Rotten Mango - #35- The Bizarre Kidnapping of an Unborn Child (Case of Lisa Montgomery)

Episode Date: February 1, 2021

She told all of her friends that she was pregnant. People started getting suspicious when they realized she was so close to her due date but hadn't even started showing yet.  But Lisa had a plan. She would go visit an unsuspecting pregnant friend and cut the unborn baby from her womb.  Welcome to the first-ever minisode!  We will have long episodes, as usual, every Wednesday + the new additional mini-episodes on Sundays!  I hope you guys like the new schedule!  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rambles. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or pay to description starting at 12.99 per month. Buta bing buta bing buta bing. Welcome. I know what you're thinking. What are you doing here?

Today is not our schedule date. Today is not our scheduled appointment. That's for hump days. True crime Wednesdays bitch. What are you doing? Well guess what? This is the most official announcement that I will ever make on this podcast. We are doing Rotten Mango mini soads officially starting this week. Not only do you get one full length episode, you get another mini soad. I'm really trying to make something happen here. Ta-da! But nothing's happening here. That thing is happening. 10 silence. So I feel like three people have requested many soads, and I am a believer of giving the people what they want.

So welcome to the new mini-soads. OK, it's going to be a series. Let's get into it. We're starting off with a banger. We don't even have mini criminals. Like, we don't have small crimes. We have massive crimes. So January 13th of 2021, some shit went down.

And I was following this prior to January 13th, and I just kept getting crazier and crazier, and just more stuff started happening, more stuff started coming to life, more people started talking about it. And even to this day, people are still talking about it, even though it's been like a week, you know, a new cycle is fast.

A week ago, shit was going down. When were the more murder hornets? Like, I don't remember. All of this stuff is all merging into one. News is weird these days. But January 13th, some crazy shit went down. Okay, so a woman by the name of Lisa Montagomari, she was federally executed. She was the first woman to be federally executed since 1953.

Which means the federal government said, you're going to die, and they executed her. Now this doesn't really, maybe to you, it doesn't sound like such a crazy thing, but it's a crazy thing. It becomes so crazy, not just in terms of politics, not just in terms of ethics and morals, but just a whole bunch of nonsense. This is probably one of the most start to finish craziest cases because I feel like, you know,

after a lot of criminals they go to jail, you just kind of forget about them. You're like, oh, they were sentenced to X amount of years and then you forget about them and then you move on with your life and then you don't really dwell on it. Do you ever really like keep up with these criminals while they're in jail?

Probably not. But for start to finish, Lisa Montgomery's journey in this entire thing has just been batshit crazy and wild and it poses a lot of questions. So we're just going to get into it. If you guys kind of vaguely remember the name, Lisa Montgomery, in terms of true crime, she is the very infamous woman who had cut a hole into a pregnant woman's belly and took her fetus out and tried to raise it as her own. So she murdered the mother, ripped out the baby by cutting open the stomach while the mom was alive,

ran away with the baby and tried to tell people that that was her baby. Did we talk about this? We briefly talked about this, but I never really wanted to like full on depth about it. So this is gonna be like a deep dive into Lisa Montgomery. So let's start with her childhood because this is gonna be like a deep dive into Lisa Montgomery. So let's start with her childhood

because this is a part of the whole story that is very not so much widely talked about, which is very interesting because when you have a lot of other criminals, you always start with the childhood. You always start about what the fork happened. What did something go wrong? Zero killers, that's what we love talking about. But Lisa also had a very traumatic life.

So when she was a baby, her father left her when she was a toddler and the family would move around every year So like her and her mom they would move from like Washington to fucking Kansas and then the next day They'd be like we're going to Colorado, right? So she never had a stable home now to make things worse her mom was extremely evil Lisa Montgomery's mom was just not a good person. Okay? So post-conviction attorneys conducted an investigation into 450 family members, neighbors, lawyers, social workers, and teachers. They were all interviewed. And they all said that Lisa's mom was one of the most abusive people that they had ever

seen in their entire lives. So for example, ever since Lisa was a young girl, she would be forced on a high chair and she would be forced to sit there for hours if she didn't finish her food. Just should have to sit there on this high chair that she can't get out of for hours because she didn't finish her food. And then if Lisa started crying

because I mean, she's a baby, she doesn't know what the fork's going on. Like she can barely communicate with words. She's like, I don't know why I'm like forced to sit here. I just want to nap. Like, I'm a child. Her mom would cover her mouth with duct tape to keep her quiet. And if she still cried through the duct tape,

she would shove her fingers in her nose to really like suffocate her into being scared, to not scream, to not cry, to not do anything. Allegedly, even from her own mother's words, she said, oh yeah, my daughter's first words were don't spank me it hurts What? I don't know if that's factually true But like for even the mom to be like, oh yeah, those are her first words is kind of like you you know something was wrong in her life

Okay, so there was she also had an older half sister her name was Diane Maddingley and this is very important later on So Diane Maddingley when she was 8 years old, she was sent to foster care by CPS, because she was raped by one of the mom's acquaintances. Like one of the mom's boyfriends had raped Diane when she was 8 years old. So CPS comes in and is like, listen, you can no longer live in this house because we don't think that your mom can protect you. Oh, but your younger half sistersister, she can stay. What?

So Diane said that when she was escorted out of the house by CPS workers, she started throwing up on the driveway because she knew what would happen to Lisa soon. Like, there was just something in her heart that she was like, holy shit, like this isn't gonna be the first and last time that this happens under this lady's roof. Like, some shit's gonna go down. But CPS never followed up, never tried to...

I also think maybe, you know sometimes if she leaves, she knows the sister's gonna take all the... Oh, you know, she's gonna take it all on her. Yeah, oh my god. Oh my god, yeah. Okay, I didn't even think about that, that's even worse, yeah. And so she's just like being let out by CPS, and CPS never follows up on any of the other children, never follows up to any of the other children, never follows up to see if Lisa's doing okay, if Lisa was ever assaulted, none of that. This

is also very pertinent. So Lisa, when she was in elementary school, she was getting straight a's like she was doing really well. Even after all of this took place after the crime, when she went to psychiatrist prior to the trial, she had an IQ of 120. So this girl had a lot of potential. What's your IQ? 114. Oh. Okay. What are you calling me out like that?

And when she hit middle school, she started needing special needs classes. Like that's what she was placed in, was in special needs classes. And so obviously the administration thought it was due to deep emotional trauma was the likely cause because it's one thing to start off like that and to just be a little bit I guess like slower in developing education-wise, but it's another thing to be Excelling and then suddenly after summer break you're like a completely different person. That's like obviously, okay, some should's going down. But the administration, the school, they did not alert anyone. They were just like, oh, keep it on the DL. It's okay. Now another thing that people noticed when Lisa was in middle school is that they constantly

said it was easy to tell Lisa was poor, even in our crowd, of people who were all poor. So this takes place in Skidmore, Missouri, which we talked about in a YouTube video about Ken McElroy, remember? It's the town who killed someone. There was like 40 people who shot one town bully outside of a bar and they all got away with it. Skidmore, Missouri. Remember that guy? He went around and started, you know, doing arson and impregnated like a 12 year old girl

and the whole town hated him. And so when he was out on bail a group of 40 people went They shot him he died the police are like who shot him. They're like I don't know To this day is unsolved. It's been like 30 years. So this takes place in that same town I like how you know towns by Yeah Days you're like oh that's the town that this shit took place Yeah, it was just crazy because like the town right now has a population of 200-something people.

