Rotten Mango - #230: The Resort Town Filled With Secret Swingers, “Hot” Firefighters, and Murder - What Could Go Wrong?

Episode Date: January 18, 2023

There’s never a great time to find out that your husband has nudes of other women on his phone. But this was probably the worst time. There were 30 of Sabrina’s closest friends gathered in her home when she found out about the pictures. The two men stood in front of her asking if she had any knowledge of her husband having an affair. Sabrina said it didn’t make any sense. There’s no way he would cheat on her. They were in love. It wasn’t a good week for Sabrina. First, she found out her husband was murdered. Then, she found out that he had nudes of other women on his phone. Later, she would find out that one of those pictures included her best friend. What’s next? Jail? Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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in all states or situations, prices vary based on how you buy. Betta being betta-boo. Welcome to this week's main episode of Rotten Mango. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. Silver Lake feels like the premise of one of those creepy thriller shows. You know those domestic thrillers where nothing is what it seems, the aesthetic of big little lies, desperate housewives. Silver Lakes is considered a resort community. That sounds familiar, where is it? California? It's in California, yeah. But there's a few

things that I think make the hairs on my arm stand up a bit about it. So the first being is that Silver Lakes is basically built around these two man-made lakes and man-made Peninsula's that stretch into these man-made lakes and they're just rows and rows of houses They have waterfront access to these man-made lakes. That sounds nice, right? I have a thing against man-made lakes though after Lake linear But the minute that you go on to Google Maps and you zoom out of silver lakes, it is like someone put two man-made lakes in a residential neighborhood in the middle of fricking nowhere. It's not in like town, it's just in the middle of the desert. Most residents have to drive around 30 miles one way to go to their workplaces or more,

and there's even like a semi-colty slogan or motto for the neighborhood. It's called Silver Lakes. The happiest place on the high desert. Vacation, where you live. So it's a big, big lake. Yeah. 30 miles, you mean like they have to drive around and it's like 30 miles? No, no. There is just in the middle of nowhere. Oh, God. They have to drive 30 miles out of their neighborhood to get to the closest big town for work. Yeah, I don't know. Lake Lanier has really turned me off to the idea of man-made lakes.

But everyone here was living the resorts suburban life. The town could have been marketed for somewhat young couples, married, move in, start your young families. So many of the residents are beautiful, blond, happy. It's like kind of your all-American neighborhood. The house in question today, though, is on Strawberry Lane. I mean, stop it. It's so perfect.

It feels sinister. You stop it right now. Strawberry Lane. It's a ranch-style house in the perfect town of Silver Lakes. It's inside this house that everything starts to fall apart, a little crack on this sidewalk. That soon ripples and travels further and further, soon the entire community of Silver Lakes was about to feel ripped apart by what was about to come to light. I don't think that there is ever a good time to find out that your husband has new

to other women on his phone. But this was probably the worst time. Sabrina lived in that strawberry lane home with her husband and two children. There were about 30 people gathered in her home that night. Friends, relatives, children, and detectives showed up with questions about her husband. They asked her the normal questions, the ones that felt like protocol. How's your relationship? What about your marriage? Oh, we had a great marriage. Any problems with anything, any issues with infidelity or anything like that from either party? No, I mean, we kind of liked a party. Nothing that would harm the kids or anything like that, but we would like to go to the river and drink.

Robert didn't drink a whole lot. He would just get a little bussy. He always stayed in control and we were gonna straighten out now. Mind you, we worked. I kept the house, I kept the children but I started feeling the partying a little bit more every time that I woke up, I just needed to chill out a little bit, you know I was tired but we keep going, we're super social, interesting. You guys ever had any issues with infidelity though? Or, no, never, no. At any point did you think that maybe Robert had a girlfriend? No.

Woman. Have you ever looked at Robert's phone, gone through his messages or his pictures? I've gone through his pictures, so I mean, I don't think he's having an affair. What one was the last time you looked at the pictures on his phone within six months? I think so. The reason we ask is because there are several pictures of naked women on the phone. We're not sure if these are personal photos or from the internet. We're trying to figure that out. What? Who are these girls? We haven't looked at them in detail yet.

Oh, you guys, I just... I don't know what to think. Like this is disgusting. I could have looked at his phone any time. We't jealous you know we just live life We were super close, but I just can't imagine anything like that that that would be devastating to me It would be devastating for everyone involved because this case would involve murder open relationships nude pictures a group of secret swingers in this perfect little resort town and an affair with one of the firemen It was just bizarre and this conversation is to feel a lot more sinister when you realize that her husband is dead. And that is why the detectives went through his phone and found newts. As always, full show notes are available at RottenMangoPodcast.com, but there is an amazing

book on this case called Better Off Dead. It's written by Michael Flemen, and I highly recommend you give this book a read because it is just so intensely, meticulous level of detail that it goes into every single wire tapped conversation that is brought up in this case. I mean, it feels almost weird reading this book because you get to read the inner conversations of Sabrina and Jonathan while they're on the phone and they have no idea that everybody else is listening.

So please it's just to get into these people's minds with such a trip for me. How does wiretapping work? Yeah, they just tap your phone. They get a warrant from a judge and they tap your phone for 10 days. So they don't need to take my phone to tap it? No, they just tap into any incoming and outgoing call from your phone. Apparently wiretapping is like a huge headache side note. Yeah, apparently it's like the worst thing

about police business. They say that cops who work on the wiretaps, they never want to work it again. Oh, because you have to listen all the time. You have to listen for every phone call. Like a light comes on in a wiretapping room. You have to listen and you have to decide if it's actually worthy of the time. You have to listen for every phone call, like a light comes on in a wire tap room. You have to listen and you have to decide if it's actually worthy of the investigation.

If it's a personal phone call that has nothing to do with the investigation, you cannot listen. But let's say it's a phone call that has something to do with the investigation. You think it's just listening? No, it's like paperwork after paperwork after paperwork. And every 10 days you have to renew the warrant from the judge. Yeah and some people just talk a lot.

Yeah, oh these people talk a lot. So with that being said, but Sheba was a beautiful woman from the Bible. You're like what Stephanie? Let's go back to biblical times. But Sheba was a married woman who was married to the strong soldier that was off in battle. His name was Yoraya. Anyway, she's alone one day. She's bathing on her roof.

You're like, that's scandalous. It was pretty normal back then, don't judge her. And a man walks by. And he can't help but notice that is a beautiful woman on that roof. Her beauty, I mean, he practically ran into a wall. He demanded the woman be brought to him. You're like, excuse me? Well, he could do into a wall. He demanded the woman be brought to him. You're like, excuse me?

Well, he could do that because he was King David. King David knew that this woman, Basheba, was married to Uriah, who is in the army right now, fat fighting battles. His servants had filled him in on everything. But he still summoned Basheba, the married woman to his palace, and they slept together. King David knew she was married.

I don't know, she really had a choice. And then she came to him and disperial later, because she's like, well, guess what, King David, I am now pregnant with your child. So they panic. King David summons Eureia back from the battle, and the whole plan was to let Eureia come back home to his wife, and they thought if Eureia slept with Besheba, he would forever think that that child was his. When she gave birth, you know, it makes sense, but he refused to sleep with her.

He said, Beshiba, I love you so much, but I can't sleep with you when my men are still on the battlefield in harm's way. It's not right. I can't be in the throes of pleasure while my men are dying. He's a very good person, a very stark contrast to King David. So since Plan A failed, David decided to come up with a much more sinister plan. King David was selfishly going to order her husband to the front lines of the war, and Eurya was in battle.

He was killed. King David married the widowed Bashiba, but their first child died as punishment. From God, it's the Bible. Yeah. It said King David repented his sins and they would later give birth to Solomon, the next heir to the throne. But it said that through this story, anybody who holds faith or believes in the Bible

can learn a few things. One, secrets sin will always be found out. Second, God will forgive anyone who repents. Third, sins consequences remain even when sin is forgiven, and well, that's about it. But it's not really, that's not why I'm telling you this story. Okay, I'm not a religious person, right? Park as is turning to something else.

