Rotten Mango - #37- The Waterbed Murder (Case of Maddie Clifton & Josh Phillips)

Episode Date: February 7, 2021

Melissa was sick of telling her teenage son to clean his room. For the past week, there had been a disgusting stench coming from it.  She had a theory - his waterbed was leaking and was causing the smell. She lifted it up hoping to find the source. But instead, she found a dead little girl.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rambles. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or pay to description starting at 12.99 per month. But it being but a booboo.

No, no, it's not our intro song. Welcome to the second mini-sode ever listen. I have a revelation that I need to talk about, which is the fact that, did you know I didn't know that teenage boys' rooms had a distinct smell until I grow up? When I was a teenager, going into teenage boys' rooms, I just thought every person, every household had a different smell. I was always too self-conscious about my house smelling like garlic and Korean food and kimchi, that when I went to anybody else's house, I was like, oh, this is just a different smell. Like this house has its own smell. But then, then I got into my 20s,

and now I know that if you go into a teenage boys room, it's not because that's their house's smell. Teenage boys rooms just have a fucking smell. So you're telling me a lot of teenage boys have their own rooms? Oh, okay. All right, Tota's on China. Oh, that's a lot.

So today we're talking about how one woman, a mom went into her teenage boys room and she noticed a distinct smell. Let's get into Jacksonville, Florida. We've been doing a lot of Florida cases. I'm sorry. It's not that I wanted to. It just happened. Okay.

And this is the story of Madeline Maddie Ray Clifton and Josh Phillips. What do you think it is? Causing, you know, you need points. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no Getting Florida probably hasn't as much crime as any other state. I just think after some weird ass reports of like alligator wrestling and some stuff like that. Now I think anytime there is a case that takes place in Florida, I feel like oh Florida, Florida. It was just like kind of hypes itself up. It would be like Florida, you know, but like how many people are really, really wrestling gators over there. Everyone's like every day, every day, bro, it's that Florida flow, okay? We're talking about Maddie Ray Clifton today and Josh Phillips. This has been highly requested to do for like a YouTube video But I wanted to save it for him in a so because it gets so incredibly gruesome And I need to go into all of the details for this one. Otherwise, it just won't make sense. So Maddie Ray Clifton

She was eight years old at the time that this takes place and it takes place in November. November of 1998. Don't click out just because it didn't happen yesterday. So Maddie, she was considered a tomboy. She loved all sports. She was a super tough kid. She was toughest nails. That's what everyone said. She was a bit of a badass. Like people said that she would be playing football one minute and then go to ballet class the next minute like she kind of did it all she would not she would take piano classes she was vibrant she was just well rounded I mean she was probably the most badass eight year old that there was at the time of eight year olds in the history of eight year olds and she lived in this cute little cold asack now Jacksonville Florida I mean I believe from what I know is a pretty safe town, especially this area that she was living in was pretty safe. She lived in a cold

asac. So if you guys aren't familiar with the suburbs, you guys are like, I'm, I've only lived in New York City. So a cold asac is when you get to the end of a residential street filled with houses. It's just like a little round circle, like a little round about filled with houses. It's like probably the funnest area to play because most of the parents let you play in the cold to sack because you can see all of the cars that come back. Is that what cold to sack means? It just means a dead end? Yeah, a cold to sack. Yeah. Wow. Really? I am today years old. And I learned cold to sack. I thought I always thought Kolda sack is just like a little suburban area. No, it's like in the suburbs that little dead end.

But it has to have like houses, you know? It's not like someone can just drive by in a white van and just be like, hey, come into my van, right? Like you would see it all. And so Maddie, she comes home from school that day and she starts practicing her piano. Like I'm telling you, she's the coolest eight-year-old I would never do that and it's a super normal day when all of a sudden a guy by the name of Larry Grisham comes to the door knocks on the door and he says hey do you want to go um punt some golf balls? I don't know what that means but you're just like in a field and you just hit golf balls I guess right? And so she's like yeah sounds good she

tells her parents she's like I'm gonna go put some golf balls with Larry. I'll be right back. Yeah, now what's very interesting is like Larry. I thought he was maybe, you know, a friend, you know, maybe a 10 year old, nine year old. He's 45 years old. Who is he? Larry is a neighbor, a neighborhood neighbor, but he's 45 years old, asking the Nate world to hang out. And the parents say cool.

I guess so the parents were just like, okay, just make sure you're home for dinner. And so she comes back almost immediately after like within like 30 to 30 minutes to an hour and she says, Hey, mom, like, I need some more golf balls. So her mom's like, okay, here's more golf balls. And then she runs out. And that will be the last time her mom ever sees her. So 620 PM comes around and she looked like and Maddie's mom.

She just like sticks her head out the window because you know, this is like back in the 90s where I guess like people did that. I mean, I grew up like riding around in coldessacks and she just started screaming for her kids to come home. She was just like, Maddie, Jessica. And usually when they're out, they can hear that because they're supposed to stay within like a certain radius of the coldessacks so they'd be like, oh my mom's calling me for dinner, like I gotta go, bye, right? And they would usually run immediately home.

