Rotten Mango - #209: Indonesia’s “Jeffrey Dahmer” - Serial Killer Very Idham Henyansyah

Episode Date: October 26, 2022

In the summer of 2009, there were whispers around South Korea. A Korean blogger had gone out to the woods and came back traumatized. They had seen something in the woods they shouldn’t have.  They called it “The Mimic” and it is NOT human. It has no human emotions, no human empathy, but it sounds just like a human. It can mimic anyone’s voice to lure you into their web of death.  It sounds like an urban legend, right? But there are people amongst us that do the same thing. They do not feel love, empathy, and have no care for others but they are so convincing in their acting you would never know. They feel nothing yet you feel like you can trust them. That is the story of the Indonesian Jeffrey Dahmer.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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in all states or situations, prices vary based on how you buy. Better being better boo. Welcome to this week's main episode of Rotten Mingo. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. It all starts the summer of 2009. There were rumors you see a Korean blogger had been traumatized. They refused to talk about it until they finally felt ready. They had gone into this mountain in a city in Busan, which is like the southern tip of South

Korea. So at first, people thought that they were lying for views. Oh yeah, you saw a monster. Why didn't you record it or God forbid, why didn't you blog it? But soon after, rapidly, more and more reported sightings were coming out. And by March 2013, there had been 14 reported sightings. They said that the creature was nothing like what they had seen in life ever. It had this sloth-like shape and long white hair,

and the creature was not very nice. It was the talk of the town, Or really the whole country for a while. A conspiracy, if you will. A conversation that was being held in the corners of the internet. Four of them were people would go and ask about, do you guys believe in the monster? They call it the tiger, do you think it's real? One person fell so deep into the rabbit hole. And he was no ordinary person.

He was a South Korean movie director. And with that, he decided to make the movie called The Mimic. The Mimic is about a family who moved to the mountainside town near Pusan. And they hoped that living in the countryside away from the pollution of the city, the hustle and bustle is gonna bring them some sort of happiness, some sort of spiritual fulfillment. The elderly grandma is sick, the mom of the family lost her son who went missing five years ago. And of course there's this creepy little girl that's found wandering around in the woods.

And the mom is like, oh my gosh, she reminds me so much of my missing son for some reason. Instead of calling the police, she takes this little girl into their home, which results in the mimic being allowed into their house. The mimic is never seen through the whole movie because it's taken host inside this little girl. Horror movies with little children being evil are terrifying to begin with, but this movie is a whole nother level. And it's really great because the mimic is great

at stealing people's voices, at mimicking humans, any sound with any emotional undertone, they can mimic it, to perfection. It mimics any voice, and it convinces people to lose their minds or do things that they know that they shouldn't do. It's a really dark film, and it's terrifying to think that there are actually people out here like this.

Wait, so you're saying this director was inspired by the tiger? Yeah, by all these urban legends of this Korean blogger who had seen a monster in the woods that sounded like lost friends and distant relatives. Where's the monster? Inside the little girl. Oh, no, no, I'm saying in the... Oh, in the mountainside woods of Busan.

It's a urban legend? Yeah, and a lot of people have claimed to hear and see the monster. What does it look like? It's just white hair? Yeah, white long hair and it kind of has like a sloth like shape. So it's much larger than a human. Hmm. Like very long arms, very long limbs that just drag behind as it chases after you're sounding like your mother.

You know that one ever legend? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, when you hear your mom calling from downstairs, you're running down. And right when you pass your mom's door, she says, stop. Don't go. I heard it too. Well, there are people that are like this out there,

not in the horror movie sense. They don't sound exactly like your ex-boyfriend, but it's almost creepier. We live around mimics all the time, and essentially, we technically are mimics to a degree. Humans have of all to learn to mimic people's emotions. Even their body language, we call it mirroring. It's a way for humans to build that social connection

that our biological brains are wired to crave. Because connection means safety. It means community a sense of belonging. Psychologically, by mirroring someone's words or the phrases that they use, or even their body language, they're cadence. It's a way of showing that other person, see, I'm similar to you, and you can trust me.

It is so ingrained in human evolution that we don't even know that we're doing it. Have you ever had a long date with someone and suddenly you've developed a bit of their accent by the end of the night and you didn't even notice? Do you keep saying a phrase that your best friend says all the time and you're like, why do I keep saying this? I've been recently, I noticed I've been talking like Dendet.

No, I know, yes. You know, maybe your partner likes to scratch their chin while they're thinking. And now maybe you find yourself pondering about the meaning of life and you're like, wait a minute, why am I scratching my chin right now? Which is all fine and normal. But that's not what's creepy.

What's creepy is that there's a small percentage of people that engage in this completely normal human behavior, but they feel none of it. In fact, they might make a conscious effort to mimic your behavior, to mirror people. Why? They wanna seem more human. So they learn to smile a big, happy smile,

or maybe they learn how to shed tears in a convincingly sad way. They know what a sympathetic face looks like a patient face, yet they feel none of those things. They feel no sympathy or patience or understanding. They have never felt it before. They've just learned which faces and voices to make when you act a certain way so that they can get the best outcome for themselves. They learn to mimic human emotions and body language so that they can manipulate you.

Now, here's the thing, humans are pretty smart. We're pretty good at finding these people after a while. Sure, it might take some time, maybe you have to date them for a year or two, or maybe they're a part of your friend group for a while before you start noticing. Huh, their smile doesn't quite reach their eyes, but sometimes in the crowd,

there is a mimic who is so good that you would never know that they feel no emotions, no remorse, no fear, no sadness, they feel nothing. And you almost start feeling for them. That is the story of the Indonesian Jeffrey Dahmer, the mimic who used his ability to mirror people's emotions so well to get his victims to trust him and to even get the public confused after his arrest.

