Rotten Mango - #231: Explosive Updates On Idaho Murders Case- Did He Stalk Them On Instagram?

Episode Date: January 22, 2023

Police had kept a tight lid on this ongoing case of the four University of Idaho students that were murdered in the middle of the night. But now bits and pieces of information have come to light.  And while we have more answers, we have more questions now. Is it true that he visited the victims at the restaurant where they worked? Did he follow and message them on Instagram? Was he an incel that felt injustice in his life for being rejected by women? Did he have a rare condition, called Visual Snow Syndrome, where his vision looked almost like TV static every day?  But the most pressing unanswered question, why?  Probable Cause Affidavit: https://www.eastidahonews.com/2023/01/read-affidavit-in-kohberger-murder-cased-warning-graphic-content/  Unsealed Search Warrant: https://kfor.com/news/search-warrant-for-idaho-suspect-bryan-kohberger-unsealed/  Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to this week's mini-sode of Rotten Mango. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. Now, this week's mini-sode is going to be interesting. We are doing an update on the Idaho case, and we will have visuals as well. If you guys are interested in watching the video version and seeing any relevant pictures head over to Stephanie suit on YouTube It will be uploaded later, but with that being said We are diving into an update on the Idaho for murder case as there's been a lot of new revelations and unsealed documents that have been made public So let's get started There has been so much going on online about this case. My whole TikTok feed, my news feed is filled with updates on this case. And unfortunately, an influx of wild conspiracies,

assumptions, and just really insensitive accusations towards some of the surviving roommates. So hopefully this update will be an unbiased take on the information that's been released or at least to the best of my ability. Maybe to even clear up some of the strange conspiracies that people have come up with online because really leave the poor surviving roommate alone, please. I'm gonna link the full affidavit in the description. It was prepared by Moscow police officer Brett Payne in case you're wondering and we're gonna do a full rundown to refresh our memories, but also make clarifications that have come out with the affidavit. So here's what we knew before that on November 13th of 2022, four college students from University of Idaho were found dead in their bedrooms at 1122 King Road in Moscow, Idaho. It's an off-campus house. It's a three-story house. There were six college students in that house that night, four were stabbed to death in the middle of the night, and the other two survived.

So originally we had assumed that the other two had slept in the rooms downstairs on the first floor. So we assumed they slept through the murders. They hadn't heard anything. They hadn't seen anything until the next day. Now the affidavit clears things up, it changes things. The police had a tight lid on this case and they probably still do, which I have to say I was really worried in part one that they weren't getting anywhere with the case, but it's like a huge relief to know that they're getting closer and closer to justice. Brian Cobrager has since been arrested. A quick overview on what we know about Brian Cobrager so far, he was born November 21st, 1994.

He's 28 years old, originally from Pennsylvania. He moved to Washington, to attend Washington State University to get a PhD in criminology. He was also a teaching assistant there. Now, Washington is a completely separate state from Idaho in case you guys don't live in the US. But both colleges are located on border towns.

So even though they're completely two different states, the colleges are like a quick drive apart. There were a few people who knew him, New Brian, and they said this about him. A student named Hayden Stinchfield was in one of Brian Cobrager's classes that Brian was a TA in, and Hayden told ABC that Ryan was not a beloved one. He was not a beloved TA. He kind of gave off this impression that he wasn't even that interested in teaching, but at the same time he was incredibly harsh when it came to grading papers. Like, he would leave these incredibly critical comments on students' papers, but by mid-November,

after the quadruple murders, his whole demeanor changed. It was just kind of bizarre. So Brian started coming to class with Stubbel on his chin, which that was very uncharacteristic. He was a very neat and clean guy. It normally wasn't there. You know, he was always very put together, but not anymore. He was allegedly zoning out more than usual, but the biggest difference. So you're saying after that, he still went to school? Yes. So he wasn't arrested until December 27th.

Yeah, apparently Brian stopped caring as much about grinding papers. So this TA that used to put these incredibly harsh comments on all the papers, suddenly he went from overly critical to practically handing out high marks for even average or even below average papers. It started becoming a running joke between Hayden's circle of friends that you could turn in a random paper and get a hundred for criminology. Another student recalled Brian

getting more chatty around mid-November, but they can't ever remember Brian talking about the Idaho murders, which are like okay well maybe it's not a casual talking point, but think about it. They're so close in geographical distance and their criminology students and their university students. I think not a casual talking point, but think about it. They're so close in geographical distance and their criminology students and their university students. I think any university in the world, or at least in the US, was talking about the Idaho murders. In fact, people said it seemed like he would go quiet

anytime someone brought up the murders, which was quite frequently, again, because they're so close in distance, they're criminology students. Brian never seemed to be a part of the discussion. The student said there was one time where quite a bunch of people had this very long conversation about it in class, and they can't remember a single thing that Brian had said about it. He didn't make a single comment about the Idaho killings.

Other classmates started coming out to news outlets about their experiences with Brian. And I just want to say, take these with a grain of salt because hindsight is everything, you know? According to Brian's now former classmate, they said that he didn't have a lot of friends because he, and I quote, he sort of creeped people out. He just stared and didn't talk much. But when he did, he was very intelligent, but he needed everyone to know that he was smart. Another friend slash former classmate took to social media, her name is Casey Arns, and

she alleged that Brian was a heavy heroin user in high school. But he has since been clean since 2017. He was 23 at the time that he got clean. He was working as a security guard at a local school. He reportedly earned praise for saving another officer's life when that officer was having an asthma attack Casey's brother who also knew Brian said Brian was a bully growing up He was the type where he himself was getting bullied for being overweight

So anytime he was around people he wanted to be more dominant He wanted to be more aggressive He was the type of bully that would happily point out his friends flaws and insecurities in order to distract from his own struggles. Casey's brother told the Daily Beast, he did that to me all the time. He would go after my intelligence, he would basically insinuate that I'm kind of slow-witted, and then I'm forgetful, and that I lack the intelligence to even be his friend. According to ABC, allegedly Brian Coeberger had posted on online forum years ago, that showed that he had these quote crazy thoughts and quote delusions of grandeur.

Allegedly, Brian wrote about how he had horrible depersonalization. He had a depersonalization. He felt very detached from himself. Like he wasn't in tune with any of his feelings, anything that would really resonate with the human experience. He allegedly wrote, I feel no really resonate with the human experience. He allegedly wrote, I feel no emotion along with depersonalization. I can say and do whatever I want with little remorse. I often find myself making simple human interactions, but it's as if I'm roleplaying

in a game. Even when I hug my family, I look into their faces and I see nothing. It's like I'm looking at a video game, but even us, I'm blank, I have no opinion, I have no emotion, I have nothing. Now back to the night in question. Originally, it was believed that Kaylee and Maddie were on the third floor, with Kaylee's dog, Zena and Ethan on the second floor, and the two surviving roommates were on the first floor. And based on that belief, it was assumed that the killer never went to the first floor. Maybe he had come in through the sliding glass door in the back, that would open up directly to the second floor. Maybe he never even knew there was a first floor, or maybe he thought it wasn't important, or he didn't need to go there and wake up people,

maybe the intended victims were already on the second or third floor. There was a lot up in the air for debate, but it was believed that the killer went from the second floor to the third floor killing everyone and then leaving, leaving the first floor undisturbed. Well, we now know that one of the surviving roommates bedrooms was actually on the second floor. The same floor where Zaina and Ethan's bodies would be found. It's speculated that the police did not clarify with the public about this because it would only draw negative attention towards that roommate But that roommate and both roommates have been completely cleared of suspicion as of right now So one of the roommate was actually on the second floor. Yes, correct

So you know even before we knew that but when we thought that they were all on the first floor the questions of how did they not hear anything all night How do four people die upstairs and you don't even wake up? Like these were thrown at them so I think it wasn't released until the affidavit for those reasons. Now, those questions were answered in the affidavit, but let's back up. The night of the murders, here's what we knew. Everyone in the house went out. The surviving roommates were the first to come back home.

