wasn't just sexual abuse going on at the bakers. There was all sorts of abuse.

She remembered that for days the foster kids would be starved for some ridiculous reason of like, you didn't close the pantry door, or for no reason at all. They would literally have to be forced to sit at the dinner table and watch the Bakers eat. And that ate? It seems like it yes. Another victim said that Oscar abused her and even brought her to a pastor's house, and pastor forced her to perform Felatio on him. So maybe the baker stopped fostering because someone was going to find out what they were doing, or maybe somebody threatened to talk. Either way, the bakers of course they will forever deny all the abuse allegations, but I'm just saying, the foster life wasn't as idyllic, selfless, and wholesome as Barbara made it

seem. Side note, I'm not sure if there was any abuse between the Baker and their biological kids, but even if there wasn't, I imagine that just seeing this type of abuse with the foster children, surely, I mean, it must have left some sort of impact on you, right? So now that they're no longer fostering, they're not allowed to live in this big, you know, government provided house anymore, and they start moving into the trailer, which just... I don't know, the bigger it's just let it go to shit. The neighbors said it was tilting to the side slowly.

They just didn't care. All they cared about was their golden boy Matt. So he got good grades in school. He participated in sports. I mean, if I'm being honest, Matt really wasn't a bad kid on paper, but there was just unsettling things about him. For one, his classmate pointed out, I don't know how to describe it, but when you look at Matt, you kind of see his mom and him.

And the two of them, they have no emotion. Or at least they don't show it. They're completely expressionless all the time. It's a little bit weird, a little unsettling event. That's what his friend said. But that expressionless face wanted to grow up and be a minister. Listen, I'm just saying you don't have to be an expressional person to be a minister, but like, if you have a way of connecting with people, if you have the faith, if you really want to make a difference in people's lives fine, nobody would be judging him. But the guy is just

weird. Like he definitely wasn't someone that you would meet at church and feel super comfortable with. And around the same time, his mom is getting weird. Barbara was arrested for stealing $20 from a local store, and she said that it was because her golden boy had left the house to go to college. That's why. I don't know. Maybe she's like a little klepto girl. Then it happened again, and she was arrested for another theft charge. So all I'm saying is this whole family and Barbara

were not the composed church-going family members that she so desperately wanted everyone to believe. Something is going on. Something a little sinister. Because let's be real, Matt was not the golden boy, right? She's trying to sell us on this. Oh, we're all God-fearing people and he is amazing. In fact, Matt was the type of boy that you wouldn't even want to leave your drink alone with. Not only did he try to rape Laura Wilson in the empty stadium, but Matt faced other allegations in college. Another incident wasn't as quite as aggressive, but it was ushocking. An old high school friend of Matt said that they reconnected at a party, went back to his mom's house where Barbara is,

and he's like aggressively trying to take off her clothes and paper. The only reason that he didn't was because Barbara was moving around in the hallway too much. So, Dina Freak's out, runs out of the room, Barbara finds out, and her response is pretty much, well boys will be boys. Why'd you come over anyway then? So in college, Mack gets good grades, he gets... He tries to rape someone, but he also is participating in sports. He also tries to rape another person. His mom literally didn't even care, but he didn't even get repercussions from any of his peers.

Matt was given the highly coveted position as an intern at the Department of the First Baptist Church of Waco, Texas. He would work in the Recreation Center at Church and even at the Summer Youth Camp, which yes, was often filled with young vulnerable women and I guess nobody thought about that or they just like flat out didn't care, I don't know. So during the internship, another slew of allegations come out, a young girl accused Matt of cornering her and grabbing her crotch and asking her to have sex with him. She ran to the church officials and told them what happened.

And you know, they're standing there listening to this girl's story. It's aggressive, it's predatory, it's very much giving f***** best. I mean, we have a predator in our church. She's traumatized. And these so-called church leaders call Matt in and they say, hey, Matt, you've got to be more careful about being alone with the teenage girls at summer camp. That is so bizarre to me. Would you tell a pedophile?

Do they believe that they think Matt was innocent or they think it's like, you know, a messy situation where it's kind of like he said she said, wow. So, I mean, that's like telling a pedophile, just be careful to not be alone with kids. Meanwhile, I want you to work with kids, but just don't be alone with them. Because you work here. Okay, good luck. I'm sorry, what? So unsurprisingly, there was another incident at camp, but this time, instead of a teenage

girl, Matt went after a middle-aged woman. He straight up went after the camp custodian, so she's like in her 40s and 50s at this point, and she's cleaning up in this freaking college student comes up turn goes and I quote, I know what it's like to be with a young woman. I'd like to know what it's like to be with a mature woman. So she tells the church and again, there's no consequences because all women lie. It doesn't matter if you're 12, 19 or 50, you know, oh, we do it live. And they were unproven allegations. So why ruin a man's life over the word of multiple different women? So this is what's going on with Matt Baker.

But first, let's talk about Carrie Lynn, the other half of this story. Now, Carrie Lynn was born to two young college student parents and for a very short period of time, they were a family. But then tragedy struck. Carrie was a little baby when Linda received the call and her husband, the father of her child, was killed in a motorcycle accident. Just like that, in the blink of an eye, their lives changed forever. Linda was alone. A young

single mom and Carrie would never truly meet her father. So Linda relocated to Waco, Texas to be closer to her family. Thankfully, they all rallied around her. So Linda has a lot of sisters and they come from this religious tight knit family. So they're all trying to support. They're like, you gotta go to work, you gotta go to school. Okay, we're gonna take the five to eight shift and then Nancy's gonna come and she's gonna watch your kid over and they were a village. They made it happen.

They stepped up to the plate. Linda focused on graduating college, and all of them loved their baby little niece, Carrie. All the onset that Carrie was like this spitball of fire. You know, those kids that are just go, go, go, talk, talk, talk. She's so bubbly, so adorable, but oh my goodness, so exhausting. Like, we'll wipe you out in an hour. Just a huge personality.

So Linda said it was the most tiring, but rewarding process of her entire life. For example, when Carrie was just two years old, she ran into her mom's room and probably put her hands on her hips and said, I hate your ton tacks. My what? The things you put in your eye, your ton tacks, I ate them.

