Rotten Mango - #40- The Trash Chute Murder (Mysterious Death of Phoebe Handsjuk)

Episode Date: February 18, 2021

A woman falls feet first down a 12 story trash chute to her death. The police are quick to determine it's a suicide or accidental death.  But there are still more questions than answers: 1. How did she fit herself into a garbage chute that has an opening the size of a laptop? 2. Why were her jeans pulled down below her knees? 3. Who is her boyfriend and why are people suspicious of him? The deeper you go into the case the less you feel like you know... To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's rude to the trash can. I know. So today's case is going to be really confusing because you need to keep picturing in your mind a garbage shoot. So do you know what I'm talking about? The ones at the apartments, those metal doors. So it's not necessarily a metal door. The way that it works is that in all the apartments that I've ever resided in, they had this multiple level garbage

drop slash shoot slash trash room, rubbish room, whatever you wanna call it. It's like this small square room. You open the door to it from the hallway, and usually each floor has one, and they all connect down to the main ground, where there's like a trash compact at the bottom. Now it's usually like this metal square that's bolted on the wall.

It doesn't stick out, it doesn't go in. It's just like a metal square, and you pull on the handle and it kind of opens Like a mailbox like a mailbox. Yeah, it's exactly it opens like that if you even let it go for point two seconds It will slam shut so for me throwing out the trash was like the biggest hassle in the world because you're trying to Put this garbage bag in there before it slams shut sometimes it's slamming shut on your garbage bag And you got to like try to open it again, Sometimes it's slamming shut on your garbage bag and you've got to like try to open it again and it's incredibly heavy. And for those reasons, you send me to do it.

Precisely. And you know, it connects to the bottom. So you've got this opening. This one in particular that we're talking about today has an opening that's a little bit wider than like a 13 inch MacBook. It's got like a 14 inch opening, okay? And it's so when you mean when you open the trash shoe, yeah, entrance, yes, it's like a MacBook size. Yes, but you have to remember that this is a heavy metal door and it's spring loaded. So if you like over 0.2 seconds, it's lay on shuts on its own. Yes. Now, the reason that they do that is because your trash, once you put it in, it falls to the bottom level, whether you're on the 30th floor, the 40th floor, the 2nd floor. It's going to fall down to the ground where they have most of the times a compactor, which

is this device that squishes your trash, squeezes it completely tight, and then there's sometimes will typically a blade so that it can kind of chop it up And then it goes into other bins underneath and then those bins get taken out Oh, it doesn't just go straight into a giant trash can no because that would be so much trash imagine a Building with maybe let's say the last apartment building we lived in had like what 40 floors Yeah, yeah, I had like a bajillion people living on it. So imagine all those trash bags just kind of plop onto each other. No, it compacts. It squishes it.

It compacts it. Yeah, and there's blades involved. And not so if I accidentally drop in there, which someone did in today's case, and maybe it wasn't an accident. Oh my goodness. So it's like a slide, but with this is some final destination type of. Yes, so that's why they make that door

the way that it is. So kids can't fall in there so that it's incredibly difficult. That's why it's actually even like sometimes, I believe it's anywhere between two to three feet off the ground too. So like a little kid can't come in and just, like you got to be a full grown adult to do it. And I being a full grown adult,

I have trouble opening that door. So usually I send my fiancee, I'll send him. I'll send this man's right here. So that's kind of the story that we have today. It's a really intense one. There are lots of people involved. There's a lot of scandal involved. There's lots of people who end up suspiciously

dead under suspicious circumstances, and it's just mind-boggling the extent of this case. I don't even know how to sum it up. I know a lot of people love like a quick little one-minute summary before the case starts. This is just gonna blow your mind. It's fucking bonkers, and it's infuriating on so many levels. So let's talk about Phoebe handsjuck. I feel like I'm saying her name wrong handsjuck, right? When she passed away, you thought it was kind of like a one incident type of thing and you don't really suspect anyone involved even though you kind of do.

But then eventually this person goes on to move on with their lives and then and then someone else that's very close to them dies. It under suspicious circumstances. So we're talking about a guy who dates two women and they both end up dead in Australia and guess what both his parents are judges okay so let's talk about Phoebe Handstruck because this the story is incredibly intense so Phoebe she was always known to be like a happy active girl she played soccer she was really popular growing Phoebe, she was always known to be like a happy, active girl. She played soccer.

She was really popular growing up. I mean, she was really active. I wouldn't even just say that she played soccer. She did karate. She did kickboxing. She was incredibly creative. People said she was kind of one of those like artist type souls. You know how you meet some people

and you're just like, you have to create something. Like, I don't know if it's music, I don't know if it's a painting, but you just have like all of these non-basic thoughts and you just just like, you have to create something. Like, I don't know if it's music, I don't know if it's a painting, but you just have like all of these non-basic thoughts and you just think different and I just feel like you're on a different wavelength than me. You know, you know those people? Yeah, Phoebe was one of those people. She was just so good at writing.

She was good at painting. She would, she was an avid journaler. She passed away, sadly, when she was 23 years old, but up until the day that she passed away, she was every day had this journal. She would day that she passed away, she was every day. Had this journal, she would write in it every single day, doesn't matter what's happening, what's going on. If there's nothing to write about, she would always write in that journal.

Her mom actually called her the Tiger Cub because she was just such a vivacious, full of life person. She was just kind of described as a wild child. I feel like I need to put in all of this positives because we live in a world We live in a society where if we don't do that people just point out the negatives When she was 13 years old things started getting a little bit weird in Phoebe's life So she started hanging out with a group of people who decided that they were gonna go clubbing at 13 years old So they got these fake IDs. They would go to these bars. They would get drunk

lots of underage drinking and at 14 her grandma mentioned her being quite hormonal Romantic, intuitive and very sensitive by the time that she was 15 years old She started hanging out with more of a wrong crowd and started experimenting with drugs So a lot of men were obsessed with her. That was kind of like what was happening with Phoebe She was beautiful outgoing and active and she kind of had what was happening with Phoebe. She was beautiful, outgoing, and active And she kind of had this like mysterious vibe about her. All these men were like, oh my god. She's so mysterious I mean, I do have to add that she was underage so like I don't know what's so mysterious about being underage And like that's illegal, but whatever they were just like she's so mysterious. I love it so much

So all of these men would constantly offer Phoebe free drugs and she would take it because she's a teenager and she doesn't really know better so she starts doing these drugs and she never really stayed in like a crazy committed relationship because you know, she's a wilds free spirit. Now Phoebe had a thing where she was infatuated with older men. That was her thing, she loves older guys, which is completely fine, but she was under age at the time.

And it's kind of interesting because there's a pattern in the family. So Phoebe's dad is 14 years older than Phoebe's mom, and Phoebe's grandpa is 11 years older than Phoebe's grandma. So I don't know if it was like a, she just saw that kind of age difference growing up. So she was like, oh no, in a relationship, there must be an age difference. I'm not entirely sure if just, I don't know. I just thought it was a weird pattern to point out. There could be some influence, right? Yeah, a little bit, right? Not saying like they were like you should date someone older, but you know, just seeing it.

So Phoebe's mom also was in a relationship when she was 16 years old with a teacher who was twice her age. Before she got married, she was only 16. When Phoebe's mom didn't even have Phoebe and she was 16 years old, she was in a relationship with a teacher Which is kind of strange because as 16 years old, Phoebe would enter in an illegal relationship with a teacher who is two times her age I mean, I couldn't really find out a lot of information about this relationship I think primarily because I don't think there was any court documents about it I don't think there were any rest or even though it was incredibly illegal and was any court documents about it. I don't think there were any rest, or even the way it was incredibly illegal. And it just seems really weird. So at 16, she like ends updating her teacher, and he briefly moved in at one point, which I think is a little weird. But she also went on anti-depressants around this age. And her parents didn't like her being

on medication. And I know what you're going to say, but it's not for those reasons. So the parents were kind of against her being on these anti-depressants because first of all, her dad is a psychiatrist and he just felt like she was self-medicating. Like she wasn't taking it the way that it was prescribed. Like if the doctor had said take it twice a day, she would sometimes randomly stop and not take it

from multiple days and then randomly get back on it and then try to be like, ooh, I missed a couple of dosages. So I gotta just take them all at once. And so it wasn't the fact that he was upset that she was on meds, but the fact that she wasn't taking it as it should have been taken. Now, what's even more fascinating, and I think it's really admirable,

is that the dad refused to be her psychiatrist, which imagine how hard it is. Like, you're the parent, you're like, I can do the best, I know how to fix my kid, but he had to give up all of that power because he just didn't feel like maybe Phoebe wouldn't be comfortable with him being the therapist or with, you know, he just, he wanted her to get help the right way. And so he gave up, yeah. Yeah, because can you imagine like, hey, the dasit, you can tell me anything. You know, tell me how you're feeling, how you're doing. Right.

But then I'm just thinking like, um, that's, she was a lot of control because I can only imagine so many parents they want to have that control over their kids off, because they probably think that they can do the best for the kid, right? Yeah. So I think it was really admirable. He was like, okay, you're going to go see this therapist that I think is going to be okay for you. And then the parents ended up getting a divorce when Phoebe was a teenager. And she took the divorce super hard. Like she just was not into it. She did not talk to her dad for a while. And she actually got really close with her grandma during this time. Her grandmother's name was Jeanette. She was also a very creative person. Like she's

the type of grandma that'd be like, when I did LSD back in the day. Like she's not the type of grandma that's like, you know, just telling you old stories that you don't care about. They're just like telling you some crazy ass shit. And you're just like grandma, we're at the dinner table. You can't be talking about that. And so, you know, they got along really well.

And I think both of them, both of them were really sensitive to the world. That's kind of all of the sources that I could find. That's what they say. There's even a book about this. There's a crazy good podcast called Phoebe's Fall and it's intense. So they were both very, very sensitive to the world. They're a little more emotional and I think a lot of the times creative people tend to be

more emotional and so they kind of fit that build. You're sensitive. But I'm not as creative as I'm, I don't think. You're definitely sensitive. But I'm definitely sensitive creative as I don't think You're definitely sensitive I'm definitely sensitive, yeah, yeah, definitely emotional And so I relate I like while I was listening to all of this on the Phoebe's fall podcast I related so hard cuz I was like I am emotional And so during this time she's 23 years old and she meets a guy at Lindley Godfrey's hair salon

What a freaking name, okay? So this is like a celebrity hair stylist super upscale hair salon. I'm talking Probably like a couple hundred dollars to get a trim type place. Don't quote me on that I actually should have gone on their website, but I don't know okay And so she was working as a receptionist at this very fancy hair salon when this man walks in in, he's in his 40s, he's very attractive, very handsome, very fit, and his name is Ant. He says, hey, I'm Ant, and they start talking and talking, and then they eventually start dating.

Now, what's the deal with Ant? You ask, right? I believe it's pronounced Antony. I keep wanting to say Antony, but he goes by Ant, okay? He was in his 40s. He was an award-winning event promoter I don't even know what that means like I'm just imagining like a club promoter But like a crazy event promoter so he worked with people like Nicole Kidman Michael Jackson

ACDC so like he had a lot of celebrity clients So I don't think he was a club promoter. I think he was like a rich regular promoter I don't know what that means okay Okay. And so he had this entire successful life he lived in this crazy upscale condo. He had his life together, his parents or judges. I mean, everything about him just seemed really put together. Whereas you have Phoebe, who's kind of going through the journey of life. I mean, she's 23. Like, what do you expect? She doesn't know what's going on right now. She's trying to figure it out. She's trying to see what is fulfilling for her, which wants to do for a living. Like, where does she stand in this world? Like, she's going on right now, she's trying to figure it out, she's trying to see what is fulfilling for her, what she wants to do for her living, like where does she stand in this world?

Like she's going through all of this. And so I think maybe it was attractive to her, like, oh, wow, this guy's like so stable. Like maybe this is like the rock that I need while I'm going through like this tumultuous time, right? So they start dating and within about five months, she moves in with him. Now, to be fair though, I know what you're thinking. She's not a gold digger. She actually was paying rent. So it wasn't like that she was free loading. She wasn't like, let me just live with you

for free because I love your condo. Now, and though on the other hand, I don't like this guy. I'm just gonna put it out there. Complete disclaimer. His parents are charges. I'm not saying he's guilty. I'm not saying it one bit. I'm not saying it, but I don't like him.

I just do not like him, but I am not saying he's guilty. But I'm also not saying that he's not guilty. Do you give what I'm saying? I don't know what I'm saying. Okay, bye. I know. I don't know what I'm saying, but like if an attorney reaches out, I'm just saying, not guilty. So, and demanded that she quit her job.

He was like, no, that's beneath us. Like I could never date someone who's a receptionist that a hair salon. Like that would be embarrassing. Like how would I introduce you to my friends? They'd be like, oh, hi nice to meet you Phoebe. What do you do for a living? And you're gonna be like, oh, I don't even cut hair. I like appoint people to cut hair. Like he was just rude about it. Like really rude. Like what is wrong with a job like that? You know, like I don't I just don't understand what its deal is. And so he was like, you need to quit your job in order to move in with me.

Like I know that we talked about moving in together and like we want this for our relationship but you can't move in as a hair receptionist. And so she quit her job. Now he did get her a new job at like some ad agency. I don't really know what her official job title was there. I don't even think she wanted the job to be honest, but he just called it a more respectable position.