Then Ethan and Zaina came home after a frat party. Kaylee and Maddie went to a bar called the Corner Club. According to CCTV footage, Kaylee and Maddie were at the club from 10pm to 1.30am. According to a witness who spoke to the Daily Mail, let's call him Joe. He said that he saw two girls at the bar. Kaylee and Maddie, and they were getting a lot of mail attention at the bar. A lot of guys were coming up to them trying to talk to them. Joe claimed that he thought Kaylee looked visibly drunk and that her eyes were, quote,

glassy eyed and that she was, quote, stumbling. I'm not sure if this is like an accurate take, nor if it's even important to anything because being drunk or anything for that matter does not warrant victimization, but that's just what he's saying. Joe left the corner club before the girls did, but he ran into them again at the Grub Trucker's pasta food truck. We're Kaylee and Matty were caught on CCTV, and I personally didn't think that either of them looked drunk in the footage. Like maybe they sobered up in the cold air, but the two ordered a carbonara, waited for

their food, now remember Mystery Guy at the food truck? Will the internet rip into shreds even though the police stated that he had been cleared of suspicion? Well now Joe's said he actually interacted with the police stated that he had been cleared of suspicion. Well now Joe said he actually interacted with Mr. Guy and he was a really nice guy. So he said that Mr. Guy was actually more worried about Kaylee and Maddie getting home safely than anything else. Apparently he was just looking out for the girls to make sure that they were safe.

Joe said the guy was funny, nice and you know just solid guy. Joe said believe me I tell, his vibe was not bad. Either way, Mr. Guy was cleared by the police. The girls get into a car that drove them back home. The driver has since been cleared by the police. And at this point, Kaylee and Maddie had gotten home. The two surviving roommates, Zaina and Ethan, they're already home, we knew this.

Now this is where we previously had a wall with this story, but now we have a slightly more clear picture of what happened. Kaley, Maddie, Zana and Ethan's final hours went something like this, according to the affidavit. Kaley and Maddie went into one of the rooms on the third floor. They did not immediately go to sleep. Kaley's phone was used to call her ex-boyfriend six times.

Maddie's phone was used to call Kaley's ex-boyfriend a couple of times. It speculated that it was drunk texting and drunk calling. Again, we knew this, but now it starts getting more detailed. At 4am, Zaina received a door dash delivery, which was not previously made public. So the police interviewed the door dash delivery person before anyone gets any ideas. They have been cleared of suspicion. Now the Avedevid doesn't specify whether or not Zaina picked up her order at the main entrance of the house, which would be the main front door that leads to the first floor, or if she got the driver to drop

it off at the back patio, which would lead to the second floor. A lot of people believe and speculate that she asked for it to be dropped off at the sliding glass door on the back patio. This way she would enough to go downstairs to the floor's floor, risk waking up one of the roommates, and the back patio was so much closer to her. This is pure speculation and theory, but here's the incredibly creepy part. Zaina picked up the Door Dash delivery less than 20 minutes before she was murdered. And potentially, the alleged killer Brian Coburger might have even seen that she had gotten a Door Dash delivery. How you ask?

So the Avid Avid stated that Brian had been watching the house and the residents of 1-1-2-2 King Road for months prior to the murder. What? Since August. And we know this because police got Brian's cell tower records, and he pinged in close proximity to the King Road residents on at least 12 instances from August to November. Which means that Brian was watching the victims, the house, on at least 12 different occasions, potentially even more because he could have just turned off his phone, left it at home, or put it on airplane mode. But more notably, the night of the murders, Brian's phone pinged in the area in the early morning hours of November 13th,

shortly before 3am, and then from 3am to 5am, his phone went dark. It was inactive, like someone had turned it off or put it on airplane mode. And finally, at 5am, the phone pinged again. This was already after the murders were committed. In fact, the police basically were able to track Brian's phone going from where his university is, WSU to 1122 King Road, turn off for a while, and then 5am, it's turned back on

and traveling towards Washington. That's so strange, so he keeps cellphone dead pink at the crime scene. Yes, in close proximity to the crime scene. And his phone was off for two hours. Exactly around the time that the police believed the murders took place, which means the door dash came at 4am, Brian turned off his phone from 3-5am, which side note, if you're interested in a tighter time frame, the homicides are believed to have happened between 4 AM and 425 AM. Allegedly. Zaina gets her door dash at 4 AM. Again, it's speculated that it would make sense that her food was dropped off at the

back patio. Maybe her hands were full, so she may have neglected to lock the sliding glass door behind her. Maybe they never lock that door. The only reason this is speculated is because there are no signs of forced entry in the house. Susaina gets her door dash, brings it into the bedroom, and proceeds to eat it with Ethan. And around that time, 4am, they're surviving roommate, let's call them roommate A. Roommate A, who is sleeping on the second floor, the same floor as Zaina and Ethan, the second floor. Now, roommate A's room is right next to

a flight of stairs. These stairs specifically lead to the third floor. There's another flight of stairs and that one leads to the first floor. Keep this in mind. And now, the events start to get incredibly unsettling. Room A was asleep on the second floor and she said that she woke up to what she thought was the sound of Kaylee playing with her dog upstairs. Kaylee's room is right above hers which is probably why she woke up. Now, it's important to note that Kaylee might have not been playing with her dog at 4am.

That's just what it sounded like to Rumeide. It could be that Kaylee's dog became distressed and maybe Kaylee was calming the dog down. Because Rumeide also claimed, she heard Kaylee say something to the effect of, there's someone here. At the same time, Zaina was still awake, and her phone record showed that she was scrolling on TikTok. And maybe that was the noise that freaked out Kaylee's dog, or made Kaylee think that someone was inside the house, or maybe she heard somebody else, but the creepy thing is

that someone was inside the house now. The killer. Rumi made a said that she opened her bedroom door, glanced down the hallway when she heard Kaylee say something to the effect of someone's in the house, and she looked down the hall and she saw nothing. She didn't see anyone or anything suspicious, so she closed the door. She went back to her bed, and a few minutes later she heard the sound of someone crying, and it was coming from Zeno's room.