The graduating high school class is like 22 students. It's a really small town. So why the fork is all this happening there? In terms of small town, this has probably got to be one of the craziest true crime towns. Just like fucking NBC 48 hours, everyone move your location over there. Got all the news. And so they said that Lisa started to become spacing out. Like everything she would do, she would just space out in class. The school administration suspected that she was experiencing a lot of sexual abuse,

maybe regular abuse, just all sorts of abuse inside the house, but they failed to take any steps to further investigate. So this is just another example of Lisa's being failed by everyone right now. She was beat relentlessly. At one point they had a family dog and for some reason the mom decided that the kids were like pissing her off, so she was like, I'm going to kill your dog. So what she did was she grabbed Lisa, dragged her into the room, sat her down, and forced Lisa to watch her smash the dog's head repeatedly with a shovel until it died.

Jesus. And like, I can only imagine how gruesome and just bloody that is, I think it's even so traumatizing to have like a dog die of old age when you're a kid, you know? But then to see your mom smashing the head of your family beloved pet, what the heck are you doing? And so Lisa's mom gets remarried to a man by the name of Jack Kleiner, and this is when shit really starts hitting the fan. So Jack Kleiner becomes Lisa's stepdad, and he begins sexually assaulting her since she was 13 years old. It was so bad to the point like they were living in a trailer

in the middle of the woods. No one can hear Lisa's scream. Lisa has no neighbors to run to. There was no neighbors to be like, oh, why do I hear such rapid banging and screaming in a grushing in the middle of the night? There was none of that. They were very isolated. And he decided that he was going to build an outdoor shed. And this outdoor shed would have its own separate entrance from the trailer. And he would put Lisa in there.

He would hold her up in there and he would rape her, but not only that, he would bring his friends to that shed, to all gang rape, Lisa Montgomery. And the mom knows all of this and you'll pay with it. And the way that they would do it was absolutely disgusting. It would last for hours, they would physically assault her during the abuse They would also urinate on her after they were finished and then they would just toss her out of the shed to be like Okay, like go back to the trailer now and the mom blamed her for it The mom was like what you probably did something to bring this upon yourself Well like I told you to finish her food. Well like you shouldn't have talked back then

It was always like a reason that these men were doing this to her And then the mom was like wait a reason that these men were doing this to her. And then the mom was like, wait a minute, I can actually bank on this. So then she was like, you know what, I kind of want to have some plumbing work done around the house. I kind of want to have some like electrical work down the house because like I don't like the fact that we don't have any like lights in this part of the house or like I don't like that I don't have working running water in this part of the house right. So she would call these plumbers and these electricians and they would come and she would negotiate

a discount if they could have their go at her daughter who was underage. And I don't know what's scarier the fact that she did that or the fact that these men who are literally just like plumbers and electricians are like oh my god. Okay. Like you would think that one of these people would be like, that's disgusting and then go call the cops, but they were just like, sounds good. So at 14 years old Lisa goes to her cousin by the name of David. Now David is not just a regular cousin, David is a deputy sheriff.

He works for the Sheriff's Department, okay? So she's like ready to tell it all, she's had enough, she's realizing holy shit what's going on here is not something that should be going on It's not something that every family goes through this is a case of abuse So Lisa is recognizing this and so she goes up to her cousin and she says David I need to tell you something. I need to tell you something David says that she was crying. She was shaking She was just in tears. She was emotional and so he's like, okay What do you need to tell me like sit down? What's going on Lisa? And so she sits down and she said

My stepdad and his friends are raping me. She said it was over and over and over again One man right after the other and it went on for hours They were also physically violent. They would beat her and slap her and say that she was, quote, doing it wrong. When they were done, they urinated on her like she was trash. David said she was horrified. He was horrified. David was horrified. Yes.

That's David's quote. She said it was over and over, you know. He was horrified. Now, horrified David, deputy sheriff sheriff David didn't tell anyone What the fuck yeah, what do you mean? I? Guess he was just like okay whatever not my problem. I honestly don't know what I I mean I he says it's his regret now, but I'm like I don't understand what could possibly going on in your head All he said was I he heard all that he was horrified and that's it

Yeah, you was like I I knew she was, he literally told people, I knew she was telling the truth because she was shaking and crying, and I was horrified. And then he just shut up. Like, can you imagine? I don't understand either. It's has to do with he doesn't want his family business. Yeah, especially because he's a deputy sheriff. So these would be his co-workers that he's going to to be like, Hey, we need to go arrest my family member. But I mean, it's crazy because he's a deputy sheriff so these would be his co-workers that he's going to to be like hey We need to go rest my family member, but I mean it's crazy because it's not even like his not that that would make a difference for me

But I'm just trying to think in his perspective. It's not even his biological family member. It's literally a stepdad It's like this guy owes you nothing this you know you owe this guy nothing It's not even like your dad. Oh, that was his, who's his dad? No, I'm saying it's Lisa's stepdad. So it's not even like by blood related to David. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just really confusing why. Yeah.

So he did not go to the police with this, even though he works at the police department all day, every day, he just was like, I was horrified by. And so by the time Lisa is 17 years old, the mom and the stepdad get a divorce. Now just to show you how heartless Lisa's mom is, this is going to break your heart. You know how there's divorce proceedings and you go and you're like, what you did this? So like, I deserve more money. Like you did this.

So I deserve this piece of furniture, right? So they were having these divorce proceedings. And the mom forced Lisa to go to these proceedings and tell the judge about the rapes so that the mom could get the upper hand in the divorce. So Lisa's there, she's emotional, she's crying, she's telling the judge about these assaults and the mom's just sitting there like, yeah, yeah, tell her. And then what happened? Tell her what happened next.

And the judge literally told her you were disgusting for lacking empathy Telling the mom. Yeah, like how can you bring your daughter in she's crying She's telling me that you're like your husband just raped her for years and you're just sitting there like yeah anyway So like do I get the house? I thought if they hear that don't they arrest a husband? I guess I don't. But there was no punishment. Yeah. I know.

It's going to get even weirder. OK? It's going to get even more confusing. And so at this point, the social worker, they found the allegations of abuse credible. Right? So the social worker hears this in court and is like, OK, like the judge sent me to investigate because the judge was like, oh, this 17- 17 year old is claiming that she was abused by this person So she creates a file or this person creates a file turns it over to the Tulsa County's DA's office and nothing happened

Like they didn't follow up. So the DA never charged him the DA never went after Jack nothing. They were just like, okay, bye Like thanks for the file. We'll just like, okay, bye. Like, thanks for the file. We'll just like put it in with the rest of our paperwork. We'll just put it in where we keep our traffic tickets because it's such a low priority. That's what they did, yeah. And so obviously, Lisa, I mean, this is all gonna impact everything that she does in life

and this is kind of why it's become such a controversial case. And I know it feels a little weird and I know that I'm trying really hard because anytime I talk about female killers, I'm always worried that people think that I have a bias towards them because I'm like, well, you know, especially when I was like covering Eileen, you know, just female-seer of color, I'm always worried. So I'm trying not to let that impact me in any case or situation, but it has become a very big topic of conversation. So she gets married at 18 years old to her step brother by the name of Carl Bowman. So Carl is not biologically related to her so it wasn't incest but it's her step brother. So from her mom's fourth husband. This is not Jack's son or anything of that sort. A new husband. A new husband. Her fourth husband. So weird. So mom's like, let me marry to the dad. Yeah. And you married to his son. Yeah.

