Rotten Mango - #6- The Killer Clown - Serial Killer (Case of John Wayne Gacy)

Episode Date: July 16, 2020

Are you afraid of clowns? Most clowns when they take off their makeup and costumes they're just normal people. But today's case is about a clown... when he took off his makeup he was something scarier... a serial killer.  "Do you want to see a magic trick?" - it's about to get really creepy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rambles. Whether you're doing intense to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or paid subscription starting at 1299 per month. Welcome to Rotten Mango episode number five, I believe. Maybe number six, Adam Frickinou. I'm your host Stephanie,

professional as a bit soup and we are here with my fiance. And today's case is going to be highly requested and it's going to be one that just I mean I've been looking at it for past couple days. I've been doing this research for the past week now and every single day that I relook at my notes I just don't understand what's going on. I can't wrap my head around the details of this case. I can't wrap my head around the psychology behind this serial killer. I mean today we are talking about none other than one of America's most prolific serial killers by the name of John Wayne Gacy. Now because every serial killer needs to have a cool name apparently according to the big media,

according to all the news, his nickname was the killer clown. Now I don't know if this is where America's fear, including my own fear of clowns comes from or if this just kind of played a role into it, but he was a fucking creepy clown. So he went by the name of Pogo, the clown, and patches the clown. Is he actually a clown? He dresses up like a clown? Yeah, he dresses up like a clown. He would perform at children's hospitals and charity events and fun razors. He would go to schools and he would literally perform and this actually becomes pivotal in all of the shit that he does because in his murders, he will actually perform magic tricks on his victims. Like actual magic trick? Well, he just like, here, your hair is gone. Oh my God, you're

serial killer. That's really creepy, honey. What is wrong with you? And I call him America's one of the most America's one of the most America's most realific serial killer because he is actually one of the most individual murder charges pinned onto someone, not pinned, but you get it. He was convicted of the most murder charges that an individual in the United States has ever been convicted of. So typically with serial killers, they can have murder victims up to the numbers of some of them in the 80s by estimates.

And they will only get convicted of maybe like five of them because you need to find a body, you need to find a body you need to find direct evidence you need to have all of these things right you can't just have this urocular sitting there and be like oh yeah I killed them all right yeah but it was very interesting in this case because he has 33 individual murder convictions uh-huh and a lot of it had to do with the fact that they found 28 bodies on his property Okay, well he seems Not very smart. Yeah, no It's very interesting some parts of this I'll look at him and be like this dude is smart

And then some parts of it. I'm like this dude is dumb as fuck So this is John Wayne Gacy. Now people call him the killer clown, but I'm just gonna call him little bitch daddy issues on some clown shit because that's essentially what his life is. He just had massive daddy issues. He was a mama's boy with daddy issues and I just, I can't run my hat around it.

So with all serial killer cases, I like to start from the beginning. I feel like with murder cases, maybe even double homicide or stuff like this, I feel like I could just drop you in the middle of the crime. Just get into the nitty-ditty, nitty-ditty, nitty-gritty! And it all starts in Chicago, Illinois. Now, the dad was an auto repair machinist.

He was also a World War veteran, and he definitely was what I would consider like your very stereotypical typical patriarch he believed in being a man's man it is not cool to be a feminine man it is not cool to be a weak man you shouldn't cry as a man like he was just into all of that like he didn't care about every dude should have their own personality. He was like, no, a dude should be a dude. And he would really take that out on John Wayne Gacy later. And I'm just going to call him John for the rest of this video, right? And the mom, she was a stay-at-home mom. Now it's definitely a parent that the mom was taking the back seat.

She was definitely not in control of the house. She was also the more loved parents. So she had three children. They had a daughter by the name of Joanne, and then they had John Wayne Gacy, and then they had another daughter by the name of Karen. Now John Wayne Gacy has always been really close to his sister's and his mom. Now this is what's very interesting about his that's kind of set them apart from other serial killers. This is that from other serial killers, from what I've researched is that

typically their parent or their siblings or their family will either turn a blind eye to the abuse that they're suffering or will, you know, kind of partake in it in some cases and all of that. But no, John had a pretty good relationship with his sisters and his mom. Now, his dad on the other hand, he was difficult. He was an alcoholic, I mean, raging alcoholic. He would come home, go into the basement and drink before dinner, and everyone would sit around the dining table just waiting in fear, just waiting in silence to like, is he gonna come up and yell at us for literally no reason,

you know, what's gonna happen? And he was abusive not only to John, but to his two other kids and to his wife. But John was always his least favorable. John was kind of just like that kid that he did wanted nothing to do with. And a lot of it had to do with the fact that John was not really a man's man. John had a bit of a heart condition growing up when he was younger. And so he was chronically overrate just for the rest of his life as a problem that he had to struggle with. He was not allowed to partake in sports. He also didn't really enjoy doing these sporty things. He didn't enjoy going to like watch baseball with his daddy.

He actually really liked cooking and gardening and he would do that with his sisters and his mom. And instead of embracing that, his dad would just beat him up for it. What? It was to the point where he would have friends over and in front of all of his friends, that's a young age, his dad would be like, your dumb and stupid. Your sisters are manlier than you. Your sisters are more capable than you in front of all of his friends.

And so the earliest memory that John Wayne Gacy claims that he had is that when he was around four years old, he saw a bunch of tools laying around on a table and he was like, you know, this looks fun. I'm gonna play with these. So he starts playing with them and he rearranged them a little, but he didn't drop him, he didn't break them, nothing. He just kind of rearranged the placement on the table. And his dad came in and beat him with a leather belt. Like what kind of tool, just like little screwdriers and stuff? Yeah, nothing too serious. So the dad really dis this kid for whatever.

Yeah. And even one of the sisters was interviewed, Karen, the younger sister, and she's up at, it only seemed like dad wanted to beat him. Like, there was nothing he could say or do that was right in dad's eyes. And so sometimes he would even hit him on the head with a stake. And one time he was unconscious from that. So he's like the scapegoat. Yeah, and at six years old, he ended up stealing this toy truck from his neighborhood store.

And he tells his mom about this toy truck and the mom is like, okay, you're going to bring it back to the store and tell them that you're so fucking sorry. And so he says, okay, I'm going to do that. And then for some reason, the mom ends up telling the dad. And the dad beats him with a belt. And at this point, the mom just felt like the punishment was too much. This is too much, okay?

So she steps in front of him, and it's like, don't beat my little baby. Yeah. And the dad's like, see, this is what I'm talking about. You're such a little mama's bitch. Like you're a sissy. Like you're probably gonna grow up to be queer. Those are his words, not my.

Like feminine, is that what it means? I mean, I think he was intending in more of like, he's gonna grow up to be gay. Which does kinda play a role in John's life. Is John gay or? He claims that he's bisexual. Okay. But it does seem that he was more gay than bisexual, but I don't know So it's it gets very interesting because he says something to his wife that makes a lot of people feel like he was not bisexual

Like no one's gonna be like oh no like I'm definitely not saying hey, you don't know your sexuality I know it better. That's not what I'm saying But there is something in this story that makes you think that's a little weird. Okay now early on in his life He's not even 10 years old yet and his dad gets a phone call and he picks up the phone and he's like, what's going on? And they're like, okay, listen. I know this is gonna be really hardy here,

but we saw your son, John Wayne Gacy, and another boy sexually fondling a young little girl. I mean, they were also young at the time. They were under 10 years old. And so this was kind of alarming. This is like the first thing that I read that I was like, oh, this is where the childhood starts to get increasingly alarming because, you know,

I've read a lot of childhood analysis of serial killers. I'm definitely not an expert, but I am definitely fascinated. And it's something that I love to read about. And what's interesting is that his abuse compared to all of the others doesn't seem as intense So this is like kind of like the first part where I'm like, oh shit some shit's going down right now because even with the leather belts Even with all of these things. It's not something that seems so Incommon with a lot of other serial killers children's, you know, yeah childhoods

And so I'm like, okay, this is really weird. And so the dad obviously beats him up some more. And then one day, John Wayne Gacy gets molested by a family friend. A male, older male, who definitely is a pedophile because I believe he was in his early teens at the time. And he would take John into his truck and then he would start fondling him. And because of how his life had been set up and because of the relationship that he already had with his dad thus far, he felt like if he told his dad anything, his dad just would not believe him or they would say, you know, it's your fault. Why did you get in the truck? Why did you even say you'd do this? Why did you A, B, C, and D? He just did not trust his dad. And this was his dad's friend.

So obviously, John did not feel comfortable with telling either of his parents. And I think this is where a lot of the problems started stemming. I don't know if this was repeated abuse by this one man, but it definitely seems to play a very big role in his life. And in high school, he started having even more issues. So in high school, he had a more issues. So in high school he had a lot of hospital trips. Now this kind of reminds me of the unibomber, right? Not entirely so but very very similar. So he has this heart condition. He's

told to avoid all sports at school. He starts getting very very heavier. He starts getting overweight clinically, right? And his dad's not like it. Again, he just wanted some like dudes dude. Like he wanted like an army man. He wanted a veteran. He wanted someone who looked like a man. And John did not in his eyes. And he started having these seizures,

and then he would start blacking out, and then he had a burst appendix. And between the age of 14 and 18 years old, collectively, he had spent almost a year in the hospital. So his grade starts slipping, so his dad's like, you're not even a dude, you can't even play sports, you can't even do this. I mean, his dad was super toxic and abusive.

This is disgusting. I feel like I don't want to sympathize too much with him because people get mad at me, but think about it right now. This zero killer is not a zero killer yet. He's just 14. Like, yes, we can be mad at the dad. The dad is the issue right now in this zero killer is not a zero killer yet. He's just 14. Like, yes, we can be mad at the dad. The dad is the issue right now in terms of this story. And so

he spends a year in the hospital. His grades are declining. His dad is like, you can't even fucking play sports. And now you're getting seas like you're literally useless. You're a waste of space. I am so disappointed to have a son like you. You're not even a son. Like he would just say some of the craziest shit. And he would be laying in the hospital bed and the doctors knew that this boy, this 14 year old boy, had just suffered a seizure. And his dad would look at the hospital staff, look at him and the eye and go, I know you're just faking this for sympathy and attention and you need to stop. Wow. And everyone's like, what are you talking about?

Like, what are you talking about? He was never formally diagnosed with anything though. And I think that's what kind of triggered his dad even more. So everybody else that knew John, his friends, his family friends, his, you know, his other mom, well, his mom, his other parent I meant, his sisters, the hospital staff, they knew that

something was wrong with John, but it was never formally diagnosed because they couldn't pinpoint it. So he's just keep getting sick, but nobody knows why? Yeah, and because there was no formal diagnosis, his dad was like, you're faking it. Why couldn't they find out what's wrong with him? I don't know. Yeah. And it kind of stops later on, which is interesting.

So when he's around 13 years old, Karen, his younger sister, goes into his room. And she knew that she was in the loud into his room, but the younger sister was obsessed with John. She just felt like John was like this big older brother that she loves so much and just kind of wanted to snoop around. I mean, she's young too. She's like, why can't I come into your room? And so she ends up going into his room.

