Rotten Mango - #214: The Rape & Murder of a Transgender Man That Changed a Country (Case of Brandon Teena)  

Episode Date: November 13, 2022

Becoming a mom is a dream for a lot of people. Especially Tom’s mom. She saw all the other moms and their deep connections with their beautiful children. So when Tom was born, she was ready for that. She would never get it. Her own son made her nervous. He made her feel unsettled. There was just something sinister about the way he did everything. He never cried, he would sit for hours in a cold bathtub, unmoving and staring at the wall. He liked to light things on fire… watching everything around it burn. Tom’s mom was… scared of him. She knew there was something wrong with him, but she didn’t know what. She had no idea that he would go on to commit a triple homicide that would forever change the world. Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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in all states or situations. Price is very based on how you buy. Batibing Batibu Welcome to this week's mini-sode of Rotten Mangle. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. Guys we have Rotten Mangle merch live on fanjoy.co.c slash Stephanie Sue. And it is the most exciting merch drop that I've ever done. We have Letterman jackets, the cutest hoodies, we have shirts.

We even have pajamas from a different launch, but please go check it out. The Rotten Mink of Merch is going to keep you cozy while you listen to this, so that will be in the show notes. Okay, being a mom is a dream for a lot of people. You're like, no, it's not. Okay, but for a lot of people it is, especially Tom's mom.

She was ready for the hardship. She was ready for the pain. She's not in naive bliss. She knows it's gonna be hard. It's gonna rip her apart. But at the end of the day, she saw all the other moms. They have these dark circles just drooping from their eyes. They barely get any sleep.

Their hair is messy. They haven't showered in five days. But the way that they look at their baby, it was like this, this connection, this love that they have. The way that the baby would coup and smile up at their mom with little half moons forming in their eyes, that's what she wanted, her whole life. So when baby Tom was born, I mean she knew it was gonna be tough, but she was ready. They never bonded. She was shocked. I mean she didn't expect it to turn out like this because Tom was strange. There was this odd aura around him from the

get go. She didn't even know how to put her finger on it. She felt guilty herself thinking, I mean isn't it weird that I think my own child is strange? It's just a baby. Why do I think this baby is strange? But he just had this unsettling energy. There was something different about him that she couldn't even quite put her finger on. Everything he did was strange. He would eat so slow. If you tried to feed him things he needed to eat,

he would put the food in his mouth and chew and chew and chew and chew and then gag. You're like, that sounds like normal children struggles. But listen, Tom's mom said there was just something else about him. Like when she tried to potty train him, he would sit in the morning on the potty chair for an hour, not using it. I mean, it was exhausting every morning shit to sit him down and practically chain him to the potty chair.

By the time that he got up, he had a ring around his butt. And immediately, right when he stood up, he would pee all over the floor, like clockwork, every single time. Sharon said, I know you guys don't think this is strange, but it gets stranger. I mean, it's like all the details, just not normal. Tom would never cry, like hardly ever cry as a baby.

Not even as a kid or a toddler or a teenager, but as a baby. When Tom would be put in the bath, he would sit in the bath till the water was ice cold. Not even having fun, just sitting there, zoning out. When Sharon would ask, Tom honey, why are you still in there? He would just shrug his shoulders. And this is all when he's a kid. It only got worse as he got older. He started making a habit of setting grass on fire. They never had him checked out. No.

So he would light up the grass behind his house, beat up the neighborhood boys. It's said that he had sliced his own stomach open to see what was going on inside. I know these sound like all the other stories that we talk about, but Sharon said her son was strange. There was something off about him ever since he was a kid. He really was one of those creepy kids in the horror movies. But what's worse is that he would go on to commit one of the most controversial, scandalous, triple homicides to ever occur. As always, full show notes are available at rottenmangopodcast.com, but there is an in-depth book on this case that the author worked very closely with the families of the victims. There's a lot of information in there that you cannot find online, and it's called

All He Wanted by Aphrodite Jones. The problem is, the book is really triggering and takes a lot of work to get through, mainly because of the consistent misgendering and lack of knowledge on the transgender community that is rampant in this book, I mean, do in part to when the book was published. So at the center of today's case is a transgender man named Brandon, and the book was even initially titled all she wanted literally misgendering the victim in the book title. However, the Kindle version has been updated now to all he wanted, along with a deep apology from the author, where she explains the importance of educating yourself on LGBTQ plus experiences. She admits that she was ignorant.

She said at scale, the community was ignorant at the time. I mean, to give you some insight on how bad it was, she said, to give you some insight on how bad it was, when I was researching and writing about the world of Brandon Tina, Brandon was actually considered to be perverted instead of transgender. The idea of someone being transgender was not a concept people could wrap their brains around in this small town. I say this because I heard people shouting loop things to the transgender people who came to the courthouse during the murder trials. I say this because local law enforcement denied the murder of Brandon was a hate crime. Arodite claimed that when she was writing this book, the term LGBT did not exist in America.

And the word transgender was just not a word that was used in mainstream vocabulary like it is now. She said, at worst, people considered a transgender person a freak. And at best, they were considered people who were having identity crisis. Aphrodite does own up to her own ignorance in the new author's note and admits that she was just not knowledgeable on the topic. She actually wrote the book using the interviews with Brandon's family and Brandon's family were completely in denial of his gender identity. They actually made a few attempts to claim Brandon wasn't, I quote, a woman to the public.

I am not in a position to even forgive the author for her past mistakes or really having an opinion on it, but I do hope that it's encouraging even forgive the author for her past mistakes or really have an opinion on it But I do hope that it's encouraging that she tried to mend her mistakes because I think it reflects how far we've come as society But also sad to see how long it took and sad to see that there's so much more work to be done So although the book has changed the title and there's like the author's note when referring to Brandon's childhood He's still misgendered in the book So he's still called the wrong pronouns until he presents as a male.

Just thought that's important to note in case anyone wants to read it and would find it triggering. So with that being said, the book is written on legal documents, extensive interviews, like this is genuinely the best deep dive that you're gonna get on it

in terms of getting all the facts, but it is, the whole case in general is very triggering. So with that being said, let's get into it. Acceptance by family is incredibly important. Humans are just wired that way. I mean, it's the reason that even if you're being bullied, everyone tells you, why do you care? Ignore the bullies.

You don't need the bullies. I mean, just go read a book and hang out with yourself. It's, you know, long awaited me time. You're going to enjoy it later. They're lame anyway. It doesn't really matter. Because we will never escape the real, raw biological need to belong to a group.

A lot of psychologists think it's because we've evolved to be attracted to belonging. Back then, our ancestors were weak. We didn't have toilets, we didn't have these houses with security cameras and ring doorbells and giant locks. We had no fur, so we were constantly cold if we were outside. We were physically very vulnerable to the world. So living in a group ensures your safety. And now being part of a group still makes humans feel safe and secure,

even though you technically don't need it, I guess. It's to the point where some study show that people who live isolated and rejected lives that never feel a sense of belonging, they have poor physical health. Yeah, these people don't sleep well, they have immune systems that sputter, they even tend to die sooner than people who had a community or even just a family that they belong to. Hmm, so interesting. Right, and clearly, Brandon did not get that. I mean, I can't even imagine living in a world that doesn't even see me for who I am. Like imagine you're stuck in a body

that doesn't resonate with who you are on the inside, and then society is mad at you for it. Brandon Tina was born in Lincoln, Nebraska, though that's not his birth name. He actually switched his first and last name, so it seems like he took his last name to be his first name. So technically it's the Brandon family. Does that make sense? I don't want to dead name him, so I don't want last name to be his first name. So technically it's the Brandon family. Does that make sense?