Really gross, dude, yeah. And so obviously right off the bat, there's gonna be issues in a relationship with someone like this. There was a lot. So Phoebe was really artistic. She wanted to have lots of creative things around. This kind of reminds me of us. So she is really into like having clutter

Having things that inspire her just like out on the table having journals everywhere like books everywhere You know, she wanted to be able to express herself at any time So she had like paintings everywhere right and on the other hand He wanted to live in like that hostile sterile hospital modern all white decor clean vibes Like that was his thing he would even tell his cleaner Sally. She becomes, you know, she comes up into the story later, but he told her, literally, hey, this is what I want you to do to my place. Make it look like no one lives here. Which, like, I'm not like, dogging on anyone's decor style because, like, mine's really bad.

But I just, I couldn't vibe with someone like that. Like I wouldn't wanna live in a house that's so cold, it just feels weird. And so people said that if you walked into the apartment, you would never know that Phoebe even lived here. Like you wouldn't know that she exists because it just didn't feel like Phoebe at all. It just, it was really kind of sad for a lot of Phoebe's friends who would see it.

Just kind of like, oh, like are you sure you're happy in this relationship? It almost looks like, do you even have stuff moved in? Like, what's going on? Like, I know that this isn't you, right? And so Phoebe starts experiencing more problems. She started telling her therapist during this time that aunt always made her feel stupid, always talk down to her.

And she also started getting involved with another guy. Like, she was having an affair at this time. So she had an art teacher. And she was like kind of into him. And so she emailed him and was like, Hey, do you want to have an affair with me? Like, I know you're married and I know I'm dating someone but like, do you want to have an affair with me? And she thought that it was going to work out well, but it didn't because he accused her of stalking him and then got her kicked out of the art school. So that was like a whole

ordeal, right? So, yeah. So again, it seems like I'm not saying that that was appropriate, but I'm just saying like Phoebe looks feels to me as if she's trying to discover what she wants, you know, and and wasn't really letting her do that. Once she moved into this apartment, I feel like she felt even more like suffocated and she even tried to break up with Anne multiple times. It's not the fact that she just acted like nothing was wrong. She tried to break up with him multiple times. They had major problems. First of all, always made her feel dumb. Disgusting. He was super controlling, really bad. And he also felt like she just didn't have a say in anything in life. Like anything that they did, anything that they ate, even. And he would always invite

her to these crazy fancy events, or like these fancy dinners, and she would have to borrow dresses from her friends, because she didn't have the money to buy dresses that work. He wouldn't even buy her a dress. Okay, see, that's what I'm saying. So my thing is, if you invite me to a fancy place like- No, I'm not saying you to buy me a dress, but I'm saying if I buy a dress within my budget and you don't like it, then you buy me the dress. Obviously if you're invited to-

Yeah. Obviously you buy a 23 year old girl to a very upscale event. Yeah Everybody's boring fucking Tom foreign shit. Yeah What do you expect? Yeah, you want her to pay her whole salary on the dress? Yeah, because you're embarrassed like it's one thing It's just like hey, this is the dress I can afford and you're like you look beautiful. Let's go That's another thing, you know But if you're like why are you wearing that? I don't like that, do you have anything else? Then it's like, okay, then you go buy it.

So she would always have to borrow addresses from people and I think she was just kind of feeling really, I think it was fucking with herself image, to be honest. I think she was, this is kind of what we see in a lot of, I'm not saying physically, but what I think is kind of emotionally abusive situation just seems like bad things are happening, right? And so she starts acting really strange with the family. She starts kind of um being a little erratic, a little unpredictable.

She started like saying things here and there that people were like, wait, why did you just say that? Like what's going on Phoebe? But again, they weren't too too concerned. And so Phoebe turns 23. And her mom had offered her a birthday present on her 21st birthday So two years ago and her mom was like hey for your 21st birthday I will I will fly you out anywhere overseas that you want to go all expenses paid like you can have like this trip to Find yourself, you know to read like an eat prey loves situation like a solo trip It's gonna be safe and I'm gonna know exactly where you are But that's my gift to you

She never ended up taking it and during this time that she's dating and leading up months leading up to her death She constantly calls her mom and is like, hey, about that trip that you offered me like two years ago Like is it still on the table? Like can I can I take you up on the offer? Um, I mean, she's like, what are you talking about? Like when do you you want to go on vacation? Like, you want to go on vacation, Phoebe? And she's like, well, I need to do it soon. And I need to do it quickly. That is so alarming. So alarming.

And so she's asking her mom all of these questions. And the mom just, you know, Natalie, the mom's name, she's like, okay, like, it's gonna be okay. Like, yeah, whenever you want, like, just let me know. Like, we can plan in advance, like, in book the tickets, and it'll all be fun, right? They're kind of keeping an eye out on her, but again, it's not like she didn't ask for weird things randomly, you know? This wasn't like completely out of character that made them so like, oh my god, red bells, like we gotta go red flag.

And then one day she goes to visit her grandma that she's super close with. And she keeps telling her grandma lots of things. She's like, listen, I want to leave and I'm going to get sober. I'm going to start fresh. Like, I'm going to move to this town, like where you live, grandma. Like, I'm going to move out of Melbourne and I'm going to move here with you. And then eventually, I want to go to India and I want to volunteer. Because I feel like if I'm helping other people, then my problems will just kind of disappear

because they're probably not even real problems, you know? And so like I said, she just always had this heart, like she had this big old heart and she just always wanted to help people. And she was just at a time in her life where she was finding herself. And so the grandma sits her down and she like wipes the tears from her face. And she's like, listen Phoebe, you can't just run away. Okay, like you can't just forget everyone and then move to this little town and live with me.

And you can't just do that. You have to do it the right way. You got to go, you got to resign from your position, the right way. You forget everyone and then move to this little town and live with me and you can't just do that. You have to do it the right way. You got to go, you got to resign from your position, the right way, you can't just ditch and you got to break up with Anne and person, you know? That's the right way to do it and you're going to feel so much better about yourself. Then you're going to leave and you're going to tell all of your friends and family that you're starting a new chapter and if you do it this way, if you do it cleanly, you get

closure and you get to focus on the next thing do it cleanly, you get closure and you get to focus on the next thing that you're so excited about. How do you like that? And she's like, that sounds really great, grandma. So she stays with grandma for the next couple of days. And she actually even like reaches out to her friends in the area and one of them was like, yeah, I can get you a job at the golf course that I work out. Like she was setting the shit up.

Like it was all happening, right? And she even went to an AA meeting while she was there, yeah. And so there was a lady who had dropped her off from the AA meeting at her grandma's house. Now, obviously her name is not gonna be, you know, anywhere, because it's an AA meeting. And she said that the whole time, the whole time in the whole meeting,

Phoebe's phone was just like running, just ringing and ringing and ringing. And then in the car, when she was dropping Phoebe off, it was still ringing. And Phoebe was constantly, when she was dropping Phoebe off, it was still ringing. And Phoebe was constantly talking about how she had this rocky relationship with Ant. And in the car, she's like, oh, it's my boyfriend I was telling you about. Like, I really wish she would just leave me alone.

Now, A meetings were pretty long. Like, those pitches aren't like 15 minutes. Like, they're pretty lengthy. So the fact that he just kept calling and calling, like, I feel like that shows how overbearing he is. It's like one thing to call once and then like text, but like the fact that for an hour, he just kept ringing her phone.

Like, imagine I get anxiety when people call me to aggressively for some reason. Like, it's just like, I go into a little dark hole and then I have to literally like throw my phone away. I'm like, I can't look at it ever again, you know? I just, it makes me anxious. So I can only imagine how she's feeling from it. I think there is a whole thing nowadays, because nobody calls anymore. So I think it's a very common society issue, like people panic, why don't you text me? Why don't you? And it's so's so weird because if my mom calls me, I panic, but if she facetimes me, I'm fine.

But I feel like if she's calling me, she's trying to tell me some mean shit, you know? She's trying to yell at me and not look me in the eye. Oh yeah, really? I think so. So I never pick up her calls, ever, just to be safe. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

And so at this point, Phoebe talks to Anne and he convinces her to give him another shot. So she goes up to her grandma and she says, listen grandma, I love you, but I'm going to go back to Anne. I promise I'm going to try to calm down on the drinking, which is kind of interesting because prior to this, she was like, I'm going to get sober. But now she's saying, you know, I'm going to tone it down

a little bit, I'm going to try to get a control of my life, and it's gonna be okay. Now there's a reason that the family was really upset about this. Obviously alcoholism is really, really difficult for families, and it destroys a lot of families. But for Phoebe, in particular, alcohol was the one thing where she would wake up the next morning and be so depressed. Like, it triggered her.

It really triggered her. And she would even tell people like she loves weed, she loves cocaine, she doesn't like alcohol because the next morning it will make her so depressed and so it was kind of making her worse and worse so they just were like we really need you to get off of this alcohol like it's I know it's hard but we need to do this and also she couldn't handle the alcohol like two drinks in and she would be out. So she didn't really have like this high liquor tolerance either. So I was watching a lot of people thrifting thrift haul videos trying on thrift and close

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So she gets back with Anne and she goes back into the apartment, living with him again. And then that's when he's like, let's go out to dinner with a bunch of our friends. So she's like, okay, like life is resuming as normal. She goes to hang out with these friends. And during this time, she was like checking her phone during dinner, like I don't know if she was on the phone,

the whole dinner, which is you know Maybe a slightly different story, but it seemed from all sources and all witnesses It seemed like she was just kind of checking her phone Maybe texting someone back like very briefly. It wasn't like she was just like watching YouTube videos and and get super pissed off in front of everyone In front of every one of Everyone's friends and friends. I think it was a mixture of both at this point, you know So like I think Phoebe was pretty close enough with them that it didn't feel like she,

and also she's so easy to get to know is what everyone said. And so he just left her there. He just like, is that a 40 year old something to do? Like I can't imagine doing that at 25 years old. I'm like, how do you just leave someone at the dinner? Like that's so rude. Like what kind of behavior is this?

What were your friends think? He was upset. Yeah, he just left. He just like left and drove back without her. Just like left her. And so there was a girl by the name of Linda there. And she was kind of close with Phoebe. So she was like, okay, like why don't you come over to my place,

let him cool off. You can go back in the morning and just sleep over, right? So Phoebe goes over to Linda's place. And they stay up the whole night just talking about the same things that she was talking to her grandma about the how about which she wanted really wanted to do in life she wanted to go to India she wanted to volunteer and Phoebe also started telling Linda about her childhood about the fact that she's tried practically every single drug except for heroin that she prefers cocaine and weed over alcohol because alcohol makes her feel super depressed the next day

and Phoebe even tells Linda that she's going to go with her plan. She thought that she was going to give Anne to try, but it's not going to work. It was a lapse in judgment. Like, she's going to go back to her grandma's place and get a job at the golf course. Now, the next morning, Linda wakes up. And Phoebe's drinking alcohol. Like the first thing she's drinking when she wakes up was alcohol. And so Linda was obviously a little bit surprised, a little bit sad because like this is your friend

and you know that they're not doing that to be reckless and to be annoying, like they're doing it because they're probably hurting inside, you know? And so Linda was like, okay, well what do you want from me today? Like do you want me to help you with something? And Phoebe's like, yeah, can you take me back

to the apartment because I wanna pack all of my things and I'm gonna go to my grandma's. So Linda's like, okay, that sounds amazing. And so she stays with Linda again that night. And during this time Phoebe calls her mom and she's just talking about, hi, can I rent your cottage, like where grandma lives? And I'll pay rent because I can find a job at the golf course, like it'll be all good. And then eventually I want to go to India.

She's like saying all these amazing things. And then the next morning Phoebe wakes up again and she's at Linda's house and she's super coherent. There's nothing about her that seems like she's under the influence of any drugs, any alcohol, she's just riding poetry, she's daily journaling in her little journal, she drew some things, she actually drew and wrote poetry as a gift to Linda to say thank you for letting me stay over and this is really important Because she is such a good writer like she writes everything she will even when she's drunk She scribbles things down and this is gonna become a huge argument later on okay, and so she gives all these things to Linda And she's like thank you so much, you know, do you have you seen anything that she wrote? No, no, I haven't. Yeah, and so she gives this to Linda as a gift and she seemed really happy to start this

new life and then and called. And Phoebe says, okay, fine, I will meet you to have one final talk to get closure. After their meeting, she tells Linda that she's canceling her plans and moving back in with Aunt. So it feels like Aunt is really good at convincing her to come back to him, like come back to the, it'll be okay. Like the relationship is gonna get better. You know, all of these crazy things.

Now this is like multiple times. Yeah. She wants to break up. And then he keeps somehow convincing her to get back with him. Maybe things will change. You know, I'm gonna treat you better. I'm not gonna talk to you like you're an idiota. Like I'm sure he was saying all these things But like doesn't really do it so four days later

Phoebe calls her dad and she's like hey dad you need to come pick me up because aunt threw me out Now listen unless you have done something so horrendous I would never throw someone out that they're just waiting outside my apartment building for their dad to pick them up Like what and you're in're in your 40s. That doesn't even make any sense. And so she was literally waiting outside with her little bags for her dad to cancel all of his appointments for the day because he's a therapist.

And he immediately drove to the apartment, and she was just standing there. So she gets into the car and she stays the night at her dad's house with a bunch of her brothers for the next couple of nights and then aunt asked to meet her for dinner. Gosh. I know, I know I'm getting...

