Rotten Mango - #236: He Broke Up With Her - She Killed His Mom As Revenge (Part 2)

Episode Date: February 12, 2023

They said she did it. They said they had all the evidence but the victim’s sisters weren’t so sure. Detective V picked up his phone at the sheriff’s department, there was a woman on the other line. She informed him that her sister had died mysteriously from ingesting a heavily regulated toxin and she was certain she knew who did it. It was her brother-in-law. She warned the detective - “And if he did it, you’re never going to catch him.” “Why is that?” “Because I believe him to be brilliant.” Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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in all states or situations, prices vary based on how you buy. Betta Bing Betta Buh. Welcome to this week's mini-sode of Rotten Mango. I'm your host Stephanie Sue. Detective Van Namy speaking. How can I help you? Detective V had been working at the Sheriff's Department for like over 10 years, over a decade. He was used to investigating odd deaths, murders, suspicious accidents, all of that.

He was even used to getting phone calls from victims' families to give their two cents on what the hell was going on. He thought this was going to be similar. He had no idea what he was getting himself into. He got a call from a woman named Sharon. Sharon starts off by telling him that she had been sitting on this information for about a week. She had thought long and hard about whether or not to call, whether or not to get the investigators involved, but the more she thought about it, the more suspicious the whole thing was.

You see, Sharon's sister Mary had recently died. She had somehow ingested toxins that led to all of her vital organs failing. I mean, it didn't even make sense. The toxin was something called culchicine. It's very hard to get your hands on. There's no reason for Mary to have that on hand and then accidentally ingested. Sharon believed her sister Mary was murdered. Not only that, she thought her brother-in-law Bill,

Mary's husband, was the killer. These were things that investigators had heard before. The husband poisons the wife for whatever nefarious reason. In a fair, life insurance, marital differences, anger. This was something that they knew how to investigate. But Sharon said something that stopped Detective V in his tracks. She added,

if Bill the husband did it, you're never gonna catch him. Would a curious comment to make, why would you say something like that? She said, because I believe him to be brilliant. That is how the investigation into Mary Yoder's death was opened at the Sheriff's Office.

As always, full show notes are available at RottenMinglePotCast.com. This is the part, too. There's a ton of show notes in there. This case is really... I don't want to say fascinating, but it's different in this sense that depending on which show note you click, your opinion on the case might completely change. You might suddenly start questioning whether or not you think someone is guilty. And I think the heartbreaking thing is,

the murder has not only taken away a life, a life that was filled with optimism and compassion and patience, but it's completely divided a family. The victim's own sisters are divided on who they believe is the real killer. Some of them are even standing behind the person in jail that has been sentenced to the murder

Which side note I've seen some online discourse about these sisters the victim sisters And sometimes I get a bad rep for sticking behind the convicted killer But I feel like if they feel that strongly this person is innocent What does that mean? I just I find myself asking that a lot like why why is that exactly? There must be something oh, there's a lot. Wow, like, why, why is that? Exactly. There must be something. Oh, there's a lot of reasons. It's weird. So with that being said, I'm going to try to present both parts

and then give my personal opinion at the end. But the first episode and part of this episode is still going to be from the side of the arguments of the prosecutor and the yoder. So Bill Yoder, Adam Yoder, Leona Yoder, these are Mary's husband and kids. Please listen to the end to get the other side because who knows? Maybe your whole opinion on this case completely changes.

Also take a look at the show notes. Come to your own conclusions or be puzzled and confused with me because for the life of me, I cannot even figure out what to believe anymore. Everything is so twisted. And it feels like every piece of evidence and information is manipulated to fit one story or the other. Every single piece of evidence in this case can be changed just to tiny little bit with a little bit of a different perspective. Suddenly you're like, oh, that person's guilty. Suddenly you're like, that person's innocent. It's crazy. So without being said, let's get into it.

To recap, please watch episode one, the last episode, or else none of this is going to make sense. But to recap, 61-year-old Mary Yoda was murdered. She was rushed to the hospital one day after work. She's a chiropractor at a practice that she runs with her husband Bill. Mary gets home. Feeling an upset stomach. She's not feeling good. That's putting it lightly. She's vomiting, shaking, diarrhea, it just seems like this nasty GI bug. Adam, their son, had recently had this nasty case of a stomach bug. He was hospitalized a couple months ago. So they're like, okay, well, this must be the same thing.

It lasts through the night. The next morning, 69-year-old husband, Bill, takes her to the hospital, and for a while, everyone thought she's going to be on the mend. She's recovering. But her condition takes a nose dive for the worst, and surprisingly, she dies just two days after being hospitalized. It just doesn't make sense. She's healthy, fit, active, a health conscious woman.

She was someone who was passionate about eating healthy. They autopsyed her body, and through incredible experience, gut and knowledge, they tested her for a very, very rare drug called Colchacine. Now, it's used to treat gout, which is like an inflammatory arthritis, basically, and it caused every cell in her body to commit suicide. Colchacine is so dangerous, even for the treatment of gout, it's a fine line between saving your life and killing you. This stuff is heavily regulated, incredibly fatal, just a couple dozen granules, tiny little granules,

enough to kill a full adult. And it seemed like everyone around Mary had a motive. Like who didn't have a motive? Bill, her husband, was accused of being all about Bill for constantly having affairs, for trying to grow a secret weed supercrop. It's alleged that he cared about himself and money, and that's it.

But what made Bill the most suspicious was the fact that he soon started dating Mary's sister right after the murder. Right after? Like six weeks after. Wow. And then you have Adam, Mary's son, he seems suspicious. It said that he had problems of his own,

like drinking, potentially a problem with Adderall. He claims that he took the Adderall to study and he would fall asleep after a night of drinking. He was a very gentle drunk, he said. But other sources that knew him said he was bellidrant and violent and very aggressive. We know that he wasn't financially doing well. He had tens of thousands of dollars in debt, so did he kill his mother, hoping to gain from it financially? Then you have Adam's girlfriend, Katie Conley. She works for Mary and Bill as their receptionist

at the family practice. And this is by far the most random link, but she's starting to become suspicious because she had given Adam these alpha brain supplements to help him study for finals. He takes a couple, claim DeGaude Superl, rushed to the hospital, had very similar symptoms to Mary. On top of that, Katie was kind of a toxic girlfriend.

Don't get me wrong, Adam was toxic too. He admitted to sleeping with his 16-year-old when he was 20. They were both in my humble opinion horrible partners. But Katie was accused of cheating on him with a mutual friend for a year, gaslighting him into thinking that he was just controlling and imagining things. And then when Adam broke up with her, she faked in near death experience, she told him that she had died, or she had almost died, during a miscarriage, and who was the father of the baby?

Adam. The reason this is believed to be false is we don't know if Katie miscarried, but we do know that there is no hospital record for her being admitted for blood loss during an ectopic pregnancy, which is what she claims she had. And she also accused Adam of a violent brutal rape. He said he was suspicious of her, because she had shown these pictures of her injuries of the rape, and none of them showed her face or any background that would indicate it was taken at her house, or even on the day of the alleged assault. Furthermore, when Katie reported the rape to the police, she never mentioned

these pictures, nor did she ever show them. She would later retract her allegations of rape, and that's not to say that it didn't happen, but it's just to say both of them were toxic, and these are the reasons that the prosecution would start looking at all of them, but particularly Katie. And soon after Mary's murder, a two-page anonymous letter was typed. It was sent to the medical examiner's office, accusing Adam Yoder of killing his mother. The anonymous writer knew the murder weapon before it was made public. They knew it was culture-seen. The only people who would have that knowledge were the family members of Mary Yoder, her close friends, or anybody else that they told, or the killer. The writer alleged that they knew this because Adam Yoder, Mary's son, told them that he killed his mother. They stated that Adam claimed he had more of the murder weapon

hidden in the front passenger seat floor of his jeep. The letter explained, Adam ordered the Colchizen online, put it in one of Mary's vitamins, Kielter. He was thinking he was going to get some sort of crazy payouts, some sort of insurance. And when he didn't, he started freaking out, panicking, regretting his decision. The anonymous writers stated that they were very scared because they believed Adam would strike again. So we have Mary's sister, personally calling the sheriff

to alert them of Mary's mysterious death to ask them, please, can you investigate and to mainly point the finger at Bill Yoder. Then we have this anonymous letter that seems to point the finger at the son, Adam Yoder. so the detectives, they just had a lot to get into. So this is when they start zeroing in, which side note, I'm going to go into a lot of the stories facts presented by the sheriff in prosecutor's office as well as the Yoder family, but stay tuned for the end to hear all of the rebuttles because there's so many rebuttles. So where was Adam after

this murder? What was going on with him? What was he doing? Was he behaving suspiciously like the anonymous letter alleged? And where's Katie? Because if you remember from episode one, she's the one that wrote the anonymous letter. Did he give her reason to believe that he had murdered his own mother?

Why were they doing even talking after they're in sane relationship? It just doesn't even make sense. So Adam said that he reached out to Katie during a moment of weakness while his mother was hospitalized. He just needed a shoulder to cry on, to lean on. And in this height of his emotional turmoil, they started to kind of rekindle things.

Was it a horrible decision? Yes. Katie called Adam broken, but she would also text him, I love you, Adam. And he would respond to it, and I love you. He confessed that he had thought about her constantly since they broke up. Katie explained how she was in heaven and hell. She begged Adam to help her be the person he needed right now,

to which he responded. Be the person you want to be, not the person I want you to be. So the two, they were back to being on and off. Adam would reach out to Katie when he needed support. Katie would reach out to make sure he was doing okay. And they would just bicker, fight, argue. It was draining. It was even draining for me to research.

And it's alleged that Katie had a boyfriend at this point in the timeline, like a separate boyfriend when Mary was murdered. So that's interesting, and it becomes pertinent later. After Adam found out that his mother died from poisoning, he's with Katie one day and he's driving. He's rushing to the family business. He's like, we gotta stop by the office.

Katie's confused, like, okay, like what's going on? Look, I just need to run and gather up anything that has any potential of having been ingested by my mother. Oh, so this is told from Adam's perspective. And he's saying, something was found in my mother system Adam and sis he never told Katie what was found in her system He never said the poison name. I'm not gonna lie to you. Culture scene is a pretty hard name to pronounce like I don't even know if I maybe I would I don't know He she just claimed that he said that she was poisoned and it was found in her system either way the two of them went to the office

Adam said he was scrambling to grab everything to bring it to the medical examiner's office so that they can find the source of the toxin. Maybe it's in some sort of filter, maybe it's in some sort of water, do they have to sue a water beverage company? Maybe the culture scene is some sort of cyanide poisoning that's happening like, you know, with the Tylenol, he's frantic, he's just thinking of anything. So he's scrambling around, but Adam remembered, Katie was not helpful at all.

He's gathering up stuff. In fact, he felt like rather than helping, she was keeping tabs on what he was going through. What he was looking at, almost hovering over him, watching him, this is what Adam is saying. Pete claims she would say things like, oh, don't look over there. Okay, why not?

Oh, there's just no chance. What? Wait, don't grab that. Your mother would never go over there. Okay, why not? Oh, there's just no chance. What? Wait, don't grab that. Your mother would never go over there. At one point, Adam claimed he was so frustrated. He screamed, look, I can't tell you what's going on just yet. I just need help gathering the stuff. I don't care how much of a long shot it is.

I just want to bring it over. Adam was confused and mad. He decided to just leave with Katie. He wanted to drop her off at home so he could come back to the office alone without her breathing down his neck. This is what he claimed, so that he could go through the office.

