Rotten Mango - #78: Isolated For 27 Years (Case of Christopher Knight)

Episode Date: July 4, 2021

In 27 years he only spoke one word. “Hi.” For decades he lived without a mirror - he had forgotten what he had looked like.  He had no friends, no family, no pets, no emotional attachments - those were all cut off the day he disappeared.  When he is finally arrested after 27 years - the questions remain. Why did a 20-year-old walk into the woods and decide to disappear? Was he running from something? Does he know something we don’t? And what happens to someone who has no social contact for 27 years? Full Source Note: Rottenmangopodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rambles. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it. Download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or pay to description starting at 12.99 per month. But I've been but a boom. It's a mini-sode. So this week's mini-sode, I'm

just going to drop you right in. This is an urban legend in a small town in Maine, little north pond. So they've got these beautiful lakes these beautiful mountains filled with trees. I mean just truly a natural oasis and they have this campfire. This is how I see it going down. Picture Boy Scout with me sitting around a campfire talking about some sh- They say gather around everyone grab your flashlights. Did you know in these very woods there's a man living in complete isolation. he watches you through the dark shadows of the tree. He just stalks you. Stairs that you don't even see him. You just maybe see his eyes moving, flickering, looking straight into your soul. And when he finds the perfect time, he breaks into your cabin. He breaks into your house and he starts taking small things.

Never anything big. Maybe you don't even realize that your house has been broken into. But it's too late. See, the Serven legend doesn't come from nowhere, right? The families with summer cabins near the North Little Pond, they were noticing some strange things. I mean, I feel like we've asked this question a million times before. What would you do if you were the worst, most evil burglar that ever existed, and you could break into someone's house and steal one thing, one item, it's not a high value item, it has to be an item that's gonna drive the homeowner insane. Like, how is this missing?

I think they're all taking socks. You think it's socks? You think we're getting broken into every time I do the laundry and someone's just taking out one sock. That one good sock too. Like we have so many cheap socks, those never go missing. It's always the nice sock.

And we talked about it maybe like prescription eyeglasses. That's terrifying. You know, what else is there? Well, this is exactly what was happening in Maine in this small town. People's cabins were being broken into, and there were instances, this is how I see it going down, right?

Imagine this. Hey, John, where's our flashlight? And you go outside, but it's gone. Oh, well, I'm sure one of the kids misplaced it. Next door in another house. Hey, babe, I told you to put the stakes in the freezer. They're not in the freezer. No, I just checked.

They're not in the freezer. Well, where could they be? We literally just bought them. That doesn't make sense. Do you grow up the stakes from the freezer frozen meat from our freezer? That's strange. Another family comes home one day and they have bunk beds for their kids. Where's the bed?

No, one of the mattresses. Just one of the mattresses is missing. They better know this is really awkward, but have you seen my Playboy magazine? Just like one magazine. Nothing else is missing, but my Playboy magazine. Have you seen it? Sometimes it was a book, magazines, national geographic magazines. Listen, that's nothing.

There was another couple who said, hey, I had that mattress stolen from me, but we also had a backpack stolen. We start freaking out, because that's where we are hiding our passport. It's all of our, you out because that's where we are hiding our passports All of our you know, that's like our emergency go kit. We need our passports take that backpack So we start freaking out they took our passports. This is identity that this is like a criminal organization But so they think somebody took it

I mean, it's missing the backpack with the power sports is completely missing They ask all of their friends and family. It's gone But they they keep looking in that closet. They notice that someone, the thief, had left neatly. All of their passports just tucked into the side of the closet. But the backpack that it was in is missing. What the fork is that about? Another family comes home.

They try turning on the TV. The damn remote isn't working. Okay, that's weird. Is it hot in here? Is it just me? Let's turn on the fan. They get the remote. The remote isn't working. Hey, did you notice our clock on the wall isn't moving? What's going on with that? So they check everything and every single battery

in the house had been taken from every single remote, from anything that requires batteries, those AA batteries, those AAA batteries, we're stolen! So what do you do? I mean, you search the rest of the house, you notice, well my laptop's here, my computer's here, my TV's here, this person straight up just stole all of the batteries in the house and vanished. That's it! Bizarre. So slowly this urban legend starts taking, taking storm, this entire town by storm.

They called the thief the mountain man at first, then it was a hungry man, then he became known as the Hermit. That's just what they called him, the Hermit. It became so big that whenever people filed police reports for a break in, the police had no idea who this person was. They wrote for the first name, Hermit. The last name, Hermit. So who do you think this guy is?

There's so many different theories. Is he some sort of kleptomaniac neighbor, like some neighbor who just loves the thrill of stealing bulls? They never steal any valuables. I mean, what is that about? Is that what's going on? Maybe this is some sort of like gang initiation. You've got to break into a house

and steal something like a box of cereal. Maybe that's what it is. Whoever it was, there was only one thing that this town of Maine knew. It was that this has been happening for decades, over 25 years. And never got caught. Never got caught.

Who breaks into a house to steal some Oreos and some batteries? Because burglarizing is a felony. Like this is a felony risk that you're taking. And why are they doing it to the same little town for over 25 years? And until you was caught. Until you was caught and an absolute storm just erupts. Okay, so there's a really good documentary called The Hermit and The Last True Hermit.

It goes by both. But more importantly, there is this book called The Stranger in the Woods by a reporter by the name of Michael Finkel. I know exactly what you're thinking. I was thinking that too. I was like, wait, why does his name sound so familiar? Are you thinking that? Yes.

It's because he was involved in a crime, not as a journalist. Okay, I'm going to move your brain. Michael Finkel. Michael Finkel. Michael Finkel. So there was a man by the name of Christian Longo. He was on the FBI's top 10 most wanted because he was accused of murdering his wife and children.