And inside of his closet, he had this brown paper bag. And inside of it, we're silk panties. Now, she's kind of confused by this. So she immediately tells her parents, because this feels off. This feels wrong. I mean, John's 13 at the time. This is very, very weird.

This is not something that's normal. And John kept denying it and he was like, I don't know, I didn't do it, I didn't do it. I don't know how it got there. That's not my problem, that's not my problem. And Karen went to her mom one day and she was like, Mom, like, what's going on? Like, why is he in trouble?

Why, whatever's at his room? And I think his mom couldn't lie to the daughter because she's the one that found it. You know, it's one thing, it like, oh honey, don't worry. It's something about school that they're fighting about, but it's like she knew why they were yelling at him. Yeah. And the mom said, John has a little bit of a fetish.

You know, the one day when he was younger, I found a brown paper bag too, sweetie, and it had my panties in there Yeah, it's just Something is a little wrong, but we're gonna figure it out She's like okay, well, let's figure it out now John will later tell a best friend by the name of Barry and He would always say things to Barry like, do you ever wonder what I would look like

if I dressed up as a woman? So it's not 1,000% confirmed, but it seems like John at this point already around 13 years old is having a lot of just confusing questions about his own sexuality. So he's actually wearing those. Oh wearing those. So he just doesn't really know, right? He doesn't know if this is a feeling that he has, if he wants to identify as a woman or if he just likes men, if he likes women, he's just having a lot

of questions about his sexuality. And so this progresses for the next couple of years and at 17 years old, some real crazy shit starts happening. At 17 years old, he ends up getting a car. Now his dad said that he would support his car. He would do like the down payment and everything, but he would have to pay for the car on a monthly basis. And he had like this side hustle. He was going to a job after school. And one day he got fired from his job and ended up being like this huge fight with his dad because his dad's like, how are you gonna pay the monthly payments now, but I'm taking away the car.

He would take away the car keys. He even replaced one of the car parts so that he couldn't drive it. And John said that this was one of the most devastating things for him because when you're 17, I mean, this is fucking devastating. And so when his dad immediately replaced that car part and the car was good to run again, he ends up stealing the key and driving from Chicago, Illinois all the way to Las Vegas,

Nevada. And his parents end up getting a private investigator because he was in contact with them and they find out that he drove all the way to Las Vegas, Nevada, and they found this out because he was actually working somewhere. He was working at a mortuary with dead bodies. Whoa. Now he was a mortuary attendant

and because he didn't have a place to stay in Las Vegas, Nevada, he ended up sleeping in a cot in the embalming room. Now the embalming room is a very scary room. If you guys don't know what embalming is, is when when you have like an open casket funeral, they have to do a lot of processes to your body to make sure that when you're being publicly shown to your loved ones who are already grieving you, that you don't just like your eyes, eyelids don't pop open, your hand doesn't move, you're

not like leaking anything, any fluids, any gases because that's very normal of the decomposition process. And so they embalm you, which is a chemical process, to kind of slow all of that down so that you can have the funeral that you want. And he would sleep in there. So I'm sure that that is also very, very traumatizing. He's sleeping in the room with a bunch of dead people.

Yeah. That's crazy. And he would watch bodies get cremated on a daily basis. And now he did one thing that was really creepy. One night, he just felt really lonely. Oh no. And he's looking around. And like I said, John has always been someone that was really questioning and confused about

his sexuality. And a lot of it, I think, personally, has to do with his dad. I think if they lived in an environment where they were embraceful and they said, Hey, you know, it's okay if you're questioning your sexuality, let's figure it out, you know, it'd be a different story. Maybe we wouldn't be talking about a serial killer today. But he was lonely and he's looking around and he's alone and he sees this coffin of a deceased, teenaged male. Now teenage, keep that in mind. This is going to be pertinent to the story.

Even though John is a teenager at this point, just keep in mind most of his victims were young teenagers or young male adults. So I'm talking like 16, 15 to 19 where most of his victims ages. And so he opens up the coffin and he goes inside. And he lays with the deceased body. And he embraces the body. And then he starts caressing the body. And then he went into complete shock. He didn't realize what he just did. He started freaking out. He didn't realize, I think it just kind of settled into him that you just caressed a dead body. And so immediately that night he quits the morgue and he calls his parents and he begs if he can go back home to Chicago. And instead of finally agrees, okay fine, you can come back and live with us. So he makes the trip back from Las Vegas, Nevada all the way to Chicago, Illinois.

And when he gets back to Chicago, now there was a point in time where everyone thought, okay, things are gonna turn around for John. Things are gonna get so much better at this point. He went to Northwestern Business School. He graduated, he becomes a shoe store manager, and he starts doing really well at this shoe store. I mean, he met a coworker by the name of Marlon Myers,

right? And they start dating. And even while they're dating, he starts joining all of these groups. And he was really big on community. He was part of the Democratic Party, meaning he would go to like these. Later on, he's going to do a lot more work.

He even in some meeting like the first lady at the time, it gets really wild. And so he ends up joining the JCs, which stands for the United States Junior Chamber. And it's for people that are 18 to 40 years old, and it's a leadership training organization. So pretty much you go there, imagine like a boy scout, but for the real world and for a lot older now. Yeah, okay. That's kind of the vibe. So like these older men will join and they'll teach these younger men like how to start your own business, etc, etc.

You know, that Tony Robbins shit. And he was focusing on business development, management skills, community service, and he started joining this local JC committee while he was dating Marilyn. Now he loved it. He fucking worked tirelessly. Now, what's interesting about John Wayne Gacy from other serial killers is that the one positive thing I can say about him is He had an insane work ethic. I mean he worked non-stop all day every day to the point where you're like

How does he have so many hours in the day to do this but also have his like just a secret life of being a serial killer like it doesn't make sense And so he's working tirelessly. He's fun raising for the JCs. He's recruiting for the JCs. And he has his, I don't want to say it's his first, but one of his more after adulthood first experiment experiences with a male sexually. So there's a colleague at the JCs and he invited him over and they ended up starting drinking on the couch. the J.C.'s and he invited him over and they ended up started drinking on the couch and he ended up performing oral sex on John Wayne Gacy. This is all the while that he is dating Marlon.

And within six months, he ends up proposing and marrying Marlon. Now, Marlon's family was a little bit well off and Marlon's dad was like, listen, I don't want you guys to be married and working in some shoe store. Like that is not a future. That's not something that you guys should be doing. So he said, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to buy three KFCs in Iowa, three KFC franchises and Waterloo, Iowa. And I want you guys to move to Iowa. Okay. And I'm going to pay you guys every single year to manage all three franchises.

You don't have to be there every day, but you just have to manage each store and make sure their manager's doing their job, make sure all the employees are doing their job. So just the base salary that this couple was gonna get after getting a free house to in Iowa was $115,000 a year. That's calculated with inflation.

And they also said that you're gonna get a share of the profits earned by the restaurants that you manage. So, whatever that percentage is, I mean, he was killing it. He was making a shit ton of money. He went from being a high school dropout to going to business school to a shoe store manager, and now he's making so much money. And so he moves with Marlin to Iowa from Chicago, and he starts doing some weird shit, okay? He starts turning his basement into a club. He called it a club. I don't know how clubby a basement can get, but he called it a club, okay? And he would invite his employees

over to drink and to play pool and some other stuff and some other stuff now his employees when you think about restaurants like KFC I mean you're talking about a lot of like a high schoolers you're talking about people who are like hey Maybe I'm in school right now and maybe I want a job I like hey, it's my summer off from college. You would invite all of these young people over and he would underage Drink like provide drinks for these underage kids and they would play pool together. And John employed both sexes. So he was not discriminating in the workplace per se, but he was sexually harassing and assaulting in the workplace. So that's so much worse.

And he would really just interact with the teen boys. That was his employees. So he already took advantage of those boys at that point. So at this point, he'll start out coming being like, oh, come over to my basement. Like, what's going to be a club? And they'd come and they're like, oh my god, you're like, the coolest boss over. I can't believe you're learning me drink. Like, you're so fucking cool, John. And then he would try to make these sexual advances on these young boys. Oh, I see. Like 20s? Yeah, like 20-30s, yeah.

And if they said no, he would say, take a joke, I'm married. Like, you're so dumb. And sometimes he would say, good, like you really don't like stuff like this, huh? Yeah, me too. I don't like homosexuals. Like, he would be like, I was testing your morals. Because some of the boys in Waterloo, Iowa would be like, that's nasty.

Like that's, you know, and then say a derogatory phase. And then he'd be like, yeah, I was just testing your morals. Because that's bad, right? And so again, he's just kind of weirdly suppressing his own sexuality, right? And he ends up having a son and a daughter with Marlin. And this is- Marlin has no idea. Yeah, it doesn't seem like she has any idea at all. And John says that this part of his life was almost like a perfect life. You know, Marlin was happy. The kids are happy. Gary, or Gacy, I was gonna say Gary Gacy, sorry. John, John's dad even visited from Chicago to Iowa.

And during that visit, he ended up apologizing for everything. John's dad? John's dad sat John down and said, you know, I was hard on you. I really was. I'm sorry for beating you, and I'm sorry for all of that.

And you know what, John, I was wrong about you. I didn't think that you'd be successful, but look at you now. I didn't think that you get married to a successful woman with and have these beautiful kids, but look at you now. Interesting. And so he finally got his dad's approval. And what did John think about that? Did he talk about it? He was so happy. And in Iowa, he was also continuing his work as a JC.

Right? He's a JC member again. And while he's working these 12 to 14 hour shifts, between the three restaurants, between all of the bookkeeping, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, he was highly regarded for his fundraising work at the local J.C. Center, right? Yeah. And some said, you know what, he brags a little bit, but you know, he does a lot of good work for our community. So we really like him.

And he would even go to meetings and he would supply a bunch of fried chicken. And something that I thought was very weird is that he would supply all of this fried chicken. And then he would tell everyone to call him Colonel. Like Colonel Sanders, like the KSC man. I mean I just thought it was weird and then like people would be interviewed and they'd be like, oh, like, that's funny. Anyways, John and you'd be like, no, I insist call me Colonel and they'd be like, what? That's fucking weird. Like, I don't know how I would react if someone was like, no, just call me Princess. And I'm like, what? Stacy,

what's going, I insist, call me Princess. I'm like, okay, that's, I don't know how I would react. Jaycee, the business community where they're growing all of these young men into being successful entrepreneurs, they had a little bit of a very special interest while they were very, very invested in building leadership skills and building business communication skills, they were also really interested in swinging. They loved wife swapping. They loved prostitution.

They loved pornography. And they loved drugs. What? Yeah. So a lot of that community in Iowa was heavily invested in all of these things. So they'd be like, business man by day, fucking swingers party by night. And it was just kind of wild.

