Rotten Mango - #245: YouTuber Faked A LiveStream To Allegedly Create An Alibi For Murder  (Ongoing Case of Stephen McCullagh)

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

Can you be at two places at once? Not in the metaverse, or in VR, but physically? Recently, a case has gone viral because it seemed a YouTuber was able to be at two very different places at the same time. December 18, 2022, Stephen was home live-streaming for his YouTube audience. His stream was titled “The Violent Night - Christmas Stream.” He was engaged in intense gameplay of Grand Theft Auto. But at the same time, it was alleged that he was somewhere else completely. Miles away. Allegedly was caught on CCTV on his way to murder his pregnant girlfriend. But how could that be if he was sitting in front of his camera live-streaming? Is this a case of mistaken identity? A dopple ganger? Or something else entirely? Non-Profit organizations (please do your own research before committing to a donation)! https://www.thorn.org https://www.thehotline.org/identify-abuse/ https://rainn.org/?_ga=2.257109385.348324636.1679154857-245043802.1679154857 https://urgentactionfund.org https://victimsofcrime.org https://www.trynova.org https://www.rainbowplace.org/s/ Full Source Notes: rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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in all states or situations. Price is very based on how you buy. Better being better. Can you be two places at once? Okay, not in the metaverse, like not VR. I'm talking physically. Can you be two places at once? Can you be in one place miles away and then at a second place at the same time?

I wish. Yeah, I mean recently this case has gotten viral because it seems like this YouTuber was two places at once. So December 18th of 2022. So just this last December, Steven was home and we don't have his ring camera footage to prove that he was home, but we do have a live stream, which is like the next best thing. He's live streaming on his desk. He's playing Grand Theft Auto. The stream was titled Violet Night Christmas Stream. He's just like in this intense gameplay.

He's getting into it. He's screaming at the camera. He's getting riled up. He's completing his little quests. He's live streaming at home, but the very same night, it's alleged that he was somewhere else entirely, like just miles away. He was allegedly caught on CCTV on his way to murder his pregnant girlfriend. But how could that be? I mean, he was clearly at home sitting at his desk,

playing Grand Theft Auto live streaming in real time to his YouTube audience. Is this the case of mistake and identity? Is this a doppelganger or is this something else entirely? As always, full show notes are available at rotinmingopodcast.com. I did miss you guys from a main episode this week. I had to have emergency tooth extraction. I had four teeth extracted. I wasn't expecting it.

I didn't plan ahead for it. And this is like day three post-stop. So as of when I'm filming this, the six-hour live stream of this YouTuber is still up on YouTube. It hasn't been taken down since December 18th of 2022. I can't say that I recommend anybody watch it. I know that there's gonna be people who are curious that want to see it for themselves.

I'm gonna show you the big bits and pieces that a lot of people are talking about. But other than that, I would say it's just six hours of pure discomfort. It's an uncomfortable watch. I think we all have way more important things to do, like supporting the McNally family and getting justice. It's just not something I would recommend,

but it is there. So with that being said, there was this huge rally for violence against women in Ireland. I think there were like over a thousand people gathered there. Most of these people, they're angry, they're upset, they're sad, they're in grief. I mean, they're holding up signs and violence against women, justice for Natalie, or one that was even more emotional was she was just at home. She was only at home. Natalie McNally was at home

when she was viciously attacked and murdered. It said that she was stabbed. There were just a lot of, a lot of emotions in the faces of the crowd, but this one kind of stood out, this guy. And maybe it's hindsight, maybe not. But there's a man standing amongst the crowd in the rallies. Steven, he's a YouTuber.

Look, he might not look or sound familiar. YouTube is a huge environment, but Steven was bit of a micro influencer. He had a little over 35,000 subscribers, which is a lot. Don't get me wrong, but he had a super niche audience. Okay, the guy, he didn't do lifestyle content, he didn't do like what I eat in a day, videos I would cater to a larger audience, he focused on a very specific community of collectible figurines. So he would collect these niche figurines from Star Wars or Dr. Who, and he would unpackage them, review them, and the process of buying them.

He had this entire room in his house, I was just dedicated to these figurines, where there was just rows and rows of them. And he took this for over a decade. Now, it's unclear if you- Collecting? Yeah, and no YouTube. Oh, so he's been doing it since 2010.

So he didn't have the biggest following, but he had like a cult like following. I mean, some people who were his viewers, they watched him since they were a kid, till when they're young adult. It's intense. He describes himself in his YouTube channel as, the adventures of an overgrown man child and his special friends. He sounds like a good guy.

I mean, he's on his off-time. He's at a rally to support the fight against violence against women. He's standing up for women. And people say there's no nice guys left. I would argue, maybe it seems like he's one of the nice guys. Like what is there not to stand, especially when you find out that he's connected to one of the victims. His pregnant girlfriend Natalie was murdered the night of December 18th.

She was murdered while he was live streaming. It was a pretty big deal when Natalie announced that she was pregnant. She had her whole family seated around the living room. Her brother, Neil, Natalie's brother, said the minute the words came out of Natalie's mouth that she was pregnant, everyone, the whole family, they jumped to their feet and these are jumping up and down. By the end of their night, their cheeks were hurting from smiling so much. And Neil said even when everybody left, he caught himself like skipping around the house cleaning up. He was just so happy. His little sister was pregnant.

At this point, the McNally family, they felt like the fall of 2022, just 2022 in general, was gonna be one of the best years of their lives. The baby wasn't expected until 2023, but pregnancy is part of the journey. I mean, the family, they're so excited there. They're buying all the baby supplies, like the crib. This is gonna be the first grandchild for the McNally parents. Nathalie's parents, they are telling everyone and anyone. You know the McNally parents, you know that Natalie's expecting a baby.

They would even tell the friends, I've never seen Natalie so happy and content like you in my entire life. You know, just being pregnant, she has all these plans made out for the future and she's doing really well with her boyfriend. And Natalie's brothers, her three brothers, they're treating her even more like an egg, now more than ever. So Natalie is 32 when she falls pregnant, but to her brothers, she was like their egg.