Yeah, this is really intense, but like all of this is really important to the story. It sounds like we're on this like cycle, you know, with her, but it gets important. And so he begs her to come back. And so this time, she moves in with him again, so she moves back into Ann's place. And she even meets up with Linda for dinner. And Linda's like, are you really back with him again? Like, what's going on? I'm gonna pull out my hair. Like, you're driving me crazy, Phoebe. What's going on? And Phoebe is just explaining, like, it's fine. Like, we're gonna go to Paris together. And we've decided that this is gonna be like our fix all trip. Like, we're gonna go there.

We're gonna get some fresh air, get out of this town for a little while, and maybe we can find that spark that we originally had since we'll be in such a romantic city. And you know, Paris is a really emotional place for, you know, what I assume to be someone like Phoebe, like someone who's really in tune with their emotions. Paris is kind of in a lot of people's minds like this very romantic full of love and culture, you know This type of place and so she's like this is gonna be like a reset button. It's gonna be amazing, right? Mm-hmm. And so Linda's like okay now Linda did say that during this entire dinner

She did not seem erratic. She didn't seem depressed at all. She seemed really clear-headed Other than the fact that she kept going back with him But it wasn't like she was confused about anything like she seemed all there. Now she had a weekly breakfast thing with her dad every single week. I mean it kind of seems like it was like the dad's idea to keep an eye out on her you know, but also to bond right. They were huge on bonding. The family loved bonding. The family was really close and so every weekly breakfast she would tell her what's going on in life and this time she seemed really happy You know she was really just

This is after Paris? No, not yet. They were planning Paris. Yeah, but this is like after he was like I'm gonna take you to Paris You know, okay, and so she's like telling her dad about Paris She's telling her him all the things that she wants to do in Paris, but she also says hey, you know like this Thursday Why don't me and Anne take you out for dinner? Because it's your birthday. So like a birthday dinner, you know, it's going to be really good. It's going to be really fun.

It's my favorite restaurant. I think it was like a Thai restaurant. She was like, I want to go with you, dad. And so the dad was like, okay, sounds good. I'll see you then. Now, the Paris trip starts getting weird. So during this time, like, they're planning for this Paris trip. And a lot of friends had mentioned that they heard Phoebe say

that she was really excited about Paris and about spending time with Ant and making their relationship work. Like she loves him, but she was also super scared that he was gonna propose, because she did feel suffocated in the relationship, and she felt like she didn't belong in his world. She always felt like she wasn't good enough for him.

Like that's what she would say to all her friends. Like I don't think I'm good enough for aunt. It was just really messing with her self image. I feel like she was in this situation where she knew that she probably couldn't say no to him. Not because he had a gun to her head, but the cycle continues and she keeps going back to him. I feel like she was almost scared that he was going to propose. She was going to say yes and then a month later, it'd be like, what the fork did I do, you know? And so it was just a lot, like she did love him though, just to make that clear, it just

she wasn't ready for marriage. So now we're fast forwarding to like literally the two days before her murder. Oh shh, her death, sorry, legally speaking her death. So she meets up with her old boss from the salon and again the boss says no alarming behavior, she didn't seem depressed. She didn't seem erratic usually people before they allegedly commit suicide. There's some signs that in hindsight,

you can see, maybe you don't see them at the moment, but in hindsight, you're like, oh yeah, she did give me her purse that she wasn't using. And I was like, why didn't we want me to have this? Or she gave me this weird hug and said, I love you so much. Like something happened, right? But the boss was like, no, she was completely fine.

When she gets back to the building, the building manager, his name is Eric and he was the one that noticed something that was a little bit strange. She had been begging for a permanent spot for her bike for a while now. She hated bringing it into the elevator, bringing it back into the apartment unit. Yeah, Phoebe. And so finally, Eric was like, hey, Phoebe, a permanent spot opened up and you can have it. And it seemed like she just didn't even talk to him. She just kind of like walked away.

It didn't even register in her head. I mean, maybe she was distracted by something. He just thought it was odd because she had been asking for this spot for months now. And she just kind of like walked away from the conversation. So he's like, okay, well that's a little bit weird, but like maybe she's having a weird day. So that night, she goes to dinner with the Rockman, which is both of the couple's friends, so Ann and Phoebe's friends. And Phoebe promised before they went out. She said, and I promise, I'm only going to have two glasses of wine. That's it. That's it. It'll be fun. And so she goes to the dinner and she starts

drinking a little more and she starts drinking a little more and she gets more personal with the rock men and she even tells Mrs. Rockman about her depression. Now I mean, I don't know who the rock men are to and if they are a professional relationship, a little unprofessional, you know, but it's not the end of the world. It's really not the end of the world, but Anne got super upset and it was just like this he made it even more awkward. Like it's one thing for Phoebe to say that in Amp you're like, I know honey, like it's gonna be okay, right? With the fact that Ant-gots so upset during the middle of the dinner, they got, they went home

early, they were just like, we gotta go buy an Ant-dragger out of there at around 7.30 pm, and she just like went home and allegedly continued to drink, and he called it rage drinking because she just was mad at him and was drinking in spite of him Now at this night at this point Phoebe calls Linda and asks if she can stay at her place because like fuck aunt, you know like you're in a fight You're like I'm like you like I'm gonna go stay with Linda and Linda's like yeah, absolutely of course You can stay at my place, but I can't stay up with you like all of these other nights that Phoebe had been staying up with Linda, they've been staying up all night talking and doing all these things. And then it's like, I've got a really important meeting tomorrow morning.

Like, I can't. I gotta go to sleep. Now Phoebe, she wanted to stay up and drink. So she's like, okay, like, never mind. I'll go find someone else. And so she hangs up the phone with Linda and she starts calling a couple more friends to see if they're down and hang out with her. And a guy by the name of Bran has seen, she had dated his older brother at one point so I

think they were like friends, you know, they were pretty close, they had known each other for a while. So they met up at 1130 p.m. and he said that she was super happy, super upbeat, her phone kept blowing up and was like non-stop calling her. Now a little side note, Phoebe has two phones. Yeah. So she's got a new side note, Phoebe has two phones. Yeah, so she's got a new iPhone that was registered under aunt's name,

so like in his little family plan, right? But then she also had this older Nokia phone, yeah, to the moon. The only reason she kept that Nokia phone was to have her numbers, because she couldn't pack it up on the iPhone, and she was just like, I just don't have the time for this. So she would literally carry it around as like a phone book almost. It was still working so she could place calls out of there but she just had it around. So she has these two phones

and Anne is blowing up her phone. And so at this point, brands like I gotta go home because they have work tomorrow. Do you do you want to just like call it a night? I can drop you off and Phoebe's like, nah it's fine, like I'll stay out out and he remembers walking away from her and she was like skipping down the like sidewalk Like it didn't seem like she was depressed or anything at all So she goes to her mom's place and her mom I don't know if she was asleep, but Russell is her stepdad and like I said this entire family is so close knit and Russell took Phoebe and sat her down, you know helped her so proud But they also just stayed up till three in the morning talking about life.

Like it just seemed like everyone really cared about her and everyone was trying their best to help her, right? So she goes back to the apartment's the next morning and and was off to work and she decided to skip work that day. She's like whatever I don't want to go. She calls her therapist and keeps asking if she has an appointment that day and the therapist says, listen, I've got it all booked. Like, there's no way I can squeeze you in. I can give you the number to the local hospital. And if you feel something like really intensely or if you feel like you want to hurt yourself, please call this hospital, you know? And she gave the number. Phoebe did call the hospital, but I don't know what they

told her. I just don't think that she ended up liking what they had to offer her. So she calls her therapist back again. And it's like, please, can I get an appointment? And the therapist says, I really don't have any openings. Like I can see you when you have your appointment, but I just genuinely don't, you know? And so she calls Bran. He doesn't pick up. And she tells him that if he doesn't call her back immediately, she would throw her phone away and leave the world.

Now, Bran wasn't too worried about this because she was kind of a dramatic person, like a dramatic creative. Bran is the one that she met last night. Yeah, her friend, yeah. And so she was kind of a bit of a dramatic creative. She would always say these very big things, you know, but she never said it with such seriousness

that people were alarmedmed so he called her back and her phone was off, but he still wasn't too worried for some reason. At this point, I would be worried, but he wasn't worried. I mean, I don't know. He probably knows Phoebe better than I do, right? So he wasn't worried.

And then all of a sudden, this random guy comes into the story. So this guy, we're gonna call him Greg because I don't know his name. Like none of the sources I could find really said his name. So they met in an adult education program like a year ago So Phoebe was studying some I think it was like art history or something It was for adults. They like learn about these courses and she'd met Greg right?

What's calling Greg and they got along really well a lot of them bonded over having substance abuse issues And they were just like oh like that's crazy like we're all working through it now They haven't spoken to each other in about a year, like in a year, right? But then all of a sudden she Facebook messaged him and was like, hey, I really need a meetup for coffee. Like please, can we meet up for coffee? And so he was like, okay, sounds good.

They meet up for coffee. And she kept telling him that she had all of these issues that she's dealing with with her relationship. She didn't want to tell her family about it. She didn't want to burden her family. Not because they didn't care or that they didn't want to hear about it or they didn't want to help, but she just felt really guilty about constantly bringing her problems to her family members, you know. And the conversation, the rest of it was really amazing. They bonded over other things about the struggle of

getting sober. She seemed completely coherent. he was not worried about her at all, she even talked about how she wanted to volunteer in India, she said all of these things, she also talked about the relationship with Anne and she told him that she just felt completely isolated which is why she wants to go to India, she feels like she needs to see the world because in this little, she's in a bubble that Anne is controlling and she just needed more, and she always felt so shitty for working such a quote unquote low job and aunt deserved better. Now, somehow, at the end of this conversation,

she persuaded him to drive her to meet up with her drug dealer. I just don't know how that happened, but I mean, I do know that Phoebe is very charming and just really sweet. And I feel like if I met her, I would want to do everything for her, you know so he was like okay like I don't really like it but fine so he drives her to go meet her drug dealer now this is all from Greg's

perspective there's really no crazy record of any of this and he claims that she had gotten two ecstasy tablets from the drug dealer's house and she was like hey like I still have time to kill what do you want to do so Greg's like well I'm an artist too you know that's how we met. So why don't you come over and look at some of my paintings. Maybe we can paint something. So she goes over to the house and he's like, I think that she popped one of those pills in the car

because when we got into my house, she's trying to make out with me. And it was just a lot. And so I kind of told her, oh, no, no, that's not the phase of my life I'm in right now. I'm really trying to stay sober and not do these things. And he claims that she got very violent, just kind of was very erratic.

And he had to literally restrain her to calm her down is what he claims. So then around 603 PM, and goes home. Now Phoebe's not there because she's with this guy. And so he contacts brand and he's like, you with Phoebe and Bran does not respond to that because he's like you're kind of crazy like you're scary and I don't want to talk to you I'm not even friends with you you know and so then he's like freaking out looking for her and Greg starts driving her home. Now he said this car ride

Phoebe's mood swings were out of this world like she would be screaming one moment and then silently looking out the window the next minute and then happy and Then just like immediately start crying the next moment and he just was so confused at what's going on and randomly She said around 9.30 p.m. As he's driving her back to the apartment building. She said stop the car Now this is a near a place called festival hall Like I don't know if there's some sort of like food court or like an open hall situation, you know, or like a shopping center or something. And so she's like, stop the car.

So she gets out of the car and she doesn't get home till 12.30 in the morning. So from 9.30 to 12.30 AM, we don't have any record of what she did for three hours. We don't know if she went to a bar and met up with some people. We don't know really anything. Like maybe she walked home, got lost. I don't know. she went to a bar and met up with some people. We don't know really anything like maybe she walked home got lost I don't know he dropped her off there. Yeah, she was like I demand we dropped off right here

So then 12 30 in the morning we see that her key fobs were registered at the apartment entering the apartment and Into the apartment unit. This is something that's crazy about this case is that all of the key fobs are recorded I don't think I researched a case that was so intense on the key fob situation because there's a missing key fob thing that happens later. But like the fact that I'm like sitting here thinking, like, wow, living in an apartment, I never really thought about that.

I never thought about that every time I like go onto a different floor, it's like all recorded. It's just such a weird feeling now that I'm like, whoa, it's weird. I mean, it's only getting worse and not worth I mean you can say worse because everything's getting more and you don't track Your phone your key fob you know neural link You said your Tesla is listening to you right now and sending all of these conversations to Elon Musk as we speak

Do people like the data to Elon Musk as we speak. It's gonna be collecting data though. It's gonna be. And so that morning, Ant wakes up at 9 in the morning. Phoebe is still asleep and he leaves for work. Now this is where everything starts falling apart and everyone's got a different story. And claims that day that he took the iPhone, Phoebe's phone, to get it repaired.

Wait, what? Yeah. Wait, we'll say that one more time. He took Phoebe's phone to get it repaired. Wait, what? Yeah. Wait, we'll say that one more time. He took Phoebe's phone to get it repaired. That night? Like that morning. So she gets home at 12.30 in the morning and passes out nine in the morning.

So like about eight and a half hours later and wakes up leaves for work and he takes Phoebe's phone with him to send it to the repair shop, while Phoebe is asleep. Now, I don't know, like I couldn't find anywhere, what was getting repaired, because I've never really taken an iPhone to a repair shop unless it was like a cracked screen maybe, but like very rarely.