So I think it may be it happened after the divorce. I couldn't find that information clearly, but it's still weird. So yeah, they get married. Now he repeatedly raped her vaginally and annually multiple times with foreign objects such as bottles. And I know that again, this wasn't brought up in court often because I can't even say back in the day because the trial happened in 2007. But spousal rape is not considered as high priority in a lot of true crime cases, which is insane. You can be raped by your spouse, like just because you're married, no still means no, I'm sorry, but like nobody is anybody's property where it's like, oh I'm sorry, I don't know the word no in this house, like that doesn't make any sense.

And so he would tie her up in stress positions for hours. This is literally full on CIA torture tactics. And he would video record this, he would hold a knife to her throat while he just brutally rapes her, and he would record video record this. He would hold a knife to her throat while he just brutally rapes her and he would record all of this. Now one of Lisa's half-brother saw a video recording of one of these assaults happened and he said it was straight out of a horror movie. That car was just beating her, raping her, assaulting her, just felt like a snuff film. Yeah, nobody did anything. And then he was like, okay, bye! Yeah.

He said, I was horrified. I was horr anything. And then he was like, okay, bye. Yeah. He said, I was horrified. I was horrified. And that's it. And then I realized I was also a little hungry. So I went to Chipotle. Like, I don't understand these people. Yeah. He was just like, it was straight out of a horror movie. Anybody need some lunch around here? Like, what are you doing? Right? I mean, insane. So Carl, obviously later on, went to jail for charges of child sexual abuse. So this call, dude, is just a horrendous person, right? So by the time Lisa's 24 years old,

she had four young children with Carl, and she was just having these psychotic episodes, like so many instances of just very strange things, okay? So one day she would wake up in the middle of the night, knock on every kids' room. Wake up, wake up! And then they'd be startled awake. She would like violently wake them up, right? And then she'd like, get in the car, get in the car.

We're going on an educational road trip. And they're like, mom, it's like three in the morning, like, where are you going? And she's like, we gotta go to the alamo. We're going on an educational road trip. And she put, they had a pet goat. I know this sounds crazy, but they lived in like the countryside, okay? But they had a pet goat.

She put a diaper on the pet goat, put the goat into the car, and they drove from Kansas to Texas in just like one night. Like she was just speeding on the highway with all of her kids, like, what is happening? And she was like, I'm gonna teach you about the Alamo. I'm gonna teach this goat about life. And like she was obviously going through a manic episode. Like this is a normal behavior by anyone. This isn't even spontaneous. Like this is none of that, right? And to be fair, she was honestly a really really shitty mom.

She was a horrendous mom. I don't know how to put it. Like she would go through these. She physically couldn't brush her kids hair So she would she in her head wanted to brush her kids hair so bad She was like, I'm gonna brush my daughter's hair today and she would start brushing it But for some reason she couldn't brush it the way that she wanted to so then she would end up just like banging the brush Onto the kids had repeatedly because she's getting frustrated so like I mean Lisa was a shit mom Like I have no argument that Lisa's kids should have So like, I mean, Lisa was a shit mom. Like, I have no argument that Lisa's kids

should have been taken away from Lisa, right? Was the husband still in their lives? Kind of on and off. So later, he would sue for custody, which I don't even know if that means anything because he literally was in jail for child sexual abuse. So like, I mean, both situations would have been horrendous. I think that they should have been placed in foster care

Which again is a bad option, but probably better than these two options and so she was abusive She was neglectful. She never really kept them fed she never shower them They were known to be very very unhygienic Lisa barely had any hygiene herself So at one point during this time Lisa had lies for five years straight and she didn't know she had lies She had no idea that she had lies. Okay. Her kids just remember her sitting just like blankly in front of a computer for hours a day just like scratching her head for getting a shower never knew she had lies.

I mean it was this whole problem right. Now after the fourth kid there are a lot of reports on what happened, but Lisa was sterilized in a medical facility. So some people say that Carl forced her to have a sterilization process because he was like, oh, I don't want any more kids, so you have to do it. And he forced her into this. Now, some other people claim that Lisa's mom

forced her into this and was like, no, you need to do this because I'm sick of you popping out grandkids Now another source claims that Lisa's doctor recommended this because her last baby was born two months premature So the doctor was like this is gonna be like really painful if you ever go through with another pregnancy And so there's just been a lot of reports about it But she would claim to Carl after her sterilization that she was pregnant five more times. And he didn't believe her, but she fully believed it.

Like she fully was like, I'm fucking pregnant, dude. So she's really going through it. Yeah, like really going through it. And I think the state of her house will really impact that. So she was missing walls and floors and some parts of her house. Like there would just be missing floorboards in her house. Like there would just be like floorboards in her house. Like there would just be like a hole in her house. Like you would just see wooden planks because she's missing like the dry wall in a lot of

areas. Like it just was really bad. There was no running water or plumbing in most parts of our house. She had no furniture or beds. Children were sleeping on the floor in like sleeping bags that had dog and rat poop all over it. There were loose wires just all over the house, which like if you have children,

listen, I know parents who are crazy about just like having round tables, because they're like, I don't want corners because my kid's gonna like accidentally fall and like hit its eye on a corner, you know? But she just like loose wires everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was bad.

So eventually she gets a divorce with Carl and she marries a guy by the name of Kevin Montgomery and he insisted on incorporating sexual violence into the relationship as well. So in I think with Kevin it was more of a BDSM thing that was what he was into. He was like I like to tie people up, I like to spank them, I like to do these things, which in a healthy relationship with someone who is mentally stable would have been completely fine. But with Lisa, it's a very complex, deep issue where she is going to think it's fine, but it's probably just going to further traumatize her later down in the line. And she would later tell a psychologist, well, he wasn't as violent or hurtful as Carl, as if like that was love.

You know, as if like, oh, no, yeah, of course, like he would slap me around in bed, but he was never as violent or hurtful as my super violent hurtful ex. So it's just, you know, it goes to show that she really was not expecting much from any man. So Carl starts suing for custody. Now, this is when Lisa gets really frantic.

So Lisa's kids are all approaching their teenage years. So I think the youngest was approaching maybe 12. They're all going to high school. And Lisa just really wanted more children. Like she wanted babies. And I don't know if that's something that made her feel like she was going to be happy if she had babies or that genuinely made her happy. Because I know for most normal thinking people it's just going to be like be like wait but she can't even take care of the ones that she has

right now what's going on right but you know like I said Lisa was just going through it maybe also this could have been a lot of people say this could have been a form of her rejecting all of that trauma and like the trauma is maybe she had tied it to the sterilization process maybe that was incredibly traumatizing for her and so from that she's she's like, no, no, no, like, I want more babies because that didn't happen. That didn't happen. So some people think it's like a mixture of all of these things

or maybe she just genuinely likes kids. I'm not sure. So she marries Kevin. And for three times, she tells Kevin that she's pregnant. And so for the first two times, Kevin said, you know, okay, like I'm so excited, I can't wait to have children with you. And then one day she would come home and she would say,

hey, I went to the doctor and there was something wrong with the fetus and it had to be aborted. Interesting. And so he'd be like, oh my God, like I'm so sorry that you went through that. Like that's not a joke. Like let me just like, okay, like come here. Let me give you a hug, you know, he was really nice about it.

