Rotten Mango - #4- The Unabomber - Genius Serial Killer or Harvard Experiment Gone Wrong?

Episode Date: July 1, 2020

Not your typical serial killer case... you have a genius Harvard graduated mathematician inside a tiny wooden shed in Montana making 16 different bombs to ship across the nation. He terrorized America for almost 20 years and caused one of the largest manhunts in FBI history.... Honestly the scary thing is he might have gotten away with it if it weren't for...  biss you better listen I'm not going to tell you in this box To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rambles. Whether you're doing intense to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or paid subscription starting at 1299 per month. I don't know where to start on this case. I don't know where to start on this case.

I mean, there are so many ways that I could start this case. I could talk about how this is probably one of the most intellectually capable serial killers out there, probably one of the most academically advanced serial killers out there, but also it's just really weird. I don't think we've ever talked about an anarchist. I don't think we've ever talked about someone who had a past of being in psychological studies at Harvard, and now they are in ADX Supermax. Like I don't think that we even know any criminal that remotely comes to the complexity that is a Theodore Kaczynski. And if you don't know who that name is, you might recognize him by his name that he's known for in media, which is the Unibomor.

We're talking about the Unibomor today. I mean, I- What does Unibomor mean? So Unibomor is UNA and then bomber. My dumbass keeps willing to call it a unibouber. I shouldn't make jokes but like I don't know why that's like the first thing that my brain goes to. But unibomber is UN stands for university and then the A stands for airlines because he was particularly fond of trying to bomb universities

across the nation as well as airlines while they were up in the air. I mean, that is very interesting. I always thought airline hijacking a plane is something that's so weird and crazy. Yeah, but the way that he did it makes it seem not so crazy because he actually was never aboard any of those flights. So I mean it gets very very strange. Maybe you should call him Unibubber. Unibubber.

Yeah, because they did say that you shouldn't give serial killers a cool name. Exactly. You know, because they want to be known for cool shit, but you're like, no, you're a fucking Unibubber. Okay. Have a good time in ADX Supermax, you little Unibubber. Okay. So we're going to be talking about Ted because the cute cuz the doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo doodoo dood get into the habit of doing that. People say that you should do like word exercises. Here I have one pulled up. Okay, ready? This is what a news anchor does.

Artificial amateurs aren't at all amazing. Anne politically, I assault anime things broken barriers. And I'm just going to stop. What? I feel like we lost all of those scenarios. Okay, so let's get back to the Unibubbers. So this happens also. Hi, if this is your first time on this podcast I'm a very very professional true crime expert self-proclaimed So the Unibubers very complex case and I kind of take you to ADX Supermax because the crazy thing of all of this is that he's still alive

And allegedly he's doing just fine He's probably one of the most model inmates at ADX Supermax, which I'm gonna kind of dive into. I am not fond of doing this. I don't do this often, but I never really forced people to feel gratitude or blessed, but even just listening to ADX Supermax and the conditions in one of the nations, if not the world's most insanely protected presence, is gonna make you feel a lot happier wherever you are right now, driving to work on your couch. I don't know.

And so this ADX Supermax is placed in the beautiful land of Florence, Colorado. It's a complete solitary confinement prison. Like most prison systems, I mean, they have gen pop, which is general population. And if you keep messing population, and they'll they have, if you keep messing up there, they'll send you to solitary confinement, and then after a couple days you'll be sent back to Gen Pop.

But you know, you're just in solitary confinement, 23 hours a day, non-stop. Every single day. Every single day. And every single image. Every single inmate. And the one hour that you are not in solitary confinement, you're still kind of in solitary confinement because you're not going to be hanging out with others. They deliver you all your meals. And the one

hour they let you into another vault shaped room that has a four feet by four inch skylight window skylight. And it's important because they said they strategically designed this prison like that because it helps Prevent the prisoners from knowing where they are inside of the prison Yeah, I'm curious to know what happens to these people mentally after You know, Ted apparently is doing just fine Ted yeah Ted cuz in Skaley in a boobair the unibomber. Oh, he's doing just fine Ted yeah Ted cuz in Skaley in a boobair the Unibomber oh he's doing just fine. He's in a

You say his name is Theodore yeah, they call him Ted if that's not enough because you are talking about some of the world's most Hardened criminals that are inside of these prison doors that probably have connections to the outside I mean you're talking about very, very intelligent criminals. You're not talking about some dude who just wanted to steal a TV and went to Walmart. Like, you were talking about some intense people. They have 1,400, 1,400 remote controlled steel doors. Wow.

It's almost like a game, like trying to get through all those steel doors. They have a 12 foot high razor wire fences. I mean, they have like things that I only saw in like Kim possible, like those action movies, like laser beams, pressure pads, they have like attack dogs. The reason that this prison system was created, ADX,

was because first of all, sometimes you just have crazy terrorists. Most of the bombers, I mean, you have the Boston Marathon bomber who is housed in ADX was because first of all sometimes you just have crazy terrorists most of the bombers I mean you have the Boston marathon bomber who is housed in ADX you have the unibomor who is housed in ADX I mean I think there was another one that's infamous and that one yeah, I mean all the bombers are sent there because typically They are of some sort of intellectual capacity. I like to say. They're very dangerous. Very dangerous, yeah. And another reason was because they said, hey, listen, if someone is a murderer and is

in a different prison and they're spending the rest of their life in prison, they have a life sentence. What's to stop them from just killing another inmate because they feel like it? Absolutely nothing. You're just going to get another life sentence on top of your life sentence Mm. It's not like you have nine lives and so they said now this is a threat They said we're gonna send you to ADX if you keep fucking shut up So this is a place that murderers are scared to go

So it's literally hell and that is where Ted Kuznick Kuznick Unibuber is placed there. I mean, just looking at a brief overview of him, there's really nothing that I can say. Like there's just not one part of his life where I'm like, oh, this kind of sums it up. This is kind of where I think everything went wrong. This is the problem with Ted. Everything's just weird.

I mean, he is a very rare criminal, very rare. He's literally the exact example of people always want to say like, if he didn't use all of his energy and his attention and his focus on killing people and trying to do these things, he could have really changed the world for the better. I mean, he has an IQ that's in the 160s. And he was in like middle school

and they tested for his IQ. I mean, he went to Harvard at the age of 16 years old. This was probably why it became one of the most expensive cases for the FBI. You're talking, you're looking at $85 to $90 million. Alone, spent on trying to find Ted. It was probably one of the largest manhunts in history. It lasted 17 years.

There were 16 bombs. And he recorded every single bomb, every single detail of his life in a secretly coded journal. It was coded in numbers. So if you opened that journal, it would just look like a bunch of Excel spreadsheets, just a bunch of numbers. But it was actually a secret code

and he had 22,000 pages inside of this secretly coded journal. I mean, this is freaking crazy. Crazy. So. But he's still got caught. That's another crazy thing. He didn't get caught because the FBI was so intelligent and they outsmarted him. He didn't get caught because the FBI put so many resources in him, such as $90 million.

He got caught because one of the people he loved most turned him in. And it is firmly well known, within the FBI task force that if that wasn't the case, maybe he would still be an active serial killer. He would still be bombing today. Yes. Wow. So yeah, let's get into this just overly complicated. Like I'm just kind of at a loss for words at how complex everything is and it's just so different. I feel like that's another thing. Like the FBI really, I think that they are capable, I think that they're far more intelligent than me, of course.

But I would say that a lot of their work comes down to kind of depending on the criminal to either become stupid or arrogant or ignorant or their ego gets in the way or they slip up by leaving a fingerprint somehow or they do this or they do that, they're kind of waiting for these crutches. But what really happens when the FBI is set up against one man who is just far too intelligent. It's also very different from a lot of serial killer cases, whereas I'm always like, oh, you know, this is their childhood. They were, there's always cases of pretty much sexual assault from once they were child to academically not doing well to this,

to that, but Ted's just not really in that. So what is it? What made him so very... The environment. I'm literally talking the environment, like wilderness. What? He was really upset with technology. Okay, and when was this? This was in most of the bombings happened in the 80s. Okay. And then he was caught in 96, 1996.

So let's just head into bomb number one. I mean, we've got 16 bombs to get through, and they just escalate. They escalate so much. And so bomb number one was in Chicago. Now, this was May 25th of 1978. Wait, what about, like, there's nothing wrong with him growing up? His childhood?

We're gonna get into it. I mean, it's just weird. It's like, it's one of those things where something is wrong with him, but is it wrong with him? Okay, okay. Right. So, bomb number one, Chicago, Northwestern University.

Inside of this, just kind of busy parking lot, there was this package. And what's very strange about this package is that it had a label, it had a return address, and it had all of the paid postage onto it. And so it looked like someone was gonna mail this package out, but for some reason it didn't get mailed out. And someone saw it and was kind of like, okay, this is really weird. Why is it just lying in a parking lot?

Like if anything, because it already had postage, like the stamps on it, I'm just gonna go bring it to this little, you know how they have like the USPS little mailboxes? I'm just gonna bring it and slip it in for someone. Do a good deed today. And so a security officer went to go pick it up and it partially detonated. It was a bomb. And it caused injuries for the security officer. He did survive though. Now what's interesting about this is that immediately the FBI was called in because they don't fork around with bombs

and they definitely don't fork around with bombs at university campuses. And it's just strange. They said it's clever. The bomb itself is clever, but it's not an experienced bomb maker. It's not somebody that we would look at and be like, okay, this is probably part of like a bigger terrorist organization, or it's someone that has dedicated their life into making these explosives. I mean, the bomb itself was kind of clumsy. They said, if anything, it just had lots of wood parts. So it was a little bit strange and on top of that, they're like, I mean, why wasn't it mailed? Why was it not mailed? It doesn't make any sense because they're looking at what was supposed to be a letter bomb, which is a specific term for your mailing a bomb. So whatever arrives at the destination, whether it be somebody's house,

somebody's workplace, somebody's a university, that's when it detonates. Why wasn't it mailed? And so they look at it and they completely reconstruct the bomb because the minute it has already detonated and they look at the proportions of it and they realize that the person who wanted to mail this went to that little mailbox and the box wouldn't fit. And so they said shit like I can't go in and try to mail this because I mean I'm mailing a bomb like listen I can't do that. And so they just left it at the parking lot. So initially of course they just didn't feel like this was a sophisticated bomber. Maybe it'd be a one-time thing.

Obviously, they're still trying to look for who it was, but they weren't that nervous. Until the next year, there was another bomb. This is bomb number two, again, at Northwestern University. And this was about a year later, and it was left on a table, just left on a table in the university. And it was built in a cigar box, and it wasn left on a table, just left on a table in the university. And it was built in a cigar box and it wasn't that large and it was just kind of left for anyone to open it, anyone to touch it. The main trigger point for the bomb was it used a lot of flashlight batteries, just like

AA batteries. And so it was very, very amateur of a bomb. It was not sophisticated at all. I mean, it was just very, very amateur of a bomb. It was not sophisticated at all. I mean, it was just very, very strange. The FBI would later get a lot more insight because they look into the diary of Ted and he had written specifically in his secret code after bomb number two went off in Northwestern University and it injured one person.

So the second one, somebody opened it and got injured? A both of them. Someone was injured. Yeah. So there was two injuries and two bombs, but no deaths, right? And he had written in his diary that he had hoped that a victim would have been blinded or that he had hoped that a victim would have had their hands blown off. And he literally wrote, well, you live and you learn.

So this was kind of like this weird trial and error type of procedure for Ted. And he just constantly wrote an internal like, I wish I knew how to get a hold of some dynamite without people trying to, you know, be suspicious without raising alarm. And he was very upset. And so he said, okay, this time, bomb number three. I've got to do something big. I've got to do something way better. I've got to do something that really gats people's attention because right now,

it looks like some student at Northwestern University is doing this shit. And that's not okay. I mean, I went to Harvard is literally what he's thinking, you know? And so he says, okay, bomb number three, American Airlines. My sister's face timing me. I gotta decline. Sorry sister, we're doing crazy things over here. We're talking about a unibouper. And so American Airlines flight number 444. This was November 15th of 1979.