You don't take someone's phone. Yeah, you don't take someone's phone, first of all, I genuinely think that he probably either A, took it for release sinister reasons, or B, he took it to try to see like who she was with, what she was doing, because he's really controlling it to try to see who she was with, what she was doing, because he's really controlling, trying to snoop through her shit, right? Exactly.

So I think that's why he took it. The thing about it that makes it really strange is that 10.30 in the morning, a weird text message gets sent from that phone to all of Phoebe's family members, her mom, her dad, her grandma, her boyfriend, and all of her friends, her boss, her stepdad, her brothers, and the text message reads like this. Hi family, I'm in bed about to sleep. It's 10.30 in the morning, by the way. When I wake up, I will transform into the most incredible human you've ever seen.

If not, I will go to the hospital. It's safe for there. I heard the special tonight is tomato soup. Delicious and nutritious. I love you all very much, but not enough to send an individual text. Sorry about that, but enough about that. Time to sleep and I must be on my way. Marry me, marry me, marry me. Life is but a dream. It's like a poet? Kind of. Does that match how she talks? It's no, because her family gets alarmed.

So I do think that she is a very poetic person. So there's kind of like these two different interpretations of it. If I didn't research on Phoebe and kind of her, you know, very creative side, I would think this is a very, very, very alarming text message. I don't vibe with it, right?

But then on the other hand, maybe this is her just being creative with it. But either way, all of her family members got worried like every recipient of that probably maybe minus aunt got worried So Natalie the mom yeah, it has to fall Exactly, that's why it's like really confusing and he'll like later make up I don't want to say lies, but he changes his story a little bit. Okay, and so the mom She's like I didn't see this right away, like I was traveling. So once she gets that text message in her phone, she's immediately calling all of the family members.

She's calling her, you know, her ex-husband, she's calling her new husband, she's calling everybody's calling her parents. She's calling everyone that has gotten this text message. And finally, they reach out to aunt, and aunt picks up the phone while he's at work. And he's like, wait what? Oh no, it's no big deal.

Like I literally just left for work and she seemed completely fine this morning. She was sleeping in a little bit. I think she was coming down from a drug bender. So it's going to be fine. But if you're really that worried, guys, it's kind of funny that you guys do that worried. But I'll go check up on her. Like during my lunch break, I'll just swing by the apartment so close and it'll be fine. You know, I'll just make sure she's okay. So the family at this point, they're way less worried

because it's like, oh, okay, like you're gonna go check up on her and everything's gonna be okay. So I don't know if it's the fact that I stay home all day for the past, I don't know, year, year to half time is all blending together, but sometimes I find myself with these unexplainable emotions. Sometimes I'm agitated, sometimes I get frustrated for no reason, and I feel like it's interviewing with my happiness, and my ability to just really enjoy this time at home, and I feel like it's also preventing me from achieving my goals, and if that's you, better help might be the place for you. So better help assesses your needs and matches you with your own license professional therapist that you can actually start talking to in under 48 hours. It's not a crisis line, it's not self-help, it is professional counseling that's done securely online.

I love the fact that it has a broad range of expertise available which might not be available locally all the time. The service is available for clients worldwide, so if you're traveling abroad or if you're living abroad, maybe you're like, I would love to have a therapist who speaks English because that's my primary language. This is the service for you. You can log into your account anytime and send a message to your counselor. You get timely and thoughtful responses. Plus, if you'd like, you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions so that you never really have to go through that awkward phase of like sitting in a traditional therapy waiting room. Like, oh my gosh, what if someone I know walks in? So better help is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches so they make

it easy and free to change counselors if needed. That was my favorite thing because I believe a lot of counselors are great but if you find that match that works perfectly for you it's just a different experience. Now here's the best part it's actually more affordable than traditional offline counseling and financial aid is available. So better help wants you to start living a happier life today. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Rotten Mangle listeners can get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Rotten. That's better H-E-L-P dot com slash Rotten for the people in the back. help.com slash rotten for the people in the back. So the family gets way less worried about this, and also Phoebe's dad is meeting Phoebe and Aunt Tomorrow at Phoebe's favorite restaurant for his little birthday dinner, so everything

was gonna be okay. If anything was wrong, he could ask her tomorrow night, like, hey, is something going on? If maybe they were fighting, he could pick up on some vibes, you know, try to figure it out. And so at this point, and going forward has two different stories. So the first story that he comes up with is that he went back to the apartment during his lunch break. She was still sleeping off the drug vendor and he told the family that I'm going to make sure that she's going to call you when she wakes back up. Everything's going to be okay. Now the next thing that he starts saying is that, well, yeah, I remember when I went to go visit her during

my lunch break, that she told me she was awake now. So like, the story has changed, you know, she's awake. And she told me that she had taken two sleeping pills that were prescribed to me. So I got this prescription because I wanted to sleep on my flight to Paris. That was coming up soon. And I had gotten still knocks. Now, we're going to talk about still knocks later, but it's not just a regular sleeping pill from what I can tell It's like really intense. It's for people who have intense insomnia Like if you were just going to the doctor being like I couldn't sleep last night They're probably not gonna prescribe you still knocks and so he had had this prescribed and she had taken two of them Now he claims that he got concerned and took the pill bottle with him when he went back to work

So what's even weirder is that everything else is recorded, but there is no record of him visiting in the middle of the day, that day. No key fob record of him entering the building, getting in through the gate, parking his car, you need that key fob to get to the 12th floor, which is where he lives. Yeah, so how did he get in there? Spider-Man? No people think, oh yeah, yeah, exactly. He didn't go.

This is what a lot of people think. Okay. Like, how would you get in, right? Right. It's like one thing, if maybe someone had the gate open and you didn't use your phone to get into the gate, but like, how do you get into the elevator to your apartment unit?

Like, no, it makes sense. So, he has no explanation. He says, I don't know why. I mean, I went. So, it must be the building's fault if they didn't record that one. It's just weird. Everything, every residence, meticulous movements were all

recorded, except for this one incident. It's not even like there was one hour of no activity, of anyone. It was just like, OK. And so then around 2, 17 PM, another log shows that Sally, who is the cleaner, she comes every single Wednesday, I believe. She was there to to clean the apartment she had her own key fob into the building She also had her own apartment key into that specific unit

So she gets there and she was surprised that Phoebe was there. She saw Phoebe alive and well She was really surprised usually. She's not there usually. She's not work or like with friends And so she quietly started cleaning the other end of the apartment and then it was time to clean the main bedroom So she kind of you know gently was like Phoebe Do you mind if I clean the room and Phoebe came out there was no smell of alcohol There was no sense that she was on a drug bender or on drugs She seemed completely coherent and Sally actually really liked Phoebe So she had been cleaning for aunt for a while and she did not like their relationship that much

It seemed more like a parent child relationship. He would always kind of sculpt her and nag her as if you were a kid, not like someone you're dating. I don't know if it's the age difference made him feel like that was appropriate, but Sally just felt like it was all sorts of off. And Phoebe to Sally was always so respectful and kind. Just always such a nice person. So Sally really, really liked her. And so Sally is like, oh, like Phoebe, why are you home today? Like are you sick home?

Like is that why you didn't go to work? Do you want me to bring you something? Like maybe some chicken noodle soup. And she said that Phoebe gave her this vibrant big smile and told her, no, it's totally fine. And Sally had struggled with depression a lot. And so she told the authorities later that she didn't look depressed or sick. And Sally, just speaking from her own experience

of having depression, could never smile like that if I was in a dark place. It wasn't a polite smile. It wasn't like a thank you, but no, thank you. You know, it was like this huge, like very bright big smile. And she's like, no, like I'm It was like this huge, very bright big smile. And she was like, no, I'm totally fine. It wasn't like, thank you so much, Sally. And so Sally finishes cleaning the bedroom. And she remembered seeing Phoebe go back into the bed with an eye mask on and Sally left around 5 p.m.

Now, Aunt comes home around 7.30 p.m. He said that he stayed in the rest of the night just taking care of Phoebe gave her a bath, gave her a massage, cooked her dinner, oh what a sweet old man that he has, and he tried to get her excited and happy by you know talking about their Paris trip and planning all this, and that night Phoebe calls her dad and they talk for about 11 minutes. She tells him that she's still hungover from her drugbender, but Ant is looking after her so she's going to be completely fine, And she also said, and I quote, I really need to stop doing this.

So with this information, plus the text message that she had sent earlier that day, Phoebe's dad was kind of like, okay, like it didn't seem to be a suicidal conversation. Now a lot of the times I will say I feel like maybe victims' families are not the most unbiased opinion obviously because you know they had gone through all this grief, but Phoebe's dad being a therapist, I really trust that this wasn't a conversation where he was alarmed like, oh my gosh, this sounds like she's trying to end it all when she said I really need to stop doing this. It just genuinely seemed like, oh like if I can't get sober, I'll admit myself into a rehab or something, type situation.

Like that was the vibe she was giving off. And so he was like, okay, sounds good. Like we're still on for tomorrow. Good, I'll see you tomorrow. And they hang up. And the next day, he's so excited, you know, Phoebe's dad is like, I'm going to finally see my little girl. Like it's going to be good.

This is the dinner date day, right? So Aunt was going to go to the dinner with Phoebe and her dad. This is very important to the story. Phoebe goes on her computer that morning. She sends some emails and then she starts hanging out at home. Now around noon, there was a building wide evacuation for a fire alarm that was set off. Now thankfully it was a false alarm. There was no fire. There was actually a lot of construction in the building and the smoke from the construction workers' tools had set off a bunch of fire alarms multiple times that day. And so this was a situation where everyone evacuated. Phoebe was seen evacuating with her dog and she seemed completely normal. There was no, she didn't

seem drunk, she didn't seem like she was slurring her speech, she was walking fine, she was coherent, she didn't seem like she was under the influence, she didn't even seem depressed is what all the other neighbors said. She just seemed like what's going on, like why is there a fire alarm going off? Now between this time, after she goes back into the apartment with the rest of the neighbors They go back into the building once they realize it's a false alarm until about 6 p.m Nobody knows what happened but somewhere in this time She ends up falling 12 feet to the bottom of that trash shoot In what feet or 12 stories down to the bottom of that trash shoot and ends up dying from what time five

Anywhere between noon to 6 p.m. Oh And there's a reason that we don't have an approximate time of death So and gets home around 6.05 p.m. And he I don't know why he just like I don't remember if the front door was Unlocked or locked. I just don't remember what when I got in, Phoebe wasn't in the unit. He didn't seem that concerned. He saw that her purse and her keys were on the table. There were several post-it notes just all over the kitchen and all over the bedroom.

She usually does leave these notes everywhere when she's drunk. Like I said, like she likes to meticulously write things down. And he says, and I quote, the notes that she writes when she smashed and they don't make a lot of sense. So I quote, the notes that she writes when she smashed and they don't make a lot of sense. So like none of the notes had any like, I'm going to go get milk and eggs, like nothing, there was no indication that she had gone somewhere. And then he goes into the bedroom and he said, I saw a shrine. He said that he saw pictures

of her and pictures of aunt and pictures of their cat all over the couch with all of these crazy post-it notes all over the place and it just seemed weird Like he kept putting a lot of emphasis on this shrine like this shrine sounds like someone is having either a psychotic break or there They are suicidal or something's happening, right? But there's no evidence that this shrine existed nobody else saw it the police literally went into that unit They never mentioned a shrine so we don't even know if this exists, but he made a note that like, oh my god, the shrine was there, it was crazy. So he also mentioned seeing candles burning. There was a hair straightener on. It seemed like she would be

right back soon. It didn't seem like she was gone forever. There was also bits of like smashed glass in the kitchen. So he claims he thought that she had broken like she was trying to pour herself a drink and she had broken like a cup and a glass cup and had gone downstairs to get a band-aid or something, and thought that she would be right back. Now, 40 minutes later, her dad calls, and he's like, hey, are we still on for tonight? You know, he's trying to ask all these questions, and this is where again, the records get very confusing. So, dad's story is that, and he has the phone records to back this up.

Is that he called Phoebe's phone and aunt answered the phone. Now aunt's story is that I didn't even know that Phoebe's dad called. I just called him from my phone because I just wanted to make sure that Phoebe's okay. If maybe he had heard from Phoebe, if Phoebe is still going to dinner together today. Like he was just like, I didn't know that he even called Phoebe, I just called him. So this is weird. Does that make any sense? Yes it does, but why would he say something so blunt? Because it would be suspicious if you came home, I wasn't home.

My purse and my keys were there. There was like a little droplets of blood here and there. There was a smashed glass in the kitchen and I left an alleged shrine in the bedroom. Would you just sit around at home? You'd probably start calling people and being like, hey, have you seen Stephanie? But the phone record. I know.

I don't know what's wrong with this dude. And so he was just like, yeah, well, I called the dad. I didn't even know that he ever called Phoebe's phone. Now what's even weirder is that there is no record that Aunt had ever called Phoebe's dad ever in the history of ever. So it's not like he called him frequently or often or even sometimes. He literally has never called him before. And so again, I trust the phone records on this one.

So Aunt tells the dad, Phoebe's not here. And Phoebe's dad is like, why it? Like, what do you mean she's not here? And he's like, I don't know, she's gone. Like, she wasn't home when I got home from work and I don't know if or when she'll be back. And he was just really casual about it. He even mentions that her person keys

are on the counter and the apartment. And the dad obviously is not casual about it. He's like, okay, like what do we do? Like what do we do? Phoebe never misses family things. Like yes, I know it seems it's so easy for people to say, well she was an alcoholic, she had substance abuse issues, she was depressed, you know,

but she fucking loved family events. Like I can kind of relate to her. She was depressed, you know? But she fucking loved family events. Like I can kind of relate to her. She was a little bit of like a social butterfly but also kind of like emotional, you know? So she was like loving these events. She would want to go to these. She loved planning them. Why would she miss this dinner?

