Saturn Returns with Caggie - 5.2 Celestial Wonder with Amber Mark

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

In this episode of Saturn Returns, Amber Mark, American singer, songwriter, and producer joins Caggie. Amber's multifaceted style implements sounds from hip hop, R&B, soul, and bossa nova and she was nominated for "Best Engineered Album" at the 61st Annual Grammy Awards. Amber was brought up in a Buddhist monastery in Darjeeling, India which gave her a unique relationship with spirituality from a young age. Amber discusses her creative process as a musician, her influences growing up as well as delving into the vastness of the Universe and her influences of space and time, quantum physics, numerology and other dimensional fields. Caggie and Amber explore the connection between Spirituality and Science and how they are closely linked and how this has impacted her in her work as an artist. Amber released her debut album, 3:33am in May 2017 and her latest album Three Dimensions Deep is out now.  --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. People always put science and spirituality on like opposite ends of the spectrum. Really like they feel so similar to me and like they're really describing the same thing except expressing it in a different way. Today I am joined by the artist Amber Mark, a Grammy-nominated singer, songwriter and producer. Her sound is a unique fusion of alternative R&B, soul and bossa nova. I first came across Amber when I was living in LA and I discovered a track of hers called Monsoon which really soundtracked my time there. It's one of those songs that I played over and over again and I didn't know what it meant or what it was about but I knew that it evoked an emotion in me.

As we discuss in this episode the song came following the death of her mother and so it's no surprise that the song is so heartfelt. We talk in depth about Amber's process as an artist and dive into how when creativity becomes business you have to negotiate that process with other forces. Amber was brought up in a Buddhist monastery in Tajiling, India. She therefore has a very unique relationship with spirituality and as you'll hear she has had a few brushes with the universe which I found totally fascinating. Amber is a big thinker and it was so good to talk to someone who really is in tune with their own place in time and space. We cover some big topics such as quantum physics, numerology but also grief and heartbreak. I'm very excited for you to hear this conversation.

It's definitely helped me remember my own insignificance in the vast universe, which I find a very grounding and humbling thing. Before we get into this, let's check back in with our astrological guide, Nora. How do we achieve that ever so elusive idea of perfection? Looking at it astrologically, it certainly isn't Saturn producing the desire for perfection, for Saturn is more focused in helping us achieve balance and inner wisdom. However, in our younger years, before Saturn has a chance to come full circle at our first Saturn return, we can feel the effects of it in the way of self-doubt and self-criticism.

As we know by now, Saturn represents among many things authority and the way that society's ideals have been imprinted on our subconscious minds from a very young age. have been imprinted on our subconscious minds from a very young age. This self-doubt is a Saturnian quality that suggests our own authority, or rather our voice of authority, hasn't completely been developed yet, which in turn disempowers us. So how do we relate to this perfection, or rather, the idea that we think perfection is. When we doubt ourselves and our self-esteem isn't at the level it can be, we remain imprisoned by the gaze of others, the opinion of critics, and the permission of those we regard as authority figures. However, when we realize at the age of maturity and independence that we are indeed living in a prison of expectations and internalized self-denial, we are finally able to let go of the idea of perfection and expectations

and become liberated by our expression of authenticity and authority. And that's what Saturn teaches us. To rise above the self-doubt, the gaze and shackles of expectations, and to walk our path with confidence, authority and discipline, after which we are finally able to unleash this brilliance we all possess. You're in New York. Whereabouts in New York are you? I'm in Manhattan, New York. I'm in the West Village.

I just got back into the city from London, actually. Oh, yeah? Yeah. What were you doing here? I was doing a bunch of like promo and press and stuff like that. I actually went initially for, the owner of my label was getting married.

So I went to his wedding, which was really sweet. And then I stayed for some photo shoots and stuff like that and did a little like fan event and all that was so nice to be back in London again do you like London yeah it's so beautiful it reminds me a lot of New York I feel like New York is like London on steroids or something mostly yeah so I actually prefer London's like architecture more it's older it has more of this like classic feel to it and stuff like that so but New York's got this energy about it that's just yeah it's insane but I mean I I was actually just saying to your manager before I lived in New York a while a long time ago longer ago than I cared to admit and it was amazing but I barely remember

being there it was like that wild like honestly sometimes I bump into people and they're like we hung out in New York I'm like did we I don't know I guess so because we had fun yeah I can get pretty intense I honestly have not been going out at all even before COVID happened I was like became such an introvert I think just because I was writing a lot of music and stuff like that but I'm like starting now that the album's kind of done I mean everyone's coming back to life you know I'm like trying to like inch my way out there again like like where are the cool spots hey guys remember me so well let's just bring it back for a second because for the audience that doesn't know could you explain a little bit about

who you are as an artist um yeah I mean I'm a singer songwriter producer 27 years old now like 27 years starting your session um yes exactly and um I've been doing this professionally for I think like three years now four years now and it must be longer than that because I remember monsoon came out when I oh my god five years yeah that song was like a major song for me and it was when I yeah when I moved to LA and I must have found it on like a blog or something but it was just there was something that really captivated me about it and after like reading about you and researching you it was very interesting to listen to it again with the understanding of what that song was about and what it represented because obviously

when I heard it like it was just it evoked something in me but I didn't know the context of yeah what it was so would you be able to tell us a little bit about that process and that story yeah I mean that whole EP I had just lost my mom and was kind of going through that she passed away in 2013 and I was kind of I knew I always wanted to do music but then put that all aside when she was really sick because I was taking care of her and all that stuff. But after she passed, I think I was going to like grievance counseling and all that stuff. And, and it never like really was working. I don't know. It just wasn't, I didn't like feel like I was processing it well or getting through. Obviously it takes time to, you know, get through those things. But I think the first time, like, I really started to feel like, oh, this was a release was when I like started just writing music about it or just writing about it. And that's kind of what ignited that whole process. And I was working at a record label at the time and like, I wanted to be in music anyway. And so I kind of was like just starting to write songs here and there. And then I would tell people I was a singer and they'd be like, where can I hear your stuff?

And I didn't have anything. I would just feel like I could sing for you right now. But so I would you? No, sometimes I would normally I said it just like a joke, but some people would be like, okay. And then I would sing for them, but I wanted to like, actually be able to like, show them something, like show them a finished piece or something. And I had already been writing all these songs and trying to work with producers. And it ended up with people I worked with that just like really didn't get the sound I was going for.

And so I kind of like was like, okay, maybe I should try to learn how to do this on my own. And like, luckily I had learned a lot from the producers I worked with and felt like maybe I could just do this for myself. Like I know what I want. And so that kind of ignited me just working in my bedroom and finishing these songs on my own. And that's when I felt the most proud of them and the most like, this is what I'm going for. And then Space was the first song I ever put out on SoundCloud.

One thing led to another through that. And I had then already written Monsoon. And people started getting involved and management, the label started you know and Monsoon was like when I wrote that song it was like I knew what the album was going to be about through writing that song that song felt like such a it was weird because all the other songs I had written on that EP I was trying to make it so that like people could really connect with them so like let me generalize this a little bit more whereas with monsoon it was like this song is to my mom it's for my mom i'm gonna have my mom's voice in it i'm gonna try to like describe who she is through sound

and that was what monsoon was you know which is so interesting because that's the one that connected to me the most yeah and people like still to this day I get so many messages about monsoon like and so it's like it's kind of crazy to me that that's the one like from that album that people really connect to because not that it wasn't the goal like I'm really happy it's the goal but like when I wrote it I was like okay this is for you mom like I don't know but I'm really happy that album that EP I think is probably going to be forever the most like meaningful well I think it shows that actually when it, it's the place that it comes from that connects with people

as opposed to when you're trying to do something to gain an audience or connect with people. No, totally. Would you, do you think you would have pursued music as much as you have if it wasn't for those experiences? I probably would have. It would have been a very different, I think it would have been a different path

I would have taken. I've always been interested like in garage. I was on GarageBand, which is like a... Yeah, I know GarageBand. I was on that, like, it's like the kindergarten version of Logic. I was on it when I was like in third grade, like we had this computer class

and it was like the big, thick, like colored Macs and like could use iMovie, text edit or garage band. Those were like the things you could do in that class for an hour. I would always go into garage band and be like, Oh, I'm going to make a beat. Like, and I just like use like the little Apple loops and like make all these little like songs with them. So I've always kind of been like interested in that world. I never thought till I was in interested in that world I never thought

till I was in high school that I would actually pursue it and I never thought I would be a producer I thought I would just be like a singer um that's very unusual yeah I didn't think I would go down that path just because of the fact that people weren't really getting what I was going for I don't know I think I'm also quite like a micromanager I tend to like like I want to be involved in directing the videos I like want to be involved like and I'm like I have to be involved in like every part of it like I've worked with directors and I'm like we're going to co-direct this and they're like yeah and they like think they're going to be like in the editing room by themselves and I'm like hey I'm like pulling up I'm like hey here to edit with you guys um but well that's good because you have a

strong vision for who you are and what you want to say yeah I just feel like it's happened where I've let people do that thing for me and then it's just like especially with my visuals and it like has not worked out so like I'm with this album and the songs that I've been putting out this year it's like I just need to be involved in like every aspect of it. Cause what are your musical influences and where did they come from? Cause your mom influenced you quite a lot with some of her taste in music. A thousand percent. I think for a lot of people,

like it's like, we don't even realize it. It's like a subconscious thing that like what you listen to when you're a kid really affects how you hear things today. But yeah, so my mom was always listening to like Sade, Stevie Wonder, like ABBA uh there's this guy Prem Joshua who's not very well known but was like a huge part of an influence for me especially with the first EP because like she would play him all the time when we lived in India and he did this perfect hybrid of in India like you know if you're from Europe or from anywhere else but India like America Europe

normally they call like Westerners so he would do this perfect hybrid of like Western music but also classical Indian it had beautiful melding sound to it so that was a huge influence on the first EP and still to this day because like I always love those sounds and there's quite a lot of like Brazilian influence isn't there yes there is I mean my mom was obsessed with um Joao I feel like I'm totally butchering the name when I say it but Joao Jupin I don't know if I said that right but um yeah she was really she loved him a lot and that's again we would when we were like it's a lot of the things that i would listen to when we were living in northern india and we were like my mom wanted to go to this monastery there because she was an artist a painter and she would do traditional tibetan

artwork which is called tanka painting and so we went she had been to india before but we went back to india it was my first time as a kid so that she could further her studies. And so I was homeschooled there while we were living in this like Tibetan Buddhist monastery, you know, an hour away from Darjeeling. And we'd always play Ella Fitzgerald, Stevie Wonder, Earth, Wind & Fire, and then Sade. Like Ella Fitzgerald is who got me really singing

because I would always try to sing like her. She was amazing. And then you had like Joao Gilberto there was this like album he did with Stan Getz and we were always listening to that and so that was always a huge influence on me because I just loved the way people sounded singing in Portuguese it was like this milky sound I've incorporated all I think it's like really a lot of what my mom showed me as a kid and what I still love to this day so with Conexão which clearly that's a Portuguese word which means connection I wanted to really dive into this whole like bossa nova world that I was always so in love with but I

always try to do it in a way that's not it's not like okay I'm just like I'm gonna make a bossa nova album I like try to do it where like you I just like kind of trickle it in there a little bit or accent it I and I say all these people but I'm like Michael Jackson huge influence on me and I'm like I don't know if I really it can be it can be it can be a limiting thing to say but I just noticed that there was that was those influences and I was curious what your mum paid you and stuff like that because they totally believe that to be true when you come to structuring a song are you um do you remain quite free with it because I think that's probably one of the things I noticed about you as an artist it feels like you aren't formulating it into a traditional like pop architecture what is the process usually like

for the most part I have to be inspired sometimes I can like force myself to like get it you know sit down and once I'm at the computer I'm like okay I'm feeling it but for the most part I definitely like need to be feeling something I just need to like have an idea in my head or like a melody in my head so like I'll normally go to like my voice memos because sometimes I'll like just sing things into there and like I'll melody in my head. So like, I'll normally go to like my voice memos, because sometimes I'll like just sing things into there. Like if I'm like, okay, I want to write a song today and I don't have an idea, I'll just like scroll through that sometimes. But yeah, I sit down at the computer, plug it in. Normally I'll start on the keys. I like try to come up with a basic beat. It doesn't have to be full on or anything like that. It can literally just be like

a chord progression, but it takes me a while. so that process like will take up a lot of the time of the day and then once I get to a point where I'm like okay this feels good or this sounds good then I'll start singing gibberish into a microphone literally just like not words it's like just trying to come up with melodies that I hear sometimes if I have a lyric idea or a title idea I'll try to incorporate that then sometimes I do think about a pop formula where I'm like oh maybe I should do the like typical verse pre-chorus verse pre-chorus thing but honestly that's always kind of changing like I feel like songs are getting shorter and shorter I've noticed really well because the 10 people's attention span is as well yeah exactly I think that's what it is because

it's like I don't know I think about when I first started professionally making music it was like and even before that it was like three minutes and 30 seconds that's how long the song is now it's like two minutes and 30 seconds and if you go over that it's five but like ideally for radio if you want to make it two minutes and 30 seconds does that change the way you approach music do you think yes and no because like I don't I don't really think about those obviously I think about it while I'm writing but then if it's not feeling good to me then I'm like whatever there's a song on the album that's like five minutes I got it down to four minutes and 40 seconds but it was really hard for me because it's like every part and it doesn't feel like it's that long to me like I didn't even realize it till the label pointed it out and i was like oh you're

right it is like that long and then but i'm kind of like it's an album track so it's like whatever but then now it's such a good song and we're all talking about it and they're like the single potential of it and so oh it's gonna be released as a single maybe we don't know we're trying to figure that out now but I wanted to be released as a single but I do understand that a four minute 40 second song as a single is really tough to like sell essentially so it's like I really I do appreciate the label when it comes to the business side of things because they do have a point so I always try to take those things into consideration. Does it affect like how I write?

Not necessarily because like I always save those conversations for after the song is done. I just go based off what I'm feeling. And then once the song is finished, I can reassess those thoughts and those concerns, you know. In terms of having like a very strong vision idea of who you are has that always been the case and how easy or hard was it to find the team around you that you have now like the management the label because obviously in the music industry a lot of people are going to be telling you who you are a lot of the time and like what kind of music you should be putting out

and what to do and what to look like so how did you navigate that space you know as a young woman oh my god I mean management came on pretty early on and management's always very much been they're always like they're there for you I mean at least for me my experience because I know people have had bad experiences but so far so good for me the conversation we had prior that I was telling you about prior, it's like gets a little tough in those situations because they are coming at it from a numbers and a very business side of things and like what they think will sell. I mean, and there really isn't a true answer of that.

Who really knows what's going to sell? Like the amount of time artists have put out songs and like singles and like, this is the one. And then like something randomly on the album is like, what pops off, you but 2019 like I was quite rough between like label and I just because I think we weren't really agreeing on like what was the right direction to go and like what were the options it was just more so that songs that they liked I didn't like and songs that I liked they just felt like weren't big enough or weren't going to be they weren't't going to hit, you know what I mean? And in the lockdown, it kind of allowed me to just be like, Oh, I'm going to make a beat today. And I'll just make like a stupid little like Instagram video

and just post it on Instagram and see what happens. And like, people loved that. And then like the label was like, Oh my God, people are freaking out about this stuff. We have to put it out on streaming. And I was like, thank you guys. You touched on this a second ago in terms of like wanting things to be perfect. And I think you work in quite a similar way to the way mine works in terms of whatever artistic or creative projects I put out. I kind of in a way can over complicate it but I'll like modulize things I'm like this is the theme and this is this and this means that and sometimes it's sometimes it really works but sometimes I think I'm like what is she talking about and it

could and it can create a bit of a trap for myself because I won't finish things or I won't put things out because I'm like I've created the spider web that I'm yeah yeah so how important is that to you in terms of your process like is that just quite an innate thing and does it mean as much in the ending as it does in the beginning it I think it's very important for me like I think it's very important for me. Like, I think it's very important for me myself in order to understand what direction I'm going with like my project and stuff like that. Do I think it's important for the listener to know? No. Like I definitely try to make it so that the music itself is what people really connect with. And like, it can

have a whole other meaning than what I intended it to mean for someone but as long as they connect with it like on an emotional level that's kind of the goal for me at the end of the day lyrically it deals with these everyday issues of like insecurity that I think we all deal with like am I good enough like I really you know I have a really hard time in sessions which is another reason why I produce on my own because I get really bad anxiety going into sessions like how I I don't know I I think because I'm so slow and like I said I don't really know how to play very many instruments so I'll go to a session with like writers and producers and they're so fast and like especially in LA and I think at the American way it's like get 20 people in a room oh my god the idea of getting 20 people in a room like I would literally be in the corner just like sweating like I could not handle that but yeah so it's really intimidating for me and like

I'll go in and be like wow I'm like really the weakest thing here. Like, because we all, we're our own worst critics. We always like, we just always think we're like, so not, we never can give up. And then once you get in your own head though, it can be a sort of a spiral, a descending spiral. Totally. So that's what started this album. That's how it started.

Right. And then like, I never knew what I wanted the album to be about or anything. It always just comes to me kind of towards the end. Like I wanted the album to be about or anything it always just comes to me kind of towards the end like I put the pieces together yeah in terms of like the lyrical content because you know you some of the stuff that you've put out in the past is to do with love and then you've explored grief I was actually speaking with someone recently who is a songwriter who's a friend of mine and a producer.

And he was just like, he kind of poked holes in the, in the main narrative that most people put out, which is heartbreak. Yeah. He was like, everyone is doing that. What else do you have to say?

Was it a conscious decision to write more, I guess, abstract than perhaps in the past? Yeah. No, I mean, with this album, it's kind of crazy. I'm going to sound crazy when I guess, abstract than perhaps in the past? Yeah, no. I mean, with this album, it's kind of crazy. I'm going to sound crazy when I say this. But I dive into, like, there's a little bit of, like, quantum physics involved and just, like,

trying to understand, like, what we are doing on a muddy rock in the middle of the universe and, like, what matter is. So it's a lot of questioning of that. And it really dives into this, like this sci-fi kind of nerdy world. I've always had this celestial wonder. Ever since I was a kid, I always looked up to the stars and was like, whoa, this is so weird that we're just floating right now. And we have these weird, I don't know, kind of wondrous moments. But then last year, we were in lockdown.

Everyone was just going crazy. The whole George Floyd thing ignited this whole thing for like, literally everyone on planet Earth. That's when I started like looking even further out and like more into the universe. Like, why is there so much suffering? Like even at the most basic state, if you think about the animal kingdom, in order to survive, we have to consume, right? And like, with life, there's death. And I started like questioning all these things and like, kind of ignited this whole storyline that I really wanted to talk about. And so I wasn't like thinking, everyone talks about heartbreak or something like that, because there is a little bit of that in there. But I do have a hard hard time though talking about like romance or I don't know I get really embarrassed I don't know I wish I did I'm like I guess I'm such a shy girl

when it comes to like sometimes I like feel like I don't want to be like that person who's like gushing over a guy or something like it's so weird I find it so dumb because it's like we all do it like I should just be fine to like sing. But for me, like I was more nervous putting out connects out. Cause it dealt with love and falling in love and finding love again. And like, then I was putting out the first EP three 33 AM.

Cause for me, it's like, I was really excited to share that, that brief with people. Cause then I could find people that have also gone through it and like, we can connect together. And then whereas like, I don't know with Connect Style I was like a little nervous I was like oh I'm telling people about my love life I don't know it felt weird to me so I think I try to tap into that on the album but you know in my own way there's still a little

heartbreak but I just do it in a way that's a little more subtle. Would you say then it's so interesting what you're saying about you know the questioning and I think this last year has called a lot of people to start questioning the systems that govern us and dig a little deeper yeah and be more curious as to the why and what's actually underneath and a lot of us are kind of quite disturbed with what we're finding yeah or frustrated with what we're not yeah but what I am noticing with a lot of people that I speak to is that we're kind of eventually coming around to having to look within and trust ourselves and what we're capable of and that can be quite an empowering thing because you're like

okay I cannot control these things I cannot change all these things that I wish I could but I can start with me and what way can I show up individually and I think it's a wonderful takeaway for our listeners it's like you know through you having that experience and questioning those things you cathartically expressed it in music which may not in a sort of linear sense be an obvious answer to the situation that we find ourselves in but it does have a vibrational impact that then has this you know effect on everyone that's receiving listening to your music yeah I think that's so true what you said about really looking within and that was such a huge part of this as well because like i started looking at the universe and stuff like that and like kind of like a scientific way and like trying to understand what a lot of

like scientists and quantum physicists theorize all these things and like gave me this whole like look on like wow like people always put science and spirituality on like opposite ends of the spectrum really like they feel so similar to me and like they're really describing the same thing except expressing it in a different way and in doing so like it really kind of like made me realize wow like this whole universe there could be like a universe within me like we don't know any of these things but like the feeling of like searching it kind of made me more spiritual almost like it made me more scientific you became more scientific I became the more like I wanted to meditate again. Like my mom always used to want me to meditate when I was a kid. And I was like, I'm not going to do that. I was like 10 years old. I'm like hanging out with the monks. Like

I'm not like trying to meditate. I'm like, no, thank you. But, but I know sometimes I would do it on occasion, but it actually made me feel more connected. It doesn't have to be like God or whatever, whatever God is, but it made me feel more connected to that have to be like god or whatever whatever god is but it made me feel more connected to that energy or that feeling like and like wanted to kind of search within more and wanted to really like kind of find this feeling of like content within and stuff like that and again like like worth it that song like kind of one of those songs that i wrote as like a mantra to myself to like help me in those situations, like especially when I'm going into a studio or something like that to kind of like give me that like inner strength.

It was almost like an affirmation that I wrote to myself or to anyone, those feelings of insecurity and stuff like that. And that song was the outcome of like trying to like sit with myself and really understand these feelings and like how to just go about inner turmoil. And like, I think once you like figure out those things, it's like easier for you as an individual to like help other people get there. Or like when I went through the breakup, it was like, I was so afraid of being alone, alone you know like that i like stayed in the relationship because i was afraid of being on my own and so once i did that it like made me realize like okay like how can i like be happy with people if i can't sit with myself and like laugh at

something do you know what i mean so that was like kind of a little eye-opening experience for me as well yeah so the album kind of just dives into those things but again it's like you don't need to know hopefully the the music you'll connect with it in a way that makes you feel those things but it's not necessary to know all of these things well it's like what I said it doesn't have to be on a conscious level it just connects with people because I think it is such a powerful thing to be able to to sit in our own comfort and discomfort you know and that's something that's not taught and I think we often stay in things that have far outdated their sell-by because of that fear and that societal pressure as well but I find for me you, what you were discussing or exploring about grasping the sort of cosmos and the universe, it's like that is my meditation.

And I don't do it as often as I should, especially living in a city like London where you can't see the stars. It's the same as New York. But when I do have those moments and I saw it for me, it's like grasping my insignificance. Yeah, really. It's so humbling. It is. It's really humbling. It takes me out of myself. And it's like a fleeting moment and suddenly I'm like...

Yeah, yeah, totally. It really does feel like that. And it's a very humbling moment. It reminds me of this quote that Carl Sagan said. Carl Sagan is like this physicist from like the 70s, 80s. And essentially it's this whole visual from his TV show called the cosmos, which they've redone with Neil deGrasse Tyson. But essentially he talks about like, you see it and it's like this visual portrayal of like bird's eye view, um, leaving planet earth and just like how far away

and like how far it goes out. And then all of a sudden earth, he ends it with saying like how, when you go further out, you see how small it is and like how it's so insane that we get so caught up in like these like racial wars and just whatever. And like, if you were to just take a look or like be on a different star and like see planet earth or whatever, like you would realize, wow, how connected we all are and how, like how much stronger we all are together and how like none of those issues are like significant at all.

And so it is very humbling to like think about those things and to like look up and be like, wow, like we're just, we're ants. Yeah. Flying around on a piece of dust in space. I was like, the universe itself could just be like a speck of dust. We don't even know any of this. I know, it's crazy. But I'm curious as well, you said the more you delved into the science aspects of things the more spiritual you became can you expand on that a little bit because I obviously you know running an astrology podcast

a lot of people kind of roll their eyes and it gets that new age woo woo kind of reputation I'm like but astronomy people don't knock no but also exactly don't and also because I feel like there is such a huge connection between those. Like if you think about it, so it's like, I mean, people who like roll their eyes at astrology, I'm just like none of us really know. And like, it's kind of crazy. I like sometimes I'll read things and you're like, yes, that's exactly. That's me. Like, you know, so, you know,

with those things you can never really knock, especially I think astrology and astronomy do go hand in hand. They do. They absolutely do. And historically they did. never really not especially i think astrology and astronomy do go hand in hand they do they they absolutely do and historically they did it was just they kind of separated yeah at a point in time and and then one became a you know yeah also totally and i think the same time that you're thinking about science like people that were like philosophers that were scientists and stuff like that it was a very spiritual thing till you know newton like alchemy was involved in science and it was like it was this like almost magic so for me i always used to be one of those people that did separate you know if you believe

in science you don't believe in god and whatnot and then i started really going into it and like actually a lot of physicists that I've read about or listened to like interviews of and stuff like that this guy Mikio Kaku who's like this Japanese physicist he is like a very heavy believer of God and the correlation of um between like science and quantum physics in particular to like spiritualities even in hinduism and just like all those different types of religion you can really see this like correlation of like this celestial wonder especially in hinduism in my opinion like you look at shiva and on his finger he's got a galaxy that he's just like spiraling himself when i started looking at like physics and stuff like that you start to see oh

wow there are all these connections and stuff like that some start to see oh wow there are all these connections and stuff like that some of it gets like really metaphysical and like weird and like out there and you're kind of like whoa that's like like how uh semantics and stuff like that which is like essentially the vibrations that sound creates and how it creates these symbols like if you look it up online there's like these metal plates that people use and like sand. And they put it onto metal plates and they'll just direct certain frequencies. So it'll just be like a one note. And they'll create these crazy symbols on these metal plates and stuff like that.

And people have like kind of taken that. It's like sacred geometry. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. That's like some weird meta stuff right there. Like I not saying like okay this is the answer it's just like interesting to like see this correlation between looking at these like symbols that like sound and vibration makes and correlating it to all these like different types of symbols and patterns that are used within like religion it It's kind of interesting. I don't know if it's accurate, but I mean, for me,

like connecting those things was like, whoa, okay, this is really cool. Like I do feel like there is like some other worldly entities or energy, like making this all happen. You know what I mean? Like, because if you look at science, they have the math to describe these higher dimensional fields. Like we have a math, they know it exists. We just can't visualize it. We can't see it. And there's some really cool, I won't go into details with that stuff either. Cause it's like, I'm the worst at explaining it. Like there's so many YouTube videos where you see like Carl Sagan or Neil deGrasse Tyson, like explaining the different dimensional fields up

to the one that we perceive, which is the third dimension. And then you can include the fourth dimension as like being time essentially, but they'd like talk about how, if there was a two dimensional being and like us being the third dimensional being, like looking down into a two dimensional plane, like we would be able to understand, oh, these are just two dimensional beings, but. But we wouldn't be able to comprehend higher dimensions like the way that they're meant to be. But it's one of those things where it just feels like, okay, you look at the science of things and what they're describing

and look into atoms and all of these things and just kind of talking about dark matter and all this stuff. It feels really mystical and spiritual to me. And then you're kind of like about like dark matter and all this stuff it feels really mystical and spiritual to me and then you're kind of like oh i see see like for me with hinduism and buddhism in particular like those religions really throw that type of like those celestial theories to me at least i i really see the connection between those and then that's what makes me feel like okay there is some sort of connection here like I understand my mom's like whole connection to Buddhism and stuff like that you know more yeah because I was going

to say what is do you sort of have a particular religion or spiritual practice that you connect to no I don't I mean like I I was raised Tibetan Buddhist because that's what my mom was. You know, she would do it. She's German. She's not, she's not Tibetan. She's not Indian or anything like that. Everyone's like, oh, you're, you're half Indian. I'm like, no, she just loved it. way. So that's kind of what I think I know the most and I connect to the most because of that. And I think it also allows me to feel connected to my mom because she would do this traditional Tibetan artwork when I like meditate and stuff like that's where I go to like spirituality and like I visualize those deities and stuff like that. So I would say in the closest, that would be the closest religion or spirituality that I'm connected to. But again, like my godmother, who is like my, she's like my second mom, like she's Christian, she goes to church every Sunday. And so like, sometimes she wants me to go with her, like, like, I'm not really into that religion. But even going into the church, like, I went to the church with her like a few weeks ago. And for me, I'm just like wowed by like the interior of the church. And like, then I started thinking about like the sacred geometry thing and like trying to see, oh, like, wow, like you really do see like these patterns. And like, there's a connection there. And so like, I'm like trying to like Da Vinci code.

That's my religion, I guess guess i don't know i just i i take little things from different spiritualities and religions and kind of create my own and i think at the end of the day it's like religion at its most basic form like obviously there's been so much of religion that it's been abused you know obviously but if you think about religion and like its basic state and like spirituality and all that stuff like it's really just about tapping into that field or that energy and so I don't have one in particular but I appreciate all of them I think that's amazing um and before I let you go I just want to ask a little bit about numerology is that something that you're interesting because obviously yeah I mean are we going to dive into that

you've got the right audience for it don't worry um well yeah I mean I'm not like into it where I've like done research and like based certain life decisions on it or anything like that. I don't do that, but I'm definitely intrigued by it. I think numbers, math in general, like is such a huge part. Like again, think about geometry and stuff like that. Like it's such a huge part of life and matter and all of that stuff. So I think for me, like three was such a big number for me, like as a kid, it was always my favorite number. And then because my mom was born in 1953, my brother was

born in 1983 and I was born in 1993 and it was the three of us. That was why it was big for me then. And then I got older, like my mom passed away on June 3rd of 2013 at 10, 23 PM. So that was like, okay, that was a little interesting for me there. And then I don't know if it was like, I started just like thinking about it a lot and seeing it because of that. But there was definitely a very intense few weeks after my mom had passed where I was writing these songs. And it was at the point where I knew that I was making a project

and I was writing some of these songs and I would write later in the evening because I was very nervous. I didn't want anyone to hear me in my apartment. So I would do it later at night. People were sleeping then I would just go into the zone of like production and writing. And then like all of a sudden, like I would like tap out and be like whoa like it's probably really late like I need to go to bed like I have to be an adult tomorrow morning and like go to work and stuff like that every time that would happen for like three or four weeks straight it would be 3 33 a.m and I was like this is it wasn't even like it was so random and at first I was like that's not doing anything like have you looked into what it means? I think I did once when I was coming up with 3.33 a.m.

And I don't really remember what it was. No, it's interesting because actually some other people that I've spoken to who have had like a similar experience has also been with the number three. Wait, what does it mean? Do you know what it means? I don't know. I want to look it up too. I'm definitely going to look into it. But definitely, but definitely i mean that stuff like that really hit me that's

why i named 3 33 a.m was like and then also of course my initials are a.m so i was like but three was it doesn't happen to me as much now like now i feel like this weird i keep seeing this this is gonna sound even weirder now now i keep seeing like this weird blue dot like keeps appearing i don't know what it is but it's like every time i like close my eyes before i go to bed see it it's like you know you know those like fuzzy things you see floating when you like look at the sky or something and like they fall and every time you like try to focus on it it moves right so it's like one of those things where like for like the past month i keep just seeing this like blue dot before i go to bed or if i close my eyes or like sometimes like i'll do something and it'll like appear for a second i'm like is this a sign like am i on the

right path right now i mean i don't know i could have a medical issue and like need to go to the doctor I was gonna say I was like maybe you should get that checked out I've tried to like figure it out I'm like it's one of those small things it actually hasn't been that prominent recently I think it was again I think psychologically you kind of play with yourself a little bit yeah and then you start looking for it you know totally well I kind of think we've covered all sorts of grounds so it's really fascinating to speak to you and hear all this stuff because there's obviously you're a big thinker oh thank you it's good to talk to somebody who's like interested and doesn't think I'm like psycho no I literally I'm like oh you're really speaking my language okay good I'm

gonna I'm definitely gonna be going down like a YouTube rabbit hole. Okay, yeah, yeah. I'll send you some stuff for sure. Please do. I would love that. But it's been such a pleasure to speak to you. Yeah, it's been such a pleasure talking to you too. Thank you for having me.

And I wish you all the luck with the album. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming on the podcast. I love what Amber had to say about the strength she has when facing labels and managers and knowing her direction knowing her sound knowing who she is as an artist which I think can be such a challenging thing to negotiate when more people kind of come into the picture it's really interesting from the outside as someone that views her as very confident and very self-assured how

she still experiences anxiety and self-doubt in sessions. And I think that that's something we all struggle with, that kind of self-doubt piece. What really resonated for me after listening back to this conversation is what contribution we can make to the world. Understanding Amber's process, her thoughts, her desire for goodness, pierces through to the listener. It might not be obvious, it's process, her thoughts, her desire for goodness, pierces through to the listener. It might not be obvious, it's subtle, but that is the beauty of art and creativity,

and that's why I believe it is so needed today. You can find more of Amber's music on Spotify at Amber Mark, or visit her website at ambermarkmusic.com. And check out her song monsoon because you know i'm listening to it now with a whole new meaning and perspective after this conversation if you enjoyed this episode i would love it if you could follow the show and leave us a review on apple podcasts many of you have and it's so nice to read the comments and what you guys have to say about the show so please do take a moment to do so it means a lot to me and it helps us get

discovered by more like-minded people. Thank you so much for listening and remember you are not alone. Goodbye.