This podcast is getting weird, right? It's not about religion, I'm not even a religious person. There is a reason I'm telling you this story, because there are two people involved in this case who fantasized about themselves being the next King David and Bishipa which I just don't even understand because people die, your child dies, why do you want to be these people? I will never understand but there's constant references that's even used in court because the story is so prominent to this case.

Just wait till you see what happens. So let's talk about the Ted Choppie Pass. God, all these names. Okay. Ted Choppie Pass is not the most picturesque part of California. In fact, it's more reminiscent of the desert than what you would imagine to be sunny glamorous LA or SF. Even though it's only a two hour drive from LA, it feels like a completely different world. Near the past, there's this giant windmill turbine farm. It's like an eerie-ness to the area.

Look, I know that they provide us with energy, but they kind of look creepy. There's also this big spiral track called the Teh Chappi Loop, which side note, there's a ton of live videos on YouTube of people watching the trains go up and down in real time. It's kind of satisfying. It's like this big loop. And all watching the trains go up and down in real time. It's kind of satisfying. It's like this big loop and all these big trains go around. There's a few businesses that are set up nearby where it's just mechanics. They just sit there all day, wait for a train to break down and they hop in their truck, rush to the loop, help them fix the problem.

Now, apparently a lot of trains break down in this loop because it's going uphill and it's like this giant spiral loop almost like a spiral staircase. So a lot of the older trains, they can't hang. So there's a lot of businesses that are just straight up mechanics waiting for trains to break down so they can jump in their cars and go to help, right? That's what Sean did for a living. It wasn't the most exciting work. You sit there all day, 12 hour shifts, just waiting for a phone call to come in.

Sure, you have some paperwork to do, but most of the time you just wait by yourself. It's a one-man shift. Sean is driving past all of this, the windmill turbines, the loop, and he arrives for his overnight shift in a quiet, empty commercial garage. You know those ones where there's multiple garages right next to each other and you rent them out? Well, it's in the middle of nowhere basically, and it's normally quiet. Serene even, it's Sunday. Most of the commercial spaces weren't used overnight, so he kind of expected his car to

be the only one in the entire parking lot for the rest of the night. So if you think too deep into it, it's a little freaky. But Sean is just concerned about letting Robert Lyman off his shift. He had just worked the daytime shift and he was probably itching to get home. So Sean parks his car, walks into the office space, and immediately he felt a crunch beneath his feet. Crunch, crunch. He looks down, it's broken glass.

He looks up and he sees that one of the light fixtures on the ceiling had fallen off or had shattered and broken off. It's not the most unusual, but it almost felt like a bad omen. You know, sheer bad luck for no reason. The type of thing to put you in a kind of bad mood for the beginning of your shift, like, yeah, just doesn't feel good. Sean looks to his right. The small office door is open. That's weirder than the mystery piece of glass. The office door was always closed. Sean walks up to the door, crunch crunch. And when he looked inside his eyes went wide. The entire office had been ransacked. I mean, file drawers were practically overturned paper

with stone dramatically across the room. The laptop that usually sat on top of the office desk, gone. Oh my god. Now, I don't know what Sean was thinking, but he's like, I'm going to do a quick sweep of the office because Robert, what if Robert was injured or hurt? I need to find him. So he quickly runs to each room to clear the place and near the kitchenette that they had used to microwave so many of their meals. The back door is wide open and Robert is laying there.

Oh my God, oh my God, Sean runs up to him, screaming, Rob, Rob, are you okay? What happened? Wake up, buddy. Rob's eyes were open. There was blood everywhere on the cabinets of the kitchenette, on the refrigerator door, everywhere. And he was not responding. Sean tries to reach for his phone, he calls 911.

Please, you need to help me. Hurry, he's not moving, there's so much blood. The operator instruction. Okay, why don't we try CPR? But every time he pressed down on Rob's chest he would start freaking out, please stop, there's more blood oozing out of his mouth, like I don't know what to do! The operator tells him, abort the mission, get out of the building, now. The CPR was not helping, it was making things worse, and maybe the operator realized that whoever the killer was, could still be in the building. Sean ran out, dropped to his knees, and he started sobbing.

He did not stop sobbing until he saw the distinct blue and red lights of the police car shining through. The first words out of Sean's mouth to the police, he's kneeling there on the cement, and he's pointing into the garage, and he just screams, please he has two kids! The detectives Russian and, you know, the first thing that they felt probably was the adrenaline pumping because it doesn't really matter how many years you've been on this job.

You're gonna have a adrenaline pumping at a crime scene. They quickly surveyed the area. They wait for the medic team to assist, but they knew that Robert was gone. The only thing that kept popping into their minds other than that was that this crime scene just felt weird. Okay, the drawers were almost comically overturned like a villain would do in a superhero movie.

Papers were thrown as if someone grabbed a stack and they threw it like when you graduate high school. It doesn't feel like someone was looking for something amongst the piles. It just was bizarre. And make things weirder? Robert wasn't even supposed to be working here. This wasn't even his normal field office. He usually works near his home in Silver Lake, but he was filling in for a friend who was out sick. So it's like a company that has multiple locations.

Robert literally took the shift last minute. It wasn't even arranged a week ahead. It was, you know, a few days ago. Drrove the one and a half hour commute to this location, and then he was murdered on the drop. So now the police are thinking, if we think that this fake robbery was staged, was someone else the intended victim, or was the intended victim Robert, and how would they know that Robert would be here today? If someone really wanted to kill Robert Lyman, that meant that they were close enough to him to know his entire schedule. Obviously, one of the saddest parts of a detective's job

is that revelation, but also putting the body in the body back. It's the start of this high pressure, high sticks, journey for answers and justice, but it's also jarring to know time and time again that humans are just so evil. But what's more heartbreaking is sometimes picking up the victim's phone.

The detective said that when they reached for Robert Lyman's phone, they saw that he had several missed calls and text messages. The last one was, babe, I'm so worried about you. Call me. Liana wants to say goodnight. Liana was Robert's kids, and the text was from Robert's wife, who was now a widow. Sabrina and Robert knew each other most of their lives. Sabrina was 18 years old when she met Robert

and they got married young. They've been married for 14 years, I think together like 17 years. That's almost half her life. She had spent half her life with Robert. Sabrina would actually joke to her friends. I feel like my mom gave birth to me and Robert caught me. They met in Arizona, but they would later move to California for Robert's job, which a lot of

Robert's family said he was like the life of every party. He was the youngest of five children, and if you ask his sister Lydia, she would say, oh God, Robert was spoiled rotten. He was the only boy, the only son, and the youngest. None of us were allowed to pick on him, like ever. But he was a really good kid. We would have these family picnics at the park and Robert would just wander off in the middle of the picnic and we'd be like, where is Robert? And we would look over and he's at other people's picnics,

complete strangers, having a blast. Like this guy was such a social butterfly. He loved meeting new people. But Robert also had it tough. At one point, all the sisters had moved out, and they were his half sisters from his father's first marriage, right? Eventually, Robert was alone with his father,

and he was quite abusive. He was an alcoholic. It just, it was in a pleasant environment. Eventually, his parents would divorce and Robert would stay with his mom. And then one day, he met Sabrina San Millen, an 18-year-old working at a day care center. And the first day that Sabrina was introduced to his sisters, can you imagine the stress of that, meeting your boyfriend's four older sisters like the stress? But they just knew that she was the one. They were certain, the sisters were certain

that Robert was gonna marry Sabrina. First of all, she's beautiful, she's blonde, she's charismatic, I mean, instantly accepted into the family, which again, that's really hard to impress four older sisters, but she did it. Everyone loved her, everybody loved them together. They didn't see each other all that often because the couple moved to California, but when they did,

Sabrina was just over the top. She was outgoing and she was friendly, but more importantly to the sisters, she was head over heels in love with their brother, like what more could you ask for. So the two, they moved to Silverlakes. They start their family, they have two young kids. Sabrina was kind of like an on and off stay at home mom. She loves looking after her kids, being there for them, but she also really loves working. So she told her friends, I can't do it anymore. I can't do it. I'm just going to get a part time job at Costco. I'm so excited. Okay, so there's this gig where you work 20 hours a week while the kids are at school and you were just the food sample girl. Yeah, uh-huh. I'm not even ringing anyone up. I'm not stalking the shelves.

