Saturn Returns with Caggie - 4.10 Love Purpose Connection with Estelle Bingham

Episode Date: November 22, 2021

For a change this week, we hear Caggie being interviewed by her friend and healer, Estelle Bingham. When Estelle and Caggie first connected they instantly made friends, and in this episode they explore what purpose means to Caggie, as well as her love for music and poetry and the journey she has gone on over the last two years. --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone, it's me, Kagi, and today on Saturn Returns we're doing something a little bit different. We're going to be publishing an episode from Estelle Bingham's brilliant podcast Love Purpose Connection. Now Estelle and I have a very special relationship. I've been seeing her for a number of years. She's an incredible spiritual teacher and healer. And so it was a complete honor to be on her show. And I really loved this conversation because you'll get a chance to hear me being interviewed. And because Estelle knows me so well, she knows exactly what to talk about.

So I hope you enjoy this change of hearing me being interviewed. I would love to know what you think. Enjoy. I'm Estelle Bingham and this is the Love Purpose Connection podcast. Here on Love Purpose Connection, I want to explore how to discover and really develop the secrets of a good life. I'm a holistic therapist and healer, and so over this series, I'll be sharing frank, inspiring, sometimes raw, often joyful conversations with a different guest each time, exploring just what those three words really mean, and also crucially, how you can discover and develop them in your own life. Today I'm talking with actress, musician, and host of the Saturn Returns podcast,

Kagi Dunlop. You may know Kagi from the reality TV series Made in Chelsea, but today it's her podcast which explores experiences of change and transition that has a really devoted following. I've known and worked with Kagi for some time now, and what I find really inspiring about her approach to life is her commitment to her own authenticity. In working to be her true self, she really allows others to be theirs. So Kagi, welcome to the Love Purpose Connection podcast. Thanks for having me. I'm very excited. It's very exciting. We've both managed to remote record with our mics. So, I got a message from you three or four years ago and I didn't get back to you. Actually, I think it was three years ago. Made in Chelsea days was like eight years ago now. So when I reached out to you, I was living in LA and I was at that time back in London for a break,

but it was a while ago. And then it was locked down and I heard your wonderful podcast, Saturn Returns. I heard an episode of that and I thought, oh, I recognize that person somehow. And then somewhere in the ether, we kind of came back to each other and you came to see me and it was this perfect moment. And this was actually my question about divine timing and do you believe in it yeah I do I do and I also believe you know the universe brings you what you're what you're ready for and what you're supposed to learn and I think we kind of discussed this when we when we first saw each other that for whatever reason the timing probably wasn't right before I was in a very different place then and so yeah I guess I do believe in divine timing it's a tricky one isn't it because I think it's something that

I had a lot when I was younger about the importance of timing specifically when it comes to relationships and never quite grasped what that meant but But it is a crucial element to it. So it was perfect timing because you've been on such a journey, haven't you? My 20s were a very sort of strange and turbulent and chaotic time of self-exploration, of trial and error, a lot of fumbling and falling all over the place, like I think many people's 20s are. And my experience in LA whether it would

have happened anywhere in the world who knows but during my Saturn return when I went there was when I really went on the spiritual path that has probably always been brewing in me and I've always had an appetite and a curiosity for it but it was when I really lent into it. So going to LA it was a crossroads moment. You reached out, there was something happening in that fumbling and falling. And it was that moment where you needed a bit of clarity or just direction. And that's what happens in our twenties. We're kind of, there is this often, we're very lost. I was very lost. Yeah, I was very lost. Was there a freedom in LA or did you get that, you know, overwhelm that happens?