And Lisa just really, really wanted to be pregnant. So 2004 comes around. And this is around the time, she's struggling with these. There's a word for it that I'm gonna get into, but it's when you fully believe that you're pregnant to the point where your body has symptoms of pregnancy. Like you might even not have a period for like two months because your body is tricking itself

into believing that you're pregnant. So it's like really intense, you know. And so 2004, I'm going to introduce into the story a woman by the name of Bobby Joe Stinett, who was 23 years old and she was married to a guy by the name of Zeb. And they were living in Skidmore, Missouri. Now a lot of like that area is known for a lot, just like construction work, a lot of factory work, but they had a really cool job where they would breed terrier dogs out of their home.

Like they were obsessed with dogs, and everyone knew them to be very sweet, very caring, and Bobby, in particular, she was just always happy. So the couple had been married for about a year, and Zeb was just like this doting husband loved his wife. He even got a part-time job just to work extra hard for his wife at a motor manufacturing company in the nearby area

And so they're finally expecting their first child. They've been married for a year. They're expecting their first child They're freaking over the moon like Bobby her entire life. She's like, I want to be a mom And so this was like her dream come true. She's met the man of her dreams. Like now she's going to start a family. I mean, everything's going well. She's doing what she loves. She's breeding these terrier dogs. They're her favorite thing in the world.

So December 2004, she was eight months pregnant. So she's running all of these breeding services. She's pregnant. But she also ran an online rat terrier chat forum. It was called Ratter Chatter. So it's rat terriers like a type of dog, and so you called it Ratter Chatter, which is really cute, right? It was like an online platform for owners to chat.

Yeah, like all of these Rat Terrier breeders from across the nation to like talk to each other because sometimes they need studs, I think, is what they call them, because you know, some breeders, they only have females or some breeders need like, oh, can I barrel the sperm of a dog? Or they just really just bond on the difficulties of what is it about breeding? I think it's very interesting because it's really a tight knit community because it's

not necessarily a nationwide thing. It's not necessarily each other's competition, so they can truly just be really good friends on there, right? So not saying that you can't have friendly competition, so they can truly just be really good friends on there, right? And so, not saying that you can't have friendly competition, but you get the idea. And so she runs this chat forum, and she would share business tips, she would share information about her business,

but also life updates. They were all really close on there, and she talked about how she's due in January of 2005. She's like, I'm gonna give birth, I'm so freaking excited. Now another person, though as part of this rather chatter was a Lisa Montgomery from Kansas Why is she on there? She loves

Rattarious. She loves dogs. She wanted to breed dogs at one point She would she went to dog shows She just has like a thing for dogs and she was also posting on rather chatter And she too announced her pregnancy around the same time and said that she was also posting on Ratter Trotter and she too announced her pregnancy around the same time and said that she was pregnant with twins, but one of them had died inside of her stomach. So she was still due to give birth to the surviving twin in December. So it's like a very intense story, it's a very intense pregnancy if it were true. Now a lot of the breeders were suspicious because they had seen her at local dog shows recently

and they had seen pictures of her at these dog shows too. And she was not gaining like an ounce of weight. Which you know, I know that there's like a stigma being like, um, still maintaining like very thin when you're pregnant. It's like not supposed to be the healthiest thing. I don't know what it is, okay. But it was the fact that she was having twins. She didn't even gain one pound really it looked like.

They just didn't understand, but she was wearing maternity clothing, so it was very confusing. People just, it was hush hush rumors. No one was, you know, attacking her about it. They were just like, don't you guys think that's weird? Like nothing. We haven't even seen a bump. Like no bump. And so she was talking about, well, I'm experiencing morning sickness. Her, her husband, Kevin even saw her every single day take prenatal vitamins. She wasn't having a period, so I guess maybe she would be like, oh my god, I'm so annoyed I'm on my period, or maybe he would see tampons in the bathroom. He didn't see any of that. So he genuinely believed too that she was pregnant.

This is her third time or? This is her third time now. Yeah, so like the first two, she said they aborted the fetuses because you know, yeah, but you know her third time, she was like, yeah, it's twins, but like only one is surviving and she had told Kevin that too. And she had gotten these ultrasound photos off of the internet and she had Photoshop them to have her name on it because all these ultrasound photos for a reason, they put your name on it the mother's name. Yeah. And she photoshopped her name on there and she would just like show all of her friends she would show Kevin. I don't know why Kevin like wouldn't go to these ultrasound hearings. Maybe he was busy. Maybe he was working. I don't know. But he was just

like wow that's our baby. And that is when Bobby Joe and Lisa started connecting through Radar chatter because Bobby has always been like a super sweet person She was so excited about our pregnancy and she was also really excited like she knew Lisa had met her at some dog shows And so she's like I can't believe that we're pregnant at the same time I can't believe we have this like very similar due dates and they start talking about everything just like the ups and the downs of pregnancy Just baby names the things that they were currently buying for their baby like baby wipes a wipe warmer. Did you guys know that those exist? I just found out they're my sister. Apparently a cold baby wipe makes your baby butt cry. Yeah, so like you need to like put it in a baby butt heater. Makes sense. Makes sense, but I was like, that's bougie. I kind of want one for

myself. Okay. And so, you know, they were just talking about all of these things online. And then all of a sudden, there was a guy by the name of Jason Dawson. What a name, dude. What a name, right? So he is also a rat-terrier breeder, and he gets a direct message by a woman by the name of Darlene Fisher. A little thing to note about Jason is that he's really good friends with Bobby. Like they're like the best of friends. Anytime you see them at a dog show, they're like

constantly together. He also breeds rat terriers, but he's not from Skidmore, Missouri. And so, darling Fisher reaches out to Jason and it's like, I love your pets. Like they're so pernay. Like, I want a rat terrier. So bad. It's almost Christmas time. I want to get a rat terrier for my kids. I've got four kids. I can't wait to give them a rat terrier But you know, I live in like northern Missouri. Do you know anyone who breeds in northern Missouri because you know You're too far like I love your dogs, but like I mean I was just hoping maybe you could recommend me someone and so he's like Oh my god, like that's crazy wait wait where did you say you're from? Well, I have a friend her name is Bobby Joe and she is probably like a 25-minute Drawing from you in Skidmore, Missouri and I know that she just had a litter which is insane because you know

We were trying to prep for Christmas so she just had a litter So I'm gonna give you her email and her website address and you just you talked to her tell her that Jason sent you and so Darlene is like oh my gosh Thank you so much So she takes the email and Darleen emails Bobby Joe. And her username on Ratter Tratter was Fisher for kids. Like Fisher, Darleen Fisher's last name and then four kids, like the number four, so she's four kids, right?

And so she's like, yeah, I live in Fairfax, Missouri, which is about 25 minutes away from Skidmore, Missouri. And so they set up a date for her to meet a puppy. She's like, I wanna meet the puppy first before I buy the puppy, very normal. And so they set up a date for her to meet a puppy. She's like, I want to meet the puppy first before I buy the puppy, very normal. And so of course, she's like, okay, that sounds great. Now that day in particular, Bobby Joe's husband had work at the motor company.

And he was like, are you sure? Like, are you sure it's gonna be okay because she's coming over to the house? Like, you're sure. And now Bobby was like, yeah, I mean, I talked to Darlene. It's a referral from Jason Dawson, the friend from Radar Chatter. And she's a female.