444? Yeah. That's the death number. I know, in China 4 is... Death? Yeah. Oh God. Oh God, that makes me so paranoid. Yeah. So that was the number. I know in China for his death. Oh God. Oh God, that makes me so paranoid. Yeah. So that was the number. Um, and it was an 80 person flight from Chicago to Dallas, which I don't know if you see the running trend here, but Northwestern University is in

Chicago. So all from Chicago, and it was a flight, and it was a package sent via mail. So if you don't know anything about how mail works, if you send mail via UPS or USPS or FedEx or whatever your carrier is, they abored passenger flights as cargo. Oh, really? So I mean, there are designated flights, like I'm sure FedEx has some flights from what I know, but a lot of the times like especially

with the just the United States Postal Service they board regular airlines as cargo. Yeah and so that package was sent via mail it ends up in flights and it had something very different. This bomb was the first different bomb out of the three, which is that it had an altimeter. Now what an altimeter is that it gets triggered by the altitude change. So when the bomb reaches a certain altitude, it detonates. So you're talking about much more sophisticated than a bomb that wouldn't fit inside of a mailbox. Like you were talking, okay, this person is already adapting. This person's already learning.

This person's already making way more ambitious bonds, and unfortunately for Ted, not unfortunately, for everybody else in the rest of the world, it did not hurt anyone. The plane did not get destroyed, it was okay, they were able to land, and nobody was hurt. It did cause a big havoc, though, and so he had written in his diary, like unfortunately the plan, the plane wasn't destroyed and the bomb was too weak. Nobody even got injured. So the whole plane that he's the hope, I think that he's doing, is he trying to blow up the whole plane and kill everybody in there? Yeah. Wow. He just randomly decided to kill people. Yeah, I don't think it was random. I think he decided this years and years ago But I think as you even see the bombs progress in just insufficient and just how deadly they are

You also see the progression of like his targets because at first it feels completely random. It's just like a creepy dude. And that's also another crazy thing is that for somebody who just wants to kill people, I mean, he literally wrote in his diary that he he's disappointed that nobody was killed by his bomb, right? This is a very strange method because psychologically, serial killers have that mindset. They just want to kill people, right? But with serial killers, they do it so they can see it Experience it really put their hand on someone's throat really be the person that pulls the trigger whereas bombs are completely

Unpersonalized. I mean, you don't even know the victim. You'd never even seen the victim You'd never even talk to them, you just want them to die. Right, right. And so this is also why I think it was so difficult for the FBI because it was just very confusing. So immediately this is when the US recognizes him as a serial killer and they gave him the name of the university airline bomber, the unibomber. So they realized they're the same person? Yeah, and the investigation

early on really had nothing to go off of. I mean, even in the middle or the end, they don't really have much, but at this point, there's no personal association with any of the victims. Like nobody knows why was this one target, was this two, it doesn't make any sense. The only info really that they have is that the bombs are not super sophisticated. You have to spend a great deal of time creating these bombs. They're not that strong, they're not that easy to make, and they're very meticulously done.

You have to accumulate all of these little tiny parts. I mean, there's got to be trial and error, and it seems like he makes a lot of these parts by himself. And so this all of this, it really just leads to the conclusion that this is a very specific type of person, but they don't really know anything else. Soon, I'm going to get into the childhood, but bomb number four is kind of a pivotal one that I kind of want to cover before we get into really who Ted is. And this one was the first time that there seemed to be a very clear target, which is United Airlines. He had sent a bomb to Percy Wood who was an

executive at United Airlines. And this was in the 80s and this one was different. This bomb was inside of a hollowed out book. And the book was called Ice Brothers by Sloan Wilson. I don't know if that's of any value. It didn't seem like to be of the greatest value. And it was accompanied by a letter. Now the letter was very strange because it was just encouraging Mr. Wood to just read the book. That's such a good book. I sent you this book because I think you should take a look at it. It's very pertinent to your job pertinent to your life. And he opened it and he was seriously injured. I mean, there was just cuts blood everywhere he needed surgery. He was in the ICU for length the amount of time. And the crazy thing is, like people say, I guess like the thing is that when the FBI and when these people that experience looking at a crime scene that involves a bomb,

they said it's far deeper and more traumatizing than any other crime scene you'll see. Because you are talking about lots of blood splattered everywhere, lots of flesh splattered everywhere. I mean, the victim themselves look just in so much pain. You're talking about shrapnel everywhere. I mean, it's just a difficult scene to process. And so after bomb number four, inside of the diary, Ted wrote, I feel better, but I'm still plenty angry.

But now I can strike back. That's so confusing. Obviously at this point, the investigation starts getting a lot of pressure. You're talking about airlines, you're talking about executives, you're talking about university students. I mean, to America, that is one of the worst targets. I mean, anywhere, right? And so the investigation pressure is intense. They have to catch him before he gets to anybody else.

And technically, they actually have a plethora of evidence, technically compared to other cases, like let's say there is a serial killer out there that killed Percy Wood or tried to assault Percy Wood. A lot of the times, there can be a lot of cleanup involved, cleaning of the blood, cleaning of the DNA evidence, cleaning of this, covering of this. But with bombs, I mean, that's a package, that's a letter, that's something that stays at the crime scene, you don't get it back. And a lot of the times people leave fingerprints or hairs or anything, just anything on that

bomb or these letters, but they couldn't find anything. And the only thing that they could settle on was like, okay, there's a great deal of wood that is being used inside of the bombs. Is this somebody that works with wood for a living? Is this kind of like a, what do you call it? Like a lumberjack? Is it one of those people? And the only other conclusion that they had was, I mean this person has to be from Illinois. The reason being is that criminals operate where they feel the most comfortable. You really don't see a lot of crazy crimes happening where people don't live nearby. Or maybe they didn't grow up there, etc., etc. And so police were kind of leading to all the signs.

Point to this person lives in Chicago. And to show you how wrong the FBI is, little did the FBI know that Ted Kaczynski was not in Chicago at the time, but he was living in a fucking cabin, in a little, little town with a 500 population of a Lincoln Montana. Montana. All the while this is happening in Chicago, Ted Kaczynski was in a cabin in Montana. He would make his way to Chicago, and there is a backstory of why Chicago. So it's not completely random, but at the time he was living in Montana, and that's where he was building these bombs.

He decided to live in this wilderness area in a tiny, tiny little cabin, and he had no power tools, he had no running water, he had no electricity, he had no car, and he also didn't have a freaking job. Like, he was what is known as a recluse, a recluse. And I mean, like another word before, it would just be a hermit.

Like, the true definition of it. I feel like everyone likes to be like quirky online. Like, I'm just like such a hermit because I don't like going to target every day. I just go like every other day. So I'm a hermit. But like he was generally the definition of it. Like he didn't really believe in all of these things. He had no social circle. I mean. Why is that? Why does he choose to live like that?

He believes everyone should live like that. That's just his belief. Yeah. We're gonna get into it. And so he lived in a 10 by 14 foot cabin, a wood cabin, and the heat was all provided by a stove. If you guys don't know Montana, snow's a lot in the winter. And inside of this cabin, it was just filled with books, books on self-help on wilderness living. So not Tony Robbins, but more like survival guides, right? How to identify plants so that you don't die if you eat a plant. How to be self-sufficient, fully autonomous or whatever they call it, which means like you don't depend on any corporation, any group of people for your civilization. I mean, he was learning all of this.

And then when he was done learning all of this and when he could successfully live in this cabin without all of these things, he started purchasing a lot of chemistry books. Lots of chemistry textbooks that really taught him how to make bombs, explosives. And you know, even the neighbors, after all of this happened because for 17 years, he was making bombs inside that cabin and the neighbors of this small town had known him for almost 20 years, almost two decades. And so of course there was the question

on everybody else's mind of like, how did you not know? Like was there anything about Ted that made you suspect that inside of this tiny little cabin He was just terrorizing the United States like he's a fucking terrorist literally like how did you not know? There's gotta be some explosions now Yeah, and they said you know it's crazy because you can know Ted for 25 years I never really know anything about him But he also doesn't strike you as trying to be private. And I think

with Ted was kind of good at it. I mean, there obviously were most of his life is kind of like, oh, he's very secluded. Doesn't really talk to these people inside this cabin. But I think he wasn't so uncomfortably awkward that people had questions. I think if anything if he really needed to talk to you, he would be good at just asking you about you and never saying anything about him and you would walk out of that just being like that was a pleasant conversation a pleasant interaction. And this cabin in Montana was chosen extremely strategically. So this little neighborhood of Lincoln Montana, everybody lived like a half a mile away from

each other. There was lots of mining. So there was constant little home drums of explosions. There was also lots of lumberjacks trying to tear down the trees. And everybody respected your just seclusion because nobody comes to live in Lincoln Montana if they want to be friends with everyone. And so everyone just kind of respected it, but also, there's a lot of junk cars and junk sheds that the neighbors have, filled with just like old mechanical gear.

And the neighbors really didn't have anything valuable in there. They really didn't care for it. A lot of these junk sheds wouldn't even have a wall on one side. So we just get snowed in and stuff and so he would just kind of help himself to it and there were a lot of times where the neighbors were like Hey, I had the thing that was missing but nobody ever suspected dead How does he not have a job right? I mean you are talking about a dude that was Graduated from Harvard that literally got accepted into Harvard at 16 years old, with an IQ that high, why did he have a job? It doesn't make any sense.

And it's because he was kind of relying on his parents. He didn't want to work a job. And I wouldn't call that necessarily out of laziness or anything like that. He had lots of ambition for other things. And so he would tell his parents like, hey listen, I'm having just intense chest pain and I need to get it checked out, but I don't have the money. And his parents would of course send him the money. And they they didn't grow up wealthy.

They grew up middle class. But his parents were really hard working Polish-American immigrants. And so the dad was like a sausage maker and he worked really, really hard and eventually they had built up a pretty hefty life savings. And they would just give Ted, you know, stipends of it just every month like, hey, if you need anything, here's a little bit of money. So they're good parents, they're not abusive or crazy. No, not at all. That's what's crazy. Okay. So let's get into the entire childhood.

Because I mean, that is probably the, I, I hate, I mean, some people don't like it. But I hate when there are even shows or documentaries or anything where it's not heavily focused on the childhood. Because I think that's how you really understand a serial killer, not because you need to be understanding, but because you need to know why it happened. So maybe we as society cannot let it happen ever again. And usually it's preventable.

I mean, you're talking about cycles of abuse, which is preventable, right? You have this family of two parents, second generation working class, Polish Americans, Wanda, and Theodore, who is the dad? Yeah, Ted's name, Dr. is dad. And they had two sons, Ted and David. Now David is gonna be pivotal later in this story.

And David was Ted's younger brother, and David loved Ted. He looked up to him. Everything about David just, I mean, I can't even explain it. He just freaking loved Ted. He thought Ted was the brightest thing in his life, and it would be so funny because everyone would say, hey, you know your brother Ted? Is it any sort of genius?

Like, didn't he skip like two grades? And he'd be like, yeah he is. And then they'd be like, wow, I heard he's like an Albert Einstein. I mean, not really, but like you get a kind of like Albert Einstein. And then David would be like, what do you mean kind of like?

What do you mean? He kind of is like Albert Einstein. And he'd get offended because to him, his older brother was like the end all be all, just like this amazing person. And he didn't really notice anything growing up. I'm sure because David himself was growing up and experiencing a lot of things.

