Saturn Returns with Caggie - 2.12 Turning Struggles into Strength: Jessica Sepel

Episode Date: December 21, 2020

Turning Struggles into Strength: Jessica Sepel on Health, Nutrition and Building a Brand Jessica Sepel is a clinical nutritionist, author and businesswoman who has helped over a million people find balance with food and nutrition. After years of struggling with fad diets and body image issues, Jess managed to transform her lifestyle and now she's passionate about empowering people to give up dieting and find balance with food for life. In this episode Caggie and Jess discuss their own journeys, how their relationship to their bodies has changed, and how overcoming your struggles can become your greatest strength. --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. Now, my guest today is the holistic nutritionist, Jessica Seppel, founder of JS Health. She is also a friend of mine from Sydney, Australia. So I think it's really important to pour love and pleasure into your life and into your body in other ways. And sometimes when you go through those periods of overeating or binging or overdoing it, maybe the question to ask yourself is, how can I fill up my soul, fill up my cup, nourish myself in other ways. So back to today's guest, Jessica Seppel. And Jess's whole philosophy is that it's not about dieting, it's not about punishing yourself, but instead listening to your body and nourishing your body at the most

fundamental level and feeling good in whatever size or shape is right for you. This is a super supportive and positive conversation about food and eating habits but we're telling it how it is and we do discuss some experiences and ideas that I know can be triggering for people. Anxiety around food, negative body image, restrictive eating, so do take care if these things are difficult for you. So before we get into the episode let's quickly check in with our astrological guide for the season, Nora. During our Saturn return we go through so many challenges and one of the prominent ones is our self-love, better boundaries, healing, any kind of health issues that we had and so in that way that kind of ties in especially if you have a prominent Saturn in your chart or if you have Saturn aspecting your moon or your Venus and

you're a Taurus, a Libra or a Pisces then that will be a big theme for you. What Saturn return does what happens during that time is that it builds you up quietly over those two years between the ages of 28 and 30 and it creates in you a quiet self-confidence and you don't even notice it and then by the time that you're in your 30s you feel more accepting of your body you feel more accepting of who you are because you've surmounted all those challenges and you validated your own strength you validated your own body and you've come to value your body. You've come to value yourself.

Saturn Return really challenges us. And it brings a lot of friction, a lot of difficulty. But it also brings a lot of opportunity to grow and to really come up shining. To begin with, I'd love to just bring it right back because it seems like a theme of a lot of people that I've spoken to it's like how they've managed to turn their struggles into their strength like we've talked very openly about it in the past about your relationship with yourself and to food and all that sort of thing and how you've really alchemized that into you know a global business which is incredible and I would love it if you how you've really alchemized that into a global business, which is incredible.

And I would love it if you felt comfortable, if we could kind of talk about that experience from its sort of origins. Totally. So as you know, I was actually brought up in a healthy home. My mom was always cooking healthy food and I have a grandmother who was meditating and doing yoga and drinking her green juice and popping her vitamins. So growing up, I was brought up in this very, very wellness-focused family. And then we immigrated from South Africa to Australia when I was 13. And that's really when things started to change for me. I kind of lost touch with my healthy life and I discovered fad

dieting. And my body was starting to change because of puberty and I didn't like it and I was putting on weight and my hips were getting bigger and I was also watching fashion TV. There was no social media at the time. I just was on a mission to be thin. And so I discovered fad dieting and fad dieting was my way of controlling my weight and being thin. And I thought being thin would make me more lovable and make me happier when in fact, of course it didn't. And I really fad dieted from the age of 13 to at least the age of 23. But then after school, I went off to study a bachelor of health, definitely still fad dieting at that time. And then I went to do another two years of nutritional medicine. So starting for five years. And that's when I started blogging about the journey of the transition from being this fad dieter to becoming much more of a whole food balance even repairing my relationship with

food so it started pretty I mean 13 is really quite young I think we've had similar relationships to food and to our bodies and yeah went through puberty which it felt in a way like my body was turning on me because I'd grown up my whole life just being able to eat literally anything and everything and never putting on any weight to the point where actually I wanted to put on weight. Obviously you always want what you don't have. It just kind of came on in like odd places. I was like, what is this? This is horrible. It's such a shock. The world is screaming at you to be thin and look a certain way. How can you not feel frightened? Yeah. and actually when you said that fashion tv thing that's what I watched every single day after school I have done countless interviews and everyone always says to me so where did you