It's not even just a regular dinner. And she's not known to be a flaky person at all. And so he's telling Aunt, like please can you call the police and report her missing? Like you have to call the police, Aunt. And Aunt says, I don't think I should. She hasn't been gone for 48 hours, so it's not like they can even do anything.

The dad's just like, what? And so he hangs up and Phoebe's dad immediately starts calling everyone that they knew. And nobody has seen Phoebe, and they're all frantic, and they're all super worried, and they're just confused. Now Aunt does something that's so alarming.

At this point, Aunt orders take out from that Thai restaurant that they were all supposed to go to that night for one. Just enough for what? Guilty! Oh, you know, we can't say that! Fucking guilty! Which is weird because like I said, everything looked like she was gonna come my pack the hair straight Nerson Yeah, maybe she was gonna go get a bandaid if that were the case

You should just wait so that you guys can go to dinner together Or if you were really worried or if you think that she's gonna come back or dinner for two like what what what what are you doing? Yeah, what's his explanation with that? She's got no explanation So when the delivery guy comes he was like hey you got to meet me downstairs because like I can't get into your apartment. So he actually goes down to the ground level to meet with the delivery guy. And the delivery guy is like, dude, like it's a shit show. Like there's ambulances and cop cars everywhere. Like I couldn't, I mean, it's crazy. I had to park my bike up the street. Like I hope your dinner's not cold. And Ant tells the delivery

guy, oh my god, my girlfriend is missing. I wonder if it has anything to do with that and Just like takes his fucking typhoon and was like thanks So he goes to where the police are right and all of the I'm gonna get to how she was found But she goes to where the police are and the police tell him that they found a woman in the compact room a woman's body And she's you know deceased and Ant says,, oh my God, my girlfriend's been missing. Is it her? And immediately Anne starts telling this police officer who is literally at a crime scene.

Like I'm sure it's crazy hectic. It's not like he's at a fucking coffee shop, right? And Anne starts telling him, you know, my girlfriend's really depressed. Her name's Phoebe. She's taken all these crazy medications for her depression. Just super depressed.

I, on the other hand, was at work all day, but she's super depressed. Just constantly kept saying that she's super depressed. I on the other hand was at work all day, but she's super depressed. Just constantly kept saying that she's super depressed and it's just like, whoa, dude, like, what are you doing? What's going on, right? Yeah. So the police were like, oh, maybe it is your missing girlfriend. So do you, do you guys have any sort of indicators that I can look for? And he says, well, we have matching tattoos on our wrist. She's got a piercing on her upper lip. She has a tattoo on her stomach and they're like, oh, she has a tattoo on her wrist, she's got a piercing on her upper lip, she has a tattoo on her stomach and they're like, oh, she has a tattoo on her stomach.

Do you mind going upstairs and grabbing me a picture of your missing girlfriend so that we can see if we can ID her? And he's like, yeah, absolutely. My depressed girlfriend, I'll go get her a picture. So he comes back downstairs with that picture and it's a match. And what was his reaction? So the investigators who were there that day, they said that he was crying but not crying. So like he was making the sounds and the body movements

and the sounds that a crying person would make. But there were no tears, no red eyes and no mucus. So a lot of the times I've looked into this, okay? There's something called stress crying, which you're genuinely crying, but stress for some reason, in some people's brains, it doesn't allow them to create tears. Okay. But it does create mucus, it does create all the other shows of like a crazy intense cry, or like their eyes get red. They're just not like, you know, water

falling down. So they were just like, well, we didn't even see any of that like we didn't even see his eyes get red or any mucus like it was just weird So at this point and so This is that's not what we said legally speaking at all and so at this point and calls the family again And this time he's letting them know that Phoebe's dead They're like what do you mean she's dead? What do you what you're talking about? None of this makes sense. She was okay yesterday. You even said she was okay yesterday. What do you we're supposed to have dinner tonight? She you told me everything was normal and she's okay. What's going on? Now when they find out

how she died, they get even more confused. So let's start with that. Around 7pm that night, the apartment front desk concierge, her name is Betty. She went looking for a broom. Now, there's different sources that say that she was trying to go into the trash compact room because they were having some issues with it, or that she was looking for a broom because there had been a mess that was made.

Now, it's in the basement. She hates going into this room. Immediately when you go in there, it smells like trash, you know, it's not really clean. It's not a great place to be, and it's dark, and it's just not cool. So she goes in there, and she tries to open the door. But when she tries, the door is jammed.

She can't get in through the door. Now, there is a small window on the door, so she's like trying to look through. And that's when she sees that this big garbage bin had been tipped over. There was trash everywhere. And she thought that was like a mannequin? That's someone that disposed of, but

then she sees all the blood. All the blood on the back of the door in the room, all over the floor, all over the walls, all over the woman that was laying on her back. And the blood trailed from the body, from the compactor to the door. So it looked like someone had crawled out of the trash chute and tried to escape. Like try to get out. Try to look for help. Oh my God. Now the worst thing about this room is that the light is motion censored. So when she was pushing on the door, it triggered the light to go on so she could see everything clearly. But most likely, I don't know if the light was on when VB was in there. Because it just looked really frantic, you know, so there was blood and trash all over the place now

Immediately she there was CCTV footage of her running through the halls like she is Traumatized. She does she cannot pull it together. So she calls her building manager Eric who had just left This is her boss and she's screaming. She's in coherent She's just saying things like blood trash, like dead body rubbish, help. Like she's just crying. Like there's no way you can even talk to her at this moment. And so he's trying to calm her down and be like, you need to call the police.

I'm gonna be right there. I'm gonna be on the way. It's okay, Betty, like call the police. And so there's CCTV footage of her running around the hall ways like trying to call the police and the police get there. Now the police get there before the ambulances. The police do not enter the trash room.

They don't enter it. They just like stand nearby. They look through the window. They see a woman laying on the ground blood everywhere. They see that she's not moving and they just don't even bother to go in. Now when the paramedics get there, the first paramedic on the scene even said that she rushed to the door. She was rushing to where they said that the body was.

And the police said, oh, stop, stop right there. You're not allowed in because it's a crime scene. What? This literally goes against everything. Like, what are you talking about? Like, you're literally supposed to have me assess the body. And this doesn't make any sense. Yeah, why is that?

What do you mean, right? And what makes it worse is, remember when I said there was no approximate time of death. Yeah. It was because nobody laid their hands on her to see if she had a pulse, to see if she was still warm, or to see if she was cold, nothing. So the police assumed that she's dead? Yeah. The first person to even touch her body arrived at the scene hours later and they were crime scene specialists. Why is that? Who made a call? Who?

The shitty ass police that were there that day? And the paramedics, I mean what are they gonna do? Be like, I don't think so police arrest me. Like they're just, what can they do? And it's so bad because a lot of the paramedics they even talked about how they lost sleep for like months. Because they were like, I should have broken that door. I didn't know where I was.

I didn't know where I was. I should have, that broken down that door. I should have you know Yeah, like what can you do? I mean they did mention that even through just looking through the window They believe that she was dead, but what is that? You know that doesn't mean anything because do you that's the whole reason for Paramedics the whole reason police aren't allowed to call time of death usually It's because they don't have the medical knowledge and maybe there is like a very very faint pulse that you or I or a stupid police officer wouldn't be able to detect. And so yeah, it was hours later. Now the blood trails indicate though that she survived the fall from the 12-story drop through the trash-root. She crawled around the room looking for a way out and died from blood loss. Her

foot was almost completely severed off. So she did suffer from a lot of blood loss. I wonder what the mechanism looked like in there. So what happened to her? She... Okay, okay, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, no, it gets worse because the trash company gets involved. Okay. And they're like, uh, that doesn't make sense. None of that makes sense. Whatever the police are saying, doesn't make sense right now. And so at this point, Eric offers to give the police the CCTV footage. She's like, we've got CCTV footage in the basement hallways.

You know, maybe we can find something. Maybe in the 12th floor hallways, we can find something. And the police were just like, eh, it's fine. And Eric was like, no, no, no. But like, I obviously can't just give it to you. Because I think, you know, probably, Eric would have gotten in trouble by the building owners. So he's like, but if you ask me for it, of course, I can give it to you. And he's like, you need to do it quickly, guys, because we have this thing that's going

on with our CCTVs where it keeps recording over. Like, it won't keep the footage. So if you guys need it, like now is the time. Like, now I can give it to you right now. And the police are just like, it's fine. We don't really need it. What the fuck time like now I can give it to you right now and the police are just like it's fine. We don't really need it What the fuck I know I know this is almost as infuriating like as the Tom la case where the police are just so incompetent where you're just like do you?

Do you want to do your job for you because I feel like I just a regular civilian who has watched two episodes of law and order can Can do the job, you know? Yeah, and so the police. Yeah, and so the police, they want to search and play. So like, hey, can we look through your place and see if anything happened in there? And he was like, yeah, absolutely. Now again, this is where the part comes. There was no mention of any shrine in the bedroom.

Yeah, the police noted that there were posters in the kitchen, but no, shrine in the bedroom. They also found little droplets of blood on the floor, blood on the floor near the garbage chute. They found some blood on the handle into the garbage room on the 12th floor. They found that some glass was shattered in the kitchen. Nobody knew what the glass was coming from. There was actually pieces of glass missing. So even if you took all the glass pieces and constructed it, it wouldn't form like a full object. They don't even know what it is. They can't even definitively tell you if it was like a glass cup that was broken. That's how little they looked into this.

There was a little bit of blood on her computer mouse and her mouse pad, but nobody was like, let's search her computer. They were just like, okay, that's fine. They did take her journal on the bed, briefly, I think, and that was about it. And it was just what the fork What are they thinking at this point? What are they Collecting I don't even know. They are they investigating and no, it doesn't even seem like it because the apartment unit itself Was never taped off neither was the building so people are just going in and out of the entire building through the trash

Shoot through literally, you know level 12 all over, just everywhere, to the point where they're collecting blood evidence from inside the apartment unit and Ant has invited his friends and family over and they're just like in the unit comforting him. Like, you're not supposed to be in there, they're like going around using the restroom, touching things, like I don't know, whipping up some eggs for Ant, like they're just walking around when all the evidence has yet to be collected. the restroom touching things, like I don't know, whipping up some eggs for aunt, like they're just walking around. When all the evidence has yet to be collected, nine hours after she was found by Betty,

she was finally taken to a hospital and declared dead. I can't even tell you how unprofessional I think that is, but just like the disrespect, not even just the unprofessionalism, just the absolute fucking disrespect. How do you just leave her laying there on her back for nine hours? Is it because they're collecting like data? Um, they didn't really collect much. They were just like, oh yeah, looks like she was crawling around all bloody

Like that was like there was no crazy data that they collected like nothing Mm-hmm And so the problem is that the medical examiner is usually called to the scene of the crime and they never called them. They just brought it to the hospital because usually you want the coroner to get there so that they can see the crime scene. They can declare her dead at the crime scene.

But also, these people, they can kind of dictate if something gets investigated because if they say that the cause of death was natural, the police aren't gonna investigate it. But if they say it was homicide, then that's a different story. So that's why it's so important for them to be at the crime scene so that they can kind of get a situation,

you know, they can kind of see, oh, is it natural for her to fall down the shoot like this? Like, is this something that could have accidentally happened? But they weren't called there. So that takes away any sense of the surroundings away from the medical examiner. They also, the police didn't get any statements from ants, um, ants' colleagues, like, they got a brief statement from ant, but they didn't get any from his colleagues, any

from the building managers, any from the building employees until like months after the fact. So you really couldn't even get like an crazy airtight alibi for ant. Hey, you know that thing in your pants? Your credit card, sorry, I don't know where I was going with that. You know your credit card? The one that you're kind of afraid to look up and see what the balance is

to see what you gotta pay that next due date or maybe you got two credit cards and you're like, man, they got different due dates. I'm a little nervous. That used to be me, okay? I feel you, I avoided paying off my credit card debt until it was time that it just came knock it on my door, just smacked me in the face, and I really, really

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SlashRotten. That's Upstart.com. SlashRotten. Don't forget to use our URL to let them know that we sent you. Lone amounts will be determined based on your credit income and certain other information provided in your loan application. Go to upstart.com slash rotten for the people in the back. And so finally, the family had to be taken to the morgue so that they can identify her body, which by the way, that's a really intense process because it's not like a funeral home where they get you prepped for the maybe like an open casket viewing or for the family to see the body, they just kind of like show you with all their injuries, you know? Like they only show

you the face really, but still that's just, it's a really intense process. So the people at the morgue, they tell the family that the police had requested an autopsy be done. And immediately Phoebe's dad was like emotional. He was against the idea. He was like, no, like that means they're going to cut up my little baby girl. Like I don't want them to like cut open her scalp because that's what they do like an autopsy They take out all your insides and like inspect it and shit and then put it back in you know And so he was just like I just don't I don't I don't like this I don't like this and so he was like no no no no that can't happen and the more people are like oh Well, it doesn't really matter because you're not the one making the decision. You're not the senior next-of-kin and the parents are like

What do you mean? We're not the one making the decision, you're not the senior next of kin. And the parents are like, what do you mean we're not the senior next of kin? She is not married, which means we are legally the senior next of kin. And they say, no, because Aunt already registered as the senior next of kin because he's in a de facto relationship with her, which I think in American terms, because this is an Australian case, I feel like it's kind of like a domestic partnership. I think if you live together for a certain number of years Depending on the state you're like in this domestic partnership where you only like there's some legal shit that happens with that, right? And so it had only been 18 months since they had been dating but he filed for senior next-of-kid Where is the audacity in that? And so the more accessible?