So she calls out for her kids and the older sister Jessica, she was playing with neighbors, she ran in almost immediately. Now Maddie wasn't with her, which is a little bit abnormal, usually they'll meet up somewhere or they were hanging out at the same place and they'll walk in together so she's like, okay, where's your little sister Maddie? And Jessica's like, I don't know, I haven't seen Maddie in a while I thought she was home she's like what what do you mean and she's like I don't know maybe she's playing in someone's house where she's not supposed to she's supposed to be out where I can see her like on the front lawn

like what do you mean she's playing in someone's house like what are you talking about and so they're like okay it's okay remain calm like all we have to do is if she's playing in someone's house go to all of the neighbor's houses and be like Maddie it's time for dinner right so they're like, okay, it's okay. Remain calm. Like all we have to do is if she's playing in someone's house, go to all of the neighbor's houses and be like, Matty, it's time for dinner, right? So she's like, it's okay, everybody stay calm. They stay calm, they go from door to door, they're knocking on the door, they're screaming Matty's name, they're like, Matty, are you here? And eventually the whole neighborhood starts helping them search because they're like, listen, we're going to be a part of this. So they start searching and searching, and people were just, I mean, it was intense. People grabbed their flashlights. It was getting dark outside.

They had eventually placed a call to 911 and reported her missing because she's eight years old, you know. Did they go to the 45 year old dude? Yeah, and where was he? He was home. He was home? Yeah, and he was like, man, he's not here. She left to go get more golf balls and she never came back. Oh, yeah.

And so, I mean, do we believe him? We'll see. And so everyone grabs their flashlights. They had called 911. The cops had come. and she never came back. Oh. Yeah, and so I mean, do we believe him? We'll see. And so everyone grabs their flashlights. They had called 911. The cops had come. I mean, it was a full-on search. Jessica, this is so sad.

She was writing around on her bike, calling for Maddie's name. And a lot of the neighborhood kids were helping Josh Phillips. He was helping. He was a 14-year-old neighbor, and he was particularly close with Maddie, apparently, which, I think it's a little weird because he is 14 and she's 8 and it's not like their family members, but we'll get into that.

So the search goes on for hours and hours and hours. And finally, it's like way too dark and now everyone just goes back into their house, they go to sleep and the sheriff's department the next day, they were like, we're going to go all out for this because you're talking about an eight year old girl missing in her neighborhood. If anything is going to cost a a suburban panic it is this. So they start freaking out. They start going door-to-door the sheriff's department and say hey where were you last night? What were you doing around this time? Can we

search your house? And so most of the people were like yeah I mean obviously we know her. She's our neighbor but we were already home and we were getting dinner ready. Like it's we don't know where she is. Like how would we know know where she is and usually it's kind of hard to kidnap someone who lives three doors down So immediately the police are like okay Well who the fork is Larry Grisham, and why was he playing golf with the Nate your old if he's 45 So they immediately start interviewing him and all of the neighborhood people said he really likes hanging out with children I mean, I don't know what it is Maybe there is a meaning behind it.

Maybe he's always wanted a family, but then he couldn't have children, or maybe he just had a kid and then lost the kid and then no one knew about it, and now he just loves kids. But he did have a record. He did have a criminal record of a lot of DUIs and some auto thefts. There were two counts of sexual battery. Both of those charges were dropped, but there was no indication that it was against a child. So yeah, it was interesting. He's still hanging out with these kids, and he was interviewed, and his entire story to the police was, what

do you mean? So we were playing golf. This is my house and my neighbor's house. Now we have this little patch of land in the middle of our houses, and that's why I like to little, like, punt golf balls. And Maddie was there with me and we were out in the open. Any of the neighbors could have just stuck their head out their window or their door or through their backyard and they could have seen us just out in the open. Like it wasn't like I was in my fence yard with her. I wasn't in the house with her, you know. And this was actually only a few doors down from Maddie's house.

So Maddie went to go back to get some more golf balls and she never came back. On the place where like you don't think that's weird. Well no, because it's probably dinner time, the sun was setting so her parents were probably like no, you're not getting more golf balls like it's time for dinner. Now they were like okay well you're gonna have to take a polygraph test because we don't really trust you Larry Grisham 45 year old who hangs out with eight year olds and so they give him a polygraph and he does not pass. He fails the polygraph.

Now I mean you guys know how I feel about polygraphs. I find them to be completely unreliable, but, um, but like this is why I'm not a detective. So they search his house nine times, nine times, because of all of this suspicious circumstances. And after nine house searches, 20 separate interviews, he even gave up his DNA willingly and he had an alibi for the rest of the night.