discover fat dieting and up until now I've always said you know through to the trashy magazines celebrity culture but only recently I was like hang on I used to watch fashion tv for hours in the afternoon they were really really thin skeletal models during the 90s and early 2000s yeah they were like emaciated and I get it wasn't necessarily that I was watching it thinking that they were saying be thin be thin but that's a subliminal message you know that was what the archetype of beauty was at that time I mean for me like I was kind of idolizing it exactly exactly and also there wasn't the same sort of education in terms of health and nutrition it was kind of like you know skip skip meals chain smoke and have a diet

coke I mean that was my methodology behind it 100% or maybe like the lemon detox diet on the side definitely like coffee with artificial sweeteners for me, my go-to to snap the hunger away. Sometimes when I talk about it, I'm just like, that is so sad because the worst part about, you know, fad dieting and, you know, being obsessed with being thin is that your relationship with yourself and your body really does take the toll. It's taken me up until now, like to really be able to nourish and heal my relationship with food and myself and understand how to treat my body with kindness and care. I mean, I'm when I'm 31 now, it's really, I would say the last two years, I feel like I have a

really, really genuinely wholesome, nourished, kind, gentle relationship with myself and food. Yeah, because actually actually because we're the same age we're both 31 so we've I mean to go back to the overarching theme like we're sort of out of our Saturn return really but I would say that the last two years for me have been the most pivotal in so many ways but definitely in addressing my relationship to food in the sense that I very much believe that I would never not be burdened by it. Oh, that makes me so happy. Me too. I was like, there's no way. I used to tell my husband, Dean, who saw my really horrific negative body image days where it would completely take over

my life. And he would see, you know, my relationship with food becomes so strained at different periods of time. And I said to him, I'll never get over this, you know my relationship with food becomes so strained in different periods of time and I say to him what like I'll never get over this you know and sometimes I also do think it's anxiety that manifests in that area well that's what I'd love to talk about that like what would that experience be like on a bad day and how what would you if you had to have put it down to something that triggered it what would that be and then how would that manifest? And how would that spiral? I always say the most underrated emotion or the most underspoken about emotion is pressure. I think as women, we're just feeling enormous amounts of pressure without even realizing it. Pressure to look a certain way, pressure to perform in my career, pressure to just be like pressure to be in this world and just do everything perfectly. I am an absolute

perfectionist and it's impossible to, you know, to reach that bar sometimes. So I would find that those periods of my life where I was feeling pressure, that's when it would manifest into negative body image. That's when I would start to berate myself. That's when I started to become really picky with my food and really restrictive and feel huge amounts of food guilt. And it would make me feel really out of control. For me, it's relieving the pressure to do it all perfectly. It's really managing my anxiety. For me, it's as simple as getting off my phone, deleting social media after this call. It's about managing, of course, because I'm a nutritionist, I have to mention diet. I really eat foods that nourish my nervous system, fats and proteins and I only have one coffee a day because we know caffeine in excess amounts can be a

problem it's about really just balancing out your diet and lifestyle you know I've given up my coffee and you know what for me it's that pressure thing I become a bit addicted to that feeling of that sort of fight or flight like anxiety it's I think because I used to be a very extreme person with like you know other substances or whatever so I'm I'm used to putting my body in that state of like chaos really yes it's an addictive feeling exactly and that like coffee and hit in the morning was kind of like it will it's what got me out of bed in the morning it's like right I'm gonna go and get my coffee and then I have this like quite intense high for a bit and then would crash but it was actually affecting my um immune system so it

wasn't just a like oh I'm gonna give up for no reason like I think it was putting a lot of pressure on my adrenal glands yes it can and I think a lot of some people don't metabolize caffeine very well for me I actually don't feel much people don't metabolize caffeine very well. For me, I actually don't feel much. I don't get jittery or anxious and I absolutely have to stick to the one cup a day. And that's been part of the J's health philosophy forever. One cup of coffee a day. And what we find is when people exceed that, especially with the second or the third or the fourth cup of coffee, that's when it starts to really take a toll, especially on the adrenal glands and also

sleep, of course. We know caffeine stays in our bloodstream for at least eight hours. I know if I have a coffee after lunchtime, my sleep is for sure affected. And also what I've realized over the years of practicing as a nutritionist is there's something about caffeine linked to sugar cravings. Caffeine in excess amounts. When I used to consult as a practitioner, I was seeing the people who were having that second, third, fourth cup of coffee, especially after lunch, were the ones that were really having those insane sugar carbohydrate cravings at around 4, 5, 6 p.m. I mean, some people have sugar and honey in their coffee, which again, can trigger sugar cravings later on in the day. But I think it's got more to do with the fact that caffeine produces adrenaline and adrenaline and our blood sugars have a relationship. And too much adrenaline in the body isn't good.