Because I've lived in LA and I know what it's like. I definitely experienced an overwhelm for sure. But I had both because the coping mechanisms and the strategies that I had in place, that sort of architecture that I'd built up throughout my 20s and that version of myself that I'd sort of created all kind of came crumbling down and I wanted it to I really wanted to depart from that former self but in its place I didn't really know what was going to exist so it was a it was a strange time of I reflect back on it as a lot of solitude you know we're experiencing a huge

amount of solitude right now I kind of self-inflicted that when I was in LA anyway I was just very hermity I didn't really see that many people and I started finding people and practices that were a bit more esoteric they weren't you know things that my friends back home would have they would have all laughed at yeah and so I started leaning into that and finding that those kind of experiences were grounding me in a way that I was really craving at that time to just feel rooted and grounded in myself which I'd never really experienced as far as I could remember so um there was that side of it but there was a, I get overwhelmed very easily, just in general. It's something that I struggle with because I've actually noticed recently that that is when a lot of things kind of go out of control for me. That's the beginning. When I

start to feel overwhelmed, I tend to shut down. It's not a great trait. Tell me a little bit about that, Keggy. So this, this idea of what is in the overwhelm, do you know what's in the overwhelm? That's a good question. I mean, the voice that's kind of coming to me, but I wouldn't necessarily be able to articulate why, is perhaps fear. I don't entirely know of what,

but I get in a state of overwhelm because my brain will sort of think, oh, I have to do all these things immediately. I'm not very good at being like, okay, this doesn't all have to be done right in this moment. A word that I keep telling myself, and you'll find this quite funny because I'm so not naturally this way inclined, but I'm really trying to become someone that is more considered. And it's a strange word to use because I'm not an inconsiderate person but I'm quite chaotic and so I'm really trying to focus on like the

intentionality behind things to be slower and measured with with everything so I'm the sort of person that will like erratically open up the cupboards and like cacao will come flying out and land on my head and there'll be an a chocolate explosion you know so it's like even just when I'm on my own really as well but you've witnessed it like in person I have witnessed it it's fabulous but I'm really trying to to work on it because I think that you know I, I'd like to, I think life is better when you're more measured and, and slow about things, actually. And I think you get more done. It's interesting, isn't it? The, the idea of that kind of chaos, because we've talked about that,

haven't we? Yeah. Where it keeps us, it kind of holds us. It's a little bit of a holding pattern. It kind of keeps us from being fully in the moment and what that can then bring which is you know when we're actually present we are available fully and then we are you know that changes the slipstream it means that we are in a sort of slightly different frequency of being less diversion. Yeah, which for some reason I find difficult. Well, let's have a think about the shutdown. So you're talking about the overwhelm and then there's the shutdown to that overwhelm. And what does that look like? Recently, I had a moment where I sort of imploded on myself and it manifests itself in depression eventually. And so people often say, you know, is there something that causes that causes it is there something that triggers it so I've really been like reflecting

back and you know I used to think it was to do with alcohol and my lifestyle and that definitely plays a part and since I've done a lot of work around those things and stopped drinking and everything it made a massive massive difference but it still would rear its head occasionally I couldn't quite figure out why and I noticed that the two times it's happened in the last year, quite, you know, in a debilitating way was once when I was in lockdown with my brother and once when I've been on my own and both my brother and the person that I have been dating have a huge amount of energy and they, and they have like a lot of opinions and it's like have you done this I want to help you with that and it's all from a really good place but I

can't help but internalize it as criticism because I don't work like that and so if I get too many opinions and things flying at me I internalize that it's like you're not doing good enough this person's telling you to work on that you need to work on that like and so it's really to do with the overwhelm of what's going on in my life then gets used as fuel for that internal critic that I always have to be aware of I think probably it would be safe to say that a lot of people might be experiencing that more at the moment because we're not taken out of ourselves in the way that we usually are. So it's for a lot of people we're experiencing, you know, it's that voice is there quite a lot.

It's echoing, isn't it? It's a massive echo chamber for all of the stuff that we're carrying in a deep place. And that voice, that inner critic is loud. There's nothing else going on. inner critic is loud there's nothing else going on so it's sort of this idea of the the masculine and that and the the masculine voice internalizing that as the critic you know I never I never actually thought about it being gender specific but I guess that has an effect but essentially the inner critic is the one that's transmuting that into negativity. And that's the thing. It was never, the intention is never to upset me or criticize me from the person, but I'm the one interpreting it in that way. So I guess essentially what you're getting at