And she's like, oh my god. And she's running through all the possible hazards like a mom, you know, and she's like, okay, maybe Carrie's not in danger, she's gonna be okay. But Linda couldn't help a laugh. I mean, what kind of two-year-old is this? Just crazy. She's so proud. She's like, it's pretty good.

I'll eat another one. Give me one. It's like, what? She's talking about contacts? Yes, she calls it Tontax. She says, you're Tontax. Ha-ha. Then their tool will provide options from other companies so you can compare. All you need to do is choose the rate and coverage you like. Quote today at Progressive.com to join the over 29 million drivers who trust progressive.

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or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a big guy man, but I love being that 30 mother f***er. So just when things were starting to feel normal, they were struck with pain again. You know, life is funny, okay? The human experience can be so cruel at times. A fire broke out in Lyndon K. Her sister's apartment, and they lost nearly everything.

Luckily a friend of one of the neighbors, Jim Doolin offered his help to transport the rest of the sister stuff, the few things that survived the fire. Well, it wasn't long before Jim and Linda started dating. Yeah, Jim was a member of the National Guard. He worked for the Department of Defense, but more importantly, he was so sweet in loving with little Carrie. That just won Linda over. And the rest is history.

The two got married. He formally adopted Carrie, and before long, they moved in together, you know, it was very cute. Linda starts teaching high school journalism. She's a teacher. They start expecting another kid. It's just a very cute little family. Carrie grew up and they raised her really well. She was just so much fun to be around. She was so sweet, she loved volunteering. She was very creative in ways to help people. That was her thing. She's the type where if you were getting bullied, she would stand up for you. And if someone dared bully Carrie, instead of being mean-backed, Carrie would be very open and honest. She would just tell them, hey, you're being a really

bad person right now, and I don't know if you mean to, but what you're saying is hurting me. Which is so admirable when you're in high school, because it's almost do we need to be so transparent. But this is the adult mature thing to do, and typically the bullying would stop. So it worked. So fast forward to college, and maybe it was the miscarriage that she suffered during senior year, but Carrie hated it. She was far away from her family. She didn't like the party atmosphere.

She just wanted to settle down. It was too much. So she moved back with her parents, went to a local college nearby, and she said, she just wanted to settle down. It was too much. So she moved back with her parents, went to a local college nearby, and she said, I just want to grow up and be a teacher, like that's what I'm studying for, and maybe I can find a nice Christian guy and make a husband out of him. So where do you go when you're trying to meet a nice Christian guy? Probably to church. So Carrie starts working at Wago's first Baptist Church. And while working there, she ran straight into the lifeguard of the church youth group camp, Matt Baker. And that is how their worlds collide.

And it would end with two people gone and one behind bars for life. Carrie was immediately attracted to Matt Baker. And we can't really blame her because when she saw him, she saw the good sides of him. She saw this nice God-fearing guy who was 23 with a cute little baby face in these round cheeks and blue eyes and he just looked so sweet, so approachable, but still very attractive. He seemed like he would make the perfect husband.

And he was religious. I mean, on paper, he was perfect. Friends say that Carrie was the one that pursued Matt, but it's not like he wasn't interested. He instantly really liked Carrie. There was just something about her upbeat, happy energy that was just so contagious. Like she was a woman that valued family and morals. Nobody warned her.

No. So they go on their first date to the movies and it went well. After that, they're like racing to meet all the checkmarks. They start moving really fast. They run straight into meeting each other's families and you know, it's really scary bringing someone to meet all the checkmarks. They start moving really fast. They run straight into meeting each other's families and you know it's really scary bringing someone to meet your parents. But I wonder if your parents are too biased. Do you know what I mean? I feel like sometimes extended family members will usually have a pretty unbiased view as long as you know they have your best interest at heart. And Carrie's aunts had her best interest at heart. So Linda meets Matt

and she likes Matt. She's heard all these amazing things from Carrie, you know, what's there not to love? But Carrie's aunts, ever since the first meeting, I mean, it's not like they were, they didn't wanna see Carrie happy. They're not like those aunts, they genuinely love her. They want the best for her, but Matt was weird.

Okay, so they would talk about it when he was gone, and they would say things like, I just can't put my finger on it. Something about him just rubs me the wrong way. Did you see him hovering over her when she was talking to us? It was weird. It's like he didn't want her to have a single second talking to somebody else unless he was a part of the conversation.

And that hug, did you see that hug? Listen, I don't know if I'm too conservative and maybe I'm getting old, but that hug, did you see that hug? Listen, I don't know if I'm too conservative and maybe I'm getting old, but that hug was weird. He hugged her for too tightly and too intimately in front of her own family. It was like he was trying to show us like this one is mine now. It's just weird. I thought he was gonna grow per right then and there.

It was just too much. Yeah, but maybe we're overreacting. We've always been protective, haven. We're right, right. You know, Kays and Love, she's happy. It's all that matters. We probably are just looking too much into it. So the aunts try to get on board. That is till later that summer,

Carrie announces she wants to marry Matt Baker. They're like, I'm sorry, what? You guys have known each other for a while, like a few months now? Linda, Carrie's mom was like, okay, I gotta say something. Like I really like Matt, but I gotta say something. She brought up her valid concerns. Carrie was dead such said mom.

So like some random guy. This guy is a really good Christian and we don't wanna wait. Matt and I wanna get married right away. But honey, why not wait just another year and get married next summer? Mom, I get it, you're worried, but there's no reason to wait. I know he's the one.

And before I long, Carrie's left hand was a little bit heavier. She was wearing a diamond ring, and the two were engaged. You know, what can Linda do? She's got to get on board now, because she doesn't want to push her daughter away. So the next step before the wedding was that she was going to meet Matt Baker's parents. So Carrie had met the parents, they've all met each other, but the two sides haven't met, right?

The in-laws haven't met. So they go to the local chiles and they sit down. And you would assume that they would maybe talk about family history, about their kids, about maybe embarrassing little tidbits about the kids growing up, about personal interest even, but Barbara decided to talk about her son's virginity.