Sorry parents. I know you say no, but the senior next-of- if kin to happens kin who happens to be and already gave consent to the autopsy. So, okay. So that means he gets all the decision making and what happens to our body and all of that. So is autopsy good for him? So, later on it will be good for the whole family. So they get on the same page about the autopsy. So aunt just tells them, I just want to figure out what happened to Phoebe

and they all just get on board and they're like, you're right, you're right, we should do an autopsy. Now the person who does the autopsy is Dr. Matthew Lynch and he is actually friends with a judge by the name of Felicity who happens to be Aunt Stepmom. So he begins the autopsy and he noted that the genes where she was rang genes, Phoebe was rang genes that day and she they were extensively

bloodstained. The waistband was just below the knees. So her genes were completely pulled down but her underwear and her bra were still on in the positions that it should be on. The right leg of the gene part had been extensively torn, the belt was not looped through all of the loops of the genes And it just was really really strange So they get into the toxicology levels now the police had already told the medical examiners and kind of everyone involved in the case So they probably thought it was like a freak accident or a suicide situation Which like makes no sense, but like we'll get to that and so the reports show that she had still nox inner system

Like I said is a sleeping drug used to treat people within Zomniya? Now, to be fair, if you Google it, a lot of the side effects say, worsened in Zomniya, nightmares, hallucinations, you know, it's not a regular sleep aid, it's not like a zzqil or whatever, you shouldn't use it for more than four weeks.

And it's kind of like Ambien is what I can get out of it. So Ambien, I know some people love it, but I know for some people it makes them sleepwalk and makes them like eat, like go to the kitchen and like make breakfast while they're on Ambien, but they have no idea that they're doing that and they're kind of asleep. It just like kind of makes weird things happen.

But I just wanna point out that these are normal everyday activities. So most people who are on these sleep aids, who have reports of getting up and sleepwalking and doing things they do things that they do every day. They make breakfast, they clean, they feed their dog, but they don't shove themselves down a trash shoot. She did have a blood alcohol level of 0.16 which is super high. It was about three times the driving limit in Australia, and it's not supposed to be used with the sleep aid. Like, it just makes everything worst.

She also had a drug inner system for muscle cramps. She also had anti-depressants in her system and cough medicine, which cough medicine, when mixed with alcohol, again, can have some crazy side effects. So her injuries, it is very clear that she went feet first. So her foot, her right foot was almost completely severed off. It was literally being held on by like two tendons, like barely on. It was just really, really bad. That was where most of the damage was if she had gone head in first, they said she would have been decapitated.

Like there's just no way, you know, her foot had been severed off. But that also makes no sense. Exactly. They also said that the machine was set on automatic. This will be a huge point of contention in a little bit, like a huge argument. She had bruising on the elbows and sides of her arms. So obviously, the medical examiner,

not being at the crime scene, not having seen this trash shoot, was like, that makes sense. She's falling down 12 stories, bumping into the sides of this trash shoot. Makes sense, you know know everything seemed really consistent she wasn't stabbed or shot like there was no sexual trauma it didn't seem like some crazy event happened before she went down the trash shoot. Now the very weird thing though that I can't get over and nobody can is the fact that our

jeans were pulled down below her knees. Maybe it's Karan's Oh no. Because she's going feet first. If anything, her jeans would ride up. Oh, maybe she felt, you know, she felt to the bottom and she tipped over the whole bit and she's crowding out and they caught on something and pulled it jeans down. But it didn't look like it was pulled like that. It wasn't, it didn't look like it was columns. Maybe the belt was caught on something. They say the belt wasn't looped around all the way.

Could make sense. Yeah, because what other reasons could indicate the genes? Yeah. Do we think of anything else? No. Maybe pre. No, because we'll get to that. She had to go down the chute with her genes on correctly.

Oh, because they're smatching marks? No, because she can't even get in the shoot by herself. Because if her jeans are below her knees, she can step up the height of the, yeah, she can get one leg, but she can't split her legs like that because her pants are below her knees. Yeah, yeah. So she, she went into the shoot. If she went in by herself, but if obviously someone put her in there, then that's a different story. But if she willingly climbed in by herself, they had to have been

on the regular way, which makes it zero. Exactly. Like what's the chances that your belt loop gets caught on something and then you like wiggle out of your gene? It's just weird. No, I just, okay. Anyways, yet none of it makes sense, right? So they never got an estimated time of death, which is very strange for autopsies because they will usually do something called a rectal temperature. They like stick a temperature thing up your butt and they try to figure out your body temp. And that's how they kind of calculate your time of death. And a bunch of other things, I'm sure, I'm no idea, right?

But they didn't do any of this. Getting a rectal temperature is pretty basic from all these coroner reports that I've read in like the past couple years. It's just the time of death is really really basic. I'm not saying it's right all the time, but it's pretty standard to have it or at least some sort of guesstimate. But there was like nothing. So everyone's just like any time between noon and 7 p.m. really. It's like, okay, this is weird. And so at this point, after the autopsy is done and puts in a claim to receive the death benefit payment, like a life insurance.

And it was worth about $113,000. And he had made that claim. Now his dad, the judge, even signed a statutory declaration to support the claim, basically saying he deserves this because he was in a de facto partnership with Phoebe and that they had been dating for so long. Now what's very funny is that the dad, I don't know if he willingly or unwillingly, but there was a lie on his statement

on his statutory declaration because he claimed they were living together and together in a relationship six months before they even met each other. So just made it seem like they were together much longer, lived together much longer than they actually did. Now, when he finally got the payment, there was so much drama and controversy that he eventually just gave it to our brothers and was like, here you go. But I think it's just weird that he even applied for that.

Like, what gave you the right earned the audacity? Just like, who are you? And so the body would be released to Ant because he is the senior next of Ken. Now the family got attorneys involved because VB's family is like, what would it what? Like you guys have known each other for 18 years. We have 18 months. Yeah, 18 months. We've known her for 23 years. Like we've raised her. We love her more than anything. And like Ant, what are you doing? Right? And so Ant finally says, I will give you her body. Like he's just like, I will permit you to have their body, but he still would not give up his status as senior

next of kin. He was just like, I'll give you her body, but that's it. You're welcome. Like that's kind of the attitude he was given off. And then he immediately started posting on Facebook. Oh, yeah, Facebook would get you. Okay. He said, for those of you around the world who don't know the sad news, my partner Phoebe struggled with terrible depression much of her life. She took her life on Thursday to ease her pain, to be at peace. We will have a memorial next week. It had been not officially ruled a suicide yet. Legally speaking, just nothing had been ruled a suicide.

It was an open investigation. Like none of this makes sense. It's one thing that you need to put out a memorial thing out there. So like you could just say she tragically died. She passed away sadly. You know, you don't have to be like, she was so depressed. Oh my god, she took her life. So like come to the memorial.

Like what are you doing? That doesn't even make any sense. And so the parents, they start applying to be the senior next to kin, rightfully so, as they showed. But also they requested that the coroner and anybody else involved in this investigation that they wish that they do not have connections with aunts, parents, who are judges. Very influential judges might I ask. Add, and the coroner had a close relationship with the stepmom, right? These are all very normal things that you would ask for. is my Dias. Add. And the corner had a close relationship with the stepmom, right? These are all very normal things that you would ask for.

And if everything was peachy clean, then Anton is family. They might be like, oh, of course, that makes sense. Like, yeah, you can be a little hurt about it because it shows that maybe they doubted you for a second. But really, it all makes sense. I would be like, absolutely, that makes sense, you know? But Anton got furious. He said, I even allowed the body to be released to the parents and I am displaying integrity

and kindness and you just spat in my face. Why is he mad? Nobody knows. What gave him the audacity? And so the mom and aunt actually met up to just talk about Phoebe's last moments. Like the mom didn't even want to talk about the senior next to Ken. She just she just wanted to know like was she happy like what was going on, you know? I need some closure and she said it was a pretty nice conversation. They left on a good note.

He handed her a box of Phoebe's belongings and he said that he only kept things that were jointly owned like things that they had purchased together. And everything else, these are all of her belongings from Ants Place. Now, inside the box was missing her passport, her Medicare card, her birth certificate, her laptop, her camera, and recent journals that she had wrote in a lot.

So she was like really upset about this. So she contacts him and is like, hey, where's the rest of our stuff? Like why isn't everything in here? Like her wallet's not in here. Her purse isn't in here. What the fuck? Like you don't jointly own that. Like what are you talking about? And so he finally meets up with her again and he gives her her wallet and her laptop back. But inside the wallet was no ID. None of her credit cards. Just like Costco membership cards. Like a gym membership card. Why would he take all of that?

I don't know, in a passport photo of Ant. And that was like it. Like no official identification documents were ever given back to the family, such as the birth certificate, the passport, the ID, like nothing. What? Yeah. And so then Ant decides to get on his little computer and write a long ass email to Phoebe's family

and he sees his own judge parents on the email, disgusting behavior, okay? He says to Phoebe's family that he's deeply hurt that Phoebe's parents are challenging his position as senior next of kin without the courtesy of consulting him. I am working with them. I do not understand this. In this email, he also gives the parents permission to organize funeral and cremation arrangements. He gave them permission. He said, I allow you to arrange her funeral.

An absolute dickwad. He also says, my pain of their conduct is insignificant compared to the pain Phoebe would feel if she knew they had taken this course. So he's pretty much saying your dead daughter would be disappointed in you guys For demanding to be seen your next There's like so many level of Insanity in this whole thing. Yeah, why you CC your parents. Yeah, why you CC your parents whole thing. Why you CC your parents? Yeah, why you CC your parents? Who the fuck? You little bitch, like I don't even know what to call you but a little bitch. Like if you were in your 40s, CCing your fucking parents, you're a little bitch.

Yes, seriously. Get out of here. So mad right now. And aunt even told the parents in the email that he can't trust them anymore. He will be arranging a private memorial and the grandma and all of the brothers are more than welcome to attend, but pretty much made a note, like a petty ass, like backhanded, like the parents are not invited. And everyone's like, okay,

we don't wanna go to your memorial service any way, you crazy person. And so all of Phoebe's close friends had found out about this memorial service. They went to boats, so they went to Phoebe's family's one and they said that one was, it was a lot like they were all hugging and crying and they were sharing these really crazy stories about Phoebe and how much like she meant to them. It was just really emotional, right? And then they went to ants and it was just a lot of them had to run out because they felt sick to their stomach.

These are Phoebe's friends, right, that had gone to show respect to Phoebe, right? They weren't aunt's friends. And they said it's like, it wasn't even about Phoebe. Like the pictures that he showed weren't even the ones that really showed who Phoebe was. Like at the family's memorial, they lose, they use these lively pictures of her. And he showed all these pictures of her just politely smiling at these dinners with him. Just really looked like he was mourning for someone

who he wanted her to be. Like he didn't even feel like Phoebe. It's like, I'm sorry. Is it the same person we're talking about right now? Like what, this feels disgusting. Just felt gross. Like, that's what they said. It just felt really gross, right?

Now, she ends up getting cremated by the family. And Phoebe's dad has, I believe there's some Viking in him. I think, I think like his ancestors were like Vikings or something, I don't know. I think his dad is Norwegian. I'm totally getting that wrong. So they had this very Viking funeral. So they made this crazy Viking boat out of wood. They put letters that all of Phoebe's friends and family wrote to her. They put her

ashes and marigold flowers all over the Viking boat and they pushed it into her favorite lake and they set it on fire. And that's kind of how the Vikings did it. And it's just really creative, it's really free-spirited. It's really Phoebe is what I'm trying to say, like Ante's no idea who Phoebe is, and her family is really respecting her for who she was. Yeah. So after all these emails get sent, the police tell the parents that the case is closed

and they think it was a suicide. Now obviously, the family is confused. They're like, we don't understand. We had all of these events. Phoebe, like there's one thing for police to be like, well, she was depressed. She obviously committed suicide. Phoebe was a social butterfly in family events.

That was the only thing really a lot of people said, keeping her alive. Like she loved her family and the family loved her to the depths of the earth. Like this was a close knit family. And there were so many events. So her grandpa's birthday was coming around. Her dad's birthday.

Her brother was turning 18, and she was actually planning on all the decorations. So she was even like telling her family, like, oh, I think I'm going to go with like this color scheme. Her best friend's birthday was coming up. All of these things. And what made it even stranger is, remember when I said she was a compulsive writer?