But one day his mom had pulled him aside and said, you know, sometimes Ted can be a little bit emotional, sometimes Ted can be a little bit crazy. And a lot of it has to do with something that happened when he was a baby. And he said, what? Okay, let me tell you the story. And so he sits, she sits, stayed down and she says, when your brother Ted was born, I mean, he was a happy baby. He was laughing. He was active. He was laughing, he was active, he was excited, I mean, he was just really bonding with us. And he was so happy until something really bad happened.

So Dave's like, what happened? What happened? Well, one day he woke up and he had these hives all over him, just like these itchy red hives. And so obviously we're like, okay, we need to take him to a hospital immediately because like I said They're really good parents and so they take him to the hospital and they said listen We don't know what's wrong with your son. So we have to take him in we have to check him in We have to keep him for over a week and inside this hospital

I mean it's not a day carry is gonna be isolated We also don't know if these hives are contagious, so we're not going to have him playing with other babies. I mean, this is going to be very limited contact for about a week, while the doctor is trying to figure out what's wrong with him. Okay. And the parents, I mean, both of the senior kazinsky's, they kind of blame the hospital. They said that they couldn't visit. They were only allowed to visit like two times over the next week. And he was extremely isolated. To the point where after he came back from the hospital, the hives were gone, but he showed like very little emotion for months afterwards.

I mean, there was no smiling anymore. He refused to make eye contact, which is really important for babies. I didn't know this, I googled it, but for infants, I was going to say inmates, sorry, it's eye contacts extremely important. And typically, if an infant isn't showing enough eye contact by a certain age, I mean, you're probably looking at some behavioral issues, you're probably looking at maybe this could be stemming from a bigger problem that we don't know yet. Maybe it could be some sort of mental illness that we don't know yet and we can't diagnose yet. And so I mean it seems to be a very very big factor, right? And he just he just was very distant and he was distrusting of even his own

parents. And it was very strange. I mean the theory behind this that a lot of psychiatrists even when they talk about the unibomber, is they say that when a child doesn't bond with their mom during that stage, right? And it's not because the mom abandoned the child. In this case, it was the opposite. You know, the parents wanted him to get good medical attention. For whatever reason, if the child does not feel bonded with the mom in particular, they can actually form

psychopathy as a defense mechanism. They can literally become psychopathic at that point, because psychopathic tendencies are actually all defense mechanisms, which means you don't feel empathy because you don't want to get hurt. You don't really have a moral compass because you feel like you've been abandoned and you just have to survive this world. And so who doesn't matter if you heard other people, it's just about your survival. You become almost very primitive, right? Which is what you would imagine a baby would feel if they felt like, I'm just thrust into this world and I've got no adult. Like, I mean, I get it. Just like that one week, the baby turned

into that. Yeah, so they think this is a factor and more importantly, what happens in college will become a bigger factor, right? Because of this, the mom felt like even when she showed him a picture of like what it was like when he was in the hospital, even when he was a teenager, she saw that he physically recoiled. He physically just didn't want to look at himself as a baby in the hospital. Which is strange because it's not a situation where he was burned and it's a part of him now. It's not something that he has no hives, he has no physical remaining evidence of it.

Without his parent's story, he would probably have no recollection of it, but the fact that he physically just recoiled from that picture is very telling. And she said that ever since then, he's always just kind of have a sympathy for animals and insects and wildlife that just couldn't defend for themselves. So at this point, the reason that the mom had told Dave this was, you know, Dave was just wondering like, why Ted gets so mad at certain things? Why does Ted get so explosively angry at certain things as a teenager? And the mom said, you know, I think it's because all of this, Ted biggest fear is feeling abandoned certain things make him feel abandoned

So she looked at her youngest son and she said don't ever abandon your brother, okay? And Dave looked at her and said mom. I love Ted. Ted is literally my favorite person in the world I would never ever Abandon my brother. So the mom is very in tune with what's happening to her son. And this is going to be really, really sad because Dave will later be faced with a choice of turning his brother in or risking more death academically though. After all of this happened, I mean, for some reason, looking at other cases of serial killers,

you kind of expect them to, okay, this trauma happened, and now everything in life going forward is just going to be obliterated, it's just going to go to shit, nothing's going to go well, and then it's going to cause them to just burst when they grow up. But not really, I mean, his family really valued intelligence. Like I said, his IQ was 167 to be exact. So like almost in the 170s, and he even skipped a grade, he skipped 6th grade, and that again was going to be another trigger. And the crazy thing is Ted, he does not claim many of these as triggers. He says, no, that had nothing to do with me. That has nothing to do with my life. But psychiatrist, psychologist, the people who have been studying him, have been studying this case, they're like,

well, I don't know Ted. And so he'd skip this sixth grade. And prior to skipping that grade, he always was pretty well socialized. He had tons of friends. He was kind of almost a leader of his grade. He was almost like the dude that everyone went to because of how smart that he was.

But then after he skipped the grade, in the next year, I mean, they're all older than him. They're all physically bigger than him. And to them, they looked at him and they just called him a stupid nerd. Like, you're just a freaking nerd. And so this is kind of when his love for math, like just interrupted, he became obsessed.

Like super obsessed with math. And a lot of people think it's because, I mean, obviously, it got to be something in him He's probably very numbers oriented. Yeah, and he's very logical Which is crazy to say about someone who's sent out 16 bombs to the nation but I mean he's a very logical person and Yeah, he loved math and also it was a very solitary thing math isn't really teamwork It's not really something you have to do in a group.

With this obsession, he really excelled. He finished high school in three years, and he was accepted to Harvard at 16 years old. Harvard is going to get really interesting for him, okay? Because there's a social experiment involved, a psychological experiment. I feel like the only experiments that we've hear about from these major major like Ivy League colleges is like the Stanford prison experiment and we all know how well that turned out so I mean this is just gonna get as dirty and nasty as possible. When he was accepted into Harvard at 16 he went and he was kind of described by all of his peers as shy but not

really anti-social. Nobody really saw anything in particular that was like oh this dude's weird. This dude doesn't know how to communicate with people. He kept to himself, but he was relatively personal, very personable and he was well articulated. And the only time that you really saw him get excited about things was when he was talking about philosophy, right? Mathem philosophy. Yeah, and the one philosophy that he always maintained was that you cannot live as a free person

as a member of a large-scale system. He was saying that there is this system in place. It's an industrial system. It's the technology system. And with these huge systems, nobody's really free. And he actually made a bunch of best friends at Harvard, which is crazy because they're all like college age and he's 16, but that's how academically intelligent he was. He really did not act like a 16-year-old. He really didn't think like one.

But at this point, they all start realizing that wait a second, now he's starting to become a little bit anti-social. Now when we go and sit with him when he's in like the cafeteria hall, he'll just try to finish his food as fast as possible and leave. Like he won't talk to us anymore and he had cut most of his friends out of his life. And so they were just really confused. And there seems to be a direct link with the fact that he started becoming way more anti-social, the less that he was for technology. Timing is really important. Timing in place is really important because during this time, technology was starting to develop. And when you are talking about a place like an Ivy League school, I mean, you're talking

about some of the front line of technology, the leaders of technology. You're talking about some of the biggest inventors of technology. And so, majority of his classmates and his peers believed in technology and they were excited and they wanted to work in that field. They wanted to change the world. They wanted to come up with more ideas with technology. And so, because of that, he really just distance himself from everyone on campus. Why does that throw him off so much? Why does he have such a hatred for it? Is it because

the philosophy that he believes? Yeah, he just doesn't think that you can be a free person. He thinks that technology is going to get to a place where it becomes so uncontrollable that it's going to ruin the environment and it's going to ruin humans. It's going to take over humans not so much in an apocalyptic sense, but like he is saying that technology is going to mentally and emotionally destroy humans. The wilderness is going to get destroyed and all for what is kind of his saying. Which the crazy thing is, there are so many intelligent people even now to this day that will look at Ted and say Right spirit wrong execution, you know like these are things especially right now with like climate change everyone's looking at it He's not wrong. He's not crazy. Yeah, but like really insanely disgusting execution of your theory, you know

Yeah, at this point. I mean becoming more socially distanced from everyone else, he decided that he wanted to sign up for an experiment. Now this is the crazy part. This was a psychological, fucking weird experiment. But he didn't know it. He thought that this was a study, a group study, on how their intelligent peers interact with conflicting philosophical, la la la la la, da da da da da da, do do do, she's so intelligent.

Philistophical, okay. They would have a study. This is how it was presented to all of the people that they were experimenting on, was hey, do you wanna come be a part of a study where we put two very smart people, obviously Harvard students into a room and you guys debate about philosophy. And we will see how you guys handle the debate. Do you shut them down? What is your method of communicating? You know, and so he's like, you know what? I am very, not going to say the word, I'm very deep, philosophical. There she got it this time, okay?

I'm very philosophical. So I like talking about things like this. I can't do it with my friends because they disagree and I get riled up and I don't want to be their friend right now, but maybe I can do it with other people. So he signs up. Now little did he freaking know that's not what the study was at all. Why the hell was shaking people?

Because if you know, then it's not what the study was at all? Why they always trick people? Because if you know, then it's not really a genuine study. And so Henry Murray was the psychologist who had put this study together, this experiment together. And people these days will now call this a incredibly disgusting, purposely brutalizing experiment. I mean, people don't really see much of a reason for this experiment other than to break kids down.

And mind you, a lot of the other people that were in this study, they're completely normal people now, right? But there is a slight argument of the fact that when Ted was in this study, he was 16, he was not 19, he was not 20, he was not a college student age, he was 16. So this is how the study would go.

They would ask all of the students, Ted included, to write an essay detailing some of your most strong personal beliefs. And every week it would change because they met every single week. And he was a part of this study for three years. I mean, Ted himself logged 200 hours in this study over the course of three years, okay?

And so they said, okay, maybe it's religion, maybe it's less this time. I want you to write a very personal essay. And they would do that. They would turn it in to Henry. Henry would then give it to an anonymous attorney. Every single week it would be a different attorney. And they would completely dissect the essay. Now the attorney they were told by Henry even if you as a personal personal you agree with this.

You agree that everyone has the right to believe whatever it is right yeah they would say yeah I do agree but not this time for the experiment for the purpose of the experiment you do not believe and you think that's stupid whatever these these kids are writing, you think it's stupid, okay? And so they said, okay. So they said dissect it from the counterpoint. Completely rip up their entire belief. What? And so then they would be called in and they would sit down and all of this would be recorded. Okay, like they would be taking pictures. They would have videos of it, right? And they would say, okay, so you are a student who believes in this. You are another student who doesn't believe in this.

Have a conversation and Ted believed that this student just had a opposing view. But in reality, it was an attorney who was much older, who is told the game plan is to completely obliterate his belief. And so they would use their own words against them. They would humiliate them. They would say, there's no logic in your beliefs. Honestly, I think that you believe this

because you're using it as a crutch. You're trying to make up for all of your incompetency in a BCD area. I mean, just for like a straight hour, it was them. I mean, there was an audio release later in trial. It was just them just berating these young kids. About some of the beliefs that were the most personal to them. Why are they doing this? Why are they trying to research? That's where it gets crazy, okay? And so they would film these and they would even play back these encounters to the students. And they would say, look at you. You, the other student, aka the freaking attorney, they would say the other student is so calm and so collected. But you, when you are told

that there is no logic in this statement, you become enraged, you become angry, and we cut it on camera. Why are you so angry about it? And it was just psychologically demeaning. They monitored the psychological reactions through electrodes. Yeah, sounds like Somaivi League shit, okay? And it was just really, really intense. It was so intense to the point that there is a conspiracy theory about it right now, which is the fact that some people think that it was part of MK Ultra,

which is the mind control study that they did from the CIA. And it's not without any water. Meaning like, I don't think people came up with this conspiracy theory, because they're like, you know, bummer MK Ultra, that's a good story. It's because Henry Murray, the psychologist that was leading this entire experiment, actually worked with the CIA. And he had provided a lot of interrogation tactics and the actual purpose for this experiment was looking for more interrogation tactics, techniques, and strategies.