Barbara literally bragged, you know, that's a virgin and shot a knowing look at Linda and Carrie. Carrie had told Matt about her miscarriage senior year of high school and now Barbara was using it against Carrie almost to be like, my son's a virgin, but he's willing to be with you even though we could do better. It was- Yeah, it was so shocking to Linda. She later asked her daughter,

like, did you tell him about the miscarriage? Why would he tell his mom that? And Carrey just said, mom, he's such a good guy. He has led such a clean life. I wouldn't want to keep anything from him before we get married. I feel like it's not fair and that's not how I want to start a marriage.

Which I get her point. Kind of not really because virginity literally doesn't matter, but like fine, whatever, I get it. But if he really was such a good guy, would he have told his mom that type of information? Yeah. If that were me, let's say him and his mom are so close, right? And he tells her everything. If it were me and my mom are so close right and he tells her everything if it were me and

My mom she would never but let's say she tried to use that information against my significant other I'd freak out. Yeah, like that's a huge ref like you was bringing it up You would talk about it like what was that about you know? Yeah, I'd be like mom You need a chill like you need a leave then I would be so upset. I mean, it's so gross But despite this really weird first meeting, the couple decide to go through with the marriage. They got married at just 23 and 20 years old. And that was another red flag for Carrie's family. And I don't really have much to say about this one. But they said, how come his best man is a friend of the family? Does he not have a best

friend? Carrie responded, oh, he doesn't really have any friends. I don't really have any friends, so like I can't really say anything about that, but Carrier has a lot of friends and Carrier's family has a lot of friends, so they thought it was a red flag. But Carrier is not listening to anyone. She was just so ecstatic to start her life with this wonderful husband. I mean, she's so infatuated with him. Or rather, maybe infatuated with the idea of him. It felt like Carrie didn't really know him. She knew a little bit about the allegations. Not because Matt told her himself, of course not, but someone in Matt's family took it upon themselves

to let Carrie know before the wedding, which like, yes, good move. But Carrie took Matt's side. She said, mom, it's nothing. Think about it. If he really did do those things, he certainly would have been fired. Obviously, I believe him. Which, you know, at this point, I can't even be mad at Carrie because yes, he should have been fired. And it only makes me more angry with the handling of the allegations like why on earth was he not

fired? So other than that awkward conversation, Carrie seemed to be thriving. She's in this honeymoon period. She's all googly-eyed when she to be thriving. She's in this honeymoon period. She's all googly-eyed when she talks about Matt. She talks about how proud of him she is. She kept encouraging him to follow his dream to get a master's degree in divinity. And with Carrie's support, Matt Baker, of all fucking people, decided to become a minister. Barbara, his mom said, I wasn't surprised. I always knew that Matt was destined to do God's work. That was the way he has been raised.

Which is interesting, considering Barbara knew of the sexual assault allegations from his college days, the very first ones, not even just one lone incident. So I don't know if she thinks that's God's work, because it's not. But to Barbara, her son was the perfect divine being.

Listen, I can't help but feel like Matt is used to being worshiped by woman. Purely just for existing. Matt wasn't overly dominant in his relationship with Carey though, which is interesting. He let Carey make the day-to-day decisions. Not because he didn't like to make decisions. He just didn't care about day-to-day decisions. But when he did care, O is game over. He would voice his opinion and in his eyes, that was that he had the final say because he's

the man of the house. There's a place called Family Why in Texas. It's a huge facility not far off the freeway of West Waco. Matt Baker got a job there at the Children's After School program and he got straight to work, looking for the next victim. First it was a young teenager named Jackie, and Matt was always creepy with her constantly suggesting that they go to the workroom to work out the accounting, and Jackie knew what she was doing with the receipts, but he's like, no, you don't know, I need to help you in the office. Well, one of those times, they're alone in the office.

Matt comes up behind her and starts groaning her. He forcibly pushes her up against the wall and tries to shove his tongue down her throat while telling her, I want to fuck you right here, right now. Thankfully, he didn't go further because the phone rang and Matt was so startled, Jackie took this chance to slip away and ran out of the room. Jackie was so scared, she didn't even report the incident, because this is a man of God after all. You know, she was trying to tell herself maybe he didn't mean it like that. Maybe I was misunderstanding the situation.

Besides, even if I said anything, nobody would believe me. But there were still rumors. Other teenage girls experienced similar things and they were reporting Matt. All the allegations were similar. That Matt was pressuring them to have sex with him while he forcibly grubbed and kissed them. He would say disgusting, bile things like, I want your cherry. One girl said that he even approached her and started asking her questions about her

sex life. And when she brushed him off, he said, so would you ever have sex with a married man? Il, no. And he told her, well, that's not even why I was asking. I'm happily married and I plan on spending the rest of my life with my wife. And I wouldn't do anything like that either. OK.

Sounds like a five-year-old. Yeah, exactly. Literally, I mean, it's just so weird. And she said it was so awkward after that. Like, who talks like that? And then afterwards, he just kept going at it. He was like, are you sure? Like, what's your sex life like?

And this is all happening as Madden Carey are welcoming their first baby Kenzie into the world. I mean, it's wild how you can live such double lives. I mean, it's wild. Eventually, it does catch up with him because Matt gets fired. Finally, honestly, it took too long in my opinion, but Carrie must know now, right? Well, Matt told her that he was fired for trying to counsel these young teenage girls about

the dangers of becoming sexually active. But then being damn and young, they misinterpreted that as him trying to have sex with them. Yeah, because that makes sense, you know, when I was 17 and you were telling me about safe sex, I totally thought you wanted to fuck me. Like, because that makes sense. When I was 17 and you were telling me about safe sex, I totally thought you wanted to fuck me. What are you saying, Matt? That makes no sense. What kind of comprehension levels do you think girls have?