is something that we've discussed is like my relationship to the masculine and how I interpret that. And that has been something that I'm still working on that's been a massive thing for me that I had no idea was even there at all even like in my experience now I'm having a very different experience with someone romantically that's unlike anything I've ever experienced before and yet there's always this part of me that doubts that someone can sort of be that way that can really love you yeah in that kind of way yeah what kind

of way is that in a way that's not wanting anything from me or not wanting not loving me conditionally to to them in the sense of like what I make them feel but equally I'd say I in the past if I'm honest I'd love in that kind of way as well as in it's I really had to look at it as like how much has it been about just loving that person versus loving how they make me feel I've always been someone that's fallen in love very fast. I probably prided myself on that because I, you know, as you know, I'm very extreme. I've confused intimacy with intensity. And so for me to be in something at the moment that's very measured, you know, it's the same theme that I kind of mentioned earlier that about wanting to be more considered

about stuff that applies in love as well, that it's not like something that's rushed or grabbed it's something that has to be more considered that unfurls yeah so for people who are listening this idea of you know understanding your relationship to the masculine, the sacred masculine, the functioning masculine, that wholeness of good love. How would you describe those steps, that understanding that's brought you from one place to this place where you're on the threshold of experiencing love and relationship and intimacy in a very different way? Well, I wouldn't say it's as conscious as I would like to describe it as in the sense that I wish I could give a sort of step-by-step thing of that but it wasn't like that it was like to kind of go back to your

first thing it was like divine timing I had no idea that the person that I am going through this with now was going to come into my life but I think it was more to do with me addressing that stuff in myself first and required a lot of healing with you know childhood experiences and and to just you know a caveat there is that I I think that there's a lot of space and a lot of growth that can come from reflecting upon or going into inner child work. And I'm a big advocate for healing and therapy and all that stuff. But I also think that we can marinate in that space for too long and it can become problematic. I mean, just to be completely transparent, there was a comment that my

dad made to me when I was 14. So when I was like 14, I had braces. I was really, I felt horrible. I just didn't want to exist. There's a lot of 14-year-old girls sometimes feel. And I remember my dad sang me this song and he used to sing it to me quite often. And the lyrics were perfect hair, perfect teeth teeth we model ourselves on Normandy Keith I didn't know who Normandy Keith was but essentially I internalized that as I have to be perfect to be loved and the guy that I'm dating now I told him about it because it was something that had been like brewing in me recently because I don't consider myself a perfectionist because I'm so messy. I never thought I could be, but I actually am in certain aspects of my life in the sense that I stop it from

allowing me to receive what I want. Anyway, to go back to my point, the guy I'm dating now brought it up to me the other day on the phone. He's like, I've been thinking about that thing that your dad sung you. And he was like, you know, he didn't sing that to you because he didn't think you were perfect. He sung it because he did. And it really hit me because it made me realize that it was my way. It was how I'd received it. You know, a lot of these messages growing up, we can villainize the other person. We can villainize Disney,

you know, the media, all this stuff. But it is also our own personal responsibility to change the way we're receiving it, and to change that internal critic in our head that's continuing to tell us that we're not enough, that we're not perfect's I'm not gonna lie it's not easy for me to feel worthy of that because my biggest fear now is if I accept it and I invite it in and it disappoints me then how would I survive so it's almost like a defense mechanism that it's like it's easier to think the worst and have you know like you said to me that I have low expectations of the masculine so that's kind of where I'm at at the moment yeah so it's how we sort of transform those expectations and it's interesting going back to this this idea of perfect smile

perfect teeth and all of the normandy keith song and the sort of idea of how a child internalizes that we are these sponges and and as children that is how we meet the world and so it whilst society at large and our parents who aren't going to get it perfect and people don't get it don't get it right all the time there is a kind of two-way experience you know we're co-creating so there's that moment where we take responsibility for oh you know I interpreted it like this but underneath that there is also a reason why you potentially interpreted it like that there'll be something in that relationship that means that that's how you took it. That's why it felt like it felt like that. It's this dance, isn't it, between us meeting the experience and the experience meeting us. So when you go on to