That's how they describe her. Ever since she was a kid, I know it's a strange way to put it, but think about it. She had three brothers. She was the only daughter in the family. Her three brothers, Brandon, Declan and Neil, they said because Natalie was the only daughter, she was like their precious egg. Everyone in the family was like, we gotta protect this egg. We gotta make

sure nobody hurts this egg. We gotta don't on this egg. We gotta make sure that this egg is good. And Natalie was just completely cherished and protected by all of her family members. I mean, they treated her like an absolute princess, but she never really let it get her. The way I can describe it is Natalie gives me main character energy. Like that's the energy she has. She's just so full of life. Very compassionate. There was a tribute video that was uploaded onto YouTube for her.

She just, you can see that she loves animals. She was just bright, kind-hearted. And at this stage in her life, she's working in a marketing department for a massive transportation company called TransLink, which is already impressive a marketing department for a massive transportation company called Translink, which is already impressive, but she went a step further. If she's not working, she's volunteering. So she would go around her community and she would advocate for what everyone around her needs, what her neighbors need. What do you guys need when it comes to public transportation? I'm going to go take it to Translink my boss and tell them what's up. She just wanted to serve her community. Like she was just this brilliant,

personable soul. People who worked with her said it was an honor working with her. She seemed like one of those people that had more than 24 hours in a day. You know those people aren't talking about because when she wasn't doing all of that, she was still taking care of her family. She had moved out at this point. It was just her and her pets, but she would always come home to her parents, take them to soccer games. That was like a family tradition that they had. When Natalie was a kid,

there's even this picture that landed her on the front page of the mirror magazine. And this is, she's in the middle, just beaming at the camera. She's like cheering for her family's favorite team, dressed head to toe in their colors. And we're gonna come back to this picture in a minute. But you can just tell Natalie was this really honest, kind, spirited person in life.

And then she met Steven, her boyfriend, who would soon be arrested and then released for her murder. Steven was 33 when Natalie announced that she was pregnant. So I mean, he's of age. The couple had been officially dating for a few months. It was quick. By all accounts, the pregnancy was pregnant. So I mean, he's of age. The couple had been officially dating for a few months. It was quick. By all accounts, the pregnancy was unexpected. But Stephen and Natalie, they were both ready

to step it up. They're like, okay, this is a blessing in disguise. We're ready to strike this family. We're both of age. We have stable careers. Like, this is perfect. And everyone around them is so supportive. It seemed like, okay, yeah, sure.

They don't know each other that long. They didn't date that long, but there's no red flags on either side of the couple. Like, they seem like they would both be amazing parents. This looks like the beautiful start of a fantastic family. I'm not sure if Natalie was nervous to tell Steven about her pregnancy, but there are no reports. There is no indication that either of them, either party were super stressed or upset about the pregnancy news. Sure, they were excited, they were surprised, but I mean, it didn't seem like they were stressed. Natalie, at this point, she was emotionally, mentally, financially, just ready for a kid. She's ready to make the change.

Even if the pregnancy was initially a surprise, and this is so important, her family even said, Natalie was just bursting to start this new chapter of her life. And I think with Steven's past experiences in life, I can only imagine a lot of people in Steven's life were so happy that he was starting his own family. You're like, okay, what happened? Let me tell you,

Steven had lost his parents in 2014. He lost his mom in 2014, and then in 2015, he lost his dad. He didn't have any siblings from what I could tell. His whole support system at this point was his dog, a cute little terrier named Smoky, and that was just all he leaned on during his parents' death, like for 12 years, Smoky was his life.

And more recently, a few months before Natalie's murder, 12-year-old Smoky passed away. So it was a pretty rough time for Steven. He posted an emotional tribute on his YouTube channel for Smoky, and I don't know. Like, I guess I imagined if I were this guy's friend, I would think, wow, this guy has had a lot of loss in his life, but maybe this is the best thing

that could happen to him. He's starting his family with someone that's compassionate and kind and full of life. Like, if there's anyone that's going to be a good mom, it's going to be Natalie. Like, maybe this will be good for him. That's the kind of the feeling that I think a lot of people were feeling about Stephen. And the couple, they're trying to go about it responsibly. Natalie's like, okay, I'm not trying to like rush into moving in together just because I'm pregnant. They're trying to take things slow so that whenever they do move in together, they have this strong foundation for their relationship. So December 18th,

2022, Sunday rolls around and she's a few months pregnant at this point. The night before Saturday, Natalie had spent the night at Steven's house because they're still living separately and she went back home to take care of her pets the next morning. Sunday morning she goes home and she's getting ready for the work week ahead and on top of that She's like once I finish everything all the house chores. I got to go to my parents house It's the World Cup finale literally the one that we just all watched And she's always been a huge soccer fan her family huge soccer fans Which side note it was a pretty exciting game So I'm sure Natalie was just bursting with adrenaline,

with just like everybody else that was watching. And once the game ends, she's getting ready to go back home and her phone pings with a text message from Stephen. This is like 5.57 pm. And it says, right, well, I'm off to stream the night away. Wish me luck. That's what Stephen says. Natalie smiles and she responds,

I might have a peek at your stream later. We also later find out that Steven had tweeted that he's gonna be streaming and Natalie had liked the tweet. So she was just a very supportive girlfriend. If Steven had a hobby, she embraced it. She tried to learn about it. She wanted to be interested in the things

that made him passionate. Just seeing the people around her happy was what made Natalie happy. So anytime that Steven went live, which wasn't that frequent, Natalie would make a mental note to pop in and say hi, show him some love and support him during his stream. So she's gathering up her stuff at her parent's house and she starts heading home. This would be the last time her parents saw her alive. Natalie's car was caught on CCTV camera driving back home around 7pm on December 18th.

In 24 hours, the evening of December 19th Monday, authorities would be notified that Natalie had been beaten and stabbed in her home. The 15-week-old baby boy that she was pregnant with would also die as a result. All of Natalie's loved ones, her parents, her three brothers, they were all notified of her murder. The only person close to Natalie and her unborn baby that wasn't notified was Stephen. Because he had been the one to find her. According to a court hearing that took place March 6th, the prosecution stated that Stephen went over to Natalie's house Monday night because she wasn't responding to his messages. that Stephen went over to Natalie's house Monday night because she wasn't responding to his messages.