But Carrie stood by her husband and she said she had never seen an inkling of anything alarming in Matt. She told her whole family because they found out people will attack your husband. That's just the way it is. People will say false things and they have their own agendas and sometimes women and girls tell lies because they see a good man and they want them for themselves. So at first it's infuriating, right? But that last sentence right there, that has me believing that this is not carries

independent thinking, that this is not Carrie's independent thinking. That this is Matt manipulating her and behind the scenes I'm sure there was a buttload of abuse, gaslighting, manipulation, narcissism amongst other things. I'm sure he tried to guilt trip her with her own religion as well because women tell lies because they'll see a good man and want him for themselves. That doesn't really sound like a thing that women say. That sounds like a cheating guy, we'll say, no babe, like she's just really jealous of our relationships, so she's trying to break us up. I just don't see a woman

coming to that conclusion by herself. So Carrie believes that women were falling over themselves for Matt Baker. I also think it was part of Carrie's just willingness to believe all of this was because Matt was really good at home. He was very attentive to her. They had all these inside jokes. They were like best friends. He was such a good father to their child. I mean, just didn't make sense to her. She later even said, you have to love your husband and believe in him. Even when no one else does, the ministry life is hard and you have to back up your husband and be there for him so that he can do God's work. Speaking of God's work, Matt starts bouncing from church to church trying to get whatever job he can get, but he probably jumps ship or gets fired every six months to a year because of his sexual allegations.

A lot of the times the churches were very hush hush on why he was like, go so Matt wasn't voluntarily giving up information. I mean, I would bet a lot of money that he's getting fired because he's sexually harassing woman. Even Carrie's family were starting to notice odd behaviors at family gatherings. Matt would go around asking super invasive questions like, hey nice girl, Dan, how much money do we make? What?

Like how much too much do we make this month? What's your income this month? I just met you. You're like, Carrie's husband, right? I'm her cousin. We just met. What's going on? Okay, fine. Maybe he's just a bit transparent about finances and thinks that's normal.

But the more alarming thing was that Matt would go around asking everyone like these private questions about their finances. And then he would turn to Carrie's niece who was 14, who had on a skirt, and met a full-on adult, a minister in training, came up behind her and asked her, do you have panties on under that dress? Haley was so shocked, she paused, and then walked away. But he followed her, and he repeated himself, Haley, did you hear me? Do you have panties under that dress?

And I guess Matt was so obsessed and needed to know if she was wearing panties that he didn't care that other relatives had witnessed the whole interaction. Now this is the very telling part. Linda was informed on what happened, and she had very much danced around the subject with Carrie. Instead of confronting her head on with this information, Linda simply asked Carrie. Hey, has Matt ever acted a little off sometimes? I'm not criticizing anyone, Carrie. I just... I think it's strange that you don't even go get a haircut with that, Matt.

And he's always with you. Side note, this is not the information I thought she was going to bring up to Carrie, but... I guess it's valid. Matt literally followed Carrie around everywhere. He didn't want her to have friends. He didn't want her to have relationships. even with family members unless he was there. So Carrie just says, what? Mom, no. Matt just, he loves me and he doesn't want to be without me. Honestly, I feel sorry for him. He doesn't have a lot of real friends.

And listen, this part is so sad. And I feel like we all do this. But I think that Carrie really wanted Matt to be the ideal husband I don't think that she realized that she was making excuses for him and his behavior I think that she genuinely wanted to trust him and she genuinely wanted him to be a good God-fearing man that she thought that he was So Linda just dropped the topic Besides Matt was officially a minister now. How could a minister be doing stuff like that? Carrie's aunt Nancy gets a call. It's one of her close friends.

Hello? And the friend is hysterical. Whoa, what's going on? Tell me, what's wrong? Why are you, hello? Listen, I don't know. OK, I just might be freaking out. I've got like a adrenaline going through my body,

but remember my daughter? You met her recently? She's a teenager? Yeah. Sometimes she exaggerates and I'm not sure what to think. OK, well, what's the problem? You know how we live behind your niece, Kerry, and her husband, Matt? Well my daughter said that Matt came up behind her and asked her if she's ever been kissed

by a boy and then he grabbed her and kissed her on the lips. But I don't know. You know, she lies a lot. She's a little kid. She lies a lot. Which side now and I think it's wild that her mom didn't believe her. I don't know what my reaction would be as a parent,

but you better believe I would trust my child. So you're saying that Matt is truly the un luckiest man alive, right? Dozens of young women have no connections with each other are lining up to tell very similar lies about Matt to everyone. Yeah, that makes sense. As much sense as a bunch of 12-year-old middle school students

lying about their teacher assaulting them. Yeah, that makes sense. As much sense as a bunch of 12-year-old middle school students lying about their teacher assaulting them. Yeah, for sure. So it never really crossed anybody's mind that Matt was actually a creep. How did nobody even start to consider that? So Nancy gets this phone call and she hangs up. And she reaches out to the rest of the aunts. And Nancy's like, I believe this wholeheartedly.

Even if her own mother doesn't believe the teenage girl, I believe it because even my own daughters don't want to be left alone with Matt. They think he's creepy. But I don't want a confront. Carrie, I don't know what to do. Carrie just gets so defensive when it comes to her husband. And it just might push her even closer to Matt, which is the opposite of what we want. So Nancy tells Linda, who says she's going to talk to Carrie about it, and Carrie immediately gets defensive. She said, Mom, Matt didn't do that. He wouldn't do anything like that.