He goes on the run, he's a fugitive, and guess what he tells people, nice to meet you. I'm Michael Finkl and I'm a reporter for the New York Times. Yes. Eventually, Michael Finkl gets word of this, the real Michael Finkl and he wants to reach out to this person like, why are you stealing my identity? Yes. Did you kill your wife and kids? So they, I mean, he reports on this, he does a whole book on it, Brad Pitt buys it, turns it into a movie called True Story with James Franco, Jonah Hill, Felicity Jones.

And that's a total separate story from today's story. Yes. But I'm just, I know that name was gonna ring a bell, right? He worked with National Geographic. I mean, this reporter, the real Michael Finkel, is really, really cool. He wrote a book called The Stranger in the Woods. Also has a really good GQ article on this case. He did nine separate prison interviews for this book, interviewed practically the whole town, that whole little town in Maine, but a lot of work into it. And you can tell it because there's so many details on how everything gets done. Obviously we're not going to go that deep dive, but

I mean this is such a fascinating case and I know that you guys love the deep dives. This is probably the best way to get it is to read The Stranger in the Woods by Michael Finkl. So let's get into the crime. Now solitary confinement, that's going to be a topic today. There are a ton of studies that show that solitary confinement is probably just as traumatizing and damaging to a brain as, let's say, blunt force trauma to the head. Like it's that devastating. Within days, even the most strong-minded people can start experiencing psychosis. I feel like we know solitary confinement or just being isolated through prisons.

That's what you hear about it. I mean, this is like the most extreme form of punishment that American prisons will give you. And it works. I mean, it's practically torture. People will start doing anything. People will start losing their eyesight because they can't see far. They're just in this tiny little room.

They see the same things over and over again. They're inmates. When they're in solitary confinement, they start laying on the ground, just so that they can stick one eyeball close to that tiny crack underneath that door because the biggest excitement, the most stimulation that they get, the evidence that they are alive in the real world is someone walking by. They don't even see the person. They don't get to talk to the person just to see that foot walk by.

There's inmates that report, you know, a wasp will fly into their cell somehow. Yeah, prison break. They'll feed it. They'll start talking to this wasp, treating it like a pet. It's a freaking wasp. It's not even a bumblebee. So when you're in solitary confinement, the cells are very far apart. You really can't hear each other. It's not like a normal, gen-pop prison cell where you can talk to each other. So they'll start screaming through the little drain pipes, trying to get any sort of interaction with people,

but they can barely talk because their vocal cords are that weak. So within an hour, they completely lose their voice. Why are they so weak? Because they don't talk. Oh, seriously, if you don't. When you're in solitary confinement. So you can clearly lose your voice. you lose the ability to talk. Yeah, I mean you can still talk, but it put so much strain

People would rather I mean it's been reported by people who have actually been in solitary confinement They would rather have the worst inmate the worst fellow prisoner the most abusive the most intimidating Evil person in the room with them, rather than being alone. And the feeling is because you start having this sinking feeling that you don't exist. Like nothing makes sense. What even is life? Am I even real?

Like how do I know I'm not in this like brain fog? Am I losing my mind? So they start doing things such as rubbing feces on the walls, banging their heads, just to feel something hurting themselves, and a lot of the times attempting to take their own lives. And yeah, we're talking about the case where this might be the very last true hermit in the world. That's what this case is known for. I know that there is a lot of different groups of people that may live in islands that haven't been colonized, right? That's a little bit different because they're not living in a solitary confinement. Like they're not living in solitude. Or you have religious people who will go and live a life of solitude, but a lot of the times they are with fellow...

Members. Fellow members. But this guy might be the last one. Now, the town of Maine took this in various ways. Some of the victims were straight up pissed. Their kids were terrified. This is their safe place. This is the place that they come to

in the summers to get some peace of mind. I mean, yeah, nothing valuable was taken. But how about what I feel? I feel violated. How do I know that he's not armed and dangerous? We don't even know this guy. Other victims, they just kind of got used to it. They felt like he was harmless.

They started this cute little idea where they would hang some paper and pens on the front door. And they would write grocery list. Just tell us what you need and we'll leave it out on the porch next time. But he never wrote anything. Overall, most of them started doing what they called hermit proofing, installing security cameras, alarms, cameras. Just, it was a lot of work, right? The town wanted to catch the sky. So we're talking about Terry Cruz, the police officer.

Oh no, Terry Hughes. Terry Cruz is the actor. Terry Hughes, the police officer. He made it his life mission to catch the hermit. Everyone kept complaining to him, come on officer Terry, what the fork are you doing? You busy eating donuts, catch the hermit. It's just one dude. It's not even a gang, right? Is it a urban legend? What's going on? So he calls in help from two different county sheriff's office. State police. He even started talking to border patrol. What do you guys think I

should do? The normal stuff isn't working. We tried fingerprinting, we tried doing this, we tried telling the community to get some security systems, nothing is working. He's breaking into homes at alarming rates. Border Patrol gives him some highly sensitive accurate sensors. And says here, this should help. So he starts placing them at a center called Pine Tree Kitchen, which is known to be the Hermits Costco. He'll just go in there and take tubs of food, just straight up like he's grocery shopping. So he sets up these alarms behind the little ice cream machine, behind the drink fountain, and the alarm sensors would be in

Terry's house so he gets real-time alerts. But he's still terrified. What if I don't get there in time? What if I get there and this Hermit goes on the run? What if he sees my car lights? So he starts practicing this rehearsal driving from his house this police officer driving from his house to pine tree center Which is a place for disabled children and adults. It's like a summer camp, right? So he drive there he did his car halfway run the rest of the way no flashlights in the dark Just practicing this. I'm gonna get this guy. I mean what kind of dude? Just breaks into a summer camp for disabled people and steals all their food?