When adrenaline gets pumped out, pumped out all day, all day, what it can do is it can crash your blood sugar levels. And that's when you start just, you know, feeling really tired and you need that pick me up. There's normally sugar that's calling your name. And I think that's kind of like romanticized in today's, especially in city living of like, you know, coffee is always a good idea. It gets me through. Like, would you suggest that basically people just stick to one a day in the morning? Yes. And then fight the cravings for the like 4 p.m. sort of cake and coffee here?

Yeah. So if you're, so this is when like the JSL philosophy comes in. So it's having that one cup of coffee a day. Cause I, for me, it's so enjoyable and I just don't want to give it up, but you're very brave. And then it's about making sure that the rest of your meals throughout the day are really supportive. So are you having a lunch that includes good fats, good proteins, and some fiber to keep your blood sugar levels nice and stable? Because we know having those good fats and protein at lunch can really reduce that desperate need for sugar in the afternoon. And then I always recommend a 4 to 5 p.m. snack where I really encourage people to have a protein rich snack, whether it be just some almonds or some Greek yogurt with cinnamon and berries

or a protein shake or something really satiating that has enough protein and fiber in it. or something really satiating that has enough protein and fiber in it. And that actually instantly just cuts that sugar craving as well by having that 4 to 5 p.m. snack, you know, two or three hours later to have a nice dinner. And it really does seem to knock out sugar craving. That's really interesting. So I'd love to actually go through like the arc of the day because obviously it's very personal and everyone's different

and some people work better. It's like different foods, different portions or whatever. is it's not a one-size-fits-all but I think a lot of people they yo-yo because they go from this oh I put on weight or like I'm not happy with my body the internal critic gets into like overload and then they're like right we're starving you for the next three days and then they don't eat don't eat don't eat and then suddenly they're like oh my god I'm going to eat a dominoes or whatever and they hate themselves and then it's just like a nasty cycle well this is like the passion project of my life because I was that person I mean I was

addicted and I was always in the constant yo-yo either you know it's the cycle of restriction and deprivation followed by overeating or binge eating And then the worst part of it is the self-loathing and the food guilt, and then just feeling like you're a failure and everything. But you know what? To everyone out there, diets are not designed to be followed. They are not sustainable. We know the research states that diets do not work in the long term. So you're not failing. They are failing you. And so what my mission in my life through my books and blog and everything that I do is helping women realize that they can achieve their goals, feel the best they've ever felt without being stuck in that yo-yo cycle,

you know, break that perfect clean eating cycle and then go back to eating well and eating whole foods because it makes you feel good and energized. The J's Health philosophy is all about helping women learn how to eat food to feel good. On my eight-week program and in the app, I actually encourage people to go out once or twice a week and have wine and have the dessert and have a little bit of the bread and olive oil and enjoy and get the pasta that they're craving because it helps balance their relationship with food. And when it comes to weight loss, part of my philosophy is I tell women to give up the scale

for the first three months of their journey. And it's really difficult at first, but it is those people who give up the scale that tend to lose weight. It's just when you stop measuring, when you stop counting the calories, when you stop weighing yourself and being attached to every single number

to the point gram, whatever on the scale is when your body actually starts to relax. So I have found when you start to relax with food, your relationship with food heals and your physical body also starts to heal and your nervous system actually can also heal. And the cortisol stops pumping. I mean, as dieters, we are pumping out cortisol because we're worrying and thinking about everything and feeling stressed about everything we put into our mouths. And suddenly everything just calms down, especially their relationship with food,

their anxiety about food and their weight actually can come down from that. Well, I could say from my personal experience, what I've really noticed is like, I felt like I was either putting on weight or I was losing weight. That was it. And I was just yo-yoing and I just when people talked about balance and like eating nutritionally I was so disconnected from actually what my body wanted I was just giving it what I thought it didn't deserve that's a big thing you just touched on such a big part of my