As always, Full Show Notes are available at routonminglepodcast.com and as with all foreign cases, please let me know if there's anything left out, lost in translation. I tried my best with this one, but some of the information was just all over the place, but this has been highly requested. So with that being said, Rihanna was described as cute. Like a little teddy bear. A lot of people said watching videos or even talking to Rihanna himself was a strange experience because you almost find yourself smiling at him when he's not talking about his murders.

It's almost like a facial reflex. You start smiling because he's smiling so convincingly and he almost looks like a soft little puppy and then you're like, wait, what are you saying? What do you mean, right? Everybody that has met Rian or has seen his interviews say that that's what's scary. He's so good at mimicking emotions. It is disarming. It's a head trip. If you just watch one interview with this guy and you come out afterwards, your head is going to be spinning. Now, before someone tries to come for me, let me just say we are not calling beyond cute in the complimentary sense.

We are arguing about the anatomical structure of somebody's face, not their personality and even less than morality. That's not what we're talking about. This is strictly just about their facial features. And there is no better word to describe Rian's face than he looks kind of like a cute puppy in a weird way. I think it's his incredibly high cheekbones. He's got these big doe eyes and these powdery lips. And I'm not saying that to compliment him whatsoever. But I am saying it's just a facial analysis of what I think makes him so trustable looking.

It makes him so disarming. When he smiles, the smile reaches his eyes. You see the little cringles around the corner of his eyes. And the features on his face or the features that society would objectively consider, quote, cute. And as a man, Rian almost has this gentle mannerisms. He has these very calm, serene way of talking and smiling. He seems almost non-threatening. I think that's the terrifying part. I mean, I would not be scared to be alone with him if I had no idea what he had done, or what he would do if we were

alone. And I don't think it's a revolutionary concept that some killers are charming. Many of the serial killers that we've talked about have been described as charismatic. But there's kind of a difference between, let's say, Rian and Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy was described as conventionally physically attractive. Again, we are not saying that as a compliment, but I do think it's important to note when killers or criminals use their looks in order to lure their victims into their webs of death. I think it would be dumb for us to completely ignore that, right? So Ted Bundy has this more traditionally masculine features, whereas Rian has these soft features, and I think his physical appearance does so much for this guy.

But more than that, a psychologist that analyzed him said, Rian was so remarkably good at mimicking emotions. He could see an emotion in someone for a second, a flash of emotion, and he could almost instantaneously embody that emotion with such passion, with such belief, with such skill that you would without a shadow of doubt in your mind, believe that he felt that emotion with every bone in his body. This guy was a world-class actor, or a mimic, I guess you could say. There were times where it said experts started to believe he was remorseful for his martyrs,

and then they would leave the room and realize that they had been played, and they had to constantly remind themselves, no, Rian is not remorseful because he does not have the capabilities to feel that emotion. He is manipulating you. And to stay safe, you have to be careful around him, because there's a reason they call him the Indonesian Jeffrey Dahmer, which I think is a terrifying nickname to have.

You'll see why he gets the name. But one of Rian's most distinct memories growing up was the sick and twisted relationship that his mom had with his brother-in-law. That's what he said, okay? When Rian was just five years old, he claimed that he came home from school. He's excited to be reunited with his family, you know, the kid is five.

He's still at the age where family is more important than his friends, right? So he runs all the way home and he hears this strange noise coming from the family bathroom. It almost sounds like someone's in pain. It almost sounds like this animalistic noise. He's scared that someone's broken into the home. Or worse, maybe one of his family members is hurt, or in trouble. So quietly, just in case someone dangerous

is hiding behind the bathroom door, you know, the bathroom boogie man is very real. If you're five, he very quietly peeps his eye in through the door. It's open a tiny little crack. And he claims he saw his mom having sex with someone that was not his father. In fact, that someone was Rian's older sister's future husband.

So just imagine, a mom having sex with her future son-in-law. But like when you're five, do you know these kind of things? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know it's, I think you can pick up the context. I don't know if you know that it's sex, but it's just, oh that's weird, this feels really off. I mean, it was shocking. He nearly dropped his backpack through up in his mouth and he ran off. He said that he would remember this day for the rest of his life, he felt betrayed. His mom and this disgusting man had ruined his family, his entire family, because what?

Because they wanted to do some nasty stuff in the family bathroom? Because she loved this man more than she loved her own children. I mean, it was traumatic. It was disgusting, it was despicable, right? Only none of it was true. Rian was, um, he was one for lies. He lived in Burieda's lies, and they all had a bit of a dramatic flare to them,

like he would get creative with his lies, and soon all of those lies would catch up to him. When he was exposed as being one of the most prolific serial killers in all of Indonesia. So let's unpack his lies. Here's what wasn't a lie. Rihanna was born February 1, 1978 in Jambang, Indonesia. Now Jambang is a relatively popular tourist spot now. They have these intricate religious architecture, these beautiful mosques, these temples,

fresh, lush, greenery, stretching for what feels like, forever, I imagine on a foggy, misty morning, it would look like a whole other planet, like a magical paradise. That's now. Back then, it was just an agricultural town that wasn't doing well. Majority of the residents, they were barely making ends meet.

I mean, ever since he was born, Rian felt like he did not belong here. I mean, sure, it was born here like everybody else. Sure, he had everything in common with everyone else, but the town was too small for him. He felt like he was a city boy. He wanted to live in Fricking Jakarta, the capital city, which by the way, Jakarta is a behemoth of a city.

It is more densely populated than New York City. And with any big city, which by the way, Jakarta is a behemoth of a city. It is more densely populated than New York City. And with any big city, it's incredibly hard to make it. It's not going to be giggles and sunshine and hopping off the plane at LAX with a dream in a cardigan, you're going to need a lot more than that. But Rihanna didn't care, that's what he wanted, because he hated everything about his child, but he hated his hometown, hated being from a small town, he hated his parents, he hated every single person and soul in this little area.

