Rotten Mango - #24- The Chessboard Killer (Serial Killer Alexander Pichushkin)

Episode Date: November 19, 2020

64 squares on a chessboard. And each represented a victim he viciously murdered.  His trademark? Shoving a vodka bottle into the cracks of the skull he just split. The victims were almost always still alive during this.  Obsessed with the Queen's Gamebit? Got a new fascination with chess? He was obsessed too. Meet the chessboard killer.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I don't know what it is. He's just been not getting along with Mango today. And so my mom's got Mango. Tiger is with us because he is a little pussy-ass bitch and he does not know how to be alone. Welcome to today's episode of Rotten Mango. Now this is one that I please don't be mad because I know that I was supposed to do this a while ago. I know I know I know I knew that I said that I was gonna cover this and I was like you know what it's gonna be like next week and then I was like next month and now here we are. We are talking about the infamous chessboard killer. Now I feel like right now is probably the appropriate time

to talk about it because are you guys watching the Queen's Gambit on Netflix? So good. We've watched the first, I think, two episodes right now. We're a little bit late to the train, but apparently the Google trends for how to play chess has gotten up like a world time high in a really long time. How to play chess along with the popularity of Queen's Gambit.

So it seems like it is actually inspiring a lot of people to play chess. So I thought it would be appropriate to now talk about the chess board killer. I really struggle with how to describe serial killers because I find a part of me doesn't want to say that they're fascinating because I don't want to give them that credit, but it's especially this man because he really wants people's attention. He wants to be admired. That's his thing. I'm not admiring him in any way since shape form what have you right? But I will say that his story is just strange and not in the cool way. Like not in the oh my god he was so uniquely his own serial killer like he just he just like did things different, right?

But in the sense that he's just so Crazy so he confessed on national television to all of his crimes which he claims is 60 murders and three attempted murders This would make him the most prolific serial killer in Russia and probably the third most prolific serial killer in the history of serial killers internationally worldwide, Mr. International yeah. So the first two they have over 200 victims. And now these are not like hitmen. I recently talked about the ice man tapes and the ice man who was an alleged hitman for the Gambino family in New York City, and he claims to have killed

about 150 to 250 people. However, most of those were not proven, so his death toll, the police estimate is probably around 15, which still makes him a serial killer. But I find that a lot of the time serial killers are categorized as killing for killing, like killing for pleasure, killing to kill, killing to get some sort of gratification and it typically isn't money related. So if you exclude all of these hitmen, if you exclude all of these like mafia's and these gangs, right, I believe the first two most prolific are Colombian and then it would be,

I think him and then somewhere up there there's a Chinese man who murdered so many people. Yeah, this guy is up there They actually called him the maniac of Moscow He really was a maniac and it took me a really long time to research this But they just kind of call lots of people maniacs there. They don't necessarily I feel like it's a lesser use term in the United States But they kind of call anyone who's a little bit cry cry a maniac. maniac. They're like, what a fucking maniac. So, um, he was known as the maniac of Russia. Now before we get into this, I do have to talk about chess. Because I feel like if you don't understand chess, then none of this story really means of anything important, right?

And with the Queen's Gambit, I'm hoping that you guys are not going to get bored about me talking about chess, because chess in itself at first glance seems like such a boring game and my fiancé and I we recently got into chess maybe like a couple months ago we like bought this chess board we were playing chess every day I'm a complete new but I suck at chess but I find it to be incredibly enjoyable so like this is my one time that I was ahead of the trend to guys please keep that in mind I just want to take credit the only time that I can chess's origins trend to guys, please keep that in mind. I just want to take credit the only time that I can. Chess's origins are still uncertain.

They claim that it was probably started in India in the 6th century AD. So that's about 1500 years ago, which is a shit long time ago. And it's really interesting. So the way that chess works, it's a strategy game. They call it crushing your opponent's mind. That's pretty alarming. And out of all of the things that you can lose at, Chess actually ranks on the humiliation scale pretty high. So like people are actually more humiliated when they win a game of chess than let's say a game of basketball, a football.

When they lose a game? Yeah, lose a game or fortnight of among us. Like they actually get more of that humiliation sensation in their brain when they lose a game of chess because you put in your all. Like you put in your strategy. Because you tried. And it's like your IQ, it's like your fucking how well do you think? And chess is definitely one of those games that requires people to be, I mean, some of the chess players, they've got to be the most competitive people

in the world. Because here's the thing. I feel like there's really not as much adrenaline as let's say a physical sport because you're not literally running around racing your heartbeat, you're sitting there, right? And I think with chess, it's so easy if you're not competitive to zone out three moves in. Because your partner, your opponent, takes so long to come up with their move, right? And it's just like this back and forth and you could easily just be like, eh, whatever like let's just call it quits It's like the most intense game of monopoly, right?

Now they did do a survey and this was in 2012 So hopefully with the Queen's Gambit these numbers are changing But they asked people from all over the world how many times do you at least play chess once a year? Now 12% of the United Kingdom's population do you at least play chess once a year? Now 12% of the United Kingdom's population said yeah I play chess once a year. The United States it was 15% in Germany it was 23% in Russia it was 43% and in India it was 70%. So chess seems to be slightly dead in the United States in terms of average people. I know we've got a lot of champions here or they like to call it grandmasters.

Huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Now, the way that it chess is- What about China? Yeah. We play a lot of Chinese chess. They were not included in the serve way, but I know that Chinese people do play a lot

of chess and they are ranked really high in terms of like people who hold titles in China. It's very interesting. I think- But we play Chinese chess. We have a different chess board. If you go to park- Yeah. All the grandpas playing Chinese chess on the- Yeah. Chess is so underrated. The way that chess was formed, the king of India, before they were known as India, right? The king, he ruled this massive land. He was one of the most powerful people right in the history of the world and he decided to commission a

strategy game and he said listen all of you peasants all of you losers all of you everything right go make me the best strategy game ever and so all of these people would be like my king this is an anecdote so there's like no proof that this happened mind you because this was a six-century AD so like we don't really have the receipts Like we don't have like that TikTok video. That's like oh shit that happened, right? And so he's like come bring me your strategy game So they'd be like my king here is the strategy game So I call it rock paper scissors, right?

And they would do all of these things and one dude brought him a chess board and he was obsessed with it He was like this is the best thing ever. So what do you want for this? You know because you made this game. I'll give you a little price Is it the rice? Yes, and the man said oh well my king I will give you two options because you're a man of many options Option number one is that you could pay me my weight in gold and you know I'm a pretty hefty dude, maybe 150 pounds of gold. I mean how much money is that? I don't even freaking know. And the second option is you put one grain of rice on the first square of the chess board, two grains of rice on

the second, four grains of rice on the third and you just multiply it by each chess square. So the king, he looked at them and said, you know what, I'll give you some grains of rice. Come here, bring me your chess board. Now, this point halfway through, he realized that's about 10 tons of rice. And then to fill the whole 64 squares on the chess board, it would be 1.2 trillion tons of rice that didn't exist not only in his kingdom,

but in all the kingdoms combined. So in, he just killed the dude he was like you know what I've got to bet I'm gonna bet a solution how about you get neither and I kill you because I'm the king again this is an antique doubt I really hope that the creator of chess was not just slaughtered like that but I don't know. No that's's not the... Because we used the same story before. Really? For a different story. So it was like someone came up with a whole thing.

The king was like, I will reward you anything you want. He said, okay, so just for rice in the chess board, and the king said, easy peasy ho ho. And then the king went bankrupt. But also easy peasy. If you had your kingdom, you'd be the most eloquent classy king ever. Now let's talk about Russia, because the chessboard killer does take place in Russia, and Russia's roots with chess is really intense. So ever since the USS SR, that was too many S's.

Before Russia was Russia, they were the USS R. Yes, history class was poppin', but I'm gonna make it a little fun, okay? Now the KGB they loved it if you don't know about the KGB Let me tell you about them. They're like the CIA, but they don't really follow rules But they also kill a lot of people, but they're also really scary and they're exactly what you would think about like USSR's intelligence committee like it's gonna be fucking nuts Okay, they were known to do some crazy ass shit. And in the KGB training handbook, they had a whole ass section on chess. I don't know about you,

but the CIA back in the day when they were known as something else, they didn't have shit like that. Like Russia was obsessed with chess because they said it's like going a war on a piece of board. It's all strategy. It's all ponds, like losing something to gain something, trying to understand everyone's positions, and they just were obsessed with it. Now during World War II, they actually used chest as a way to disguise their communications. Again, this has not been proven, but that's

what a lot of the allied forces believe because a lot of communications were found. And these Russian KGB officers, they would just talk to each other about a chess game and they would be like, and then they moved it to like, you know how like they're like a a-twenty, I don't even know chessboard squares, I don't know, I don't, you move them, I don't like say them right? And it would just be random, it would just be like anyways, how's your day, I heard about like the battle, blah blah blah and then they would just suddenly start talking about like chess moves. So they were like okay, like each pawn, each bishop must symbolize something and they're moving it to wherever they already discussed, they were moving it to. So they would write to each other about

these chess games and they use those notations to describe their next move. So the USSR, I keep doing too many s's. How many s's there? Two, the U S S R. No, I'm doing the right amount. Yeah. I'm wondering if it sound like USS Sosar, sorbiet. And if you guys have watched the imitation game, it's about the German rotor cipher. So again, this isn't the second world war. Oh my god, Henshorie. And the Germans, they created this machine called the enigma. And it's a rotor cipher. Now a lot of rotor ciphers exist. The Germans weren't like the first ones to come up with that I believe, but essentially it's kind of like a typewriter, but it's got all of these rotors. And once you know the exact positions to turn the rotors, it will scramble your messages. And it is nearly impossible for anybody else to decode it

unless you know the exact positions that the rotors need to be in in order for you to decode the message. Now the allied forces, they actually get. In order for you to decode the message. Now, the allied forces, they actually get a, they get their hands on the Enigma machine. And in the UK, they get this entire camp. I, we saw this movie, the entire camp and they bring in mathematicians, linguists, people who understand hydroclifics and their entire task, they live on this base and eat, sleep, and do everything on this base is to decode the enigma machine. And this is actually one of the reasons

that the Allied forces won the Second World War and the reason that we live in the United States, that is the United States today, which I don't really know if that sounds a lot, but that is why. Right? And so a lot of these people who are brought in, they were brought in just for their sheer ability to play chess. Is that not crazy? That's crazy. So most of the people were brought in from math, linguistics, hieroglyphics, and then they brought in a group of people who were just fucking gnarly at chess.