No matter how much the police wanted it to be Larry Grisham, it's not Larry Grisham. Like it wasn't gonna be Larry Grisham, it's not him. They searched his house nine times. I mean, also the arrow, I mean, not the arrow for something like this to happen, right? She went home and he lives a couple houses down. Yeah. I mean, you're talking about that couple houses, no? Right.

It's just so creepy. Yeah. And so Maddie's parents were especially confused because I think, you know, you maybe hope that, you don't hope that she's kidnapped, but you'd rather that than her be dead, right? So I think maybe they were like, okay, well, she's going to come out, but she alive,

and she dead, like, who would do this? Now we really don't know because everyone had their bets on Larry, like, what's going on? And the police had to be stationed all around this suburban there, but heard because they didn't know if they were coming after the family in particular, or was it children being targeted? Was it was Jessica next? Like, everyone was uneasy. They just didn't know why someone would abduct Maddie. Like what happened to Maddie? How does this even make sense? So these huge searches, when I say huge, I'm talking huge, they searched the nearby woods, the swamps, they got cadaver dogs sniffing around all the neighbor's houses, they had the US Army reserve come in and

go through manholes to see if she had fallen into the manholes somehow. It was really intense. And so they started posting yellow ribbons everywhere to symbolize we're looking for Maddie. The whole community was rallying together and putting her posters up everywhere. It was intense, but still, no leads. Like the whole town of Jacksonville was talking about Maddie.

I mean, the whole nation, I believe, was talking about Maddie at this point, but no leads. So the Clifton's decided to go on this huge press tour where they begged, begged on national television to get Maddie back. They offered $50,000 reward for anyone that would lead to her coming back home. They said that they could even consider doubling it if they could get it cleared somehow and they just wanted her back home. Please we just want Maddie back home right. They had 10 billboards up of Maddie's face on there. There were T-shirts. People were wearing T-shirts to the grocery store

with Maddie's face on them. Wow. So it's like, how do you, like, let's say you did abduct Maddie, like what's next now, right? I mean, everyone was looking for her. Now, about a week after this took place, about a week after she went missing, about a week after she went missing.

Melissa Phillips, Josh Phillips is mom. She was getting ready for work one day, and Josh had just left for school. And she had another frustrating thing that she was dealing with. Obviously, she's frustrated for the community for Maddie being missing, but she was incredibly frustrated that her son, her 14 year old son, could not clean his room. All week, she had said, you need to clean your room. It's so disgusting in there. How do you live like that?

It smells, it smells wretched in there. How do you even make sense like this happen? Okay, what's wrong with you, teenage boy? I mean, it was just an absolutely disgusting odor. Now, she said this time was particularly the most pungent odor that she had ever smelled in her entire life, but he did have three pet birds in his room So you know pets can make a lot of smells and so she just thought maybe he wasn't cleaning up after that

Maybe one of them had like an infection who knows right so she went in there armed and ready She brought in trash bags gloves. She was like I'm ready to go she got that The sun has left for school and she was like I'm just gonna do. She got that. Wait, the sun has left. For school. And she was like, I'm just gonna do it for him because for this kid, he doesn't know how to clean his room. And this smell is just permeating through the whole house. And so she's like, let me get my trash bags. Let me get my gloves. Let me get my little for breeze.

And she starts deep cleaning the shit out of that room. When she notices a damp spot on the floor, on the corner of his bed. Now this isn't that alarming because he has a water bed, which I don't know how those work. I just think that that's crazy. Water beds. I don't know.

Is it like a bag of water, like a mattress shape that they build with water? I believe, I believe so. I heard like back in the days that they promoted, it's like the best thing for your body. They also promoted smoking for asthma. Yeah, and they're like, so good for your health. And we'll be young.

I mean, I guess it makes sense though. I don't think so. You're selling me right now. Oh hell no. I'm supposed to buy a water bed. All I know is that every time we rented an apartment, they were like, you're not allowed to have a water bed. And I would always think to myself, who the fuck

has a water bed? I mean, that sounds like really crazy. And so she's like, okay, his water bed is freaking leaking. Oh shit. So she thought maybe, okay, this makes sense. The smell was so pungent, maybe the water inside of this water bed had been kind of mild doing. Like, is it molding, is something leaking

and creating this mildew in there? That's the smell. She touched the corner of the mattress and it was absolutely soaked. So she was like, oh shoot It's it's leaking. She lifts up the mattress a little bit and the water bed was actually on like a box spring And then there was a little bit of a gap and then it was the water bed and it was in a bed frame So it wasn't just like a water bed on the ground