I get to just talk to people, cut the samples, you know, give out free food. She loved it. She was so stoked. She went around telling everyone, hey guys, I'm the sample girl at the Victorville Costco. It was just right up her alley. Because just like Robert Sabrina was so friendly, she was so excited about her job and people loved her. Actually Costco maybe didn't love her because a lot of customers who were either lonely or bored would come in just to talk to her

and walk out without buying a single thing. You know, Sabrina was very happy. Robert initially was very happy with her new job too, because as long as his wife is happy, that's all that matters. But some of Sabrina's friends half-joked. Oh, great. Now she's gonna have an affair.

What? I know, that's what I said. Apparently, another close friend of theirs had gotten a job at this very Costco, the Victorville Costco, and had an affair. There was just something about this Costco. So that particular day started like any other. Robert got up early to go to work.

Hugged his wife goodbye. He has to leave it like five in the morning. It's a long commute. And he said he would call her later. Which he did. He got to work. They spoke on the phone a few times. Around the time you went to go grab a sandwich for lunch.

He always got the tuna melt. Sabrina knew this. She could practically smell it through the phone. And then around 4.30 pm, 5 pm, she called. And this time there was no answer. She's like, okay, that's really weird, but she was going to go to church with the kids. Sabrina is very religious. The whole family is pretty religious. She left him a text in case he was busy at work and she knew that, you know, it should have been a slow day. She waited for her text back. As the day dragged on, she had this itching anxiety creep in. Every half hour that past she felt more and more anxious that Robert wasn't texting

her back, she started to feel worried. Sabrina knew something was wrong by mid-afternoon that day. Robert just wasn't the type to not respond to her text or calls. He was a great husband, a great father, he never kept her waiting long, he never let her worry about him like that. So when he wasn't picking up, she frantically starts calling her friends and family. Sure enough, everyone's like, no, we haven't heard from Robert. What do you mean you haven't heard from him since what time?

They all start coming over to support Sabrina. They're like, you know what, we're just gonna sit here with you. We're gonna keep you in the kids company because the minute that Robert comes in, we're gonna scream at him. We're all gonna say, Robert, do you know how worried we all were? You kept Sabrina up around 8.30 pm, a random car parked in front of Sabrina's house.

Two men from Robert's job jumped out the car, came to the front door, and they told Sabrina that Robert was dead. And she's like, what? I mean, think about it. This is the most shocking, confusing conversation ever. Imagine out of nowhere, two co-workers from your husband's company come over and they tell you that your husband is dead.

What are you talking about? How did he die? What happened? Did a train hit him? Like, what are you talking about? All it's doing is creating more questions and answers. What do you mean he's dead? The railroad workers just kind of shrugged and they're like, we just heard that he had an

injury to his head. The police are currently investigating and they should contact you shortly, we just thought you should know. When a Sabrina's friends and family members came out of the house and they're like, no, we want answers. Don't you dare come up in here and tell her that Robert is dead and then try to drive away. The two railroad brokers were just in their heads. They genuinely had no idea what happened to Robert.

They just knew that he was dead and they thought his family should know. It wasn't until 1am that night, that's a lot of time, that Sabrina and the family started getting some answers. Robert was murdered. Sabrina told the detectives, it just doesn't make sense. Everybody loves Robert. There is not a single person in this whole world that would want to do him harm.

She cried to the detectives, please, can you just, when you have new information, you have to call me, please, because I want to know, I want to, I just don't understand. I don't understand at all. Like my brain is not putting this together. It's not even possible. I just, it's just not possible, please. She sounded distraught, dazed, confused.

She just kept saying, nobody wants to hurt Robert, please. Clearly that wasn't the case. Because Robert had been shot twice, once in the head, once in the heart, at close range, someone had gotten up close in personal and took his life. So far, a lot of interesting leads and silver legs, but I would say the only big piece of evidence they had was CCTV footage of a man on his bike who they thought was the killer. It was caught by two different CCTV cameras nearby and out of all the other cars and vehicles

that passed all the way, they were all cleared by the police except for this one motorcycle. They couldn't track down the license plate. So the police put this all over the news, all over YouTube. They're trying to get leads on who this person might be because they can't track the motorcycle guy down by his plates and they just needed someone to help them. A tip. And then it came in from a man named Jason Bernatine. He and his wife were some of the closest friends to Sabrina and Robert. They would hang out two or three times a week, sometimes more. There were more

parties, more birthdays, more barbecues to attend. Both couples really liked a party. Okay, their idea of a good weekend, which honestly sounds fun, but I could never keep up, is that they would rent this big party bus. Everyone would hire babysitters. They would go house to house, pick up all of their friends who they all call the wolf pack. They would go to the wildest bars in town and just go crazy all night long. Sometimes they would rent boats, go to the Colorado River for the weekend. I mean, they just had a crazy group of friends, but even in that group, the Bernatines and the linements were really really close. They were almost inseparable. They were like the leaders of the Wolfpack,

if you will. The two couples, a lot of it had to do with the fact that Kelly and Sabrina were best friends. So Kelly, Kelly Bernatine, she was really shaken up about what happened Robert. She's trying to be there for her best friend, and she set up this GoFundMe for Sabrina and the kids. She took charge of the funeral arrangements. She picked the music. She made a slide show of all the pictures of Robert from his childhood. Hundreds and hundreds of people showed up to Robert's funeral. Jason and Kelly were doing everything they could to make Sabrina feel loved. They wanted her to know that she's not alone in this, that they were going to be there for her,

just like everybody else. So of course, they're constantly asking her, how you doing? How did you sleep, did you eat anything? When they drove past her house, when they saw a strange pickup truck, parked straight on the driveway. They took mental note of it, and when they drove past her house again, they saw the same pickup truck.

Always there, always late at night, and they were worried for her. They asked her, everything okay? Like, whose car is that? Is someone staying with you? Like, is it family? Oh, it's just an old friend, Dale Smith. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your

Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or paid subscription starting at 1299 per month. Why would you break into these apartments? For money, for drugs, whatever was in them? Aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? No, who's gonna catch us?

What a police! It was the height of the crack era and instead of locking up drug dealers, some New York City cops had become them. I would suit up in my uniform and we're gonna want some drug dealers. And I know how to do it really well. This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal in NYPD history

and the investigation that uncovered it all. Did you consider yourself a rat? 100%. I saved my soul just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set, an Odyssey originals documentary podcast series available now in the Odyssey app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a big guy man, but I love being that dirty mother f***er. Kelly is Sabrina's best friend. Something was nagging at her.

Kelly just felt like Sabrina was lying. She could just feel it. The next time Kelly saw the car parked there, she jotted down the license plate number. And soon that great truck was replaced by a motorcycle. And she grew a little bit more suspicious because remember, a motorcycle in the CCTV footage that the police had from Robert's murder? And if you think Kelly is a weird friend, or if she's a shady best friend, it's because she had reason to be.

She was worried that the great truck belonged to a firefighter. A firefighter that had almost ruined everybody's life prior. Had almost broken up Sabrina and Robert's marriage recently. Sabrina, her best friend, had an affair with a firefighter, and Kelly was worried that something fishy was going on. Okay, let's backtrack. December 2012, Subrina's work in at Costco, given out free samples, socializing, building rapport with customers, Manwaxson.

Ripped firefighter department T-shirt on, he's loading up supplies for the fire station. Instantly, he's asking for a free sample, making conversation with Sabrina, and the report was there. Sabrina's like, oh my god, the fire department? Thank you for your service, but also I have a friend who works at the fire department. My best friend's husband actually, Jason Bernatine. Wow. Yeah. And he's like, wait stop, I know him, I worked with him briefly. My name's Jonathan, by the way, and the two hid it off like they were old friends. The next time Jonathan walked into Costco, he was shocked because the sample girl waved him down and she remembered his name.