Rianne from a young age did not talk to any of his family members unless it was absolutely necessary. Is that not weird? Like just... Hmm. Seriously, if anybody saw their interactions from afar, you would think that his parents kidnapped this boy from his real biological parents, moved him to this tiny little town and now we're holding him hostage.

That this boy was a jacarta boy that was missing his parents and their love. I mean, it was just a bizarre family dynamic. It's almost like he resented them for being born into a family like this. And I mean, the whole thing is unusual, especially when you consider the fact that, um, drumbang the area where he grew up, it was a, it was a tight knit community, religious community that put a high value on family. So that's the norm. And he's going against the norm to be an asshole to his family. So if you saw a little ryan sitting on the side, kicking his feet, you might be inclined to ask a little boy, wait, what's wrong?

And he would start talking about his childhood, how he was abused his whole life, like severely abused, how he lived in deplorable conditions with evil parents, and he would say things like, as a child, I felt disappointed in my family and relatives. You know, over a period of time, all the hurt that I felt, it just kept adding up and adding up and in a way it shaped my entire personality. Physically, I might seem gentle and kind, if not quote cute, but inside of me, I'm tough.

No one really got to see that side of me. Okay, cryptic, weird, but it's not the weirdest thing to say, or it's not the worst thing to say, right? But then he would go on. During my childhood, I was unhappy. I was disappointed in my parents and angry about what they did. So as a child, I was rarely happy. I would just keep quiet and I like to be alone in my room.

So it sounds like the kid went through some shit, right? Why is he never happy? I don't get it. Yeah, apparently not. Everyone who knew the family and other relatives said, Rian's parents loved the guy. None of his siblings were especially mean to him. I mean, yeah, there's like the normal sibling bickering and rivalry,

but nothing to call home about, nothing to call CPS about. In fact, everyone said that Rian was the abusive one in the family. He emotionally terrorized the crap out of everybody. He would fly off the handle in these violent rages. He would just get moody out of nowhere. He would try to annihilate his entire family. His dad said, his emotions were out of control. We could have managed it. If he was in a good mood, he'd be super kind. But if he was touched even so slightly by some words we said, and he didn't like it, he would be extremely angry. He could not control himself. He can't control between being patient and being cruel. He just

can't control himself. Though it's fascinating, is that like other killers, even similar to Ted Bundy, if you met Rihanna in school, you would have no idea that this kid was so violent at home. He was friendly, academically gifted, never got in trouble, consistently top of the class, never had problems with other kids. His former principal even said, every single person was shocked to hear that he was a rusted remurder. He just seemed so cute. He was so happy, and he never skipped class, he always did his homework. He was a so cute. He was so happy and he never skipped class he always did

his homework. He was a humble boy with good manners. And when he was arrested, like I said, we were all in so much shock. It's interesting that he never caused problems at school. Maybe he was exhausted from all the harm that he did at home, or maybe. School was the only thing that was important in his life. Because he needed to get out of his small town and make it to Jakarta. And like I said, Jakarta like other big cities, you can't just make it with a dream. So Rian knew he needed an education to get somewhere to get out of what he believed with his hometown hellhole, which by the way his hometown is beautiful. It's just he just has a problem with it. I don't know what his deal is.

Rian was convinced that he hated his childhood and that he hated his family because they were all disgusting, filthy little cheaters. Remember Rian's most prominent memory of his mom cheating in the bathroom having sex with her lover, cheating on their father, cheating on their whole family? Rian's mom would later say that none of it was true. Literally none of it.

There were these rumors going around that Rian's mom was sleeping with her son in law. But that was all. Board neighborhood gossipers looking for someone else's life to ruin. I mean, it was such a far-fetched piece of news that most of the community didn't even believe it. But Rian, he believed it. And whether as a kid, he developed a whole backstory behind something he was told, and I'm not saying kids do that.

I'm saying Rihanna does that because Rihanna is not a normal person. Or maybe he made up the story purposely to get back at his mom for whatever reason. It's unclear, but Rihanna's mom did notice a really weird shift in her own son's energy when he was young. Maybe he was annoyed that she was always at work. She worked in sales, so she's gone like all hours of the day and night. And she didn't really have set hours,

it was just, hey, I gotta meet my quota for this month because I got to put food on the table. Rihanna was getting fed up with this. He's getting fed up with being fed good food. So now, whenever his mom came home late, he would wait by the door. He would tap his foot on the ground, leaning back into his chair, like a little 7 year old dad.

He looked like he was the owner of the house. And then he would remark, Oh, you come home now? Always out, come home late, you must have been with another boyfriend, huh? Then he would storm off into his room and Rian's mom. I mean, she's so exhausted from work, she did not have it in her to get into a violent fight with her son, so she would just let it go. She'd never discipline him for saying stuff like that, she just said, I kept quiet, I let him be, I let him say whatever he wanted, otherwise he might have beat me.

But Rian's dramatic lies did not stop there, he claimed that he caught his dad cheating too, he was like this all knowing I in the house. Listen, if you're wondering why I'm interrogating a little boy's memories, it is because this guy is a master liar like just wait. His lies are out of this freaking world. Anyway, he claimed that he saw his dad cheating on his mom too. And Rian would go on to blame these two affairs for traumatizing him so much that he got violent with his family and later violent with other people. Rian said by the time that he was 10, all he wanted to do was break things. Oh, he was so therapeutic. He said, I started to like throwing things and destroying them.

It was a response to what I saw, but I couldn't tell anyone about the affairs. So I just broke everything in the house. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton app today.

Peloton app available through free tier or paid subscription starting at 12.99 per month. Why would you break into these apartments? For money, for drugs, whatever was in there? Why aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? No. Who's going to catch us? What a police. getting caught at doing this? No, who's gonna catch us? What a police.