parent and your 14-year-old daughter has braces and you probably won't sing that song to her. 14 year old daughter has braces and you probably won't sing that song to her I definitely won't sing that song but the thing is I really truly believe that everyone does the best they can with the self-awareness and the tools they have available but this is what I found really interesting as a part of like especially your Saturn maternity there's a sort of emancipation from your parents and the authority shifts from being them to being you you can see people that are living like you know super successful lives are the bosses in the boardroom you know have an amazing partner whatever and then they go back to see their parents. It's why people find Christmas so triggering is because they're suddenly that 11 year old kid again, craving, you know, mom or dad's approval. And I think it's a really interesting thing because I think it

drives a lot of people more than they would care to admit. It's defining your own incarnation, your own time on the planet, right? And taking the sovereignty and creating your own life and your own reality, not allowing that experience to have the power over you, right-sizing it and ring-fencing it too. And just being like, okay, I'm choosing not to internalize it like that and forgive you for not getting it right. And that's part of that healing process, just to keep it moving, like you say, and not kind of get stuck in it. Yeah, for sure. And I think a really helpful tool for doing that. And we've done stuff around this when you sort of asked me what, you know,

what parts of me is speaking or feeling is actually being able to see the child or 14 year old version of me and feel what she's feeling without feeling it right now and I know that sounds sort of like a con that doesn't make sense but there's enough of a separation between who I am today and that version of me that I can almost hold space for her and that can be quite a powerful thing I think actually that's what happened after our first session together describe that for people who who don't know what that would be like oh my gosh so I didn't realize I felt a bit funny afterwards like there had like a bit vulnerable energetically and a bit open and then I remember I was just at my flat and this sort of vulnerability yeah I just felt quite fragile and I remember speaking to my mum and my mum said something like

I don't know just some kind of passing comment that I interpreted as like a massive criticism something to do with I don't know not understanding something about finances or something. It was just like a passing comment. And for some reason, it just set me off. And then I spent literally the majority of that day howling on the sofa. And I was crying so much I could barely breathe. And I couldn't figure out why. I can't believe I'm sharing this but I'm going to share it anyway and then suddenly like through the tears and through the like you know breathing I started saying something and I didn't really know what I was saying or what I was talking about or what was going on but I started saying like trying to say I don't want you to leave and I was just saying it again and again and again and until it got clear and I realized I don't know how why but I suddenly was

back as the 14 year old version of me when my parents got divorced and we had a family dinner and my parents told us that my dad was leaving and I remember my brother just being like well why is he still here then he should go and of course like this fight starts breaking out and I was just silent and I didn't say anything and that's been a massive thing for me a theme in my life of not speaking up it's a really and the more I don't do it the more painful it's actually getting in all sorts of areas of my life but it was you know I was speaking what I wanted to say in that moment and I didn't and I don't know what why it was that, but it just was what happened after our experience. And then I just kind of like cried it out until there was just no more tears left.

And until I cleared that part of my throat and was saying it clearly and actually speaking it. And something that I always struggle with is when I am in an opportunity where I want to speak my truth, I either don't, or two, if I do, it often gets hijacked by my emotions. Yeah, that's a big one. It's a big one. So when I'm like, okay, Kaki, you need to say how you feel right now, because this has upset you or like this is, you need to speak your truth. My whole body kind of like gets hijacked by emotions and it will just, I might say it, but it will be through sort of tears. And speaking my truth seems to run in tandem with crying, which is like kind of a not not even now I feel like I could burst into tears

because this is obviously quite personal stuff it's personal and finding those words and finding those moments in our journeys because we've all had them all of us have had them. Where we've found ourselves imprisoned by the experience on the outside, what's happening around us, the trauma on the outside, imprisons parts of our being. And then when we drop back into our heart energy, we go back to where we needed to go. We rediscover what was needed at that time. And what was needed at that time was for you to say those words. And the minute we allow that, we give permission, we just take a breath into that and we really drop into a deeper relationship with ourselves, a deeper intimacy with ourselves and express what it is that needed to be expressed. Like you say, just being with the inner child,

being with the 14-year-old, being with the five-year-old, being with that inner child and holding the space, becoming a safe container, becoming the adult for that expression. That's the big healing moment. That's the moment. I think the paradox of love and connection is that we so want vulnerability and to be seen for who we are and to truly connect. But we close ourselves and our hearts off because we're so fearful of what that will mean. I thought that I was, and I am in certain capacities very good at being vulnerable like in instances like this I sort of am good the way I describe it is like if I'm sailing around going from port to port I can be as vulnerable as I like because I know