philosophy which is helping women tune into their bodies and figure out what works for them as individuals I mean if you're living in this, you're being thrown so many mixed messages your way about what to eat, what not to eat, you know, fasting, keto, I mean, paleo, vegan, it is impossible. They literally pull opposite philosophies as well. It's so confusing. It's so confusing. You know, all of that can make you completely, as you just said, disconnect from your body. And therefore, you're not feeding your body the foods that it probably thrives off. So a big part of my job is helping women to block out the noise of the diet culture and

actually tune back into their bodies and figure out which foods make them feel well. And it's so empowering because it's such a relief to discover how unique we are. How can what works for me, the way that I eat, I can guarantee you it would not work well for other people. I'm so glad you said that. Cause I think a lot of people, especially in this like boom of wellness and eating clean and social media, it's like this one size fits all like follow this and you'll look this way and have this life. And it just doesn't work like that. So I think I really love that your message is like that it's unique and individual and it's really what works for you and I really like people to reconnect to their bodies because that's also just so important to reconnect your

body so you actually also build up your relationship with yourself I mean veganism is a perfect example some people really don't do well on a vegan diet. It's brilliant if you're doing it for ethical reasons and you care so much about animals and I have the utmost respect for that. But if you're becoming vegan because it's trendy, you have to be really, really careful because from my experience as a nutritionist, a lot of people who turn to veganism, they're not careful with getting in enough of the protein, which allows for amino acids or the omega-3s so suddenly their mood can be a little bit unstable their mood can shift their sleep can be

disturbed they start craving more sugar and carbohydrates their skin can break out but some people thrive off a vegan diet interesting because i'm basically i'm like a flexitarian or whatever but it really works for me. But I have a lot of people that are in your space, like, are you having enough omega-3 and like things that you get from fish and stuff that I perhaps don't have? Yeah, that's the omega-3s. Yeah. So some vegans are really smart because they know they have to be more diligent with their protein intake. They know they should probably be supplementing with the zinc and the B12 and the omega-3s. So if you turn to veganism and you do it properly, it's probably fabulous for so many people. I mean, I used to follow every single diet there

was trending. And when I started discovering the new way of eating, as you say, with flexibility and being super kind and gentle with myself and eating foods that would make me feel really good, it just became this huge relief for me. I was like, oh, I don't have to fast or do the ketogenic diet in order to feel good and achieve my health goals. I actually found it much harder to maintain my weight when I was yo-yo dieting and fasting and trying this and trying that. It was enormously stressful. And when I actually gave it all up and I feel like I sometimes believe in this thing of like, you know, emotional weight can also cause physical weight. I was so heavy with thoughts. I was so heavy with anxiety and so heavy with thoughts about food and my weight. And the minute I let that all go, I swear it just all fell off me.

Listen, there is nothing, there is no science behind this so we're not being quoted here but I just do believe what I've seen from my experience as a nutritionist is when you just let go a little bit you become more kind and flexible with food and you start tuning into your body everything starts to feel better because that was exactly the same as my experience as well because like I said I went from being someone that was like unless I'm controlling this so tightly I will just put on weight and I'll just this will be my life will be yo-yoing and then I guess it was like a year and a half when I stopped that and just let go of all of that stuff let go of that internal critic if I do eat something that's like not good I'm not bothered by it I'm just like this is just like what we're having today and if it was something

like pasta I absolutely love but it actually doesn't agree with my system. Me too. So I love pasta. So I will go out on a Saturday night and eat that bowl of pasta because it's so good for my relationship with food and nothing will happen. I will not put on weight because you can't put on weight from one bowl of pasta for anyone out there who's feeling enormous amounts of fear around carbs. But I do know that I'm not going to feel great the next morning. I'm going to feel tired and sluggish. So then I eat really well the next day to feel good. What you just said is so amazing to me because you're so in tune with your body. Like you're obviously super connected now to how food makes you feel and you're not listening too much to anything else. You're really listening to yourself. That's amazing.