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100% I saved my soul just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set, an Odyssey Originals documentary podcast series available now in the Odyssey app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your shoes. I'm not a big guy, man, but I love being a dirty mother f***er. Now some of that anger would go in high school when like all the other kids, Rihanna started discovering the art of making out. Yeah, like a little tongue-in-cheek action, okay? Now, side note, Rihanna's gay,

and he's very comfortable in his own skin. He knew even well before high school that he was gay, and he said it's because he liked the company of Girls More. Everyone described him as having girlish mannerisms. Whatever that means, feels a little bit, I'm gonna feel big in it. Like a microaggression, but you get it. Regardless, Rihanna's gay and he was confident. Now side note, Rihanna's go on to take a lot of lives, but being gay does not make you a killer. In fact, I would argue statistically, being straight makes you more of a serial killer,

but don't quote me on it. So the guy's in high school and he's not at home as much. He's out with his friends going on dates. He's studying. I mean, it's surprising that he had so much time in between being an absolute menace to his entire family. How does he even have time to go out on dates and to study? Beats me, but he did. He graduated high school top of his class, incredible grades, and he was even accepted into a very prestigious medical college.

And you're like, oh my god, this guy's going to go learn about human anatomy. Is that not going to pose more problems later on? Don't worry, he doesn't go to medical school. Actually, honestly, maybe it would have been better if he did. This was just another defining mark in his life. So Rihanna is the youngest of the family. His parents had already spent all of their savings on Rihanna's older siblings to either pursue their dreams or go to college. The family funds were effectively drained. So you're like, okay, well, why can't he just get

alone? From what I can tell via Google, Indonesia does not have student loans. It's actually not a common thing in the world. Tough student loans offered. Yeah, I love when you know little American me. I'm like, did you guys know that in a lot of countries, you either get a scholarship from the college, like you're a spectacular student, they would be lucky for you to choose them as your choice of university, or you pay the tuition out of pocket. There are no such thing as student loans. And this hurts the academically gifted, but not the exceptional students. So if you're at the top 1% of the entire country,

you're gonna get a scholarship. But if you're just academically gifted, maybe top 10%, and your family's not rich, you're not going to college. So Rian couldn't get a loan, and it was impossible for him to support himself through college. I mean, this is med school.

Imagine having a full-time job and studying full-time in Med School. That's impossible. So, the kid is out of options. He had to forfeit his spot in class. I mean, this was devastating. And it only heightened his burning hatred for his hellhole hometown, which by the way, again, I'm sure it's a beautiful place. It was just his hellhole for whatever reason. He probably would have hated any other hometown unless it was a booming major metropolitan area. So he takes a situation as another reason to be angry at his family about their positions in life and he was just upset. He was upset at the cards that he was dealt because they were shitty, which is understandable, but she said, is not your parents fault? Like, they're trying their best. So he goes back to trying to have a fulfilling life.

So he throws himself into his Karan teachings in this local religious group. He was the student, by the way, so not the teacher. And he freaking loved it. The whole experience gave him like a sense of community. And when he wasn't doing that, he was working out. The guy worked out non-stop, who's kind of a meathead. Oh, he also taught aerobics, played sports,

and dabbled in modeling. Skye had so much time on his hands. I don't even understand. He had a ton of friends. Like, this guy was so easy to be friend. Everybody said, you know, he just seemed so cute and kind. And of course, Rian dated quite a bit. Now, allegedly, allegedly, Rian said

that he was seeing his Karan teacher. His teacher would deny this. He said, no, I was only nice to the guy. He perceived my kindness as romance. I didn't even know he was gay. And on top of that, even if I were gay, I would never date a person like that. Rian is a bad, bad person, regardless of his sexuality. I have never, in my whole life met someone so freaking manipulative.

He lied about having brain cancer. He told me he was going to die soon. He said his doctor dramatically told him, you don't have much time. Which side note, why is brain cancer the go-to sympathy life or pathological liars? Like it's not even any other cancer. It's always cancer of the brain. He also claimed that he was adopted, which he expected his Koran teacher

to feel sympathy for him for being adopted. And yeah, basically the teacher was like, gay or not. I don't care, but I would never attachment to his caron teacher. He said, I was just so happy because he was somebody that I could lean on, someone that I could count on. You know, I couldn't count on my parents, so he was like a god sent to me. And in 2007, the teacher was like, hey, Rion, buddy, I would love to invite you to my wedding. And it's like, what? You're what? I'm invited as the groom or something?

Uh, no. What a weird joke. What? You know, my bride is gonna be the one that I'm marrying, you know? Like, cause, okay. And Rian just lost his shit. He went absolutely bonkers. The teacher said,

it was not the first time that I had seen him get angry, but it was the scariest time. I mean, he looked so intense. I mean, I won't describe it, that he had this murderous look, but he was, he was extremely angry. The teacher felt intimidated enough that he felt the need to enact violence. He hit Rihanna in order to throw him off his anger and then he ran off. The confrontation must have been so intense for him to feel like he needed to resort to violence. And for the next year, Rian harassed him, non-stop. He would text him, bombard him with hateful messages.

He would scream at him. I hate you, I hate you. I mean, the teacher was terrified. Rian justified it by saying, I was in school, you know I was crying. I mean, I was disappointed beyond relief. I was in emotional turmoil. I was in school, you know, I was crying. I mean, I was disappointed beyond relief. I was an emotional turmoil. I was devastated and mentally unstable. I think the first murder had something to do with our separation.

So he said that he was devastated and in turmoil, emotional turmoil after the breakup. So he went on to have a murder spree. Because of this. Yeah. And Rihanna even hinted that the first victim should have been his current teacher. The teacher and everybody else believed that had he not hit Rihanna first and found the chance to run, he would have been buried in Rihanna's backyard with others.

So that saved his life, but about a year later someone wasn't so lucky. Rihanna committed his first murder, and the way that he went about it is just so bizarre. He had this friend, 27-year-old Gunter Permano, and they had known each other for a while. And in 2007, Rihanna was like, hey buddy, Gunter, it's been so long. Why don't you come over to my house, where I live with my parents, but it's my house, and spend the night. We can party and have fun. So Gunter comes over at the beginning of the night and it was fun!