He got there around 10 p.m. So way more than 25 hours since Natalie was last seen. And the police arrived, ambulances arrived after his 911 call. It was too late. Both Natalie and the baby, they were dead. The crime scene was immediately secured because I mean, the whole thing was just so clearly foul play. She was stabbed, she was beaten.

This is clearly murder. And this is like the worst kind of monster. What kind of monster kills a pregnant woman? What kind of monster stabs a pregnant woman to death? Nothing about it felt random. It didn't feel like a serial killer on the loose. There was no evidence of a break in it seems. And I'm not saying that that's any better,

but it's scary to think that someone knew Natalie, knew how kind she was, knew that she was pregnant, knew how excited she was to have a baby, and killed her? Like that seems so sinister and so gross. The state pathologists would later state that Natalie's initial findings of death included, compression of the neck, stab wounds to the neck, blunt force injuries of the head. She also had defensive wounds which indicate that she fought against her attacker in an effort to spare her or her unborn child's life. The murder weapon, the knife was found near Natalie's body.

Both Natalie and the knife were found at the top of the stairs in her home. Natalie's father would later say that when he went to ID Natalie's body, she was unrecognizable. He said that the sheer anger and just animosity that was represented in her body was just not something anyone would have expected. She had broken bones in her neck. The full autopsy report has not been made public, but Natalie's father has stated that it was a terrible death, and all he can hope for now is that she died quickly. The police try to calm the public. They're trying to reassure everyone,

like don't worry, and this nice little neighborhood in Ireland, don't worry, we don't have a serial killer. This is not random. They're trying to reassure people by saying, this is not random, nobody else is in danger. And very soon after that, the police released CCTV footage of a man walking into Natalie's neighborhood,

carrying a sack. This is around 8.52 pm. Then at 9.30 pm, you can see the same man walking out. And I- Wait, were 8.52 to 9.30? Yeah, 38 minutes. And I truly don't know why it's the world's worst, grainiest footage. It's kind of frustrating, but at least there's footage. A few interesting

things to note about the CCTV footage. For one, you cannot see the man's face clearly. You cannot see it clearly, and it doesn't necessarily seem like they were trying to hide their face per se, but you can't see their face. Second, the man changes clothes. It seems like it's the same person by their height, their stature, and their gait, like the way they walk, but it seems like when he's walking into the neighborhood, he's wearing maybe darker colored clothes. It looks like a set, a track set, if you will, and then when he's walking out, he's wearing a lighter colored set. And another thing to note is that the colors might not be accurate, because when it's dark, CCTV cameras may make something look like white shirt, but it might not be white, it might be blue,

it might be a different color, but it's clear that he did change clothes. Now lastly, is the police release this footage with the presumption that this man either committed the gruesome murder or had knowledge of it. And the way the man is walking in the CCTV footage is just eerie. Because the police are under the belief that this is the killer, right? But the way he's walking, it's like he's taking a nice leisurely walk to grab some ice cream. It doesn't look like he's running away from a crime scene. It doesn't look like he's going to murder someone. He looks like he's got his headphones in and just taking a nighttime walk. Like it's very

scary to think that this is how someone walks away from a murder that they just committed. So the person didn't drive or they parked the car far away? They took a bus. They took a bus. Yeah. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah.

So just again, I don't know if this is hindsight, but it just reeks of entitlement. Like this walk is a very entitled walk, and it's very scary. So from this CCTV footage, the police gathered that this person seems to be a younger male, and they asked the public if they could help ID the man in the video. And for a while, nothing was done about it. I don't know if they just couldn't identify the man in the video if nobody could, but the police were stumped. They had visited over 200 houses in the area, asking if anyone saw anything at all. Those were remotely suspicious. They evaluated over 3,000 hours of CCTV footage. They had taken over 50 items into evidence. Crime stoppers came out and offered a 20,000

pound reward for anyone with information that could lead to an arrest. And people, the police, they kept reassuring the McNally family and the public that they were doing absolutely everything to find the killer. But the McNally family, and I have just pure respect and admiration for them because this is the hardest time of their lives. And they got up every morning and they made sure the world did not forget about Natalie. They went to public of peels. They held vigils, protests. They wanted to spread awareness against not just for Natalie McNally's case, but for violence

against women. I think the community took it really hard to know that a young woman's life was taken in her own home. That was shocking. But the fact that she was pregnant, I mean, she's going through one of the most arguably one of the most vulnerable yet beautiful stages that a person can go through, pregnancy, like creating a child in her body. It just adds to the trauma that I think everyone felt. The police did start gathering a few leads. The first round of evidence came from Natalie's

neighbors. Two of her neighbors reported hearing a woman's screen from inside Natalie's house at around 9 p.m. the night before. Now, I imagine that the screen was not a startling as one would imagine. Maybe it's one of those screens where you're like, oh, I wonder if someone's having fun or if it's like someone's getting chased with a water gun. Like, you know, how sometimes your brain likes to make up these scenarios.

So with this, the police were able to determine a possible time of death for Natalie. And with the CCTV footage of the unknown man arriving and then leaving the neighborhood from about 8.52 pm to 9.30 pm, they kind of guesstimate that's when Natalie died. And I'm sure all tops of your reports could further verify that, but that's where they're going off of now. Now, another interesting thing to gather is that Natalie has just a lot for animals. She has a lot of pets. She had this big German shepherd and she had a bunch of cats.

She was known to constantly walk her German shepherd around the neighborhood, and her cats that kind of like stay out the window waiting for her to return. There's a lot of cute videos of her with her pets, but the pets are now a key piece of evidence. Natalie's neighbors stated that her dog was quite protective of Natalie. She is a single woman living alone. So yeah, German Shepherd, great choice. They're very, very protective, very family-oriented dogs. And not a single

neighbor heard her dog barking during the evening of December 18th. And the dog was home. single neighbor heard her dog barking during the evening of December 18th. And the dog was home. Yes. So indicating again that whoever killed Natalie was potentially close enough to Natalie and her dog that their presence and arrival did not put the dog on high alert. What you watch depends on what kind of major in. Sometimes you're craving comedies like friends or South Park and sometimes you're more into dramas like HBO's Succession and House of the Dragon.