That doesn't make sense. Yeah, it's food, but it's the principal. It's the law. He waits for his chance. Two weeks later, one in the morning. Terry, I keep wanting to say Terry Cruz. Terry Hughes is in bed with his wife. The alarm goes off.

He's got a go back ready. Grabbs it, runs into his truck, drives halfway there, abandons the truck, runs on foot. He gets there and he's looking through the windows. Sure enough, after 20 years, he spots the hermit. Rummaging through the freezer of pine tree camp. An officer Terry just kind of stops in his tracks. He's always pictured a mountain man.

That's what the urban legend is. He's like this creepy dude with a crazy beard, crazy hair, and he's just smelly, waiting to sneak into your house. Like, that's why kids are terrified. But the guy that he's looking at, he's got this freshly shaven face. He's wearing glasses. Looked almost nerdy.

Dare I say nerdy. Very, he looks not threatening. Looked super clean. Looked like he just got out of a five seasons. Four seasons. Four seasons. I'm doing too much. This is not the type of guy that you would expect

to live in the woods. Not even in like a van in the woods. What's going on right now? So he waits for this man to exit the facility and start screaming, get on the ground what's going on right now? So he waits for this man to exit the facility and start screaming get on the ground get on the ground now! And he tackles him. He calls for a backup. They come the other officers help handcuff this man. He doesn't put up a fight at all. They bring him back into the facility. They call up the directors of this facility. I mean this is a small town. They're just they're trying to get the word out. And we know it was obvious that he

had committed a crime. There were already stolen goods inside of his pocket inside of his backpack He was rummaging through the freezer. This is the hermit So like give me your ID. We want your identification. We want to know who is this man finally? So he gives them their wallet and it's just no ID nothing no credit card No debit card no bank, just molded money. Close to $400 in moldy money. What in the world? Like, that doesn't make sense, what's going on? Hello? Can you please answer us?

I like, okay, well this, this hermit legend, my ass. Like, the urban legend is fake. That's what the cops are thinking. Is he talking at all? No. They're all just standing around him. Like, come on say something and they're like this is the urban legend is fake. This just proves it. Everything that this town has been talking about for the past two decades is fake. This is a man who probably lives in a neighboring town or maybe comes into our town stays in a motel to burglarize the shit out of

a community. You don't even smell dude. Like that's what they're telling him. Like, what is going on? This isn't the hermit. He's wearing nice clothes, blue jeans with a brown belt. He's got an LLB backpack on. Just looks like a normal guy. Except not talking. Yeah. So, Officer Diane, she decides, okay, let's clear the room.

Maybe we're overwhelming this guy. Like, I just want to get some answers. She just, she kicks out of her mouth and she's sitting with him. She has been on this case for the past 18 years. It's personal. She's curious. She wants answers.

What's your name? Christopher, Thomas, Knight. What's your address? What does this sound so fake to me? This is real name. Okay. That's the name I will give. This really feels like Batman or something.

Yeah. What's your address? None. Okay, then where do you get your mail? Your tax returns? Disability checks? Like, do you get any of that? No.

Okay, where do you live? The woods. How long? Uh, decades. So she's getting a little bit anxious. She's like, be more specific. I mean, since when? What is a decade to 10 years?

Just 10 years? How many years? And the response that she gets back is weird. He looks at her and says, what year was Chernobyl nuclear plant disaster? So she's thinking to herself, like, what the work? Who is this guy? Like, is he some sort of environmentalist

that's pissed off at the nuclear disaster? Does he have the nuclear codes? Like, this is very alarming of an answer. And so she Googles it on her phone. It was 1986, 27 years ago. Oh, OK, then I've been in the woods for 27 years. How old are you now? So she starts doing the math, realizes that this man entered the woods almost freshly out of high school, at 20 years old.

And now there is a 47 year old man in front of her who has spent more than half of his life in the woods. What? Okay, so his life in the woods. What? Okay, so you were in the woods. Why? Why? You don't... How do you eat? You're just breaking into here and getting food from this place?

Where's the money in your wallet from then? You know, she's just trying to get these plod holes. I mean, it's hard to believe such a statement, so she's trying to figure out, can I catch him in the lie? That's what police officers are trying to do. So how did you get the money then? Well, I gathered it over the years. A few bills here, a few bills there.

I mean, I never really took more than like $5 every time I broke into a place. Why did you even take the money? I mean, it's more of a safety net. So in case you had to walk out in town and buy something, he needed a safety net. But in reality, he has never spent a dime in the past 27 years, not one penny with spent. So this causes the question, okay, if you took $5 every time you broke in somewhere, how

many places did you break into? And he's just sitting there straight up honest, about 40 times a year. For the past 27 years, she does the math. That's 1,080 break ins. That's 1,080 felonies. This is the biggest burglary bust in main history. I mean, yeah, all he did take was some groceries, some hot dogs, some frozen steaks. How does he break in and get out so easily?

That's what I want to know. So they're like, what is going on? They run a background check. This man really is Christopher Knight. No criminal record, no arrests, no warrants, absolutely nothing. From the outside, if you were just a regular police officer, pulled him over in a traffic stop, he looks like a well-obiting citizen. And he just admitted to one of the biggest burglary cases

in Maine history. The only thing that he had that belonged to him and that he didn't steal were his eyeglasses. And he had it after 27 years? Yeah, so he's pretty impressive. Exactly, so what you're thinking when I'm thinking, it's like who is this guy? Why is he in the woods and see some sort of like conspiracy

theorists? What's going on? Is he a spiritual person? Was he trying to find himself in the woods? I just don't understand 27 years. So Christopher Knight's childhood is very very normal. He grew up in a rural town in Maine. For every person, there were two cows in this town So it's relatively rural. And Chris was the youngest of five children. They lived that quintessential country life They would cut their own lungs because they had to put it in their fireplace at home, you know pitch their own berries and fruit. They fixed their own tractors. I mean they were really

Resourceful. That is what I will say about the night family and they were all really freaking smart So smart. I mean the parents valued education. They were considered bookworms all of them all they did was just read read read read read read read people Called them a family of brain yaks which is like a really high compliment I feel like every family has like that one smart person and then everybody else is an idiot. I'm the All family so you're like I've seen some families where there's not So the whole family was just a family of Brainiacs. And some of this stuff really helped prep Christopher for his future. The family built their own greenhouse for plants.