Yeah, it sounds exactly like everything that happens in our way, from what we've heard. Not personally. And John was also really involved. And he especially loved the prostitution aspect of it because he had a beautiful wife at home, but John was really interested in men So he would get a lot of male prostitutes and that was just kind of his thing and one time This is what all the crime really starts to take up I don't know if there was a lot of crime part to this

I have a feeling there probably was but this is when we have our first identifiable victim by the name of Donald Voorhees now Donald Voorhees at the time I'm just gonna call him Donald was 15 years old and he was the name of Donald Voorhees. Now, Donald Voorhees at the time, I'm just going to call him Donald, was 15 years old, and he was the son of a fellow JC member. And he had the lure Donald into his home, John did. And John said, you know, Donald, you're 15, but I'm a feeling you're a man. So, if you come out of my house, I can definitely let you borrow some porn. I know that your dad doesn't let you keep it around the house, but I've got some crazy DVDs.

Like, you've never seen shit like this before. So why don't you just come over and now Donald being a regular 15 year old boy who is also very, you know, exploring their sexuality and like going into puberty. I was like, I'd love to see some porn! And so he gets into the car, he leers him home, they go into the basement, and John starts giving Donald a bunch of alcohol, and so Donald gets drunk and he's underage drinking, and John ends up persuading Donald to perform oral sex on John. So this married man with a son, with a daughter, is having oral sex with an underage boy.

And he started to continue to do this in very similar manners with a lot of other victims. So he would say, hey, listen, you want to see some real speed, you want to see some real nasty, come over to my house and I'll show you some porn. And all of these kids would be like, wow, you're like so loved in the community, you're like that cool uncle, like you're so cool, John, and they'd go over and then they would get assaulted by this raging pedophile. And one of the very weird instances was that he actually encouraged one of these miners to have sex with his wife, his own wife, and his wife ended up having sex with one of these miners.

I don't really know for sure if she knew what was going on, if she knew that he was a minor, if she knew that John had put him up to this, I don't really know for certain, right? But he takes this information and he ends up blackmailing that teenager and to now having oil sex with John because he's like, listen, I mean, you just had sex with my wife, I could totally tell your parents, I know your parents, I could totally tell the whole world, I could totally just like make this a big scene. I mean, yes, I encouraged you to have sex with my wife, but now you gotta pay me. And so then he ended up getting oil sex from this black mailed

young boy. And he kept doing this over and over again. I don't know if how many times his wife was part of this big master plan. I mean, I don't think that his wife was guilty of anything. I have a feeling she probably didn't know. I mean, otherwise I feel like they would have pressed charges on her, but I'm not entirely sure. And so he would say, you know,

I just want to show you simple, and when that wouldn't work, he's like, okay, I'm going to do something. Do you guys know the saying for research purposes? Yeah. Like everyone says it as a joke, like, hey, how much she loved me for research purposes? I mean, that's a very bland one, but you get it. And so he would tell these youths, these young boys, you'd go up to them and you'd say, hey, I'm doing something for research. And I need you to come over and it's just for research purposes. It's like a scientific study. Anyways, I'm going to pay you $50 because it's for research and I'm getting paid.

And so they'd be like, oh yeah, $50 with the heck, I'm literally 15. Like $50 was a bajillion dollars in my head. I mean, $50 even to this day is a lot of dollars, right? And he's like, okay, come over. So they'd come over and he'd say, okay. Literally 15, like $50 is a bajillion dollars in my head. I mean $50 even to this day is a lot of dollars, right? And he's like, okay, come over. So they'd come over and he'd say, okay, so the research is that you are gonna perform oral sex on me and I'm gonna see if I like it

because I'm not entirely sure. And it's for scientific purposes. For the interest of science, we are conducting homosexual experiments is what he would say. And a lot of kids would do it and they would get that fifty dollars and they would not realize until much later that what they just experienced was not research was not in the name of science was actually pedophilia and molestation then he gets arrested for the first time so he keeps

doing this Donald was his first identifiable victim and then he had multiple others. He would convince all these other kids to come along, etc, etc. And Donald ended up finally just caving in and he told his dad he was like, dad, listen, something crazy happened. You know that guy that from JC that you guys are like kind of friends with? Well, anyways, this is exactly what happened. And right when he told his dad, his dad was fucking enraged as he should be. And so he immediately goes to the police and he's like this one I need you guys to press charges immediately like I want this fucker and jail he's killing like he's gonna kill people like he's creepy yeah and another victim comes for it and he's like oh you know the same thing happened to me

I was also underage and he tried to convince me I didn't end up doing it but he tried to convince me, I didn't end up doing it, but he tried really hard to convince me. And so he was charged with oral sotamy. How bad is that? It's pretty bad. I mean, this is really bad. So what did he get? He, well, this is where it gets even, yeah, worse. And then he attempted to assault a 16 year old by the name of Edward Lynch, who was the one that came forward.

And so he's just denying everything. He's like, listen, you guys have the wrong guy What are you talking about? I'm John Wayne Gacy. You know the KFC right there. I don't know shit You really like KFC right there? I don't like shit. Like what are you talking about? I am a business owner I'm involved in these community building activities like you're crazy I have a wife and kids and he's just denying it and so he's like, you know what, fuck this shit. Police officers give me a polygraph test. And so they're like, okay, they give him a polygraph test.

And when they asked him if he assaulted Donald and Edward, it showed signs that he was nervous, even though he said no. But he did not perform well in that polygraph test. He did not perform well. Yeah. So that's good for the police. Yeah.

And so he's like, no, well, that's a stupid test anyways. I didn't assault them. And so then he starts going around telling all of his friends, listen, I am publicly denying this. This did not happen. And I honestly think it's fucked up. No, it was like, what do you mean? Why is it fucked up? And he's like, what do you mean why is it fucked up? And he's like, well, you don't get it, do you?

Donald's dad, do you guys remember? When I was nominated to be an Iowa J.C. president, he opposed my nomination really, really vocally. He didn't want me to be the president. And now what? Now he's like, oh, I really don't want him to be the president. So how do I fuck him up? I'm going to send him to jail.

So he's like, this was completely all political. He wants to be the president of the J.C.'s in Iowa. And I was just, I had the most chance. And so a lot of people of the J.C. community, they rallied behind him. And they were like, we support you. Yes, Colonel, like they just supported him. And they were like, okay, this is not, yeah, that sounds crazy. Like he absolutely was trying to blackmail you.

And yet again, that's just not how the way that the law works. So even though all of these people believed him, the law did not believe him. And so he was indicted for a sawdamey charge. Now, it gets even crazier. So he ends up getting a chick, now it's gonna say chick filet, I'm so sorry. Okay, I have the employee. That works for him. He was an 18 year old by the name of Russell and he says, well, son, Russell, I'm gonna pay you a little over $2,000 and what you're gonna do is you're gonna go find that little Donald boy

and you're going to discourage him from testifying. And he's like, well, how do I, how do I do that? Like should I just sit him down and have like long conversation testifying. And he's like, well, how do I, how do I do that? Like should I just sit him down and have like a long conversation with him? And he's like, no, I'm going to give you this pepper spray. You're going to go up to him, bring him to a secluded area, pepper spray the shit out of him and then beat him up and say, if you testify, you did. And so he's like, okay, I'll do it. And he ended up doing it. And he ended up doing it. And Donald ended up getting sprayed in the face. He ended up getting beat up.

And as he escaped, he ran away to the police. And he immediately I did wrestle. Wow. So he was like, I mean, this is a guy. This is what he looks like. Russell was arrested immediately. And at first, he was like, what are you talking about? I don't even have maids. don't even have the first grade what are

you saying all these things and then finally the police are like listen to your 18 do you want to spend the rest of your life in jail blah blah blah I mean he was never gonna be spending the rest of his life in jail but you get it they were intimidating him and finally he was like okay fine John Wayne Gacy paid me to do it yeah so they arrest Gacy on top of the Sodomy Charge. Now he's arrested for hiring and assaulting Donald. Okay. So after his arrest, he had a 17-day psychiatric evaluation

because I mean, this was mind-boggling to people. Like, first of all, pedophilia. Sodomy charge on a 15-year-old when you're just not, I mean, just weird, just weird. And on top of that, who in their right mind hire someone to beat up a 15-year-old when you're in your 30s? Like, none of that makes sense.

Even 15-year-olds don't do that to other 15-year-olds. And so he had a 17-day psychiatric evaluation with two different doctors, and they diagnosed him. Yeah. With anti-social personality disorder, which consists of a long-term pattern of disregard and a complete violation of other people. They have typically a low moral code and little to no conscious. and little to no conscious. They have super impulsive, super aggressive behavior and they kind of have overlapping.

A lot of people get it confused. They don't think that this itself is a disorder. They think that either it has to do with sociopathie or psychopathy, but they just have a lot of the similar traits. Okay. And so the doc even said, I don't think that he's likely to get better with treatment. Like, it's unlikely.

It doesn't matter if we sit here and talk to him about his feelings for a 20-fuck an hour straight. I don't think that he's ever going to get better. He also cited on paper that his behavioral pattern is likely going to bring him to a lot of repeated conflict with society Which means he just does not function like a normal member of society. So at that point everybody Know that this dude's fucked up. Oh

Yeah, oh yeah, but he ends up going around just doing some wild shit for the rest of his life They said you know, but but he is mentally competent to stand trial So he's not insane. He's just, see, that's the thing. I feel like a lot of people use these things as excuses. So like, a lot of the times you'll see criminals do something and then you hear a doctor say, oh, well, they have been diagnosed, but that doesn't mean that they're insane. So that's why a lot of them end up standing trial.

So you can literally have no moral code. You can have long-term patterns of disregard and violating people and aggressive behavior, but you're still mentally competent. Right, right. And so he ends up standing trial. And in 1968, he pled guilty to one count of satami. He said that, you know, Donald was offering me services.

And Donald was like, listen, John, I will S-R-D. And I, I was as curious, you know? Curiosity got the best of me. That was what he told the judge. And the judge did not fucking believe him. He was like, you're a little lion as ho. I don't think so. And he sentenced him to 10 years in prison.

Okay. Yeah, don't be happy, because it won't last long. Literally, it'll last eight months. I mean, 10 years is that that sounds short now. It's it's short. But if you think that's short, it's gonna get a lot shorter. Okay. So the same day his wife files for divorce. She pretty much asks the judge for the house, the property, sole custody of the children and on top of that an alimony and she's awarded all of it. So good for her.

I really hope that she didn't partake in any of this. I really hope she didn't know this was going on and John would never see his children ever again. He would never see his wife ever again. They were just here. I don't know. Okay. They were just completely gone out of his life.

And so he has this jail time. He has 10 years and people kind of characterize him as a model prisoner. He had months into his prison sentence, he was the head cook, which is a very, very highly regarded position. He started his own JC like inmate chapter. And at that time enrollment was like 50 people, and he had up to two 650 people.

He had secured an increase in inmates daily pay in that prison. So yeah, and he started several projects to improve like conditions for inmates. I mean, at one point, this fucker was literally supervising the construction of a mini golf course in the recreation yard for these prisoners. And it's like, okay, it sounds like they're kind of living their life. I mean, typically when we talk about prisons, we're talking about some harsh conditions. Like, normally when I talk about prisons, I'm so mad at the person. But in this case, I'm like, that's a little weird. I don't know if they should be playing mini golf after, you know,

sadamizing a 15-year-old. But what the fork is going on. And so on Christmas day, that year that he's in prison his dad ends up dying and he falls to the floor once he finds out the news and he's just sobbing and he's like you can't even try to help him you can't even try to comfort him and what's even crazier is that they denied his supervised funeral attendance Which I don't really blame them, but I don't know if this really had such a big effect on John. I do know that he has some insane daddy issues, so I do think that this played somewhat of a role in his life. So his dad

ends up dying. And after 18 months of his 10 year sentence, he was released. That's crazy. How does that make sense? 18 months. A year and a half instead of 10, what the fork? And he was released with a 12-month probation. And he was released with two conditions. First of all, he was in an Iowa prison. And they said, you need to go back to Chicago.