Why is that? They're just really good with patterns, possibilities and all of those things. I wonder what people, what, what's the requirement to be a great chess player? Is it higher IQ or? I feel like it's, well, actually, now that you bring that up, this is not even something that I researched for this, but there was a woman. She was one of the very few women that ever rang to top five or top No, I think it was top 10 top 10 or top five in terms of world chess players

Predominantly chess players like the grandmasters tend to be male for whatever reason Right, and she was one of the very few women who rang to super high and she was actually an experiment so her dad wanted to prove that Geniuses are created not born and ever since she was young. She was homeschooled and she made hair and her siblings just study chess Like and their family isn't like necessarily the smartest people like the parents didn't go to like an Ivy League Well, they were European, you know, they didn't go to like the best schools. They were just like normal dudes Yeah, and they just raised one of the biggest chess chess geniuses. Yeah, so what does that mean that so Chess it doesn't take IQ to be the best

Just no, I don't think so. It just takes practice. I think it takes practice Typically people who are good with chess are tend to be better with math is from what I read Just because you do have to do about the probability of every move and shit. So that's necessarily made for the impatient people like me. I don't know why I like chess. And I like it very recreationally, by the way. If you put me at a park with old dudes playing chess,

oh my god, I would get wrecked. I would get wrecked, OK? I'm only good at chess. When my opponent doesn't know how to play chess. No, when Stephanie's opponent is a computer, difficult level easy. Yes, that's okay. And he's like, you know what, baby, you should play medium.

I'm like nah, why would I do that to my ego? I just, I don't want to be put in my place today. I want to feel good. And so, I don't want to be put in my place today. I want to feel good. And so a couple of those people, notable people, there was a guy by the name of Alan Turing. He was really, really, really good with chess and he actually helped decode the enigma. Later on, he was actually credited with developing the first computer code to allow computers to play chess. And then there was another guy who worked on the enegma machine and his name was Hugh O'Donnell Alexander and he was a chess master.

He won the British title two times and he's got two like moves. You know how the Queen's Gambit is about a move, right? He's got Petrov's defense and the Dutch defense that are still being used today that he created that are named after him. Is that not crazy? That's freaking crazy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The USSR is intense.

So in 1930, the USSR, they actually banned blindfolded chess. Because in Russia, everybody was getting so good at chess that they decided, wait a second, like it's not fun. Like we're all so good at chess. Like the only way to get a thrill from this is if we start blindfolding ourselves. So they would play chess blindfolded

and they would as they move they would just say moving to like this square. Like wings get it. Yeah, so you would have to picture it in your head. That's insane. But so many people got injured from this. Why? Because it was mentally exhausting. So a lot of them would like just like fucking faint while they were playing chess like recreationally, like imagine going over to your friend's house and they're like, let's just play blindfolded chess and then you'll pass out. So that's what happens when you use your brain, like too much. Yeah.

So that happens to some people. Someone died, a Russian player died. Doing blindfolded chess, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they banned it for health hazards, literally for health hazards. It's kind of crazy. And then in 1959, the USSR, they had an Antarctica base, so they have like this base in Antarctica

right at the time. And you know, there's really not that much to do in Antarctica, like what are you going to do, like hang out with some polar bears. I honestly don't know how Antarctica works, obviously. And so all they would do at this base is that these USSR soldiers would play chess. And one of them got so mad that he got beat by his colleague that he grabbed an axe and murdered his base mate with an axe. And so the USSR was like, all right, anybody who's in Antarctica, y'all can't play chess.

Like that was it. They were like, you can't. Yeah, it's so strange. I mean, chess is a weird... So chess culture is that was it. They were like you can't. Yeah, it's so strange. I mean, chess is a weird. So chess culture is popping in Russia. Yeah, chess culture is popping. Chess is intense. So the ray that chess is ranked because I mean if you watch Queen's Gambit, you're gonna kind of understand, right? So the most recognition, internationally recognized nationally, ranking, while that was really confusing, is like this. So you start with novices or beginners, and then you have class

or category, D, C, B, A, and then you have what's called a candidate master, which means that you're an expert at chess. After you pass all of these, now you're a candidate master. You're maybe an expert. And then the next level is the National Masters. And then you've got the International Masters. And then you've got the Grand Masters. And then you've got this, which is a crazy level, they don't even really have a proper term, but they're just colliquely, colliquely, just well known as the Super Grand Masters. Wait, so Grand Masters, not the hardest? No, there's one more and they're called the super grandmasters

and they're really rare. So for example, you would think like, okay, like how much of the world plays chess? There's got to be a lot of super grandmasters. I'm sure it's like NFL players, how many NFL players we got? We got a lot, right? Yeah. But Russia has 12 super grandmasters yeah but Russia has 12 super grandmasters currently China has six super grandmasters the US it they tie in fourth with

three super grandmasters and they're tied with India and Ukraine that's it yeah so it's like literally 20 people yeah I mean there's a couple more but yeah that's crazy how how's that ranked so the chess is okay there's a couple more but um yeah, that's crazy. How how's that ranked? So uh, chess is okay. There's like math and ranking too. Is that not crazy? Okay. So your ranking can constantly change. It's like your ratio of how many games you've played and how many times you've won or some shit like that and then also with some other things. If you go to their Wikipedia, there's like a whole ass formula for ranking chess players and I'm like, oh my god. So you will gotta be good at chess, but you also got to do the math on how you're ranked. It's crazy. So every competition counts your score. Yeah.

The final ranking. And so your ranking moves up and down all the time. So imagine how stressful that is. So every game matters. Yeah. Yeah. And so right now I believe the number one player, he is Norwegian and then the second player is an Italian American, we've got a Chinese and the Russian. So that's kind of like the international ranking right now. And they, I mean most of the top chess players, they're millionaires. There's not as much money as other sports per se, but they do make money, yeah. Like chess games, if you win the title, you get like a million dollars sometimes. Yeah.

I know it's kind of crazy because you would think that chest would make more money than like a fortnight But um, no, like I don't know why I just thought chest is so old lots of smart people play chess I see making money. I mean, I'm imagine chess will make more money if there's more people who's interested in like watching Yeah, like cleans gambit And then boom, you know. But like you did notice that they cut away most of the playing parts because like can you imagine sitting in a stadium with two dudes sitting on the table and then you're just like watching the pieces. Yeah. And you're just like cool.

Yeah. Yeah. Like how would you even have an announcer for that and then he moved the night like I mean I don't know right. Yeah. So it's really insane. There's also a lot of cheating interests. So one of the most controversial cheating scandals

that has happened is a grandmaster was caught googling in the bathroom in the middle of a chess match. Googling? What? Just like about the next move, the probability and shit. What? A grandmaster?

Yeah, and then a couple other masters were caught, a couple other experts were caught. In the middle of a competition, they would have like their friends and family stationed in the gallery, which is where people watch who play chess. And with every move, someone would get texted that would be at home on a computer with text them back and they would move in the gallery. That would signal a different move. So so many people get caught for that. And then another one that was really controversial is a man during his chess match was brought

Blueberry Yogurt. And the opponent got so pissed and was like, what the fuck does the blueberry mean? Like the blueberry is a signal. I know the blueberry is a signal. And everyone was like, what are you talking about? It's just yogurt. And he was like, no, fuck you and your blueberry yogurt. And so finally, they were like were like okay from now on the

Same snack is getting delivered to both players at a predetermined time because like there was this whole blueberry yogurt controversy I Know what doesn't sound as interesting as like um like you're deflated football controversies, you know I know I'm like blueberry yogurt doesn't sound as scandalous, but I swear I was scandalous people are freaking out about it I swear I was scandalous. People were freaking out about it. I swear. It's weird. It's weird. Listen, I know chess is boring, okay.

Like I know Queen's Gambit makes it so fun, but like chess is boring. Like let's be real. Chess is not the funnest game ever, okay? I play this game called Zuba, that's fun. It's like a mobile game, whatever. So I know that I'm putting you to sleep right now and I just thought as you're about to knock out, think about this, think about laying down on your bed, listening to me talk

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offering up to $200 off all mattress orders and two free pillows for you guys at helixleap.com slash rotten. Damn it, I have one more chest story, but like, are we bored of chest? No, there's this guy. No, it's a chest story. I don't know why, I'm like so into this. So I feel like chest has like this weird mystery surrounding it. I mean, it's such an old game

that there's gotta be some weird shit, right? And this is one of those instances. So there's this guy by the name of Asset Bernstein and he was actually a Ukrainian chess player. So he was a lawyer at the time. He won master titles in Berlin. He moved to Moscow to be a financial attorney, and during the red tear of 1918, this was like when everybody was getting arrested for literally doing nothing, just breathing, just being alive, and he was being arrested for being an attorney to a bunch of bankers, and

the USSR just like did not like that They were just like you're not gonna do that and so he started he got kidnapped Well, he got arrested and he was lined up before a firing squad because they are like really efficient people So they were like we're not gonna do this one by one like we're just gonna like line y'all up and then just like boob boob boob, right like dominoes and they lined him up and this little general he's like reading off the names just to verify that it's not the wrong people right because imagine the scandal so he's like reading off all these names and then he's like wait a sip brain stain I know this guy he's like a nationally ranked chess player so he's like

wait are you that chess master that's on the news and all sorts like yeah that's me and he goes nah you're not the chess player and all sorts like yeah that's me and he goes nah you're not the chest player and he's like nah I'm the chest player and he's like cap you're lying and he's like no I am the chest player and he says okay okay then what did you show me why don't we play around the chest if you're so good at chest right and so they sit down they play a chest and he says if you can beat me I'll let you go. And it was? Yes, the fastest game ever and he wrecked the general and he beat him and he ran for his

life. I mean, he said that he could run. He didn't say like you're immune. We're not going to arrest you again. So he actually got to. Oh. Yeah, so he ran away. He got to chase him.

Yeah, so he ran away penniless. Like he was making a ton of money. He was a wealthy dude so he ran away penniless. Like he was making a ton of money. He was a wealthy dude. And he ran away penniless to Paris. Oh. So it technically saved his life. It saved his life, yeah. Which is crazy.

Now let's get into the chess board killer. Because it's going to get gruesome. It's going to get dark. It's going to get weird. It's going to get freaking nuts. So that's what chess, too. Yeah. So today we are talking about Alexander Puchiskin.

I really want to say some nasty stuff right now. Okay, I really suck at saying his name. I honestly should have asked our Russian friend for his name, but we were really busy asking her about something else. So, I might be calling this man's Sasha throughout this entire story, because here's one thing, right? We've got these close Russian friends and one thing that we've noticed is any time that we go to a gathering with him, we have this Russian friend who's named Alex, right?

We just call him Alex, but I'm sure his full name is Alexander, but all of his friends who are Russian, they call him Sasha. So we're like, what's this going on? Like, is that like a nickname? Like, they just call you Sasha, is that your middle name? Like, why are you called Sasha, right Sasha? We never asked because we thought... I thought it was like saying like, Opa, or something like that, like younger brother or older brother. But then I googled it and I started seeing that all the Alexander's were nicknamed

Sasha. That's so weird. I'm trying to think, how do I Google? Why is every Alexander in Russia nicknamed Sasha? I'm like, that's weird. I don't know if this is going to be credible information. So we texted our Russian friend about why is every Alexander named Sasha? And she hit us back with, well, why is every William called Will? And we're just like, that is not what you do understand.