They fixed scrap metal, very resourceful people. As a unit though, they were incredibly isolated. I mean, yeah, they had a ton of land. This is a rural area, but they were obsessed with privacy. So their closest neighbor told Michael Finkl, I have lived next to them for 14 years. I am the closest neighbor to them in distance. I have yet, I mean, they've got like five kids, you know?

I have yet to say hello to any member of that family. I don't even see them. I don't even know that they exist most of the time. They're so private. So Chris grew up just super shy, nerdy. According to all the classmates that were interviewed by Michael, there was a speculation that he wasn't allowed to show emotions growing up. There was no evidence of any abuse, dramatic incidents, sexual abuse. There was nothing in his life that could prep you for, oh, he hates society,

like he's gonna leave. I mean, the parents were a little bit strict, they had some strange rules like no junk food. So, uh, this caused them to come up with some very, very creative master plans. The night kids, they would call up their cousins. They'd say, hey, come to my bedroom and I'm gonna lower down a hook. The cousins would wait with a bag filled with just like 7-11 stuff I'm assuming, just sodas, junk food, Doritos, Cheetos, and the kids would hook it onto that bag, just fish it up into their bedroom. I mean, these poor kids were never allowed to even drink a soda in their entire life. Not even when they went out to eat, but through all of this, you're thinking, well, maybe

Christopher just loves nature. He just wants to be in the woods. His dream in life was to become a computer technician Like he really wasn't the type that hated technology. He didn't hate society He just wanted to go off and do his own thing. It just kind of happened after high school He buys a new car loved it. This is like, you know, he's one of those typical 19 year old kids Freakin loves that car to death. He gets a nice job. But one day 19 year old kids freaking loves that car to death he gets a nice job but one day he picks up his last check goes into his car without telling his family without telling his co-workers nobody knows anything and he starts driving 20 years old not really thinking what's going on just drives drives drives he ends up in

Florida from Maine he ends up in Florida so he's looking around like how did I get to Florida gets back into the car. OK, never mind. I don't really like Florida. Start driving back up north. The radio's playing. Everything on the radio is just talking about the recent Chernobyl nuclear disaster.

That's all over the news. Gets back to Maine. Drives by the family house one more time. But instead of stopping, he just keeps driving. He keeps driving into the wooded area in Maine and drove as far into nature that he could with his car until he ran out of gas. He had no preparation. He just had a tent in the trunk.

He didn't even have a backpack. He didn't have a compass. He had nothing, just a tent. He always kept in his trunk. Gets out, leaves the keys with the car, grabs his tent, and just starts wandering in the woods. So when Michael Fingal asked him, why did you leave? Like, why did you do that that day?

He said, it's still a mystery. I can't explain my actions. I had no plans when I left. I wasn't thinking of anything. I just did it. Wow. So he sets up camp, right? He could hunt. He was good at hunting, but he didn't bring a gun.

He could fish, but he didn't bring a fishing hook or a fishing line or anything. And Maine really is not the place to have vegetables. You just don't pick fresh berries. It's just not that type of place, not that type of vegetation. So he starts eating roadkill. To see eating roadkill, and most of the time it was raw. Then he would start sneaking into people's gardens because the hunger was so overwhelming and he would just

pick little carrots, little green onions from the garden and munch on those and he could have easily stayed like this and told some family, you know, you're thinking, well Christopher, why don't you just go back home and prep for this? Like, have a couple months where you think of how you're going to do this. Bring some fishing lines. Yeah, there's TV shows you can go on there and win some money. Yeah, but his whole thing was... Survival, or is that what it's called? Yeah, survivor.

Yeah. And so his whole thing was either you're hidden or you're not. Either you're hidden or you're not. For him to even tell his family about his plan is that he's not hidden. He's connected to the world still. So he wants to be hidden. He wanted to be hidden.

So he does have a goal. He does have a mission. But why does he want to be hidden? That's a big question. Only he knows, and he hasn't told anyone. Wow. So he has a couple different campsites, but eventually for the greater part of 20 plus years,

he has one main campsite, his house. And oddly, it was only a three minute walk from the nearest cabin if you took a shortcut. So this is, it's, it's strange because it's not. What do you mean he has a house? He starts building a little tent. Oh, he built something. Yeah, that he stayed in for over 20 years. And you're crazy. I'm going to give you the low down on this place. It was on private property. It wasn't even on public property. He gets his campsite ready. There's these huge rocks. That's why he chose it all around this little area. Some of these rocks, these boulders, were bigger than the size of cars. So this is, it's hard to even get to his campsite. You've got to be climbing over these like slimy

boulders. You slip, you fall, you break your ankle, you're dead. You're not dead, but you get the idea. So it's just not a place to hike. It's not where people are just gonna wander off. There's moss all over the place. There's twigs. And if you wander anywhere near his campsite, he would know because he would hear you. Cause the twigs would break.