I don't want to dead name him. So I don't want to call him by his birth name. Anyway, Joanne and Pat Brandon met when they were super young. These are Brandon's parents. They were little children when they started having children. Joanne was pregnant at 13 years old, with not Brandon, but his older sister Tammy. They wanted to try and do the right thing.

They were honestly a lot more responsible than me when I was 13. So they actually have this cute story. Okay, I don't know if cute is the word. But Joanne had this traumatic life experience where her dad walked out on her family. To go propose, literally walk down the street and propose to a young woman in the neighborhood. While his wife and kids are just a couple of houses down, it was so traumatic for Joanne and her mom and the whole family.

I mean the fact that Joanne's mom was left to take care of everything, I mean she was devastated. Joanne was so grossed out at this young age, she vowed she swore to herself that she would never marry a man, she would never fall in love. All men do is break your hearts and they betray you and go marry your neighbor and they ain't shit. That's literally what she's thinking And then she's like 12 and she meets Pat and she's like I'm gonna marry the sky And it worked out everything changed they get married they have kids they start working They try to put food on the table. They really did love and respect each other

I mean they had a lot of love to give to their children too So Joanne gets pregnant a second time. She's only 16 So she's pregnant with Brandon now and it wasn't the pregnancy. That was the problem It was the fact that while she was heavily pregnant Pat died. He's 16. He died Too much a fatal car accident So he went fishing and it was just a bizarre accident that nobody even knew how to talk about it. He went fishing and on his drive home the car flipped over three times and went over a bridge. So now Pat is gone and Joanne has lost her partner,

her husband, the father of her children, he is gone. I mean it's terrifying for a 16 year old Joanne and it's heartbreaking. She's 16, she has a young toddler to take care of, she's heavily pregnant and her husband just died and she's a widow all at 16. Prior to Pat's death, the two of them they had a lot going on about their dreams. They had ambitions. They had all these things that they wanted to conquer in life. Sure, it's tough now, but both of them were willing to put in the work. Joanne thought about being a model or running a fashion company, but now all she could think about was basic survival.

She had to move back in with her mom, get a job at a retail store, she's heavily pregnant, she's depressed, she's rapidly gaining weight, which only fueled her depression more, and if the pregnancy was tough, the delivery was literal hell. The hospital staff rushed her immediately to the ICU right after she pushed baby Brandon out

and she's laying there, exhausted with a bunch of tubes just protruding out of her. She's so swollen that the doctors had to cut the rings off her fingers. The doctors were pretty certain that she wasn't going to make it. She had a very nasty infection, but she did make it. After five long days alone suffering in the ICU, Joanne made it out, but it was five long days that she didn't get to see her baby at all. Joanne and her son were alive, but the problem was, she was not going to be a single mom to two kids with no help. I really think that she's just in straight up survival mode. She's exhausted, she's tired, emotionally drained, she just needs help from anyone. And

that came in the form of jug You're like jug like a milk jug. You're like jug head from Riverdale. No, um, I don't know if the guy's name is jug So they call him when Brandon was two Joanne got married to a guy named jug and Jug was actually really good with the kids Brandon never had a chance to meet Pat his biological dad So he just accepted Jug as his dad. He even called him daddy.

It sounds cute and wholesome, right? It sounds like life is gonna get easier, right? The situation was strange. Joanne and Jug's relationship was just off-balance. Jug would do anything for Joanne, he was infatuated with her, he basically worshipped the ground that she walked on. If she said jump, he would climb to the roof and jump off the building with no hesitation. He was madly in love with her.

Meanwhile, Joanne just tolerated him. That was kind of the vibe. Even when they were getting married, it was Joanne's turn to say, I do. But she paused and hesitated for so long that Jugg's dad got up from the crowd Joanne we please say I do Everyone's waiting she said yeah, I do So it's clear Joanne married jug for stability for help for the kids I mean life is complicated, you know, maybe this works for that. I don't want to judge anyone's relationship

But um right after I say that, Jug was kind of toxic. He was, he loved her, but this wasn't the perfect, comfortable, cushy, emotionally stable relationship for Joanne. Jug was obsessed with her to the point where he constantly accused her of flirting with guys. Even if his own friends would hit on Joanne. Jug's own friends would hit on Joanne,

which is a huge red flag, but he's blaming Joanne for it. Saying like, why would my friends hit on Joanne, which is a huge red flag, but he's blaming Joanne for it, saying like, why would my friends hit on you unless you were giving them some sort of sign? Like, my friends would not just randomly hit on you. Joanne would later say, well you're just not compatible. I married him for the wrong reasons, which wasn't fair to him, but he was a good stepfather. He did love the kids and they loved him. So they were together for five years, and that was probably the best five years of Brandon's life. Jugg really was a good dad. He taught him how to ride a bike, roller skate, he

took the kids trick or treating, he would dress up as Santa on Christmas, he took the camping, hiking, to go ride horses. Brandon was probably the closest to Jugg. So they were like practically connected at the hip. So when Jouanne and Jugg get divorced, I, his home life is shattered, just cut right down the middle, ripped. But other than that trauma, a lot of people said that Brandon had a pretty normal childhood.

He was raised Catholic. He went to church. He attended a Catholic school, which side note he got good grades. But according to most of the kids of the church, everyone at this school, literally everyone at this school, wanted to be a priest or a nun when they grew up.

Like not a single soul was like, I think I want to be a YouTuber. Every single one of them was like, I'm going to be a nun. I mean, they were being conditioned to want to be one. So it was completely normal. But Tammy, Brandon's older sister, said, you know, it did, it did give me a moment when Brandon wanted to be a priest and not a nun. So at home, he would put on a bathrobe and convince friends to attend his mass. But Tammy didn't put too much emphasis on it because, you know, she and her mom always

lightheartedly poked fun at the fact that Brandon was a quote-tom boy. And I'm going to refer to Brandon as the right pronouns, but just know that when his mother and sister talked about him, they used she and her. Tammy said, mom pretty much made him wear dresses to school and he hated them. He just felt uncomfortable and he would tell mom, I like him. And he would argue with my mom all morning about it. But for his school pictures, he would have to wear a dress. Brandon's mom said, oh, he was a real Tom boy.

But he could go either way. When he was at St. Mary's and it got to the point where he didn't want to wear dresses anymore, I asked him, what's wrong? And he said, well, mom, when you walk up those steps, those boys can look right up your dress. And it's cold. Now, I'm not saying that Brandon's parents or his whole family should have picked up something from that experience. There are a lot of people who just don't like wearing dresses and has nothing to do with gender identity, but it just gets weird.

Later, it seems almost like Brandon's mom wants to deny his identity by arguing that Brandon had great school crushes on boys in elementary school. Which like, I don't even know how that's a valid point because sexual identity has nothing to do with gender identity. I mean, he could just be bisexual. And also, do you remember when you were like seven? I was thinking, oh yeah, I'm gonna marry this not-nose kid, for sure. Look at all that. It'snot coming out of his freaking nose. He's so cute.

I'm seven. He's seven. We're gonna literally get married tomorrow. I mean, I'm just saying. You kinda don't know what you're doing at seven. So most of the time Brandon kept to himself, but there was that one friend that he loved no matter what, and her name was Sarah Gap. And I think she could relate to Brandon a lot.

She came from an intense house with a very weird relationship with her mom. I mean, Sarah's house was different, but still weird. Her mom was so religious, she was the type that would beat Sarah for no reason other than God told her to. Yeah, what? God told me to whoop your ass.