The girl is clearly lying. And as soon as Carrie hung up the phone, she stormed over to the teenage girl's house and started knocking on the door. Matt is behind her standing like a kid in trouble. He never said a word. He just let his wife defend him. And Carrie's a wreck. At one point, she started sobbing and asking the mother of the teenage girl, like, how can

your daughter say something like that? How can she say something like that? Oh my gosh. So once again, Carrie blindly took her husband's side, which side note, I totally understand if Carrie had known Matt for a long time, this was a one-off incident, a lone incident, where someone accused Matt of doing something out of line and it felt completely out of character. I still think even in that situation you should consider the evidence and the situation, but I understand if you're skeptical, not defensive, skeptical. But when so many girls are alleging Matt of doing inappropriate things and you've only known him for three years, I'm just saying I would question everything

So this incident like every other incident just blew over Matt had no consequences And the couple welcomed another child A baby daughter named Cassidy into the world And for a year everything was well Ignorance is bliss everything was somewhat blissful Carey was having a blast with her two daughters. Her husband was so attentive to her and her children

until the youngest daughter Cassidy turned one and she was hospitalized. She had a tumor at the base of her brain and it was growing. If left unchecked, it would be life-thurning. So just one year old Cassidy was going to be operated on. And this is like a huge thing. You know, she has to undergo general anesthesia, which could have such dangerous, possibly deadly consequences for children. It was just a lot. And while everyone is peacefully enjoying things, giving with their families,

little Cassidy was on a cold operating table, and her entire family was pacing the hospital floors praying. The doctors fully expected Cassidy to die in surgery. At one point, her lungs filled with fluid, but somehow she survived. She was a Thanksgiving miracle. But of course, she was going to be in this fragile state. She would have to stay in the hospital for a while. But that wouldn't matter to her loving family members who would stand sleepless nights, eating a hospital-vending machine food for weeks on end, as long as it meant that Cassidy was still with them.

And then one day, Carrie's cousin Haley came to visit. She decided to bring a friend named Erin, who was just 20 years old. Matt is 29, by the way. So remember how Erin was warned about Matt being creepy? Yes. Well, she experienced it firsthand. Erin was in the waiting room playing Mario Cart with a little boy that had been diagnosed with cancer. And Matt came up behind her and sat.

And she said, Oh, hi, you're Matt, right? Sorry about your daughter being so ill. Oh, no, I'm a friend of Carrie's cousin. I hope your daughter gets better though. Matt looks her up and down and said, you know, you're a beautiful girl. Thanks. He leaned in closer and put his hand on her leg. You know they gave us a room to stay in. What castes he's here? Do you want to see it? No.

And Aaron grabbed his hand and moved it off. Of course I wouldn't. He said, Lindsay and Carrie are going to be gone for at least 15 minutes. The room's just right down the hall. And he placed his hand back on her upper thigh. This time, Erin freaked out, pushed his hand off more forcibly and got up. She thought that he would stop there, but he got up behind her and started rubbing on her shoulders. So she literally enraged,

she ran out of there. She was literally walking out of that hospital, telling her friend everything that happened, and this friend is relaying the incident to Nancy, Carrie's aunt, and the aunt had a few meetings about the whole situation, and they all thought, what's done is done. Right now, Carrie needs to focus on Cassidy, and even if we told her, she wouldn't even believe us. And right now, she needs her aunt to support her.

And I mean, this is really telling, it's telling that one of the first things that Lindsay warned Erin about was Matt, but's telling that one of the first things that Lindsay warned Erin about was Matt But also telling that none of the family members wanted to tell Carrie because they thought that she wouldn't believe them Another bizarre thing since around the topic of the hospital Carrie was right there with her child non-stop all day every day But Matt would just sit in the live like the waiting room waiting for people to show up and shower him with sympathy and attention And then this is where things get shady.

Cassidy gets discharged to go home. She wasn't magically better, she was going to have to be fed through a gastric tube. Her trache tube was still going to be in, I mean there was a lot. The parents would have to manage her feeding tube, clean her trache tube, hook her up to monitors. There was one that she had to literally be connected to non-stop so that if she ever stopped breathing, the parents would get in alarm. So life is not going back to normal, but Carrie is super mom.

She took notes, listened to every single word, asked questions, she was ready. Cassidy was cancer-free and that's all that mattered. The doctors told Carrie they're very optimistic. She's going to make a full recovery. Is it going to be a long road? Yes. Is it going to be a hard road? Yes, but she's going to make it.

So fast forward to Sunday night. Cassidy's been home a couple days. Things are going great. Madden Carrey are finishing up for the night. They tell Cassidy into bed. Check her, like stats and everything. Now Cassidy was supposed to wear her monitor to sleep. So the parents could be alerted. She stopped breathing in their sleep, right? Well that night she wasn't wearing it. Why? Matt said they often left it off at night. Carrie said, oh, Matt said the alarm was unnecessary. We never used it. He said we didn't need it because Cassidy didn't need it.

So they tuck her in and all as well. Around midnight, Matt decides to go check up on her again. And again, they're both doing fine, the kids. Then nine minutes later, Matt goes to check up on Cassidy for a third time. I mean, that's weird. He doesn't check up on her that often. Usually, he just like tucks them in, and that's it. But this time, he went to check up on her three times.

Matt would later say, oh, I don't know. Something just wouldn't let me sleep. I just knew I needed to check up on her. Okay, interesting. And since the monitor wasn't attached, no alarm sounded, but Cassidy wasn't breathing. So Matt yells for Carrie to call 911 and he starts performing CPR. Now the weird part is, Matt is inside a Cassidy's room with the door closed, performing CPR, and he wouldn't let Carrie in. No way.

Now if you ask Matt in his mommy Barbara, they'll say it's because Carrie felt like if she went in and she saw Cassidy like that, she would have been haunted forever. So they're saying Carrie didn't want to go in. But Carrie said, but like, okay, just knowing the moms in my vicinity and no way in hell, they're not going in. They're not thinking about that. They're thinking about their kid. No one thought he was saying, hey, don't come in because it's going to be traumatizing for you. Yeah, no. He was just like, I don't want you in here. He told herizing for you. Yeah, no, he was just like, I don't want you in here. He told her verbatim. According to Carrie, he said,

in the quote, I don't want you in here. So after CPR, Matt brings Cassidy out. They rushed to the ER and it's too late. Cassidy was dead. Just like that. I mean, days ago, her prognosis was good. And now she was dead. Carrie called the main doctor that was working with Cassidy.

And she said, Dr. Smith, Cassidy died. She passed in her sleep last night. And Dr. Smith had a very unsettling reaction. She screamed. She wasn't supposed to die. How could she be dead? And then she ended the phone call with, no, something's not right.

Something I'm calling CPS, something's not right. And she hung up. No way. So the doctor is saying like, there's no freaking way. This is like she was not in that we knew she was gonna survive. Listen, if a doctor said that to me, I'd be so alarmed, it's very freaky.