And they do it with students? Yeah. Because I think it has to do with the fact that you are talking about very academically forward students. Well, there's a lot of scary people in these school cats. And so they were trying to study how humans are able to be resilient against these aggressive tactics. How long does someone have to yell and just fucking tear someone apart until they just change their belief? Or they start writing different, or they start thinking different. How long?

And it was heavily looked into, and the main thing with the electrodes was they were trying to see how stress would impact the way that they react. They were saying, hey, some of the smartest people in the world, some of the most geniuses, if they're stressed out, will they act differently? And how much stress? And how do we apply the stress? And they were looking at all the

strategical points of that, right? And so this was kind of like a complete attack on his ultimate being. And I think that's really important. I think it's really important because a lot of the times, there is this argument that most students at Harvard, especially at the time, and now, when they're in college they're ultimate being

lies with the fact that they are intelligent and they can think forward and they can think by themselves and they are independent thinkers. K through 12 all you did with study you get to this college where everyone says you are only just with the smartest people their entire identity up until this point I mean later they're gonna grow up and get a life and shit, you know? But up until that point, it is all on the fact that they are smart, they're capable of thinking

with logic and ABC and D, and this was just a complete attack on all of that. The reason that there's such a direct tie with MK Ultras, I mean, technically because they were looking at interrogation tactics and Henry Murray did have an association with the CIA it seems but also the entire thing was just based off of the fact of can you break someone down enough someone intelligent like you would consider most spies or most terrorists like like most of these people, like relatively intelligent people. Can you break them down so much and just kind of build them back up however you want

it, like little Lego pieces so that they are complacent to you and that they believe you and they believe everything you say and do and they share those same beliefs. Can you do that? Is that possible? Right. And that is Is that possible? Right. And that is a very scary freaking study. And is it possible? Did they have a conclusion? Yeah, it seems like it is possible.

Oh wow. The CIA really did. Is that just like brainwashing? Yeah, mind control. So I mean, there's obviously different types of mind control. There's the type that's like very intense, such as mkltras known for such as lst literally mind altering you give them a drug alter the chemicals in their brain right or you have the other one which is by brutal force such as waterboarding right until they confess to

something or they change their belief right or you have more of what's known today as tactics like this, like good cop, bad cop. These are psychological, just aggressive tactics. But at the end of the day, it's still trying to get to the same goal of breaking someone down. Afterwards, after all of this, he still decided to study mathematics. And so he went to the University of Michigan and he was trying to earn a PhD in theoretical mathematics, which is like, wow. That's even a lot to say, theoretical mathematics. Everyone at the University of Michigan,

everyone who talked to him, everyone who interacted with him, everyone who studied with him, everyone that was asked after the fact that people found out that he was a unabormar, they said, you know, it's not enough to just call him smart. It's not enough to just call him a genius. Like, he was extremely ambitious and driven and ahead of his time, even though he was younger than everyone there. It's a high compliment, compliment, no? Yeah, he was not someone who just was smart, but then would still go to a frat party every now and then, and would have a normal life.

Like, he just was dedicated to theoretical mathematics at the time, which is kind of funny, because on the opposite hand, if you read through Ted's journals, his exact words were that the University of Michigan standards are wretchedly low. So yeah, and this is where more shit starts happening. So up until this point, you've had the hospitalization, you've had his skipping grades that impacted his socialization, you had the Harvard study, and then at the University of Michigan, some

really weird shit starts happening. Fratchingly low standard, huh? Also it's wretchedly, but you're like wretched. What's wretchedly? Wretchedly is like a word only people than I queue 167 years, you know? And all I hear is wretchedly. Yeah. Sassy, bougie.

Wretched. But this point, I mean this is when Ted starts realizing that he likes girls. Like, I think maybe he was just so caught up in all of his studies and all of his academics that he really didn't give any consideration or any thought or any into the any emotions that a normal boy, man in this age group feels, right? And so he started having a lot of thoughts about girls, which is very, very normal. He kept a journal even in the University of Michigan.

That one was not coded in secret code, but he did write every single day. And he said that, you know, this is where it all starts getting weird. He saw a girl at a library, and she was really pretty. And it seemed like she was very available, like she was kind of, I don't know, she was just kind of, she didn't look like she had a boyfriend, is what he was trying to say. And he wanted to talk to her. He wanted to ask for her number and do all of these things. And so he's like trying to talk himself up. Like it's okay. Worst case scenario, she

says, no, it doesn't even matter. And so he's getting up the nerve to talk to her, and then he doesn't. And then almost immediately in the same journal entry, he starts saying some crazy derogatory stuff against that girl that he's never had a conversation with. And so a lot of psychologists are starting to see that, okay, he is having a lot of issues with socialization. Not that this would be good,

but instead of blaming himself, he is kind of putting it onto others. And so instead of it being his fault that he didn't have the courage to talk to this girl, it now became the girl's fault. So he's finding these reasons and excuses to tell himself it's okay? Yeah. It started getting even weirder. I mean, he was just having a lot of social issues, not even just with women, but even with men. He was having a lot of social issues, not even just with women, but even with men. He was making a lot of friends, and it started making him really ponder a little too deeply my diet in society and the way society works. That's when he felt like he really was a victim of society. He feels like, hey, it's not my fault that I can't

make friends. It's not my fault that I can't have conversations with women. It's not my fault that I can't make friends. It's not my fault that I can't have conversations with women It's literally society's fault that they made me this way. I am a product of society. So thus it's not my problem Now these intense thoughts. I mean, I'm gonna put a disclaimer right which is the fact that I believe when anyone tells you that They're feeling a certain way about anything you should believe them first of all and then you should try to help work through it right if they're asking you for that help but this is very interesting because any psychiatrist understanding of Ted any psychiatrist interview or articles that's been written I've read most of them or a lot of them that I could and nobody genuinely believes that Ted was suffering from gender dysphoria.

And that is what they call gender dysphoria is what they say is when you feel like you were born into the wrong body, right? He started fantasizing about being a woman when he was in the University of Michigan. And a lot of people suspect that he started doing this because he really never was able to talk to a woman and it was frustrating him to the point where he was like, you know what, instead of sitting here, I think it about how can I talk to a woman, I'm just going to become a woman. And so it didn't really seem like it was actually genuinely rooted in gender dysphoria where he felt like he was in the wrong body and he really wanted to become a woman and he wanted to be a woman.

It really feels rooted in the fact that he just was so frustrated that he couldn't talk to a woman. And so his brain was leading him here, right? It almost immediately stops as soon as it becomes, you know? And gender dysphoria is not one of those things that you just have like a month long way. Like, you know what, that's a cool idea, but I'm over it. It's not one of those things. And so he says, I want a sex change.

He starts writing about it in his journal for a little while. I want a sex change. I want a sex change. He starts writing about it in his journal for a little while. I want a sex change. I want a sex change. And then he books a psychiatrist. And he says, listen, I'm going to talk to this person because I think at the time that he needed to go through multiple hoops before he was actually able to get a medical sex change, right? And so at this point, he goes to the psychiatrist, but he didn't really want to talk about it.

He didn't really just want to entertain it at all, and so he just literally left. Okay. And at that point, he starts really having anger issues with psychiatrist. He said that during his years in Michigan, he started having these dreams after this point. And these dreams had always consist of some psychologist

who would either be trying to convince Ted that he's sick or a psychiatrist who would be trying to control his mind. Does that sound familiar to anybody? And he would get angrier in his dream. And then finally in the dream he would break out into physical violence. And at that moment in the dream where he murders the psychologist, he experiences great feelings of relief and liberation. He rolled all these dreams down? Yes. This was when he started having thoughts about

killing people and that sex change appointment was very pivotal because he came home and he wrote in his journal that this was a liberating day for him because he was very angry at the doctor because he didn't have the nerve to say anything to the doctor. He wants to murder the doctor. And that's okay is what he's telling himself. It's okay. One day I will murder the doctor and I'll murder anybody else that I don't like.

He even literally wrote it as if he was rising like a phoenix. When he was at University of Michigan as when he decided to become a killer, but because of how intelligent and how smart he is, not a compliment in this situation, and how much self-control and logic he had, he didn't start killing immediately. He waited and he waited and he had. He didn't start killing immediately. He waited, and he waited, and he waited. And that is so freaking scary. I see. I don't remember names, but there are some other geniuses that have so many of them has such a miserable life because of how society treats these genius differently, and it caused them to become abnormal.

I also think that, but also think this, right? Imagine, okay, I'm not saying I'm a genius, but I assume there's gotta be at least four people in this world that are dumber than me. Maybe three. So if you gather those three people, and you put me in the same room as them, over time maybe I will get frustrated because maybe everything they say sounds stupid to me because

I feel like I'm smarter than them and I'm wondering if that's how geniuses feel with everybody in their life because technically everybody in their life compared to that IQ of 167 seems like an idiot. I was bragging that I was 114 and he's probably looking at me like, oh my god, this piss is the dumbest piss I've ever seen. Yeah. So maybe that also drives them into a rage. I can imagine, I can see that. Like just getting frustrated and angry and like what's the point of even telling you what I think?

Because you're an idiot. Yeah, they must feel very left out, can fit in. Yeah. But then also when they try to fit in, maybe they just get angry because they're like, you're kind of dumb. Yeah. I don't know. That's what I heard.

I heard there was a study that people who are intellectually smarter than others, they tend to get more irritated with people. And that's why they're usually known as like the introverts when technically not, like they're not actually introverts. A lot of geniuses are extroverts, but they get frustrated dealing with a lot of people. Can't relate. Yeah, I know.

I mean, this is a very pivotal point in his life. And then he decides to go home back to Chicago where his family was living. And at that point, he starts kind of dating a girl. He started working at a factory that Dave was in charge of. Dave was a supervisor at this factory, his younger brother. And so he starts, you know, working at that factory, he meets a girl, starts dating her. And Dave said this was weird. Dave said it was really weird because this was his first time that he ever saw his older brother

a day to woman. And his older brother is just much older than him. I mean, there was never really a high school girlfriend. There was never a girlfriend from college that he talked about. And so he was kind of excited for him. And Ted really seemed happier than before. And one day he came home and he just was smiling. And looking around and Dave was like, what are you smiling about? And he said, she kissed me. And it was just kind of like a, okay, moment,

you know. And then a couple days later, Ted came home in a rage. And Dave said, what's wrong, Ted? You were just so happy. What's going on? Did you get into a fight with your new girlfriend? Like, what's going on? Ted said, you know, she told me that she thinks I'm better off as a friend. And so Dave is just thinking, listen, my brother, you know, she told me that she thinks I'm better off as a friend. And so David is just thinking, listen, my brother, you just got dumped. He's gonna be sad for a couple days. But that's gonna be that because that's normal. That's all a part of life.

But what he didn't think was gonna happen was that Ted was gonna show up at the factory the next day for work and start putting up these flyers, almost like posters in the break room where the same woman works in the bathrooms, where the same woman works in the bathrooms, where the same woman works in just all of these common areas, where the woman works, talking about her as if she's just like this slut in a hoe and extremely derogatory stuff. And he wasn't even hiding it.

He wasn't even trying to act like, I don't know who did that, like that's so crazy. I mean, he was seen putting it up by everybody. Well, that sounds like a typical serial killer behavior, right? Yeah, which is why it's kind of weird because, I mean, even a lot of psychologists think it's weird that he didn't go on the route to be the standard rapist serial killer.