So there is a like a spring yeah like a box spring like you know Yeah, and then there is like a little bit of gap because I guess the water bed didn't fit nicely on top. So there was just a little bit of like a gap between the box spring and then the water bed or I don't know if that's how water beds work. There's a gap and it's a bed frame, right? And so she's like, oh man, she lifts it up a little bit

and she sees that there's like a white sock underneath this water bed mattress and she's like listen Josh How does he even get socks in here? Like what is wrong with teenage boys? Absolutely discussing she puts her hand in trying to pull out this white sock so she can throw it into the hamper Because she's about to run the laundry, you know moms are efficient. She's like I got a I can't forget the sock And so she's pulling on the sock and it won't come out so she's there it's yanking it harder still won't come out which is crazy because it's not like the sock is so deep into the water bed like she can pretty much see the sock how does the sock not come out and then that's when she noticed some black

electrical tape that was kind of holding part of the bed frame together which she thought was weird because the bed frame's not broken like why would he need this tape maybe he put the tape on weird because the bed frame's not broken. Like, why would he need this tape? Maybe he put the tape on there because the bed was leaking. I mean, it was just really odd. Like, there was no reason for this tape to be there. And so she's like, okay, it was probably he was trying to fix a leak and didn't want to talk to me about it.

So she pulls the tape away and it gives her better clearance to pull on the sock. And that's when she grabs the sock and she feels something else and she's like okay this is creepy this is some like paranormal activity I'm not fucking with this I need to go get a flashlight so she runs out of the room gets a flashlight comes back in and she lifts up the mattress turns on the flashlight and she said her words of describing it was like she couldn't believe what she saw but she knew exactly what she saw. She'd found the missing little girl. Oh my god. From across the street.

That's fucking horrified. I know. Oh shit. So she immediately calls her husband, you know. And she leaves a frantic voicemail. She's like, please come home. It's an emergency. Please come home. Now he doesn't immediately call her back and she wanted to call 911, but she was like, they're gonna take so long and she was frantic, you know, what do you mean they're gonna take so long?

I mean, it just didn't make sense because there's so many police officers stationed outside Right now because remember like I said the police were all up on that street all week just looking for Maddie They were giving protection then so she's not ready to turn no she just didn't want to call everyone she's like it's gonna be easier if I just run downstairs and get a police officer because they're literally parked outside the house you know just down the street so she immediately just starts running she runs down the stairs runs to the nearest police officer and she was they said that they were sitting in their cart now this dude's on surveillance duty and I don't

know how the police hierarchy works but I have a feeling that you're pretty low on the hierarchy if you're doing surveillance duty. Like you're not really like doing detective duty, you're doing surveillance, right? You're just like sitting in your car, drinking coffee, making sure nobody like, I don't know, kills anyone in your little per-fuel version, right? And so he sees her running out of the house crying totally just like a mess, bawling her eyes out, can barely talk, and she just keeps screaming, you need to come to my house, you need to come to my house,

I found something in my house and you need to come see it. And he was like, um, listen, I'm on surveillance duty, like I'm not a homicide detective, like what is wrong with you? And she's like, you need to come into my house right now,

like you need to see it. I can't tell you what it is, but like you need to come into my house. And so he gets scared, he need to see it. I can't tell you what it is, but like, you need to come into my house. And so he gets scared. He calls for backup immediately. And together, three detectives win into the house because imagine you're like, well, what's in your house. And she's like, I can't tell you.

I can't talk about it. Like, you need to come into my house. I mean, you're gonna think you're gonna die, right? Even as a police officer, you're like, this crazy lady probably poisoned her lasagna and is gonna feed it to me, like, something's wrong with her. And so they get pulled into the house and they start looking and she points them into

Josh's room. And right when they open the door, you know what they always say, the police immediately smelt the smell. And she kept pointing under the water bed and she said, like, I gotta go, like I can't do this, I gotta go, I can't watch this. And they go, they lift up the water bed and they could clearly see two little feet in the corner wearing two little white socks And so they turn around and they ask her, ma'am, where is your son? She said I think he's on the bus to school probably if not already at school

And then it became a shit show. I mean, I'm talking like so many cop cars outside their house cops race to the school to pull them out to arrest him. I mean the dad he comes home, he just sees cop cars everywhere in front of his house now instead of you know Maddie Clifton's house and he's confused. He's not allowed in the house. And the mom, she looked and she just said that she kept looking over after Clifton house thinking like, as of right now they still have hope.

But like, I know that she's dead. You know, I think she just felt for them. Like, right now they don't know yet what I know, which is that their daughter's not coming back. What kind of feeling does she's feeling right now, I wonder? I bet. I mean, I'm not even a parent. Yeah.

Well, I was thinking, like, do most parents want to have a conversation with their kid first? You know what I mean? What if the son comes back and say, oh no, we were playing and then she fell, and then she tripped and did. That's exactly what he says. You psycho-bath.

Are you serious? Yeah. That's exactly what he says. You psycho-pap? Are you serious? Yeah, that's exactly what he- I mean, okay. Okay, go ahead, tell the story. If there was like a murder weapon? I don't want to spoil it. Yeah, shit. No, if there was like a murder weapon or something, I'd probably talk to my kid first.

Like if they had like a knife with blood on it in there. But if they had a full-on decomposing body, I would call the cops. I would if it's one of those like how to get away with murder. So I'm trying to kill you and you self-defense and boom. Listen, if you're 14 and 8-year-old girl tries to kill you and you kill her because she tried to kill you. You've watched Orphan before, have you? That was like a 34-year-old woman.

