Saturn Returns with Caggie - 4.13 A Moment of Self Reflection: Solo Episode with Caggie

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

In the final episode of season 4, Caggie shares a distillation of her thoughts and the things that she has been experiencing recently. She talks about the trickery and trap of perfectionism, her struggles with procrastination, dismantling the internal critic, and how to release old belief systems and allow more self compassion. She also chats about relationships, how to find the balance of healthy interdependence and not self abandon, and how we can discern between intuition and past trauma through communication. --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. Hello everyone, this is the last episode of the season and because it's the last episode of the season, I thought it was appropriate to do a sort of roundup of the show and a solo episode again. Now, as we're preparing for the live show that we have in February, I've been also thinking about that. It's quite a big moment for us and the brand. And my thoughts at the moment are basically I must not forget my way with things I must not forget my why and as something evolves as a business evolves as Saturn returns has evolved you start attaching expectations to it it becomes pressurizing

and it can sometimes take you a little bit off course. And so to make sure that that didn't happen, I decided to go and take a trip down memory lane. And I started listening to some episodes at the beginning of the season, because of course, at that point, it was fresh. I didn't know what it was going to do. I didn't know if anyone was going to like it. I was really just doing it for myself, I guess, and to provide a little bit of solace for anyone who might find it interesting. The episode that I just listened back to was the one with Shona, which resonated with so many of you. It was around sex and relationships, but the themes were really applicable for any aspect of

life. And it was interesting listening back how I'm still navigating a lot of them. Now, the podcast has really served as a thing that holds me accountable in my own progression and in my own self-development. And as important as that is, it's also crucial to remain light. And I think a big part of me is this lightness to to be happy to be curious and that seems to have dimmed a little bit recently and maybe it's just seasonal because you know as winter comes I think it can bring up a lot of emotions and we can sort of become a bit more insular so I just thought I'd go back and reflect on everything that happened over the last year and a half and see where I'm at now and what I've managed to alchemize and perhaps what I'm working through. A couple of weeks ago, I got ill with COVID. It really took me down. I felt terrible for about two weeks.

two weeks. And with that, my entire structure disappeared. You know, I wasn't able to do the things that I usually do. My routine went out the window and then it kind of took, you know, another week of recovering. So still I felt like I'd lost my rhythm with things. This then started to impact the way I felt around work because I realized, you know, as someone that runs their own business, if I stop, everything stops. And then I had this irrational fear that everything would fall apart, that my whole sort of sense of self and worth and the world that I'm trying to create would just disintegrate, which of course wasn't a very realistic thing to think, but it was a fear that was actually coming up for me. And that was one thing that realistic thing to think but it was a fear that was actually coming up for me and that was one thing that I want to explore and talk about a little bit but another

thing that came up was something that I felt I'd done a lot of work around but still it raised its head and it was this internal voice this internal critic which I've realized is driven by perfectionism. Now, perfectionism is something that I never really considered myself to be, and I'm going to use the word suffering from, because I do think it can be hugely problematic, because I'm a very messy person. I'm very chaotic. I'm not good at organizing things. So I never really thought that I could be a perfectionist. However, I've come to realize that actually, perfectionism has been driving me at many points in my life. But it has also stopped me from

achieving a lot of things. And I had to come to the realization more recently that I needed to get rid of it. Perfectionism is essentially being driven by fear because usually it stems from the childhood experience that on some level we have picked up this idea that we have to be perfect in order to be worthy of being loved and being seen. And so this can drive us through life. And of course, in the world that we live in, being perfect is good. You know, we describe perfect as a very good attribute, even though it's something that's unobtainable. Especially if you look at it through the lens of social media, with the way that we can filter ourselves and curate this picture-perfect lifestyle, it constantly pushes this message that that is what we should be striving to achieve.