Right. Because it did seem like he is very, very angry with women. I mean, it seems like he doesn't like women. He thinks that they're just these Hors According to his drogatory terms, you know That's how he copes with it. Yeah, and so he started putting all of these things up and his brother was kind of threatening him Like what are you doing? Like this is not okay? First of all, this is evil and I don't want my brother to be evil but second of all this is a workplace and I'm your supervisor and I will definitely have to fire you if you do this again

This was the first real fight that they've had Ted shows up the next day and what does he do? He walks up straight to where Dave his younger brother is and Stakes up another poster and looks at him and says are you gonna fire me and Dave said? I'm sorry Ted, but yeah, I'm gonna have to send you home. And at this point, Ted starts writing about how he had this idea. And it wasn't just an idea because he actually was able

to go through with part of it, which was he was gonna sneak into our car while she was at work and she was gonna wait in the back seat. And once you got into the front seat, he was gonna grab a knife and completely mutilate her, which sounds exactly like a rapist serial killer, like you're talking Ted Bundy level, right? Yeah.

But then he decided against it for some reason. So he even went into her car, but then he got out, because he was like, you know what, I'm not gonna do this. So maybe he's finally, his IQ was catching up to say. That's not smart. Yeah. So I mean, it seems like he was way very, very smart enough to not do something impulsively if he was going to get caught. That was what was going on when he went back to Chicago

and worked at the factory. And then afterwards, he decided to move to California. To Northern California. It's the university. No, he went to UC Berkeley, sorry. So he gets into UC Berkeley, but instead of going as a student this time, he is an assistant professor. And Berkeley is a very, very, very good school.

So you got to be really smart to go to Berkeley, but even smarter to become a professor. Right. And so he starts teaching at Berkeley. The students hated him. I mean, they said that he was really awkward. They said that he really doesn't entertain you and try to even answer your questions. If he thinks your questions are stupid, just teaches out of the textbook, very numbers-oriented. Really no personality, just miserable, miserable miserable is what they would say about his class.

The only reason he wanted to become an assistant professor is because he felt like this was the fastest way to accumulate enough money to purchase a super small piece of land somewhere. He wanted land that nobody else wanted. He didn't want prime time real estate in fucking, I don't know, Silicon Valley, right? Silicon Valley is like, I like to call it. He didn't want any primed high-mail estate. Like, you're not talking New York City. Like, he wanted a little piece of land where nobody else wanted land because there's nobody else around. Okay. And so he said, this is going to be the fastest way is to do a high profile

job. And so he gets that job and everyone at UC Berkeley, all of the professors, the head of the boards there. When they were interviewed after the fact, they said, you know, if he had stuck around at Berkeley, even though the student hated him, we think that he would have become like a senior faculty member today. Why? Because he's so smart.

Because he's so smart. And he was so well respected amongst his peers and colleagues. And being a senior faculty member at a place like UC Berkeley, I mean, anywhere, but in particularly UC Berkeley is a very honorable position. It's a very, very coveted position. And they said that, you know, everything kind of fell apart because he resigned. He was like, listen, I don't want to do this anymore. And even all of the people that were working around him were like, no, no, like, what is it

you want? Do you want to raise like what's a problem? You know, what can we do so that you could stay longer? And he was interviewed, Ted was interviewed. And he said, is stupid that they kept asking him to stay like, they're dumb. Like, they don't even know that I'm just doing this for money. They think I'm like, so fucking into mathematics. And he says that mathematics is a game, but it's not a game he wants to keep playing.

His thinking is just very fascinating. Yeah, and so he says, you know, I'd rather just go find a little shed somewhere and that's how we get to the cabin. That's how he buys that little, I, little isolated space in Montana. Why Montana? Um, he loves, I think he likes the scenery.

He was very big on wilderness. So he's very big on like having beautiful trees, beautiful scenery, right? And the goal for him, when he moved into that cabin, was to be completely self-sufficient and to live alone. And this is when he started reading all those books about identifying edible plants, organic farming, all of those things.

And I think this was another trigger point for him. So he works his entire life feeling like he doesn't fit in. He gets to this cabin, okay, I don't have to worry about fitting in anymore because literally it's just me. How can I not fit in when it's just me? And then came a bunch of trucks and a bunch of industrial projects. A bunch of real estate developers who said, you know, this nice little piece of land in Montana seems prime pickings. Seems like something that I want to build an apartment complex on.

It was just, um, yeah, I mean, he saw it as they were just trying to get rid of the wilderness for money, for the system, for the industrial system, an apartment complex for miners or et cetera, et cetera. He hated it. This is when he started buying a bunch of books, right? So in this cabin, his main goal was to be self-sufficient and to enjoy the wilderness. These motherfickers come in and start destroying the wilderness. And so he goes out and he buys a bunch of books about sociology and political philosophy. And this is where kind of the extremist in him comes out, I would say, right? And this is when he starts getting that coded journal because he starts really writing about some intensely deep things.

So you're talking about that 22,000-page handwritten dated entry journal that just looks like numbers. And his early crimes were like there was a very big lumberjack who lived in the area and he hated it so much that they were cutting down trees that he would go put sand in their engine to these very, very expensive tree cutting machines. And once you turn the machine on, then it would just stand, would get everywhere inside of the machine, and it would just cost a lot of money. It would take a lot of time to get it fixed. And he would do all of these things. At one point, they would fix the machine

and bring it back. And so then he would go into the owner's cabin and destroy everything in the cabin and even take a poop in their tub. Okay, man, go. I know, yeah, that even take a poop in their tub. Okay, Mangle. I know, yeah, that part's a really oddly specific, okay? I mean, he hated the idea that the wilderness was being destroyed.

And yet, I have no idea who this mother effort is. I mean, at this point, they still think that he's just a person living in Chicago. Meanwhile, no, this is Ted Kaczynski living in Fricking Montana. So let's go back to the bombs, now that we have a little bit of an understanding of Ted Let's go to bomb number five Now this bomb took place in Utah, which is so random. So you had Chicago Chicago Chicago, Utah and This bomb was very interesting because it was diffused

So it didn't go off and it was traveled to Salt Lake City to the University of Utah via bus. Let's to target university. Yeah. It's trauma. Yeah. And it was found by a maintenance worker and it was diffused.

It was a pipe bomb. And inside of it was a can of gasoline and that was going to be the explosive, right? and what's very interesting about this one is this one provided a lot of evidence to the FBI because you have a diffused bomb which means it didn't go off means they can literally study every little part of it without having to put it all back together and there's some pieces that are missing etc etc right even with all of this they were like okay so what we get from this is that he has no signs of stopping like they still did not get even further in their investigation

And they said okay, he has no signs of stopping and now he's branching off to Utah That was about it then bomb number six happens and this time is to mother freaking Tennessee He's not like being successful at this though. I know. So this one was to Tennessee and it was literally labeled to someone. So again, this one's a little bit different. I mean, it's kind of like the United Airlines one where it was labeled to an executive. This one was to Patrick Fisher at Vanderbilt University and it was actually opened by his assistant. It exploded in the secretary Janet Smith, his her name, she was seriously injured from opening the package. There was a return address to Utah, which then threw the FBI off because they're very confused

now, and they're trying to look into Patrick. What they don't know is that Patrick has ties to the University of Michigan, and he is a scientist and a mathematician. But they don't really think of that as significant importance because how many people go through the University of Michigan and I'm sure there's other establishments that Patrick Fisher had been a part of. So he knew Patrick? It seems like somehow he knew. Yeah. People describe Ted as being someone that if you pissed him off, first of all, we'd probably be too dumb to even know that we pissed him off. We'd probably already

piss him off by being too dumb. Yeah. And if we pissed him off, we probably wouldn't even know, but you'd probably be in his journal where he kept a victim list that he wanted to eventually target. And when you piss him off, it's probably not even like doing something crazy. It's probably just maybe you said something dumb and that anger would to eventually target. And when you piss him off, it's probably not even like doing something crazy. It's probably just maybe you set something dumb and that anger would never go away. And I think that's something that's common with serial killers is they really do not know how to get rid of anger

in a healthy way. And so this is really turning into an agitated investigation, right? So the FBI's losing their mind because first of all, it's so hard to profile this serial killer. I mean, he's going to turn into one, he hasn't killed anyone yet, but it's so hard to profile, right? Bomb number seven is going to be interesting because he finally targets University of Berkeley,

UC Berkeley, okay? And this was in 1982. It was towards a professor at Berkeley. They saw a package on a faculty lounge, just the ground. It was just chilling in the electrical engineering building. I mean, I don't know if that has any significance, but there was a letter. He picks up this package. It completely detonates a professor at Berkeley at this point. It completely detonates and he is seriously injured. There is a clue, a clue that they haven't seen before, which is who it works. Now they don't know if the who is a man by the name of who, like W.U. as in, typically known as like an Asian last name, right?

Or if they don't know if he spells whoo weird. So it says W.U. dash it works, exclamation mark. So again, nobody knows if it's a person or whoo He said I told you it would and it was initials r dot v So the FBI went on a complete chase they tried to chase down anyone with the first name or last name or middle name by the By the name of woo they also tried to search down anyone with the initials of RV They asked anyone they could find with the last name or first name or middle name of who if they knew anyone with the initials of RV, I mean they they were really just going with it because that's all you can do and that's the only clue that you have. And it turned out to be a completely dead end, it was a freaking red hearing or a herring which means like it doesn't mean anything. It's just to throw them off of the case.

Did it on purpose, right? You did it on purpose. And at this point, that means that the FBI immediately knows this is some dude who is kind of somewhat getting off on the chase. He believes that he is intellectually enjoying this cat and mouse game with the FBI. He's also smart enough to know that he can technically

outsmart the FBI. And later, if you listen to any interviews that Ted has done with the very few select people that he has done them with He really does not like the FBI He deems them to be one of the most incompetent organizations out there He thinks that they're all so dumb and so stupid and they wouldn't even know how to solve a case if it was just the answer was right in front of their eyes That's a different level of struggle. Thinking, yeah, all of us are just like, the FBI were so fucking scared. Yeah.

Jeez, Louise, but he's like, no, they're all idiots. At this point, after detonates, the professor of UC Berkeley is critically injured. They did not die. They will recover. And inside of his secretly coded journal, he writes that he is incredibly frustrated that he can't seem to make a lethal bomb that he can't seem to kill someone. I mean that is a mindset I do not understand. It's not even I can't kill this one person that ruined my life. It's like I can't kill someone anyone. And that's all he wanted to do at that point. Yeah. And so for three years, the campaign stops. The bombings stop.

So after bomb number seven, suddenly for three years, radio silence. How many bombs are out there? 16. So the FBI think either A, maybe the dude was old. Maybe he's dead. B, maybe he's already a criminal that got caught for something else, and now he's in jail for something else, and we just we just don't know it. But what they didn't think was that he is deep

in his Montana forest testing new explosive mixes to come back for his campaign. At this point, America has kind of settled down because in the beginning, because of how sporadic and how random these bombs seemed to people, it just felt like you really couldn't say, well I'm not gonna get bombed. It was just so random that all of America was so cautious about even opening mail and opening packages in the workplace because they don't freaking know, especially at universities where all of the students are. They don't freaking know. And so in 1985 he finally decides to come back. He had tested enough explosives and they were strong enough and he felt like okay Finally, it's gonna be lethal because his last complaint with his last bomb before this hiatus was that it didn't kill anyone And so he said this time I'm gonna come back with a crazy force. So from May through December of

1985 he released bomb number eight number nine number ten and number eleven four bombs from May to December Wow Yeah, and there was really no clear pattern on those either The bombs at this point were much much more sophisticated So bomb number eight were straight back back to Berkeley and this time his first bomb being back He managed to mutilate someone with his bomb. A person at UC Berkeley had picked up the package and it completely blew off his fingers. And so now he does not have fingers up until this day on one of his hands. And

it was a lot. Now at this point, there was a very intense clue that was left behind in the bombs. Again, they did not know if this was a red hearing or if this was an actual clue, but on certain parts of the bomb, like metal pieces, which means that he wanted the FBI to see this. Uh-huh. There was something, an initial F.C.