So like, I don't think anything weird's gonna happen. She's got kids. Like, it's not like I'm asking like a dude to come over and meet the puppy. So I think it'll be fine. I think it'll be fine. And like, you know what time she's coming and everything. So it'll be good.

So 2.15 p.m. Bobby's on the phone with her mom and she's telling her mom, hey mom, like a woman's coming over to look at the puppy soon, so I gotta hang up soon. So they continue on their conversation about 2.30pm, Bobby's mom threw the phone here so not on the door. And so Bobby says, okay like mom, she's here, I gotta go and I'll talk to you later. They hang up.

Now Bobby Joe answers the door, but she's immediately confused confused because she was expecting a darling Fisher but she saw Alisa Montgomery. Oh she knows her. Oh, okay. And so Bobby is like, oh, like, oh, that's so random. Okay, well I have someone like coming over to look at the puppies but like, do you want to come inside? And before she could finish that sentence, be so barges in and starts strangling her with a cord until she stopped struggling. She pushes Bobby Joe onto her back and takes out a kitchen knife. And now at this point, Bobby Joe is like in and out of consciousness. Most of the time, the police assume that she was conscious during this attack. She grabs out a knife, Lisa grabs out a kitchen knife and starts cutting open her pregnant belly. Like a circle in her belly. Now, once she was alive, and she was just cutting her belly's

open, cutting her belly open while she's alive with a kitchen knife. Now, once the cart cut was large enough, she sticks her hands into Bobby Joe's open stomach and extracts the fetus, grabs the blanket, wraps the baby girl into the blanket, goes back to the cart and drives away. Bobby Joe was alive during all of this. She could not scream because she was in, you know, a lot of stuff happens when this should take place, right? She was like in and out of consciousness.

She couldn't call 911. Now, she was alive for a long time and the police have a lot of stuff happens when this shit takes place. She was in and out of consciousness. She couldn't call 911. Now she was alive for a long time, and the police have a lot of reasons why they speculate this, which is brought up in trial later. But what's very interesting is that they said, look at a picture of her feet. So the bottom of her feet were soaked in blood. And so she was trying to run,

and trying to walk, and trying to kick. So it showed that she wasn't just like laying there on her back. Oh, so she probably got up, fell, got up, fell. Like trying to do something, but like in and out of consciousness. And so Lisa didn't kill, she didn't kill Bobby afterwards. Like let me just finish this. Yeah, she just took the baby. How was the baby?

So the baby was considered to be in good condition because the baby will get into it, right? They get so interesting. So the baby was so close to the due date that they didn't think that the baby would have too many complications, but they thought that the baby could have had a complication from such a traumatic birth. Because such a traumatic birth is not just horrendous on the mother and traumatic on the mother It's also traumatic on the baby. Yeah, and so they I mean time was of the essence now 330 p.m. Bobby Joe's mom continues to call Bobby Joe and she's not picking up the phone So she's like what the heck like I know that she had someone coming over at 2.30 Why would they stay for an hour just to look at a puppy?

That is like out of the norm and so she decides to go check up on her daughter So she drives to her daughter up on her daughter. So she drives to her daughter's house. She opens the door. It's unlocked. She's like, oh hell no. Like that means something's wrong, right? She walks in blood everywhere. Bobby Joe is laying unconscious. She has a fist of someone's like blonde hair in her hands to show that she was like trying to fight back, you know? And so she's got all of this hair in her hands. And the mom calls 911. And her exact words is that she said it looked like her daughter's stomach had exploded. Oh my God.

Like it was gruesome. She said there was no sign of the baby anywhere. Please, hurry, please, hurry. The paramedics get there in like record time and they could not revive Bobby Joe and she was pronounced dead at the scene. Now, the paramedics understanding all of like the medical complications of this, they said, okay, first of all, the baby was probably alive since you know, she was carried almost full-term.

And second of all, the baby is probably in distress because it just endured this incredibly traumatic birth. Like, time is taking, we need to find this baby if we want to keep this baby alive. Yeah. And so the police are freaking out. Now the police, when they arrive on the scene, they were freaking traumatized. They said it was one of the most bloody, traumatizing things that they had ever seen in their life. So they go to the neighbors and one of the neighbors says, oh, I saw a car that I've never seen before. It's a dirty old red, like Toyota that was like parked in the driveway around 2.30 pm. And Bobby Joe's's like that's the time that's the time that the stranger was gonna come look

at the puppies and so they're like okay okay like we need to find like put out an amber alert we need to do all of this now getting an amber alert for this baby was already difficult because in order to get an amber alert authorized usually you need some information like eye color, weight, hair, something nobody Nobody knew anything about what the baby looked like. Okay. They were just like Caucasian baby on the loose. Like, what do we do? Well, that's what they're putting out, a baby, not that.

Yeah. Because the car wasn't stolen necessarily. They can only put out a polo for other cops, like be on the lookout. But they can't necessarily put out like an amber alert. So they put out an amber alert for like the baby itself. And this news was spreading like wildfire, especially in the Radar chatter group

because it happened to one of their breeders. Now one of the breeders remembered seeing a user talking and like commenting on Bobby Joe's pictures. And they were like, oh my god, I need to go look for that. Like, I need a dig for that. And so they dig down and they're like, fish her for kids, fisher for kids fisher for kids Like that's such a weird

Such a weird why does that feel weird and she was like whatever like I'm just gonna be a Karen and if like nothing happens Nothing happens so she calls the FBI and it's like I don't know if this is anything okay I'm just saying you need to check out the router chatter group because maybe it was this person I believe Jason also reached out to authorities once he learned about all of this because he was like, oh my god, she was meeting with Darlene Fisher, you know? And so the FBI starts combing through all of the emails. But they couldn't find any Darlene Fisher in Fairfax, Missouri because that's what all the emails said she was from, from Fairfax, Missouri.

And so they decided to trace the IP address, and they traced it to Melvern fucking Kansas. And they were like what the fuck right? And it was to the home of a Kevin Montgomery. Okay. So they're like who are these people? So they send a bunch of authorities to track down these people and December 17th. Lee's and Kevin were going around town showing off their newest addition to the family. Baby Abigail. And Abigail was alive and well. Alive and well. So Lisa told her friends the same story that she told Kevin. She went grocery shopping, then she went into full-on labor,

and she was rushed to this woman's center. She gave birth so easily to the point where she didn't even have to call Kevin. It happened so quick. Her water broke during the middle of shopping. Ooh, baby just popped out of me, just shot out of my badge. And then I called Kevin to pick me up at the local fast food joint near the hospital because I hate staying in the hospital, so I walked out of there with the baby and decided to get some food, so Kevin picked me up and now here we are.

Uh-huh. Now the friends, you know, they reported that the baby looked a little bit small, like maybe born a little too early, but otherwise really healthy. Like it didn't look like the baby was premature to the point where they needed medical attention, but they didn't really suspect anything crazy. Like this isn't really a town where everyone's like, I got a room at like Cedar Sinai, like everyone's just like, okay, cool, like you had a baby, cool. Like you already have four babies, you know?

Nobody was like, oh, this is weird, this is weird. Now, they get home and meanwhile, FBI is already outside their house. And they're waiting, they drive home in an old dirty red car and it pulls up into the driveway and outcome a couple with a newborn baby. And the FBI is like, okay, fuck you. And so they're like, hey, can we just be invited inside?