She speculated initially that maybe Zena and Ethan were fighting. So going back to the door she opened it and peeked out. Now if you look at the floor plan of the second floor, um, Rumeide's open door just leads into the dark living room. She's not going to be able to see in Tazena's bedroom. Rumeide didn't see anything the second time that she opened her door, but she did hear an unfamiliar voice that said, it's okay, I'm going to help you. It's like a male voice. Now okay, I'm going to help you. It's like a male voice. Now again, I know people like to really drag roommate A

at this point, but this is like a six roommates in one house situation, off campus housing. There are people in and out, people invite friends all the time, and like we mentioned in part one, I mean, even that Saturday night, it was pretty lively in this town. So it's not immediately going to strike her as, oh my God, like there's a home intruder.

She's just like, okay, that's weird. I wonder who that is. A security camera from a neighbor's house, that's just 50 feet away, picked up some distorted audio, and it sounded like somebody whimpering, followed by a loud thud at 4.17am. At the same time, a dog can be heard barking numerous times at 4.17am. That's dear dog, right?

So during this commotion, Rumeide never turned on her lights, never turned on a flashlight. I imagine she had no idea what was going on. She probably didn't understand. She's trying to figure it out. She's sleepy. She's dazed. it's dark. I think murder is the last thing that she suspected because of the fact that she opened her door a third time. Like, I don't know, I just imagine that's not the normal response for when you think of murder

as taking place. She just probably was confused on what was going on. She opened her door a third time, and this time she saw someone. A figure clad in black with a mask covering his mouth and nose, and she was terrified. Now mind you, she didn't turn on any lights, okay? She's paralyzed in fear, like she just froze. She's unable to move. She doesn't recognize him. He looks 5, 10 taller, male, not very muscular, more lean, athlet Athletically built he had these bushy eyebrows Room made a was literally paralyzed in fear with her door open

But because she had never turned on a light inside her room. She was shrouded in darkness And this man was about three feet away from her No, and then two feet and then he was right next to her and then he walked straight past her Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, he was where, though, he was walking down the stairs. So originally we thought that the residents on floor two were murdered and then floor three, but now it seems that floor three was attacked first. And then it seemed like she saw him while he was coming out of Zena and Ethan's bedroom. And he was headed straight for the sliding glass doors.

He's leaving now. Yes. He walked towards the sliding glass door and in this moment she jumped to action as quickly as she could. She locked the door to her bedroom and started freaking out. The police believe at this point the killer had already committed all the crimes was on his way out. Now you're like, okay, how did he just walk past Rumeide?

Why did he go after the other four roommates but just walk past her? Here's the thing, his face was obscured by a mask. So his vision is probably already not great. And it's speculated that Rumeide being paralyzed in fear that might have saved her life. Because there's an interesting,

slightly eerie phenomenon in humans, our brains don't register unmoving objects all that well. It's terrifying, but our brains just suck at it. And the fact that Rue Médé was in the dark, the killer most likely did not see her or did not register that it was another person standing there watching him walk out. So now, a big question that comes out of the Safa David being released is that Rue Médé did not immediately call the police. In fact, police weren't called for close to 12 hours. There is no clear answer here. I don't think that there ever will be.

This is where a lot of people are throwing some wild accusations at roommate A. And I think it's honestly a little bit selfish. I think it's reckless for people to assume that they know what they would do in that position because you never really know until you're in that position and you would be surprised at how Crazy human brains are and how Complex they are and how much they work to protect you at all costs against trauma at this level in this scale

The police have cleared both surviving roommates. I genuinely think that roommate A was in shock and no matter what anybody says about her on the internet, it's not going to change anything now. In fact, from my limited knowledge of stories of survivors, I think that she is going to carry this with the rest of her life. And you don't need to beat her up on it because she's probably already beating herself up about it. It's just so depressing,

just to see people accuse her of being involved or having sinister reasons for not calling. I would say these people are very lucky to have not experienced trauma in shock because if they had, they would know it's not black or white. But I digress. The police were finally called to the house Sunday. Now, allegedly, the two surviving roommates

had invited friends over when they noticed that the glass door of the back patio was open. So the two surviving roommates are like, oh my god, like this is weird, why is the door open? And maybe roommate A was like, oh yeah, like yesterday I saw something weird. Or something happened. I don't know. Someone or a few friends came over to the house allegedly and allegedly someone or a few people had gone into Ethan and Zena's room and became hysterical, which checks out who wouldn't be. So we do know the 911 call was placed

from one of the roommate's cell phones and that someone else placed the call. Now, according to some sources, the roommates were so distraught that they fainted. Other sources suggest that the operator couldn't even understand what was being said because of how hysterical they were. So they dispatched officers just as emergency protocol.

According to some sources, when police showed up there was a small crowd of people gathered in front of the house. Everyone went completely silent when they arrived, and just as the cops were about to enter the home, someone in the crowd uttered one word, dead. It's reported that right when the police opened the door, they registered the overwhelming stench of blood. The police went in through the main door on the first floor. They were led up to the second floor to Zainas bedroom. They found Zainas body covered in stab wounds as well as Ethan's body in her room. In Kalee's room, they found Kalee and Maddie dead in Kalee's bed.

But there was something else next to them on the bed. A tan leather knife sheath So it's essentially a leather cover for a knife and Remember the murder weapon was a fixed blade knife which meant that it's not a kitchen knife But it's more like a hunting knife. It doesn't fold essentially is what it means. It's fixed in place and the sheath was left the sheath had the words K.A. The sheath had the words Ka-bar and USMC on there as well as the United States Marine Corps Eagle Globe and Anchor insignia stamped on it.

Now this is what would ultimately lead to the arrest of Brian Cobrager because forensic analysis recovered a single male source of DNA on this knife sheath. And for the record, Brian was never in the Marines or in the US Army, but it wouldn't have been difficult to purchase the sheath online. It was left behind, which is so weird. I think the speculation is that Brian Cobrager obviously, if he had done this because legally, we can't say that he did yet, But allegedly, if he had done this, he seems to fit the profile of ramping up to become a serial killer or like a mass murderer. But maybe in the first incident, he didn't start slowly. He was in, I guess, a rush and I don't know.

You know, I think a lot of people give him a lot more credit for being smart because he's a criminology PhD student, but I don't know if he's really that intelligent. Nobody really knows. On top of that, a shoe print was recovered. The print had these diamond shapes on it, almost kind of like the shape of vans, the shoe underneath,

and it was just found outside Rumeide's bedroom, possibly left by the killer as he walked inches away from Rumeide. As part of the investigation, the police start going through the CCTV cameras around the neighborhood. One car that stood out to them was the 2015 white Hyundai Alontera that we were talking about in part 1.

It caught their attention for a few reasons. For 1, it's 4 a.m. on a residential area. Not that many cars were on the road. The other cars that were spotted, the police tracked them down, interviewed the owners, they were cleared. But the Hyundai remained unaccounted for. The car was actually caught on multiple surveillance clips in the area, and it was just cruising around

from 3.30 a.m., and then 4.20 a.m. it was caught again, which would have been around the time after the murders. Now here's the thing, the front license plates of this vehicle seemed missing. This is important later. Idaho is a state where front license plates are required. Every state is different, but Idaho requires it, and this car did not have one. The car's movements were also very strange.

The car circled the neighborhood a few times, but it always came back to Kim Road. At one point, the car tried to unsuccessfully park right in front of the house, on 1122 Kim Road, and then it drove away, circled a few streets and then came back near the house. The vehicle was last seen on cameras at 4.20am driving away from the house and at a high speed, like straight up speeding, which again, very suspicious. So in the weeks following the murders, police put out a bulletin for the Hyundai and they believe that this car was the key to solving the puzzle. It's like their main lead. It's going to be easier to find that car than run the data on the sheath, which they did.