Yeah, I'm not listening to anything else. I call it like intuitive eating. And I think like you said, a really good measure is the next day because that's when like the sluggishness or whatever feels, but rather than over identifying with that and being like, you did something bad, which is what I used to do. I just be like, oh, that, you know, we know that that doesn't really agree with us. But today we're going to like eat healthy and clean. Well, that's really a huge part of philosophy that I teach is how do we speak to ourselves with kindness? And I know it sounds awfully corny and cliche, but it's a huge part of the journey. And I do want to say to everyone out there who may be thinking they want to transition out of this fad dieting and restrictive eating and deprivation around food. It does take time. Like you and I are in a really good place and it's taken what, over 10 years? It is a transition. Do not expect to have zero negative thoughts or the self-critic to just disappear. You know, you will feel a little bit of food guilt still through the transition. But what the goal is, and this is what I talk a lot about and you do too, and listening

to podcasts and reading books and educating yourself in this way is to just help make small, minor adjustments to your diet and lifestyle that will support you transitioning from that bad dieting to becoming a more whole food balanced, intuitive eater. But you'll be amazed those small changes towards being kinder and more flexible with food. It's quite amazing how instantly you feel better and more relieved and more free with yourself. Like when you say that it's an addictive feeling, it's quite amazing how instantly you feel better and more relieved and more free with yourself. Like when you say that it's an addictive feeling, it's so joyous when you start to get those little moments of food freedom, really. What would you say are those little tips for people that are trying to make those adjustments? Like what does that look like in someone's day?

The first thing I would say is you really do need to stop the number obsession, you know, the calorie counting, the carbohydrate counting, the macro counting, the numbers, the weighing yourself. That's why I said, I encourage women to give up the scale for three months. So learning how to eat nutritious foods that support your body, learning how to give up certain foods that don't support your body. And that does take trial and error. You know, you're going to learn, okay, these foods make me feel really good. These foods don't make me feel really good. I can have one coffee a day, no problem. But if I have two coffees a day, yes, my sleep is affected. Definitely blocking out the noise of the diet culture. So if you're following people on social media or YouTube, it's not a good idea to keep following them because it's quite brainwashing. So I like people to go through a phase of just

blocking that out. I think something that was really powerful for me is when I realized, how do I switch the psychology that will then impact my relationship to myself and food? Because it's all a domino effect. And for me, a big thing was eat and work out to feel good, not to look good. Yes. I mean, that's a huge thing. That's the thing that I actually missed out on to say is I think you do need to divert your attention away from the physical. That's why I say to people to give up the scale, because when you're so focused on the physical, the number, it's really,

really hard to tune in and heal the emotional self. You want to just redefine what beautiful means to you and what healthy means to you. For me, healthy really means waking up feeling good, waking up energized, eating foods that make me feel good, my mood being stable, my sleep being deep. That's really the definition of health. So it is definitely what you say is very powerful. It's letting go of the, I need to look perfect. And that's very, very difficult. Like what we're saying is easier said than done I'm someone that I know what my body type is supposed to be based off my genetics my parents like how I see my monks my mum's someone that's just never had like a conflicted relationship with food she

just doesn't guess it and so I was so similar for a long time it affected our relationship and it was horrible because I was like, she doesn't understand. But then I have like other people in my family that I definitely was influenced by. And that's a whole nother thing that I won't go into. But I knew that like my natural body type is, is quite small. It just is like I'm, I was always that way. But I equally, in equal measure, like that doesn't mean that someone that's not naturally small has to be small do you know what I mean like we we're all different shapes

and sizes I think the acceptance of that the acceptance that there is no specific shape or size that equals healthy and beautiful yeah and that does take a lot of time and a lot of transitioning and a lot of blocking out the noise as I always say to get to that place you know it's very very difficult in the world we're living in to not feel pressure to look a certain way I mean wouldn't you agree I would agree but I also think it's changed dramatically you know like we were saying when we were growing up it was very much about that like heroin chic look whereas now there's a huge movement in like body positivity and what I'll say with that is like that you know know, as an individual, what it feels

like to wake up feeling good in yourself. That's what I always say. So it's redefining for yourself what health and beauty is. For me, it is waking up and feeling good in my skin. That doesn't mean waking up and being a certain number and, you know, being emaciatedly thin. It means waking up and feeling comfortable in my skin, feeling confident, feeling energized, and feeling like I can tackle my day with this burst of vibrancy in life. You know, that for me has really become my definition of health. You have to stop latching onto what others say it should be. Yeah. And equally, I think the movement in body positivity, you know,

some people are naturally bigger, and they might, you know, wake up feeling really good. But then I'm also aware that you don't want to celebrate unhealthiness either. So like, again, it's like, it is so personal to the individual. That's how J's Health began, you know, really celebrating women of all sizes. It's been my absolute, you know, passion project forever. And I really truly believe it's just different for everyone. But I do think you can go too far, especially nutritionally to say, you know, you can just eat whatever you want.