They were catching up, talking, goofing around just like old times. And Gunter is like, hey, I gotta use the restroom. I've been drinking too much beer. Oh yeah? So I'll show you. So from photos and videos that I've seen at the house, the bathroom was not connected to the house. You had to exit the house, walk through the yard, and the bathroom was a separate concrete construction in the back.

So it's kind of more like a shed, if you will. There's no giant big door to block you in the elements. You're not gonna get rained on, but it's not the most highly secure bathroom. There's no valuables in there. You're not protecting it from thieves and robbers. You just have a door, like a regular door. It's flimsy, it doesn't necessarily lock. You go inside, you do your business. So Rian shows him to the

bathroom. Let's gun Turin and escorts him. And he waits outside for his friend to finish. But Rian said that gun Tur was taking so long that he straight up fell asleep while waiting for him, just leaned up against the back of the bathroom and in his sleepy days. He said, you know, it's strange. I just had this sudden, evil intention. I just knew that I wanted to kill him out of nowhere. So that's what I did. In the bathroom of my house, nothing provoked me, nothing triggered me. I just knew that he had to be my first kill. Surian went, picked out a metal rod that he owned, went to the bathroom calm, found guntered defenseless on the toilet and he struck him in the head over and over until he was dead.

Then Rian said that the panic started to kick in. He said, oh my god, I panicked, I sat with blood on my hands and I cried. I mean, I was so confused. It was the first time so I didn't know what to do. Which side note, Rian would later talk about crying after every murder as if people should applaud him for being such an empath. He's like, yeah, I cry tears of sadness every time I took lives. Does anybody feel for me?

It's hard being an empath like me, it really is. Rian said once the shock wore off, he picked up Gunter's body, quietly dragged him in the garden patch in the yard, and buried him. Soon that backyard would be a minefield of dead bodies, it was his secret private cemetery. Later when asked, Rian claimed that he killed Gunter out of pure passion. You know, it wasn't premeditated. He did it as a crime of passion, you know? Like how? There was no fight, no argument, nothing to warrant such homicidal passion, where was the crime of fashion? Rian argued, there was a reason.

Well, remember how we were catching up in the house? He told me something that really pissed me off. Okay, what? He was having an affair with a man, and it was a secret affair. I mean, I mean, how dare he? How dare he not be out and open with his sexuality like I am? I feel like he was ashamed to be gay or bisexual and not to me is disgusting. I disagree with it. Completely.

So you waited for Gunter to be vulnerable and he murdered him in a rage of passion. I don't know how you can even try and justify that as a crime of passion. Imagine you visit an old friend, you catch up, you use the restroom and you get murdered for no reason other than a loosely strong together argument that made zero sense. That is not a crime of passion, I would call that premeditated rage. And to prove it, Rihon killed again the very next day. His next victim was Augustinus Satihawan. And Rihon said the reason he killed Augustinus was because he accused him of doing something that he didn't do So Rihanna was like how dare you accuse me of doing something bad and now I'm gonna do the worst thing I can do I'm gonna murder you for it

How does that even work? That's pretty much the response he gave and he said this with his whole chest like this is the truth And it should be said in stone and this is like the most normal reaction to have. Even if I had a dollar for every time somebody accused me of doing something that I didn't do, I would be Bill Gates. I don't know why everybody always assumes that I eat the leftovers. I do, all the time, but not this time, but it just didn't make sense. Like this whole argument to the public of he accused you of doing something bad

and you were upset that your morality and your ethics were being questioned so you felt the need to kill somebody? That is bizarre and he was very unspecific about what he was accused of doing. It wasn't even like hey I think you killed someone so I'm gonna call the cops. He felt just, he actually felt just why? I think that he was using it as an excuse to get a lower sentence because he needed a reason to justify it as a crime of passion. And I don't think that he had a reason. I think that he found men that were defenseless, that were somewhat his friends, he would invite them over and then he would murder them. And Rian claimed that he did cry tears of sadness for the second victim as well, but also in the same breath he said.

After the first murder, it was like, I didn't feel any burden when I killed again. I knew how it should be done. Based on experience, I knew what to expect. As it progressed, the burden lessened, you know? He buried Augustinus in his backyard as well as over the course of the next eight months. He would bury five more people.

And he claims to not even remember why he killed these 5 victims. In fact, he claims he doesn't even remember much about the actual murders themselves because they were, say it with me, crimes of passion. Yeah, apparently your hippocampus shuts off when you're doing something quote in passion. He did claim that 2 of the victims grove to his private parts, so he had to commit double homicide for that. And as far as I know, the only one instance where Rianne killed a woman was when he also killed her child.

32-year-old Nanik Hidayadi and her three-year-old daughter Sylvia. They were at a local gym when they ran into Rianne, and like I said, other than when he feels the urge to murder people, the guy has a very scary ability to be charming, to be friend people he's outgoing, he's non-threatening, he makes people, the guy has a very scary ability to be charming, to be friend people. He's outgoing, he's non-threatening, he makes people feel comfortable, he's very approachable. So that's what he did. To Nanik and her daughter, they became friends. They were invited over to Rihans house one day, and it was all a friendly happy banter.

That is until Nanik saw one of Rihans nude photos just hanging out. I don't know. Apparently this guy just keeps nude photos of himself around the house on display, which side note he lives with his parents, so what is that about? And second of all, imagine you're having a friend over, and you know they're bringing a three year old. It would be smart and wise, and probably the legal thing to do by doing some housekeeping first.