But the killer wasn't in the system. And DNA is useless unless you have something to compare it to. So the car is where they put a lot of their energy and focus. November 25, Moscow police asked all the local law enforcement agencies to be on the lookout for a white-hound diallandra in the area. And if you remember, Moscow is a border town. So they asked a lot of local law enforcement in Washington, just nine miles away. And a lot of them were in this little town called Pullman Washington.

Can you guess what's there? WSU. We're Brian Cobrager, was a criminology graduate student. So Washington Police were alerted about the Hyundai. They decided to run the description of the vehicle against their Washington State University student database. They found that there was a white Hyundai Alontera registered to a student named Brian Coburger.

And when they looked at his address, they found out that he had lived not too far from the crime scene. He fit the general description that the roommate he gave. And, you know, he's six feet tall, weighs 185 pounds, bushy eyebrows, and his car had Pennsylvania license plates. Records showed that he was pulled over two months prior to the murders for driving around without a front license plate. A white Hyundai missing a front license plate, Ring of Bell.

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not available in all states or situations prices vary based on how you buy. Why would you break into these apartments? For money, for drugs, whatever was in there. Why aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? No, who's going to catch us? What a police. It was the height of the crack era. And instead of locking up drug dealers, some New York City cops had become them. I would suit up in my uniform and we're

going to want some drug dealers. And I know how to do it really well. This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal in NYPD history and the investigation that uncovered it all. Did you consider yourself a rat? 100%. I saved my soul just like everybody else does.

Listen to and follow the set, an Odyssey originals documentary podcast series, available now in the Odyssey app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. I'm not a big guy, man, but I love being a dirty mother f***er. Another interesting thing to notice that after the murder, as Brian was pulled over by the police

who were keeping an eye out on him, but they made it seem like they were doing routine stops. But they already knew who he was, they knew that he was their main lead. This was kind of their way of like, feeling it out essentially. Anyway, he was pulled over. And even though his plates didn't expire until end of November, he had updated his license plates to Washington license plates.

So during the murders, it's likely that he had the Pennsylvania license plates. And then immediately after, he switched them to Washington license plates. Okay, as a disguise. Seems like it, like some way to switch it up, which side note, Brian was involved in these routine stops with his dad in the car. And a lot of people started speculating that his dad must have known about what was going on. So essentially, his dad had flown all the way from Pennsylvania to Washington, and they were going to drive all the way to Pennsylvania in Brian's car for the holidays Because holiday break, right? So they're doing like a cross-country drive from Washington to Pennsylvania and Yeah, people were like why would his dad fly in unless something happened?

But this really does seem to be like a pre-planned Cross-country drive whether it was premeditated on Brian's part to, I don't know, I don't know why, but as of right now we have no evidence that his father was involved at all. In fact, if you look at the police recordings of the dash camera recordings in the traffic stop, Brian seems to be, I wouldn't say he's on edge because I really don't want to be one of those hindsight people that's like, oh, look at him, he's so guilty. He seems a little more alert, but wouldn't you be when the cops are pulling you over? But his father seems completely normal.

In fact, he seems almost friendly and relaxed with the police. His demeanor doesn't seem in any way as if a father who had just known that his son had committed this horrible crime, in my opinion. So he drove all the way from Washington to Pennsylvania in his Whitehound, Ilawn Tra, and at this point FBI had already been following him. They meet up with him in Pennsylvania and by meet up, I mean they're straight up just stalking him, and it was outside of his parents' house on December 27th of 2022, the FBI dug through the trash, which they can do without a search warrant. They ran any extracted DNA that could

find in the trash against the DNA that they found on the sheath and to be specific. Forensic experts concluded that there was a 99.998% likelihood that the DNA found in the trash belonged to the father of the person whose DNA was found on the sheath. To be more specific. Oh, they found the father's DNA, not his DNA. That means there's only a 0.002% chance that Brian's dad is not the father of the DNA found on the knife sheath. Those are some incredibly almost certain knots. Now do you guys remember that Reddit post that we brought up in part one?

Yes. The one where allegedly Brian had gone on Reddit to look for potential research subjects. He was asking for participants to provide information to, and I quote, understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision making when committing a crime. That Reddit post has since been deleted, but it was mentioned in the affidavit, which is fascinating. I understand when people read too much into things on the internet, it can be blown out of proportion, but I think it's somewhat telling that the affidavit mentions this reddit post, because that means the investigators believe that it's relevant to some degree,

and they believe with some certainty that this post was indeed made by Brian Cobrager. So based on all this evidence, the affidavit was presented to a judge on December 29th of 2022, and Brian was arrested in his family home December 30th. Now, we've kind of filled in the blanks, at least to a degree, and that's all the information that we know so far from the Avedevid, but there's more. An anonymous law enforcement officer told CNN that days leading up to Brian's arrest, Brian was seen cleaning his car, inside and out not missing a single inch it seemed. He was spotted wearing surgical gloves. At 4 a.m. putting trash in the neighbor's trash bins. The authorities recovered that trash and took it to their lab. I don't think it's clear what was in that trash.

A few days later, the co-burger house was swatted, they broke down the co-burgers front door and arrested Brian. Kaylee's father Steve, he spoke with CNN, and after Brian's arrest and he said, he didn't have the swagger that I think he thought he was going to have. He looked shocked, scared, unprepared. It seemed like he didn't realize what he had gotten himself into, and his world was now crumbling around him. Now that's not verbatim but that's pretty much how Steve described but just shortened down for length. Steve did say seeing Brian and person was this intense moment. He felt overwhelming anger and he wanted Brian to look him in the eye. But Brian wouldn't give him that. Steve wanted to look Brian in the eye because I think, you know, the way he was saying it is that he wanted to see

an innocent man. Maybe this is not the one. But because Brian think, you know, the way he was saying it is that he wanted to see an innocent man. Maybe this is not the one. But because Brian was, you know, he was claiming shock and innocence, but the fact that Brian didn't even meet his eyes, that gave Steve the answers that he thought he wanted, is very telling. He said, he knows I want him to look me in the eye. And he didn't. He didn't give me that opportunity.

He scared to look me in the eye. And, you know, he's starting to understand what's about to happen to him. He picked the wrong family. We're not scared of conflicts. We're not running. We're coming at him. You had the chance to see Coburger. I wanted him to look me in the eye.

He knows I wanted him to look in the eye. He didn't give me that opportunity when he was back in his home state, Pennsylvania. He did turn around and look for his parents and not me. He didn't give me that. So I think he's understands that I'm not going to see something in his eyes that I want to see, you know, I want to see an innocent man, but I feel like he's scared to look at me in the eyes and start to understand what's about to happen to him. Big the wrong family. Not scared of a conflict and we're not scared. We're not running. We're coming at him. Steve says

that Brian was hunting the girls though. He said what nobody understands exactly why but he was stalking them. He was hunting them. He was a person looking for an opportunity and it just happened to be that house. And that's hard to take in. Steve's heart broke at the fact that his daughter had her phone right next to her. And she couldn't call 911. He said, these were just girls that went to sleep that night and you know, a coward, a hunter went out and picked his little opponent. That was girls. That's probably why this house was targeted.