Right. We're trying to be an eight year old girl I don't know I don't think I would talk to my kid yeah okay but I'm also like not a parent yeah so I don't know I feel like most parents don't they have a in like I don't know I don't know yeah I'm gonna be glad that she turned in this yeah yeah the right thing right but I mean I it's probably really hard and so Josh's ad comes rushing home. He's freaking out, everybody's freaking out.

And at the same time, police go to Maddie's house. They knock on the door and they sit them down. And the family said that immediately they knew that it was going to be bad because they had seen police in and out of that street. Like there were so many cop cars coming in. And when they knocked on the door, their faces just kind of said it was bad news. So when they told them the dad immediately said Maddie's dad immediately said

Where did you find her and the police said across the street? That's bad, huh? Yeah, they were so Josh Phillips. Let's talk about him His full name is Joshua Earl Patrick Phillips and he was the only child to Steve and Melissa Phillips and he had he did have half siblings But they weren't living in the house at the time So he was really just like an only child and as a baby everyone said that he was super happy literally always smiling Just active curious Um, he moved a couple times and he made friends easily the only issue was that Steve was a bit of an alcoholic and he was incredibly strict.

Now I couldn't find any definitive evidence that there was any physical abuse or anything like that but it seems like there was emotional and verbal abuse. So Josh claims that the one time that he had walked into his dad screaming in the parents room, right? He had walked in on them and his dad's fist was immediately going through a wall at the time. And he saw his dad punch a hole in the wall and ever since then he was just completely terrified of his own dad. Just never knew what to do like he just was kind of like a tiger parent I guess. So I'm sure there was just a lot with that. Now at 14

years old he was, there's different reports. So all of the official sources that I could find, they all said that he wasn't a loner. But when I go on Reddit, a lot of people said, oh, I went to like middle school with him, and he was kind of a loner. I mean, he was kind of quiet and kind of shy. Now, like news reporters, they claim that he was, he had a ton of friends, he was popular almost.

And I don't know if they were doing that to make it seem even crazier that he's not like that serial killer trope of like hurting animals when he's 14. It just seems like he was normal. Like it didn't seem like there was any huge red flags or anything too great about him. He was not considered rebellious. He was just a normal dude.

Now Maddie's parents already knew about him, not just because he lived down the street though. So Maddie's parents had forbid him from entering their house ever again. Now why would parents do that to a 14 year old, okay? Well that's because one day they came home and they found Josh Phillips in Jessica's room. Jessica's 11 years old. So you think it okay, this is a romance. This is a forbidden romance. Romeo and Juliet. No, Jessica wasn't home. He was not invited in. He had snuck into the house, and he had stolen a photo of Jessica out of a picture frame of her in her gymnastics leotard

doing a back bend. This was one month prior to the murder. Now, at the time, they didn't know that he was stealing that photo. Later, the police found it taped his headboard and covered up with like pillows and stuff. So he was, he kind of had an obsession with Jessica Clifton, the 11-year-old, and it was really, really odd. And on another occasion, the Clifton grandma, she had heard that he was talking about sex in front of the two girls. You know, like when you're young, you're just understanding sex, and you kind of want to like show off the information you gained and sex said well He was doing it but in front of two young girls like he's 14 Jessica and Maddie are 11 and 8 and he's talking about sex in front of them

And the grandma overheard and was like you are banned from coming into this house. What is wrong with you? You know don't ever come back here and so they had even told Joshua's parents about what happened And so they also banned him from playing with them because they were like, we don't want all this trouble. Like we don't want any weird accusations. Like just play with people your own age, Josh, you don't need to be friends with them. Like it's fine. And then eventually, of course, both sides kind of loosened up because they're just kids, you know. And so it just seemed to like, I think Maddie's parents probably thought it was a little bit harsh to be like, you can never come here because he was 14.

Now, investigators did find some alarming things in his computer. They found violent sexual graphic pornography, as well as child porn in his room. Now, allegedly, he would break into the Clifton House on multiple different occasions to steal pictures of Jessica, specifically in her gymnastics uniform. That was like his thing, disgusting. Now, there are some reports that say that he had a made holes in the wall where there were cross-bases in Jessica's room.

Remember Daniel Laplante that we talked about in a YouTube video where he hid in the walls and then dressed up as his victim's dead mother to haunt them because he was disgusting. They think that he was doing some shit like that, but I couldn't completely confirm, you know? So, that's just an allegation that's out there. So they arrest Josh and he immediately just like admits to everything.

They were just like, hey Josh, so your mom found Maddie's body in your room. And he was just like, oh shit. And his parents were with him while he was being questioned. And then dad was like, you just have to tell them everything, okay? Like you have to tell the police everything that's happened. So Josh says, okay, well, I guess I'll start with the day of the murder. So Maddie said that she was gonna come over to his house because she wanted to play baseball with him. But he said that he had a 22 item long list of chores that he had to do.