He felt a little embarrassed because he actually didn't remember hers, but that's fine. She was friendly enough to tell him again. My name is Sabrina Sabrina Lyman. They even exchanged phone numbers and The rest was history and homicide Apparently, so let's talk about Jonathan hern. He was 21 years old when he started working for the fire department He worked briefly with Jason Bernatine and John had been hired as a limited-term Paramedic working on an ambulance for the fire department Jason remembered being super impressed because to become a paramedic you have to be 21 years old. And John was 21, which means he would have had this all planned out because you need all these prerequisites,

you need all these courses done. So to have your life planned out to become a paramedic right at the age of 21, that's a very future forward-thinking person, especially at that age of 21, that's a very future forward thinking person, especially at that age. He also said that Jonathan was really smart, very well spoken, incredibly polite, proper, even, maybe like a little sheltered kind of his vibe. He never really cursed, kind of kept himself. He's the type where if you probably said a dark humor joke, you would take it a little seriously, and then you'd have to explain, oh, no, it's actually dark, okay, maybe like that.

But I mean at that young age, the way that he was handling himself is still very impressive, better to be like that at 21 than be overly immature working as a paramedic, right? So Jason continued, I was very impressed with how he treated patients. He was a very good paramedic. I told him on several occasions, he was way too smart to be a fireman. He should have been a doctor or a lawyer, but he told me I just really like being a fireman. Jonathan really did. It had been his life plan for a really long time. Jonathan made sure to get good grades all throughout high school. He took college courses while he was in high school. He was just always the studious polite friendly guy. But he wasn't really a lady's man.

It's not that he was unattractive. There was a very strange rumor going around, by the way, that Jonathan was a virgin when he met Sabrina. So they actually met when he was 22, and she's like 32. Wow. Yeah. Okay.

So I don't know if Jonathan was a virgin, I don't know how that rumor came to be. It has not been verified. I think it's a very strange speculation, but just throwing it out there. Jonathan really was not a lady's man growing up though. Or like ever. He just...

It's not that he was naive. Jason was kind of incorrect in his assumption. Jonathan was not this sheltered naive guy who knew nothing about women. He just never really had any long-term serious girlfriends. His sister would say, I mean, yeah, like there were women hanging around, but I guess he just never called them girlfriends or I don't know, it was just never serious. So regardless of how potential love interests perceived him, Jonathan was pretty loved by his own family members. His sister Emily said, Jonathan is like the kindest man that I

know. Like he's this very strong male figure. Honestly, I think it's very easy for a new girl to fall in love with that. So anyway, the two, Jason and John, worked together briefly and they never really bonded. So strange when Sabrina bounced up to Jason out of the blue and was like, Hey, do you know what John from the Fire Department? Sabrina, I know a lot of John's from the Fire Department, all we got are John's. You gotta be a little bit more specific than that. She came back with the last name.

John, Jonathan, Hurst, and from there, Jason thought it was weird that this man that he had barely given a thought to in the past year or two was said in the everywhere. For example, three months after that interaction with Sabrina, the wolf pack. They were hanging out at the bars for March Madness and what do you know? Who's sitting right there at the bar? John Hurst, talking to another firefighter. So Jason's like, John, what a crazy coincidence. I haven't seen you in like a year. How you been? Oh yeah, okay, how are things going?

He starts chatting, oh this is my wife, Kelly. And Sabrina, you met Sabrina, right? Sabrina said that you guys met at Costco? Sabrina practically ran up to John and threw her arms around him in this big bear hug. Which if you didn't know Sabrina, you might think it's a little strange, but she was just really an outgoing person, so nobody thought twice about it. Even with her head pressed up against his cheek, like this is an intimate hug.

Sabrina went around introducing everyone to Jon, there's even a group photo taken that night. On one end of the group photo, Sabrina's husband Robert, and on the other end, Jonathan. Where's Sabrina? Like in the middle. It's a huge group. So everything seemed fine till the next day, Kelly found out that Sabrina had a horrible night.

Why would it happen? Well, Rob and I got home and we argued. Sabrina told Kelly that Robert didn't like how much attention Jonathan was giving her at the bar last night. He had never heard of a Jonathan from the fire department before and she had never mentioned meeting him at work. He just felt suspicious. Like, why would that guy be randomly at the same bar as all of them?

Unless maybe she told him that she was gonna be at this bar or maybe she invited him. He even outright asked Sabrina. Is there something going on between you guys? Kelly was curious too. Well, is there? Now of course not, we're just friends besides I'm 10 years older than him.

Kelly nodded in agreement and she forgot about it. Till her husband came home one day, Jason and he starts complaining about some strange things. Why, what's going on? Remember that John from the department? He keeps texting me. It's so weird. He just texted me, uh, hey Jason, how's it going? I barely know the guy. I mean, we probably worked maybe 10 shifts together. We never hung out. We just ran into each other at the bar. It's weird.

You're like, uh, it's not that weird Jason. You're a little bit overreacting. Well, it gets weirder. John sent him more text messages. You're somebody I really like. I miss you Jason. And then he wanted to know if he could be invited to join the wolf pack when they hang out. So weird. Jason ignored him and just diverted the conversation, but John was really sucking up Tim complimenting him. I mean Jason felt so thrown off by it. It just didn't felt genuine and it just felt out of character for someone like Jonathan. Jason starts joking around with his wife. Look babe, I think this guy likes me or something. I think so because likes me or something. I think so, because this is weird.

We don't do this shit at the department. We're not really a complementing type of group. And just as Jason and Kelly took a mental note of that, around the same time, Sabrina starts acting strangely. Kelly casually asked if John had stopped by the store recently. Costco. It's probably Kelly's way of finding an opening to tell Sabrina about the weird text messages

that he had been sending Jason, but instead of being like, yeah, why? Or, no, why? Sabrina snapped at her and was like, I don't want to talk about it. It was very strange. And then another text came in from Jonathan to Jason. It read, hey, Jason, I need your buddy Rob's phone number. Please call me. This is Sabrina's husband. This is Jason's best friend. Why would you need buddy Rob's phone number. Please call me. This is Sabrina's husband.

This is Jason's best friend. Why would you need her, his phone number? Jason calls Jonathan. Hey, Jonathan, what's up? Why do you need Rob's phone number? So I, and then it dawned on Jason. Do you have something going on with Sabrina? Look, it's not like that.

We're just friends. She's just really important to me. Jason was pissed. Okay, a part of him felt protective of his social circle. He felt protective over Robert. This is his best friend. He screamed at Jonathan over the phone. That's my best friend's wife. You need to leave us all alone. Now, here's the freaking kicker of it all. Jason was with Robert when he got that call or when he made that call. So Robert is standing right there. Oh my God. And he had heard everything. So Jason passes in the phone angrily and is like, dude, I don't know what's going on. But Jonathan

heard us on the line. And he wants to talk to you about something real, real bad. Robert looked like he already knew what it was about. He looked down, he sighed and grabbed the phone and headed outside. Robert didn't even seem angry, he just seemed resigned. Jason didn't want to be nosy, so he just kept peering out the window as much as he could to get a read on Robert's body language, and the whole time he didn't seem angry. He just looked like he was trying to figure out some sort of problem. And finally, he hung up, came in, and Jason is eagerly waiting to be filled in. Come on, what's the tea?

Robert told him, well, okay, so they start seeing each other ever since they met at Costco. Apparently they've developed a bit of an intellectual relationship and it turned into an emotional one. Yeah, right. Yeah. I went through Sabrina's phone and I found a bunch of text messages of them saying I love you to each other. Robert said that he was so mad he smashed Sabrina's phone that night, but they've since

made up and Jonathan was calling to apologize and to promise to stay away from Sabrina. Jason nodded, but he was still kind of suspicious about the whole thing. Yes Robert, are you sure we don't need to do something about this? No don't worry about it, it's handled. And if you can just make sure to not tell anyone? Jason didn't. And for about a year, the Bernatine's heard nothing about it? It's handled. And if you can just make sure to not tell anyone, Jason didn't. And for about a year, the Bernatine's heard nothing about it or from Jonathan Hurn. Until one day in 2014, they ran a car to get a few things.