But later when he got back to the office alone, he called his sister to tell her what was going on. And she's like, immediately, pump the brakes. Whatever you're thinking, don't freaking do it. There's HIPAA violations written all over this. You touch patient records. That's a HIPof-violation. Yeah, you're not a chiropractor.

These are not your patients. You cannot touch those records. You're not employed, you cannot. But can the police go? Probably. Yeah, so he's like, okay, fine. I guess we'll let the police or dad do it later. And he left without bringing able to bring much to the Ami's office.

Now Adam was asked to come in to talk to the sheriff about his mother's murder. They get the note, the anonymous note, which side note the detective was leaning more towards Bill being the killer, and he thought if Bill was evil enough to kill his wife, maybe Bill sent the anonymous letter to frame his own son. On the other hand, maybe Adam's just guilty, but it was really easy to prove that Adam was an in- prove that Adam was an in-town when Mary was rushed to the hospital. And if she was fine the morning of July 20th and then not fine in the afternoon, most likely she had been poisoned, sometimes July 20th, Adam was nowhere

in town, so that was the problem. Now that's not to say he couldn't have poisoned something in advanced, that he knew that she was going to take while he was out of town, or maybe it was an Adam rebuilt, maybe it was someone else entirely. There was so much going on with the investigators. A lot of people believe that the interrogation starts in the interrogation room. It actually starts the moment you get a call from the police. They're asking you to come in and answer a few questions. Your voice, your hesitancy or your eagerness or your excitement, the inflection, your tone, everything is analyzed.

Detectively, like Tao Adams sounded actually. So, at that point, when they call you, can you come in? Could you ask for a lawyer at that point then? Yeah, you could come in with your lawyer, but a lot, you know, that really bothers me. It's, the police do have this mindset that if you are lowering up, you're guilty. I am a huge fan of lowering up. I think you should lower up the second a police officer is even talking to you.

Exactly. You can't trust what's going on there. So most people would say, don't lower up. If you have nothing guilty, if you have nothing to hide, but I would go in with an attorney. I'd be like, okay, let me talk to my attorney and see what I'm going on. But that also means you should know who to call

in that moment. Yeah. Like ahead of time. Like everybody should kind of know to some research. This is why Korean moms are like you got to have a doctor and a lawyer in the family. Okay. Okay. You know, your head hurts a little bit.

You got to call the doctor. The police are coming to get you. You got to call your lawyer brother. Yeah, but that's, I mean, I think that's a good tip. Good tip, yeah. I think so too. So Adam seemed eager, but not overly eager. He seemed just the right amount. He said he would be right in the detectives like this.

No stalling. No stalling to get a story straight. No stalling to get an attorney. Just, oh, I'm coming right now. These are good signs, but of course that doesn't mean that he's not guilty. If every investigator just went off their gut, we would all be in a ton of trouble, which is ironic because the investigators on this case get accused of doing just that later on. Detective V sits down with Adam. He didn't look too good.

The first impression that the detective's got from Adam was that he was socially awkward. And I quote, he came across a little odd. Yeah. After asking Adam the standard questions, the detective came out and just stated, look, we believe someone's trying to frame you for your mother's murder.

What? What do you mean? They analyzed his reaction and he seemed genuinely shocked. Genuinely, like, what are you talking about? Why would anyone frame me for my mother's death? This makes no sense. What are you talking about? We have an anonymous letter.

Can I see it? They showed him a small portion, so not the whole thing. that this makes no sense. What are you talking about? We have an anonymous letter. Can I see it? They showed him a small portion, so not the whole thing. They showed him the part where it stated explicitly that the drug would be found in the front passenger seat floor of his Jeep. He's like, what? How could this be happening? Adam, you know what the next question's gonna be?

Can we search your Jeep? I'd like to consult my attorney before you do that. So while Adam's Jeep stood outside the station, untouched, Adam waited for his attorney to arrive. His attorney basically encouraged him, let the police search your car. If you don't think it's going to be in there, there's no reason to not let them search their car because they're going to go get a warrant and then they're going to search your car. Just do it then.

So they all walk out, Adam stood with his attorney watching from a distance, smoking a cigarette, an officer snapped on his latex gloves, reached underneath the front passenger seat and to Adam's shock pulled out a tiny bottle of Colchising. Oh my gosh. Adam's eyes nearly popped out of his head. He defensively started promising, I've never seen that before. It was put there by somebody else. Please, you have to believe me.

I have never seen that before. The investigators oddly believed him. This part was puzzling to those who believe Adam is guilty because why do investigators believe he was framed? Any other situation, any other case where the murder weapon is found in the possession of somebody, that person, and if that person has motive to kill that person, they're going to jail. This is a full case slammed and done shut. They're not looking at anybody else. The investigators argued it would have been dumb for him to drive to the police station with that under his seat.

Sure, if he was keeping it under his seat to get rid of it, why would he not leave it at home before coming? Like, we called him. It's not like we came up randomly and were like, can we search your car? And why let them search his car? It just seemed so balzy. It seemed so blatant.

And Adam did not strike them as someone who could pull off something like this. No offense. They said, Adam seemed like a frantic type. He didn't seem like a planner. He didn't seem like the type to come up with a meticulous, elaborate murder, especially against somebody like his own mother.

If Adam had killed his mom, the detective suspected, it would have been a crime of passion and opportunity which this was not. So keep all of this in mind, because allegedly, there were other things in Adam's car that weren't talked about by the prosecutors, but it's pertinent. So Adam also offered up all of his electronics

to the police on a silver platter. Side note, Liana and Tammy, the other two kids, were questioned as well, and the police felt like they had nothing to do with Mary's murder. So the investigators, they start focusing on Bill. They said that they didn't scratch Adam off their list. It's just, maybe Bill has a higher chance of being guilty, they start focusing on Bill. They said that they didn't scratch Adam off their list. It's just, maybe Bill has a higher chance

of being guilty, they believed. And the fact that Bill was dating Kathleen, Mary's sister, so soon after her death, massive red flag. Bill Yoder claims he had no intention of dating Mary's sister after Mary died. Mary's other sisters would argue otherwise, but we'll get to that later.

He said, it was a moment of weakness, a moment of vulnerability, if you will. I was a shell of a man after Mary had left, you know, died, and I would just walk around the house and all I saw were her things, her gardening stuff, her watering pot, her favorite mug, the bed still smelled like her. There were traces of her everywhere, reminders, but she was gone. And during her wake, well, he didn't want to call it that. Mary would have hated that word. But during the day that everybody gathered at the Yoder House

to have a day of celebration for life. Kathleen Richmond, Mary's oldest sister, would walk in. Bill had never been that close with Kathleen. Mary had a lot of sisters. But Leona, his daughter, kept urging him, dad, go talk to Kathleen. Not in a romantic way, of course, but she felt that aunt Kathleen could help Bill.

You see, just a year ago, Kathleen had lost her husband. She knew that grief process all too well. They had a common pain. Bill asked Kathleen if they could get together some time to talk about everything. She said, sure, call me Bill. Not too long after, Bill went to Kathleen's place to meet up with her and he knew the

area she lived, but I guess he forgot what house, you know, it had been a long time. So he pulled over in the neighborhood and texted her, I think I passed by your house. Stand on your porch and wave me down, heart emoji. Now, those who are suspicious of Bill think that this is a very suspicious text. The heart emoji, the wave me down, it's weird, it's bizarre, it's almost like he knew the cops would be reading the message and he's trying to signal to them, I've never been to our house. Others said, if you know anyone that's almost 70, this is kind of how they text. Okay.

Like, maybe giving a house number isn't as effective because they can't see the numbers well. So, maybe just standing on the porch is easier and like waving sometimes I do that with like you know, you know Like home to me right I don't know but Bill's relationship with Kathleen would be a huge point of contention for Mary sisters who are on Katie side Later on and it's a whole thing So those who believe Bill is innocent they they said, even the heart emoji feels like a 70 year old thing to do. Like 70 year olds, their emoji usage is honestly jail.

Like, just, what? Yeah, sometimes the emoji usage, like the way that my mom uses emojis is very bizarre. And that's true. So regardless, all of this is being overanalyzed due to the fact that, will the two start dating romantically, they both claim that it didn't start like that. That wasn't the intention.

There was no concrete proof that I could find that said they dated before Mary passed. I believe later, a waitress came forward to say that before Mary's death, she saw the two cuddling up at a restaurant. But then she later came out to say she had no idea, she could not be sure if this was before or after Mary's death, but she had seen them cuddling at a restaurant. There's a neighbor that comes forward later

to say that she saw the two hooking up before Mary's death, but more on that later. So in defense of Bill, law enforcement said that they combed through all of his phone records, all of his electronic records, and there was no record of him talking to Kathleen prior to Mary's murder. But of course others are going to argue he could have used a burner phone. He could have used a different phone when he was talking to Kathleen. And then once the murder plot was in ready, they stopped using that phone and then after Mary died, he started texting Kathleen again and made it seem like they just started talking.

Okay, I could see that being possible. I just don't know how likely it would be. Also, that indicates that Kathleen herself would have to have been involved. Later, her sisters would argue that if she had done anything to help Bill or had she known anything, she couldn't be held liable because she had quote, neurological disease. So, it's just overall very, very messy. They could argue the theory, but you need evidence to back that. Yeah.

So, I guess the neighbor is the evidence. And Bill claimed he started seeing Kathleen romantically near September. Side note, interestingly enough, Bill allegedly went to the doctor for erectile dysfunction. According to his medical records, he told the doctor that he was having problems with his quote, new girlfriend. And this is just six weeks after Mary's murder. Mary passed away July 22nd. So a few months after the murder, it was gradual. Their messages went from two people in grief to two people flirting, and Bill said it was weird. You know, he's falling for Kathleen on one hand, but on the other hand, even the mention of his wife would make him break down in tears.

Kathleen later explained to those that were confused, experiencing such profound grief intensifies all other emotions. Bill would later say, I had nothing left in my life after Mary died. I just felt pain and sadness every single day. And I had learned firsthand that everything could be ripped away in an instant. And I saw this chance for a little companionship and human warmth, just a little bit of happiness. And I thought, you know, I might be gone tomorrow. I didn't want to wait till

everybody thought it was politically correct. Bill was rather direct, but it was clear some of Mary's other sisters were not happy about this and they were very suspicious of Bill. Those who are on Bill's side say, you know, it might not make sense to us, but humans grievance strange ways. And this is not the first time that someone has died and the spouse ends up dating a sibling of the victim. It's actually happened in the Biden family. So, I mean, it's not the first time we've seen it.

There must be some psychology behind it if it's been studied. There must be- You said it was through the trauma together, right? Yeah, the grief. And maybe it starts with just talking about the memories of this loved one. And then it just turns into something else I don't know.

I don't know. I think it's a little wild, but I've also never been in a situation where I lost my partner. Builder and have a life insurance policy set up for Mary. He didn't get some sort of payout for this. In fact, it probably hindered his ability to sell the practice for more money because... It sounds harsh, but this is from people that are defending Bill. Mary's death had a negative impact on the practice for more money because it sounds harsh but this is from people that are defending Bill. Mary's death had a negative impact on the practice. It wouldn't have been smart and it sounds odd.