I know, it's like so bizarre. She's like, God told me you're hiding a ass there. I know, it's like so bizarre. She's like, God told me you're hiding a secret, so I'm gonna beat it out of you. If Sarah was too sick to go to church, she would get beat. So basically she got beat for getting sick. There was a ton of abuse in the house. Sarah said, my mom had like no feelings. She uses religion as her stand for everything,

like it's her excuse. If I even made a peep in church, I would get hit 10 times with a board. If I put my hands up in the way she would hit me on the head on the arms the legs, she would hit anything that was open. There was constant abuse. I mean from the time I was like seven, she called me a slut. I didn't even know what a slut was. Our house was so bad that my mom built this altar. It was on the piano in the living room. There were candles, crucifixes, a statue of Mary, rosary, stuff like that.

Every time you walk through the living room, which the layout of the house, I mean you almost always have to walk through the living room to get to the kitchen, to get to the bedrooms, to the hallway, you would have to fully get on your knees and kiss the floor in front of the altar. If you ever skipped that or walked past it without doing it, you would get beat and sent to your room for the rest of the night. She said, I'm not bullshitting. Every day you had to do this. And then finally, all of us started walking out in the dead of winter. We would go out the front door, make it to the back door to get to the kitchen around the house so we didn't have to pass through the living room. And we were

all getting sick and my mom's like, you're all going to hell. Our house was like a psycho place. I mean, you didn't ever want to go over there. Sarah would also later hint that there was sexual abuse going on in the house. So she's confiding all of this to Brandon. And he's like, wait, something similar happened to me, meaning that he was also sexually abused by a male family relative.

And Brandon told Sarah, you know, the relative would quote, whip out his thing in front of Brandon and would touch Brandon inappropriately while saying things like, oh you like it, you know this feels good, you know you don't want me to stop. So they're talking about all these things with each other and neither of them know the gravity of the situation because they're like what, seven, eight, they're too young to know what's happening and they're too young to know it's sexual assault. They just knew

that they didn't like it, they knew that it was wrong and that they knew that they weren't allowed to tell anyone about it Sarah said and also Sarah did Miss gender Brandon, but I'm gonna fix it She said at that point in time he didn't want anyone to know what happened He didn't want the relative to be mad at him, you know if people found out and the relative got in trouble I don't know Brandon was just embarrassed no matter what he did to him, he still loved him. I couldn't understand it. Because after everything I went through with my mom, I hated her, and I wanted her dead. There were other reasons why the two were close friends. Other than their ability to relate to each other's abusive homes, they both went to Pius X High School. This is like a prestigious

Catholic high school in the area. Majority of the students are wealthy. They live in mansions with fountains in the driveway and beautiful rose gardens, but Brandon and Sarah, they both came from rather modest backgrounds. So what's interesting is that you would imagine being stuck in this type of environment would be intimidating, but at least for Brandon, he thought it was hilarious. He pranked the school every chance he got. He literally thought it was hilarious. He stole all the toilet seats from the school one day. Oh, what? All the toilet seats. Okay. I mean, toilet seats are pretty heavy and they're pretty big. I don't know how you steal all of them, but he stole all of them.

And I think they just got a cackel of thinking about all these rich kids who never had a hard day in their life. Suddenly they're like, oh my god. How do I pee? Let's take the Lamborghini home to go pee. He would skip class. He didn't pay much attention to the school dress code, so Brandon was expected to wear skirts, but he would show up to the school in slacks. And he's like, I mean, technically, it's not against dress code.

The dress code only stated that the skirts couldn't be above the knees. It didn't say anything about not wearing skirts and wearing pants instead. Because at this point, he's expected to wear a skirt because he's presenting as a girl you get it. So he shows up in pants, and there was not much the school could do about it. I mean, with everything going on, the denial of his family, the sexual abuse from a relative, the lack of a father figure that he wanted, Brandon was a high spirited, fun loving kid. He never took himself seriously, whenever he visited Sarah's house, he would make such

a dramatic deal about getting on his knees in front of the altar, one knee at a time, lips crunched and eyebrows crinkled in a pensive stare, then he would dramatically inch by inch, drop his head onto the ground and give it a big ol' smoochy mooch. Yeah, he would put on a show to make Sarah feel a little bit lighter to get a giggle. And meanwhile, Sarah's mom would turn the other way, because it's clear what he's doing, but what is she gonna do? That's exactly what she demanded, and technically he's going above and beyond to do exactly

what she said. I mean, it's wild to think that he maintained a sense of humor, because around this time, Brandon's family life was freaking falling apart. The house was a wreck. Joanne starts dating a new man who's raging alcoholic. They're just arguing all the time. Tammy, his sister who's 19 at this point, was pregnant and would eventually give birth and give the baby up for adoption, And Brandon, he just wanted to escape.

So he ends up getting a job at McDonald's. This is where everything starts escalating. Well, not at McDonald's, but you get it. Whether you're doing intense to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it.

Download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or pay to description starting at 12.99 per month. Why would you break into these apartments? For money, for drugs, whatever was in there. Why aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? No. Who's going to catch us? What a police. It was the height of the crack era, and instead of locking up drug dealers, some New York City cops had become them. I would suit up in my uniform and we're going to want some drug dealers, and I know how to do it really well.

This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal in NYPD history and the investigation that uncovered it all. Did you consider yourself a rat? 100%. I saved my soul, just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set, an Odyssey originals documentary podcast series, available now in the Odyssey app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a big guy, man, but I love being that 30-month-old-f**ker. I'm not a big guy man, but I love being that dirty mother f***er. So he's 17 and he's at the age where things are changing, you know, his body is changing. Like everyone else, he's discovering his sexuality and he's going through puberty and

Brandon's body is developing and he's not liking it. I mean, it's hard for him, like a lot of transgender people. He felt his body change and he never had a problem with his body before. But now he hated that he was developing breasts. It just repulsed him. They felt heavy, they didn't feel like his body, and when boys would stare at him, he just wanted to gag. It was a really rough time, and I think he just tried to find comfort in anyone. It just happened to be a girl named Tracy Beats. Tracy was a year older. They went to the same school and Brandon had this huge crush on her. Like he would doodle their names together

in his notebooks and it sounds all cute, but it stops being cute real quick when you find out that Tracy was physically abusive. She was obsessed with leaving quote romantic hikis on Brandon's neck, but it wasn't romantic and it wasn't a hikki. She would latch on like a blood sucking parasite onto his neck until there was a giant well to left behind. Sarah would be so shocked. Oh my god! What the fuck is on your neck? Where did you get that?

Oh, Tracy did it. What do you mean Tracy did it? She held me down and kept sucking on my neck. I don't know why. We were just playing around, I guess. What? But it wasn't just aggressive love bites on the neck. Eventually, Brandon moved in with Tracy,

and she allegedly started beating him whenever he broke some random house rule that she set. So Sarah starts noticing all these random bruises all over his arms and wrists, and Sarah's like, it went from Tracy slapping him to Tracy, pushing him to Tracy holding him down and straight up punching him. Brandon would do something, and Tracy would get so mad she would hit him, and then she would immediately apologize, and straight up punching him. Brandon would do something and Tracy would get so mad she would hit him and then she would immediately apologize

and he would forgive her. So they just had this toxic abuse relationship cycle that would eventually end. And now that Brandon's older, he's starting to express himself a lot more in his clothes and his appearance and his true gender identity was starting to shine. He's bandaging his breasts every day

so that it would appear flatter. He's wearing baggy clothes. He had a very short, conventionally masculine type of haircut. Eventually, he would progress to stuffing his pants with socks or even dildos to appear more masculine. And that part is important later. So he's really finding himself, I think. But everyone was like, yeah, no, we don't like that one bit. Because remember, trans people were considered freaks at worst or at best, they were just confused. So that's what the people thought Brandon was in this small town, and they said, and I quote,

nah, she's just a lesbian. There's gonna be a lot of things that are triggering later that also people will judge Brandon for, but I just wanna emphasize, Brandon was not a bad person. He made bad decisions. He was going through one of the hardest human life experiences, I believe. And yet he was so utterly rejected

by everyone. He was just completely alone. So yeah, he made some bad choices. And those he should be held accountable for, but nobody makes enough bad choices to have murder justified, to have hate crimes justified. So Brandon did try to be his best person. When Sarah got pregnant and the baby daddy walked out on her, Brandon stepped up to the plate. He rented a trailer for the two of them and took care of Sarah, made sure she was eating, made sure she was getting rest.

