Rotten Mango - #29- The Bleach Torture Killer (Case of Kelly Anne Bates & Suzanne Capper)

Episode Date: December 24, 2020

She was tortured with bleach till her skin fell off - and then her friends lit her on fire.  Another girl had her knees crushed by her boyfriend so she could never run away.  Frequently spoken about alongside Junko Furuta's case... these two cases are some of the vilest cases of torture we've researched.  We also do a quick dive into where torture even started (the CIA gets involved). It's an intense one. Buckle up.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rambles. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or pay subscription starting at $12.99 per month. It do be one of those podcasts. I will say that this Rotten Mangle podcast was kind of started by a couple of cases,

a handful of cases that I was like, you know what? I don't feel comfortable talking about this on YouTube. Maybe I will talk about it in a podcast where I don't really have to censor myself where I can fully go into the extent of every single detail about the case so that people know what these horrendous people did. Especially there was this one case of Junco who this gosh, it's so infuriating. We did a whole podcast on it. I believe it's's called the 44 days of torture because you guessed it She was held captive and tortured for 44 days. They stuck fireworks and lit them while they were inserted into her anus and her vaginal canal when she was found when her body was found Excuse me. She actually had like glass bottles of something called Ornament C

Which is like a vitamin C drink in Japan that were shoved into her vaginal canal found, excuse me. She actually had like glass bottles of something called Ornament C, which is like a Vitamin C drink in Japan that were shoved into her vaginal canal. I mean, she died in a torturous way. She was blistered, she was burnt, she was lit on fire, they had it candles taped to her eyelids. Okay, I'm sorry, it's getting so intense. And guess what, her killers? They didn't receive life in prison. I know that's what you were thinking. Well, okay, at least we can rest a little bit today knowing that her tortures and her murderers are probably rotting the rest of their lives in prison. Well, that's not necessarily what happened. And so because of that case, a lot of you guys have been requesting that

I do what is kind of commonly known as the Junco case of the United Kingdom. We also covered the Coca-Cola murder. I know it's like really bad for easing and we probably shouldn't call it that, but what people a lot of the times refer to like the American Junco case that was the torture and murder of Sylvia Lykins. And so these are kind of the cases that are always consistently compared to Junco on most Reddit threads, on a lot of websites and articles that I read that happened in the UK. This is probably, I mean, this is absolute insane torture that we're talking about. And I do want to mention that I did a lot of research on torture for this one, because, you know, I kept asking myself like, are humans the only animals, the only species that torture. And according to Nat Geographic, yeah, Nat Geo.

The close-up cameras of all the animals getting ready to kill each other. So Nat Geo, they have specific tapes of lots of killer whales who will literally find a seal. And there was this one instance where a group of killer whales were bouncing the seal upside down and around in the water almost as if that seal was a freaking soccer ball. And then there's like evidence that a lot of the times dolphins will inflict a lot of torturous injuries onto their prey and sometimes not even for the purpose of consuming them or taking up that space or like claiming that territory or for

mating processes like just just because they were like you know What this feels good this feels right today? So there's dolphins zero killers out there. I heard dolphins are actually really scary. I don't know I didn't do it. I've made sense of research on dolphins But I heard dolphins really do be wild like I heard they're not as cute and like As people think they are that was supposed to be a dolphin. I heard so many story of dolphin are saving humans. Really? I've heard so many stories of dolphins like trying to hump humans. What what where are you reading?

Oh what? Where are you? What website are you on? No like I heard that dolphins are one of the very few animal species that also rape. That's what I heard. But then I also heard that female lions, they will bite male lions balls if they don't mate during their mating period. So I mean, that seems aggressive. And so all of this is kind of up in the air because you'll have a lot of different people

academically speaking that will say no humans are the only Species like the only animal that will torture people and that's because the definition of torture is that you are knowingly Consciously in flicking pain and these people are saying that with things like killer whales with animals like dolphins They don't really have the full extent of knowledge to our knowledge that they understand that they're inflicting extensive pain. So it could just be that they're a little bit on playful, ram-bunctious, you know, like when cats, like they spend a lot of time trying to kill something, it could just be that they're having fun with it. It doesn't necessarily mean that like, oh, I'm gonna do this, so that's this prolongs their pain. Yeah, it makes sense

It's usually just like this feels fun. This feels right. I don't know. That's what I read But then sometimes I'll look at my dogs and I'll be like I know I know that one of my dogs mango the whole names of all Her rotten mango. That's what it's called rotten mango because our dog is real rotten She's a little French ball dog and sometimes she will grab a toy go straight up to our other dog and start Biting that toy right in front of tiger's face and if tiger gets jealous of that toy She will just bite him for no reason. He hasn't even moved. She'll just bite his face and I'm like, you know I think dogs torture each other We're gonna get started on I have two different stories of two different cases of torture in the United Kingdom, but we also have extensive research that I tried to do that would fit into this podcast.

So I'm not really sure how the layout of this is gonna be, but um, it's gonna get wild. So this all starts with a girl by the name of Kelly Ann Bates, and this takes place in Manchester, England. Well, okay, so I guess formally she was called Kelly Ann Bates and this takes place in Manchester, England. Well, okay, so I guess formally she was called Kelly Ann, but just to shorten it a little bit, I'm going to call her Kelly. She was 17 years old when all of this took place, so she was really young. She was actually held captive for a period of over four weeks. The reason that this is known to be one of the worst cases of torture and is often compared

to the cases similar to Junco is that she had her eyeballs gauged out about, and she was probably alive for anywhere between five days to three weeks after her eyeballs have been gauged out. She like really went through a lot. So this is really, really intense. So when Kelly was 14 years old, she ended up meeting this guy while she was babysitting. Okay, and when she was babysitting,

you know how the parents come home and you're like, oh, well, thank you, where's my pay, right? Yeah. Wow, I was a really bad babysitter, huh? Like, where's my money? Where's my money bitch? Give me the money, and I'll give you the kids. So when she's babysitting, her babysitter, baby...

The baby she's sitting. No, like her boss. The parents of the babies that she's sitting comes home, but he ends up coming home with one of his friends. So she's 14, so this is like her boss's friend. And his name was, we're gonna call him David Smith. And David Smith is literally the friend of the person that she's babysitting for.

He is allegedly in his 30s at the time and he seemed to be like a really nice guy. He was just like, listen Kelly, why don't I just freaking walk you home tonight because it's dark outside. You don't know what kind of dangerous people are out there. So I'm gonna walk you home to keep you safe. What Kelly didn't

know is that he was referring to himself and he is the dangerous people out there. Okay, so he walks her home and this is kind of like the start of the grooming process. Now we obviously don't know too much about the first two years of the grooming process because he hasn't come out and like revealed all of the details because he's a freaking arsehole, but also Kelly is diseased, so we don't know too much of that. And when grooming takes place,

it's done in a very secretive manner. You're not gonna, no one's gonna post about it on Facebook, no one's gonna be posting about it on a podcast. Like you are getting groomed and you don't even realize that you're getting groomed or when you're doing the grooming, you're not gonna go tell people,

like I'm doing this shit. We can kind of get an idea. Now, Callie prior to meeting this man, prior to meeting David, she was considered a strong girl that just like really loved playing sports. I mean, she was ambitious, she was active, she was like really bubbly and energetic, like those are the words that are consistently describing Callie. Like she, they said that she had this dream to become a school teacher, and she was really good with people. Like people were like, you know what? You would be a good teacher. Really like a go-getter, she had a part-time job at a local graphics shop when she was 14, so she had a bit of responsibility. She had a lot planned for her future, and she, she was pretty close with her two parents, so she had Margaret and Tommy, who was her dad. And they had a relatively good relationship now, of course, because she is a teenager. It was in all sprinkles and

rainbows, like they weren't having the best time, but she was considered overall a good kid. During this time, since she's 14 to 16 years old, she is consistently getting groomed by a man by the name of David Smith, until the day that she turned 16. So when she was 1415 and 16, her parents had actually thought that she was just dating like a school kid by the name of David. He would constantly call their house a lot and they would pick up the landline and I don't know like I've never really heard his voice. I don't know if there's like a YouTube video out there of his voice, but I don't know if he sounded like he could be 18 or 16 or whatever, but the parents just believed that he was like a school kid, that they went to the same school maybe at worst, maybe he like just graduated from school. They would have never imagined that they

stood with 32 years old. So after two years, when she turned 16, she's like, listen mom, listen dad, I'm so excited because I'm going to introduce you to my boyfriend of two years when she turned 16 she's like listen mom listen dad I'm so excited because I'm gonna introduce you to my boyfriend of two years wow I am so in love with him you are gonna be so amazed by his charisma like he's such a sweet person and so the parents were excited like oh my gosh like Kelly's getting serious like they all kind of think it's still like high school fun like cute and then in walks 32 year old David Smith. Now both of the parents obviously they were disgusted. They were like, what the fork.

Margaret, the mom, she said that the hairs on the back of her neck just immediately shot up into the air when she saw David walk in because, are you kidding me? Now obviously both of the parents were super against Kelly dating him, but in the UK, the legal age of consent was 16. Technically, legally, they couldn't force her to leave David. They also couldn't go to child services and be like, hey, there's this dude who's grooming my kid and she's 16 because they'd be like, well, she's 16, so we can't do anything. It'd be a little bit different if she was 15.

And what I think about this is that I think David knew that. I think Dave knew it and he waited till she was 16. I hear a lot of cases where even in the US, like, there's different legal ages of consent in the US usually. I mean, it's really weird. So apparently in like a certain state, you could be like 16 and technically it wouldn't be considered statutory rape. I mean, you could get charged and technically it wouldn't be considered statutory rape. You could get charged with something to my knowledge. I'm not sure. But these groomers, they know the laws.

They're looking into this. So I have a feeling that that's why they waited so long to tell their parents and meet each other. And the parents were really nervous because what a tricky situation to be in. What do you do? Do you kick out Kelly? Because then she would just go straight into David's arms. Do you get mad at her?? Because then she would just go straight into David's arms. Do you get mad at her? Because again, she would just go straight into David's arms.

Like, what could you possibly do that would bring your daughter closer to you and away from that man? There's practically, I mean, I can't think of one thing. Like, this is, this is literally a parent's nightmare. Like, how, how would you do it? You know, and I do see a lot of people online kind of shitting on the parents about this and I think that there are some things that they could have done differently but also me not having any children I don't think I got the right okay I don't think I have any right to say anything about anything the mom Margaret she's like going around town like asking all her friends she's like do you guys know about anything about like a David Smith like do you think maybe one of our friends have dated him

because like he's old like I don't understand What's going on? Why is my daughter dating someone named David Smith? Now nobody had heard of a David Smith and I mean they had a pretty tight-knit circle from what I could read They had a pretty tight-knit community. So she was just confused like what do you mean? Nobody knows about a David Smith So that's when they find out that Kelly had actually lied to them and 32-year-old David Smith was actually 49-year-old James Patterson Smith. 49. Are you kidding me? She was 33-year-old younger than him. I mean, I know 32 and 16 sounds absolutely marbles, but like 49 and 16?