They also said that Mary took care of everything. Bill basically depended on her for everything. Yeah, they argued sometimes. I'm sure the couple wasn't perfect, but let's be real. Bill's life was much easier with Mary around. When you're 69, it's kind of like that. Depending on how you look at it, maybe it's understandable that Bill and Kathleen started a romantic relationship, or it could be the most suspicious thing on Earth. That's how the police were feeling about it. They were like, this is suspicious. So their main goal is to find out when the affair started. But there was always that nagging thought in the back of their minds. Did Bill really have the guts and audacity to murder his wife frame his son and then

openly date his deceased wife's sister? If yes, the audacity is terrifying. When Bill was brought in to be questioned, the police were even more confused. He seemed even more helpful, genuinely, not in a creepy way, not in a forced way, but it seemed like he himself wanted answers to what happened to his wife. He stayed for eight hours during his first interview, he turned over all of his computers, iPhone, iPad without hesitation, and all of his text messages, all of his interactions with Kathleen were right there ready for them to see.

He never deleted anything, he never lied to them, he never tried to cover it up, he was very upfront about his budding relationship with Kathleen. The investigators were kind of intrigued. Like usually if you're guilty, you would try to cover up your motive, right? It just didn't make sense for Bill to come up with this elaborate plan to kill his wife and then not think to get rid of these text messages, not think to get a burner phone to text Kathleen on. Some would argue, but maybe that's the cover up. Maybe being so open and honest

is the plan, like reverse psychology. Side note, the police informed Bill that they were in the middle of writing a search warrant for the office and the house, and they're trying to gauge Bill's reaction. But he just said, oh, you didn't need a warrant. I'll give you permission right now to do whatever you need. Like, you want to go there right now? I'll take you myself. They were interested. They're like, yeah, let's go right now. We're going to take you up on it.

But the detectives felt like this said a lot. Others argued that Bill was smart enough. He had time to get rid of the evidence. This is three months after the death. Anything shady, anything bad he would have hidden and gotten rid of by now. But none of this, his willingness to have his life under a magnifying glass, none of this eliminated Bill as a person of interest.

The police at this point knew that the murder weapon had been ordered from the office and shipped to the office and they thought Bill could have easily used Katie's desk and computer to order the drugs and frame his son for it. Who else could it have been? Mary wouldn't have ordered it. Adam said it wasn't him, not saying that we should believe that, but he doesn't really come into the office much.

So we know from part one that the Colchazine was ordered using an email account that was set up at the Chiropractor Family Practice and it appeared to be Adam Yoder. But Adam was like, that's not my email. It looks like my email, it's my name, it's my birth year, but it looks like a mashup of two of my actual email accounts.

The police talked to Katie about it, and mainly they're just talking to her about, hey, who orders the supplies? Does anybody use your computer? Did Adam ever come in for a package? Like, how often does Adam come in? They thought Katie was very straightforward, honest. The detective said the first impression of Katie was innocent. She just seems very innocent. But there was something that nagged at the investigators, something Katie had said. She made a passing comment. Oh, one of my duties at work is stamp all the envelopes that go out. We don't have pre-made business envelopes. So I have to like physically stamp all of them, peel the stamp sticker off and then put them on the envelopes. Yeah, it's a whole thing. You know how some businesses have the printed stamps, they're pre-stamped envelopes.

Their business does not. So one of Katie's job duties is to peel a sticker stamp and then put it on the envelope. Okay. And have these ready to go. So whenever they do mail out anything, the stamps are on there. Why is that interesting?

The police are like, oh my God, the f**king stamp on the anonymous letter. They test the stamp. Oh, remember remember they thought Bill was framing his son Female DNA was found on the stamp under the stamp, but they don't know who they don't know who but female DNA You can't just match it. No, it's like traces. Oh my god curious very curious indeed right if the letter were true Who would Adam be close enough to confess to murder Katie? Who had access to marry in her food Katie? Who could order the drug from the office Katie?

Who would intercept any shipments made to the office? Katie! Oh my god! So now, with this information, the police start really suspecting Katie. The team also found out that one of the IP addresses logged into Mr. Adam Yoder's Gmail account, the one used to order the drug, the IP address, was traced back to Katie's home address. Okay then. How do you explain that? What's crazy is they do. I don't know if they do it well. Everything has a reason and it's up to you guys to decide if it's a good or not for you, sir. Hmm, okay. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into war

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And Plants start at as little as $9.99 a month. Max, the one to watch. Subscription required. Visit max.com So Katie told investigators that she hadn't seen Adam since September the email was logged in from her home IP address in October, but you hadn't seen Adam since September So who logged in in October if you didn't see Adam if he wasn't with you and didn't use your device to log in then it must have been you Right If you didn't see Adam, if he wasn't with you and didn't use your device to log in, then it must have been you, right?

Interestingly, later forensics would also find that the password to the email account was Adam is gay. Investigators felt like that's not really a password for a young man, regardless of their sexuality to make for their own email. It kind of just, I don't know, toxic masculinity, Adam was straight. It sounds more like a kind of a password a scorned ex-girlfriend would create. Katie came in to answer some questions without a lawyer. Adam was straight, it sounds more like a kind of a password a scorned ex-girlfriend would create. Katie came in to answer some questions without a lawyer. She would come in a total of six times to talk to investigators. And already her energy was interesting. They said that she looked rattled.

Her shoulders were slumped. She looked defeated. Katie started hyperventilating before the interview even started, and she just kept saying, I'm scared, I'm scared. But she never caught a lawyer? No, people take it very differently. So Katie's team, they say because she loved Mary and she wanted to help. She genuinely is a good person and she's innocent. Why wouldn't she call a lawyer?

The detectives say instead of leaving when we were grilling her instead of asking for a lawyer like most might do, she kept trying to control the conversation and kept bringing it back to Adam did it or build it. See what I'm telling you. It's how you look at it. But she's talking about both of them. Yeah. I know.

I did that same face you're doing right now, which is the kind of shrug cocking the head like, hmm. So they read her her Miranda warning. She's breathing fast. She's she responded. Yes. Yes. And they said her her Miranda warning. She's breathing fast. She's she responded. Yes, yes. And they said, you're not in any trouble. I just need you to be honest with me, Katie. They asked if she wanted it attorney. She indicated she will move forward without one. And within a few moments, Katie admitted to writing the anonymous letters.

She would later say she was pressured into admitting to this and she took it back and declared she did not write it. She said that the police basically coerced her into saying that she wrote it, but she didn't. Katie claimed Adam confessed to the crime in September in the office two months after the murder. Katie starts freaking out right there in the office. He's like, come to my car. You're like freaking out. And he told her that she was practically sitting on top of the murder weapon, the bottle

of culturezine that was allegedly right under the passenger seat of the cheaper. Remember, Katie said that she remembered back to when the package came in to the office. Adams stopped by to pick up a package. She doesn't know if it's the same one, but is that a coincidence? The police then asked her if she logged into the Gmail account that was used to order the drug, and she responded, I was hoping Adam didn't change the password. Meaning she knew Adam's password. She's trying to say this is Adam's email, and I change the password. Meaning she knew Adam's password. She's trying to say, this is Adam's email

and I remember the password. So after he confessed, I went into the email to see if he ordered it or like, I don't know, snoop around. So you logged into the email account from your house, correct, Katie? I need you to be honest with me. I can't have you telling me that you never logged into the account and I get more of the IP addresses back

and I realize you've logged in. If you want me to help you, I need you to help me. You follow? Katie paused and the detective said, her whole demeanor changed and she got irritable and frustrated and said, I'm trying to help you. They said it was kind of strange. Katie later admitted that she saw Adam on the account

and logged in on her phone. And they said, look, Katie, we need your help proving it's Adam. What if you can't prove it's Adam? Who do you think he made it to look like this? I'm afraid he's going to put it back to me. As the office that day, he said if anyone was going to get in trouble, it was going to be me.

For what? What would you get in trouble for, Katie? That I'm connected to everything. Let me ask you this. The package comes into the office. You said he picked it up. Did you open it first? Did you touch it?

No. So your DNA is not going to be on the bottle because you didn't open it. Accurate. Katie said she never touched the bottle of Colchizine. And that's all that mattered because the outer layer of the Colchizine wrapping, the plastic wrapping, it's more like a cardboard wrapping, but it's not the actual box. You know how it gets packed in like a little layer for protection?

That had a female DNA. And it wasn't enough, but they couldn't rule out Katie, which more on that later. Katie went on to explain that she was terrified. She was scared that Adam was trying to pin this on her. She said that he had access to her phone and could put all sorts of information on her phone so that the murder would come back to her.

They asked Katie if she thought that Adam would test positive for Colchising, since it's in the time frame to show up on a hair drug test, remember how he got sick? And she said, I would say yes, only because he specifically said that there were some similarities between his symptoms and his moms. So you think he researched Colchising in order to come up with this plan to use it on his mom, right?

He must have looked it up somewhere, right? Right. Why do you think he would use such a dramatic painful way to hurt himself? Is that part of his plan? I don't know why he would try to poison himself. He got a bottle of supplements from you, correct? Yeah. Did he ever tell you how many took? No. Did you ever tell him how many to take one at a time, five at a time? No, it's on the bottle, like one or two maybe. Did Adam tell you how he administered the toxin to Mary, in a bottle of water?

Uh, vitamins or something he put in it? Do you think it's possible someone other than Adam did this? Like Dr. Bill. The investigators expressed confusion at the fact that Adam kept the murder weapon in the car. It's quite a risk to take. Katie guessed that maybe he was planning to kill someone else with it. And they said, let me ask you this, Katie.

Is it possible that someone planted this in his Jeep? I guess it's possible. I can tell you right now, in the FBI studies that we went back on, guys don't hang on to the murder weapon because that's how they get caught. So he said, guys don't hang on to the murder weapon. I think they were trying to say just in general, people, but they're just saying, guys don't hang on to the murder weapon. I think they were trying to say just in general people, but they're just, you know, saying guys don't hang on to the murder weapon. Katie sat up a bit straighter,

and she defensively offered up an odd statement. But guys also don't use poison. The detective said it was really weird. She almost said it in like a snottie way, a challenging way. That's how they felt at least. They said she laughed and even cocked her head to the bit of tiny bit, cocked her head to the side just a tiny bit before saying they say it's a lady's weapon. They say it's a lady's weapon. The investigator

repeated more out of shock than a question and she said, yeah, they said it was strange. It's almost like her entire demeanor in that very moment had changed. The energy in the room shifted. There was a new charged tension lingering amongst them. They felt like in the blink of an eye that she had gone from this cowering victim with her shoulder slump to now a woman taunting them. They said this comment would change everything. They felt this was Katie confidently admitting to murdering Mary Yoder.

It showed them, like so many other killers before her that sat in that very chair. She had a grandoy sense of self. She felt frustrated. This was like her little cracking moment and the lack of empathy for Mary Yoder while talking about this murder weapon was startling. The detective felt like it was even more puzzling

because at any moment she could have gotten up and said, you know what, enough is enough. I'm done, I'm gonna lawyer up. But instead she stayed and they felt like it was even more puzzling because at any moment she could have gotten up and said, you know what, enough is enough. I'm done. I'm going to lawyer up. But instead she stayed and they felt like she was just staying to convince them that it was either Bill or Adam that had killed Katie. Katie's defense would later say, no, she spoke to you guys all those times because she's genuinely a good person.

When confronted with the fact that it would have been very hard for Adam to log into the Gmail account from her parents home and from the office, Katie said he must have done it remotely. She knew that he knew how to hack computers. But when computer forensic, forensic teams, professionals, experts went through it, they said that they found no evidence of anything being hacked. They're not saying that hacking is impossible, they're saying that they found no trace a hack had occurred. So basically they're saying a hack is like opening a back door.