She wrote down everything even when she was drunk, you're telling me it's a suicide, but she had no suicide note. That doesn't make sense. Usually people do write suicide notes. It's, you know, it's a thing. But like, especially someone like Phoebe would have, but like, no, you guys didn't even look for one. You didn't even take her computer in forever to evidence to see if maybe it was in the notes or something. But the believer like nah, I mean, the toxicology reports showed that she was depressed, she was self-medicating, she went down the garbage

shoot on her own, or maybe the drugs made her so delusional that it was like some freak accident that happened. And they just like refused to look into it. Now, Phoebe's grandpa, his name is Lauren LOR, R-N-E, I believe. He used to be a detective. Huh. Yeah, I know her dad was a psychiatrist

and her dad or her grandpa is a detective. And he starts investigating this full force. He like holds down the investigation. Not only was he a detective, but he was a well respected detective. So when he came call in, a lot of former detectives and current ones, they open their doors They're not gonna be like who are you like oh god, it's him

They were like this guy is meticulous. He's fair. He has a good head on his shoulders like he's a good detective Right and so they start helping him and he starts investigating the first thing he said is that the physics of this Don't make any sense the fucking trash you think just even that itself doesn't make any sense like one thing about okay mental illness that's another topic like this just doesn't make any sense. The widest it opens is 14 inches by 8 inches which is about the size of a MacBook and so he's like okay for her to get in there while she's drunk the shoot entrance of this particular one was three feet off the ground. It's a metal weighted door and Phoebe's tiny. So she does fit in there technically,

but it would just take a lot. It would take a lot of work and physical dexterity and it would just make it exponentially harder. So they actually get one of Phoebe's close friends by the name of Sarah. They attached her to a safety harness, to her to the 12th floor, and they practiced on the actual shoot.

And they recreated the trash shoot scene and it was insane. It didn't make any sense. Also side note the trash shoot makers who had made that and installed it in that apartment building. They just were confused because the police kept saying it was set on automatic and even in the crime scene photos it's set to automatic at the basement trash which means the blades automatically know, cut anything that comes down. There's a different setting that's manual, but if it was on automatic, like, she would have just been way more injured.

They just don't think it makes any sense. Like they said that she would have been chopped up. Like that's how they say it. Like she would have been chopped up. Like they just do not understand how it was on automatic and she, she had bad injuries. I'm not going to lie, but it wasn't as bad as they thought it would be By the way, were did they get the camera? Oh no, no Yeah, they never got it. Yeah, that would have I know like answer a lot of questions

Exactly nothing also side note, you know the only place it's appropriate to see someone Lugging a huge garbage bag filled with heavy things is to the trash room. So I'm just saying it could be very easy for someone to put Phoebe's body into a trash bag and then open it like after she's maybe knocked unconscious and then throw her down the shoot. Just putting that out there, not saying that that happened, but it could. So they just were confused.

They were even confused that none of the police even talked to them, because it would be kind of a thing to talk to the manufacturers of the trash shoot to see even if it's physically possible that she got in there on her own, but they were just like, what? So the grandpa actually reached out to them and they made him a replica of the trash shoot so that he could experiment in his own backyard, like they made him the whole exact setup, and they tested it again and again and again, right? So they tested it with Sarah and another friend and they would get one feeding.

So they would open that heavy metal door and they would lunge one foot up so they got one leg in. Now this is why we know that her genes were on correctly because to get the other leg in, it would cause you to move, like you'd be almost in a split when only one leg is in. And then you'd have to hoist the other leg in, it would cause you to move, like you'd be almost in a split when only one leg is in. And then you'd have to hoist the other leg in, right? Now here's the problem.

There's no, there's no handle. There's nothing to hold onto while you hoist the other leg in. Your butt is kind of holding back the metal door, so it's not slamming shut because you've got one leg in. But there's nothing to grab onto to get your other leg in. The edge of the trash shoot compartment is about like a three centimeter like thing. Like you can't clip your nails in there and try to hold on to it.

There's just nothing to hold on to. So they're saying that it's like almost impossible for someone to get in. And so the two girls when they did it, they got in, but they were fucking grabbing on all the walls nearby. Like they were like trying to grab onto the walls. Now here's what's crazy. The police did test for fingerprints in the trash shoot room. Uh-huh. There were no fingerprints on the wall.

How would Phoebe get in? So that's impossible for her to get in. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say impossible, but like very unlikely. Right, right, right. There got to be finger. Yeah. And the two girls, I will tell you, I kind't say impossible, but very unlikely. Right, right, right, there got to be finger. Yeah. And the two girls, I will tell you, I kind of was, like I'm on the type where I'm like, okay,

like maybe I can understand why I was a friend or a family member, you might make it more dramatic to show like this doesn't work, right? But like I can't see them being dramatic at all. Like I'm looking at it like they are not trying to like go all over the wall, be like, look at how hard it is. They were genuinely trying their hardest and it was nearly impossible. And so finally,

after like grabbing onto all of the walls, like you can't grab onto anything, right, she gets her other leg in. Now she's literally just sticking horizontally out of it. So her legs are up against the trash shoot wall and her back is against the door. So now she has to slide the rest of her body in. It's not like once both her legs and she's just going zip and down, right? Like she has to like maneuver her body down. But here's what's even crazier.

She cannot get her arms by her side. They wouldn't fit. So both her arms are up in the air, like roller coaster style. Like if you're on a roller coaster, just like, ah, right? Now here's what's crazier. When you start going down the air, like roller coaster style. Like if you're on a roller coaster, you're just like, ah, right? Now here's what's crazier. When you start going down the shoot, you wiggle your body down the shoot.

That door is gonna shut on your finger. You're gonna have, it's not gonna hold you, like you're not gonna be hanging on with your fingers there, right, but you're gonna have broken fingers maybe, at least some bruising. Phoebe's hands had none. Gosh, this is crazy. She had tons of marks on her elbow and her outer arm.

Remember when I said it makes sense maybe she had her arms next to her and she was bumping into the walls of the trash boot while she was going down? But she wasn't, so like none of this is making sense. Like the way that her arms were injured didn't seem consistent with the way that someone would have if Their hands were in the air while they go down the trash shoot and her fingers had no injuries even though that metal Last door would just slam shut on her fingers Okay, so these two sober girls Phoebe's friends they could barely do it

sober now you're saying Phoebe did it while she was intoxicated. Like that doesn't make any sense. Sure, maybe intoxication makes you want to do something like this, like something a little crazier, but like it would be physically incredibly difficult. Like, drunk people, they can kind of have some crazy ideas, but the executions never good. But the, what's his name?

Boyfriend and. But aunt wasn't home and was at work, right? But we don't know her time of death. So she was found around seven. He came home around six. But after she was found nobody touched her for hours, so we don't know time of death. She could have died at 6.30. She could have died, you know.

But the trash shoot people saying the machine is set on automatic? No, well the trash shoots people are saying it probably wasn't like they were just confused. It was set on manual. But I mean all the police in the picture say it was set on automatic, but they just don't get it. They just like she would have. So how does it work if it was set on manual? Manual is usually when people are like going into the bins to like get rid of them.

So if you set it on manual, you have to press it again to have the blade run who said it? I don't know I guess the building managers They usually said it but anyone who has access like any building manager who has access or building like Concierge has access to that room see I didn't even know this trash shoot chops Yeah, things up So let's say somebody did this. They must have known this, right? So they thought this is a way of committing a crime.

Maybe. So they get that replica of that trash shoot and they keep trying and they just cannot make it work to match Phoebe's injuries. Like nothing that they do makes it work. And so then they were like, okay, well how about we try putting someone else in the trash shoot?

And so the Phoebe stepdad grabs one of the girls who pretends to be unconscious, like knocked unconscious. It's kind of limp. And he is able to open up the shoot with one hand and then slide her in easily, shove her down and then close it back up very easily. So much more easily compared to how hard it would be for Phoebe to get in there by herself.

So that was the first point. The jeans were like this huge thing, right? Like that just didn't make any sense. The coroner also think that she probably was alive for at least five to ten minutes when she got down to the bottom, so she decided to take off her pants or like what happened. Like she had them on correctly when she went down the trashy would it just doesn't make any sense. There was also a couple rips and tears in the jeans that didn't line up with any of her injuries. So it looked like maybe

something had scratched her before she got into the shoot almost. Like it just didn't make any sense. Let's talk fingerprints. So Phoebe's fingerprints weren't on the steel handle of the trash shoot or on the wall of the trash shoot where she would have used to hoist herself into the trash shoot. Some predators say that brush steel is hard to get prints off of, but I don't know. It just seems like someone wiped it off. It just doesn't make sense to me that a trash shoot has none of her fingerprints neither does a wall. The wall itself is dry wall. It's not steel or brush steel. So that would have had fingerprints on it and she were getting in there.

Exactly. If she's trying to, she's going to open it, right? Yeah. But they said they couldn't get her fingerprint on the handle. I did see some retiners saying, no, brush still is like a different animal when you try to get fingerprints off of it, but like it still doesn't make any sense. For me, it doesn't make any sense, right?

So the grandpa, he's like, I want answers. So he goes to the police force with a list of demands. He's like, I want her computer records, her phone records, CCTV. What was her time of death? I want all of the key fob information when they enter and exit the buildings and the floors. I want, what was that glass that was broken

inside the apartment? Like, I want to know all of this. How did she get in the shoot? Like, give me all these answers. And the police gave him none of the answers. Please, I'm going to go in there. Yeah, because they had no answers. They just botched the investigation. So they were like, we don't even know the most simplest

Information such as her time of death. So I'm sorry. I don't know what to tell you the computer and Phoebe's phone We're not looked at for months So by the time the family and the police asked for Phoebe's computer back and taken into evidence All of her emails had been deleted and there was nothing to look at So it's unclear if Phoebe deleted all of her emails or if somebody else did, but they were just left in an apartment for months after her death. So I'm just saying, I don't know who deleted it, but it's just not looking good. Ant claims that he took the iPhone to be repaired, but that means that she couldn't have sent

that weird ass message. Right. So people were just kind of confused about that. Later, he'll switch up his story and say, oh, I think it was like the next day after she was murdered that I took it, or not murdered, but like the next day after she died that I took it. So there were a pair of shop, there were pair of shop was questioned, and they have no receipts, no paperwork, they're just like, oh, I don't know when that guy came in.

They also couldn't get any text messages or anything off of her phone so they had nothing from that or the computer. Now another interesting thing is that Phoebe had her favorite pair of Protestant glasses that she wore every single day when she went out, okay. She only wore them when she went out and there was a single lens near her. So it seems like she had them on her when she went down the trash shoot. Now let's say you're trying to commit suicide. First of all, why the trash shoot?

That doesn't make any sense there. I can't find any evidence. I even looked it up. I was like people who have committed a trash shoot like suicides, right? I couldn't find anything. It just doesn't seem normal. And why would she bring her sunglasses?

She's like, I'm not gonna leave a suicide note. Like, I'm not gonna bring anything, but like, I'm gonna bring my favorite pair of sunglasses. I'm not even gonna bring my wallet. Like, I'm just gonna bring these sunglasses. Like, it just didn't make sense. The family was so confused by that. Inside of her purse, inside the apartment, she had her phone charger, which she only put in her purse if it seemed like she was leaving for like a night out or she's not gonna come back for like a day or,

you know, for a while. So it seemed like she wasn't trying to like leave the earth. Like she was just trying to leave the apartment almost. So the blood on the apartment, they were tested. It was the Phoebe's, but any blood on the computer, the computer mouse, they didn't test it to see if it was somebody else's or anything. They didn't try to find out what that broken glass was. They didn't try to find out if it was a cup, like nothing. So the police come up with this shitty ass theory that she had cut her hand while cleaning up the glass and there was no blood on the glass itself,

which makes it even weirder. Then she took it to the trash shoot, and maybe this is like the last straw and the camel's back. She threw it down the trash and was like, you know what, like I'm done. And then just like entered the trash shoot with like super strength, fucking Captain America strength, because she didn't even need to hoist herself up

because determination is all it needed. Like it just doesn't make any sense. And now here's what's even crazier. Okay fine, then go in through the trash and tell me was there glass in the trash, you know? Let's find out where the rest of the glass pieces went. What else was in the trash? They didn't take any of the rubbish from the scene. They just like literally threw it away.

This isn't safe. So they don't know if any of other Phoebe's belongings were thrown in the trash. They don't know if she had thrown something away recently. They don't even know if there was a suicide note in the trash. I don't think there was, because I don't think she committed suicide, but you get it, they just didn't care. They were just throwing it all away. Seven months later, after all of this,

they find that inside of her jean pocket there was a phone number written on a piece of paper. Nobody recognized the phone number, the family could not identify it, they went through their contacts. Nobody knew this phone number. 7 months later, how do you autopsy someone and not realize that she has a piece of paper with a phone number in her jean pocket? That she passed away and not just like a pair of genes like the one that she was wearing the day. They look into it, it was connected to a fake name and a fake address. I think that if they got to that number the day that she was found, they could have tried

calling it, they could have tried tracing it, but they had closed that phone number down and they had registered it with a fake name and a fake address so they got nothing now because it was seven months later. Could it be that drug dealer maybe? Well, it was under a name by the name of Tina, but like it could be, right? Now the apartment also was very easy to access. Like even though you need key fobs,

I mean, a lot of the times people were just kind of seen in and out and it was something that residents did complain about because they're like, this is supposed to be an upscale place and I don't feel safe. I don't know. Okay. So they were like complaining about this. Then all of a sudden a witness came forward and she said that she was in the elevator that day around 4 p.m. and that there was this man who came in to the elevator. He was kind of stalky, had this dark brown hair, stalky as in like kind of stubby, like not as in like stalking people stalky but like maybe and he was carrying an object and

He pressed 12 without a key fob which means that the front desk had buzzed him in which means someone on the 12th floor said Yeah, you can send him up and they tell the police that Eric tells the police that too But the police didn't really care now when they finally do start carrying everyone said oh I live on the 12th floor I never buzzed anyone in that day so nobody knows who this guy is and nobody knows how he was buzzed into the 12 floor. Okay it's just like a really yeah so like no one could even identify him and the police they were made aware of this the day that she passed and so they were just like it's fine it's probably nothing. They didn't even try to identify the guy, try to look into the guy, nothing.