Jason stayed in the car and Kelly ran into the store and she ran right back out without grabbing half the things they needed. So Jason's like, what the heck? Where's the rest of the stuff? Kelly looked like she had seen a ghost. She's like, forget the eggs. Jason Jason okay? I saw Sabrina talking to Jonathan and she saw me and we made eye contact and she tried to chase after me to explain something so I ran to the cash year and she couldn't follow me because you know she has to stay near her little sample section.

Anyway I paid for the things that I had in my arms and then I ran out of here. So weird. Jason blew up, he called Jonathan and screamed at him. He said, what the fuck? I told you to stay away. That's my best friend, wife. Kelly noticed a lot of startling changes in Sabrina. She just wasn't her normal self. Sabrina straight up asked,

Kelly, are you mad at me, too? Kelly's side and told her, my only concern right now is for Robert since he's the one that's being cheated on. Sabrina blew up on her, just screaming non-stop until she finally stormed off. They didn't talk for a while after that. Eventually things did smooth over, but it just wasn't the same anymore in their friendship. And again, for a while, the couple heard nothing of Jonathan Hurn. I mean, things were kind of normal. Like, the group still hung out. There was just

a bit of iciness now between Sabrina and Kelly. It was just tension. It felt odd. And when Robert was killed, the Bernatine's that were like, we gotta step it up. I know that there were things in the past, but we just need to be there for Sabrina.

We need to be there for her kids. We need to do all of this. They thought some random criminals had tried to rob Robert for looking for for their next fix and they were heartbroken They were deep in their grief and at least for a while they didn't realize all the strange things first of all Sabrina was really off Sabrina was crying when she found the news of robbert Kellyanne Jason were there when she found out she was crying. Yeah, but also it felt like she was in control

If that makes sense it didn't seem like she was falling apart Jason said being a paramedic and a fireman, you see a lot of random deaths. They're like sudden tragedies, which is kind of similar to what happened to Robert. I mean, people lose control. But not Sabrina, she was crying, yeah. But she was answering every phone call.

She was handling it. She was handling her kids. She had put them on the couch. They were wearing their dad's t-shirts. I mean, she was in control. And oddly, she didn't want anyone to know that night that Robert had died. She told Jason and Kelly that she wanted everyone to have one last night of good before everyone found out the next morning.

That is the weirdest thing. Yeah, because if anyone that I love died, I'm not thinking about your night. Exactly. I'm really not thinking about your night. Exactly. I'm really not thinking about your night. I'm sorry. At the time, Jason was way too deep in his own grave to really question Sabrina's odd behavior, but soon there was a big red flag that was so ginormous that he couldn't

even ignore it. He got a voicemail from Jonathan after the murder, like literally right after the murder. It said, Jason, I'd really like to talk to you sometime tonight. I just got back from San Diego and I went into Costco and I talked to Sabrina last night yesterday afternoon and I heard about Robert. I'm just, okay, it was like a few days after the murder. And I'm just, you know, I've just been living so wrong. I just realized that life is short, too short to have enemies.

And you were always someone that I admired. I respected you for your wisdom. And you've always been kind to me. You've always repaid that kindness. And I'm hurting. I'm hurting our friendship, you know? I just, I know I'm asking a lot, but I just can't believe it. I didn't sleep last night.

I feel numb. I feel like God has crushed me and has gotten my attention. And you know what Jason, there's only two people in this world that I feel that I've ever offended and that is you and your wife. And I'm begging you, on my knees right now, that I could perhaps meet with you and your wife and say, sorry for the hurt that I have caused.

I get it, death in the community affects everyone. So he thought that voicemail was just so out of nowhere. Strange. You know, I think that Jonathan thought it was fine because death affects people and he's saying, I realize that life is short and I don't want to have these burned bridges. I don't want to have this bad blood between us. I respect and admire you so much and I just want to be there for you guys during this time. But in reality, Jason was so freaked out.

It was just bizarre. This is just strange. The woman that you're having an affair with, her husband is murdered, and you wanna go to dinner with their best friends? To say sorry? Jonathan even followed it up with the text. Jason, I hope my message doesn't make you angry.

I cannot imagine what you and Kelly are going through right now. God has used this as a wake up call for me though, and I need to make things right. Jason was angry, he texted him back. I got your message, I don't wanna talk right now. Okay Jason, I fully understand, please forgive my timing. This is so overwhelming.

Thank you for getting back to me. Please know that I beg for your forgiveness. And he didn't stop there. He sent more and more text messages, even asking for their home address to send them a handwritten letter for apology? What? Yeah.

That night when he got those messages, Jason was so freaked out. I mean, he had no idea what any of this meant, but he was so freaked out that he wanted the detectives to know. He reported all of this to the police along with the fact that they kept seeing a strange car parked in Sabrina's driveway, and they thought it was Jonathan. Jason felt guilty, because technically he was revealing Sabrina's affair to the police, which nobody wants there a fair to be known period, but they really don't want anyone to know after their loving husband was murdered. But Jason felt like he had to.

He didn't know if he was being dramatic or if something weird was going on. This news, this anonymous tip definitely changed things for the police. They were now going to take a deep look into Sabrina's personal life in affairs and she probably wasn't gonna like it. That is how the wiretap started. The police didn't want to just tap Sabrina's phone because they suspected they wouldn't get much out of it to begin with. You're like, why? Okay, let me explain. The minute they were suspicious of Sabrina, they pulled her phone records. And ever since the two, Jonathan and Sabrina ran into each other by chance at Costco, there

was a log of every text message, every call, everything. I mean, the amount of data was overwhelming. I bet if they printed all the call logs, the printer would have burst into flames like it was a lot. But then out of nowhere, a few months ago, just stopped. To give you an example of how overwhelming it was, from April through October, there were 7,000 communication records. Text messages, phone calls, 7,000. And then, suddenly, nothing. So they just ghosted each other?

That didn't make sense. They pulled up Jonathan's phone records. The communications didn't stop there. So Sabrina had gotten a burner phone. The call stopped on Sabrina's phone. They did not stop on Jonathan's. Instead Sabrina's number was replaced by a random new number they hadn't seen before.

And they were talking a lot. I'm talking over a hundred text messages a day. Even the day of the murder, it was a flurry of phone calls and texts. It only stopped when Robert was murdered, and then it resumed again. In the month of August alone, there were more than 2,500 text messages exchanged

and 120 phone calls. So it was intense. The police tapped into the burner phone and the very first call that they listened to. Jonathan was calling a random number, that burner phone number. And when they picked up he said, Hi baby, Sabrina's voice responded, Hey, how are you?

I'm good. How are you baby? It was intimate and just like that the detectives were going to listen to every little word uttered over the phone between these two. Every romantic declaration of love, every moment of stress, every moment of peeking anxiety, they were going to hear it all. And from the very first phone call, Jonathan worried that the phone lines might be tapped.

Interesting. It's fascinating because why would you worry about your phone lines being tapped? It's a very, it's not a thing to worry about, okay? And they agreed to talk later off the phone when he got to her place, and they hung up after exchanging, I love yous, which is fascinating since Sabrina had been posting

widow and mourning posts on social media and on Facebook. She wrote about how devastated she was about Robert's death. She wrote paragraph, about paragraph, about how much she loved him, how much she continued to love him, and how she thinks everyone for all the acts of kindness they have shown her during this time. She said things like, I look towards God

and the beautiful sky he painted with colors that fill my heart with hope to see Rob again someday. I will never let Rob's love die or fade out. I will carry it with me wherever I go and remind our children of it daily as they grow. Meanwhile, Jonathan is still sending bizarre cryptic messages to Jason and Kelly, asking for forgiveness, asking to meet up, just saying really strange things.