I'm sailing off again but when it comes to staying still and present with one person and remaining in that space I find it tremendously uncomfortable because I realize that vulnerability is being seen where most of the time you you try to be hidden yeah and whatever that means for whoever's listening, it's actually that place where you hide. And again, it's one of those paradoxes, isn't it? It's like you hide that part of yourself for protection. And yet that's what you yearn for in love. And it is a tricky one. It's a tricky one because it requires a huge amount of faith and trust in the other person and in yourself.

A huge amount of courage. It's raw. It's a deeply, profoundly raw place to just feel into. But it's ultimately, you know, that's where we're really alive to life. You know, I definitely am not a master at it, but every time I act from that place of vulnerability, and it can never be conditional on the outcome it has to be in the act itself and when you do there is this small quiet victory in that it's not in what happens after it's in the doing it's in the process it's in the act itself and people don't always meet you there immediately, but you offer them an invitation to. And actually people want that.

People want for you to show them the example of what that means. And it might not be in the exact timing that you want, but I think that people tend to meet you there because that's what they crave too. They're craving connection. We're all craving connection. It's part of our humanity. I do need to ask you this question. When I say the words love, purpose, connection to you, what comes up for you universal things that bind us we all want love we all want a purpose and we all want to have a connection and those things interlink with each

other also I think through this experience of what we've all been going through right now we're going through a moment when we're all being really humanized I don't know if that's the right way of expressing it but I think we were valuing the wrong things before and I think that's why it's been perhaps necessary for this to be as long as it has and for everything to have unfolded as it has because I don't think we would have woken up otherwise and it does make you realize that you, having love is the most like tremendous thing any human can have. And it's something that we all do, you know, like no matter who you're speaking to across the world, love is that universal language. And to feel like you have a purpose is different from a career. And it's something that I think, you know, we very much are conditioned

to be goal orientated and think that financial success and owning these things is what it's about. And I think social media is definitely an example of that aspect of humanity of just like wanting luxury and wanting more and wanting the aesthetic and everything but purpose is a very different thing purpose is like something that when you feel aligned with your truth that you're on track to be doing what you're supposed to be doing and it's little to do with the you know everything else is just a positive from that but it's not your reasoning for doing it and so I think that's something that we all are on a quest to find and then connection I think what comes to mind when I think of that is I've always believed in the kindness of strangers

and I've always lived my life on that principle because I've had just as being someone as chaotic as I am I do get myself into some like sticky silly situations and people have always helped beyond you know what they really should or what was required of them you know it's always been a really beautiful aspect of my life that's made it so much more fulfilling and I think that you can learn anything from anybody and to kind of go back to your original thing of divine timing like when you this idea of the one or you know you're learning a lot from who you're with at the time you can truly learn and connect with anybody if you're open to it. And everybody has something to teach you. And I think if we were all a little bit more open in our hearts,

we would experience a lot more joy. But people are so shut off from connecting, I think now, ironically, as we're so interconnected in a digital sense. But I think we're really lacking in human connection. And I think that hopefully this whole experience and time will make people re-evaluate things in that sense, and actually come home to really what it's truly about. Do you feel like your purpose, we've spoken about your purpose a little bit, haven't we? We've spoken about your purpose a little bit, haven't we? Do you feel like your purpose is evolving? You've got this music part of you, this creativity that we've spoken about.

That was the last time I saw you and I was like, I want to talk about this. And you were like, no, let's talk about the music. I was like, no, I'm not ready to talk about that. I don't want to talk about that. You often bring up things that I'm not ready to look at. And I'm not ready to talk about that. Don't want to talk about that. You often bring up things that I'm not ready to look at. And I'm also very stubborn Taurus. So I'll sort of be like, no, that's not right right now. My purpose is always evolving because we're always evolving. And I think that the podcast has allowed me to communicate myself in a way and a space that feels very authentic and aligned to my truth.