There's poison ivy everywhere, thorns, and summer, the mosquitoes get so bad. The bugs, the flies would get so bad that if you were to open your mouth You're probably gonna eat a bug How does he live in a Farm in like that so he's got to make this little tent the perfect place I mean everyone in town was looking for Christopher the hermit, but they knew they could not find him

It doesn't matter if you have the best tracker the best hunter the best search and rescue team He never left a trace. He never left a trace. He never left a footstep. He never even broke a twig to indicate someone stepped on this twig. Wow. And he could do it all in the dark eventually. Without even the moonlight. He knew exactly where to step.

I mean, he truly became one with nature. Later, he would lead the police to the campsite, and they knew that this guy was the real deal. Like, his story was real. He lived here because the way that they saw him in the zone just walking through the woods, not one twig snapped. It was like he was in a trance. So Christopher created this flooring, right?

Because that's the most important. I'm literally gonna build it like an architect for you. And Michael Fingle goes in depth on how this was done. He had this flooring that was made out of what he called bricks, which were stacks of magazines that he had already read, and he had bundled them together, put them all over the ground, so that if it were to rain, there's a place for the water to drain. He put a little carpet over the magazines.

The walls of the tent were made out of tarp, garbage bags that he stole, and the house itself was 12 by 10 feet long. I mean this is a pretty extensive tent right? You had a kitchen, a little sitting area, and a bedroom. The kitchen, he had these little camp stoves, he stole propane tanks from people's grills. I mean it became such a thing that in Maine, if you were to grill in the summer, it's just a list. Oh the hermit probably took our propane tank like we got to buy one at the start of summer Because he took our propane tank He had cooking supplies a frying pan a cast iron frying pan

He got he had a mug a paper towel strainer's pots. I mean this is kind of bizarre No in his bedroom. He had a twin-sized mattress on a metal bed frame I he stole a whole bed, I'm assuming. He stole a whole last metal bed and dragged it to his tent site somehow. He had a dormat, like one of those welcome home dormats. At the front of his tent. He's really like animal crossing this. He can't be. The animal crossing.

His bed was comfortable. Things like that when the police found it, he had Tommy Hilfiger pillowcases on his real pillows, multiples leaving bags, blankets, a nightstand with all of his favorite books that he had stolen. He even had a little grooming section, a razor, detergents for his clothes, soap, shampoo, toilet paper, right next to hand sanitizer, toothbrush, toothpaste, everything. He had a system that he collected rainwater in these 30 gallon garbage cans. He would shower with it, drink with it, clean with it, and when it turned green, he would still drink it by boiling it with tea bags that he stole.

He was drinking tea. This guy was drinking tea. So when the water turns green, you just got to boil it with tea bags. Yes. Is that a term in there? Like, moss tea? Yeah. No, it's fascinating about this is that the police showed him a picture of himself, a

yearbook picture, just so they could confirm that this is the real man, right? And he stared at it for just so long, just staring deep into that picture and they're like, why it is going on? Why is he being so weird? It's because he had no mirror. For the past 27 years, he forgot what he looked like. He didn't see himself and he told them that sometimes he would see like a blurry reflection in the water, but that was it. Now, he didn't just steal a mirror, huh?

No. And he said that life. I mean, life is fascinating for this guy. So not once did he go to a doctor in 27 years. He never broke a bone. He said that he had a pretty bad fall once where he hurt his arm. Didn't break. Couldn't do much for a month. Like, couldn't even pick up a spoon.

But that was it. Never got sick. And he claims it's because he didn't have human contact. So you know, I mean, we're going through it right now, or maybe with the common cold, you get it from another human, typically. He let bruises and cuts just heal on their own. The whole time, 27 years, he said that he never talked to himself. Never wanted to listen to the sound of his voice, never really hummed, never saying, he only

said one word in 27 years. He was out hiking, and he comes across another hiker on the trail. So, he's thinking to himself, okay, this is weird if I don't say hi. So he says, hi, that's it. 27 years. One, hi, that's it. Crazy. Never talk to himself, never saying, I mean, this is a great thing. For some odd reason, I find it interesting. But I mean, I feel like I would talk to myself or sing. Oh, yeah, you would. I know you would. Or I feel like after a day, myself or sing. Oh, yeah, you would I know you were I feel like after a day. I'd be like does this thing still work? Hello?

But I I yeah, I don't know I wonder how long I will ask I thought you were gonna say that's my dream And I'm like you are marrying the wrong person you would be the absolute worst match in history He never lit a fire in absolute worst match in history. That's your dream. He never lit a fire in 27 years because he was scared that the smoke would lead people to him. So main winters are no joke. But what do you mean? He has a little grill, no?

I mean, it's one of those, like, our propane gas grills. But it's not a fire, because there's no smoke with these grills. So you could only cook food, but he can't really use that as warmth. Never had a fire and main winters or no joke, there's massive snowfall. I mean, there's ice, there's hail, there's everything you could easily freeze to death in these woods.

But never. When he needs food, he would do this thing where he'd go out in the middle of the night. He would choose days that the moonlight was weak. He didn't want a full moon. He wanted it to be as dark as possible because he could travel in the pitch darkness, but the people who might chase him into the woods, they can't. They would lose him. Now he stated to Michael Fingl that he absolutely hated breaking into people's houses, but I guess at the time he felt like there was no choice. He's got to gather these supplies for the winter.

During the winter months, it was freezing so much that he would barely leave his tent. So he's got a prep for essentially a hibernation, got a stock up on food for months, for the whole winter months. So his entire summer and spring months were just him prepping for food for the winter months. And the winter months were insane. You would think, oh, well, maybe at night, you just sleep it off, right? That's what Michael Fingo was asking is out what you did during these winter months, because people don't believe that you can survive something like this. And he stated that if you sleep during this, you might not make it out alive.

So he would actually sleep really early at night, wake up at 2 in the morning, that's when it gets the coldest, and he would just pace around the tent to get his blood pumping. That's crazy. Is that not insane? I mean, this sounds like the survivor show that- It sounds like something that you would have to be forced to do.