And then she's like, by the way, Alex is an English name. We don't have an Alex. We've got Alexi or Alexander. Yeah, Alexander. Yeah, because we're like, why are Alexi's called Sasha? And she was like, those don't exist. And I could ask you the same, why is every William will? And it was like that.

That's, I feel like the appropriate one would be like, why is every Richard named Dick? That one I still don't get. But so we don't know, but he's. But they are, they're all Sasha. They're all Sasha. Yeah, and so we're like, that doesn't make sense. And she just said Google it.

And Google wasn't really helpful. So now we're here. So Sasha, Alex, Alexander, what should we call it? Maybe Sasha, it's easier. So Sasha, he lived in the south part of Moscow and very close to this park called Bitsesky Park and they just kind of call it Bits Park for short. And it's like this massive foresty land park. I mean, lots of people love going there. During the winter it's used for cross-country skiing. So massive foresty land park. I mean lots of people love going there during the winter

It's used for cross-country skiing. So this is a big park So dip it in comparison central park is about 843 acres now this park in Moscow is 2,700 acres so it's massive So if you see some dead bodies in there might take some time It might take some time for people to find that, right? And people loved playing chess there. You had a bunch of older people playing chess there, just like sitting there. Like you said about China,

like they just sit at the park and play chess, right? And now surrounding this park were these huge apartment buildings. Now I know what you think, and oh my god, Central Park Square, like it's going to be like these most fancy, like the richest of Moscow live there, right? It actually wasn't like that at all. This was the South part of Moscow, and this known as the USSR's like first housing project. So it was grim.

It was concrete. I mean the buildings were just always rusty. Even like when they went up, they were rusty already and people just did not like living there. It was a 30 minute train ride to Moscow. So it was kind of, it was not a situation that you wanted to find yourself in but if you found yourself there you were grateful to have shelter and the way that they called it in Moscow was they called it Zopa Mira, I don't know if that's I'm definitely not pronouncing it right but it's translated to the asshole of the world. Wait, say that one more time. What did you say? The asshole of the world. Oh this area. Yeah, so like if the world is like a beautiful lady. This is like the butthole It's like so everyone's like so we like it

So we good This mad elegant and we fucking But no, no, no I feel like 2020 makes it harder, you know know, to try, it gets lost in translation. This was meant to be a mean saying. This was meant to be like nobody wants to go there, but then in 2020 we're like, so we fucking ha. So we go in there ha.

So it's my birthday ha. Yeah, it was just known as the asshole of the world. And in the asshole of the world, there was a woman by the name of Natasha Pucci Kischina, right? And this is Sasha's mom. So Natasha is Sasha's mom, and she actually moved into these housing projects when she was 11 years old with her parents, and she would live the rest of her life there, and Sasha would live the rest of his life there. It was just, she called it overcrowded, charmless, but it was still an improvement for just like, not having shelter.

Now, Natasha gets married. She gives birth to a son by the name of Alexander, and her husband immediately moves out by the time like he's like one. So he just gets abandoned by his dad. Now what's interesting though, is that his house is not abusive. Like nobody inside of his home is abusive.

His mom was actually just a very, very hardworking, single mom. And Sasha, he was really well liked by his neighbors. They also thought he was sociable. He was just well adjusted. He was just like the sweetest kid ever until he was four years old. Now this, I could go down a deep rabbit hole on this. When he was four years old, he gets on I could go down a deep rabbit hole on this. When he was four years old, he gets onto this little swing,

and he starts swinging, like the ones at the playground. I'm not laughing. I'm not laughing, I'm sorry. And then as he's swinging, he falls off backwards, and the swing is still swinging because you know, quantum physics.

I don't know. No. And so, this swing is still swinging because you know, quantum physics. I don't know. And so, the swing is still swinging. Okay, this head. He like gets up to be like, oh my god, I had a smell. And then this swing just hit him on his forehead. Okay. Now, I don't know what kind of swings they have in Russia, but it was a really big dent to his butt. Cool. So there was a really big dent

So there's a dent like he got hit really hard Yeah, like is there a dent or no? Yeah Okay, it's just a reason I'm laughing The reason I'm laughing is because in hindsight and I'm sure if you come back to this after you know about Sasha, you're gonna laugh because he grows up wanting to be like this tough dude and just like, oh I want to be the like the most crazy serial killer in Russia and then you're just like dude you just got hit by his story. Like I don't know something about it. Just makes me want to laugh at him. How do you, how do you such a weird little story made it? See that's what I thought to but did you know there's other

serial killers who had a frontal lobe damage because they got hit by a swing. I can't What is happening? Sorry. Usually there's other serial killer. Yes That it got specifically hit by a swing. So swings are dangerous. Swings can really just create serial killers, honestly Yeah, you know how they're like, are these monsters born or made? Yeah, they're made by swings. So you get hit by this swing on his frontal lobe, the front of his brain, right? Like right on his forehead.

And it damaged the frontal lobe of his brain because when you're a kid, like the amount that your skull and that your skin and all of these things that are supposed to protect your brain, I mean, it does a fraction of what it would do when you're a full grown adult. That's why you're like, you have to be very gentle with like baby's heads, right? Support the neck, all that jazz. And this is really, really bad. So this is kind of an indicator, your frontal lobe, it helps you with problem solving, with impulse regulation, with personality traits. A lot of people who get frontal low of damage, they have a

tendency towards being aggressive. They're just, they're just, yeah. And so before the sensitive happened, I mean, he was a really sensitive kid. So a lot of people would say that one time his cat had died, he didn't kill his cat, but his cat had died and he was hiding

in the stairwell, just like crying his eyes out over the death of his cat. Like he was just like a regular kid, just uncontrollable, like his cat just died. And then afterwards, he really never showed any emotion unless it was violence, anger, and hatred. And a lot of this makes sense. So a lot of killers have frontal lobe issues. So the Night Stalker, aka Richard Ramirez, not the original, but the second Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez. He actually was, he's one of the more famous serial killers in the US, so he invaded a bunch of homes in California all the way from like Northern California to Southern California, and he would just like kill people with a machete. He was a really gruesome dude. He would also, he would leave like a pentagon, pentagons all over the place.

Like he was an avid Satanist, but I don't know if he really was a true Satanist. It's complicated. Anyways, when he was young, a dresser fell on him. So he had a little bit of frontal lobe damage from that. And then when he was five years old, he was knocked unconscious by a swing. And ever since that swing knocked the dude unconscious, he would have epileptic seizures all throughout his childhood. Swings are dangerous remember John Wayne Gacy we covered him on the podcast the killer clown well he hit his head on a swing as well and that caused a blood clot in his brain and that

went undiscovered for like five years and he would have like blackouts he had hard-a-rhythmia like he was he got really messed up by that swing. Lots of people were hit by swings. Yeah, in frontal lobe damage is serious. Like we talked about Fred West, he got into that motorcycle accident and then became super violent. It sounds crazy to just be like, and then a swing hit him and they had, and then he just like wanted to kill people. But like, it seems like it's very frequent. There's like a connection. It's very intense.

So he has this massive personality change. Now Sasha is just this hostile aggressive kid and it got to the point where his mom had to pull him out of ordinary school and Sent him to a school for the disabled Now the reason for that was because at the ordinary school he was constantly bullied a lot of the times He will call to him and I quote that retard Yeah, so it is not just a good situation, but apparently the school for the disabled was not a good situation either. The only person who believed in Sasha though was Natasha's dad, his grandpa.

His grandpa sees Sasha and is like, listen, I think Sasha is intelligent. I think he's born with something. I think he got some potential and his talent is being wasted at the school. So the school essentially is focusing on like how to deal with your disability, how to confront people, how to overcome your disability, like it had everything to do with disability because that's what all the kids had. So they wanted to give them all these skills so that you know later on in life they could put them to use. But you know Sasha's grandpa is like why? Why should he be in this

school? He should be in a school that promotes achievement and success and grades and all the other things that everybody else is focusing on. And so his grandpa is like, no, no, no, no, no, Sasha, you're gonna come live with me for the time being. So he goes to his grandpa's house and he starts living with his grandpa. And that's where he gets taken to the park

almost every single day for his grandpa to play some chess with some other people. And he starts learning some chess. Now he starts getting good. I mean, I really don't want to praise the guy in any way, but apparently he was amazing at chess. Like, he beat all the old people at the park. And when I say old people, there's like this weird connotation that they weren't good

and they were slow, but I mean, these people have been playing chess for like their whole lives in Russia right so he was good like think Queen scam bit good right and it was a place for him to Dominate like it was like it is outlet for anger like he couldn't go around and bring their hostility and aggression to people Physically so he just took it out on the chessboard and he had so much fun Then he was still bullied in school, just like all of his childhood, and then his grandpa ended up dying.

And that was traumatizing. And then soon after his grandpa died, his dog died. He was a huge animal lover. That was his only regret. After killing 60 people, they asked him, like, do you regret anything? Do you have nightmares? And he said that he wasn't as nice to his dog

as he could have been. That was his regret. He's like, yeah, I brutally murdered people, but like my dog, but same. That's weird. Yeah. So he's the one serial killer, which this is why a lot of people say that he, his case kind of changed the world in terms of, um, psychologist and psychiatrist really had a fucking moment with his case because it's very confusing. Was it the frontal lobe damage? Was it really the swing that made him this way?

He was an animal lover, he was bullied, but he never really started fires, he wasn't abused, he never went to bed, and it's just strange, and he also didn't have a victim, like a victim that he loved. He didn't have like a, oh I like, you know, Ted Bundy had his college girls, right? He didn't really have that. He just wanted to kill people. That's it. So the psychology or the psychologist are thinking that it could be just a specific

damage. Yeah. And it like sent them on a loop. Like it was really weird because it's just a kind of deconstructed everything we knew to be a serial killer. So it's just like, of deconstructed everything we knew to be a serial killer. So it's just like, okay, this is very strange. And so his grandpa dies, he's really sad about it. He goes back to living with his mom, and that's when he starts doing lots of smart shit. Like his favorite book was actually Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People.