And that facilitates like one facet of my being, which is, you know, I actually had a reading around, I think it was like my North node and my South node, and I'm probably gonna butcher this, but it was the one aspect is my sort of for healing, for holding space, for providing people with this kind of information and, you know, this sort of vulnerability that I'm sharing. But it has to be balanced out with my giving my creative self the space to create music and to do that stuff that's nurturing for my soul as well as nurturing other people's. And the music is a very fundamental

part of me that I often neglect. So recently, I've been having a lot of time to think about what direction I'm going to move in. And I'm very trusting in that the universe will let it unfold and the wrong things will be blocked and the right things will just kind of appear and I just have to pay attention to them. But music is definitely something that I want to move back into and I think it will have a different energy to it. And it also brings up a huge amount of fear, which is always actually an indicator that that's what you should follow. That's what you should walk towards. The thing you fear the most is where you will grow. Exactly. And you know what someone said to me once, and I've never forgotten it,

the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. And so my very strong negative response to in terms of how anxious it would make me feel, how much fear I had around performing, being seen like that was so exposing was I thought well then I must hate it it's not right for me to do but it's actually because it was love wrapped up in fear and you know if you feel indifferent towards something well that's a different story but actually you have to you know on the precipice of anything great fear is the gatekeeper I believe that and it's just stepping out of your comfort zone and through that space I'm not there yet but I'm working on it so tell me a little bit about your relationship

to music like when did you start playing the guitar when did you start singing I mean it was really it was a really odd experience and I'm surprised I haven't actually bought it to you more as a something to inspect because but it's like you know some people go to therapy for 10 years to talk about one thing and they never actually bring it up but I started singing when I was young but secretly so it would be it was this very secret thing like when my parents said they were going to the shop for 15 minutes I would sort of be like okay how long you know are you going to be I needed to know exactly so I knew how long I'd have to sing and then the door the key would go in the door I'd be like

I hope they didn't hear me I'd be horrified by the idea that they'd heard me and I just keep it kept it completely secret nobody knew that I liked to do it, but it brought me a lot of joy. And then it was when I, I then went to drama school in New York. I was too scared to ever sing. I could not open my mouth. And I was like, this is just never going to happen.

But I was doing a semester with singing classes. So I wanted to. And then it was actually when Maiden Chelsea came about they were interviewing me and I was like I don't know whether this is like the right thing for me to be doing to be honest they were like well what do you like doing I was like I really like singing but I can't sing in front of people and they wrote it into the first episode they were like so we really want you to see the show we've written into the first episode that you have a gig at the Troubadour. And there was something in me, there's something in me that like,

again, it's that intensity thing. Because it was all, and also my human design, like I need to be kind of given the invitation for stuff. So when I was given that invitation, I could do it. But if I'd not been given that invitation, I would never have done it. And then that kind of put me on this very unusual path, because obviously, I wasn't ready. But I was kind of catapulted into the strange world of like, reality TV and fast fame that, of course, comes down just as fast as it goes up and but music was something that I you know I

just really loved I love you know what it is I love the storytelling I love writing stories telling stories so music is your secret joy yeah music and acting you know someone came on my podcast the other day one of my friends and she you know, we only sometimes we only ever dream a half dream. And it really hit me. It's like we do dream a half dream because we're scared to dream the full dream. And I'm at this point now where I'm like, I don't want to live with regrets. I want to just go for exactly what I want. And if it doesn't work out, at least I did it. And I'll experience joy by doing it and that's really what matters. And what would you like to bring the world with your music? I just love how music has

the ability to make someone else's pain and struggles be alchemized into something beautiful for someone else and also how someone's story can become your story you know there's a song that just came out by this girl she's I think she's 17 it's called driver's license and I just heard it and I was like I am literally that age again and it's not her experience it was my experience but there was something in the song that I was like that is what it feels like to experience your first love and your first heartbreak and you know I'm 31 and isn't that the most amazing things that music and songs can take you back in time or forward in time or whatever it's well it brings me so much joy like listening to music so if I could give anyone that kind of feeling someone said to to me in LA, so I'm like darting