Yeah. Now, here's what's even crazier. And parents were really strange. So the families had met up prior to all of those crazy emails that were being sent about how the senior next-of-kin thing they had decided to meet up so all of them could grieve together. And Phoebe's parents, like I said, but they're memorial. They were kind of expecting the same thing,

which is they all expected all of them would kind of like sit and share stories of Phoebe and like hug and Kind of try to work through the trauma together because they're all working through this grief, right? But when they get to this meeting and Parents the two judges are sitting there just telling telling the parents like yeah, of course it was suicide Poor girl was so depressed now like yeah of course it was suicide. Poor girl was so depressed. Now Phoebe's dad said he was so upset. He didn't want to ruin it for the families, you know, and also they have to kind of work together for the rest of the investigation because he is the senior next of Ken, right? So he didn't want to do

anything bad, but he just wanted to scream who the fuck are you to diagnose someone because they just kept saying like yeah she was so depressed. And it's like you don't even know my daughter, and also you're not even a psychiatrist I like, you don't even know my daughter. And also, you're not even a psychiatrist. I am. So shut the fuck up. Yeah. Like what makes you think you know anything? Yeah.

Even Felicity, the stepmom, she kept saying like, yeah, such a sad thing. But I mean, she just couldn't handle, you know, she was, she just had to go. It was her time. Wow. Like saying some bullshit about how she was suicidal. And everyone was just like, what are you talking about? It just doesn't make any sense. It just seemed like they were trying to convince them the whole time that he be was suicidal Now aunt's close friend came out later to the police later and said uh, hey, yeah, so aunt is acting weird

So whenever I would go over and I would try to comfort him I had been friends with him for years So obviously I wanted to be a place of comfort when he was going through this hard time And he was just kind of like watch TV browse on Facebook and it would be so normal But then anytime a police officer or anyone that knew Phoebe visited he would curl up on the couch in a fetal position and act like he had been there for days Like just act like oh my god I'm like oh my hair is like this because I'm in showered and dazed.

Just acting so different around different people. And so she tells the police that there was a guy by the name of Christopher who works with Ant. And he has no connection with this building from what I can tell. He doesn't live there. He doesn't have friends who live there other than Ant. But he would come visit Beth, the concierge who found the body, who found Phoebe's body,

he would visit her every other day for two weeks, bringing her flowers, saying it must have been such a traumatic thing for you to find Phoebe, but you know it's not your fault, Phoebe couldn't be saved because she didn't want to be saved. She was depressed, like almost as if he was brainwashing the concierge that Phoebe was depressed. And she told the police that too, and she was like, he was weird, like almost as if he was brainwashing the concierge that Phoebe was depressed.

And she told the police that too and she was like he was weird, I don't even know him, why is he bringing me flowers, who are you? And like why are you talking to me about this, like at this mega-dissence? And so it was really weird, so the grandpa he wouldn't give up, he keeps pressing the police, he's like you need to do something, you need to do something. And so finally they're granted an investigation, which is like an inquest, which just means that we're not investigating yet, we're just trying to see if we have enough information to open an investigation. It's not even saying we're getting it to the bottom of it. It's saying, hey, are we going to change our cause of death from

suicide to open or undetermined, right? And so that's how we have a lot of the information today is through this inquest, a lot of these witnesses, a lot of these interviews, right? And it would be an incredibly long painful process for the family. And they got a warrant on Ant's computer. Now, Phoebe's computer showed no activity since like, you know, before she passed.

So it didn't seem like, you know, Ant was using as computer months after she passed, but on Ant's computer He had logged on to a coroner's office form a form for release of a body and he had downloaded it Months before she died. What does that mean? Like he went to the coroner's office website and downloaded a form that you have to fill out to have the body released to you. And he downloaded that form months before she died. Huh. So I think it's just weird that they found this month before she died and he was so quick

to register as senior next to Kent. Like, you would think that if your girlfriend is found dead, you'd be far too emotional to do anything. Yeah. But he was just like, I need to apply to be senior next to him. Why does he want to be that so bad? Because you have control over things that happen. Because they can't do anything to her body without your consent.

Hmm. Okay. To be fair, maybe it was off, but like this wasn't, this was like in 2010. It's not like computers were ancient back then. So there is like the, well maybe the date was wrong. Like maybe the computer acted weird and like set the months. Like maybe he had the date like weird on his computer. Like, you know, you can manually set your time and date.

Like maybe that's not. Like there was a lot of that, but I just don't see that. I'm just like it's 2010. I'm pretty sure it was pretty correct. But who am I, right? So the grandpa also notices that on the pictures of Phoebe's autopsy on her body, there's bruises that aren't listed on the official report

So he's like how this is an autopsy like this is not what do you this isn't your Chipotle order? Like you can't just leave shit out like you have to fill in every little mark every little bruise What are you doing now when they asked the original corner about it? They said oh it was just some blunt force trauma that I couldn't pinpoint So I just didn't put it in. And it's just like, what? Blunt force trauma that you couldn't pinpoint? You could... Blunt force trauma is like the cause of a lot of deaths too, so it's like, are you kidding me?

Like, well, I don't understand. I do not understand. So the police asked him for another report. They said, we need a different report where you kind of identify these bruises or do something about it. Phoebe's family also had to hire an attorney for this entire lengthy process, and they didn't have the money, so they had to raise 16,000 through all of Phoebe's friends and family. And even some of her friends put on like these concerts, and they would donate all of the admissions

to Phoebe's family for the attorney. Wow. And the attorney was really good. They got a lot of doctors to tell the judge, like, even if you were to mix all of these drugs, there has not, this is not a common thing where you just compelled to go into the trash shoe, you know, it just doesn't make sense. And so, and also had an attorney who, whose name is Elizabeth and she was close to aunt's dad, and she claimed there was no reason for an inquest to say that this is anything but suicide

is absurd. The bruising in marks. When they redid it, they said that the bruising on her head looked like it had almost been hit on the head. It didn't, I mean, whether it looked like she had been hit by something or like struck on the head, it didn't really match up with the whole garbage shoot thing. Like you could kind of try to spin it, but it just made more sense that she was hit on the head with something.

There were grip marks on her arms as if someone was like gripping her tightly on her arms, and there was bruising on her left wrist and her neck. The pathologist said, I am not in a position to exclude the possibility of no involvement by other parties. Other pathologists said that the grip marks look like someone was holding her arms very, very tightly trying to shove her into something or trying to shake her or like scaring her or hurting her really. There was also lots of dirty footprints that were seen on the

12th floor hallway from like the trash-shoot area. Nobody took pictures of it, nobody photographed it, nobody took that into consideration. Witnesses came forward and was like, oh yeah, I saw hella dirty footprints everywhere, but I don't know. The assistant council coroner who helps the coroner, told them we should change it to open. We should change it not saying it's homicide, but just open, undetermined. Because of all this information that we were provided through the Inquest, it makes sense like there's no way that this was a natural death or a suicide and the coroner was like nope Which doesn't make sense because there haven't been a lot of cases apparently in Australian history where the assistant council and the coroner

Aren't on the same page. They're usually on the same team. They're working for the same people. It's like the same thing And so he was just like nope absolutely not for the same people, it's like the same thing. And so he was just like, nope, absolutely not. So the coroner said, I am not changing it because even if it wasn't suicide, it was probably an accident, which means she probably went into the trash shoot and then she realized, oh my God, I'm gonna die.

And that doesn't make sense because inside the trash shoot, it's a trash shoot. No one's going in there and cleaning it. 12 floors down the trash shoot. If you're free falling, you're gonna try to grip onto something. You're gonna try to stop yourself. You're going to at least touch a wall, right? And it's incredibly dirty. And

Phoebe's hands were not dirty. So if you're saying it's not suicide and it was an accident that, you know, just tragically happened, she would try to stop herself. No. Then the coroner's defense turned to, well, I talked to Phoebe's therapist and they

said that Phoebe was the most suicidal she had ever been. So it's like, that doesn't mean anything. That doesn't mean anything. Now, here's where it gets worse. The inquest said that it was closed. The judge said that said then, the coroner says that it's not open, so it's suicide or an accident. The family, they had a lot from reach out to them

that said, I can appeal this for you pro bono, but we don't advise you to do it because if you lose, we will have to charge you like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Like, there's no law firm who wouldn't. And so most cases are lost in these situations, so we're just letting you know, I wouldn't do it if I were you.

So they didn't. Now, and he just moved on with his life. He started letting you know I wouldn't do it if I were you. So they didn't. Now Aunt, he just moved on with his life. He started, you know, moving on, hanging out with friends, he got a new girlfriend, he got married, he got divorced, he got a new girlfriend, like all of this. And then June 2018, the case blows wide open again. Because Aunt's girlfriend at the time was found dead. 25-year-old Bailey Snyder was a dancer and a model,

and she lived at home with her parents. Now the day of her death, after work, she went to like this party in a fancy neighborhood. Now the house party belonged to a friend of ants, but ant wasn't in attendance, so like he didn't go. And I'm sure that pissed him off. So she stayed out all night, she gets home around 8.30 in the morning,

her parents are on their way out, headed for the day, and they saw her. The last moment that they saw her, she was crying on the phone with aunt. Like, they were in this crazy fight. She was just crying and crying and crying. And they were obviously worried for her, but they went to work.

Now when they came back home, she was dead. She was slumped over in the kitchen floor with the cord around her neck. The police get there and they immediately rule it a suicide. Now here's where it gets weird. There was nowhere in the kitchen where she could possibly physically hung herself from.

And when you ask the police, hey, where do you think she hung herself from? They're like, we don't really know, but it was suicide. What? Yeah. It seemed more like a strangulation than anything, but they just kept saying that she hung herself, but they couldn't explain how she did it,

or where she could have done that. Like, there was no, there was, like there's nothing. They don't collect any evidence, they don't check her phone, they don't check anything. And so finally, her parents start freaking out. The press now is very suspicious of Anne, okay, in Australia, they're like, what the fork dude? And so finally, Bailey's parents were allowed

to have her death reclassified, and now they're looking into her death. June 2020, they ruled Bailey's death was a suicide with self-inflicted asphyxiation. They're saying, okay, like if she couldn't have hung herself, she'd probably have still just strangled herself. Like, asphyxiation is just strangling pretty much. So they still didn't really give insight on how she could have done that because, you know, know the parents are like where in our kitchen Could she have hung herself and it's very uncommon for someone to strangle themselves to death in a suicide

Just as how it's very uncommon for someone to commit suicide by Putting themselves down a trash shoot. Yeah, isn't like human nature that you you have to like Or to get catch a breath but also like if you live on the 12th floor You could jump out the balcony or a window or go to the rooftop that you have access to like all to get catch a breath. But also, like if you live on the 12th floor, you could jump out the balcony or a window or go to the rooftop that you have access to, like why are the trash shoots? So like none of this makes sense. She had alcohol and cocaine in her system.

So of course that led to the police being like see, it was obviously suicide because she was under the influence. Nobody was named a suspect or a person of interest. Now Phoebe's case is still ruled an accident. And I'm not saying I think it's aunt. And neither does Phoebe's family. Like Phoebe's family is saying I'm not saying it's aunt, but we know that someone else was involved.

There's no way nobody was involved. There's no way that this was her own doing. And I feel that with both of these deaths, just neither of them makes sense That's what we are insane. So he's just gonna get away with it pretty much because they closed both their cases I don't even know what to say. I'm so mad. What do you think? Why the cops do you think the cops are so? I Feel like it's connections. I think because a lot of the cops who are in Australia, they even looked at the case and they're like,

what the fuck? Like that's not how we were trained. Like we went to the same academy. Hello. Like we all go through the same method. His parents are very powerful. Very powerful. I believe his dad was a former Supreme Court judge in Australia. Oh hell no. Yeah, so they are incredibly...

He's retired now, or at the time he was retired, but Supreme Court judges usually have lots of connections, especially with law enforcement and the DA's office and other judges and other situations and coroners. They all work together, you know? That's how they solve cases. You've got the police working with the coroner, you've got them working with the DA, and then the judges and the prosecutors. So it's like a community of people who know each other.

And some of them have crazy amounts of power. Personally, I think someone definitely is involved. And I think if it's not aunt, something's weird because he is doing himself a disservice with all these funky, fresh things that he's doing because if it really isn't him, he's making it look like it's him. You know, so I'm like, if it really ain't you

and you need a better attorney, you need better brains, you need a tutor, you need a PR tutor or something because you look like a fool, you look like a dick face. So that is the story of Phoebe. This one makes me so emotional. I don't think I've ever related so much to a victim, like just her being, just like figuring out her life and this happens and then everyone being like, well, she had some issues.

It's like, who's 23 and doesn't have issues? So, let me know, what are your thoughts on this one? And I hope you guys enjoyed and one last disclaimer for the Supreme Court judges in the back. I'm not saying anyone's guilty, especially not aunt. I'm not saying any, but I'm not saying this is murder. This is completely just my own personal opinion

and legally, nobody's guilty. And I'm not saying they are, bye. just my own personal opinion and legally nobody's guilty and I'm not saying they are. Bye!