And of course, the couple is like, absolutely come inside. So the FBI sits down in the living room, and they start asking, so when'd you get birth? And Lisa gives the same story that she gave all of her friends. I was, I went into labor while I was grocery shopping. And the FBI said, well, we checked the hospitals in the nearby area, and nobody gave birth that day. There's no record of you giving birth anywhere.

And she immediately broke down and just confessed to everything. And I was like, yeah, I drove over to Skidmore, Missouri, and I killed a woman and I took her baby. So Kevin, during all of this, FBI reported that he seemed super shocked. That he was just like, what? Like he really thought his wife was pregnant and he really thought that that was his baby. So I mean, his ex-wife did say that he is easily gullible because a lot of people believe that he was guilty too

because they're like, how can a full grown man like just believe this crazy ass story because it doesn't make sense? But the ex-wife was like, no, I mean, I think that he could because he's just a very easily manipulatable person. Yeah, sometimes dudes are pretty clueless on anything. Yeah, have you seen those TikToks of girls asking their guys to go buy them period products that don't exist from Target?

Yeah, exactly. And they all get back in the car and they're like, I asked five employees, they don't know what that is. And the girls are just giggling. What do you mean there's no super shocker period defender? What do you mean? How does that not exist? Geez, this is why I shop at Walmart, Leedsangrally. It's like, oh shit.

And so she was arrested for kidnapping, resulting in death. Now Carl, the ex husband, he immediately goes to the FBI and he tells them there's no way she could have been pregnant because she had her tubes tied. Like she was sterilized and he tells them that the doctor recommended it blah blah blah blah blah and he was just like, haha. So now I get custody of the kids. Shut up. Yeah. He's like really excited about it. I hate him. And so a lot of doctors immediately believe that Leesamont Gummary had something called pseudosysis, which is when a belief, when a woman believes that she's pregnant and will even develop physical symptoms of it.

So during her psychiatric evaluation, because every criminal has one, especially criminals with these types of crimes, and they said that she probably did have that. She was probably delusional. She was dealing with depression by polar disorder. She had temporal lobe epilepsy, also extreme PTSD. She also took a test on ability to function and she ranked incredibly low, which means she was not even able to maintain her own hygiene. She would lose focus during simple conversations. She had trouble planning simple tasks like she couldn't do anything. And so Lisa had also moved to 61 times

since she was 34 years old, and that was a show of just how unstable like her entire life was and how her family life was unstable. Now the trial becomes the absolute shit show. I can't even describe how shitty this trial is. So the trial, she has three male attorneys and these were her like her main defense attorneys. Jon O'Connor, Frederick Dushart,

I don't know if that's how you pronounce it. I'm like the shard. David Owen. David Owen's an ass, okay. Now several female attorneys were trying to take the case and some of them were put on the legal team but they were either dismissed or they withdrew themselves from the legal team. One of them, one of the female attorneys said that David Owen was misogynistic and overbearing and was incredibly rude to any female who had anything to say about anything. Now Judy Clark, let me tell you about Judy Clark. I could do a whole podcast on Judy Clark. She is probably one of the best death penalty lawyers out there in the world.

She represented Ted Kaczynski, the Unibomber, prevented him from getting the death penalty. She represented, I believe, a couple other bombers, Susan Smith, who killed her own children. Like, she represented, she takes on high profile, high criminals that are facing the death penalty. Now, I don't really hate Judy Clark, death penalty. Now I don't really hate Judy Clark because I mean I don't really think she's in it for the money. She's been a charitable person but she's really just advocating against the death penalty. She's not saying this person deserves no time. She's saying give them life in jail. Why are you trying to kill them? You know? And she's really good at the mental health defense. Like, that's her specialty. That's her strong suit.

So she gets put on the case and the judge dismissed her for being, and I quote, involvement was obstructive in getting a defense for Lisa together. Now, I don't want to say for sure, but there is speculation because David is an attorney, and I'm not trying to get sued. But it's speculated that David went to the judge that he was friends with to convince him to get Judy Clark off of the case because she was a masculating and quote, bossy.

Which is really sad because Lisa Montgomery is terrified of men, hates being around men she doesn't know. Judy Clark was the only one Lisa liked in her entire legal defense team. She was the only one she wanted to meet up with. She was the only one she would tell her history about, like, oh, this is what happened in my past. And after she found out about this,

she became suicidal and jail. She wrote a letter to the judge asking, why, what, like, please put her back on the case, she's the only one I care about, right? And the judge responded, oh, sorry, she's like, oh, because she's no longer necessary or helpful. Imagine saying that to the person that she's representing. And she's like, no, I'm saying she's necessary and helpful. So it was all because they had a big argument over dinner.

And David Owen, who has never represented a capital punishment case, like, never represented a death penalty case prior to this, he had no experience and at Judy Clark as a seasoned attorney, she wanted to take the lead or be one of the people to take the lead, but David was like fucking pissing all over it. He was like, this is my area. And so Judy said that very matter of fact at dinner, she told him, and I quote, he did not know enough to be the leader of the team and that he needed to relinquish control. The attorney on the team with the least experience should not be in control of the case. David Owen claims that during dinner, Judy looked at him and said, you are too stupid to set priorities and don't have enough trial experience to make any decisions.

Which is okay. Which like, I mean, she could have put it nicer, but like, it still says the same thing, so I don't know what they're debating here, right? So he admit that, okay, I don't have experience. And I feel emasculated by this woman telling me I have no experience, so he got her taken off the case, allegedly. What makes it even worse is that the chief investigator on Lisa's team told all of these female attorneys I'm not gonna take an order for any damn woman.

Like don't go tell me to investigate Lisa's past. Go tell David to tell me even though he has less experience than you and is less credible than you and is a shitty attorney compared to you. But like tell him because I only talk to penises. I only put them in my mouth. I mean I don't think he said that, but like that's what it sounds like to me. And even after Judy Clark was taken off the case, she attempted to visit Lisa and Jail, but she was denied at the prison to even talk to Lisa.

And this is really important because one of her main attorneys, one of her main male attorneys only visited Lisa during her entire trial, three times and put together a shitty defense. So they need a Judy Clark. They need a Judy Clark. I don't know what else to say. What makes it even worse is that the American Bar Association, which is literally the association that controls all attorneys and is like, I could take away your license. Thank you, right?

They dictate that if an attorney is working on a case that is dealing with the death penalty, you need, at minimum, to work with what is called a mitigation specialist, which is essentially an investigator who goes in private investigator who digs up all their background, like background of trauma, mental illness, anything. Just family neighbors who knew them when they were three years old.

That's how we get this information. It's not because these attorneys are like driving around in like trench coats and like sunglasses. It's because they hire people like this. This legal team did not work with one of those. They're in hire one. They just were like, Lisa's gonna tell us all. Lisa doesn't trust men. You don't even try to visit her or build rapport.

So she's not gonna tell you shit. So the trial was super shitty. The main defense was not even about Lisa being going through what Lisa went through, but it was about how she had a severe case of pseudo-sicist, the thing where you think you're pregnant, which then the prosecutor was just telling the jury that that's voodoo science, like that's stupid. They did bring up the child abuse and the sexual abuse, but they didn't really hone in on it. They didn't bring in experts to say why this is important. They didn't say, hey, because of that, this led to ABC&D.