22 item long list. So this is again, a lot of people are saying, well, this is why he said that his parents were like too strict because, I mean, 22 item list is pretty long. That's so specific. What is it? No. Like, put your dishes away, is one.

Wash your laundry. No, wash your dishes, is one. Wash your forks is one. Yes. Spoons is one. Yeah, I think, wash your dishes is one, wash your forks is one, wash your spoons is one. Yeah, I think it was like that probably. And so his parents always give him a list of chores to do because when he gets home from that time for them to get home, it's like a couple of hours

and they just don't want him to get into trouble. And so they think that if they give him a list of chores, they can kind of control him because he's a 14 year old kid. So a lot of people said this confirms the strict dad theory, but he didn't really want to do his chores once he got home. So around 4.22 to 457 PM, they were able to verify that he was browsing various pornography sites, many of them involving a graphic torture.

So like BDSM, but probably a little bit more intense watching those videos. Now around 5.15 PM, He went outside to finish his chore list He was like oh shit. Well, I guess I got to finish what I was doing and he starts breaking up the leaves This is what he says then he claims that Maddie came over and was like hey like I want to play baseball I want to play baseball So this kind of matches up with the timeline where they were saying she went to go get golf balls But instead of getting golf balls she like went to Josh's house instead of going back to Larry Grisham's, which is an odd thing to do. So he said, okay, fine. You can play baseball with me in my backyard until my dad comes home.

But once he comes home, you gotta skidaddle because I don't want to get in trouble because remember, I'm not supposed to hang out with you. I'm 14 and you're 8. And so they were like, okay, so he starts hitting the baseball. Now there was about only a four feet space to hit the ball around, which is not a lot. I mean, it's a baseball, right? And so he's got his bat and he said that he's a strong swinger. You know, he's always wanted to be a baseball player. So he claims that he swung the baseball hit her on the head near her left eye and she had this huge just bloody mark her forehead, and she falls down and starts screaming bloody fucking murder. Okay, this is what he claims. Now, he gets super freaked out,

because he's like, oh my god, my dad's about to come home. And so he said that his first initial reaction was to clean the blood off of the ball, which is weird. That makes zero sense. Well, she's crying and screaming. And then he put the ball in the house. And then he came back outside outside and she's still screaming. And so he didn't know what else to do with her,

but to drag her into the house and then up the stairs into his room, he said that he was so scared of his dad, that he put his hand over her mouth to tell her to stop crying, which only terrified her more. So she started screaming some more. So then he freaked out so he grabbed his baseball bat and hit her in the head with it But she kept screaming and crying still and so he kept bashing her on the head with the baseball bat Until she stopped screaming now he realized though

She was still alive because she was whimpering and moaning. And so he went and grabbed his pocket knife and stabbed her twice in the neck. That's fucking murder. What the fuck is he doing? And then it gets worse. Then he was like, what do I do with her body? So he opens up the side panel of his bed frame and sticks her, slides her in between the box spring

and the water bed. And puts her in there. He had blood everywhere all over him. So he goes into a shower, he cleans up, and as he's doing this, he hears Maddie under his bed. I don't know if she like moved. I don't know if she made a sound. And so he took her back out, stabbed her nine times in the chest until she stopped, and then put her back under the bed, and pushed her in with his feet. He even said, like, I pushed her in with my feet because, like, you know, he didn't want blood everywhere, I guess. And 5' 35 p.m. parents come home, they eat dinner together. Now, the police, they're like, OK, maybe, maybe your story

makes sense in theory. But we need to ask you a very important question, Josh. Why was she naked from the waist down? Josh claims. Well, remember when I said that I was dragging naked from the waist down. Josh claims. Well, remember when I said that I was dragging her up the stairs and like into my room? Her shorts and her underwear like fell off while I was dragging her.

Her shorts and her underwear fell off. Now what's even crazier is that earlier in the interview, they asked, well, what about her shoes? And he claimed that he took off her shoes when he was pushing her into the water bed. So now you're saying that her shorts and her underwear completely came off over her shoes. Yeah. Because you drag her upstairs to your room. I mean that's just really confusing don't you think? And also her shirt was pulled up over her chest. There were no stab wounds in the fabric of her shirt.

And she was stabbed nine times in the chest. Also she was naked when she was... Like her shirt was pulled up. Pulled up while he was stabbing. Which like, it's just weird. Now obviously I don't think that they could do any like sexual assault testing because she was really decomposed by that point.