AKA, put your nudes in a drawer. But Rian claims, and this is why I don't believe a word of what he says when it comes to what provoked him to murder his victims. He claims, Naniq saw one, she took one look at his nudes, and she was so impressed by his body that she was like, I need to have sex with you. And he told her, no, no, no, no, I'm not into it. And she looked around and leaned in and said, Oh, is it true that you're gay? And this sent him into a blind rage. He said he grabbed a stone, a stone, and bludgeoned her to death in front of her traumatized

screaming three-year-old. And when he was done covered in blood, eyes praised, looking like the villain of a horror movie, he turned to the scared child and hit her over and over and over till her screams doled. And then finally she was silent. Listen, I don't get it. I don't get why Rihanna was so upset at her for asking if he was gay when he was openly

gay and he was comfortable in his own skin. I think that he killed her out of pure blood lust and he came up with this half-assed reason so that he could try to argue that these were crimes of passion. And as you can see, every excuse is almost like a like a mimic of human morality. Right? The first victim, it's like, okay, most people can agree that you should be comfortable in your own skin. You should be proud to be gay. You should be proud of your sexuality. So he uses that as an excuse. I don't think that's the real reason he killed him. The second one, it's like, oh, he accused me of doing something that I didn't do. Again, a conversation that a lot of humans, it almost feels like an AI is trying to

copy a human. And the reasons for the murder, do you see that? There's no way anyone could believe that's the reason that he killed these people. And this one, I mean, this is a very non-believeable scenario. It doesn't even make sense. He would even later say, it was hard for me. For me, you know? It was a big blow to me because I love small children. So how could I kill a child?

I regret it so much. It's like he's trying to mimic humans like emotion, but he doesn't get it quite right. Yeah. So he thinks, oh, this will make everybody feel the anger that I feel. Yes. But I'm sorry, nobody feels this way.

It's like he's like, okay, everybody knows the feeling of being accused of something they didn't do and they can rally behind that feeling of injustice. So I killed someone and then everyone's like, oh, whoa, no. Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, it's interesting now. And it's almost like an elementary version of those reasons.

But when you hear him talk about those reasons, it's scary because his mannerisms, his body language, his face, the way that he talks, it makes it feel like genuine responses. It doesn't feel scripted, it doesn't feel fake, it doesn't feel like he's a serial killer trying to get out of a big sentence. It feels like he's genuinely thinking about the question and he's like, okay, so this is how I feel. Scary, so terrifying. I mean, like when you put it all on paper

It's obvious that this man is a cold-blooded killer, right? But like I said, watch the interviews. It's in the show notes and watch the part where he's not talking about the crimes Or little moments where he's talking about how much we're more see-haz. It's it's convincing. Even his non-verbal communication, his body language. This guy has perfected the facial details of mirroring an emotion. I think he could even trick some of the most emotionally high IQ'd people out there. It's so compelling to believe that he has remorse. Until you turn the video off, then you realize, oh my god, no, he doesn't.

Of course he doesn't. And one of Rian's last victims was 30-year-old Grady Adams, who he killed January of 2008. Now, the crazy part is Rian introduced Grady to his friends before murdering him. And add to that, Rian's friend had taken a picture of Rian and Grady together when they all met. So this would have been incredibly incriminating damning evidence. Let's say if, if, Grady just happened to disappear one day after spending the night with Rian, very incriminating. There's even pictures of them together. But Rian was calculating. He thought ahead. He

was a forward thinker. One day, he comes up to his friend. It's like, hey, can I borrow your phone? I just want to get the pictures that we had from that night. Good memories. I want to send them to my phone. So his friend passes his phone over, and instead of sending himself those pictures, he permanently deleted them from his friend's phone. So Gon was all the evidence that Rianne even knew Grady. And he went on to murder Grady, like all the previous murders. Rianne blamed his temper and passion for the murder.

He said, you know, when I get angry, it's just like one of my weaknesses. Like when I'm angry, I mean, the only thing on my mind is where can I take this out? Where can I vent? I feel like I have this tunnel vision and the only relief is to, um, kill. Listen, it is still not sounding like a crime of passion to me. And by the way, May of 2008 rolls around and Rihanna's living his best life. Like there's no remorse, there's no holding him back, he has no conscious. He finally moved to his dream place. Jakarta. He moved in with his boyfriend, Novel Andreas, and for the first time in his life, Rihanna said that he was truly happy, just so happy, until he murdered again. And this time things were different. Rihanna wasn't home. He wasn't familiar with his surroundings.

He didn't have a private yard to use as a private cemetery. He didn't have a dark shed to dismember bodies if needed. So July 2009, he's hanging out at his apartment with his friend Harry Suntal So, which by the way, he invited Harry over, and Harry showed up to hang out. Now, according to Rihon, Harry saw a photo of Rihian's boyfriend in the apartment because he

lives there too. The boyfriend, but he's not home. And he's like, whoa, that's your boyfriend? Well if you're done or if you don't mind, can I have a go at him? This is what he claims. Listen, again, I'm skeptical to believe that this is true, but let's just say it is, this might warrant a punch or a fight or some very stern words and a kick out of the house, right? But not murder.

But Rian said that he was pissed. He said, my relationship is exclusive. Despite the homophobic belief back in the day that gay men just want to have sex with anyone that's gay, regardless of their relationship status, that all gay men are polyamorous and that anything goes, this is the love of my life. So again, it sounds so surface level reasoning that he thinks humans can get behind. He said it was bothering him that Harry had said that. And then Harry kept going.