And then there was another incident. Jason ran into Sabrina and her kids at the store, and the kids were so excited. They're like, oh my god, Jason. They gave him a hug, and they're like, oh, we've been doing OK because we have a new friend Johnathan Sabrina look shocked for a second before shewing the kids away and changing the subject it was super awkward Jason called the police and told them all of this oh and Kelly told them about Dave

Remember how Kelly asked Sabrina about the car parked outside and she was like oh, it's just Dave Well Kelly told authorities that Sabrina had opened up to her about how she and Robert were swingers. So Sabrina allegedly told Kelly that they would get motel rooms with Dave and his wife. So two motel rooms, right? And they would swap spouses. So the wives would go to the other motel rooms. And in this case, it was Dale and Robert would go

with Dale's wife. Kelly had no idea how long it lasted, but eventually, Dale and his wife divorce, and they stopped swinging. This was all before Jonathan even entered the picture at Costco, and according to Sabrina, even after this, the couple maintained an open relationship. They were allowed to sleep within their group of friends, but nobody else, which I find to be fascinating, so I wonder if it's like a group of swingers? Because that's the only way that I I or a group of people with open relationships

But anyway the detectives believe the Bernatines they were genuine people they were good friends of Robert They were genuinely upset and grieving the loss of their friend But they were more upset than Sabrina was but there were still a lot of unanswered questions Because one of the topless photos founded Robert's phone was of Kelly Bernatine. What? But more on that later. This is all happening on Strawberry Lane, the perfect little town of Silverlake's. Back to the phone calls that were tapped, okay?

We're gonna get back to the topless photos. The police excruciatingly listened to every single phone call that was placed between them, which honestly nothing revolutionary came out of the calls There was no blatant confession Everything just added to the big picture of what the detectives had These two killed Robert because they were quote religious They didn't want Sabrina to get a divorce. They wanted Robert out the way and you know The police decided to have some fun with it. They start upping the pressure

They call it tickling the wire. Jonathan and Sabrina already suspected that the phone lines were being tapped. That's fine. The police wanted to give them something to talk about. Detective Meyer, the head of the investigation, starts toying with Sabrina, texting her about new leads, texting her about coming in to do more interviews, how he had more questions. Every time he texted her, sure enough, there would be a phone call placed. Hell, sometimes he would even text her while she was talking to Jonathan.

And every single time you could hear her breathing slow down for a second, and she's trying to sound as calm as possible. But it was clearly getting to her. When Detective Meyer texted her about coming in to answer more questions, Jonathan starts praying for her on the phone. She's like, hey babe, he wants me to come in and answer more questions. And Jonathan starts praying and he prays this.

This is a really weird prayer. I've never prayed this prayer before and I grew up in a religious household. Please keep Sabrina's calmness and clarity of thought to not give too much information that doesn't need to be shared. God, please help us. Amen.

What? I'm not... You're talking about the compassion right there. I don't know if God's doing that. And their phone calls really showed their fragile mental states. One second, their panicked and stressed and feverishly praying together another moment, they would talk about how much their bodies ached for each other. Are they religious or are they not? I don't know. Every little noise on the line Sabrina would perk up and say, did you hear that? Was that a click? Do you think our phones are tapped?

Which side note? With modern technology, you will not hear a click. So you know all those TikToks that are like, here's how your phone lines are tapped. If you get on a phone and you hear a click, so that's like usually if it's tapped by like a third party app that's been installed on your phone. But if you're getting phone tapped by the police or the FBI, you're not gonna hear a click, you're not gonna hear anything. You won't even know.

So she's like, did you hear that? That's a click. No, that's why we're getting wiretapped. Yeah, it was very clear that Sabrina was spooked. The detective even went as far to feed her lies. He told her how they were running DNA tests on a bead of sweat that they had found at the crime scene. And once they came in, they would have a name.

As long as that person's DNA was in the system, ooh, they would have a suspect. At times, he talked about finding more CCTV footage, which he did, but none of it was that useful, but it didn't matter, because the detectives were pretty certain they were barking up the right tree, Sabrina and Jonathan. But I think the fact that he was telling Sabrina so much started to weigh on Jonathan. He said on a phone call. Honestly, it just, it just, it feels like they're almost suspecting you or something, or us. So I started

to think they might be tapping our phones. I don't know. This, if they suddenly came upon our phone records, of course they're going to be suddenly suspicious of us. Well, I just talked to Detective Meyer and I asked him if you have the DNA, why don't you have the suspect? And he was like, no, I'm just a detective. The lab people do all of that. And I asked him how the DNA works and he said, oh, I don't know. I'm not really sure about it. And Jonathan is like, to me, it's like, why would he say he's not

sure? Because he's like the detective that investigates homicide. It's like, what do you mean, you're not sure? I don't know. He said it's all like scientific stuff. I don't know. There's a few things that are just bothering me about the way that he's treating you, you know? Keeping you out of the loop, that doesn't seem right. I feel like he knows we're involved, that we were together. I feel like this is gonna be his lead. I can't even believe that. It's just, this is so crazy, you know? Jonathan's like, now that I think about it,

it's like he's suspecting us of being involved. You know how officers are allowed to use a ruse? If you wanna get information, you're allowed to lie to get that information. So it seems like he's trying to get you to relax and open up and see if you have some secrets. Honestly, I feel like that's what he's doing, bringing you out of your comfort zone and into his. Oh yeah, he is being really nice.

Feel him out, you know? Spring up, see if he's drinking you around. He's kind of being back and forth with you, he hasn't been straightforward. I understand what he's doing. He's just making sure you really don't have knowledge or involvement, but that's how he has to do it. Jonathan asked Sabrina if she has the autopsy report, and she said Detective Myard said he hadn't had it yet, so he can't give it to her because he doesn't have it yet. Jonathan goes on to say, I looked online for it and I couldn't find it either.

And soon the conversation went to God again. How they always talk about God right after homicide is beyond me. But Jonathan said, I want to be recharged for God and just be humble, Sabrina. I can't tell you how truly I am aligned and agree with your passion and your hope and your desire, which I just have the Bible there. And I find purpose and I just read the Bible. And I find that we have been given a purpose to live for God to raise a family for God. We serve a big God, Sabrina. He's in the business of bringing down miracles. I don't know what miracle it is that we're asking for. Just to guide this investigation. I love you so so much, Sabrina.

Before they hang up, Sabrina asked for a passage recommendation for her to read that night for her little Bible study. And Jonathan said, Psalm 38 and Psalm 51. This is what those verses say. It's about King David wrestling with his conscious after having Euryah killed on the front lines. And it says, for I know my transgressions and my sin is always before me against you, you only have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight What's so sick is that in further conversations Sabrina almost hints at Robert's murder being a part of God's plan and being a reason for her to get her life together

She said it's not about me, but God is giving me the strength to see things the way I need to God is giving me strength to not just be out there parting. To have known that that's not what I want. We were wrong for being so distracted by so many ungodly things. Robert's not here. You know why? Why? It doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel real, but I should ask God to use me. Use me. God does have a purpose. I know it and it's so crazy to me. That's like next level narcissism. I'm so sorry. Nobody's death is for you. God is not like, let me just kill someone so you can get your life together. Like that is really next level narcissism. I don't even know what to say about that.

I mean, it's one thing to straighten your life out after something traumatic happens, but it's another thing to be like, I just feel like God did this to talk to me. Mm, I think he could have just gotten a billboard. And then Sabrina wondered what would have happened had Robert survive the shooting, and she said, I just know that he wouldn't want to be in a wheelchair, not being able to get back up like he wouldn't. I just think about that all the time.

I think I would have taken care of them, though, I would have. This is a really weird conversation. And Jonathan is like, I know you would have. Like just making her feel like this amazing wife who would have taken care of her wheelchair bound husband. Like, why are you fantasizing about that? This is very bizarre. And she said, I would have. As his wife, there are certain honors I owe him just by the title of being his wife. And then Sabrina oddly brought up the fact that Robert allegedly told her shortly before his murder. He had allegedly said, Sabrina if I died tomorrow, I would be happy. And she said, you know, the timing is crazy. Like, that's where I have peace.