But for me, that doesn't make sense because I just believe that what we eat is equated to how we feel. And there's just no way you can feel so good eating all the junk food in the world. I completely agree like you said it is a slightly like tricky subject matter as you know we are both speaking as like small white women I'm very aware of that really I know I'm like super confident in my opinion like feel really really sure that you can feel good at any shape or size. But what we're saying is there is definitely parts of the movement that can go too far and

basically encourage people to eat whatever they want and think that they will still feel their best. Because when I was stick thin, I wasn't feeling my best. I didn't feel my absolute best. I didn't feel energized. I wasn't sleeping well. I didn't feel my absolute best I didn't feel energized I wasn't sleeping well I didn't feel vital and excited about life but now I'm at a much more balanced weight and it's not perfect and I don't even know what it is because I don't weigh myself but I feel good when your motive is to look a certain way and to represent an ideal that you hold in your mind as like what attractiveness is or what the perfect body type is that person that's driving you will never let you get there you will never be there because that same that same voice is the one that goes

eat that entire thing of chocolate sort of paradox is like on one hand it's the one you think's helping you and getting you towards your goals but it's kicking that can down the road at the same time and so you really have to be aware of like who is in the driving seat when it comes to your relationship with your body and what's getting stronger than that voice isn't it it's getting stronger than the main voice it's just I think you know what's what's nutritional what makes me feel good like I have my go-to meals that like I know are really nourishing and make me feel amazing, but I also have a huge amount of flexibility.

I eat chocolate all the time. That's just something that I can do, but I just eat good chocolate or whatever. But a massive thing for me was actually stopping drinking alcohol. That really fueled that voice that made me. And it can also fuel like unhealthy eating habits the following day oh my god that was actually I'd say probably the biggest change for me is when I stopped drinking alcohol everything changed and everything became balanced and like now okay my weight might change a little bit but not really wow that's I mean everything you just said just sounds so

wholesome to me and I think you should be so proud. I mean, everything you just said just sounds so wholesome to me. And I think you should be so proud of yourself because the way you just spoke about food and your relationship with it just sounds really, truly healthy to me. But as you said, sometimes the anxiety and the self-doubt can manifest in other parts of your life. Exactly. And I mean, just to go back to the way it used to be to the extreme where I would have this thing where I like wouldn't be able to make eye contact with people. Like that's how... It's too confronting. Yeah.

But if I'd gone and like eaten really badly, I couldn't make eye contact with people afterwards because in my head, I felt like I instantly looked different. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I think now that you say that I think I had that too um you know what it is it's feeling of shame and feeling like you've failed and feeling just like you're not good enough and shame is the lowest like vibration of of all the emotions it's so

isolating but now what happens is like rather than before when that voice was the one that was in the driving seat, where I'd be like, oh, I want a bit of that. And then it'll be like, well, you've had a bit of it, you might as well eat the whole thing. do. And the first question I say to them, I say, oh, but are you depriving yourself? Are you telling yourself you should not have any cake or any chocolate? Well, that's going to backfire because the mind and body wants to rebel against that. It's going to find a way, unfortunately, to rebel against that mentality because it's just not designed to be sustainable. So the first question is when you were going back to those days when you were needing, or you're like, should I eat that whole chocolate? I need to eat the whole chocolate. I'm going to eat the whole chocolate. Did you, were you still in that phase of deprivation? Yeah. And actually there was one quite funny incident. I went to this very extreme health place where I didn't eat anything really for three days. They were like,

we're going to put you on a cleanse and, you know, each to their own. I personally, like that kind of stuff is not for me because it triggers that, that voice in my head that goes, this is how you need to live your life for eternity. And then what happened was afterwards I came back and they'd sort of said all these things like, you can't eat after 4pm. And it was just like the most extreme, unpleasant way of like living one's life. And I went to my dad's house for dinner and I was sort of like, you know, I can't eat this, can't eat that. And my stepmommom came and she I was watching tv and she put like a big bar of chocolate in front of me and I was like I'm not supposed to be eating chocolate she was like well just in case