They were just like, she was abused as a kid. K, thanks, bye. And so the jury is like, wait, what do I do with this information? Like, I don't necessarily know what that means, because that's different from this. Like, that feels like a completely different thing. Why do you keep bringing it up? The prosecutor had a famous psychiatrist testify against her pseudocyces.

His name is Park Diaz and he worked on some very famous cases, such as the Jeffrey Dahmer case. He worked on the Unibomacase Ted Kuzinsky and he said that she wasn't delusional. And the main reason is because she had doctored the ultrasound photos, which shows that she knew that she wasn't delusional. The main reason is because she had doctored the ultrasound photos, which shows that she knew that she wasn't pregnant. She faked it. Yeah. And if you think you're pregnant, why would you do that, right?

I mean, that's what I was thinking. It seems like she did kind of plot a lot of the things. Yeah. So that's why the debate was, is being in a state of a psychotic break, is it exactly what we think it is? Like, can you be in a long-term psychotic break and still do these planned activities? Or not, right?

So that was a huge debate. And the murder, they said it was pre-meditated because she brought a nice to the house. She also pretended to be somebody else before she came to the house. She made like a whole online persona, which like honestly, I can't argue that, right? She also asked the arresting officers why they were being so nice to her when they knew

what she had done. So this kind of shows that she knew between right and wrong, like what she had done is wrong. Now another psychiatrist testified that she had one of the most severe cases of disassociation that they had ever seen in their entire career. Like she completely disassociates herself from her own body. At so many points in their conversation, I believe she worked with her for like 18 hours. She didn't even know the state of her own body. Meaning like, do you even know that you're hungry right now? Or you thirst, like she

doesn't even know that. Like if you're hungry or thirsty or warm or cold right now. So they brought in another prosecutor who was a forensic psychologist by the name of Dr. Daniel Martel, the prosecution about this person in, and they said that she scored well below being psychotic. The test showed that she was cunning and manipulative. She had a 120 IQ which is high. She is a pathological liar. She lacked remorse, irresponsible, failed to accept responsibility, and exhibited promiscuous

sexual behavior. They proved to the jury that she was a pathological liar because she told the therapist, oh I'm in a macular housekeeper and my house is neat as a pin, but then they showed pictures of her house and it was a complete shit show, it was a mess. And they were like, haha, fucking liar. Yeah, which is crazy because she had a room that she called the trash room, which is literally like instead of you know how you take your trash out to the trash can, she was just like thrown into that room. It was just filled with trash. And the attorneys failed. Her defense attorneys failed to show the jury

that this is mental illness. This isn't her just being a dirty person. Like this is her literally struggling with her mental state. Yeah. There was also a huge PTSD debate. So the defense attorney said that the PTSD was from all the sexual abuse that she endured as a kid. The prosecutor said that the PTSD was because she had just carved a baby out of someone's stomach.

Even the hardest of criminals can have PTSD from their own crimes that they commit themselves. So it was like a debate. And it was just the strangest thing. They did bring up a past, but they still, like I said, didn't really hone in on why this is important. Why does it matter that she was raped as a kid, right? And instead of bringing her defense attorneys instead of bringing an expert to testify about trauma, about child abuse, trauma, sex trauma, they read a poem about rape in their closing arguments.

They fucking read a poem about rape. What the fuck why? They just thought that that was murder. They thought that was a better defense. They brought the cousin in onto the stand. You know the cousin, the deputy sheriff that she confessed all of these things to and the attorneys didn't ask him any questions. They were just like, was she a abuse does a kid? Yes. Okay, bye. He later said it took him longer to take the oath before testifying than to actually give a

testimony. So I don't know why the defense attorneys didn't say what did she say? Was she emotional? You know, they didn't do any of that. They were just like, so she was abused as a kid? Okay, thanks for your testimony. Get out of here. So the prosecutors would repeatedly throughout this entire thing, you know, use discriminatory language. They constantly said, and I quote, abuse excuse to the jury, which is incredibly sexist

and incredibly fucked up. They said that she was a horrible question and that her mothering was in question because she didn't cook and she didn't clean. They also brought in experts, the government brought in experts that described Lisa as being a willing participant in the rapes by her stepfather. They insinuated that she consented and was willingly raped by her own stepfather at 13 years old where you legally cannot consent. There was just so much misogyny in the whole case. There was also insinuations that maybe the assaults didn't even happen, or maybe she wanted it to happen. How will we ever know there's no witnesses? Is kind of how the prosecutors phrased it, which is crazy because oh yeah, everyone just rapes children in public. Like what do you mean there's no witnesses? Like

that's crazy. Now food for thought, right? Being a woman makes it less likely that you'll be sentenced to death because 2% of death row inmates right now are women, which is a very, very small population. And only 54 women have been executed since the 1900s. So in the past century only 54, but there was still so much misogyny in this case. So her appeal attorneys said that the prosecution used her womanhood against her and they used sexist tropes to display horrendous behavior. So in order to be like, look at how horrible this criminal is. She didn't cook. She didn't clean her house. She didn't go to her kids piano recital. Like these are all very sexist things. Would you put Jeffrey Domara on the stand and be like, he didn't cook. Well he did cook his victims. But like, you get what I'm saying, like it was just a lot.

And so this kind of insinuated to the journey, like, oh, if she doesn't do these things, like why is she a worthy human of being alive? Because, you know, obviously in the prosecutor's mind is what a lot of people are saying is that, well, this is what she's supposed to do and she didn't do any of them. So she's horrendous. So she was sentenced to death. She was found guilty and sentenced to death. Now, she got a new team of attorneys afterwards called

like her conviction appeal team. And they just were trying to appeal it so that she could get a life sentence because she's obviously mentally ill, you know? And they worked for eight years to try to get an appeal, never awarded it, and the execution date was approaching. So fast forward to this year. They submitted a petition to former president Donald Trump and they said after a

lifetime of abuse, which was torturous, she is too mentally ill to be executed and deserves mercy, especially when the system was part of the reason. So how the appeal attorneys phrased it was, you know how Diane, her half-s sister got taken away by CPS after she reported abuse. Yeah. But nothing ever happened to Lisa. Lisa was never saved from the system. Yeah. So they said one sister got taken out and got put into a loving home and was nurtured and had time to heal. The other sister stayed in that situation and it got worse and worse and worse.

And then at the end, she was broken. So since her sentencing, for the first time ever, Lisa was finally getting mental health help. She was on medication, she was talking to psychiatrists to therapists, she still has panic attacks, and she will break out into literal hives if she's alone in a room with a man, even if it's a doctor. She will break out into hives. She's maintained a connection with her children. She's now a grandmother. She accepts full responsibility for her crime. She's not saying she's innocent.

She's not saying like, I deserve to be free. She just doesn't want to die. She doesn't want to be executed. She's expressed incredibly deep remorse for her crimes. Now, a lot of people started supporting this. About 1,000 major former and current prosecutors, like people who work for the government are like, whoa, why do they do that?

Right? Anti-violence advocates, anti-trafficking organizations, advocates for abused and neglected children, mental health advocates, and even just like human right entities that are against the death penalty, have been working to try to get her, clemency, which means that you just get life in prison instead of the death penalty, have been working to try to get her clemency, which means that you just get life in prison instead of the death sentence.