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download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or paid to description starting at 12.99 per month. And I don't know because I've never had this experience or tried it out, but I do know that my dogs are more on alert when we have equitances come over versus if we have the same people come over and we always do random things where we might play, wrestle each other and the dogs are not on alert because I think they're just used to these people's

presence. So I think that was the argument here. Now this isn't the strongest piece of evidence, but it did confirm that they were on the right track. The police did not believe that this was a random attack. And then finally, the last piece of potentially bombshell information was given by Stephen, the boyfriend who discovered Natalie's crime scene. Stephen told the police that he knew why she was murdered.

Okay, and why is that? Her blank has done this. So Steven has just pointed the finger and named someone as the killer. And I don't know if it was a stalker, I don't know if it was an ex-boyfriend, but he verbally named someone. I mean, the name has been redacted for privacy reasons but it was just interesting. The police are like, okay, that's great. Thanks, we're gonna take note of that, but you, Steven, are under arrest.

So the first night, December 19th, when Steven had first discovered Natalie's body, he was arrested. I mean, can you blame the cops? I would honestly be surprised if he wasn't arrested that day. He found Natalie's body. He called the police. He was dating her. She was pregnant and he's pointing the finger at another guy. The minute the police show up at the scene Yeah, they book him. They arrest him. They book him and once they start talking to him Steven is revealing that he has an airtight alibi. Oh, he couldn't have been me because I was live streaming on YouTube

So during the time of the murder for six hours, from 6 p.m. December 18th to midnight December 18th. Now mind you, the police believe the murder happened around 9.930. He was live streaming. I mean, for the police to arrest someone like that, wouldn't you say there are some kind of like indicators? Because if you, someone find a crime scene, do they automatically arrest you? Not really, right? She was acting very, he was just a very uncooperative, is what they stated.

So for a partner who just found his pregnant partner murdered, it didn't seem like he wanted to help the police. He just kept naming another guy and he was just acting very suspicious. Yeah, so they went ahead, they booked him and he revealed his alibi, it was airtight, they went to his YouTube channel, checked it out, sure enough, there's a live stream called The Violent Night, Christmas Live Gaming Stream.

He was then released, they let Stephen go, he was cleared on all counts. Stephen would be home for Christmas because he had an airtight alibi for when the murder took place. So soon after his release another arrest was made and the suspects identity has not been released to the public It is speculated by netizens that the person may have been the man that Stephen had named the ex boyfriend or a stalker of some sort He was pointing the finger at this guy and allegedly this guy was arrested. This of course is Unconfirmed. We have no idea, but that's the online theory. And with these arrests and releases and arrests and releases, because that guy was released too,

with no information being given to the public, the McNally family, I mean, they're getting frustrated. It felt like the police were losing steam on this case. It honestly kind of felt like the police were being let around in circles and they were getting manipulated and they had no idea what they were doing. The McNally family were worried that Natalie was just going to be another forgotten name in this long list of women who had been murdered and there would be no justice.

Natalie's father stated that anytime the phone rings, he prays it's the police. He prays that there one step closer to justice. All he wants to hear is that whoever did this to his little girl is off the streets. He wants to protect others. He just wants that person to be brought to justice. That is all. Natalie's cousin stated, the person walked into Natalie's home and took away everything. For her, for her family, for her partner, he doesn't deserve to be walking the streets.

He deserves to be punished. This isn't just our family's problem. As a community, we need to make sure we're doing everything we can to keep Natalie's name out there because until he is caught, who can be sure that he's not going to do this to another innocent woman. The family refused to give up. They did not rest until media outlets and news and all these people picked up Natalie's case. They held rallies to raise awareness for violence against women and they tried to spread awareness on basically this epidemic. They wanted to show people that we've had enough, like we should all have had enough by now. Rachel

Koyle helped organize the rally. She is friends of the McNally family and she said about violence against women. This is all rooted in misogyny. There is a male sense of entitlement to women's bodies, and this is not something we're gonna tolerate any longer. The tide is turning, violence against women must end. Declan Natalie's brother said he wants Natalie to be remembered as this beautiful, fun person that she was. Natalie's mom said every inch of their walls were filled with pictures of Natalie, just smiling at them.

The whole family, they wanted answers. They wanted to know why. But also, they just kind of wanted to meet their future grandson. They named him Baby Dean, so Natalie and Baby Dean. Natalie's mom stated, we were so excited for the new year. And now that's gone. Everything is gone. They held a vigil in celebration of Natalie and baby Dean. The community came and they released these pink and blue balloons. It was just really emotional. And remember that soccer team that Natalie was sported wearing their colors? When she was a kid and she was on the front cover of the magazine, they held a moment of silence for Natalie.

It was what I imagined to be a very heartbreaking moment for the McNally family. To see that Natalie was being celebrated by the very team that she celebrated 20-something years ago. And I think it just goes to show that Natalie was well-loved, supported, and just this bright light in this world. And then finally, a final arrest was made in Natalie's case. And I feel like it's the type of news that would just shatter anyone's hope in humanity. But it didn't for the magnalities.

But nobody would blame them if it did. The father of their unborn grandson, Natalie's boyfriend, the one that grieved with the family, the one that showed up to the rallies wearing pink, the one that found Natalie, the one that was live streaming when she was murdered, was arrested, for her and Dean's murders. This is January 31st, he was arrested, just this past January, and February 2nd,

he was officially charged with their murders. But how? What happened the first time? The police checked his airtight alibi. He was live streaming, so how can he be at two places at once? We'll talk about the live stream in a second, but let's first cover the basis. Steven was released initially because he had an alibi.

He was live streaming around the time of Natalie's death. The police knew that. They thought they confirmed it, but the more evidence they uncovered, the more all roads just kept leading back to the sky. The first being that there was CCTV footage from a translink bus. Yes, the company that Natalie used to work for. And the bus CCTV is in Lisburn, where Steven lives. The night of the 18th, a male figure is caught on camera entering the bus, and he's pulled his hood all the way down. He has a scarf around his face. It's just very suspicious. Clearly,

he's trying to hide his face. But as he's trying to pay for his bus fare, he drops a few coins. He has to lean down to pick it up, and the CCTV shows that he's wearing black gloves. I get it. It's cold, right? Really thick black gloves, And these gloves are so thick that he couldn't even pinch the coins off the bus floor. It's odd, right? But that's not even the odd part. He takes off his black gloves and underneath, he's wearing like surgical rubber gloves. That's really odd.