Like, the food wasn't really nutritious either, so he's not getting the most fit, you know, fresh fish, fresh garden vegetation. He was just eating people's pantry goods like mac and cheese Spices chocolate bars, tator tots baked beans, graham crackers, Mountain Dew, that's what he ate for 27 years He said that he didn't even care. You have to have self-control When you do stuff like this you can't be picky about what you eat Even the police reports about these break ins said that there was some unusual neatness about this place So if he were to break in and he unhooks an entire door, because these are cabins, this is a small town in Maine,

you're not talking about these massive fortresses, he would unscrew a door to break in and he would take the time to screw the door completely back before leaving. Yeah, so that's my question. Like what is his feeling towards breaking in? He doesn't want to break in. But he has no choice. But he will break in so. And he's it so so when he breaks him, but he doesn't take any valuables

No, what does he he only takes what like what's his batteries? Oh It's the one valuables that he would essentially steal our compasses and watches and randomly game boys The little toys right the video game things But he said that he would wait until make sure that they weren't valued. Like if you saw a Rolex laying around, he would never take it. Uh-huh. It had to be like one of those really just whatever watches. To tell time. Just completely dinged up just so he can tell time. And Game Boy is to kill time. Yes, to kill time.

But he would make sure that they were like additions old. Like they just look dusty. It didn't look like the kids played with them. They're just in the storage. So he would take it. Cause it's not the kids new in here. So he has like morals. Yeah, it's confusing. Like he's got morals, but he doesn't have morals.

So his thing is I don't want to cause any what trauma or any like, I mean, he is causing trauma. Cause he is breaking into people's houses. But I think his thing was I don't want to ruin their lives. Yeah. I just need to take what I should. I see. Which if you don't consider in the fact of like,

I mean, this is one of my biggest fears is a home invasion. Yeah. Because that's peace of mind being completely destroyed. If you factor that out, technically he is harmless. Mm-hmm. He's taken supplies that really don't matter much. Right, right, right. I mean, it's fascinating.

He loved reading, so he would steal a ton of books. Any book that he could get his hand on. Science, fiction, spy novels, military books, history books, text books. That's what he did in his free time, which is read, read, read. That's it. He loved it so much. Now, it's fascinating as for someone who loved reading books, he did not consider this a spiritual awakening.

He didn't want to document it. You know how sometimes authors will go into the woods and they'll write about their solitude. I'll be like, this is what I learned day one of being alone at the woods. Day two of being alone in the woods, right? He never talked to himself, never went out there to find himself, never thought about writing in the journal, never thought about documenting any of it. Most of the time he stated, I did nothing. I didn't do anything, I didn't think of anything, and he stated that in 27 years, he was never bored.

What? It's going on. I don't understand. I think this makes it crazier because in, I mean, he was caught recently, we want to say like 2012, right? The fact that he was not bored, I mean, even in 2012, we were all so attached to our phones. Yeah. But he said, nope, not bored. Some strange things to consider. He had never been on a date before he left.

So we can assume he's never had like his first case or anything. I mean, this man had commitment. See, what's also interesting is when you're reading, on a date before he left. So we can assume he's never had like his first case or anything. I mean, this man had commitment. See, what's also interesting is when you're reading, you're taken into this world, right? Yes. So, you know, you got that, you're, so he's learning all these different feelings

and experiences, emotions, but he doesn't try to experience it himself. He doesn't get, like, you know, oh, I wish I can do this. I wish I can go here. I can, I can try this. He doesn't get that. He know, oh, I wish I can do this. I wish I can go here. I can try this. He doesn't get that. He, Michael Fingal asked him that. Like, did you at any point were like, am I missing out on something, especially if you're reading books where people are talking about their lives, like, they're starting families in this book. You never thought to yourself, maybe I want to start a family or do something. So if Michael Fingal asked the same question as me. Oh, yeah, you're a good reporter.

So Michael Finko asked the same question as me. Oh yeah, you're a good reporter. So Christopher told him. I mean, I didn't even venture, like he's saying he didn't even venture out of his tent for a night. Because if he wanted to travel, he would just read a book. He would travel through the book. Yeah, I mean, my grandma says the same thing. If you wanted to have a conversation or experience love, he could do it through the book.

He's kind of cool. He's kind of cool. He's kind of cool. I mean, it seems like the way that he says these things, Christopher didn't really like communicating with people. He didn't like conversations. He didn't really like building these relationships. I think it gave him a great deal of anxiety. That's just my speculation.

It gave him a lot of social anxiety, probably stress. And so he's like, why do I need to do any of that? I don't even enjoy it. Imagine you're just perpetually stuck on an elevator and you can only engage in small talk. I'm sure that's what he felt like. Maybe that could be something then because maybe he has some anxieties. He's an introvert. He doesn't like to engage conversation and as the time goes by it just gets greater and greater. And he's bigger. Yeah so he at this point He's like I don't want to interact with any human being at this point at any cost

So I can just I'll just stuck in my little tent and that's it even animals Cuz Michael Finkle asked did you ever think about getting a pet you know, you're telling me you saw some bunnies hopping around There's gonna be like a stray dog Domesticated wolf. Why don't you you're're probably bored. I mean, it's 27 years, right? And he said that he didn't want to be in a position where food was scarce and he had a choice Do I eat my pet or not? So he decided no pets so he had no emotional attachment And that's when he says will I had a pet mushroom? It was a mushroom that he cared about He cared so much about this mushroom

that he kept asking the police and Michael Finkel how's the mushroom doing. Like, he genuinely cared about this mushroom. This mushroom was his emotional attachment. Fascinating. What's even more fascinating is that three people knew about his campsite before he was caught. Three people.