That was his favorite book. So he was, I couldn't find anywhere that would tell me his IQ, not that that's like your, you know, that's to say if you're smart or not, but it seems like he was a really intelligent person. I would assume he was intelligent enough to be that good at chess. So he was a smart dude, but he was severely aggressive and depressed. And so as a young teenager, he started turning to vodka was just drinking non-stop. And the very interesting thing is he would learn that he could bring vodka to all of these old chess players And they would drink the vodka and they would get affected in terms of how they play but he would never Sasha would never Sasha could drink two bottles of vodka and be like checkmate bits

Yeah, it just wouldn't affect him like that and that's when he started kind of getting into some hobbies. So this is like when he's like 17 years old, just to put it in perspective that he's freaking young. He would bring these video cameras around. Like he would, he's like a vlogger. He would bring this video camera around and every time you saw a kid, he would grab that kid, take them to a high up building and kind of hold them outside of a 10th floor window. Like the 10th floor window, like half their body would be hanging out

the 10th floor window, and he would say things like, you were in my power now, and I'm gonna drop you from the window. You're gonna fall 10 stories, and you're gonna die. And the child would be like screaming and like crying, and he would not kill the child, he would bring the child back,

but he would re-watch those tapes to feel powerful. Like imagine just like sitting there re-watching those. It's like, oh my god, do you hear the terror in his voice? Yeah. And so he's living with his mom and his half-sister Katya and his brother-in-law Alexander. So lots of Sasha's, okay? And they also have Sergei, who is the half-sister's son, so his nephew, and to give you a perspective of the living situation, so Sasha would actually sleep on the couch in the living room, and 10 feet away from him was a randomly placed queen-sized bed room, or queen-sized bed,

that his mom slept on, 10 feet away from him. And there was only like one real room, so this was kind of closed off from the kitchen and stuff, but it was still not necessarily a room. Like most people would have used it as like a living room, right? And then the bedroom itself was for his half sister, her husband, and their son, six year old son, Sergei. So it was just like cramped. people said it always smelled like a strong odor of just sweat and cooking oil That was just kind of the scent and in 1992 That's when Andre Chica Tio was convicted of 53 murders. Do you remember him? This is where I brought up the chessboard killer and everyone's like do the chessboard killer

So he was actually known as the butcher of Russia the you know the vampire of Russia you get it He had a boner issue, he couldn't get it up, and so he was so upset about it, so he went on to go kill 53 people. He was like, why can't my dick get hard? And he murdered people. And he would gouge out their eyes. Maybe this will bring it back to you.

He would gage out people's eyes because he believed in the Russian superstition that your eyes will take a picture of the last thing that you see When you die and so he's like, I don't want the police going and like scanning their eyeballs for that little picture for that Instagram pic and it's like me gauging their eyes out So that's what he did Now in 1992 his entire trial if you remember that podcast was publicized

It was all over TV in Russia. He was sitting in this cage, he was like taking off his pants, threatening to rape more people. Like it was intense, right? And Sasha sitting there watching this, and he felt a sudden sting of competition. You know, this dude was getting all this attention for being the most prolific serial killer in Russia 53 people the most prolific I feel like I could do more And so he's sitting there getting upset and he goes you know what would be fun If I killed 64 people

Why? To fill the chest board to fill up my chest board to fill the chestboard. To fill up my chestboard. Geez. And so he says, you know, that kinda seems fun. And this was five days after his 18th birthday. And he said, for my 18th birthday, I'm gonna gift myself murder.

So his first murder happened when he was 18 years old. He had invited his friend over. His name was Mikal Adichuk. I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna stop his name was Mikal Right and he said listen, we're gonna go on a killing expedition We're gonna walk through the park and look for people to kill and so his friend is like what that's a weird I'm in and he's walking around and you know Asasha was really open about it. Asasha was like I can't wait to kill like this is gonna be so much fun

I can't wait to kill with you dude like be so much fun. I can't wait to kill with you, dude. You're my friends and I feel like murder is gonna be one of those things that's gonna bond us together. And I think you're gonna have fun, too. I've been fantasizing about it. I feel like it's gonna be a whole load of fun. And you're probably gonna experience it with me. And his friend was like, yeah, yeah, sounds good. And I think honestly, the whole time his friend was like, this dude's crazy.

He's not gonna do anything, right? So they're walking around. They're pointing at potential victims. And they find one the friends like okay but like we can stop like fantasizing and role-playing now like let's just go get some food and he's like what do you mean you're not down for the kill. And so he's like no and so he's like well then you're not my friend so I gotta kill you so his friend, Mikael, in the middle of that park. Don't you think that was his plan all along? I don't know, it's hard to say.

I feel like it is. It might be because later on he will say this, the closer the person is to you, the more pleasant it is to kill, because it's more emotional. Yeah, because think about it like it's not something you switch your mind on like that. Last one. How do you know?

How do you went from this is my friend to someone I'm going to kill now? Like you see what I mean? Like, you're my fiance and next second you're someone I'm killing. Like that doesn't add up. I mean it does in this relationship but I also was thinking yeah that also shows that let's say that dude he had he is playing on killing him right I've never seen someone would invite the victim over and they asked the victim hey why don't we go kill someone together and then switch on them in the middle. It's almost like a chess move.

I don't like that. I don't like that. I don't like that. You know what I mean? Because they are so kind of least expected that you're going to kill them because they thought they're on your team. And you just switch on them. Yes, and you just switch on them. I don't like this. I don't like this at all, dude. So he kills his friend. Now, this one's not going to be that particularly brutal, brutal because he's, I mean, in the beginning, he's really just trying to find out his style later on. You're going to die with his mo and how he likes to kill people, right? And after this, I mean, he's quoted to say some of the craziest serial killer quotes, like if you think about the scariest thing a serial killer can say to you, this is one of them. He said, for me, life without killing is life

without food. Yeah. So after this, he takes a nine year hiatus and less than less. Wait, after this one, yeah. The first killing. Uh-huh. He takes a nine-year hiatus. Now let me tell you something. Sometimes I take a hiatus. Sometimes I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, pump the brakes, pump the brakes. I need to talk to a counselor. And that's why I love better health.

I've been talking about them for a really long time and I'm pretty open about my mental health. I tend to be pretty anxious as a person. I think I'm just wired that way and I feel like it was something that was just interfering with my happiness. Like I was always so anxious that I couldn't really enjoy myself and it prevented me from honestly achieving a lot of my goals and it still kind of does and that's why I use better help. So what they do is they assess your needs and they match you with your own license professional therapist and the best part is you can start communicating in under 48 hours.

I remember when I went to a traditional therapist in office, it would take me weeks to get an appointment. It would take, like they wouldn't even pick up their phone call. And it's like, listen, I kind of like want to talk to someone right now, but like fine, I'll just like wait five weeks when maybe my problems will be a completely different set of problems. That's fine. Should I take notes and bring them? And so that's why I love better help.

Like 48 hours, you just start talking. And they have a broad range of expertise available, which might not be locally available in a lot of areas. And it's not a crisis line. It's not a self-help line. It's professional counseling done securely online. And it's available worldwide So you just log into your account at any time send a message to your counselor and you'll get a timely and thoughtful response plus

Plus if you're interested you can schedule weekly video or phone session So you never really have to sit in like that uncomfortable waiting room of traditional therapy and the best part is They're committed to making sure that you get a good match So they make it easy and free to change counselors if needed, because all their counselors are amazing, but every person's different. And it's a lot more affordable than traditional offline counseling and financial aid is available. So better help wants you to start living a happier life today. You can actually visit their website and read testimonials that are posted daily

and join over the 1 million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. Right now, for Rotten Mangoers, you guys can actually get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com-slash-run. That's better-h-e-l-p.com-slash-run. He just takes a 9-year hiatus. So a lot of psychologists think that during this time either he was fighting his urge to not kill or it could have been because he was briefly considered a suspect for his friend's murder because he was like seen with his friend that day.

So they like briefly question him so maybe he was so scared for nine years. I'm not entirely sure. I mean, he never said anything which is crazy because Sasha is a talkative person. He will tell you his opinions on God, life, art, beauty, and all of that. He even gets married in person. It's weird. And so he takes this nine-year hiatus, and then he starts developing an MO. He just wants to kill people.

So he decides using the information that he gets from Dale Carnegie's How to Win, friends and influence people. That the way to find someone that he can influence is to find the most vulnerable and the only people So he'd go to the park and he would people watch and he would look around and he would point out who looks like they want to talk to someone That's crazy that that book is such an influence on how you're dead things by him. Yeah, because it's a very famous book. Yeah, we have the book I tried reading that book. Very helpful. And it... It's...

That book is... I don't... Okay. Maybe it's my personality though, because... You're finally helpful. Um, it just sounds too aggressive for me. How do we inference in? Yeah, and like I tried to briefly read it. Maybe I should finish it. Maybe then I'll have some friends, but...

So far, it kind of reminds me of the book, The Art of Power, which by the way, fun fact is banned in prisons. Yeah. The same dude who wrote The Art of Seduction and stuff, the 48 laws of war, whatever. Yeah, The Art of Power. It kind of reminds me of that. It's just like two calculated.

And then I feel like I don't want to live life calculated like that. So I don't really like books of that. It's just like two, two calculated. And then I feel like I don't want to like live life calculated like that. So I don't really like books like that, but he got a lot of inspo from that book. So he starts just going around trying to find people that look vulnerable. And this is what's called the sewer period. Listen, I'm telling you, it's crazy. This serial killer is known to have two different periods. The first one is the sewer period. And this lasted from 2001 to 2005, right?

And this is about 32 different people disappear and get murdered by him during this time. So a lot of people start disappearing. Most of them were either homeless, elderly, addicts, or recently released prisoners. So a lot of the times the police did not give a fork. And you're talking about the south side of Moscow, where it just wasn't like wealthy families everywhere.

They weren't necessarily professionals, right? And so the police just didn't feel inclined to look at them. Now, the community itself was getting scared because they're like, I'm talking to, also I think, Babushka means Ajima. So I saw a lot of articles referring to a bunch of Babushka's who were talking to each other. I feel like it means like, I'd be mad.

Like, um, you know, don't quote me on that. And so all of them were like talking to each other like, hey, did you hear about Fred? He went missing. Well, did you hear about him? No, he didn't go get a job in Moscow. He's, he's a drunk. Like, they were just kind of getting confused because it seems like more and more. People were going missing and it's like fine You could say one person just like didn't tell anyone that they were going into the city or like one person moved away without telling anyone But 32 different people like that doesn't make sense right and the way that he would do this is Sasha would wait outside

People watch and then he would slowly go up to that person and just start talking to him He would be friend them how to that person and just start talking to him. He would be friend them. How to win friends and influence people. He would be friend them. He would be so nice to them and then he would say, hey, so I just buried my dog. You know, my dog just died. And that's a lie. His dog died like nine years ago and I buried the dog deep into the woods and you know,

I got this bottle of vodka. I want to go pour one out for my dog. Do you want to come with me? I got this bottle of vodka. I wanna go pour one out for my dog. Do you wanna come with me? I'll give you free vodka. And so a lot of the times it'd be like, hell yeah, vodka. So the reason that this is kind of important

is because the south side of Moscow was notoriously known for like most men were into vodka. Like they just drank on a daily basis, right? And so they were like, hell yeah, vodka. And so they'd be walking into the woods and you'd be like, oh, it's just over there. So they just keep walking. And one of the conversations he remembers, which is so sad, is that he asked one of his victims, what's your life wish? And the victim looked at him and said, to stop drinking, because he was an addict, you

know? And he said, I promise you, today will be the last day that you drink. Oh my gosh. And he didn't take it as anything. He kind of took it as like a endearing like, yeah, you're right. Starting tomorrow, I'm going to change my life, right? And so they keep walking into the woods. And there are two wells inside of this park, like these deep 15 foot wells, and all of them lead into the connected city's vast sewer system. This sewer system is massive, right? So you drop something into the well, it's in the fucking sewer system. Like it's not just like ground or a little bit of water.