Most of the time you have an indication that a back door was opened. They didn't see that. So if someone is going to hack someone remotely and not leave a back door open, that's crazy skill. That's someone that's been doing this for years. It's not just a hee hee ha ha. I found out their password. Katie insisted that not only that, but Adam had asked her about the Colchazine maybe a

year before Mary's murder. He never stated he was going to do something sinister, he's like, hey, have you ever heard of Colchazine? He even allegedly asked Katie if she knew how to get her hands on some. That was a lie. Uh, Katie mentioned in a separate interaction with the detectives that she had never heard of the drug until recently. The officers did not point it out.

They wanted to keep her talking. They wanted to keep her comfortable. The more she talked, the deeper the hole that she was digging herself in. Katie mentioned how the family were acting in the hospital, and she said that, Adam seemed concerned, but Dr. Bill didn't seem concerned at all. So it seemed like now Katie wants to focus on Bill being the killer instead of Adam, which is interesting because she already confessed to being the one that wrote the anonymous letter pointing the finger at Adam so if Adam had confessed to you to killing his wife,

then now why would you say that Mary's husband did it? She said that she was just trying to help by writing that letter. So they start running in circles before the detectives told her, look, we're looking at one of three people here. The husband, Adam, or you. but the Gmail, that's the problem. The problem is the email because that keeps coming back to you, Katie. Katie the whole time just sat there and kept saying, right, right, the detectives told her, we believe you set it up. The account used it and now you're trying to distance

yourself from it. Why? We need to know why. She stayed quiet. Look, it's not looking good, Katie. You pointed the finger to Adam, then Bill. You know that the murder weapon was in the Jeep. You knew the murder weapon would have been delivered to the office. You wrote the anonymous letter. These are very important pieces of evidence. The detectives argued that no matter what Katie alleged, everything came back to Katie. They pointed to her phone sitting at the table. That's you. Adam can't control that. That phone is connected to you. That's you. Right. Right. It's connected to me. And I'm afraid that it's never going to be connected to Adam at all. I can tell you

and it's never going to be enough. Basically, hinting that Adam had expertly masterfully framed the whole thing on Katie. And there was nothing she could do about it. It was too late. He was too smart. No matter what she said to the detectives, it wasn't going to get through. When Katie didn't have a good answer for the detectives' hard pressing questions, they asked her to do what's called a CVSA. It's similar to a lie detector test, but allegedly slightly more accurate? Look, I don't know. Okay, neither test are considered admissible in court, so I just don't even like lie detector tests, so I don't think I like this one even more, but it's a computer voice stress analysis. So I'm assuming some sort of algorithm,

software, or maybe even potentially AI tries to pinpoint inflections in your voice that indicate panic and stress. That maybe the human ear may not be privy to. So Katie resists the idea. When she was asked why she responded cryptically, because I know that you can't protect me from Adam. From Adam? Yeah. What is Adam gonna do to you? Why is Adam gonna come after you?

Allegedly Katie stalled, but would come back and take this test and her stress levels were allegedly off the charts. None of this is admissible in court, so I don't really know, but the detective said that she failed miserably. Katie would later claim that she passed with flying colors. What I do know is that the authorities stated that they straight up lied to Katie, so they'll sometimes do that.

They'll tell you that you passed, but you didn't. They just want you to feel comfortable. They want you to feel like you got the upper hand. So, did she pass? Did she not? Does it even matter? I don't know. Other than admitting to writing the letter, which she would later take back, Katie never really confessed to anything, no matter how hard the detectives would try. Which side note, her writing the note is a huge, huge deal, because none of this was public information.

Nobody but the Yodors knew that Mary was killed from Colchazine, and on top of that, she knew exactly where the murder weapon was still being hidden. So if Katie knew someone told her or she had put it there. And if she was linked to having signed in to the Gmail that was used to purchase the murder weapon, and it was shipped to her place of work, it's a rather direct link to the murder. At one point, during the interview, Katie broke down and said, it's scary. It is scary, Katie, because it clearly points to one person.

Right, but I don't know how. It clearly points to one person, and we are not gonna have a problem with that. Katie cried before whispering, this is my future. I've worked so hard. I don't think I can help you. The detective asked why.

He tried to get on Katie's side by saying that as long as she told the truth, he could take it to the boss and fight with her, fight for her. She said, I don't think anyone can help me. And he said, I don't believe that Katie. And she argued, well, it's my life on the line. You can't help me. What does that mean?

It's very cryptic. It sounds a little sounded like defeat when she's saying those words. Yes. So, Cygnot, this doesn't imply guilt or innocence, but a lot of people were thrown off by this text thread that was later shown in court. Katie's friend had texted her asking if the police were still bothering her, and she said yes, and it's hindering her performance in school. Her friend responded, yikes, are they still considering you as suspect?

She wrote, development on the Doctor Case on Monday. The investigators called me 15 times and showed up at my house, persistent. I went and talked with them and gave a DNA sample. I hope they appreciate my valuable finals time. So this kind of goes against the whole theory that Katie just wanted to help, and that's why she kept going in and talking to the police.

I don't know, this text message doesn't really sound like the picture of this woman who's like, oh, I just want to fucking help. And anyway, I can. It just felt a little insensitive, I guess. It could be the response of a callous killer, or it could be the response of someone who genuinely has no idea why the police are even interested in talking to them about something that they have no clue about. So I don't know, depending on how you see it, how you spin it, it could be a very guilty response or a very rationally frustrated one.

So while the police are zoning it, zeroing in on Katie, getting ready to arrest her, the town turns on Bill and Adam Yoder. They all rally behind Katie. But the minute that she was arrested, there were free Katie signs all over town. What? The signs read, free Katie calmly, she's innocent, wrongfully charged. People were wearing free Katie shirts. The rumor mill was churning, they were pumping out new ones like they got paid commission.

They said Bill was a drug dealer who supplied a ton of weed to everyone in town. He had mistresses for years and years and years, and when Mary died, he was in debt. He had to get rid of her to get the rest of the money. You're like, what money? We'll get to that. Adam was probably in on it, probably helping his dad sell the weed, a drug dealing duo. Now this whole weed speculation is important, because it's not entirely false. It's not a bunch of suburban moms just freaking out about weed.

Okay, well maybe some of them are, but most of them are not. A lot of it had to do with the fact that Colchising can be used to aid in marijuana growth. So it's argued that Bill ordered it to the store for his marijuana plants and then later used it for murder. Now I do want to mention that Bill did grow weed. Bill confessed that he and Mary grew weed in the 70s and the 80s when a lot of people were trying to grow weed. They were trying to grow a super crop. They were genetically modifying the weeds so that they only had female plants, which meant the weed would be much more potent.

It's confusing. I don't know much about marijuana growth, okay? But people who know about it said that it's very difficult to genetically modify marijuana without the use of culture seen. I don't know how accurate that is. That's scary. Yeah.

The people are buying it like that. Yeah. And Mary's sister's knew about it. In fact, he claimed that he would ship them any weed whenever they needed it, but they were like, no, we're not weed smokers. Look, this whole weed thing, I get it. People want to see if he had gotten his hands on culture scene. They want to see if there's something else going on with the weed.

But some people are directly correlating his growth of weed to bad moral character. I did see some online discourse basically in the tune of, if he's evil enough to grow weed, he's evil enough to kill his wife, and I'm like, not the devil's lettuce. Yeah. So, I think Mary's sisters are pretty rational in the sense that they keep pointing to the link between weed and culture'sine. So Katie's arrested and ends up having two trials. Adam and Bill testified during the trials

and a big point of contention that still gets even me. Okay, I'm like, what? They both received immunity in exchange for their testimonies, full immunity. Do with that what you will because you don't really need immunity to testify in something like this. Usually give people immunity when they're kind of involved in a crime.

Why? What is that? Why is that? It's up in the air. Why exactly? They got it. From the weed thing, maybe. Maybe it was the weed.

Maybe it was also the fact that they'd be admitting to a lot of shitty things. They were pretty open about their life. Some would say that they were manipulatively open, manipulating and trying to seem vulnerable and transparent and bringing up things like the weed and some of these other things. But yeah, nothing really explosive came out during their testimonies, like not much that we didn't already know. I mean, I guess at the time it was explosive because we found all this out during the trial, but the defense tried to point the finger at Bill instead of Katie. Usually in Murder Trials, the defense has to not only make the jurors feel reasonable doubt, but they have to provide some sort

of other logical killer. You have to say, no, it wasn't me because think of all these other people it could have been. But an interesting line of questioning from the defense team is they just kept asking Bill if he watched porn and stuff. It's just very weird. It always goes down that path, doesn't it? So yeah, parts of the trial were just kind of useless yelling at each other and not even covering the real important topics. During Bill's testimony, one of Mary's sisters that were supporting Katie had a, yeah, three of them were sitting behind Katie the whole time.

Why? They believed Katie was innocent. They believed that Bill and Adam were the real killers. And it's not like they like Katie. It's just the fact that they think an innocent woman is about to go to jail for the crime that Bill and Adam Yoder committed. And we're gonna get into why they think all of that, okay? So during Bill's testimony, what a Mary sisters that was supporting Katie had allowed outburst. She was thrown out of the courtroom, Bill alleged that he had left after her testimony and that she was there outside. And she said, well, Bill, that was quite the performance.

Bill wanted to respond, but two cops rush over and told Mary's sister that she wasn't allowed to harass the witnesses. They report the incident to the judge, and that sister was banned from the courtroom for the remainder of the trial. Adam's testimony wasn't very revolutionary. He talked about his relationship with Katie, how often they broke up, there were unions, the texts, everything. He brought up the alpha brain supplements and how he got sick after taking them and how Katie encouraged him to keep taking them. In fact, she told him the more consistent he was with taking them, the better the effects. Does he still have that?

This is the crazy part. This is the crazy part where I didn't really understand why this was admitted into the trial, but they tested the alpha brain for Colchazine. Well, the remainder of the pills, there were three pills missing, right? Yeah. They tested the rest, and they all came back negative. Interesting, right? The argument is, if Katie had put Colchazine in a pill or two, what are the odds that those are the ones that Brian took? Right. There were three pills out of 31, that's a crazy possibility. But would Katie even really put the drug in just one or two pills, maybe three, which

she just hoped that he would finish the whole bottle and somewhere along the line, he would get sick and potentially die? So they were thinking, a lot of people that were against Katie, that she put it in one pill and it was the second pill that he took. Because remember after the first one, he didn't feel anything. And then after the second one, immediately, he said he was doubled over. Like she fed it to him? No, like she had just put one in,

in the whole bottle that had Colchizen. By chance? Yeah, because she did text him. If you remember from part one, like you have to take it consistently, like every day. So maybe it's like, okay, well, within the 30 days he's gonna take it,

the one with Colchizen. I don't know, it's a, okay, well within the 30 days he's gonna take it. The one with Colt's hand. I don't know, it's a weird, this part, I don't even know how it got admitted into trial, honestly. But okay. I'm thinking if I'm trying to do that, right? Whoa, okay. No, I'm just saying. It does make more sense to putting just one. Yeah, because it's easy to-

And then the rest are not contaminated. And it's a daily supplement. Yeah, but the chance of him getting. And it's a daily supplement. Yeah. But the chance of him getting it right away. That's why. Yeah. Because if you were to put a little bit and everything, you would just stop taking it because you'd be like, that makes my stomach hurt. That does not make me feel good. A lot of people are like, why didn't he die, though? Did she miscalculate how much she would need to take his life? Keep this in mind. Why didn't he die, though? Okay. On the other hand, if Katie did not put any drugs in there,

was there something in the alpha brain supplements that made Adam sick? Why did he get sick? Some alleged that he was faking it to set it up later so that when his mom died, he could act like he suffered well. Now, no one can really throw up on command like that or die a reon command.