None of these girls deserve this. The real problem we have is we have an individual that thought it was okay to attack other human beings. That's what I'm going to focus on. I'd be a little bit surprised if there wasn't a clear touch point that would suggest that he was interested in one or two of the people more than he was in the others, meaning that the intended victims were maybe one or two of the people more than he was in the others, meaning that the intended victims were maybe one or two. Subrine was arrested. His parents released his statement as well, and it didn't really say much just that they support him as their son, but their heart's break for the four families involved, and they respect privacy at this time. And they also want to promote his presumption

of innocence and to approve in guilty, because that's how the legal system does work. And now, let's take a journey down the dark winding road of theories that the internet has come up with in regards to this case. There is another Reddit account, separate from the one about the research study that was mentioned in the affidavit. This one was not mentioned in the affidavit. This is pure, pure speculation in theory. There was a Reddit account called Inside Looking. A lot of people on the internet speculate that this account belonged to Brian Coburger. Here are the reasons why.

The account has been deleted since, but nothing truly dies on the internet. The user Inside Looking reportedly created their Reddit account November 22nd, which some people believe is a reference to 1122 King Road. November 22nd, 1122. But that's not the reason why they think that this is Brian Cobrager. Whoever was behind the account, Ryan or not, they definitely need to talk to somebody, like a therapist. The user was posting and commenting about the Idaho killings non-stop.

It seemed like it's all they could talk about seemingly for hours, day in, day out. The user would arrogantly correct other users' facts and speculations as if inside looking had inside information. For a month, the user was feverishly active, and then crickets. There was no more activity, which people found to be very suspicious because the account went silent after the time that Brian was arrested. It seemed like inside looking had very similar theories to what the internet was starting to piece together, so the connection in hindsight.

So this is what the internet came up with after Brian was arrested. Whether these are connecting the dots that make sense, or it doesn't mean anything is yet to be proven, but the dots were, Madden and Zayna worked at the same Greek restaurant, and apparently they served vegan food. Brian Cobrager was an avid vegan, perhaps he went there, saw these beautiful waitresses, and he started to stalk them from that moment forward. Maybe he went a few times, and gradually he became obsessed with them, or one, or both of them, but before the internet put this theory together, because they didn't have Brian's

piece of the puzzle yet, inside looking was already commenting things like that. They wrote, likely X and M were the targets. Same work, same sorority, same house, same majors, different floors. So meaning the two rooms that were targeted, Zena was in one, Maddie was in one. Someone posted dumb luck. As anyone considered that this perpetrator has just been lucky this far, most of the lack of evidence, you know, is due to his premeditated and methodical nature, but it could just be wrong because there's actually lots of evidence.

Or maybe it's simply due to the fact that there was a lot of lucky circumstances for him. The typical profile of a socially awkward man with an explosive and impulsive temper for me just doesn't seem to be compatible with one that would be a chrono mastermind. So basically saying that this person that was responsible for the Idaho murders is just lucky. And inside looking commented half of all murders go unsolved. And someone commented to that, you did it for sure. There are more examples of inside looking being arrogant and cocky as if they have more knowledge about the case than the general public. They would post something and someone would hit them with a, well, you don't know that

for sure. And they would write, yeah, I do. Another post, someone said, how will this go down? Will they announce a suspect or will the first time we hear about it be a full blown arrest? Inside looking posted, they'll find the car first. Suspect will be announced and then the manhunt begins. Which is wild because Inside Looking was one of the first people to speculate the importance of a car because this was before the police announced a bulletin for the Hyundai Alantra. Inside Looking also had an obsession with tire marks and possible footprints that were found at the scene.

Now this one is very creepy. Someone posted that the killer could have sat and waited in the car for a while till the lights were off in the house before they entered. Inside looking commented, why waste an hour to see if the lights will go out when you can just pull up and the lights are already out? Then they posted another theory. They wrote, speculation, car pulled up to the residence. Killer entered and exited the sliding door. Killing's took place approximately 3.20am to 3.40am. One killer, one fixed blade knife, no injuries. To the killer, they mean. Someone commented, I would say the killer parked in the back lot behind the house and went through the back.

They commented, agreed. Inside looking also speculated that the killer left via the sliding glass door and the vehicle left skid marks upon exit. So listen, yeah, it could just be a random Reddit user that's just way too invested, but to be feverishly obsessed with this case, but then just to stop, I don't know where is weird. When did it start though? Around Brian Cobrager's rest. But maybe it's just they lost interest. Maybe there's one of the, there are personality types where they become obsessed with something and then they lose interest once the it's resolved or it looks like it's gonna to get resolved, but I don't know, it's

weird. Then the theories get a little bit wilder. So a little bit before the murders, three weeks to be exact. A poor 12-year-old dog was found skinned head to dough in Moscow, Idaho. A lot of people suspect that Brian was involved because the connection between animal abuse and murders is a pretty tight jump. But the police stated that the crimes are unrelated, which I don't know if that's more unnerving or less.

There's another theory that was fueled because of a journalist tweets regarding this case. Started on Twitter, a journalist named Brian Enten tweeted that Brian had asked the police if anyone else had been arrested, right after he was arrested. Which either could be indication that he's trying to tap into his knowledge of the criminal justice system, see if he's the only suspect. Maybe that could indicate how strong the evidence was that they had on him, or it could hint to the fact that there were others involved. But we don't even know if this is true, as of right now.

It's just a theory. We can't mention theories without mentioning Papa Roger. So Papa Roger is a Facebook account that has been widely speculated to be Brian Cobrager's account. The reason is the nature of the posts, the comments, the responses. It's very similar to inside looking Reddit's account. And people think that maybe both of them were Brian because he's trying to get information of everybody's theories on all these different platforms. Both accounts have this holier than the smarter than the attitude. And Papa Rogers, a lot of people think that Brian and the Papa Rogers profile picture look very similar.

Which I don't know about that one, that kind of gives me like internal biases that play, right? But I will say that Papa Rogers' posts are very alarming. Papa Rogers posted, as the evidence is released, the murder weapon has been consistent with the large fixed blade knife. That leads me to believe that they found the sheath. This evidence was released prior to autopsies. Now, the importance of this post is that Papa Rogers predicted that there would be a sheath left at the scene a whole month before Brian was arrested based on the DNA found on the sheath.

The reason that people think this is strange is because nobody even thought about the possibility of a knife sheath. In fact there was a whole discussion on the comments of Paparajar's posts where users were like, well why would the killer carry a sheath and leave it? And Paparajar said, who would carry a large exposed knife? Someone even asked Paparajar's why he communicates like a serial killer because they had gotten into an argument and yeah Papa Rogers was really strange in the way he interacted with his count Instead of posting just theories or speculations

He almost talked to people as if they were his students like a teacher would say like a TA would talk to students Which a lot of people did say that Brian was very patron would say, like a TA would talk to students, which a lot of people did say that Brian was very patronizing when he was a TA. But anyway, Papa Rogers would post questions like, a knife is a very risky weapon if you know that you're going to murder four people. Do we think that the killer had another weapon, such as a stun gun or another knife, or did they not know what they would encounter? Ethan didn't live at the crime scene. Very possible, the killer didn't know he was there. Thoughts? Did the killer stop at four victims

out of exhaustion, convenience or lack of knowledge? You know, like with the AI tool recently, chat GPD and all that, they should be able to just gather the text message that they sent out on Reddit or on Facebook and just do a analysis on it and compare to their usual typing. Cause everybody types and talks in certain ways.