I mean she had spent a week under that water bed and it was really really bad, but they did find semen. Now here's the thing though, they couldn't directly definitively say that he assaulted her because he was watching porn. So it could have been that he had ejaculated after watching porn and then went outside and then Maddie came inside and then somehow it was a transfer of semen You know, but I personally think it wasn't I think it was Something nasty. I think he was really nasty and so he said that right after this happened You know Mrs. Clifton was going door-to-door just screaming for Maddie

You know she was frantic and the dad was like hey you need to go look for Maddie with everyone else So he grabbed his flashlight and just went around pretending to look for Maddie even you know, she was frantic and the dad was like, hey, you need to go look for Maddie with everyone else. So he grabbed his flashlight and just went around pretending to look for Maddie, even though he damn well knew that Maddie was under his water bed. And they were like, and then what, you know, like, what's the plan, Josh? Yeah. And he said, why don't we really have a plan? He slept all week on that bed, all seven nights. He slept on the bed.

He never slept on the couch. He never slept on the ground. I thought you were slept on the bed he never slept on the couch he never slept on the ground I thought you were gonna say he never slept better and he kept putting a tape on the bed frame because he started smelling her and he thought somehow if he could close up the gaps better he wouldn't be able to smell her and he would light incense he got like just bottles of a breeze on for breeze and just spraying them throughout the room and he had absolutely no plan. So he knew the day's gonna come. Yeah and they asked her like why did you kill her? And he said yeah I don't know maybe I need some help to figure it out. So the crime scene. There were

air fresheners and incense all over the place. There was a baseball bat, there was the leather man knife that he had, tennis shoes stained in Maddie's blood, so there was like Maddie's blood droplets on those tennis shoes, that he had one of her missing posters hanging up on his bookshelf. So that leads me to believe that he's kind of a sick and twisted kid. Like I don't really think that this is one of those

instances where he was so scared of his dad. I truly think it was something dark. There was blood on his ceiling fan that was about eight feet off of the floor And DNA analysis showed that it was Maddie's blood So this means that these were either really hard blows or just really intense attacks like this was no longer I'm so scared of my dad. I just need you to be quiet like he's explaining like this is what are you talking about? Yeah, like none I don't think his story had it adds up. Yeah I'm so scared of my dad, I just need you to be quiet. Like he's explaining like this is. What are you talking about? Yeah. Like, I don't think his story had it adds up. Yeah. So it kind of like adds up with the actual injuries,

but nothing else. Like the actual thought process doesn't add up. Some of the steps don't add up. But like the only thing that adds up is like, yeah, you did stab her in the chest nine times, you know? But nothing else added up. And they also found the photo of Jessica that was stolen from her house.

They also found pairs of panties that were taken in for DNA. They, I don't think, I don't know who's they were, but they were taken in for DNA evidence. Now the trial, this is where it gets crazy. They wanted to try him as an adult. Now Florida will usually give the death penalty for something like this. I'm telling you Florida and Texas do be wild and sometimes with that capital punishment,

okay? But, because of his age, they said the max that he could get is life without the possibility of parole. We're taking capital punishment off the table on this one, which I completely agree with. Now, the medical examiner confirmed that there were three separate attacks. The first time where she was hit on the head repeatedly with a bat. The second time was the stabbing in the neck, the two stabs in the neck. Then there was stabbing in the chest, but he couldn't confirm the exact order. So, I mean, he's just saying

that these happened, but I can't exactly tell you if his story is even chronologically correct. Now the debate where the chest stab wounds were post death. That's what they said. You know, that's what the medical examiner said. I'm pretty sure that the chest stab wounds were post death. That's what they said. You know, that's what the medical examiner said. I'm pretty sure that the chess stab wounds, those nine stab wounds, were after she was dead already. It was post mortem, right? But he's claiming that she made a noise under the bed.

Maybe he felt like he heard something. So some people think either he felt like he heard something. Some people think that he just wanted to do a little more. Why? Because he's really into torture from his search history. So I mean, it's just not for debate. I mean, I don't think it's like a huge debate, but it's just kind of interesting, right?

Like a moody. Or maybe it could be his psyche that's like so paranoid now that he just like can't live with it, right? And the injuries were consistent with what he was saying but what was the motive because none of that makes sense how do you hit a girl with a baseball and then now you're like well now I have to kill you yeah and put you under my water bed and take off the pants yeah and take off your pants I mean none of this makes sense yeah so a lot of the trial was focused on like the motive right right? Because it just didn't make sense.

Obviously no one's debating the injuries. No one's debating the murder. Like the murder happened. He confessed everyone knew that it was him. But it was just the motive. Like is he really saying that his parents were so strict that he did this? Or is it because he's watching this violent nasty porn

and he's just kind of sick and twisted and wanted to act it out on his own. Is he just like a crazy predator? Now, it got a little bit confusing because a doctor did find allegedly by frontal lesions on his frontal lobes, which a lot of the times can explain violent outbursts and teenagers because the frontal lobe hasn't fully developed yet. And if you've got these lesions there, it can just like make you a little bit sporadic and violent and unpredictable and they wanted to use this evidence in court to be like, hey This is probably why this happened. You think that this isn't what something a normal 14 year old would do But he's not normal his brain's not normal, but the doctor who found that didn't want to testify