It's in the sewer system, right? So it's like the best way to close bodies. Yeah. And so you would say, oh, I buried my dog right next to the well, so that I would always remember. So they get to the well and they would give a toast to the dead dog and they would take Sipsavodka and he'd be like to my dearest doggo I miss you boo boo right and then sneakily he would grab a hammer out of his jacket and bonk them on the head now he always made sure that his bonks were a little bit softer he wanted to whack them but not hard enough so that they die he just wanted to whack them a little bit softer. He wanted to whack them, but not hard enough so that they die.

He just wanted to whack them a little bit, right? Because he liked the sound of the skull splitting, but he wanted, he wanted the victim to be aware of what was happening to them. That's insane. Yeah, and then he started experimenting. So his favorite thing was he liked to jam things into the skull cracks while the person was alive.

So like let's say your skull is fractured and your skull is cracked open a little bit but you're still alive, right? Because your heart's still beating, you're bleeding, you're still alive in that moment unless you're knocked unconscious, which most of them, according to him, were not. And he would break the bottle of vodka and start sticking. Shards of glass into the victim's skull. And for some reason, when I first read this, I kind of pictured a skull without a brain inside. Like I just pictured one of those fake skulls, right? But then imagine it's attached to a face

and it's attached to a brain. And you've got shards of glass inside of your brain now? The pain, I don't know. Right, while they're alive. And then later on, he actually decided to up the ante and his trademark. You know how everybody's got a trademark, right? His trademark was to stick an entire bottle of vodka in between the skull fracture. Like he would jam that vodka in that vodka bottle. There does his goal. So everybody he's capable of. Later on, yeah, would have a bottle of vodka

inside of their fractured skull and most of them were alive when this was happening. So he basically stick a bottle into your brain. Brain, yeah. And you're killed by brain damage. Yeah. And it's probably a very slow painful death. I don't know necessarily how painful that would be.

I feel like I feel like that's one of the... I just don't even want to think about the visual of that. Yeah. And then when he would get real cute, he'd be like into DIYs and he would go grab some twigs and leaves and stick them in the skull too, like make a fucking bouquet. Sorry, that was really graphic, but yeah, essentially he would go and look for twigs and leaves and stick them in the skull too, like make a fucking bouquet. Sorry, that was really graphic,

but like yeah, essentially he would go and look for twigs and leaves and stick them into. He was really into the sound of skull splitting. That's his quote, not mine. So he gets what satisfaction from the... Yeah, he just thinks it's so fun. Okay, so this is not like another sexual fantasy. Well, that's the weird thing.

It is but not really. Like you have to, this is why people think he's such a weird person. He's not you're necessarily like so Andre, the guy that he was competitive with the other serial killer in Russia that we've talked about as he's stabbing his victims, he would ejaculate, right? And it was because only violence could get him off, just like a lot of serial killers. But for him, the acts of killing, the acts of being so powerful that you are God, and you can decide if someone lives or dies, was his favorite feeling in the world. Sometimes he ejaculated from it, but it wasn't the stabbing in the violence. It was just like, I can do whatever I want to. And his favorite thing is to do something with the school.

Yeah. But he never like raped any of his victims. He never really did anything sexual to them technically. So it seemed like there was no sexual motive in that victim. It was all in the act of killing. But not even in the violence. It was just the sheer power of I can kill you. That's why it's so intense.

That's so weird. That's why he says something like killing in life. You know, it's like, without food, you get the quote, right? And so he then would push his victims down the well, which was actually 30 feet. And most of them would still be alive at this point. And when they fall, that's typically when they would die. And they would just be taken into the sewer system,

and they believe until this day that there's at least 13 corpses stuck in Moscow sewage system. So that nobody can be found? Yeah, so, okay, that's what I thought too. I googled it. I was like, why can't they just go in there and try to recover the bodies or like the bones? You know, I get it, it's nasty, it's a smelly work, right? But why not? I looked into it and sewers are really intense so like it's not exactly what you imagine It's not even like what you see on TV where like the little villains or like the superheroes are just like walking and it's like

You know ankle deep and sewage water and they're like what's that smell right? There's actually lots of weird things in sewers. So in China, they found a baby in the sewer system She was flushed I think. And then they also one of the farmers in China, his cow went missing. And he was like, where's my freaking cow? Like my cow's been gone for four days. I don't know where my cow is. And then all of the locals in that village was like, why do I hear mowing from underground? And it was just like, mwah mwah mwah. And so they're like, what do we do? What do we do? Something's mowing. And one of them decided to take off the lids of one of like the sewers and the cow just like popped a tad up and

They got the cow out. It took the whole village to take the cow out of the sewer system They don't know how the cow got in there But the cow didn't look injured or anything the cow was just chilling and moving in the sewer system for four days So that still doesn't answer like. Oh, just wait. And then in Japan, they found like $50,000 worth of gold. So like, I don't know about you, but I'm trying to go sewer diving in Japan.

And in the UK, they found what they call a fatberg. And now this fatberg was, it was like a, so it's like an iceberg, but they call it a fatberg. And it's called a fatberg because it was a massive clump of wet wipes, condoms, cooking oil, fat oils, and sanitary towels that were thrown into the flushed. And it collected. And it's solidified in the UK sewer system,

but guess how big it got? How big? The size of a double-decker bus. Like a real bus. Oh, in their sewer system. Yeah, and so they had to get all the sewage workers and they had to like destroy it, but they kept a big portion of it

and it's at a museum called the Fatberg. Yeah, and you can go look at the big lump of fat. Yeah, the UK finds a lot of weird stuff in their sewer system. They found half of a car once. They found a life sheep in there. Bah, yeah. It's weird.

Yeah, and in the US, we also have some weird stuff in our suicide system. In Texas, they found a 600 pound alligator just like hanging out in the suicide system. Yeah. So yeah, the suicide system's massive. So they weren't going to go looking for the bodies, especially when they would have been fully decomposed and it would have been a lot of bones. So that's what I'm saying. It's just a massive situation. It's not like a couple of pipes here and there that's underground. It's like a whole network. You know in Las Vegas they live in sewer systems? Sorry, lots of fun facts today. Yeah in Las Vegas there's tunnels that used to be an old sewer system and a lot of people live there.

Today? Yeah, today there's a whole section of people who live there and find shelter in the tunnels. And it's really sad, yeah. But I mean, sewer systems are massive. So anyways, he throws them into the sewer system. Now most of his victims were mainly men. Now Andre, the butcher of Roestoff, he was a sexually dysfunctional sexual predator. Like, he was intense.

But for Sasha, he said murder is his first love. He likes an untainted death. He doesn't like a death where there's torture, where there's too much sex, you know, there's rape, there's assault, he doesn't really like that. He just likes pure death, like pure killing. And so he starts experimenting. I mean, at one time he tried to shoot someone, but he said that was too quick and he didn't really experience the euphoria of killing someone. He tried strangling people, but he just didn't like that. He really just liked the sound of the skull cracking. Yes, sometimes he would ejaculate while he was killing.

And he just said that life for him because he was a serial killer was a perpetual orgasm just knowing that he could kill people gave him a perpetual orgasm. Yeah but it seems like he did have some moral conflections. So early 2002 Sasha actually decided to turn himself in so he walks into a police station in Moscow and he was near the park and he says listen guys Hello police officers. So I've been killing people on the regular On the regs. Yeah, yeah lots of people I kill them and it's getting really bad I don't know like do you think I should go to like rehab like what do you think?

You know, what's the consensus and they asked him oh, so why are you killing these people right and he said well because that's what I do He said that's what I do. He said, that's what I do. I kill people. And they laughed in his face. And they told him to stop drinking and go home. And so he went home. I mean, shit.

That's crazy. Yeah. And then, and then there was a woman by the name of Maria Vireceva. Now, this was February of 2002, right? She's heavily pregnant. So she's walking through the woods with Sasha and all of a sudden he just knocks her down the will. Heathily pregnant, 30 feet down the well and this is why you don't fuck with pregnant people. She survived and she climbed out of that well 30 feet. She said not today my baby living and she immediately went to

the police station and she said listen I'm a heavily pregnant woman in this dude that I met in the park we walked to the well and he threw me down the well like look at all my I mean she was injured look at all my injuries he threw me down the well he was all the evidence that you need let's go find the dude and I said give me your papers so apparently in Russia you can't live in Moscow unless you have the papers to live in Moscow but a lot of people illegally live near Moscow because jobs were really hard to find outside of the city Mm-hmm. I don't know if it's still like this, but during the USSR times it was right and so she didn't have those papers So she's like fuck what do I do and the police give her a deal they said hey you go home You never come back. You never tell me about no dude dumping you in a well,

stop complaining, don't go tell your friends, let some dude drop you in a well, and will ignore the fact that you're undocumented, and that you're living here, and we'll let you continue to live here, because don't make our job hard. Like, we gotta go do a whole search then, you know. We gotta go prox and posters.

We gotta go talk to some people, see if there's some witnesses. We gotta go gather evidence at the well, and you know, we're gonna go go prox and posters. We gotta go talk to some people, see if there's some witnesses. We gotta go gather evidence at the well and you know the well-smelling because it's like connected to the sewer system. So you go home and we won't kick you out of Moscow. So obviously being heavily pregnant, she's like, I need to feed for my baby. You know, I'm alive, thank God, but I need to feed my child and this is the only place that I can work. So she went home. And we're going to get like a bunch of, uh, dozen other people who die after this.

Because the police were like, go home. And then a couple weeks later, there was a little boy by the name of Mikail and he was 13 years old. Now, he is not, he's not exactly what you picture to be a little boy because at 13, he was constantly hanging out the metro and he was known as one of those metro boys. Now in Russia, with that meant, he would wear a leather jacket. He had piercings everywhere and he would drink vodka out of a paper cup with all of his metro friends. I feel like the Korean equivalent would be like kimchi squatting and smoking cigarettes outside of 7-Eleven, right? Got it. So he was the Moscow version of

that. And they called him translated into a punk. That's what the police called him, just a punk, right? And so he gets approached by Sasha, and he's like, why don't we go out into the woods and drink some vodka? So he's like, that's all good. So they go to the well and Sasha's like, yeah, my dead dog's here, you know, like let's give a toast to my dead dog. Like constantly using his dog as a scapegoat.