you change your mind and went to bed and it was literally like I just remember looking at it and then looking at the tv and then looking at it then looking at the tv and then I just was like it's like something out of a cartoon and then I just had a piece and then I was like the cookie monster. That was it. And I, and it was like really dark chocolate. So I, it was like I had taken ecstasy or something. I was like, I was up all night. I didn't see a wink. That's exactly. But that whole dinner, you were saying to yourself, I can't eat night. I didn't see a wink. That's exactly. But that whole dinner, you were saying to yourself, I can't eat this. I can't eat that. And then, and that's what happens, unfortunately. But if you sat at that dinner, you said, dad,

you know, I'm happy to try anything. Let me know what's for dinner. I'm going to try a little bit of this. I'm going to try a little bit of that. Being super, super gentle with yourself. I think the outcome would have been quite different. Yeah. But this is like when I was 27 you know this is like before I'd really like addressed things properly I was and I think we all do often without realizing it's like numb ourselves with food even it can be healthy food but it's just this like the strict schedule of like okay eat this then eat that then and it's kind of pushing down the emotion and I can't and she sort of said to me like what would happen if if you didn't do that and I was like oh I don't know and then when I actually really sat with it it was hugely uncomfortable but I was in a place in

myself where I was able to go there and that's something I have to say as well for people listening like you have to be in a position and in a space in your own head or a place in your own feeling supported and supported exactly you don't dive into this stuff when you're not but what happened for me was when I actually got to the root of like okay what is that feeling that I'm trying to give myself or what is the feeling that's like underneath what's missing and at some point I had felt like that that was replacing love well that for me and I know that doesn't make like logical sense but somewhere along the line my programming had gone into this thing of if you eat this you will it's going to replicate a feeling of love that you've had missing or a feeling of safety that you've had missing. But then if you stop doing that, you would feel the void that is there.

It's so powerful what you just said. And I have from a nutritionist perspective, what I see those moments is people just are craving what you just said, self-love and self-nourishment. So there are other ways to nourish yourself and give yourself pleasure besides for food. And so a big part of my work is helping women find those little pockets of joy and nourishment that aren't always related to food. So for me, like after this call, I'm going to have a healthy dinner, but then I could easily spend my night drinking, you know, some hot chocolate and going to the freeze and getting a healthy treat, even though they're healthy, I could still be snacking all night. Right? And what I do is I have this most beautiful nourishing nighttime

routine. You would laugh if you saw it, if you come stay, I will provide you with it. It is an Epsom salt bath with a podcast on and lavender oil and the lights off. And then I read a really calming book and I spray and spritz lavender oil all over the room. At this point, my Instagram has been deleted and I have this really, really soul filling, nourishing nighttime routine. I've worked hard all day and then nine o'clock comes this time where I watch Sex and the City, like all my favorite TV shows. I maybe sometimes go for a night walk with Dean. So I'm doing all these little things that I therefore don't feel like I need to eat. So I think it's really important to pour love and pleasure into your life and into your body in other ways. And sometimes when you go through those periods of overeating or binging or overdoing it, maybe the question to ask yourself

is how can I fill up my soul, fill up my cup, nourish myself in other ways I think that's really powerful and I've also started to do that same thing where I delete social media off my phone and I I've got to say just like I'm not missing it at all it's just a thing of like I was aware of am I going on there to numb out we also don't realize what the inundation of information is doing to our brains and our nervous systems when I say to people stop scrolling at night from, you set a time that works for you. For me, it's eight o'clock. It could be nine o'clock for you, 10 o'clock, whatever works for your schedule, right? But they'll be like, so why should I stop scrolling?

It doesn't affect me. I can sleep. I'm like, no, no, no. People are not even conscious of the information and the pressure and the comparison and the anxiety that is coming from these devices of constant scrolling. It is not relaxing. It's not good for the brain. It's not good for the melatonin production, and it's certainly not good for nourishing yourself. So I think in small doses, it's great and inspirational and motivational, but we have to set boundaries. So a big part of

my work for the first five to 10 years was helping people learn how to eat well. But a huge focus of mine now is how do we set up boundaries because we're living in this chaotic world where we're connected in way too many different ways on way too many different platforms. I literally feel like helping women set boundaries has almost become more important and more powerful than telling them to eat that green smoothie bowl. It's like, oh my gosh, are you seriously staying up to 11 o'clock and scrolling on Instagram? Do you know what that's doing to your cortisol, to your brain? Are you seriously waking up and the first thing you're doing is attending to all the demands? What about starting your day on a beautiful, peaceful note? I mean, I think we don't realize the impact this