So some say that he took Colchazine by himself just a small dosage knowing that it wouldn't kill him, knowing that his mother would die of it a little while later, and this would be a great alibi situation. But then he would have to plan that Katie was gifting him some sort of supplement. Maybe he was dropping hints like, oh my god, how do you study for finals? Like, what kind of supplements do you take? I don't know. It's weird. So there's a lot of speculations, but those pills came back negative for culture's scene. So let's get into the phone evidence. The overwhelming majority of the evidence was tech-centered, and it's kind of circumstantial, I guess.

It's a lot. It wasn't just one or two things. It seemed like a mountain. Regardless, it was going to be an uphill battle for the prosecutors. It has gotten a lot harder to convince the jury of a crime, especially with more shows of, you know, all these convicted killers who are later found to be innocent and have spent so many years in prison, the jury is getting harder and harder to convince. Back then, the evidence was gunpowder. Back then, the evidence was you holding a gun, okay? Now, now it's text messages, now it's emails, now it's a digital trail, it's metadata. Sometimes that can just bore and confuse the jurors and it confused jury, they don't really reach

a unanimous decision easily. Because at the end of the day, tech evidence can only show that this phone did this, but it doesn't show who was holding that phone. There are a lot of interesting things though. A lot of these kind of sealed the deal for a lot of people. Katie allegedly used her notes app as a diary almost, at least for a while. In when notes page she wrote, Bill will order supplies for the office under the people's

names. Adam has given out his password to his parents. Mary wants to keep working while Dr. Bill wants to retire. It's weird, she's like keeping tabs, right? A few lines later, could it be grainy like truvia? So truvia is a stevia-based sugar, and she wrote that. Remember from part one, several grains of colchising, the murder weapon

look very similar and are similar in size to truvia. And it only takes a few dozen individual grains of colchising to kill someone, and that is very incredibly alarming. She wrote if yes, and then she started writing office, spray adhesive, discover EN, a bunch of numbers at gmail.com. What is that? So she wrote EN 55 dot 1990 at g dot.

So I think that's email 655 is Adam Yoda for some reason and 1990 at gmail.com. Because right under it was the password for that account. Adam is gay. In another note Katie just wrote, if love could have saved Mary, Mary would have lived forever. Three heart emojis. She wrote, yesterday was so sudden and unexpected. I can't believe Mary is gone. The only thing is, Katie wrote this July 20th of 2015. She wrote that yesterday was sudden and unexpected. Mary was fine on July 19th. She actually wasn't sick until July 20th and even then she didn't pass away until July 22nd. Oh my gosh. and she wrote that before. Wow. Allegedly. We don't know who wrote it, but allegedly she did.

So allegedly, Katie wrote about Mary almost as if she's writing a eulogy and was writing, Mary was a positive light in the world. I'm so lucky and thankful we met. There had not been a day I didn't want to come to work. I appreciated Mary's attention stories after. She was a light, an energy, a strength. That is so chilling. To be writing that when someone's alive. Katie concluded the note with, she would honor Mary's life by emulating her genuine, cheerful,

and kind spirit we love you, Dr. Mary. Another fascinating note that she left, she wrote, I like my men like I like my tea. Throne in the Boston Harbor. This goes with the prosecutor's theory that she had a very strong distaste for Adam and men in particular. She was very upset with men, it seemed. Maybe she thought it was a quirky one-liner. Maybe she thought it was her next Instagram caption. Okay, I don't know, why don't I want to judge? Now, I know that there's an argument about how these could have been

faked, and the main argument is that Katie allegedly shared a night cloud with Adam at one point, meeting their notes app could have synced. I, again, this is the thing, I feel like if Adam were framing Katie, there's a lot better things to write in the Notes app, a lot more explosive things. These are so subtle. I don't know. Let's talk about the other evidence that the state had against her. A few days before Christmas in 2014, so maybe like half a year before Mary died, right? Katie walked into a grocery store and bought a prepaid credit card for $150. She paid in cash. She would later claim that she bought these prepaid credit cards for someone else. She would

not elaborate further, but it's pretty damning evidence because nine days later, the last day of 2014 on a Wednesday, Katie was scheduled to work and someone used the Chiropractic Family Care Computer to sign into an email, Mr. Adam Yoder 1990 at gmail.com, and sent an email to a woman named Rosa Vargas. Rosa Vargas worked for a company called Art Chemicals that supplied Colchisee. The email from the account read, Hi Rosa, I'm having some difficulty with the payment option. The card is a master card debit. Is it possible for you to run the card manually? Sincerely, Adam Yoder. It's believed Katie was trying to buy a gram of cultures in using the prepaid credit card, and Rosa would testify after receiving that email. She called the

chiropractic business to introduce herself and settle the matter over the phone. Rosa said that she had to inform the customer that the product had gone up in market price. And she said that the woman on the other line, a soft, feminine, young sounding voice never gave her name, but she sounded fine with the price range. She was like, okay, yeah, I'll do it online. So, allegedly, Katie purchased the prepaid credit card and it was used to buy the culture scene. And the payment was charged and Rosa emailed Mr. Adam Yoder 1990 at Gmail. Hi Adam, I need a letter of intent and a copy of your business license is your requirement for a sale like this.

I mean, this is a toxic regulated chemical. It's a way to cover their asses. So a few days later, Rosa gets an email. Hello Rosa, sorry for the delay. Our fax machine is being serviced. Here's the business tax ID and license number. And attached, just written in the body of the email was a letter of intent.

So the Gmail alleged that they wanted to research how it affects plants, and they're not going to be using the colchizen on humans or animals. They have no intention of reselling either. Roses had thank you, but we need a signature from the business owner, and the letter of intent has to be on a company letterhead, and it has to be faxed to art chemicals.

Wow, okay, so that's a lot of trails. Two days later Rosa gets it, and the company letterhead, along with Adam Yoder's signature and Dr. Mary Yoder's signature. Experts would say that they were sent from Katie's phone. Apparently, the metadata said that these pictures of these signatures and all of that. It had an app that was used and Katie had the app downloaded on her phone and then she

had deleted it. You can scan it. Yeah, and you can scan it and sign it and do all these things. And a couple of documents are uploaded there and Katie said she had never had that app, but it was shown to have been deleted after she had already installed it on to her devices. See, at the same time, you were saying it's hard to argue, but it's saying that there's so much evidence. Everything is recorded.

But she's saying, well, Adam had my eye cloud. So you know, how sometimes your eye cloud is just... Yeah, but again, if you're... They can track eye clouds. They can also track which device. Vices, yeah, I'm letting you. Come on, there's so much data. Yeah, but it gets crazy because she's got a rebuttal for that.

So Katie is accused of having faked Marriota signature to purchase a drug that would be then used to kill Marriota, which is very sick. Oh yeah. So the prosecutors are accusing Katie of faking Marriota signature to purchase a toxin that would be used to kill Mary Yoder. But it gets worse. Apparently, she tried to use an internet coupon to get a discount on the culture scene, which authorities found it hard to believe that if Katie was being framed, if you're framing someone, are you really going to go find an internet coupon? No, like, I don't

know. I guess in my mind said, I'm like, okay, if I'm framing someone, I mean, I just feel like if she bought that debit card a few days ago, and then it was used, how do you go about that? What's the reason for that? I think that's the problem with this case. There are so many tiny pieces of evidence and so much going on that each side picks the evidence that best presents their case. And then all the middle I have so many unanswered questions. So a few weeks later, the drug had not been delivered and the Gmail account reached out to Rosa again asking what the delay was. Rosa would send a tracking number and the shipment was mailed out to Mary Yoder.

And it would arrive at the family practice Katie would sign for the package. The defense would argue that Katie signed for all the packages, so this is not like a new revelation. A few days after the package arrived, Katie allegedly opened her notes app and started another stream of thoughts. She wrote, grow light, light for chickens6 kilogram, security, ugly red computer, personal phrase, check. What?

It doesn't sound suspicious. Honestly, it's curious to understand this bizarre stream of thought. But authorities believe that she was just writing random stuff, but the one thing that stood out to them was the 180 pounds, because Adam was about 180 pounds. And soon after this

he got sick. So she had filled the notes with all this random stuff but the part that she was really looking for was 180 pounds. So maybe she was trying to experiment with how much culturing she needed to put to poison Adam. Allegedly is what the prosecutors are arguing. Then it's like okay well then why did she poison Mary? The prosecutor's theory is that she had tried to kill Adam. It didn't work. And almost in like a going with how things played out, he didn't end up dying and she's thinking, well I still wanna get my revenge.

I wanted to kill him, but maybe this is a sign that I need to do better. What's better than killing someone? Killing someone that they love. Killing the person that they love, killing the person that they cherish most, and then setting them up for it. So the prosecutors actually think that she had two parts to a plan. It was kind of a win-win situation. So maybe she would kill Mary, and it would push Adam into her arms. He would be

so broken, and she would be there to pick up the pieces. But in this situation that he did not throw himself into her, she would just frame him for it. That was the theory. That would just be another level of revenge, okay? It's just kind of crazy. Why would you break into these apartments? For money, for drugs, whatever was in there?

Why aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? No. Who's going to catch us? What a police. It was the height of the crack era, and instead of locking up drug dealers, some New York City cops had become them. I would suit up in my uniform

and we're going to want some drug dealers and I know how to do it really well. This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal in NYPD history and the investigation that uncovered it all. Did you consider yourself a rat? 100%. I saved my soul just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set, an Autosy Originals documentary podcast series available now in the Autosy app, app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your shows

Detective V in his opinion of interviewing suspects believed and I quote also this is just an opinion He has at least not to my knowledge He has like no psychiatry degree and he's not a mental health professional. But he said Katie was displaying signs of anti-social personality disorder and extreme narcissism. Those who display a pattern of disregard for right and wrong, persistent lying, arrogance and pulsiveness, lack of empathy and remorse, along with other symptoms fall within the anti-social social sociopath spectrum. Also back to Katie's affinity of writing things down in her notes app, very soon after the police started

grilling her about her phone, remember that everything comes back to that, your phone. She started writing interesting notes, like, strange dash. Adam asked if my phone was still connected to his. I think it's because not everything on there is mine. She wrote that in her notes app after the police started grilling her. Almost as if she's pretending like, oh this is so strange, Adam just asked me if our phones are still synced. Hoping maybe the detectives

are reading? Another one she wrote about how she was going through invoices and she wrote a rhetorical question. When did insert client name bring toothpaste? Almost saying, oh my gosh, maybe a client had put culture scene in the toothpaste. It's like she's planting seeds, okay? And speaking of her notes app, they found excerpts of the anonymous letter that she tried rephrasing and rephrasing,

trying to write it in different ways before finally writing the letter. One draft said, ay, assumed to be Adam Yoder, K assumed to be killed, his mother. He put something called culture scene, AY K his mother. Yeah, she was like typing it out. And she was like, he put it in one of the vitamins

when he was at her house for Father's Day. I mean, just the whole planning of this is insane, the level of planning. Which is interesting because Katie would later take back the admission that she wrote the anonymous letter. So did Adam write it pointing the finger at himself or did Bill write it pointing the finger at his son. But then what about this no-top?