And so they get a little sip of vodka and then he just like knocks him unconscious. But for the right of a reason, he did not want to stick like stuff into his skull. So he just like pushed him down and I'll get into why I think he did this to this one, right? So he pushes him down the well and his leather jacket, the one that everyone says, hey stop wearing because you look like a punk,

got caught on one of the little nails in the well. So he didn't fall to his death. He was just like suspended in the middle of the well. And he was able to get to the ladder and climb out of the well. And he immediately goes to the police and they said, yeah, go home, you fucking punk. What's up with the police?

They're just pretty lazy. So the USSR is known for having really corrupt police. That they just didn't care. Especially when you were dealing with precincts where there just wasn't a lot of wealthy people. They really didn't give a fork. They just wanted easy jobs. They just want to sit in the police station and be like, okay, I got paid today. Yeah.

And so a week later, they actually meet again at the Metro. So, Mikhail is there and Alex is there and so Mikhail starts screaming and I can't even imagine the trauma in this little boy. He starts pulling out his own hair and just going frantic. There was a police officer who was at the Metro and he says, that's the guy,

that's the guy that pushed me down the well and tried to kill me. That's the guy that tried to kill me. And the officer said, yeah, go home punk. And they did nothing. They didn't even question him. Nothing. Now you're probably wondering, well, why, why me?

Kell, why didn't he get bumped on the head with a hammer? Why didn't he get vodka shards shoved into his skull? Right? Well, it's because Sasha was known to be really normal. So he would do things like he said sometimes during his kills. He would try to speed up the process so he could get the thrill of the kill, but he really needed to go home because he loved watching TV. And his favorite shows would be on at that time and he didn't want to miss it.

So he'd have to hurry home so that he could watch TV with his mom. Huh. So a lot of the times, you know, when there's a rushed killing like this one where he didn't, you know, successfully kill Macal, thank God. It seems like it has to do with like his home life. So it seems like the reason that he's not caught so early on is because the police didn't give a shit. Yeah.

And most of the bodies weren't even turning up. Like it's one thing of all the bodies are just laying in the woods lined up and it's obvious murder, then the community is obviously going to throw a fit into the police to do something. But the police can easily be like, no your husband just ran away because you're annoying. You know, so it's kind of like that. Now Sasha in his normal life, he was known to be a violent hostile and aggressive, but during his killings he actually toned it down because he was, you you know letting out that anger during his murders And so he was known to be just a bland dude at this point like he had no strong opinions or preferences

Like about anything he wasn't like at the time He didn't really have a strong opinion on like religion or Politics or beauty or art or anything that would evoke a strong opinion by a lot of people like he just was a bland as dude And so that was his first period called the sewer period I think that would evoke a strong opinion by a lot of people. Like he just was a bland ass dude. And so that was his first period called the sewer period. Yeah, the dudes got two eras. And then there's what's called the open period where he started leaving humans out in the open.

His dead bodies in the open because he wanted more emotion. That was his quote. He needed more emotions. Like more people to find out and have emotion. And so when people find out they get emotions, he gets emotions. He wants people to know that there's a serial killer because I mean he's killed what? 30-something people and nobody's talking about a serial killer in Moscow right now. Like, are you forking kidding me? I've been doing so much work, dude.

Like, he wants recognition. He wants people to be scared. He wants to see the fear in people's eyes. Like he wants recognition. He wants people to be scared. He wants to see the fear in people's eyes. Like what's going on? And so this is when his trademark gets really intense. Like I honestly think that maybe it was more for the recognition that he shoved vodka bottles into the gaping loons of skulls. That's a weird way to say it. But this is like when that trademark really solidifies. Because every victim out there pretty much just had a vodka bottle shoved into their brain. Yeah.

So let's talk about November 2005. There was a guy by the name of Nikolai. Ah, shit. Zac Carchenko. Okay. So Nikolai. And he was a 63 year old ex-cop. And he turned up dead in the woods with a vodka bottle shoved into his brain

So he was obviously murdered like there's no way that the police can like spit it to the press and be like Maybe it was suicide. We don't know, you know It was obvious that it was murder and this was his 41st victim And this is the moment that everyone started freaking out. This is when this is when the police said wait Do you think this has anything to do with all those missing persons reports? We've been getting for the past like decade And they're like wow Should we tell the community to be a little bit nervous because I think there might be a serial killer on the loose Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. I mean you got a lot of serial killers where they killed

two people and everyone's like, there's a serial killer on the loose, right? But um, 41st victim, 41st. And now he was getting ballsy and the police knew it. So they actually brought in some of like the better police of the USSR, not just like this local police precinct, because they were just leaving the bodies in the forest. They were just being found by regular people. Now Sasha really was excited about this because he wanted that recognition and his respect. And he said one of the hardest things that he's ever done in life. In life, think about it. He's killed people.

His sister is sitting there watching the news with him. And it's all about the serial killer. And she says, God, what a madman. Who is this person? And he said the hardest thing was that he was bursting to teller, that it was him, that she was sitting next to him. But he couldn't. That was the hardest thing he's ever done. Not deal with the guilt and the remorse, but the fact that he couldn't tell his sister that he was the serial killer. That's great. He just wanna share the joy. Share the joy, oh God. Yeah, and so the bodies were just being left

just out in the open in the woods, in the snow, in the mud, everywhere. There was one doctor who was walking his dog and he saw a wild dog with a bone in its mouth. And that doctor was like, I'm a doctor and that's definitely a human bone. So him and his dogs start searching around and they just see a pack of wild dogs

like ripping a victim apart. They call the police, the police get there. And by this point, I mean, the police were just everywhere. There was uniformed police brought in from all parts of Moscow, they had plain clothes undercover police officers. The park was like a dead zone. Nobody went, nobody played chess there anymore. It just was like, you don't go there,

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for 10% off and free shipping in the US anytime. This will be his 60 second victim allegedly, okay? We'll be Marina, Moscalavia. Now, so during all of this time, he actually had a job, and nothing really important happened at his job, like he was working at like a local supermarket, and it seemed like everyone at his job didn't really mind him. He was nice, nobody thought he was that hostile

or that aggressive. He actually was pretty easy to get along with, like he was kind of like, so one of his co-workers, Marina at a supermarket, she decided to go on a walk into the park with Sasha. Now during this time no woman would just take up a random person to go a walk with when there's a serial killer on the news, but this is her co-worker, she sees him every day. And so she goes home, she had this arranged date to go through the woods with him, and I think it was again to say goodbye to his dead dog,

which he was so sad about. And so of course, being the amazing co-worker, she was like, yeah, it's all like go. And we'll pour out one for your dog. And so she leaves a note for her son. And she says, in that note, I'm gonna go meet Sasha Pichlu Skin at the park. So she leaves that note at home,

and she starts walking to the park with him. Now, they get to the train station, they get off at the little train stop, that's the park, and they get out, and they start walking through the park. Now at this point, I mean, he knew that she left a note. I think she had mentioned that she tried to call her son, but he wasn't picking up her phone. So she got a little bit nervous, but she left him a note, so she's got to be home soon to make sure that he's okay, right? Especially with like a serial killer on the loose, you know, she's got to make sure her son's okay. And

so he knew for a fact that she left a note and everyone knew that they were going to be together that day, but first some reason he tells us that he really needed to kill. Like during that entire walk, he was like, do I just get caught just so I can do this one last time or what? Because I really need to kill. I really need to kill I really need to kill someone and because that urge came she had to die. So he murdered her. Now after this the son gets home and he immediately calls Sasha and he's like hey I gotta know that she was gonna be with you today like walking through the woods she still hasn't come home like are you still with her. And Sasha says? I haven't seen her in two months. Now her son immediately thought that was weird

because he knew that Sasha was her coworker and they see each other practically every day because they work together. What do you mean you have a seen her in two months? That doesn't make any sense. Why would my mom leave this note saying that she's gonna go meet you, but you haven't seen her in two months

and I know you're her, like, she was confused, right? And so he sends that to his dad, who is is you know marina's husband and he's like well I'm sure she'll turn up like it's gonna be okay I mean obviously they were a little bit panicked because there's a serial killer on the loose and then they sit down they turn on the TV together and they see on the news that a local woman has been found dead in the park and they're like what the forks happening so they start freaking out they go to the police

department and they were able to identify that it was Marina. Now at this point, the family brought in that note to the police and said, I don't know who this Sasha do this, but they work together. You need to go talk to him, right? And the police start tracing her, you know, whereabouts. So she had a train ticket, a metro ticket, to this stop at the park.

So they go through the metro CCTV and they see her getting off the train stop with Sasha, so he's like, okay, well this is enough evidence, right? So they started accumulating a little bit more evidence and then finally in July 16th 2006 which by the way like does this not sound crazy that it was like this recent? Yeah, it's so crazy. Yeah, I feel like we always think that the serial killers are just like in the 70s when people were hitchhiking. And then I'm like, yeah, anyways, in 2006, I mean, it's just the weirdest.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, what? With all the technology of like CCTVs and everything going on, we're just still in this age. I mean, imagine like 10 years from now, how many serial killers we'll be talking about. And we're like, yeah, so they got arrested in 2021. Like what? I don't, I think it's gonna be really, really difficult.

You think so? Yeah, like, especially with Fiji. Mm. The way the whole technology and everything is getting connected. Mm-hmm. There's no more online offline. Everything is like instant.

Like there's no way to hide anymore. I mean, right? Don't you feel that way? Yeah. I don't know. But don't you think people will get smarter? I really hope not, but I was stressed on this Wikipedia rabbit hole of active serial killers in the US.

There's quite a bit. Quite a bit? Yeah, that are active right now. Yeah, actively killing right now too. And a lot of them focus on highways. They'll travel down major highways and kill down the highway. Wait, what? How does that work? So I mean, typically it's sex workers. So they'll be driving down major highways, find a rest stop with sex workers, kill them, then keep driving. So you don't actually know

where they reside, you know, who's to say? Because they're crossing state lines all the time. How do you even say that these are connected crimes? So it seems like a lot of them are centered around highways right now. So like me in 10 years, the highway killer. Yeah, it's crazy. So July 16th of 2006, that's when they decide, listen, we're gonna go rest time, okay? So around midnight, they decide to knock on that little door where their entire family is sleeping in this little one bedroom apartment. And Natasha, the mom, she thinks it's strange because they're not expecting anyone at midnight. And also, like, this is weird, right?

So she opens the door and immediately a swarm of police walk in just with, like, assault rifles, with just guns, guns of blazing, ready to go. Like, they just got swatted. And Sasha, at to go, like they just got swatted. And Sasha at the time, he was only 32 years old. Now Natasha will go on to do interviews and she said that the police were really kinder. They also said that they just wanted to talk to her son because there was a string of burglaries, burglaries that was happening around and maybe he had something to do with it. And so she asked him, she said, Sasha, did you rob someone? And he said, no mom, and they take him away.