So they were thinking was that his initial or was he trying to say something? And so the FBI got together and they came up with a list of everything that has ever been published or written about or spoken about that could stand for F.C. And some of the things that they came up with were free China, first class. Way what? Yeah, free China first class way what yeah free China first class fucking crazy which like that's yeah probably false Christ failed college the irony in that one and Felix the cat but this ended up being just another dead end, like they couldn't find what the initials were.

Okay. Okay. And so inside of his journal after bomb number eight, Ted writes, listen, I was kind of bothered at the fact that I crippled the guy, but I'm not anymore. I'm no longer bothered. Honestly, I have no guilt. I have no shame and I have no sad emotions with crippling someone, with taking off their fingers. So I mean, at this point, he then continues to write in that journal of his.

And I would say it's kind of like a motivational journal at this point, right? He went from being like, I don't know why I can't do it. And now he's talking about how he said that he literally has high hopes. And now he thinks that he's ready to kill someone. He fantasizes about killing a scientist, a big businessman, a government official, or anyone of the likes. The FBI profiling gets a little more advanced, okay?

They said, listen, at first we thought he was just like a crazy bomb dude, but now we have a little more information. We think he has a white male between the ages of 35 and 45 and maybe he works at a university somewhere Was I accurate? Kind of kind of not really Okay, and then we're the god that profiling farm just studying his bombs Studying his patterns. So bomb number 10 comes around and bomb number 10 is going to be very very very interesting because I mean This is it's just weird, okay? You have a professor of psychology all of a sudden James

McConnell gets sent a package and Normally prior to all of this you were either just targeting just regular universities without a name or you were Targeting executives at airlines or you were targeting like scientists mathematicians but now you're talking psychology. I mean this it's just weird like it's kind of feeling random again and his graduate assistant opened the package and suffered a lot of injuries and they both had temporary hearing loss. Bomb number 11 was going to be very pivotal because a man by the name of Hugh Scretten, he found a paper bag near a dumpster,

and he picked it up and it was deadly. I mean, this, he really started reconstructing the bombs in a different way. So typically with a pipe bomb, you put a bomb, you put something that detonates inside of a pipe, like almost like a metal pipe that you would find under sinks. And now when that explodes, the metal from that pipe actually becomes shrapnel.

And what shrapnel is, is one of the most dangerous parts of a bomb. It's the parts where just a bunch of metal and a bunch of debris are just shooting at you. And that's why that bomb's so deadly. And they're so, so painful as a victim of one because you have so many pieces of metal and all of these things that are now almost embedded into your skin that they've just been piercing through you. But this time he decided to add additional shrapnel and he added tons of nails into it. And so Hugh was his first fatality, his first murder.

And he was actually a student when he was teaching at UC Berkeley. And I think that this was more of a personal murder than anything else. And he had written in his journal that he was very pleased at the improvement and he's a very happy person now. He's pleased.

Yeah, he's also worried. Hey, listen, what if the police are thinking that the pace is gonna pick up? I need to do something again that's gonna throw them off their tracks and I've already started sending them a letter saying Hey, who or hey this I'm RV or whatever I've also tried to put FC in there because that would throw them off. I need to do something more I can't do the same thing because maybe they'll say hey, it's gonna be a dead end anyway Let's not waste our resources.

And so on his way from Utah, back to Montana, he stopped at a bunch of public restrooms, and he would go into those restrooms and he would get tweezers, and he would pick up a bunch of pubes, pubic hair, and he would place them all along the next bomb. So suddenly from bomb 1 through 11, there was no DNA, no hair, no nothing, but all of a sudden, hell of pubes in a bomb. Bomb number 12, very pivotal. I mean every single bomb after his, I mean I don't want to say that because it makes it seem like the victims of the first couple of bombs don't matter and it's not what I'm saying, but I'm saying it's pivotal in terms of the investigation.

There's a little more. There's some big differences since when he got back from his three-year hiatus. I mean he's obviously much more sophisticated at creating these bombs but his targets are changing. Everything's kind of changing. And so bomb number 12 was in Utah, Salt Lake City. And there's a man by the name of Gary Wright and he owns a computer store. We already know how he feels about technology so let's get ready okay. Parking area of a computer store and employee goes up to Gary and says hey there's some dude in a hoodie that just put like a piece of wood near a car. Gary is thinking a piece of wood and they're like yeah I don't know and it's starting getting busy at the computer store and so they didn't go and check up on it but also who the hell would think it's a bomb like it literally looked like a piece of wood.

It didn't look like a package, it didn't look like a letter bomb, it didn't look like any of those things. And so eventually the store owner, Gary, right, he goes outside and he said the minute that he picked it up, it was like, you hear a flight or jet and you just feel this great push. He didn't end up dying, but he was very, very lucky. There was a lot of parts where it had just moved an inch. If there was a nail that just moved an inch, he would have died. And so he

had nails and all of this shrapnel just covered. His body was covered. And in that journal, after this bomb, after the news broke of this bomb and he found out what the result was. Ted said that he was not happy. Ted said, listen, this is not good enough. Was America freaking out during that time? Yeah. And this part was going to be pivotal because the employee actually saw the bomb being placed. Yeah. And so this is when the first police sketch comes out and they sketch him. He has a mustache just like Ted. He's wearing a hoodie. He's wearing aviator sunglasses, maybe around five feet, 10 inches, kind of like this reddish blonde hair. Ted's hair is actually brown but very similar. They said maybe late 20s or early 30s, so that kind of goes against left-by-profiling from earlier from 35 to 45. Yeah. So it's pretty close, USA.

Yes. And they distributed this and pretty much everybody saw this. I mean, you're talking about a case so terrorizing to the United States for how long. I mean, this has been so long at this point. Everyone saw the picture. And they got a lot of tips, but nobody really matched the profile. Now, remember Gary from bomb number 12

because this might be the only happiness later at the end of this story. So then he takes another six year hiatus. Yeah, and he comes back with bomb number 13 sent to Charles Epstein. I don't know if there's any relation to Jeffrey Epstein, but he was a geneticist, which means he really studies genetics.

And he was actually makingist, which means he really studies genetics. And he was actually making a lot of, a lot of innovative strides against Down syndrome. So he was helping a lot of people. I mean, he was essentially a doctor, right? And he had a letter bomb mailed his residents. So this is a little bit different this time. And he ended up losing his ears and his hands. Oh, man.

And a lot of people said, rightfully so, he was angry. And the world lost someone's talent. That was really great. I mean, he didn't die, but he was someone who was really helping a lot of people. And he really could no longer do that as well as he should have been able to. No.

And so then, bomb number 14, another letter bomb. And this one was very strange. It was too Connecticut. This was to Yale University. And it was sent to a computer scientist professor. This point in the investigation, I mean, in the beginning of the Unibuboos entire, I don't even know what to call it, terror in the United States, they weren't really getting a lot of tips. But at this point, they were getting non-stop tips, okay? And after the six-year hiatus, the FBI was like, we need to get the band back together. We need to get the task force back together.

And so they had the unibond task force that was rebanded. I mean, it was 150 different FBI agents, and they were been working on this diligently since then right and so then the New York Times suddenly receives a letter and it's a typewritten letter. There's really no word significance. There's really no DNA that's left in there. There's no fingerprints. There's no hairs.

There's literally nothing. They even trace down where could they buy this paper? Is it just normal printer paper? Yes. Where was it typed? Where they tried all of that and they couldn't find any of those things that they normally try to find when serial killer send letters to these big publications and so they're getting frustrated until they noticed something and they say wait a minute hold your titties well I don't think they said that but if I was in the FBI I would say that I'd say wait a minute hold titties. I found something and they hold it up and there's an indentation. So what that means is that he had probably just put another piece of paper on top of this letter before he mailed it out and

Written something again. They don't know if this is fake. They don't know if he's smart and said I'll just put an indentation and they're gonna see it and be like ah ha we caught him making a mistake right because this genuinely seems like a mistake it doesn't seem like something like I'm gonna put these initials here and they know I put the initials here and I know I put the initials here it seemed like a genuine mistake and it said call Nathan R Wednesday at 7 p.m. The FBI goes on an utter shit show rampage literally tracking down every fucking nathan are in the country and asking them if they know anyone that might be the unit boober and then also

calling them and saying hey if you get a call from wednesday at seven p.m. it doesn't matter if it's your dad calling you your daughter calling you call us because that might be the unit boober uh... and uh... they got a hell of tips. I mean thousands and thousands of people saying, hey, what name's Nathanore? Hey, my mother-in-law called me once there at 7P.M. I'm just gonna, but like lots and lots and lots and lots of tips. And no, solution.

And they came to the conclusion that they got played. I mean, the Unibubber had ton to them. No freaking way. Freakin' way. Oh My god this guy is just really I get it now. He's like FBI's are just dumb. Yeah Wow because also imagine like if you ever see on the news or the newspaper I don't mean I don't think he'd have a TV but like newspaper Imagine just reading everyone being like is your name Nathan are Call the FBI right now and he's just like losers.

Losers, losers, losers. And so, bomb number 15, it's gonna get really bad. It's gonna get really weird. This is gonna take place in New Jersey. So we have a man by the name of Thomas Moser. Now, Thomas Moser is a very high profile PR executive. He is an executive at one of the biggest ad agencies in the world at that time. And he was kind of working hand in hand with Exon, which is the gas, like Exon mobile,

like the gas, right? The gas stations or whatever, the oil miners. I'm not exactly sure what they're, I'm sure they're more than just gas stations, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so he said, okay, I have this entire thing ready. I kind of want to target Exxon mobile. But I don't want to just do it. Like I normally do. And so he says, I'm going to pretend to write a book. I'm going to kind of plan a seat. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to mail a letter to Thomas Moser so he doesn't get paranoid because these days people are getting paranoid if they get mailboxes from people they weren't expecting Yeah, and so they mail him and says hey lesson I'm writing a book about environmental issues and I think Exxon mobile has lots of environmental issues And I kind of want you to see if you have any comments for them if they want to add any comments into the book because I have written about them

By name inside of this environmental book and he sent that letter. Now what that was going to do is if he said, hey, I wrote this glowing book about Exxon, obviously they might not read it. But if they're saying, hey, I'm literally going to rip your company apart and you're the ad agency that works for them, you know, rip this company apart in this book that I'm writing. Just be on the lookout for it. If you have any comments you'd like to add, let me know before I publish this book where I'm just going to be dragging you. I mean, you're going to be more inclined to open that book. And so later, he mails the book and he's killed. So he set up a trap. Yeah. He mailed the letter first and then mailed the book because a lot of people were very scared

of opening packages like that, especially from people they weren't expecting packages from. It was in his residence where his daughter and his wife were in the kitchen with him. They were not killed, they were injured, but they saw their closest loved one get murdered by this bomb. Oh my gosh.

So this is the second murder. And at this point, the FBI said, okay, we have a $1 million reward for anyone who can bring us the Unibuber. Is it rude? Am I getting a cancel for calling in the Unibuber? I don't want it to be rude to the victims. As if I'm just acting like this dude is not the crazy genius maniac

psychopath that he is. But at the same time, Unibomar sounds cooler than Unibubar and I don't want him to be cool. And I think later we'll get into that, but I think he thinks that he's like the picture of a revolution. So, Unibubar it is! Texas. Now we're going to Texas, not because there's a bomb in Texas because there's a very important person in Texas.