If these people went into her phone to write these notes, Katie never saw new strange notes popping up on her phone. Like, she never said, I never used my notes app. I feel like most people use her notes app. She's saying some of them, she did. Yeah, so it's like, what's going on? Another piece of evidence to remember from part one, Kati had blown to Adam $20,000.

Adam later suspected that she did this to make sure that they were always connected, right? That's where the investigators are like, why did how did she have $20,000? Like, you're talking about a young, young college kid with not a high paying job. This is not a few hundred dollars we're talking about, or even a few thousand dollars. Most full-grown adults do not have this kind of money laying around to loan. They searched her room and they found a large bag of cash in her room.

They had a sneaking suspicion that she was embezzling money through the family practice. Oh my gosh. Bill Yoder claimed he went through the books and the authorities believed it was clear Katie was embezzling money. Oh my gosh, tens of thousands? Yeah. Other pieces of evidence included a document

inside of her iPhone titled Diagnosis and Treatment of Colchazine Poisoning. During the trial, Katie's demeanor was heavily criticized as well. In terms of being dressed, she was dressed very well. She had it down to a tee almost, dress mature, but young, put together, but not too polished. She looked relatable, and likable, and approachable.

Listen, there needs to be like stylists for courts. It's crazy. I thought there are. I thought that's, would you say attorneys will suggest what to wear? But it's not really a stylist. There's got to be some sort of crazy psychology behind everything. Attorneys always tell you to dress smart, not too provocative, but not too matronly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're saying that they need to even suggest more. Yeah, they need to have like a stylist come in and give you a makeover and do your makeup. Is that okay to do, though? I don't think so, but it's crazy because so many people will get convicted just and I'm not saying this was the case with Katie I mean kind of the opposite but a lot of people just don't have the funds or the ability to look a certain way that the jury believe is an innocent look. It's crazy how much that can change the perception of the jury. So side note, allegedly, she was on house arrest

before trial, Katie. And she broke it to go shopping. So anyway, during the actual trial, Katie sat there before the court was in session, talking to her sisters, Mary sisters, her stepmom, her dad, her friends. They were all sitting behind her to support her new boyfriend was there.

They would fix her hair, whisper in her ear, they would laugh with her. They even created a free Katie Conley website. The whole thing was wild. There were a lot of bizarre instances. In M. William Phelps' book about this case, it said that during the first trial, Katie would look over, stare at the men in the jury

and part her legs a little under the table because she was always wearing kind of a short skirt and never any pantyhose. I couldn't find further information on this. I don't know if this happened. I'm just putting it out there like it's getting really messy these accusations. It's also said that Katie and her family would be very serious while court was in session. They would look stoic and stressed whenever the jury was around, but the minute they turned the corner and the jury was out of view, they would shuffle out laughing and giggling and joking. Mary's friends who came

to the trial said that it felt gross. They saw it and they were shocked. And another alleged incident was Katie's attorney had a sports car, and he would park it outside the courthouse every single day. And when they all got out of the courthouse, you would see it right there, glimmering in the sunlight, and one day, allegedly, everyone went out and saw Katie and her sisters posing for pictures on her attorney's sports car, taking selfies, laughing, and giggling. A member of the prosecution said, never in my career have I ever seen a family hack like this, especially during a murder trial. Side note, it seemed to like a lot of these, uh, those people that testified for Katie, their

main thing was, I just can't believe someone like Katie would do something like this. I'm not a, I don't believe that. I don't like it when people say that because you don't really know anyone like that. It's hard to say. Could the jury believe it though? That was more important. They came back. And the verdict was read and I'm sure you're already picking up on this. We the jury, after taking a break, are still never going to be able to reach a unanimous verdict. It was a hung jury. There would have to be a second trial. Side note, during Katie and Adam's relationship, Katie had plugged her phone into his computer

and had backed her phone at one point, right? This was used in the second trial. It wasn't there for the first trial. So it gets a lot more explosive the second trial, because Adam thought, well, you have Katie's phone, why would you need the back above my computer? And he was talking to prosecutors one day and they're like, wait, what backup? He was like, I told you guys a while ago that she had backed up her phone on my computer and that's how I found out that she

was cheating on me. And they're like, oh my God. What? Get us your computer. More data. More data. Get that data. So they comb through all of it. And they found a lot of stuff. Yeah, a lot of stuff. They found a screenshot of an internet search for the world's most dangerous toxins.

See, that's what I'm thinking. Like for her to find that, there must be search of the drug. Yeah. World's most dangerous toxins. And I wonder if she would have been familiar with Colchocene through paperwork. So a lot of chiropractor patients have gout inflammatory arthritis. It's interesting. So another image on Katie's phone was a black and white drawing. It's by a famous artist. It's a pencil drawing. So she just,

I'm assuming, downloaded off the internet. It's a mermaid poking out of water. She's naked from the waist up and holding a raven skull in her hand. It seems like her dead lover's head. And it looks like she's conquered this dead lover by killing him. He's clearly dead. The title of the drawing is The Breakup. The prosecutors felt like this was Katie. This is who she is.

It demonstrates her proclivity towards violence when things don't go her way. Maybe this is how Katie viewed the breakup. Maybe she felt that Adam had to pay his price with a life. That was the motive that the prosecutions decided on. So a lot of the information we already knew came out during the second trial. The whole pregnancy lie, the pregnancy was brought up, but you know the fact that there were zero hospital records to confirm her nearly fatal miscarriage that she claimed she had, all of these things. And then DNA evidence.

Katie's DNA was found on the outer wrapping of the Colchocene bottle. Interestingly enough, Bill Yoders DNA couldn't be ruled out from the sample found at the bottle, but Adam Yoders could be ruled out. Katie's team would argue that it was transfer DNA, meaning that Katie had spent so much time in Adam's Jeep and around him, her DNA could have been on something and then later transferred onto the bottle. They were saying you could have put that bottle up next

to a sweater that Katie wore and gotten transferred DNA. Side note, during the second trial, there were some weird moments. A lot of spectators believe that Katie was pretending to be emotional. They said that Katie was seen several times having these emotional outbursts, where she would just start bursting out crying, but it seemed orchestrated because everyone on Katie's team started crying at the exact same time. So like all of her sisters in the chairs behind her, just crying at the same time. And then when recess was called, they would instantly stop.

That's what a witness said. I don't know. I'm just a messenger. One witness said, especially noteworthy, was not only did Katie stop her uncontrollable sobbing immediately, but she was smiling afterward. Mind you, these are stories provided by the Yodors family camp, if you will. These are people that wholeheartedly believed Katie murdered Mary Yoder in cold blood. During the trial, Leon and a family member were on Leon's phone looking at Mary's pictures. They were crying to each other. One of Katie's supporters and her new boyfriend walked over, glanced up what they were looking at, and lovingly respectfully said, well I guess there won't be any more family photos with her.

November 6, 2017. The jury had heard enough and they were ready to make a decision. 24-year-old Katie sat there, zoning out, waiting for the verdict. The jurors found her not guilty of second-degree murder. What? But they found her guilty on the charge of first-degree manslaughter. Why the lesser charge? It seemed like the jury struggled between intent to harm versus intent to kill. Maybe she had meant to harm Mary to put her in the hospital and in a time of distress, maybe Adam would be forced back into her arms for comfort. I don't know man there's a lot of research behind that a lot of premeditated planning. So Bill Yoder gave his victim impact statement where he said,

every day I felt blessed and grateful that Mary was in my life and she had chosen to share life with me. She often told me she felt the same. We felt like the two luckiest people in the world have found each other. After 40 years together, we were still deeply in love, still delighted to spend time together. Adam Yoder gave a very emotional statement. His voice was cracking and he said, I introduced Katie Conley to my family and because I loved her, they all accepted her and treated her like family as blood. I got her a job with my parents, and if I hadn't done those things, my mother would still be alive. Make no mistake. I hate the defendant with every bone in my body and every drop of blood in my veins. I hate Kaitlyn and

Conley because Kaitlyn and Conley murdered my mother. Katie went up to give her statement and she said, with all due respect to the jurors in the justice system, I am innocent. And then she thanked everyone for their support. And then never mentioned anything about Mary Euder. I guess the judge was not moved by her morse or lack thereof, apparently, at least in the judge's opinion, Katie was sentenced to 23 years in prison.

So did they catch the right person? Why do Mary's sisters believe in Katie's innocence? After all the damning evidence, do they see something that we don't? The Conley family was a respectable one in the town of Utica, New York. Her dad was a business owner, a property owner, a landlord. They were a popular family that everyone respected.

Prior to being a successful businessman, her dad was actually an army major. So he raised his kids with a certain strict value and moral standard. Not saying that makes her guilty or innocent, I'm just giving you some background. Katie was one of seven daughters, and everyone said that she was devoted to her family. They were super religious. Katie's best trait was that she was able to love all others. She played tennis. She always finished top 10% of her class. If you asked some of her classmates, they would say that she was witty,

supported, friendly, outgoing. She just knew how to make people smile. Others said that she was nice, but she had a nickname that people called her behind her back. Crazy Katie. Look, I don't know, but apparently, allegedly, there are stories of her king and ex-boyfriends car after a breakup.

She was fine till she didn't get what she wanted. That's what they said. And then crazy Katie would come out and you would never expect it from her, but here it was. Someone who claimed to know Katie well said, I realize there were two sides to Katie. One was smart and introverted and shy, and the other one was cold, calculated. Kind of narcissistic. Again, these are just stories. We do know that Katie did do some objectively nice things. She spent hours every single week caring for an elderly person, she would go over to their place, cook for them, clean for them, shop for them, run errands. She wasn't getting paid. She later said, I did this because I'm honoring my religion. You know, we're lifelong Catholics,

and this is my way of proving Love Thy Neighbor. Katie was one of those girls that seemed to have infinite time. She even had a painting business on the side when she loved animals. People who knew her said that she had a soft spot for animals. She would rescue as many animals as she could, not just dogs or cats, but full on horses, chickens, goats. One time, a donkey, it's kind of wild. Say no, Katie was also said to have been raised

in this super sheltered household, meaning when the kids were young, they did not have any technology in the house. No wireless cable, no internet, nothing. They kept it super, super old school. They were not raised in modern times, like do you know what I mean? Adam said Katie didn't even have a smartphone in 2011. I can't remember if everyone had smartphones in 2011. But I'm assuming you said that because a lot of people did. He was shocked. She seemed to

not even know how tech worked at all, which side note people use this against and in defense of Katie. Some say, see, that's why she did all those bizarre things like writing in her notes app, creating an email for Adam and then logging into it on her phone. She didn't realize that the cops could trace it back to her. Others said, no, this just shows that she has no idea how tech works and it's so easy for someone to take advantage of that. They argued, Bill was allegedly great at computers, so I don't really have proof of this so far

other than people saying that he was good. Mary sisters say that he was brilliant overall. He has an undergraduate degree from Stanford University. He trained and served as an elite army intelligence officer. This is the guy's really smart. They said it's weird because he acted like he wasn't good at computers. But they alleged that he was using VPNs

before VPNs were popular. He knew how to do like a proxy screen, which is basically his back private office computer could control the front desk computer and see the screen and stuff. Another thing I want to point out is that Katie's attorneys kept saying that she was hacked. And I'm not sure if that's the best way to describe what they're alleging. In fact, I think saying hacked is making her look worse because what are the odds that would hacks into your phone and does all this shady stuff non-stop? It sounds like a bizarre excuse.

What they should have honed in on and which they later do is the fact that Katie didn't have a password on her phone. Katie claimed that while at work, Bill had a strict rule that she had to keep her phone in the back in a little bin. So Bill, Mary, Adam, really anyone would have direct access to her phone if they so wished because she didn't even have a password. They could go to her phone, look up strange searches, and then delete it, they could plan evidence, they could do all of these things.