Nobody just walks around like that. It's not even for temperature control, right? Like it's weird. And at the crime scene, at Natalie's place, the police found bloody glove prints that are similar to the rubber gloves that this bus rider was wearing. On top of that, the sack that this guy on the bus is carrying

is the same greenish colored one as the one being carried by the man on CCTV. What is this? Is a weapon in there? Probably a knife and clean up supplies. So what does this all mean? The police are able to connect this man on the bus in Lisburn near Steven's house and the bus is going towards Natalie's place to the man entering an exiting Natalie's

neighborhood the night of the murder. It's the same man. The time of the man on the bus and the time of the man walking into the neighborhood were consistent, meaning this person had enough time to get off the bus, get to the neighborhood, walk in. So after he leaves Natalie's neighborhood, did he take the bus back home? No, just a little bit after 9.30pm, a CCTV clip was uncovered by a cab driver near Natalie's house and the cab driver picked up a man. The taxi was actually reserved for someone else, but as the driver was waiting for that person, this unknown man seized his opportunity and was like, begging, you need to take me home,

please just cancel your other ride. My mom is sick. Mind you, if this is Stephen, Stephen had lost his parents in 2014, so that would have been just a complete lie. The driver felt bad, decided to cancel his previous ride and take this guy home. The police were able to track GPS data of the taxi leader and it confirmed it stopped right outside Steven's house. And coincidentally, three minutes after the taxi arrived in front of Steven's house,

Steven's phone was manually powered back on, meaning he had manually turned it off during the time of the murders. And to add to that, the taxi driver was able to ID Stephen in a police line up. He said, that's the guy I took back home. Does place. He said he remembered Stephen very well because Stephen had to run inside his house to grab some extra cash to cover the bill for the fair. So it wasn't like a mindless trip of like, oh, it was one of many.

Now, Steven's attorneys have come out to argue against the taxi driver, and they stated that the taxi driver's testimony can't be used because the taxi driver admitted to seeing Steven's face on the news before the police line up. But that's neither here nor there right now. Another piece of evidence was the police so far have a rough idea of motives.

They found Natalie had exchanged close to 30 messages with an ex-boyfriend. The police believed that this was the catalyst that pushed Stephen over the edge. And the night before the murder, remember how Natalie was spending the night at Stephen's place on Saturday night? The police could verify that Natalie's phone had been unlocked nine times throughout the night. So I guess to them, this might indicate that Stephen had went through her phone the night before, saw these messages. It's been confirmed by Natalie's family that Natalie had given Stephen her phone password, so there's no way to confirm who unlocked Natalie's phone Saturday night.

But the prosecutors believe that was his motive. Now, side note, it doesn't really matter if she was texting her ex-boyfriend or not. It doesn't really matter the nature of the text messages, but I do want to disclaim that we don't know the nature of these text messages. They could have very well been, they were talking about very platonic things. It could have been very well that they were rekindling their relationship. It just really doesn't matter. There's no reason to find something in anyone's phone and then commit murder.

But this still does not address the live streaming alibi. Forensic teams realize that Steven had faked his live stream. Which I'm not sure why you need a whole Forensic team to figure that one out and why it took so long, that's kind of terrifying. But basically, Steven's live stream on December 18 was pre-recorded. He pre-recorded a video, making it look like a live stream, but it was a pre-recorded video file. And then he just played that file during his stream. So you know how you can watch videos during your stream, you can like full screen it.

You just full screened that video file during his stream. So it looked like he was live streaming. But he wasn't. So it's just his face in the corner and he's playing a game, but it's just a video file. It's not actually live. You get it, right? And call light. OK, yeah, I guess it's a live stream.

But it's a live stream because he streamed it instead of uploading and posting the video. OK, OK. He even made an excuse at the beginning of the stream that he could not interact with the chat, which is kind of the main purpose of live streaming is to have real time interactions. He said that he was having technical issues, so he could not interact with the chat.

Steven admitted that he did re-pre-record the six-hour live stream a few days earlier on December 15th. And the fact that Steven hadn't live streamed on YouTube for over a year and suddenly randomly live streamed December 18th, that made it for the prosecutors and the police. It made it just feel all that more premeditated. It seemed like he wanted to live stream for the sole purpose of creating what he thought was an airtight alibi allegedly. So a few days ago he streamed for six hours. And every minute of that six hour is just a fake alibi that he's making. Yes. And every minute of that six hour is just a fake alibi that he's making. Yes. That is so sinister.

He, what's even more sinister is that he even titled it, The Violent Night, Christmas Gaming Stream. The description of the live stream reads, celebrate the most joyous time of year by watching a drunk mash buttons on a controller as if he's some sort of expert, then go mental after failing miserably. Dot dot dot, all in real time. Merry Christmas. Now it gets worse.

Steven is being accused of leaving subtle and sublime messages, like little Easter eggs to what he was allegedly actually doing that night. Prosecutors have said that he left brazen and taunting hidden messages in the pre-recorded live stream. So let's go over some of them, which side note, remember how he stated he couldn't respond and interact with chat because of technical issues? Well, he also states he doesn't want to check live chat on his phone because you can watch your own live on YouTube. So let's say I'm live streaming on his phone, because you can watch your own live on YouTube. So that's it. I'm live streaming on my computer. I can go into my phone and YouTube. Go to YouTube

and see the live chat and respond through my, like, I'm reading the comments on my phone and I'm responding to the live chat like this. If you can't see it on your computer, you could always pull up a second device. He says that he doesn't want to check the live chat on his phone because he doesn't want to be one of those annoying streamers that just stares at the chat and says, ask me questions, guys. Plus, he says that his phone will crash the internet service because the whole setup isn't great. But we do know that his phone was turned off during the time of the murder and wasn't turned back on until after Natalie's murder. But here on his fake live stream, his phone

is on. So the timeline is already not adding on it. after Natalie's murder, but here on his fake livestream, his phone is on. So the timeline is already not adding up? Yeah, so it's clear that it's pre-recorded. It doesn't coincide with just any of the data that they're getting from the cell phone towers. Another thing to note is during his livestream, Stephen keeps checking to see that he's still live, and it's really disturbing when you know that this was pre-recorded, and it wasn't a pre-recorded life. Like, he wasn't live. So throughout the livestream, he hints at the fact that he's drinking while streaming.