You need to live with your mom. Like, you can't live by yourself. You can't live in Iowa. Like, we want you to be like someone's going to be accountable for you, even though you're a full grown man, because you're a criminal. And so you're going to live with your mom in Chicago. You're also going to have a 10 p.m. curfew.

OK. And if you break either of these, you're finito. You're back in jail. And so he's like, OK, sounds good. He immediately moves to Chicago, moves in with his mom, and he secures a job as a cook in a restaurant. Now, this is where assault number two takes place within a year. So during his probation, he gets charged with sexually assaulting a teenage boy in Chicago. And the teenage boy told everyone he said, listen, John leared me into his car at the bus terminal,

the Greyhound bus terminal. This will become John's favorite place later on. And he drove me home and he attempted to force me into having sex with him. And I really didn't want to, okay? And the case, he was arrested, but the case got dismissed. Because the boy didn't show up. He didn't show up to court

Oh my god And a lot of people think it probably had to do with embarrassment. Maybe shame maybe guilt a lot of these things the stigma of all of that Yeah, and what's even crazier is that nobody fucking told Iowa Nobody told his probation officer nobody told the Iowa justice system because this fucker was on probation. Yeah, but nobody told Iowa. So he proceeded to just act like the model probation citizen and eight months later his parole ended. Wow. So he just kind of got away with another assault. And so then at this point he's like, you know what? I'll buy a house.

He's like, mama, I'm a mama's boy, so mommy can you buy me a house? And I know I'm being mean, but I mean, I hate this guy. And so his mama's like, okay, I will financially assist you in purchasing this home. So they find a house and it was on Somerdale Road. So I'm gonna call it the Somerdale House.

And this is pretty much where all the well-known murders were committed. This is where the 28 bodies were found. And inside of this community, after he moves into this house, this was in Cook County, Illinois. After he moves in, he's really, really active. He's incredibly active with all of his neighbors. He was well loved. He was known to be very helpful. He would even loan out all of his construction tools. He would pull people's driveways for free when it was wintertime, and so he just was a likable

neighbor. People were like, he's a bomb ass neighbor, like cool, and he would throw these summer parties on an annual basis hundreds of people would attend, even local politicians. John Wayne Gacy was a super active member of the Democratic Party. I don't think that he had intentions to run for office or anything like that, but he was definitely very political. That's so weird. That's what I'm saying. I mean, this guy is weird. So like face, face value. He's super friendly, super helpful, you know, gets around with everybody, everybody likes him. And like what's weird is, okay, the JC thing, I kind of understand. I'm like, maybe he wants to be around younger men and take on that mentor role so that he can have

some sort of authority or power, right? But then some parts of this, I don't understand like being so active politically, but also on some parts of this I don't understand, like being so active politically, but also on top of that, I don't understand like his insane work ethic, like he just loved working and he would continue to work and be like a very, I mean, by the book, a good businessman. Yeah.

Yeah, that's weird. So by the book, he's doing well. Yeah, successful. Successful, well loved, active in his community, politically active. I mean, by the book, he's pretty fucking gnarly, he's cool. That's so strange. Until you get into his criminal record,

then he's not so cool. And so he enters marriage number two, once he moves into this house. A woman by the name of Carol Hoff. Now, she was a divorcee, she has two young daughters and she was a friend of Karen which is John's younger sister and they had kind of briefly dated when they were in high school. So this was just kind of going back into that comfort zone and he just felt like he felt really comfortable around Carol. And so she immediately

moves into the house with her two daughters. And a week before their freaking wedding, he gets arrested and charged with aggravated assault. So a young boy comes forward, a teenager underage, and he says, listen, I was just walking and John came out to me and he flashed a sheriff's badge, like a police badge, and he made me get into his car, which looked like a police car, and he even outfitted his car weird, like he would put those lights on top, and I saw his badge, and so obviously I was scared I was like I'm breaking the lawster, like what's going on, and I went into his car and he made me perform oral sex on him.

He said that I had to, unless I wanted to get arrested, and I would never get out of person. And so they arrested him, obviously, they arrested John. Because like you can't fake being a police officer and you also cannot assault an underage, like this is gross. And the charges were eventually again dropped. Because the teenager attempted to blackmail John. Which really, I mean, I don't want to say good

for the teenager at all because I don't know why the court dropped the charges, but I understand the anger. I understand being a teenager and being like, you know what, fuck this, like, yeah. Like that's messed up. And so they dropped those charges. So then he goes on to his next business venture. He gets married,

he's living in this house with his wife and his two kids, and he starts PDM contractors, and PDM stands for painting, decorating, and maintenance. And at first it started with a lot of minor work, so he'd be like, let me enter your house and paint your walls. And then later it went into like the big boy's scale of like remodels, landscaping, all of that. And at one point, he was bringing in $800,000 a year, this company. But it still was not enough for John Wayne Gacy. This is where I'm saying it's a little bit weird. He was obsessed with working. He was a workaholic.

So he got another job. He founded this company. He's the CEO of this company. He's running PDM, but at the same time he starts working from PE systems. Now this is a firm in based in Illinois and they specialize in pharmacy remodels. So they'll go into drug stores and they'll be like, hey, this looks outdated, we'll fix it all up because pharmacies have like crazy regulations of how certain things are placed

etc etc. Right? And so between these two jobs, he was a freaking worker hall. He traveled a lot, he just was obsessed with his work. So again, this is just so weird. Now, PDM, I can kind of see maybe why he started it. Because he would hire a lot of high school students and young boys, because you don't necessarily hire a lot of young girls to do all

these hefty remodels. So you'd hire a bunch of them and he would constantly try to have sex with them. He would just proposition them. He would say, hey, and if you guys give me sex, I will loan you my car. I'll give you a promotion. I'll give you more money. I'll give you financial assistance for whatever it is that you need. And one of them even reported to the police that John sat him down and was like, propositioning sex. And then one day was like, you don't have guns, right? I'm a ton of guns. And you know how easy it would be to kill people? And say, like, what? What the heck, dude? And then he finally gives in. And this murder is a very confusing murder.

This is the first murder that John Wayne Gacy committed, and it is not like any other serial killer's first murder. It was not intentional. It just was weird. So, there was a boy by the name of Timothy Jack McCoy and he was at the Greyhound bus station And he was traveling from Michigan to Omaha So he was passing through Illinois, or Chicago and so John sees him and he's like, hey, what are you doing? Like you just went around for a bus and he's like, well, I am at a bus station

And he is like, well, how would I give you a ride? Let me give you a sightseeing tour of Chicago and he was was like, okay, I mean, you seem cool, whatever. And around this time again, hitchhiking was relatively normal even for women. So just keep that in mind. This was not as abnormal as it sounds right now. And so he was like, yeah, I mean, I guess, but I do have to go catch my bus.

I mean, it's not for another like long time, like a day, but I start to catch my bus. So John's like, don't worry about it. Yeah, yeah. And so he drives him around Chicago, gives him like this amazing sightseeing tour. And then he's like, you know what? It's still not time for your bus. Why wait out in the cold? Why don't you come to my house? And I'll take care of you. And don't worry, I'll take you back in time so that you can catch your bus to Omaha. And so he's like, okay, I guess that sounds cool. And so John goes to sleep in his own bedroom.

Timothy goes to sleep in a guest bed. And John wakes up and he sees Timothy in his doorway holding a knife. And so John immediately stands up from his bed and he's like, what the fork? And Timothy was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, and he put up his hands almost in like the surrendering form, like putting his hands up in the air

Like the police tell you to do and as he was doing that because he had a knife in his hand He accidentally cut John a little bit on his wrist and John gets upset by this and so he wrestles the knife out of Timothy's hand Yeah, and he starts just wrestling him and finally a fight in sus and he was able to pin Timothy, this young boy down onto the ground, and continues to stab him multiple times in the chest. Now, Tim is dying. He is not immediately dead when your stab multiple times in the chest. It's not like a painless, immediate death. It's a prolonged death. And so he is the way that John described it was gurgling for air. And so he is laying in his bedroom floor, dying. And John goes to wash off the blood from the knife and he walks into the kitchen and he

realizes that Timothy had made them breakfast. And he had walked into John's room to wake him up and he just, like, mindlessly forgot that there's a knife in his hand. Oh my gosh. And just said, Hey, and John got really just crazy defensive, I guess, and ended up murdering him. It was all a misunderstanding. Now, for a lot of people who might have a misunderstanding like this, maybe you did want to do something out of the goodness of your heart. You pick up someone, you bring them in your house, and then you see them in your doorway

with a knife, and you end up murdering them. I don't think how that's possible because there's just a lot of things that are weird with the story. But anyways, let's say you end up murdering them. You would think that you would call the police explain the situation. It was self-defense, ABC&D. This was like, you have the wrong idea, ABC and D, and then you would regret it for the rest of your life. And this would be this heavy,

heavy guilt-shame baggage that you would carry for the rest of your life, right? Right? No, because John said that this, when he was stabbing Timothy, he had never orgasmed like that before. He had never orgasmed like that before. Yeah, he said he had a mind numbing orgasm while Timothy was grasping for air. Holy fuck. And this is, in quotes, what John said. That's when I realized death was the ultimate thrill. Oh my goodness.

And then almost immediately he had his second murder. It was still an unidentified male who was strangled in his house. He placed him into the closet before burying him in a cross space. So this house had a cross space underneath it. So there was open air underneath this house that you could crawl around under. And he dug a bunch of graves inside of his cross space. Wait, so is the wife home?

The wife would go frequently to visit her family out of town. And he would perform. Yeah. And so he had this tendency to place these victims into their closet or under his bed before he would actually move them to the cross space because he has to dig up the grave inside the cross space, etc., etc. And he said in his second murder he learned a lot because he strangled this person and he put them in his closet before burying him.

And he was kind of annoying because he started having these bodily fluids that were leaking out of his mouth and his nose and it stained the carpet. And so now, now he's really good. He learned something from this, which is from now on, he always stuffs the victim's mouth with either a rag, clothing, or underwear to prevent leakage. Because he doesn't want more stains on his carpet. Yeah. to prevent leakage because he doesn't want more stains on his carpet. Yeah, that's what he says that he learned from murder number two. Like is he still assaulting these people before killing them?

Yeah, he would assault them first. And then kill them. Yeah, well, kill them. Yeah, sorry, he is not an native English speaker. Sorry, I just want to, because people get mad sometimes. And yes, and now let's move on to more assaults. I mean, this guy is just so gross. Some shit goes down in Florida.