might be having on our mental health. Well, we can see it, you know, like statistically, we can see the impact and the implications because anxiety is skyrocketing. And it's undeniable to not address the correlation between the two. But it is undeniable. So if you are struggling in any way with mental health, for me, I really have to look after myself because anxiety can be the thing that gets me. If you are feeling depressed or your mood is affected in different ways or you're feeling just irritable or frustrated, I mean, I really think we all need to, including us, like we're not perfect. It's just having a look at our boundaries with social media and technology in general

and not just that. Like for me, it's also the demands of my social life, my personal life, my work life. It's like managing so many different demands from so many different areas. It's like, no. So one of my things is I will not attend to those demands until I've had a nourishing grounding morning routine. So for at least the first 30 to 40 minutes of waking up, I wake up into a peaceful world where I do not check my phone. I have my morning coffee. I go for the walk or do my yoga practice from the app and then have my smoothie or my toast and pop my vitamins. And then I feel ready to attend to the world's demands. Has changed my life. It's changed the way I, you know, how productive I am at work. It's changed

my energy levels. It's changed my mood. It's changed my frustration levels. And a really big motivation for me around it at the moment has been like, okay, where do I want my life to go in the next five years? Like, who do I want to be? And the problem with social media is it doesn't cultivate the individual. And I also think what you said before is so powerful. It doesn't allow for space. It doesn't allow for space. Exactly. And it doesn't allow. And when you don't allow for space, you don't allow yourself to feel. And when you don't allow yourself to feel, you create anxiety and stress in the body that creates disease and illness. You are so good. You're a little guru. I don't know. I don't know about that. But it's a hard thing to do because society doesn't encourage that. You know those days where you have just immense overwhelm, you want to like give up, you're like I can't do this anymore, you feel completely just done. Those are those moments to say hang on a second, I need to take a few big

steps back and that's when you have to allow for space and it's so amazing what you just said and I'm so grateful that we had this conversation because just this weekend, I just decided to have no plans from about Friday to Monday. I was like, absolutely no plans. And I just rested and I just did things mindfully. And I just moved super slowly. I have found, and I know it's only Tuesday night here in Sydney, but I am in such a good headspace. There's been very minimal anxiety this week. Very, very little frustration, very little like overwhelm or fatigue. And I think what I need to learn from that is, okay, wow, Jess, you gave yourself some space. We all run very busy, big, full lives and it comes at a cost. So I just think we really, really need to take it

seriously. Is there anything that you'd like to to add to the listeners of Saturn Returns before we wrap it up yeah I think really just giving yourself a lot of time being as kind to yourself as possible through the journey through the transition and just having that faith that it will get better, whatever it is, if you're struggling with anxiety, depression, a really strange relationship with food, it does pass, it does get better. And it for sure makes you a better, stronger person. You know, even my relationship with food, my, my real struggle with my body, all of that gave me J.S. Health, like the biggest blessing of my life. All my, the hardest times in my life have for sure provided me with the biggest blessings and I really don't say that lightly they are just so

soul strengthening and so we just need to go through life's challenges and realize together we need to be kinder and more gentle with ourselves thank you so much all right Jess well thank you very much for coming on the Saturn Returns podcast it's such a pleasure thank you so much for having me that was the best I'm so pleased that I was able to get Jess on this season of Saturn Returns and I think it's a really important conversation to be had especially around this time of year where traditionally we're obliged to overindulge and I think it's more important than ever to be kind and gentle to yourself and listen to your body and what truly works for you so if you guys have the opportunity you should

check out JS Health Vitamins because they have launched in the UK and I'm very proud of Jess I wasn't a huge fanatic about vitamins before but I definitely am now and all my friends are using them so if you felt inspired by her and our conversation and her passion for nutrition and health check them out and if you'd like to follow Jess on Instagram and have any questions for her or me you can find her at JS Health and me at Kagi's World and if you would like a reading from our astrological guide, Nora, you can find her at Stars Incline. And just a quick reminder that tickets for the live show are on sale now. So you can go get them on Dice and come along to the Clapham Grand where I will be talking with the wonderful Catherine Gray.

Please do continue to share this podcast with anyone you think might find it helpful. And if you could leave us a review on Apple, that would be very lovely too. Saturn Returns is a Feast Collective production. The producer is Scarlett O'Malley and the executive producer is Kate Taylor. Until next time, thank you so much for listening and remember, you are not alone. Goodbye.