You're like, okay, well that still doesn't explain why Katie logged into the Mr. Adam Yoder email that was used to order the drug from her own house. Katie's team argued that Katie had asked Adam to set up her family home Wi-Fi network, and he did not put a password on it, insinuating that Adam could have just been near the house and accessed the Wi-Fi network and logged into the email, but an IP address is unique per device, right? So I'm not sure how that would work, but that's what they're kind of alleging with this whole Wi-Fi thing. But Katie alleges that the notes could have been easily synced because both devices, her phone, and some of Adam's devices use the same iCloud account, so sometimes the note's

sync. Anyway, those fourKD argued that Bill and Adam had more knowledge of computers in tech than her so they could have easily set her up. Now while I do agree that some things are undeniably shady, and I don't know if I'm just in over my depth here, but to do that much seems really, really difficult. It seems really well coordinated and planned to incrementally put these gradual little hints in her phone. And I guess if this were true, I just haven't seen many cases like this where all these little details, all these little mundane things were used to frame someone. Another thing that gets brought up a lot is that Adam doesn't have a squeaky clean past.

So when he was 20 years old, he had sex with a 16 year old, and you know, it's just, honestly, it's really bad. Katie's team is pointing this out to say, Adam paints himself as this guy that's lost in life and is manipulated by Katie, but at one point he was the manipulator. He was capable of manipulating a 16 year old and sleeping with him. So he's not like this poor dude who just is like,

oh, I don't know how to act around girls and I'm just like so hard-broken. But fine, Adam wasn't there the day that Mary was hospitalized. He couldn't have drugged her, but Bill was. He was with Mary that morning before work. Katie's team argue Bill is the one claiming that Mary didn't eat breakfast that morning. But what if she did? He just claims that she never ate breakfast? Okay. What if she drinks something? What if she did something else? Or maybe it was in water or like an orange juice? How do we know for sure? Now why are they so

honed in on Bill? Like what's up with Bill? What's going on? Side note, Mary's other sisters that are citing with Katie stated that Kathleen, their sister that's now dating Bill, has a quote neurological disease. So the family do not believe that she should be held

accountable for her actions and choices. And they believe that Bill is taking advantage of that and taking advantage of Kathleen and he's not in love with her but he's dating her because Kathleen was financially well off. The sister said that they tried to tell Kathleen that Bill is trying to use her but she just wanted to listen to them and neither with the cops. The sister said they tried repeatedly to tell the police that they need to look into Bill and that Adam is weird too but they just wanted a good trial where the actual killer would be served

justice, but they felt like this was not it. One sister said it's like the cops already had an image in their minds of what had happened and they were going to stick to it. The police said they ruled out Bill because he didn't directly gain financially from Mary's death. There was no insurance payout, but the sister said that Bill had recently inherited $400,000 from his dad, which is a lot, but he told his daughter Tammy that it wasn't enough for two people to retire. Now, you can take this either way.

He could just casually point out, yeah, I got on inheritance, but it's not much. We still have to sell the practice because it's not enough for two people to retire. Or the sisters are alleging, it's not enough for two people to retire. Or the sisters are alleging it's not enough for two people to retire. So he had plans to kill Mary to make sure that he could retire. He was nearing 70 years old. He was itching to retire and their track to get there was long. Even if they sold their practice, it would take a while to train someone to sell it to finalize everything. And the sisters claim Bill didn't want to wait that long. Because right after Mary's death, he worked a few weeks and immediately retired.

So with his inheritance and with Kathleen's money, Bill is going to live a very, very well, financially well-life with Mary out of the picture. That's also why they assumed that Bill and Kathleen started their affair long before Mary died, because I mean, what was his great big plan? Just hope that his late wife's widowed sister would be interested in him after he murdered his wife. The sisters also noted that the two stories didn't add up. Bill said they didn't start spending their time together until October or November. Mary died in July for reference, but Kathy said September.

They started becoming romantically involved. Regardless, the sisters believe their texts were more intimate than you would imagine from a couple that just got together after a traumatic death. They would say things like, I love you, life is good. The weekend was wonderful. Missing your arms, I'm a happy idiot. The sisters also claimed that a neighbor of Kathleen saw them together before Mary's death, remember? So this neighbor says that this was before Mary's death and she knew for a fact because she was walking her daughter to a doctor's appointment and she remembered the day of the doctor's appointment and she saw the day of the doctor's appointment.

And she saw Kathleen making out with Bill on the porch, like really intimately, just tongues down each other's throat and she shielded her daughter's eyes. That's what she said. I don't know if this has been proven. I don't know. In the public. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That also seems a little strange is a lot of people in front of the house.

Yeah. Additionally, the sisters believe that Bill was the only one that could have had the opportunity to poison Mary. They argued that at the hospital, remember how Mary had a brief rebound, and she was feeling better. Well, soon afterwards, her condition took a nose dive, and it speculated that someone had fed her poison while she was at the hospital.

Now, this is kind of debated because some people say that Colchazine and a lot of times in death, you'll get a rebound, people will start feeling better and then they don't. But the only person that was there during that rebound period was Bill. So the other people, the other children, even Katie, they all visited after she was already in critical condition. So who would have access to further poison her at the hospital? Just Bill. And at one point, Bill went home to gather a few things for Mary at Mary's request and brought her cough drops and an inhaler.

Maybe he sprinkled some extra cold chazine in there. Another thing about Mary's hospital stay, the sisters didn't understand Bill's charger story. The night that he went back home to sleep, his wife is not doing well. She's in the hospital. And he's charging his phone in the next room? On top of that, once the state troopers got there, the sisters alleged that it should have taken Bill 15 minutes to get to the hospital from the house, but it took him an hour. Why?

Why was he moving so slow when his wife was in critical condition? There's more. The sisters alleged that after Mary's death, Bill and Adam seemed super, super eager to have Mary's body cremated. They didn't even bother telling extended family members of their plans, which is wild. They allegedly wanted to cremate her body before the final toxicology reports came back. The sisters are like, seriously? You want your loved ones' body to be burned when you don't even know what killed them, and it's clear the medical examiner's office is confused. Like, what if the hospital had done something to her?

You wouldn't want to wait and see? What if further testing needs to be done? Sometimes toxicology reports can take, like, eight weeks. So it didn't make sense to the sisters. Later the sisters alleged that the funeral director told them directly that Bill and Adam were, quote, all business. In and out within 30 minutes, usually the process took two hours. They were quick. To make the aunts even more suspicious, the sisters, was that once the Yodors, so Bill and the

kids got the toxicology reports back, they knew that Mary had been poisoned with colchizen. They didn't report it to the police. It took months, and it wasn't even them. Sharon, Mary Mary, sister was the one that alerted the police department and triggered an investigation. Even the whole autopsy process felt shady to the sisters. We learned in episode one, the family seemed eager to get the autopsy done. Will the sisters alleged that it was actually hospital policy? The hospital required an autopsy for liability reasons, the Yoder family did not request it. The sisters think that there's a reason for all of this.

There's a reason that Mary died in the hospital. So the first point of contention with the autopsy is that the sisters are saying that Bill is acting, like he's the one that wanted answers, he's the one that's like, I want an autopsy, but it's actually hospital policy. So they're like, why are you acting like it was you? You didn't request it, but I don't know.

Then another thing was that Mary dying in the hospital, they believed that Bill believed that if Mary died at work or at home, there was going to be an autopsy. I mean, of course, the police would be called, paramedics would be called, should be pronounced dead at the scene. I mean, people just don't really suddenly die if they're otherwise healthy. So of course, they would have an investigation and an autopsy in her death. But Bill assumed if she was at the hospital, maybe she wouldn't have had an autopsy done. Maybe there wouldn't be toxicology reports done, but they did it. Bill claims he was the one asking for it,

and the sister said, no, he didn't. Side note, allegedly, Lyanna lied to Mary's other relatives about the cause of death. They said Lyanna told them that Mary died from a condition called ascending Chalengitis. Lyanna is a physician by the way, so this is someone who's very familiar with medical jargon. She knows what she's reading. So Lyanna said they took it as fact, till they later found out that Mary did not die from that at all. She died from essentially being poisoned. So at first they confronted Leona and she asked them to not tell anyone.

So they're like, okay, well, maybe she's telling us not to tell anyone because the police are looking into it. But they were wrong about that. The police weren't looking into it. So why does she do that? The sisters think it's for some sinister reason. To just cover the dad? Yeah, cover the dad, or maybe the brother after the fact.

They don't think that Leona knew that Mary was going to be murdered, but it happened after the fact and she's like, okay, well now I'm going to stick with my family. The sisters alleged that at the hospital, Bill and Leona were asked multiple times by the hospital staff who had no idea what was going on with Mary. They were desperate to save Mary. They had no idea why she was sick.

They're trying to get a better picture and they kept asking the two if she had been in contact with anyone that had experienced any similar things or anyone that had been diagnosed with an unusual illness. And they both said no, even though Adam presented similar symptoms not too long ago.

So if this version of events is true, is it possible something like that could have slipped their minds? Bill would later say no, Adam was sick three months ago. So if this version of events is true, is it possible something like that could have slipped their minds? Bill would later say no, Adam was six three months ago, I didn't consider that recent exposure. And I wasn't concerned because Adam had a standard GI bug and it was clear at this point Mary did not have a standard GI bug. Now knowing that Mary was poisoned, one of the first things investigators should have done is check everything she consumes on a daily basis. See where she could have gotten poisoned, right? One thing Mary was allegedly crazy about were her supplements. I feel like every health conscious person is. I'm a little bit crazy about my supplements, okay?

Her pill bottles, like her pill case, was never brought in to be tested. The investigators didn't care to hunt it down. They already felt like they knew where Mary was poisoned. They were tunnel vision and believing that she was poisoned during lunch time in her protein shake. And guess who would have access to that? Katie. Will they tested her protein powder at work? Her protein shake bottle, her almond milk that she used, and all of them were tested negative for colchizen. Not only that, but there was no evidence that she had a protein shake that day at all for lunch. In fact, later at the hospital when she was admitted, Mary told the staff, according to

hospital records, that she had a protein bar and some grilled chicken for dinner that night. But Bill had previously said that she didn't eat dinner. So it was kind of weird. There was no mention of a protein shake. Now, this doesn't really mean much because anyone could have poisoned any of the food items, but it gets really messy. Because Bill claimed during trial that Mary did not have a protein bar for lunch, she had

a protein shake. He knew this because she hated protein bars. So maybe the hospital staff were mistaken. Mary's sisters would argue, Mary ate protein bars on the regular, and why would she lie about this? It's an odd thing for Bill to lie about. Also Bill claimed Mary didn't eat dinner when she got home, but the sisters alleged that the hospital reports that she had grilled chicken. Again, why would he lie about that unless he didn't want someone to look into that grilled chicken?

Another thing to note was that Katie claimed end of 2014, beginning of 2015, when the culture scene was ordered to the office, months before Mary's murder. Katie claimed she wasn't even at work when it was ordered. She was on vacation. She asked for payroll to be submitted into evidence, but it was gone. The records were gone, which Katie and her team think is strange. Now the other parties think that if anyone could have gotten rid of those records, it could have also been Katie. And here's my thinking. What's curious to me is you don't have any records that you were on like vacation. Even if you were a photo. Yeah, even if it was like a staycation, I just feel like there must be a way to prove that you were on like vacation. Even if you were, yeah, even if it was like a staycation, I just feel like there must be a way to prove that you were.