So he's living in Chicago, Illinois, and he ends up buying a new property in Florida. And he's like, you know what? I'm gonna go check out my new property in Florida. And one of his employees, who's young, I believe he was 19 at the time or something of that sort, was like, oh, like that's so cool. Mr. Gasey, like, you have a place in Florida, like, I've never been in Florida. And he's like, you want to go to Florida. And so they're like, okay, yeah, that sounds cool. And so they go to Florida together. And inside of the hotel room, John ends up raping this employee. It was not persuading, it was not convincing, I mean this was just very, very, it was rape.

And I mean not that none of the others were, but it just was, you get it. There was no like drinking involved there, didn't seem to be any persuasion involved, it was, it was rape. And so they end up coming back to Chicago. And this is the first time his wife sees something, which is after he gets back to Chicago, the employee comes back with him and the employee is acting like, you know, everything is going to be okay. Until the employee decided, you know what, everything is not going to be okay. And so he called Mr. John Wayne Gacy, told him to meet him in his backyard.

So John goes out to his own backyard. Uh-huh. And the boy ends up coming with his friends and beating the shit out of John Wayne Gacy. Fucking him up. And so obviously he's got bruises and busted lips and black guys everywhere. And he walks into the house and his wife is like, oh my gosh, like sweetie what's wrong? And he's like, okay so this dude, he gave me such poor quality work on the construction side and I refused to pay him because he did shit work and then he ended up beating me

up and his wife was like, oh my gosh, like it's so hard to be a business man. That's it? That's what she saw? Yeah, and it didn't seem like that kid went to the police or anything like that. I think he just took justice into his own hands. Which I, this case has a lot of, a lot of things society is taking a big look at. Which is, I think it's still difficult, still insanely difficult for women to come out. But I think it's even more difficult, even more so for young men or just men in general to come out on allegations

like this. And so he just kind of justes into his own hands and he did not report it to the police. But John Wayne, Gacy didn't go after the boy? No. So he's kind of like very evil and very scary but also a little bitch at the same time. It's very confusing. I see. Yeah. And so Anthony is the next victim. He's 15 years old. Wow. John hires him. He ends up coming to house, and they drink two bottles of wine together, and they watch a lot of porn. Heterosexual porn, because Anthony is straight.

And so John's like, oh, you gotta see this, and so he'll play this heterosexual porn. And then John was like, you know, let me just do something really cool. And he handcuffed Anthony. Now, Anthony, what John didn't know is a wrestling student. And he handcuffed Anthony. Now Anthony, what John didn't know, is a wrestling student. So he's a wrestler.

So he ends up getting one of the handcuffs loose. And he escapes the handcuffs. John goes out of the room to grab something, which I'm sure was not something good. And he comes back and Anthony, instead of running away, this 15-year-old decides to completely tackle this, I mean, John Wayne Gacy was considered obese medically speaking, so he, this 15 year old, just tackles him to the ground, and handcuffs John Wayne Gacy. Now, how the turn tables, right? And so he's like, what the fuck are you doing old man? Like, why did you handcuff me? Like, what are your thoughts? Like, what are you trying to do? And at first John Wingacy's mad. He's like, I will freaking tell your parents you are never gonna like I'm gonna kill you blah blah blah.

And the dude's like no like I'm 15. You try to handcuff me now. You're handcuffs. So I really don't think that you have any power right now. And so then finally John's like you know what you're right. Like I'll just leave. Like I'm just gonna gonna go home and he's like if you just let me go like it's I promise I'll never come back like he's just turning into a little bitch wait whose house are they in it was oh I'm sorry it was Anthony's yeah I see so he's like I just promise I'll never come back I'm surprised this guy his crime went along for so long. Yeah, that's what a lot of people say. It went on for so long that he even met the first lady of the United States of America and this would become an international embarrassment to

the great states of America. Yeah, and so that happens with Anthony. Anthony ends up letting him go and then they don't really talk about it. Now the next murder happens by the name of John Bocavich. I think I'm saying his name right. His car was found in a parking lot with his jacket and his keys still in the ignition and his parents are very confused about this. And days before John went missing, like days before the John went missing, days before the victim went missing, he had already approached John because he worked for John.

And he said, listen John, I work for you and you haven't paid me for my work. Like where's my back pay? Like you owe me my money. And so he had confronted John Wayne Gacy about it and then nothing happened. John Wayne Gacy did not pay him. And then suddenly he goes missing. His car was left in a parking lot. And so his parents. John Wayne D. Gacy did not pay him and then suddenly he goes missing.

His car was left in a parking lot and so his parents called John Wayne Gacy and they're like, hey listen, I know that you guys had probably a heated altercation, like did something happen? Yeah. Like we won't be mad, like did something happen and John Wayne Gacy's like, no, what are you talking about? Of course not, I paid him and he went on his merry way and it would be more than happy to help you look for your son. I mean, I don't know where he could possibly be. And he was just kind of sweet talking to the parents and the parents did not believe it. And so they called the police and they called them over a hundred times. John Bukovic's parents called over a hundred times telling the police to particularly investigate John Wayne, Gacy.

And they didn't. And John Wayne, Gacy will later admit that he convinced young John to come to his house, because he'll pay him, and then rape tortured and then murder time. And then bury him underground. Yeah. And then he became a club. How did that come about? So he ended up joining like this local moose club is also another community to help children and teens in need.

So he becomes a local member of the moose club. And inside the moose club, there's another group of people and they call themselves the Jolly Jokeer Club. And most of the people in the Jolly Jokeer Club are really cool dudes. Like, they just like to do this on the side. They like to go to birthday parties and like cheer people up. They like to go to children's hospitals and make them laugh. So they really, like, most of them do this for the sheer fact if they want to help people.

And they like, you know, doing magic tricks. And just to dude, without clown make a bond doing magic tricks, it wasn't as cool back in the days so they were like, let's, let's, let's, we clowns together. And so he met these people and he's like, you know what, I like to do that. I like to perform at fundraising events and parades and like, children's hospitals. And so he became pogo the clown and patches the clown.

He would even design his own costumes. He taught himself how to apply clown makeup. I mean, he was just a the clown. He would even design his own costumes. He taught himself how to apply clown makeup. I mean, he was just a full clown. And his motive was to get close to the kids. See it, it's weird. Yes and no. So he would use things that he would learn from being a clown for his victims, but he would never take victims from what seemed to be like these hospitals or these fundraising events, victims from what seemed to be like these hospitals or these fund rising events. Usually. And so his first instance was with an 18 year old that was hitchhiking. His name was David.

And so he's hitchhiking on the side of the road. And John Wayne Gacy opens his door. Since this list then I'll give you a little ride. And so he gets into the car and John's like, you know, why are you hitchhiking? My love, like what's going on? And so he's like, you know, I don't really have a job. And he's like, what are you doing job? really have a job. And he's like, why don't I do your job? I have a company.

We do some construction work. I mean, it's not the easiest work in the world, but I mean, you're a young boy. You could do it. And so he's like, are you serious? Like, that'd be amazing. And so he starts working for PDM. And a month later, because he doesn't have a house,

he ends up moving in with the gaseas. And a month later, because he doesn't have a house, he ends up moving in with the gaseas. And so then Out comes Pogo the Clown. So he comes home from being Pogo the Clown one day at like a fun rising event. And he gets David Drunk, this 18 year old Drunk, and he starts being like, you know, I wanna show you a magic trick.

And so he would put handcuffs on himself. John would put handcuffs on himself. John would put handcuffs on himself and would say look and then his handcuffs would fall off and be like that's cool magic right? Do you want me to teach you how to do it? And typically they'd be like that's pretty cool like I want to learn and so he'd put the handcuffs on this boy and then he'd be like okay now this is what you do and the boy would try to get out of it and he couldn't get out of it And John would say see the key to this trick. Yeah, it's to be the one with the key and then he would try to assault them Now in this situation it didn't work He told David that he was gonna rape him. I don't know why like he told him that but he did

He ended up grabbing David by his handcuffs and like swing him around the room and like saying I'm gonna rape you Very strange, but somehow David ended up getting free Okay, and he ended up trying again and then David ended up getting free and then finally after a couple months he moved out So he stayed there. Yeah, because he happened He didn't have any choices and he he still would occasionally work for PDM sometimes for the next couple of years. Wow. But that seems to be the first reported case

where he started using his clown antics to kind of fit in with his crimes. And so let's talk about the politics behind this. He was an avid Democrat, and he would even offer to clean party office headquarters for free. So if you had a Democratic office, like literally it's a you just do things for the party inside of that office, he would clean it for free with his contractors. And so he was really beloved amongst politicians, amongst Democrats. He

was, you know, kind of like that cool person. And he even met Roslyn Carter, Jimmy Carter's wife, the first lady of the United States at that point, and they took a picture together. And that picture would fucking haunt America for so long, because that picture he was wearing an S pin. If you don't know what an S pin is, the secret service would give those out to people that cleared, that was cleared. And you don't get to meet the first lady unless you're cleared by the secret service because that's the fucking first lady. Like it's not just like a meet and greet, you can't just show up and being like,

what's up, Miss Carter, like, what's happened? And so that pin in that picture would later just make a laughing stock out of the secret service internationally. Wow. Yeah. And it was just a huge embarrassment for everyone. So why would he there just just for all of his good work? And laughing because of how sad and ridiculous this is. And then he ends up telling his wife, he's bisexual, finally.

He's like, listen, Carol, I really wanna sing this song, I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do it. Carol Baskin. Kilder has been whacked, sorry. Okay, so he ends up telling his wife, Carol, that he's bisexual. And on Mother's Day, they have sex.

I think this is all sorts of forked up. Carol is a mother of two children. And they have sex. And on Mother's Day, he tells her, this is gonna be the last time you and I ever have sex, Carol. And she's just like, what? And he's like, we're never doing it ever again. And she's like, what?

Like, did I do something? Like, what? Like, you I do something? Like, what? Like, you just told me you're bisexual, and now you don't wanna have sex with me? Like, what's going on? Yeah. And so he's like, don't worry about it. We're just never having sex again.

And she's like, this is weird. Maybe it's a face. Like, maybe he'll get over it. And so then later, after this, he would just start spending a lot of times away from home. He would say, I'm working late. I can't come home tonight. He would spend a lot of his evenings away.

And then finally, Carol was catching on to a lot of things. She started seeing that teenage boys were being brought into the house by way of the garage. And she would look at her window and yet again was another teenage boy. And she thought this was strange. She would find tons of gay porn laying around in their house. Again, very strange. She would find men's wallets and IDs in their house. Why would he have that? And so she confronts John and she's like, why would you have

these IDs? Why would you have these wallets? I mean, it's one thing to be like your bisexual. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're bisexual. You're still cheating on me. Like, it doesn't matter. I never agreed to an open marriage just because they're of the same sex. Like, what do you mean, right? Yeah. She's like, first of all, you're cheating on me. That's not okay. I didn't care what gender they are. I don't care. That's not okay.

Second of all, why do you have men's wallets and IDs in your house? Yeah. And John just said, that's not of your fucking business, Carol. But they're still together. So she divorced him. Okay. And she says I'm done, but she couldn't really leave. So she stayed from October to February

until the divorce was finalized. This divorce was gonna prove to be very, very bad. For a job. Because murders, number four, through 16, happened almost immediately after the divorce. One month after his divorce, he murdered his fourth victim, Darrell Samson, who was also 18 and buried under the cross space.