It makes you think. And CPS came to interview the parents and Matt lied to the CPS worker and said that they had a nurse and at home nurse after they left the ER, which was not the truth. He also mentioned that he was a minister, and the CPS worker didn't even care to check any of this. She just trusted the sinister minister

and was like, oh, you had an ER nurse. This is probably like extra traumatizing. You're right, you're right, you're a minister. You would never hurt your kid. So after Cassidy passes, I mean, you would imagine that both the parents, their lives are uprooted, ripped apart. Matt is fine, he's ready to go back to work.

Carrie was so confused, she told her friends, I don't know how he's not hurting. Why am I hurting so much? Why is it tearing me apart, but he's fine? Friends also noticed Carrie started questioning the night that Cassidy died. She would talk herself out of her suspicion, so. So for example, she would wonder out loud why Matt didn't want her in the room. But then she would say, no, that's so silly. I'm sure he has a good reason.

Why am I even thinking about this? So eventually it was so bad. The grief got so bad. Carrie reached out to a therapist and the therapist said that. Carrie talked a lot about how Matt was not sad and Matt all he cared about was sex. And she just couldn't do it, she was so depressed, she was in pain, like how was she supposed to have sex right now? For a while, nothing seemed to help Carrie. So she got pregnant again.

And this time she was super vigilant on making sure that her baby was fine. And little Grace was born healthy. Meanwhile, Matt was focused on his career. He had just preached at a new church and interesting side note, the church had a literal banner that said, a woman who fears the Lord deserves to be praised. I don't know, sounds like you're trying

to breed some submissive woman, weird, like why specifically women? Why can't you just say people who fear the Lord deserve to be praised? That wasn't the only weird thing. Carrie was also bothered by the porn. Okay, it wasn't the first incident. A few years back, Carrie found porn on her computer,

and this is why I think that Matt constantly was gaslighting her. She freaked out and asked Matt about the porn, who convinced her, it's because her computer was old, and it was probably a virus. Carrie didn't think anything of it. She wiped her computer and then started fresh, and then a couple years later,

her little baby brother needed a computer. So she gave him her old computer. And her brother said the computer was filled to the brim with the wildest, nastiest hardcore porn that he had ever seen, like downloaded, onto the hard drive. And he brought it to his parents, because he's like, whoa, I don't know what's going on.

This is Carrie's old computer, like, what is this stuff? Matt tried to play it off his. Well, Carrie, your brother is in high school. He probably was in barricading our card. I mean, it's clearly his stuff. You know, boys that age watch stuff like that. It's, why would it be mine? Carrie believed Matt.

But then there was another incident. Carrie saw in her debit card that someone had charged phone sex operators and porn on the internet. Matt convinced her that his debit card would stolen and Carrie was so mad she stormed to the bank with her minister husband and told the bank that they need to get rid of the fraudulent charges ASAP because this guy's a minister and she's a churchgoing woman why would they be being for porn?

And Carrie was doing a lot of fighting, you know, it's Carrie's always fighting Matt's battles for him while he sits on the side. And she was fighting really hard with her own grief. It had been five years since Cassidy passed and she just, I don't know if you can ever move on from that. She tried to focus on keeping up with her two daughters and taking a second job here and there, really pulling the financial weight, Carrie was spread thin, and Matt just did not seem that interested in helping out financially.

He was critiquing Kerry for gaining weight, he spent more time at work, which you're like, wait, isn't that what we want for him to work? Well, no, not like this. The whole reason he was obsessed with work recently was because 23-year-old Vanessa Boles. Vanessa was soon to be a single mom.

She was married, but she was in the process of a messy divorce. They were getting divorced because Vanessa cheated on her husband and got pregnant. So it was really messy. And one day... No, somebody else. And one day, Matt approached his Vanessa while his wife is literally at the church, and he pulls her aside and said, would you ever date your pastor? She's silent. So I guess to really seal the deal home, Matt added, I had a vexsectomy and I'm STD free. I love it. Your selling point is I'm not gonna get you pregnant

and I won't give you an infectious disease. This is so odd. Every time he approached anyone, he go in with this very unsettling, the breath forward, really freaking creepy opening. Do you think it's because his mom convinced him, and I'm not saying it's her fault, it's his fault now, he's an adult,

but do you think it's just him literally thinking that he's God's gift to earth to women? So maybe he thinks this straight forwardness is like, oh, all I need to do is let that person know I'm down. Imagine someone come up to you and say that, like. I would die. Exactly. You're like, this is a serial killer.

Yeah, I would. Because normal people don't do this. No. And imagine it's your pastor. Oh, man. So I am judging Vanessa, though, because she knew that Matt was married. If I were Vanessa, I would have had a hell of a reaction to this. I'm not sure exactly what, but it would have been a hell of a reaction.

She just said, have you cheated on your wife before? And Matt responded with an enthusiastic hell yeah. And he added for good measure that Carrie was clueless. And I guess that's all it took. The two started in a fair and they just really did not care who found out about it. Matt was not sneaky at all. He started pulling away from Carrie instantly. You know, their marriage is strange. So Matt did treat her like a best friend. They had their inside jokes, they, I feel like they genuinely liked spending time together. But now, Matt didn't even crack a smile around Carrie.

They never had sex anywhere out of the blue. Remember, she was always complaining about his high sex drive, now suddenly he's over it. Things were tense between Matt and Carrie, and yeah, Carrie's suspicious. She's stressed out, Her husband is slipping away. She's working two jobs. She's raising two girls.

The seventh anniversary of Cassidy's death is coming up. And now, income the emails. So Madden Carrie communicated heavily through emails during this time. And at first glance, it seems like Madden is being a caring husband. Just being like, how can I help you during this time? I know it's rough for you. And Carrie is like, no, I got it. I just need to figure it out on my own.