Oh, okay, side note about the whole pretending to think that he's live. He'll keep going like, oh, am I still live? And then he just kind of checks and he's like, oh, okay, thank God. Throughout the livestream, he also hints at the fact that he's drinking while streaming. He mentioned that he's going to be staying home all night because he's been drinking so he can't leave. He's like, the only drinking and driving I'll be doing is in the game, because he's playing Grand Theft Auto. He also says, the amount of police we've lost over the years is frightening, and crime is on the rise. That's why I stick to committing

crimes in video games. It is such a weird thing to say when you know what's going on. I mean, it's unclear why he said it. Was he feeling like he needed to emphasize what a good person he was that he only commits crimes on video games? Did he think that maybe the police would watch this and go, oh, the guy is pro police, let's let him off? Or was he just flaunting that police forces were dwindling in manpower recently? So it's the perfect time to commit a crime. Now through the course of the live stream, around 9 p.m., which is when the police believe

is the time of death. Stephen in this pre-recorded live stream that's playing at the same time as the vicious crime, he takes on a side quest, a side mission on Grand Theft Auto, that you really don't have to take. So technically, this mission does not advance him further in the game. It doesn't seem like there's really any objective. It's like a side quest and it was titled quote waste the wife mission. His quest is to kill a woman and make it look

like an accident. And while he's trying to complete his side quest, he's heard saying, I need to kill this bitch. I need to take her down. Because if I don't, I won't get past this mission. If I don't get her to die, follow la la la. Like he's singing. He also says, time is of the essence. I nearly got the bitch. One more hit on the head, and that would have been her. Lovely stuff. That's what we like to see. He also states, Should be easy, I have made my entire life look like an accident.

And with retrospect, it's pretty bone-chilling evidence. Also, throughout the six-hour stream, naturally, Stephen takes a break every hour so to grab a drink, use the restroom, you get it. And during the majority of his breaks, he would just have a graphic saying that the live stream would continue on soon. It's like a fire graphic, and it says live stream continuing soon or something. Specifically, around 9.15 pm, the screen was replaced with a promotional photo of a James Bond movie, and it was no time to die.

That's what it was called. It says no time to die, and it's James was called. It says no time to die and it's James Bond. It was just briefly flashed on the screen. Exactly around the time that Natalie was suspected to have been murdered. Meaning allegedly, during Natalie's murder, Steven was fake live streaming, completing a side quest of killing a woman and making it seem like an accident, and a promotional poster that said no time to die was shown on screen. And that was put on by him on purpose? Yes. And I'll tell you why. Because if it was an accident, he could have edited it out. It wasn't live. Also, if you've ever live streamed, that's a very bizarre accident to happen. Like you're literally placing a

graphic on the screen. And Stephen would later be seen on screen saying that the poster no time to die was a mistake. He said he pulled his controller and headphone off the computer. It hit the keypad. And that's why this no time to die poster flashed on the screen. He said it was a terrible error. Prosecutors say that's literally impossible. It's also pre-recorded. So if it was a terrible error. Prosecutors say that's literally impossible. It's also pre-recorded. So if it was a terrible error, he could have edited it out. It almost seemed like he was taunting someone. It almost seemed like it just felt so entitled and brazen and it's like he's leaving weird Easter eggs. Another part he's trying to say something about physics. Like, you know how in GTA,

your car is going all these places, and technically that's not how a car would behave in the real world, right? And he's saying, oh, that wouldn't happen in the real world. Absifu, absifu, not Lee. But he says, and he repeats himself, absifu, not Lee.

And he kind of looks at the camera, and it's just this really bizarre eerie moment. And again at this point when he's pre-recording this video, he's already planning her murder because he's pre-recording his alibi, allegedly. It's not like he's pre-filming YouTube videos. It's like alive. He started the video pretending it's alive. It's not a pre-recorded YouTube video

This is not a normal thing to do so we can imagine Allegedly he already had her murder in mind and he's saying these things Why would you break into these apartments? For money for drugs, whatever was in there? Why aren't you afraid of getting caught at doing this? No, who's going to catch us? What a police. It was the height of the crack era, and instead of locking up drug dealers, some New York City cops had become them. I would suit up in my uniform and we're going to want some drug dealers, and I know how to do it really well.

This is the inside story of the biggest police corruption scandal in NYPD history and the investigation that uncovered it all. Did you consider yourself a rat? 100%. I saved my soul just like everybody else does. Listen to and follow the set, an Odyssey originals documentary podcast series available now in the Odyssey app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your shows.

I'm not a big guy man, but I love being that dirty mother f***er. There are a lot of other bizarre unsettling moments on the stream. In one party he says, attack, panic, attack, and he almost has this nod to the camera with the smirk. And it's almost this moment of like, I know you're watching this. And it's really unsettling. He also goes on a brief tangent about how Christmas time makes him nostalgic. He tells his viewers to reach out to people they have not reached out to in a long time. He states that he's alone. He doesn't have many friends left, but he says, quote, text someone Mary Christmas and how are things? Someone who you just haven't spoken to in a long time send them a little text. He also goes on a mini tangent of how much he loves the people that he loves in his life. He says

that he doesn't have a lot of loved ones, but the ones he loves he loves them with all his heart. It's really gross. It feels like he's mentioning this to solidify this like nice guy persona. Not too long after he's screaming into the camera, I will kill you off fucking hell. What the fuck does it fucking take you bastards? He also states Christmas is about passing love onto a younger generation. He says and I quote, uh, hinting at his unborn child. And I think that's something I'm looking forward to doing more than anything else, really. What is he saying? He's saying Christmas is all about passing love to a younger generation.

And he's saying he wants to pass love to a younger generation this year. Hinting at his unborn child, who he allegedly murdered that same night. He says, it's about the younger generation and keeping that love alive and passing it on. There are other parts where Steven mentions that this year is going to be a great fucking Christmas and he looks at the camera and he looks distracted as he's saying it and as if he's thinking about something and then he states that he's horribly distracted and he continues gaming again with this mark on his face. He also cryptically drops this message. He says, I'm making the most of my free time while I still have it.