Five weeks after Darrell was Randall Reffett, who was 15. He disappeared while walking home from school, and he was also buried in the cross-base. The same night that he murdered Randall Raffet, he ended up getting Samuel, who was 14, who was also walking home. And he murdered him and buried him in the cross-base. I mean, the frequency of these kills are very, very strange for serial killings. It's just too frequent. Especially so early on. So serial killers have this very strange thing where

they'll have their first murder and then a while goes by and then their second, a while goes by. And then near the end just before they're caught is typically when you see rapid fire killings because it just becomes like this crazy and satiable addiction that they, you know, kind of have. because it just becomes like this crazy insatiable addiction that they, you know, kind of have. Whereas for this one, it just was so many. I mean, they're just, the frequency of this was alarming and it's crazy how we got away with it because, typically, with circulars,

you don't really get this frequency because of the craziness of the circumstances, like you're gonna get caught. Like you're not that good. There's no way you can find victims like this, you know? And then June through August alone, he had 10 murders. Michael, 17, William, 16, three unidentified 16 to 20 year olds, James, 15, Rick, 17, Kenneth, teenager, Michael, teenager, William, 19. And this all local. Yeah.

People who wow. And so now at this point, we're up to 16 bodies under his cross space. Yeah. And so how did he do this? Because I feel like I'm listing a lot of victims. But we really need to understand the emotional trauma and everything that they went through to really kind of feel for these people.

Otherwise, they're just names on a paper. Because I feel like it's in our human mind that we don't want to imagine these things you know but it's very important. His MO was that he would always go to the Greyhound bus station. That was his favorite place to pick up people or he would maybe pick up hitchhikers on the streets or there was this very beautiful park in Chicago that a lot of young boys would go to and he would either take them by force. By gunpoint, he would either say, hey, I'm a police officer and you need to come with me with his fake

share of spatch. He would either say, hey, I'm going to hire you to work for my company. You want to make a bajillion dollars and these young boys would be like, really? Like, yeah, I do, yeah, fuck yeah. I know where he would use drugs, alcohol, and some of them he would say, hey, I'll give you $100 for a blowjob and they would go because these young boys needed money. He literally did everything. Yeah, and his favorite way is something that he dubbed the handcuffed trick. It's exactly what I told you. He would get them drunk.

He would say, hey, do you want to see a magic trick? Which like those words now scare the shit out of me. No sir, I do not. And so he'd be like, hey, you wanna see a magic trick and then he would cuff his own hands and he'd have the key. Then he'd free himself and then be like, I'll teach you how to do it to yourself. But then he would never let them free.

And then he would rape them. And then he started getting a lot more torturous. And he would burn them with cigars. He would get onto their back while they're walking on all fours and make them pretend to be horses. Well, he would, yeah, I mean, he's just getting insane during that time. He would sotimize them, which means through the rectum, with dildos, big dildos, and like weird things like prescription bottles.

And then he started really being into drowning. He would fill up his bathtub with water, and he would grab these boys, and he would dunk their heads into water, and then he would revive them, and then he would keep doing it, and then he'd rape them, and then he'd drown them, and then he'd rape them and then he'd drown them and then he'd rape them and then drown them. I mean, these were not easy deaths. I feel like because of the frequency of the victims, we might be trying to convince ourselves like maybe they died painlessly, like maybe it wasn't as bad, but no, they were very torturous deaths.

And they use, he would use a rope to suffocate them. And this takes a long time. Suffocating someone is not an easy process. I've talked about it before, it's not easy. I don't know from personal experience, but from all the medical things that I've read, it's not a short oopsie-dope-se, saw this in a movie five seconds and we're done. It's a long process.

And so sometimes he would read them the Bible as he's doing this, which again is so so strange and a lot of psychologists try to analyze this because I mean There's no evidence that he was super religious. He definitely was Very suppressed in his sexuality and to read the Bible is a little strange because typically the Bible is Back then less now known for being against homosexuality. So it's just very strange. So sometimes he would read them Bible verses 23 songs in particular and that one I googled it is said that like Lord is your shepherd like don't be afraid of death or something through the valley of the I don't know

it's very dark. It's not like a fun Bible verse for sure. And so he would read these and he said a lot of the times these victims would convulse for an hour or two. Like they would lay their dying for an hour or two. It was not fast. It was not easy. So did he enjoy that? Yeah, and he would put them under his bed before he would bury them.

So he would sleep on top of these victims. And he'd get off on that too. Yeah. And he said there were a lot of times where like there would be someone dying in his bedroom and he would just like go in the other room and like work. He would have business calls. He would answer emails. I mean, what the quote?

So he lived two lives. He has a somewhat of a regular life in front of people. Yeah, but I mean, that's what's interesting. I don't understand how that works. So I wouldn't, I would say that you are kind of a workaholic. I would put you more so in that category as a workaholic. I think if I didn't say anything, you'd probably spend all day working.

Yeah, because yeah, so I can't imagine you having something also like so intense on the side. It just doesn't make sense. It's so weird Typically workaholics are known for literally only being obsessed with work But he had this side of him where he was a workaholic, but at the same time like he did all of this I don't it's just strange. And so then, 1977 rolls around. It's a new year, and in this year, he will have murders from his 16th murder

to his 21st murder in the year of 1977. January, he had a 19-year-old employee by the name of John, and he leared him in by the idea of buying his car So John had this car and he was like, you know what? I'm buying a car from you and he was like, really? I've been looking to sell my car and so he's like, yeah, yeah, that's good That's good. Like just come on over and I'll sell you the car or I'll tell I'll take the car from you I'll pay you for the car. Yeah, he ends up murdering him and keeping the car

How is all all these happening in no police car onto this? Yeah, and then he'll have another identified victim, another boy by the name of John, another identified victim, and Matthew, who's 19 years old, and he would murder all of them. And then he was arrested. OK. And he was arrested for stealing gasoline.

Like again, this is where I'm very confused. The dude smart, the dude is evil, the dude is conniving and torturous and grows and I hate him, but at the same time he's dumb. It's weird. And so he stole gasoline from a gas station and he was arrested and he did this while he was driving John's car, the one that he murdered, the 19 year old that he murdered. And when questioned him He said oh John sold it to me in like in February They're like he did and he's like yeah, he said that he's skipping town He didn't want to be here anymore, and so he needed money. So I paid for this car They checked the vid number it is attached to John and they did not investigate further

and and they did not investigate further. What the fuck? And so by the end of 1977, there was another six young men added to his cross-base. They were age 16 to 21. Notably, one of them was the son of a police sergeant, and another one was actually a US Marine. Oh my god. So he, I mean, it's very strange. You don't really see a lot of serial killers who don't really, that are that ballsy. Yeah. Typically with serial killers who have such a high number of victims go for, this is so messed up also. I mean, I'm, this is just statistically speaking, I'm not saying this is okay in any way. Like, I've talked about

how much I think this is annoying and just infuriating. They go for a lot of sex workers, they go for workers that are in the quote, lower risk category of them getting caught. Yeah, those are more like easier targets, right? Yeah, and so this is just strange that he got away with just killing a bunch of young boys who have loving caring parents that are like, where the fuck is my son? Yeah. And then he does something weird. Uh-huh. who have loving, caring parents that are like, where the fuck is my son? Yeah. And then he does something weird. Uh-huh.

He meets a guy by the name of Robert Donnelly, who's 19 years old. And he ends up getting him into his car by gunpoint from the Chicago bus stop. And he rapes him, he tortures him, he repeatedly dunks his head into the bath to up until he passes out. And so up until this point, everything seems like his normal MO. And this is what he does to all of his victims that he kills. And he would say things like, aren't we playing fun games tonight? To Robert Donnelly and Robert would be like, this is freaking scary. Like, please just kill me.

Like, please just let this end. I mean, he was getting drowned and then revived, drowned and revived and then raped and tortured. I mean, he had just, he had just a lot of trauma to his body and mentally and emotionally, and he was begging to be killed, and he said, I'm getting around to it. And so he was like, okay, like, I'm just going to get tortured for, I don't know how much longer, and then I'm finally going to get killed. And then, and then he put him into his car, and John Wayne Gacy drove Robert back to

where Robert worked and just released him. What? And before he got out of the car, he looked at Robert and said, if you complain to the police, just know that they won't fucking believe a word you say. And he drove away. And Robert was like, oh yeah, bet. And he ran to the police station. And he filed a police statement. And he's like, I was literally just tortured, assaulted, almost murdered like, I mean, with a file, right? And so then the police were

like, okay, well, let's go get him. And they get John Wayne Gacy into the police station. And John's like, yeah, I know him. Well, how do you know him? Well, he's kind of like my sex slave. What? Yeah, so I agreed to pay him to be my sex slave and he wanted me to do these crazy things like drown him in shit. He's a weird dude. And so I did it. And I think that he reported me to the police because I didn't pay him.

I just thought I could be slick. I thought I could just use police because I didn't pay him. I just thought I could be slick. I thought I could just use his services and then not pay him. I guess I was really bad, huh? I just, I don't know. I guess he was charging a lot. I just didn't pay him. I mean, it was consensual.

But yeah, I didn't pay him. What? Okay. And so then the police believed him. And they did not file any charges. Why? I don't know. I mean, John was very charismatic. Wow.

And then he had another change in his M.O. which is very strange for serial killers, but I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that he was running out of space in his cross space. That is how many victims were there. And so he changes his ML once again, and he meets a guy by the name of Jeffrey, and he is 26 years old. And he chloroforms Jeffrey this time, which is like a drug that just knocks you out.

Usually in the form of a rag, that's why a lot of people are very scared when they see some dude with like a glove on, walking up to them with like a napkin or a rag in their hand They're like oh fuck you fuck out of here, right? And so he chloro-fones Jeffrey drives him to his house tortures him rapes him And then he just drives him back to Lincoln Park and then he just dumps him I mean he's unconscious, but he's very well alive

He just dumps him and so Jeffrey wakes up and this was not like, I know it sounds like, well, Jeffrey's alive, but he has permanent damage to his liver to this day from the chloroform. He has severe chest and face burns from the cigars. He has rectal bleeding. He immediately stagger somehow to his girlfriend's apartment.

I mean, he was strong, like survivor strong. And he goes to the police station and he informs them of everything. And they're like, well, we don't know who that is. Like, who are you talking about? And he's like, well, I don't remember. I was literally chloroformed. I don't fucking remember.

And this kind of is almost reminiscent of the toy box killer, where he would let them go after all of these drugs, because they just don't remember. So he's like, well, I don't remember in the place where like, then we don't have a crime if we don't have a criminal. Like, we can take your statement, but we don't really know how to help you.

Isn't your job to find out? Yeah. Oh my gosh. And so then he's like, all right, fuck this shit. So him and his friends get together. And he's like, okay,, fuck this shit. So him and his friends get together. And he's like, okay, guys, this is what I know. I remember seeing this car. It was black and this is what it looked like.

This is the MAKA model. And for some reason, I feel like I was on this highway and I got off the specific exit. Like, I don't know if it's true. I just remember that. Am I right? I don't know. And so the friends were like, get in the car.