And all of the police, you know, like half of them went to the police station with Sasha and half of them stayed with Natasha and they gave her the paper finally. Because I think the reason that they said that is they didn't want Sasha to fight and do something crazy, you know. What paper?

The paper with like the arrest warrant and it listed what he was being accused of, which was being the maniac. And she, they said that it was heartbreaking. Like she was shook, like she was quiet, she was, she didn't have a reaction, she was just sobbing the whole time. And they had to do what they had to do. So as she's sitting there sobbing, they had to search the house.

You know? So they're turning upside down the house and that's when they found very important things, the chess board. So they found the chess board and it was just a regular chess board. And on top of 62 of the 64 squares, it was filled with dates and names.

Oh my god. And there was two empty spots. So they brought that into evidence, and there was also newspaper clippings of the butcher of Rostov, of Russia, of Andrei. Wait, so he killed 62 people. Yes, that's what he claims, but he will only be proven to have killed 49 That's in I know, but um the butcher of Russia he was convicted of 53 And he was competitive. I'm not trying to be like well look, you know, it was because he wanted to outkill the butcher of Russia right Right, so he gets brought into the police station

and this is where it gets wacko. This is when you, you know, like when you look at your own country's justice system and you're like, this is wacko, right? And then sometimes you look at other ones and you're like, oh, that's weird, right? This is one of those situations where it's going to be weird because in Russia, during the USSR times, I don't know if it's still like this, they have a comment technique where they will actually have the killer go and recreate the crimes So they were literally video taping him walking through the woods and then he there's like a dummy on the ground

Where did you say oh Korea? Korea they yeah, they make you they cover your face or something is that what you're talking about? They you say they make you read yeah They're really an act it too. This one too, he re-enact it but they used dummies. So there's like a little mannequin laying there and he's like something I went over and there and just... chock, buck. And it's just the weirdest thing and they played it on national television. And the whole thing was aired.

His entire confession was aired on national TV in Russia, which makes this case even just crazier. And the police at one point they would even ask him something like, why the woods, you know, do you have something for the woods? Like do you get off on the woods? Like does the crunching of the leaves just like make you jerk off? Like what's your deal dude? Like are you like the butcher of Russia? Or are you just like fucking love jerking off?

Like what's the deal right? And he just straight up looks at the interrogator like he's a dumbass and he goes, why the woods? Have you tried killing someone in the middle of the street and brought daylight? That's why I killed in the woods. What do you mean? That's a dumb question.

Because I think they were trying to look for like, he chose to kill in the woods because the monster was born and raised in the woods and the woods provided him the secrecy and then he would use the twigs and then the crunching of the leaves, you you know and the smell of the dewy fresh and laundered air like I think they were expecting something like that but he was just like because it's woods and so it was just like what so the police at this point they had 13 physical bodies that they had recovered from him

so they knew that he was guilty of at least 13 different murders, but that's when he starts confessing to 60 different murders. Now I don't know if he knew that the police didn't have the him accountable for like 49 murders or 16 murders, but he had just started confessing and he was able to give pretty good detail on all of them. Like it wasn't like, oh and then 10 more here, and then I threw like 20 more down the sewer. Like it was pretty detailed. Every single one, it seems like he had ingrained into his memory. It seemed difficult for him to make up with it. And a lot of them matched up with those ignored missing persons reports. So it wasn't like he was like, and then I got three bitches, I forget their names, you know, and then I threw them in the sewer. It was

like real people that they could match it up with. Uh-huh. Now, the police during the couple of months that they're interrogating him, getting the full statements, I mean, they did everything. They worked him psychologically. They would , they said that they always looked him in the eyes, you know, because he really liked that. He really liked the respect. You know, they would even see things like, you know, if you weren't a killer, I would really admire you. Your work ethics good. And he just started opening up like he, his profile, the police realized is that it's very important for him to feel like the main character, the protagonist, the hero of the story. But maybe he also want to claim these names just for his own record, right?

So it's not that difficult for these cops to get these names out of him. Also, he actually gets really mad because in the press, you are talking about the USSR, right? So you are talking about state-run media. You know, and the state-run media was like, oh my god, look at these handsome officers who were able to catch the notorious serial killer and he would go on to do interviews with journalists and said hey also the police didn't catch me I pretty much wanted to be caught so don't let those idiots think that but he was really cocky he was like I knew I was gonna get caught after killed Marina, but I wanted to kill her. So I killed her.

So I turned myself in, don't get it twisted. But the police really wanted to take credit. They were like, so then we buttered him up. Yeah. So anyways, they start filming the bizarre scene of the crime situations with these dummies and the woods and the police were there. And he's just like, and then I bonked, right? And he would just, he would even talk about how sometimes he would try to like

experiment, but he didn't really like strangling, he didn't really like shooting, he just really liked bonking. That was his favorite thing, specifically with a hammer. His hammer was his favorite murder weapon. And when he was asked why he did it, he would tell people, I mean, all of Russia pretty much that he felt like God to decide if someone lives or dies. And in some situations, you know, he has a really strong connection with his victims. You know, most of the time, you wouldn't even call him his murder victims. He would call them his clients as if he's like this attorney. And he would say, you know, his clients, he felt like a father to them because he opened the door to another world for them.

Wow, Zadi, keep it in your pants, dude. Yeah. And what's really sad is I feel like a lot of situations we talk about zero killers and I shit on the moms, I shit on the parents because either a they're abusive or b their kid gets caught for being a serial killer and they're like well it's not my fault that I beat him up every day and let him get abused you know or they'll be like no my son would never he's just a little mommy's boy angel I love him to death but Natasha was so sad because she was interviewed and she said I now know that I really raised my son poorly and I don't even know what I can say I did wrong. I just try to raise him like a normal mom would.

And I think I didn't really know my son very well. So it's like a normal mom reaction. Like not like a serial killer like, oh God, does it run in the family? Like the apple doesn't fall from the tree vibe. Like she just was so heartbroken. She actually later had to cut off all communications with him even though he would send letters

because I think she just couldn't, couldn't mentally absorb that. Like she just had to act like she didn't have a son. So he's still trying to reach out. Yeah. Saying what? Just like what's poppin mama? I mean, I don't know.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so there was a bunch of psychiatrists who wanted to just study this, dude, because none of it made sense. What happened? It seems like his mom and his half sister are normal.

There's no history of abuse. There's no killing of animals. There's no torturing of animals. Like, what's the deal, dude? Yeah. When you talk about Andre, the butcher of Russia, which we had just, I mean, everyone's just comparing the shit out of them in Russia at that time.

They study him, they find out that he is sane, like he's not insane, and he has anti-social personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder. And they don't know if it came from that bonk, but they just said that he has this insane need to be admired, to be recognized, to be respected, to be feared, to the point where he just doesn't care about anyone, he just wants to kill people to be respected. And to him, that was the easiest way to do it. What they were saying is that maybe if he was smarter or maybe he worked harder, he could have been trying to focus that energy into chess or something to be like revered and you know respected in that community But for him there was just something about the butcher of Russia just really motivated him and he felt like no

This is this is the arena that I want to play He's willing to die for it too at the end And then it seemed like he just maybe liked the kill afterwards The question was What happens after the 64 pieces have names? Yes. And the answer that anybody who talked to him, anybody who interviewed, interrogated, or dealt with Sasha,

they said he would buy many more chessboards then, because he wasn't going to stop at 64. Oh, that's what he said? That's what he said. That's what everyone around him said. He would kill indefinitely. It was not, let me do 64 in retire. It was, he at this point, loved the kill.

To the point where he's sitting in prison right now and he says, if you let me out, I'm gonna kill a couple people to let off some steam first. Wait, so what happened to his sentence? Okay, yeah, yeah. So that was like the psychological aspect, right? to let off some steam first. Wait, so what happened to his entrance? Okay, yeah, yeah. So that was like the psychological aspect, right? And he hears some things that he would say

as he's being interviewed or during trial. He said that humans are cheaper than sausage and his attorney who is defending him right now, he would like to cut him up like fish, kill him like a little insect and he would get so much pleasure from that. He's looking at his attorney. Yeah, that's defending him. And the attorney is like, judge?

I object. Judge? Judge, I quit. Judge, I quit. Mommy picked the album, scared. And during his trial, so you know how the butcher he was put into a cage, he was also put into a cage. So he was in this glass cage the entire trial Wait, what did they do that?

Because they didn't want him to hurt any spectators and they didn't want the families of the victims trying to attack him So they put him into a cage, which honestly I feel like the US should do that sometimes Put people in a cage. Yeah Why this shit should go down at court? I mean, okay, I think they should put like zero killers like this in a cage because I think it's kind of comical to look at the pictures because they are like this monster and they I feel like they don't deserve to be treated like humans and when they're sitting there with their little suits on, I'm like, fuck you, right?

But sometimes I don't because I heard- I do find like these zero killer cases, like the, you know, it's traumatizing for the, what is it? The families. Yeah, the families, or even the victim to go up there. I find it very, very traumatizing for them. Yeah, I also heard that, well, this is commonly well known

and it's all over Reddit too. You know how there's the police officers like the bay lifts in the court system? I heard that a lot of the times when they're dealing with a really bad criminal and a family member jumps and tries to attack that criminal. There's like a moment of freeze where they're like, fuck, like do we just let them swing once?

Like what do we do? Cause like it's our job not to let that happen but like fuck this dude's evil, you know, like I wanna let them swing once? Or like, what do we do? Because like, it's our job not to let that happen, but like, fuck this dude's evil, you know, like, I wanna give a swing, right? So I heard that there's always like this moment of pause between them, we're like, ugh, what do I do? But they have to stop them.

And a lot of the times, like the bailiffs, you know, you can hear them in a lot of the courts. Like the famous ones where the victims, families, will try to attack the criminal. And a lot of them are just like apologizing to the family member as they're pulling them off because you know you get it. Now, the only nightmare he said that he would ever have in prison or anywhere else is that he really could have treated his dog better.

But he says that he does have these amazing dreams though where he will meet his victims again and he will kill them all over again in the same way that he didn't realize and those he really likes. And he's killing, he's just anyone. Anyone, that's the crazy thing he did not have a type at all, he had no preference. It's crazy. Now let me tell you about a preference of mine that I have, right? And I've talked about this before on my YouTube channels. I am not ready to be a mom. So this is what's crazy.

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And I'm so, um, just out of curiosity, a lot of interviewers, journalists asked him, you know, what do you, what do you think your life would have been if you didn't kill people? Like, where would you want to live? You would still stay in Moscow? Like, let's say, you never got caught. Like, what would you want to do with your life? And he said, I would like to live in Mexico, which like Russia is really far from Mexico. Like, the other side of the world, right? And they said, I would like to live in Mexico, which Russia is really far from Mexico, like the other side of the world, right? And they said, why Mexico, that's very random, right? And he said, well, it's warm, and there's lots of forest there.