Harry offended him even further by talking about novellas if he was some sort of commodity. Like he was a piece of meat to pass around at the barbecue party. Yeah. Again, if this story is true, I would just, I don't know, kick the guy out. But Rihans said he stayed calm. And, you know, Harry, not all gay men are promiscuous. Love is really important to me, and it makes me furious when people say that there's no love and loyalty in the gay world. But allegedly, Harry kept pushing

and digging into a deeper hole. Allegedly, Harry started offering up money, cash, luxury items that he had at home in exchange for a night with Rihon's boyfriend. Allegedly, he offered Rihon his entire car for one night with his boyfriend. Again, am I the only one finding these versions events hard to believe? Suri'on said that he blacked out. He said, I can't really explain how it happened. I just remember being furious and jealous. And then I blacked out. I woke up and realized that he was dead. I saw him all cut up, pieces of his flesh all over my lap,

the blood that smelled everywhere. You know, I saw red everywhere, not figuratively, to indicate how mad he was, but literally, You know, I saw red everywhere. Not figuratively, to indicate how mad he was, but literally. You know, I was in a sea of blood, a pool of blood, and pieces from me were spewed out around me, there was human flesh pieces of dead body everywhere. Rian claimed that he had sat there in shock, and then he put two and two together, and he realized that he had just murdered Harry. Again, this is like what his tenth murder? So he freaked out, dropped the knife that was in his hand, and for the first time since his killings, he said he felt nervous for real this time. He said, I was gripped with

extraordinary fear. All I wanted to do immediately was get rid of him. And I didn't have a backyard cemetery at this point, so I had to get creative. Rian dragged Harry into the bathroom and spent the next few hours dismembering Harry's body, trapped him up into seven pieces, stuffed the body parts into garbage bags, travel bags, and distributed them around the streets of Jakarta. Just four days later, Podestrian's discovered one of the bags, the one containing his severed head, and the police were called. And it wasn't long until another call, another back of body parts, another back of body parts.

Now some sources say that the body parts weren't just dismembered, but they were also skewered, like turns into skewers of meat, which I don't know if I should believe, but I am kind of inclined to believe it because it sounds like something that they would do, because then it makes it look like it was some sort of meat that wasn't cooked at a restaurant or maybe in someone's home, and then was discarded. It's kind of like the curry killer. So yeah, there's that. Anyway, even though the police found the body, Rihanna was feeling cocky because there was no way to lead the body back to him. Well, except for the fact that Harry's car was parked outside his apartment and had been for the last four days. Oh, and how he and his boyfriend were going on

shopping sprees on all of Harry's bank cards and his credit cards. But other than that, nothing to lead back to him. Oh yeah, nothing. So Rihanna also naively assumed that nobody would care about the murder. The local police in his hometown barely cared when locals went missing in their small population as it is. Why would the police care that one in what?

10 million people were found dead? It was a misinformed thought. Jakarta is a huge urban center. A murder like this is not gonna go unnoticed. In fact, it put millions of citizens in Jakarta in an anxious nervous on-edge state. And that was driving so much pressure to the police force to solve the crime, catch the killer before they,

they get another one. So Rian was arrested in an anti-climactic way, because this guy is not trying to hide it all. He straight up spending money on Harry's card, even after the dismembered body parts were found. I mean the audacity of this guy. So yeah, he was arrested July 15th, 2008. Rian was only 30 years old.

And after hours of intense interrogation he broke down and confessed. Not to Harry's murder, but to all 11 of his known murders. He was surprisingly cooperative, he led the police to his family home, and he stood there pointing at the soil while he watched as they dug up all his victims that were buried. Prematurally, without remorse, with no graves stone, with no family around. The police dug up ten bodies in varying stages of decomposition, and in Mianzold Rim they found plastic bags, a hammer with dried blood on it, and bone fragments on it.

When the police interviewed Rian, he said, to be honest, I don't even know half the names of the people you found there. If you really want me to come from their identities identities, I'm gonna need some pictures or something. And the rest of the victims, yeah, they were my friends, so I knew them. They were gay men like me. But they made me feel cheap though, you know, I got angry. We fought and I accidentally killed them. I love how he said accidentally, as if things like this just happened, and he didn't

just stab and bludgeon someone multiple times until they were dead. Then he continued to explain, it comes down to not wanting to be put down or accused by others. I had to stand up for myself, you know? I had to fight for myself. I always fight for my rights. I don't like when things connected to my self-worth are being ridiculed. I didn't even make sense.

He snuck up on the first victim unprovoked in the bathroom. What do you mean you had to stand up for yourself? What do you mean you had to be? You were being put down. I mean, none of it makes sense whatsoever. Again, it sounds like he's mimicking things that he's heard. It just reminds me of the Google AI Lambda that everybody is questioning. Is she smart that she's picking up these human emotions and these human conversations

to regurgitate in conversations? Or is she sentient. This guy reminds me of that. So side now go watch the interview which he claimed that he was suffering from typhus while he was in prison, which he still did interviews for this documentary, even though he claimed he was suffering from headaches, chills, fevers, and general pains, but he said, I can't do it. Because I promised I would.

And I always followed through. So yeah, the admirable moral guy showed up again. Was he really sick or was this another brain cancer manipulation tactic? His trial began December 2008. It lasted for four months. And the prosecution was open about seeking the death penalty since day one. So this is a high stakes, highly public trial. And one of the most

important witnesses to take the stand during the entire trial was Dr. Strylitz Saruano. Dr. Saruano said that Rian was straight up a sociopath. He was charming, manipulative, and exceptionally good at faking emotions and pretending to have regular human emotions. But they were all expertly faked. He crafted each one, each emotion. Every second of every conversation, he was a master manipulator. The doctors said Rian openly showed disdain for Dr. Sarwano and even called him a liar

because one time the doctor showed Rian pictures of his family and Rian burst into tears. Rian said, I cried instantly because I imagined myself, lonely, in a dark dark confining prison cell. And it was heartbreaking knowing that little boy in that picture right there was going to spend the rest of his life in a damp isolated cell. Just made me feel very distraught. But the evil doctor is accusing me of faking it.