A grandpa, his son, and his grandson decide that they're going to go fishing. So they go to the little pond. And by the way, little pond is a very... not a great description. It's a really big lake, I assume. So they go to the little pond and they start fishing and they start hearing some noises. And they're looking around, they're talking.

Christopher hears them from his campsite. They're alarmingly close. People haven't been this close. So he decides, I gotta go investigate. It's better than them finding my house. I gotta go out and maybe bump into them, act like I'm a hiker. So he walks out of his tent, starts kind of getting closer, trying to be stealthy. And they turn around, and before he can duck, they make eye contact.

So he straightens himself up and they wave high at him. They say, hey. Now Christopher looks scared. So the family, they're like showing them, oh, it's like a fishing hook, it's not like a rifle or anything. Like we're not hunting, we're fishing. He takes out his hands from his pockets and waves them too to show, I don't have weapons either.

And it seemed like immediately the grandpa of the group knew who this was. That is the North pond hermit. The story is true. The urban legend is true. Wait, how does he know? He just had a feeling and how was this story told? Oh, wait, right. So it hits him in the gut and he looks at Christopher.

And I think maybe Christopher was catching on to this Because he decides what can I do to try to save this and he bows he bows at him and the family bows back and they walk away No, I told his son and told his grandson listen We have to leave him alone. He's not hurting anyone, he's here for a reason, he just doesn't want to deal with people. This guy needs to be left unbothered, they make a pact, they don't tell anyone that they saw the North pond hermit, nobody would turn him in. The family did tell Michael Fingal that it was really hard to try and not to go back, not that they wanted to tell the police, but they wanted to go back and like, hear him

out, I mean this is a crazy story, it's been decades. What have you been doing? Have you been here for decades? But they respected his face. They never went back. They came forward after he was arrested. Wow. And even then, the grandpa of the group, he stated, he told the press, if I had a million dollars, I would buy the biggest plot of land and give it to this man so that he could just live the way he wanted. That's just all he wanted to live in quiet in peace away from the rest of the world. That's it.

You know what's interesting is I feel like there are a lot of people who want to live that kind of life. Yes, I feel like, come on, we gotta think about it at least once a week, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the problem is obviously how do you survive? How do you feed yourself? So I feel like he could have I mean obviously he left really young right high school but if he was a little bit more well-rounded in society he could have find some ways to make it work somehow get a land get a small little land and kind of feed them

himself you know what I mean? Buy a plot of land, go off grid. Instead of breaking into everybody's house. I think that's why people had a problem. It's almost like you have so much sympathy because I mean who hasn't thought about it, who hasn't thought about like, oh, how would life be without all of this technology? So it's weird. They arrest the guy for burglary and theft and his first night spent indoors for the past 27 years would be in prison. And that is when the show began.

Reporters, journalists, authors, poets, women who would write letters wanting to marry the hermit without knowing anything about him, you know? Because love is love, love is strange. People offer to let him live on their property. They're like, I've got so many acres. Just come live in my house I'll give you my whole house. Just live in my house. Kick me out. Evict me. People wanted to pay his bill They wanted to raise money for him. It was wild teams of documentary people were just coming up knocking on the jail doors Like we want a documentary and there were so many questions. Who is this guy? People start talking. I bet he saw some aliens. I bet he knows some shit.

I bet the CIA was after him, and they're going to try to cover for this and just say he's a hermit now. Oh, but he knows something. You think he's running from the government? A foreign government? Oh, maybe he knows. Maybe he knows something that we don't know. Maybe he knows that there's gonna be an apocalypse,

and he's getting a head start. Maybe all of the actual civilized cities are gonna fall. Maybe we're gonna get bombed, and so he's just out in the woods. All of this is going outside of prison, and according to prison interviews with Michael Finkel, he said that Christian Knight was absolutely miserable in prison. He hated it, felt anxious, nervous, tired, but at the same time, Christopher does claim that he deserved to be in prison. He hated it, felt anxious, nervous, tired, but at the same time Christopher does claim

that he deserved to be in jail. He wanted the appropriate punishment. He didn't want anyone to go easy on him because he did hurt a lot of people. He stopped shaving, he didn't eat as much. It just never, this is a direct quote. More damage has been done to my sanity in jail in the matter of months than years and decades in the woods.

So Michael Finkel gets intrigued by this. He flies from Montana to Maine and starts seeing him in jail. And it's almost like Christopher had to push the words out of his mouth. Christopher also never did the things that you would expect to quote unquote normal person to do. He never tried to fill the silence. The silence would get so uncomfortable at these visits that Michael Finkle wanted to prove to Christopher like I can be silent too, but it was just so hard. Like you can't out silence Christopher. I love that. I just I love this. He didn't like looking at people's faces. He didn't do social cues really.

He would just say whatever was on his mind and every sentence, it looked like he had thought about it before he said it. So there was a bluntness to it. So for example, Michael was like, oh, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I've got a son named Beckett and Chris is like, ah! Terrible. Why did you name him that? He's gonna hate you when he gets older. No smile, no joking, just straight face. And And so finally, he starts opening up, and he tells Michael, everyone wants me to be this enduring warm person, filled with friendly, hermit wisdom, just spouting off fortune cookie lines from my hermit house. But that's just not what it is.

I mean, he seems woke. Christopher seems confused at the idea of like, why are people, why are young people sitting in an office just like during your prime years staring at a computer. That makes no sense. I mean, I guess for what? In exchange for money? That's fine, but Christopher lived for a living. That's what the book said. Christopher lived for a living, so it's a very different thing. But he also states, I wasn't consciously judging society or myself. I just chose a different path. Now as the trial is upcoming, I mean, people are pissed.