So they just like didn't use that evidence. He lived far away and he was like, I just normally, I don't know dude I'm not gonna testify so they never brought it up in court and so it made he really just it was not a good look There was no good excuse at all. So the jury found him guilty They sentenced and he was 15 years old at this point by the way and they sentenced him life in prison without the possibility of parole. And the judge told him, I do not perceive you to be a child. Your monster act makes you an adult. And he also went on to like really roast his ass and like pan fry him. He said, I am certain on your judgment day, you, Joshua Earl Patrick Phillips, will be given a harsher sentence than I can ever impose. So he's just saying like you, you're sick and asking you're going to hell, dude. Yeah. So it was really intense. Now what's even

crazier is that you know how we were saying like that doesn't make sense, his story doesn't make sense. Pretty much this is what we knew as the public. And then later he tried to appeal his sentence. And this is what the knew as the public. And then later he tried to appeal his sentence. And this is what the judge had to say, which kind of confirms in a lot of people's minds that this isn't the true story. I think if you look at the evidence as it was developed, and some of this was developed after the trial, and not actually even used in the trial, I think there's substantial evidence to believe Maddie was lured over to the Phillips home by Josh.

She was not supposed to be there, no particular reason in the evidence that shows that she wanted to be there, or interacted with him, or went into his house. It looks as if this is a sexually motivated case, where the defendant lured Maddie with a sexual motive involved. So the news speculation and the theory that a lot of people have is that he was raking or he had watched this porn and I guess maybe he decided to act on it or wanted something and she had gotten to get golf balls

and she's running to Larry Grisham's place and he was like, hey, Maddie, come here or like he was walking down the street and was like, hey, Maddie, like I need to show you something, I need to show you something and he lured her into the house. And I don't think that the hitting on the bat was to stop her from crying. I think it was to just hurt her. I think either he had molested her and wanted her to shut up about it or he realized after

he had assaulted her that like, Oh, well, I just like molested her, she can't go home, she's gonna tell everyone. And then decided to kill her. I mean, it's kind of all up in the air, but nobody thinks that it's because his dad is strict. So in 2002, he appealed saying that this was a violation of his eighth amendment rights of no cruel or unusual punishment. And life sentencing for a 15-year-old was considered cruel and unusual punishment. So he appealed his sentence to the judge said, nope, I stand by the sentencing. Thank you, goodbye. And then in 2017, he had a new appeal because 2012, which if you guys don't know, I did the case on Cassidy Joe Stoddard and those two, the teenage boys that went to the high school with her and stabbed her to death and like try to vlog it afterwards. Essentially, well, they could get out because in 2012, Scotus, the Supreme Court of the United

States ruled that it was unlawful to automatically send youthful offenders for life. They said that it's because the brain is not developed until the 20s, and if you're a minor, you have an underdeveloped brain. So you can't serve the rest of your life for something you did when you have an underdeveloped brain. So a lot of people all across the nation that were sentenced to life for usually murder when they were a kid, they're now appealing their sentences. It doesn't mean that they're all going to get out and we all got to like lock our doors

and be scared. Don't worry, that's not what it means. A lot of it just means that they have the possibility for parole. And most of them are just getting denied right now, right? And so he appealed it. He is considered a model inmate in prison. And he is a Buddhist. He teaches GED science and math to other inmates.

And apparently he has a ton of remorse and has apologized profusely to the Clifton family. Now he was resentance to life in prison once he appealed in 2017. So he appealed and they're saying no, life in prison. Yeah, and now he's eligible again in 2023 for them to take a look at it again. Do you know, was there any information on his parents as well as Maddie's family? Like what they're doing? Yeah, or what they're saying about this.

Oh God, I don't think so. I think, I mean, what can you say? I couldn't find anything, I mean, I don't know if I can say that. I couldn't find anything out of the norm. It was, you know, exactly what you would think that they feel and how they're reacting. Obviously, his family just has remorse and just is shocked. They're not doing anything outrageous. Because sometimes, you know, the perpetrator's families will do some crazy shit. And you're like,

not my son. Yeah, and you're like, really? Really? Literally, Cassidy Joe Starrer case. One of them had CP, child porn, on his computer. And the mom of that kid still blamed the victim who was murdered. It was like, do you think it's fair that he has to spend the rest of his life in prison? And I'm like, yes, I think it's very fair, ma'am. Don't mean it, burst your care in bubble, but yes, I do. This is the story of Josh Phillips and Maddie Clifton. If you guys are interested, there's a really good documentary. I believe it's called, let me just, it's a 48 hours episode called Why Did Josh Kill.

It's really good. It's really intense. So let me know in the comments. There's no comments, idiot. Sorry, I'm an idiot. But let me know what you think. And I hope you guys are enjoying these many soats. That's a really weird ending. I'm like, happy bye! No, we're sad! Okay. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed this mini-sode of why Dejosh kill. Bye.

Bye. Bye.