Yeah, so both of them, one thing that people theorists did point out was that pop-a-rogers and the Reddit account, they used one abbreviation, which was IMO, they kept using IMO, and a lot of Gen Z said that nobody uses that, but then millennials are like, we use that. Yeah, yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying. Two crossed reference. Exactly. Once you gather enough data, you can easily say, oh, there is a good 70% chance that this matches or this is a good 90% chance. This is the same.

Yeah. Just to get some more clues. Just to see if Papa Rogers and this person are the same. Not saying that these are Brian co-workers, Just to see if they're worthy of investigation. Yeah. So people were unsettled by it. Someone straight up asked pop-a-rogers, do you drive a white hand diallantra asking for the public?

And pop-a-rogers responded just one word, flattering. Now the theory becomes more confusing when some people believe inside looking on Reddit and pop-a-rogers on Facebook could not be the same person. Because inside looking was passionate that there was no sexual motive in the crimes. Meanwhile, pop-a-rogers was adamant that there was a sexual motive. But I guess if both accounts were Brian Cobrager,

which I'm not saying that they were, or I'm not even saying that I believe in any of these speculations, but for the sake of the argument, if they were Brian, I guess he could be attempting to throw people off. Make a few wrong guesses so that people would get off your back because the other theories were very consistent between the two accounts. Regardless, the police have stated that there

was no evidence of sexual violence. Those are the theories that I thought we could talk about just to mention. There are a lot more theories online. Like, there's a theory that Brian's mom had written an article about Ted Bundy when Ted Bundy was at the height of his crimes and had been arrested, and she did not believe in the death penalty for Ted Bundy. Like, there's so many of these going around, and I don't really know if that's important to the case at all. I just thought that these reddit accounts could be important maybe because it just indicates that he had inside knowledge and it could be proven, it could be used to prove his guilt if these are him, whereas

maybe his mom talking about Ted Bundy is not really that relevant. It's a few days later and as I was about to post new updates were released so this is the update to the update. So we're back. And this time it's an update that I don't think that many of us were even expecting. Police records were expected to be kept mostly under wraps to protect, I don't know, the integrity of the investigation as well as Brian's right to a fair trial and to protect the victims. So it was kind of a surprise, I would say, when authorities unsealed Brian's search warrant. So the warrant itself is like 49 pages long. It's a lot. But most of it is just what was already

presented in the probable cause of David. So it's kind of like a repeat. We know that Brian's family home in Pennsylvania, where he was arrested, that whole place was searched. But this search warrant pertains to his apartment in Poman, Washington. This is where we can assume there is a lot more evidence in this location. Being that right after the murders, if Brian was the one committing them, he would have rushed home.

So because the killer would likely have been covered in blood, the crime scene was drenched in blood. And according to blood spatter experts, there was what they call cast off blood at the crime scene was drenched in blood, and according to blood spatter experts, there was what they call cast-off blood at the crime scene. That basically means that blood's probably spattered from a moving object, typically a human, possibly the killer, moving away from room to room. This led investigators to believe

that the killer had gotten blood on him or herself. So the search warrant includes a list of seized items. One type nitrate black glove, Walmart receipt with one dickies tag, Marshall's receipts, dust container from a Bissel power force vacuum, so like the vacuum dust part, eight possible hairs, a fire stick with a cord and a plug, so kind of like an Apple TV but Amazon version. One possible animal hair strand, four different possible hair strands.

So these I'm assuming they found separately like just one hair strand at a time. They also seized his computer tower. They also found a collection of dark red spots. Some of them were on an un-cased pillow, and some of them were on a mattress cover. So the unceiling of the warrant tells us what they took from Brian Koberger's residence in Washington, but it doesn't tell us what the connection is of these items to the murder or even if there are connections to the items and the murder, but we can speculate to a degree. We can maybe speculate that the Walmart and Marshalls receipts contained possibly incriminating purchases. we can speculate to a degree. We can maybe speculate that the Walmart and Marshalls receipts contained possibly incriminating purchases. We can speculate that the possible

hair strands may have come from the victims, and potentially that strand of animal hair might have been from Kaylee's dog Murphy. The dark red spots could potentially be blood. Now keep in mind, we don't know for sure if these stains are blood, or even whose blood is it, but investigators did not recover a murder weapon. It seems like they were interested in getting a hold of all of Brian's electronic devices, and the unceiling of the warrant came around the same time that People Magazine released an article that caused a lot of star. The unceiling of the document literally came the next day.

So people magazine spoke with a source who is allegedly in a quote, investigator familiar with this case. Whether that means he's on this case, whether that means he has a friend that's on this case, we don't know. And that source told people magazine that Brian Koeberger had been DMing one of the victims.

The source said he's slid into one of the girl's DMs several times, but she did not respond. Basically, it was just him saying, hey, how are you? And he did it over and over and over again. There's no way of verifying this information till the police release any more updates or more likely when the trial begins. So, take it with a grain of salt. But people magazine said that they had seen Brian Coburgers account on Instagram before it was deleted and he had been following Kaylee, Maddie, and Zena. Allegedly, people magazine said that they saw no

public interaction between any of them. So you're like, okay, do they know each other or not? Like what's going on? That's kind of still up in the air. People hints that none of the girls followed Brian Cobrager back. They even suggest that whoever he was messaging probably didn't even see the messages he was sending. It most likely went to a separate inbox that you have on Instagram, you know? The message request inbox.

But that is not to be proven yet. I mean, none of this is proven, but the source goes on to say that there is no indication that Brian was frustrated at any lack of response, but he was quote definitely persistent. So now the theories continue. It's speculated that the girl that he was messaging was Maddie. So if you remember, Maddie and Zaina worked at the Greek restaurant, and the theory was that Brian Coberger was a patron at this Greek restaurant and that's how he ran into them. Well, Maddie was bifurred the most active on Instagram of all the

victims so maybe he was trying to message her. Now it's further speculated because Maddie is a beautiful girl inside and out that she might have had a lot of people in her messages and she might have never even come across Brian's message. Not that it changes anything, but it seems likely that the girls may not have even known who Bryan Coperger was, or known his existence to a degree that they thought was significant. Maybe it was, oh, that's just the regular at the restaurant. But again, this is all speculation. They probably didn't even know that he was following them on Instagram. They probably didn't know that he was actively, allegedly trying to contact them. A former FBI investigator told the New York Post,

and this is a wild, wild theory. Okay, bear with me. The former FBI investigator believes that Brian may have had an in-cell complex. And this is becoming a more and more popular theory, but in-cell is short for involuntary celibate. We've talked about some cases involving in-cell culture and it's kind of wild. Think misogynist, think men's right activists. Their whole idea is that women have too much power in the world now and they ruin men's lives