But then Carrie responds with, you know, I just, I think that something in you has changed. And I can't figure out what it is, but I wish that you could open up and tell me. Never in our marriage have you ever told me no to sex. And I guess I feel like this is just one of the many ways that you're pulling away from me. I know that you think that I'm seeing things but what I feel is real

I just want to spend time with you and make things better Matt this morning I thought you would have liked what I did but I felt like you seem to pull away And I'm kind of tired of giving and giving and you're not giving back Please just know that I'm not saying anything like I don't love you or I don't want to be with you But I'm just saying the way that I feel is a lot, and it's got to stop, and that means you've got to tell me what's going on in your mind. I just love you so very much,

and I'm sorry that if I've made you mad with this, but you're kind of breaking my heart, franny face. I just don't want to second guess your feelings for me, you know? It has to go both ways. I love you. So prior to this, they were having a very productive healthy conversation where it seems like both sides were engaging in productive ways. Now, this is where Matt is a little manipulator. So he is exactly the type where you say, I love you, right? And then you guys

have the little chitchat, but then immediately when you try to approach him with any sort of criticism or any sort of like, Hey, maybe this is an area we could work on, he will just snap. And I think he does that so that the responding party would go, oh, wait, wait, I'm sorry, that was my fault. Like, okay, can we like, we were just fine a second ago. It's like whiplash because he said, you know what, I'm sick of this. I'm done. I'm finished.

I know you told me that a number of times that you prayed the night that Cassidy died. You prayed that she would be paying free. And I've never told you before what I did in her room that night when I was checking in on her. But I went to her bed and I placed my hand on our back. And I prayed. I prayed that she would be cancer-free. And I prayed for her to start in finish school. Graduate college, get married and bring her family home for the holidays I remember praying those exact words Please God make her well so we can have her here with us. Please. I need her and I don't know why I never told you this before Maybe I didn't want to make you mad

But you and I have discussed that that night your prayer was the one that was answered and not mine and Yeah, I know deep down. I hold a grudge against God and you because your prayer was answered and not mine. And yeah, I know deep down I hold a graduate against God and you, because your prayer was answered in not mine. What was her prayer? I pray that Cassidy be pain free. So like he's literally being like the genie in the bottle, you forgot to add your terms and conditions, you forgot to add the disclaimers, what are you talking about? A mother is praying for her child to be pain free, and you prayed, I hope

she graduates high school then goes to college, then drives a car, and then does it doesn't matter. Like what you're so disgusting. Like I was shaking and anger reading this because it's disgusting. You know for a fact that's not even how Matt feels. He's literally trying to grasp at anything, to find a reason, to make care he feel like shit, to make it feel like it's her fault. And then Matt basically goes on to say, it is what it is, I love my kids too much and I'll do anything for them. Basically insinuating that he's staying in this marriage for them.

And Carey's response is just as heartbreaking as you would imagine. She said, wow, you finally said it. You blame me for Cassidy's death. I had to read it a few times to make sure I understood what you said. I feel like you just took a knife and put it through my heart. I carry the guilt of my prayer, but I know in my heart that God knew what he was doing before I even prayed. You have truly painted an ugly picture of me. At least now I know how you feel about us and me.

And I'm not sure what we can do from here. I have some things that I need to work out because you said some things that really hurt, but I'm not mad at you. I'm just hurt. I'm in disbelief of what you said. But thank you for being honest with me finally. I understand it's because it must have been very hard. I'm just not sure what to do.

You know what? This is actually better than I thought because sometimes when you get manipulated so much, she will probably apologize and sob and beg him and please, but this one, at least she's saying, okay, I see that. You see what I mean? She's not like falling over him and saying, hey, please take me back. I'm sorry.

Yeah. So this might be good. Yeah. She did talk about divorcing Matt after this with her mom, right? Good, yeah, she did talk about divorcing Matt after this with her mom, right? But slowly over the next couple of months, he pulled her back in. And that's not even the worst part. He had given her these like this chocolate milkshake and she tried to sit, and he's like, oh, I made it for you, which like he never makes her chocolate milkshake

weird. It is really bitter. She refused to drink it. A couple days later she comes across a brief case and inside is this tiny little container with crushed up pills. Listen, I don't want to jump to conclusions, but the pills maybe they're making your chocolate shake better. And Carrie thought so because she was so alarm, she even told her therapist that she was anxious that her husband was going to kill her. But as soon as those words came out of her mouth, she backtracked and she said, wait, that's such a stupid thing to say. Matt loves me. He would never, I think I'm just really stressed. And then meanwhile, the next day, it would get better and better because Matt would send her more emails like, the reasons I love you, that's his subject. I love the time we spend

together. I love that you make me laugh. I enjoy the family we created, how beautiful they are. I love you for loving me, I love that you're my best friend. So tell me why he was on the phone with 911 a few days later. Nonchalant. This is 911, do you have an emergency? Yes, I think my wife just committed suicide. Okay, you're at 803 redacted. Stay on the line with me, I'm gonna connect you with an ambulance, okay?

Okay, thank you. Do you know what happened? Well, she's on the bed, her lips are blue, her hands are cold. And there's a note that says, I'm sorry basically, she's not breathing at all, there's no pulse or anything. Did you see what happened to her? Uh, no, I tried to push down on her chest and stuff came out of her nose. I don't know, she...

Listen carefully, I need you to get her on her back, flat on the ground, okay? Remove any pillows, do that and tell me when you're done. Um, okay? Remove any pillows, do that and tell me when you're done. Um, okay. It's, Matt sounds so casual, like during all of this, he sounds like he's ordering a pizza. I know how to DCPR, you do? Yes, I'm certified to do it. Just make sure to check inside her mouth to make sure that her throat isn't obstructed. There's fluid in her mouth and her nose, it just poured out of her onto the floor.

Okay, Matt, that's okay. Put one hand on the floor and one under her neck and tilt her head up. There's nothing, there's nothing. I think she urinated on herself too. It smells like it. There's water everywhere. Which I don't know.

I imagine if my partner or loved one just committed suicide, I don't know if I would be talking about the urine. Like he's not saying it in this panicked voice of like, oh my god, it smells like pee and I read online that people pee when they're passing, like is it, is she passing now? Did she pass like, what does this mean, right? He's just like, it smells like pee and I read online that people pee when they're passing like, is it, is she passing now? Did she pass like, what does this mean, right?