David. David Kaczynski. Young Dave. This is the David that his brother to Ted. This is the younger brother of Ted. He had moved to Texas. He was living his life there. He was married. And really, this is the first time that he was hearing about the unibomor. He really didn't read a lot of the news. They were also living a relatively isolated life in Texas him and his wife. And so he sees a newspaper, he sees the police sketch, and he sees that an ad agency executive had been murdered by the unibomber and he's just like, that's crazy, right? Yeah. And the crazy thing is that David's wife always, always hated Ted. She had never met Ted, but she always hated him,

because Ted hated her. Ted said that the minute that his younger brother got married, he had settled into that middle class conventional lifestyle. He didn't want more for the world. He didn't care about any big issues in the world. He didn't care about philosophy. He didn't care about any big issues in the world. He didn't care about philosophy. He didn't care about the environment. He just paycheck to paycheck, just living a life like a mindless human being in this system. I believe her name was Linda, the wife, right? Because

he was just like, she ruined him. He refused to come to their wedding, even though the rest of the family showed up. He refused to visit him in Texas, and a lot of the times he would send scathing letters to Texas for David, his brother, and his sister-in-law to breed about how much he hates them. Yeah, the unibomber had cut ties with most of his family, so when he was busy bombing the ad agency and all of these places places his family was barely hearing from him. They weren't having a great life together. Linda, David's a wife. Can't try to talk to David because she's like, you know, I think your brother's ill.

I think your brother's mentally ill. Yeah. And David would say, you've literally never met him. Like how can you say that about someone you've never met? Yeah. But look at the letters he's sending. That's not something someone who's healthy in the mind sends. And it was really easy for David and his parents to not really listen to her because at the

end of the day, they thought that was a genius. Some people believe there is a bloodline between being a genius and something's wrong with you. While that's happening in Texas, everybody in the press, everybody in media, everybody in the FBI starts really labeling Ted Kaczynski as an anarchist, which means that he has a belief. He's not committing these crimes because he gets off on it. He's not getting off on the murder itself.

He's not getting off on becoming a serial killer. He's not assaulting anyone. He genuinely is doing a lot of these crimes to get attention for a cause. His entire thing was technology sucks, it's going to be the downfall for humans and nature and we've got to do anything in our power to kill technology before it kills us. And so he sends the New York Times a letter in April of 1995, a three-page letter. And he starts taking credit for all the bombs. And he says, I will continue.

If you and all the other major news networks publish and manifesto that I'm going to send you, demanding people to have a revolution against this system and against technology and the industrial system, if you don't publish it, then I will continue sending bombs. But I want you to do it. So think about it, I'm going to send you the manifesto. And he says also, the FBI is trying to portray us

as one loony tune, but actually know we're a group of people. So it's not. The unibomor set that to throw the FBI off their track, but also to make people once they read the manifesto to feel like this is a group. You know, this is a group of people trying to do something. They said that the group is called SC for the Freedom Club, FSC in all of those bombs. Freedom Club and they are environmental anarchist. Just stay weighted for that manifesto they said.

And before he even sends the fucking manifesto, he's like, but I want to get another bomb in. So he sends one more bomb to, this is number 16, the last bomb, to the Timber Association of California. Timber. So they're cutting down trees. Gilbert was the president of the timber association of California. And he opened the bomb. He was the third victim. Yeah. And at this point, Dave's wife, David's wife is reading all these articles. And she starts getting this weird feeling. I mean, she genuinely cracked the case. Okay, the FBI did not crack the case. It was Ted's younger brothers, white, there's Ted's sister-in-law that cracked the case.

Oh. She's reading all these articles and she, I mean, the New York Times letter was posted everywhere. The, hey, if you don't post my manifesto, I'm a bomb-worship, right? Like, that was posted everywhere. And she's reading it and she's like, oh, I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. And she looked really stressed for like weeks, right? And David's like, I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. And she looked really stressed for like weeks, right? And David was like, hey honey, like what's wrong? You seem weird these days. She's like, okay, you know, I just have to tell you,

do you think your brother's a unabomber? And he's like, oh my God, sweetie. Thank God, I thought something had happened. You're okay. My brother's crazy. Yes all those letters. He sent us Unacceptable so rude. I'm so sorry honey. Yeah, but Ted there's no way Ted's a unibomber Yeah, and he refused to believe her

Now during this time Ted was really busy riding up his manifesto He sent out five copies all across to some of the biggest major news networks And all of them read it and they said listen this is very competent like you can tell that this is not some loony tune in like a wood somewhere Like this is a very academic scholarly writer like he's not talking like he's just Delusional like he's not talking about how technology is gonna infiltrate our brains over We're all just gonna be like little You know, it's very very academically strong All of the points academically are very strong if it wasn't coming from someone who was making bomb threats and sending bombs

And so it was just kind of difficult stuff and it gets even more difficult because the FBI has to think about if They're gonna let these news networks release the manifesto. On one hand, you release the manifesto and you are essentially advertising for a terrorist. And on top of that, this actually because of how well written it is, people are not just going to dismiss it. I mean, people might really run with it. It really might start a violent revolution because what he was calling for in the manifesto wasn't, hey guys, let's just all talk about how we don't like what's going on.

It was like, let's fucking have violent protests and fuck shit up until they listen to us. It was not like a, we need to call our, you know, district attorneys. We need to call our council members and tell them how we feel. It was like, we need to rise together and burn the shit down. Like it was very insightful. Yeah. And so they were like, okay, that's another thing that we find to be very dangerous.

But at the same time, if we don't, what if he keeps killing more people and what if we never get a chance again? I mean, if this had just been like a year-long process, maybe the FBI will be like, we'll take our chances and catch that motherfucker. But it's been like a year-long process, maybe the FBI will take our chances and catch that motherfucker, but it's been like 17 years, I think they kinda had their tail between their legs and they were like,

I don't know dude, I don't know if we'll ever catch him. And they sat down for a furious debate between the task force, and at the end of the meeting, they said, okay, we should not publish it. And right after the meeting was adjourned, they all sat there. And one person said, that's the wrong decision. And they all like to each other. And they said, yeah, that's the wrong fucking decision.

Because people would die more people would die. No, because they said, this is such a high profile case. Yeah, something that long. It was five. I mean, I think it was 3,500 words or something. I thought it was a long-ass manifesto That getting out someone in the country must know someone who has those exact beliefs or talks like that It's gonna lead them to the unibomber So they should they think they should for that reason because like if I'm constantly talking about mukbang And I always say this and then I send something to the press that's like,

this, I don't fucking care beats. And then they're like, who's this? I'm sure a lot of people would be like, oh, I think I heard her say that word a lot, right? And so because of that, they had it sent out and it became a thing. Now, it was kind of suppressed in certain areas. So in Texas, David was having a really hard time

getting his hands on a copy. His wife kept saying, hey, I heard they're releasing the manifesto like you got to read it What if it is your brother Ted and he was like it's not my brother Ted and she was like But what if it is go get one and he's like okay? Okay? Okay? Fine So he was looking for a copy of that newspaper just to read the manifesto But there was only like six copies right What do you mean six in that area of Texas. Yeah, so it seems like some areas just okay. Yeah, and so he gets it. Now the manifesto really, it started just talking about how the

industrial revolution is leading to widespread suffering. It's becoming an indignified thing for humans. It's causing lots of psychological harm to humans. He said that it's crazy because science is marching on blindly without any regard to humans. Technology is marching blindly. All they care about is just going forward without even thinking about all the repercussions. And so he's really advocating for a revolution. So Dave sits down. Linda's literally just like so nervous sitting behind him like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, what if it is, what if it is? And he reads it and he goes, okay, so I will say,

it kind of sounds like Ted, but this is not new information. There's already a bunch of people, I think there was called like Earth First was an organization where they do a bunch of like blockades and they go to like the lumber areas and they try to stop them from cutting down trees and they'll like climb up the tree and shit, you know. So they're like, this is not a new idea. So even if Ted thinks this way, it's not Ted and he was like, maybe like one and I don't

know, one in thousands. Is there a chance that this is Ted? She's like, okay, well, I have this one friend. And I'm Susan, and she's a PI. Oh, I'm gonna ask her to analyze the letters. If you're okay with it, Dave. And I'm gonna ask her to analyze the letters that your brother has sent us over the years and the manifesto and see if she thinks anything. And we're also looking like, if you're okay with it, Dave,

maybe we can even pinpoint the dates Maybe if he had sent you a letter from Montana But then a bomb happened in fucking California that wasn't mailed and he placed it then of course it can't be tied Yeah, because he had just sent you a letter. Well, she's got a full-line investigation Yeah, and then also he's like I mean, I guess that's true There are similarities that's like he did study at UC Berkeley and the University of Michigan. So there's that, but like, not Northwestern

and what about the airlines? I mean, there's just like just enough to make him go, ugh, like, okay, I can kind of see, ugh, right? They send the letters to her friend and she realizes this one word, stinking. The word is stinking. Because Tata had a sense of a letter to the family saying, I'd rather just cut off this entire stinking family than deal with whatever blah, blah, blah. And in the manifesto, it says, it is better

to cut out the stinking system before it ruins a solid or something like that. And it's just a weird word to use. It wasn't like trendy back in the day. It wasn't like simp back in the day Wasn't anything like that. It's just kind of a weird word. She was like, okay. Well, that's weird don't you think Dave? Yeah, I think it's a little weird fine. Okay call the FBI And so they call the FBI, but it's not one of those things, you know They don't really have like a DM. They don't really have like a direct number. And just because you call them, they're not gonna be like, oh my god.

They get so many leads, right? Yeah. And so they call a division of the FBI and they list them as a suspect. But that suspect list, the formal suspect list, because they also have a list of people that are just persons of interest, a formal suspect list for the unibomber was 2,417 people long and Ted Kaczynski, the real

unibomber, was number 2,416 on that suspectalist. And so there was gonna be a lot of digging and it was gonna be a lot of time before the unibomber got caught until their mom got sick. Mrs. Kaczynski got sick and she ended up having to go to the hospital. And so Dave flew from Texas to go visit his mom in the hospital and at the time he decided to stay in the childhood house where his mom was staying and just kind of sleep there

because what's the point in getting a hotel. And while he was there, he started going through some stuff, just cleaning the attic, and he found a letter that Ted Kaczynski had sent his own mother. Uh-huh. And it was like talking about his ideas about the world, and it literally was pretty much a draft of the manifesto.

It was almost like a pre-manifesto. And so he sent this letter to the FBI, Ted Kaczynski is immediately, It was almost like a pre manifesto. And so he sent this letter to the FBI Ted Kaczynski is immediately their number one suspect because they said this is the enabomer. This is his writing. This is the way he talks. This is our profile of him. So the brother immediately made a decision at that point.

And he said it was a hard decision. And he always, every time, he just kept thinking about how he promised to never abandon his brother. And the crazy thing is, Ted was really mean. Ted set some shady shit to his brother and his wife. But Dave, like anyone you knew that talk to Dave, new Dave, Dave always maintained love and admiration for his brother.

Wow. He even when his brother was like, your wife sucks. He would say things like, he's just, you have to get used to him. He just has to meet you. He's just like that. I'm so sorry. He's just kind of like a, you know, he has always had this thing for his brother. And so at that point, the FBI realized they cannot arrest him.

They cannot arrest Ted because it's not enough evidence. There's literally no evidence other than just a linguistic analysis, which really is not a lot to convict someone of 16 bombs and three murders. Yeah. At that point, they said, okay, we're going to approach the neighbors. So they fly into Montana and they talk to all of the neighbors and all of them are like, what? You think Ted's the unabomber you're crazy. So they fly into Montana and they talk to all of the neighbors and all of them are like, what?

You think Ted's the unabomber? You're crazy. You must have, you're upside down in some snow dude because you can't think straight FBI man because Ted is not a unabomber. What are you talking about? And they're like, just, we know he is, okay. And so he talks to one of them and says, okay, can you go near Ted's cabin and just secretly record the terrain?

Don't go inside. Just literally outside of the cabin. So the FBI just kind of wanted to get an idea of what was going on so that they weren't on foreign land. So when they do try to get a search warrant or if they swat his house, so they said that they can't arrest him, but they got a search warrant. But they needed to do it aggressively because you're not talking about some dude who like is credit card fraud.