49! James was only had a one-year difference from Kelly's own father. Which again, if Kelly was 18, and they started dating when she was 18, I probably wouldn't have anything to say about it, but anytime you're groomed before you're 18 or you start talking to them and then suddenly you start dating them when you're 18 It's just all kind of suspicious and so James Patterson Smith He also had just a lot going on in his life None of his domestic violence was ever reported, but I'm gonna give you the lowdown on how bad of a dude this person was

He was an unemployed divorcee So he was married to a woman for about 10 years and it all ended because he was super violent towards his wife. And like she never reported it because she was so scared of him and she was scared of like the social stigma that comes with being a domestic abuse survivor. And so she just divorced him, she left him. Now immediately after the divorce James was like, oh my gosh, let me go start dating again. So he meets this 20 year old Tina Watson and they start dating for about two years And it can be quoted that he used her as a punching bag

He would just punch her around she ended up getting pregnant with his child and he would still continue to beat her Like really badly she would have black eyes all the time It was so horrible that he tried to drown her while she was taking a bath one day. She would get beat every single day. She said that it all started with like a little smack here and there. And then it progressed to being every day. And what happens in situations like this is that you almost feel like well it was so good in the beginning, there must be something I can do to make us go back to like what it was. If you hold on to that, but also you hold on to the fact that like maybe used, I mean this is all part of the torture. It's like psychological

and physical torture. So she ends up getting beat up every single day and she manages to escape this really horrendous relationship. She again out of fear doesn't report it. Now here's a crazy thing. I know people might be questioning why didn't she report it? Maybe if she have reported it, like things would have been different. The reason that I think that she didn't report it is because a lot of the times murders in domestic abuse situations happen after a breakup. So it doesn't even happen when you are dating the abusive partner. It happens after you break up with them because now it's like they have nothing to lose. They're angry. They want to feel control and so that's usually when the murders take place. So I think maybe it has to do with that that a lot of women do not report the abuse and a lot of

men don't report the abuse because it could just get worse from there. Now then he starts dating a 15-year-old. A 15-year-old, I mean 20 is still is still really young, but at least she's an adult, but Wendy Modders had, she was 15 years old, and they start dating, and it's a whirlwind relationship. He starts trying to drown her in the kitchen sink consistently, like he would fill up the kitchen sink with water, and then try to drown her in it for all of these reasons that just don't warrant any of this torture. And it seemed like Kelly maybe knew that he had dated some people and like the reason for the divorce, but

she was always told a very different story of the events, you know. I mean, there's no way he's gonna be like, oh yeah, and then I punched her so she left. So now during this time, Kelly ends up spending more time with James, even though her parents are like, whoa, like first of all, David James, we don't care, we don't want you to do anything with him. And she went from being this bubbly, talkative girl and she started changing. Like there would be periods of time where she would just lay on the living room couch in her family's house in complete silence.

Like the TV's not on, she's not talking to our family, she's just laying there zoning out at the wall. She ends up stop showering. This is really important. She would consistently start wearing baggy clothes and her appearance She just wasn't up keeping her appearance and I think like one of the what I read on mine is that one of the Telltale signs of like seeing if anyone you know is secretly being abused behind closed doors is that There is a lot of moments where a woman will let themselves go and not because they let themselves go

But because their partner is saying why are you getting your nails done? Who are you trying to impress? We're already dating. Why are you doing your hair? Who are you trying to impress? We're already dating. Even though these women love just doing their hair because either it may be it's fun or for their own selves, they will stop doing it because they're so scared that they'll be accused of trying to impress someone in the workplace or maybe at home or school or anywhere. So they just kind of let it all go to be like, hey, no, no, no, I'm really not trying to like gain anyone's attention, you know, like I'm not, I'm not being a little whore. Like that's usually what they refer to as if they're

trying to like gain outside attention out of the relationship. So that's kind of like a good indicator. Some people said, I mean, obviously, not all the time, but they said it's something that does frequently take place. Now one day when she walks home from school, her mom notices that half of her space, her entire side of the face, is just all black and bruised up. And they're like, what the heck happened to you?

And she said, you know, when I was on my way home, I got off the bus and a bunch of girls, like random girls had just jumped me, they attacked me. And her parents are like, what are you talking about? And she said, yeah, and then I collapsed onto the floor, and then the elderly, there was like an elderly couple who was walking by, they walked by me, they picked me up, and I were like, let me attack you home. And the parents are like, this makes no sense, because if the elderly couple found you,

like knocked out on the side of the sidewalk They probably call the police. They probably come into the house and talk to us about it because you are young Like what are you talking about right? And so the parents were starting to get worried that this was an abusive relationship But they just still at this point didn't know what they could do like they couldn't lock her up in her room They couldn't kick her out of the house. They couldn't lock her up in her room. They couldn't kick her out of the house. They couldn't, I mean, this is like the really worst way to phrase it, but like I don't know how I was to phrase it like knock sense into her because when you're 16, you think that this is the love of your life. And so at this point, she starts spending multiple nights at James's house without going

home to her parents. Like she would just stay there all week and then she would come home and tell her parents that she's got like this new job, and that's why she's not coming home all the time. Like she's so busy, her job is closer to James's house, so it's just more convenient, nothing weird is going on, parents, and the parents are having a really, really hard time with this. At one point, the parents even go to James's house

just to like investigate the area, and James lets them inside, she gives them a little tour. Now, there was like this hole in the ground, okay? And Margaret's like, why is there a hole in your ground? Like the living room ground. Like not even outside. Like why is there a hole in your house? And he claims it was because of a gas leak.

He's like, yeah, a gas leak just like made this hole in my ground. There was some sort of weird logic behind it. And the parents just didn't believe it. But they also couldn't accuse him of like, I mean, what can you accuse someone of having a hole in their ground, right? Like, he dug up a little hole? Yeah, it just looked weird. Now we later find out that that's where he was keeping Kelly a lot of the times. Was a hole in the ground.

At that time already? Yeah. He was incredibly possessive. So then, Kelly ends up moving into James's house like full-time. Like she would still come to her parents house every now and then, but it seemed like most of her time was officially being spent at James's house. She ends up dropping out of school, she starts working and she starts visiting her parents less and less. And every time she would visit, her parents would get stressed out because, you know, sometimes she would have bruises all over her arms and her parents would be like, why do you have bruises all over your arms?

She would just say something like, you know, I bumped into something and it didn't make sense to the parents, but again, they don't have proof to accuse James would always make Kelly really, really angry with them. Like why are you accusing him? Like you don't even know him like that. Like you just don't understand. And that's usually what a lot of victims will do because I mean, it's just all part of like the psychology. And it sounds like I know that there's always going to be that one or two people. And I'm sure I've done this before is like, oh, I would

never find myself in that situation. Oh, I would never let this happen to me. But when it happens, it's almost like, it's almost like fog. Like it just seeps into you and you don't even realize it's happened. It's one of those funny situations where I mean, not funny, but it's one of those frustrating situations where everyone can see it, but the person going through it. Yeah. Okay, sometimes cases like this make me feel like I need to just get cozyed up and cuddled and, you know, what significant others are great

But they just like don't do the job. I think it's time to fire them. I'm sorry. It's because I've replaced him with an alpaca color block throw Let me explain. I have this blanket over my shoulders right now You guys know I'm a pretty anxious person and anytime I have something over my shoulders That's heavy and just feels bulky I don't like that feeling and this is probably one of the very few blankets that I have ever owned That I can just throw on top of my body and feel so Comfortable if you guys don't know Jenny Kane. She kind of embodies like that effortless like California style They have very elevated home and wardrobe pieces

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starting to notice all of this bruising but it seems like every time that they pointed out or every time that they get really riled up about it, Kelly just magically seems to have an excuse and a reason for everything. Now this is around the time that James starts getting increasingly possessive over their relationship. Like this is how I don't want to use the word crazy, but like crazy, he was about it. So he would put Kelly on a bus to go visit her parents. So he'd be like, okay, you're getting on this bus. I know that it goes directly here. And then from that point,

it's about maybe like a couple blocks from your house when you get off the bus that you walked to your parents house. And he would time it. The minute that he gets on the bus, he knows exactly around how many minutes it's gonna take for the bus to stop and then how many minutes it should take her

from walking from the bus, stop back to her parents house. And he would call the house phone, the minute that she was scheduled to stop and then how many minutes it should take her from walking from the bus stop back to her parents house. And he would call the house phone the minute that she was scheduled to arrive at her parents house and if she wasn't there, he would fly into a vicious rage. Which is crazy. Because like it could just be as simple as like the bus had an issue or there was traffic today or maybe, you know, someone an elderly person asked her directions on her way back home and she stopped for two seconds to give directions but he would make it up in his

head as if like, oh no, you little hoe, like you went out and talked to boys, didn't you? Like, it just absolutely insane. It makes me so upset. And so this is when the parents decided to go to CPS, the UK's version of like a child protection services, and they were consistently told that because she was above the age of consent that they could do absolutely nothing. It's like if you were to go to CPS about, you know,

a 19 year old dating a 40 year old, they were like, they are above the age of consent and there is nothing that we can do. What about not, don't go to CPS, go to someone else. Like police. Like, police. Yeah, so they try going to the police later and because James at the time had no criminal record and again, because they are adults,

it's almost like if you were to go and report to adults for dating and you're like a family member and you're like, excuse me, I don't like my sister's new boyfriend. That's kind of how the police were taking it at the time. Okay, I'm sorry that you don't like this relationship but it seems like a family issue. So at this point, the parents end up like briefly convincing her to break up with James. taking it at the time like, okay, I'm sorry that you don't like this relationship but it seems like a family issue.

So at this point, the parents end up like briefly convincing her to break up with James. So she starts moving back into the parents house and she had brought her little suitcase with her and she's like, you know what, you're right guys. Like James is no good for me. He is not the great person of our blah, blah, blah. And now Margaret and Tommy, the parents,

they're feeling a little bit of relief from this. Now one day Margaret comes home from work and she sees that the light is on in Kelly Anne's room. And so she goes upstairs to just say hi and stuff and she sees that Kelly's like really busy like packing up her suitcase. So she's like, what are you doing? Like what are you doing?

And she starts just making so many excuses for James and she decides that she's gonna go back and move in with James and give him one last chance. Now at this point, things really start escalating. So now that they had their little breakup moment, James made her quit her job and she stayed every second at James' house. She stopped visiting her parents. She was literally not allowed out of the house at this point.

I mean, in a couple instances, they saw her randomly here and there, but it just was not even like the same as before. Even before was alarming, yeah. So does this sound like a textbook version of grooming? Is that how usually it plays out? Yeah, it feels like a textbook version of grooming domestic violence situations and domestic abuse because I mean,

there is so much psychological and physical torture that's being implemented I am one that categorizes in my head obviously because I have no say anywhere Domestic violence as just straight-up torture. Like I refuse to believe that the abuser has no idea that they're torturing their victims Like I refuse to believe it I know a lot of people will be like no, no, no, I just like loved her too much like no You knew what you were doing so no and so then there was this teeth incident So they had seen her and she had visited the house and Kelly she had this weird Infection on her arm and her mom's like what what's going on? Like let me see closely so her mom gets close to the infection point and she sees that it is so clearly looks like a bite mark

Which like it's crazy because a lot of people will bite like victims of sexual abuse, sexual assault, and domestic violence, a lot of them will have bite marks. And the psychology behind that is just really wacko. It's weird, it's crazy. It's like people don't know how to control like their feelings that they have, so they take it out in violence

and one of those ways could be biting people It is a very very weird thing to do. It's almost animalistic and so you know her parents notice this bite mark And she's like okay, like where did you get this bite mark? Like did he bite you? Did he bite you and Kelly's like no? No? No? No? No? Like listen mom like you're being so dramatic No, why would he bite me? He would never do that. I fell and I hit this fence and I got stuck in the chain links of the fence area and it just scraped my arm. And I think it's a little infected because the fence was my little mom.