He did her grocery shopping, he would cook for her, he did all the cleaning in the trailer. Brandon would shower his best friend with compliments. Wow. Because she was very insecure and she always felt ugly growing up and Brandon was like, what? No, you got to be confident about yourself.

What are you talking about? But he was also going through a lot. I mean, he had that severe childhood trauma, which side note, a lot of online sources speculate that Brandon was transgender because of his sexual trauma, which like, I'm not a psychology expert, but that's not really how it works, no? I think they're completely unrelated things that were really hard to process and navigate. So these two obstacles are working in tandem

to make Brandon depressed. I don't think one caused the other. So even Brandon's friends, they start to notice that his spark was gone. He was struggling mentally for sure. Like he was either super up or super down with his mood and he did some not so great things. He started stealing.

So sometimes he claimed that he needed money or food, but a lot of the times he just stole to steal. And it's weird because, and I'm not saying like, oh, he stole to steal because he wanted to buy these clothes and stuff. A lot of the times he would steal something, let's say from his sister. He would steal money from his sister.

And then using that money, he would spend it all to buy a gift for his sister, to give her that gift. So some say maybe it was just a compulsion to steal and maybe he hated it so much that he felt guilty and he tried to make up for it by giving the money back to the person that he stole it from in a different way. I have a different theory. My theory is that he just wanted love and acceptance. I think that he had no money and maybe his love languages gift giving and maybe he thought

that when he gave someone a gift, you know, their face lights up and they're hugging you and they're so nice to you, maybe he just wanted that or maybe it was a coping mechanism. Okay, I don't know, but he stole frequently, usually from the people that were closest to him. So because of the theft, you know, Brandon is getting kicked out of every house from his mom's house, Tammy's house, his girlfriend's house's, and he ends up just trying to make things work, and then a life-changing coincidence takes place. Brandon is home one day when the phone rings. Hello? Hey, Billy Brandon had never heard this random girl's voice before but he would soon find out that she was Liz Delano and she kept calling the wrong number Brandon was just about to say oh, sorry, you have the wrong number

It was literally on the tip of his tongue when he thought wait, why don't I just? And he said yeah Oh, okay, Billy. This is Liz again, and I was just wondering, um, Billy, what's your last name? Brinson, Billy Brinson. How old are you? 18. You think you want to meet some time? Sure, babe.

And he hung up. He stared at the phone for a few minutes and pure disbelief, because he didn't think it would work. But it did. I mean, it was a moment that changed the course of his life. Up until this point, Brandon would get offended when people assumed that he was a guy, mainly because they would do it in an offensive way. But this one was genuine. A cute girl had assumed Brandon was a guy just by listening to his voice and he was really

into it. It made him feel so validated, which like sure. I understand that. So, from this point forward, very briefly, he calls himself Billy Brinson. Only briefly though, he goes on a date with Liz. It takes her to the ice-gating rink and the two of them they had a blast. But this is a problem. Well there's two problems. The first being the utmost important. Liz is 13 and Brandon is 18. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And another problem, well I guess it just makes it worse, is that Brandon was actually dating another girl a 14 year old girl by the name of Heather

So super problematic Brandon's having sexual relationships with underage girls and a lot of the times he would lie to him And a lot of the times he would lie to them not about his age, but about other things I don't want to excuse any of these behaviors, but I also think it's important to keep these actions separate from his gender identity. Okay, okay. Anyway, there is speculation as to why Brandon dated a lot of underage girls.

I don't know how to feel about it because I don't think any reason is an excuse, but maybe it's context. Brandon had very strong facial bone structures. He had high cheekbones, a strong jaw, he had these big blue expressivized with thick eyebrows and full lips and he was incredibly attractive.

But he was on the smaller side in terms of stature. He's five five, only weighs about 110 pounds. So it's speculated that this smaller frame didn't make him look quote feminine, but the lack of facial hair, he passed more for like a 14 or 15 year old boy rather than an 18 year old guy. I see.

So maybe that's why he attracted younger girls. I don't know. Okay, that's just a theory that was circulating. I'm not excusing his behavior because he's going through a very difficult journey. I'm just putting it out there. So it's very problematic. And the problematic aspects do continue, but that was my disclaimer. So Brandon moves in with his 14 year old girlfriend Heather, and the two of them, they felt like they had so much in common. They were both raised lower class, single parent household, victims of sexual molestation at the hands of family members, and Heather, I mean, she was blown away by Brandon.

He was more sensitive than other guys that she had dated. She said, Brandon was never afraid to cry in front of me. You know, he was never worried about feeling emasculated. He was more affectionate than the guys that I had dated before. I mean, he was like everybody's dream guy. He knew how woman wanted to be treated. He was romantic. He would take you out to dinner

and bring flowers and roses, just everything. He liked to spend quality time with you, and he tried really hard to get along with my family. But there were some secrets. Heather believed Brandon was biologically a male and had male sex organs. So Heather didn't know it at the time and she was super grateful because Brandon never pressured her into sex. In fact, he said that he didn't want to have sex. He was fine with just cuddling. Heather thought it was such a gentlemanly thing to do. He didn't want to have sex. He was fine with just cuddling.

Heather thought it was such a gentlemanly thing to do. Which it was, but a lot of it had to do with the fact that Brandon didn't want Heather to find out that he didn't have male sex organs. So they weren't having sex. But Joanne is pissed. Yeah, it's weird. Brandon's mom, it's not having it.

It wasn't the fact that her son is living with an underage girl that raised alarms and made her stressed, but it was the fact that he was lying. Listen, I'm not a mom, but I do get the perspective of like, I think any mother would be upset if their child is lying to someone. Maybe you see all the potential risk factors of lying. Lying is generally not a good thing. And something like this, maybe Joanne felt like Heather had the right to know.

But here's my problem with Joanne. First of all, she's not accepting his gender identity, so she's not right either. And secondly, Joanne starts calling Heather's house, her rassing the couple. She would call non-stop and if Heather picked up, Joanne would tell her, and I quote, her name is not Brandon, it's, and then she would dead name him. She's a female. If Brandon picked up the phone, Joanne would ask, are you a lesbian? No, Mom, I don't care if you are. You can be whatever you want to be, just be honest with me. I'm not, Mom.

Look, if you are, that's your choice. All that care about is your welfare. I don't want you walking around lying everyone, though. I need to know what's going on with you. I'm not a lesbian, Mom. I have no desire to be. Well, your hair is awfully short, and it makes you look like a guy.

Like, what kind of conversation is that? Brandon wouldn't respond. He actually recorded some of these calls to present to the police, but he changed his mind about pressing charges. Heather would confront him about these phone calls, and he would just say, don't worry about my mom. She's an alcoholic.