I mean, you're talking about a bomber. And so they said they just kind of need to know the terrain, just make sure they're not blind sighted. Nothing happens. There's no way he could hide, et cetera, et cetera. And so they said, okay, so they get that video recording and they facilitate a search warrant. And when I say facilitate, I'm talking, they brought in from all around the country a plain full of agents to Montana FBI agents and the entire SWAT team from San Francisco was brought in to do this April 3rd of

1996 they rated the captain and they arrested him and it was a relatively easy arrest now It's crazy is that he looked like a mountain man. I mean I saw pictures and videos of him getting arrested and he looks, I mean he just looks weird. He does not look like if someone told me that was a Harvard graduate and a mathematician, I would bet my money that he wasn't. He looked, just rugged. His hair was all grown out. They said the layers of dirt on his skin were getting crusty. I mean the dude was gross looking. he was just really living that secluded life, and he was looking like a mountain man.

The FBI promised David and his wife that they wouldn't release all of that information that they gave them. But the press somehow found out about it, and by that I mean probably the FBI told them. And they said something that really bothered David, was they made it seem like the family fingered him, is and they said something that really bothered David was they made it seem like the the family Fingered him is what they said meaning like the family saw a picture. Oh, saw this all that and said oh that's him and pointed at him But David was like I think they're not realizing the intensity of a decision like that I don't think they realize that that tore me apart. I don't think they realized the pain They just say I pointed it out to the FBI. I like, no, that was one of the hardest things I've

ever done in my life. And so he's kind of upset by that. And so he gets arrested. Ted, they're going through the shed. And it's a fucking gold mine of evidence. He even had like a homemade guns in the shed. Yeah. and they're going through his bed. And right under the bed they open a box and inside the box is another box. And inside the another box is a box shaped shiny object that's just covered in aluminum foil. Literally they're just going through them stuff. It just seems ordinary and all of them stop. They look at each other. And they scoot the box back in under the bed. And they all clear the room.

There was a bomb? Yeah. Where? Under his bed. So Ted had written that once the weather clears up, that was his next bomb ready to go. Which I think there's a lot of things that are very scary with that.

Which is who the fuck sleeps with a bomb under their own bed. Oh, that bomb was ready to blow. Wow. I mean, I guess he must have that much confidence in his own bombs that it wouldn't detonate before something happened. So they put the bomb back into the bed. And I'm sure the bomb squad showed up.

Nobody got injured, yeah. But it was just the fact that, you know, when David heard this, he was very glad. Because he felt like, okay, maybe I did make the right decision, because maybe there would have been another death, and I prevented it. Yeah. And yeah, I lost my brother, because now he's facing a death penalty, but I prevented a death. And the attorney's, you know, Ted kept asking his attorneys, like, how did they find me? Does it make sense? I covered all my tracks. I did this. I did that. And the attorneys told him well sources are saying that a family member gave you up. A family member, your brother, and his direct words were, that's not possible. David loves me.

Yeah. So Ted was really sad when he found out that his brother turned him in. Are you kidding me? And he stopped talking to his family at that point. Now this is where it gets weird. The trial is so weird, dude. The trial's weird. So the trial's happening. I mean, he is facing the death penalty.

He doesn't want to die. He really does not want to die. And his attorneys are saying, okay, here's the perfect way not to die. You look like a lunatic. You were found in a shed in the middle of the woods with no running water, no electricity. You look like a lunatic. You look crazy, dude. So we're going to say you're fucking crazy. And he would say, you do that. And I fire you. They're like, what do you mean? This is literally the only defense that we could even pull out of our ass because

you're the amount of evidence You fucking logged all of your feelings about the crime. Okay, it's one thing to accidentally do something But you literally wrote in writing about how you were disappointed that you didn't kill enough people I mean the gig is up dude. You're going to die like we need to do something And he said no if you say that I'm a lunatic, if you try to plea insanity, then that means all of my life's work is going to go down the drain. No one will ever think I'm trying to start a revolution. No one will ever get together trying to bring down the industrial system in my name because I'm

just some fucking loony tune from the woods, the woods, the woods. Yeah, and so they said, okay, that's very difficult. I don't know how to tell you this Ted, but we were so excited about the insanity plea that we flew your cabin from Montana to Sacramento because we wanted to show the jury that no sane person could live in a cabin like that. They freaking moved the whole house. Yeah, they got a helicopter to put it on to a cargo truck.

Oh my God. And I mean, it was that small of a shed, but they're like, that's kind of awkward, because we brought your shed. Good insanity defense. And Ted's like, I'm going to ask you to, because I'm not insane. They had a 20-hour psychological review and a psychologist deemed him competent to stand trial, but also competent to be sentenced to death. However, plot twist, he was also at the same time diagnosed with schizophrenia.

Really now? Yeah. The defense starts, the trial starts, and instead of outright saying insanity because technically they can't't but also Ted would fire them They started playing for the experiment that was their entire defense of trial Listen this Harvard experiment for three years that have never been seen by the public this this killed him This forked his brain up this triggered his schizophrenia This triggered all of the things that you see in him, his distrust, his anger, his extremity, all of this. Crazy thing is that all the fires, all the files, are sealed to the public even to this day. So other than a couple snippets here and there, we really don't know

the extent of what those two hundred hours did. But I'm sure a lot of it was shown in trial. They were also saying like listen, he was 16, 17 at the time, he wasn't even 18 and he had built his entire life on being smart. I mean, I just just didn't make any sense. And even the attorneys asked, hey, why do you put up with it? Like after like two weeks, I think I'd be annoyed at someone screaming at me saying, I'm an idiot. Like like why'd you keep going and he would say He would say things like well. I wanted to show them that I can't be broken Which I just thought it was weird. It seems like he has this very

Extremist personality and I think this just Exacerbated it just made it so much worse and what they were trying to argue is that this fuel the fire I mean what do you do as someone who has built your entire identity on being smart? And now someone comes in and just tries to destroy it. Instead of letting it destroy you, most of the time these people, they will fight back. They'll get rigid, they'll get hostile,

they'll get angry. And now at such a developmental age, you've taught him nothing else other than the fact that if someone disagrees with you fight with violence fight with anger fight with aggression fight as hard as you can and don't listen to where they have to say Yeah, yeah, and the crazy thing is Ted to this day says nah that experiment didn't fuck me up at all I Mean at one point in the trial he tried to fire fire his counsel. The judge was like, you can't fire your attorneys. And then he's like, fine, then I'll represent myself. And the judge was like, no, you can't do that either, Ted.

And then he tried to hang himself. And then they were like, no, you can't do that either because now you're on suicide watch. And so eventually in the trial, even before it ended, he pleaded guilty in exchange for life in prison. They started doing all these victim impact statements and so all of these survivors would come and they would talk about their experience and he was already sentenced to life in prison. And a lot of people asked him like what did that feel like to finally hearing the victims

of your bombs? And he said well it was the damnest thing. I mean they brought in all these people who are weeping and wailing but the plea deal is already arranged so what's the point of them doing that? This guy is freaking nuts. Yeah. Like saying like, what do you mean I'm already going to prison? So what's the point?

Like you're not changing anything by crying. It's like what he was trying to say, which I think is freaking scary. But the crazy thing is, after being an ADX Supermax prison where he will be for the rest of his life, he's actually inside of a lot of people to follow his lead. So almost immediately after, in Vale, Colorado, which is like a bougie resort area, whiskey, resorts, and stuff, they burnt down, I think, like, a $15 million resort.

No, they caused that much in damage. The resort was worth way more. And they said that is because the resort was going to bring damage to wildlife and wilderness. I mean, there's definitely a lot of people that are very, very moving by Ted. So he's writing. I believe he's somehow published a book from prison.

You can do that. And the warden said the warden, the leader, the principal of ADX Supermax. So that after reading it, he said that Ted is like 90% there. I mean, it makes sense. You know, he says that everything he is saying is dangerous, is actually dangerous. Technology is dangerous to the human race. But you know, violence is not the answer. It's what he is saying is dangerous, is actually dangerous. Technology is dangerous to the human race.

But you know, violence is not the answer, is what he's saying. He's like, honestly, if I read this in an academic journal somewhere, I'd be praising the shit out of Ted. But because I'm reading it from one of my inmates, I can't. Like, it's just, he's really smart. And people say that, you know, he's a model inmate most of the time.

And he actually thrives off of being in solitary. So it doesn't seem like he's losing his marbles being completely alone. At the end of the day, I know it seems like Ted is, you know, I get it. Essentially with climate change going on, it feels like, oh no, we somewhat have some pull towards Ted. Like, oof, I get it. Like the world is getting destroyed. But at the same time, you have to remember, one of the families of the victims, because of the bomb, had nothing to bury, but his feet. They had no other part of his body. Like, that's how deadly they were.

And there are just as much as there are victims, such as wildlife and nature, to technology, there were a lot of victims from Ted. Do you remember Gary, from the electronics store, the computer store? Yes. Who picked up the wood? He is actually really good friends with David now. That's weird. Yeah, and it's, I mean, it's, it's very heartwarming because David would call him and keep trying to

make up for Ted's wrongdoings. And Gary had to tell him, listen, this is not your burden to carry. This is not you, this was your brother. And like David was just so distraught and torn by everything that he just was losing himself to it to the guilt, even though it wasn't him. And so they became really close friends. Tell me in the comments. No comments.

There are no comments like. Tell me what you think of this case. It's kind of crazy. What I think. Yeah. So fascinating and strange and like, yeah, like you say, people believe his belief is right. But I don't know.

It's just to me, this is such a weird case in terms of thinking. Yeah. A constantly thinking is this what being a genius feels like. You're just constantly thinking about these crazy ideas and thoughts and you go so extreme and so above and so beyond. To me, it sounds like wow, being a genius is very scary. Yeah, because I think the part with him is like he skipped all the other parts. So maybe it's because he's so smart.

So my first thinking is like if I have a problem with something, I think there's a lot of other ways than like creating bombs in a wooden shed. Probably like trying to reach out to council members, trying to do this, trying to do that, peaceful protesting, right? But his, the way that he talks about it was, nothing will change unless you force it. And the only way to force it is to cause so much tension. See like, which I don't agree with. Yeah.

But like, is that how they think like yeah, but like you know like If he's like so crazy, but you see like the reasoning behind what he's saying right? I'm not saying like any of these is right but but down this guy is Mine fucking the way that he does things and Literally the definition of right spirit, right idea, really wrong execution. Yeah, like literally any he just out there trying to kill anybody. He wants the fear.

Yeah, he wants the fear so much that people will do something to alleviate that fear because he knows humans can't work under that type of fear. Mm hmm. He sounds like the ultimate villain in the Super Show movie. Yeah. Like no emotion. They're like, I just want the world to be this way like Thanos. Yeah.

So I'm gonna wipe off half the freaking universe so that people can thrive. Yeah, that's so true. I mean, I see. But then people, even with Thanos, people was like, I can see, you know, you write people even with that house because I can see you know Yeah, he wants to do that you know his intention is to help people yeah, but that chindo You know that you know Damn hot so he's in jail. Yeah, he's in ADX super max He's one of the most notorious killers in the fact that he acts.

In a lot of serial killer cases, I like to say that they are a product of their environment and their trauma. Yeah. With him, I feel like he's a product of his own brain. Yeah, he environment. Environment, all of that plus his brain. Yeah, his brain. That's scary.

It sounds like we admire him, but we don't listen. I'm calling him Uniboot, okay. But I mean, I don't know. I hope you guys enjoyed today's podcast. It was all over the place. I wanted to get through all of the bombings because I thought each and every single one was very important to the story, but let me know what are your thoughts on this. I hope you guys enjoyed, and I'll see you guys next Wednesday for hump day.

Oh. your thoughts on this. I hope you guys enjoyed and I'll see you guys next Wednesday for hump day.