by rejecting them. They typically blame women and society for their lack of romantic success or even career success. They're not necessarily like the most self-aware group out there, but I do wanna say that insults are not prone to violence, per se. They are a pretty violent group in the sense

that there have been a lot of insults committing a lot of heinous crimes, but being an insult does not equal being a violent person. Sometimes they can, but it's just notcell does not equal being a violent person. Sometimes they can, but it's just not a rule. That's what I'm saying. I guess I hope that makes sense. But there have been some notable terrifying in-cell cases. An in-cell in 2020 was rushed to the emergency room, and he was missing a hand. And he was missing a bunch of fingers on his other hand. And the doctors in the yard trying to find out like what's going on, why are you missing a hand. And he was missing a bunch of fingers on his other hand. And the doctors in the yard trying to find out

like what's going on, why are you missing a freaking limb, like you need to tell us because this is not normal. You don't just come in here, like I have a stomach ache, by the way my hand is missing. The doctors found out that he was trying to build a bomb to quote, kill hot cheerleaders. There was another in-sell who is recently in the news. I can do a

whole case on him if you're interested, but he was recently apprehended for killing five people, including his mother and a three-year-old girl. He was obsessed with in-sell culture or subculture. He ran to it about how he had been called fat recently, which agreed that is not a nice thing to call anyone, but he said his ego was hurt, and that is why in why in cells are more prone to either killing themselves or killing other people. He said he hated his lack of success at dating and he felt deep rooted self hatred, even in his family he felt like a black sheep. On forums he described himself as a virgin that is fat and ugly.

Now what's interesting is that these in cells, they almost have a god that they worship. And this is actually going to be the main episode for Rotten Mango, this upcoming Wednesday, so please give that a listen when it releases. But it's Elliot Roger is the in-cell god, like the king of the in-cells. Which side note, this kind of ties into Papa Roger? Elliot Roger, Papa Roger. Okay. Anyway, this one is so intense, but he's basically the king because he had this really weird childhood. His dad was a filmmaker that worked on the Hunger Games.

But anyway, Deep Dive is gonna be on Rotten Mango. But Elliott wrote a 100,000 word manifesto, which was basically an autobiography talking about how he felt wronged in life. He felt all these injustices. He was bullied. He felt like women weren't attracted to him and they weren't giving him the sex that he felt he deserved. He wished that all women could be thrown into concentration camps. And he wanted to watch them all starve to death.

And he said it would be fun to watch women die. He proclaimed he would break into, and they quote, the hottest sorority and kill all the quote dumb blondes. He also had a deep rooted hatred for Asian men. So yeah, is a twisted mind, but he went on a killing spree, and the Insel community has deemed him the killer virgin, or they call him the supreme gentleman, aka the in-cell king. They idolize him, which is just weird. So a lot of people speculate Papa Rogers was named after Elliot Rogers

because it's all spelled with R-O-D-G-E-R-S versus R-O-G-E-R-S and I don't know, coupled with this random allegation that Brian was an in-sell, people are putting two and two together, theorizing that Brian created the Papa Rogers Facebook account, named it after Elliot Rogers because he's an in-sell. But I say random allegation, because it doesn't seem like the former FBI investigator

that spoke with the media had any insight knowledge of this case. So it seems like he's purely speculating from the outside. And like, how do you just know that someone's an in-sell? So it's very random. Take it with a whole container of salt. But the former FBI agent continued. The murderers have been an effort to assert some type of dominance. I believe a continued stabbing of a victim indicates an uncontrollable rage and some

extreme anger. I think he may have developed a sort of in-sell complex. Now the only reason that I'm including this is because some witness statements have come out to support the in-sell theory. Again, I'm not saying that it's true, but just food for thought. According to Brian's former classmates, Brian was allegedly bullied in middle school. Remember how I said that he was bullied for being overweight? Well witnesses came forward to say that he was practically tortured. Just tortured and bullied non-stop. We don't know how far the bullying went, but it seems like Brian did not take it well. An anonymous Reddit user wrote about knowing Brian in middle school, excuse me, which said note, this reddit post was verified by Reddit mods, which means that the poster has to include some sort of proof privately to a Reddit moderator that they actually knew Brian. So in this case, I'm assuming it's probably some sort of yearbook photo or something of

the likes would be verification. So this post said, I knew Brian at Pleasant Valley Intermediate School. He was overweight when we were short term friends. He was bullied a lot, socially awkward. He also had anger issues. I definitely got the impression that he was potentially on the autism spectrum and in parentheses. I am autistic myself, so I know it when I see it. Our friendship ended after he got into a physical fight with me. He lost weight after going to high school, probably close to a hundred pounds of weight loss, hence why he looks a lot older, he frequented a boxing gym during his weight loss. Friends from high school said he got super aggressive after losing weight.

He had trouble making friends when we were acquainted. His mom was a staff member at the middle school. She was very sweet. I hope she's innocent in all of this because she was very nice to me and the other students. Feel free to ask me any questions, but I don't know beyond this. Shortly after Brian was arrested, Kim Kennelly, a former classmate, contacted the FBI with some interesting information. Kim went to middle school with Brian, and she said the Brian had a crush on her. Yeah, so she was this pretty blonde cheerleader at the time, very popular. Meanwhile, Brian was kind of, and I quote, chubby and awkward, well apparently Kim would have these love letters shoved into her locker and it was from Brian.

And he would just kind of, he would say things that weren't very normal to say in middle school, like he would say things like, okay, my think you're so, so very pretty. And I guess Kim was just thrown off and, you know, being young, she would just say, oh my god, leave me alone. Kim's mom said, Kim never gave him the time of day. When kids are little, they're mean. They don't say, oh god, thank you, but no thanks. So it seems like Bryan was rejected, rejected, quite frequently growing up by women, which I guess in some way kind of in some people's minds support the in-self theory.

A lot of internet sloughs have pointed out that Kim was a conventionally attractive blonde girl, and both Kaylee and Maddie were very conventionally attractive blondes. So Kim's rejection allegedly broke Brian's heart, but also allegedly she wasn't the only cheerleader that made fun of him. According to another anonymous classmate, they said that there was a whole click of all the popular girls at school, and they would just all bully him.

They would all torture him. According to former classmates, Brian went to high school and he was like, I'm gonna lose all this weight so I don't get bullied ever again. He starts kickboxing, going on a very strict diet. Eventually, he would become a very passionate vegan. Sources close to him said that he was a little, quote,

OCD about it. Even insisting, remember, his parents buy new pots and pans to cook his meals. He didn't want any animal byproducts contaminating his food. He didn't care if they washed their pots and pans. Remember how earlier we talked about the heroin allegation? It seems like he might have allegedly started using heroin to help lose weight,

and then he became addicted in the process, but he did eventually quit. So Brian went for being overweight to borderline underweight and around that time many former classmates said that his entire personality changed. He became much more aggressive, more obsessed with becoming the cool kid that bullied others.