Some people in the community wanted him to get maximum punishment. Their kids were terrified because their summary cabins were broken into sleepless nights. They felt violated. Why didn't he just hunt? Why didn't he fish for food? It's not about what he stole, but he stole the sense of peace from us. He's a fraud too. There was a huge group of people that believed there's no way he actually lived in the woods.

He was clean, he doesn't smell, he's doing this to get sympathy, he's trying to get a book deal out of this crime. He's disgusting. There's no way 27 years, oh and he can still talk, no I don't buy it for one minute. But the police, they bought it, like they went to his place No, I don't buy it for one minute. But the police, they bought it. Like they went to his place. They did not think that this was a lie. And I think it's hard to believe because human brains are wired for connection because connection builds happiness. I mean, we've all heard loneliness kills, right? But on the contrary,

Chris would actually tell Michael, I wanted to laugh in prison because they use solitary confinement as like the highest deepest punishment, right? His whole thing was he wants to be in solitary confinement. Put me in solitary confinement. He's laughing at the idea that prison uses this as the deepest punishment. That is crazy. He begged for solitary confinement. Has he gotten one? No. I mean, eventually got his own cell, but it wasn't like solitary confinement. Wow, that is crazy. He did not like talking to people. He only said like, no, yes, please, thank you. That was about it.

Now, a lot of people, on the other hand, were very sympathetic. Even the director of the Pine Tree Camp, which was where he stole the most from, said that, if I probably caught him in the act, I'd let him go probably. I don't hate the guy, you know, like he did what he thought he had to do. The owner of the private property where he set up his camp said, it's nothing to be mad about. If I caught him, I probably would have let him be. I wouldn't have evicted him. I wouldn't even have called the police. Wow. So there was just a lot of, you know, confusing stuff going on. Now the family, the night family, Chris's dad had actually passed away while he was in

the woods, but his mom and his siblings were alive and they were really upset at the fact that he had committed crimes. They also were upset with the fact that they didn't know if he was dead or alive for the past 27 years. So Chris pleads guilty to 13 counts of burglary, the stolen items list were batteries, food, soda, a pair of jeans, a book, $40 like the list goes on with the most mundane who even burglarizes homes for this. And he received a sentence of 7 months in prison and psychological counseling. And he has to call his case manager daily and appear in court once a week for progress updates for an entire year

If he doesn't he can face up to seven years in prison But he actually got through it and you're thinking what I'm thinking, okay? Like this guys, I know he said that he doesn't have this harm at wisdom, but there's kind of something This is what he told Michael Finkel During his 27 years never for a moment was he bored. I did examine myself. Solitude did increase my perception, but here's the tricky thing. When I implied my increased perception to myself, I lost my identity. With no audience, no one to perform for, I was just there. There was no need to define myself. I became irrelevant.

The moon was my minute hand. The seasons were my hour hand. I didn't even have a name. I never felt lonely. To put it romantically, I was completely free. That was so good. Because you read the lot. That was so good.

And so Michael kept saying, do you have a lesson for all of us? All of us in barbarians with all the little iPhones and TikTok scrolling every point two seconds? By the way, I'm one of them, right? He said, do you have a lesson? And he just looked at him and said, Get enough sleep. And that was that. That was his lesson for 27 years. Where is he now? What is he doing?

He's in Maine. I mean, it looks like he's Definitely not online, okay? He's in Maine. I mean, it looks like he's definitely not online, okay? Definitely not being interviewed. You're probably having a lot of trouble, right? Yeah, he never really sent an email, never talked on the phone or anything. He actually mentioned that technology was going back. That was so good what he just said.

Could you just say that one more time? Because it's really, it's kind of blowing my mind around. So he said, I did examine myself. Solitude did increase my perception. But here's the tricky thing. When I applied my increased perception to myself, I lost my identity. With no audience, no one to perform for, I was just there.

There was no need to define myself. I became irrelevant. The moon was my minute hand. The seasons, the hour hand. I didn't even have a name. I never felt lonely. To put it romantically, I was completely free. Honey.

You're going to the world. Just say. If I'm gone one day. No. And then I come out tomorrow, he's like set up a camp in our backyard. I'm like, this is not what Christopher Knight meant, okay? Wow. It technically it is a crime.

It's a very big crime. Yes. But it's a wild one. And I think it's very telling that he didn't come out with this wisdom. Like this feels so transparent and vulnerable. He doesn't want to tell the world, hey, this is what you guys should do because I had solitude and I could, I can figure out the solution to all your problems. Can you relate to him in any percentage or not, or not really? Can you, can you feel like,

do you, do you see where he's going's coming from? Yes, I feel it. Sometimes I do get overwhelmed with technology or I do get overwhelmed with like, overthinking everything. So the idea of like being in a place where I don't have to think of that. I think that's a little different. Like from what I'm feeling,

like there's a percent, there's like a voice in me. That's like doing it. I get it. I feel like there's probably a lot of, maybe, I don't know, I wanna say maybe introverts or some, there's certain type of personality can relate to what he got through. Probably, I feel like there's, yeah, a good amount of people out there

that's like, this is my dream. Yeah, cuz this is hitting home. I mean, see, I like it, but I think, I think I'm one of those annoying people. I think we practice a lot of solitude. It's just you and me and you guys, most of the time. But we don't really go out and hang out with a bunch of people. I think that's like my, I like that. But that's still too much for me sometimes.

Oh really? So, is this me? Are you trying to say something to me? How do you guys feel? Do you feel like without the theory, without the burglaries? Is this what you would dream of? Is this something that you think about often? You're like sitting at work, you're like, this is what I want. This is my mental escape and would you ever do it? Let me know.

And I hope you guys enjoyed today's mini-sode and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye! and would you ever do it? Let me know and I hope you guys enjoyed today's mini soad and I will see you guys on Wednesday for the main episode. Bye!