So then later, Heather was so suspicious that Brandon lied and said, well, I was actually born with Brandon lied and said, well, I was actually born with both male and female reproductive organs and my mom made the choice to raise me as a girl. But really, my sex organs are male because I had surgery, so. Which that was a lie. Brandon was not born with both sex organs and he never had an operation done, which by

the way, operations are terrifying, they're painful, they're very, very expensive. Brandon did not have that kind of money. Even if he wanted to get sexual reassignment surgery, I mean, it's just so expensive. And remember how he's working at McDonald's? First of all, I don't think McDonald's is going to pay enough for sexual reassignment surgery because it's an elective surgery in most cases. But also, he was fired. Brandon's personal life was getting more and more tumultuous, so with everything, he couldn't

hold down a job. He was getting fired from every job because he was stealing from them. He was actually arrested multiple times for not only theft, but writing bad checks and using other people's credit cards. He even stole from his girlfriend's mom. So yeah, he had to temporarily move in with a bunch of guys and a trailer. Now this is a super dangerous situation for Brandon. Not everyone was accepting of the way Brandon presented

himself. A few male acquaintances would yell slurs at Brandon. And that was when they were feeling nice. That was when they were in a silly goofy mood. Sometimes they would get drunk and they would get really disgusting. They would talk about beating up Brandon, about jumping him.

They would say things like, and I quote, this is a direct quote. If she wants to be a man, she'd better fight like one. Or even worse, comments like, if all she wants is a dick, she could have just asked me, I could give her some. Even Sarah was afraid that these guys might be hurting Brandon. It was a bad situation, and Brandon was,

his mental health was spiraling. He was getting more depressed. He felt like he had no direction in life, he didn't graduate high school, he had no future plans for his career, he was rejected by everyone, including Heather. So he and Heather had talked about having a future together, having kids, but imagine how isolating that feels. Heather had no idea that it currently wasn't possible for Brandon. I'm not saying it's not possible ever, but again, sexual reassignment surgery and adopting, I mean, it's a huge, huge expense or even surrogacy.

It's not things that everyday people can afford. And on top of that, I'm sure there was so much that Heather didn't know about Brandon at the moment. And it must have been almost depressing to engage in these hopeful conversations with Heather, but he knew it was gonna be a lot harder than just a random heterosexual couple that wants to start a family together. Like, think about how isolating that is.

So he's depressed, he stops eating, he only weighs like 100 pounds now, and he starts to confide in Sarah about his sexual identity. And he's like, Sarah, I think I'm gay. I mean, I don't feel like I'm gay though, but I want to be with other women. It's okay, I don't care if you are. But I mean to me, I don't feel gay that's the thing. Like I feel like I'm a man inside. I don't know what I'm supposed to do, do you hate me? No Brandon, it doesn't matter to me what you are, you should know that. And even though I give Sarah shit from Miss Gendering Brandon, she was there for him.

She encouraged Brandon to think about sexual reassignment surgery, but it's just not that simple. It's expensive, it's a huge life-altering decision, Brandon is nervous, he's young, I mean it's normal for anyone to second-guess themselves. What if I change by mine later? What if it, what if something goes wrong? I mean I completely understand his hesitation, but because of this, a lot of people, the public, the press at the time, speculated that Brandon wasn't even transgender because they're like, if you're transgender, you should a thousand percent automatically want to have a life-changing surgery without even thinking about it for point two seconds. It's a literal surgery, it's an operation. Every surgery is scary, not to mention costly. The fact that Brandon didn't get the surgery

and his late teens to early twenties does not mean anything. So Sarah is supporting Brandon, but she's still like, but you know, you gotta do the right thing. You gotta tell Heather. I know it's hard, but you have to tell her the truth and see if she still likes you. Brandon's like, well, I can't do it, can you? So Sarah did it.

Sarah took Heather to Joanne's house. So and Joanne sat Heather down showing pictures of Brandon from his childhood and Heather said, she showed me the birth certificate, everything. She showed me pictures of the family vacations with Brandon and Tammy and Brandon had long hair and was dressed in little girls clothes. This one picture I saw, it had something to do with the Catholic schools, but he was in this little white lace dress with a bow and his hair.

And I was just aggravated because I felt like I was betrayed. I was freaking out. And Sarah's trying to be felt like I was betrayed. I was freaking out. And Sarah's trying to be there for me, but just I'm freaking out. So after this, Sarah drives the distraught Heather back home where Brandon is nervously waiting for her. Listen, I don't know why they thought this was a good idea. Just bringing all of this information on someone and not letting them have time to soak it in.

They just kind of bombard her. I'm sure everyone had the best intentions, but it was bad. Heather was so upset that she called the police to get him thrown out of the house. And later that same day, Brandon was so depressed he swallowed an entire bottle of antibiotics in an attempt to take his own life. Now thankfully, it's very difficult and very rare to overdose on antibiotics. Usually the worst symptoms that you'll get is diarrhea, stomach pains, and a lot of maybe semi-permanent gastrointestinal problems. But um, it was just, oh, and also antibiotic resistance. But it was a really rough day.

Brandon suicide attempt messed up Heather as well, and everyone around Brandon. Heather was just confused. She's like, I don't get it. I don't get what this means for my own sexual identity. Like, I'm 14. I feel betrayed. I feel lied to. But also, like, does that mean I'm a lesbian now? Like, that's what she thought. There was no one in the community that could just sit her down and have a productive conversation about it. Meanwhile, Brandon's in the hospital on suicide watch. And when they asked, why did you try to take your own life? He's like, well, I'm upset that I hurt Heather. And I just want to get rid of the guilt. Now, the doctors, they sit there with all this information

and they clearly see a scared, confused broken man in front of them, and all the doctors go to Brandon's mom and go, and I quote, she is becoming a pathological liar and losing her identity. This is how the doctors are talking about Brandon, misgendering him, identifying him as a female patient. And at the same time, they're telling Brandon, well, we're gonna call you she because you're a she,

but if you want sexual reassignment surgery, then you're a dude. That's not how it works. So Brandon is eventually discharged and he's confused because the doctors were urging him to get surgery. They're like, if you wanna be treated like a man, you gotta have surgery. It's like, what?

So he tries to talk to his mom about it. And he's like, this, I mean, I heard about SRS, it's the operation, and, you know, and this part is kept verbatim, but Joanne said, you know, she sat me down and she said that she felt more like a man inside than a woman. And I didn't know what to say. You have to realize how devastated I was.

I raised this child for 18 years and never had a clue. There was anything different going on in her life. Now, Joanna later admits that she was ignorant. She said that she didn't know anything about being transgender other than what she had heard on TV, which was typically limited and controversial and salacious information. So to Joanne, she just felt blindsided.

She felt like she was the victim in all of this. You know how moms are? They're like, oh, so I can't do anything right. And you're like, that's not what I said, mother. And I said, I just have this one very specific trauma because you keep doing this. Listen, it's clear that Joanne loved Brandon a lot. I think if this were now in Joanne,

had all the resources and guidance and a community to refer to, maybe she would have been an accepting mother, but it just, it wasn't good. There weren't even options for Brandon and Joanne to get family therapy about this particular thing. There was no option to create a safe space for Brandon to like tell his mom how he felt and there would be a professional being like Joanne. So this is what, you know, he's trying to say to you. They did go to one therapy session where Brandon did tell Joanne that he was sexually

molested by a male relative. And I will say that Joanne did try to be a good mom. She was like, immediately, let's go to the police. And he's like, no, I'm over it. I want to move on. I'm just letting you know. She's like, what? She felt like she had failed as a mother to protect her own children.

So it sounds like they have a moment of acceptance and love, right? While later, Joanne starts blaming the sexual abuse for Brandon's quote, gender identity crisis. So it's like one step forward, 13 steps back. Brandon did reveal a few more things during therapy. He said that he felt stigmatized, judged, and bombarded with random opinions on a daily basis. He also said that he had been sexually assaulted a year and a half ago. We don't know, by whom.