Like, we're just gonna sit by that exit on that highway. And we're gonna see if that car ever passes. What? And so they get into the car and they wait there for days and days and days. And finally, they see the same car. And they follow it. They follow it all the way back to the Somardale House,

where John Wayne Gasey is. That's crazy. And so then finally, the police believe him. They issue an arrest warrant and they arrest John Wayne Casey. Is that it? Nope. He was arrested. First salt, he was let out on bail, what the fork. And in 1978, like I said, he didn't have enough crawl space.

He didn't have enough place to murder these victims and to bury their bodies. And it's really intense. So I think that's why he was kind of experimenting, per se, with these two victims to try to see if they could release them and try to use the fear tactic that didn't work. He ended up going to the police anyway. And so then he was like, let's use the drug tactic that didn't

work. And so he's like, I need to figure something else out. OK, is not working and so he decided to just go off the interstate 55 bridge and there's a river there and he would just toss victims off the bridge into the river and so in 1978 his entire crawlspace is freaking full of victims He decides to throw five bodies off the bridge fill of victims, he decides to throw five bodies off the bridge. This man is so bossy and insane. Yeah, and only four of them would be found later on.

Then we have a 15 year old boy by the name of Robert. Now Robert would be the undoing of John Wayne Gacy. Robert was 15 years old and he was an employee at a pharmacy. And John was there to visit this pharmacy to talk about a potential remodel. So he's just trying to convince the store and are like, let me just, you know, pimp out your pharmacy. It's going to be so much better, etc, etc, etc.

And he sees this 15 year old Robert and he's intrigued. So he goes up to Robert and he says, you know, how much are you making at this pharmacy? And he's like, well, I'm making like this much now. And he's like, you know, I can pay you double that. If you come work for me. Uh-huh. And he's like double, like double my pay, like what am I doing?

Yeah. And he's like, well, you'd be doing some like contracting work. It'd be like painting, you know, nothing like too crazy. And at 15 years old, you're like double my pay. And so he's like, that's insane. And the store was closing, right? And so Robert's mom came to pick him up because Robert's 15, and she was really excited

to pick him up, because it was her 46th birthday. And she was ready to get home. They already had this crazy dinner celebration plan with the entire family, and she just had to pick up Robert. And so she's like, Robert's waiting to get in the car. And so he gets into the car and he's like, mom, mom, mom, please don't hate me, please don't hate me. And she's like, why was was wrong, sweetie?

And she's like, okay. So this guy is offering me a job, like at a contracting business. I don't really know. But anyways, do you mind if I'm like 10 minutes late to dinner? Like I'm just gonna go talk to him real quick and then I will come back home. He said he'll drop me off.

I he just wants to like, you know, talk to me, like interview me, I guess. I don't know, mom, is that okay? And she's like, are you sure? And he's like, yeah, yeah, he knows my boss, they're friends, they're gonna do some business together. Anyways, he just needs employees, so I'm just gonna go, do you mind, do you mind?

And so his mom was like, okay Robert, yeah, just don't be too late, be safe, okay, make sure you get home. Don't be too late. And so he gets into John make sure you get home. Don't be too late. And so he gets into John Wayne Gacy's car and John drives him back to his house where he tortures him and he rapes him and he murders him. Oh my God, this guy is that ballsy.

Yeah. Even after the mother has seen him. Yeah, and his family, they file a police report and they talk to the pharmacy owner and they're like, do you know who exactly he was talking to? They said that you were friends, he's talking about a contracting business, and the pharmacy owner is like, yes, it's this person, John Wayne Gacy, you know, he owns PDM, and the investigator who's put on this case was kind of pivotal because he also had a son who went to the same

high school as Robert. So it is getting a lot more personal now. And so he does a routine check that a lot of police officers didn't do until this point, which is fucking nuts to me. And he found out that he had a battery charge in Chicago. And he also served in Iowa for a sawdemy of a 15 year old boy. Oh wow. Robert is 15. So they say, okay, let's go to the house. So they immediately go to John Wayne Gacy's house and he's like denying the whole thing. He's like, what are you talking about? Like that's right now. They're like, why can't you right now?

And he's like, because my uncle is dead. My uncle just died. I don't know how much truth there is to this, but he says something that's so strange that they even wrote down in police statements that will later become so creepy. OK. Because the police were like, OK, I'm sorry for your loss,

but when can you come to the police station? And he goes, you guys are very rude. Don't you have any respect for the dead? Says the man with 28 bodies buried under his house. Yeah. And so the police wrote that on their statement. He comes into the police station later that night. He's like, nope.

I never told him to come over. I never told him I was gonna offer him a job. I mean, that's really weird. And so the police, they let him go, but they can't arrest him. There's really no proof. I mean, there's no proof that anything bad happened to Robert at this point.

And so they're like, okay, well, I guess you can go and the police start working on a case. And they think that Robert is alive. They're being very optimistic. They think that Robert is being held captive. Because they don't know that this is a serial killer at this, you know, nobody knows. Otherwise, you'd be in jail.

So they issue their first search warrant. And this first search warrant, I'm just going to list the evidence that they gathered because it's a lot. They found several fake police badges. They found guns. They found syringes and needles handcuffs, on homosexuality and pedophilia capsules of amuletrite which is a drug an 18 inch dildo I'm just let 18 inches stick in or not stick it. I mean I'm sorry. I'm sorry sink in so

What are they gonna do with all of that nothing? So what are they gonna do with all of that? Nothing. Valium, atropine, which slows the heartbeat. Several ideas belonging to several different men. Oh. Men's underwear. That was obviously way too small to fit John Wayne Gacy. Once again, he has medically obese.

And the, the underwear was a very, very skinny, almost teenage, like very young boys, right? Yeah. A high school ring. From the high school that Robert went to, but it wasn't Robert's because it was a different class. It was a different year of graduation and also it had initials on it. And a nylon rope measuring 36 inches.

36 inches. What does that mean? 36 inches. What does that mean? Does that meanying someone up? Or choking them. Oh wow. And so then they couldn't arrest him.

Because see it again. He has no tied a robber. There's no reason to arrest him just because he has some weird ass shit in his house. And so they decide to get a bunch of surveillance teams on him. So there's a bunch of police officers, and they start surveilling him. Now again, this is where it gets all sorts of forked up, OK? John Wayne Gacy starts befriending the surveillance team,

and he starts taking them out to dinners and stuff, and the surveillance team would go, because they're like, maybe he's going to say some shit. And John would start to taunt them, because he knew that he could not be arrested on tiny, tiny charges. And so he'd say shit like, you know, he would brag about running red lights, he would brag about these traffic violations. And one day, he even told these surveillance teams, you know, I'm a clown, right? And they're like, yeah, we know. And he's like, you know, clowns, they can pretty much get away with murder.

What does that mean? Exactly. And they're like, what? Like, why would you say that unless you're taunting us? Right? And so he would just continue to do this and again and again, but it was affecting him. Okay.

Months into this, he was unshaven. He looked tired, anxious, he was drinking a lot of alcohol, and he ended up getting an attorney, and he says, you know what? This isn't cool. Excuse me, attorneys, I would like to sue the police department, and the attorneys are like, what? What do you mean? He's like, I want to sue this shit out of them, because they're surveilling me for no reason and it's affecting my mental health. And so they're like, okay, so they sue the police department for him because he's paying for the service. So they sue the shit out of the police department.

And while they're being held in this civil law suit, they do a second search warrant. Again, they find nothing, but a smell. Something smelled a little bit like decaying bodies. And it wouldn't have been there the first time they searched the house because it was really cold. Now we're in the summer months, and they can smell a little something. But again, no proof. And so they start trying to be a little bit more strategic with their investigations, which I don't know why they didn't do in the first place. Whatever. I'm a police officer, but this invariates me. And so they start,

you know, interviewing a lot of their employees from PDN. And they find two employees who confess to the police that they were told to spread lime under the cross space. Lime is something that you can buy from Home Depot. I know it's called Home Depot, okay? From Loes, literally any home gardening place. What is lime? Quick lime is like this thing. It's like you put it in soil

or in these construction sites to prevent certain things. Got it. And I'm sure there's a lot of like actual professional reasons for it, otherwise it wouldn't be sold. But one thing that it also does is that it helps slow down the decaying process of human bodies. So like if you were murdering people and then like you have a receipt on file on your credit card of like buying tons of lime, like that's you're going to get caught. So, okay. And so these employees were like, well, I mean at

one point he did tell us to go into the cross space to like pour some lime under there They're like, what? They're like, yeah, now they know and John knows that they know he knows that he's gonna be up for soon And so John he drinks and he drinks and he drives straight into his lawyer's office and And he's sitting down with his two attorneys, and he just starts talking. He's like, listen, I did kill some people. I really did. Yeah, um, they're in my house. I killed them and I put them in the cross space.

And then some of them, I kind of threw in the river. Uh-huh. And he's super drunk at this point. What the heck is what you're gonna do now? Yeah, and he starts confessing for hours. This was just hours and hours of confessing. And he's like, but you know what? They kind of deserved it because they're positive.

And they're like, what? And yeah, they're like little hustlers. Like they wanted to make money. And then I told them I'd give them money, but then they didn't want to do it. And so, yeah, does that happen? I mean, they're just little liars. And the lawyers were like, well, how did you? And he's like, oh, I did something called the rope trick where I just kind of like

choke them with a rope. They're like, um, and he was like, yeah, I mean, it's so weird. I mean, sometimes I would just wake up from bed and I would see like this dead kid on my floor. I'm not just be like, that's weird, but whatever, I just bury them in the cross space. And I'd be like, what? And he's like, they're property, guys. Like, don't even worry about it. Like, why are you all getting emotional? Like, why do you guys look scared?

These are little boys and they were my fucking properties. So I buried them in my cross space. Like that's how he was acting. Okay, what the hell is the lawyer gonna do now? And it was so crazy because he fell asleep midway into this conversation. And so the two lawyers are sitting there staring at each other and they're like, okay, what do we do?

And so they were like, yeah, okay. So the first thing that we're gonna do is we're gonna schedule a psychiatric appointment for tomorrow morning because either he's really forked in the head because he actually did this or he's forked in the head because he's saying some nonsense and there are no boys in his cross-base, right? We just kind of understand what's going on with this dude. And so immediately he wakes up in the morning and the lawyers are like, okay, John, good morning, how are

you? Good, okay. So we actually booked you an appointment, really crucial that you do it. Maybe we can grab some coffee on the way. It's a psychiatric appointment. And so John looks at him and he goes, what can't do that right now? I've got a lot of things I gotta do. I've got some work. I've got to make some phone calls.

I have like a business meeting in a minute. Yeah. I gotta go. And so he just leaves the lawyer's office. And they're just kind of like in any cell, they're like, what do we do? Do these lawyers not turn him? Technically no. They do not. They personally do not.

I don't know where are the laws. I mean, Exactly. Do they not get any trouble or something like this? So there is a turning client privilege. Yeah. But that's why you never really tell attorneys that you're guilty Yeah, that's why you usually like they know Because of the way you say things Yeah, and because of your story is not really amazing. Yeah, but you never really say it out right?