around the question, but someone said to me in LA, this person that I was writing music with, he gave me this piece of advice. And I've always remembered it. He's like, if you can make a meaningful contribution to society in whatever way aligns with what lights you up, then you're doing great. And it doesn't have to be huge huge it doesn't have to mean that you're like the biggest or the best in the industry or there but if you're doing something meaningful that you enjoy and that's like a positive contribution then like you're winning that's spot on isn't it yeah so I think that that's something I don't know as a takeaway for anyone listening like everybody has a unique set of gifts and it's your job to

share them with the world and you know I am interested if your guitar is close to you it is I'm not I'm not doing it I can't I honestly can't I know she's gonna ask me to sing I can't I don't need to sing I just want you to just literally I just I would really's going to ask me to sing. I can't. I don't want you to sing. I just want you to just literally, I just, I would really like you to just strum just literally a couple of chords for me. I'm not very good. I mean, I'm actually only like learning at the moment. So.

This is so beautiful. This is something I'm working on I'm not gonna start singing though I'm too nervous it's called the i-10 so it's um the i-10 is a freeway in la and the person that i'm dating at the moment we both lived in la at the same time we bumped into each other once but we never saw each other or spent any time together there it wasn't the right time and it's just was it was just kind of occurred to me like he's someone that feels very significant in my life now and just how interesting it is that a couple of years ago and we went through very similar experiences we were going through very turbulent times emotionally even though like everything from the exterior seemed fine and I just thought how fascinating it was that you know a couple of years ago we would have just

been driving past each other on the I-10 as like complete strangers so that's kind of what it's called yeah till that moment of destiny brings you together. What about the words, Kagi? What are the words to the I-10? So we go along hoping that the rain won't fall. Keep your distance because we've both been hurt before. Written pages of bodies on the floor. And then it says we both lived in L.A. You asked, have I been to Santa Fe and that you'd take me there one day but legend as the story goes this was many years ago the kingdom of New Mexico we'll drive through the old town and trying to find we'll try and find our way around we'll go to George's house and drive on down to the freeway like it was just yesterday because some things always stay the same and I picture it in the front seat of your car

we'll drive for miles and miles until we reach the Venice boulevard and I think about the way things were back then when we were just strangers passing each other on the i-10 oh that was scary Kagi you did it and I've got goosebumps but it's beautiful and so poetic and I cannot wait to hear that to those those beautiful chords that you've got I mean it's just gorgeous. Thank you. That's the first outing so you're putting it out there at the beginning of 2021 that getting that balance that north node balance. Thanks for making me do that. Well done you. Well, this is the thing.

I'm always like, I hate performing. I hate doing it. And then I do it. I'm like, I never want to stop. That is the perfect takeaway and the perfect place for us to say goodbye. It's been so amazing having you on Love Purpose Connection, Kagi. Thank you very much for having me i've absolutely loved it to find out more about kagi she's at kagi's world on instagram and her podcast saturn returns with kagi is on apple podcasts you can find me at estelle dot

bingham i'd love to know what you think of the show. I hope it's bringing you a little bit of joy in these particularly tough times. And of course, if you've enjoyed it, do rate, review, subscribe and share the love. This podcast is produced by Sarah Cudden with exec production from Kate Taylor. It's a Feast Collective production. Until the next one, wishing you all more love, purpose and connection. Thanks for listening to Estelle and I. What I loved about this conversation was how, you know, through working with Estelle for a number of years, whenever I see her, I think I want to talk about one thing and she'll always know what I really need to talk about.

And so I think pulling out the music from me was really interesting because it's not something that I speak about that often. It's something that I kind of think maybe I've just dropped. So yeah, I would be curious to know what it sparked for you whether you guys enjoyed this episode how you felt about me being interviewed for a change so yeah please send your feedback it is always welcome so I hope you enjoy this little change this week and we will be back as usual next week thank you so much for listening, and remember, you are not alone. Goodbye.