After being discharged, things, I guess, go back to normal for Brandon, like nothing was really resolved or clarified. Essentially, I don't think anyone helped him. So he left feeling the same way that he went in, if not worse. He just went back to his old ways. He started dating 15-year-old Rihanna Allen. He's almost 20 at this point. So yeah, another inappropriate relationship. And unfortunately, he repeats the same pattern. He's charismatic, amazing.

He's good-looking, dressed better than other guys, attentive, affectionate. He would look good girl in the eyes. And if she's like, oh, what's wrong? Why are you staring at me? He would respond. Nothing. Just mind your beauty.

He even worked hard to win over his girlfriend's parents. I mean, which I guess they didn't mind that he was 19 dating a 15 year old, which is weird, but he would show up at the house with pizza and roses, and he would spend the night and wake up early to steam clean the carpets. He would wash the dishes, scrub the bathroom. He was more or less the perfect boyfriend. If you completely ignore the fact that the relationship was illegal, and also the fact that he kept a secret and convinced Rihanna that he was biologically

a male. So he stuck in this cycle, he's dating Rihanna, then dates a new girl named Gina, and all of these relationships kind of end because the girls find out about Brandon's biological organs, I guess, really. I don't know how to put it, because Joanne would keep harassing them. Like, I don't know what kind of mom that is. I don't know how to describe that. So he starts dating a new girl named Gina

and got her name tattooed on his arm and told her how badly he wanted to buy her expensive jewelry and how he was gonna propose to her ASAP. It was not picture perfect for Gina. The life that Brandon painted in his mind for her was just not the life that he was giving her. In fact, she was spending all of her money bailing him out of jail for forging checks and theft.

And that's when Gina found out Brandon's birthday. Gina was actually the first girlfriend that did not mind. She was really nice. I mean, I guess normal, but nice. She considered him a man and had fallen in love with him as a man, so he's a man. Gina was pissed that Brandon seemed nervous about her finding out because she couldn't believe that his other ex-girlfriends were mad at him for something like this, that they had given him shit for it. Gina wondered,

I mean, what does it really matter what a person is like? He's a man to me, and I've never been happier in my life. So I told him to get the operation if that's what he wanted to do, and I would stay with him. Okay, this where it gets tricky. So it didn't matter to Gina that he was transgender, but it did matter what sex organs he had. So Gina had her own sexual preference towards men. So yes, she was attracted to male sex organs

and she wanted him to get reassignment surgery which he already told her he was planning on doing. So they're continuing on with this relationship with the stipulation that he's going to get male sex organs, but he just didn't have the money. So he kept pushing it off more and more, but I don't think it was just the money. I think Brandon was nervous, right? So he'd say, oh yeah, it's scheduled for June, and then June would come and pass. Oh, he got pushed to July.

He would always have an excuse for it. So finally, he fasted up to Gina and was like, I just don't know if that's what I'm going to do. I just don't know. It's like a life altering procedure, you know? And Gina was pissed. She said she was confused. He had talked about it all the time

as if he was going to do it, as if he was excited for it. It was already scheduled. She was just encouraging him. And then he went off on her. He's like, all you care about is what society thinks. You think I have to fit society's definition of a man by having male sex organs instead of just accepting me as the man that I am.

And Gina's confused and is like, what are you talking about? I mean, if you're not gonna do it, then this has to end. Like, I can't deal with this. That was it. They never resolved this problem and then Brandon proposed. Yeah, I know, you're confused. I'm confused too.

Brandon proposed to Gina right after this heated conversation. He booked this lavish hotel, invited 30 of their closest friends. He rented a talk, he had beer and ice and pizzas delivered, and then he popped the question. Gina said yes and she said, I mean I felt pressured by the grand gesture. I really wasn't sure I wanted to marry Brandon. He wasn't taking any steps towards getting the surgery and he was getting into legal trouble non-stop and stealing. Like he would get a job and then steal from his employers and then it was just a lot. I mean in one year he was charged with 18 crimes, mainly forgery and failure to appear in court.

And I had to bail him out and I was getting sick of it. She was sick of Brandon lying constantly. He would tell her passionately. I didn't forge my grandma's signature. The police just have it out for me. In August of that year, Gina called off the engagement. But Brandon prepared another grand gesture. He bought a big diamond ring in a black velvet box and proposed again.

And Gina was so confused, she's like, what are you even talking about? We're not getting married, Brandon. And he responded, I always told you I would come through with a ring. Now you have to marry me. Gina was conflicted, but the next month, Brandon was sent to jail again. And Gina found out that Brandon had stolen her wallet and her money to buy her that diamond ring that he proposed with. And a lot of the gifts that he had gotten, Gina, we're from Gina's money and she had no idea until now.

So she was done, okay, but Brandon kept trying. He kept writing her letters, but he had played the sympathy card too many times and he could feel it, Gina was not coming back. So he moved on to the next. He actually went back to his ex, Rihanna. And at the same time, he started dating a new girl, Daphne, I know it's a lot of names, but they come important. Which the whole situation was like a love triangle waiting to happen. Daphne wanted to claim her stake on Brandon. So she went

around and she thinks Brandon is biologically male. So she's going around telling everyone that she's pregnant with Brandon's baby, even though they never had sex. Meanwhile, Rihanna's getting jealous and she's smarting and eventually she approaches Daphne and accuses her of lying because Rihanna knows, right, that they can't get pregnant right now. And then she also accused her of being a lesbian, question mark, you know. Rihanna went up in front of all their friends and said, Daphne, you're just a fucking lesbian, so why don't you stop playing these little games because we all know it? And Daphne was like, really?

That's right then, I stick my nose in fucking crutches, how nice of you to let me know it. And Daphne was like, really? That's right then. I stick my nose in fucking crutches. How nice of you to let me know that. And then another X. Tell me why another X of Brandon was there, but Heather was there, and she's ready to throw some punches too. She's like, you're just a big smartass, Daphne, and I should kick your ass right here right now

for being such a little liar. Oh yeah? How dare you guys come after me when you haven't even come out of the closet yourselves? A whole fight ensued, a knife was pulled, and Daphne was stabbed with a superficial cut. So this resulted in all this drama, resulted in Daphne and Brandon fleeing to a nearby small town and decided to spend some time there with Daphne's family. This is the start of the end. So Brandon was really happy at first. Nobody knew him in this town. They had no idea that he had a

criminal record for stealing. They had no idea that he was bullied for dressing like a man when everyone decided that he was not a man. It felt like a clean slate. And so with that, Brandon's like, why stay with Daphne when I can date Daphne's brother's girlfriend? So yeah, he starts dating Lisa Lambert. Lisa is very pertinent to the story, so just remember her. Lisa was 24, a single mom. She was a nursing assistant, raising an eight-month-old baby Tanner. She lived in this old farmhouse in town, and her life just wasn't easy. It was really an overwhelming situation for Lisa, and I guess Daphne's brother was not

a great partner. But Brandon was. Brandon was attractive, charming, complimenting Lisa nonstop about her parenting, how she was a great mom, how she can do this, her son is lucky to have her. He helped around the house, he helped with baby Tanner, he did everything. Lisa ate up every single word.

And she fell in love with him in a week. But Brandon was also dating another girl named Lana. And she's super important. So both with Lisa and Lana, Brandon is presenting himself as a man with male sex organs, and he's trying to keep all of that going, till he finally gets arrested for stealing and forging bad checks. And because of his past criminal record, he needed to post bail in order to get out, and the person that would post his bail was Tom Nisen, the weird one, the weird kid.

Remember in the beginning? The weird baby. Yeah, the weird baby. They're not related? Oh no. So Tom was fresh out of jail for an assault charge. And Lana is underage. And so Lana goes up to Tom.