He's just like, it smells like pee. Just so weird. And he's like, should I go away by the door or unlock it for the paramedics? Again, I get it. You want the paramedics to come in, but that's, that's for thought you probably wouldn't have in this situation. I mean, I wouldn't even want to leave my partner's side for a millisecond. I would be too panicked.

So the dispatches like, we'll let you know when the paramedics are close. So just stay by Carrie and do more CPR. He's like, shishir. But later, the EMTs did not have their sirens on. And they said that they saw Matt on the phone standing at his open front door. It was weird. The paramedics did their job. They found Carrie. She was on the floor dressed and

Which is weird because Matt claimed on 911 that she was nude. So did he dress her while he was on the phone with 911 because That would have taken a lot of strength. There was no groaning. There was no like oh, I'm putting clothes on her And the worst part is levity had said in to Carrie's body Which it just didn't work with Matt's timelines. The suicide note was typed, even the signature at the end was typed, and it said, I'm so sorry Matt, I'm so tired, I just want to sleep for a while, please forgive me. Tell the kids I love them, and I love you. I just want to give Cassidy a hug. Continue to be a great dad. I love you, Carrie. And next trip was a bottle of pills. It was unissom. So it's used for weight loss and insomnia, which if the

police had consulted someone, they could have been easily told that it would have been very difficult to overdose on, especially at the dosage that Carrie had been prescribed. Even if she had taken the whole bottle, it would have been very difficult for her to overdose. It's not like Ambien, it's not like a Xanax. But the police were like, well we saw a bottle of pills in a suicide note, so it must be suicide. They announced that they weren't even going to autopsy Carey's body. They spread upset, well, there's no stab wounds

and no gunshots. So how can it be a homicide? That makes sense. These are like, I don't know why these police aren't working for the CIA with that IQ. So after the police take Carey's body, the family gathers to talk about what to do next and to grieve and right there in Linda's living room, that is peacefully snoring. Just

fucking fell asleep. He goes back to church and everyone's like, hey, I'm so sorry about your wife. Oh, it's fine. It wasn't even a real marriage anyway. She was really depressed, so we were just co-existing at this point. Where people were like, what the heck is that? I mean, there's a lot of married couples with one or two parties with depression and that's weird. And normally people would stop there, but maybe you would say, oh, well still, I'm sure it was hard for you to lose the mother for your children, so sorry. He would just start talking Carrie. No, she just, listen, Carrie was never satisfied. She always wanted more, and honestly, she was a pretty bad mom and a pretty bad wife.

She just had this dark cloud that hung over her everywhere she went. Honestly, I think the kids are better off without her. Wow, what a minister. Wow. It's weird, but some might think not as weird as Matt's hair. Overnight, after Carrie died, Matt transformed his style completely to look younger and more fashionable.

He started spiking his hair up. And he started seeing Vanessa more regularly. Within two weeks of Carrie's passing, Vanessa was there to pick up his kids from school with him. So Carrie's mom and the aunts, they formed their Charlie's group angel. They feel like things are weird. They even get the therapist involved. The therapist says, oh yeah, she was worried that Matt was trying to kill her. That was a bomb shell. They took this to the police and the police did not care

If it weren't for the Linda and her sisters coming up with a plan to hunt down Matt find evidence go on social media like just go crazy The police wouldn't have done anything With enough pressure they finally approved an Examation for Carrie's body and, they found a whole cocktail of drugs in Carrie's system, ambien being one of them. But Carrie didn't die of an overdose, so it killed her. There was bruising around her nose and mouth, indicating that she had been smothered,

likely after she had been fed ambien in an overdose attempt. So now the police are intrigued. And the first person they reach out to, Vanessa. So this is years of the Charlie's Angels trying to get justice. Vanessa and Matt weren't dating anymore. And first of all, this is wild. Vanessa showed no remorse. She agreed to testify, and she laughed, and she said, I didn't think he was actually going to kill Carrie. He did talk about dragging her milkshake, but I thought he was lying. Vanessa said without remorse that Vanessa and Matt started having sex

in Carrie and Matt's marital bed. And Matt would constantly tell her that Carrie was hideous. And he loved Vanessa so much that he wanted to find a way out of his marriage. Vanessa said that after the murder, Matt sat there telling her all the grisly details. He said that he took apart some sexual stimulating pills, emptied it out, put an ambient, gave it to Carrie, and told her it was for them rekindling their love. Matt took one. His was an ambient, it was the actual sexual stimulant, and he took Carrie to the bedroom, handcuffed her to the bed. She started getting drowsy and fell asleep. Matt proudly told Vanessa that he kissed her forehead, and said,

give Cassidy a hug for me, and then smothered her. When she was dead, he typed up the suicide note, empty the pill bottle. And for years, Vanessa never came to the police herself. Honestly, she's a horrible person. I don't know what to say about this woman. So finally, they had what they needed and Matt's murder trial began January of 2010. Fun fact, Matt's attorney was appointed to him and he hated Matt. He tried to get off the case and the judge would not let him. The judge refused.

He was like, if you drop the case, it's going to delay the trial too much. Matt's attorney only wanted to represent people he genuinely thought were innocent. Vanessa did help in putting Matt away since the police had no evidence because they really sucked on this case and they gathered no evidence. So Matt Irvinesis' testimony was really what secured the deal. The jury found Matt Baker guilty and he was sentenced to 65 years in prison. And I don't even know what to say. Other than this guy is an absolute asshole.

I don't even know what kind of personality this is. Clearly he's a narcissist. I imagine the whole story of the allegations of what happened in the foster home of Oscar, his dad, forcibly kissing these young girls. I wonder if that was just placed on him, and I'm not giving him excuses. Oh God, no. I'm just saying, maybe that's where, because he's weird. That's right. Like, what's mom's name, Barbara? Yeah. That means Barbara was there, witnessing while it's two. Yeah, and like like totally fine with it. Yeah, exactly. To so messed up. Whole family. Well, that's it for this week's mini-sode.

Stay safe out there, and I will see you guys on Wednesday. Bye.