There are other unsettling parts of the live stream where he talks about how, again, crime is on the rise, and just the way he says things are so unsettling. Another part, he runs over a female NPC and he says, I did hit you and I liked it. He also has a cryptic message about how he wants to get back into gaming but his efforts will be used elsewhere this coming year. I mean, is he referencing the unborn child that he was allegedly murdering at the time? Was he referencing jail? It's very strange. Just the whole thing is very creepy watching it over. There are so many parts where he keeps trying to sell the fact that it's Sunday, December 18th and that this is live when it's not.

He tries to emphasize his beers non-stop. He keeps talking about his beers and how he's going to pass out after this live stream and how he's only going to be drunk driving in the game and not in real life. In another bizarre part, Steven says, oh fuck off, you don't know me, you don't know what I've suffered, I'm going to go fuck up my life. And another bizarre part, Stephen says, Oh, fuck off. You don't know me. You don't know what I've suffered. I'm going to go fuck up me life. Also, like I said, he would constantly say, is this still streaming? Oh, thank God. And even when he would say, how are you guys doing here and there? It felt like he was mocking his viewers, knowing that this wasn't live. And nobody would be aware at the time. At the end, he says, I think I'm gonna wrap this up.

I'm gonna wrap up the stream with none of you watching at all. And I think, you know, in the stream, it's supposed to come off as like nobody has stayed the full six hours, but it's just, I don't know. The fact that you pre-recorded that and you said those specific words just feels really gross. Forensic teams were able to verify that this was a pre-recorded video that was deleted from Steven's computer five minutes after the live finished, which is interesting if you ask me.

Oh, okay, okay. So the pre-recorded video was on his computer. December 18th, he does the live stream with the video it ends around midnight when he's already allegedly home. It gets deleted off his computer. Another thing to note, December 19th, Stephen uploaded a video. This is before he found Natalie's body, and it's about a Mandalorian lightsaber squad toy review. This is the day after the murder, and I'm assuming, I'm assuming, allegedly if Stephen

did commit the murder, he knowingly knew that he needed to act normal before he discovered Natalie's body, but the fact that he's still uploaded a video, like it doesn't seem like he's a daily poster, so it's just very bizarre. Like this is the same person that allegedly killed his pregnant girlfriend the night before, and this is how affected he sounds.

He's ranting and screaming about how much he hates that toy in the video. The police also stated that Stevens behavior after his initial arrest, he was just uncooperative. So all these pieces of evidence, they start to unravel and finally, Steven was charged with Natalie McNally's murder. The trial has yet to begin, Steven has been denied bail, and it was in this bail hearing that something very sinister came out. The prosecutor said that they were going through Stephen's phone and as a part of evidence,

of course, and they realized that during the grieving process, Stephen had gone over to Natalie's parents' house to be around her parents and to go through this emotional rollercoaster of anger and just processing all of this and he had left his phone there. The McNally parents can verify this and he had come back later to grab it he's like oh sorry I left my phone. Well the prosecutors found out that Steven left it there on purpose because he was recording audio with his phone. He wanted to see what the family thought at the moment. He wanted to see if they suspected him. Which can you even imagine the level of trauma that that that imposes on the

McNally family? Not only do this evil monster allegedly take their child and their grandchild away from them, but he had the the audacity to pretend to be grieving with them. He had the audacity to use their kindness to come into their home to to cry with them and then leave his phone on purpose so he could spy on them to what? To make sure that they weren't on the right path to justice for their child and their grandchild. Like it's sick. Side note about sick. Steven posted a photo of his mom in January of 2023 before his second arrest and the

caption eerily reads, nine years gone today, cherished the woman in your lives. Their absence makes you realize how much you learned from them and how strong they were for you. Mother's matter. Make sure they know that before it's too late. Rest in peace. Now, back to the recording of the McNally family. The judge said what Stephen did by recording

Nathalie's parents was, and I quote, a heinous way of interfering with grieving parents. Like all of us, Judge Waters believes it's a gross invasion of the family's privacy. The judge actually felt enough concern that whatever Stephen had heard in his 40-minute secret audio recording against the family, if he had found something that he deemed inappropriate or he deemed not okay, maybe he would go after the family. Like we don't know what this man is capable of. We don't know if he had murdered Natalie allegedly, because you know, innocent till proving guilty. But the judge did not want to put the McNally family in more harm's way. So the bail was rightfully denied. Stevens defense attorney tried to

appeal this by saying the only crime that Steven committed was lying to his YouTube audience. They stated that Steven lied to his audience by making them believe that he was alive, but he was alive. But that's not a crime. YouTubers pre-film videos all the time. Steven seems to also have invented a new man that came to his house because everyone's like, well, then explain

the taxi being dropping off a man right in front of your house the night of the murder. He basically said that wasn't him. That wasn't him on the bus, that wasn't him in the taxi. A man did come to visit him in his house, but they like got the wrong address. He has not released who this imaginary man is, I mean, allegedly imaginary man, but either way the judge believes Stephen should not be let out, and believes that the murder of Natalie and her baby was meticulously planned. So the next court hearing is on March 24th, and at this point, there's no further updates on the case. In Ireland, they're really good about keeping a lot of information private until the trials,

but I think the pressing question on a lot of people's minds is, why did he do it? And I don't know if we'll ever know the answer to that. And I don't know if there is an answer to that because there's never a justified answer to murder. So whatever answer we get, it's just not gonna be legitimate, but there are theories online of why Steven allegedly committed the crime. The first theory is that he wasn't ready for a child and he felt the only way to get out of his responsibilities was to murder Natalie and the child.

A lot of people back this theory with the idea that Steven is chronically online, stating that Steven seems like the type of person that has no idea about the real world or real life consequences. He's been online for so long, he has spent so much time on the internet that maybe he thinks that's how the real world works. He could get away with this. Another theory is that Stephen might have thought that the child was not biologically his child. Since the couple recently started dating, I don't know, that's a theory. That's not an explanation or an excuse. I do believe as a right now, it's been verified or it is said that Stephen was the biological father, but if it later comes out that he's not, that still doesn't change anything. I don't see how that even matters.