He accused me of having crocodile tears and that made me very angry. But the doctor would testify that the primary motivation behind the murders is genuinely a dislike for the victims and straight up a yearn for killing. That's it. The doctor also stated that he did not believe that the murders were crimes of passion. He claimed that Rian knew what he was doing was wrong. Plus, there was evidence of premeditation for the murder of Harry Santoso. He literally reached out to him like he did most of his other victims and was like, hey, you want to

come over? So this case was sensational in Indonesia. It gained a ton of traction in the media because everybody wanted to come up with their own motives for the murders because let's be real. This guy's motives that he claimed were the reasons they all sounded like excuses or lies. A lot of the public settled on the idea that Rianne killed for money, for material goods, to steal from his victims, and Rianne was pissed when he read about this, he responded angrily

to the media outlets. I hate the media speculating material good as the motive for the murders. Whatever the victims wore when they came to my house, I buried with their bodies, the phone, the watch, whatever they had on me. I didn't even steal their cars. I can't explain my motive. How can someone be that evil? I don't know.

How can someone be that evil? Yeah. Wow. So in April of 2009, Rihanna was found guilty of the murder and mutilation of Harry Santozo. The jury believed the crime was premeditated. They sentenced Rihanna to the death penalty. And while the sentence was being read, cameras caught Rihanna smiling, just basking in the spotlight, enjoying being the center of attention for his grisly accomplishments. When he later was questioned about it, like,

why were you smiling that so creepy? What were you doing? He said, after the ruling I was calm, I could still smile and go about my daily routine. You know, everybody has to die. What's sad is just the way that I have to die. Why should I die like this? I mean, why did your victims have to die like that? Not to worry though, Rianne said he would try to make sure and leave his legacy behind. He wrote an autobiography in prison called The Untold Story of Rian. I did look for the book, no I could not find it. But apparently he included sketches of where he buried his victims, and he wrote things like, every time I performed one of those vicious acts, I cried helplessly. And I kept getting dragged into the deep, dark abyss.

My eyes see nothing, I'm enveloped by darkness, I try to feel feel my way through but I'm unable to tell the shadows apart Weirdly in prison rian reconnected with his evil abusive mom that he claimed he hated and was the reason He was the way that he was and he kept calling her to tell her how much he he missed her how homesick he was Oh, and how much he missed dad I don't know it seems convenient since it seemed like his family were trying to Help pay his legal bill so he could try and get an appeal and while in prison Dad? I don't know, it seems convenient since it seemed like his family were trying to help pay his legal bills so he could try and get an appeal. And while in prison, yeah, as if this guy couldn't get worse, two things happened.

First of all, the guards started calling him the singing serial killer. And Rian thought that it was so quirky and fun. He leaned into it and recorded a whole studio album. Do not ask me how you can record a whole studio album in prison, but he did it. Apparently, he was even approached by producers, so he dropped an album called The Last Performance. It had 12 songs, and each song allegedly had a meaning behind it, so for example, please understand beloved was written for his then boyfriend, and then forgive me mother was written for his mother. And a song named Sun was just about two lovers

who were missing each other so much because they were forced to be separated, but death would reunite them. About his music, Rihon claimed. I loved writing the songs, because I'm tired of these shackles in my life. I'm tired of the society that I live in, a society full of strict rules,

which, side note, I would hardly in, a society full of strict rules. Which I'd known I would hardly call not committing multiple murders of strict rule. He said that he was tired of the strict rules, and he just wanted to be himself. I've always followed the rules that were put upon me by other people, and that just caused me so much harm. And then more news from prison. In 2010, Rihanna announced that he planned to marry a woman. So, either he discovered that he was bisexual or...

Well, this, I know is the real reason, but Rihanna was quite open about it. He said that he was marrying this woman who happened to be a drug dealer, because it was his mom's wish that he marry a woman. So, he was doing it for her. Literally, the guy is marrying a woman so that his mommy can be happy. I just, I don't get it. The guy totally transformed into a total mommy's boy after he spent his entire life terrorizing her.

It's terrifying to think about. I mean, imagine having a child like that. What do you do? As far as I can tell, Rianna is still in prison. Alive, awaiting execution, and apparently he's still quote cute in prison. Oh and by the way, he's mainly called the Indonesian Jeffrey Dahmer because he's gay, he's a serial killer, and he happened to dismember one of his victims. So that's where he got the next thing, but it's weird, no? What are your thoughts on this one?

It's a pretty classic psychopath serial killer. Just everything is alarming. And I think what really makes this whole thing spookier is if you go to the show notes and you watch that interview, the way that he smiles, the way that he interacts with the interviewer, it makes you get goosebumps. I was recently reading a book about psychopath. Okay. So they were like trying to see what you can study from you know psychopath like well What difference is their brain? It was saying that the classic

Experiment they did a train is moving at a speed Yes, do you kill the one person or like the five people? Yes, the trolley so five people yes five people standing in the way You can switch a button, you know the train goes to the other rail and just kill one person instead of five. What you do it, so most people will have trouble deciding, but psychopath will switch the flip in a heartbeat. Because it makes logical sense. Exactly. And they don't feel emotional.

They don't feel it. Exactly. Wow. Like they won't feel bad. It's like a really obvious question for them. They will think you're crazy if you don't flip a switch. You know, there are people who will flip the switch, but it's after like two hours of a family long debate, you know?

Yeah, you feel the, oh my God, did I do the right thing? Yeah. Did I kill someone? Is it fate now in my interfering with fate? Did I, in my murderer now by pressing, but then doing nothing is also bad. Yeah, it's a whole debate. This is not to say that all psychopaths

or sociopaths are bad. I've actually seen a lot of videos on TikTok of people being like, hey, I was diagnosed as a sociopath and they're really open about it and they say, I do not feel things and when I was young, I was like a terror. I didn't know. So I would just try to manipulate my parents and I would throw these 10 trumps to get what I wanted and now as an adult, I know what's going on. So there are a lot of psychopaths, sociopaths who are capable of being in healthy relationships who are capable of being good, contributing members of society. And then you have people like him.

And it's so terrifying because you could never tell them apart. Or apart from just anyone, you know? What are your thoughts? And make sure to stay tuned for Sunday's mini-sode. And I'll see you guys on Sunday. Stay safe. Bye!