Like, don't worry. And so her mom was like, God, this just doesn't feel right. So Kelly leaves. And then about a month passes. And they just were not able to see Kelly at all. So they're like okay this is weird they go over to James's house they confront him and he's like what are you talking about? I never bit her arm. I would never bruise her. You know he just pretty much denies all allegations of the abuse and they weren't even allowed inside. They

weren't even allowed to speak to Kelly briefly. They weren't allowed to even see her through a window. Absolutely nothing. They were turned away. Now, there was the anniversary and the parents birthdays came around and Kelly was known for being really, you know, like I said, she had a good relationship with her family. So she just sent them a card in the mail. Just sent them a card in the mail. Now what's fascinating is that she never signed the card that was set in the mail. Only James signed it. So the parents are saying, why would she not sign it if she sent it? Like that doesn't make any sense, right?

But was she, was that her handwriting? No. What? So the parents are like this, there's no part of this that is Kelly's handwriting. Like this just made them incredibly nervous. So again, they went to James's house and this time, I mean, nobody was like home, like nobody was responding. Now, it got to the point where even a neighbor of James was getting concerned about Kelly

because they had seen Kelly around for like, you know, years now. And they're like, hey, like what happened to that nice little girl that you were hanging around with? And at one point, allegedly, the neighbor was getting so concerned that James had let Kelly briefly wave out of like the upstairs window at the neighbor To like alert them that that she's okay and she's alive and the neighbor remembers like that just being so bizarre Like that's unnatural to me. I mean just like it kind of like Made her not want to call the police because okay like she's alive like she I was probably being dramatic

But also like in hindsight. It's like, oh, that was really odd. Okay. You know? And so, the parents keep going back to James's house, and at this point, everything was boarded up. Nobody would open the door. They were so concerned that they go to the police department, and the police tell them that they cannot do anything,

because James, at the time, had no criminal record. Kelly is a consenting, you know, is the age of consent. So, there's technically no way that they can just barge into just two people's homes for no reason. Just because the parents don't approve of the relationship, like it to the police, to CPS, it all kind of seemed more of like, oh, just family quarrels, like family doesn't like the relationship going on. So they're trying to make a big deal about it when that was not the case. So they were worried that making more frequent stops

at the house would just infuriate James and put Kelly in more danger. Because you don't, it's really hard to predict the actions of an abuser because you just probably are not an abuser. So you're like, I don't know what's gonna take him off. I don't know what's gonna make him mad. What if I show up at the house more

and then he thinks that Kelly's calling me behind his back. You know, so they just were very confused. They were also scared that going to James's house and demanding that he opens up the door or like knocking down the door and like demanding to see Kelly would just push Kelly away or would make James so mad. So they just, they just kind of stopped. They were just hoping that she would come around. And I mean, I don't know how to feel about it. I don't want to put blame on them because I've never been in that situation.

I've never even been a parent, so I don't know the trickiness of this situation, but sitting here right now, not even being in this situation, being a logical thinker in this moment. I can't think of what I would have done. I probably would have knocked down that door, honestly. You would have done that long. I am't think of what I would have done. I probably would have knocked down that door honestly. You would have done that all of a sudden. I am so emotional. Yeah. I would

have dragged him out by the hair and started doing nothing because this is a... would have just started crying also. Yeah, I really wanted to start crying outside, pitched a tent and stayed there until someone opened the door and then had the cops called on me probably and then turns out he was never abusing her because it was a solid my head. So this is kind of where the methodical, psychological tortures happening. She's completely isolated from her family and friends.

She has lost her sense of self completely. She doesn't have anything that she does by herself. There's no school, there's no work. There is nothing to, in Kelly's mind, that makes Kelly Kelly. And that school, there's no work. There is nothing to, in Kelly's mind, that makes Kelly, Kelly. And that is why it's so dangerous. You know, her identity is essentially lost.

She has nothing in terms of interactions with people or activities that don't involve James. And her job is gone. So there's what's called learned dependence. And that's used a lot during like psychological torture, and it just means that you are literally dependent on the person who is torturing you. So how can you leave now? I mean, your food, everything you're allowed to do, and I say that in quotes, allowed to

do, is dependent on that. It's called learned. Dependence, yeah. Then it becomes almost in your head that this person is the only thing that matters to you because oh my gosh Like this person is feeding me and is taking care of me and is paying my bills, you know So obviously this person loves me more than anybody else But what you don't realize in that moment is that that person took away everything first Yeah, and now you're just kind of almost grateful that they're like feeding you when it's like what you had your own job

You know like you could feed yourself you had family who job, you know, like you could feed yourself. You had family who could feed you. You were doing just fine without this person. Now, the parents don't really hear from Kelly for about a month. And then April 16th, 1996, James walks into the local police station and states to the police officers that Kelly is dead. The police rushed to the scene and they find Kelly naked and lifeless on the bathroom floor. So they ask James, obviously, like what the fork happened? Like what is wrong with you?

Like what happened here? And James's side of the story is so freaking ridiculous. You're gonna wanna pull your hair out, okay? He says that they were going at it. They were fighting in the bathroom. And she was in the bath, she was taking a bath and she was yelling at him, and he was yelling back, and then she just started swallowing water,

and she accidentally died, because she swallowed so much bath water that she essentially drowned. And because Kelly just allegedly had this common thing that she would do where she would pretend to be unconscious all the time, he just didn't think much of it, and he left the bathroom being like,

oh, there's Kelly pretending to be dead again And he walked away and did some other things and then when he came back to check upon her Oh my god, would you believe the surprise Kelly was dead That's so dumb and he like who would buy that yeah Nobody bought that especially because it was super clear to the police that that wasn't the case first of all Kelly's blood was pretty much in every single room of the house. And it was a two bedroom house, right? So there was a lot of rooms, like bathroom, living room, everywhere had Kelly's blood. Kelly's blood was smeared on some parts of the walls of

the house. Kelly had also lost 44 pounds in about a month time. And she, when the coroner took her in, she had over 150 separate wounds. Oh yeah, so I mean I don't know what he was thinking. I don't know if he would have gotten like he thought genuinely that he was going to get away with it, but he just was like, oh yeah, she just drowned in the bathroom. You're never going to believe what he says in trial. It's going to make you so freaking mad. So Kelly had lost about 44 pounds in that month. The medical examiner was able to report that she had not received any water

for several days before her death. So she had no water consumption several days before her death. The medical examiner actually said, in my career, I've examined over 600 victims of homicide, but I've never come across injuries so extensive. So let's talk about some of the injuries. And this is going to get really intense. So she was starved, she had lost over 44

pounds in weight, she was deprived of water frequently so she hadn't had water in at least several days before her death. Her knees were completely crushed so that she could not walk out of the house. So this seemed to be a preventative measure to make sure that she wouldn't escape. There were cigarette burns all over her body. She was branded on her thigh with a hot iron. She would have boiling water poured on her feet and her butt so she had scalding on her feet and her butt. And she had a fractured arm. She had multiple stab wounds by knife, fork, and scissors. And they also found multiple stab wounds inside

of her mouth. She had ligature marks around her neck which indicated probably some sort of strangling by either rope, cord, or, you know, et cetera. So there was strangling involved and she was actually tied to a radiator. So a radiator is like one of those like, I would call it similar to like an AC unit but like for heat I guess right like a heat unit I think and so she was tied to a radiator by her hair And that's how she was held captive because like I said her knees were crushed So it's not even like she had all of the strength in the world to just Untie her hair especially because her hands were both completely crushed so that she couldn't do anything to aid in an escape like call crushed so that she couldn't do anything to aid in an escape like call emergency services because she couldn't pick up the phone. She couldn't dial anything on her phone. He mutilated her

ears, nose, mouth, lips and her genitalia. There were pruning shears like gardening tools that were used on her. She was, she was abused by shovels like these these were all weapons that were used in her torture. She was partially scalped, which means like part of her scalp was coming off. And the worst part of it all was that her eyes were gouged out. Now the medical examiner indicated that it was probably done in a very vicious manner, such as ripped out with hands. It didn't seem like it was done in a methodical way and like saying like a knife was used

and then to make it worse, once her eyes were out, her empty eye socket, right? Because I mean eyes are weird. I don't even want to look at pictures, but like she had an empty eye socket. They were stabbed. The empty eye sockets were then stabbed. And this is the worst part.

The medical examiner determined that this could have happened not less than five days and not more than three weeks before death. So at the very least, she was alive for five or more days while this had happened, with the pain of having her eyes gouged out and then her empty eyes socket stabs, and at the very most, three weeks before her death. A lot of people think that it was three weeks because a lot of these injuries seem like preventative measures, and when we say preventative measures, it's done very lightly. Like I'm not saying, like, oh, preventative measures, like having like an emergency

earthquake kit, prevent it in terms of her knees were crushed so that she couldn't run away. Her hands were crushed so that she couldn't call 911 and blinding someone is a very extreme way of preventing them from running away. That's insane. You can't see what's going on. You can't see if someone's nearby or if you can call for help or like you can't see if this is the moment of your escape or you can try to untie yourself. But you know, you prevent people by tie them up or cover their eyes or tie their hands up. But this guy say, I'm gonna crush your bones.

Yeah, it's insane. So what, how is he gonna think, I'm gonna go to the police and say, this is what happened. You're gonna die. Because he says that Kelly wanted him to police and say this is what happened. You're gonna die. Because he says that Kelly wanted him to do all of this. Oh, just wait till we get to the trial.

So before her actual death, she was put into the bathtub. He beat her with the shower head and then drowned her in the bathtub. And then he came up with this wild ass story that nobody was gonna forget, believe went to the police and was like, oh my god, my girlfriend, by the way. Just like swallowed bath water. And now hair dad, Tommy, he had the very, very sad job of identifying the body because I don't think that the mom wanted to. And what he was able to say was, you know, people called him an animal, but an animal wouldn't

do that to another animal. Like you just don't really see situations like that happen. He is a very evil man. So I mean, a lot of the times I feel like we like to call humans that are just subhuman, that just like to torture people animals, but I don't. I mean what? And the mom she was quoted was saying, I think about how much pain she must have been in, how she must have thought we didn't love her because we didn't save her. The coroner's report said that the official cause of death was drowning, but she did have 150 separate injuries.

Now the trial was going to be really intense, so like I said at this point, the police had no idea about his violent past and when you usually... Why did he turn himself in? He thought that he would get away with it, so he thought turning himself in would be a very easy way to get away with it versus people realizing that she was missing and stuff. And then police investigating and then being like, Oh no, no, no, like I buried her body because she drowned accidentally, you know.