It's so creepy to me, the timing, it's so creepy, like it's unreal, it doesn't feel real. It feels like the purpose that he left was part of God's plan. Again, I don't think God went out there, got a gun, bought a silencer, and committed premeditated murder. And I definitely don't think that he told anybody else to do it for him. Another interesting tidbit in their conversations was when Sabrina talked about her husband's death, and she would say things like, you're going to carry the sins because the sins that Robert and I have committed have led us to where we are today. I need to feel that. Like, that's never going to go away.

It's not like, okay, now I'm going to live happily ever after with Jonathan. Now it's just like ironic. Like, wow, this really worked out for us. Now, you get to be my husband. No, I need to feel that pain every single day. They also talk in-depth about how Jonathan sees them as King David and Boshiba. So basically, they're both forgiven by God. Like, they lose a child, but they eventually

are forgiven by God, and they go back into his good graces. And it's the whole story is supposed to be about how God forgives all as long as you confess your sins. Jonathan would say things like, you know, even in the Bible, David was a man after God's own heart. Like God really liked him, even still after everything he did. He was one of God's favorite people. So a lot more of these conversations

can be found in the book. But most of the wiretapping evidence is Sabrina and Jonathan increasingly growing paranoid, feeling like they're being watched and followed over town by the police, which they weren't wrong. They were being watched and followed all over town. They went out to eat and there were like four different sets of undercover cops eating nearby and they had no idea.

And they didn't get to hear anything, but the two were huddled, like whispering in a corner at the restaurant, so. It's kind of bizarre. Yeah, but also, why are they acting so scared of being watched by the police? I mean, think about it. The murder is still on the loose.

Would you not be scared that the murder is targeting you next? Wouldn't you rather the police be near by you? Yeah, unless you're the murder. Exactly. It's just an interesting reaction to have when your spouse has just been murdered. And when they weren't doing that, they're feverishly praying. Sabrina is yelling at her kids while she's on the phone with Jonathan. The amount of times that her kids almost burn the house down by microwaving popcorn and

she's yelling at them as intense on these phone calls. And they're saying, I love you. I mean, it's just insane. That was about it though. And another thing that the police did was they tried to ask Sabrina about a guy named John. They were like, we got a tip about someone who wanted Robert dead and his name is like, John, John something.

Do you know what John? And Sabrina looked so innocent and she said, I think he works with a guy named John Juistus. But I don't mean they never had any. They weren't on bad terms, but oh, John Juistus did own a motorcycle. Oh, is she naming a different John? Yeah. And the police are like, oh, that's cool.

Yeah, that makes sense. That's probably the John they were talking to. And immediately Sabrina called Jonathan in a panic To tell them to tell him about the conversation that she just had and they were both freaking out and praying non-stop They were just very very paranoid and they had every right to be because one day while Jonathan her and was at work He felt the cold handcuffs snap around his wrist and he was arrested He did not put up a fight, he calmly went into the police car. They searched his entire house, I mean there were so much stuff in

that house it was nearly impossible to sort through so for a very long time they did not find key pieces of evidence. They would actually have to wait until Jonathan told them where exactly to look. They would find the murder weapon and the silencer and stuff, so it just took them a very long time. Like that's how intense the house was. The garage was wild, it was piled to the ceiling with boxes, I mean it was a full-blown storage unit. But one thing they did find was a framed photo of Sabrina Lyman's kids on his shelf, which, mmm, ain't a lot of problems with that later on. It's just a very, you know, so after that, they decided to bring in Sabrina Lyman, and Sabrina's talking to the detectives, and she keeps urging them that they have the wrong

guys. There's no way that Jonathan Herndt could have done this no way. She just kept repeating like no way. She was arrested, and the whole time she's like, oh my god am I really being arrested for having an affair, and the police are like, shut up, don't play dumb. When is the last time anybody has been arrested for adultery? You're being arrested for murder! Get it together.

Get it together. She also talked about how God was spanking her right now and she could feel it and she deserved it. I don't know. Listen. Religion is fantastic but please don't say God's spanking you right now because it's going to make me kind of giggle a little. Like I don't say God's spanking you right now because it's gonna make me kinda giggle a little. Like I don't know how to react to that.

And finally, she admitted to an affair with Jonathan Hurn, and she also admitted to being in an open relationship with Robert. But still, she's like Jonathan couldn't have done it. No, there's no way he's such a good person. Also, side note, she said that her entire group of friends were wife's whappers, like there were swingers, but all the friends would deny it. For some reason, I'm inclined to believe Sabrina on this one. Yeah. Which like, there's nothing wrong with open marriages or wife swapping or partner swapping or anything like that. It's just, has nothing to do with homicide, so I get it.

Maybe they don't want their reputations tarnished or their kids to freak out. But Sabrina claimed she hated her open marriage. She said that she felt like Robert and her sacred vow in marriage had been broken. And even though they were best friends and they never fought, being in this open relationship it just she hated it. She also claimed that he was addicted to online porn. He was constantly on his phone watching porn or he was at work and they just never really spent time together. So that led her to be lonely and yeah, she had an affair and she felt super guilty about it. And then she even had the audacity to say,

and I quote, I just felt like it was God's plan. I can't believe this happened to him. And the police are getting fed up at this point, and they say, was it God's purpose for Robert to die? Is that what you're saying? We all die. Whatever plan God has for us, I just felt like I'm living the time I have to live left, raise my children, you know?

You think Rob wanted to die? You think God planned to have your children's father die? No, I feel like it was an act of evil. Okay, well I agree with you there, but you kept saying it was God's plan, why? I'm trying to figure it out, I have no idea how he could have gone, so I put my faith in God. That's what I've been. Again, what?

But the police breeze passed it because they're more interested in the fact that yes, they idea how he could have gone, so I put my faith in God. That's what I've been. Again, what? But the police breeze passed it, because they're more interested in the fact that, yes, they believe Jonathan shot and killed Robert, but they thought Sabrina had to help him plan everything. For one, she was constantly in communication with Jonathan the day of Robert's murder. Second of all, she was the one that knew where he was working,

because that's not even his normal workstation. She even knew the Teh Pachi pass location look like because she had been there before. Jonathan would later claim that she gave him a full rundown on the interior, the layout of the offices, everything. Even the fact that the new work trucks that the crew had been given had dash cams in the front. So he should stay away from the front of any work

and shoot vehicles even if they weren't operating. When she was confronted with her damning phone calls, she said, no, no, no, no, no, like I was just so paranoid of the affair, that's why I sound so paranoid on these wire-tapped phone calls. I was paranoid that you guys were gonna find out about the affair and arrest me for adultery. I don't know, I'm just gonna be honest.

She seems a little like shallow, shallow, I think. It's so serious, everything is so serious, but her responses almost have like an air of casualness to it, so it's really puzzling, I just can't really comprehend it. Even when the detectives asked, what do you think is gonna happen to you right now? I don't know, going to jail? With all this information, you think you're ever gonna be able

to see your kids again? I hope so, it's a nightmare. The detectives looked around the eye and said, How do you think Robert felt? What do you think was going through his mind? Was his heart racing thinking about his kids and his wife? Jonathan was trying to murder him for what? So he could have his life.

This guy wanted Robert's life. The guy murdered him in cold blood. How do you think Robert felt? How do you be fucking scared? The guy murders him because he wants his life? Yeah, and I'm the one that gave him the address to where he works. You did? You told him where your husband worked at, where the shop was at, what days he worked everything. Sabrina claims she never wanted Robert dead. She didn't know Jonathan

had killed him until after it was too late. She claimed Jonathan never even outright told her that he did it, but she started putting two and two together. Either way, the detectives were pissed, and they were like, it's your fault. She said, I know. He's a scumbag and you're telling a man that you're sharing a bed with where your husband works, like that's beyond me. If you don't have anything for us, I think we need to get you to jail. And with that, they booked her in jail. And an intense legal battle ensued.