However, firstly, I want to acknowledge that it can be and has been in my life a useful tool. I know that completely contradicts what I'm actually saying, but whenever we realize we have a pattern of behavior that is no longer serving us, it's important to acknowledge that it has served us in the past. We create these infrastructures because they're a way of coping. So when you look back at your life and you think of the ways that you've gone about things, of how you've dealt with struggles, of how you've dealt with pain,

and realize that those things aren't serving you anymore be grateful that they existed and then say goodbye to them because it's not helpful chastising yourself or berating yourself for why they're there because they were there to help you but it doesn't mean that they're going to help you going forward so I had to look back and realize okay when was this perfectionism useful? As someone that was incredibly unanchored as a person and very extreme, very undisciplined, creating this internal critic in my mind was perhaps a necessary thing that needed to be there in order to keep me on some sort of straight path. But now it's not necessary. And when that voice started to

creep up again and get a little louder whilst I was recovering from COVID and, you know, that's a time when I really needed to be gentle on myself and I wasn't. I was being incredibly cruel and incredibly harsh. And I noticed this voice and I thought, oh, that familiar voice. You know, I've known it so long. I know it so well. And it's so mean, the things that it says. And so this time I decided, okay, what can I do differently? Usually it would kind of take me down. It would start controlling me.

It would create a very rigid infrastructure that I would then have to operate in again in order to get back onto this sort of idea of perfection. And instead I was like, okay, what can I do differently? Now I'm in a new relationship at the moment and I was with my partner at the time and I could feel that voice making me want to shut down. It was making me want to withdraw because it tells me that I'm not worthy of being seen when I'm like that. And so this time I decided instead to bring it to the table, to actually express what was going through my head, these thoughts that I was having,

these feelings that I've had for a very long time about myself that I thought I'd got rid of, but perhaps they were just at bay. And this was incredibly vulnerable for me because essentially it was admitting an imperfection. It was admitting a flaw that I have in myself, or that's how I viewed it anyway. And as someone that seeks perfection in themselves, this felt very odd. It felt very unfamiliar. And it was fortunately met very well with a lot of grace and a lot of kindness. And immediately it diffused so much of those thoughts. And I decided instead of letting this voice continue to drive me, I was like, okay, we're going to give it a totally different voice. We're going to put a totally different voice in your head. And when usually I would be

saying, you don't deserve love. You don't deserve these things. You look this way, you are this way. I fed it positivity and I fed it love. And again, this felt very uncomfortable. And I actually chose to look at myself in the mirror and tell my body I loved it and there's this practice that I do and I talk about this a lot is I put my hands over each part of my body and I say I love you and I and I mean it and I I fuel it with that light and that love and it has a really profound effect because it changes the way I view myself. I'm not saying that it's completely gone but I'm creating a new neural pathway for myself to do things a little differently. What I also realized about perfectionism is how it cannot coexist with intimacy.

By this I mean I think my perfectionism has taken me away from situations that have felt too vulnerable or exposed. For instance, the one I just described to you, when I've been in relationships sometimes in the past and I feel like perhaps I've self-abandoned or I'm not liking the way I'm behaving or something, I can just leave. My perfectionism tells me this isn't the right relationship. This isn't perfect. This has conflict. We don't want conflict. There's something further down the road that is better, that just doesn't have any of these struggles that you're experiencing. I've done this with every aspect of my life.

I think that's why I moved countries so many times. I think that's probably why I've changed careers many times. And I think that's why I've changed relationships so many times. But I'm realizing that perfection doesn't exist. It doesn't exist in ourselves and it doesn't exist in relationships and it doesn't exist in life. The trickery of when that is the driving force is our ego doesn't want to admit that it doesn't exist. So this thing that it's telling you you can achieve, it keeps and striving for and the goalpost keeps getting further away so let's apply it to the way you feel about the way you look this voice in your head starts saying when you weigh this amount and your hair's like this

and you look like this then we'll be happy then we'll be worthy of being loved then we'll have the relationship then we'll have the career then we'll be happy. Then we'll be worthy of being loved. Then we'll have the relationship. Then we'll have the career. Then we'll have the place that we live in that we love. Then we'll have the friendship group. That's when we'll be deserving of happiness. And so you get the gym membership, you buy the makeup, you go to the hairdresser, you start doing all these things thinking that it will get to that end point. But as you do, you start to feel a sense of achievement because that voice in your head is congratulating you. You've lost a little bit of weight. You've got your head on.

You're looking more like the thing I think you should look like. But what it doesn't tell you is that essentially that is a lie because you can never get to that destination point of happiness by trying to strive for something outside of yourself. It's just creating more of a facade. But it doesn't want you to know that, of course, so it just creates more. You lose the weight you wanted to lose and then it goes we think you should lose a little bit more or you get the job that you wanted to get and it's like but now we need a promotion you find someone that you think is great but they're not great enough and so we continue now when I spoke to Mo Gowda, we spoke about this concept of happiness and the hedonic treadmill. And I'm guilty of being on it, even though I am aware of it.