He was slowly transitioning from the bullied to the bully. Now let's talk about visual snow. Between 2009 and 2015, when Brian was about 15 to 18 years old, he allegedly made a series of posts on an online forum that is dedicated to talking about visual snow. And it's a ledge that he made a few posts, which side note, visual snow syndrome is a disorder that basically causes you to see static. Like everything you see almost looks like

pixelated TV static. Some people describe it as seeing things in a snow globe that have been shaken up. So you see the snow falling down everywhere. The lights kind of blur into these like pixels It's very different from a stigmatism. It's not like that at all like it's a it's a life-changing syndrome There are flickering dots in your field of vision as well It's a really rare phenomenon and scientists aren't even sure what causes visual snow

They think that it's most likely hyperactivity in the area of the brain that's responsible for visual processing, but they don't know how you became hyperactive there. It's a chronic condition. Usually if you have visual snow, you might be more prone to migraines, depression, anxiety, and allegedly Brian had this condition. We have no idea if this is true, and it's important to note that having this condition is in no way no way shape or form correlated with having a violent personality or being prone to aggression.

Now if this account on this forum that is believed to be Brian is him, that means he made 118 posts in the span of a few years. January 2011, the account posted. I have visual snow syndrome since 21st of 2009. Since then I have changed, mainly from the anxiety and sense of deriallization and hopelessness. And then a few months later, in a separate thread about the potential benefits of visual snow, the account commented, I have become very deep and determined on my goals. Visual snow made me smarter. But the month after the account posted, I have depression, no interest in activity,

constant thoughts of side, crazy thoughts, delusions of grandeur, anxiety, poor self-image, poor social skills, and in caps, no emotion. When I get home, I mean to my family. This started when visual snow did. I felt no emotion and along with the depersonalization I can say and do whatever I want with little remorse. And not too long after that the account posted. I have had this horrible depersonalization go on in my life for about two years. I often find myself making simple human interactions, but it's almost as if I'm playing a role playing game. As I hug my family, I look into their faces and I see nothing. It's like as if I'm playing a role playing game. As I hug my family, I look into their faces, and I see nothing.

It's like I'm looking at a video game, but less, I'm blank. I have no opinion, no emotion. I have nothing. It's as if the ringing in my ears and the fuzz in my vision is simply all the demons in my head mocking me. The last post of this account was in February of 2012, and they wrote,

I have just accepted my visual snow finally. I don't even feel the need to stay away from the forum. It doesn't scare me anymore. Anyone else come to terms? I feel like coming to terms could be a bad thing though. Studies do suggest that visual snow syndrome can cause depression, anxiety, and poor quality of sleep, but we don't know if this is Brian or if he had visual snow syndrome, but it's just speculated. poor quality of sleep, but we don't know if this is Brian or if he had visual snow syndrome, but it's just speculated. Now, later in 2016, a woman came forward, which came forward now, but this happened in 2016. She came forward with information that she had gone on a tender date with

Brian. And she said she wants to preface, she really does not know Brian well. Like, she's not a friend of Brian's, did not know, she knew him for like a day They only interacted during that one date So she really really wants to preface she does not know much about his personality or who he is It's just one date and it's kind of interesting So they met up to go to the movies and afterwards Brian brought Haley back to her dorm and she's thinking Okay, this guy's just gonna drop me off at my dorm But he invites himself inside and Haley started feeling weird, and she felt weird saying no,

so she's like, okay, maybe he's just gonna come in for like five minutes. So he comes in and they watched another movie on Netflix, per Brian's request. He's like, let's watch another movie. And throughout the movie, Brian made moves to touch Haley, but not in a sexual way,

but like to rub her shoulders and to try and tickle her. She was starting to get uncomfortable and she tried to ask him, why are you touching me? And allegedly he responded, I'm not, I'm not touching you. Which people thought was a weird response, because it's just kind of a weird response. So then Haley decided, you know, she's weirded out, she wants to excuse herself to use the restroom and he followed her to the bathroom. He didn't go inside but he stood

outside the door almost like a bodyguard, which she thought was so strange. Haley said that she was way too awkward to confront him, so she pretended to throw up. She starts making these like wretching noises like in the toilet. She said she did this because she really did not want to hang out with him anymore and she also didn't know how to get him to leave. But it worked. Side note, she clarified. She was not scared of him. She did not feel like he was gonna hurt her if she asked him to leave. She did not feel terrified of him. She said that she was just really socially awkward and hated confrontation. So it wasn't like I'm pretending to throw up because he's terrifying me. It's just like, oh God, like I'm so awkward

and I don't know how to tell him to leave. But it worked. She pretended to throw up nonstop. And finally, she got a text message from Brian that he said that he was gonna leave. And hour later, he texted her again on Tinder and said that she had really good and I quote, good birthing hips.

She never responded after that, because I mean, how do you even respond to that? There have also been theories about what led Brian to study criminology. Some former classmates said that Brian had been super sucked into cop shows ever since he was in high school. He reportedly had a dream of becoming a police officer, which there's a lot of becoming a police officer, which

there's a lot of theories about that, and to criminal justice courses seemingly towards his goal. I think it'll be interesting to find out more information on Brian's choice of criminology, because a popular theory is that Brian allegedly committed the Idaho murders to prove that committing a perfect crime was possible. Interestingly enough, some law enforcement experts even speculate that Brian have may have purposely left the infamous knife sheath behind on purpose. They theorized, you know, we've seen this with other killers. It's like they're calling card. Especially if they think they're smarter than everybody else, and he certainly does. You know, he had gloves, at least that's what's presumed. He had gloves. He tried to cover himself. He did something to dispose of the clothing from that night

He if he is in fact the killer then of course there is something that could have been a calling card and left there on purpose Another thing that kind of supports this theory is that the knife sheath remember I'd had all the US marine end-bums and insignias So maybe that's to throw off law enforcement that this guy's in the Marines, which is kind of not the smartest, but you get it. The law enforcement officers were interviewed by Dr. Phil, and one of them was a former FBI special agent by the name of Jonathan Gilliam, and they thought, or were they speculated, that maybe Brian had killed before. They said, if he and this is like a crazy speculation, and I don't

even know if it's an appropriate speculation, but a lot of people are talking about it, so I'm just gonna put it out there, but just please, it's a crazy speculation. They said that if he indeed is guilty of these murders, they said, and I quote, I think he's killed before, most likely. Not four people, but I think he's probably stalked and potentially killed woman before. If he's the killer, this viciousness, the brutality, and the butchering of these four individuals, I can't imagine this being his first time if he indeed is the killer. So they both agreed that even if this is Brian's first murder, allegedly, it wouldn't have been his first, quote, wrongdoing. Since people that are prone to committing senseless gruesome acts of violence usually

have tendencies to start with small animals or other things may be dabble in arson, so I don't know, I just think that these theories just make everything so much more unsettling. And it seems like we're not going to have answers for a while. And that is the update on the update. And please remember that whatever is on the internet, it's right now, it's just theories. Like nobody knows the motive. All anyone is doing is coming up with these theories

to try and make sense of something that is completely senseless. And I think theorizing about Brian, it's fine to a degree, I think personally, but when it comes think theorizing about Brian, it's fine to a degree, I think personally, but when it comes to theorizing about survivors and their intentions or why they did what or why they didn't do what or ex-boyfriends and what they did, I think that's very dangerous territory, so we should probably try to stay away from that. But what are your thoughts on this case?

And I will see you guys on Wednesday on Rotten Mingo for the Elliott Rogers episode. Please be safe. Bye.