Also, the letter of intent for purchasing the weed state today was going to be used for haploid induction in plants. That is the same process you would use to use culture zine for weeds, for weed crop. But Katie would have no idea about that. Like this is such niche specific knowledge. How would Katie know? According to the sisters, there was no record of Katie researching weed growth or the use

of culture seen with weed plants. So how would she know if she didn't Google it? But she could have, I don't know, used a library computer. I used somebody else's computer. Or some people argue that if Bill and Adam were growing weed, maybe Adam had mentioned it to her one day. They had a conversation about it. Which some people think could be kind of the right path.

So Adam mentions Colchasing and how it's used in weed. And she's like, oh, Colchasing. And later when it comes up in the list of toxins, it feels more familiar, less daunting. Speaking of the Colchasing, Bill told her in 2015, any packages that arrive in Mary's name should be given to him because it's a surprise for Mary's birthday. Katie said that she felt like it was a bit weird. This is Katie's perspective, but whatever, she handed him all the packages. Other sources say that Katie stated,

Adam was asking for packages around this time. So I'm not sure which one it is. Maybe it's both. They also stated that Adam wanted Katie back. He was the one begging for her back, but that wasn't allowed into evidence, like the text messages. Katie's team was confused on why. Maybe it was just to help paint Katie as the desperate one? So what does Adam have to do with it? The sister said that Bill and Adam started spending a lot of time together after the murder. Like, they would work way into the late hours in the office after Mary was gone. And they argued

this was probably around the time that they were planting evidence that Katie was the killer. But others would argue their loved ones just died. Mary just died. Their practice is probably a mess. If there's any time for family members to put their differences aside and try to help each other out, it's now. The sisters alleged that there were other odd things Bill said during the trial. Like he told the court that he had never heard of Colchazine prior to this, which is odd because his job goes over insurance papers, workers comp papers, and Colchazine is often used to treat

out. So either he's reckless at his job and doesn't care, or he's purposely trying to distance himself from Colchazine is what the sisters believe. They said that Bill was a walking, breathing contradiction on the stand. They said this man is physically fit. He loves camping and hiking. and on the witness stand,

he presents himself as this fragile old man with memory problems. They said that he uses proxy servers and VPNs before most people had even heard of them, especially most people their age, but on the stand he pretends to be barely, barely, literate in computers and technology. So what do they think happened? The sisters think that Adam was helping his father bill with marijuana plants. Timeline of growing seedlings is from March through May, so it's primarily indoors.

Anyways, it's very technical, but culture's in his use during that stage to get the marijuana plants growing. Adam told Katie he was gonna pay her back in full, which is like, he's not employed. And the younger parents were in debt, so where was he gonna get that kind of money? The sisters believe in April because of his potential contact

with Colchazine and the weed plants, Adam became ill. We don't know if this was by accident, or they suspect maybe Bill had put it in his drink or something, knowing that he could use Adam being sick to his advantage later on. Others speculate Adam got sick accidentally because he wasn't wearing protective gear, speaking of protective gear. Remember how I told you other odd things were found in Adam's car?

A pair of gloves, a mask and protective goggles. Could that be planted too? Possibly. Could be, but Adam said he put it there. Oh. Adam said I was going to fix my car. His car had no evidence of being fixed. So some people who believe that Adam is innocent believe that he's probably using it for weed, like planting

weed, not really for the Colchazine and trying to kill his mother. And that's why he was like, oh, I'm trying to fix my car. But the problem is the police didn't test it. I don't know why they didn't test the gloves or the goggles. Or the mask. That part I thought was weird. The whole, whatever, who cares, but the police, that's their job. Not like whatever, who cares, but you get it. It's like, he said she said, just test it. I don't get what's the big deal.

Just test it. Others speculate that Adam got sick accidentally because he wasn't wearing protective gear while he was helping grow the weed. So okay, speaking of Colchizen, what about that female voice that Rosa, the seller of the Colchazine, had heard on the phone? Why would Katie be so willing to pay for something if she had no idea which she was allegedly ordering? Mary sisters believe that it was Mary on the phone.

They said that Mary just did whatever Bill said, to not trigger his explosive temper, and she might have purchased the drug for his weed plants, and that's why her signature is on the letter of intent. They believe that either Bill or Adam put Colchazine in one of Mary's vitamin tablets or supplements, so it didn't matter if Adam was out of town or not when the murder happened because it was in the pills. And that's why the pill case was never turned in or recovered. Mary's sister wrote, I believe Bill, Leana, and Adam all knew at the hospital that Mary was dying from Colchazine poisoning, but none of them knew how she had ingested it.

I believe all of them, and my sister Kathleen, who stood by Bill, knew that Colchazine enhanced weed and was being grown under his direction and tutelage. I believe that all four of them made Katie Connolly the sacrificial lamb to protect themselves and each other from prosecution and scandal. I believe the agenda of the justice officials was to get a conviction anyway that they could, even if it meant destroying the life of a young innocent woman and letting the real killer walk. Some sources that were close to the yoder

said that Adam was very mean to Mary that he would constantly yell at her and say really uncalled things. But those close to the family said that, yeah, sometimes Adam had a temper but he would always apologize and Mary never feared Adam. Mary's sister said that, yeah, sometimes Adam had a temper, but he would always apologize, and Mary never feared Adam. Mary's sister said that Bill was an incredibly controlling husband, and Bill was the type

to want to know where Mary was at all times. Required her to check in with him several times every single day, allegedly Bill had all of Mary's online accounts, user names, passwords. They said the guy is so controlling. Apparently, he put a tracking app on Kathy's phone, claiming he wanted to keep track of her for her own safety, but the sisters felt very uncomfortable with it. They were confused where I bill kept going on trips to write in solitude.

Remember, when finances are tight, like you could have just gone into the office, they believed he was doing something strange. So, I don't know. My question is, why didn't they test the gloves, the mask, and the goggles in his car, and, why didn't they test the gloves, the mask, and the goggles in his car? And also, why didn't they test the cough drops or the inhaler that was brought to marry at the hospital? They didn't. So how could these people get away with it?

Katie was the harder perpetrator from first glance. Her story, her motive, it's harder to prove that this young girl did it than just a husband that wants money, right? The community didn't even like the decision. So why? Why not go for the arguably easier-up person? The husband, the son? Katie was from a well-respected family. Everybody loved them. It didn't make sense. The sister said the sheriff is Bill's neighbor. And allegedly, the sheriff is Bill's pot-smoking buddy. They further alleged that a retired local justice official told them that the sheriff is known for selling drugs in their large county jail. He's been selling marijuana to inmates and he's been doing it for years and maybe he was Bill's business partner.

So if they took Bill down, he would get taken down too. So did they protect Bill to protect one of their own? Because why would they give them full immunity for no reason? The sister is also alleged that Mary was a victim of violence, that she was frequently seen with bruises everywhere. They also believed that she was a bit clumsy, so yeah, they're super suspicious of Bill. They also believed that Katie was coerced into saying that she wrote the anonymous letter and that she bought those gift cards. They also stated that even if Katie wrote the letter, which she didn't, it wouldn't matter because she would have known that Coltocene was the murder weapon anyway.

So those are the main arguments that I saw Katie's team bringing it. Did that change any of your thoughts? It's a lot. Emily and Phelps wrote a book on this case and you guys know that I love him. He's great author and after years of investigating and writing about true crime, he talked to the whole Yoder family. His book is incredibly biased. I will say that, right? He talked to the whole Yoder family. He bonded with them. He did find some insider information. He claims that NBC's date line was a very biased take on

Katie being innocent. And he said that the producers were seen around town just being very cozy with Katie's family. It was very weird. The whole thing was weird. Mary's sisters have actually posted about his book, and they said that he's writing a tabloid. They claim that he has no truth, or no regard for the truth, in a seeking money. They said that the book is an obvious collaboration with Bill Yoder, and he doesn't even mention that Bill and Adam received immunity, which he didn't.

Yeah. The sisters said that they reached out to Mr. Phelps on more than one occasion, and he really didn't want yeah. The sister said that they reached out to Mr. Phelps on more than one occasion, and he really didn't want to talk to them. Someone who read the book asked the free Caitlin Conley website, or the Facebook group, how much did Bill and Adam have to pay Phelps? I just think people are really stuck on this one.

I don't know. I think even if you watch two different types of documentaries, there's a couple. If you watch the A&E one, if you watch the... Yeah, there's a couple that it's linked in the show notes. They're super against Katie, and then there's one that's super pro Katie. It's crazy, and both of them omit a lot of information. Yeah, so even the book, they didn't mention the immunity. They didn't mention a lot of these rebuttals, and the weed thing in the book was kind of glossed over as like, oh, something they did in the 80s because the 80s were crazy.

So I, I don't know, I don't know because I thought going into this, I genuinely going into this, I was like, I feel so bad, but I feel like maybe the victim's family members are just in denial maybe? But then I just keep getting confused. But there is so much evidence both ways. It's a where we now. Katie's first appeal was denied. As of September 2022, she has appealed her conviction once more. If she finishes out the rest of her sentence,

she will be eligible for parole in 2037 and she will be 46 years old. I think, okay, I saved my personal thoughts for the end. I find myself almost rooting for Katie, okay, hear me out. I find myself thinking of all those innocent people in prison right now, all the miscarriages of justice, and I find myself wanting to think that Katie is part of that number, and I'm not even sure why. I guess I just want to root for the underdog. I guess I want to believe that she's good and all these people, the husband, the son, the

daughter, the sheriff, the detective, the experts, the prosecutor that they were all mistaken. They were all working together and this is all some sort of game that they're playing. And maybe they are. Maybe I'm like way too naive to see that. Maybe I haven't done enough research. Maybe I misunderstood some of the evidence. But this just feels so complicated. So the prosecutors are basically saying, look, this evil ex-girlfriend kills her ex-boyfriend's mom as revenge, and then she tries to set him up for it. The defense is saying, look, this evil ex-boyfriend is setting up the ex-girlfriend to make it look like she killed the ex-boyfriend's mom to set him up, but it's a setup in a setup. And I don't know. Maybe it's just like my brain can't get over that.

But I will say the one thing that I keep coming back to every single time is the interrogation clip of Katie Conley. There's a small portion and I know that not everyone acts the same. It's hard to say how people would behave in that situation. But there's a part where they ask her, the question left is why Katie and she cries my life is over They asked her what drove her to do this and she responded. I'm gonna go to jail I will go to jail forever. I feel like if someone asked me what drove me to do something I didn't do I don't care if it's one time or a hundred times or the one millionth time

I think I would sit there and I would say, I didn't do it. That's, I think a lot of people have the same reaction. I saw Reddit discourse and they're like, it's just, it felt like a very weird response. The feelings, like, someone's like, realize their fate. Yes, and you can't say too much because you still don't want to confess, I guess, but maybe they also don't know how much you know so they don't want to get caught in the lie. It's kind of but I don't know, maybe more information will come out. I just

I just hope one day and I would be so open to more information, right? And I think that's how everyone should be with just anything in life. If there's more information that comes out like, oh, build it this and Katie is actually super innocent, who am I? I just hope that one day everyone involved in this case just can get the closure that they deserve. What are your thoughts? I mean, I just didn't think that there would be that many rebuttals if I'm being honest, but I would love to know your thoughts. Please stay safe, and I will see you guys on Wednesday. Bye. many were buttles if I'm being honest but I would love to know your thoughts please stay safe and I will see you guys on Wednesday bye