So- So evident that this is a, you know. So I mean, definitely something's weird with him. So the intense trial starts taking place and during this time a lot of women came for it And was like less than I dated him I was so scared of the abuse that I couldn't even go to the police and report it So the woman in his life they come forward they testify at the trial about his violence towards women And that in itself was like shaking up the jury, like just listening to the past testimonies

of these women that he previously dated, the jury was already super upset and emotional, right? And the prosecutor said it was as if he deliberately disfigured her, causing her the utmost pain, distress, and degradation. The injuries were not a result of one sudden eruption of violence. They must have been caused over a long period of time and were so extensive and so terrible that the defendant must have

deliberately and systematically tortured the girl. It didn't just say it's worse than pre-meditated murder. Yeah. Like what is wrong with you? Like you're prolonging the premeditated murder. Yeah, wasn't there a term for it? Yeah, there is a term for it. We're going to get into all the things

about the torture in a second. So the psychologist came out and said that James Smith had just severe paranoid disorder with morbid jealousy and he lived in a quote distorted reality. So this is kind of indicating that when you know, when Kelly was like a minute late, he would think that she was out like, bang in some dude because in that minute, yeah, so much could happen. But honestly, I just, I have no, I don't care. I don't care what the psychologist said. Like, it's great. Good to know. But I'm not sitting here like,

oh, he had issues, right? And so James testifies and this is where you're gonna get so upset. And he would constantly put the blame on the victim, on Kelly, I'm not shitting you. So he constantly said things like, oh Kelly loved putting me through hell and just like winding me up. Oh Kelly would always taught me about how my mom's dead. And he also claimed that Kelly and I quote, had a bad habit of hurting herself to make it look worse on me. So obviously the prosecutor, who's cross-examining this dude who has the balls to sit up here and sail of this shit, said, why did you blind, stab, and batter, Kelly?

Like, why did you beat her like that? Why did you do all of this? And he said, she dared me to do it She challenged me to do it. I didn't do anything. She didn't want me to do. She liked being hurt So gross. What? The jury took one hour to find him guilty He was sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum of 20 years Now the judge said this has been a terrible case,

a catalog of depravity by one human being upon another. You are a highly dangerous person, you're an abuser of woman and I intend so far as it is in my power that you will abuse no more. So even though there is a minimum sentence of 20 years, we can assume that he'll probably be in jail for the rest of his life. Now, it's crazy because in the UK, a lot of cases did warrant the jurors to be, you know, receive professional counseling afterwards. But this was the first time during that time in the UK that every single juror on the jury accepted professional counseling. There were extensive pictures of the evidence that obviously we're not released to the public,

but the jury saw of Kelly's injuries. So you were saying every single jury was traumatized? Yeah, and so you have a lot of cases where the jury is offered professional treatment because of all the trauma that the evidence and the whole case would bring to them. And at one of the times, you have people that are like, I mean, I'll just figure it out, like it's fine. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, that's kind of a shitty situation for the jurors.

You somehow somehow also become a victim of this crime because some people's life could be ruined by the other side of it would be that if you don't have jurors that care or you have jurors that are not affected by it because you know everyone's personality and level of tolerance for things like this is different. Then you could have a lot more people who walk away from their crimes with not much sense. Because if you just had a bunch of people who were like you know what I think Torjor is fun you know I love saw I love the saw movies I love watching this gruesome shit and I like it and I don't care for it at all

Then you could just have him found not guilty. So it's just like one of those like it's like catch 22 like what the heck There's no perfect outcome Do you want to know what a perfect outcome is? That's my audible plus. Okay, listen. I have been obsessed with audible for quite some time now It has been my go-to. It is a leading provider of spoken word, entertainment, and audiobooks. They've got best sellers, new releases, celebrity memoirs, languages, business, motivation. Audible has this new thing called Audible Plus, and you get so much more with their all-new plus catalog. They have thousands of select audiobooks, podcast, audible originals,

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So it's about a woman by the name of Avery and she was just living a regular life when all of a sudden a billionaire was like Hey, I'm gonna die and you get my whole fortune you get my inheritance and here's the catch She has never met this man now a weird law that was written into her inheritance is that she has to go live in his old Mansion for a little bit of time So she moves into that mansion where they've got like four handsome would have been billionaire grandsons that are really confused Why she got the inheritance and the entire mansion is filled with puzzles and just riddles and there's like secret corners secret rooms And just listening to it while I do dishes while I walk on a treadmill notice how I said walk and not run it just puts you in that atmosphere. If you guys are interested you can

start exploring Audible with a free 30 day trial right now. You can visit audible.com slash rotten to get your free 30 day trial or text rot to 500 500. So we're gonna get into the case of Suzanne Kapper who is also another UK based case where she was tortured to death. But first, what the focus torture, okay? Like I had a Google, some weird ass shit. What's the most intense form of torture? Examples of psychological torture.

People are probably thinking that this is a crazy serial killer going on here. So torture comes from the Latin word tortoise, which means to twist or to torment. So essentially, the definition would be inflicting severe physical or psychological suffering on someone, and it's usually done for three purposes, either one, to punish someone, two, to fulfill a desire of the torture, whether that desire is purely getting pleasure

from the torture itself, or whether it's making you scared, making you fearful of them, there's something that the torture wants, a desire, or a forced action, which means to either interrogate the victim, or to extort the victim into a false confession. And this is where the category of government's come into play, because when you think about it,

I feel like on this channel, we talk a lot about how serial killers are like the main form of tortures. But when you look online, it seems that most of the time it is government entities that are the main tortures in this universe. So that's one and fresh and I'm definitely on an FBI watch list. I did this for you. I'm kidding. And it also has to be knowing and intentional and that's why it gets tricky with the law sometimes, okay?

Now, this was really well used in criminal procedures. So, how does torture come about? Like, how is this thing? That's what I wanted to know. Like, did we just wake up as a human species being like, you know what? I do wanna do some fucked up shit today. Like, you know what?

Collecting berries in the wild was fun and stuff, but I wanna see someone cry. I wanna see someone be in pain. Like where does this even happen? How does this become something that we even know about like to do? And it all started with criminal procedures to investigate and get the truth, aka a forced confession or to punish someone. So those were the two things that were used. And it's crazy because we as humans we used to do this as a sport. So whole towns of people would show up to watch someone be tortured to death

as their execution. Like that was like the thing. And if people weren't tortured back in the day, they would be locked up into like where the horses are locked up and kids would be encouraged. Kids would be encouraged to go grab horse poop and smear it all over their face. So I mean, I don't know. So let's talk about the Romans. So Roman law, this was during the time when Roman law was like prevailed in Europe, this

was what all of Europe went by. They had three degrees of torture. Now it's going to be a little bit confusing. And it was confusing for me at first because like we like to think first degree murder, like that's the worst. But their first degree torture is not the worst. Their third degree torture is actually the worst. So first degree torture consists of whipping and beating someone, which means that there's

no permanent mutilation, like you're not going to have permanent scars. So you should be fine. Is how they considered it. And then you had the second degree, which was the crushing degree. I know it sounds like your soul, your spirit're spirits, it's just all gonna be crushed. But now, physically, you would be crushed. So they had these specific devices that they would use on you to crush your thumbs, to crush your toes, knees, feet,

teeth, and in really bad situations, your skull. They had something called the skull crusher, which looks like an orange juicer. So it has this metal cap, and you put it on top of your head. And the bottom is a metal bar and you have to put your head on top. And there's this giant screw that as they're interrogating you or torturing you, they would tighten the screw and the way that it works is that first all of your teeth would shatter.

And then your jaw would break, right? Because there's so much pressure in your head. And then eventually your eyes would pop out of your sockets. And then finally, bone fragments from your skull would penetrate and burst out of your head and then eventually your eyes would pop out of your sockets and then finally bone fragments from your skull would penetrate and burst out of your head. That was the process of crushing one's skull. They also had something called boots. It seems like every civilization had a fucking boot. I'm not talking Chelsea boots. I'm not talking cute little booties.

Okay, I'm talking torture boots So they had something called the Spanish boot and it was essentially these two iron plates that were studded with spikes And they had these knobs that would tighten it and it would squeeze your calf So hard that it would fracture and crush your fibula and your tibia, but they would just crush your leg essentially And you you don't want to know what's crazy back in the day, they believed. You know how like today, even if like a cop yells at someone, we're like, okay, first of all, I think that's coercion, okay. I'm like the first to be like, that's a false confession, okay. I just feel like there is too much mental stress and then like people have different things like anxiety and like, you know, fear of pleasing authority.

Like, everyone's got their own thing. So, I don't really like when confession is like the full force of the case, especially if they recant the confession, but either way, back in the day, they used to think that torture equals truth. They think that anything you say under torture is not because you're being tortured and you want the torture to be stopped, but it's because you're finally letting go of the truth. It's like a it's like a What do you call it a spiritual moment? It's just like what?

So they had these primitive versions of the Spanish boot So in the in Scotland the Scottish had this boot-shaped garment that was made out of raw hide So imagine like a giant Christmas stocking, but it's made out of raw hide, right? And what they would do is they would soak that garment in water and after they'd soak it in water, like think of wet, wet, leathery Christmas stocking. They would place your foot and your leg into it. They would tie it up with a bunch of cords and strings

and then they would roast your foot over a gentle fire. Now raw hide, it starts contracting when it gets really hot, right? So what would happen is that it wouldn't crush your bones, but most of the bones inside of that garment would dislocate slowly. And painful. What? Yeah, because it would contract. Oh my god.

So like the boot thing was like a very big thing. China and the British Isles in France, they were obsessed with a very different version of the boot, which was three wooden planks that were strategically used to apply pressure. And China, and specifically, they would make you kneel on painful iron chains that were kind of spiky while they would increase the pressure on your foot

while your foot is like getting crushed essentially until you confessed to the murder. There was also, you were right, I think you brought it this up recently, I didn't know that this was a form of torture in China until you brought it up. But that, allegedly, they would tie you on top of bamboo. The tips of living bamboo were cut into these sharp shapes like a spear and then you would be tied horizontally above the patch of bamboo and apparently bamboo grows like three feet a day sometimes and they would just pierce you and allegedly that the this was considered one of the most painful deaths ever inflicted

I don't know if there's any historical proof that this actually happened to victims But it is it has been proven that it is possible and that you will actually get speared through now in France They have these very specific boots that were planted pretty much onto the ground They were made out of iron and copper and there was a seat that you would sit on and you would be forced to put your foot into this boot that's made out of iron and they would slowly fill it up while they question you with boiling water or boiling oil or sometimes molten lead. Oh my god.

And then you're just gonna fill it up and your foot would just get destroyed. So that was second degree torture. What's the third degree you ask? Well this was considered savage mutilation. I am talking boiling oil in armor. So they would dress you up in like heavy steel armor and they would pour boiling oil down your armor. Like you'd be completely naked underneath and it would be made out of like steel and they would just pour the boiling oil. Now this was reserved for really bad fuckers because why oil was

really expensive back in the day. So they were like if we're gonna boil you with oil you better have done some crazy As shit like we're not gonna boil just anybody with oil. Yeah, they had standards back in the day It was also used in like historic battles like you would just sneak up on anatomy and just like pour boiling water Under them like oil in their armor. I don't know how you Very specific. Yeah, they're complicated. Yeah, these are not like yeah, it's like very Procedure heavy So what are the people who actually like back in the day way way back in the day?