And this, again, is why I took this trip down memory lane today and have done recently and will continue to do it over the next couple of days. I want to remember where I was, not just agonize over where I'm going, to take the time to appreciate what I have achieved, what I have learned, what I've experienced, and what I've healed from, rather than just being focusing on what more there is to gain. on what more there is to gain. When I listened back to this episode with Shona, I could hear in my voice the self-awareness that I had at that moment in time. I could feel what I just experienced. It was really interesting actually. And it's kind of like when you look back and read diaries from when you were little and you remember what was going on and how you felt and that's why I you know my diaries are my most precious possessions because of that very reason and so having the ability to have this catalogue of conversations is so amazing

because when I listened back I was like oh yeah and the themes we were talking about about self abandonment specifically in relationships is something I also want to touch on here because it is still very built into me and my psyche of self-abandoning when I'm in partnership. And so how I'm navigating that at the moment has been very tricky

because I oscillate between codependency and independence rather than healthy interdependence. And this has nothing to do with the person that I'm with. It's completely my own stuff. But I realized how I rarely ask myself what I want. And I rarely communicate what I need historically. So I would encourage you guys to consider that. Because we're very quick to put ourselves in victimhood mentality, to blame society. And I'm not saying that it's not society's fault. I think that there's a

lot of programming we experience that makes us feel this way but the whole concept of Saturn returns is not about blaming it's about taking responsibility it's how can I do things differently now with the tools and the self-awareness I have available so ask yourself what you want Ask yourself what you want, not what someone else wants from you, not what society wants from you. What do you want? And more crucially, what do you need? And be really honest with yourself about that. We readily abandon our needs when faced with the opportunity of love or at least I do and over the last year I have navigated my way through relationship situations where someone has come along I felt sort of intensity about them and I have been willing I you know I admit I'm ashamed to admit I have been willing to give up a lot of myself give up a lot of the things that I have been willing, I admit, I'm ashamed to admit, I have been willing to give up a lot of myself, give up a lot of the things that I have cultivated and the things that I really value.

Fortunately, those things didn't work out. But I have to acknowledge that that wasn't because I necessarily stepped away and go this isn't meeting my needs but now retrospectively I realize how how on autopilot I was about abandoning my needs one thing that I've learned in relationship is that we really like to attach ourselves into this idea of rightness and wrongness, of good and bad, of victim and perpetrator. But I've realized that we are always both. We possess both within us and we act out both in relationship. In the demise of something, we attach the shortcomings of the relationship onto the other person. We speak to our friends about why they didn't satisfy us what they did wrong rarely looking at ourselves in the process

we also like this idea of someone being better you're too good for them or they're too good for me. But actually the nuances and the subtle details of why we match with someone, why we're drawn to them, are often beyond our comprehension and completely unique to the individual. I connected, as you know, with Mark Groves on this show, an idol of mine, and I'm very grateful that I can now call

him a friend and he has helped me so much without even knowing it over the years just by listening to his podcast but actually being able to have the conversation I had with him at that moment opened my eyes to so many things he very kindly offered me one of his courses. It was Dating 101, I believe. He has a breakup course in Dating 101. I think he might have a few others. But of course, I was super happy to do it. And, you know, Mark Groves being my teacher every week was heaven. It's like being back at school, school for love. And part of it was that I couldn't date anyone whilst I was doing it, which was, you know, fine by me. I wasn't dating anyone at that moment in time anyway. And I wasn't even really interested. I had kind of got my head in the space of,

I actually don't know whether I want a relationship. I don't know whether I want the conventional things that society is kind of pressurizing me to want. And that's another thing that I'll get into later. But anyway, I did this course. It was so interesting. It was so fascinating. I highly recommend you guys taking it because it's all the things we should have learned at school and never did. And we just learned them by getting our hearts broken and getting in the arena and getting it wrong. And so actually having this information was so interesting and useful and really made me look at things slightly differently. But one of the main takeaways, as well as exploring love languages and attachment theory and all the crucial stuff stuff was this idea of nervous

system work which I'd never really considered to be that important when it comes to matters of the heart however if you think about it our nervous system is reacting to people all the time but we often equate anxiety and a feeling of nervousness and discomfort as a thing of attraction. One experience I have had in the last couple of years is someone that I was very drawn to, but whenever I was in their presence or afterwards, I felt not myself. I felt like I was an anxious version. My nervous system was responding to something in quite a negative way, but because I was so attracted to them, I sort of, I didn't even dismiss this, but I thought of it as something that was good. I thought of it that was something that meant we had a really strong

connection. But when I did this work in this course, I realized that actually my body was picking up on something that was essentially sending an alarm bell. Sometimes people work this stuff out on their own and then they end up going for someone that doesn't cause that effect. But what I'm interested to explore and have explored and to tell you about is the sort of the happy middle point or good butterflies I like to call them. When you meet someone and your nervous system responds to them in a way that makes you feel totally lit up, like you become a magnetic version of yourself. I started to pay attention to those interactions and I met someone. And as soon as I met them and we started talking, there was an energy that was being reciprocated and I paid attention to it on

my nervous system. And I felt how I felt afterwards. I felt very magnetic. I felt very alive, but I also felt very safe. I felt very grounded and I felt very myself. And I knew that that was what I needed to lean into because we have to remember as much as we pay a huge amount of attention to our minds and what's going on in our heads, that's really just a small piece of the puzzle. The bodies talk, they talk with each other and they pick up on things that aren't apparent in your mind. Not yet anyway. Another thing that I listened back on recently was this idea of we all have intuition hit differently. And I think this is really important because we speak a lot in this

podcast about intuition and what that means and how it's so important but if you've not really accessed it and you don't really know how it's quite tricky so the human design episode is quite interesting into learning how how your specific intuition might work for you so I encourage you to look that up but also just to pay attention to it in a physical sense and so a lesson for me over the last couple of years is really homing into that homing into my intuitive hits but equally one thing that I'm navigating is when is it past trauma and when is it intuition? As we get a little older and we have a lot of experiences under our belt, specifically with matters of the heart, it's hard not to feel a little jaded sometimes. It's hard to go into things completely open and unguarded and sometimes it's wise to be a little

bit guarded but not when it's pulling you away from intimacy not when it's pulling you away from love I have found myself withdrawing from situations because of the past because when something might happen and it can be a tiny little thing, and we all have experienced this, something very small, but it triggers a response in us. An alarm bell goes off in our head

and that voice kicks in and says, last time you were this vulnerable with someone, look what happened. And it makes you want to run. It makes you want to shut down. It makes you want to build up makes you want to shut down it makes you want to build up those walls and not let this person in I know how challenging that can be because I know how painful it is to have your heart broken especially when you never saw it coming but that is the beauty in the paradox of love, is that all things run even,

and with the reward there is risk, with love there is the possibility of pain, and we have to have the courage to lean in, how do we do this, and how do we discern between what is past trauma, and what is intuition, do we discern between what is past trauma and what is intuition? We communicate. Again, something that I am learning at the moment and that I don't find particularly easy, even though I am a podcast host and I like to think I'm all right in conversation. When it comes to the intimacy between you and one other person in relationship, that kind of communication is challenging. It's how we navigate conflict. It's not about not having conflict. It's how we navigate it. And being able to communicate what is yours to

your partner and remembering that the container between you, where the love exists, it's something that you're building and nurturing together. Trust doesn't have to be given immediately when we meet someone. It's something that's earned over time. So if you're going through something like this at the moment, I think it's important to take a little bit of time. at the moment I think it's important to take a little bit of time if you need to take a step back just so you can really allow things to land because we tend to well I and I'm sure many of you listening have a default setting that is essentially I feel like this person's gonna hurt me or this has happened and therefore that means that and we create this whole story and we then make them responsible for how we feel so we might start spinning out about a story we've told ourselves but we're blaming them for how we feel but actually

we're making ourselves feel that way we're responsible for it so you've got to really be conscious and catch your stories before before spiral with them. And I find this tremendously hard because once my stories start, they can take off. And this has happened to me recently. But I have learned instead, after a little bit of spiraling, I might add, to bring this to the table, to bring this to the container of the relationship Brene Brown talks about this in a really interesting and clever way rather than saying you did this and you made me feel this way or you did that and therefore this is why I'm behaving like this you take a deep breath and you approach it with calmness and kindness and you say,

when this happened, the story I'm telling myself about it is this. So you're taking ownership over the fact that you are essentially taking small pieces of information and creating a whole storyboard with them that may be completely untrue there might be some truth in it and I'm not saying that there isn't but just hold the possibility of both you will be surprised by how much you're able to see between the two with the person's response if If you literally have eye contact with them and you're in like a neutral safe space, allow them to show up. If you're meeting them with a high intensity conflict, the likelihood is as human beings, we get defensive. But if you show up and you say, this is the story I'm telling myself, what can people do with that?

And usually what happens is they want to make you feel seen to reassure you that it's not true. And if there is some truth in it, that's the best invitation for them to be honest about it. Because again, you're diffusing the conflict. Because again, you're diffusing the conflict. We have to remember that essentially, even though we are the center of our own universes, so is everybody else. And we all struggle with navigating intimacy. We all have our own fears of rejection, being vulnerable, being seen. We have to be gentle with each other in this process and understanding and hold space for each other in the healing because healing comes

in relationship. That is the beautiful part of it. As we become more consciously aware and we do this work, it feels in a way like it's harder. It feels like there's more stuff and that's definitely for me how I felt. But I guess, you know, dating in my early 20s, I didn't really have much self-awareness, so I didn't know any differently. But as I step in, little by little, I realize that perhaps I don't need to be afraid. I think the key is as well, is the dance between stepping in, co-creating, but then maintaining a sense of self that's independent from the relationship. Again, I wish I had all the answers for this piece. And I mentioned it it earlier you just have to question and be honest

with what you want and what you need because how often do we actually communicate that to our partners because we're fearful of them maybe rejecting us or not liking what we have to say but inevitably we create resentment by not being honest at the beginning about what we want and what we need. And this goes both ways. It's not gender specific. But because we find it so uncomfortable, we don't do it. We just kind of go along with playing into a certain role. And then months down the line, when you realize that that's not the role you want to be you have to say something so I think it's important to start to learn to do things a little

differently and by that I mean communicating these things very much from the offset another thing that I have been reminded of recently, and again, it was something that we covered in the episode with Shona, was this thing about procrastination. I sort of make jokes about it with the people in my life and what I uncovered is that it is essentially a self sabotaging thing. I guess it wouldn't actually be too separate from this idea of perfection because when you're striving for something that's not accessible or obtainable one would tend to procrastinate about achieving it but it means that I actually cause myself a lot of unnecessary pain and discomfort and anguish because I then feel like I'm in a stagnant place so if this is something that resonates with you I really

empathize because struggling with procrastination when it can be as debilitating as it is for me sometimes can be really really challenging I think this time of year always offers a bit of a self-reflection moment in time and you know a lot of what I'm talking about and we discuss in the podcast in general not just today is reflecting on the patterns of behavior that we've had addressing them healing them progressing into the future but again it's very much in this has to be better I have to be better I have to progress everything has to keep getting more it's really the same thing as the hedonic treadmill, but we're just using it as self-development.

I'm trying to accept that life and we are seasonal, that we can't be excelling all the time, that we can't be progressing all the time. I think as we're in winter now, it's quite a nice time to self-reflect, to hibernate a little bit, to consider everything you've achieved, to be grateful and to alchemise your experiences so far so that in the new year you can start consolidating them. so that in the new year, you can start consolidating them. To go one step further on the self-reflection piece, I had a conversation with my team, with Nora, the astrologer for Saturn Returns, and we were discussing the other astrological transits that we experience.

A lot of you guys message me saying things like, can I be going through my Saturn returns early? Or have I missed it because I'm too late? Saturn returns is really just one focal point that I've made the podcast around because it was such a key transition for me. But we don't delve into too much but we shall about what happens before about your saturn squares about your progressed lunar return and so me and nora have decided that for the live shows we will be exploring these themes and these transits not only so you can self-reflect, but so you can realize that your past version can be a spirit guide for your future self. The reason I think it's important to do this and to take self-reflecting one step further is because I definitely spent a large part of my life

with a lot of shame, carrying a lot of shame for the decisions I've made, for a past version of me. And this is something that I'm only just resolving. But through speaking with Nora and through the lens of astrology, I realized how all those moments and all those decisions were so crucial in crafting the version of myself I am today and for that I am grateful. So I figured that that would be a nice takeaway. I know that you guys listen to this show because you are interested in self-development, in your own personal growth, in exploring your spiritual path and I always try and empower you guys to realize that you are all you need in a world that constantly sells us and tells us that happiness is outside of ourselves in a

destination point we may never quite reach it's almost revolutionary to think happiness is where I am right now. So if you can, find some space today or tomorrow or whenever it might be to just sit with yourself, to feel what you are feeling. Perhaps you've journaled over what you've achieved in the last year or two, all the obstacles you've overcome, and tell yourself happiness is where I am right now. Because as someone who has journeyed as far and wide as possible to try and find it, I'm constantly being reminded of this.

The challenge is to dream for more but be content with less. So over the Christmas holidays, this is what I'm more but be content with less. So over the Christmas holidays this is what I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be journeying and self-reflecting but not to chastise myself or berate myself but to acknowledge all that I've achieved and how far I've come. This is not to say I'm not going to be planning for next year and thinking about the future but I'm not going to agonize over it either I think recently I have been it was speaking to a friend this morning actually who was very close to me when I was living in LA and he said I'm so proud of you and everything you're doing and it felt uncomfortable because I guess I didn't feel proud

of myself at that moment in time I've just been in this headspace of what do I have to do next? How do I continue to grow? What if it doesn't work? What if I'm not good enough? Rather than acknowledging that I have a seat at the table, I just question whether I'm worthy of being there. Christmas can be a very challenging time for many people. As we go back to our families, there can be a lot of triggers. It's also a tricky time in terms of people are just spending a lot of money and everything can feel very chaotic and ungrounded. We often tend to revert to bad habits of behavior, which may involve drinking or overeating or all the things that we associate Christmas with. So just take a moment before we dive into this season to think about what you actually want to

do this time around. Perhaps you want to do it a little differently. Perhaps you want to nurture yourself instead. How do you want to arrive into 2022? These are all things I invite you to consider. There's no right or wrong way. And as I said at the beginning of this podcast, our behavior does tend to repeat itself until the lesson is learned. Creating a new neural pathway isn't easy. And if you want to explore that theme a little more, you can listen to my episode with Tara Schwart on neuroplasticity.

But this is one thing that I really want to do. And I let this episode hold me accountable in this process. To try and be just where I am right now. To remind myself of the why behind what I do, and to be grateful for every experience, every challenge, every triumph, and not agonize over what's next. Because the truth is, we never really know. This brings me to, I guess, a final point of some of the distillations of my thoughts.

There's this need to control. And as I'm saying all this, the perfectionism and control probably feel like one of the same to a degree. If I'm perfect, I feel like I'm in control. And both are an illusion. We cannot control anything, really. We like to think we can, but life is always going to surprise us. And the truth is the real beauty of life is when it does. It's in the unexpected encounters, meetings. That's when we really feel our most alive. So if you're feeling a little unsure of the direction you're going in, trust me when I say you don't have to have it all figured out. Sometimes you just have to let go and leave it up to the universe. Get out of your head, tap into your body,

allow your body to guide you, allow your intuition to speak to you. And remember, you are seasonal. You don't have to be blossoming all the time. I hope this finds you well wherever you are. And I would like to say a big thank you to each and every one of you who listens. All of you who have shared it with a friend. This podcast has really grown organically and that's such a magical thing. And again, rather than just focusing on how do I make it bigger,

I want to acknowledge where it is right now and that's down to each and every one of you. You have been friends from afar to me and I hope I have been a friend to you too. Building this community has been one of the most wonderful experiences of my life. It's allowed me to be my most authentic and vulnerable self. And the fact that I may have encouraged one or two of you to do the same is a complete privilege.

So thank you. I wish you all a Merry Christmas. And I cannot wait to begin a new year with you all as well. Sending love wherever you are. Thank you for listening to this episode. I hope it resonated with some of you and if you feel you have a friend that might benefit from it please do send on as always the show has developed very organically and through being shared by like-minded people and I hope we continue to grow that way this is the end of season four so it's a bittersweet episode but do not worry we will be back with a new series soon

enough and feel free to listen back to previous episodes during the break you can follow me at kaggy's world to keep in touch and you can follow the podcast at saturn returns co i would also really appreciate it if you could follow the show and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts because this helps us get in the ears of more like-minded people. Saturn Returns is a Feast Collective production. The producer is Hannah Varel and the executive producer is Kate Taylor. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, you are not alone. Until next time, goodbye.