So where where does does this stand as a good lawyer? Do you protect our clients? Technically as a good lawyer you would protect the client because that's... Even though this client literally is out there killing people, one after one after one? We would never be friends with those types of people, but I would say, I would say, I don't know how it works in the criminal law world. I mean, we've never associated with, you know, with what? We never talk to like a criminal lawyer, you know, with what? Like we never talk to like a criminal lawyer, you know, criminal defense lawyer,

we've only talked to like very boring lawyers. You know, and so like criminal defense lawyers, I'm sure they have a reputation on the line. Because if they snatch a client in, they're literally their entire client list are technically alleged criminals. Okay, all right. So I feel like it'd be very difficult for them to turn their clients in.

Yeah. Okay. But I understand that general. Yeah. But I'm talking about this circle path, zeroer killer. Yeah. So I mean, I don't know. Maybe they were just trying to figure out if he's bad shit crazy first.

And so he knew his days were gone. He had just confessed to his lawyers. He's like, I'll just do my shit. So he drives to his friend's house and his friend was interviewed and he said he opened the door and John Wayne gays He was there so he and there was like place command and so he comes inside and he hugs his friend tightly And he says listen, I've been a bad boy And he's like, well, what did you do John? Like why are you freaking out and he goes? But I think I've killed 30 people.

Well, I don't know. Give her a take of you. And the friend is like, what? And so he's like, yeah. And he's like, anyways, I got to go. I got some shit to do today. And he just leaves. He just leaves the friend's house after just convincing.

And then he starts driving around. Again, he's still being surveillance to buy the police department. And the police said in statements, in written statements that as he's driving around, he's praying to a rosary. Like one of those crosses, thingies, and he's like praying while he's driving.

This is very confusing. And he would go into a gas station that he goes into a lot. And he knows the attendant there. And he would pump his gas and he'd go to the attendant and he'd say, listen, they're on to me. The attendant was like, what? I'm just working out again. I'm sorry, I just work here. And he's like, take this and he gives him a bag of weed. And he's like, I don't need it anymore. They're on to me. This is very confusing. What's going on? And he gets into his car and he leaves.

And immediately one of the police officers goes in and is like, hello, gas attendant. What did he say to you? I'm a police officer and he's like, uh, he gave me a bag of weed and told me his days were limited and I don't know what to do. And so the police were like, thank you so much for your help. And they leave. And so the police are thinking that this is very erratic behavior. Exactly what we're thinking. What is going onratic behavior exactly what we're thinking what is going on Right, so they're scared that he's gonna commit suicide and they don't want that because they want justice for the victims So they immediately arrest John Wayne Gacy for marijuana charges for giving the gas attendant marijuana Which is illegal right and so this after they arrest him they have their third search and

Now they know about the cross base. So they go into the cross base and they start digging. They were expecting one body, a Robert. The boy, the young 15 year old boy who worked at the pharmacy that started this entire investigation. They were expecting one body. They start digging. They realized that the remains that they just found were too old to be

Robert, too decayed. So they found one and they're like, okay, this is not right. Yes. And then they sent in more examiners under the cross space because what? And then the police distinctly remember standing outside and one of the examiners yelled out from the cross-base. I think it's full of kids. Oh my gosh. And for the next two, three weeks they will dig up 28 bodies. And Gacy's in jail. And he starts talking now. Okay. I mean it's too late. Like if you've got bodies under your house, I mean I don't know how you're gonna get out of that one. I just really don't Holy shit, I can't even imagine that 20 a body

Yeah, and so many of them are so decayed and then to try to piece them together and identify it There remains I mean, it just was a lot and then you're talking about a cross space and the smell of decaying bodies I'm sure that these people need a just heavy, heavy therapy. Sweet starts talking. And he's telling them, you know, I did do it. And he would talk about how I can't believe you guys found the cross space. You know, that is so dumb of me. I was actually thinking about it.

I was thinking about filling that cross space with concrete so that you guys wouldn't find it. But damn it, you guys got there first. We would say things like that. And they found 28 bodies. Some of them had plastic bags over their head. Some of them still had ropes around their neck. Some of them had things lodged into their rectum. And some of them still had racks inside their mouth because you didn't want leakage. They're like, okay, you're fucking done for it. You're going away for a very, very, very long time. And so finally, the trial starts.

And this trial is going to be just as big of a shit show as this entire case was. He starts trying to attempt the doctors, attempt to convince the doctors that he suffers from disassociative identity disorder. And the doctors are like, oh yeah, tell me about it. And so he's like, okay, so let me tell you about it. I got a lot of personalities, altars, you know, and they're like, oh yeah, tell me about it. Because I mean, these doctors, they know who they're dealing with.

It's not just a regular patient. These like, okay. So, one of my altars is this work of hall. these doctors, they know who they're dealing with. It's not just a regular patient. These are kinds. So one of my altars is this workaholic. And I just work, and I work, and I work, and I work, and I work. And then the other one, I'm like this, a really cool contractor. Yeah, I'm like really cool.

And I'm like a contractor, and I fix houses, and it's super cool. And then I have Pogo and Patches, which is my clown, altar, and I, yeah, they're cool. And then I'm a politician, is one of my altars. And then I'm also a policeman named Jack. Now, Jack, though, let me tell you about Jack. Jack is a bad one.

He's bad Jack. I call him bad Jack because he hates homosexuality. But I think he does it a lot. And the doctors are like, yeah, you don't have this associated identity disorder. Like, you sound like you're trying to convince us, but we fucking know that you don't. So this is really embarrassing for you and for me and for everyone in this room, because what are you doing? And so they're like, okay, uh, no.

And so then this lawyers are like, fuck, that was our plan. That was our plan. Now our plan is gone. And so they say, hey, hey, hey, this is what we're gonna do. You're gonna plead guilty. No, you're gonna plead not guilty. By reason of say it with me guys. In sanity. His entire legal team was trying to convince the jury during the extent of this trial that all 33 deaths Yeah, we're accidental. They were just like oopsies From erotic

Exficiation which erotic asphyxia means you know like BDSM, you know, like 50 sheets of gray, you just like chug people and like get off on it, and then it just goes too far. And then they accidentally lose their breath and they die, and this was all an accident. Wow. And the prosecutor, they really didn't even bring an evidence. They were just like, I mean, that's just highly improbable.

I mean, let's just look at the facts. Like all 33 times really bro. 33 fucking times bro. Yeah. And the jury took just two hours and they convicted him guilty on all 33 counts. This was by far the largest number of murders charges to one individual in US history and he received

capital punishment and so he's on death row and he's waiting to receive his lethal injection and he really didn't have a painless death he actually did some changes to the entire system and I'll get into it but while he's waiting in prison he starts really getting into painting. Now these paintings are really really gonna piss people off later So he starts painting a lot of things in prison later. They will get auctioned off some of these painting sold for as low as $200 some of them sold for as high as $20,000 fucking

Dollars and and the bittersweet part is some people bought it because it's John Wayne Gacy's a serial killer and it's I mean art is weird I don't really understand the art world that much it's can't could be a collectible etc. and some of them were bought to be displayed at like American history exhibitions and stuff and I'm like okay that's a note and then a lot of them were bought Either by families of the victims or to be donated to the families of the victims

So that they could burn him because I didn't want his work to be everlasting They don't want people to enjoy his work Yeah, yeah, yeah He's sitting in death row and he's like, I'm sick of this. I'm patting my laugh away and I don't like it. And so he ends up getting a bunch of law books and he ends up fighting and fighting and appealing and appealing and appealing and appealing and appealing

and appealing more and more and more. And finally, they're like, no, you're gonna die, okay? Like you're gonna die. Yeah. And so May 9th of 1994, yet is last meal, which was ironically a bucket of KFC fried chicken, a dozen fried shrimp, french fries, fresh strawberries, and a diet cook. He requested that. Yeah.

Now, where he was getting executed was a shit show outside. And it typically is with a lot of death penalties, typically with something of this much notoriety. You're going to have a lot of people who are there that are somehow affiliated with John Wingacy. Somehow, they know the victim or they know John himself, right? Yeah. But you're also going to have a lot of politics.

You're going to have a group of people, typically, with most famous executions that say, this is not OK. Capital punishment is not OK. There was anti-capital punishment protesters who held a candlelight vigil. Oh my God. And then there were just a big group of people that came and I think that group of people is like you and me. So typically I'm against capital

punishment because I don't trust our justice system to get it right every single time, right? But I would say that there are a lot of cases that we can just be a thousand percent certain such as confessing to the crime having 28 bodies under your house and being arrested for decades for sodomy and pedophilia I mean I can make like a couple exceptions to my I'm against capital punishment theory right and so a lot of people came out with posters that said no tears for the clown. And he ended up having some complications where the lethal injection didn't work right away. And so they had to fix him.

And typically with lethal injections, you have a viewing room. So people watch you get, you know, die. And they close the curtains for like 10 to 15 minutes because they were having difficulties. And so there was a lot of complaints that he died a painful death because they don't really know if he died a painful death or not. Like what happened in those 10 minutes that the curtains were closed? Like did he die a painful death or not? And the theory was, I don't think it matters because he died way less painfully than anyone of his victims. Yeah. And his final words were, kiss my ass. Where's final words were kiss my ass. Where's final words?

Yeah, but there were so many complaints though that Illinois ended up changing the type of lethal injection that they do, just so they didn't have another issue like John Wayne Gacy, where it was just 10 minutes of what the fork. Well, I would say that was a sign. Yeah, that was a nice little cute sign. And that is the story of the killer clown. I don't really have words. Like I said, it's just such a weird mind-boggling case.

It... You think that once you research one serial killer, and then another, and then another, you kind of have this general idea of, I feel like every serial killer is just this big bowl of mush, you just keep adding all the wrong ingredients and eventually it's gonna have a reaction, it's gonna explode, something's gonna happen, right?

But this one, I don't necessarily see that. I don't necessarily see the same elements I see in so many other cases. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This one's just weird. And even not just his childhood, but even in his adulthood, even in his process of, you know, all of these murders, he just had such a weird life compared to a lot of other serial killers. Yeah, I see what you mean. Yeah. This is some sick, sick stuff.

Yeah. And I think the one thing it really calls to question is, I mean, I don't really even know how to fix stuff in the world. I don't even know how to fix me or fix a broken light bulb. But a lot of this, I feel like she could have been avoided. There wasn't such a stigma around young men and just men in general coming forward with stuff like this. Was it more than 33?

Yeah, 33 is just the known cases. Okay, so there should be a lot more. Yeah. Wow. So I mean, it just doesn't make sense. It just does not make sense. It doesn't make sense how you could be arrested for something like sense. It doesn't make sense how he could be arrested for something That doesn't make sense how he could breach his parole and then they don't freaking know and then he gets arrested like two more time I mean I'm so angry

So let me know and there's no comments Let me know your thoughts though. I hope you guys enjoyed today's podcast It was dark go check out I bleach on red, because you probably do need to see some videos of kittens and little doggies running around. And I hope you guys enjoyed today's podcast. We'll be back next Wednesday to fill up your earholes with some more true crime. I'll see you guys next week. Bye.