Johnathan and Sabrina, by the grace of God, would turn on each other very quickly. It didn't take too much pressure. The police had a few conversations with Jonathan, and they leaned into his religion and told him that they needed Sabrina to take accountability for what she had done. And also, Robert's family reached out to Jonathan. The victim's family reached out to the killer. Side note, Sabrina came into quite an inheritance. She had gotten a $300,000 life insurance payout. There were talks of a nearly $2 million payout

from the railroad company for Robert's death, which she would only potentially be getting because Robert was murdered on the job. There's got to be some level of security that's provided so you're not murdered while you're working, which people thought was very strange, you know Anyway, all of this made it look even worse for Sabrina and Robert's family felt so much But trial, you know, it's not like anyone can wrap their heads around cold-blooded murder

But when it was Jonathan it makes more sense, I guess to a degree This is a man who is so evil so vile that he killed an innocent man for his wife. But when they look at Sabrina, it's more complicated, it's more personal, it's more brutal, it's more betrayal. Robert's sister, Lydia, could barely believe it. The idea that Sabrina was involved, I mean, it never even crossed her mind. Sabrina had always been kind, and not to mention Jonathan is 10 years younger than Sabrina. I mean, the family wanted answers.

They didn't understand. So they reached out to Jonathan and they even told him, is Sabrina is involved? She needs to take accountability. And the DA was also willing to work with the victim's family. So the DA is in a very tricky situation because they get elected into their office and with high profile of cases They want the victim's family to be content with the outcome and Robert's family wanted accountability from Sabrina more than they wanted it from Jonathan So the DA offered Jonathan a deal He would confess do the right thing in the eyes of God or whatever get a sentence that he that was probably way better than what he was looking at

He was looking at life in prison without parole. And in the end, Jonathan convinced himself to take the plea deal because Sabrina needed to admit what she had done to be good in the eyes of God. But I mean let's be real. Both of them are just selfish bastards. So for a sentence of just 25 years and four months with credit for time served, Jonathan took the plea deal and could be out in time for his 50th birthday. All he had to do was test a wagon, Sabrina. And he did. He talked non-stop for hours. The initial police report was more than a hundred pages long. He talked in depth about how Sabrina

had told him where Robert was working, what the building looked like. She was even very loving after his death. She would text him, um, nudes and dressed photos and she would say things like, I adore you Jonathan Herne, you sexy guy. Just two weeks after Robert passed. She would write things like, I want to kiss you right now and not stop. I love you so much, baby. Miss you so much tonight and I feel God's purpose and strength working in my life and our relationship. I feel super blessed. Baby, you are my partner in this life to live for God. I am so ready to live my life. I am ready for us.

I am in love with you deeply. I love that I have never felt before. Yeah. And the trial for Sabrina was gonna be very messy. A lot of people were paying attention and Sabrina was not the most likable person. I think the whole affair with a firefighter in her marital home while her husband

and father of her children were at work and then going to Spout religious prayers is not a good look for anybody and the fact that she just didn't know how to win over Jerseyers she decided to testify which is either a make it a break-it-moment for most defendants She could either show Jerseyers how vulnerable and honest she's being or she could just completely throw them off And all she seemed to do was throw them off. Whenever she was presented with contradicting evidence, her own lies, she just kept saying, I don't know. I don't know what I meant by that.

Her whole defense argument was based on the fact that she was being controlled by Jonathan, but she had a hard time proving any of it. And I'm not saying that's not how she felt, or if that's not true. I can't get into that because we don't really know somebody's relationship, but she wasn't able to convince the jury. And Jonathan's testimony was pretty damning. He said the night that Robert was murdered wasn't the first time they tried to kill Robert.

Apparently they had tried to poison him prior. Sabrina even told him that Robert's favorite food was banana pudding. So Jonathan used a fake ID to buy arsenic on the internet because of course, and how to chip to his grandparents house of all people, put it into his homemade banana pudding to give to Sabrina who would pack it into Robert's lunch, and to test the efficacy of the arsenic. Jonathan while on the stand testifying again Sabrina very calmly stated that he fed it to his neighbors a annoying dog He always had a bit of an issue with that dog barking non-stop

He didn't hear a bark after that The prosecutors because well Jonathan is their start witness just decided to brush past this as if he didn't just admit to that Instead they were like a ha you two were conspiring to kill Robert Nobody's checking on the dog. Okay. And there was more drama when Kelly testified. And she admitted to engaging in sexual activity with Sabrina and her husband. But she claimed that it was only oral sex with the couple while Jason, her husband, was

present. Look, it's a lot. She also denied sending naked photos to Robert and she said she has no idea how he got that topless photo of her. She speculated maybe they were on the boat and she flashed the camera in good fun. Yeah. So it just added a lot more of that scandalous sniss to this whole case because you know it's a group of swingers it seems like it just it was a lot it was a lot. Jonathan also claimed on the stand that um It was a lot, it was a lot. Jonathan also claimed on the stand that, um,

Sabrina said that divorce was in an option, because Robert would rather be dead than divorced and losing her would essentially kill him anyway. Again, that's, it's like next level narcissistic type of behavior. Like, could you imagine confidently sitting there and being like, oh, I think they'd rather die than be without me.

And then there was the legal notepad. So Jonathan had written a damning list of all the things that he hated that Robert allegedly did to Sabrina, and he wrote, He gave away his wife to another man to share passionate experiences that human can share together. A.K.A. sex. Wants to have three sums. Views his wife as a come dumpster.K.A. sex. Wants to have three sums. Views his wife as a cum dumpster. Whoa.

Divide the living God. Please kill him, God. Yeah. So in the end, the whole trial came down to an argument of who was in control. Jonathan tried to argue with Sabrina. He did this all for her to free her. Sabrina claimed she had no idea Jonathan was going to kill Robert. She was being controlled by him.

And in the end, the jury found Sabrina Lyman, guilty of murder of Robert Lyman, guilty of felony of accessory, and she was sentenced to 25 years to life. Sabrina is now appealing her sentence. Lydia, Robert's sister, said, we have answers to the questions we were looking for for nearly three years that Sabrina and nobody else could give us. It's a shame that it breaks both sides of our families like this. I don't know how she can bring that kind of grief, disappointment, and embarrassment to our family. It's all the friends that gathered that tried to sympathize with her in the past.

The story she told, it just wasn't right. What do you guys think of this case? Do you think it's Sabrina that was more guilty or drawn at the Jonathan? I mean, the fact that someone can do that to their children's father, their spouse beyond me. Like, it's one thing if a spouse is abusive and you feel like you have to protect your children, but he wasn't. How can you even say that you love your children if you're willing to traumatize them and take away their father? Like, do you think that your children will be fine? I just can't think of a single loving parent

thinking that way. So what do you think is the motive? A lot of people speculate that Sabrina didn't want to get a divorce for whatever reason. Some people think it was monetary, some people think that it wasn't, because Robert was the breadwinner. He was making over $100,000 a year,

and she was kind of was on and off work. Some people think it was the life insurance. Some people think that she was just kind of a raging narcissist who needed to feel all these crazy feelings. So, some believe that narcissists want to be this crazy dramatic character in their own movie. And really, to Jonathan, it seems like she had told him that she was so broken in this marriage. She felt so used. She didn't feel loved. They were breaking this sacred vow. They

were doing ungodly things and was tearing her apart. Wow, it's so interesting. Yeah, and I don't know what's wrong with Jonathan. Obviously, a lot of stuff, but yeah, and the constant reference of God in religion is so weird yeah and really creepy like and it was so instant because the wiretaps it's like instantly oh my god the detective called I'm so freaked out let's pray how do you even like that's beyond me what are your thoughts on this case there are some wild people out there so please stay safe and I will see you guys on Sunday for the mini-sode bye case. There are some wild people out there, so please stay safe and I will see you guys

on Sunday for the mini-sode. Bye!