Another theory is more on par with what the prosecutors have mentioned, which is maybe Stephen found Natalie texting an ex, which again, we don't know if these are completely normal text messages or if they were romantic and either way it doesn't matter, but it's a theory that Stephen became incredibly violent and possessive after finding those messages. And it might have hurt Natalie that she was pregnant. But then if they he recorded the live stream days ago, yeah, that means this is already in the plan. It's not like the night before he saw the text message. It's real. Here we go. So the running theory is that maybe he had seen text messages before and then the night before he found more, but Natalie being pregnant might have

made everything worse. I'm trying to wear it correctly because that sounds like it's Natalie's fault and it's not. This is just like the disturbing world that we live in and it's a public health concern that needs to be talked about. Domestic violence against pregnant women is the statistics are shocking. In the US, half of all female homicide victims are killed by intimate partners. Half of all women who are murdered are killed by their intimate partners. And a vast majority of these cases are carried out by a male intimate partner.

But not only that, women are at an increased risk of experiencing violence from their partners during pregnancy. Not less, more increased. A survey done showed that of the people who said they experienced violence from their previous partner while pregnant, 25% of them said it started during pregnancy, which is terrifying. Do you even soak in those statistics and the idea that there are people out there that get violent around their pregnant partners? Have you ever been around someone

who's pregnant? Like my sister was recently pregnant twice, and just the sheer level of anxiety I feel around her, I'm like constantly worrying that she's going to slip on something, pregnant, like my sister was recently pregnant twice. And just the sheer level of anxiety I feel around her, I'm like constantly worrying that she's going to slip on something. I'm constantly worrying that she's comfortable. Is she sitting okay? Like, am I going to bump into her? Am I going to make her trip and fall over? Like, that's how normal people should think. Some theories are that because pregnancy is identified as a time of self-autonomy typically. Women have a lot of awareness.

Their mind-body connection typically tends to get deeper or for people that are pregnant, sorry, tends to get deeper when they're pregnant. Their partner seek to destroy this newfound strength and feeling that they have with themselves when they're pregnant. And more often than not, pregnant people will become also more preoccupied with their

baby that's growing inside of them than being available to their partners. Some male partners may even view the unborn baby as a threat. That once the baby is born, the mother will focus on the child more than they will on them, which can lead to an increase in violence. Or sometimes, they are less available for sexual activities or less available to do housework or less available to tend to the male needs, and that is why they tend to get even more violent during pregnancy. Some studies show that violent men tend to get hyper-violent and hyper-aggressive during a woman's pregnancy, and they will become even more possessive of their

partners. I guess it's just these violent men, they feel like they've lost their entitlement and free access to their partner's body. Because I think when people become pregnant, it's not even about their bodies anymore. You know, so I think you see a lot of toxic male partners that are like, oh, I want to engage in sexual activities right now. And maybe, maybe in the past, this person has, they don't want to do it, but maybe

they do it because the repercussions are too high. But when you do have another baby that you're caring for, you're caring another human life inside of you, you become so protective. You're like, no, I don't care what you say. I'm not doing it because it could hurt my child. There are also instances where male partners will feel fear for the future and uncertainty and they will take it out by becoming violent with their partners. And here's a statistic that's very terrifying to think about.

Women in the U.S. who are pregnant or who have recently given birth are more likely to die from murder than to die from pregnancy-related complications. As a pregnant woman in the U.S., you are more likely to be killed by an intimate partner than you are at risk of dying from hyper-tensive disorders, hemorrhaging, sepsis, pregnancy-related complications. I'm like so infuriated. Like this is a health emergency.

It's a public health crisis. It's a disease. And to further prove the point that people need to start changing, there was a Reddit comment that I stumbled on and it was boiling my blood so much. Someone commented about Natalie, the victim in this case. Also, I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions about the girlfriend being innocent. The baby could not have been Stevens. As if in... Like, I don't even know how that makes sense in someone's mind.

How does that even dictate innocence or not? That's not a crime. How do you even use that as a justification of murder? Natalie's parents were devastated. They said that they had even let Stephen take 20 minutes alone with Natalie's body before she was put to rest. This was the day after Christmas. They believed he was a grieving partner. They believed he should have the right to say his goodbyes to his girlfriend, but also

to his unborn child. He cried and said that he was so sad they had plans to purchase a future home together and raise their family. And now the McNally parents, they're just haunted at the thought of what Stephen might have done or what he might have felt in those 20 minutes being alone with Natalie. But more importantly, the McNally parents, they lost Natalie, they lost their grand baby, Dean,

and they said moving forward, they just want to focus on advocating for violence against women because that's what Natalie would have done. I'm gonna link a few organizations that I personally have supported in the past and I really like what they do. I think that you should always do your own research, make sure that they align with what you're looking for. But I think that as someone if you're interested

in true crime and the psychology behind of why people do what they do and hear these stories, it's equally as important to support the victims and just work on creating a system that's just makes it harder for people to commit these stories, it's equally as important to support the victims. And just work on creating a system that's just makes it harder for people to commit these crimes. Because like those pregnancy statistics, those domestic violence statistics, just shook me to my core.

So please make sure to check out the organization's linked in the description. Unfortunately, during the course of Natalie's investigation, three more Irish women were killed. One of them was also pregnant, and a lot of the people in the community, they're just fed up. They're fed up with the violence against women, with women being murdered and the world moving on again until the next woman is murdered. A close friend of Natalie said, the path Natalie took was full of joy and success, and it was about to get even better with the growing life inside of her, her little boy Dean. You, Steven, allegedly, put an end to all of that.

You selfishly decided for some unknown reason that Natalie's life and her exciting future was less important than whatever your deranged motives were that night. The life that you took mattered. The life inside of her mattered. Their future mattered. The hopes and dreams of her family and friends mattered. I will never understand what possessed you to do what you did and I will never. But I hope you know that Natalie was more loved and had made more of an impact on this world than you can ever imagine. Natalie has an army of supporters across the country who will not rest until you are held accountable. When you've been caught and punished, you

will be forgotten. Natalie, however, will never be forgotten. Her legacy of laughter and joy will live on long after your sorry life comes to an end. And the only truth to come out of Stephen's livestream that night, December 18th, is when he says, I tried to be clever and I fucked myself because I'm not clever. I'm actually just a stupid piece of shit in a t-shirt that really needs to be washed. And that is the current ongoing case of Natalie McNally. Please stay safe out there and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye. and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye!