Rotten Mango - #28- The McDonald's Killer

Episode Date: December 17, 2020

77 minutes of absolute psychological torture, murder, and loss. His youngest victim was 8 months old.  This might be one of the saddest cases we cover.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rambles. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or pay to description starting at 12.99 per month. I'm a very dramatic person so I'm gonna try really hard not to get dramatic and not to cry during this part.

I just want to clear something up. So maybe about a month ago I did a podcast titled The Chessboard Killer where I talked about a man who was very very adamant in killing 64 different people for each square on the chess board. I think I did a podcast titled The Chessboard Killer, where I talked about a man who was very, very adamant in killing 64 different people for each square on the chess board. And prior to that, I kind of was like, you know, when I like to do these stories, I start with these small stories, and I like to kind of tie it all into like the underlying theme, and the whole theme of that podcast was chess, and people who were obsessed with chess, especially with, you know, the Netflix's Queens's Gambit that is getting a lot of mainstream attention. I talked about a man by the name of Alan, turning very briefly, and he was an English mathematician, computer scientist,

logician, crypt analyst, philosopher, and a theoretical biologist. He is a genius man. When I was researching the case, I'm so upset about this. I found that he was arrested for gross indecency. I think there was three different articles that I read that this is all my fault, by the way, not the articles. That failed to mention that when they said gross indecency, which was the actual term that he was arrested for, that in the 50s in the UK homosexuality was considered gross in decency. I'm so upset by this, I had no idea that that's what he was arrested for. If anyone listened to that podcast and thought that maybe I knew and I was agreeing with the term that it was gross in decency that was absolutely not the case at all. I mean

if you guys watch my YouTube channels or if you've been following me for a while you know that that is definitely not, it's not who I am. I really apologize for getting that mix up. I did take that part out of the transport killer podcast. It was a very brief segment but even though I should have gotten it right so I'm really sorry. I do all of the research for the podcast myself and I guess I just slipped through the cracks there's really no excuse so I'm really sorry. Okay let's not get emotional. So in order to have some lightness after that I want to talk about fast food today because I am an American citizen born and raised so I feel like I can say this about Americans

no I can't but I'm gonna do it anyway I don't know what it, so I feel like I can say this about Americans. No, I can't. But I'm gonna do it anyway. I don't know what it is, but I feel like there's about two things in this world that make Americans go crazy, and I think those two things are fast food and black Friday. You hear all of those stories about people getting just trampled during black Friday for a television that nobody really needs. It's just something about the day, brings out this primal aspect in us and we just go a little bit crazy.

Same with fast food. We have an insane obsession with fast food. Myself included. And so I really wanted to cover a lot of crimes that happen in fast food restaurants. So the main beef of the story today is gonna be about the McDonald's killer and this, I mean, we'll get into it in a little bit but because it is really intense a really dark and very very just upsetting and sad podcast I wanted to start

with some lighter stories to just kind of lighten up the mood so this takes place in Shawnee, Oklahoma at a Sonic. Police get a call and they said hey the local Sonic is getting burglarized the alarms are going off we need to go we need to go see what's going on. Now the police, they skirt, they drive all the way over there and they're expecting to see like a regular fast food burglary. I mean, probably a window is shattered.

Probably someone trying to enter the cash registers, the safe in the back. And so they arrive at the sonic, they see that there's broken glass everywhere. There's also a little bit of blood on the broken glass. So they're like, okay, maybe the burglar had tried to sh you know, shatter this glass and end it up cutting himself and now that's the burglar's blood. So by the time that they get in to the sonic, the police realize, wait a second, do you hear

that? And they see that there is a man still inside of the restaurant. And now they know that this is not the manager, this is not another police officer, this is the freaking burglar. So they immediately rushed to the burglar being like hey catch that dude and they're running after him The burglar looks behind him and it's like oh my gosh. I've got to make a run for it So he starts running out of the restaurant now. This is going to ensue a high-speed foot chase like point eight miles an hour 13 mile foot chase. Jerry Brutosis, jizzing in his grave right now.

I say 13 miles because that's how long it takes for me to find a mile. Now thankfully it doesn't last very long because it's about two blocks away. Where the suspect decides to stop. Now if you were burglarizing an entire restaurant, where would you run to? The Black Friday Mall.

To get my TV, my doorbuster sale TV from Walmart. The Sussex runs straight to his own house which happened to be two blocks away from the Sonic that he's burglarizing. So he's like hello police, welcome home like welcome to my house Mekasa Tsukasa. And here's the crazy thing, the police, when they see that he had welcome to my house me casa su casa and here's the crazy thing the police when they see that he Had run to a house they're able to enter the house because the man's had left the front door wide open for them So they enter the house and they find him sitting in his bedroom with blood on his hands glass shattered on the Souls of his feet eating sonic food so they're like Uh, is he pretending that he's just kind of chillin' and so like he's out of breath.

He's like, it was a long two blocks and so they're just like, um, did you just burglarize the Sonic and he's like, no, I don't know what you're talking about. I had this food at home and he's like, where's the evidence? And the police, they're like, okay, well we can give you one major piece of evidence Which is the fact that from that sonic to this man's house was a two-block trail of Sonic food that had dropped out of his arms as he was on the high-speed foot chase I'm talking foot long hot dogs hot dog buns chicken breast corn dogs just dropped leaving a trail Did he but burglar is for the money or the food? dropped leaving a trail. Did he but burglar is for the money or the food? So he was actually a drunk 18-year-old man who was really hungry. I don't I don't think he took any money. Oh man. Yeah and so he was arrested and thankfully he got a really low. Well I don't want to say

thankfully but he did get a really light sentence. I don't even think he got a sentence, really. But this seems like an advertisement for Sonic, honestly. After I read this story, I was like, maybe I kind of want to try Sonic. From what I read in one of the articles, I think that some of the food was like not even heated up and stuff, you know, like it was straight from the fridge. So he had dedication. He was like, I'm going to take it home, and then I'm going to reheat it. And so the next story takes place in Bojangles North Carolina a man by the name of Jason Gross which is kind of a fitting last name now in hindsight he was driving a minivan through the Bojangles and I mentioned minivan because minivan is like such a such a family-friendly car and what he's about to do is so not family

friendly and so he goes to the drive-thru of Bojangles and he orders the chicken leg dinner now the employee at the drive-thru is like wait a minute I'm so sorry sir like we just ran out of Bajangles and he orders the chicken leg dinner. Now the employee at the drive-through is like, wait a minute, I'm so sorry, sir. Like we just ran out of chicken legs. I can't give you the chicken leg dinner. Would you like to look at anything else on the menu? We've got so many different items that you could choose from to still have a nice dinner.

And he gets upset. His girlfriend who was also in the car, she had ordered something. So he goes to the window to get her food and he gets into an argument with the employee, like, how do you run out of chicken legs? This is Bull Drenkels. You should have endless supply of chicken legs.

And the employee is like, listen, I don't know what you want from me, dude. Like, I just work here. Like, I'm pretty sure that's not what this is. Yeah, but he was just like, how? How do you not? Like, you know? And so he's like, really trying to pick a fight

with this employee, and this employee is like, literally, I just work here. Like, I don't know how to explain how we ran out of chicken legs And that is when the man decides to wiggle shimmy shimmy because he's in his car down his pants and scream at the employee Here's a fucking leg for you and whips out his penis and starts dangling it around and then drives off in the minivan In Korea, there's what they call poverty men, which is literally trench coat men. And they go around in trench coats and they go to playgrounds and they go to places where a lot of women are and they're completely naked under the trench coat and they will literally

expose themselves to the women just like take off their trench coat, like open it wide. And the expectation is that people will scream. So I remember that my mom had even told me that in Korea, when there was like this huge influx of poverty men, people kept telling all of the women, don't scream, don't run, just like look at it and then look away. Because you know, you can't give them the reaction that they want. So maybe he's one of those people and he was so dumb because he didn't realize that the drive-through his cameras everywhere. And it became local news in North Carolina that he had to turn himself in to the police

station at 1.30 in the morning. But again, like the underlying tone is that people really love their food. People really love their fast food. There was a man in Minnesota who went to a pizza hut. The police got called because they were like, oh my god, the pizza hut is getting burglarized in the middle of the night. We better rush on over there to catch these little thieves. They rush on over there.

And that's when they're hit with a smell of just chicken wings. And they're like, but it's after hours, you know, I mean, there's no way that it's this strong of a smell. They go to the back into the kitchen and a dude named Corey is just frying up some boneless chicken wings. He's just trying to eat. Is that the one of them? He's just trying to eat. So today's podcast we're getting into heat of it. I'm probably not going to be as light as I am in a lot of other podcasts. I feel like I try to incorporate some humor and some lightness to these dark stories, but

this one it really did fork me up. I'm not gonna lie. This is gonna be the very first mass murder that I cover. I don't plan on like covering a lot of mass murders. There's something about mass murders that make me just really distraught emotionally and it stays with me for days. So with serial killers, it's a little bit different because I feel like, I mean, yeah, there are some people who do romanticize serial killers

and like, there's so much dick talk who will literally be like oh look at this man He's kind of cute and I'm sure there's some aspects of true crime that play into that right but overall I would say with serial killers It's really about the stories of everybody involved and how they were caught and also like what can we take away from this? And they also you know So you know serial killers they killed to kill I don't think they really care that much for notoriety. You would see that a lot of serial killers will start caring about fame and notoriety

after their caught, so, but they don't like try to get caught. You don't really see too many of them being like, I'm ready, like just catch me right now because I just want my name out there. You see a lot of them just try to stay hidden and then they're like, oh, well, I'm bored. So let's just get famous.

But with mass murders, it seems like a lot of the times that is their initial attempt for the murders. It's like, go out with a bang, get my name out there, become almost like this romanticized evil villain in their own heads, which honestly, there's nothing cool about it. So I don't know what's wrong with them. So that's why I will not be sharing their names because that is kind of like the motive

behind a lot of these murders. Today's shooter, we're gonna call him Tim. I was gonna call him shooter, but that's just so intense for the whole podcast. So we're gonna call him Tim. If you're interested in his name, it is out there. I don't think it really matters to the story though. Tim is what's known as the McDonald's killer. He was responsible for the McDonald's massacre in San UC Drow, San Diego, California. It lasted a whole

77 minutes. 21 people were killed and 19 people were injured. And that is not including the survivors. When I say 19 people were injured, I am talking about wounded, went to the hospital. I am not talking about survivors who were unharmed, but mentally and emotionally traumatized. So there was a lot of impact from this massacre. So I'm gonna start with Tim's childhood because this is what I do with most serial killers, right? So Tim's childhood was very interesting. So he was one of two children that was born to a quality inspector and also to a stay-at-home wife. He was actually born in Canton, Ohio, and the massacre ends up happening in California. So at three years old, Tim gets polio. So he would have to grow up wearing these like steel and other braces on his legs. He had kind of a progressive recovery, which back in the day, that was really what you'd

hope for. A lot of the times polio would leave people just incapable of walking and doing normal day activities, but he had a progressive recovery. But here's the thing, he would have a permanent walking difficulty for the rest of his life, like he would have a little bit of a limp. And, you know, I guess he was upset about that. Now, both of his parents were super religious. They were actually, I believe they were, um, Baptist.

So I know his mom was a strong Baptist and I believe his dad was too. But that's when his dad decides to buy a little plot of land in like the Pennsylvania Amish country. And now the mom, who is not Amish, she's getting really upset by this. She's like, oh, absolutely no way. She didn't even step foot onto the property. She refused. She was like, there's no way I'm going to live here.

It goes against my beliefs, which is a little odd because there's nothing written there that says you can't live there from what I know, right? But she was just really upset about it. Now, I think both parents are at fault because he purchased the land even when she said she's not going to live there. So they move onto the land. The mom, she refuses to live there. So she just deserts the family.

She's like, you know what, I'm done then. I'm gone. So she deserted the land. The mom, she refuses to live there. So she just deserts the family. She's like, you know what? I'm done then. Like, I'm gone. So she deserted the family. Tim gets deserted by his mom and people said that this was kind of like the downfall of Tim. This is when he started becoming so heartbroken, so withdrawn from the community, from people, even his dad. His dad would say, hey Tim, why don't you go to the chicken coop and go get me some eggs and his dad would be like Okay, like why isn't he back it's been like 30 minutes the chicken coop is like right out back So then he would go to the chicken coop and he would see his little son crying bawling his eyes out Eyes out slumped against the chicken coop

Sobing I thought he was out there like breaking chicken egg Like we're so used to serial killers He were like so he went out there and breaking chicken eggs. I know. But like we're so used to serial killers. He went out there and all the chickens were dead. Yeah. And so that was kind of like his really sad upbringing. Now he decides to put all of this energy, all of this pent-up sadness into a hobby.

Now he chooses such a questionable hobby. So his only childhood interest became target practice with real guns. A lot of people are going to have a lot of opinions about this. I can't really say anything. I just know that if I have a kid, I wouldn't let them practice with guns. And so he starts practicing with guns, and his neighbor actually called him and I quote, a queer little boy who practiced incessantly with a target pistol.

Now he becomes a teenager, and a lot of people at this time considered him an amateur gunsmith, but also at the same time, he was incredibly reckless. Like if you're gonna be considered a gunsmith, that means you know so much about guns, you're really good at them, you're proficient. But he would do these things randomly, where he would go out and he would shoot at rocks.

If you don't know, shooting at rocks, the bullets can actually bounce back and shoot you. So if you shoot at something where the bullet ricochets, you could get shot. So if no one's gonna do that, but he was doing that. So it seemed like maybe he didn't have too much care for his own lives. I'm not really sure, maybe he was a thrill-seeker. It's just a little odd.

People have noted that's so weird, especially because you know. You know dang well that Tim knows He shouldn't be doing that because Tim is proficient with guns now throughout high school He was completely bullied they said that he was on a super average like the I feel like that's so mean super average They said like it's he was as average as average gets he graduated 51st out of 77 students So they said that in terms of schooling, he was average, education, he was average, in terms of personality, he was average. Like that was like the one word everyone gave him, just like love's guns, but is pretty much average at everything,

right? I'm like, that's me, not the love's guns, but like average. And people said that he exhibited a lot of like anti-social behavior. He came from a super religious family And so he was frequently targeted by bullies bullies were like, let's just freaking do it Like let's just make fun of him. He's a weirdo Now his dad ends up remarrying and he does not have a good relationship with his stepmom So Tim and his stepmom do not get along They also have step siblings that he didn't get along with so this is what he would do when he would come home from school I don't know how he was allowed to take a gun to school

But he did when he would come home from school He would get on to the property which is a farm and he would fire his gun 10 to 12 times to alert the family He was home like before he walked in without He was so cool, right? Like, Bapapat, I'm home, it's Yeah, because he just hated his family, so he was like, Bap Bap Bap, like this is your warning. Like, stay away from me, like I'm home. I don't know if his dad either didn't care,

didn't, or tried and failed, or was, I mean, I'd be scared of him. That's insane. You know, so I don't know. So he grows up to go to community college. He gets a degree in sociology, and then this is where he gets weird. He ends up going to a mortuary school,

and he gets a degree in embalming which is the process of preserving a body for burial. So it's like, you know, making sure that they're not decomposing if you have an open casket and all of these things which by the way like mortuary school, I'm kind of intrigued. I don't know what it is. I always, I have this like random inkling of like, what if I worked in a morgue one day? There's just so much to it that's just so, did you know that they have to like pin your eyelids down? And they have to like sew your jaw closed and stuff

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Your balls will thank you and they will thank me. Just don't send me pics. Get 20% off and free shipping with the code rotten at manscaped.com. That's 20% off with free shipping at manscaped.com and use code rotten. So it goes to mortuary school and that's where he needs his new wife that we're gonna call Tim's wife Tina. That's not her name. We're just gonna call her Tina. And he meets Tina. they end up getting married and they have two daughters together and I'm not gonna release their names, okay? So this is our new family tree, we've got Tim,

we've got Tina, the two parents, and the two daughters. So at this point in Tim's life, he gets a job as an undertaker at a funeral home and he was making good money. So I calculated with inflation in 2020 and he was probably making around $140,000 a year. He was making good money. So I calculated with inflation in 2020, and he was probably making around $140,000 a year. He was making good money. He was prepping bodies, he was arranging memorial services,

and it all sounds like this really dark, crazy horror movie, like what you do in a morgue, what I do in a morgue type of day vlog. But a lot of the times an undertaker has a very boring job. So they have to do like contacting insurances for the families. They have to advise families on how to go with like employment taxes. Now that they're not employed and their family members are like dead. Because there's a lot of paperwork and a lot of

technical stuff that comes with the death, you know, it's not just this is really sad. We're just grieving. And now what? It's like, okay, like this is what you'd have to do for life insurance. This is what you'd have to do on how you would put this in your tax forms. Like, you know, it's kind of complicated. Like, there's a lot of different paperwork that has to be used. So that's kind of what he was doing the majority

of his day. And this revolves around dealing with people, dealing with people who just lost their loved ones. And he was really good at embalming people, but he was really bad with people that were alive. Like, he just like couldn't, he would constantly have problems at work because he didn't get along with any of the grieving families

and he would just make them more sad and their grief worse and he would get very impatient with them, he would get frustrated with them, sometimes he would pick fights with them and his boss was like, listen, what the fork is going on? Like this is your job. What are you doing?

You gotta be sensitive to these people. And so he was on, like this is your job. What are you doing? You got to be sensitive to these people. And so he was on the verge of losing his job. And that's when his house set ablaze. His house just burned to the ground. And so he moves his family back to Canton, Ohio, with his family, and he became a welder. And he had a lot of different positions when he was in Canton, Ohio.

And his family life was just going down. Like Tim, Tim had a lot of issues, and both of the parents seemed to be a little complex towards the children. So apparently Tina, the wife, had a birthday party for the neighbor's kid, and it's kind of confusing because Tim had a very similar situation where Tim also encouraged one of his daughters to go beat up a girl from school. He was like, just go beat her up. Go beat her. This is how you're going to punch her and like gave her all the low down on how to beat beat up a girl from school. It was like just go beat her up. This is how you're gonna punch her

and gave her all the lowdown on how to beat people up. And then when the other kids dad came up to him and was like, hey, Tim, your daughter beat up my daughter. He was like, yeah, and I'll beat your ass too. Like, aren't these videos on TikTok too? Yeah, like the POVs. But it doesn't happen in real life, you know Like usually in real life. It's like oh shit Tim had situations like that, but also Tina apparently did too

So at a birthday party for the neighbor's kid Tina had apparently told one of our daughters to beat up the classmate And instructed her how to do it as well and then Tina ended up getting into a fight with the kids mom Mm-hmm And she pulled out a pistol, and she shoved it in that mom's face, and that mom was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And so the police calm, they arrest Tina, but they never took away her pistol.

Now I'm assuming that it was a licensed gun, and it was under her name or under, you know, tin's name because otherwise they should have confiscated it. I mean, I really think they should have confiscated it regardless, even if it was a licensed weapon, because if you've got the temperament to just like pull it out during a birthday party at another kid's mom, you probably shouldn't have that in your arsenal of things. So he would also have a lot of guard dogs. and she ended up going to a neighbor's house and just kind of like damaging their car a little bit.

I don't know if they had tried to like scratch at the car. I don't know what they did, but apparently Tim just went out into the backyard and shot their German shepherd in the head so that he didn't have to deal with that problem. Yeah, and then one time another neighbor, I believe they had a poodle and it had pooped on his lawn.

And he threatened to kill that dog to the neighbors. They were like, your dog comes anywhere near my property again and I'll shoot it. And people were like, what? Gary, people. Scary people. We actually recently had a neighborhood issue where someone was like putting out like, I think it was like a dryer beads or something on their lawn because dogs would come and poop. So they wanted the dog to like eat the dryer beads and die.

That's what we're speculated on our little neighborhood app. I don't know, that was the speculation around the snakehead. That's a dryer bead. Like the tiny little, you put them in your laundry to make it extra smell good. It's literally like fragrance balls. Oh, they want the dog to eat it to get poisoned and die. Yeah, and so this, apparently, this house was known for always complaining on the app about how dogs Just poop on their lawn and nobody picks it up and then randomly there was like substances left on their lawn and people were like what?

He ends up just shooting his pet in the head and just calls it a day And there was also a lot of domestic violence in the house so Tim was always violent towards Tina and He to calm Tim down when he would get violent, like he would have these phases where he would be extra violent. Like Tina would know that, oh my God, like he's gonna try to do something at this moment, she would get out tarot cards.

She was able to convince him that she could read into his future. And so she would read the tarot cards and they would have a calming effect on him because she would kind of give recommendations on how to achieve this future that the tarot cards and they would have a calming effect on him because she would kind of give recommendations on how to achieve this future that the tarot cards are showing and in order to achieve that you'd have to take a couple baths, calm down, don't raise your voice, you know, take a walk, take a hike, you know, all these things. Yeah, good advice and it would work for a brief amount of time but he

was still very violent towards Tina. Now his relationship with his kids was even worse. So he frequently punched and slapped his kids, punched and slapped. He would also hold knives to their throats. He just was a really, really violent man. Tina said that he was temperamental, anxious, he had general paranoia, he was super violent and super aggressive. So he also did this thing called settling his debts We all know people like this. He had this thing where he was obsessed with every setback insult like general source of frustration Whether it was actually real like if someone had somehow inconvenience Tim and they didn't even know it or maybe They really didn't even inconvenience him but in his head it's an inconvenience. He would remember it. He would take a mental tally of it and what he considered

settling his debts was this person whether they knew it or not would have to do something for him and if they don't do something for him because they don't know that they're in his debt because uh no normal human being functions like that, he would then go and beat them up to settle his debt with them. He was very ill temperate, he was very paranoid and he had enough session with firearms. This is literally the worst combination that has ever existed. So he tried to settle his debts with people and that usually resulted in violence and this is a quote from him, I believe in paying my debts both good and bad. So he's just trying to say like, I believe in paying my debts both good and bad.

So he's just trying to say like, I would also pay my debt. So why shouldn't I go beat these people up? Because I need to settle my debts that they owe me. It's so scary. Like imagine just like accidentally bumping into someone. That's your biggest fear, right? That's my biggest fear because I have met like I would say like three people who are kind of like this and I had no idea that they were like this until like there's like that one realization moment that sets in and you realize they'll bring up something so small that you're like what no normal person would actually bring this up and they bring it up and it was a million years ago and they bring it up in a way that's like yeah so um what are you gonna do about it now? Because you really hurt my feelings when you stepped on my toe.

At the grocery store. Five months ago, we were in the chip aisle. My toe has been hurting since then. And you're just like, what the fuck, dude? I gotta go. And he was also a really intense conspiracy theorist, so he believed. Jimmy Carter. Yeah, Jimmy Carter.

Ronald Reagan. Busy people. I don't know what. Yeah, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan. Bizzy people. I don't know what else to say other than busy as people. I don't care if you agree with their politics, they're busy. They were busy people. He believed that they were conspiring against him individually. Him, just him. They knew his name. They knew he lived in Ohio and they were like, fuck you dude. And they were conspiring against him. And he was also a self-proclaimed survivalist So he was obsessed with the idea that there was gonna be apocalypse that happens So he had this huge cold war conspiracy

He felt like the Soviet aggression would lead to the breakdown of all society There would be economic collapse. There would be nuclear wars. They would just it would be an apocalypse Worldwide everyone would die and so he was committed to surviving this collapse by saving thousands of dollars with the food inside of his house. He started stockpiling weapons. He would even buy guns from his co-workers. He just felt like he needed to defend his family during the apocalypse. He had so many guns in his house at one point.

His Tim was sitting anywhere in the house. His kitchen counter. His sofa. His bed. He could literally easily just reach over it and a gun would be in his reach. Like there were that many guns around the house. He kept every single one loaded and he had kids in his house, remember that, and with the safety's disabled. So he was locked, ready, and loaded.

Yeah. So then he gets into a motorcycle accident and this was a very bad accident where he started getting an Uncontrollable twitch in his right arm. So now he can't really work as a welder and he starts telling his coworker if he can't provide for his family He's gonna die and he's going to quote take everyone with him and this is around the time that he starts telling Tina his wife that He's hearing voices in his head. So they're like, okay, what do we do? They pretty much sell everything and they briefly moved to Mexico because money last longer in Mexico was his reasoning for it. And people kind of question this

because it seems like he's racist. I don't know how else to say it. So people are like, why would you move to Mexico? If you yourself don't like Mexicans, like why I don't understand, people were really confused. People, you know you know it's I'm not even gonna get into why that logic is bad of like why are you racist but like you get it like if you are racist why would you go and move to their land and be like I hate you guys like what are you doing sir yeah and so he said I'm gonna go and show them whose boss that was his direct quote so

people were like um what So he goes to Mexico for a couple of months and it just didn't really last long. He didn't really like it there. So he decides to move back into the United States and the best place to go is through the border of California. So he goes from Mexico into California and he settles down in a town called San Yacidro. Now San Yacidro is very interesting because it's a border town. So this is literally the main traffic is from Mexico and the US. This is literally on the border. It has a population about 13,000 at the time. I think there's a little bit more now and it's considered it was annexed by San Diego. There was a lot of politics involved in this, which means that when a town is annexed by

San Diego, it means that the San Diego Police Department is now going to be governing that town. Like they're gonna be in that town. Instead of, I think there was some border control there, but it would still be a lot of it with San Diego Police Department. And there really wasn't like that much time. But they're not considered fully San Diego.

Is that what you're saying? I mean, they are, but people thought because it was a border town, San Diego wouldn't get it, but they annexed it and somehow they got it. So I mean it was like this whole thing, San Diego just wanted the power of having a border town. So the reason that a lot of people hated this was because San Diego wanted to have a border town, but they didn't want to put resources into that town. So they didn't want to help govern it in a way that made it flourish, that made the residents feel like they were heard and part of San Diego and how to say on how their lives

would be run in this city, right? They just were like, I want that shit because it's on the border. Thank you. But we're not going to like, it was really, yeah, they were underserved and misrepresented as a community. Like it just was a lot of politics involved. And so I believe right now, they're at like 25,000 people, but at the time it was closer to 15,000. And it borders Tijuana, Mexico.

And it's a nice community. I mean, it's peaceful, it's pleasant. This is what a lot of the people who worked in San Diego, San Yucidro said, and they said that it's probably the busiest border crossing in the world at the time. So like, it just matter if it's the US, to Canada, or anywhere else in the world at the time. So like, it just matter if it's the U.S. to Canada or anywhere else in the world, any border between two nations,

this was probably the busiest at the time. They were just busy. There was obviously some crime, there was some violence, and there was also the biggest issue that they had was the biggest heroin issue because they were right on the border town. It was easy access, you know, it was just too easy to get heroin.

This was in 1984. So that's kind of San Yucero, San Diego, and when he moved there, he had a brief little job as a security guard, but he ended up getting fired a couple weeks prior to all of this going down. There was also an alleged suicide attempt where he had put the loaded pistol against his temple, and he started threatening to shoot himself. He was like, look kids, look wife, I'm just blow my brains out And they were all just like what is wrong with you?

Like don't do that and so Tina was able to kind of Disarm him and that's when he started yelling at her. You should have let me shoot myself So it seems like there was a lot going on in his head. There was a lot on his mind now days before the massacre That's where it gets really weird. So two days before the massacre, that's where it gets really weird. So two days before the massacre, he tells his wife that he thinks he has a mental problem. So he recognizes something is wrong inside of his brain. And he said, okay, like, I'm going to try to get help. So he calls the San Diego mental health clinic and he requests an appointment. Now, he was very calm on the phone.

He was just explaining the situation. I think something's wrong with me. I would love to speak to someone. They got his name. The receptionist said that she would call back in a few hours, and he even verified apparently that he said, are you sure you're called back in a couple hours? She said, yeah, we'll call you back in a couple hours. And he said, okay, thank you so much. And he hangs up the phone. Now, allegedly, he's sat by the phone patiently, just like waiting for this call for hours, just quietly sitting there. And this phone patiently, just like waiting for this call, for hours, just quietly sitting there.

And this is not me having any empathy for him, but it is a little sad, because I too have tried different appointments here and there. And it's really hard. A lot of the times you just get voicemail when you need an appointment and you're just like, okay, that's kind of, what if it's really bad at that situation? So he's just sitting next to his phone, okay, like that's kind of what if, you know, what if it's really bad at that situation

So he's just sitting next to his phone and his wife said that abruptly out of nowhere He just gets up from that chair and just walks out of the house and he gets on his motorcycle and he leaves He doesn't say a word to anyone. He doesn't say where he's going. He doesn't say what's going on He just comes back later and he seems like he's completely fine. Now. Here the crazy thing. The receptionist at the mental health clinic had logged his name differently than the way that it's actually spelled. So I don't know if that had anything to do with it. I think after the fact there was a little bit of issues

because people were like, wait, did he seek mental health? Because that's what his wife is saying. But then people were like, I don't have any records. Do you have any records? And it seemed like they had missed spelled his name. Now also, because he had such a polite demeanor and he had no sense of urgency when he was talking to the receptionist, plus she even asked him like have you ever been hospitalized for mental health issues? He said no I haven't because that was the truth. And so because of that she categorized him as a non-crisis inquiry

which means that they will be handled in 48 hours and actually not in a couple of hours. So he really expected to be called back within a couple of hours and he thought that he was going to get help. And so Tim, he comes back home and he seemed really content at this point. So his two daughters, they were now 12 years old and 10 years old and he ate dinner with his wife and his two kids. They biked in a nearby park. They just went biking.

They got home. He and his wife watched a movie like it seemed like he was okay so his wife is like oh like he's okay now like yeah there was like that brief moment today where he wanted to get help but you know maybe he just like needed to clear his mind now the day of July 18th it was a Wednesday that was two days after he called that mental health clinic he decides to go to court because he had to reduce a $75 traffic fine that he had. And he waited three and a half hours at the court so that he could ask the judge to get rid of the fine. And the judge said that he seemed

happy. He seemed polite. He seemed patient. He was intelligent. He was eloquent. And so he reduced the fine. You know, he said that he had recently moved from Mexico and he was in Ohio and he just didn't know that that was against the rules And San Yucidro and he's so sorry and they just took away the field of the fine Yeah, and he waited three and a half hours to get rid of that fine now This is really interesting because when you know that you might die the day You're probably not gonna waste three and a half hours trying to get rid of that ticket finance It's just so odd right? Yeah, so then afterwards they stop by the San Diego Zoo and they're walking through That's when he stops his wife in the middle of this San Diego Zoo and he looks at her and says listen

I think my life is effectively over at this point and she's like what are you talking about sweetie? Like what do you mean your life is over and he says? Well, I don't know. I just feel like it's over she's like well what what about the appointment like did you get an appointment you know like are you having suicidal thoughts again like what's going on like did you get that appointment at the mental health clinic and he looks at her and he says they never called back and I quote well society has had their chance and quote, she didn't think anything of it. I've got a lot of questions for Tina, okay?

I mean, it's gonna get worse later. But I also think maybe. He says stuff like this. Yeah, like, you know, it seems like they, you know, when they have the swings had the episodes, it does escalate very quickly. Yeah, and so they eat Adam McDonald's near the zoo for lunch and they go home. So now this is really quick.

Wait, they ate Adam McDonald? Yeah, and this McDonald's was near the San Diego Zoo, and this is going to come into question a little bit later because the McDonald's that they ate at after the San Diego Zoo with the whole family, I mean, there's a lot of questions of why he didn't perform, not perform, but do what he did at this McDonald's rather than the one-year's house. And some people say it has to do with his family being there. Some people say it has to do with the plain reason that he didn't have any weapons on him,

because he just went to court and you can't bring weapons into court. Or it has to do with the fact that this McDonald's was predominantly white people. And the McDonald's that he targeted and majority of his victims will be either Mexican or Mexican Americans that he will have killed. And he is known to hate immigrants. He hates all immigrants, but specifically he hates Mexican immigrants. And so interesting why he would move to San UC draw then, like, I don't understand. You'll never guess what I'm getting my sister for Christmas. I was just FaceTiming my sister and my dad recently and my dad was making fun of my sister because my sister is spending all of this money on like getting the

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rotten. So they get home from that McDonald's and his wife is just chilling in bed because she was really tired from like the zoo the court the McDonald's and everything and That's when Tim comes in wearing a maroon t-shirt and camel pants and he looks at his wife and he says I want to kiss you Goodbye and so she's like what where are you going like I'm literally about to prepare for dinner So it seems like she wasn't really alarmed by this statement She was just like what are you talking about like what time are you gonna come home from dinner? Like I'm gonna make dinner for all of us and where you going and he looks back at her and he says hunting Hunting for humans and he's super haunting for humans

He's super calmly walks out of the apartment now. This is where it gets crazy I mean people have a lot of questions of why did Tina not say anything? You knew that your husband was seeking out mental health two days ago And then today he says I want to kiss you goodbye. He says I'm going out hunting for humans and he's leaving with multiple guns. Should you not have called anybody? Should you have done something? Well she didn't do anything and I don't want to put the blame on her because I genuinely think even if she did something, he would have found some way shape or form to really still act out on this. I don't even know what to say, right?

But I still think that when someone that you love or like a loved one, maybe she was scared, maybe that was it. I don't know, but it's just kind of, it boggles a lot of people's minds of why she just kind of let them walk out of there. And so he has a gun across his shoulders. He was carrying a box of ammunition.

I'm talking hundreds of rounds of ammunition. He had a bundle that was wrapped up in a trucker blanket and Inside that bundle were two more guns that he was carrying now on his way out of three total guns on his way out But he had hundreds of rounds of ammunition per gun. How is he carrying all that in the back? Yeah, and as he's walking out He looks at one of his daughters and when I say looks at I mean it was kind of Kind of um what do you call it kind of, kind of, um, what do you call it? Kind of implying that I was a glance, like he didn't even look at the daughter. He just kind of glanced at the daughter and said, goodbye, I won't be back.

Like the way that he treats his daughters is very interesting compared to the way that he treats his wife. So it seems that he does abuse all of his family, but it seems like he has a more intense hatred for his kids for some reason. He was just like, goodbye, I'm not going to be back, bye. And he leaves. Now, Tina said that she has no explanation why she didn't report this bizarre behavior. Even though the kid was like, hey, mom, dad said that he's not going to be back. Like, what's going on?

She just doesn't have a reason why she didn't call anyone. But other people called 911, okay? So someone had seen Tim leave the apartment and saw that he was carrying two firearms So they immediately call 911. They don't know who he is I believe it was just like a random witness that lived in the apartment complex and the dispatch gave the wrong address to the responding Officers so they end up showing up at the wrong place. So they call 911 the witness call 911 They give the correct address Dispatch gives the incorrect address.

And so the responding officer is, go to a different apartment complex and they're like, we don't see anyone with the gun. What are you talking about? That's unacceptable. Yeah. Oh, it gets a lot worse. It's a deadly mistake. They go to a different McDonald's later.

Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so at this point, multiple witnesses see him drive. And the way that he's driving is very fascinating. So he was probably only about two blocks away from his apartment complex. And there is this very busy intersection where there's a USPS post office. There's also a big bear supermarket. And there's a McDonald's at the corner of this intersection.

It's a very busy intersection. And so people had seen him trying to drive into the supermarket. Then he makes a turn, then he decides to go to the USPS branch, but then he leaves that branch and then goes into the McDonald's and parks at the McDonald's in the parking lot. This was again, like 200 yards from where his apartment is. Right next to his house, essentially.

Like he could walk there, but he just drove into the McDonald's. Now at 3.56 p.m., he parks inside of that McDonald's. Now at 3.56 pm, he parks inside of that McDonald's. Now, this McDonald's on this intersection in San UC Drow was busy. This was in the 80s where McDonald's had playgrounds and kids love the playground. When you would ask people in the 80s, like kids, what's your favorite restaurant? They wouldn't say stuff like, what's kids favorite restaurant now They wouldn't say stuff like What's kids favorite restaurant now? You know, but they were always saying McDonald's because they love the playground

So this one was really busy was filled with families. It was filled with kids and in Tim's possession He had a 9mm semi-automatic pistol. He had a 9mm car buying and I had a Google this because I've no idea what this is And it's essentially kind of like a rifle in terms of it has a long barrel to fire arm, but it's shorter than the standard rifle. So essentially just picture a rifle, a 9-millimeter rifle. He had a 12 gauge shotgun, and those were his three weapons that he had. He had a box and a bag, and inside of it,

was hundreds of ammunition for each weapon. Inside of that McDonald's, 45 people. There were 45 people inside of the McDonald's. His youngest victim will be eight months old. So he walks into that McDonald's right after he parks and there's just families and children everywhere. And he immediately Tim aims the shotgun at an employee. This employee's name is John Arnold and he was 16 years old, okay? So this is probably like his first job. He's like, oh my god, I'm so excited. I got a job, like I'm trying to make some money

so I can like go out with my friends to the movies, right? And he's like, a 16 year old with a job, like he's just trying to like get responsibility and like get money so we could do these things, right? And when bad stuff happens to people with good intentions, it drives me nuts. And that's when John Arnold looks around and he sees he hears his assistant manager shout and the assistant manager's name is Guillermo Says hey John that guy's gonna shoot you

What? Because he's trying to alert him like get down or something, you know, and so John swings his head around and he sees Tim pointing a shotgun at him and he looks at him and he blinks and John saw him pull the trigger and nothing happened. So he's like, what? And so then Tim goes to looking at his gun and he's like trying to figure out like, what's wrong? And John, honestly, at this point, I think it didn't settle into his brain that this is

real because he thought this was like a sick joke Like with all of you. Wait Tim, go in into the McDonald pull-up a gun and ready to fire a shot. We need to have a service counter. Without anything. Nothing. Just ready to shoot people. Oh my god. And that's when the assistant manager was like, hey John, that guy's gonna shoot you like, you know trying to like,

Oh my god, like we gotta do something. Yeah. And he pulled the trigger and it didn't go off. So John genuinely thought like in his 16 year old brain, there's no way shit like this happens. You know, you're 16. You're innocent. You don't understand that there's people like this in the world. And so he was like, God, what kind of sick joke is this? He thought maybe it was like Gierma's friend. He thought maybe it was like someone pulling a prank on him McDonald's. And he was just like, God, what is wrong with with these people and he starts walking away from Tim

Like walking away from the counter like what the heck just happened, right? And that's when hearing all of this commotion the main manager of this McDonald's her name is Niva and she was 22 years old She this is so sad she had just gotten back from her honeymoon So she had taken a couple days off to go on her honeymoon newly married She's 22 in a manager like she she, she's a whole life, a whole career ahead of her. And she starts walking towards John because she's like, what's going on? Like, why are people screaming?

Like, why did he scream? Hey, John someone's gonna shoot you, right? Like, that's weird. And as she's walking towards him, Tim fires into the ceiling. It goes off. Like, there's a bullet in the ceiling now. And all the families are shocked.

It's like silence. And then he gets the gun and shoots Niva under her left eye. She died minutes later. Then he shoots John in the chest and the arm. And he did not end up dying. He ended up very, very wounded, but he will survive. And this is when everyone in the McDonald's is freaking out. All the employees, all of the families, all of the customers, and this is when Tim screams,

everyone on the ground, and he starts shooting at anyone trying to run out and at all of the windows. So this forced a lot of people to hide under the booths because they saw people running and they saw them go down. So they're like, okay, we're not gonna try to run right now because we don't know what's going on, right? But also in situations like this, it's so easy for people to be like, I would have just run out of there.

I would have done 25 cartwheels. I would have ricocheted off of the slide. Then I would have busted through the window because I ain't dying today. Like, I always see comments like that randomly in certain videos like this. And I'm like, no, like that's like really not how people work in moments like this. Maybe if you're like a trained and Navy seal, but in most situations, people are very like fight or flight, and most people are freeze.

This is when everyone just gets quiet, they start hiding under booths, they start gathering their kids. So a lot of the survivors, they said it was so hectic because you know, when you are a mom or a dad or like a caretaker, your kids are playing in the playground and you're sitting watching them But now they're in the playground so you're trying to gather them

But you're also not trying to get shot because if you're moving around You know that he might look your way and be like why are you moving and then shoot you? So it just was insanely hectic and he goes Tim goes on a rampage Oh, rant and he starts calling everyone a dirty swine Vietnamese asshole. Now, this is really confusing because majority of the time he's going to talk about how he was part of the Vietnam War and how he's killed a thousand people and he's willing to kill a thousand more.

Now there's a lot of weird things that happened because number one, he never served in any military branch in the US. So he never served in the Vietnam War, so that doesn't even make sense. Number two, the victims inside of the Miss McDonald's were predominantly Mexican or Mexican Americans, and I don't even think there was a Vietnamese person there. So it's a little odd. A lot of people speculate that maybe this was a setup to some sort of crazy, not guilty by reason of insanity type of plea, like if he could act like he was he had PTSD and he zoned out and thought he was in

Vietnam or something. I don't think at that moment he was thinking about pleading not guilty. Yeah. But like it doesn't make any sense to anyone because like it's so random. I couldn't find anything in his childhood that even connected him to anyone who was Vietnamese or anything that happened in Vietnam. It's just so odd. Even in like his past, most people will say that he was incredibly racist and hated all immigrants, but he specifically hated Mexican immigrants. So again, like I just don't see why he went in there and said that.

This is again all of his speculation because he's not here to tell us. Not that we'd give a shit about anything he says anymore, right? So then his next victim would be Victor Rivera. So Victor, he's 25 and he was there with his new wife. They had just gotten married recently and they had two beautiful kids. He stands up, he's 25. He stands up and he's pleading with him not to shoot anyone. He's like, okay, it's okay. Now a lot of people think that Victor did this because he felt like he was dealing with

a traumatized veteran. So he was trying to say, listen, it's okay, we're not in Vietnam, we're in San Yusidro, everything's gonna be okay. He was really trying to save everyone. He was trying to save his family, he was trying to save all of the people that were there because he genuinely thought this was a war veteran who was going through some shit. And he felt like there must be love in this man's heart because he's a war veteran. It's not hate in his heart.

It's just trauma. It's PTSD. So he's trying to rationalize with him and he says, it's okay. You don't have to shoot anyone else. We're here to help you. Like he's saying all these nice things and Tim shoots him now Victor screams out in pain when the bullet meets his body and that's when Tim starts repeatedly screaming shot up while he proceeds to shoot Victor 14

more times in front of his wife and his two kids. Oh my god. And in front of everyone who just saw him literally just trying to help everyone, like imagine the trauma of that. Now at this point everyone's hiding under boots and Tim starts walking over and he sees that a bunch of people are huddled together. So everyone had most of the people had come either with their families or their friends. So they had loved ones and companions that they were huddling together with. You also have a lot of instances in today's story where people are shielded by their loved ones and it's gonna make, yeah, you're gonna cry. It made me so emotional.

And so he just is walking through the groups of people that are huddled together underneath these booths. And that's when he stops with a group of six women and children. and that's when he stops with a group of six women and children. He stops right in front of them and he shoots Maria who is 19 years old in the chest and she dies. Then he shoots a nine-year-old nine by the name of Claudia Perez. She was shot in the stomach cheek thigh hip leg chest back armpit and her head. How many shot like just he just went off? He just went off on her. And this is from the six people group?

Yes. And including in that group was Claudia's sister, Amelda, who was 15. So this is her older sister, because Claudia's 9, Amelda's 15. She saw all of this happening and she shoots her once in the hand. So she was wounded by the shooting, but she didn't die. That's when he turns his attention to a 11 year old by the name of Aurora Pena. And she was initially just wounded by being shot in the leg by him, right?

And the reason that she was initially just wounded was because she was there with her aunt by the name of Jackie Reyes, who was 18 years old. She was pregnant and she was shielding her. So Jackie, the pregnant aunt is literally covering Aurora's 11 year old body with her own body shielding her. And this seemed to piss off Tim. So he shoots Jackie Reyes 48 times. She was pregnant and she also had a kid. So her eight-month-old Carlos, her son, eight-month-old, who had just recently gotten baptized, they had done these beautiful pictures. You know, he starts crying because he's eight-month-old. Carlos is like, what's going on with my mom?

Like, what's happening? And so he starts crying and Tim starts yelling curse words at the baby, just like cursing at the baby and then shoots him and kills the eight month old Carlos. Then he leaves that group and he goes over to a man by the name of Lawrence, who was a 62 year old truck driver who was just literally on the job and stopped at this McDonald's to get food and he was shot and killed. Now this is where it gets even worse. Then he walks

over to a family. And this family consisted of three people plus a friend. So there was a woman by the name of Blythe who was 31 years old and her husband Ronald Herrera. Now together they had an 11 year old son by the name of Mateo and he had invited his friend Keith Thomas to come to McDonald's with him and Keith was 12 years old. So there was only two people that were able to fit in the booths that they were hiding in. So Blythe, the mom, she was shielding Mateo, her son with her own body. She was like kind of covering him and just telling him to be quiet. Ronald, the dad, was shielding Mateo's friend under a booth and they were opposite each other.

So they're just I mean Getting so frustrated. So that's when Tim aims for Keith Thomas Tim for some reason was like I'm gonna kill that kid and so he is trying to shoot Keith But Ronald the dad well the friend's dad is shielding him Mm-hmm And so he was only shot in the shoulder, both of his arms, his wrist, and his left elbow. He was not critically wounded, though. He said that the only thing he remembers is he constantly felt like he was falling asleep, and he just felt a lot of heat.

Like there's so much heat, like he was so hot. And it seems like it was the heat of the bullets. Now Ronald, because he was shielding Keith from all the shots, he took over seven shots. In his stomach, his chest, his arm, his hips, his shoulder, and his head, he would later survive, but remember Ronald because it's going to get really intense. A lot of the police will try to tell people that all of the shootings happened within the first two minutes, right? Like the first couple of minutes. However, Ronald's first initial shot, and then the last time he was shot,

there was 40 minutes in between. So people are saying, well, what are you talking about, police? So this is the first round you're talking about. This is the first round. And then Ronald would get shot again 40 minutes later while he's already bleeding and has like multiple bullets in his body. But he will survive. Nowithe and Mateo the wife and the son They will have numerous shots to the head and they will both be killed and then he walks over to a group of friends By the name of Guadalupe and she was shielded by her friends Gloria and address Delcy Now Guadalupe had several shots in her body But she was not seriously hurt and it's so crazy to the point because she was actually one of the first people to be escorted out of the McDonald's after the shootings happened and she had

blood all over her and she thought it was all of her friends and it was really hard for the police to tell her, hey you need to go to the hospital because actually you two have been shot. She had no idea she was shot at this point even when she left the McDonald. She was like, I'm okay, I'm unharmed, my friends, what about my friends? And people are like, you've been shot, like you need to get help right now. And they didn't wanna tell her,

like, hey, you've been shot because they were scared she would go into shock. So they had to like, very ease her way into it. Like, hey, like maybe you should just sit down with the ambulance real quick, you know? Is it because her friend was like on top of her? And yeah, so she was shielded by her two friends, Gloria and address Delsey and

Gloria would actually be unharmed and address Delsey will die in the hospital the next day from a single shot to the head I believe Then he decided to walk over to a man by the name of Hugo and he was a 45 year old banker He was shot and killed with a bullet to the chest now at point, you're probably thinking exactly what I was thinking, where the fork is 911, okay? He walked in at 3.56 pm, and the first 911 call was made around 4 pm, so like four minutes later. And we're gonna get into this, but apparently the person who had called said there's a little girl that's been shot, and people believed,

like the police believed it was maybe like a domestic disturbance, like an accident. They knew in the general area of where it happened, but they were like, okay, like a little girl has been shot. It's probably not a mass murder. It's probably like maybe the parents were fighting or maybe it was a drive-by and something happened and the little girl ended up getting shot. So the dispatch sends the responding officers to a McDonald's that's two miles away. That's on the same road, but two miles away. So it was the wrong McDonald's. Now, why does this matter? Two miles?

I mean, if they put on their sirens, how long is it going to take Stephanie? Why are you making this a big deal? Well, here's why it's a big deal, because this affects lockdown. So when there's a mass murder, lockdown needs to go into place. I'm talking blocks of lockdown.

No more civilians driving onto these roads, because you don't know if the shooter's going to get out, get into a car and start going to a different location. If he is going to run out of there and start shooting at regular civilians that are walking by, like you just don't know. And so the only warning that people had were from other civilians, be like, don't go to the McDonald's, like people are shooting, like run, run, run, right? And a lot more people died. Okay, listen, I know you need a break from that darkness, and I'm gonna give you something really bright and happy because our good friend, she has been talking to us

about starting her own business, her own small business for months now, and every single time we're like, what's going on? Are you two in it? She would say no. I'm literally so confused. I'm not like you, I don't know how the internet works.

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of your beautiful designs, Squarespace is pretty much the place for you. She started selling stationery and she's been obsessed with the process. She said that setting up her website took about one off day from her work. So we were like that's so simple. She even suggested that I start selling some stationery that says not today's head bunty and I was like, that's too edgy. Whether you guys are just getting started or an established brand, Squarespace has a powerful e-commerce platform designed to help your business grow. You can sell unlimited products and services online with no transaction fees, which is crazy because sometimes those can really take a big dump on small businesses

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of making this website, Squarespace is the place for you. And if you're like me and you're trying to do this at three in the morning, okay, because sometimes that's when the motivation and that's when the inspiration takes a hit, Squarespace has 24-7 award-winning customer support. So you can call them at three in the

morning, be like, hey, yeah, I know, I'm still awake, I need help. Make sure to go check out squarespace.com slash rotten for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, just use the offer code rotten to save 10% off of your first purchase of a website or a domain. That squarespace.com slash rotten. So in between shooting at people, Tim started shooting all over the place. Now, if you have been to a McDonald's, especially the back of a McDonald's, like the kitchen area, it's all steel. Like the walls are pretty much steel, like the kitchen countertops are steel, and so you have bullets ricocheting off of the steel. He's shooting at people, but he's also just shooting in general shooting at the wall shooting at the windows and It just it made people really confused like all of the people who are either trying to escape or just literally preserve life

They were very confused at what was going on like what to do next it made everyone disoriented and yeah It made them more confused than ever. He would ask. Yeah, I'm sorry Why isn't anybody outside of McDonald calling? I feel like this point, all the neighbors, all the passengers should be calling the crap out of the cops. Yeah, they were, and then it gets worse. So then that's when he would also go around and shoot people who wouldn't even move.

So whether they were playing dead or they were actually dead, he would shoot them anyway. It seemed like he just wanted to make sure people were dead. But he wasn't killing every single person in sight. He just ran them. He was kind of like randomly and it was frantic. And that's when around 4 p.m. Lydia Flores and her two-year-old daughter, they end up at the drive-thru. So they're going through the drive-thru and because they couldn't hear anyone at the actual intercom station, Lydia ended up driving up to the window because a lot of the times you can just drive up to the window and

place your order and she saw that the window was shattered and there was shattered glass everywhere and that's when she hears gunfire and she physically saw him shooting at people. So she hits that reverse on that car so fast until she hits a fence, she gets out of the car with her two-year-old daughter and they just proceed to hide in the bushes. Because she was scared if she was running, she'd be a target. She would see that someone was there, so she just hid in the bushes until all of it was over like 70 minutes, okay? And then you have the Felix family. So around 4.05pm, the Felix family, which, who consisted of Alstafo and

Marisela and their four-month-old daughter, Carlida, they had parked at the post office and started walking towards the McDonald's. So it's really, it's a lot because there's like so many small things that happen. So Marisela, she was interviewed for a documentary called 77 minutes and I, it's a very frustrating documentary. I would probably watch maybe the first half of it. I only watched it really to get the victim statements, but I will say that the director of the documentary gets heavily involved and almost accusatory against the police a lot of the times. Like he would literally try to catch a police officer in a shitty conversation if that makes sense.

Like he would ask the same question reworded differently just so he could cut. It almost felt like he was trying to get like a sound bite. Like most journalists are trying to get the truth, right? But it seemed like the director in this situation almost just wanted the police officer to say something that he could kind of mark it as like fucked up. So like when you watch it, it's hard to explain, but when you watch it, you know how sometimes

we'll like people will ask you the same question, just reword it and then again and then again, and you're like, yeah, I mean, this isn't even a question that would change anything, but this isn't a question that would even, you know, put fault in the police department. It's literally just kind of like a shitty question. Yeah, yeah. So his intention is. Yeah, so it seemed like the producer went in with the intention of making this whole thing about the police, which I agree there's so much fuck up that the police had. And I'm no way on their side on this one, but it's just when you watch it it's just kind of frustrating like okay like move on like let's actually talk about

the things that they could have done better instead of getting this individual officer to say something that really won't change anything that's the documentary but there is also graphic footage of the incident itself so if you how there are security camera yeah not the actual shooting part but it in itself. So if you... How? There are um... Security cameras? Yeah, not the actual shooting part, but afterwards of the victims laying there. Oh, right. So I wouldn't say that it... You saw some part of it?

Yeah, it's really intense. And so, at this point to the family, the Felix family, they had parked at the post office. Oh, and what I was saying is that, you know, there's a lot of stuff that happens in the day to day. And Marisela, the only thing that she remembers really is that prior you know, there's a lot of stuff that happens in the day to day, and Mari Salla, the only thing that she remembers really is that prior to this, she had to hold her husband, she really wanted to get tacos, but he was like, no, let's get McDonald's, it's right there. Because they were running errands, and they had gone to the post office. So they start walking towards the McDonald's, and that's when they see a bunch of shattered glass. Now, they kind of believed it was an accident or a renovation happening because, like, the amount of shattered glass there was, there wasn't a lot.

Most of the windows were still intact. So that is also a huge thing that we'll talk about later. So they saw a little bit of shattered glass and they saw a man coming out of the McDonald's and he looked like he was in some work gear. He didn't look like he was in all black, just like, ooo, I'm trying to hide, you know, or anything. It was him. Yeah, it was Tim.

And so they kind of assumed that he was the repairman that was walking out of the McDonald's to get to the, yeah, the shattered glass area, right? And that's when all of a sudden, Mari Sella was shot in the face. And she said it felt like a bomb had hit her in the face. She was then shot in the arms, the chest, and the stomach. She would end up surviving this ordeal, but she would go blind in the face. She was then shot in the arms, the chest and the stomach. She would end up surviving this ordeal, but she would go blind in one eye. And one of her hands is completely unusable at this point. Astoffo, he was. Are they outside of McDonald's inside? Outside, walking towards the McDonald's.

And he Tim walked out and he shot them and went back in. Yeah. And then Astoffo was shot in the chest and the head. Their baby, their four-month-old baby, Carlita, she was critically wounded because she was shot in the neck, chest and abdomen. Four months old. Now, this at this point, Maricella, she's like on the ground. There's just blood everywhere. She's been shot in the face. And that's when Astoffo is like, listen, Maricella, give me the baby. Give me the baby. So Maricella gives the baby to the husband. All Stoffo runs. I mean, he's been shot in the chest and the head.

He's running. He sees a random lady, like a civilian, and just hands her the baby, who's bleeding in his shot. And her name was Lucia Velasco. And so he goes back to Marisela to make sure that his wife is okay. And Marisela, when she saw him come back without her four-month-old baby, she collapsed like she fainted. So she fainted against a

car. Lucia, who now has this random person's baby, she doesn't speak any English, she finds a police officer somehow, and she kept saying, it's not my baby, it's not my baby, what do I do? Like, it's not my baby. And so she was holding the head wound with her hand, making sure that the baby wasn't bleeding. And then the police officer held the back wound and he drove with one hand. And he even stopped multiple times during the drive from the McDonald's to the hospital to do CPR on the baby multiple times. So Lucia takes the baby to the hospital. She again calls 911, of course. And Lucia's husband goes and tries to help the Felix parents get to safety.

Felix. Um, the Ostofo and Marcella, sorry, their last name is Felix. And the whole Felix family will end up surviving. Side note, Ostofo actually gets murdered later on in life by someone else that is unrelated to this incident. But um, yeah, the whole Felix family survives this particular incident. but yeah, the whole Felix family survives this particular incident. So that's when three boys who are riding bicycles, they're 11 year olds, all three of them are like 11, and they're riding bikes around the area, and they had just gone across the street to get yum yum donuts.

So at this point, here's what's crazy. Like, police are showing up one by one, but a lot of the times, Tim would come out and just shoot at them. And so they really were outnumbered. They didn't really have like what to do, you know, I'll get into it. So these 3-11 year olds they show up and they were riding their bikes around and that's very common in San Yosejaro. Like I said, it was a relatively peaceful community from what I can tell. And they

had ridden their bikes to a place called Yum Yum Donuts, which was across the street. And that's when they were like, wait, donuts aren't doing it for us. Like, let's go get some Sundays. And so they're riding their bike through the parking lots to get to McDonald's and they hear someone from across the street, like waving them down, like shouting at them, like shouting some nonsense and they can't hear. So one of, they all stop at the McDonald's parking lot

and they're all looking back at the people that are like shouting at them. So they hesitate, right? So they stopped their bikes and they're looking back trying to understand what the civilian is shouting at them and Tim comes out and he shoots all three of them Joshua Coleman was shot in the back arm and the leg and he was critically wounded Then Omar Hernandez his friend was shot multiple times in the back David Delgado was shot in the head and died instantly. So Joshua Coleman, he will end up surviving this incident, but he did see both of his friends die.

So he was laying on the pavement and he saw Omar blood squirting out of him. He couldn't breathe. Omar started vomiting everywhere and then he ended up dying. Now Joshua, for over an hour, he would lay there and pretend to be dead, while he was critically bleeding and wounded, like he needed help ASAP. He was short of breath, he said that it almost felt like his lungs were collapsing. There's really no other way to describe it, And he couldn't get any air, but also he had to try not to be so obvious because he's pretending to be dead, you know? And his two friends will die at the scene.

There is footage of them, like they're, they had fallen over on their bikes. So their bikes are like still on them, I guess, like in between their legs, you know? God, where is the police? So they're all arriving, but this is also, I mean, the first person on the scene, the first police officer, he was shot at multiple times and he said that he was outgunned. So he had a 38 caliber weapon and this man, Tim,

was armed with three high-powered weapons, semi-automatic weapons. So they also, we'll get into it. So then an elderly couple walks towards the restaurant, trying to just get some lunch. It was 74-year-old Miguel and 69-year-old Ada. So they're elderly, right? And they're walking. And Joshua saw them walking to the restaurant. A couple other witnesses saw, too.

So at this point, you do have a lot of witnesses who have gathered, but they're not, what can they do? They're not the police. They don't even have a gun, right? They're just trying to make sure nobody else is going into theming Donalds. And so they're like shouting at the elderly couple. They walk towards the entrance. Tim comes out and shoots Ada in the face and she was immediately killed. He shot Miguel and he was wounded. Now Miguel starts cradling his wife and wiping the blood from her face and he starts cursing at him and at the McDonald's. Like just imagine the anger of like what the fuck, right?

And that's when Tim comes back outside, curses back at Miguel and shoots him in the head and kills him. So they too were outside the McDonald's. So in total it took 10 minutes for the first responder to arrive and he he was officer Rosario Miguel Rosario. He was the first to the scene and Tim shot him multiple times or shot at him multiple times while he was in the car. So he takes cover. He gets out of the car. He was trying

to like take cover behind this like huge truck and you know Tim was shooting at the front of the truck, the back of the truck under the truck. Like really trying to kill this police officer and he said that he could shoot back, but he was totally outgunned. Like he had, like I said, a 38 caliber, you're talking about a man with multiple semi-automatic weapons. It was just really intense. Now at this point, they initiate lockdown, which means six blocks from any direction of that McDonald's was locked down. They had a command post, two blocks away from the McDonald's, and they had 175 police officers in different strategic locations to try to stop this incident. Within one hour, the SWAT teams will arrive.

One hour. Seems very lengthy. Yes, it was rush hour traffic. It's going to get complex. At this point, you know, officer Rosario, he said that while he was getting shot at, he had this flash feeling of just utter sadness because he truly believed that he was going to die and his only sadness was like, oh no, like my mom's going to know that I'm dead.

Like, it's very, he said it was really hard to explain. Like the sadness isn't even the fact that he won't see his mom again, but his mom will just be so sad that he died for his life. For his mom. That's sad. Yeah. So he said that's really his main thought in the first, you know,

couple of minutes that he was shot at. So here's what's also very highly debated. Officer Miguel had a couple of seconds where he did have viewing into the McDonald's and could have shot. Tim. What does that mean? Like he does. That means he had hidden behind a palm tree around the back entrance of the McDonald's and he had a clear view of Tim at one point. So he could have taken shot. Now this is where people will continue to argue this,

but he says this does not make sense. In all of his years of police work, it doesn't make sense for Tim to be alone. Because at this point, this was before in America, we just have constant mass shootings. He might have other people in there. Yes, he thought this was a hostage situation with multiple perpetrators. So he said, if he shoots him and his buddies start executing

everyone, that's bad. He said in his years of police work, it just doesn't make sense for him to be alone. It doesn't make sense because you know at this point we're not dealing with constant mass shootings in the US. So he was like, yeah, like I got to go with what makes sense, you know. And so he said, what if it doesn't even go through the window? Because like the whole McDonald's, the windows are made out of laminate glass, which means that even when Tim was shooting at the windows, most of the glass was spider webbing and not actually being shattered. So that also made it really hard for the police to have view inside the McDonald's because

all they could see was shattered glass, and then the timing of it was around 4 p.m. and the sun was shining directly and reflecting off of the glass, so they could barely see into the McDonald's. And so he said, okay, like, what if it doesn't even go through the windows and it angered him and all of his buddies and they just start executing people, right? So at this point, the police stalled for multiple reasons. Issue number one was that Tim kept firing rapidly

with different guns. That also made police believe that there were multiple different perpetrators inside the restaurants because they sound different. You know, so how could it only be one person? They thought there were multiple criminals. So the bullet holes are not holes, it's just spider webbed glass. So the reflections of the sun just made it really difficult to see inside the restaurant. Issue number 3 was, the police didn't know that people had died yet. They thought they were being held hostage. They didn't know how many had been shot. They didn't know how many were being held hostage because with every gunfire if you can't see inside you could

kind of assume it's a warning shot or just to get attention. You know you don't necessarily think people are receiving each bullet that's being fired. And so there was one person who did escape from the McDonald's and did tell the police that there's only one gun man and there's no hostess, he's literally shooting anyone that's alive and like anyone he saw he's shooting them. But they couldn't really go off of the word of one person because who's to say this person isn't involved in the sensitive either.

So it was just kind of like the police. That's weird. Yeah, so I think what it is is that the police can't risk the lives of so many people that they assumed were still alive just because one person said, no, no, no, no, it's only one shooter. But he's the only one that has any insight. Yeah. Yeah, that last part is a little weird.

I think it's a little weird too. And so then 5.05 pm, I believe, a call was made. Now this again. 5.05, that's an hour later. An hour later, this again is kind of a. When was the 4.05, right? No, 5.05 a call was made. So this again is very like super argued.

But that at 5.05, all responding law enforcement personnel were authorized to kill the perpetrator should they obtain a clear shot Wait, what call is made who made the call? The SWAT commander Okay, so this is where people kind of have arguments so people say why 505 why not 405, you know? Yeah, why an hour do we really care about the the shooters life? No, we don't right? I mean Well, you get it right we don't care about it more than we care about these innocent victims

So um people were kind of questioning that so there was this terminology used back in the day called green light and red light So red light if the SWAT commander says hey red light,, means that you cannot shoot the perpetrator. You cannot. And red light has to be specifically said. It's not like you're always on red light. Red light has to be said, we're on red light. Don't shoot the perpetrator for whatever reason, okay. I mean, there's got to be good reasons that they have something called red light, right?

And green light means it doesn't matter. Anytime you get a clear shot of the dude, you're allowed to shoot him, when you don't have green light you can still shoot the criminal if they are actively showing aggression and violence and trying to take the life of a fellow officer yourself or a civilian so technically not having the green light doesn't mean that they weren't authorized to shoot and kill they just it was just like this weird terminology that was used. So at 5.05 pm, the official call was made that everyone has the green light. But people still technically could kill Tim before that because he was actively killing people or en shooting at the officers. But this would be argued later because people were saying,

no, like you didn't let them shoot until 505, you know? So like what was that hour for but then you know the SWAT commanders were saying no, it's literally terminology and they have since gotten rid of that Terminology because it would be too confusing for people so a lot of civilians were mad like what do you mean no green light? But then they were also trying to say no like that still means that you can technically shoot and kill them, you know? So it just got really complex. Now, this is where it gets crazy. There were a lot of people who were still alive inside the McDonald's And they said that Tim was going crazy inside like he had brought this portable radio And he would start switching it from station to station and at first the people who were listening who were alive felt like maybe he was trying to see like news of the shooting to like kind of gather his next move

But he didn't he's just started playing music and kind of dancing around while he continued to shoot at people and shoot at walls. Now that's where Albert Leo's comes in. So Albert is a McDonald's employee and he was this was his first job ever. He almost called out because all of his friends were like hey it's such a beautiful day like let's go to the beach right? And he didn't want to lie and say that he was sick, so he just came into work because he was like, listen, I don't want to tell them I'm sick. And there's no good reason to be like, hey, I can't come into work today.

Like, I got to go catch some waves, you know? And so he had showed up at work. There was another McDonald's employee by the name of Wendy Flanagan. And she was really confused about like, where the police were, because they could constantly hear sirens from inside, but no police ever came in and stopped the shooters. So they're like, why? Are they confused?

Like what's going on? And she just remembers it being so loud, so loud. What's so loud? Inside all of the bullets. So we've been to the gun range and we wear earplugs and then a set of headphones. And I still get ringing in my ears and I get anxious. And she said it was so loud.

And at the end we know that the shooter had shot out over 250 bullets. So it was non-stop. Now Maria Rivera, do you remember her husband Victor who had tried to reason with the shooter in the beginning? Because he thought it was a war veteran She had her two daughters their two daughters a one-year-old and a four-year-old a bullet had grazed her arm and a her four-year-old daughter had been shot in the leg by Tim and She kept telling her kids because the kids were so traumatized and confused and she kept telling her kids It's gonna be okay and she point like the kids were like pointing at the bullets on the ground and Maria kept saying the ice machine is broken and those are all just ice and so

they're hiding under the booth and she felt like they were all going to die. So she wanted her kids to not be stressed in their last moment so she she said, go to sleep. Everything's gonna be okay. And she was like rocking them to sleep so that they could just sleep. Tim would actually come over and kick Maria and she played dead. And there was a lot of blood because she had been shot and her daughter had been shot and he just walked away. Like this was a miracle because he was going around shooting people who even were dead. So for some reason this miracle happened. Let's talk about the hiding employees. So about 30 to 45 minutes later after the shootings had started, Tim finds a bunch of employees

and a couple civilians hiding in the back kitchen. So he saw about six people and he says, oh there's more. You're trying to hide from me and he starts shooting at them. Witnesses over her to female employee screaming in Spanish. Don't kill me, don't kill me. He ended up opening fire and he killed Margarita Padilla who was 18 years old. Wendy Flan again actually was able to run away. She was 17 at the time. She actually was able to run away. Margarita ended up dying. Wendy went to the emergency exit and it was locked? So she couldn't exit the building and this was in like the basement storage of McDonald's. She had gone down the stairs into the basement where there was an emergency exit or something

and it just, it was locked. So she couldn't do anything. So she hid in the closet nearby. And that's when she was like, oh my god, all these people had this idea because there was a bunch of other people hiding inside of that closet. And that's when Tim was like, oh my god, all these people had this idea because there was a bunch of other people hiding inside of that closet. And that's when Tim finds Albert Leo's. Remember the 17 year old who wanted to go to the beach, but showed up to work instead? Well, he had been shot five times. And that's Tim ran out of ammo. He was, Albert was alive.

And Tim was not trying to let Albert get away, but he ran out of ammo. So he went to the counter, like the service counter of McDonald's and sat there reloading his gun, and Albert was trying to run away, but he didn't know, like when you, I don't know this personally, but from what I can, what I heard, is that when you're shot, you have so much adrenaline pumping.

So Albert, without adrenaline, he stood up and then immediately fell face flat on the ground because he had been shot in his legs and he didn't realize. And so he's like, oh my God. So he starts crawling, crawling away as fast as possible. And he actually managed to crawl down 25 steps into the basement to go to that emergency exit because he's an employee there.

So he knows there's an emergency exit. It's locked. So then he's trying to open the closet, but it's not opening. And then he hears people in there like, shh, because they don't know who it is, right? And then they said all they heard was Albert going, please let me in. And so they open the door and they dragged him in. And oh god, he took off his shoelaces 17 years old. I don't know how he even knows this, you know, I knew nothing when I was 17.

He took off both of his shoelaces and tied one tightly around his right leg to control blood loss and then one around his left arm to control blood loss. And this is the worst part. He didn't want it in danger. Anyone's lives in that closet. So he grabbed a piece of cloth and he just bit down as hard as he could because he couldn't make any noise because Tim had no idea they were hiding in a closet. And he had heard he would have opened fire into that closet. So imagine being shot so many times and he's trying so hard not to make a single sound. Does Tim know that he's in there or down there? Okay so he kind of just... Okay and then there was blood everywhere so it's not like there was like one trailer blood that was leading to the basement, you know?

Yeah. So Tim didn't seem to have any idea. And this is just so sad. And also imagine being co-workers of Albert, and you know that he's in pain. You know he needs help, but what can you do? Nothing. I'm a pretty anxious person. It's funny that I found such an intense passion and true crime and in cases like this. And it's odd because it almost gives me like a feeling of um control over things like at least if I know what's going out there and the psychology of these events I feel like it doesn't make me as anxious I feel like when I first starting and

getting into true crime was a little bit more anxious because I was like whoa what why'd they do that right but now I'm like okay like I can see how this is progressed like how this has happened. And I would like to say that I still need a lot of help sometimes. And if you guys are on the same boat as me, whether it's not true crime or whether it's just overall life, because I think I'm just

overall an anxious person. If there's something interfering with you and your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals, sometimes maybe better help is a place that you can look into because better help will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist and you can actually start communicating in under 48 hours. So like I said, you know, there have been a couple of times where I tried to make appointments and a lot of the therapists in the area are booked out or they don't answer their phones

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with the help of an experienced professional. Right now, you guys can actually get 10% off of your first month at betterhelp.com slash rotten. I wouldn't say all of this is chronologically correct. I do know that Ronald Herrera was shot 48 minutes after his first initial wounding. Just keep in mind It would you know the police and the press and everyone is really just trying to get a detailed timeline of all the survivors But when something like this is happening, it's really impossible, right?

And then all the trauma that's involved and so at this point nearly impossible, right? Exactly. And then all the trauma that's involved. And so at this point, at some point, Tim walks over to the group of six women that he had initially targeted. And do you remember how Aurora Peña, she was shielded by her aunt Jackie?

Well, she noticed, she Aurora noticed that there was a stop in the gunshots. Like there was a moment where there wasn't a lot of gunshots happening, rapid fire. So she had opened her eyes and she saw Tim staring straight at her. Oh my god, makes a eye contact. And he cursed at her through a bag of french fries at Aurora and shot her with his shot gun in the arm, the neck, and the jaw.

She would actually even survive this shooting but she would be hospitalized longer than any other survivors so she did have a lot of injuries. Now, the snipers, part of the SWAT team. So the SWAT team came really late because there was allegedly rush hour traffic. And a lot of snipers were set up at around 4.40 pm. So about 40 minutes after the initial opening of the fire. And so at the roof of a USPS, which was literally right

next to the McDonald's, there was a sniper who was positioned there with his, I think they call it like a backup or something, right? So there was two people, two SWAT team officers up there, and again, they claimed that at 4.40pm, they still believed this was a robbery gone wrong. They also believed that the victims outside of the McDonald's like the three boys on the bicycles the two elderly couple They believe those victims were kind of um due to Tim shooting at the police officers They they kind of assumed that they were collateral damage like um just happened to be in the line of fire But not necessarily intended victims. That's what the SWAT team

Alleges that they felt at the time. They had no idea what was actually happening. They thought that a lot of people were being held hostage inside. And so he was trying to get a good shot. Now Tim had the full advantage. He had full advantage because he had pretty much a panoramic view of all the parking lots. And it just, you know, he could see out the windows. They couldn't see in the windows. He really did have a lot of the full advantage. And he would keep shooting because the police officers, they went to try and go help the three little boys and the elderly couple. And he would just open fire on them and they would have to pull back again.

And then when it got quiet, they would go again to try to evacuate the, you know, victims to see if they can get some medical attention to make sure that if they have the chance of surviving, they can survive. But then they'd have to pull back because they would be shot at. So it was just like this shit show and then all of a sudden a fire truck drove by and this was in range of the McDonald's restaurant and Tim starts shooting at them repeatedly the fire truck. It actually slightly wounded one of the occupants inside the fire truck. I mean... The fire truck was driving by?

Yeah. I don't know if they were driving by in order to like see if they can assist Okay, or what was happening, but um they were just driving by and they were shot out So he's really aggressive. Yeah, so aggressive It seemed like any car any person in the vicinity he would just shoot at them And then this was around 517 pm when a man by the name of Charles Foster 27 year old sniper for the SWAT team, he was on the roof of the post office directly opposite of the restaurant. He gained a clear view. So at first he saw his dangling his legs off on the service counter.

Like just imagine that. He's literally killing these people and he hopped onto the service counter and he's dangling his legs off while he's reloading his gun. And then Tim walks over to the service counter toward the back door, close to the um shattered glass of the drive-thru window, which this was like the first time since 440 allegedly that he had walked near that area. Like in clear view of the snipers. And so Charles Foster, he had a clear shot, he fired one single shot about 35 yards away, which entered Tim's chest, severed his aorta, just beneath his heart and exited through his spine.

And it killed him instantly. And he dropped to the ground. So then Charles Foster, he radios everyone tells everyone that he has killed the suspect. He remains his focus on the motionless suspects. And the police were a little bit concerned still, because at this point, I mean, they had, I would say, 99% confidence that it was only one perpetrator,

but they didn't have 100%. So about a minute later, the police swarmed into the McDonald's and they said that they were not expecting to see what they saw, which was just victims everywhere and blood everywhere. So they immediately went over to Tim and they focused their guns on him. They also handcuffed him because they just wanted to be double sure and they wanted to focus on the victims first and they even asked a wounded girl who was nearby and asked if this male was the only suspect and she nodded. Of

course everyone was really glad it was over but I don't think the police or the SWAT team had really any idea of the full extent of the life's loss. I wouldn't say that this excuses them. I just think that honestly, I don't think they had any idea. It would be like this. I think they should have an idea, but they didn't, right? So there was a lot of trauma on the police officers as well, you know? And so they just they were really confused You know even all of the news people outside they were journalists outside and they were also interviewed for the documentary and they also believed Maybe a couple people were shot like probably not killed. They didn't know at all What was about to happen and it was chaos?

There was families everywhere, you know, people had come looking for their loved ones because they didn't know what was going on. And the information at this point was confusing. The stream of information was really limited. It was not well communicated. People still don't know if there was another suspect. So people are out there outside of McDonald's freaking out because their family members are missing. But also at the same time, like, is it over? Like, we don't even know if it's over. Like, yeah, it's over right now. But like, what if, what if someone comes back? What if someone's still in there?

What if suddenly they start opening fire again? Like, there was just so much. Now, one of the first people to be taken outside, like I said, was Guadalupe, and the full extent of the trauma is that she didn't even know that she was shot. Like, it's crazy. Now, here's where it gets even crazier. All of a sudden, this was the moment

that the McDonald's alarms decided to start going off, which really wouldn't have mattered either way, even if the alarms went off when this was taking place because it might have just added more chaos. So the McDonald's alarms start going off, and all of the people that are hiding in the closet couldn't hear that the police had come in because the alarms are so loud. And so they just kept hiding, thinking that maybe Tim had set off the alarms or something. And then they heard a noise, like, open up. And they were like, oh, fuck, it's like Tim, right?

And then someone busts open the closet door. And there's just like a million guns pointing at them. And it was like a swarm of police and swap members. And because they also didn't know, maybe there were more perpetrators hiding. And that's when they finally got help But I'm sure that was just trauma on top of trauma Keith remember 12-year-old Keith who was shielded by Ronald and He was there at the McDonald's with his 11-year-old friend Mateo. Yeah Keith crawled over to Mateo

And kept waking him up because Keith remember how I said he just remembers how he kept falling asleep during this entire process from the bullet wounds, right? Yeah, so he felt like maybe Mateo was sleeping too. So he kept trying to wake up Mateo He Keith said it took him probably like weeks to understand that Mateo was murdered like that he's dead Like he's not at the hospital like he's not gonna just be okay The crime scene was intense. There was blood everywhere, there was food still on the tables, and the most shocking side of all was the eight-month-old infant who had been shot. They were just laying right next to their mom, like it's... there was also the side of victims who had been killed and they were either shielding each other or holding onto each other.

And that was just a lot. The full damage of this, I don't think we'll ever know because in situations like this, even a one victim murder, I don't think there's any way to really calculate the full extent because their death affects all of their loved ones to a certain degree, and that affects all of their companions and maybe their work life and anyone that knows them. And it's just kind of like this ripple effect, right? So we won't know the full damage. But what we do know is that it was 77 minutes, Tim fired a minimum of 257 rounds of ammunition,

21 victims. Tim was also killed, so if you look up the massacre online, they consider it 22 victims. I consider it 21, because I don't think Tim is a victim. He wounded 19 others. There was 175 police that were on this case. 17 victims were killed inside the restaurant for outside the restaurant.

10 people inside the restaurant were not killed or wounded, and 6 of them were the ones hiding inside the basement utility room. 15 people got out after the shooter went down, like they walked out of there. Like, completely. Yeah. And they were unjured and unwounded. Yeah. There was a lot of, um, we could tell after that there was a lot of attempts from the victims to try to save each other. Cause like I said, a lot of them were with their loved ones and their companions. And so you had a lot of people who tried to stop bleeding on themselves or the people nearby by stuffing their wounds with napkins. And it didn't really work. So out of the 21 deaths, there were 13 gunshot wounds to the head. So the coroner believes that these were 13 people

out of the 21 died immediately. Seven gunshot wounds to the chest. Again, a lot of people believe that the coroner believes that this, that means they died immediately or within a couple of minutes. So the way that the coroner describes it is that he speculates that there's little chance of survival So that even if people got help immediately the max survival time of the type of wounds that they had was about a minute or two

So this has been debated a lot What can you expect? So the coroner saying yeah, even if the police had stormed the place These the type of bullet wounds that these victims had, they would have blood out in a minute or two. So it has nothing to do with the fact that it proceeded for 17, seven minutes. What? So they were just trying to say like, you wouldn't be able to save their lives. Yeah. But what about the trauma? What about the continuous fight? Yeah. So this also is like a hot debate because it's like okay and but also a lot of people don't believe it

Because people were saying well I was there and I saw these people who were groaning and moaning 30 minutes in And then now you're just saying that they would have died a minute into it because I don't know So it's been very hotly debated There there are very two different stories that are constantly being pushed one by the police and one by the survivors, and I believe the survivors. So they say that, you know, that doesn't make any sense. One year old, eight month old, Carlos was the only one who had a gunshot wound to the back that had instantly killed him. A lot of other victims had gunshot wounds to their back, but the coroner is just saying

this was the fatal wound. So the other ones probably like, oh, they also had a gunshot wound to their back, but the coroner is just saying this was the fatal wound. So the other ones probably like, oh, they also had a gunshot wound to the chest or this or that. There is disagreements. Yeah. So law enforcement said that all injured or killed within the restaurant were shot within the first few minutes of him entering the restaurant. Survivors hotly dispute this by saying that he both shot wounded and unwounded people for over 40 minutes since his initial of opening fire

Yeah, I mean I did this is this is something to police. I know I know I know that's what drives me crazy They're just like yeah, that's what we believe and the survivors are like well I was there and they're like no, they're just too traumatized and they're like no We know exactly what we saw like you are you say, are you victim shaped? Like are you saying I'm making this shit up? Like what are you talking about? It drives me nuts.

And so then the victims and survivors said that EMTs could have saved people because for 77 minutes, Tim would go and reshoot people. He reshot people. So who's to say they couldn't have been saved? What? Because the coroner who technically works with the police is saying that We don't believe you Ronald Herrera was very outspoken about this because he was shot like 45 minutes apart from his initial shooting and then a second shooting He survived, but he was wounded and that impacted his wounds so much more it impacted his life so much more and his

ability to recover so much more. It impacted his life so much more and his ability to recover so much more, like what are you talking about? So at this point, McDonald's decides to spend all of their ads internationally. They had like TV and radio ads that were already paid for and scheduled to go up that day and the following day and they suspended everything. In an active solidarity, their biggest rival, Burger King, also temporarily suspended all ads of advertising, which sounds really like, okay cool, like this corporate suspended advertising, wow, right? But, um, I mean, like we've covered so many stories like the Greyhound bus situation on YouTube where a man was cannibalized on a Greyhound

bus in front of all of the other passengers and Greyhound won't even pay out a hundred a mere, which I mean this is a huge corporation, a mere $150,000 to the victims family. Now, in order to ID the victims, the police had to take pulmonary pictures of the victims. They set up a location away from the McDonald's to have families go and identify the victims because there was too much blood. They didn't want the families to go inside the McDonald's. Obviously it would take too much time for them to transport the bodies and then identify them because people were frantic. Like that would take a day or two and people were too frantic. They needed to know what was going on.

They would go up and they would display a polaroid at a time. And the police were in tears too because they said every time you pull up a polaroid at a time. And the police were in tears too, because they said, every time you pull up a polaroid, you look into the crowd, and you can literally see people's faces change because they know that person. And you know, exactly who is able to identify them. They had to hold up polaroids of young kids,

of pregnant women. And it just was bad. The community, everyone was just crying together. The funerals were really intense. So at this point Tina, Tim's wife and the kids were receiving death threats which forced them to actually move away and live with a family friend for quite a couple of months. They all, the whole family attended counseling for over nine months. There's going to be a lot of controversy with this. We're going gonna get back to it. A lot of the victims, um, there was a local funeral home. A lot of the

funeral homes had to use the San Yacidro Civic Center to hold wakes for each victim. The Mount Carmel Church, which was one of the most popular churches in the area, they had to have back-to-back funeral masses in order so that each of the dead could be buried in a timely manner. And so there was so much trauma on the people at this church too. I'm not trying to compare the trauma to the survivors or the families impacted, but imagine just non-stop. You're literally seeing the grief of the community non-stop. Now the San Diego Police Department was facing a lot of issues, okay?

So the actual officers that were involved, a lot of them, they suffered from PTSD, sleep withdrawal, loss of memory, guilt, those are all very severe symptoms of PTSD. They also had to start assessing the tactical methods, which how they responded, because like what the fork are you doing, right? So at this point, the San Diego Department increased training for special units. They also purchased way more powerful firearms because when you are going up against semi-automatic rifles and stuff, like you can't go in with a cute little 38

caliber is what they were saying. They, a lot of police officers reported that they felt angry with the weapon that they had because they knew that they were outgunned. And what that means is that as nothing to do with skill or has nothing to do with personality or who you are as a human, it's like being outcard. Like how are you going to chase down a Lamborghini in a Prius? You know, it's just going to be a lot faster. It's just going to get away from you. There are new methods on how to swarm areas. There's new people were

taking home cars now. So like SWAT teams had take home cars so that they were on call non-stop prior to this. A lot of SWAT team members in the area didn't have take home cars. So they would report to the station, then they would go because they needed a certain vehicle to go and certain weapons to go. They were always on call. San Diego Police Department also purchased a fleet of helicopters to help with these types of situations. And all of this was because why 77 minutes? That was what everyone's question was, the victims, the survivors, the families of the

victims and the survivors, and just the general population of the whole fucking world that was watching was like why 77 minutes? That doesn't make any sense. There was allegedly an internal inquiry. I hate police departments who have internal inquiries, which is every police department because an internal inquiry, really, it means you're investigating your own self. Like, really, you think that we don't know how incentives work for that. So they investigated their own goddamn selves. And they said, you

know, although the arrival of the SWAT team members were delayed and rush hour traffic, we believe that the police department acted timely in their response. Fucking thanks. They said that they couldn't storm the place because of the windows and all the other things that I said. And they said that the, like, the whole not getting the official green light thingy didn't prevent any deaths from being because technically you couldn't still. So they also said that they believe that the operation was handled the way it should have been handled. Now the San Diego Police Department also mentioned a couple other facts of why they were so slow. They said that this was a very tricky situation because they were right at the border. So there's different protocols when you're right on a border town because suspects can try to flee.

You have to alert like border control, like it's just a lot. They said they said it was rush hour traffic at a busy intersection. They said that the timing of the sun and the spider webbing of the windows caused visibility issues. They said that there were victims inside and all around the perimeter which caused further issues. And they also said that they couldn't rush it because so many people were inside,

so they couldn't storm, they couldn't stampede, they couldn't throw in tear gas because that could cause more chaos for survivors or victims. That's what they said. Now there were a couple of very clear mistakes. I mean, you could technically say all of these are still mistakes,

but some of the very clear ones that really aren't arguable is that the SWAT commander, his Bieber wasn't working. So he got the alert 30 minutes later. So his SWAT teams were headed to the location, but the SWAT commander had no idea this was even happening until like 4.30pm. Now he claims that doesn't mean anything because there is a system in place where when the SWAT commander is unavailable that a new commander takes place or something like that, like he was just saying this had no impact on it, but a lot of people were like, what the fact do you mean your Bieber wasn't working? a new commander takes place or something like that. Like he was just saying this had no impact on it, but a lot of people were like,

what the fuck do you mean your beeper wasn't working? Like what are you talking about? And while he was on his way there, he actually took away the green light. He like called and he rescinded the green light. And again, if the sniper saw a threat to the police or themselves or civilian, they can shoot. So he's saying technically that's only chit

that I rescinded the green light. And technically by the books, I did exactly what I was supposed to do. This man actually went on to become the mayor of San Diego for two terms, I believe. So people had some anger about that. Like, you were the SWAT commander of a massacre, and your beeper wasn't fucking working, and now you're just going to be a mayor. But he was elected, so I don't know. I don't know anything about this man.

But he did say that absolutely nothing affected that. And he believes they did the best that they could. He says that he doesn't like to say that because they lost lives, but he doesn't know. Like in hindsight, he's saying everything's better in hindsight. Of course, now I'd be like, no, this is exactly what I would do. But at that time, with the information that we had, this is the best that we did, is what he's trying to say. And for some reason, apparently, at one point, the SWAT team and the police thought

there were three perpetrators. I don't know why. So, and then it went back to just having one suspect. I mean, it was really weird. So then now people also have the question of, what was the motive of Tim? Was it a racial motive? None, none of this makes sense. There was a lot of reports how Tim didn't like the fact that he was the only, and I quote,

American in the apartment complex when he moved to San Yacidro. Even though there was a lot of Americans there because lots of people had citizenship in that apartment, but he's like, no, I'm the only American. And so he just didn't like that. Now the police would come out and say he didn't like anyone. But Tina, his wife would come out and say that he was very anti-immigrant, especially against Mexicans. So was that the motive? The more popular theory of the motive is though the revenge.

He had this huge revenge plot for being fired from his security position. He also had this revenge plot of like how he went from making $140,000 a year to like slowly just losing everything, moving to Mexico, then moving to San UC Drow, and he always felt like the world didn't am dirty. He also felt like he was settling the debt with society because remember how I said settling the debt is so important to him. And when he had mentioned to his wife Tina, society had its chance because the mental health clinic didn't call him back in time. And to people like him, these things could really set things into motion. He is not a normal person.

Yeah. The McDonald's plan to reopen after this. They thought that that was best for the community because they just didn't know what else to do. So they had actually started fixing up the restaurant and then McDonald's corporate had a meeting with community leaders and the community said, we don't really think that's a good idea. So they said that they're not gonna open.

They demolished the McDonald's and they donated the ground to the city with the only one rule is that no restaurant could ever be on that site, which makes sense You know imagine the city is like hey burger king you want to buy this land, you know, so they said okay No restaurant can be on the site so they also started talking about maybe there could be a memorial Maybe we could do a shrine like something of that sort later the land was ended ended up being sold to the southwestern college and They agreed in the sale of the land that there

would be a 300 square foot area in front of the campus extension that would be set aside to construct a permanent memorial to the 21 victims. And the memorial was actually designed by a student at the Southwestern College. It was 21 hexagons, and they were all like different, so it's a tall memorial, and they were all different shapes and lengths and heights to, you know, indicate like their age and stuff like that. And they were all connected though. So they said that the meaning of this is they were bonded together and they hoped that the community in a tragedy like this will stick together just like they did. And every anniversary it is decorated with flowers, but also because

there are a lot of Mexicans in this area. And each, so day of the dead is three days, I believe, that people of Mexican heritage observe, and they also bring candles and offerings. Now, there were lawsuits against McDonald's. So several family members of those who were killed, and with a mixture of survivors, they filed a lawsuit against McDonald's, but July 25, 1987, the judge said that McDonald's or any other business

has no duty of care to protect patrons from an unforeseeable assault by a murderous madman. So what they were saying is that the implemented security measures inside of this McDonald's that are or any restaurant that are typically used to so whether you go to Walmart or Target or any restaurant, typically you see maybe a guard and then CCTV, right? But the judge is saying neither of these things could have possibly deterred the shooter because he didn't care about his own survival.

He didn't care about getting caught, he didn't care about like going to jail or living, even. So none of that would have made him come into the McDonald's and be like, ah, I shouldn't do this here. Yeah, okay. Thanks, son. And so then they were also suing the San Diego Police Department. There were multiple lawsuits against the SDPD and they were exonerated of any culpability or negligence. The judge said, in view of the sheer horror of the ordeal, it is difficult to imagine anything the police could have done or failed to do, which could have made the risk any greater than that to which the victims were exposed before the police arrived. So both in all final lawsuits were dismissed in 1991. Now Tina sucks.

Tina went on to her first, like I wouldn't say interview, but she had called a new station to give her side of the story. And it seems like she does have a lot of guilt, but she also said that the slaughter maybe could have been prevented if her husband had received the psychiatric health that he sought. And a lot of people to that, they said, why didn't you fucking get him help then? Why didn't you call the cops when he said, I'mma go hunt for humans, bye, bitch. Like, you are not in place to say, oh, I think this is how society could have done better. Like, we as a whole could have done better. Like, people were just kind of like, okay, like people had sympathy for the fact that she probably did not have a good life with him. Like,

people knew that she was probably abused. There was no way that he was a saint at home and then did this on his free time, right? But it was just the fact like maybe if it's not your place don't say anything type of reasoning and she also said a psychologist or a counselor could have gotten him to a medical doctor or a psychiatrist and they could have given him medication. A lot of people had a lot of things to say about that as well and then she went on on to sue people, so then it gets worse. So Tina sued her husband's ex-employer, who this was not the security guard position, but a welding position at Babcock and Wilcox.

So he had worked there for, I think, almost close to eight years, and he was a welder. So he worked with a lot of toxins and stuff. And it was a civil lawsuit against the former employer, but also McDonald's. She was seeking five million dollars in damages. Why? She claims that her husband's murder spree was triggered due to the combination of a poor diet, and her husband working around highly poisonous metals without adequate protection over the course of many years. So she says at work,

he would have high levels of lead and cadmium found that were also found in his autopsy, right when he died And that was why it made him crazy Exposure to the fumes of welding for 13 years, you know Without any sufficient respiratory protection made him crazy He they also said that ingesting high levels of sodium from the McDonald's that he always ate made him crazy. When I say made him crazy, I'm not using it colloquially. Like she literally said that it caused him to have delusions and uncontrollable rage. But also people were like, then make a salad and eat at home. Like, what are you talking about? Nobody made him eat there. Nobody made,

you know, with the work thing, it's a little different, you know? But then like everyone with the McDonald's thing, we're like, what? Like that's so confusing. And of course, the lawsuit was dismissed and Tina ended up dying in 2003 from breast cancer. So there was a survivor fund that was set up for the survivors of the massacre and the total of the fund was summed up to be $1.4 million. One million dollars came from McDonald's corporate. They had donated a million dollars to the fund. And the widow of the founder of McDonald's personally contributed $100,000 to help with burial costs, financial aid for the relatives of the diseased and counseling for the survivors. Here's where it gets crazy. Tina received the first payout from the fund.

What? There was a lot of protest from donors and residents, but technically they were considered victims because they were not the perpetrator and now their lives are completely changed as well from this. So you have some people who are like, yes, they are victims too. And then you have another group of people that are like, what the fork? So I mean, I don't know. I think at this point in my life, I am not mature enough to fully sit here and say, you know, I think she is a victim. I mean, there are so many stories where I'm like, the serial killer's family is a victim,

you know? But I think because there were, you know, those definitive moments where I feel like she really could have maybe called the police, but then again, I've never been in a situation of being scared of someone in my own home and then, you know, like someone I'm married to. So I really can't say, but maybe don't give her the first payout, maybe give her like the second, I don't know. Yeah, it just was really controversial. It led to a protest in San Yosey Drow. Yeah. Because I'm sure the community was hurt. Now, do you remember Albert Leo's the 17 year old who was shot and he crawled his way to the faucet and bit down on that piece of cloth. He said that his life was so ruined for a while

because he just had all of this guilt and And he couldn't save anyone, he couldn't help anyone, especially the babies. And he said the only thing that he could do was join the police department. He felt like that was the only thing that could kind of ease him of that guilt. But even when he became a police officer, he just had guilt, he was miserable. And then one day he was driving down like a really quiet road, two in the morning. There was a burning car on the side of the street. So he walked over to it and he thought that nobody was inside. Maybe it was like a burglary.

Maybe it was someone just like vandalizing a car. And he realized that there was a body inside. So he cracked open the window and he pulled the passenger out of the car. It was a man who had worked an 18 hour shift recently and the car flipped over when he fell asleep and it lit on fire. And he yanked him out, and he realized he just saved a life. He didn't freeze, like he felt like he did during the shootings, and he felt like he finally could do something. So he is, I believe, to this day still a police officer. And in the documentary, he was asked if of the victims were in one room right now, what would you say to them? And he said, I'm sorry I couldn't help

which is so crazy because he is a victim and he makes it seem like yeah. So he said I'm sorry I couldn't help. The first responding police officer was also asked the same question, and he, like you could tell he's just so emotional, he couldn't say anything. And I think, like the documentary kind of makes, you know, I think overall the police department and the SWAT commander and the SWAT teams could have done better.

But when you were talking about that one individual officer that just responded to the scene, I think he genuinely, he didn't have the authority to change things, he just did his best, but I think he carries a lot of guilt, just my opinion. Now, one of the other victims, she was an employee, she died, her name is Paulina, and her sister was interviewed, and she was, oh god, this part was so emotional guys. She told her to go to work that day. So Paulina wanted to call off because she had a little bit of a headache and this was like Paulina's first job and so Paulina's

sister was like, no, you gotta go to work. Like that's the responsible thing to do. You can't call off. Like it's not a good look, it's not professional and she went to work. And they asked her if you could say anything to your sister, what would it be? And she asked for forgiveness and she says, because she told her to go to work that day. And now she says it's like completely changed her life, because now when her kid or her friend says they don't want to do something, she just doesn't ever pressure people anymore. Even if she thinks like, no, you should go to school. She just feels like she can't.

That is kind of the story of what happened at McDonald's in San UC, Joe. This one was intense. I had so many distraught emotions for this one for like days. I feel drained. I usually don't cover mass murders for that reason and it's just a lot. I don't know. What are your thoughts on this? And do you think that there could have been a lot that the police could have done differently? I think if I'm mistaken, I don't know the exact figure, but I think at the time yearly SWAT deployments meaning that SWAT teams were sent out to specific locations on a yearly basis was like a couple hundred and now it's like a crazy amount. Let me look up the exact figure because it's kind of even towns with less than

a 5,000 population have SWAT teams and it says as of 2005 SWAT teams were deployed 50,000 times every year in the US and probably a lot more than like what 15 years later. Yeah, yeah. So it's probably really intense now but I think back then it was like not a lot at all. So it seems like definitely there's a lot more going on. And now I think they do swarm like they will go into places now with active shootings. I don't really have a moral of the swan, there's no moral, there's no, there's just tears so I hope you guys enjoyed

today's episode and again I really really I'm sorry about getting the wrong information on Alan Tury and I hope you guys enjoyed today's podcast and I'll see you next week. Bye! on AlanTurray. And I hope you guys enjoyed today's podcast and I'll see you next week. Bye!