And the interviewer said, well, there's actually no forest in Mexico, which I feel like he's wrong, because I feel like I've seen the forest, right? Sasha goes, do you mean to tell me they don't have jungles? Because they do have forest. And you know, Freddie Kuger, the killer in the movies, well, he said, Elm Street exists in every city. Now, Freddie Kuger killed people on Elm Street, nightmare on Elm Street.

Uh-huh. And he said Elm Street exists in every city. So he'd like to go to Mexico to go kill people in their forest. Yeah, thank God Mexico that he's in prison. Why? Mexico, though, because it's warm and they've got forest. Just because it's warm. Yeah, just warm. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, which is going to be the exact opposite of where he goes, because he goes to a prison called the polar owl. We'll get into it.

So October 24th of 2007, he ends up confessing to 60 murders plus three surviving victims, but he actually was only convicted of 49 murders and three survivors, right? Because that was the only enough evidence to tie him to, and he was really upset with this. First of all, he wanted a jury trial. He wanted a trial that lasted forever.

He wanted witnesses, calls at the stand. He wanted a testify. He wanted a clan of jurors sitting there, staring him in the eye where he could just harass them and look creepy, right? Mm-hmm. But he didn't get that. And so he was really mad at that.

But more importantly, he was really mad at the fact that they said he only killed 49 people. When he killed 62 people. Why is that? He was just so mad because this would make him the second most prolific killer. Oh, because they could only find evidence to 49 like conclusive evidence. So they didn't want to give him the rest. And I also think that the police didn't want to give him the satisfaction.

So I think, you know, they were like, I mean, technically he probably did kill those people, but we're not going to give him that because that's what he wanted in life. Like that's all he wanted. That was his biggest happiness. And so he was sentenced to life in prison because Russia did not have the death penalty at this time. Actually, it was a huge debate in Russia. They were like, should we bring it back just for him? Just like a one time thing where we're just like, Hey, we're doing it again. You know, back at it again with that death penalty.

Um, but they didn't. Yeah. What? So they sentenced him to life in prison and the first 15 years would be in solitary confinement at a place called the polar owl. Now it's speculated that he's going to spend the most, I mean the rest of his life in the polar owl, but the polar owl is one of the top five most intense prisons in Russia. Now I don't want to get political, but when I say intense prisons in Russia, I feel like they're probably more intense than the ones in the US.

No offense, right? You're talking craziness. I actually saw a documentary called The Harsha's Prisons, If it's on Netflix, Something Prisons, right? I was watching it and I was like, this is fucking nuts. And it was in Russia. So the way that it works, Polar Owl, is that, so So you know how in American prison you've got like that. It's kind of a cage feel but not full heartedly So you've got the bars on one side and then the rest of the or just concrete walls And people are like oh my god the concrete walls drive you crazy

But the polar owl in Russia. It's a cell. It's a cage inside of a cell So they actually don't want you to even have walls to make it feel somewhat like a home It's a cage inside of a cell. So they actually don't want you to even have walls to make it feel somewhat like a home. So you're in a cage, and then there's walls outside of the cage. So mentally, you know every single day that you're in a cage. And that's all for mental reasons?

For mental reasons. That's fucking crazy. They don't want you to have a regular ceiling. They want you to's fucking crazy. They don't want you to have a regular ceiling. They want you to have a cage. They don't want you to see the walls. Because I mean, technically, if you close your eyes really hard and you don't look at that little one bars on one side of the wall, maybe you could make it a home.

But they're like, we don't want that. We want you to feel like you're a caged beast. What? And then after each cage, there's like three other sets of bars. From the main hallway, it's solitary confinement, one person per cage, and then outside of the doors it has a picture of the prisoner and their name and all of the most horrendous things that they've done. So that the guards when they see it they feel no sympathy, there is nothing there, there

is no love, there is no, hey, you seem like a cool person, like you're smart. You can manipulate me into liking you. Like what's popping? It's there to remind the guards, these are fucking killers. And what's even crazier is they only get like 90 minutes a day to go outside of their cage.

Oh, well, by the way, it's kind of important to note that this cage, you're not allowed to lay on your bed from 10, from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. So you can only sit on the floor or they have a concrete stool that is attached to the floor and you can only sit on that. But you also don't get like a TV. You also don't get things to do. So you're just sitting there in your kitchen. Watch it. They can lay on the bed. They don't want you to relax. So you're just sitting on cold concrete all day. But you have nothing to do. So you're just sitting there in your kitchen. They can't lay on the bed. They don't want you to relax. So you're just sitting on cold concrete all day. But you have nothing to do.

Who stops them, fun laying on them? There's a CCTV in every single room. Oh my god. And if they see you go even sit on your bed, they'll bring in guards. And I'm sure some crazy shit happens to you when they bring in the guards. So you can only sit on bed or in the stool? On the stool or the ground, yeah. And then 10 p.m. comes around.

It's nighttime. But the lights stay on. You are not a lot of put your hands under the blanket and they monitor you. And if you do, I'm sure you get beat the fuck up. Because it's right. Yeah, you're not a lot of put your hands under the blanket. You're also not a lot to cover your head with the blanket.

So you have to just lay there with your eyes closed with these blaring lights on. Yeah. And fall asleep. And just try to fall asleep. Yeah. Uh-huh. It's kind of crazy, right? And then it gets even crazier. So you actually get transported from your cell to another cell, but it's just like the top has maybe like some airflow. So you get a little bit of fresh air. That's a 90 minutes, you say? Yeah, and you're by yourself again. fresh air. That's a 90 minutes, you say? Yeah, and you're by yourself again.

Okay. So it's still solitary. And when they take you to that, it requires three guards. You're blindfolded, your handcuffed, they've got a guard dog, and they make you, you know how you do the drunk elephant thingy where you look at the floor and they turn you, they do that, and then they walk you through so you can't memorize the layout of the prison. Every day. Because when you're standing upright, you can kind of be like, I take a right turn, I take a left turn, but they kind of like spin you around and you're facing the ground,

so you're at a 90 degree bowing level. So you have no idea where the fuck in the prison you're located, where the little outside spaces you don't know anything. They really don't want the prison break, huh? No, because all of the people that are in these crazy prisons, such as the polar owl, they're all in their full life, so they think that they have nothing to lose by doing some crazy stuff. And the way that the Russians kind of state these people, they said that they're killers, pedophiles, and man-eaters. So I'm thinking cannibals.

I see. Yeah, it's really intense. So he was sent to the polar owl and he keeps telling the court his only appeal is to add 11 more people to his list. And when he was asked by these journalists, like, why is this so important to you? Like, do you really care that much about notoriety? Like, do you really care about being the most prolific serial killer in Russia? Like, that's your main thing, that's your only thing? And he just states, I thought it would not be fair for them to forget about the other 11 people.

They're just forgotten. Yeah, now what's crazy is that you're like, wow, thank god he's locked up. Let's forget about him, right? Right? Well, did you know that while he was in solitary confinement that at least 80 different women wrote to him seeking romantic relationships? And one of them was the Siberian woman by the name of Natalia. Now Natalia had won his heart and he proposed after like a year or two of them, you know, discussing over letters they never met each other in person because only his family remember, only his mom is allowed to visit like twice a year. So that's what's keeping him sane in the freaking prison?

But not anymore. And so he proposed, she accepted it, she even got his face and a chessboard tattooed onto herself. I know, that's so disrespectful. It's like one thing to get a serial killer's face tattooed on your, well, I think that's disrespectful and really tasteless and tacky. But it's another thing to get the chest support, the thing that he's like so proud of tattooed on your body. And yeah, and by this point the authorities banned their communication because they were just like this is getting too steamy, getting too much like this is too strong of emotions. We don't want him like they don't want their prisoners to have these strong emotions because then it motivates them to do some crazy shit. So they're like no, you guys can't talk anymore, so they barred them from communicating, but

in Natalia was like no, I'm still his, I'm always his, this is a quote of hers. I will always belong to Sasha, I am dead without him. Yeah, now you're probably thinking, wow, what's so special about Sasha, right? I mean, we just talked about his life and it's, it sounds so special. He sounds like disgusting. We hate him, right? But Natalia's got some issues too. I mean, I could do a whole deep dive on people who fall in love with criminals, but Natalia would kind of be the poster child for it. She's always loved killers. She, um, her her life her adult life She has been pen-pulling serial killers and talking to regular killers Yeah, which I might add you know, I got a letter from prison warts and

It is a very interesting feeling like I can I don't relate I don't understand the love aspect But I do understand the temptation to write back and kind of want to dissect someone's brain for yourself. I understand that aspect, but she liked it in a sexual way. She would talk to a lot of people who's only killed one person before, and she said it just wasn't enough.

She liked serial killers because she needed something hotter. That was her words, hotterOTTER. HOTTER. Yeah. And so she claims that she is devoted to Sasha. Now, Sasha was also asked recently. You know, what's your life's like? What would you do if you were out of prison? Like, do you regret anything?

He said he doesn't regret anything. But he said, you know, to entertain you for a little bit. If you let me out, first, I'm gonna go kill a couple people, just to get rid of some stress right now. Then since it's been a while, I think I'll go rape a woman. And then I'll probably drink some vodka and then see how it goes from there. This guy is so scary. And they were like, what?

And he said, by the way, all of your religions are a lie, because evil rules the world. And I am just really realistic. I want to cry. This guy is insane. Imagine sitting in the same room as him? I would cry. I would burst into tears. You could literally just breathe my way and I would burst into tears. Yeah, he's insane. I don't know. I think it really has to do with the association with Chess too. It makes him scarier because Chess is one of those games. I feel like especially this day and age, most people my age, we don't really play chess like that. So for me, even when I think that's the appeal with Queen's Gambit, it's just so like

strategic. You feel like these people know something that you don't know. Like they get this enjoyment from sitting there and like just thinking about how to crush the upon, like I'm scared. That's the story of the chessboard killer. I know that there was a brief history lesson of chess, but I felt like it was pertinent to the story. So I fucking swing, you know? That swing!

Stay away from swings. Seriously, don't let your kids around swings. You still want to swing? No. You don't want to swing anymore. I mean mean I think I'm old enough that if I get bonked I don't think I have a personality change. You think I'm just going to get bonked with this swing and then suddenly I'm going to be like today we're talking about Stephanie Sue's, Sarah Keller. Well this clip might haunt me later. I'm kidding. Yeah but um stay away from

swings that's how we're ending today's episode. I hope you guys enjoyed. I know today's was just a lot of fun facts everywhere, but I just felt the need to get all of this information out of my brain. And I will see you guys next week. Bye. Bye.