Now Diane Maddingley came out for the first time, her house sister, and she tried to draw awareness to the case. And a lot of reporters asked her if you could talk to President Trump because he is the only one who could really do something right now for you, what would you say? And she said, I would say to President Trump, and I quote, I want you to look at the life that Lisa had led. Look at all the people that I've failed her. I want you to look at all the rape, the torture, the mental abuse, the physical abuse that this woman had endured. And I'm asking you to have compassion on her as a person that has been failed over and over and over again

and to not fail her. He never responded. The government is supposed to be against sex trafficking and a lot of people have issue with this case. And there's so much controversy with this one because you do have a big group of people that's like, she did something so disgusting and fucked up, she deserves to die. But what a lot of people are saying is the government is supposed to be against sex trafficking and crimes against children until that child grows up

and becomes a product of their environment and their trauma and their abuse. And then suddenly they don't care. Suddenly it's like, oh, we cared when you were five, but now that you're like 21 and committing crimes, fuck you. So it's just like, but maybe we should care more than when they were five, but now that you're like 21 and committing crimes, fuck you. So it's just like, but maybe we should care more than when they're five then, because we're part of the reason that this abuse continues, like what's going on, like the system's a little broken, right?

So after a 17 year hiatus, from the United States government on federal death penalty executions, which means, okay, so for 17 years, the federal government has not executed anyone now state governments Have executed people so not to be confused why is her case federal? Because kidnapping as a federal offense. She cannot the baby. Yeah, okay, and like cross state lines too to make it worse So her case was completely a federal case and the Supreme Court justice Sonia Sotomayor case was completely a federal case, and the Supreme Court justice, Sonia Sotomayor, she wrote a scathing letter to the Trump administration saying that there was an expedited

spree of executions. The federal government has put two deaths more than three times as many people as it has had in the previous 60 years. So January 13th, Lisa became the 11th person the Trump administration had federally executed. So for 17 years before the Trump administration, federal executions were put on a stop. Even if you were on death row, they weren't executing you. And a lot of, like that happens in a lot of nations where the death penalty is allowed. A lot of them are just on like crazy hiatuses.

They're just like, yeah, okay, but like, we're probably not gonna kill you. And then they're not gonna put more people on the death row. They're just like, we don't know what to do. Now a survey does show that 55% of Americans believe in capital punishment at this point. So I'm not sure where that's gonna go.

But I know that this current administration and they don't like capital punishment, they want to put it on the halt as well. So the attorney state that she's not in a mental state to even understand what's happening. So they begged to extend the date outs because honestly they were just waiting for Joe Biden to hit office. They straight up told reporters later, they were like, we just needed eight more days for Biden to be in office and we have 100% faith that Biden would have given her clemency.

Like he would have been like, okay, like life in prison, but like don't fucking kill her. And so they were just like, please, please, what made it even worse is that both of our attorneys live out of the state that Lisa was being held in prison and they both got COVID. So they couldn't travel to go talk to her. And so they said, hey, because both of our attorneys who've been working with her for eight years have COVID, can you please extend the date? And they said, no. And so a lot of news networks were trying to get, you know, because politics near like yesterday was wild. And so a lot of news reporters were trying to get some headlines.

So they were approaching these attorneys of Lisa Montgomery trying to get them to say horrendous things about Trump, right? To be like, yeah, this is evil. This is evil. This is evil. But this is what the attorneys had to say. How do you do that? This man has your client's life in his hands

and with the stroke of a pen, he can save her life. And wouldn't that be a great way to change the story that's going out about you? But he doesn't that be a great way to change the story that's going out about you? But he doesn't even have the decency to tell you that he's aware of what you filed. So there was no acknowledgement from the Trump administration that they were fighting for this woman's life. Like there was no, hey, like thanks for filing, but like she's still going to die. Like there was nothing. I see. They just kept ignoring the attorneys, kept ignoring the press, kept ignoring all of the advocates, right? And so they just needed eight more

days for Biden to be in office. But it didn't come. It went to the Supreme Court and Scotis was six to three. And that became another huge controversy because people just believe that after certain people have taken scotists, like positions in scotists, it's all in favor of certain policies. So they weren't gonna give her any more days, even though both the attorneys had COVID-19. When they brought her into the room, press that were allowed to witness it,

they said that she was bewildered. She had no idea where she was. She was so confused and scared. She was like, where am I? Like, what's going on? And she was having a disassociative episode from stress of being taken to a new facility. She was scared. And a lot of people have argued that it's your right to have a spiritual advisor in the room during the execution, which a lot of crazy fucking criminals have had, like their little preachers there, their pastors there, you know, and they would not allow it for Lisa.

And Lisa really wanted her spiritual advisor to sing me. I think it was like Jesus loves me or something while she was being executed prior to this, and they did not allow it. So she was executed January 13th, which brings into question a lot of things. Because in 2002, there was a Supreme Court case called Atkins versus Virginia, where they said that it was cruel and unusual punishment to execute a person who was mentally disabled. But they believed that at the time, you know, she was not very coherent, I guess. So it's just been a lot. Now Now on the other side of the

spectrum I'm like I'm not making any strong opinions because I just think cases like this there's no way to have a right opinion. There's no like oh this is the right answer because because I'm about to tell you so the baby survived and she was named Victoria Joe Stin't. Now Bobby's family they feel like they're a little forgotten in all of this. All Bobby wanted to be was a mom and she was so excited but also think about that Bobby's own mother found her like that. The police officers who went there that day are still traumatized and they said that if they could just bring every person that are

fighting so hard for Lisa into that room and see what they saw it would be a different story. A school friend who was really close to Bobby Joe, she had an interview with reporters and she said reading descriptions of Lisa's abuse, I read it yeah, but it's mostly just makes me angry. It's not as if all the other people in Skidmore led, ideally, lives free from abuse and poverty and other destructive strategies. When Bobby was murdered, I was in rehab for drug usage. I missed the funeral because of that. I'm sick of hearing about Lisa Montgomery and what she went through, and it's never about what my friend went through. I get these images in my head of what Bobby Joe's mother finding her daughter that way and it's not fair. That is the story of Lisa Montgomery. Wow.

I mean, it's sad because I get everyone. I get everyone but her original defense attorneys. I mean, I'm not saying I get Lisa. I'm not saying I get it. And nothing yet, nothing happened to Lisa's stepfather and all of those. They're still just walking around town. I know. It's crazy.

We did a YouTube video similar to this about a guy by the name of a lastkin Avenger, Jason Vukovic. Um, his is obviously not as serious because all he did was break into sex offenders' homes and bonk them on the head with a hammer but he got way more time than all of those registered sex offenders who had crimes against children combined for bonking them on the head with hammers. Okay well I mean that sounds really scary but it's insane. This has been a highly requested case. It's a highly controversial case, a highly political case.

I mean, even if you take the politics out of it, like even if you take out the Trump administration, which is just always a controversy, I think it's just so complex because, yeah, we don't believe in the death penalty. We don't want her to die if she's getting the mental help that she needs. I mean, we think that she deserves life in prison, right? But at the same time, like,

imagine reading these headlines and being Bobby Joe's friend or her family. Like, how much pain that is to be like, wow, these people are fighting so hard for this person. Who just, you know? So, I don't know. I hope you guys enjoyed today's really dark mini-sode. That wasn't that mini, and I will see you guys

in the next episode. Bye. Hope you guys enjoyed today's really dark mini-sode, that wasn't that mini, and I will see you guys in the next episode. Bye!