Apparently it's been quoted that someone said oil easily runs down the whole body from head to foot under their entire armor Feeds upon the flesh like flame itself. Well, what a beautiful way to describe a savage torture. They also incorporated a lot of spikes, blade, controlled fire. The head crusher like we talked about was in the second degree, the Spanish donkey. You ever had about the Spanish donkey? Okay, I saw a picture of this and I am so traumatized. So the Spanish donkey, imagine like a pyramid, right? Like a triangle shape, but the point is tipping upwards, right? The point of the pyramid is facing the ceiling right now. And a lot of the times most of the people would die from infection because they'd be completely naked and their private parts would be touching it and people would bleed, sweat and all these things and they never cleaned it. Okay? I don't know why they never cleaned it. And they would slowly attach weights to your feet.

I don't know why they never cleaned it and they would slowly attach weights to your feet Oh my god, and this was a very preferred method because it was cheap It was time efficient. It was affordable way of torture because the Spanish donkey really only need one You don't even have to clean it. You know, there's no cleaning fee But also it was fine-tuned so you could slowly take away some weight slowly puts more weights on and it was very controlled form of torture. Now there was also something called the pear choke. It sounds so cute. It makes you want to crave a pear, doesn't it? Not anymore. So what they would do is they would insert this metal device into your either mouth, anus, or vagina. And it was almost always fatal because they would

take the screw and it would slowly open. Now it looks like a pear shape when it's closed, but it would slowly open as if like there's like four or five layers of the pair that's opening. Are you envisioning it like open like a hand? Like put your hand up and scrunch your fingers and then now open it, open all like a high five. They would open like that, but inside of your mouth or your vagina or your anus. And the ends of this pair came together in a point. So when they were open, they'd all be pointed ends. So it would rip through people's throats, people's anuses, and their cervixes.

I mean, it would just rip through them. There was also something called sawing in medieval Europe where they would suspend you from the air and saw you in half with the dry and saw. And it would take like five people to saw you in half. Typically you were alive because they didn't have like any sleep back in the day so you would just be like a life. But also like you're getting tortured. No one's gonna be like, hey do you want some a hennessey to ease the pain? No one's gonna do that. They're

just gonna saw you in half. Now what about the woman? What about the woman who do some fucked up shit? You know? What if there's a female god forbid that she was an unmarried mom? Oh Disgust don't you know what if she was a guys? This is sarcasm by the way What if what if she decided to do a self-induced abortion? What if this woman cheated on her husband? What do we do? What do we do guys? They had something called the breast ripper, where it was literally claws that were iron and they would heat it up and attach it to the breast

and then rip the woman's breast off, just because she was an adulter. Now, what about men? What about men when they cheat? I don't really know, but if you did try to assassinate the king, they would rip off your wibi. Yeah, it was something called crocodile shears.

And the best way that I can describe looking at it is this is probably the worst way. But have you ever seen a tube that you would insert your penis into? Like a flush light maybe? But this time it had spikes everywhere, So like they would make your we be hard Because they can do that and then they would stick it in there and it would tear it off Yeah, so I mean I guess there was kind of a double standard, but I don't really know you know I wasn't there back then so they also had something called dunking stools and this this one terrified me So this was specifically a woman's torture and it was made for women who in quotes talked too

much oh talked too much yeah I'm scared so what they would do is they would put her on this chair and it was it looks like a seasaw and they would drag this giant wooden chair this giant seasaw chair to a lake and she would sit on the chair and they would press the other end and they would drag this giant wooden chair, this giant sea salt chair to a lake, and she would sit on the chair, and they would press the other end,

and she would be dunked into the river of the lake, and she would be tied up to the chair. So they wouldn't essentially drown her, but it was known to be like a humiliation thing. A lot of women, like if they argued with their neighbors, they would be sent to the dunking chair. Like that one grouchy neighbor, fucking dunking chair, you go, yeah, weird, yeah, uh-huh.

And then, you know, I thought this one was a lie. I thought it was a lie. But there is evidence, historically speaking, that rats were used in torture. Like the rats being used in the pottery bowl, that is a very real thing. So back in the day, what they would do is they would stick these very very Wild rats stick them into a giant pottery bowl They would make you lay naked they would tie you up and a lot of the time sometimes Okay, but a lot of the times they would cut these slits into your stomach and

Then they would place that bowl bottom up to you so that the rats are trapped on top of your stomach Then they would place hot charcoal onto the top of the pottery bowl. So then what happens is that these rats get uncomfortably hot. I heard about this. Now, there's no way to escape is there except where? Ripple time. Interant testants.

Oh my god. So they said that they will literally nod into the bowels of the victims in order to escape and this would be a very long, long painful death. The rats would just eat you alive essentially. Yeah. Now, a common thing that was also used is it seems like every civilization had some sort of torture chair. Everyone had a different variation of a torture chair. The one thing that remained in common between all of these civilizations was that they all had spikes all over their back arms, seats, legrests, and footrests, right? Each torture chair ranged from 500 to 1500 spikes.

Now why would they use torture chairs? Stephanie, is it cheap to make? Like why did this civilization was like, you know what? A chair sounds good. Okay, it's because. It's because the time of death would be slow. That's why they chose torture chairs. So, it would take either a few hours up to a day, sometimes multiple days, but the tortured victim to actually die. The spikes were strategically placed, so that no vital organs were being touched. The wounds then would be actually closed by the spikes because you're strapped onto the chair,

which means that there would be delayed blood loss. So you would stay alive for a lengthy amount of time in this torture chair. And, you know, the brazen bull is a real thing. We talked about that briefly. Oh yeah, so back in the day, they made this bull. That was made out of like metal metal So metal gets hot, right? And they would put this bull over fire and the bull was big enough that it would have this door

And you would stick someone in and the bull was so big enough that you could essentially just like get roasted alive It was like a mini oven now I if I recall the story correctly they the government at the time like the king the royalty, right? They had requested someone make a torture device, and when the person who made this, who was regular civilian, a citizen, made it, showed it to the king, he was so disgusted, that this person could come up with such a disgusting idea of torment that he tested it by putting him into the brazen bowl. And then they started kind of evolving the bowl and eventually when it was at its peak, it's primetime. The piping inside of the bowl was made so that it would sound like an angry bowl

every time someone screamed while inside of it. They would also have smoke coming out one end so it looked like a bowl was snorting smoke because they were so angry and people would just watch, people get roasted to death, they'd be like look at that bowl I'm scared And then there's something called exposure torture. We're not even into the CIA yet, okay This is still considered like the olden days of torture So there's exposure exposure torture which is categorized into multiple different things a lot of civilians Civilizations where they had lots of cold winter times what they would do is they would force that victim to be naked outside

during winter time while it's snowing and they would pour cold water all over the victim multiple times until they would get frozen and they died slowly. Now what's the best part of this you ask? They would leave the victim out there the whole winter as a warning to any other civilian who wanted to you know Rise against the government. They said do you really want to try it? Look at this person in the eye. They would just leave that person in the snow all winter Now they also had boiling water and oil Combinations which they would cover you in boiling water and oil and they would stick you outside and tie you up right under the sun on a hot summer's day So you'd be burnt alive

There was also something called bait being buried alive You would be buried alive up until your neck and they would just let any animal insect or any other human who wanted to slowly torture you and kill you Just do it and this one was used frequently because it was very cost-efficient All they had to do was get someone to dig a hole. Yeah. Yeah. The creativity. The creativity. And now this is where my dumbass was like, you know what? I'm so glad that I was born in... I'm not gonna tell you when I was born because a bit's is old. I'm so glad that I wasn't born during these times because listen, if I'm getting dunked just because I talk too much, uh, uh, it's not for me. It's not for me, it's not the life I want.

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Go to functionabuty.com slash rotten, and let them know that you heard about it from our show because that's the best way to support us and get 20% off of your haircare order. That's functionabutie.com slash ratter. We're like no the government's not torching people. That was just back in the day. The Roman era, you know, countries that I'm not a citizen to maybe back in the day, the Roman era, you know, countries that I'm not a citizen to, maybe back in the day they all tortured, they all did. Let's talk about more modern day torture, shall we? And get on the FBI watch list. So the CIA made something called enhanced interrogation

tactics, which sounds fancy, sounds psychological, sounds like a bunch of psychiatrists that there and was like, you know, you should just like ask them about their feelings But that's not what happened. It just made torture a super secret because a lot of these international committees were now banning the use of torture Whether it was through private civilians or through government agencies So they were like, you know what? We just got to be super secrets and they would use things like things that wouldn't leave marks Because everything we talked about like the Romans crushing your skull like how are you gonna walk around and say oh no, we as a government did not shatter all of his teeth even though they are shattered. We don't know how that happened. What? Like you can't do that. So they started doing

things that would leave no physical mark on them such as electric shock therapy and not really therapy but electric shock torture, his fixation, they would choke you until you were unconscious and then do it again and then do it again. And then they would make you either super hot, they would keep you super cold, they would do something called noise sleep deprivation, which I think is so freaking scary, they would play the crazy frequencies, high pitched, low pitched noises that are scientifically proven to fuck with your cognitive ability on headphones that were literally tied to your head. Like you can't escape it.

This is happening today. Well, it was happening like 10 years ago, probably still happening today. This was the biggest controversy about Guantanamo Bay. I can never say that prison correctly where they would house the worst terrorist criminals alive and it just was a shit show because a lot of the times you know the government thought that Americans would be okay with it because you're talking about terrorists. So America was like we just don't need to tell the Americans let's just do it. But if it ever gets out they'll understand and then it got out and we're like we don't

under we know we don't we don't we don't do that. We don't do that. I thought we don't do that. We don't do that. We don't do that. I thought we don't do that here. And so they would also chain people in a very strategic position on the cold surface. It was typically on their stomach. Their head would be raised a certain bit. Their arms would be chained in a strategic manner

where they could not fall asleep. Like they had experimented with government agencies to prove that this position is nearly impossible to fall asleep, so they would sleep to pride people. They would also play incredibly loud music and the most common torture tactic of developed and undeveloped countries that governments do, not just people, it's just, you're good old beating,

old-fashioned beatings. Yeah, just like don't beat them too hard, that it's like a permanent scar or that they die, but a good old beating is the most popular technique. There's also what the CIA called stress positions, and it usually consists of people sitting up against a wall, and a stress position means that they would tie their fingers to the wall, like their hands, so that they would be on their tippy toes, but their backs would be up against the wall, but it wouldn't so that they would be on their tippy toes, but their backs would be up against the wall, but it wouldn't be like one of those exercise sitting positions.

Stress positions are forced to make you put all of your body weight onto like one or two very small muscle groups that are weak, and it is really painful, really painful. It's like a different level of pain, and guess what? It leaves no mark. So if all of these, you know, alleged or known criminals go to whoever they go to like these United Nations, right? And they're like, hey, I was tortured in America. There's literally no proof and what credibility does a known or suspected criminal really have So the United States government would just be like, we don't remember doing any of that. I don't know what's a stress position, is that like a yoga thing? And

there would also be things like forced nudity, forced standing for long periods of time. They would put you in a cell that was so small, you couldn't even crouch, you just be forced to stand. They also used spray painted goggles and hoods so that you couldn't see any brightness for like days, sometimes months at a time. And you would literally go insane. There was something called dark confinement, which was a box that let it know sunlight, no artificial light, absolutely nothing. And then they also had in guantanamo bay, I always pronounce it wrong, something called the dog box. Now this dog box was a tiny little box that you would be forced into, usually completely naked, and it was too small to sit up and it was too small to curl up in a ball. And what that would force you to do is they said it is the most insane muscle contractions

that you will unconsciously scream out in pain. So what do you do standing? No, you're like kind of crouched, but you're not even crouched. Oh, you can like kind of crouched, but you're not even crouched. Oh, you can stand up You can't even sit up on your knees. You can't even lay down and curl up in a ball It is so small and they force you in in such a way that you can't move And then that causes you to have muscle contractions that they said that you just scream out and pain and you don't even know What's going on? Like you're not even like essentially no one would say that that's like the worst thing

ever, right? Yeah. Like if I told you, hey, I'm gonna burn you with this cigarette or you're gonna be in this box, you'd be like, give me the fucking box, right? It's so people were just like, what? They would also expose you to extreme temperatures, but they would also culturally and sexually humiliate you. They did so much sleep deprivation. The CIA allegedly, allegedly,

allegedly, the CIA allegedly is the number one fan of sleep deprivation. Like that's like their go-to apparently from what I can tell online, online from the research that was put out there and not from my own brain. C-I-A. Discating love you guys. I don't know who I'm more scared of. The C-I-A FBI or the fucking IRS, I don't know. They're like the biggest Santa sleep deprivation and sleep deprivation is so bad. So there's like this is how bad it gets. There's a disease called fatal familial insomnia, which is a neurogenerative disease. And it pretty much means that you have the complete inability to pass stage one of sleep.

And it leads to panic attacks, paranoia, phobias, hallucinous hallucinations, rapid weight loss, dementia, and if you're wondering, like, if that list doesn't sound already bad, if you are one of the rare people that it's diagnosed with fatal familial insomnia, because it comes about like in your 20s or 30s. It's not something you're like it immediately shows when you're born most of the time, right?

You will die within 77 to 36 months. We'll talk about someone like that, right? Yeah, that is so important. Then if you say he would give everything in his life just be able to fall asleep for like two seconds. Yeah, for like a couple minutes. And then you start having like the mental effects of not getting sleep, like it's so, so bad.

And you just, and the worst is they said that you, you watch someone you love or yourself become not even you anymore by the time you die from it. Because that's how important sleep is to who you are. Now, another issue with psychological torture. So Guantan or Pei, they had a lot of physical torture, but it seems like they really focused on psychological torture and sleep deprivation is categorized as psychological torture. In China, they do something called Chinese water torture that is not used anymore, but what they would do is they would tie you

up to a chair or a lot of the times it would look like a medical table, right? They tie you up, they restrain you by your arms, your legs, your feet, and they would have this bucket of water that was timed to release water, cold water, slowly dripping onto your scalp forehead and your face, right? Now it's crazy because that's not torture, like you're not drowning, you're not getting water boarded, it's literally a drop of water and then it just slips off your face, right? Um, but apparently it drives you crazy. Yeah, it can't sleep at all. Yeah, and they even fine-tuned it that random droppings can lead to a faster psychotic break. Yeah.

They said a lot of the times people will have a psychotic break within about 20 hours and you're talking about like mentally strong people, like people like that were trained not to be mentally broken. Yeah. Like I'm not to be mentally broken. Like I'm not talking to Stephanie Sue. It's like they're saying that it's like you're just constantly anticipating it or something. Like your brain is always waiting for that drop. Would you rather that or something called white torture?

So this is complete sensory deprivation and isolation. I feel like so many YouTubers have tried stuff like this. I think Mr. Beast did it, but it's actually more intense than what his video was, I believe, because what you're like the whole room. So it's essentially a white room, right? There's neon tubes that are positioned above that are strategically placed

so that no matter where you are in this white room, none of your shadow will ever show. So they want it completely white. There is absolutely no color. All the surfaces are smooth, so you cannot focus on texture either. So all the surfaces have to be the same consistently. See, they're all smooth. The guards that will walk around your white padded room where padded shoes, so that you can't

hear anything. And they also only serve you white food such as unseasoned rice. And that's it. You just like they said that you will break. It's so much work and it looks like a perfect photo studio. Yeah, it's kind of insane. And then not to be confused with medical torture. So these are all tortures of confessions. And what they would call, I believe, I think, times of stress and distress or something like that. So essentially what America was trying to say to Americans

was like, hey, we only did this because we were expecting something bad to happen to Americans very soon. So we needed to stop it before it happened, right? But there's something that was very famous and still probably relevant in a prevalent in a lot of different governments is something called medical torture. A lot of people can get it confused with human experiments, but a lot of the times it is just categorized as medical torture because it is torture, right? I feel like human experiments make it sound more like oo sci-fi movie like what's going on right but it's just straight up medical torture and the US has a pretty lengthy history of medical torture too so one of the most popular ones was something

called project artichoke and the whole purpose of project artichoke was this was run by the CIA to control someone through interrogation tactics. And it was actually quoted that their aim, their goal, was to control someone to the point that he will do our bidding against his will and even against fundamental laws of nature, such as self preservation. How did they do that? Forced morphine addiction,

so they would force people to get addicted to drugs, and then subsequently, they're forced withdrawal from those drugs. They would also use chemicals to force amnesia for them to get forget things. They experimented a lot with LSD, heroin, weed, cocaine, something called PCP. They actually even at one point dozed 7,000 US soldiers with LSD without their knowledge or their consent. The soldiers had no idea. They were just trying to defend their beautiful country and then they were just like fucking stick them with LSD. And over a thousand of those 7,000 had long-term illnesses, had psychotic breaks, and many of them

tried to commit suicide later on, because they really fucked with them. Then they had something called MK-Ultra and all of their sub-projects. We've talked about this before, such as Operation Midnight Climax. Like, can you imagine working for a government agency and be like, what are we going to name this? What are we going to name this crazy super secret experiment? Operation Midnight Climax.

No one's going to raise an eyebrow. If I'm on the phone at the grocery store and I'm like, hey, how's Operation Midnight Climax going? No one's going to listen with the heck? And so this was considered their mind control program So they did extensive research into sexual blackmail surveillance technology and mind altering drugs So now their main goal in this was to quote D pattern someone So the way that they thought they could D pattern someone was erasing someone's entire mind and memories and

that they thought they could depot in someone was erasing someone's entire mind and memories and pushing them to the mental level of an infant again. A human, a 30 year old, they're going to try to fuck them up so hard that they lose all their memories, their entire, just everything, and they become an infant again. That's when they do the next step. Quot-on-quot-rebuild, personality into the manner of choosing that benefits the CIA. I'm so scared of that. I'm so scared. Yeah, so the debattering process sometimes included being in a drug-induced coma for 88 days. In some situations, 88 days, a drug-induced coma, they would do high-voltage shocks about 360 times a person.

So you would undergo 360 separate times of high-voltage shocks. They would also do something called blackout football helmets. So they would blackout a football helmet and they would embed speakers into the football helmet. And for 16 to 20 hours a day on loop, they would listen to one phrase that was pre-recorded that they wanted to embed into that person's mind. In one specific case, a victim was forced to listen to the same clip on loop 24 hours a day for 101 days straight. What was the phrase? I don't know. Wow. Yeah. But it was whatever they wanted you to be.

They were like, I'm going to play this until it's just like part of their identity and that's all they know now. Children were also used for this whole MKL cooperation and many of them were sexually abused. And in one case, one of the children was filmed numerous times doing sexual acts with high ranking federal government officials. Why you ask? Why? Because this was blackmailing.

The CIA officials working on this case decided to blackmail the federal government officials to secure Additional funding for MKL trial. They were like you can't stop funding this project But also like I don't know which part to be scared of the fact that the people working on this were like yeah Let's blackmail them or the fact that they used a literal child to do this or the fact that the federal government official was like Yeah, let me do sex acts with a literal child I don't know which part is more alarming. Yeah, so the crazy thing is, when all of MK Ultra was released, a lot of people didn't categorize it as medical torture because people in the press mainly were using the words

mind control and brainwashing. And a lot of people close to MK Ultra later, or like people who had, you know, family members who were victims, they would come out later and say, you know, it's just really fucked up because it almost implied that the US government was full of a bunch of like crazy sci-fi, like loony tunes, when in reality,

they were just torturing people. Like, call it what it is. Like just because we're a developed country doesn't mean it's like, oh, they're so like advanced. Like look at their sci-fi stuff. It no it's torture there's actually a whole Wikipedia on the times that the US government made official statements on how much a specific torture was horrendous and then when they got exposed for doing the same thing and I was like oh my, this seems illegal to look at. So, obviously, they also tortured a lot of prisoners.

That was their main thing. There's actually a really well written thing called cheaper than chimpanzees. I think it's what it's called. And it's referring to how prisoners are cheaper than getting chimpanzees for medical torture. Geez. And it accounts all of the times they werees for medical torture. Geez. And it accounts all of the times they were used for medical torture.

They were actually water-borted on, not in Guantanamo Bay, but regular prisoners in the United States who probably didn't do that much intense stuff. They were experimented on with water-bording. They tried different types of water, like saline water. They were like, let's try salt water next. Let's try this water next. Like really what?

And then they also did sleep deprivation experiments on prisoners in 48, 96, and 180 increments, 180 hours of no sleep. Are you kidding? And in 2010, you're like, okay, well Stephanie, calm down, stop talking about the past. It's time to move on, right? In 2010, a weapons manufacturer

announced their partnership with a California jail that they were using inmates to test something that they call the active denial system. What is that? What does that sound, sounds not bad, right? It fires an invisible heat beam that's capable of causing unbearable pain. They tested it on inmates apparently, I think, is what they said. And eventually, the Pentagon rejected using it in Iraq because they said, and I quote, it may be used as an instrument to torture. Also, how do weapons manufacturers work? Like, I don't understand. There's just a manufacturer out there that's just like, how do we create weapons? I mean, stuff like this blows't understand. Like there's just like a manufacturer out there that's just like how do we create weapons. I mean, like stuff like this blows my mind.

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very gentle, easily influenced. People really said that she was really high-spirited and well-mannered. And when I said well-mannered, I mean when I was reading that I was like, oh, it's probably nice, right? But you're gonna be shocked at how well-mannered. And when I saw well-mannered, I mean, when I was reading that, I was like, oh, it's probably nice, right? But you're gonna be shocked at how well-mannered she is. I mean, think about someone who's on the brink of death and is thinking people for saving her. Like what? She all she really wanted in life was to be loved.

This is just gonna be so sad. So her biological dad had walked out on her when she was a baby. She had an older sister by the name of Michelle and her mom Elizabeth was Remaring to a guy by the name of John now. I feel like Suzanne was just kind of Left in the cracks like nobody really paid a lot of attention to her So her older sister was going off like dating boys and like living her own life

her mom was just Kind of very focused on her romantic relationships that she didn't necessarily show a lot of affection towards her kids. So this is a little different from Kellyanne Bates where I do feel like I could put a little bit of blame on her parents a bit, right? Now, her mom was never there. She was just emotionally and physically preoccupied.

And eventually, she would start bouncing around from different homes. So Suzanne, by the time she was 16, she was bouncing around from her step-dads house, who now divorced her mom. So then sometimes she would go to her mom's house. Sometimes she'd stay at like family friend's house, and a lot of the times she would stay with like authorities, like literally in foster homes. Like it was getting that bad where CPS was like, hey, we should probably take you under our care for a brief amount of time. She'd start skipping school around this time, and it seems like Suzanne

wasn't skipping school necessarily because she's like a party girl She's like wild, you know, but it seems like it was really how to do with the fact that she just had a lot going on And it was reflecting in her school life Maybe it was also like her trying to get some sort of attention from her parents like hey I'm like doing this disruptive behavior. So can you please like you know show some affection But it actually ended up backfiring because her mom stopped letting her stay with her because she was skipping school doing this disruptive behavior, so can you please show some affection? But it actually ended up backfiring because her mom stopped letting her stay with her because she was skipping school.

So what the heck, right? So that's when she starts staying with a woman by the name of Jean Powell. So Jean Powell was 26 at the time. Now mind you, Susanna is 16, right? And Jean, she had three kids of her own. She was living in like, kind of what people called, and I quote, like a squallor home, like a, like a, not a great place. I mean, she was dealing drugs out of her own. She was living in like, kind of what people called and I quote, like a squalor home, like a, like a, not a great place. I mean, she was dealing drugs out of that house.

This was also a midpoint in stolen cars. So people would steal cars, bring it to Jeanne's house. She would flip it and then steal it to, give it to the new owners. So she just was doing a lot of illegal activity and she had three kids of her own. She had actually known Suzanne since Suzanne was 10 years old. So they're like an old family friend. So Suzanne, I mean, she had been kicked out of her mom's house, her stepdad. I mean, yeah, she feels some sort of connection

with him, but like, she still doesn't feel like she has the right to just be like, I'm fucking stay in here, dude, you know? And he just didn't want her there all the time either. So she just started spending time at Jean's house and nowhere to go. Now, briefly, her older sister Michelle had lived with Jean and she had moved out of Jean's house. And Michelle told Suzanne, like, don't go there. Like, it's the house of evil. And I don't like the new evil people that Jean is hanging around. But what choice did Suzanne have? And the house was really getting bad. So people were just like openly having sex in this house, like in front of all of their kids. And most of Jean's kids were younger than Suzanne, so it was just not a good environment.

They had industrial kitchen weighing skills, like you know the ones that you see, like, I don't know your grocery store. They would have like those giant industrial kitchen weighing skills, and they would just wait drugs on it So it was a lot of drugs It wasn't even like like why do you need that? Yeah, but they would just have those skills Drugs would just be like out in the kitchen all the time now who are these evil friends that Jean is hanging out with There was a man by the name of Glenn Powell now Glenn Powell And he can tell by his last name was the ex-husband of Jean Powell

But he lived nearby and it seemed like they were on family terms so he would regularly visit. And he would also bring his younger brother a lot, which his name was Clifford Hayes. And Clifford is gonna be a pivotal part of this story as well. There was also a man by the name of Jeffrey. So we've got Jean, Jean's ex-husband Glenn, and his little brother Clifford.

Now Jeffrey is a drug purchaser from Jean, but he also started dating Jean. So now Jeffrey's Jean's new boyfriend. And then in comes Bernie McNeely. So Bernie is her full name is Bernadette, but they call her Bernie. And she lived a few doors down. She had just moved in and she also has three kids of her own.

So she became fast friends with Jean and they're like, oh, we're single moms, we got three kids, we're like living in the same complex together, right? And so she pretty much like practically just like lives out of Jean's house. And she was dating a 16 year old, she's in her late 20s, but she's dating a 16 year old by the name of Anthony Dutson. And this Anthony was also having sex with Jean, and also sometimes having sex with Suzanne. So this 16 year old was just like really doing a lot, okay? And I don't, it seems like all of them knew it too. So it doesn't seem like, you know, this was all behind Bernie's back. It seemed like it was openly done.

And it seemed like Bernie was okay with it. Now, all of these people were evil, and they will have a hand in Suzanne's murder. So Suzanne ends up officially moving in, and she started sharing a bed with Jean in just like the downstairs dining room because Jean would quote say, all the rooms are taken by fucking kids, you know, because there would be so many kids upstairs.

Now the stepdad would later say that he had a strange feeling about the house, and he also called it the house of evil, but I don't know why he didn't do anything about it. Like that was just like the extent he was just feeling about the house and he also called it the house of evil, but I don't know why he didn't do anything about it. That was just like the extent he was just concerned about the house. Now, Jean and Bernie, the two female adults, right? They frequently, frequently bullied Suzanne. They just would make fun of her, they would punch her around and stuff, and Suzanne didn't seem scared of them, but it seemed like she just stuck around because she wanted to please them. She she would do anything for them.

And her sister was quoted with saying she pampered their every whim. It seemed like she wasn't scared but just wanted their love, right? I mean, she had known jeans and she was tense, so this is a family friend. So one day, Jean beats Suzanne really, really badly to the point where Suzanne walks out of Jean's house and walked all the way in the middle of the night Walked all the way to her mom's house knocked on her door and begged her mom to stay the night and said listen Jean just beat me up like please can I just stay one night like I'm not gonna move in with you Like please and her mom said you're not even allowed in because my new boyfriend wouldn't like that

and She sent Suzanne away and Suzanne walked back to Jeanne's house and she kept putting up with the abuse. There was a part of it that felt like she had nowhere else to go, but also to think about it. Like she had essentially dropped out of school. Her family doesn't really, you know, her parents don't really talk to her and they don't really show her affection. This really was the only human companionship she was getting. And people really underestimate most people are proven to want even negative human companionship versus no human interaction. We'd prefer to have negative interaction than none, which is insane. Every introvert is like, uh, I beg to differ.

I am. I have no interaction and I love it. So she goes back to Jean's house and this is when it gets from like bad to worse. So December of 1992 comes around and a series of accusations were just flung at Suzanne and it's so petty. This is probably the pettiest murder motive I've ever seen in my entire life. The first accusation was that Suzanne stole a pink duffel coat that belonged to one of the two older girls. And they said, why'd you take our pink duffel coat?

And Suzanne's like, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't have a pink duffel coat. You can look through all of my stuff. I don't have any stuff at my mom's or my step-dad's house. Why would I take your pink duffel coat? And they're like, we don't believe you. Now the next accusation was that Suzanne infected everyone in the house with pubic lice. How would she do that?

Well, Suzanne was having sex with Anthony. Anthony and Wes having sex with Jean and Bernadette and Jean was having sex with Jeffrey. Quite possibly her ex-husband, so like everyone ended up with pubic lice and we all started with Anthony. Now Anthony, he said, no, it was Suzanne who gave it to me and everyone just believed him. They were like, you're right, that's patient zero. There's no other way to prove it

other than just Anthony, the 16 year old who said this. Now Anthony, mind you, was having sex with a lot of people outside of this house as well. So it really could have been anyone, but they were like, no Suzanne, you did it. So they start confronting her and it starts getting really scary So Suzanne's like oh no, thank you. So she runs back to her dad's her step-dots house, right?

And he let her in thank God and at this point a couple days pass when December 7th 1992 the gang just like shows up at the Stubbed at house and they're like hey, Suzanne You know that guy that you've been really into? Yeah, the one that stopped us via our house sometimes, right? You like him, right? You let's say a random guy. There was like a guy that she was kind of into at the time. And they're like, well, he just told us that he likes you back. And he wants to kind of like go on a date with you.

And because they knew, and everyone knew, Suzanne, like all she wanted was to be loved. She was like, really? And she walked out of the house and walked back with them. But instead of taking her to her date, they took her back to the house of evil. Now this is where the torture begins. All of them held her down while they shaved her head and her eyebrows and her whole pubic area. They completely made her bald.

They put a plastic bag over her head, so like kind of sensory deprivation and started beating her. While she had this bag over her head, they also started laughing and shouting while they took turns hitting her with belt buckles. These like large wooden sticks, they started just like hitting her all over the head. They started hitting her on her body to the point with like the beating was so bad And I feel like it sounds so weak like a wooden stick, right? No, the beating was so bad That it broke one of her arms and for the rest of the week that she was being held prisoner

It was just it was unusable. It was like limp on her side She couldn't even pick up her arm really so it was bad and her screams were really really loud So at one point they tried to stick her in like a cupboard and that didn't work and so finally they were like, hey let's take her to Bernadette's house because Bernie had essentially just like abandoned her house and moved in with Jean right and no one was living there at the time so they're like, let's take her to Bernadette's old house. They bring her there and their whole thing was like they tell the cops later because they don't want the kids to hear the screens of torture and violence. It's like what why are you doing that in the first

place right? The abandoned house would prove to be a lot more fatal for Suzanne. So they tied her up in shackles like spread eagle on like a mattress like a dirty mattress on the ground. They stuffed dirty socks in her mouth to muffle her screams and this reminds me so much of the CIA. They would start each torture session by saying, Chucky's coming to play. Do you know who Chucky is? The scary doll, the red hair doll, the horror movie. They would say Chucky's coming to play and it got so bad that even just saying those words would make Suzanne cry and scream and agony because she knew what was about to come. Now you're probably thinking why is that so important?

It's because most of the time when she wasn't being tortured they taped headphones on her head and played at the loudest volume. I'm checkie, wanna play? Why are they doing that? They thought it was just funny. I don't know, the psychologists later said that there was nothing wrong with them. They couldn't diagnose some of anything, that they just, they, they seem ordinary. So they started burning her all over the face with cigarettes and all over her body. They injected

her with, um, and vitamins, which are just drugs, right? They ended up pulling out her front teeth with pliers. Um, so they pulled out two with pliers and then another one snapped in half, which doctors kind of assume was probably much more painful because it exposes the sensitive nerves that are inside of your teeth. So that was probably much more intense, right? Oh my God. Those kind of pain is, yeah. Unbearable. Yeah. And then, so they would just tie up in that bed. So obviously, she wasn't allowed to go use the restroom, so she would just tie her up in that bed. So obviously she wasn't allowed to go use the restroom so she would just pee and poo when

she needed to because it's not like she wanted to but it's just a natural process that your body is like, I'm sorry what you think, you know, I'm gonna fucking pee right now. So she would be kind of filled with her own, you know, excrement and eventually the stench of that was really bad, you know, she's covered in poop. And instead of just like showering her or letting her use the restroom, or even like forcing her to clean it up, like get a towel, get a rag, right?

They were like, let's fill the bathtub with concentrated disinfectant. Oh, like I said, she had burns all over her body. She had beading, wounds that were open and they threw her in the bathtub. And they were like, you know what, that's not enough, the smell is so bad. So imagine a bathtub filled with bleach and they grabbed like a yard brush like a, you know, like a, the like a really rough yard

brush. I'm not talking like a body brush or like a lufa. I'm talking a yard brush and they brushed her until her skin started falling off. There were multiple opportunities for kind of maybe a rescue, so there was a guy in the name of David Hill. He was 18 years old, and he would come to the house to do, I don't know, various activities, right? Now, one time he was asked to come into the house and just like sit in for the gang

because they were going out to like run some errands, like get some food, right? And that's when David hears 16 year old Anthony yell, shut up, you slag in the back room. So he's like, oh, who the fuck is he talking to? So then David's like, wait, who are you talking to? Like, he just went back there to see what's going on. Like, is someone fighting? And they're like, you want to see something fun? And they take David to see Suzanne. There was a cloth over her face. She had a bit of dried blood

on her lip. She had no hair. And like, David, the rest of the day, like, here's the gang talking about how they're gonna do some like dentistry work again, and like pull out her teeth again, and stuff like that, and he just kind of like ignores it. At one point, David is left alone in the house with Suzanne, and she begged him to untie her, and he said he couldn't help her. He asked her what her name was, She said, my name is Suzanne. And David's like, listen, I can't help you because I'm like too afraid of them.

And just left. Didn't go to the police. Didn't tell his family like nothing. He said he was too shocked to do anything. The gang, Jeffrey and Anthony went up to meet with Michelle. Is that, is he liable for anything later? She wasn't held liable later from to my knowledge. Yeah. Is it just because there's just too many people?

Yeah too many people and also there probably is some sort of like threatening activity going on. Yeah, so Jeffrey and Anthony later go up to meet with Michelle's fiance Michelle is Suzanne's older sister and she was engaged to a man by the name of Paul Barlow now Paul Paul Barlow knew these people because they all knew the cat per family and he had broken his car so they're like, hey why don't you guys help me fix my car and they help him fix his car. All the while Susanne is being held captive and tortured inside of their house. Like they just have the nerve, like they don't have any sort of moral code or anything and then that's when it gets crazy. So Michelle tells the whole gang that her stepdad is going to report Suzanne missing and going to fill out like the official police report now. And Michelle knows what's going on. No. Michelle is just like where the fuck is my sister and everyone's like we don't know what you're talking about.

So she's like well my stepdad's going to go file a report now and I'm going to tell them that she was at this house. So that's when they're like, oh no, so they panic and they decide to move Suzanne out of the abandoned house. So December 14th, 1992, a week after she was held prisoner, they forced her into the trunk of a stolen car and they drove to like this remote wooded area near Stockport. They rolled her down a hill, like an in-bankment. They just like rolled her down and she suffered even more gashes on branches and thorns on her already sensitive skin and then they proceeded to pour gasoline all over her. They lit her on fire and they said she just went up and flame so much that they thought that she would die instantly. so they all just like left and

the way that they left was all of them started laughing and singing burn baby burn yeah now Suzanne she's a mother-working survivor like I don't I don't even know dude she survived she dragged herself up the embankment and walked a quarter mile on the road until a man on his way to work with his two colleagues. So the man's name is Barry and he was with his two colleagues. He was driving down the road to go to work and he sees a woman walking and she puts her in the car. They drive to the nearby house so that they can get the ambulance there because I mean the hospital drive would have been too far without you know they just they need an ambulance ASAP. And the whole time he said that Suzanne kept repeatedly thanking him.

Like, thank you so much for saving me. And they're just like, it's okay. Like, we're just, why, you know, and she just said over there in the field, they burnt me and poured gasoline on me. So they're inside of this like random stranger's house that was nearby. And it was like an older couple and they were just shook, right? So they're waiting for this like random stranger's house that was nearby and it was like an older couple and they were just shook Right, so they're waiting for the ambulance to arrive. They described her hands to look like ash Her legs looked like raw meat that you would see in like a grocery store

Her feet were badly charred and they just were so prized and confused How polite she was being like she was constantly thinking everyone She's like thank you guys so much like thank you for letting me be here right now. Like, thank you for letting me stay right now. She drinks six glasses of water while waiting for the ambulance, but she couldn't hold the water because her hands were so burnt that they had to help feed her. They said that she looked and I quote, like a victim of an attack in the Vietnam war. So I don't know if maybe one of them was like a veteran, but it was bad. It was so bad. One of them instinctively, the woman in the house,

she instinctively tried to put her arm around her because she just felt so bad, and Suzanne just couldn't make contact with anything. Like it was so painful. And the whole time she just kept saying thank you. So the ambulance comes and she's taken to the hospital and she gave the names of the six attackers She also gave genes address and then she fell into a coma It was really bad. She had burns over 80% of her body. She had severe internal damage There was really little that the hospital could do to help ease her pain

I mean her skin was pretty much hanging off her body at the time. Like, people said that it almost looked like a robe, right? There was a partial collapse in one of her lungs. It just was so bad. The burns were so bad that nobody could even recognize her. So she had to be IDed by a partial fingerprint on one of her thumbs, which was the only thumb and only part of her hand that wasn't severely burned. The rest of her fingers, they couldn't get a fingerprint because it was so burnt. Now, she was in the Wittington hospital and four days later, she never regained consciousness from her coma and she died. Now, during this four days that she was in the coma, the police had

already arrested the perpetrators. So the police searched the evil house and they said it was a complete and notermess. Like, there was trash everywhere. They didn't have a sofa in their living room, which like nobody's judging that, but they had instead of a sofa, stolen car seats lined up like a sofa. So there's like, um, okay, like stolen car seats, okay. Not baby car seats, but like you get it from like a car. And they found a plethora of evidence. They found Suzanne's shaved hair in the trash bin in the restroom. They found a pair of bloody pliers. They found Suzanne's teeth that were just being kept like some like trophy and the gang was like, oh we didn't do any of that. What are you talking about Suzanne's dead? We had no idea. Then 16 year old Anthony, he was encouraged by his dad to tell the truth and it seems like

I don't know if his dad did it out of compassion or it's hey tell the truth so you could blame it on the others because everyone just started blaming everybody else. You know they were just like I didn't do it they did it. So here's Gene's stupid ass story. So Gene said I was so numb you know I was so scared. I was so scared that they would all turn on me too. I sat in the car while everyone else sat Susanna Blaze. Oh wait you know that I locked her in the car while everyone else set Susanna Blaze. Oh, wait, you know that I locked her in the cupboard?

Well, okay, I only locked her in the cupboard for her own safety so that the gang wouldn't find her. I did it for her. I loved her like a sister, and I- I just can't even stand violence. I hate violence. And the police are like, for you. Here is Bernadette's story. She said that she held the canister of gasoline at one point, but at the last minute, her 16-year-old boyfriend, Anthony, grabbed it from her hand and poured it all over Suzanne. So she's putting the blame on Anthony.

Um, wait, what? Everyone said, I, Bernie, injected her with drugs. The only reason I injected Suzanne with endphetamines is because everyone wanted to inject her with heroin, which is so much worse than endphetamines. So I protected her. I did it for her, for Suzanne. Okay, that's a confession right there. Yeah, so obviously all six were charged with kidnapping and attempted murder and then

following Suzanne's death in the hospital, they were charged with kidnapping and murder. The trial would last 22 days, all six pled not guilty, and the testimonies were fucking wild. They were just putting blame on each other. Like I said, these were their stories. I locked her in a cupboard for her own safety. What? November 24th Clifford, which is Jean's ex-husband, younger brother, he was cleared of the murder

by the judge. So he was still charged with other things, but brother. He was cleared of the murder by the judge. So he was still charged with other things, but he was acquitted of the actual murder. Psychological reports said that all individuals were considered to be sane, and they were not diagnosed with any personality disorders at that time. I don't know if they further will. Now, the jury deliberated for nine hours, 52 minutes,

and here came their set and sings. Bernie and Jean and Glen. So Jean and her ex-husband plus Bernadette, Bernie, were given convicted of murder, life imprisonment with a minimum of 25 years, conspiracy to cause grievous bodily harm, 20 years false imprisonment, 20 years. Jeffrey, which is Jean's boyfriend,

he was acquitted of murder and conspiracy to cause bodily harm, but he was convicted of false imprisonment and sentenced 12 years. Anthony, the 16 year old, was convicted of murder, and his sentence was because he was a minor, detained indefinitely with a minimum of 18 years, and Clifford, he was convicted of false imprisonment and conspiracy to cause bodily harm 15 years, but he was acquitted of murder. Now they all started appealing, like crazy. So Jeffrey Sutton's was reduced from 12 to 9 years, and the knees was 18 to 16 years

minimum, Bernie's was reduced by a year, and Jeanne's was reduced by 2 years because she allegedly showed remorse and helped prevent a jelliscape. What? There was a lot of controversy. So Bernadette, she moved in to a prison in the same wing as you guessed it. Rosemary West and Myra Hindley. That's too serial killer's thinking that we talked about. And here's the word in the streets. Well, I guess in the prison ills because they are not on the streets because they are roasted. I'm kidding. Some of them are out, so I should really be careful.

Apparently she dated Mira Hinley briefly before Mira and Rosemary West dated. I don't know what the fuck's happening. I don't know. I don't know if these are all the rumours or like, if people like prison romance, like is this like some TLC show that should be happening? I don't know if these are all the rumors or like if people like prison romance like is this like some TLC show that should be happening I don't know okay, but apparently they dated and then in 1996 Bernadette's cell was going through like a routine check and that's when prison guards uncovered letters that she was having an Affair with like the prison warden like the prison like the like the boss of the prison Mike Martin who was married Yeah, no, so he resigned from his position before he could be fired

Yeah, so Jeffrey and Clifford were released in 2001 Bernie was released in December of 2014 and I believe the rest of them are already released if not soon being released And it was just absolute outrage There was a lot of outrage because, well, there was a lot of things. So first, people said this was superficial growth of the city. So they were saying, how can the government have all of these

just new buildings, new cafes, new restaurants, and do nothing about the homelessness and do nothing to help people. They're not helping these families that need the help. And they said that the locals had a running joke that you could sip cappuccino while watching bodies slope by in the local rivers. Because it's like, the government doesn't do anything to provide any welfare. There was also the question of where the fork was, CPS, you're talking about single moms

with three kids with no jobs really other than dealing drugs, which you can't, you know, file on your tax reports. With teenage boy like what's going on like you didn't do any wellness checks in the house there was also a really weird moral panic over Chuckie they were like what does this movie need to be banned yeah so it was like brought up in the testimonies along with another movie a horror slasher film called Child's Play 3, Luku Stalkin. And so there was like this press panic over like, oh my god, should movies really be allowed? Are these inspiring killers?

People think again, it's just a scapegoat for violence. It always is, people always blame video games and stuff. I firmly believe that's not what it is at all. And so it was a shitcho. What did the mom say? Step there, mom. Just regrets, much regrets. I mean, I'm sure that they said something that was probably more emotional than that, but I am very upset with the mom. So that is the story of Kellyanne Bates and Suzanne Kapper and a little history on torture. I mean, I don't know. It seems weird that we look at old and day torture

and we're like, gosh, how savage is that? And then I wonder if in like a hundred years people look back at our interrogation tactics and be like, how savage is that? Yes. I feel like it's just a running pattern. So let me know in the comments. There's no comments you idiot. Let me know what your thoughts on this case are and I hope you

guys enjoyed and I'll see you guys next week. Bye!