They know each other. Tom actually has a crush on Lana. And she's goes up to Tom. They know each other. Tom actually has a crush on Lana. And she's like, Tom, I'm not 18 yet. So I can't post my boyfriend's bail. Can you do it for me? I'll give you the money. Just do it under your name, because you're 22. He thought it was a favor for a favor.

So he thought he would post a bail and then he would get to have a fun night with Lana. Yeah, like no, Tom had a wife that was eight months pregnant at this point, so there's that. He had no idea that this simple favor would end up him being charged for murder in just two short weeks. So Tom bail's Brandon out and Lana is still in love with Brandon, regardless of what he

might have kept from her, and the two of them, they go arm in arm to a local Christmas party. Tom was there with his good friend, John Lauder is also important so Tom and John they're basically duplicates of each other so like Tom and Tom 2.0 they're both 22 they love to drink they love to party their troublemakers they're really horrible people but they get along really well the two of them they were drunk literally every second of every day a lot of their friends said I actually don't know what their personality is like when they're sober and both of them had a fat crush on Lana Tisdale. So there is this potential jealousy motive in their actions.

So at the Christmas party, they see Brandon and Lana all over each other. I mean, they're showing a lot of PDA. And nothing insane, but they were just drunk, belligerent, and jealous, and they found out that Brandon had female reproductive organs organs and that really pissed them off. And so they were to shout, your secrets out now. That's right, we know your name and they would dead name him. And John and Tom would actually go up to Brandon during the party and tell him that they were horny,

implying that they wanted to have sex with him, implying that he was a girl. Now the rest of the party gets a little strange because Tom and John would actually go on to blame each other, but it's safe to assume that they were both involved in all of it. They both dragged Brandon into the bathroom and physically assault him.

They held him down while punching, kicking, and knocking him to the ground. Then they ripped off his pants to see what kind of reproductive organs he had. And when their beliefs were confirmed, they dragged Brandon into the car, and this is around 2.30 a.m. Either nobody was able to stop them from leaving, or they didn't try. But the only ones in the car were Tom and John and Brandon.

They drove to a secluded meat-packing plant, and there, Brandon was sexually assaulted by both of them. They drove back to Tom's place, and the duo thought they were being smart. They were going to force Brandon to shower, thinking that that would get rid of all the DNA evidence. But instead of showing, Brandon jumped out the bathroom window, ran back to Lana's place, and Lana said she was shocked. Brandon was bloody, torn, and covered in bruises. So she's like, you have to go to the police, you have to report the assault. Like, this is not okay.

She urged him to get justice, and although she had the best intentions, and I can't say that I would have suggested otherwise, that sounds exactly like what I would say. But reporting the assault led to Branden's murder. And two other people would wind up dead with him. Tom and John had promised to kill Brandon if he talked, and it seems like they were gonna keep their promise.

Brandon called 911. He was rushed to the hospital where he had a rape kit done, and the rape kit was quote, accidentally misplaced, by one of the scummiest law enforcement personnel that I have ever read about, Sheriff Charles Lau. Now, I'm gonna leave in, and Lau is LA UX. I'm gonna leave in most of the interview

because from start to finish it's disgusting, it's trash. After Brandon explained what happened at the party and then the assault behind the meat packing factory, the sheriff felt like it wasn't good enough. He wanted more details. He said, look, let's put it real bluntly. What they did to you, we're here to investigate this, and the only way that we can investigate is if you tell us exactly what happened.

Yeah, he penetrated me without my permission. He penetrated you? Which one penetrated you first? Tom Nieson. Tom Nieson, did he penetrate you in the front of the back? In the back at first. In the back at first, which um... Which one of the guys jerks your pants down to find out if you're a boy or a girl? John?

Okay, so he did that before all the stuff took place, you know, before all the rape. I thought you said John was holding the door and Tom was one beating you. He did. And then uh, John undid your pants, right? And you pulled your pants down how far? Passed my knees. And what did you have in your underpants? I don't know if you're talking about earlier

when I had a sock, but when he pulled down my pants, I didn't have anything. You didn't have a sock. Do you run around once in a while with a sock in your pants to look like a boy? Yeah. How come you forgot to tell us about that? Well, I didn't see it as important.

Well, it's important when we're doing an investigation, and we asked you to start at the beginning, and you skipped half of it. Now, we don't know for in the middle of daylights and dark, we don't know what's up or down. All right, so you pulled your pants down, and saw that you were a girl. What did he do? Did he fondle you? No. He didn't fondle you?

In any way? Doesn't that kind of amaze you? After you pulled your pants down and wanted to take you to bed and you told him no and that you was a boy, doesn't that kind of a get your attention somehow that he wouldn't put his pants in your pants and play with you a little bit? Okay, this... What the fuck? This guy is questioning his story because he wasn't raped earlier.

Like, this is giving me the whole... John Jamalski situation of like, How are you kidnapped if you're still alive? You should have been murdered. Like, what do you mean the rapist didn't rape you sooner? It's almost like he's implying that any time a guy pulls down a girl's pants, he's got a rape. It's like, the rape comes out.

He continues, Well, it doesn't make any difference right? Now you were all half-ass drunk and knowing these guys it wouldn't make any difference to John what he did in front of everybody else, he would think it was funny huh? I mean I just can't believe that he pulled your pants down and you are a female and then he didn't stick his hand and you are his finger and you. Well he didn't. Can't believe he didn't. Who hand and you are his finger in you. Well he didn't. Can't believe he didn't. Who pulled your pants back up? I did.

Then the interrogation started to lead where Brandon was assaulted in the secluded area behind the plant in the car and the sheriff asked him, so how were you positioned in the back? I was on my back in the back seat. You were on your back. Where did they try first? My vagina. They tried sinking it in your vagina. And you say you never had sex before, right?

Is that correct? Right. And which one was doing it first? Tom. Tom. And Tom couldn't get it in you. He said he couldn't get it in, but all I know is that it hurt.

So I couldn't tell the difference. Whatever he was doing, it hurt. How long did you have your legs positioned when he was trying to do that? He had them positioned on each side and he was positioned in between my legs. So you had your legs feed up around his back or did you just have them off to the side or what? And one foot on the floor and the other one on the seat. Okay, so then

after you get in and stick it in your vagina, he's stuck it in your butt or in your butt ox, is that right? Yes, sir. How long did he do that? Long enough, I didn't time it. I mean, did he, did it seem like a lifetime or what? It seemed like it took forever, yes. All right, did it feel like he's stuck it in very far or not? I don't know how far it just hurt. So Brandon described how Tom and John swapped places and now John is assaulting Brandon in the back. And he said, well, let's back up for a second. First of all, you didn't say anything about him getting it out.

Did he already have a heart on when he got back there or what? I don't know. I didn't look. You didn't look? Did he take a little time working it up? Like, did you work it for him? No, I didn't know. I didn't look. You didn't look. Did he take a little time working it up? Like, did you work it for him? No, I didn't. Did he, when you, when you got in the back seat, you were already ready, spreading out for him, ready, waiting on him, right? The sheriff continues and Brandon interrupts. No, I was sitting up when he got back. Did he play with your breasts or something?

No. Well, was he fingering you? You said he couldn't get it in. He said I was tight. And you never had sex before. No. Dead silence. Why do you run around with girls instead of guys? Being that you are a girl yourself.

Why do you make girls think that you're a guy? I have no idea. You have no idea that you go around kiss non-girls. Only kiss the ones that know about me, the ones, the girls that don't know about you. Think that you're a guy. Do you kiss them? I don't know what this has to do with what happened last night because I'm trying to get some answers here. So I know exactly what's going on. Now, do you want to answer the question for me or not? I don't see why I have to.

With this, Sheriff Loud kept pushing, and the last few minutes of the tape were accidentally deleted, just like how Brandon's rape kit was accidentally misplaced. Listen, the whole interview is disgustingly violent and professional. The kinds of questions the way he formulated them, his remarks, it makes me sick to my stomach. But Brandon was better than me, in the sense that he put his faith in the justice system. So two days later, Tom and John were questioned by the police and both of them played dumb. They refused to give a DNA sample and they refused to polygraph and just walked out. Even though the police had found Tom sock near the meat packing plant along with two used condoms. So why did the police let them go? The sheriff said, why just don't want to jump the gun, you know?

So while they were busy misplacing everything, Tom and John stole the gun and went looking for Brandon. I guess they thought if he stopped talking, they would drop the assault charges, and I don't know what their plan was because they didn't even try to get rid of the murder evidence. So maybe they just thought a murder charge is better than an assault charge, or maybe they thought it would be an unsolved murder. So they got drunk, drove to Lana's, and pressured her into telling them where Brandon was. He was at Lisa's farmhouse. Around 1am, they stormed the place and none of them had a chance. The two

kick open the door and Lisa and Brandon woke up. They didn't have time to call 911. Brandon was hiding under the bed and Lisa had her phone snatched from her. They kept screaming. Where's Brandon? Where's Brandon? Before Lisa could say anything, they reached down. They saw movement under the mattress and they yanked Brandon out through him on Lisa's water bed. So Brandon was on the water bed.

Lisa is cornered in the side of the room, terrified. Her eight-month-old baby is in the crib on the other side of the room, too young to know what's going on, but old enough to know that something is very wrong. Tom walks over to the crib, tries to put a pacifier in the baby's mouth, but Lisa's terrified. She's like, Tom, please don't hurt my baby, please! But before Tom or Lisa could react, a shot fires, and then another.

Lisa watched Brandon's bodies slump across the bed. She's screaming, please Tom, why are you doing this? Give me my baby! They actually do give her her baby, and an attempt to get the baby to quiet down and at this point Brandon was twitching on the bed so one of the guys stabbed him. They also stabbed the water bed so it was like a scene out of a horror movie that was water and diluted blood flowing and flooding the entire room. It was horrific. Lisa was about to scream but another shot rang out and she looked down. Her baby had been missed, so her baby is alive and thankfully, but she had been shot in the stomach. She pleads for her baby's life and they rip baby Tanner from her arms and drop him back in the crib and

they ask, is anyone else here? There was. 19-year-old Philip Diving. He was the boyfriend of one of Lisa's friends and he had gotten into a fight with Lisa's best friends when he was spending the night. It was literally pure coincidence. He wasn't even that close with Lisa. He barely knew Brandon. Tom and John were serious about not leaving any witnesses, so they went to the guest room where Phil was shaking in fear. He had heard the commotion he was terrified and they killed him for it. And then Lisa was shot, and just for good measure, the two men fired two more shots into Brandon and Lisa and left.

They went the house for a total of five minutes. On their way back home, they gathered the murder weapon, the gun, the knife, their gloves, and threw them into the river, which wasn't smart for a variety of reasons, mainly because the river was frozen. So they threw it into the river and it just stayed on top of the ice waiting for someone to find it. It was freaking away. Essentially preserving the evidence. Yeah. So the next morning around 10am Lisa's mom shows up to help Lisa with the baby.

She finds Phil's body first. Then she listens to the sound of the cries and finds her daughter dead, along with Brandon. And I can't even think about that moment. But instead of freaking out, she remained calm, called the police, walked over, picked up baby Tanner from the crib, walked to the fridge, got a bottle, and fed him, waiting for the cops. And guess who was the first one at the scene? Sheriff Love. Yeah.

Oh yeah, he was the one to ID their bodies, and he still misgendered Brandon. So it was his job to find Brandon's killers, which is very ironic considering that he could've been the one to prevent these senseless murders. And let's be honest, it's pretty damn clear who the killers were. So the police find John and Tom, they're both arrested. They both immediately blame each other for everything, but they weren't very bright. Tom blamed John for everything. But then in prison, Tom actually got very cozy with the Playboy magazine journalist and talked about how he killed everyone. Playboy magazine journalist.

Yeah, a journalist was like, let me get the inside scoop and he was like, you work for Playboy? Oh my God, send me a year subscription. I killed him. Pretty much. So this led to Tom being cornered and he agreed to a plea deal.

He would testify against John in exchange for three consecutive licenses, which he thought was better than a death sentence. He would testify against John in exchange for three consecutive life sentences, which he thought was better than a death sentence. During the trial, Tom even admitted that they had originally planned the murder to cut off Brandon's head in hands. John testified against his lawyer's wishes and basically sat there complaining

about how he was sitting in prison. He was found guilty of three counts of first-degree murder and was given the death penalty but never executed. John has been spending every waking moment since being sentenced to try and appeal his sentence. His latest appeal was last year and it got rejected. So stay mad, John, stay mad. Nobody gives a fuck. As for Tom, he started telling everyone in prison that he was the one that killed him all. I guess maybe he felt like I'm already in here for life, and men as well get like street credit, I guess.

The rest of the aftermath of this case gets so messy. Brandon was grossly misgendered over and over again, even an SNL had a skit, and they joked and I quote, and finally in fall city, Nebraska, John Latter was sentenced to death for attempting to kill three people in what prosecutors call a plot to silence a cross-dressing female who had accused him of rape. Now, this might strike some viewers as harsh, but I believe everyone involved in this story should die.

What? Yeah. Basically saying that Brandon deserved to die for being transgender. Yeah, and I don't even know what that meant for Lisa and Philip. SNL later apologized, but I think that just speaks volumes on how

nobody was taking Brandon's death seriously. The worst part is even Brandon's own family was perpetuating the misgendering. They even misgendered him in his own grivestone. It read his birth name, and then it read, daughter, sister, and friend. After Brandon's death,

Joanne filed a wrongful death suit against Richardson County and Sheriff's Law, and she got about $100,000, which honestly, no amount of money can mend the loss of a child. And then in 1999, a groundbreaking movie came out called Boys Don't Cry. It was about Brandon's murder. And this is actually one of the first movies ever on a large scale to document the difficulties of being transgender. Hillary, the actress who portrayed Brandon one in Oscar for her performance and she referred to Brandon as he, him in the acceptance speech when she won the Oscar

and Joanne was really upset about it. She publicly spoke up against the movie in the actress, which to listen. I really want to be sympathetic towards Joanne. She clearly loved her child a lot. She lived a hard life. She lived in poverty. She was uneducated. She lived in a bigoted area. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt. She has shown some growth in the sense that she said, you know, at least I'm glad the movie gave a platform to voice, you know, the struggles. But at the same time she keeps mischreparing her son. Lana sued the company, um, movie, production company for how they portrayed her in the movie, which was distasteful. So they showed Lana as a stereotypical brain-dead

country girl. She won the lawsuit and was awarded an undisclosed amount of money. So, just overall, this was such a heavy case to research. I mean, the layers, the complexity, the nuance of the human experience, they're just all intertwined in such a hateful to research. I mean, the layers, the complexity, the nuance of the human experience, they're just all intertwined in such a hateful, bigoted, disgusting crime. I guess it's a case that we would all do well to remember, to remember that there's communities of people who are just automatically in greater danger

for something that they can't control. For something as pure and as innocent as wanting to express themselves and just be authentic to themselves. I mean, it's crazy to think that there's people out there willing to kill them for it. That is definitely not a world that we should want our kids to live in, so. Food for thought.

That's it for this week's mini-sode. Please stay safe out there, and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye! out there and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye!